Winning the War with Coronavirus ｜ DR. GREGORY POLAND
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 4 minutes
Words per Minute
175.81522
Summary
Dr. Gregory Poland is a Professor of Medicine at the Mayo Clinic and Director of the Clinic's Vaccination Research Group. In this episode, Dr. Poland talks about common misconceptions about the coronavirus, the best approach to dealing with this threat, how vaccines are being developed, the eventuality of this disease, how this virus differs from others, and ultimately, how we will win the war against coronaviruses.
Transcript
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Obviously the world is entering unprecedented and uncharted territory. Every day we're hearing
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new information about the coronavirus. Some of it of course is credible and some of it is not
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so credible. It's times like these that we need to turn to the experts and look for answers and
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solutions to the problems that we face. That's why I'm honored to be joined by Dr. Gregory Poland.
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He's a professor of medicine at the Mayo Clinic and director of the Mayo Clinic's vaccine research
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group. Today we talk about common misconceptions about the coronavirus, the best approach to
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dealing with this threat, how vaccines are being developed, the eventuality of this disease,
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how this virus differs from others, and ultimately how we'll win the war against coronavirus.
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your
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own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not easily
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deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is
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who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself
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a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler and I am the host and the founder of
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this podcast and the Order of Man movement. If you've been listening for any amount of time,
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you know that I'm a little bit off here with the release of this interview because it's Thursday
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and normally I release interviews on Tuesday, which I will continue to do, but had the opportunity to
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interview my guest today. And because the information is so timely, I wanted to get this
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out to you immediately. So you're getting an extra podcast this week. So congratulations.
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Hopefully you enjoy this episode and the conversation that we have, which again is,
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is timely and much needed information. I am going to get to that in just a minute, but I want to
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mention our show sponsors really quick. And it sounds a little funny in times like these to be
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talking about our show sponsors and business and everything else. But there's a reason that I want
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to talk with you about origin outside of their denim and their jeans and their nutritional supplements
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and everything I normally talk about. If you've been following them for any amount of time, or even
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just over the past week, you'll see that they are in the process of developing. In fact, as of now,
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they have developed, it's called the defender mask. And essentially it's kind of like a neck gaiter
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that you pull up over your face and has a compartment, a sleeve where you can insert a mask or other
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material. It's not the end all save all, but Pete Roberts over there has, is a visionary. Of course,
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I've known that for a long time, but he took this idea and the call from the CDC to step up and has done
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that with his organization. So they're available now. They're very, very inexpensive. He could have
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marked them up and everything else. He did not do that because of his desire to serve the public and
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to help provide solutions to the problems that we're dealing with right now. So if you're interested
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in these masks or their story, again, all of this is a hundred percent made in America. The first day
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they cranked out, I want to say maybe 700 or so, if I remember correctly. And I'm sure at this point
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with their efficiencies, they're well over a thousand units per day that they're cranking out. In fact,
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I talked to him, uh, just a couple of nights ago and he said that they are, uh, selling one every
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second. That's the rate at which they're going right now. So, uh, if you are interested in checking
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that out, make sure you do that. And then I saw another video this morning, uh, and he'll be on
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Instagram later with me today where they're making a protective shields as well. Uh, they're developing
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those currently. So pretty incredible stuff. Um, go check it out if you're interested. And even if
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you're not, I mean, just a really, really compelling story about the power of, uh, small business,
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the power of community, the power of coming up with solutions. And, uh, it's, it's very inspiring
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to, to see and to be a very, very small part of it. I'm, I'm just happy to be able to share
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this stuff with you. So go check it out. Origin, main.com origin, main.com. All right, guys,
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let's get into the conversation. Uh, again, I'm joined by Dr. Gregory Poland. He is the Mary
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Lowell Leary professor of medicine at the Mayo clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Uh, he's also
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the director of the Mayo clinics vaccine research group. Uh, we're going to talk a little bit
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about that in the podcast and editor in chief of the medicine journal vaccine. Uh, in addition,
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if that's not enough, he's got a pretty impressive resume. Uh, he previously served as the president
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of the health defense board and is the recipient of the secretary of defense. This is medal of
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outstanding public service, uh, with more than 30 years of work in the field of viruses and vaccines
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right now, him and his team are currently using, uh, testing and strategies and everything that he's
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learned over almost three decades, uh, to develop a vaccine for COVID-19. I hope you enjoy the
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conversation, Jen. Dr. Poland. Thanks for joining me on the podcast. My pleasure. Yeah. Looking forward
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to the discussion. Uh, there is obviously a lot of information going on, uh, now regarding, uh,
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coronavirus and a lot of, uh, rumors and some, uh, verified information, but I figured it'd be good
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to, uh, just get to the heart of the matter and really discuss with an expert as opposed to all the
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random thoughts that people have in times like these. I think it's also probably pretty, uh, pretty
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typical that people start to fill in the blanks if they don't have the information. Is that right?
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Yeah, exactly. And you see a lot of self-proclaimed experts and a lot of people who have a political
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or financial agenda sort of try to jump in on it. Yeah. Yeah. It seems to me that's the case. And I
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also think there's probably a lot of, uh, fear that comes into play as well. You know, I think as,
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as human beings, if there's something that is uncertain or unknown, we're constantly trying to
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put all these little pieces of the puzzle together, even though it's not based on accurate and factual
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data, which I think is important in this context. Yep. Well said. Can you tell me a little bit about,
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uh, what it is you do? And then that'll give us some context for the rest of the discussion.
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Sure. So, uh, I'm a physician scientist at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.
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I'm the director of the Mayo vaccine research group there. I'm the editor of our journal. I spent 20
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years advising the department of defense on issues like this. So this is a virus we're familiar with,
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RNA viruses. And this is one of them are something I've spent, uh, 35 years studying. So, uh, we have
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a lot of information, but not as much as we'd like. Yeah, that's the thing. And it seems like
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everywhere you turn, there seems to be conflicting data and information, which again, I think is
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typical, especially when you have so many people talking about it. I think this is probably,
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I was going to say the first time, but really where we have this mass exposure to information
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via social media and everyone has a platform relative to some of these, uh, pandemics that
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we've dealt with in the past. Yeah. I think it's kind of a unique, uh, period of time in that regard.
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Yeah. So what is it that, uh, you generally, and we can get more into the specifics here,
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but what is it that you are finding that is different? And I don't want to put words in
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your mouth. I would use the word alarming, but maybe that's not a word you'd use. I'd like to
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hear your perspective on this virus. Yeah. Um, well, you know, just a statistic that I pulled up,
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uh, to tell your listeners about, it took 67 days for, to reach the first 100,000 cases in the world.
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It took 11 days for the next 100,000. It took just four days for this last 100,000. So this is
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a fast moving infection. I think, uh, I don't know exactly the age demographics for, for your
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listening audience, but let's assume they're probably somewhere in the 18 to 60s plus year old,
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uh, age group. There's this misperception that this is not a serious disease for younger people,
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so-called iGens and millennials, et cetera. That is a misperception. It's true that 80% of the deaths
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are occurring in people 65 and older, but in terms of hospitalization, 40, 40% of the first 2,500
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hospitalizations due to COVID-19 in the U S were in people 20 to 54 years old. The other thing that
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we're seeing is that people who have a lot of, uh, what we would call comorbid medical problems,
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people who are obese, who are smokers, diabetics, who have heart disease, lung disease, which often
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is a lifestyle choice. Not always, certainly not type one diabetes or anything like that.
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And there can be genetic reasons for that. But, you know, we have become a nation of individuals
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that are not very fit. Uh, when I was president of the defense health board, just recently,
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there was a report issued called too fat to fight. And unbelievably, this was a real eye opener. 66%
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of the younger generation in the U S that's draft age eligible. So that age range, two thirds of them,
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there are either too obese to join the military, have substance abuse or mental health issues that
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would prevent that. Now put a pandemic around that. And you begin to see serious disease deaths,
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surge demand on the, on the health system. They can't be met. Yeah. I think that seems to be one
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of the biggest problems is I, I see these graphs and these, this information about the steep curve
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with the growing cases of, of COVID-19. And it seems to me that the whole social distancing,
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well, the major, uh, response or reason we're practicing social distancing is to flatten out
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that curve. Exactly right. Yeah. I just, uh, submitted a, an editorial for publication that
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has been accepted that goes through the reasoning behind this. And let me, let me just take listeners
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through that briefly and simply. Let's say you live in a hospital that has a 200 bed hospital.
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You live in a community with a 200 bed hospital. They might have five to 10 ICU beds, maybe three
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to five ventilators, limited numbers of specialists. If one or two people come in, say a week with COVID-19,
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they can handle that. Sure. Start having 20 or 50 people come in a week. They can't handle that.
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And the mortality rates skyrockets. So what, what younger people have to realize is they might not
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end up, they might not end up in the ICU, probably aren't going to die from it, but they've got family
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members, they've got neighbors, they've got school and work and church communities that are going to
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suffer from that. And so, uh, I find it remarkable state governors are actually having to make laws
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to enforce social distancing and to close down nightclubs and restaurants where this transmission
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easily occurs. I think one other misperception to correct, unlike SARS, this particular form
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can transmit before, you know, you have symptoms and that's different.
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Right. I mean, that's, that's really dangerous because I think if I understand correctly,
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it could take anywhere from 10 to 14 days to be symptomatic, which means that you've had almost
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two weeks of interacting with other individuals. Yeah. Or, or even longer. I mean, there's some
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case reports of even longer and, and that brings up Ryan, an important point that I think is really
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hard for people to understand. What you see now reflects what was going on with the disease 14 to
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30 days ago. So when we start to see cases come down, we don't want to make the mistake that's
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happening right now in Japan where they saw cases come down and say, well, let the kids go back to
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school. And I can guarantee you 14 to 30 days from now, we're going to see a big bolus of cases again.
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Is this, do you feel like this, I was talking with my wife about this this evening. Is this something
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that eventually everybody is going to contract the virus at some point and we'll just learn to
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build up the immunities at some point, I imagine we'll have some sort of vaccine against this.
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Is this inevitable? Well, we will have a vaccine. My lab is working on a vaccine. Other labs are too.
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The, the modeling studies have shown a prediction that 40 to 70% of us may become infected with this.
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Now, having said that there are four different Corona viruses that circulate
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every winter. Uh, every winter and that cause about 30% of cold. So all of us have had one or
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more Corona virus infections. Okay. This one's unique. This one is, is elegantly and efficiently
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adapted. Uh, you may have seen some cartoons of the virus. It's got these little spike proteins or S
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proteins. Those are like a, a key that's looking for a lock on the cell. And that receptor,
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once it inserts into that receptor, it's like a lock opening and the virus can enter into the cell
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and then it takes the cell over and uses your own cellular machinery to make virus and eventually kill
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some people. Yeah. I mean, this is it. Well, is this any different than the way that your traditional
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flu works? Uh, I know that we look at the death rates that tend to be slightly higher from what I've
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seen. I imagine part of that is because there's probably tens, if not hundreds of thousands of
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people who have COVID-19 that are, uh, not documented, uh, as tested positive for the virus
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itself. Right. And those death rates will go down. Yeah. You're, you're actually making a very
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important point, Ryan. Think of this as, as kind of a pyramid. Okay. We only know the top little peak
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of the pyramid, people who got sick enough to come to the hospital or for whatever reason got tested
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this big base of the pyramid. We have no idea. I mean, zero idea it's there. And it's probably
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extensive given how bad the peak of this has been, but we don't know the full extent of it. Now what's
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different about flu? Well, the case fatality rate with flu is about 10 fold or more lower than it is
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with this. So, so a difference there. The other thing is flu strains circulate all the time. We get
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flu vaccines. And so we do have some level of immunity usually. And where we see deaths from flu
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are the very, very young and the older people, pregnant women too, by the way, which is a different
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story and people who have chronic medical problems. So, uh, similar and yet different in other ways.
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Right. That makes sense. Are there, uh, it seems to me that, that we're taking more of,
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and I say, we, as in the U S taking more of a social distancing approach to flatten the curve.
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Uh, if I understand correctly, you contrast that with the UK, for example, which is let's isolate
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those who have compromised immune systems, the elderly. And then at some point, everybody's going
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to contract this. We're going to build up the immunities and it's going to work itself out. Do you see
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one being more advantageous than the other outside of the, uh, the medical system's ability to handle
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the cases? Yeah. I think the UK started to approach it differently. I've, I think they've done a pivot
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toward the direction that we're going. Now, I think part of that was based on the idea, well, um,
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develop a herd immunity, so to speak, and don't destroy the economy. Right. This is, this is going to
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hurt economically short term, but it's going to hurt economically. And I have framed the choice this
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way in the U S I think we have two choices. One is shut everything down now that isn't essential
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and use social distancing technology, the things you and I are doing right now that no generation
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could do before. Right. Or find out that the medical system will be overwhelmed. Some of the
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mathematical modeling studies suggest overwhelmed by eight fold over our actual capacity and then
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suffer the deaths as a result of that. I think the wisest thing to do is shut it down now, except for
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essential activities, particularly shield your most vulnerable, just like we would do in any other
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situation. And then as these cases slow down and stop, wait 14 to 30 days, sound the all clear,
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let the young people go back to work, be sure that we don't have a resurgence in cases, and then relax
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the requirements for everybody, especially your older, more vulnerable people.
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So let's say that we do take that route that you suggest. What is, what is the ultimate objective?
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I just, I'm having a hard time understanding why in, let's say 90 days or 120 days or whatever it is
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that everything will have subsided to some degree miraculously, or like how to, like, what is it that
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we would be waiting for over that, over the course of, of self-quarantining ourselves?
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Yeah. So the primary thing you're trying to do is drive death rate down by driving what's called
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the reproductive number down. So every virus has a reproductive number. With this virus, it's about
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2.4. What that means is if I got infected and I'm the average Joe, I'm going to infect 2.4 other people
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and they're going to infect 2.4. And this thing just keeps growing. If I can drive that down to less
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than one by social distancing, it dies out. So you're trying to prevent this surge demand. I mean,
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it's like a tsunami right now in New York and Italy and, and California from talking with my
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colleagues, they're overwhelmed. They're making choices like, well, if you're 80 or 75, we don't
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have a ventilator for you. Something no doctor ever wants to say to a patient. And you're trying to
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spread it out long enough that it either disappears or we start having antiviral antibody or vaccine
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countermeasures to, to defeat this thing. Now I'm using some words that hopefully will mean something
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to, to a lot of your listeners. To me, this is a war. Okay. What do you do in wartime? You take unusual
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measures. And often if we were talking about an offensive action, we would do whatever it takes
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to degrade the enemy's will to continue. Well, in a like way, now a virus doesn't have a brain,
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of course, but in a like way, are we going to take the measures, even though they are difficult,
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expensive, disruptive measures to protect our family, to protect our community in the best way
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we know how absent currently having any other biologic countermeasure.
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Yeah, that makes sense. Does, well, did this happen? Let's take, let's, let's go back a hundred
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plus years, the Spanish flu, for example, did it happen very much the same way? Obviously there was
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more social distancing just by the nature of not being able to transport and move as easily from
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continent to continent and everything else. Is that how the Spanish flu died out? Like, do we have
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a history of flus just dying out naturally? Yeah. Yeah, we do. And what happens is that they then
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become seasonal. So there are vestiges of the 1918 influenza that circulate today, parts of that
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viral genome. So that is one of the things that we wonder about. It's speculation with the seasonal
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coronaviruses. We see them in the fall and winter, then they disappear in the summer, come back in the
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fall and winter. Is that going to happen with this one? All we know is that in 2000, November of 2002,
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when SARS started, it stopped on its own in July of 03. And we've never seen it again. Now this virus
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is about 80 to 90% identical to what that SARS virus was in 2002, but has some critical differences.
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Sure. Yeah. That's really interesting. Does the, the body then also develop its own antibodies to be
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able to fight against these things? I guess I'm asking if once you contract COVID-19 and essentially
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defeat that virus, has the body then learned how to fight effectively against it? That's a really
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insightful question, actually. And the, the, the thinking on it is very mixed with the seasonal
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coronaviruses. You have immunity for months to maybe a year or two, and then you can get reinfected.
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SARS stopped on its own. MERS stopped, started, we have very few cases. So we don't know whether
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somebody could be reinfected. There's one study of monkeys where they infected four monkeys. They
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sacrificed one to see what the extent of disease was. The other three, they let recover for a month,
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only one month, re-challenged them, exposed them to the virus, and they were protected.
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So we know for a month you're good, but how much longer after that? We don't know.
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Well, I imagine, I mean, it's encouraging nonetheless to know that even in that timeframe,
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because you would imagine that it would go longer. It's just a question of how much longer that
00:21:48.320
Yeah. So then what does your work consist of? And, and I know we can't get into the nitty gritty,
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the very specifics of, of everything that you're doing, but generally, how do you begin to develop
00:22:00.020
vaccines and work towards creating solutions to these problems?
00:22:04.560
Well, we're, we're trying to advance the science. That's our goal. You know, I took an oath as a
00:22:09.620
physician and I intend to fulfill that oath. And that means I'm going to put myself in harm's way as a
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lot of other healthcare workers, a lot of first responders, a lot of military members. We put
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ourselves in harm's way because that's what we do. We signed up for that. So how do we start? We first
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want to know that base of the pyramid that you pointed out. We're going to look in our community
00:22:32.860
with testing that will be developed to say what, how, how many people are being infected and at what
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rate? The other thing of course is an interesting thing is once you know that somebody is infected
00:22:45.940
and presumably immune, you can deploy them. They can now be in the hospital on the front lines of this
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war with immunity. Now, how long, how long is one of the things we want to find out? The other thing is
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that this virus could very well act differently, depend on genetic variations in your own cell receptor
00:23:08.760
and your genetic background. That's one of the reasons perhaps that the Chinese had such a higher
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case fatality rate than we've experienced here in the U.S. There are other factors too, but that's one
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idea. So we want to actually sequence through the receptor on human cells to see what kind of variations
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are there and are they associated with different levels of severity of illness and of death. The other
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thing that we're doing is we developed some technology where we can actually see what your
00:23:45.220
human immune cells see, little fractions and pieces of the virus. And we're going to use that in a patented
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technology we developed to say, could we develop a vaccine that everybody could take? Not a live
00:24:00.240
attenuated vaccine that pregnant women and kids and immunocompromised people can't take,
00:24:06.040
but a vaccine that could be delivered to everybody. So we're just starting to identify the funding for
00:24:12.160
that and hopefully it'll be a go soon. Is that something that vaccine you're talking about where
00:24:17.860
it'll apply broadly, is that available in other vaccines? Is that something that has been done before?
00:24:24.380
Um, it has just, if you're, if you've read it all about some of the universal influenza vaccines,
00:24:30.540
some of the early studies have used that kind of idea and it worked. So we're hopeful. We're hopeful.
00:24:38.320
Yeah. I imagine you sit in an interesting position because you're talking about being hopeful and
00:24:43.000
optimistic and yet you're a scientist, which means that you look at the data and you try to be as
00:24:47.580
objective as you possibly can when it comes to measuring these things. It's a very interesting
00:24:51.740
position I imagine. Well, and it's, it's a tough one because, uh, I, in the last nine weeks, I don't
00:24:57.440
know, I've done probably 400 national and international interviews with every media outlet that you, you can
00:25:04.200
imagine. Um, by the way, we periodically do live Q and A's on an Instagram that my son actually helped
00:25:11.740
set up that Dr. Greg Poland. Um, but the people know where to go. All right. And, and the thing that we
00:25:18.380
sometimes have trouble with is you'll hear people say, well, such and such a drug combination really
00:25:24.580
looks like it's going to work. It's going to be a miracle cure. All I can say is the medical literature
00:25:30.000
is littered with tens of thousands of papers where when we actually study something thoroughly,
00:25:37.860
it turns out not to help end or causes harm. So when you hear about, for example, you're hearing
00:25:44.320
about hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin being a cure for this. Well, maybe they had some patients
00:25:52.260
that seem to do better when they got that combination. Now what we have to do is study
00:25:58.200
it in a clinical trial for exactly the reason you're mentioning. How do you be measured, thoughtful,
00:26:04.660
peer review, evidence-based so you know you're helping and not harming?
00:26:09.320
Yeah. I, I, uh, I listened to an interview earlier today with the, uh, uh, say it again
00:26:15.560
one more time for me. The hydro hydroxychloroquine. Okay. So the hydroxychloroquine call it, call
00:26:21.080
it Plaquenil. That's its trade name. Okay. That's easier for me. Um, yeah, uh, an actor that had
00:26:28.960
contracted COVID-19 has suggested that he feels better. And I thought to myself as listening,
00:26:33.500
well, it's probably been three or four days and it might just be that your body is doing what it
00:26:38.680
needs to be doing. Exactly. You've got it, man. Yeah. It's hard because we do want to be hopeful
00:26:44.500
and we do want to be optimistic. And I think that's actually a good way to look at it because
00:26:48.600
could you imagine the world, not just with this pandemic, just the world and everything that we
00:26:53.800
have to deal with in general, if we were always so pessimistic and thought the world was going to
00:26:58.040
end every single day of our lives, we wouldn't be able to function. Yeah. You know, and just to,
00:27:02.720
just to kind of play off what I understand order of man to be order of men, that's not what a man does.
00:27:09.300
Yeah. A man, a man realistically assesses the situation, delivers hope and then actions that
00:27:19.080
hope by, by how he performs, how he speaks and what he does and doesn't do in some cases.
00:27:27.320
Yeah. Well said. Well said. I really, I really liked that. Yeah. Well, on that note, do you think that,
00:27:33.460
uh, people generally, I mean, I guess we see both sides of the spectrum, but are people,
00:27:38.580
overreacting, you know, I've seen some videos where, and this was roughly a month ago that you
00:27:43.740
had done that I was looking at and how things can change in a period of four weeks. Oh yeah.
00:27:48.960
But do you think that generally we are responding to it responsibly? Are we underreacting? Are we
00:27:55.400
overreacting? Where do we sit on the spectrum? I think that we were slow to react given what we saw
00:28:03.940
happening in China and then started seeing happening in Italy. I think we had a mindset that that's over
00:28:12.720
there and it isn't going to happen here. That was wrong. The second thing is these things happen just
00:28:19.240
beyond human attention spans. We had SARS in 2002. We had vaccine candidates that never got past the
00:28:27.440
starting line. So we could have and should have had a vaccine. We should have been prepared. This is the
00:28:34.100
third novel coronavirus. There will be a fourth and a fifth. No doubt. So we've got, we've got no excuses
00:28:40.200
after this one. I think, I think those are big issues in, in how we think about that and how we
00:28:46.560
prepare and react for the future. Do you think that the public just loses interest and therefore these
00:28:53.260
things don't continue to get funded? Like how does this type of thing die out? It seems to me that we're
00:28:57.760
on a pretty, well, I was going to say predictable cycle. I don't think it's predictable, but we are
00:29:02.940
definitely on a cycle when it comes to these introductions. Yeah. Well, you know, in a sense, what I
00:29:08.500
would call it is irregularly predictable. We know they're going to happen. And in general, you have it
00:29:16.480
least one or two pandemics every century, as it turns out. So they will happen. Science is not a
00:29:23.500
spigot that you can turn off and on. Scientists get absorbed in new things. If they don't have any
00:29:29.440
funding, they leave that field and do something else in science. So we have to, I think really as a
00:29:35.840
nation, but also as a globe, say, here's a fund where we're going to continue, even though it might
00:29:42.300
disappear. We know it's going to come back. Zika was a good example of that. There's no Zika funding
00:29:47.400
right now. We're going to see Zika again. The mosquitoes and the virus they carry didn't just
00:29:52.240
go away. Yeah. So we'll have that again. And getting back to your earlier question, are some
00:29:59.100
people panicking and others underreacting? Yes. In both cases, we have some people doing some really
00:30:06.500
dangerous things. You wouldn't believe, Ryan, the kind of things that people send me. Let's put
00:30:12.340
bleach in cotton plugs and put them in our nose. Okay, that'll destroy your nose or gargle with dilute
00:30:20.520
bleach or swallow it. Your esophagus will never be the same again. Or doing that to their pets in an
00:30:28.940
attempt to disinfect their pet. Well, that's wrong from the very beginning. There is no evidence that
00:30:35.500
we're giving our dogs or our cats these viruses, or they're giving them to us. Even though the CDC
00:30:41.660
has issued some very, very precautionary things about, well, maybe when you're really sick, you
00:30:47.680
know, don't let your dog lick your face and share food with your dog or anything. I mean, I think
00:30:52.980
that's generally just good practice anyways. That's right. I mean, I love my dog, but I don't trust her to
00:30:59.840
guard my hamburger. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then other people are under responding. And, you know,
00:31:06.700
I don't want to unfairly cast blame. But again, in some of the younger aged people who said, well,
00:31:13.260
I'm invincible. I mean, that's why we send our young people to war, right? To begin with, we don't we
00:31:19.000
don't send guys my age because we know what can happen. You know better. And, you know, they're in the
00:31:24.720
bars and the nightclubs and the restaurants and the sporting events and things like that. And I
00:31:29.380
understand that at one level, but they're taking risk and they're taking risk that's unnecessary.
00:31:34.820
There's a difference between a calculated risk and an unnecessary risk.
00:31:40.420
Yeah, that's a great point. I think you've got to weigh the pros and cons. And to me,
00:31:43.640
going out and partying with your friends doesn't seem to hold a lot of benefit for me. You know,
00:31:48.620
I'm speaking for me. It doesn't seem to have a lot of benefit over the potential risk that I'm
00:31:52.440
exposing not only myself, but my family with young kids here. And yeah, and especially because
00:31:58.720
nobody's saying, you know, life won't go back to what we call normal. We're saying suspend. That's
00:32:05.940
all it's short term. And you know, Ryan, one of the things I was reflecting on, when you look back
00:32:11.560
at all of human history prior to our current generation, now, I'm going to put the great heroes
00:32:18.520
that are in their eighties and nineties and we're in world war two, you know, to the side and
00:32:23.900
certainly our military who have faced dangers while the rest of America is shopping at the mall.
00:32:28.920
I've got, my father was a career Marine. My brother, a career Marine. My son is in the military
00:32:34.720
as a, as a pilot. I worked for DOD for 20 years. Um, I know, I know the calculated risks and sometimes
00:32:42.280
the unknown risks that they take. We don't have to take those risks. All we're doing is saying,
00:32:48.380
look, life's going to be a little different in every age prior to this. People faced famine,
00:32:53.920
pandemics, wars, world wars. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about
00:32:59.460
temporary suspension for maybe a matter of months and then back to normal.
00:33:06.400
Men, let me just hit the pause button on that, uh, on that conversation really quick. We're
00:33:11.560
going to shift gears and I'm going to talk to you about something else and something that I think
00:33:14.580
is very important, uh, in the wake of the Corona virus fallout. Um, it's likely that you've probably
00:33:19.540
been isolated to some degree. And if that's the case, and even if it's not, uh, it's crucial that
00:33:24.600
you develop and maintain, uh, relationships with other men who are motivated and ambitious,
00:33:30.740
just like you are. And that's where the iron council comes in. We've created over the past
00:33:35.600
four years now, uh, a network of over 500 men, all with their own unique perspectives and
00:33:41.300
objectives. And they're all willing and able to accomplish big things in their lives and then
00:33:45.000
help you do the same thing. Uh, and, and although all of the men have differing goals and ideas and
00:33:50.380
things they want to accomplish, we have banded together in a common goal to become the most
00:33:54.660
effective and capable men that we can be, which during these trying times is, is crucial.
00:34:00.020
Obviously, uh, we have a time and battle tested system for helping you accomplish big things on
00:34:05.980
the home and the personal and the business front. And all you have to do is tap into the framework
00:34:10.120
and this network that we have, and then do the work required that we outline and, and, uh, help you
00:34:15.960
with. So if you're interested in learning more than head to order a man.com slash iron council,
00:34:20.720
again, that's order a man.com slash iron council, continue to listen to this podcast, but immediately
00:34:25.740
when this podcast is over, go check it out, order a man.com slash iron council. But for now,
00:34:30.240
we'll get back to my conversation with Dr. Poland. Yeah. I think it's challenging for a lot of people
00:34:36.520
because they haven't experienced real hardship. You know, I've seen a lot of these, uh, we'll call
00:34:42.060
them social issues that, uh, tend to arise. And, and a lot of them to me seem like we're just making
00:34:46.820
things up to be worried about. Uh, but a lot of these types of issues have gone away because we
00:34:51.400
actually have something real to worry about now. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You know,
00:34:55.400
too many people just, just haven't been exposed to hardship. So when they can't get their favorite
00:35:02.220
mocha frappuccino, you know, it's the end of the world when in all reality, it's nothing,
00:35:07.160
it's insignificant, it's meaningless. I mean, you know, I, just to put a contrast on it,
00:35:13.200
it is unbelievable to me that we've got a generation that if they hear a viewpoint different
00:35:21.880
than theirs in college, they need safe spaces and micro trigger warnings. Okay. At that same age,
00:35:30.020
my dad got the bronze star for his first tour in Vietnam. My wife's father got yanked out of his
00:35:36.440
senior year in college and won the silver star for rushing a Nazi pillbox and saving a lot of lives.
00:35:42.760
This is a very different thing that's happening to us nowhere near that. And it's temporary. So let's,
00:35:50.580
let's get a grip, right? Right. Definitely. Well, and you know, let's talk about the other side too,
00:35:55.800
because in all fairness, you know, I fortunately, and it sounds like, well, you're on more of the
00:36:00.680
front lines than, than I am maybe in close, but for me, my life hasn't been all that impacted. You
00:36:05.580
know, I'm here with my family. I live at home or excuse me, I work at home. Obviously I live at home
00:36:09.920
as well. Yeah. Uh, I, I can do my work remotely like we're doing now, but you know, there's people out
00:36:15.700
there who don't have work and don't have incomes and they can't have their kids going to daycare.
00:36:22.520
So, you know, there are some real hardships. Uh, and I feel for a lot of these people because
00:36:28.020
either they didn't plan or they didn't have the means to plan ahead financially and have their
00:36:34.860
food storage and things like that in place prior to something like this happening. It's, uh, it's pretty
00:36:39.820
tragic for a lot of people. You're, you're, you're, you're very right. And you know, again,
00:36:43.620
I think a man shares out of his plenty with his neighbor. And I think a government, the reason for
00:36:50.600
a government, the only reason I can determine is for the government to do for the people what they
00:36:56.360
can no longer or can't do for themselves. And that's where we need to focus efforts.
00:37:03.280
Let's go back to the conversation about genetics, because you said you and your team are looking at
00:37:09.060
ways genetics affects the, uh, the efficiency of this virus or the inefficiency. Uh, is there things
00:37:16.560
that we can do on a personal level to not necessarily change the genetics, but change our biology,
00:37:23.620
change our physiology to help us combat the virus that we're dealing with right now?
00:37:29.500
Ryan, I got to say, I'm impressed with the amount of biology, you know,
00:37:33.420
I don't, I know, I know a few words to make it sound like I know something.
00:37:37.180
Well, you're, you're, you're impressing me. Um, you're exactly, you're exactly right. We're,
00:37:43.340
we're not changing genetics, but some of the things that our mothers and grandmothers taught us
00:37:48.240
actually turn out to be true. We can measure these in the human body. We can measure these in the test
00:37:53.920
tube. When you get a proper amount of sleep, when you eat right, and that's, that's another whole
00:37:59.780
topic about people eating right. When you're exercising and you're fit, you know, I'm, I'm looking at you
00:38:05.780
and you can see me. We're fit individuals. We have a responsibility to take care of our bodies.
00:38:12.100
How are you going to take care of your family if you can't take care of you? How are you going to,
00:38:17.200
uh, mentor the next generation if, if you don't do that? Those things actually work.
00:38:22.840
The people who do best are not smokers. They're not obese. They've taken care of their bodies.
00:38:30.240
Their cardiovascular and respiratory systems are fit. They're outside. There's no reason you can't
00:38:37.020
be outside. Nobody's saying that. You just keep social distancing in mind. You can still run. You
00:38:42.760
can still walk. You can still bike. In fact, it was kind of interesting. Um, right now I'm on a small
00:38:48.580
island off the coast of Florida and it was 10 30 at night. I just finished the last interview and I
00:38:54.540
decided, come on, we're going to go do a little PT here. So we go outside and I am amazed the normally
00:39:01.600
absolutely quiet, busy streets have kids six to 10 feet and other people, uh, 10 feet apart riding
00:39:10.140
their bikes at night. Good for them. Isn't that funny? You see more, it seems to me, you see more
00:39:18.100
in a way, social interaction, interaction with wildlife and nature during a quarantine than you
00:39:23.920
ever did. Yeah. We were close in proximity, but we weren't socializing. We're stuck on the subway
00:39:29.200
and we're, we're hoarded in these little planes. And it's like, there's no social dynamic of it
00:39:34.680
whatsoever. You know, my dynamic what's happening. It is my wife and I were at the grocery store two
00:39:41.300
nights ago. And normally, you know, maybe somebody would, you know, nod at you or something like
00:39:47.040
that, but usually not engage in conversation. What we found is we ended up spending longer in
00:39:52.160
there than we anticipated because everybody wanted to talk. Yes. You know, they maintain their
00:39:57.120
distance, which was fine, but, and, uh, you know, I'm a type eight extrovert. I want to talk too.
00:40:03.580
Yeah, it is. Uh, well, definitely being social. I think this is probably the hardest thing for a lot
00:40:08.360
of people is we're social creatures, right? We want to be, we want to be with other people. We want to
00:40:13.880
share stories. We want to experience lives of other people. It's, that's a challenging thing for a lot
00:40:19.860
of people. You know, you, you, you raise a good point with that because we talked about physical
00:40:24.220
health, but there's also mental health and if I can say spiritual health that are, that are important
00:40:30.640
dimensions of how we were created and how we're meant to live. So, you know, as men, if we're going
00:40:36.800
to lead our families, it's not just the physical, it's not just providing, you know, housing and,
00:40:42.440
and shelter and, and heat and food. It's, it's more than that. Those are the basics.
00:40:47.920
We've got to figure out winsome ways that are helpful and not harmful for our kids to still
00:40:54.240
have social interaction, even if it's using technology. I was talking to my daughter and
00:41:00.160
she was saying, you know what people are doing now? They're, they're going to Facebook hangouts
00:41:04.440
and they're watching movies together and texting each other and, you know, or playing remote
00:41:08.780
video games or something like that. They're things that can be done. Pay attention to the
00:41:14.160
effects of, you know, to some degree, social isolation and, and pick up on that, figure out
00:41:20.320
how you deal with that. The same with the spiritual, you know, if we're going to be in home quarantine
00:41:25.140
and we're going to be teleworking, this is not a time off. This, this is a time to, to, to pick
00:41:32.920
this up and with your permission, can I, can I read a verse? Absolutely. So this is a verse
00:41:38.160
that caught my eye last night. I try to read through the Bible every year. This is from
00:41:43.000
Joshua and it comes from the first chapter of Joshua verse nine. And, and I, and I, and
00:41:49.800
I'd like everybody to hear these words and I'm going to, I'm going to read them the way
00:41:53.440
I think they were said, have I not commanded you be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened
00:42:04.420
and do not be dismayed for the Lord, your God is with you wherever you go. And that's
00:42:10.860
a promise. That's a promise. I see all the way through the pages of, of scripture. And
00:42:15.900
I believe that promise. And I believe that God will keep that promise. And I think that
00:42:21.020
that's something that we're to teach our children and give them the same hope that
00:42:25.600
we carry. Yeah. I, I do appreciate you sharing that. I think that hope is very, very important.
00:42:33.060
I think it's very important to maintain a long-term, even eternal perspective on the things that
00:42:39.100
we're dealing with. Yeah. Uh, my, my background is, is financial planning and it's interesting
00:42:44.280
because I got into the financial planning field in 2008, 2009, about the worst time prior to
00:42:50.520
the last several months. Good, good call, Ryan. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and it was interesting because
00:42:57.400
I had people, you know, show me their, their portfolios and you'd see if you look at it in
00:43:02.620
a 30 day or a 60 day period. And even now people are looking at it and thinking, you know, the world's
00:43:07.080
going to end and everything's going to fall apart and look at this. Just pan back, just pan back a
00:43:12.440
little bit, pan back a year, five years, 10 years. And you won't even see, you won't even recognize
00:43:18.140
that if you can maintain some level of faith and hope and optimism and also doing the work
00:43:25.340
that you should be doing to protect yourself and your loved ones and your community and everything
00:43:29.540
else that we do as men. Yeah, absolutely. I think I heard it expressed this way and it resonated with
00:43:36.180
me. Um, so many people put their hope in wealth or their big house or their fancy car, you know,
00:43:43.740
their bank account, whatever it would be. And here comes the smallest thing known, a virus and it is
00:43:51.840
shaking the globe. So what's your hope really going to be in? Yeah, that's, that's a good point. I mean,
00:43:58.640
these are microscopic, right? And, uh, it's 0.1 micron in size. Yeah. Pretty amazing. So how did you pick
00:44:08.740
this field of work? I mean, you could have gone a lot of different directions. What drew you to this?
00:44:13.960
My, uh, my son, Matthew is a professional soccer player and coach in, uh, in Europe. And he said a
00:44:20.500
friend of his Facebooked him and said, when your dad's on the news, it's never good news. Yes. Yes.
00:44:27.760
Yeah. People probably don't like to talk with you. I usually don't tell them what I, yeah, I usually
00:44:35.600
don't tell people what I do because they don't want to shake my hand. Yeah. But you know, I, I went
00:44:41.160
into medicine and this isn't, this is an interesting story. And I think it relates to one of the things
00:44:47.880
I think will happen as a result of this pandemic in young people's lives is they'll be stimulated to
00:44:54.060
go in science. So when I was four years old, I got my finger caught in a door and my sister cut my
00:45:00.920
finger off. And my mom tells me that I didn't cry. I was fascinated by what I saw. I went to the
00:45:09.920
hospital, four year old kid. We'd normally anesthetize a kid like that because they wouldn't,
00:45:14.320
they'd be screaming. They wouldn't hold still. They didn't have to do that with me. And the,
00:45:18.720
the doctor, a young Navy Lieutenant, my father was, uh, was in the Marine Corps and stationed in
00:45:24.120
Canoei Bay and in Hawaii. He said, he said he was amazed that this kid just wanted to ask questions.
00:45:31.720
So I, I B, I became a doctor as a result of that. And then when I was in my training,
00:45:37.780
I began to notice how many people were getting admitted to the hospital because of complications
00:45:43.640
of flu. And then I saw an older man who had slipped on the porch. This was in Minneapolis,
00:45:49.060
skinned his elbow and very near died of tetanus. And I began to realize just the toll that we accept
00:45:57.420
from infectious diseases. And I thought, this is my war. This is the one I felt called to this,
00:46:03.880
um, as, as well as spiritually. I'm also a student right now in seminary.
00:46:10.180
Yeah. And, uh, I thought this is, this is the direction that I'm going to go. And I've not wavered
00:46:16.180
from it. You're fortunate to be able to find that at such a, uh, such a young age. That's
00:46:21.680
yeah. And then to listen to it, because I imagine there's been all sorts of roadblocks and hurdles
00:46:26.540
and obstacles that would otherwise keep you from pursuing this path. I mean, I had no direction
00:46:33.000
on how to get into college, how to get into medical school. I had no money. Um, I just figured
00:46:38.640
it out as I went and, uh, I recognize now that that was a gift from God. That wasn't of my doing.
00:46:46.200
You used an interesting term. You said that we've just accepted the, and I can't remember
00:46:50.860
exactly what you said, but accepted the fallout of certain people dying, right? A certain percentage.
00:46:54.720
It is interesting because when we talk about the death rate, for example, of this, of this virus,
00:46:59.800
we talk about the flu being 0.1 or 0.2, whatever it is. And we talk about this being anywhere from
00:47:04.920
one to 5%. Well, those numbers aren't just numbers. Those are dads and wives and brothers
00:47:12.980
and grandfathers and business owners and leaders in the community. And so I think the fact that you're,
00:47:19.360
you're seeing any fatality as not acceptable is a, is a good indicator that that's a path that you
00:47:27.420
pursued wisely. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, on the one hand, we were all born with an expiration date.
00:47:33.720
We just don't know what it is. And on the other hand, you don't want to see any brother or sister
00:47:40.740
or child or parent or grandparent or neighbor fall from something we know how to prevent.
00:47:48.660
And that, that's what it is for me. What really gets me is what I kind of call the needless death,
00:47:55.240
something where we could have intervened and where we're now saying we could have, we should have.
00:48:00.500
What, uh, as we think about how to deal with this from a cultural and a societal level to medicine
00:48:08.700
and how we deal with these threats in the future, what is it that we're going to need to be aware of?
00:48:14.020
I mean, if we're at some point we will, I have full faith that we will neutralize this threat.
00:48:21.600
That's not to say that we won't experience something that's far worse than we're dealing
00:48:26.680
with right now. So what do we need to be on the lookout for, uh, moving forward?
00:48:31.240
So one of the things we really need globally is we have to fund public health, which has really been
00:48:38.100
kind of shaved back in many countries over the last decades. And the reason for that is surveillance.
00:48:44.460
So what's coming, we need to know what's happening in the remotest part of the world, because nowadays,
00:48:52.140
as you pointed out at the top of the hour, nowadays, anything like that is 12 to 36 hours away from us.
00:49:00.020
So we are much more connected. 1.5 billion people travel internationally every year. And we need,
00:49:07.860
we need to realize that that means that there are advantages, but also risks to that. We need to have
00:49:13.700
global funds where we have the, the monetary resources to attack these things, not just the rich nations,
00:49:20.420
but everybody needs to participate in this. We need countries to take responsibility. China must regulate
00:49:29.440
these wet markets. They are, I've been over there. I've gone into those markets myself, taken pictures
00:49:35.960
and looked at them. They are dangerous. I never saw any refrigeration, any ice, any hand washing.
00:49:42.460
The animals are slaughtered right there on the table or on the, on the ground, and they will sit
00:49:48.340
there until somebody buys them. And you've got animals of every species you can imagine from
00:49:54.860
around the world, not just in China, species that would normally never interact, jammed in next to
00:50:01.020
each other, trading all of their viruses, all of their bacteria. With avian influenza, I went over there,
00:50:08.760
you see chickens jammed in cages elevated about five feet high. The reason they poop, which is a rich
00:50:16.440
source of nitrogen. The pigs eat that, the pigs poop, and it runs into the aqua farms so that the fish have
00:50:23.660
that nitrogen. Just, it's a Petri dish for how these kinds of things happen. And then I think we're just
00:50:30.380
going to have to take seriously that there are risks and that we need to be prepared and we need to be
00:50:36.660
prepared in big ways. You know, almost every business I know, and, and, and you would understand this
00:50:42.520
better than me, Ryan, that they are, they have to, to, to shave expenses. Everything is just in time
00:50:49.180
inventory. And we have, in my opinion, made the mistake of farming out way too much to China and to other
00:50:58.140
countries because we think it's cheaper. Well, all of those gains we had because we thought it was cheaper
00:51:05.020
over the last 30, 20 years are erased with something like this. So we need to have a stable inventory.
00:51:14.960
We need to have probably through our government storehouses of the equipment that we're going to
00:51:20.540
need. If you're going to collect taxes from every American, then you have to be able to provide in
00:51:26.040
that time of need for every American. Yeah. That seems like a reasonable request.
00:51:32.040
Yeah. To you, you know, it's easy to spend other people's money ineffectively, but if you are going
00:51:37.480
to use those dollars, then you ought to leverage them to their maximum potential. Yeah. If you're
00:51:42.140
going to do that. Provide masks and gowns and gloves for our frontline healthcare workers. I have no
00:51:48.380
problem paying my taxes for something like that. I have problems paying taxes and finding out that it's
00:51:55.100
been squandered or that people in the government have access to information I don't and act on that to
00:52:01.040
enrich themselves. Yes. Yes. I'm glad that you brought that up. Not, not somewhere I had planned
00:52:06.660
on going, but it is disheartening to say the least. I have a few other choice words for this,
00:52:12.980
for this situation. But when you enter, you know, you engage in insider trading based on information
00:52:17.640
that isn't privy to anybody else. And you're supposed to be the ones protecting the public,
00:52:23.160
serving the public. Yeah. There's a huge, huge moral issue with that.
00:52:26.640
You know, what we need is a wall of shame. Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm just worried a lot
00:52:32.400
of these people don't have any shame, so it wouldn't do, it wouldn't do any good.
00:52:36.040
You're probably right. I also think there's a level of arrogance and, and not just in our
00:52:41.240
politicians, like we're alluding to now, but even just, just us and the way that we consume
00:52:46.140
and the way that we believe that, uh, nothing could ever happen to us. And that arrogance is
00:52:52.520
coming to, to bite us in the butt right now. Absolutely true. Um, one of the things I I'd
00:52:57.680
like to do, if you, if you like to go this direction is, is sort of talk to what can people
00:53:02.920
do in their families to protect themselves? That'd be great. Would that be okay? Yeah. So,
00:53:08.080
so the way I think about this is the same way you would think about, uh, any war, any endeavor
00:53:14.260
you're going to embark on. You think about the context and what are contextually appropriate
00:53:20.700
layers of protection. Okay. So where I live, when nighttime comes, I lock my front door and
00:53:28.340
back door, two layers of protection. I close my first floor windows, second layer of protection.
00:53:34.200
I flip an outside light on three layers of protection. That's all I need. You live in other
00:53:39.040
areas of the country. You might have an alarm system, four levels. Now you might have window
00:53:45.340
bars, five, a panic button, six layers of protection. So what is that for you based on
00:53:51.400
where you live and your family's context? You have an older parent living with you, a child
00:53:57.260
that has a medical problem and you do two things. First of all, and these are simple, but they
00:54:03.720
are profound in terms of actionable items. You cannot get infected with this virus. It is impossible
00:54:12.380
to get infected with this virus. If you don't breathe it in or introduce it into your body by
00:54:19.740
contaminated hands. So think of what that means. Um, when you're going to go out in public, social
00:54:26.440
distancing, if need be, you can make your own cloth mask. Does it work? It helps because you won't
00:54:33.340
breathe in. Yeah. Well, you won't breathe in those large respiratory droplets and it's more than
00:54:39.460
anything. It's a memory aid to not put your fingers on your face. Second thing is hand washing. If you go
00:54:45.840
to YouTube and you look up Dr. Poland and Jimmy Kimmel, we do a skit on there that shows people how
00:54:53.700
to wash their hands. We put a substance on their hands that's invisible, but it glows under a black
00:54:59.220
light and they're shocked at how poorly they wash their hands and what you actually have to do. And
00:55:05.680
hand washing is the best. Second best is hand sanitizer. Now here's the problem with hand washing. I have
00:55:14.100
never, ever, and just to be clear, ever seen a lay person wash their hands properly, but they all think
00:55:23.040
they do. So that's a problem. The same thing applies to hand sanitizer. They think they know
00:55:29.220
how to use hand sanitizer. The ones that work are the ones that are 60 to 70% or more alcohol.
00:55:36.940
And you have to, when you think about it, the riskiest thing in terms of, uh, touching a
00:55:42.200
contaminated surface and then infecting yourself are your fingers. Nobody washes the fingertips or uses
00:55:49.420
hand sanitizer very well on their finger. Yeah. They, they do something like this rather than,
00:55:54.800
than this, and then rubbing into each individual finger and even using enough of it. You need a
00:56:01.200
quarter to half dollar size of it to really coat your hands and let it air dry. Don't wipe it off
00:56:07.860
on a towel. You wipe your hands on a contaminated towel after you get done with it. You just defeated
00:56:11.820
the purpose of using that sanitizer. Right. So, you know, those are the two immediate layers,
00:56:17.220
social distancing, a third that we do to protect ourselves. Then in your unique circumstances,
00:56:23.400
you decide what to do in my home. You don't enter my home until you've sanitized your hands.
00:56:30.040
Okay. We don't leave a store without sanitizing our hands. Nobody comes into my home that's sick
00:56:37.460
or coughing or has a fever, unless it's my family member. And then I will take care of that.
00:56:42.200
Sure. And, and we do the reasonable things that scientists tell us are reasonable to do and they
00:56:48.560
work. They're really effective. I think a lot of people overlook this because of the simplicity of
00:56:55.120
it. Yeah. We have a tendency of doing that. If it's not, if it's not complex and complicated and
00:57:00.320
sophisticated, then it, it surely it doesn't work. Yeah. It's not high tech. Yeah. Right. Now that's
00:57:06.560
good feedback and something that I think is very important. I've got a friend here, uh, in Maine,
00:57:11.300
they're at, they're a, uh, uh, an apparel and a lifestyle company, all manufactured in the USA.
00:57:16.780
They make geese and rash guards, pants, boots, they make a lot of different stuff, but they've
00:57:21.460
shut down most of their operation and those things. And they've started making these, um,
00:57:26.200
masks, fabric masks that go around and, um, create a sleeve that you can actually put a, uh,
00:57:32.040
some sort of a mask, like either an N N 95 or some other, other type of mask.
00:57:37.340
Yeah. That's great. Good for them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that's another good thing is we see,
00:57:43.180
you know, in times of hardship, we see people's true colors and we see how much good is actually
00:57:48.060
in the world and how many people are willing to step up and exactly, you know, it's a, it's a war
00:57:53.340
effort. We're in this together. And I actually, you, you, you put your finger on something that I'd been
00:57:57.880
saying where with this generation, our generation, we have to move from me to we, and that's how we'll
00:58:08.180
do best. That's how we always do best. That's why we're built for community. Well said. Well said.
00:58:14.980
Well, Dr. Poland, I want to be respectful of your time. I know you're going for a run here in the next
00:58:19.640
several minutes, and I want to let you, uh, get, get onto your night and do that. Uh, do you want to
00:58:24.620
ask you a couple of questions? We touched on one a little bit earlier, but what does it mean to be a
00:58:28.840
man? You know, my first response to that is that's probably, in fact, I'm going to do this.
00:58:36.880
I am going to write that on a three by five card and tape that on my bathroom window. Cause I think
00:58:42.160
that's a question I need to ask myself every day. I think that that's a profound, though, a simple,
00:58:48.640
a profound question for me, a man, first of all, analyzes himself, knows himself. What are my
00:58:58.000
strengths and what are my weaknesses? And then I work to correct my weaknesses. And I have many of
00:59:04.260
them. I'm a human being and I falter. I got to recognize those, be able to accept the consequences
00:59:11.560
of those and do better next time. And I think by being a man like that, you can then lead your
00:59:18.880
family. And again, I think that is in the physical, the mental and the spiritual realm. And, uh, I,
00:59:26.540
I raised my children that way. They got to see firsthand. We didn't hide anything from them,
00:59:31.520
whether it's finances, whether it's what I do at work, what's happening in the military, um, you know,
00:59:38.300
not scaring them inappropriately, uh, if they were young kids, but I wanted them to be realistic.
00:59:44.280
And I wanted them to see dad's working hard and dad's not going to be home right now for this
00:59:50.220
reason. And they grow up to be responsible adults. So, so I think that that self-knowledge,
00:59:57.100
that self-management, that mentoring is an important part of being a man. You start with you,
01:00:02.820
you, you, you move to your family, to your God, and then to your neighbor and your community.
01:00:08.800
And that's not always easy. I recognize that I'm not trying to be Pollyannish, but you know,
01:00:14.600
a man shares out of his plenty, a man helps those who can't help themselves. And a man recognizes
01:00:22.620
that that's a duty, not something I'm doing to, to get glory or pat myself on the back.
01:00:29.800
That's a duty of a man. That's really powerful. I really appreciate that perspective. Thank you
01:00:35.820
very much. Thank you. Well, what is the best way to connect with you to stay in touch? I know you're
01:00:40.800
putting out some, some video content. It sounds like on Instagram with the help of your son.
01:00:45.140
Obviously I've seen a little bit on YouTube. Where do we go to follow?
01:00:48.880
Yeah. I think if you go to Instagram, Dr. Greg Poland, also a YouTube channel, Dr. Greg Poland,
01:00:55.220
we'll probably try to do another Instagram live Q and a, uh, Ryan would, uh, I've really enjoyed this
01:01:02.540
with you. It's the first time I've gotten to meet you instead of just watching. Um, so I, I'd love to
01:01:08.480
do another show with you because things are changing. And if we can get that information to listeners,
01:01:13.880
then they can action that information. So, and then another, another time, yeah. Okay. And then
01:01:20.680
another time we can come back and talk from the perspective of a physician of how do you take care
01:01:26.600
of yourself and your family? What does that actually look like? Definitely. Yeah. I'd be
01:01:31.220
honored to be able to do that. Well, as, as we wind down, I want to thank you for your time,
01:01:36.600
your expertise, obviously your willingness and sacrifice to be on the front lines of this. I know
01:01:40.920
this is a very, uh, it's an interesting situation to put it mildly. And I'm glad to know there's people
01:01:47.140
like you on the front lines willing to engage and do something about it. Well, thank you. And thanks
01:01:51.720
for helping to get knowledge out. That's really our best weapon is knowledge. Definitely. And I'm
01:01:57.540
going to make sure to send Matt an email and thank him for the, uh, the introduction. And if you'd pass
01:02:02.000
that along as well, I'd appreciate it. Sure. Sure. All right. Thanks, Dr. Poland. All righty. Blessings.
01:02:06.740
Stay safe. All right, gents. There you go. My conversation with Dr. Gregory Poland. I hope you enjoyed
01:02:13.780
that episode and I hope you found it useful. There was some new information that I had heard
01:02:17.520
in there. And, uh, quite honestly, this was one of my favorite podcasts. It was one of my favorite
01:02:22.340
discussions over the past five years, because we talked about something that obviously is very
01:02:26.820
relevant and current and needs to be addressed now. But then we went in some different directions too,
01:02:30.920
that I thought was very insightful and, uh, also valuable to talk about. So, uh, if you would make
01:02:36.160
sure you follow me and Dr. Poland on Instagram, he gave you his Instagram handle and where you can
01:02:41.240
connect with him. Uh, he's actually going to come on and do an Instagram live with me in, in the coming
01:02:46.640
weeks. So make sure you subscribed or following both of us over there. So you can be notified when
01:02:52.100
that's the case. And we'll do an ask me anything style, uh, conversation on Instagram. Uh, and then
01:02:57.520
just make sure you're, you're incorporating the ideas and thoughts and strategies that he had suggested,
01:03:01.900
because this is how we lead in times of crisis. And this certainly won't be the only crisis that, uh,
01:03:07.220
many of us will face, but it's the most pressing. It's obviously the most current, uh, and we have
01:03:11.960
an opportunity. And I do look at these uncertain and frankly, in some ways, scary times as an
01:03:17.980
opportunity to step up, to lead, to serve, to protect, to provide, to preside, to do all the
01:03:23.420
things that we've been talking about, uh, over the past five years. So, uh, know that I'm inspired by
01:03:28.120
you, uh, that I look to you for guidance and inspiration and direction. And I learned just as much
01:03:32.980
from you as I hope that you learn from me and our guests. So that's it guys. Uh, we'll be back
01:03:38.240
tomorrow for our Friday field notes. And then of course, next week for another interview and ask me
01:03:43.280
anything and all the information that we're putting out there, just make sure you follow us on the,
01:03:47.060
on the socials, specifically Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, all at Ryan Mickler. And we'll stay
01:03:52.960
connected over there. Also check out the iron council. If you are feeling disconnected, this might be a
01:03:59.000
great way to, uh, connect with other motivated, ambitious, inspirational, aspirational men. Orderofman.com
01:04:07.140
slash iron council. All right, guys, get to it. We'll be back tomorrow. Until then take action, become a man
01:04:12.540
you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of
01:04:17.960
your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.