Order of Man - When to Limit Transparency, False Summits, and Toxic Work Environments

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.420 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.200 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Mr. Kip Sorensen, what's up, brother? It's so great to have you

00:00:27.480 back after what seems like, I don't know, a month or something of not having you, but it's probably

00:00:31.560 only been a week or two. Maybe it's just been a week. I don't know. I'm having withdrawals from

00:00:35.080 Kip. Two weeks. Two weeks. That's two weeks out. Two weeks. All right. Seems longer, brother. Seems

00:00:40.660 longer. Glad to have you back. We had some good fill-ins. Sean filled in, always does a wonderful

00:00:44.760 job. And then last week, Steve filled in and got a lot of good feedback on Steve as well.

00:00:50.300 Yeah, both did great. I figured I better get back before I get replaced.

00:00:54.280 Yeah. You better get back and you better start stepping up your game. Two things that you need

00:00:59.840 to work on. Absolutely. Absolutely. Competition. These guys are awesome. And I want to say too,

00:01:06.260 I'm really grateful that we just have guys who want to be part of this. They want to be involved.

00:01:12.360 They want to help share their knowledge, their expertise, their experience. And I think that's

00:01:17.540 a testament to the mission of Order of Man, which is, let me back up and say it this way. There's

00:01:24.120 a lot of men's movements out there that revolve around a central figurehead, like the sun and the

00:01:30.480 planets orbiting the sun. And the problem with that is that we as men are flawed and I am flawed and I

00:01:40.560 mess up. And a lot of you guys are familiar with my own several large mistakes that I've made over the

00:01:46.860 past several years. If you base a movement around a person with the exception of Jesus Christ,

00:01:55.280 it's going to fail because we're flawed. We're imperfect. But if you base the movement around

00:02:01.900 an idea, something that stands the test of time, that's an eternal principle that is true regardless

00:02:07.840 of who is sharing it and how they're delivering that message, I think it has an opportunity to stand

00:02:13.340 on its own legs, regardless of what the leader or the founder or the figurehead or the front facing

00:02:21.680 person of the movement might do or be or whatever. So I'm so grateful. And I think one of the things

00:02:29.480 that we did really right here is that we made this about the movement and the men, not about me or

00:02:35.380 anybody else in the organization. And I think that was a really good move in looking back.

00:02:40.800 And I think that's a good move we made. So I'm glad we did that.

00:02:45.700 Absolutely. We have so many men in the Iron Council willing to serve, step up in very serious ways

00:02:53.720 for no other reason other than they're bought into the importance and they've realized the impact of

00:03:02.820 what we're doing and the objective of what we're trying to accomplish. And that in itself is so

00:03:10.440 powerful. So, so powerful. I love it, brother.

00:03:14.440 Kip, I was thinking one thing that I wanted to hear what you thought about this. I haven't run this

00:03:19.540 past you, so I thought we'd just do it here on the podcast. I think it'd be fun to do like a headline

00:03:24.260 segment where we pull a couple of headlines. Maybe you pull one headline from, you know, culture and

00:03:30.260 I'll pull a headline every single week and it could be something funny or insane. It could be

00:03:34.920 something serious. It could be political or in the entertainment industry or whatever. But every

00:03:40.780 week you'd pull a headline and you'd share it with me and I'd give you my thoughts and vice versa. And

00:03:45.500 then I'd share my headline with you. You'd give me your thoughts and vice versa. And then we can get

00:03:49.400 into the questions. I think that might add an interesting cultural dynamic. And I think that's

00:03:54.020 important because the conversations that we're having are not just amongst ourselves and they

00:04:00.640 don't just impact ourselves. They impact culture. I see a lot of men complaining about things that

00:04:07.500 they see that are going wrong in society. And I agree with a lot of what they're upset about. So let's

00:04:12.680 start having these conversations. Let's start talking about it and hash these things out and then figure

00:04:19.620 out a way where we can actually move forward and what we can do. An example of that is I made a post

00:04:24.920 earlier in the week, last week rather, about, I said something to the effect of if you're a girl dad,

00:04:31.980 you know, you hear that term a lot, girl dads, girl dad power, all that kind of stuff. If you're a girl dad

00:04:37.360 and you sit on the sidelines as your daughter is physically abused by a boy pretending to be a girl,

00:04:46.600 you're pathetic. That's what I said. Yeah. And I had an overwhelmingly supportive comments on that,

00:04:52.680 that agreed with that. But I wonder how many of those men would actually do anything. And then I

00:04:58.060 had a few detractors like, Oh, well, you know, how could you be so bigoted and shut up, just shut up.

00:05:04.660 I'm so tired of you bitching and moaning and crying and whining about something that is horrific

00:05:11.860 to see a man participate with women, especially in physically combative type sports where there's

00:05:21.500 physicality associated with it. And I'm sick of those men having the voices. And a lot of guys are

00:05:30.060 like, well, what do we do? I don't know. What you do is you boycott, you stop playing and you get all

00:05:35.900 the other dads, the quote unquote, proud girl dads to stop participating, stop having their daughters

00:05:43.520 participate. And then alternatively, you go create new leagues that ban boys from playing with your

00:05:50.560 daughters. And I had one guy that I really respect, by the way. And he said, well, you know, Ryan,

00:05:55.060 then they'll lose their scholarships and it's really hard. Lose their scholarships.

00:05:59.400 They're losing it anyway, to the guys that are competing against them.

00:06:02.640 Exactly. The people, the, the, the awards and the accolades and the notoriety and the

00:06:08.420 scholarships, they're going to lose those things anyways, to your point. And the other thing is,

00:06:12.200 you know, a hundred years ago or 200 years ago or a thousand years ago, men standing up for what was

00:06:18.020 right. Wasn't really about losing scholarships. You know what it was about losing their wives and

00:06:24.360 daughters to be raped and subjugated and enslaved and their men imprisoned and put to work

00:06:32.020 and murdered and sacrificed, losing their country, losing their culture. And we're complaining that

00:06:39.600 our daughter might lose her scholarship. Yeah. Guys, if enough of us start talking about these

00:06:46.080 issues and more importantly, start having the real conversations that need to be had about what we

00:06:51.340 ought to do about it, then this bullshit doesn't fly anymore. If there's a team of 10 women and eight

00:06:57.480 of them won't compete because other men are participating in the league, how long does that

00:07:01.740 happen? And you know what else happens? All the other schools and all the other towns that see

00:07:06.880 that there was finally a town that decided to stand up because they had eight to 10 strong, virtuous,

00:07:12.460 righteous, capable men will start doing the same thing. This house of cards will fold, but not if we

00:07:18.280 just sit around and complain and cry and say, oh, they won't get their scholarships. So go, okay.

00:07:23.140 So what the alternative is to go watch your daughter get beat up by a guy that six, four, 220 pounds

00:07:29.340 and couldn't hack it in the men's league. We need to have these conversations guys. I'm, I'm fed up with

00:07:35.800 it. I want to have the conversations and I want to drive and compel us to take more action in our

00:07:40.600 communities. Yeah. I love that, man. I can't help, but think we, we often justify these things because

00:07:48.280 we jump to the conclusion of what would happen versus just simply asking ourselves, is it right?

00:07:57.520 That's it. What, what is right is right. And, and the outcomes and the circumstances shouldn't be the

00:08:04.220 determining factor sometimes when it comes to doing the honorable, correct thing. That's it. And it's the

00:08:11.320 internal dialogue and all that noise that we add to, well, stop it. Is it right? Yes or no. And if

00:08:19.360 it's no, then don't do it. If it's right, then do it. And when you stop playing the, the mind F that we

00:08:25.320 have with ourselves around justifying, not doing things because the consequences will be a certain

00:08:30.360 way or vice versa. It's silly. And there's no honor in that. There's absolutely no honor in it. And the

00:08:36.700 grand scheme of things too, right? Like you even use the example of scholarships, like, oh, they lose

00:08:42.660 a scholarship. Well, what's the benefit of standing up for something difficult? What's the benefit for

00:08:49.780 your daughter to see that in you? You don't think that impacts her and probably a more moral way than

00:08:58.620 a scholarship, man, us showing up powerfully is probably the most impactful thing that we could do

00:09:06.100 for our families. Thus, it shouldn't be the last thing that we consider based upon other consequences.

00:09:12.260 Right. That we can get into a rabbit hole on whether or not the scholarship is worth a damn

00:09:16.660 anyways, but we'll save that one for a different conversation. Yeah. Unless she's going to be a

00:09:21.480 doctor or a lawyer or a CPA. Yeah. Is, is that really worth it? Probably not. Anyways. Yeah. Soapbox.

00:09:30.060 But I think, I think that'd be fun. Like, like I said, we can do some lighthearted ones,

00:09:34.620 you know, like the Florida man type headlines where you see this guy who, you know, jumped in

00:09:39.620 the, in the, in the bayou with an alligator and, you know, got his leg chopped off, but, you know,

00:09:44.080 strangled the alligator versus some stuff like this, but we, we, we can do some, we can do some fun

00:09:49.620 things. So I think that'd be a cool addition. I like it. Well, and to your point, what I really

00:09:53.620 like about it is these are things that guys are thinking about anyway. Right. And so this allows

00:09:59.140 the conversation to be maybe applicable to whatever pressing issues and or events that

00:10:04.320 might be going on. So that sounds fun. Yeah. Cool. Okay. We'll do it. We'll start next week.

00:10:09.680 So your assignment is one headline. I'll bring one headline and we'll get after it. All right,

00:10:12.960 let's get into questions today. Yeah. So we're going to field questions first from the iron council

00:10:17.420 to learn more about the IC go to order of man.com slash iron council. We're going to be opening up

00:10:22.000 membership to the iron council in the 15th of March. So you have a couple of weeks to get ready

00:10:29.240 and sign up. So once again, that's order of man.com slash iron council. First question, Dalton Brown in

00:10:36.280 the, when shit hits the fan situation, what is the top three things to be prepared for?

00:10:42.780 I like that. I think Reese came in. He's like, by the way, S H T F means, you know, shit hits the bank

00:10:49.440 Reese. Yeah. Appreciate that. Although it did take me a second. I was like, okay. It took me a second

00:10:55.460 to mostly, cause I like to swear a little bit. I try not to, but I do like to swear. So I'd just

00:11:03.580 rather say the full thing, but what are the three things to be aware of? Is that what he asked?

00:11:08.700 Yeah. Top three things to be prepared for when things are prepared for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So

00:11:15.780 he, okay. So I have three things and they're kind of like the softer sides of things, but number one

00:11:21.580 is expect and be prepared for chaos. It's going to be a lot harder. That's going to be a lot more

00:11:27.980 chaotic. People are going to be confused. People aren't going to know what to do. There's a lot of

00:11:34.700 chaos in these types of moments. So that's number one. Number two, expect emotionally driven responses.

00:11:42.240 People are going to be very emotional. They're going to be upset depending on the situation could

00:11:47.660 be one of the most horrific and tragic days of their lives. Uh, they're, they're confused. They're

00:11:53.040 worried about the future and what might happen. And, and then again, that's a scale, right? It's,

00:11:58.400 it's a spectrum. It might be something as, as small as, you know, their boss yelled at them at work

00:12:03.500 and, and they're confused and frustrated and upset about it versus active shooter situation.

00:12:09.420 And there's a lot of emotions and fear running around that, but it doesn't matter. It's all

00:12:13.540 going to, going to manifest itself as emotionally driven responses. Uh, and then the third I would

00:12:19.080 say is ego. Uh, you're going to let your ego get in the way. You're, you're going to think that you

00:12:25.500 have it all figured out. You're going to feel threatened. You're going to want to posture and

00:12:30.920 defend. And that isn't always the best thing to do in situations like that. So if those are the three

00:12:40.480 things, again, chaos, emotionally driven responses by other people and yourself and allowing your ego

00:12:46.180 to get in the way, the best thing that you can do is to maintain a level head. Yeah. Be as calm,

00:12:54.820 cool, and collected as you possibly can be. And I'm not saying don't feel emotion. I'm not saying

00:12:58.880 don't feel fear. I'm not saying, you know, don't have those thoughts. Those thoughts are actually

00:13:03.800 going to manifest themselves, of course, but you are a man. And as a man, it's your duty in those,

00:13:10.840 in those response, in those situations to be the foundation, to be the rock, the bedrock that

00:13:18.100 everybody else can lean on. So you're not going to cry. You're not going to break down. You're not

00:13:24.680 going to react emotionally. You're not going to yell at people. You're not going to let your emotions

00:13:28.820 get in the way when somebody else might have a, or excuse me, your ego get in the way when somebody

00:13:32.560 else might have a better answer. And it, it, it doesn't make you feel as good because you're the

00:13:37.820 quote unquote, you know, self-designated leader. Somebody else might have a better solution.

00:13:42.680 Get the ego out of the way. Like the goal is to get your people through the circumstances in the best

00:13:48.840 way possible. And you know, on this sign right here, this sign right here, it says, protect,

00:13:55.020 provide, preside, preside is synonymous with leadership. It's your job as a man to lead

00:14:01.340 those people in those difficult and challenging times. So that means you need to anticipate what

00:14:06.700 might happen. You need to prepare for what might happen. And then when those situations come up,

00:14:11.760 you've mitigated some of the risk, but you're also the man that everybody knows that they can go to

00:14:16.360 because he's calm, cool, and collected. If we're going to take, like, uh, we talk about jujitsu a lot,

00:14:21.060 right. And I've gone back to training. I'm loving it. And, uh, I was rolling with the other night

00:14:26.220 with this white belt and he was strong. He's big and strong. And I saw him, he's this big, strong

00:14:30.140 young man. I'm like, and I saw he was a white belt. I'm like, I actually want to roll with that

00:14:34.340 guy. And I was like, Hey man, what's your name? He told me his name. And I'm, and I'm like, how long

00:14:38.600 you've been training for? And he's like, Oh, like three or four months. And he's like, but I wrestled.

00:14:43.120 I'm like, Oh, come on. Okay. This is going to be fun.

00:14:45.740 You're like, Oh, look at the time. And we rolled and he was strong and good. He understood leverage.

00:14:58.360 And I mean, better than just somebody who'd never had any of that experience on any mats before,

00:15:03.200 but he was, he was chaotic. He was wild. And in those wild moments, he created space that I was

00:15:12.640 able to capitalize on. Not because I'm more athletically talented than him. No, he's

00:15:18.620 definitely more skilled and talented than I am. I've just been doing it longer. So I don't re I

00:15:24.060 don't respond to the chaos the same way that he does. He doesn't know what to do. And in those

00:15:29.740 moments, they're little moments of exploitation for me. Yeah. He makes a wrong move, escape. He makes

00:15:36.000 a wrong move, take his back, makes a wrong move, expose his neck or his arm, whatever it may be.

00:15:40.700 And then you jump on that opportunity and you exploit it. And that's what happens in real life.

00:15:44.600 You have people who have never familiarized yourself with hardship and then they expose

00:15:50.860 themselves and they get chaotic and they get frustrated and they get emotional and they break

00:15:55.000 down and then they lose whatever war they're waging. So the best way to overcome that is to be aware

00:16:03.920 that things are going to come up, anticipate what those might be, prepare for those things,

00:16:09.300 and then know your role when they happen. And your role is to be the, just the solid foundation

00:16:15.240 that everybody else can lean on. That is our job. Yeah. I love the thought process of always thinking

00:16:23.100 if I, if I can't handle my current circumstance from a cool collective mind,

00:16:30.640 then I'm not going to do well in these kinds of situations, right? If I, if I'm struggling with my

00:16:38.100 first world problems, what makes me think I'm going to deal with more difficult things? And, and I think

00:16:45.780 about that because it inspires me to go, Hey, it puts things in perspective, right? Kip, you got this.

00:16:53.660 This is easy, right? This is the easy stuff. And it kind of, cause I sometimes get in my own head

00:16:59.160 and I'll, I'll get mad in my current situations. I will lash out. I'll lose my ego or I won't check

00:17:05.280 my ego. Those things come up and they shouldn't in the grand scheme of things, right? Because of what

00:17:12.020 I'm dealing with isn't that difficult. And so I need to even rise up in the current circumstances.

00:17:16.380 So that way, when do, when things do get difficult, I'm ready for that. And I love the analogy of

00:17:21.560 jujitsu because, well, it's the perfect analogy of it, right? I had a train, I had a train on Friday.

00:17:28.840 Uh, we had just probably about 12 black belts. I'm the small one, right? So average weight, maybe

00:17:38.080 220, 240, just big boys, big boys. And, and, and I had moments of my soul breaking where I wanted to

00:17:51.740 give up. I, I, I just want to give up and, and my training partners, I didn't let myself give up

00:18:00.580 and they wouldn't let me rest. Does it make sense? And I, I remember pushing when there was no pushing

00:18:07.600 left in me, just still going hard, even though I'm like, I can't breathe. You know, so much that

00:18:13.140 when I got done with the role, I'm like, like trying to catch my breath, you know, like I've

00:18:18.960 been swimming and holding my breath forever. Right. And I'm, and I can't stop sweating. It was just

00:18:23.100 grueling train. And I, I remember leaving the gym thinking most people have no idea what that feels

00:18:33.020 like. They've never experienced such massive amount of despair. Yeah. Just despair. What's

00:18:41.260 your problem? Can't you just get up? Yeah. And it's, and cause I've never experienced it right.

00:18:46.380 Other than on the mats and people have no idea what it means to have your spirit broken,

00:18:51.500 you know, and, and some of these higher belts, that's what they do. That's that's the, that's

00:18:57.200 the game is I'm going to break your spirit first and then I'll submit you. Like, I want

00:19:03.740 you to give up and, and give it to me because of, of, of me breaking your soul. You know, that's

00:19:12.660 what this guy, Jason South does to me. My, he breaks my soul first and then he humiliates

00:19:17.680 me with the submission. Right. But most people never experience it. And so how do we expect

00:19:23.320 to deal with these difficult situations? If the worlds that we live in is so soft and we're

00:19:30.400 not challenging ourselves mentally by pushing the extra rep in the gym, by doing hard cardio,

00:19:36.560 by doing jujitsu, by doing these other things to really test ourselves and to get the reps of

00:19:43.880 mental fortitude. Yeah. I love it. A couple of, uh, MMA questions related, related here. Cause I like

00:19:53.180 talking about this stuff. Uh, first one, what is your soul crushing move? Like if you want to crush

00:19:59.800 somebody's soul, what is your, what do you go to? What's your go to? Yeah. So I, can I give you two?

00:20:04.940 So my no position, what is your one? Um, the one go for it. Cause once the submission,

00:20:12.680 what's your position? So the position, okay, go for it. Double under stack in, in a tournament,

00:20:18.620 especially with the gi where I can cross grip on the collar. I'll grab the back of the belt and I will

00:20:24.280 stack them on their neck and I'll drive my forehand right into their esophagus. And I just go and, and

00:20:32.640 guys will fight it and you can feel them move their legs out of the way. That's their, that's

00:20:37.040 their give up. They're like, just pass. They're just begging to be passed. Um, so that's, that's

00:20:44.160 probably, yeah, that's the move. The submission. I like a high mount, a high S mount. So I'll go

00:20:52.660 high. So the arms are up like this and I'm tight. Yeah. Both arms in or one arm in try like going for

00:21:00.400 the triangle from a mounted position. So I always go into mount across the chest. I never mount on

00:21:07.360 the hips. Right. So, so I, I'll gather the arms together and mount super high and then I'll S mount.

00:21:16.180 So I'm just almost triangling both arms sitting right on. And there's no, there's no strength once

00:21:22.480 their arms are up above their head. And so now it's like, I just grab an arm and shoulder lock it or

00:21:27.840 arm bar. It's just miserable. It's like, it's nice to hang out right there. Just smash.

00:21:36.180 So good. So good. I, uh, for me, the position I look, you're a black belt. So like you can get

00:21:43.500 into those positions. I don't ever want it to make it sound like I can do this, like

00:21:47.460 all the time against anybody else. Neither can I. Yeah. But the position I love where it's just

00:21:53.920 soul crushing is neon belly. Oh yeah. I love neon belly. Dude. I love it. You wrap up one of their

00:21:59.960 arms, you got their collar, you're digging your knee in their gut or their sternum, wherever you

00:22:04.060 want. And they just cannot escape. And it's hilarious. Um, but I've had that happen to me

00:22:09.020 plenty of times. Yeah. Um, the other, okay. So the other question is, have you ever pressure tapped?

00:22:15.680 Um, have I pressure tapped someone or I have, I tapped to pressure before? No. Have you been tapped

00:22:22.640 or like, have you tapped out to pressure? Yes. Yeah. Not recently. Oh man. I, right. I'm sure

00:22:29.200 that will happen, but I'm like, yeah, dude, I'm like, I will not. I had this guy I was rolling with

00:22:34.700 and he was so like, just heavy. He was big. He was heavy. He wasn't just sitting on me either. He's

00:22:40.180 being technical, but just so much pressure. And there was a few times where I'm like, I'm like,

00:22:45.040 no, you don't tap to pressure. You do not tap to pressure. Yeah. I don't anymore. Yeah. I don't

00:22:52.240 anymore. Like my egos, like I'm like, nah, like I'm okay. But, um, yeah. Our, one of our instructors

00:22:59.980 or professors at unified Johnny, he, uh, he has a knack for just making it miserable. And I, I remember

00:23:07.280 once I, I made the mistake. I had my arms out. He had me inside control and I was, I was swimming

00:23:13.220 an arm in across my chest and then he used my arm against my chest. Yeah. And I actually

00:23:22.060 thought maybe something might break. It was like super painful. And I'm like, and something

00:23:28.240 might break. And so I tapped, but with my arm in between our bodies, it made it like way

00:23:34.320 worse. Like my ribs were all getting contorted with my, with my forearm. I can't remember.

00:23:39.840 It might've been, uh, did Deco who showed me this and I can't remember what it was their

00:23:46.260 owner. I think it was actually when you're on top putting your fist, like a, like a hammer,

00:23:51.780 like a hammer fist on their sternum. Yeah. Or that's what it was. Yes. You're right.

00:23:56.100 That's what it was. Yep. That's what it was. That's dirty. That's exactly right. That's

00:24:02.820 super good. Yeah. Dirty. I like dirty. I like the dirty game. Um, one more jujitsu thing,

00:24:09.560 but it's in the context of this, um, Jocko, uh, with victory MMA over the weekend, I think

00:24:15.060 it was over the weekend or last week, they had a fire, um, at their, at victory and it

00:24:21.500 didn't burn the building, but they're, they're done. They're out, out of commission for months.

00:24:24.760 Yeah. It looked horrible. And I watched, yeah, it was rough. I watched Jocko's video where

00:24:29.760 he did a tour of the thing after, after the fact, man, you want to talk about calm, cool

00:24:34.240 and collected. That's his baby. You know, that's his business. That's not only his baby

00:24:38.200 and his business, it's his way of life. He wants to introduce people to that. And he

00:24:42.300 was there and he's like, Hey, look, this is what's happening. Thanks to the firefighters.

00:24:46.620 Thanks to everybody who helped save the building. No one got hurt. Yeah. Building was

00:24:49.960 no one got hurt. We're going to rebuild. We're going to go over here temporarily while

00:24:53.560 we really rebuild this. Talk about being calm, cool, and collected when shit hits the fan.

00:25:00.640 I mean, there's, if you guys haven't seen that, go watch that. Like that's just an example

00:25:05.100 in action that you ought to be aware of. Cause I really can't right off hand, think of a better

00:25:10.080 example than that, at least in, you know, the last couple of weeks here. So yeah. All right.

00:25:14.160 What's next. All right. Steven Ragger, what kind of filters do you use in your decision-making

00:25:19.860 process? If any, when asked to commit to anything in multiple ways, I use a filtering system. I took

00:25:25.480 this from the gap and gain as the business guru. I I'm assuming he meant to write. I was still

00:25:33.520 struggling from being overcommitted in multiple ways. This helped me dial it back and get focused

00:25:38.300 in. So now I'm making more imperfect progress. So I'll leave it as that. He kind of has a list of

00:25:46.340 all the things that he's doing, but I think the intent of the question is what's your filter,

00:25:50.420 right? When it comes to making decisions and it sounds a little bit around over committing and

00:25:55.580 what you say yes to versus no and whatnot. Yeah. So I like what he's talking about with the gap in

00:26:03.680 the game. I think that a couple of things here, there are people who are under committers and

00:26:08.360 people who are over committers. I've noticed that like by default, they just over commit and they

00:26:14.680 run themselves ragged and they can't do anything exceptionally well because they've got too much

00:26:18.660 going on. And their biggest challenge is making sure that their default goes from yes to no. They

00:26:24.980 need to change their default to no, but that's not everybody. Yeah. Because you also have under

00:26:29.840 committers. You have guys that are like, Oh, I can't do that. And they might not vocalize it this

00:26:33.880 way, but I'm scared. I can't do that. Or I have plans or what if this happens? Or those are also

00:26:39.900 the guys who like to overanalyze everything, the paralysis by analysis. And, and so those are

00:26:46.020 under committers and those guys might need to learn to say yes as a default, as opposed to say no.

00:26:52.280 So you really got to figure out which type of person you are. I personally am more of an over

00:26:57.060 committer. So I will take on everything. I want to be useful. I want to try new things. I want to

00:27:02.760 experiment. I want to make money. I want to have good friendships and good experiences. So I'll say yes

00:27:08.600 to everything. Yeah. I want it all. Absolutely. And I know that the only way to have it all is to

00:27:13.580 take action. And so I tend to over commit at times. So I like the gap in the game. But I think the

00:27:19.440 biggest thing for me, because I'm more of an intuitive person, I'm not the analyzer. I'm not

00:27:24.840 the person who's going to look at like, well, you know, if I do this relative to this, then this will

00:27:29.880 produce X, Y, and Z result. And that will produce this result. I don't typically do that. I'm pretty

00:27:35.000 intuitive. And a lot of you guys are as well. So for me, I intuitively know what I should say yes

00:27:40.760 to and what I should say no to. But for me, the best thing that I can do, because I am an over

00:27:45.840 committer and I am an intuitive decision maker, is to just give myself a little bit of margin.

00:27:52.060 Yeah. Just a little bit of space. Hey, I don't need to make that decision right now. So when somebody

00:27:59.280 asks me if I can do something or commit to something or come on a podcast or go on a vacation

00:28:04.800 or go on a trip or go on a hunt or do this thing or do that thing, I like to ask this question.

00:28:11.720 When do you need an answer by? Because I want to respect that individual. Now, I don't think I owe

00:28:16.840 everybody a response, by the way, especially strangers who reach out because I can get inundated

00:28:21.360 with just responding to people. And just because somebody reaches out, I don't feel like I owe them

00:28:25.700 a response. But if it's somebody in my circle that I feel like I own a response, if you reached out

00:28:31.680 Kip and you said, hey, can you do this thing? I'd say, hey, when do you need an answer by?

00:28:35.480 Yeah. And you might say, well, I'd really like to know by the end of the weekend.

00:28:39.720 Okay. Now what I can do is I can take the information that I have and I can make a decision

00:28:46.280 over a couple of days and I can let it marinate a little bit. Okay. What other obligations do I have?

00:28:52.100 Is that even something that I want to do? Does that sound fun? Does that sound engaging?

00:28:56.720 Yeah. And it might be no. And the other part of giving yourself some margin is that I can come up

00:29:03.400 with a way, because I think people who say no have a hard time, especially nice guys saying no,

00:29:08.180 but it gives you a way to frame the no. I'm not saying you should lie or make up an excuse,

00:29:14.060 but it gives you a way to frame that. Right. And it gives you a way to frame that.

00:29:19.700 Another question that I might ask is if, and I actually learned this, I think from you, Kip,

00:29:26.340 is if you were to say, hey, can you, can you help coach me, for example, on like some business stuff?

00:29:33.960 Let's just say you did said that. I might say, well, when do you need an answer by? And you'd say,

00:29:38.400 well, I need an answer by this weekend if possible. And the next question is, tell me what all that

00:29:45.080 entails to you. Like, what does that look like to you? And you might say, well, man, I'd really like

00:29:51.380 to just get on a call once a week outside of that, maybe just send you a couple of texts and okay.

00:29:57.560 All right, good. Now I know what you're expecting. But if I just say yes, you might think, hey, we're

00:30:04.060 going to, I want to talk to you every day, you know, at 9am, set a meeting Monday through Friday.

00:30:08.400 I'm not, nope, not doing that. So when you actually ask that question, what all does that entail?

00:30:17.100 Then I don't want to say you're pigeonholing, but you're, you're obligating the person, the asker

00:30:24.200 to manage the expectation. Yeah. So when you come to me and you say, hey, I'd just like to get together

00:30:31.640 every week. And maybe outside of that, a few call, a few texts per week. And so we meet once on

00:30:37.940 Wednesday for four weeks and your text is like every couple of days and then it's every day. And

00:30:42.900 then it's every couple hours. I can come back and say, hey, Kip, look, I know you have a lot of

00:30:47.580 questions and I appreciate that. But when I said yes to this, we had talked about a few texts per week

00:30:53.060 and one call per week, which I was happy to do based on my schedule. This has nothing to do with you

00:31:00.180 based on my schedule. I cannot commit to more than that. So if I would have known it was different,

00:31:06.160 I probably would have said no. So I either have to back out and I can't do this, or we have to go

00:31:11.340 back to our previous arrangement, which is what you communicated to me. Then it puts the responsibility

00:31:17.300 where it lies on the shoulders of the person asking for you to do something. So those two questions have

00:31:24.000 really, really been a lifesaver in addition to creating some margin so I can think about, is this

00:31:29.440 something I want to do? And if it's not, come up with a respectable answer to that individual.

00:31:36.520 Yeah. Ryan, do you mind sharing your thought process around when you choose to do a minimal,

00:31:45.840 viable product to something? Like for me, my natural tendency will be to look at the long-term

00:31:52.060 strategy and what this looks like and blah, blah, blah, to make my decision. But I don't think you're

00:31:57.220 that way. And I, and I love that about you. In fact, it's something that I've been trying to do

00:32:01.140 more often and we've talked about it, right? You don't know how to get to the peak until you

00:32:05.940 get over a ridge. And so you, you have it, you default go to action. What's your thought process

00:32:13.660 around that? Because one, you make a decision, but it's almost like you're also not dragging the

00:32:20.240 expectation of the long-term outcome. It's almost like you go into the decision like, yeah,

00:32:25.120 that sounds interesting. Let's give it a try, you know? And then what's the reassess process

00:32:31.780 and mindset kind of going into that? Uh, I think you alluded to it earlier. Here's what I would say

00:32:38.080 is detachment from the result. And you talked a little bit about that earlier when it came to the

00:32:43.960 doing the right or wrong thing, people will attach themselves to the result. Well, if I do the right

00:32:47.480 thing, what if this and this and this, that's irrelevant. Is it right or wrong? I don't know.

00:32:51.520 Yeah. The result doesn't matter. I mean, look, we need to be aware of the result because to go to

00:32:56.840 our second question, you need to be prepared for the fallout you're going to deal with, but it's

00:33:01.640 still irrelevant. Like right is right. Wrong is wrong. And so for me, when it comes to, well, let me

00:33:09.320 give you a prime example of this. So I'm putting together a men's, an annual men's conference this

00:33:15.720 year. It's going to be in the fall. It's just outside of St. Louis. I'll get you all the details,

00:33:19.280 guys. My goal, my long-term goal is to create the largest men's conference, physical men's

00:33:27.380 conference in the world. That's my goal to reach as many men as I possibly can in a physical

00:33:33.980 environment where we're meeting face-to-face. We're hearing from great speakers, exclusively men.

00:33:38.360 That's my goal. I'm not going to accomplish that this year. Now, if I do cool that great. I don't think

00:33:44.880 I will. So I'm going to be realistic about it, but I can start working towards it. So we've secured a

00:33:50.180 place to do this. It can hold up to 900 people. By the way, 900 isn't even my goal. My goal is to

00:33:56.060 have 500 people at this thing, which is five times what I've ever had before. So I'm still exceeding

00:34:03.780 what I've done in the past. I'm still striving for something great, but I'm giving myself some,

00:34:08.340 some leeway to grow. And if we hit 900, we got the space to do it. So by all means. Yeah. But my

00:34:15.080 default is always minimum viable product always because I'm not doing brain surgery. If this

00:34:21.660 doesn't work, I'm not going to kill somebody. That's it. That's like the only reason you wouldn't

00:34:27.320 do minimum viable product is if there's some catastrophic outcome to doing it any other way.

00:34:33.380 And 99.9% of the time it's not catastrophic. Yeah. But people think it is. It just means

00:34:40.380 you'll be out. They do. Yeah. But like, but so give me what somebody would think. Cause I can't

00:34:47.740 even fathom what it might be. What's if I'm putting together a men's conference, what would,

00:34:52.820 what could somebody possibly think that would be catastrophic about not a single person turning

00:34:58.460 up? Let's say, I think it's the worst possible outcome, by the way. I think it's the story,

00:35:02.740 right? It is. Ryan says, I'm going to do this big conference. I, I, I put it out there on the,

00:35:11.260 on the web. Everyone heard it on the podcast and the event comes and no one shows up. It's,

00:35:18.220 it's just ego. It's, it's what it, what it means about you. And, but people take that story

00:35:25.600 of what it might mean about you as like life and death, you know what I mean? And, and thus they

00:35:32.080 won't take action and all these other things because of, of the fear of what that would look,

00:35:37.480 make them look like.

00:35:38.720 Yeah. You're going to look dumb.

00:35:45.320 Okay. Who, who's going to know? Nobody came to your event. Nobody's going to know how dumb you look.

00:35:50.820 Yeah, that's true. But even if they did know, like it's part of the rep, right?

00:35:56.320 It is. And that's the thing. Imagine this, you go watch two professional football teams play. And

00:36:02.780 one team says, we're definitely, we're going to, we guarantee a victory. We're definitely going to

00:36:06.240 win this game. And then after the first quarter, you're like, you're down seven to zero. You guys

00:36:10.880 suck. See, I knew you couldn't win, bro. It's the first quarter. Give us a second.

00:36:16.980 Game's not over.

00:36:17.600 Yeah. We still got three quarters to play here. And then we can talk about, did I lose or did I

00:36:24.420 win? And by the way, if you still lost, so what? When I did my very first event, a lot of guys have

00:36:30.380 heard this story. I didn't have a, not a single person register. I think it's not one. I love it.

00:36:37.020 It's funny. You know what else it is though, Kip? It was stressful. Is it inspirational?

00:36:41.360 Yeah. No. Is it inspirational? Or is it like, do you think less of me? No. Do you think less of me?

00:36:48.760 No, absolutely not. Nobody thinks less of me because of it. Yeah. Even my divorce, you could

00:36:55.600 take that. That happened a year and a half ago. Oh, Ryan, he's a loser. He sucks at relationships.

00:37:04.140 He can't do the blah, blah, blah. All the little people chirping about it.

00:37:07.740 Right. And now, you know, you're, and I know we're not deep into this thing, but a year and a half

00:37:14.220 later, there's a lot of people who are like, oh man, you've handled this really well. Right. Cause

00:37:18.300 I'm 42 years old. The game isn't over yet. Yeah. Now I might've lost that, that battle.

00:37:27.740 I might've faltered and slipped and fell and made some mistakes in that chapter.

00:37:32.940 But if I lived a life expectancy, I have nearly 40 more years of my life. You're counting me out

00:37:40.160 before the game is over. It's not over for me. The only time the game is over is when the game is

00:37:47.400 over. Meaning you die. Yeah. And at death, then we can go ahead and we can tally and see the good

00:37:53.240 versus the bad and all that kind of stuff and decide, was this man an asset or a liability? I'm

00:37:57.420 going to be an asset. I know I am just because I had that thing go down. Doesn't mean that I'm a

00:38:03.020 liability for the rest of my life. We need to learn to detach ourselves from not only future

00:38:09.300 outcomes, but also past outcomes. And I'm not saying excuse yourself for your wrongdoings in

00:38:14.380 your past, embrace them, learn from them, and then sever it. Like sever that tie. Yep. I went through

00:38:22.400 a divorce, divorce. It's severed. Meaning I'm not going to wrap up my identity in that. That's

00:38:28.620 something that happened. That's true. There were some things that I did wrong. That's true. But that

00:38:35.020 is not me today. I'm completely different than I was a year and a half, two years ago, because I made

00:38:42.900 the decision to be that. And so minimum viable product always. Yes. Always a hundred percent.

00:38:50.080 I love it. I love the, I can't think of a time where game's not over yet. Right. I love that

00:38:56.240 game's not over. It's not over. So true. T-shirt next t-shirt. All right. I like that. Rob Thompson.

00:39:01.760 I do too. Um, is there a limit to how transparent, uh, you are with those you lead? Where does the

00:39:09.060 transparency begin to erode credibility if it does? Yes, of course there's a limit. Yeah. Of course

00:39:16.620 there's a limit. You know, I can't, for example, when I'm, Oh, I mean, if we'll go back to the

00:39:22.320 family dynamic, like I'm not going to disclose everything about the entire situation with my

00:39:30.620 ex-wife and I, with my children. Doesn't serve them. That sounds ridiculous. Yeah. That you just

00:39:38.080 said the answer right there. What is the point of being transparent? Okay. So here's what a lot of

00:39:44.060 people will do. They'll be transparent because they want people to tap them on the shoulder and

00:39:49.260 say, you're amazing. You're wonderful. You're good. Look how strong you are. You can do this.

00:39:54.400 I believe in you. And the motive is what can I get from this, from other people? Yeah.

00:40:03.120 Transparency and leadership should the motivating factor should always be, what are my people going

00:40:10.640 to get from this? So my job is to be as transparent as I need to be no more, no less to allow my people

00:40:20.700 a path forward. So when I'm talking with my children, if one of my kids gets bullied at school,

00:40:27.100 then I can share a story of when I got bullied at school or the first fight that I ever got in and I got

00:40:35.040 my butt handed to me, but I'm sharing that for relatability. I'm sharing that so that my child

00:40:41.880 knows that this is not, he's not the only, or she's not the only one who's ever gone through this

00:40:46.240 and you can rise above it and you can get better in spite of it and you can learn from it. And it's

00:40:52.360 the same thing with a professional organization or your wife or significant other or whoever it might

00:40:59.360 be. Transparent to the degree that it serves them, not you. If you ever start getting your rocks off

00:41:07.600 because people are telling you how wonderful you are because you shared about some horrible story in

00:41:11.920 the past, you know, your motive is faulty. You should not want to be transparent. Yeah. But you should

00:41:19.600 be transparent because that's what some people will need from you. And by the way, not everybody needs the

00:41:24.620 same level of transparency. Kip, the conversations you and I have are different than the conversations

00:41:30.520 I have with my girlfriend are different than the conversations I have with my kids are different

00:41:35.460 than the conversations I might have with somebody on the internet. They're different because our

00:41:40.680 relationships are different. Ours is different than my kids, than my girlfriends, than random strangers

00:41:44.960 on the internet. And so I treat it accordingly. But yeah, of course there's a limit. Do you think most

00:41:50.620 men struggle with too much transparency or not enough? Like where's the typical? Too little. Too little.

00:41:57.580 Too little. Yeah. Yeah. That's an ego driven thing. Right? So we're afraid to share our own

00:42:04.300 inadequacies. And so what will we do? Let's say a friend comes to you and says, man, Kip, man, my wife

00:42:12.300 and I are struggling. Um, man, she said she wanted a divorce and I don't really know what to do. Our default

00:42:18.740 as men is to be like, well, you know, in my marriage, we do this and this is how great it is

00:42:23.080 and everything else, except for you just got into an argument with your wife 24 hours earlier.

00:42:26.840 And she was telling me she wants to leave me.

00:42:29.720 Right. Why are you sharing that?

00:42:33.680 So what, what would be better would is to be, is to say, Hey, you know what? Oh man,

00:42:38.880 I know it. My wife and I just got into an argument last, last night. And she said,

00:42:44.920 she'd been thinking about divorce and we had a really good conversation. And she came to me this

00:42:49.860 morning and she said, you know, I was, I was rash and I, I was emotional. I don't really want a

00:42:54.180 divorce. I'm just, I'm having a hard time. And so we worked through it in a positive way. And this is

00:42:57.880 what we did. That's a great level of transparency. It's honest. It's serving the other individual

00:43:05.540 because you have their best interest in mind and it's not, you're not over-representing yourself.

00:43:12.580 Yeah. You're accurately representing who you are and what's worked for you and what hasn't. And I

00:43:17.460 think that's a much better way to lead, but our ego has a difficult time allowing us to do that.

00:43:23.020 Yeah, absolutely. Wayne McPherson, most men join the IC for brotherhood and or accountability. Yet some

00:43:31.960 don't join a team unless helped and encouraged to do so. Do you think this is more nurture society's

00:43:40.000 influence on men to be separated and less trusting of one another due to division or nature? Man's

00:43:47.340 tends to be a proud lone wolf, uncomfortable of reaching out to other men. I think it's the latter

00:43:54.000 more often than not. It's again, we look, the underlying theme for this conversation, Kip, has

00:44:00.180 been ego. Yeah. It's our ego. And I don't know that guys want to be a lone wolf. I don't know that

00:44:06.620 I think, I don't think so. I think we're getting the symptoms correct, but we're getting the

00:44:12.620 diagnosis wrong. Yeah. The symptoms are they don't join a team. The diagnosis is not because they want

00:44:18.980 to be lone wolves. It's because they don't want to expose themselves to other people and they don't

00:44:25.600 want to do the hard work required to improve. And if I, I can lie to myself really well, right? If I

00:44:33.760 don't go to the gym this morning, I can say, oh, well, you know, I, I was pretty active over the

00:44:37.400 weekend. Um, you know, I, I didn't get much sleep. Uh, I've got a busy day. My day starts early.

00:44:43.820 There's all sorts of things I can say, but if I ask you Kip to hold me accountable and we're

00:44:49.580 working together and, and I say, yeah, Kip, I was just tired. Like I had a long day. You'd say,

00:44:55.060 so what? I don't care. So you can get more sleep tonight. Then go to the gym. You said you're going

00:44:59.500 to go to the gym. You can catch up on your sleep tonight. Go to bed earlier. Why did that,

00:45:04.080 why is that the thing that got sacrificed? Yeah. That's way harder to deal with than me just

00:45:11.420 continuing to live in mediocrity with the excuses I make for myself. I know myself really well.

00:45:16.760 I know how to deceive myself very, very well because I know myself. And because I know myself,

00:45:24.080 I know what lies I tell myself and I have to be very vigilant against those things,

00:45:28.320 but it's harder to do with another person at times. Yeah. Cause they don't, they're not

00:45:32.700 emotionally wrapped up in your bullshit, right? Like I make that story and you're like, I don't care.

00:45:38.320 And you don't, you shouldn't. I don't care about you're tired. So what go to the gym,

00:45:44.380 get more sleep tonight. I don't care that you were active last weekend. You said you wanted to

00:45:49.340 be active every day. What is what you did yesterday have to do with today? That's what a true

00:45:53.880 accountability partner will do. And that's confrontation. A lot of guys don't like that.

00:45:58.220 I don't like that. Nobody likes that. No, it's difficult. I wonder too, how much of this has to do

00:46:04.320 with people don't want to have to ask, right? Like they, it's almost like a form of affirmation

00:46:14.740 that, that I got coached that I'm wanted versus I had to go ask to be on a team.

00:46:21.040 And there's an associated maybe as a result of low self-esteem. Do you think that plays a part at all?

00:46:28.060 I never really considered that honestly. I, I, because I don't feel that way.

00:46:31.840 Well, your self-esteem is enough for all of us. No, right. Yeah.

00:46:38.740 Fair.

00:46:45.100 That's good. That was really good. You're getting, you're getting clever, Kip. You're doing good.

00:46:49.220 Just speaking truth.

00:46:52.580 I can't even focus on what the question was now, but like,

00:46:56.360 I don't know. Is it wanting to be, are wanting to like, well, maybe they're not. Maybe they,

00:47:04.900 I just curious, like, do you guys feel like they're asking to be on a team versus being pulled into a

00:47:10.600 team? And there's a, there's a sense of being wanted that is present there. That's not present

00:47:17.540 in the other scenario. I don't know. Look, I don't think being wanted is, is a bad thing.

00:47:23.280 So if that's, if you'd rather approach it that way, then be a superstar. Yeah. And then you don't

00:47:29.500 have to go ask to be on a team because everybody will be coming to you. Like that's an easy solution.

00:47:34.540 Yeah. Like if that's really, if you really want to be asked to be part of things, then be as

00:47:39.980 valuable as you possibly can. And people will ask you like, that's an easy solution. Simple,

00:47:44.720 simple solution. Yeah. Huh? Interesting. I don't know. I don't, I don't think that's the issue.

00:47:50.100 No. Okay. It's a good question, but I could be wrong. Uh, there's a similar question. Well,

00:47:54.940 it, I, it's a good segue and it's from Eric Tyler on Facebook. And I, I really wanted to make sure

00:47:59.440 we covered it because I think it's such a great question. Um, if you don't mind, I'm going to

00:48:03.040 jump to the Facebook questions here. So Eric Tyler, let's get to it. How do I stop feeling lonely

00:48:08.640 and insecure because I've never dated before? I almost had a date, but I ended up getting

00:48:15.700 ghosted. I'm fixing to turn 25 and it's killing my self-esteem and confidence. Just really like,

00:48:23.280 Ooh, I like this. I know we need to help this brother out because this is legit. Right. And

00:48:27.820 I think a lot of people might be, can kind of relate to Eric here. Yeah. Well, the first

00:48:35.480 thing you need to realize is the premise of your question is way out in left field. You're,

00:48:41.300 you're wrong. And I say that with, with the love I have for you and you wanting to win.

00:48:46.800 You think by the nature of your question that being validated by a woman is what's going to give

00:48:53.640 you security and confidence. It's not, there's not enough women. There's not enough attractiveness.

00:48:59.460 There's not enough nakedness. There's not enough sex. There's not enough of any of that to make you

00:49:07.080 feel secure and confident with yourself. Because the moment you get a girl, if you're waiting for

00:49:12.020 her to validate you, you're going to want another one, a different one, one with bigger boobs,

00:49:17.600 one with a better face, one with a better body, one who does this, one who does that. And it's never

00:49:22.840 going to be enough for you. Never. So the premise is off. The question should be worded. How do I

00:49:32.620 build security and confidence in myself? You're worried about a woman validating you. She cannot.

00:49:41.140 I love women. She can't validate you. It might feel good for a while. Don't get me wrong. Having a

00:49:46.800 woman who want, who's attracted to you, like feels good, but it's empty at the end of the day. If you

00:49:52.560 can't make yourself feel good about who you are. So the question is, how do you make yourself

00:49:58.260 secure? How do you make yourself confident? And the way you do that is by winning the battle

00:50:03.960 with your integrity. I'd be willing to bet that you woke up this morning and you had a little bit

00:50:09.420 of an idea of how you wanted today to go. And so let me ask you, how is it going? Did you get up when

00:50:15.100 your alarm went off? Did you go work out first thing? Did you get into work with a to-do list already

00:50:21.480 created and you got going? Or did you get sucked down the rabbit hole of social media and distraction?

00:50:27.140 Were you productive at work? Did you make the calls you needed to make? Did you serve your employer and

00:50:33.440 your coworkers the way they needed to be served? Did you mow your neighbors lawn? Like, did you go make

00:50:38.720 yourself better this afternoon? Did you read scriptures if that's your thing? What promises did

00:50:43.440 you make to yourself? And have you kept them at this thing comes out at 5 a.m. every morning Eastern?

00:50:51.760 Where are you at? And how can you get back in integrity? What dreams do you have about your body,

00:50:59.100 about a business you want to start, about an adventure that you want to go on, about the way

00:51:03.940 that you want to show up and communicate and look and present yourself? And are your actions aligned

00:51:08.720 with that? If they're not, then again, no woman is going to do it for you for any sustainable period

00:51:14.840 of time. But here's the ironic thing and a little bit of cruelty in it as well. The more that you begin

00:51:21.840 to learn how to validate yourself and build confidence in yourself through building integrity,

00:51:28.520 women will be attracted to that. Employers will be attracted to that. Friends will be attracted to

00:51:34.900 that. A bosses, co-workers, colleagues will be attracted to that. And so you don't need their

00:51:42.280 validation anymore, but you'll have enough attention from women or from friends or employers or clients

00:51:49.960 that you'll never want again. But you can't focus it on externals. You have to focus on the internals.

00:51:57.680 You get that right? Everything else takes care of itself.

00:51:59.800 Spot on. Trust me. I had literally had this conversation with someone the other day,

00:52:07.900 a friend of mine, and they're talking about how lonely they are. Divorced, single parent,

00:52:15.480 and life's lonely and they can't quote unquote find love. And my response was something to the extent of,

00:52:24.460 and so are many people that are married. It doesn't make a difference, right? If you're low self-esteem,

00:52:33.100 if you're feeling lonely, be careful to get in the trap of thinking that's going to be valued by someone

00:52:39.700 like you're saying, Ryan. And most importantly, it's unfair to them. Can you imagine that?

00:52:46.740 Can you imagine someone choosing to be with you and whether they have self-esteem and confidence

00:52:52.160 and their feeling of loneliness is all based upon how you show up every day?

00:52:57.240 It's exhausting. And that will come with, not regret, what's the word I'm looking for?

00:53:05.640 They'll hold that against you. Even if they give it to you temporarily, they're going to despise you

00:53:13.680 eventually when you rely on someone like that in a relationship. So it's unfair to them too.

00:53:22.160 Well, there's a lot of manipulation that comes with it too, right? Like if I need validation from

00:53:26.100 a woman, I'm going to try to manipulate her into doing and saying things that are going to validate

00:53:30.500 me. Yeah. And nobody likes to be manipulated or controlled. And it's not true anyway, right? When

00:53:36.820 you get what you wanted through manipulation, it's not true. You know, it's just another form of a lie

00:53:42.420 that you're feeding yourself. It's now just through a conduit of someone else.

00:53:45.760 Yeah. Yeah. Good point. I wrote something down here, Kip, because you said the way you phrased

00:53:51.840 it was like, I want to find romance or I want to find love or you said something like that, right?

00:53:56.440 Yeah. And I wrote this, I think too often that when men say that, what they're actually saying

00:54:02.340 is I want to find somebody who will love me. Not, I want to find somebody who I can love.

00:54:10.340 Like think about the difference. And look, I know there's reciprocity, of course, relationship. You

00:54:14.940 should be loved. They should be loved. Everybody should be loved. But I'm saying if your motive is

00:54:18.760 I need to find somebody to love me, then you're like a puppy dog. Yeah. Right. I just want somebody

00:54:23.860 to love me. Pay attention to me. Well, and you'll find anybody to do that. And your sovereignty is

00:54:28.300 where, right? Right. Yeah. Good point. You've granted that power to someone else

00:54:34.120 versus, Hey, I want to find somebody to love, which to me means serve.

00:54:40.340 Yeah. I want to find somebody that I care about, that I admire, that I respect, that I can see

00:54:46.360 building a future with and somebody who I can serve. I can show up for them. I can be a sounding

00:54:51.820 board for them. I can, we can do adventures and trips together. I can, I can cook with them. I can,

00:54:57.960 like we can raise kids together. Like I want to, I want to serve somebody. Yeah. And, and by the way,

00:55:04.500 there's, there's a little bit of even selfishness in that too, which is okay because you get, I,

00:55:09.820 I derive a lot of satisfaction and value from being in service to other people.

00:55:13.500 Absolutely. Even in romantic, a romantic relationship. Yeah. So you can't make these

00:55:18.340 types of decisions in a vacuum where it's like, well, gosh, all I do is love on this person.

00:55:22.540 I don't get anything in return. Well, then maybe you're not doing it right. Cause when I love on

00:55:26.860 people, I get a lot of that in, in, in return, they may not reciprocate always the way that I want,

00:55:33.500 but it feels pretty good to know I'm capable, to know, I can serve other people, to know I'm

00:55:38.080 valuable. I, I just, it's a good thing. Yeah. It just works when you do it for those right

00:55:45.340 motives, not the inferior motives. When I, when I smash and try to hurt someone on the mats,

00:55:53.020 they just naturally want to give it back. It's, it's a, it's a principle of life.

00:55:57.880 Just a lot of reciprocity. That's how it works. Karma. What goes around, comes around both

00:56:03.580 negatively and positively. But even that camp, like, I know that again, we'll go back to jujitsu

00:56:12.340 here. Like you destroy me. Like, I don't really have a chance. Like there might be, I'm if, if ever

00:56:17.460 I catch you, it's because I caught you. Like I did something weird or you weren't paying attention

00:56:23.160 or you were experimenting and did something that you shouldn't have. That's the only time I'll be

00:56:27.760 able to catch you now. Give me five years. I'm going to put that out there. I trust me. I know

00:56:33.860 I'm on your list. Um, but also I know that you have a caring heart, even on the mats, which,

00:56:43.340 because I've seen it, like you'll be submitting me, but then you'll also be coaching me like at the

00:56:51.740 same time or after you might, you know, you might finish the submission, but then afterwards you're

00:56:56.420 like, Hey man, can I show you something? Like, yeah, well, you did this and then I did this and

00:57:00.280 you did this and then I did that. And that's how I got you. You wouldn't share that with me if you

00:57:04.740 didn't care, care about me. If you didn't want me to improve, of course. So you can be in those

00:57:11.280 environments. And I've said this before is not everybody who praises you is your ally and not

00:57:17.040 everybody who criticizes you is your enemy. Yeah. You know, if you have somebody who's close in your

00:57:24.140 corner and they're critiquing and giving you instructive feedback, it might not feel

00:57:29.120 comfortable. That's not your enemy. That guy's trying to help you like pay attention, use a

00:57:34.380 little discernment because that person is actually coming from a place of service and love for you.

00:57:40.020 Yeah. I like that. All right. A couple more or one more. What do you think?

00:57:44.740 Yeah. Let's, let's do two more. Let's do it on a rapid fire if we can.

00:57:47.500 All right. So we got, we got toxic workplace, juggling travel and rites of passage.

00:57:54.760 What do you want? I'll let you pick either any, any, any of them are fine.

00:57:58.960 Let's let's do toxic workplace. All right. Nicholas Wade. It's a phrase people like to throw out,

00:58:03.780 but what do you all consider signs of a toxic work environment? And when's the best time to make an

00:58:09.620 exit from a job that exhibits these things? Thank you for what you do.

00:58:13.460 I think toxic work environment is no structure, right? Everybody's just doing their own thing.

00:58:21.540 They're not working together as a team. No room for growth would be a big red flag for me. Like if

00:58:27.200 nobody's growing, there's no room for growth. Like what am I doing here? Another one might be that

00:58:33.080 people are not working to serve each other. They're actually undermining each other. Right? So like if

00:58:39.200 something doesn't go wrong, I'm going to throw you under the bus rather than support edify and uplift you.

00:58:43.460 So we can get the mission accomplished. Um, and then there's other, you know, things of course,

00:58:48.160 where it's, you know, gossip, uh, yelling, name calling, you know, that sort of behavioral type

00:58:55.240 stuff that I would take issue with. But I think those other things would be a pretty good indicator

00:59:00.120 that, that you're in a toxic work environment. As far as when is it time to move on when you feel

00:59:06.100 like you've done everything you can to improve the environment. Yeah. So if you've reached out to your

00:59:12.200 boss and you've not only complained about what's going on, but you've made recommendations, suggestions,

00:59:17.280 if you've tried to actively work with other people by helping them with their projects, giving them

00:59:24.480 tools and resources of your own, they can use to accomplish tasks. Um, taking the higher road when

00:59:30.160 somebody throws you under the bus or belittles you, or there's gossip going on, if there's gossip

00:59:34.900 going on and you might say something like, Hey, you know what guys, like, I'm not really interested

00:59:39.100 in having this conversation. I just, I want to keep my head down and go to work and make sure we get

00:59:43.020 this, this thing done. You know? So like I say, we avoid talking ill about that other person or

00:59:50.260 personal stuff. Like, let's get this stuff done. If you've done all of that, then it's time to move on.

00:59:56.340 The only other thing I would say with this question is we never want abrupt starts and stops.

01:00:02.680 And then this is particularly true in a business relationship or career. Like you don't want to

01:00:08.780 start then quit and then have to look for a job and then start and then quit and have to look for a

01:00:13.960 job. Those types of things should be seamless. So if I were to stop order of man today, like I've built

01:00:20.480 enough other relationships that I could have a dozen different opportunities lined up within a

01:00:25.920 24 hour window because I've been building relationships, not for the idea that I'm

01:00:31.040 going to stop order of man and do something different. But if it were to happen for one

01:00:34.560 reason or the other, I can seamlessly integrate and navigate into a new work environment. And so

01:00:41.060 as an employee, you should always know, and this goes to the first question about shit hitting the fan.

01:00:47.100 If you get laid off, you should have prepared for that. That's a risk that is always going to be

01:00:53.640 looming over your head as an employee. I'm not saying your employer is a dick. I'm not saying

01:00:58.100 he's looking to lay you off or fire you, but it is a potential risk. And if that's the case, you need

01:01:04.260 to be aware of it. You need to prepare for it. And everybody, I don't care if you're the person in the

01:01:09.740 back room doing the books to the person up front selling the thing. Every single person should be

01:01:15.220 building their network as a basic fundamental duty of their current job. Yeah. If you're not doing

01:01:23.400 that, you're going to find yourself in a hurting position when you do get laid off or the business

01:01:28.160 goes under, or you find yourself in a toxic work environment. Yeah. No, that's great advice, man.

01:01:33.720 I can't. I, it's ironic that we lose sight that most opportunities are always through someone,

01:01:40.720 right? So it makes sense, right? For us to be doing a good job networking and building our

01:01:49.320 relationships within other individuals. And we think it's the relationship between KIP and some tax ID

01:01:56.700 and logo. It's like, no. Right. The company doesn't employ you. Bob does, right? The other

01:02:04.440 people at companies, that's who's employing you, not some generic company. You don't work for Amazon.

01:02:10.360 You work for Jay at Amazon in the grand scheme of things. I don't even think you work for Jay at

01:02:16.300 Amazon. Yeah. I don't even think you work for Jay at Amazon. I think you work for everybody who's

01:02:23.080 buying your products and services. Yeah. Yeah. Ultimately. I love that. Like I know Jay might pay

01:02:28.720 you, but if you don't have clientele, Jay's not going to have any money to pay you with. Yeah. So

01:02:34.940 I look at every email that I might need to send, every phone call I need to field, every conversation

01:02:40.640 that I have is a networking opportunity. And I either take a withdrawal from the relational bank

01:02:47.320 account or a deposit. So if a guy, for example, comes to me and says, Hey Ryan, I'm thinking about

01:02:52.320 leaving the iron council, but can we go ahead and close our membership? And I'm like, yeah,

01:02:55.480 well screw you, you piece of shit. Like we didn't want you here anyways. Yeah. And I know

01:03:00.420 that's extreme, but I've had emails that are similar to that. Like, well, you're a loser

01:03:04.080 cause you're not. And you should deposit or withdraw. Definitely a withdrawal. But if I say,

01:03:10.600 Hey man, look, I understand things come up. If it's financially related, we have a financial

01:03:15.380 assistance fund. We'd love to help you out so you can stay in the iron council. If it's something

01:03:19.260 else, no problem. I wish you the best on your path. We'll get it resolved for you. And if you

01:03:24.660 ever decide to come back, let me know. Cause you have a seat at the table here, deposit or

01:03:30.000 withdrawal, same outcome. The guy ends up leaving the iron council. Either way, deposit or withdrawal

01:03:35.120 deposit. What's that guy going to do when he's in a better position? Maybe he'll come back.

01:03:40.780 Maybe he'll tell 10 of his friends. Maybe he's got a great business. And one day he's like,

01:03:45.380 you know what? Like this business blew up. I think I'd like to sponsor Ryan's podcast at $5,000 a

01:03:50.660 month. Like things will happen. Just be decent to people. Totally. Yeah. I like it. All right.

01:03:59.140 Austin Chamberlain. We talk a lot about things for sons like rites of passage and teaching them

01:04:05.040 masculinity. What are some important lessons that a father specifically can teach his daughters?

01:04:10.000 It's the same. Yeah. It's the same. You know, I, I know we talked to men and I've thought a lot

01:04:18.380 about this question, but I actually think there's a lot of situations where the things that we teach

01:04:22.900 to our sons might actually be more important to our daughters. Kip, you and I have talked about

01:04:28.600 self-defense, for example. Is it more important that a man learns how to defend himself or a woman?

01:04:33.400 What do you think? I think a woman, I'm more concerned about my daughters being able to defend

01:04:38.280 themselves than my boys. And I don't think that's unfounded. Like Jocko said this years ago,

01:04:44.600 I heard this and it was a very interesting thing. He said, sometimes a man has what another man wants,

01:04:50.040 but all the time a woman has what another man wants. Right? Like I might have money or I might

01:04:57.880 have a car. I might have something that another man wants. And so he breaks into my house or he mugs

01:05:01.900 me or carjacks me, but a woman always has what another man wants. Yeah. So I think self-defense

01:05:09.340 is something that would be very, very important to teach your daughter. I think sovereignty. So she

01:05:16.380 doesn't have to rely on a horrible man. And by the way, I'm not saying by any means that all men are

01:05:21.280 horrible. You know that if you've been listening to this for any amount of time, so I don't ever want

01:05:25.900 this, what I'm saying now to be interpreted that way, but we know they're out there. That's why this

01:05:30.980 mission exists. So we can be men and call other men to be the same, which means that there's men

01:05:36.840 who aren't acting like men out there, which means that our daughters will probably bump into them at

01:05:40.480 some point. But if my daughter has to rely on a man financially because she's in financial hardship

01:05:48.340 and she doesn't have any sort of skillset that she can go out and market herself, then that's a

01:05:52.340 problem. Yeah. If she can't defend herself in a, in a, in a realistic, reasonable way, then that could

01:05:58.960 potentially be a problem. So I think all of the things are the same, but I also think this is

01:06:05.520 important too. And this is the difference between a man and a woman to one of the differences. I think

01:06:11.640 it's important that we allow women to be women and that we honor feminine femininity in women.

01:06:18.400 Women are supposed to be beautiful. They're supposed to be loving. They're supposed to be kind and

01:06:23.500 nurturing and empathetic and beautiful. And I'm not just talking about physical beauty. I'm talking about

01:06:27.900 inside, spiritual, emotional, mental. I want, I, I appreciate feminine women because they bring

01:06:38.140 an element to the discussion that men generally don't bring on their own. We're hard and we're

01:06:44.160 disciplined and we're focused and, and, and that's good too, but we have to have both. And I don't want

01:06:52.860 to break women of that. I don't want to strip them of that because of the realities of the world.

01:07:01.660 I, I would love for my daughter to be able to be feminine, beautiful and lovely and kind and

01:07:08.000 empathetic and also have skillsets to be able to take care of herself in a meaningful way and have

01:07:14.220 some sovereignty. So she's not reliant on men all the time. And she's not defenseless against men.

01:07:24.460 What would you add though, Kip?

01:07:26.020 The only thing I would add.

01:07:27.260 Oh, can I say one other thing about that?

01:07:29.440 So the, the, the answer to making sure that you, you, uh, your daughter is learns about femininity,

01:07:37.080 like not feminism, right? Beautiful. Cause that's not feminine at all. They should come up with a

01:07:42.260 different word for it. It's not fed. It's not beautiful. It's hideous. It's gross. Yeah.

01:07:46.800 Uh, is to have lovely women in your daughter's life. That could be your wife, girlfriend, her

01:07:54.000 grandmother, people in the community, people at church organizations that are lovely, beautiful,

01:07:59.080 kind, empathetic women. They can't learn it from you. You don't have it to the degree that women do.

01:08:02.860 So just like I would say, I had a woman the other day, she's like, I can't remember the post,

01:08:07.540 but she says, Oh, I'm trying to be a mother to my son and his father. I'm like, well,

01:08:11.640 you're going to fail on that. I mean, I appreciate the sentiment, but you're not his father. And this

01:08:17.580 is, you know, people will say, well, you know, happy father's day. And women will say, well,

01:08:20.880 you know, I'm a father too. You're not a father. You're a single mother. You're not as far. I

01:08:25.080 understand that you have to try to play both roles, but the best thing you can do in that

01:08:28.600 situation is get your daughter and son around other men. Men are fathers, women are mothers

01:08:36.020 for a reason. It works. Yeah. Okay. The one thing I was going to just add, I want to add,

01:08:43.400 actually, I want to add to your list at all, but maybe a distinction is how it gets perceived as

01:08:50.520 will be different between your sons and your daughters, right? Your son's looking to you as

01:08:54.660 a model to, to who he can become and what's possible for him. Your daughter more likely

01:09:01.920 is identifying what a man should be like in her life. And, and so just always keep that in mind.

01:09:09.300 Is it, we are showing them the example of what, what future men, boyfriends and husbands look like

01:09:17.700 for them based upon how we show up, where our sons are probably just trying to be like us.

01:09:22.040 Uh, I agree. I was writing this down. I said, your son, what your son will look to you to,

01:09:26.760 will look to you, will look to you for who to be. Your daughter will look to you for who to be with.

01:09:32.240 Yeah. I like that. You know? So absolutely. Cool. Cool. Kip, I know I got on a little bit of rant on

01:09:39.100 some of those things. I'm fired up. I'm passionate about some of these things today. So I hope it didn't

01:09:42.800 come across as like, like, I don't know, something other than I intended. I'm just excited about it.

01:09:47.540 And these are conversations that we need to have. So. No, I, I agree. I mean, it's the,

01:09:53.260 the only, the only threat is it's so easy to rattle on it. We could just talk about one thing

01:09:59.120 just for an hour or two, but, but, uh, yeah, so important. So I, I'm excited to see how our

01:10:05.860 headline segment goes. And I'm wondering like in my head, kind of wondering like, is this going to be

01:10:11.160 a fourth show per week? I don't know, but I am, it is something I'm thinking about. So yeah. Or,

01:10:16.280 or you start realizing what kind of news I'm reading and you're like, all right, Kip, you know

01:10:20.160 what? You can't bring headlines to the table. I don't know what you're watching. Steve, Steve,

01:10:24.920 come on, let's go. We need relief. All right. So let's wrap up. So the key thing, you got a couple

01:10:35.460 weeks. We're going to open up the, uh, enrollment for the iron council to learn more order of man.com

01:10:41.320 slash iron council. There is the battle ready program for you guys that aren't interested in

01:10:47.160 join the IC, or maybe that's in the future. Uh, you can sign up for the battle ready. That's a 12

01:10:52.800 week program. Um, and that's order of man.com slash battle ready. And as always connect with

01:10:59.180 Mr. Mickler on Instagram and X at Ryan Mickler. And I don't know the latest. I should have

01:11:05.300 asked before we started, but, uh, are we full for the uprising? I think we may have one cancellation.

01:11:12.120 So there might be one opening right now. There may be. So if you're interested, you got go check

01:11:18.260 quick. It might already be sold out. I don't know. But if we do, we have one spot left and that's at

01:11:22.720 order of man.com slash uprising. Excellent. Anything else, sir? All right, guys, that's it guys. Great

01:11:29.760 questions today. Hopefully we Kip and I gave you some things to consider Kip, how to connect with you is

01:11:34.440 the only other thing I would say, cause I'd love these guys to be able to connect with you as well.

01:11:37.920 Yeah, for sure. Uh, you can connect with me on, on Instagram, primarily at Kip Sorensen,

01:11:43.080 K-I-P-P S-O-R-E-N-S-E-N. You said P-P Kip. I know you and my kids. How often do you get that?

01:11:51.420 Every day from my kids, whenever I'm anywhere. They're all like giggling.

01:11:58.260 Oh, you were my children. I know I did. I'd much rather hang out with the kids and the adults

01:12:06.920 any day of the week anyway. So, all right guys. Hey, good questions today. Appreciate it. Like I

01:12:12.500 said, hopefully we gave you some things to consider. Uh, we'll be back on Friday until then go out there,

01:12:16.860 take action and become a man. You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man

01:12:22.280 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:12:27.380 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 28, 2024

When to Limit Transparency, False Summits, and Toxic Work Environments ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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