Order of Man - When Vulnerability Goes Wrong, The OODA Loop, and Honoring Choice

00:00:00.400 You've got your process, you've got the priorities, you've made decisions, you've got the right people involved,

00:00:06.280 you've looked at what resources need to happen, and now you're going to act on that.

00:00:10.120 And then once you act, this is why it's called a loop, you act, and then you go right back.

00:00:15.280 Did this work? Now we're back in observation.

00:00:17.540 Did this work? What impact did it make with my family?

00:00:20.340 What impact did it make with my business?

00:00:22.160 What impact did it make with my health?

00:00:24.060 And you go through the process again.

00:00:25.900 The OODA loop, it's powerful.

00:00:26.980 You're a man of action.

00:00:31.220 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:35.580 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:40.020 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:45.120 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:47.620 This is who you will become.

00:00:49.340 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:54.300 Kip, what's up, brother? Good to see you.

00:00:57.480 Glad we could do this Monday morning.

00:00:59.100 Very excited after a long, productive weekend.

00:01:02.020 Maybe not that long, but definitely productive to get back to things.

00:01:04.780 So, good to see you, man.

00:01:05.760 Yeah.

00:01:06.300 Got to buckle down last weekend, correct?

00:01:08.740 Because we have holiday weekend coming up.

00:01:10.400 Do you have plans for Labor Day?

00:01:12.980 I do, yeah.

00:01:15.580 Fake holidays are always interesting to me.

00:01:17.920 This is one I consider a fake holiday.

00:01:19.620 That's why I brought it up.

00:01:20.460 People about this, yeah.

00:01:23.320 I actually am going to be taking Labor Day, as if that should be a holiday, off this year.

00:01:29.880 My girlfriend's coming down with her kids, so we're going to spend the weekend together

00:01:33.260 with my kids, her kids.

00:01:35.200 There is a big local fair where I am and parade and all the things, so we're going to do that.

00:01:42.200 And then I'm going to take Monday off for Labor Day.

00:01:45.560 And by the way, fake holidays.

00:01:46.960 Let me just explain what that means.

00:01:49.300 Government holidays.

00:01:50.400 That's what that means to me.

00:01:52.280 Yeah.

00:01:52.840 Thanksgiving.

00:01:53.440 Now, look, I know a lot of other holidays are now recognized by the government.

00:01:57.900 That's not what I'm saying.

00:01:58.960 The birth of Christ is not a fake holiday.

00:02:02.920 The resurrection of Christ is not a fake holiday.

00:02:07.340 Thanksgiving, that's a quasi-fake holiday, but I honor that one.

00:02:11.800 But you get into Labor Day, even Memorial Day, and I can say that as a veteran.

00:02:16.860 I'm allowed to say that.

00:02:17.780 Not very many people are, but I'm allowed to.

00:02:20.240 I don't need to take the day off for that stuff.

00:02:22.280 For me, I'm thinking, hey, you know what?

00:02:23.740 I'm just going to go to work just like I would any other day and honor the workforce on Memorial Day,

00:02:32.560 honor those veterans who have fallen for us, and just get to work.

00:02:36.580 Like, but maybe I'm getting a little looser in my old age as well.

00:02:41.340 I don't know.

00:02:41.660 We'll see.

00:02:43.920 I love it, man.

00:02:45.100 So you got a hot topic just to trigger everybody.

00:02:48.940 What do you got for our headline today?

00:02:51.600 Man, if I say these two words, people are going to lose their minds, apparently.

00:02:56.640 So you're going to say them.

00:02:58.580 I'm going to say them.

00:02:59.740 I'm definitely going to say them.

00:03:00.880 And everybody's going to explode.

00:03:02.700 Are you ready for this?

00:03:03.960 Yeah.

00:03:04.580 Cracker barrel.

00:03:05.300 What in the world?

00:03:08.060 I mean, come on, guys.

00:03:10.600 Like, we have bigger fish to fry.

00:03:13.140 And maybe the fact that we're going to talk about it here for the next couple of minutes

00:03:15.900 says that we're actually just as guilty as anybody else of falling into the trap of this.

00:03:20.920 But let's be honest.

00:03:22.580 I don't really care about what Cracker Barrel's logo looks like.

00:03:26.320 If you want to go have some chicken fried steak, you want to eat some mashed potatoes and corn,

00:03:30.700 a bunch of people say their French toast is really good.

00:03:33.000 I would never go to a restaurant and order French toast.

00:03:35.540 That seems weird.

00:03:37.440 But yeah, if you want to have a quasi home-cooked meal, go to Cracker Barrel, eat your corn,

00:03:43.940 eat your chicken fried steak, and then go home and spend time with your family and live your life.

00:03:49.100 I don't care what their logo looks like.

00:03:50.800 I really don't.

00:03:51.300 I have another thought on that, but I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.

00:03:55.960 I mean, I immediately go to the human condition of why do people do these kind of things, you know?

00:04:02.560 And it goes back to a conversation I had with my brother, actually, last week.

00:04:06.460 We were talking about family members, and I was like, hey, give me some updates on some family members.

00:04:11.220 He's giving me an update.

00:04:12.100 And one of my questions to him was, so are they about something?

00:04:17.960 Are they doing something?

00:04:19.800 Are they getting after it in some way?

00:04:23.680 Because if they don't, you create all kinds of drama in life.

00:04:28.520 The human condition is that if you're not getting after it, if you're not about something bigger than oneself, you will create problems.

00:04:38.300 And when I hear about this, that's all I think about is, oh, people grabbing for problems.

00:04:43.560 Why?

00:04:43.840 Because they're not choosing theirs, and they're not choosing wisely.

00:04:49.100 I heard once that, and I think I actually made a post on Instagram about this, that your job is to choose better problems.

00:04:55.340 That's it.

00:04:55.720 I think it was in reference to Cracker Barrel.

00:04:57.420 No, choose better problems.

00:04:59.580 Everyone has a hunger.

00:05:01.220 Go clean up trash in your local community.

00:05:03.480 Go coach your children's youth football team.

00:05:08.260 Like, you got better problems to worry about than what Cracker Barrel is doing.

00:05:12.140 And by the way, when you do these things, all this other little nonsense, it goes away because it's not the attention-seeking that these organizations desire.

00:05:20.660 When I made that post, I said, give it a week, and Cracker Barrel stock will be up.

00:05:26.120 And everyone's like, it's down 40%.

00:05:27.440 I said, give it a week.

00:05:28.680 Read the text, bro.

00:05:29.880 Like, read the caption first.

00:05:32.420 And then comment.

00:05:33.560 Read.

00:05:35.040 Give it a week.

00:05:36.200 Okay, maybe slightly more, slightly less.

00:05:38.580 It's fine.

00:05:39.320 Cracker Barrel's going to be fine.

00:05:40.560 I promise.

00:05:41.060 There's enough old people to go around who are going to continue to support Cracker Barrel.

00:05:44.640 Because they can't even see the logo, let alone acknowledge what it is or what it looks like.

00:05:50.660 So it's not that big a deal.

00:05:53.300 But I will say, okay, there is one thing, though.

00:05:56.880 And this is an interesting argument, is that all the social institutions are being dismantled.

00:06:06.380 I hear that.

00:06:07.000 I'm like, well, Cracker Barrel is hardly the social institution that I think you're talking about.

00:06:12.820 But let's just say, for the sake of argument, it is.

00:06:16.740 Sure, yeah.

00:06:17.900 I don't know what the difference was between the old one and the new one, besides the guy in the barrel.

00:06:23.800 I don't even know if that was supposed to signify something.

00:06:26.820 I don't know if people think that's racist or not racist.

00:06:29.500 I'm sure it has something to do with that, or misogynistic.

00:06:32.240 I don't know.

00:06:32.820 I don't know what the argument is, other than it just looks kind of dumb.

00:06:38.000 So just sometimes it's okay to leave things alone.

00:06:41.600 And I think that's the problem that we get into if we're looking at it from a bigger picture,

00:06:45.460 not just the Cracker Barrel thing, is that we oftentimes mistake action for prudence.

00:06:51.240 We think that if we're doing something, that somehow it's automatically going to be better.

00:06:56.280 I saw this all the time in my financial planning practice.

00:06:58.760 People would come in, in a down market or an up market, and they'd say,

00:07:02.260 let's rebalance, let's change, let's buy, let's sell.

00:07:04.560 I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hold on a second.

00:07:07.660 Action doesn't automatically equate to being prudent.

00:07:11.480 Sometimes the best thing you can do is the thing you're already doing.

00:07:15.680 If you already have it locked in, keep it locked in.

00:07:18.660 If, guys, you're overweight, and maybe you've cut out processed sugars,

00:07:23.080 and you're exercising, and you're being healthier,

00:07:26.000 and you lost a pound or two last week,

00:07:28.760 it's working.

00:07:30.560 Do it again.

00:07:32.180 The problem with so many humans, myself included,

00:07:35.200 is that we always want novelty.

00:07:37.860 We always want what's new, what's better, what's greater,

00:07:40.780 what's faster, what's bigger, what's more efficient,

00:07:43.480 what's more productive, what's more beautiful, what's more exciting.

00:07:45.840 Instead of just saying, you know what?

00:07:48.580 This seems to be working.

00:07:50.020 I'm going to do this for the rest of my life.

00:07:52.700 Now, that's not an excuse to be oblivious to whatever else might happen

00:07:56.560 or changes in research and technology and information,

00:08:00.480 but it is a little bit of a wake-up call for you to acknowledge

00:08:05.840 that what you're doing might actually be working,

00:08:08.540 and just let it process.

00:08:10.840 We want everything right now,

00:08:12.360 and I think this is part of the instant gratification society that we live in,

00:08:16.380 that we want it now.

00:08:17.280 If I don't lose 50 pounds this week, it must not be working.

00:08:20.780 50 pounds?

00:08:21.620 Bro, it took you 10 years to become 50 pounds overweight.

00:08:26.280 It's probably going to take a little while to lose the weight.

00:08:30.240 So let's be patient.

00:08:32.580 Let's relax.

00:08:33.840 Let's focus on what's important for us

00:08:36.060 and never mistake action for prudence.

00:08:39.600 Maybe sometimes the best thing is exactly the way it currently is.

00:08:44.120 Yeah, I mean, there's a cost to change.

00:08:47.500 I was actually talking with our CEO about this last week,

00:08:50.960 and, man, I wish I had the statistics in front of me.

00:08:56.140 But more or less, he talks about there's a 20% reduction in change always.

00:09:01.660 So if the change isn't going to improve things by 40%, you don't do it.

00:09:07.640 40%.

00:09:08.160 Interesting.

00:09:08.800 40 is huge.

00:09:10.400 Huge, which pretty much means all change,

00:09:13.020 you probably shouldn't be doing, which is wild to me, right?

00:09:18.100 And then you bring up novelty, and it's like, okay, well, how much of novelty is like,

00:09:21.900 it's novelty for me.

00:09:23.420 Like, I'm excited about it because it's novelty for me.

00:09:26.440 But for all the people affected, guess what that is?

00:09:29.060 That's just change.

00:09:30.600 Change.

00:09:31.860 Unnecessary change.

00:09:33.220 Risk.

00:09:33.660 They're not excited about it.

00:09:34.740 You are because it's your decision.

00:09:36.980 But everyone else, they have other things that they're dealing with,

00:09:40.540 and your change is net negative.

00:09:44.060 It's a threat to them.

00:09:45.520 It's wild when you start thinking about things like that.

00:09:49.200 Yeah.

00:09:50.000 I didn't know it was 40%.

00:09:52.220 But it's hard because so many – here's what I would say.

00:09:55.620 Unless you're hitting your benchmarks at 80-plus percent consistently,

00:10:02.660 let's call it 90 days.

00:10:04.580 Yeah.

00:10:05.500 Don't worry about anything else.

00:10:08.000 That's what I would say.

00:10:09.780 Give it 90 days.

00:10:10.980 As a general rule of thumb, I know there's going to be exceptions

00:10:13.720 and different nuances to it, but as a general rule of thumb,

00:10:17.400 let's just say if you're on a regiment for working out, just give it 90 days.

00:10:23.860 If you haven't done 80% for 90 days, don't change.

00:10:27.900 You're not there yet.

00:10:29.600 Yeah.

00:10:29.840 If it's nutrition, a diet change, do it at least 80% for 90 days.

00:10:35.140 If you do it for 90 days and you do 90% and you're not seeing results,

00:10:39.320 it's time to question.

00:10:41.440 Yeah.

00:10:42.280 If in business you initiate a new thing – again, I know there's exceptions.

00:10:46.880 I know there's nuance to this.

00:10:48.600 And you do it 80-plus percent for 90 days and you're seeing no change,

00:10:52.680 eh, you might start questioning what you're doing.

00:10:55.920 Yeah.

00:10:56.320 But outside of that, just get to 80%, I think.

00:10:59.680 Yeah, and I think the key is the 80%, right?

00:11:02.360 Right.

00:11:02.680 Most – we're like, oh, we'll implement this change

00:11:04.780 and then we'll half-ass implement a change.

00:11:08.040 Right.

00:11:08.340 Don't follow through.

00:11:09.620 Not really follow it completely in.

00:11:12.720 And then it putters out and we're like, yeah, it didn't really work.

00:11:15.980 It's like, well, you kept eating donuts, right?

00:11:19.180 Of course it didn't work.

00:11:20.340 You actually didn't implement the change.

00:11:22.720 Not really.

00:11:24.140 You know what I mean?

00:11:24.560 I ate less calories, but all the calories I consumed were all donuts and bonbons and Snickers.

00:11:30.980 I don't know what the problem is.

00:11:32.200 Gee, I wonder.

00:11:34.040 Yeah.

00:11:34.560 There must be an easier way.

00:11:36.620 Yeah.

00:11:36.960 Yeah.

00:11:37.640 Yeah.

00:11:38.060 Wild stuff, man.

00:11:39.220 But I say hit the 80 before you start changing things.

00:11:42.160 All right.

00:11:42.460 Well, let's get into some questions today.

00:11:44.020 I know we have some from the Iron Council.

00:11:45.500 I know we probably have some from Facebook if we get to them.

00:11:48.060 I did see a post in Facebook today.

00:11:50.020 This was not specifically related to my request for questions for this podcast, but I think

00:11:55.540 it's worthy of addressing.

00:11:56.780 And I'm paraphrasing.

00:11:57.760 I don't even know the gentleman's name.

00:11:59.180 He didn't ask to be talked about on this podcast.

00:12:02.000 I'm not even going to mention it.

00:12:02.920 But he had talked about his son, I think it's his son, and his son is facing a bully and

00:12:10.820 has been bullied, it sounds like, about three times in relatively serious situations.

00:12:17.100 If he can name the times that he's being bullied, then that would be-

00:12:20.520 Yeah, it's serious enough.

00:12:21.220 How old?

00:12:21.360 That's a serious thing.

00:12:22.860 That I don't know.

00:12:24.560 Okay.

00:12:24.900 And his general question was, how do I help my kid navigate a bully?

00:12:31.560 And I thought it's worthy of discussion.

00:12:34.180 We're getting back into the school year.

00:12:35.900 We just started here in Southern Utah.

00:12:37.680 I think you started last week, maybe, in Northern Utah.

00:12:41.160 I'm sure people across the country have already started or are starting in the next several

00:12:44.500 weeks.

00:12:45.260 So the question is, how do you help your child confront and deal with a bully?

00:12:49.860 Do you have any thoughts on this, Kip?

00:12:50.800 And then I'll give mine as well.

00:12:52.380 Of course, I have thoughts.

00:12:53.600 You want me to go first, though?

00:12:55.340 Of course.

00:12:56.040 You know, I find this interesting.

00:12:58.020 You're the martial artist.

00:12:59.200 Of course, I want you to go first.

00:13:01.440 Let me first say this.

00:13:05.120 By full disclosure, I was raised most of my life being bullied.

00:13:14.400 I remember the first time I got in a fight, my fight probably started happening for me

00:13:19.900 maybe in third grade.

00:13:21.460 We moved a lot all the way up until high school, and I got in fights all the time, all the time.

00:13:29.920 Every single school I moved to, I'd have to get in a fight.

00:13:32.980 And most of the time, I got my butt kicked.

00:13:36.640 I would get destroyed.

00:13:39.780 Like, totally destroyed.

00:13:41.440 Sounds about right.

00:13:42.980 Yeah.

00:13:43.360 Just battered up, walking home.

00:13:45.940 I just leave school all bloody.

00:13:47.820 You know what I mean?

00:13:48.940 And I'm wiping up my face so my parents don't know.

00:13:51.440 Right?

00:13:51.840 And then go back to school.

00:13:53.600 Why didn't you want your parents to know?

00:13:54.860 Because I knew my parents would swoop in and, like, make matters worse for me.

00:14:03.080 For you.

00:14:03.800 So, yeah, because I felt like they would.

00:14:05.740 They would get parents involved.

00:14:08.120 You know what I mean?

00:14:08.940 Then I'd have this kid even more mad at me because their parent, like, it wouldn't.

00:14:13.240 I didn't believe at the time that it would help the circumstance.

00:14:16.300 I felt like it would make it worse.

00:14:19.300 So, with that all said, there's a level of bulliness that has to do with our confidence level.

00:14:28.720 It's fascinating to me that when kids have confidence in having self-defense, they get in less fights and they get bullied less.

00:14:40.040 Not because they use the skill, because of their confidence in their skill.

00:14:47.040 So, I think there's two things you have to be looking at when we talk about bullies.

00:14:51.580 Is where your kid's mental confidence, where their confidence is with oneself and their confidence in their ability to defend themselves.

00:15:00.560 And the physical ability to defend themselves.

00:15:03.740 It's twofold.

00:15:04.660 And what's beautiful about most martial arts, especially jiu-jitsu, is that those kids that learn jiu-jitsu, not only do they learn to defend themselves in most cases, they learn to have a level of confidence where they defuse the bullying by the way they show up in it.

00:15:24.620 Nothing invites a bully more than you being a coward to them.

00:15:29.560 That's why they bully you.

00:15:32.980 Because they know they can.

00:15:35.840 And a lot of it has to do with how we react to the bully.

00:15:40.220 And that is what perpetuates the bullying or not.

00:15:44.680 So, that's just my take on it.

00:15:47.600 Like, get your kid into martial arts.

00:15:49.620 Get them into jiu-jitsu.

00:15:51.220 Two things will happen.

00:15:52.780 If they need to defend themselves, they will be able to.

00:15:55.420 But most importantly is they will build some confidence and they will feel, let me say it this way, they will come into the realization of what it's like to be in it, to battle with someone trying to hurt you and realize even then it's okay.

00:16:13.060 It's okay to be in a physical confrontation with someone.

00:16:16.360 It's all going to be okay.

00:16:17.700 And you can walk away from it.

00:16:19.400 And now the bullying doesn't mean all this other stuff that it often means.

00:16:24.220 Yeah.

00:16:26.540 I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

00:16:29.160 One of the things I thought about as I saw this post is that, and I don't know, it'd be interesting to find statistics or data or information on this.

00:16:38.900 But I imagine those who are well-trained at their age, children, well-trained in martial arts, are less likely to get into confrontations.

00:16:47.600 I would assume that's the case.

00:16:49.680 Absolutely.

00:16:50.260 I've already read these statistics before.

00:16:52.220 You have?

00:16:52.640 Okay.

00:16:52.780 Probably find some.

00:16:53.740 Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:55.080 There's a major correlation between kids that do martial arts and how often they get in physical confrontations with other kids.

00:17:01.900 It drastically drops.

00:17:03.980 My kids, every once in a while, they'll make fun of me.

00:17:07.260 They'll laugh at me.

00:17:07.780 They're like, Dad, why do you walk like that in public?

00:17:11.080 And I'm like, what do you mean?

00:17:12.200 Walk like what?

00:17:12.700 Walk like what?

00:17:13.680 And they say I walk like a Neanderthal.

00:17:16.080 Like I get, my shoulders get big and my arms get wide and I'm like, don't fuck with me.

00:17:24.520 And they always kind of laugh at me about it.

00:17:26.900 I'm like, well, I, you know, maybe I do that instinctively.

00:17:30.180 Yeah.

00:17:30.340 Maybe I do that on purpose.

00:17:31.800 A form of posturing.

00:17:33.300 For sure.

00:17:34.160 Yeah.

00:17:34.560 Yeah.

00:17:34.860 And that's, that was kind of interesting.

00:17:36.640 Well, I, so I agree with everything you said.

00:17:38.420 I wrote down a couple of things and I'm going to invoke some characters, some fictional characters here.

00:17:43.120 Yeah.

00:17:43.300 But I, I invoked these individuals because I think it gives us a little bit different way to look at this.

00:17:50.120 Cause this is a question that's been asked as, as long as man's been on the planet, right?

00:17:54.260 How do you, how do you deescalate a situation?

00:17:58.580 How do you keep people from messing with you?

00:18:00.300 How do you keep from that warring tribe from attacking you?

00:18:02.740 So here, here's a couple of things.

00:18:04.260 Some of them are going to be a little controversial, but I want you to think about this differently.

00:18:09.420 Okay.

00:18:09.620 So I'm going to invoke Jordan Peterson.

00:18:11.540 I'm going to invoke Johnny Lawrence and I'm going to invoke Jiminy Cricket when I talk about this.

00:18:17.080 Okay.

00:18:17.860 So let's, let's do Jordan Peterson first.

00:18:21.640 I wrote this down.

00:18:23.300 Don't let your children be weird.

00:18:26.360 And I know that's going to be controversial, but don't let your child be a weirdo.

00:18:32.040 Okay.

00:18:32.520 If your child is a weirdo, there's peer pressure, there's things that happen.

00:18:36.520 And when I say weird, I'm talking about antisocial behavior.

00:18:41.140 Yeah.

00:18:41.200 Now, barring some sort of medical condition, mental illness, you don't have to let your kid be weird.

00:18:49.340 And I'm not saying your child always has to fit in.

00:18:52.700 In fact, I would say that it's good idea to have them have some fringes and some edges that are unique.

00:18:59.180 But if your children are antisocial, then they're going to face more issues and little things that you can do on a daily basis.

00:19:07.220 If you go to a restaurant, why are you ordering your kids' food unless they're two?

00:19:12.740 If they're three, four, five years old and they can formulate words, noises into coherent words, then they should be ordering their own food.

00:19:24.840 Why are you robbing them of the opportunity to engage with other people in a healthy and respectful way?

00:19:31.080 If you meet somebody, you're going to introduce that person to your child and that child is going to say,

00:19:38.720 Hello, I'm so-and-so.

00:19:40.780 And they're going to extend their hand and they're going to reach out and they're going to shake their hand.

00:19:43.780 Teach your children to be assertive.

00:19:45.760 Teach them not to be worried about people.

00:19:47.960 Teach them how to communicate.

00:19:49.280 Teach them how to articulate who they are.

00:19:51.480 Teach them how to share what's important to them.

00:19:53.700 to share ideas, to have conflicting ideas.

00:19:59.420 Don't let your children be antisocial.

00:20:02.040 And the reason I am invoking Jordan Peterson on this one, I think is one of his rules,

00:20:06.740 is don't let your children do anything that would make you hate them or not like them.

00:20:13.260 Yeah, because you'll lash out.

00:20:14.700 Yeah, he talks about how you'll lash out as a parent outside of the circumstance.

00:20:18.820 So will other people.

00:20:19.900 Because, yeah, totally.

00:20:22.080 Yep.

00:20:22.360 And I'm going to say something really controversial, but I think it's true.

00:20:28.200 Ugly kids and weird kids get picked on more than non-weird kids and attractive people.

00:20:33.240 And we know that even as you become adults.

00:20:35.620 If I take two job applicants for a position with order of man and one's an attractive, fit-looking man

00:20:41.800 and the other one kind of looks like a slob and he's not well-groomed,

00:20:45.220 I'm going to pick, all things being equal, I'm going to pick the attractive, well-groomed, fit individual.

00:20:50.740 Because it says something about a person.

00:20:53.700 Yeah.

00:20:53.900 So that's number one.

00:20:54.740 Number two, Johnny Lawrence Cobra Kai.

00:20:57.200 Strike first, strike hard, no mercy.

00:20:59.340 Those are the rules.

00:21:00.420 We know the rules.

00:21:01.960 I love that.

00:21:02.920 When the situation comes, and I've seen, I watch fights on social media, like, if somebody gets in my space,

00:21:11.240 I'm not going to wait for them to hit me.

00:21:14.040 Why would I do that?

00:21:15.580 Yeah.

00:21:15.820 If they're in my space and they're threatening me, I'm going to strike first.

00:21:20.880 And when I strike, I'm going to strike to hurt, to incapacitate.

00:21:26.880 I want you incapacitated.

00:21:28.960 I need to neutralize the threat.

00:21:30.240 And no mercy means, you know what?

00:21:32.060 Until you're neutralized, you're still a threat to me.

00:21:35.320 Yeah.

00:21:35.960 And I don't care if it's on school grounds.

00:21:37.940 I don't care if it's in public.

00:21:39.160 I don't care if it's in the bar.

00:21:40.440 Not for your kids, obviously, for you.

00:21:42.340 I don't care where it is.

00:21:44.580 Strike first, strike hard, no mercy.

00:21:47.520 What were you going to say?

00:21:49.100 I was just going to say, because it's only one shot away, right?

00:21:53.240 If that guy gets the swing on you first and it's a connected shot, you're done.

00:21:58.460 So there is no like, well, you know, I'll give him a fair shake first.

00:22:02.040 It's like, no, the fair shake is your unconscious face down in the concrete.

00:22:06.880 That's what happens when you don't go first.

00:22:09.240 The fair shake that individual had was to leave you alone, and they didn't.

00:22:15.680 So now it's not a fair fight, and I'll stack the deck in my favor all day long.

00:22:21.940 If somebody breaks into my house, I'm not shooting them in the kneecap.

00:22:26.140 I'm going to try to put two in their heart as quickly as I possibly can.

00:22:30.580 That is my goal.

00:22:31.740 If it's come to that point, strike first, strike hard, no mercy.

00:22:35.780 All right.

00:22:35.960 And then the third one is Jiminy Cricket.

00:22:38.760 You have to be your kid's biggest voice.

00:22:43.060 All right.

00:22:44.100 I've had my children who are like, oh, you know what?

00:22:46.140 I'll get in trouble if I stand up for myself at school.

00:22:48.520 The hell you will.

00:22:50.080 Yeah.

00:22:50.320 Who gives a shit what they think.

00:22:51.660 Yeah.

00:22:51.960 You'll get grounded.

00:22:53.540 Excuse me.

00:22:53.980 You'll get suspended from school.

00:22:57.060 Detention or suspended, yeah.

00:22:57.360 Detention, suspension, restitution.

00:22:59.400 And then you're going to come home, and you're going to be a hero.

00:23:04.140 Yeah.

00:23:04.840 Like the family is going to carry you on our shoulders and run you around the house like

00:23:08.920 you're Rudy.

00:23:10.620 If you're standing up for yourself and you beat a bully down or you stand up for another

00:23:15.000 kid who can't protect themselves, I'm going to take you out for a dinner, a steak dinner.

00:23:19.980 I'm going to take you out for ice cream, and then I'm going to take work off, and we're

00:23:23.680 taking the next three days, and we're celebrating you.

00:23:26.420 And my voice needs to be the loudest voice in my children's ear because they've got their

00:23:32.200 teachers, and they've got the principal, and they've got other little kids who don't know

00:23:36.060 what they're talking about and what their people are teaching them.

00:23:38.940 My voice is the most important one.

00:23:41.740 Unless I know my children, I'm building trust and rapport and credibility, reaching out to

00:23:46.460 them, connecting with them, being interested in the things they're interested in, having

00:23:50.460 discipline and connection, my voice is just not going to be the loudest.

00:23:53.840 So I deviated from the standard advice that we get, but I think these things are very,

00:23:59.360 very important when it comes to dealing with bullies.

00:24:02.020 Yeah.

00:24:02.660 I love it.

00:24:03.360 Jordan Peterson, Johnny Lawrence, Jiminy Cricket.

00:24:07.120 That's right.

00:24:08.300 Done.

00:24:08.800 That's right.

00:24:09.520 I love it.

00:24:10.660 And just to illustrate your point, I mean, that's happened already.

00:24:14.740 Like, that's happened to us, right?

00:24:16.200 One of my older sons, Kiave, I remember elementary school, kids got in a fight.

00:24:20.440 He jumped in to protect this kid and he was six at the time.

00:24:25.880 I think he, he said, dad, I jujutsu'd him, right?

00:24:28.500 Like he just mounted this kid and like controlled him, you know, he, he got suspended.

00:24:33.980 He got in trouble, but we're like ice cream tonight, dude, you did, you did the right thing.

00:24:39.120 I don't give a crap about what teacher said.

00:24:41.460 You did great.

00:24:42.620 Yeah.

00:24:43.020 Good job.

00:24:43.640 Right.

00:24:43.900 And we had to celebrate it and, and, and fight against this idea that he was involved.

00:24:48.220 So by default, right, he was in trouble and he didn't even inscate a damn thing.

00:24:53.580 Yeah.

00:24:54.200 And you tell, you be honest, you say, yeah, you were involved.

00:24:57.000 Yeah.

00:24:57.100 You got yourself involved for the right reason.

00:24:59.380 And we honor you.

00:25:00.540 We celebrate you as a member of this family.

00:25:03.700 And you know what?

00:25:04.440 That other kid that you jumped in for would do the same.

00:25:07.360 He'd honor you as well.

00:25:09.020 Yeah, totally.

00:25:10.140 All right.

00:25:10.920 What's next?

00:25:11.580 All right.

00:25:11.900 Some questions from the foundry.

00:25:14.020 Chris Henningsen, how did you, or did, or did you keep the new relationship with your

00:25:20.180 girlfriend from moving forward too fast?

00:25:23.060 I find myself falling for her more each time with when, when I'm with her and wanting to

00:25:28.080 jump in more into her life, but I'm also not wanting to push things too far too fast.

00:25:33.000 Here's the key here.

00:25:34.160 She is not very confrontational and I'm worried that she won't tell me if she's uncomfortable

00:25:39.720 with how things are moving along.

00:25:41.900 That's tough.

00:25:46.480 Well, I think the first thing you need to do is establish clear boundaries on how often

00:25:50.620 you want to spend time with her.

00:25:52.500 Maybe that's three times a week.

00:25:54.400 Maybe it's every night.

00:25:55.320 I don't know what your dynamic is, but you communicate how often you would like to spend

00:26:00.480 time.

00:26:01.000 And I would also say when we're spending time together, here's what I would like to do.

00:26:04.840 Quite honestly, she might not be that confrontational.

00:26:09.180 She might actually just be looking for direction in her life.

00:26:11.560 I found that a lot of women love men who step up and actually lead in productive and healthy

00:26:15.660 ways.

00:26:16.840 And so if you say, Hey babe, you know, I'd like to spend four days a week together in

00:26:22.720 the evenings when work is done and I'd like to have Sunday reserved for you and me together.

00:26:27.340 Does that work for you?

00:26:29.000 And she says yes or no.

00:26:30.440 And then I would just make the assumption that if she says yes, she's a grown woman, that

00:26:35.060 if she says yes, then it's a yes.

00:26:37.380 And just act that way until it isn't.

00:26:41.440 And maybe she does get tired of it or maybe it doesn't work for her.

00:26:44.620 And so in that case, what I would say is be open and receptive to what she has to share.

00:26:50.600 I did a great podcast with Adam Lane Smith and he talked about this concept of the woman

00:26:58.060 being the COO and a man being the CEO of a relationship.

00:27:02.840 Did you hear that one, Kip?

00:27:04.480 No, I'm intrigued.

00:27:05.880 So yeah, so what he said is, uh, I think three, two or three weeks ago.

00:27:11.380 Okay.

00:27:12.400 And what he said is he's an attachment specialist.

00:27:15.240 He's a, he's a therapist.

00:27:16.540 He does a lot of great work.

00:27:17.540 He's been on the podcast before, but what he said is he said, generally it's the woman's

00:27:21.000 job to be the COO, meaning that she's going to come to you and say, Hey, this is not working.

00:27:26.200 This is wrong.

00:27:27.260 This is, this doesn't work.

00:27:28.600 This doesn't fit.

00:27:29.400 This is a problem.

00:27:30.860 And then the CEO's job is to say, okay, well, why is that a problem?

00:27:34.160 What do we need to do?

00:27:34.860 Fix it?

00:27:35.200 How big of a priority if we don't fix it, what's going to be the issue from there?

00:27:38.800 And then the CEO's job is to actually implement.

00:27:42.060 So if she comes to you and says, Hey, we're not spending enough time together, then it's

00:27:45.680 your job to say, okay, she recognizes that as a woman, that it's a problem in the dynamic

00:27:51.400 of the relationship.

00:27:52.280 And so the CEO's job is to say, all right, well, let me look at my schedule.

00:27:56.040 How can we build in more time?

00:27:59.140 So if she ever comes to you and says, Hey, this is a problem.

00:28:02.480 And she, she won't say it like that.

00:28:04.260 Probably what she'll do is she'll say, ah, man, I'm just, I'm really tired.

00:28:08.400 I don't have enough time for my own things.

00:28:10.020 What that means is that you're spending too much undivided attention together.

00:28:13.860 Or she might say, I really miss you every week.

00:28:16.720 I don't see you enough, right?

00:28:18.080 I just wish we had more time together.

00:28:20.340 Okay.

00:28:20.520 That's her problem.

00:28:21.460 Her problem is you guys are not getting enough quality time together.

00:28:25.000 Listen for it, pay attention to it.

00:28:27.300 And as the CEO of the relationship, figure out a way to address it.

00:28:31.560 That's your job.

00:28:32.300 Um, be very careful of taking things personally.

00:28:36.160 I've seen a lot of guys who they'll say things like trying to manage her.

00:28:42.280 You don't need to manage it.

00:28:43.780 You just need to make it happen.

00:28:45.160 Listen, just listen and make it happen.

00:28:47.680 Your job is to act.

00:28:48.960 Your job is to get shit done.

00:28:50.780 She'll tell you what needs to get done.

00:28:52.460 You do it.

00:28:53.800 And it's a beautiful symbiotic relationship because as men, I don't always see what needs to be done.

00:29:01.000 Like I could walk down the road and sometimes I see some problems, but you know, I'm not looking for every little thing that could be potentially wrong, but she's really good at that when it comes to a relationship.

00:29:11.920 And so if this is a person you trust and honor and love, just say, oh, okay, we can, we can do that.

00:29:20.360 As long as it doesn't cross your boundaries, we can do that.

00:29:22.460 And then you find a way to make it happen.

00:29:24.060 But what I would say is be very aware with somebody who's not, you said non-confrontational, be very aware of how you address anything she ever says to you.

00:29:38.260 Now, I'm not saying to walk on eggshells, but I am saying if she happens to this week, come to you and say, hey, you know what?

00:29:45.780 I was really frustrated last weekend.

00:29:48.980 I really wanted to do these things and you spent too much time hanging out, watching TV, and I really would have loved to have done these things.

00:29:58.840 Okay, let's just say she says that.

00:30:00.480 And then you say, well, you know what?

00:30:05.700 Like, you're always bothering me about that.

00:30:07.980 You know, I'm tired.

00:30:09.700 I had a long week and I would like to just sit down and watch one ball game without being interrupted.

00:30:17.500 And then I could do whatever.

00:30:19.580 But in this time, it's mine.

00:30:22.620 What did you essentially do?

00:30:24.940 Essentially, you said to her, don't come to me with any of that bullshit.

00:30:30.480 And then these are the same guys who will say, why doesn't my wife ever talk to me?

00:30:36.380 Because every time, and I'm guilty of this in former relationships, every time you do or she does, you blow up.

00:30:46.900 She doesn't know what version of you she's getting.

00:30:49.140 Is she getting the nice, kind, respectful, masculine, manly guy?

00:30:53.760 Or is she getting the immature child who's agitated, pissed off, drunk, whatever?

00:31:00.480 And why would she come to you?

00:31:03.640 Now, if she said this, let me give you, paint a different scenario.

00:31:06.960 She comes to you and says, you know, last weekend was hard for me.

00:31:11.360 Like, I really wanted to go out and work in the yard together.

00:31:14.480 And I had big plans.

00:31:16.000 And I even talked to you about them throughout the week.

00:31:18.040 And then the first thing you did on Saturday morning is we slept in and then you watched the ball game.

00:31:23.900 And by the time you were done, it was like two in the afternoon.

00:31:26.420 And we didn't really have as much time as I would have liked to get this thing done.

00:31:31.540 Now, listen to this instead.

00:31:33.980 Hey, you know what?

00:31:35.120 Hey, I'm sorry.

00:31:35.840 I didn't realize that that was that big of a priority to you.

00:31:41.100 But I can see that it is.

00:31:44.360 So let's next weekend, let's come up with a plan.

00:31:49.180 Because there is a big game that I would like to watch.

00:31:52.040 It's important to me.

00:31:53.220 And I would like to watch that.

00:31:54.380 And it'll take about two hours of my time.

00:31:56.440 It's at one o'clock next weekend.

00:31:59.300 But what if we got up early and we had a list of five or six things that we needed to do to get done around the yard?

00:32:06.540 And we did that.

00:32:07.340 And I took a break for an hour or two.

00:32:08.820 And then we came back out and we finished things up.

00:32:10.780 And we finished the night off with grilling in the backyard because the yard looks so good.

00:32:16.100 What do you think?

00:32:19.340 You get what you want, which is to watch the game.

00:32:22.220 She gets what she wants, which is to get the yard done and feel connected to you and feel like she is worth your time.

00:32:28.440 And then you celebrate together.

00:32:30.860 And I think everybody walks away in a much happier situation.

00:32:34.980 And then also you encourage her to talk to you in the future about problems because you're finally being a problem solver, not a problem creator.

00:32:44.220 Yeah.

00:32:44.320 What advice would you give, Chris, Ryan, if she's not even willing to communicate that last Saturday was an upset and that she's just quiet, constantly, never communicates, right?

00:32:59.080 Because, like, I heard this.

00:33:00.320 She's not very confrontational.

00:33:02.720 Maybe said another way, she's not very open and honest about how she feels, which is a red flag for me, period.

00:33:09.940 I'd be like.

00:33:10.540 It would be for me, too.

00:33:11.720 Yeah, like, you know, any advice would you give, Chris, to around getting her to speak up and be more communicative around how she's feeling about things where she may not at all?

00:33:27.020 There's a book that I'm reading right now with my girlfriend.

00:33:30.900 It's called His Needs, Her Needs.

00:33:32.580 And in that book, he outlines 10 really crucial things that every person needs out of a relationship.

00:33:39.580 And openness and honesty is one of those things.

00:33:42.360 And then you're to take those 10 things and list as a priority.

00:33:45.200 So where hers might be affection, mine might be admiration, which is more synonymous with respect.

00:33:53.580 So that's a little bit of a difference between her and I and our relationship.

00:33:57.400 So I know that affection is really important.

00:33:59.960 And she knows that admiration, again, respect, is important to me.

00:34:03.620 And so we can cater our communication the way we work together based on that.

00:34:07.980 Openness and honesty is one of those things.

00:34:09.700 And so you have to ask yourself in a new relationship, is this somebody who's even capable of it?

00:34:14.760 Yeah.

00:34:15.800 Because if you're in a new relationship, if you're in an existing relationship, you have to work through it.

00:34:19.640 If you're in a brand new relationship, you don't have to.

00:34:22.300 But let's just, for the sake of argument, say that she's capable, she's willing, she has the capacity to do it, and you really have a good connection with her.

00:34:34.200 What I would do is I would just ask her open-ended questions.

00:34:37.980 Hey, babe.

00:34:40.100 Yesterday, or last week, this weekend, I would do this tonight.

00:34:44.200 This weekend, I feel a little bad if I'm being honest.

00:34:48.980 I feel like I kind of capitalized the weekend, and I spent three or four hours watching games, and, man, the stuff around the house didn't get done.

00:34:55.680 I know you asked me to mow the lawn.

00:34:58.500 How do you feel about the weekend?

00:35:00.840 That's the open-ended question.

00:35:02.480 So acknowledgement, right?

00:35:04.320 I acknowledge.

00:35:05.020 I know.

00:35:05.500 I know.

00:35:06.480 And then open-ended question.

00:35:07.500 How do you feel about the weekend?

00:35:08.880 And she might say something very passive because she's not confrontational.

00:35:12.960 She'd be like, it was okay.

00:35:14.920 Here's what you do.

00:35:15.960 A little bit of press.

00:35:17.920 I know you said it was okay.

00:35:19.760 And I know that you are probably okay with dealing with it, but I'm feeling like it wasn't okay.

00:35:30.480 I'm feeling that way.

00:35:31.640 And so I imagine that you're probably feeling somewhat of that, too.

00:35:36.860 Was there anything in particular that really bothered you about the way I did or did not show up?

00:35:43.720 Another open-ended question.

00:35:44.780 You were lazy ass all weekend.

00:35:46.460 The yard looks like shit.

00:35:49.120 Yeah.

00:35:49.700 Right.

00:35:50.060 But isn't that what he's asking for?

00:35:53.960 Yeah.

00:35:54.520 Absolutely.

00:35:56.000 You got to get her there.

00:35:57.740 And then when you get her there, because you're leading as a man, so then when you get her there, don't blow up.

00:36:03.520 So she's like, yeah, you were lazy.

00:36:04.740 You're a piece of shit.

00:36:05.300 Whatever.

00:36:05.940 Say, well, you're wrong.

00:36:07.400 This is stupid.

00:36:08.040 Okay, you just funded all the great questions that you asked her.

00:36:13.020 So she says, yeah, you were really lazy.

00:36:15.520 I felt like I just had to do the yard work by myself, and I would have liked to spend time together and made the house look nicer.

00:36:24.320 And then your response is to say, you know what?

00:36:28.240 Damn.

00:36:30.540 You're right.

00:36:31.420 I did.

00:36:32.120 I did tell you I was going to do that.

00:36:34.440 Or I would have liked to spend time with you.

00:36:36.880 So another open-ended question, what can we do this week?

00:36:42.220 Or actually, I wouldn't even give an open-ended question next because that's not leading.

00:36:46.340 Leading as a man is, you know what?

00:36:49.480 You're right.

00:36:50.540 Here's what I propose.

00:36:52.280 Tonight, I'm going to take off half an hour early from work.

00:36:56.520 I'm going to be home at 5 o'clock instead of 5.30 tonight.

00:37:00.720 And when I get home, I'm going to come in.

00:37:03.380 I'm going to give you a big hug.

00:37:04.520 I'm going to give you a kiss.

00:37:05.380 And the first thing I'm going to do is mow that lawn.

00:37:08.220 And I'm going to get it looking pristine.

00:37:11.060 Can you go get us some steaks for dinner tonight?

00:37:13.160 And we'll throw those on the barbecue after the lawn is mowed.

00:37:18.640 That's, I think, how a man would handle it.

00:37:21.420 Yeah.

00:37:22.140 I like it.

00:37:22.580 Robbie Luffell, how do you make meals for kids when there's always one kid that hates it and won't eat it?

00:37:30.600 I've got three kids, 11, 13, and 15, and there's always one dissenter, and it's so frustrating and defeating.

00:37:37.140 I don't care.

00:37:39.140 I don't care.

00:37:40.100 They're kids.

00:37:40.540 You're going to eat it.

00:37:41.280 I mean, what are you making, dog shit?

00:37:44.200 Like, just eat the food.

00:37:47.620 And I don't have time.

00:37:49.320 I've got four kids.

00:37:50.440 Like, I don't have time to be making separate meals.

00:37:53.660 No way.

00:37:54.740 You're going to eat the food that I made you.

00:37:56.840 If you don't like broccoli, then you're going to eat two instead of four.

00:37:59.900 You know, I can negotiate with terrorists a little bit.

00:38:02.240 Sure.

00:38:03.280 And then tomorrow, you get to pick.

00:38:05.880 Hey, look.

00:38:06.520 Yeah.

00:38:06.820 Eat all your food tonight.

00:38:07.760 I know it's not your favorite.

00:38:09.100 It's not going to be.

00:38:09.940 This is life.

00:38:11.040 Tomorrow, you get to pick the meal.

00:38:13.160 Yeah.

00:38:13.520 It's fuel.

00:38:14.640 Well, I mean, and we constantly, like, our typical, in fact, this happened last night.

00:38:19.220 It's like, I don't like this too much.

00:38:21.000 I'm like, I looked at his bowl, and I'm like, the broccoli and the chicken are non-negotiables.

00:38:26.220 Yeah.

00:38:27.020 The noodles, nah, those are carbs anyway.

00:38:29.400 So if you don't like those, but the broccoli and the chicken, you got to eat.

00:38:33.060 And we also have a rule, like, you have to have, you have to try it.

00:38:37.360 And then if they're like, oh, I really don't like it, you're like, that's fine.

00:38:40.900 Breakfast is a little ways from now.

00:38:43.800 So, you know, if you want to intermittent fast until morning, that's okay too.

00:38:48.760 You can do that.

00:38:49.900 That's your choice.

00:38:50.380 You can do that.

00:38:51.240 Yeah.

00:38:52.300 That's good.

00:38:53.240 Face buds change all the time.

00:38:54.740 So we force our kids to, like, constantly keep trying.

00:38:57.620 You have to try.

00:38:59.000 Otherwise, they won't know.

00:39:01.600 My kids don't like tomatoes.

00:39:03.560 I like tomatoes.

00:39:04.660 So if I make a salad for dinner, I'm going to put tomatoes in it because I like tomatoes.

00:39:09.980 And you know what they could do?

00:39:11.800 Pick the tomatoes out.

00:39:14.280 Yeah.

00:39:15.480 And that's because tomatoes are like, okay, so eat the carrots, eat the sprouts, eat the mushrooms, eat the whatever.

00:39:20.860 But the tomatoes, it's fine.

00:39:22.720 It's not a big deal.

00:39:23.400 So, I don't really think this one's a really hard.

00:39:27.980 Like, you're going to eat it.

00:39:28.940 You're going to like it.

00:39:29.940 And you're going to, or you're going to be quiet about it.

00:39:32.180 And then tomorrow you can pick the meal.

00:39:33.440 And that's just how it works.

00:39:34.680 And I would say there's maybe another issue here is, like, maybe there is an opportunity to teach some principles.

00:39:40.420 Like, sacrifice.

00:39:41.480 You know, like, hey, guess what?

00:39:43.460 The world doesn't revolve around you.

00:39:45.980 There's six of us at the dinner table right now.

00:39:48.580 And so, yeah, we struck out on this one.

00:39:51.660 And so what?

00:39:53.320 Welcome to life.

00:39:54.900 And so, tomorrow you get to pick one that you like.

00:39:57.140 And you know what?

00:39:57.640 One of your siblings is probably not going to like it.

00:40:00.180 And it just is what it is.

00:40:02.500 Or I like what you said.

00:40:05.020 We have a principle, too.

00:40:06.280 It's like, you don't get to say you don't like it if you've never tried it.

00:40:09.740 Yeah.

00:40:10.540 So if I make something and you're like, oh, it looks gross.

00:40:13.320 I'm like, it might look gross.

00:40:14.480 But guess what?

00:40:15.120 You're going to try it.

00:40:16.340 They already know because that's a hard and fast rule that we have.

00:40:19.040 And they know it.

00:40:19.920 I don't even have to fight them on it anymore.

00:40:21.860 They're like, yeah.

00:40:22.740 In fact, they'll police themselves.

00:40:25.120 And they think it's funny because, you know, my youngest might have to try something he doesn't like.

00:40:29.840 And everybody else knows it's good.

00:40:31.180 And they're like, ha-ha, you have to eat it because we did, too.

00:40:34.120 It's just part of life.

00:40:35.980 Yeah.

00:40:36.600 Totally agree.

00:40:37.780 All right.

00:40:38.120 Mike and Dorfer.

00:40:41.340 Hypothetical scenario.

00:40:42.460 You only have time to execute on one of your four battle plan tactics today.

00:40:47.220 Which one and why?

00:40:48.480 I already know your answer, I think.

00:40:50.640 You do?

00:40:52.440 Yeah.

00:40:53.400 What's your non-negotiable out of the four?

00:40:57.020 I mean, if I could only do one, I would say reach out to my kids every day.

00:41:04.840 You make me look bad.

00:41:06.320 My non-negotiable is the physical.

00:41:09.540 I'm like, no, that happens no matter what because everything else.

00:41:13.540 It's different.

00:41:14.460 That's not a tactic.

00:41:16.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:18.120 Okay.

00:41:18.940 Fair enough.

00:41:19.320 It's not one of my tactics.

00:41:20.660 So we need a little context here.

00:41:23.320 Yeah.

00:41:24.260 Okay.

00:41:25.100 So we have our battle plan and then there's tactics.

00:41:29.260 And those tactics are in one of each of four quadrants.

00:41:32.260 So calibration, mental, spiritual, emotional health, connection, relationships with kids, condition, physical health, and contribution, becoming a man of value.

00:41:43.720 We don't put tactics on there.

00:41:45.580 Tactics are things you do on a daily basis in order to achieve those objectives that you've identified.

00:41:50.480 But we don't put things in there that you do.

00:41:52.860 So like if it was –

00:41:54.820 It's the thing you're striving to start doing.

00:41:57.000 Right.

00:41:57.280 The thing that you're trying to improve better on.

00:41:59.240 Yeah.

00:41:59.620 Yeah.

00:42:00.040 So if you asked me, did you brush your teeth today and did you put that down as a tactic?

00:42:03.840 The answer is no because I brush my teeth every day.

00:42:07.020 So that's not really something I need to like work hard at.

00:42:11.620 But making sure that I'm in contact with my kids in meaningful and significant ways when they're not with me because I'm divorced.

00:42:18.100 So when they're not with – if they were with me every day, that would not be an issue.

00:42:21.600 But they're with me half of the time.

00:42:23.220 So when they're with their mom, I still want to communicate with them.

00:42:25.760 And so I go out of my way to be able to do that.

00:42:28.500 If you're going to ask me whether or not I should be physical today, now look, I woke up today and I didn't go to the gym.

00:42:34.320 I didn't.

00:42:34.720 But I am going to be contacting my kids.

00:42:38.940 In fact, I've already reached out to two of them.

00:42:41.220 And I've got plans for this evening that are physical in nature even though it's not a workout.

00:42:45.680 So that's why I made that decision.

00:42:48.060 But yeah, it's the kids.

00:42:50.880 Sorry you hate your kids, Kip.

00:42:52.320 I didn't know you liked jujitsu more than your kids.

00:42:54.880 I would not have thought that about you.

00:42:56.480 Yeah.

00:42:56.820 Good thing you don't listen to this.

00:43:01.180 No, it's all just dependent on your own plan.

00:43:04.420 And that's the beauty of the battle plan is that it's reliant on you.

00:43:08.080 What are you trying to accomplish?

00:43:10.380 So for me, now if you're asking which of the quadrants is most important generally, broadly, generally, condition, the physical realm.

00:43:20.400 Of course.

00:43:21.400 Because that plays into everything else.

00:43:23.100 It kind of sets the tone.

00:43:24.100 Yeah, totally.

00:43:25.160 All right.

00:43:25.400 We kind of like a one, two.

00:43:27.280 I'm going to merge two questions together if that's okay.

00:43:30.700 So Justin Van Zahn, his question is, could you walk us through the Order of Man funnel and how you were able to monetize your podcast audience?

00:43:40.460 So that's question number one.

00:43:41.540 Question number two is from, I'm scrolling down here, Danny Skolnick.

00:43:48.980 And he says, refresh our memories on how the IC came about, because I think these are kind of one and the same.

00:43:55.040 How did it start?

00:43:56.440 What was your initial vision of the IC and why?

00:43:59.700 And also, and he has the secondary question of how did I get involved?

00:44:03.120 Did we already know each other?

00:44:04.240 But I think you can probably answer both those questions in one.

00:44:08.040 Well, I can answer the last part.

00:44:09.280 How did you get involved?

00:44:10.260 I'm still trying to figure it out.

00:44:11.840 I don't know why or how I got kids involved.

00:44:14.480 And now he's like a stray dog that you don't want to just dump somewhere.

00:44:19.840 It'd be really awkward to get rid of him now.

00:44:24.040 So we just kind of keep around.

00:44:25.720 We're like, dude, will you just do a Wednesday show with us, I guess?

00:44:29.080 Meanwhile, the whole family's like, why do we even have this dog?

00:44:32.400 Because it's like, yeah, it'd be weird if we got rid of him.

00:44:34.720 Everybody hates him.

00:44:35.940 We don't feed him.

00:44:36.900 We don't take him for walks.

00:44:38.060 He just shows up and wags his tail.

00:44:40.220 And we're like, okay.

00:44:41.000 And we pet him every once in a while and he's good to go.

00:44:45.200 That's so funny.

00:44:47.060 Well, so I'm going to try to condense this story.

00:44:50.260 So I started Order of Man in 2015.

00:44:52.820 And I found a lot of early success with the amount of tension that we were receiving.

00:44:58.560 And so I realized I was on to something.

00:45:01.080 And I'm fast forwarding through a lot here.

00:45:03.600 But I realized we were on to something.

00:45:06.000 And I was running my financial planning practice at the time.

00:45:09.220 And I realized that every single week I was taking more and more time and dedicating it to Order of Man instead of Sitica Financial, which was my financial planning practice.

00:45:19.460 And my ex-wife said, hey, I love that you're doing this.

00:45:22.820 You seem to be happy.

00:45:23.740 But you're really taking away from family household income because you're not focusing on the financial planning practice as much as you were.

00:45:30.660 And she was right, to her credit.

00:45:33.020 And I was listening to a podcast.

00:45:35.760 And I believe the gentleman's name is Pat Flynn.

00:45:38.300 And it's funny.

00:45:39.260 Side note.

00:45:39.820 I saw Pat Flynn on YouTube a couple of weeks ago because my kids were watching him.

00:45:47.300 I'm like, that's Pat Flynn.

00:45:48.680 Pat Flynn is instrumental in getting me into the podcasting world.

00:45:53.140 Does he know that?

00:45:55.180 Probably not.

00:45:56.080 I've never talked with him.

00:45:58.040 And I've tried to reach out to him.

00:45:59.320 I've never talked to them.

00:46:00.140 But I saw him, and they were watching him, and he runs a thriving, of all things, a thriving Pokemon YouTube channel.

00:46:10.980 It's unbelievable.

00:46:12.380 I'm like, that's Pat Flynn.

00:46:13.680 He has a beard now, and he does Pokemon.

00:46:15.880 But that's the guy who helped me get into the business.

00:46:17.840 He doesn't even know it.

00:46:19.580 Did he even do Pokemon back in the day?

00:46:21.620 No.

00:46:22.280 What was he doing back in the day that influenced you, though?

00:46:25.800 Well, he had a podcast course on how to start a podcast and how to grow a movement.

00:46:30.700 That's what he was doing.

00:46:32.220 Got it.

00:46:32.480 Yeah.

00:46:33.860 That's funny.

00:46:34.860 I was listening to a podcast that he was doing with a guest, and the guest said,

00:46:38.960 the best thing you could do is do a 12-week course, and you just charge for it.

00:46:41.820 I'm like, okay, that sounds good.

00:46:44.000 So I put together a 12-week course.

00:46:46.360 I called it the Iron Council, and I knew that we were going to do six topics, one every two weeks.

00:46:55.080 to cover the 12 weeks.

00:46:57.100 Yeah.

00:46:57.320 And I knew what the six topics were because I had done a YouTube video earlier on 10 things to be a man or something like that.

00:47:04.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:47:05.280 Got it.

00:47:05.760 So I knew what they were going to be, and I only put together the curriculum or the outline for one of them, the first one, not the rest of them.

00:47:14.880 And then I just, you know me well enough now at this point, Kip, just sent it.

00:47:18.140 Built it.

00:47:19.040 Yeah.

00:47:19.340 Yep.

00:47:20.100 And I had one assignment done.

00:47:22.400 I'm like, because if nobody signs up, why build six?

00:47:25.780 Like, nobody might sign up.

00:47:27.420 I'll just do the one.

00:47:28.320 I don't have to waste any time.

00:47:30.020 So I built this one assignment way before AI.

00:47:33.100 So I actually built it, okay?

00:47:34.720 It was my creation.

00:47:36.000 And I put it out there, and I said, look, guys, we had 1,000 guys in our Facebook group.

00:47:42.000 I said, look, guys, we're doing this thing.

00:47:44.780 I have room for 12 guys.

00:47:46.600 We sold it out overnight.

00:47:48.120 Josh, excuse me, not Josh.

00:47:49.660 I'm thinking about his son.

00:47:50.660 Mark Gabloski is the first person to sign up.

00:47:53.640 I only thought about his son because his son actually reached out to me over the weekend

00:47:58.060 because he had some questions about life.

00:48:01.180 I thought that was pretty cool, full circle, because Mark is the first person to join the

00:48:05.720 Iron Council.

00:48:06.960 So we sold the 12 spots at 100 bucks.

00:48:09.020 I made 1,200 bucks.

00:48:10.180 Not anything to write home about, but it opened my mind to the possibility of this actually

00:48:16.380 being a viable business.

00:48:17.900 And now we've had over 10,000 men go through the Iron Council.

00:48:23.220 I had an idea of doing in-person events, book, courses, programs, coaching, affiliate marketing,

00:48:35.180 and it all just kind of got pieced together over time.

00:48:38.080 The interesting thing is I was doing this before everybody else was doing it.

00:48:43.120 Yeah.

00:48:43.300 I mean, I've been in the business for, at this point, in the business of podcasts,

00:48:47.900 podcasting for over 11 years, 10 doing Order of Man specifically.

00:48:52.000 10 years ago, people didn't know how to monetize their podcast.

00:48:55.780 Some people have.

00:48:56.400 Well, they weren't even listening to podcasts 10 years ago, not very many.

00:48:59.920 Because I would meet people and they're like, what do you do for work?

00:49:02.280 I'm like, I have a podcast.

00:49:03.240 They're like, what's that?

00:49:05.720 You couldn't walk down the street without anybody not knowing what a podcast is, let alone

00:49:10.520 not having their own podcast now.

00:49:13.440 Yeah.

00:49:13.720 So it's been a wild ride.

00:49:16.620 But yeah, let me, I'm curious about something.

00:49:19.720 So if, when you first opened up the 12-week Iron Council, were you like, I have to have

00:49:26.920 all 12 seats filled?

00:49:28.800 Or would you have done it even if just two guys signed up?

00:49:32.720 I would have done it with one guy.

00:49:34.680 Yeah.

00:49:34.940 Just to get the rep, at least, worst case.

00:49:38.100 Well, not only just the rep, but I made a promise to that guy that I would put together

00:49:43.740 this course.

00:49:45.020 Yeah, yeah.

00:49:45.740 We had a, okay, so here's another example.

00:49:48.900 We had a event go a little sideways earlier this year.

00:49:54.780 I mean, we had keynote speakers drop out.

00:49:58.980 We had business partners drop out.

00:50:02.200 We had venue changes.

00:50:04.600 It ended up being more for certain things.

00:50:06.620 And we, I mean, it went sideways quick.

00:50:09.300 Yeah.

00:50:09.700 And I sent an email.

00:50:11.680 We had probably at the time, 40 people signed up for it.

00:50:16.600 And I sent an email.

00:50:18.360 And I could show you the email.

00:50:20.360 And I said, look, guys, this event is going horribly wrong.

00:50:25.960 We have had headliners drop out.

00:50:28.520 We've had business partners drop out.

00:50:30.920 We've got to change the venue over here.

00:50:32.980 If you want in, we'll put together as me and Larry Hagner with the Dad Edge.

00:50:38.580 He said, if you want in, Larry and I are fully committed.

00:50:41.340 And we'll have all of you.

00:50:42.420 If you want out, you have 10 days to decide if you want out.

00:50:46.120 Because the headliners aren't showing up.

00:50:47.620 Business partners.

00:50:48.400 Yeah.

00:50:48.980 Like, that's fair.

00:50:49.760 That's a reasonable offer.

00:50:52.080 And we did.

00:50:52.820 We had guys bail.

00:50:54.400 You know, we had, I don't know, 10, 15 guys.

00:50:56.800 They were like, nah, I don't want to come anymore.

00:50:58.180 No hard feelings.

00:50:58.920 No hard feelings at all.

00:51:00.680 But in that email, I said this.

00:51:02.200 And I'll never forget it.

00:51:03.160 Because it's one of the most important things that we as men need to know.

00:51:06.640 And learn and implement.

00:51:08.220 And I said, I don't care if one of you shows up.

00:51:12.360 If everybody out of the, let's say, 40 guys, if 39 of them request a refund, I'll pay them all back.

00:51:19.440 100% of their ticket price.

00:51:21.700 And you and me, I'll buy a cabin somewhere outside of St. Louis.

00:51:26.440 And you and I will do three days of one-to-one coaching.

00:51:30.120 And we're going to have a kick-ass weekend.

00:51:31.660 I'll do it with one.

00:51:32.800 I don't care.

00:51:33.400 Because that's the promise that I made.

00:51:35.860 I would lose money on that deal for sure.

00:51:39.460 But I would honor it because that's what I think men do.

00:51:43.620 Yeah.

00:51:44.160 Love it.

00:51:46.040 All right.

00:51:46.600 John Frosty McDormand.

00:51:49.440 What's the biggest hard-fought lesson you've learned recently that you think others could benefit from?

00:51:56.100 Biggest hard-fought lesson you've learned recently?

00:52:01.220 How do I narrow it down to one?

00:52:07.180 I've learned a lot about just being a man in a relationship.

00:52:11.060 You know, I feel like I've got a lot of other things locked in.

00:52:17.980 I feel like I do a lot of other things right.

00:52:20.380 But, man, I haven't been great in that department.

00:52:23.100 And I could very easily just sit here and say I never had a great role model or example.

00:52:28.060 And that's a reason, you know.

00:52:30.160 And, Kip, you and I have talked about reasons and excuses in the past.

00:52:34.260 A reason is legitimate.

00:52:35.660 It's, hey, this was a reason and therefore I have to change.

00:52:38.100 An excuse is this is why and there's nothing I can do about it.

00:52:41.500 It's the difference between a period at the end of the sentence and a comma.

00:52:45.940 I dealt with this, comma, so I have to do that.

00:52:49.120 I dealt with this, period.

00:52:52.640 And so I didn't have a great example of what that looked like.

00:52:56.280 And that, in my later years, as I'm in my middle ages now, which is so weird to say.

00:53:01.660 I had an optometrist appointment the other day.

00:53:03.520 I'm like, why am I going to the optometrist?

00:53:05.860 And the doctor told me it's because you're getting old.

00:53:08.620 He literally said that, because you're getting old.

00:53:10.040 I'm like, I'm not old.

00:53:11.220 I'm 44 years old.

00:53:12.780 And he said, yeah, you're middle-aged.

00:53:15.240 That's old.

00:53:15.780 You're a middle-aged man.

00:53:17.820 And I'm like, well, how old are you?

00:53:19.660 And he's like, I'm 30.

00:53:21.080 I'm like, no, shut up, then.

00:53:23.220 Anyways, I think I've learned a lot about relationships and the way that I've showed up.

00:53:35.220 And I've tried to eliminate the excuses and acknowledge the reasons.

00:53:39.720 And I think that if more men learn some of the hard lessons that I've learned,

00:53:44.360 specifically through my divorce and breakdown of that relationship,

00:53:47.420 I'm in a really great relationship now.

00:53:51.720 And I'm excited about where that's headed and the growth that her and I have had.

00:53:56.840 But I couldn't be in that if I didn't learn those hard-fought lessons of showing up,

00:54:03.480 working as a partnership.

00:54:04.540 I think to be specific, and I'm going to avoid the V word of vulnerability,

00:54:12.080 but I am learning to be, to our previous question, more open and honest with direction.

00:54:22.600 And that's really important for men.

00:54:24.300 Like, I don't want to vomit all of my feelings.

00:54:27.960 But I can say, hey, I'm struggling with this thing,

00:54:30.260 and therefore I'm going to do this, this, and this.

00:54:32.860 And then when she sees me do this, this, and this, it doesn't undermine.

00:54:37.280 I think the vulnerability conversation is one of like, well, just tell her how you feel.

00:54:42.720 That doesn't do anything.

00:54:44.020 It undermines credibility.

00:54:46.140 And as I process this a little bit more,

00:54:49.120 people get mad anytime I fight back on the word vulnerability

00:54:51.800 because it's a bit of a sacred cow in culture today.

00:54:55.420 The vulnerability is not the solution.

00:54:58.180 It's not the end.

00:55:00.100 You don't get anywhere with it.

00:55:02.200 Yeah.

00:55:02.740 It's the symptom.

00:55:03.780 It's the symptom.

00:55:04.820 It's like you're feeling vulnerable because there's a weakness in your game.

00:55:09.660 So of course you feel vulnerable.

00:55:11.940 You should feel vulnerable.

00:55:13.360 That's the symptom.

00:55:14.500 That's not the answer.

00:55:16.760 Okay.

00:55:17.020 But people think it's the prescription.

00:55:19.320 Like, well, just be vulnerable.

00:55:20.240 No, no, no, no, no.

00:55:21.420 You already are vulnerable.

00:55:23.620 Yeah.

00:55:24.160 Because they're outsourcing.

00:55:25.160 They're hoping to fix it.

00:55:26.740 Yeah.

00:55:26.980 They're hoping that the being open and vulnerable outsources the resolve to someone else.

00:55:34.380 It's a lack of taking ownership, right?

00:55:36.240 If I'm vulnerable, I expose it to you.

00:55:38.920 And then I sit back and, oh, Ryan's going to fix it for me now, right?

00:55:42.920 It's like, no, no, no.

00:55:43.940 That's not the intent, right?

00:55:46.380 Well, think about this.

00:55:48.200 Let me give you an example.

00:55:49.360 And this is a real world example.

00:55:50.960 I see this every day from guys.

00:55:53.260 Let's say that you lost your job for one reason or the other.

00:55:58.060 Maybe it's now outsourced.

00:55:59.580 Maybe AI took it over.

00:56:00.860 Maybe it's obsolete.

00:56:01.680 Maybe you just weren't doing a good job and it lets you go.

00:56:05.180 And you get behind 60 days on your mortgage payment.

00:56:10.080 Are you feeling vulnerable?

00:56:11.920 Yeah, I would think.

00:56:13.680 And then you go to your wife.

00:56:15.240 You've been hiding it.

00:56:17.940 And you go to your wife and you say, hey, I need to talk with you about something.

00:56:23.120 And I just need you to forgive me because I'm being vulnerable.

00:56:26.300 I'm being open with you.

00:56:29.560 I lost my job 60 days ago.

00:56:33.360 And we're behind 60 days on the mortgage.

00:56:35.340 But it's okay because I'm being vulnerable with you.

00:56:38.720 And now you know the real me.

00:56:41.540 Do you think she's going to say, oh, yeah, you're right.

00:56:43.960 Everything's good.

00:56:44.480 No, she's going to say, how are we going to make the mortgage payment?

00:56:49.720 Now, if you lost your job and you came home and you said, hon, bad news, bad news.

00:56:56.140 Brace yourself.

00:56:57.280 Sit down.

00:56:58.720 This is rough.

00:56:59.480 But we're going to get through it.

00:57:00.380 It's going to be okay.

00:57:01.060 And you just sit down.

00:57:03.340 And she sits down and you say, I lost my job today.

00:57:05.860 I got laid off.

00:57:06.740 I didn't even see it coming.

00:57:08.100 But you know what?

00:57:09.800 We got six months of savings in the bank.

00:57:13.580 Okay.

00:57:13.780 So we're covered.

00:57:15.900 Maybe tighten up on the groceries a little.

00:57:17.760 Maybe the discretionary spending.

00:57:19.160 Let's reign that in a little bit.

00:57:21.240 Mortgage is fine.

00:57:21.940 We're good.

00:57:22.280 This afternoon after I got laid off, I made five calls.

00:57:28.140 I've got two interviews with some close people just because of some networking I've been doing.

00:57:33.620 I've got two interviews tomorrow.

00:57:35.120 And I just want, I just want you to know it's going to be okay.

00:57:39.460 I'm, I'm nervous.

00:57:41.000 I'm very scared.

00:57:42.300 I didn't see this coming.

00:57:43.760 In fact, I feel a little bit blindsided.

00:57:48.580 I feel like people don't, at my work, they don't respect what I, that's how I'm feeling.

00:57:54.500 But it's okay.

00:57:55.980 Because this is what we're going to do to solve it.

00:57:59.420 That's the proper way to approach vulnerability.

00:58:02.560 But too often people don't do that.

00:58:04.400 They just get into like, well, it's like, just love me.

00:58:07.960 I'm being vulnerable.

00:58:08.660 I'm being open.

00:58:09.420 Like, why can't you just accept that?

00:58:11.100 Because that doesn't pay the mortgage payment.

00:58:15.340 Agree or disagree on that, Kip?

00:58:17.220 Totally agree.

00:58:18.380 Totally agree.

00:58:19.480 I mean, not resolving anything.

00:58:20.900 You're just hoping that someone's going to, it's okay, honey.

00:58:25.580 I respect you.

00:58:26.460 I'm not concerned.

00:58:27.480 That's what they're hoping for.

00:58:28.980 But the reality, that's not what's going to happen.

00:58:31.880 No, not at all.

00:58:34.020 You can wish for that all you want, but it's not going to happen that way.

00:58:37.900 So to go back to Frosty's question, Frosty's is his nickname in the Iron Council.

00:58:42.700 So to go back to Frosty's question, I'm learning how to do that correctly.

00:58:49.080 Because before, I wouldn't even tell her.

00:58:52.220 I would just fix shit.

00:58:54.560 Yeah.

00:58:54.800 And not bring them along or let them know where you're at.

00:58:59.560 And then do that.

00:59:00.000 We do that because I think we do that for righteous, like noble reasons.

00:59:04.020 I don't want her to worry about it.

00:59:05.420 I don't want her to worry about me.

00:59:06.760 I don't want her to worry.

00:59:07.740 Like, I got it.

00:59:08.320 I got this under control.

00:59:09.260 And you might.

00:59:10.140 But you know what?

00:59:10.880 I'm figuring out she actually wants to be in it with you.

00:59:17.660 She's with you.

00:59:18.680 She wants to be in it with you.

00:59:20.180 She doesn't want to be with a bumbling buffoon.

00:59:22.900 But she wants to be with a man who understands that there's problems in life, that he's not perfect, that he doesn't have everything figured out.

00:59:31.840 But damn if he's not willing to create a solution and come up with opportunities for growth, even in the wake of things that go sideways.

00:59:40.120 Yeah, totally.

00:59:42.580 That's a hard-fought lesson for me.

00:59:45.160 Do you have one that stands out?

00:59:46.540 Yeah, I do.

00:59:47.400 I mean, it's the balance.

00:59:49.780 Let me see if I can articulate this well.

00:59:51.680 It's the balance between coaching and guiding and honoring choice.

01:00:00.660 I feel confident around a number of items, like when it comes to coaching or parenting.

01:00:08.240 And I'm tempted to believe that because I see the clear path, that not only absolutely this person should do it, but worst case, I'll push them in that direction.

01:00:21.680 And worst case, I look to – and I won't admit this, right?

01:00:28.800 Like it's not clear to me or it's not the intent.

01:00:31.420 But I'll look to course someone into taking action on that path and not honoring their own choice in it.

01:00:39.780 And that's really rooted in the idea that, like that's where growth is, is actually in the ownership and the choice of the individual.

01:00:49.040 And it's hard.

01:00:50.160 It's a hard thing to do.

01:00:51.480 I – we've done this with our three older kids when they're teenagers and I'm seeing it even in the workplace where I can illuminate, I can present, and that's about it.

01:01:05.440 And if Ryan is open to the idea to receive it and he's in the place where he sees the value, awesome.

01:01:13.620 And if he doesn't, that's okay too.

01:01:17.360 It just is.

01:01:18.880 And it's a very – and we talk about it.

01:01:22.460 Like it's not a new principle, right?

01:01:23.780 We talk about tugboat versus the lighthouse, but man, it sure is hard, right, not to have loaded expectations on the actions of other individuals and realize that your role is to illuminate and create possibilities for others to choose for themselves.

01:01:40.980 It's powerful.

01:01:42.000 I actually have a couple of questions for you.

01:01:44.000 So I reached out to you last week about a pressing issue that I had, a personal issue that I had, and you gave me a set of three questions.

01:01:54.040 And I like how you did that because you allowed me to come up with the answers to my own problem.

01:01:59.520 And I did pretty quickly actually after you gave me those three questions.

01:02:02.360 Yeah, I was going to ask you how it went.

01:02:04.520 It hasn't yet, but it will this week because that conversation is coming up.

01:02:10.700 But I came up with the answer pretty quickly.

01:02:12.540 When you asked me those three – or you gave me those three questions.

01:02:16.840 Okay, so I have a couple of questions for you.

01:02:19.200 Okay.

01:02:19.360 And I think these are questions that you might ask yourself.

01:02:21.920 Okay, number one, what are you making it mean about yourself when people make decisions counter to what you think they should do?

01:02:31.880 Yeah, totally.

01:02:32.880 Well, it means my default.

01:02:35.860 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:36.220 I want to know what you would – your default.

01:02:37.920 Yeah, my default is – my default is that I'm not impactful enough in this person's life to be able to guide them.

01:02:48.700 So I internalize it negative first with me.

01:02:52.800 And then sometimes I'll make it about they're wrong and I'm right.

01:02:56.660 And what would like a more elevated, sophisticated answer to that question look like?

01:03:05.360 Just is.

01:03:07.320 Just is.

01:03:08.100 Like it is what it is?

01:03:09.860 Yeah.

01:03:10.760 I mean I – and I like to challenge my own thought, right?

01:03:15.260 Like maybe I'm – maybe I'm off.

01:03:18.360 Maybe this isn't the ideal recommendation.

01:03:21.700 But I also realize that based upon where they are, is it in alignment to where they are and what they need based upon where they are, right?

01:03:32.520 We've talked about this so many times.

01:03:34.160 It's like, oh, what advice would you give yourself when you're 20 years old?

01:03:37.560 It's like, dude, I wouldn't have listened to me at 20.

01:03:40.500 Totally.

01:03:41.480 Like even if it's profound, I wouldn't have.

01:03:44.020 Why?

01:03:44.280 Because I wasn't in the right state of mind.

01:03:46.060 You would have said some foo-foo-y weird thing and I would have been like, that guy is an idiot.

01:03:51.820 Doesn't mean the advice wasn't –

01:03:53.020 People still say that, by the way.

01:03:53.840 Yeah.

01:03:54.340 Yeah.

01:03:54.980 Doesn't mean the advice wasn't sound.

01:03:58.280 You know what I mean?

01:03:59.140 So are we even in the position to receive it?

01:04:01.840 Yeah.

01:04:03.240 My next question is how do you respond – we'll take two variations of this but maybe the natural way.

01:04:09.960 How do you respond when people don't do what you think is in their best interest?

01:04:17.140 How would you have responded in the past?

01:04:20.420 Oh, in the past?

01:04:23.120 Moron.

01:04:25.220 Judgment.

01:04:25.960 Idiot.

01:04:26.520 Judgment.

01:04:27.180 Yeah.

01:04:27.640 Absolute judgment.

01:04:29.420 Yeah.

01:04:30.260 What do you do now?

01:04:32.900 I think now is the same thing.

01:04:34.880 Like I more and more – and this has been like a big lesson for me over the last couple of years.

01:04:41.340 Assume positive intent.

01:04:43.300 Right?

01:04:43.600 Most people do not intentionally do bad at what they're trying to do.

01:04:48.480 No one says, I want to be a bad spouse.

01:04:51.480 No one says, oh, you know, I'm going to show up and just be a horrible father today.

01:04:55.120 No one shows up and says, I'm going to be a bad boss or a bad employee.

01:04:58.560 Most don't.

01:04:59.040 They're doing it for a number of factors.

01:05:02.660 There's usually a number – and there's science around this of what drives people to do what they do.

01:05:09.220 I don't know what that is.

01:05:11.580 So who am I to judge?

01:05:13.060 I like it.

01:05:18.360 I mean I've thought lately too is we do have to be very careful of judging motives.

01:05:23.720 You know, when I post something on social media, maybe it's controversial.

01:05:28.420 People will say, well, Ryan's only doing this because.

01:05:31.480 You have no idea why I'm doing something.

01:05:34.340 You might think you do and you might actually be right in some cases.

01:05:37.620 But it's just luck.

01:05:39.800 Be very careful about judging people's motives.

01:05:42.680 And I like what you're saying.

01:05:44.560 Give people the benefit of the doubt unless – I would say there's a caveat to this.

01:05:48.940 Unless what they're doing is putting you at personal risk or people that you have responsibility for.

01:05:53.880 Right?

01:05:54.040 You don't need to give them the benefit of the doubt.

01:05:55.460 If somebody comes and wants to like fight me, I'm not going to like say, oh, you know, this guy's probably just having a hard day.

01:06:01.900 And I'm going to let him punch me in the face a couple of times.

01:06:04.320 Maybe he'll feel better.

01:06:06.100 Yeah.

01:06:07.680 Yeah.

01:06:08.300 I mean you don't need to do that.

01:06:09.520 Well, and what's great about this too, Ryan, is if you're in a position where you're leading, guess what you can't address?

01:06:18.740 The issue.

01:06:20.540 There's no addressing the issue in quick judgment.

01:06:24.920 Because you're not addressing the root cause.

01:06:29.640 You never will.

01:06:31.080 Oh, it's this person.

01:06:32.300 There's – oh, his intent is this.

01:06:33.980 Okay, got it.

01:06:34.540 So everything else is off the table.

01:06:35.920 You've already decided.

01:06:37.620 Or are you willing to critically think and go, hmm, what's that rooted in?

01:06:43.440 Yeah.

01:06:43.840 Until you do that, you're not addressing shit.

01:06:45.840 And most importantly, you're not taking ownership over the circumstance.

01:06:49.800 You're just a – I love this idea that like someone that judges and persecutes others, they're a victim in a position of authority.

01:06:58.940 They're a victim.

01:07:00.800 They're just in a position of authority so they blame other people for it.

01:07:04.060 That's it.

01:07:05.480 Still a victim.

01:07:06.720 You're not owning anything.

01:07:08.420 Yeah.

01:07:08.580 You're allocating ownership over to someone else.

01:07:12.800 Powerful stuff, man.

01:07:13.720 We had some good questions today.

01:07:15.880 Anything else?

01:07:16.400 Do we have a rapid fire in there or do we need to wrap it up for today?

01:07:19.800 I like – man, I really wanted you to answer this question.

01:07:22.580 So maybe this one really quick if that's okay.

01:07:25.160 Okay.

01:07:25.960 Okay.

01:07:26.440 Lonnie McIntyre, how do you maintain focus and stay on course when the shit hits the fan in multiple areas of life all at once?

01:07:35.240 My tendency over the years has been to pull back and self-soothe with alcohol in times like this.

01:07:40.760 But I don't – but I don't know – but I know that's not the answer.

01:07:46.440 So what advice would you give him?

01:07:47.800 I just – it's such a critical question, man.

01:07:50.220 It is.

01:07:50.920 It's really important.

01:07:51.820 I'm pulling up something real quick here because this is going to help and then I'll paraphrase.

01:07:58.240 So there's – I believe it's an Air Force – retired Air Force colonel named John Boyd.

01:08:03.680 Like I – you guys might need to fact check me on that but I believe that's who it is.

01:08:07.580 Came up with a phrase called the OODA loop.

01:08:10.220 It's an acronym.

01:08:11.060 O-O-D-A.

01:08:11.960 OODA loop.

01:08:13.880 And the phrase is this.

01:08:15.820 Observe, orient, decide, act.

01:08:20.200 So the first thing is that shit hit the fan.

01:08:23.000 Observe.

01:08:24.340 What exactly is happening around me?

01:08:26.300 Is my wife upset?

01:08:28.060 Is my boss upset?

01:08:29.280 Do I have an upset client?

01:08:30.560 Are my kids stuff falling apart?

01:08:31.360 Like dealing in reality almost, right?

01:08:32.880 Like what's going – yeah, what's going on?

01:08:34.680 Like let's really figure this out.

01:08:36.180 I've got this person attacking me here and this person is upset and that person is fired up and we lost money here.

01:08:41.140 Like really observe.

01:08:42.580 And then now we start to orient ourselves.

01:08:44.780 And when I think of orient, what I think of doing in practical terms is to say, okay, I've got seven things that need to get done right now.

01:08:55.620 My wife is mad.

01:08:56.420 My boss is mad.

01:08:57.200 My client is upset.

01:08:58.040 My bank account is in the red.

01:09:00.480 And I've got these seven things.

01:09:02.940 I've already observed all that.

01:09:04.420 I know very well what's going on in my life.

01:09:06.700 And now I need to orient.

01:09:08.200 And orient is about when you think of orientation, think about a compass.

01:09:12.240 Like where do you point the compass?

01:09:13.960 Like I need to get to that point.

01:09:15.820 Let me get my compass.

01:09:16.940 I'm going to orient it north.

01:09:18.320 Okay, I need to go 80 degrees this way.

01:09:21.020 That's what we're talking about.

01:09:22.320 So orient is, okay, my wife's mad.

01:09:25.200 That's probably the first thing.

01:09:28.360 Like what?

01:09:29.760 Okay, she's mad because I'm working too many hours at work.

01:09:33.680 Okay, let's address that.

01:09:35.060 That's number one.

01:09:36.000 Number two is I feel like I'm working too many hours at work, but we got this big project and it's falling apart on us.

01:09:41.240 So that's important.

01:09:42.640 And so you start to prioritize the order in which you need to do things.

01:09:45.780 It's kind of like the adage of how do you eat an elephant?

01:09:48.780 One bite at a time, but you need to figure out which is the first bite.

01:09:53.440 And so I would spend a little bit of time, not indefinitely, especially if you're an overthinker.

01:09:58.820 Overthinkers are notorious for this and they think they're doing something.

01:10:02.400 It's like, congratulations, you're thinking about it.

01:10:04.840 You're on step two.

01:10:05.900 There's four steps.

01:10:08.440 Step two is crucial.

01:10:09.620 I'm not saying that.

01:10:10.420 I'm saying it's a part of the process.

01:10:12.360 It is not the process in and of itself.

01:10:14.240 You're not solving problems by thinking about them.

01:10:18.580 So orient, like, okay, I need, now I need to do this, then this, then this, then this.

01:10:24.360 First thing I need to do, I need to call my wife.

01:10:27.100 I need to put her at comfort.

01:10:28.240 Hey, babe, I know I haven't been honest with you about what time I'm going to get home.

01:10:31.980 I need to be, we're going to talk more about this tonight.

01:10:33.980 I cannot be home until seven o'clock tonight, but I promise you, I'm going to give you all day Saturday and we're going to do our thing.

01:10:40.000 Okay, a little bit of fire put out.

01:10:41.740 That was what needed to happen.

01:10:42.820 Now you go to your boss.

01:10:44.240 Hey, boss, look, business is under, projects falling apart.

01:10:48.860 I get it.

01:10:49.800 Here's what I think we should do.

01:10:51.700 What do you think?

01:10:52.460 Okay, now here's my list of things.

01:10:54.100 And so you start to process in which order.

01:10:56.660 Now you have a lot of things going on and you can start making decisions.

01:11:00.560 And decisions are, where do I prioritize?

01:11:03.940 What people do I need to have in place?

01:11:06.880 I think a lot of that could be delegation.

01:11:09.100 A lot of that could be explanation.

01:11:10.760 Maybe your wife wants you to do all these projects around the house and you're like, hey, baby, I can't do that.

01:11:15.320 I can only do 20% of those things for now.

01:11:17.940 But next month I can do another 20%.

01:11:20.020 And so you start deciding in which order you're going to do it.

01:11:23.260 And then the last is to act.

01:11:24.560 You've got your process, you've got the priorities, you've made decisions, you've got the right people involved, you've looked at what resources need to happen, and now you're going to act on that.

01:11:35.940 And then once you act, this is why it's called a loop, you act, and then you go right back.

01:11:41.160 Did this work?

01:11:42.000 Now we're back in observation.

01:11:43.400 Did this work?

01:11:44.080 What impact did it make with my family?

01:11:46.240 What impact did it make with my business?

01:11:48.060 What impact did it make with my health?

01:11:50.000 And you go through the process again.

01:11:51.780 The OODA loop is powerful.

01:11:52.220 And I feel, would you agree with this, is like one of the issues that people struggle with is in the orientation, they'll lock on to the unmet expectation of what should or should not be, and then they just get stuck.

01:12:06.580 Well, I shouldn't have to deal with this.

01:12:09.900 I shouldn't.

01:12:10.420 And then they like almost like give up because I shouldn't have to, and they don't deal with or like, but the reality is that you are.

01:12:21.960 Here's the facts.

01:12:23.280 This is what's within your realm of control.

01:12:26.180 Deal in the reality of it, but almost people don't want to deal in reality.

01:12:30.680 They want to hold on to their expectations, and then it almost like paralyzes them into taking action.

01:12:36.720 I think you're right that people will say that about I shouldn't have to deal with this.

01:12:43.340 And I agree with you that you have to deal in reality.

01:12:45.480 But the question is, is that first statement even true?

01:12:50.980 Yeah.

01:12:51.600 You let down your wife, and you're telling me you shouldn't have to deal with an angry wife?

01:12:56.860 Yeah, totally.

01:12:58.020 You can even own that.

01:12:59.320 You missed the deadline at work, and you're saying to yourself, man, my boss shouldn't be mad at me.

01:13:04.200 Like, he should just understand.

01:13:05.460 What?

01:13:06.380 You're the one that missed the deadline.

01:13:07.760 He didn't miss the deadline.

01:13:08.740 You did.

01:13:09.180 You told him that you'd have him the project in 30 days.

01:13:13.160 It's now 34 days.

01:13:15.560 Why wouldn't he be upset with you?

01:13:18.560 Yeah.

01:13:18.940 I think just own everything, and let's get the should have.

01:13:22.500 Like, he shouldn't be mad.

01:13:23.840 Now, should he react like that?

01:13:26.000 Should she react like that?

01:13:27.280 I'm not sure that's subject to interpretation, but we can deal with that later.

01:13:31.540 Yeah, totally.

01:13:32.120 Because that's just something – the way you're responding, I might be able to solve that by actually solving the problem.

01:13:40.400 And then we can talk about a better way to approach me in the future.

01:13:44.260 But for now, I've got fires.

01:13:45.920 We've got to put them out, and that's priority number one over how you – imagine this.

01:13:51.960 Imagine you're in military, because this is John Boyd.

01:13:54.040 He's an Air Force colonel.

01:13:55.040 Now, you're in the military, and you're taking enemy fire, and your command comes to you and says something horribly off color or something completely inappropriate or politically incorrect, but is giving you orders, and he's calling you a retard or something.

01:14:11.420 Like, he's doing something that he shouldn't be doing, but he's giving you orders.

01:14:15.140 Is that what you're going to consume yourself with right now?

01:14:18.060 You're being attacked.

01:14:19.060 You're going to die.

01:14:21.340 Maybe cover down like he's telling you to.

01:14:25.160 Maybe figure out what needs to happen so you guys don't die first, and then we can backfill like, hey, maybe in the future you can communicate with me a little bit more effectively.

01:14:34.700 There's a more effective way.

01:14:36.120 Right?

01:14:36.880 That's funny.

01:14:38.220 Totally.

01:14:39.580 Yeah.

01:14:40.280 I love it.

01:14:41.320 I think that's it.

01:14:41.860 Thanks for throwing that one in.

01:14:42.700 I just felt like, man, Lonnie needs a solid because that's a tough place to be, man, when you feel like everything's all hitting you all at once, right?

01:14:53.660 So absolutely.

01:14:55.320 I did have one thought for him just really quick.

01:14:58.940 Don't lose sight of the bigger picture.

01:15:02.620 I hate the term why, but you could use that.

01:15:06.100 What's your why?

01:15:07.460 Like, you know, and all this stuff hitting the fan, just don't lose sight of how you show up and what ultimately truly matters.

01:15:16.420 Otherwise, sometimes we have a tendency to lose sight of that, and you might spiral worse, right?

01:15:23.200 You hit the bottle, and being a drunken moron around the fam is not going to help your ultimate why, which is probably to have strong connections with your wife and family, right?

01:15:35.840 And so don't lose sight of the bigger picture.

01:15:38.280 I've been there, and look, I've literally been there where it's like things are overwhelming.

01:15:43.820 A drink would be really nice right now, and it will.

01:15:47.160 It actually will.

01:15:48.340 That's the catch.

01:15:49.060 It will be really nice right now, but when you think about the way that you show up and the most productive, this has been helpful for me on my own journey with sobriety.

01:16:02.000 When I think about the most productive times, when I think about the business or personal production, and I think about the relationships with the people I care about, and I think about when I have the most joy, maybe it's spending time with you and your family.

01:16:16.160 I'm not drunk.

01:16:18.160 Yeah.

01:16:19.060 You're present.

01:16:19.520 I'm not in the bottle.

01:16:20.440 I'm present.

01:16:21.020 I'm there.

01:16:21.500 I'm available.

01:16:22.660 I'm laughing.

01:16:23.680 I'm clear-minded.

01:16:25.740 I'm not stressed out about those things.

01:16:27.940 But the lonely times, the isolated times, the times where I'm frustrated, the times where I'm confused, the times where I don't know what to do, where I'm inefficient, ineffective, losing confidence, guess when that exists?

01:16:44.640 I'm not in drunkenness or drunkenness or a hangover.

01:16:47.820 So pan out just a little bit.

01:16:52.140 I know it'll feel, I do, I know it'll feel really good right now.

01:16:55.920 You're not going to feel better.

01:16:57.080 You know you're not going to feel better in two hours, let alone two days or two weeks.

01:17:01.660 There's a framing here that I think has been helpful for me when it comes to having so much coming at you at one point.

01:17:09.060 You put them into three buckets.

01:17:11.560 You have prioritize, you have delay, and you have eliminate.

01:17:18.520 And you might even throw a delegate in there as well.

01:17:21.560 So prioritize, delay, or eliminate.

01:17:24.940 The things that come to you, if it's a priority and needs to be taken care of right now, you can either do it yourself or you can delegate it to somebody else.

01:17:30.680 But it needs to get done immediately.

01:17:32.160 It has to get done.

01:17:33.120 It's got to get done.

01:17:34.140 This has to be a priority.

01:17:35.100 This is something we need to focus on.

01:17:36.360 Delay is like, ooh, that's important.

01:17:40.160 That is important.

01:17:41.420 But it's not right now.

01:17:43.040 It will be in a week, two weeks.

01:17:44.980 Like, I definitely need to do that.

01:17:46.320 So that's a delay.

01:17:47.720 And then an eliminate is that will never be important.

01:17:50.600 It's not a priority.

01:17:52.200 It feels like it is right now, but it's just not.

01:17:55.420 And so you move that into the eliminate can.

01:17:57.280 And all you deal with today is prioritization.

01:18:01.740 And then delay is what you deal with next week or whatever it might be.

01:18:05.100 Yeah.

01:18:05.460 And it's amazing how often when you do that, you just feel 100% better almost right away.

01:18:12.920 It's weird.

01:18:14.180 Like, I've done that many times where I feel overwhelmed.

01:18:16.740 And once I went with, no, no, here's the top priority items, there's almost this weight off my shoulders the minute I do that.

01:18:23.580 I'm like, okay, operate on this list.

01:18:26.240 That's all that I can do.

01:18:27.760 But it's when we try to do it all, right?

01:18:30.400 That's when that overwhelm definitely, like, at least for me, cripples action.

01:18:36.880 Well, there's one other thing, too, here, and I agree with what you're saying, and that is the idea of not overpromising.

01:18:43.520 Because as high-achieving men, people who want to be valuable, and everybody listening to this podcast does, is we have a tendency of overpromising.

01:18:51.180 So, Kip, maybe you come to me, and you're like, hey, Ryan, you know, like, man, I could really use your help at the lake this weekend with moving some stuff out there and winterizing the property, let's just say.

01:19:03.160 Yeah.

01:19:03.280 But I know this weekend, I already have plans, I've already made commitments, I've already, like, it's already booked.

01:19:13.700 As a good man, I would be tempted to say, yes, Kip, I would love to come help you.

01:19:19.000 And you know what will happen if I say yes?

01:19:22.880 I'll get there late, and that'll bother you.

01:19:26.020 I'll be unproductive, and that should bother you.

01:19:29.540 I'll leave early, and that should bother you.

01:19:31.860 And then everybody else I already made commitments to will also be bothered.

01:19:36.200 So, I'm not trading anything.

01:19:37.960 Everybody's now bothered.

01:19:38.680 There's a price for it.

01:19:39.660 Yeah.

01:19:40.180 Regardless, there's always a price.

01:19:41.680 Yeah.

01:19:42.220 But if I said, hey, Kip, you know what?

01:19:44.000 I can't this weekend.

01:19:45.340 I've got this, this, this, and this, and I've already made those commitments, and I will not have the time to do that.

01:19:49.920 But you know what I will do?

01:19:51.440 I will drive up Tuesday.

01:19:53.100 I'll take off early.

01:19:54.260 I'll drive up Tuesday afternoon, and I'll help you till about 9.

01:19:59.140 If you just, you know, if I can stay the night at the house, the property.

01:20:04.920 And you could say, well, I won't be there Tuesday night.

01:20:08.240 It's like, okay, we'll make a list of things that you don't have to do yourself that I could do without you there.

01:20:13.500 That's fine.

01:20:14.280 You don't need to be there for me to do certain things.

01:20:16.340 I can do that for you.

01:20:17.160 Like, not everything has to be done on their terms.

01:20:23.160 You want my help.

01:20:24.380 So I'm happy to help you, but it has to be on my terms because I already have other commitments.

01:20:29.640 You're actually really good at this in a very small and simple way.

01:20:33.020 If I text you, I very rarely, if I call you on, like, without you knowing, I very rarely get a hold of you.

01:20:40.040 That doesn't bother me.

01:20:41.040 I just know you're busy.

01:20:41.980 Very rarely do I actually get a hold of you on an unsolicited phone call, but you're good about getting back, and you're good about saying, hey, I can't talk.

01:20:51.220 The other day when I called you, you're like, hey, I can't talk, but I'm free at 5.

01:20:54.020 I called you at 5.30 or whatever it was, and you were free.

01:20:57.340 You were available, which means to me you value what I'm doing because I know you're busy, but you're still squeezing in time for me, and you also value yourself.

01:21:05.980 Yeah, like the other commitment I had when you first called.

01:21:10.600 Yeah.

01:21:11.160 Yeah.

01:21:11.720 Yeah, absolutely.

01:21:12.940 A lot of lessons to be extracted.

01:21:14.780 I love it.

01:21:15.520 Man, we need to wrap up quickly.

01:21:17.560 We ran a little bit longer than normal, but maybe a couple call-outs, divorcenotdeath.com.

01:21:23.680 Yes, sir.

01:21:24.640 To learn about that, to sign up, to get more information, that's divorcenotdeath.com.

01:21:30.060 And then, as always, just connect with Ryan online, X on Instagram, at Ryan Mickler, and stay connected to the community.

01:21:37.260 That's how this all started, right?

01:21:39.060 The Order of Man community, in essence, right?

01:21:41.260 Facebook.com slash group slash Order of Man, and stay connected with us.

01:21:46.780 That's it.

01:21:47.680 Guys, I appreciate your great questions today.

01:21:49.460 It's always fun when we have solid questions like this.

01:21:51.700 It makes it more enjoyable for me and actually helps me because there's things that I plan for.

01:21:57.840 There's things that I need to prep for, and I go back, and I have notes.

01:22:01.180 You know, Kip, I take notes on all of these, and I go back and review.

01:22:04.400 I'm like, man, those are some good topics.

01:22:06.660 Those are some good things for me to learn.

01:22:07.980 So I appreciate everybody.

01:22:09.340 But we'll be back on Friday.

01:22:10.620 Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

01:22:19.640 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:22:22.520 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you are meant to be,

01:22:26.280 we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 27, 2025

When Vulnerability Goes Wrong, The OODA Loop, and Honoring Choice ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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