Order of Man - Why You Should Hunt, Eliminate Expectations, and Focus on Skills Over Tools

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.420 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.200 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.780 you can call yourself a man. Sean, what's up, brother? Looks like you're getting ready for

00:00:27.740 the hunt. You just cold in Nashville or what? It's freezing in Nashville. Is it really?

00:00:34.960 Yeah, it was like three degrees yesterday or something. I didn't know it even snowed. I think

00:00:40.620 people get snow, like two inches of snow, and Nashville shuts down, it seems like.

00:00:45.200 Completely. We got four inches that shut down. My kids have been on snow days for all last week

00:00:50.080 and today, and hopefully they'll go back tomorrow. It's so funny. Nobody knows.

00:00:55.300 I know. It is weird. We had a little bit of snow in Southern Utah last week, which is very rare.

00:01:02.760 Maybe once per year, but it never sticks. People are crazy, man. We spent some time in Maine. A lot

00:01:08.660 of people know. There wasn't much that shut Maine down, but admittedly, Maine has the plows and the

00:01:17.560 equipment and salts the roads and everything else. You guys don't have that infrastructure built in just

00:01:22.200 because it's not necessary. Yeah. Yeah. But it was fun. We were gone. We were here a couple of days,

00:01:28.660 my wife and I, and then we left. We had an event. We just did for 1,700 people.

00:01:33.660 Oh, nice. Yeah. Sweet. Well, I'm glad you're here. Kip, which is our normal co-host. You're our abnormal

00:01:44.200 normal co-host. Kip's our normal co-host. Yeah. He had a last minute meeting. He's like,

00:01:51.220 Hey man, I can't make it. So I called you up. You're always down and I always enjoy our

00:01:55.900 conversations. So I'm glad you're here to answer some questions from our iron council brothers

00:02:00.860 today. Looking forward to it. Yeah. It's going to be good. We first one, let's jump into it. We got

00:02:06.520 Marcus Segura and he says, what are the nutrient dense and high protein items you utilize for your

00:02:14.660 diet? That's it. Oh, I would be interested in what you both eat. That's a healthier and better

00:02:22.040 alternative than chips and salsa processed foods, et cetera. Yeah. He knows, he knows my, my Achilles

00:02:29.780 heel, which is the chips and salsa. Admittedly though, it's probably been months since I had,

00:02:36.500 had chips and salsa. So I have been able to avoid the temptation that, uh, that tends to get me.

00:02:43.200 Look, I'm not a nutritionist and I don't even pretend to be one. I don't even pretend to like

00:02:47.100 meal prep or, or weigh my food or, or really get into this, but very simply, and I'm not even saying

00:02:54.280 I'm perfect at this. Okay. But here's what I try to eat. And here's what I eat. I would say 70% of the

00:03:01.040 time meat, vegetables, throw some rice in there and water. If, if you want to be healthy, just eat

00:03:11.420 that. That's it. That's all you need to eat is meat, vegetables, green vegetables, uh, or, you know,

00:03:17.920 mix it up. I've, I've heard even just having lots of different colors, whether it's carrots and peas

00:03:23.740 and green beans and just lots of different colors helps. Uh, and it, and it's very simple. Uh, one

00:03:30.060 thing that I started doing and I talk about this company a lot, they don't sponsor the podcast, but

00:03:36.020 I talk a lot about HelloFresh. It's a great service as I went through my divorce and had to learn how

00:03:41.640 to cook and I'm helping, you know, cook for my kids and myself. I don't really like cooking, or at least

00:03:48.360 I haven't in the past. And I certainly don't like grocery shopping. So all the food comes directly

00:03:53.460 to me. It has the ingredients. It has the recipe. It has the instructions. And so I just go through

00:03:58.840 and I make that. And usually I'll have one leftover meal for the next day. So I have that for lunch.

00:04:04.560 I don't typically do breakfast. You know, people say intermittent fasting. I don't call it

00:04:09.280 intermittent fasting. I just call it skipping breakfast. The marketer's got ahold of that one.

00:04:13.800 It's intermittent fasting. No, you just don't have breakfast. Like just call it for what it is.

00:04:18.360 And so I have an eating window, not because I'm super intentional about it, just because

00:04:24.000 I don't eat breakfast. I'm not super hungry in the morning. Like I don't go to the gym

00:04:27.120 like with, with food in my stomach. I go on an empty stomach. I drink some water. Maybe

00:04:33.080 occasionally I'll do a pre-workout, but really for me, what I, what I like to eat and what I feel the

00:04:38.520 best is wild game. So that's deer, moose, pig mostly. And that consists of about 70, 80% of my protein

00:04:47.080 sources. Uh, and if you can't do that, I understand. Cause not everybody hunts is as much as I do,

00:04:52.720 or you do. Uh, so, you know, uh, you could find like, uh, there's natural grocers, there's other

00:04:59.560 companies you can use that have healthy protein sources. Um, so it's wild game and then it's green

00:05:07.280 beans. I don't eat lettuce. Cause that doesn't do well with me, but green beans, um, broccoli,

00:05:14.000 Brussels sprouts, sweet potatoes, maybe some other things in there. And then rice and water.

00:05:21.220 That's about it. Like, I don't, you could go to other people like Andrew Huberman and all that kind

00:05:25.880 of stuff about the science behind it. I don't need the science. I just know that works for me.

00:05:29.120 Yeah. I, I'm in exact line with that pretty much. And a couple of things that you said,

00:05:37.880 um, one with the wild game thing that I was listening to a podcast with, I think it was,

00:05:43.460 his name's Taylor Sheridan, the guy who did a Yellowstone on Rogan. And he was talking about

00:05:51.320 how easy it is if you want to start hunting. Cause a lot of people say, Oh, I'm in the city. I don't

00:05:55.720 hunt. I can't hunt. I can't, whatever, or it's expensive to go hunt. It's really not, uh, you

00:06:02.520 know, living in California. When I was there, you could get an over the counter deer tag with a bow,

00:06:09.600 um, shoot two deer a year, even, and California is probably one of the, as people say, like least

00:06:15.620 hunter friendly environments out there. It's really not. If you understand it, um, you can see as many

00:06:21.720 pigs in California as you want, you know, I just have to interject real quick, Sean,

00:06:26.160 cause you're built a little different. So let's, let's, let's admit that. Okay. Yes. You were in

00:06:32.080 California, but I've been hunting with you. I mean, you're a, you're a, you're a killer,

00:06:37.440 but you put in a lot of work. You put in way more work than I do and way more work than the average

00:06:44.000 human being. So let's not pretend that it doesn't take some effort and work. Cause what you're saying

00:06:49.200 is like, Oh, I don't know what the problem is. Guys like me, I'm like, I don't know. I haven't

00:06:53.480 seen you hunt, but okay. Now saying that I'm, I'm, I'm lining it up for what he was talking about.

00:07:02.480 Cause he, he wasn't talking about me either, or somebody who does put in a lot of work,

00:07:07.200 but it's like to get a rifle. He's like, you could even get a used rifle, you know, with good

00:07:12.260 up with decent optics on it, something that'll kill something. Um, and for all of it, he was saying,

00:07:19.200 for five, 600 bucks. So the investment of five to $600, but then you go kill two animals. You

00:07:26.680 know, what I was just about to say in California, you can kill as many pigs as you want in California.

00:07:30.980 Right. So it's like, yeah, there's access and things like that. But I mean, most farms in

00:07:36.240 California, if you just went and asked them like, Hey, do you, do you mind hunters or something? You

00:07:40.620 just, you have to put in the effort is what I was going to say. There is effort involved.

00:07:44.400 You have to go out. You do have to spend some money, but let's say it costs you five,

00:07:48.860 $600 to get all the stuff you need to go out and do it. And then you do have to learn. There's a

00:07:54.340 learning curve. You have to learn to shoot. You have to do all that stuff. Let's say it costs you a

00:07:58.120 total of a thousand bucks, but now you have wild game in your freezer. If, and number one,

00:08:05.140 it's going to be better quality, the best quality meat you can get. And it's, you know, if,

00:08:12.100 if you go whole foods, I know right now sells venison ground venison. And this is what it

00:08:17.720 is in Tennessee. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what it is in other States, but in Tennessee

00:08:22.020 ground venison is 18 bucks a pound. Okay. So, I mean, it's the best meat you could get.

00:08:28.520 Is that good? I don't even know. Is that 18? That sounds high.

00:08:31.400 That's a ton. Yeah.

00:08:34.000 Cause what is it supposed to be like for beef? You'd be like what? Five, six bucks or something

00:08:37.840 like that for a pound. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I don't know. And that I don't know because

00:08:41.780 I haven't, I haven't bought meat at the store in years. Yeah. Because all the wild game,

00:08:47.920 right? So dollars a pound for venison. Is that nuts? It's crazy. So $18. So you do the math in

00:08:57.740 your head. If you go out and you get a deer and that produces, you know, 50, 60 pounds of meat,

00:09:04.180 that's on the smaller side. If you, if you get a smaller deer, but 50, 60 pounds, do the math on that.

00:09:10.300 Right. And so now you're getting a better quality of meat. If you go to like the retail end of what

00:09:17.760 it costs, it's far less money than you're ever going to spend on what you're buying. And, um, you

00:09:25.720 know, and then if you want to go that route and buy some, the best one that I know of is a company

00:09:29.380 called Maui Nui, uh, they're on, on the Island of Maui and they actually sell direct to consumer,

00:09:36.760 um, from the islands, um, with access deer. And I don't know their cost honestly, but I, I know it's

00:09:44.940 less than 18 bucks a pound. Yeah. And it's the best meat you can get. So there's resources is what

00:09:51.940 I'm saying. So you could go out, you could hunt, you could have this wild game. It's an alternative

00:09:56.560 as on the meat side of things where, you know, 100%, you're never eating anything factory farmed.

00:10:05.020 So I just wanted to throw that out there as we said, cause if you, if people automatically say,

00:10:10.600 well, I don't hunt, so I don't have that alternative. There's alternatives. There's

00:10:14.920 places you can go. There's companies out there that provide a better quality of meat. Most places have

00:10:20.540 local farmers. You can go to, you can go to your local farmer's market. There's going to be

00:10:25.100 a farmer there that has grass fed cows that they, you know, sell direct to consumer with. And you just

00:10:33.680 have to put in the effort. You have to show up to the places that meet the people, um, ask around

00:10:39.560 people that, you know, you know, and go in with friends. Um, you know, like I know guys who they find

00:10:47.020 a local farmer, but they're not going to buy a whole cow. So they go in, you and I go buy one

00:10:51.240 together. Yeah. We buy a half each and half a cow each and you fill your freezer for the, you know,

00:10:56.180 or you go quarters or whatever. And again, way less than you're going to go to the supermarket and buy

00:11:02.020 it for. So if you want the best quality and have that, um, do that. The second thing is when you were

00:11:09.300 talking about how lettuce doesn't do well with you, I'm, I have the same body type I think as you,

00:11:13.860 because lettuce doesn't sit well with me either. But my wife is opposite where like

00:11:18.060 lettuce, leafy greens, those are the best thing. Um, fish, shellfish, all that stuff doesn't sit

00:11:23.200 great with me either. So I'm like a red meat guy, but she, her body doesn't process red meat.

00:11:29.400 She doesn't process the protein in it. And so, you know, we have very different,

00:11:33.720 that's horrible body types. It's like the tick there. There's a tick that if you, it's the lone star

00:11:39.380 tick, if you get bitten by the lone star tick, you'll be allergic to red meat for the rest of

00:11:43.800 your life. I would, I would kill myself. Like horrible. So, you know, as far as like the best

00:11:52.120 proteins, the reason I'm bringing that up is because different proteins are better for different

00:11:57.500 people. Some people's bodies process, uh, plant-based proteins better. And some people's

00:12:04.020 bodies process meat-based proteins better. And so you can't just say way is better for one person.

00:12:10.160 And these, you know, other things are better. I mean, there's just, you have to figure that out,

00:12:14.340 right? That's part of the process. And then you have to find those foods. Ryan's right. The best

00:12:19.820 things are anything natural, all whole foods, uh, anything that's not factory farmed, um, given

00:12:27.700 antibiotics, free range, wild, all of that stuff's going to be the best. Same thing with your

00:12:33.200 vegetables. Um, and then I don't do anything. Like, I don't know if he was asking for like the

00:12:40.300 bars or any of that stuff. I've never done any of that stuff. So ours, what do you mean? Bars

00:12:44.280 like protein bars or anything? No, we all know. Like the best thing you can do with nutrition,

00:12:50.420 it's easy. Like all these guys, like over complicated, even nutritionists are like,

00:12:54.720 now here's what you need. One ingredient food, steak, rice, vegetables. You don't need a freaking

00:13:01.860 protein bar. You should have to your point, some venison jerky that you can chew on if you're going

00:13:07.500 on a hike. And I'm not, again, I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's not hard. No one ingredient

00:13:13.500 meals. Steak is one ingredient. Put some salt and pepper. You're done. Green beans, salt and pepper.

00:13:20.560 You're done. Rice, put a little pepper, maybe some cilantro or a little, you know, chopped onions and

00:13:28.220 a little bit of, you know, butter and you're done. One ingredient items are the best.

00:13:34.680 I did some research here while you were talking, Sean, uh, a decent size freezer at home Depot,

00:13:40.360 chest freezer, 200 bucks, a brand new American Ruger 308, which will get the job done on about 90%

00:13:46.800 or more, a big game in North America, a new rifle, $500. So, and the beauty of that too.

00:13:55.660 You need the optic. You need the optics though too, right?

00:13:58.060 You do. And, and, but even on that, you know, you could spend two or $300. So let's say you're a

00:14:03.040 grant, like you said, a grand into this thing. The beauty of that is that's going to last you a very

00:14:08.660 long time. So your hunting cost becomes more effective and efficient over time because you don't

00:14:14.360 need to go buy new rifles, new gear, new equipment, new this, new that. And people say, well, what about

00:14:18.420 all the camo? It's so expensive. Look, I I'm sponsored by a company that does, you're wearing

00:14:24.200 it or a gym, right? I'm made in America. It's expensive. I'm not going to lie. It's expensive.

00:14:29.880 Good camo is expensive. It's high quality stuff. You know what our granddads used to hunt in

00:14:33.820 blue jeans and red flannels. And they killed more deer than you and I would ever dream of.

00:14:39.440 So if we're saying things are hard, it's because we're either ignorant about it, which happens.

00:14:46.100 So educate yourself or number two, you're just using it as an excuse. That's it.

00:14:51.440 Yeah. It's, it's here's, I think the root of all of it is anything that you want to do well

00:14:57.900 takes extra effort. You can't just go with the flow, with the crowd, do what everybody else is doing.

00:15:04.760 You have to put in the effort, do the research, um, and then put in the work, but it's available.

00:15:11.720 All right, man. What's next?

00:15:13.280 Next is Richard Ray. He says, when did you both realize that you had a desire to make a difference

00:15:18.340 in the lives of men? What were you doing prior to order a man to pour in a man that developed you

00:15:23.540 and inspired you to start a more focused, structured movement? Thank you for the difference

00:15:28.140 you're making in my life and countless others.

00:15:30.500 Yeah. I, I wasn't doing anything that specifically helped pour into men other than I was doing some

00:15:36.420 young men's in our church, church organization, which I, I love, like, I love working with the

00:15:41.300 young men. I love having fun and we would do airsoft and we go do jujitsu and I'd bring them

00:15:46.940 over and we'd lift in our garage. Like we would do cool stuff every week. I worked with a group of

00:15:51.140 young men, but outside of that, I really wasn't doing anything until I started order of man.

00:15:55.740 And I started order of man very selfishly. I was doing financial planning. You and I actually

00:16:01.020 have a very, very similar background. You stuck with it. I bailed. Uh, and man, like I, I did the

00:16:08.880 podcast for my financial planning practice called wealth anatomy. I think you know that. And I love

00:16:14.200 podcasting out of the gate. I loved it, but I didn't want to have that continual conversation.

00:16:19.040 So I pivoted after about 20 episodes of that podcast into the order of man podcast, which is

00:16:25.520 something I just wanted to do to be able to have conversations with impressive men in different

00:16:30.260 fields. So I could learn how to be a better business owner, how I could run my financial

00:16:34.320 planning practice better. Um, I had young children, two young boys at the time. I just wanted to be a

00:16:40.380 better guy myself. So I launched order of man and I thought I can have conversations with you guys

00:16:45.780 via a podcast. And I, I would just publish it. I'd just make it public. It was just one-on-one

00:16:51.760 coaching free one-on-one coaching is all it was. And I would publish it. And I realized very quickly,

00:16:57.760 man, we were onto something. And then we started a Facebook group not long after. And that grew very,

00:17:04.060 very rapidly. And guys were asking questions and helping and supporting each other. I'm like,

00:17:08.020 man, we're actually onto something here. And then what ended up happening is, Hey, we love the podcast.

00:17:13.520 We'd like the message. We'd like this group. Like, what if we want something more? I'm like,

00:17:18.540 yeah, I, I don't know what that would look like, but let me see what we can do.

00:17:24.320 And that's when we launched the iron council, which was in, I think it was November or December of 2015.

00:17:32.260 And I, I opened it up for 12 guys. I'm like, I'll do 12. I don't know how long it'll take me,

00:17:37.100 but I'll do 12 and we'll see what we can do. And we charged them a hundred bucks for 30 days.

00:17:40.940 And we had 12 guys sign up overnight. I was actually looking at it the other day.

00:17:45.620 Mark oblowski. He's a good friend of mine. Um, do you know, Mark?

00:17:49.360 No. Okay. Mark's been with us since the beginning. He was the very first person to sign up for the

00:17:55.860 iron council. And I have the email basically says, Hey man, thanks for believing me. Like it was just me

00:18:02.180 thinking about this. And now there's two of us, you and me, let's see what we can do. And he's still

00:18:06.700 in the iron council. Um, well, yeah, that's, that's kind of how it grew. And then I don't,

00:18:12.960 I don't think I ever had like the heart of helping men necessarily when I started, but I realized

00:18:18.200 quickly that this is something guys need. I'm really good at this, uh, just based on the skillset

00:18:25.120 I have and have developed over the past nearly nine years now. And I can see now how valuable it is

00:18:32.100 in the lives of men and society as a whole. So it all came together, not because I had this grand

00:18:37.160 plan of what it would look like, but because I took a step into something I was interested in

00:18:41.980 and here's what it's, what it's grown into. Yeah. That's, I'm glad you told it that way.

00:18:48.720 I haven't heard you tell it that way before with that, including the Facebook group and

00:18:54.620 that stuff. That's cool. It's cause the way that I've heard you explain it before,

00:18:59.640 it almost makes it sound like you had this vision for this men's movement, uh, you know,

00:19:06.860 through the podcast more. So as far as like scaling and being able to reach more.

00:19:12.340 I mean, I did think that would be cool. Like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to say that I

00:19:16.340 didn't have thoughts of like, Oh, this would be cool if other guys banded with it. And there was a

00:19:21.980 guy that I was really, really inspired by Brett McKay with art of manliness. A lot of people who

00:19:26.860 listen to this, listen to art of manliness. I was very inspired by Brett. Um, and so I saw what

00:19:32.420 he created, but I also saw a gap. He was educating men on some things that are, that are all good and

00:19:37.300 important, but I think we took a deeper, more, uh, action oriented direction as opposed to

00:19:44.280 information consumption. And I saw that gap and we filled that gap. And so I did have some idea of

00:19:50.620 like, Oh, this could be cool, but I never thought it would be what it is today. Never in a million

00:19:54.820 years. Yeah. Well, the funny thing is Rogan says that same thing. And a lot of guys who are very

00:20:00.940 successful in the space when it has to do with podcasts and you look at the most successful ones

00:20:05.260 are things guys were passionate about. They stuck with it, not thinking whether it would work or not

00:20:12.780 as much as there was a need, uh, they were interested in it. They had a good time doing it.

00:20:19.240 And then they were able to monetize it just as a process of really being interested and, uh, and

00:20:28.560 helping me. One thing I wrote here is expectations are just the killer of dreams. Like, you know what

00:20:36.320 I mean? We all have this. Well, you'll never, you'll never, but you'll never meet those expectations

00:20:41.100 and it never goes the way you want it to. And that's why it'll crush you. If you think like,

00:20:48.320 for example, you could take it on a micro. If you think that you're going to go to the gym after

00:20:51.480 sitting on the couch for a decade, that you're going to go pull 500 pounds on a deadlift. And

00:20:55.360 that's your expectation. You're not going back into the gym. If you think you're going to show up

00:20:59.880 on the jujitsu mats and like beat everybody's ass, like, and then you get there and everybody beats

00:21:04.820 your ass. Like you're not going back to jujitsu. If you start a podcast and you think that you're

00:21:10.340 going to become the next order of man or Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson, like you're going to get your

00:21:15.420 stuff handed to you and you're not going to continue to podcast. So what I would suggest to

00:21:21.880 guys is loosen up on the expectation a little bit. Here's how I would say it. Have some

00:21:28.020 expectations and some standards for yourself about your own performance, the way you're going to show

00:21:34.440 up, the way you're going to do things, and then just let the chips fall where they may.

00:21:37.420 I'm going to show up consistently. I'm going to show up professionally. I'm going to be prepared.

00:21:42.960 I'm going to do everything I can do. Those are my expectations for my own personal performance.

00:21:48.020 And then what happens from there, I just have to let it ride. And if you do that, then you're not

00:21:53.020 putting unnecessary weight or pressure on yourself to perform in a certain way, because I promise you,

00:21:58.160 and I've heard it said this way, we always under, excuse me, overestimate our abilities in the micro,

00:22:04.100 but over underestimate our abilities in the macro. So if you think in the next six months,

00:22:09.360 you're going to be God's gift to podcasting, you're sorely mistaken. But if you don't think

00:22:14.960 that you can be successful over 10 years, you're also mistaken. You can, but it just takes the work

00:22:20.880 and having a personal expectation of performance and then letting the results take care of themselves.

00:22:25.500 And most of those with the best results, uh, have been doing it consistently from five to 10 years.

00:22:34.040 That's the right. Of course. Most of them where, where it pops. And so excited, super excited,

00:22:41.600 but, um, mine was way different in that. I did stick with it. I'll say that, like you were saying,

00:22:50.140 in the financial planning realm, which you wouldn't expect would lead into anything having to do with

00:22:57.380 men or helping men. Most people think about money, but most of our business is dealing with

00:23:05.780 relationships, especially for me in mentoring and coaching people how to run their own agencies.

00:23:11.680 Um, you end up dealing in their lives, their personal lives and what's going on there.

00:23:16.320 And so my wife is a very strong personality. As a matter of fact, our whole business is wrapped

00:23:21.880 around, like she's the face of our business on that end. Um, we built it that way initially on

00:23:27.900 purpose, but because it's such a strong women's presence, the men almost felt kind of left out a

00:23:34.760 little bit, you know, because her, she attracts more really strong women. And so I started thinking,

00:23:42.000 oh, we need to do something more for the men simultaneously. I listened to, I forget how

00:23:47.880 I came across this podcast with the order of man. I, I had a friend or maybe Shane came on here

00:23:56.340 or something. I forget what it was. I think Shane was on. Yeah. Shane's been on. And, uh, maybe that

00:24:02.040 was it. And I'm like, oh, I'll check that out. And I started listening. I'm like, man, I'm so in tune

00:24:06.740 with everything this guy is saying. I want to find out more. And then the IC, I, I joined the IC

00:24:13.000 when I was in the IC. And my thing was, as soon as I saw it, I was like, I want to do anything I

00:24:19.440 can to help these guys grow, but I don't want to do it. Like, I don't want to run a men's movement.

00:24:24.980 I don't want to run a men's movement. I got too much, very clear. I, I, I way too much other stuff

00:24:30.300 going on in other businesses happening at once. Cause I don't only have my financial business.

00:24:34.800 We have other things too. And so in that I was like, okay, but I also, I already started doing

00:24:43.120 this with the men in my other company. Right. And so I run a group in there that we've got like

00:24:48.320 four or 500 people, but no money, no anything. I just do it free as part of our practice on the

00:24:53.440 financial business side. Um, and then I told you like, Hey, I'll do anything I can to help this

00:25:00.260 movement grow because I believe in it and it's needed. And so that's how I got involved and it's

00:25:07.100 led into this, but it was a combination of me wanting to me looking for a need, me wanting to

00:25:13.040 help as much as I could. Um, and then the communication in between for me, it was like,

00:25:19.260 okay, I don't have the time to pour in to creating men's movement. But if I find one I believe in,

00:25:26.180 and I can get behind that somebody's running, I'll put in all the, the effort and, and, uh,

00:25:35.240 ability that I do have for that cause. And as long as I communicate how I'm doing it with them,

00:25:43.040 you know, I'm going to give my best and help it grow however we can. And so that was the route that

00:25:49.360 I took. And, you know, that's all these other things happening now. Um, I'm never going to be

00:25:58.480 specifically in the men's space. You know, we have our happy and strong thing. Like my wife's book,

00:26:02.960 that happy and strong book, that was just a part of the coaching thing that, that we do for couples.

00:26:09.060 Um, cause we do that as well. And that, that was something that we didn't plan that as a business.

00:26:17.260 We just started doing it on the side because all these couples in our business had friends of

00:26:23.400 theirs that were asking, will they coach me? Will they teach us? Will they, and I'm like,

00:26:27.540 no, I don't have time for that. And then my wife and I were like, well, should we maybe just do like

00:26:32.920 a couple of public like conferences or something like that? We got the space for like 300 people

00:26:38.180 and it filled, like you said, like, it was like, boom, we filled a room for 300 people like overnight.

00:26:43.900 And we've done a couple and they've all filled and they've, you know, all that stuff. And it's

00:26:48.060 turned into a six figure business, literally us putting like 3% of our total time and effort into

00:26:55.280 it. And that's already grown into a six figure business. Like if we focus and put extra effort

00:27:00.920 on that, that could become a seven figure business too. But it's not through trying to make it a

00:27:05.520 business. It's through wanting to help people, wanting to support people, a need being there,

00:27:12.660 you getting good at being able to help, you know, you having some value to bring in that space.

00:27:22.520 And then it's just time. It's time and effort and consistency.

00:27:27.120 Well, one thing is, as you're saying this, and I'm not speaking for you, I'm just speaking for

00:27:31.460 myself. You said it's wanting to help people. I actually, for me, don't even think that's the

00:27:35.820 case. Like I'm trying to be really honest about this. And what I wrote here is if you're looking

00:27:42.160 for, and I talked about this a little bit, a couple of weeks ago on a Friday field notes,

00:27:45.380 when I talked about finding your passion as a man, if that's something you're looking for,

00:27:49.280 and you're looking for some satisfaction, then what I would suggest, and here's what I wrote down

00:27:52.940 is what solution do you personally need that isn't available? What solution do you personally

00:28:01.000 need that isn't available? So it is a, is it a men's group? Is that what you need? Because if you need

00:28:05.400 that, then you're going to be bought into the idea of having a men's group and you're going to be able

00:28:08.780 to lead something very good. If you have a dirty pool and you're like, I need a pool cleaner,

00:28:14.940 but everybody else around here sucks. There's too much. Okay. That's a solution you need. Could

00:28:19.400 you be the one to fill that need? Now, maybe you don't know everything about pool cleaning or running

00:28:23.880 a men's organization, that stuff you can figure out guys, that stuff you can find out. But if it's

00:28:29.800 important to you, if it's meaningful, if it's significant to you and it's okay to be selfish,

00:28:35.460 then it will be significant and meaningful to other people. So what is the problem that you need

00:28:42.360 to solve for yourself? And then realize like field of dreams, if you build it, they will come

00:28:48.280 because there's other people who have the same problem you do and don't have a solution to it.

00:28:53.420 The other thing that I wrote down here, because both of us had this happen, a bunch of guys were

00:28:57.900 asking me like, what, what, what can we do for men? Like, what, what do we do? Like we listen to the

00:29:03.300 podcast from the Facebook group. What next? And for you, your wife was going with her stuff and

00:29:08.100 all the guys are like, yeah, but what about us? Yeah. If you build an audience around something that

00:29:13.460 you personally are excited about, that's a solution you need in your life. And then the people are

00:29:18.200 going to start asking you for the product for the service. And I found that to be true. When we

00:29:24.900 started the iron council, it was a 90 day course and about 60 days into it, maybe even a little bit

00:29:29.600 earlier, guys are like, Hey, what do we do after this? Like, I don't know. So we created something

00:29:34.420 that went above and beyond the initial 90 days because that's what the guys were asking for.

00:29:39.560 So when you build something powerful, I think part of the way, you know, it's powerful is people are

00:29:44.740 asking for more. And if they're asking for more, all you have to do is say, yeah, I got it. A lot of

00:29:51.320 guys will actually complain. Like I'm the only one who ever organizes anything. My friends don't

00:29:56.000 exert any effort. I'm always putting together the stuff. Why are you complaining about that?

00:30:01.680 Yeah. Those are opportunities for you to lead, for you to step up, for you to provide solutions,

00:30:05.700 for you to be the guy, the leader. So don't gripe and moan about being the guy who proposes solutions

00:30:12.200 and then simultaneously say, you want to be a leader. You want to be influential. You want to have

00:30:17.020 credibility with other people. That's how you build it. So be grateful that nobody else is going to do it

00:30:22.280 because you are the guy who will. And all those other people will complain just like you were

00:30:27.420 about wanting something, but not being able to provide it themselves.

00:30:31.720 That's actually the answer. That's an opportunity screaming at you and you not recognize it.

00:30:36.640 Right. That's proof that most people aren't going to do what you're doing to get the results that

00:30:43.360 they want in their lives. Well, you see it too. Like in every facet, I see a lot of guys who are

00:30:48.720 dating, for example, and they're like, Oh, I don't know. Like, I don't feel, I don't feel like

00:30:52.860 a man. I don't feel assertive. I feel timid or scared around women. And I'm like, well, okay.

00:30:57.420 When's the last time you planned a date? I don't know. Like, usually I'll ask her what she wants

00:31:02.360 to do. Well, there you go. There's the problem. Like you want to be bold and strong and assertive

00:31:06.440 plan a fricking date with the girl you're interested in. Don't even ask for input. I mean,

00:31:12.620 take into consideration what you think she might like and what does, but like just plan it.

00:31:16.460 Don't, don't complain about the opportunity. And I say that way, deliberately don't complain about

00:31:22.500 the opportunity to be assertive. What an amazing opportunity. Cause 95 plus percent of guys just

00:31:28.960 aren't going to do it. And I hope as people are listening to this, there's different routes to

00:31:35.600 take for all of it. And it's just the bottom line, just like the stuff we were talking about with diet

00:31:40.720 is you have to pay attention and then you have to put in the work. You have to do the research and

00:31:46.120 then put in the work. You have to find a need and then put in the work. And then other things,

00:31:50.780 as you become successful, you just, you'll start stuff will almost literally kind of land in your

00:31:57.140 lap because you know what works because you're successful. And you know, like the stuff that

00:32:04.800 you're doing with the Gina now, like obviously women of all the men in our group start asking,

00:32:10.080 is there something for me? Can I do something? Do they have that? And that's one of the questions.

00:32:13.600 And so I'll wait until we get there. Right. But that's led in into the things you're doing there.

00:32:18.260 Right. It's just a natural progress of your success. And it's spreading through the,

00:32:26.260 through the work we're doing with men and naturally growing from there.

00:32:30.640 Yep. That's right. Cool. Next question. Justin Gass, as I continue to dive deeper into this work,

00:32:37.600 talking to brothers and spending lots of time on the app, it's gotten a woman in my life to wonder

00:32:42.480 what it would be like to have a sisterhood that's doing some type of work for women.

00:32:48.100 In one of the forge calls, Alan brought up that there was a group called Revitalized Sisterhood.

00:32:52.780 That's the counterpart to the Iron Council. After looking into it, she's in the middle of doing

00:32:57.500 their version of the battle plan and talking with Gina Tremor and plans on doing, sorry,

00:33:03.500 and plans to join when the emails stop. Is there any way when the what? Plans to join when the what?

00:33:09.720 It says when the emails stop. That part I didn't understand either.

00:33:13.280 I don't know. Just join. Don't like, there's probably, I think because I work with Gina,

00:33:17.520 she has like a series of emails that you go through. Like you don't need to wait until the emails

00:33:23.260 stop. Like just join now. Like just join. If you're ready to go, just join. Okay.

00:33:27.640 Keep going. I'm glad you're pointing that out. Cause when I read the question initially,

00:33:31.120 I was like, yeah, we have something similar. Like we have our 30 days to battle ready program.

00:33:35.400 If you guys are interested in that, you can go to order a man.com slash battle ready.

00:33:38.700 It's a series of 17 emails you receive over 30 days. And if you're like, Hey, I want to join

00:33:43.280 the Iron Council. Like you don't need to wait till the emails are over in 30 days. If you're ready,

00:33:49.040 like put it on hyperdrive and just go right now. And that's, I think what he's referring to.

00:33:54.100 Yeah. And so he says, is there any way we can get the word out there to the women in our lives

00:33:59.000 that want to grow alongside of us, that there's also a group for women. Thanks Ryan. Appreciate

00:34:03.000 all you do.

00:34:04.300 Yeah. I mean, we're doing it right now. We're talking about it now. If you, if you hear about

00:34:07.760 it in the Iron Council and want to share that, but I think it is important. Here's what I would

00:34:11.760 suggest. And I have talked with Gina quite a bit about this. So Gina owns and runs revitalized

00:34:17.320 womanhood, which is a very similar to order of man for specifically women. And then she

00:34:23.780 has her sisterhood, which you referred to, which is very similar to the Iron Council for

00:34:27.420 order of man. So I've consulted with her, I've coached her and I've helped her build that to

00:34:31.860 where it is today. And yeah, just, just get involved. What I would suggest as a man, and

00:34:38.660 I've talked with her about this quite often is that sometimes men are very skeptical about

00:34:44.800 having the women in their life, do something like this. And it's a little, it's a little hard

00:34:51.640 for me to understand. I don't, I don't quite understand why a man wouldn't want his wife

00:34:56.660 and significant other to be involved in an organization that's going to empower, motivate,

00:35:02.040 inspire, and help give her the tools that she needs to thrive as a woman. I can see how in a man's

00:35:09.940 mind, maybe an insecure man's mind, he might be intimidated by that or think that, oh, well,

00:35:14.380 she does all this, like, where does that leave us? It's an ego thing for sure.

00:35:18.840 It is like, I don't know. I want, I want the woman in my life to be happy, to be productive,

00:35:24.460 to be successful, to have accountability, to, um, you know, have goals and dreams and desires and

00:35:30.780 growth. Like I want that. I'm actually willing to invest in ensuring that that's a part of her life

00:35:37.260 because it just helps the relationship. And the same thing is true about us as men. And I think

00:35:42.620 there's a question about how do we explain what we do to women. We'll talk about that,

00:35:47.080 but yeah, we want it. I want to grow. I want accountability. I want motivation. I want the

00:35:53.480 systems. I want the connections. So I think having a woman, especially if you're going to be involved

00:35:58.620 in an organization like ours, it would be weird to me if I was on a path of self-development and my

00:36:05.040 significant other was not, I just don't think that would last. It's, it's impossible. And we hear that

00:36:09.840 every day from guys are like, Oh, I'm motivated and I'm inspired. I'm like kicking ass and she's

00:36:14.180 not. Yeah. That's going to put a real damper on the relationship. So if you're willing to invest in

00:36:20.260 yourself then, and you understand the importance of doing it for you, there's also really, really

00:36:25.660 high level of importance on it for, for, for your wife too. Yeah. I think just one point to that is I

00:36:33.940 think the, the real reason we mentioned ego, but it comes down to some men are just scared that

00:36:39.860 once their partner that they're with every single day is getting better, that maybe they'll knowing

00:36:48.240 them that they're kind of scared that they're going to get more serious than they are. And they're going

00:36:54.460 to hold them accountable more often. Right. Yeah. So that will happen. Almost don't want that.

00:37:00.360 So if you're, if you're, if you're cool with like a mediocre marriage and a mediocre life and her not

00:37:08.020 holding you accountable in any way and her not being a true partner to you, then yeah, don't do

00:37:12.120 things like this. But if you're interested in growing and I like a little push, I need it

00:37:17.940 occasionally. I'm, I'm pretty self-motivated so I don't need it all the time. I can do it on my own.

00:37:23.720 I don't need like a woman to actually like push and prod and poke at me to do things,

00:37:27.900 but I'm telling you what, like, it's nice to know, Hey, she's motivated. She's, she's at the

00:37:33.060 gym. She's working hard. I better get my ass in there and do the same thing. Not because I'm

00:37:38.140 worried. Like she'll leave me or won't love me, but because this is what we do for ourselves and

00:37:43.600 for each other. Yeah. So what's that? Will you just then say where to find revitalized womanhood,

00:37:50.280 all that stuff? Like give them. Yeah. So revitalized womanhood.com and revitalized

00:37:55.180 womanhood podcast, just like you'd find order a man. So same thing, revitalized womanhood podcast

00:37:59.780 and revitalized womanhood.com. Gina Tremor. She's, she's, she's an incredible woman. I know her and

00:38:05.540 her husband, Rick, you know, Rick, I don't know if you know Gina, but you know, Rick really well.

00:38:08.580 Yeah. No, I'm both. Great. Oh yeah. That's right. You can spend some time with them. That's right.

00:38:12.120 Yeah. Yeah. They came out to her place in California. Yeah, that's right. But yeah, great couple,

00:38:17.320 great family doing incredible things. So definitely check that if, if you're looking for something

00:38:21.680 specifically geared towards women. Yeah. And she, you know, she's a great example too,

00:38:26.140 in so many different things where we were talking about consistency. I mean, they were just

00:38:30.800 overseas for months and she was still running everything, still doing the podcast. Like she

00:38:35.440 was still doing it. Right. So like, yeah, it's incredible. She's got no excuses person to follow.

00:38:40.780 Yeah, no doubt. All right. Next one. Landon Hughes. How do you realize when you have a good idea for

00:38:47.020 a business and what strategies do you recommend for younger men looking to get into entrepreneurship?

00:38:52.560 I was just writing that down. How do you realize when you have a good idea for a business?

00:38:56.160 When people are buying what you're offering, you know, it's pretty good. If nobody's interested,

00:39:02.500 it's not that you have a bad idea. Let me be clear on that. Just because nobody's interested in your

00:39:06.600 product or service doesn't mean that you have a bad idea. It could mean that nobody knows about it.

00:39:11.560 So it's either that you have a bad idea that nobody cares about, or you have an idea that nobody

00:39:15.520 knows about it's one of those two things. And if nobody knows about it, Jeff Bezos idea was stupid

00:39:21.040 to sell books on the internet. Right. Yeah. True. So, well, isn't it Henry Ford who said,

00:39:26.440 if I would have asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for faster horses or something

00:39:29.920 like that. Yes. Yeah. Right. So I think you have to be passionate about it. Be excited about it.

00:39:36.200 You have to be willing to take a risk and be a little bit ahead of your time. And then I think if you

00:39:42.860 can market really well, and that's what I've said quite often on this podcast, in fact, I think I

00:39:48.000 said it last week or the week before, I'm not, I'm not a like order of man, isn't the business.

00:39:54.660 Now I'm just purely talking about it from a business standpoint. And I want to hear if you would agree

00:39:58.460 with this for your business. Order of man is not the business, meaning the primary business. It's a

00:40:06.140 marketing organization. That's ours too. And we happen to be marketing services and products and

00:40:12.760 offerings and events and things like that to men. When I was in the financial planning business,

00:40:17.640 financial planning wasn't my business. Marketing was my business. And I happened to offer financial

00:40:24.080 services. Yeah. That's a huge shift that everybody needs to make because typically it's not that you have

00:40:30.760 a horrible idea. It's that you suck at communicating and effectively the people. Yes. Would you agree

00:40:36.820 with that? At 100%. Yeah. My title, I don't even, I haven't taken a financial title in a couple of

00:40:45.060 decades. I've been doing this for 25 years. If you look at my title that I put on everything,

00:40:49.420 it's a leadership development because, and that's all for marketing. That's all for just finding and

00:40:56.540 helping to grow leaders that are good at marketing. Yeah. I think just, we have to get over for

00:41:03.220 ourselves, our own mindset and mental clarity, this concept of the stigma behind sales guy. Like,

00:41:09.920 I don't want to be a salesman. Why? Yeah. I want to be a salesman because I want what I want.

00:41:15.880 Right. So I want to be- Well, nobody wants to be, nobody wants to be that salesman. And what I mean

00:41:21.640 by that is like- That's different. Exactly. Exactly. Again, that comes back to your tactical.

00:41:27.120 That comes back to tactics. I don't want to be that guy either. Yeah. But I know I'm selling.

00:41:32.240 The bait and switch guy, the, you know, over, oversells and under delivers guy. Yeah. That's

00:41:37.660 when people think of salesman, that's the stigma that comes with it. They have to- Yeah. That's the

00:41:42.480 tactics behind it. But as far as selling things, yeah, I want to sell things. If I'm in the dating

00:41:47.940 market, I need to be able to sell myself as a good catch. If I'm looking for a promotion or start a

00:41:53.260 business, I need to sell my employer that I can produce more than I can consume. If I'm trying

00:41:59.240 to sell any man who's listening a product or a service, then I need to be able to articulate it

00:42:03.600 in a way that resonates with him and helps him to believe that we're going to provide the solution

00:42:08.560 to his problem. If I want my kids to do their chores, I need to find a creative and clever way

00:42:14.520 to sell them on the idea that, Hey, this, yeah, it's not always fun, but we're going to do it with

00:42:20.520 a smile on our face because we have this beautiful home to take care of. It's all sales. Get good at

00:42:26.480 that. I think the rest begins to fall into line, but to answer the question about how do you know

00:42:30.540 people are interested, that's it. You know, you have one guy interested and then another,

00:42:34.980 and then another, and then another, and it isn't a one and done thing. You're constantly evolving the

00:42:39.240 way that you market your products and services and the solutions that you create. And if you do

00:42:45.620 that and you start to notice that you have a sale and then two sales and then 10 sales and then 200

00:42:50.340 sales. Good. It's 200 now. How do you get it to 2000? What can you do now to leverage and scale the

00:42:57.100 business? Yeah. I just wrote down, rewind this podcast because you already answered the process.

00:43:03.460 When you explained what you did to grow order a man, you explained the process and finding the

00:43:09.080 need. You found the need. It was organic. It came up. It was, but when those opportunities arose,

00:43:16.700 you were paying attention. And so they weren't missed opportunities. And I think that's where

00:43:21.180 most businesses fail is the opportunities are all around them, but because they're not marketing,

00:43:25.920 maybe they're focused on just the product or just the backend or the logistics of those things in

00:43:31.700 front of them, they miss a lot of those opportunities the way, because they're not

00:43:35.280 paying attention to the marketing side and to the opportunities around them for markets that they

00:43:43.320 can fill. So rewind the podcast and listen to that part again, and you'll get a lot of insight on,

00:43:50.140 on growth. The way I look at this, Sean, and I heard this, I heard this analogy one time and I'll ask you.

00:43:57.440 Okay. So let me give you a scenario. You are fairly new in the hunting world and you have a couple

00:44:07.080 options here. You can either choose in this made up scenario, you can either choose to have the

00:44:13.940 absolute best gun on the market with the best optics and the most beautiful crafted gun and machined

00:44:22.160 gun. And it's a hundred percent accurate. It's just this amazing firearm. But in order to have

00:44:27.600 that, you have to trade off a little bit of skillset, meaning, you know, you're new, you don't really know

00:44:32.420 what you're doing. It's going to be hard to, to, you know, navigate being out in the woods. You're

00:44:36.720 doing it alone. Okay. So that's scenario one. Scenario two is you have this old rifle. It's banged up,

00:44:44.020 it's beat up, it's been used. It it'll shoot, it'll hunt. Uh, you know, you can kill a deer with

00:44:49.560 it, but it's not awesome. It's kind of banged up a little bit. It's older technology, but if you want

00:44:56.180 that, then you get the skillset and the skillset is, you know, where to find deer, you know how to

00:45:01.080 find them, you know how to stock them. You, and, and, and you've got that side dialed in, which option

00:45:06.720 do you choose? Better gun, more skillset. Always skillset. Always the skillset. A hundred percent.

00:45:13.540 If you say anything else, I'm sorry, you're an idiot. You're always going to go for the skillset.

00:45:18.460 Right. So that's the point I'm making is you don't need the perfect product.

00:45:24.140 You need to develop the skillset to be able to market the product. And the, the one that came to

00:45:29.380 mind is if I wanted to get, for example, into detailing cars, hypothetically, I'll just throw this one out

00:45:35.220 here. I wanted to detail cars. I don't need all the best vacuums and cleaners and tools and this,

00:45:41.400 I don't need all that. I need to get really, really good at marketing. And then I need to do

00:45:45.740 a good job. Probably not the best job because I don't have all the technology, but I need to do a

00:45:49.880 90%, 95% job. And then once I start getting clientele, because I'm a good marketer and I do a

00:45:55.600 decent job, then I can invest. Okay. I'm going to upgrade my vacuum. Okay. Now I'm going to upgrade

00:46:00.580 these tools. Now I'm going to do a little research on what the best cleaners are to use.

00:46:05.760 And you can figure it out. Like I can buy, I can go to Walmart today and buy everything I need for

00:46:11.340 probably less than $500 to do a decent detailing job. Now I want to get to the point where my

00:46:17.360 equipment is worth five grand or 10 grand, but right now I can do it with 500. And that's the point I

00:46:21.980 want to make to you now is minimal viable product, whatever it is you're doing, car detailing,

00:46:27.240 doing a podcast, teaching people how to shoot firearms, teaching people, jujitsu,

00:46:32.700 whatever, painting, cooking, name it. Minimum viable product. If people are interested in that,

00:46:39.000 you start to invest in it. People are interested in that, invest a little bit more, a little bit

00:46:42.700 more, a little bit more, a little bit more. And then before you know it, become the expert

00:46:45.900 on car detailing or firearms training or self-defense or fill in the blank with your

00:46:51.040 passion of choice. I like it. There's the only one thing I'd add to that.

00:46:55.860 When you mentioned perfect product, always know there is no perfect product.

00:47:01.020 Yeah.

00:47:01.240 There's no one best thing or, or you're trying to build to having the perfect product. You

00:47:04.680 mentioned getting a better vacuum, getting a better cleaners, getting better, all that stuff.

00:47:08.560 There might be some better ones here and there for different things, but they're, none of them

00:47:11.880 are perfect. None of them do everything the best. So you're never going to have that. So you're

00:47:17.060 always better off working on, I call it people and in our business, I delegate everything. That's not

00:47:25.000 people. And I focus on the people side. And we're talking, like we said, marketing, all the human

00:47:31.320 nature stuff, the people issues, people problems, you help that and solve that. Everything else

00:47:38.020 falls into place eventually. So your focus should be there.

00:47:42.000 I like that. I had a, I had a, a young, a young, I'll say a young lady, a young lady that I used to

00:47:49.360 work with when I was doing retail management and she was having a really bad day. I could tell she

00:47:55.080 was like off her game. She was usually, she was usually amazing, amazing, excuse me. And she was

00:48:00.160 an off, off game. Like I was in clothing and she was leaving clothing around and she was missing

00:48:04.480 clients and not upselling. And like, she was just having an off day. And I got after her a little bit

00:48:10.000 more than maybe I should have. Like I, I laid into her a little bit. I'm like, what's your

00:48:13.780 problem? Like put all these clothes away. What do you do? Like, I was more frustrated than I should

00:48:17.360 have been with her. And she started crying and ran in the back room. And I'm like, what's she crying

00:48:23.780 about? Like women, girls, oh my gosh, they're crying over nothing. And my manager, her name is

00:48:29.880 Stacy. He's like, hold on, chill out. Hold on a second. Like, let's go figure out what's going on.

00:48:35.540 And I'm like, why? She just needs to put the clothes away. Why just do it? Like I don't know what the

00:48:39.100 problem is. And Stacy is like, and I, and I love Stacy for these reasons, but she's like, just

00:48:44.220 wait, hold on. So she went back there and talked with this young woman. And if I remember, if I

00:48:51.760 remember right, it was her grandmother. It was, it was a, it was a close family member had just died

00:48:56.260 either the day before that day. I just died. And I blew up at her because I thought it was a

00:49:05.420 performance issue. And Stacy said, well, it's not a performance issue. It's a, it's a human,

00:49:09.840 it's a human issue. There's like something else. Like she's a performer. We know that about her.

00:49:14.200 Something else is going on here. We need to figure it out. So she went back there and talked with her

00:49:18.180 and she was so empathetic. And all the people that worked with her loved, loved her, Stacy,

00:49:22.740 including me. Like she was a great manager. And I think she must probably sent her home that day

00:49:29.900 or whatever, talked with her, had some empathy, had some kindness and care, which I lacked at the

00:49:36.560 time for her and sent her home. And she came back, you know, a week later or whatever it was. And it

00:49:40.700 was fine. She was awesome. Back to performance and probably better. So because, and probably a better

00:49:45.320 connection with her manager, Stacy at the time, because of the level of empathy. And I think this

00:49:49.920 goes to the point that you're sharing, and this is a little bit off subject, but human relationship

00:49:54.140 is the most important thing. The money and all that kind of stuff that will follow.

00:49:59.500 But when you have a human connection with somebody, I'll give you another example.

00:50:02.800 Oftentimes we have guys who join the iron council and then they have to leave for whatever reason,

00:50:08.520 maybe they have financial hardship or it's not getting the benefit they need or whatever.

00:50:12.100 And a lot of the times their billing will have just gone through and they'll message me and

00:50:16.920 they'll say, Hey Ryan, like I'm planning on leaving the iron council. Is it possible for me to get a

00:50:20.640 refund? Well, technically I don't have to offer that, right? They knew they set up on reoccurring

00:50:26.200 billing. I don't have to offer a refund. Like if they missed it, that's on them. And part of me says,

00:50:30.400 Hey, you need some accountability here. But the other part of me is I don't know what they're dealing

00:50:34.080 with. You know, maybe they're late on their car payment. I'd rather them make their car payment

00:50:39.020 than having to worry about an extra $90 that could have gone to put food on the table or a car payment.

00:50:46.160 And so I try to be as empathetic with these guys as possible. And I'm not sure that

00:50:49.920 in the last nine years, there's a case. There might've been one or two based on some circumstances,

00:50:55.080 but 99% of the time, like, yeah, of course we'll give you a refund. Cause I'm not,

00:50:59.380 it's not about the money. It's about the person. What is that person dealing with? What is that

00:51:04.400 person experiencing? Why can't this person afford the $97 a month right now? Like that's the bigger

00:51:09.480 issue. And when I offer that level of empathy and human connection, those guys come back or they

00:51:17.400 share, you know, they couldn't join, or you'll see it in the Facebook group. I had to leave for

00:51:21.360 financial reasons, but man, that was the best investment I ever made. And they're recruiting

00:51:26.120 people to what we're doing. That money stuff, man, that, that stuff will get taken care of.

00:51:30.740 You worry more about the human connection with people and you'll never have to worry about

00:51:35.280 wanting or growing a business or any of these things that we're talking about.

00:51:39.080 Yep. Perfect. Next question is from Brent Wardell. What is the one daily habit that has stood out that

00:51:48.560 helped move the needle in your life in the direction you crafted in your vision?

00:51:52.460 Oh, that's easy for me. It's this right here. If you guys can't see this,

00:51:55.540 cause you're listening instead of watching it's the battle planner. It's, this is easy.

00:51:59.600 Like this is a no brainer. I know so many men who do not plan out their day.

00:52:04.680 They're not thinking about what they need to get done. They're kind of just going at it

00:52:08.100 willy nilly haphazard, letting other people dictate what their life's about. Let their wife

00:52:11.880 tell them what they need to do. Let their boss dictate all their projects. Guys, if you can find

00:52:16.560 a way, and I'm not, I don't even need to get into this necessarily, but what I'm telling you right

00:52:20.280 now with the battle planner is that you need to have a planning tool. And I don't care if it's just

00:52:25.500 like a, like a piece of paper that you, that you write notes on. Okay. Write it down,

00:52:32.680 write down what needs to get done, write down what you want to accomplish. And at the end of the day,

00:52:37.180 document it. Hey, here's what I got done. Check that off. Check that off. Check that off. Check

00:52:42.140 that off. I started that one, but didn't finish it because I'm waiting on a phone call back.

00:52:45.380 That one, I didn't even start. Good. Roll it over to the next day. The more intentionally you are in

00:52:50.280 the morning about planning out your day and the evening. So for example, even evening, I'm not just

00:52:55.120 talking about professionally, but in the evening I pull up my, the app, Johnny Loretty is my fitness

00:53:01.160 and nutritionist, fitness coach and nutritionist. And every night I pull this up and I look at what

00:53:06.420 I'm going to be doing for the workout the next morning. And I go into my closet and I put out

00:53:11.540 my workout clothes and I fold them with my shoes and my socks, my workout clothes. And I put them

00:53:15.280 right on the shelf by themselves, right there, ready to go. I've got my drink in, in the freezer,

00:53:20.920 in the fridge, the cold water the night before in the fridge, I've got my pre-workout in the cabinet.

00:53:27.060 So that when I get up in the morning, I wake up, brush my teeth, wake up a little bit, wipe the

00:53:31.600 stuff out of my eyes, get changed, go into there, grab my water out of the fridge, pour the discipline

00:53:36.260 in into it, pre-workout. And I go hit the gym and I already know what I'm doing.

00:53:41.740 No guesswork. There's no guesswork. There was no guesswork about what we were doing today,

00:53:46.680 Sean. There's no guesswork about what other podcasts I have today. There's no guesswork about

00:53:51.160 what am I going to do if I'm bored? I'm not bored. I know exactly what I'm going to do at any given

00:53:55.480 moment of every given day and having that plan in place and then reviewing and recapping at the end

00:54:00.080 of the day is the most important thing every guy should be doing.

00:54:04.040 Man, mine's exactly the same. Mine, two decades before coming into the Iron Council,

00:54:10.140 I called it my business plan. And where I got it for the first time, I was 22 and someone told me to

00:54:16.240 read Think and Grow Rich. And I think of Grow Rich, it says, know exactly what you want,

00:54:21.260 know when you want it by the date by which you when you want it, know what you intend to give

00:54:29.400 in return. And then write that down and then read it out loud twice a day. And so that became my

00:54:39.860 business plan. And it's evolved over it evolved over two decades. And one of the reasons that I got

00:54:46.260 into the Iron Council was I also was feeling kind of flat where, I mean, you know this, like I've

00:54:54.680 been business partners with Ed Milet for 25 years, right? So he's been one of my personal mentors

00:54:59.320 for 25 years. And so you figure, oh, if you're around that guy, he's mentoring you, you're just

00:55:05.100 always going to do awesome. But after two decades, I don't care who you hear from, like, sometimes you

00:55:09.680 just need to maybe hear it a little different or see it a little different. And so that's what happened

00:55:14.880 with me. I got in the IC and it made me sharp again. But what I started doing was instead of

00:55:20.140 the business plan the way that I used to do it, I started doing the battle plan. And one thing I

00:55:25.640 want to point out is for guys not watching this, because I can see you, you could see me, I'm

00:55:30.140 assuming most of them listen to this. As soon as you said it, not only did you mention the battle

00:55:34.960 planner, you have it with you. So it's right there. You held it up. You have it in front of you all the

00:55:40.540 time. So at minimum, you need to be reading it and seeing it out loud, you know, or in front of you

00:55:48.600 twice a day, at minimum morning and night. I mean, that's what it says in Think It Grow Rich. That's

00:55:53.640 the way I've always done. Every successful person I've ever talked to, if you ask them for this secret,

00:55:59.280 that's what they do. They know exactly what their goals are. They have them in front of them that a

00:56:03.800 couple times a day, they're looking at them, reading them, you know, the best guys are doing it

00:56:08.880 kind of out loud. And like mine's right here on the wall. It's in my barn. I'm in here multiple

00:56:15.140 times a day, but I'm in here every morning, every night. I also have it up in my, in my bathroom,

00:56:22.040 in my house. And it's there, it's in front of me. It's my whole battle planner and my tactics,

00:56:28.020 what I'm doing daily. And then, like you said, that turns in to those habits. So all of the most

00:56:35.120 effective habits that you'll have in your life, start with that plan. Because with the plan in

00:56:39.840 front of you, you start saying, okay, my goal is to have this and do this, but I suck at this. I suck

00:56:45.940 at the process to get there. So what do I need to do? Oh, I need to pre-plan my day. I need to,

00:56:50.560 you know, and then pre-planning your day becomes, well, what's the most effective things I need to do

00:56:54.540 in this day? I need to get my workouts in. I need to eat better. I need to do this, right? And okay,

00:57:00.320 so what do I need to implement to have that? So as you were saying your thing of how you lay

00:57:05.620 your clothes out and all that stuff, I was like thinking of my routine. I have the same thing.

00:57:10.420 I know, I don't want to wake up my wife in the morning. I have to get up at five 30 and take my,

00:57:14.600 one of my kids to seminary and all that stuff. And so I lay out all my clothes out on the couch in

00:57:20.000 the living room every morning. I have all those out there cause I don't want to wake her up.

00:57:23.640 Right. So I sneak out and, and I, I go have all my food, same thing. Like you said,

00:57:29.840 I have all my vitamins, all that stuff is laid out, ready to go. So I'm doing all of that and

00:57:35.300 all that's done before I even take my kids to a seminary, right? Like it's already planned and,

00:57:41.300 and pre-done. And then when I get back, I have this gap where I can be effective. So whether it's

00:57:46.280 reading books, whether it's journaling, planning other things throughout the day, stuff like, you

00:57:50.800 know, most people are sleeping. So what can I get done that needs to be done that I isn't people,

00:57:56.840 right? So that when people are awake, I can do the people stuff. And again, it's just pre-planning

00:58:02.800 and going through, and that's created a lot of these habits that I don't even think about anymore.

00:58:09.060 No, it's just ingrained into who you are.

00:58:11.140 But I didn't do any of them. I didn't, I sucked at all of them. And the reason I'm good is because

00:58:18.260 more than anything, a couple times a day, it's in front of me and all of it's important. And just

00:58:25.900 automatically, subconsciously, your brain's going to start moving. We talked about those opportunities,

00:58:31.440 how most people miss them. They miss the opportunities because their vision's not clear.

00:58:35.400 Their goals aren't clear. They haven't reminded themselves of those things. But if you're

00:58:39.360 constantly reminding yourself a couple of times a day, you're not going to miss those opportunities.

00:58:44.660 They're going to be very clear when they show up to you in your life. So that's awesome that you

00:58:49.800 said it because the exact thing. So I love it. I think most, most successful people are that way.

00:58:54.180 Well, Sean, let's do this. We're, we're bumping up a little bit against time. Let's do,

00:58:57.600 I know there's two or three questions left. I'd like to answer those. Let's do just rapid fire on

00:59:01.680 these questions and we'll get them answered. We'll do it. We'll do it good. We'll make sure we give you

00:59:05.240 good answers, but we'll do a rapid fire on these ones. All right. Nathan Struble,

00:59:09.240 what is the significance of being a peacemaker versus a peacekeeper? I've heard that a peacemaker

00:59:14.840 is better. And even in the sermon on the mail, Jesus says, blessed are the peacemakers.

00:59:21.320 Yeah. Well, I just think, look, we might be some playing some semantical games here,

00:59:25.620 but I think if we want to look at what, maybe not the definition of them, but at least the way I

00:59:29.560 understand it, a peacemaker, doesn't that just sound more intentional? I'm keeping the peace and

00:59:34.520 like, just like, make sure everything like placate everybody, make sure everybody's okay. And like,

00:59:38.960 you know, I don't have any opinion about it. And I don't like, just, I don't want any confrontation.

00:59:43.720 That's so passive. People want to hear. Right. But a peacemaker is actively assertively

00:59:48.960 working towards something. I pulled up something here, the definition of peace, freedom from

00:59:53.080 disturbance or tranquility. That's never happens in life. You're never going to be free from

00:59:59.360 disturbance or have some sort of tranquility in your life. There's always going to be challenge

01:00:03.300 and our ability to tackle that, to anticipate what the disturbance of peace might be.

01:00:12.420 That's, that's, that's our, that's how we create or make peace. Okay. I know that there's

01:00:19.860 economic turmoil I'll need to deal with. I know that, you know, as my children get older,

01:00:24.880 they're going to have their own challenges that they're going to struggle with and go through.

01:00:28.860 And I need to be able to be aware of those and walk them through them. So I think a peacemaker

01:00:33.160 relative to a peacekeeper is somebody who thinks a little bit further ahead and then actively is

01:00:39.340 engaged in doing things that help him overcome hurdles and obstacles. I know that at some point,

01:00:47.860 fortunately, I haven't dealt with many health conditions. I'm 42 years old. I know that at

01:00:52.000 some point my body will break down more than it is now that I'll have to work harder. I'll need to

01:00:56.900 be more aware of the foods that I'm taking in, that I might be diagnosed with cancer at some point,

01:01:02.280 like that's going to happen. So in order to be, what does it say? Free from disturbance. In this case,

01:01:08.600 physical disturbance, I need to get up. I need to work out. I need to feel my body correctly.

01:01:14.060 That's peacemaking versus, Oh, I just hope everything's okay. And nothing really happens.

01:01:19.400 And we'll just bury our heads in the sand. If something does, that's a difference to me.

01:01:23.640 Yeah, I agree. It's like Gandhi said, be the change you want to see in the world. If you're,

01:01:28.900 if you're actively showing up and you treat people well, you love people, you, you know,

01:01:34.320 you treat them the way they're supposed to be treated, regardless of what they look like,

01:01:38.320 their sexual preference, any of that stuff. And you look at these companies that are trying too hard,

01:01:43.140 the ones that are reaching too hard, that are doing what you're saying, kind of trying to find

01:01:47.000 things to say, to get people on board, to make them feel more diverse are the ones that are

01:01:52.400 failing. But the people that are just treating everybody well, they are naturally and organically

01:01:58.060 becoming more diverse. You know, it's like, I'd look at, I'd mentioned the event I just did.

01:02:03.280 We had 1700 people. We had every type of person speaking, right? Like, like skinny, fat, tall,

01:02:09.220 short, black, white, brown, Indian, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, like you name it. We had

01:02:15.520 them all speaking, right? Lesbian, gay, like any of that stuff. They were all speaking. They're all

01:02:20.600 great. They were, they all had value to bring and they're all awesome. But the way, the reason they

01:02:25.600 spoke is not because they were gay, not because they were black, not because they were, you know,

01:02:31.660 oh, we weren't like, oh, we need a gay person up there. We're like, no, who's the best at that?

01:02:35.920 Olivia is the best at that. Like she's going to speak, right? Who's the best at that? Erica is

01:02:40.500 the best at this. She's going to do this. Right. And so it's like, naturally we're diverse because

01:02:45.580 we're finding the best people, not caring what they look like and just treating people, right?

01:02:52.460 Looking for the people that are those best examples and they're going to show up. They're

01:02:56.260 just going to happen to have these different things about them. I mean, that's the diversity that

01:03:01.880 matters, not what your skin color is or your sexual preference or how tall or short or skinny

01:03:06.880 or fat that some of those, some of those are immutable characteristics, you know, but basing

01:03:12.960 diversity off of your skin color, your hair color, your eye color. That's how absurd skin color is.

01:03:17.920 It's like, well, it's, but that's, that would be like saying, I want blue eyed people. That's absurd.

01:03:23.440 That's not diversity. I mean, I guess technically it's diversity in your physical eye color,

01:03:28.120 but not diversity that actually matters. All right. What's next?

01:03:32.960 Tim Phillips. How would you explain the IC to the wife's girlfriend, significant others who

01:03:37.500 maybe don't understand what's going on here? Oh, I think that's a good question. I think it's

01:03:41.820 easy. You just frame it in the context of what they want. Like she wants you to be a more engaged

01:03:45.620 husband. She wants you to be more engaged father. She wants you to be perform better at work. Like

01:03:51.060 that's what she wants. And that's, that's not bad. Like I want things from my partner. She wants

01:03:55.380 things from me, but isn't bad. And in fact, it should be congruent. Like our values and

01:04:00.800 our desires should align. If she wants the same things I want, I want the same thing she

01:04:04.300 wants to give. Like that's a good relationship. But I think if you frame it that way and you

01:04:09.300 say, Hey, you know, I'm, I'm joining this group or this organization and it's helping

01:04:13.380 me to learn how to communicate more effectively with you so we can have a better partnership

01:04:17.760 or we meet every week. And there's this channel in the iron council that talks about

01:04:22.460 fatherhood and we share ideas about, you know, like cool ideas to take our kids on trips

01:04:27.920 or how to communicate them what they're dealing with something hard or how to discipline our

01:04:32.440 kids in an empathetic way that will actually help them grow and develop. So you just share

01:04:37.580 it into the context of what she wants, because if you strip all of that away, it's really just

01:04:43.760 costly and time consuming. Yeah.

01:04:46.720 It costs money and it takes your time away from the family. That's probably not a great

01:04:51.500 way to explain it. So I look at it as an investment. You're investing time and money

01:04:56.560 and resources into something that will yield a greater return in some element or all of

01:05:01.240 your life. How do you love on your wife better? How do you raise your kids more effectively?

01:05:05.940 How do you grow your business? How do you become fit so that you have more energy for her and

01:05:10.160 your kids? Always, always frame it. And by the way, this is not just iron council exclusive.

01:05:15.140 If you're talking with a client, I don't really care about all the bells and features

01:05:19.860 of your product. What I care about is what that bell and feature are going to do to make

01:05:24.720 my life better. And the more this again, marketing one-on-one, how do I solve your problems? So

01:05:32.620 if your wife's like, I don't know if you should be investing in this and you think you should

01:05:36.240 don't convince her that this is good for you. She doesn't care about that. What she cares

01:05:41.700 about is how is this good for us? How is this good for the family? Why are we taking money

01:05:46.040 away and time and investing here when we could be putting it here? You better be able to sell

01:05:50.900 that case based on what she wants, not what you want or what you think she wants.

01:05:56.060 That was good. See, I'm too much of a smart ass. My answer would be, babe,

01:06:00.320 first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club.

01:06:04.960 Well, you know, you're being a smart ass, but I'll tell you one thing, Sean, that I know about you and

01:06:12.520 your relationship is, and I know you're joking, but some guys can afford to say things like that

01:06:19.880 because you put so much, so many deposits into the relational bank account that she's not going to

01:06:27.540 question why you're spending money on this. Yeah. And I was totally kidding. Like I, I know you're

01:06:35.660 kidding, but I want, but think about that for a second, because if other guys said that

01:06:40.160 and they've done other things and they failed and they haven't followed through and like if other

01:06:45.100 guys say that, that's not, that's going to be a problem. Yeah. And, and that's why I said,

01:06:50.420 I wouldn't add, I think you nailed it. I would say that you said it would, if you look at it,

01:06:56.000 really, it takes away from time from your family. That's true, but only in the beginning. Cause if you

01:07:01.740 do it right, that's only temporary. At first, it's going to take more time and effort in away from

01:07:07.400 the family, maybe from other things because you need to be around it and hear it and learn it.

01:07:13.360 But once you start applying the things that you learn here, it's actually going to add more time

01:07:17.820 and value to the family. Yeah. So yeah. The other thing too, on that, and then I'll let you get to

01:07:23.900 that last question is sometimes people will say that with regards to fitness, you're like, Oh, I care.

01:07:28.500 I really want to be healthy, but I care about my family too much. I'm like, yeah, that's a cute story.

01:07:32.840 Like you're hiding behind your wife and your kids to be a fat slob real cute. Like that's not

01:07:38.300 going to work out very well. So get your ass up early, right? Your kids are going to be sleeping.

01:07:44.940 Get up at five, get up at five 30, go put in 45 minutes and then hurry and get back before your

01:07:50.320 kids even wake up. Well, but then I'm cutting into my sleep. Go to bed earlier. Yeah. But my kids stay

01:07:56.660 up later, put them to bed earlier. They need to be, they need to have sleep anyways. Get them on a

01:08:01.200 schedule, get them on a routine. Don't, don't hide behind the excuse of like, Oh, I care about

01:08:07.080 my family too much. That's why I can't take care of myself. I hate that stuff. People like hide being

01:08:12.480 not hiding. I call it like we use our family as an excuse. Your family should be the reason dude,

01:08:17.220 not your excuse of why you can't do it. That should be the exact reason why you go out and

01:08:22.560 be better is so that you could be more productive with them so that you could, I mean, you say it all the

01:08:28.120 time. Right. I wanted to start doing this because I couldn't jump on a trampoline with my kid made me

01:08:33.280 realize. So that was your reason to be better. Not your excuse of like, Oh, I guess I can't do this.

01:08:39.280 Right. I guess I'm just too fat to play with my kids. Like, yeah, that's all I'm going to do. Don't

01:08:45.360 get me. No, I like that. I wrote that down. Use your family as a reason, not an excuse. I like that.

01:08:50.240 Yeah. Okay. Last one, Rick Blalock, any news on the next order of man legacy event?

01:08:56.720 Oh, no, I had my legacy shirt on today. Actually. Yeah. One of my legacy shirts on. No. So our legacy

01:09:05.560 is a father son event. So I don't have the dates on that, but I will later probably in the next two

01:09:10.620 to three weeks, but we do have one event, the uprising, which is May 2nd through the 5th. I think

01:09:16.120 we only have eight spots as of today available. That's May 2nd through the 5th. That one's not a

01:09:21.080 father son one. That is 20 men. We'll all be in Southern Utah. We're going to hold each other

01:09:25.520 accountable. We're going to do a lot of planning going through this to make sure you're the rest

01:09:29.240 of your year is lined out. We're going to do some fun stuff, some physical activities. We're going to

01:09:33.640 push and compete with each other a little bit. It's an event we haven't done for six years. And I just

01:09:38.820 secured the place here in Southern Utah. It's awesome. So if you are interested in an event, again,

01:09:44.040 that's not the father son one, it's the uprising event. Again, eight spots. You can go to

01:09:48.780 order of man.com slash uprising. Cause I'm very, very excited about that event.

01:09:53.920 Cool. And then for just for the legacy, as far as thought process, cause I know you still have

01:09:58.800 your place in Maine. Will that be in Maine or are you going to do that in Southern Utah? Also,

01:10:02.040 you think I haven't decided yet. Yeah. I haven't decided we have, obviously we can do an East coast

01:10:06.700 and Maine, which probably we'll do the main event out there, but then, um, probably keep the father son

01:10:12.760 event here, but I haven't fully decided yet or we'll, we'll figure that one out. Cool. Well,

01:10:18.560 like always good show today. Good show. Good conversation, Sean. I appreciate you. I always

01:10:23.680 value our friendship and your insight guys. Hopefully you got some good stuff from this

01:10:27.920 and it serves you ultimately, you know, we, we talk a lot and we app a lot and we flap our gums,

01:10:32.420 but it's important that we put this stuff into practice. So please do, uh, if you have any questions

01:10:37.680 or thoughts or concerns or comments or whatever, uh, hit me up on Instagram at Ryan Mickler or

01:10:43.720 Ryan at order of man.com. I'll respond. I'll get those answered and we'll keep driving on anything

01:10:49.120 else, Sean. No, just glad to be here. All right, guys, go out there, take action, become the man.

01:10:55.000 You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge

01:11:00.880 of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:11:05.200 at order of man.com.

Order of Man - January 24, 2024

Why You Should Hunt, Eliminate Expectations, and Focus on Skills Over Tools ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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