Order of Man - Working with a Stubborn Child, Raising Daughters, and Creating Rites of Passage

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.360 you can call yourself a man. Have you read The Rational Mail?

00:00:28.420 I have read it by Rolo Tomasi. We should chat sometime. Some of these guys, he's got some

00:00:39.940 stuff that's rooted in what I would say is accurate, but then it's just taken to an unhealthy

00:00:46.360 level. I'm trying to balance the natural tendencies of man and understand them. Do you get what

00:00:58.360 I'm saying? I'm trying not to throw that out. I understand what he's saying, but in the same

00:01:02.040 breath, in what area in our lives do we say, well, that's just the natural man, so that's

00:01:10.180 the way it is and thus it's good, right? It's like, well, that's rooted in the whole zero F's

00:01:14.260 mentality that we talk about. Yeah. And that's not, that's not conduct of a man. Yeah. Like a man

00:01:20.600 by definition does not have the zero F's mentality. Yeah. He is, he is assertive. He is deeply engaged

00:01:28.140 and committed in the things that are important to him. And he isn't dismissive of credible advice,

00:01:34.080 information, resources that may actually serve him. And I see this whole MGTOW movement. Look,

00:01:41.640 again, a lot of it I think is actually rooted in some accuracy about the way men are portrayed in

00:01:47.460 society, the way we're viewed. Totally. But then if you take it to an unhealthy level and it causes

00:01:54.640 you to do things that are not in your best interest or the best interest of the people you're serving,

00:01:59.960 then that's not, it's not manly conduct. It's the antithesis of it.

00:02:06.580 Well, and it almost starts having, and it's kind of maybe sounds counterintuitive, but it has a little

00:02:12.360 bit of victimhood to it, right? Like I made that post the other day about fatherhood and immediate

00:02:17.100 was like, oh, but the court systems and, and women and you're like, well, hold on. Like it doesn't take

00:02:22.460 away from the fact that you should be doing your job, right? Or we do our best.

00:02:25.740 Because all of that stuff could be true. There is, I believe, for example, the court system.

00:02:29.800 I do believe it is stacked against men. And also I think men should step up to the plate and be

00:02:38.320 personally accountable and responsible for their decisions and actions. Yeah. Both can exist. Yeah.

00:02:43.720 Right. We, we fall into this false dichotomy in society where it's like either, or it's like, no,

00:02:48.080 no, no, no. Same thing with black lives matter. Like you either support black lives matter or you

00:02:52.900 support the police. It's like, I actually fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. Like I support

00:02:58.320 the fact that, that black lives actually matter. That's different than the movement black lives

00:03:03.740 matter, by the way. Yeah. And I believe that we should support our first line of defense, which in

00:03:10.100 many cases is our police departments. Yeah. Both can exist. How much of that do you think is tied to

00:03:17.960 the natural tendency for us to tribalize? That's exactly, it's the right word. It's tribalism.

00:03:23.700 It's like my way or the highway and my group versus them. Exactly. I'll give you an example. So

00:03:31.780 in high school, you guys weren't as big a rival as, as we were with, with Beaver. Cause you guys were

00:03:38.320 way easy to beat. So it wasn't a big rival, but we had this huge rivalry. Like the school right next

00:03:46.620 to you usually, right? Like ours was Ridgefield or North. So we had this huge rivalry with Beaver

00:03:52.640 high school and they were dicks and they were assholes and we hated all of those guys. And then

00:03:59.680 I hung out with a couple of them right after high school. And I was like, Oh, these guys are like me.

00:04:04.860 Like they're actually pretty cool. I like them. We get along. We joke, we have some fun together

00:04:09.620 and we chase girls around and we had a good time in college. Right. Yeah. But that's the problem

00:04:15.360 with tribalism is because they were, they lived 30 miles away. We thought they were dicks and assholes

00:04:21.240 and they were the enemy when in all reality they weren't. And you know, it actually served its purpose

00:04:26.880 because in a high school rivalry, the point is to be contentious and to beat each other and to beat up

00:04:31.660 on each other. And so it served its purpose. But then we mature out of that and realize that,

00:04:37.420 Oh, we aren't enemies. We aren't combatants. There's nothing that you believe that is at odds

00:04:43.040 with what I believe or threatening to me in any way. But this is, this requires a level of mature

00:04:47.820 thinking. And I don't believe that people are getting exposure to that mature way of viewing the

00:04:58.000 world and mature way of handling themselves. In fact, most people are just like hunched over

00:05:02.180 their cell phone and trying to get back at each other. Clap back is the term, right? Clap back at

00:05:06.500 each other and clap back. That's what I've heard. I don't know if I'm using in the right context

00:05:10.640 because I'm not woke, but, but that's what they're doing is like, if I can get you, you know,

00:05:15.800 if I can, it's like, this is stupid. This is the way my, my teenager would, would act not like a

00:05:22.520 mature man or a mature woman. It's absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. And you know, I made that

00:05:27.320 response on fate on Instagram. I told you about earlier, I think before we hit record and somebody

00:05:31.980 said, you know, Oh, that's a really, you know, mature response. And I'm like, but the problem is

00:05:37.760 it like, it shouldn't be note notable. Like I was just trying to be respect. I didn't agree with the

00:05:42.660 response should be mature. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, it shouldn't be notable that I

00:05:47.820 responded halfway decent to this woman who disagreed with something that I said, but that,

00:05:53.880 that is, that's a rarity because we're so worried about like getting them and, and burning them.

00:05:59.420 You know, it's like, it's just, it's absolutely ridiculous. So, and back to the, the tribalization

00:06:04.900 is like, that's why, you know, you said it yourself, it's effective. It has its effectiveness.

00:06:09.560 You know, we, the order of man, the iron councils, a form of, we're a tribe to some extent, right?

00:06:16.100 But we need to be educated about what that tribe does and what that tribe supports. And some people

00:06:22.980 jump on the bandwagon of tribe. And we talked about this a couple of weeks ago based upon a

00:06:28.020 narrative. Right. And, and if we use black lives matter as an example, it's like, that's a statement.

00:06:33.600 Do I agree with that? Sure. I'm part of that tribe. You're like, well, are you, what else does that

00:06:38.340 tribe do? What else does that tribe promote? Do you agree with that? Do you not agree with that? Like

00:06:42.920 we need to be a little bit slower to jump on board with groups and, or quote unquote,

00:06:49.460 tribes without understanding the full context of what they support and what their motives are as

00:06:55.080 an organization. And I'm not saying that's good or bad. I'm just saying we should do that period.

00:06:59.740 Guys should do that when we talk about, when they join us in the IC. Yeah. You should have done the IC

00:07:04.080 just cause some generic understanding, like, look, look us up, listen to the podcast, make sure that

00:07:10.880 these are things that you're aligned with. So, well, so there's two things that I think are an

00:07:16.160 issue when it comes to this idea of tribalism. When we, when we aren't willing, like you just said,

00:07:22.120 when we aren't willing to research what's actually happening, you know, like I could slap a sticker

00:07:27.140 on it, but just because I slap a sticker on it doesn't mean that it actually is that thing.

00:07:31.180 You know, I think of, um, like on, you remember the movie, Tommy boy, he's like, I could slap a

00:07:36.500 guaranteed sticker on a box of shit, but it'd still be a box of shit, a guaranteed box of shit

00:07:40.660 or whatever he says. Right. Like that's basically what it is. So if I slap the order of man decal,

00:07:46.340 or you slap the submit sticker on there on your hat, like, does that actually, what does that

00:07:50.380 actually mean? Like we have to go deeper and take some responsibility for figuring out, okay,

00:07:55.840 what does your hat actually mean? Does that mean like, is that a racist hat? Like submit to white

00:08:01.280 people or is that a jujitsu hat? You know what I'm saying? Like, but people, but people want to

00:08:08.360 make their own random narratives out of it. So that's a problem. The other problem is that we

00:08:14.780 base our tribes on immutable characteristics, for example, black and white. And that's an issue

00:08:19.800 because I can't change whether I'm white. Another person can't change whether they're black. That's

00:08:24.200 just melatonin in your skin. Like it is what it is. And if we, I can't change that I was born in the

00:08:29.360 United States. You can't change that. Maybe you were born in Indonesia or China or Africa or whatever.

00:08:34.800 You can't change those things. And if we base it on things that you can't change, we're doing that

00:08:39.940 individual a disservice because we're not honoring them by saying, okay, well, yeah, you were born in,

00:08:46.540 in Indonesia, but you know, let me get to know you. You were born in China, but that doesn't make you a

00:08:51.700 communist, your actions and your behaviors do. So let me try to figure out what it is you're all about.

00:08:57.380 And then I can make my decision because if you're a communist, okay, well, yeah, I adamantly disagree

00:09:03.000 with that. And I think those are not immutable characteristics so that we can actually have

00:09:07.520 a discussion about that. But if I just look at you because your, your skin's a different color or

00:09:12.760 your eyes might be a different shape than mine, that's a stupid thing to be tribal over. It's,

00:09:18.020 it's, it's very immature at best. It's a, that's a very polite way to put it.

00:09:23.020 Yeah. Hmm. Should we start a podcast? Are we, I don't know. I mean, we already hit record,

00:09:29.300 so I guess we kind of already started by the way, represent with that be unreasonable. Sure.

00:09:34.200 Yeah. Yeah. It's way better on me than it looks on you though.

00:09:37.620 It does. Well, it's cause the, uh, more full beard. That's what it is. It's the beard and the,

00:09:44.640 and the black, white, uh, or, uh, red, white, and blue, uh, styled order, man. Yeah. I didn't

00:09:51.140 know you had that color variation. You didn't send you a hat, dude. Yeah. I got the, I got the,

00:09:57.420 I got the orange and the blue. Oh, the, uh, the scout hat. I'll get you one of these. I'll

00:10:03.300 shoot you one over this afternoon, uh, tomorrow when we do our orders. All right. You guys heard

00:10:06.900 him. Well, I didn't say it was free. I'm going to text me. You're like, uh, still waiting for

00:10:14.280 payment. Yeah. Hey man, I'll just send you an invoice. It's cool. You're good for it. Just build my

00:10:19.640 card. That's right. Yeah, that's true. I got your card on file, man. Yeah. You're like, Hey,

00:10:24.160 I'll sing. Hey, you want a bunch of these? I'll send you a bunch. Yeah. Could you imagine?

00:10:30.200 That'd be so awesome. What are you drinking there? Kip? You got some Red Bull. Yeah. I got a

00:10:35.200 origin discipline today. Believe it or not. That's a water bottle. It's water.

00:10:40.900 Oh, I love that joke. Do you tell that to Pete and Brian yet? No, I need to, I need to just

00:10:46.280 to just be like, just start canning water and somebody messaged. Hey, this just tastes like

00:10:50.800 water. Yeah. Discipline. Like drink some water. Uh, you don't need pre-workout. That's called,

00:10:58.940 that's called motivation. That's right. All right. All right. Let's get into it, man.

00:11:04.660 Yeah. So we're filling these questions today from our Facebook group to join us there. Go to

00:11:09.440 facebook.com slash group slash order of man. Our first question, Tony Ching as a single father

00:11:15.800 raising 14 and a 15 year old girls. And when they want a boyfriend, what's the best approach

00:11:22.940 that would be cool to know? Thank you. Cool to know. I don't know if that's cool, man. Um,

00:11:29.400 I was just talking with my daughter. She's six and I'm nervous. I'm really nervous. And I still got

00:11:37.880 a few years before I have to get into that. Look, I think, I think you just be realistic,

00:11:43.500 right? Like it's good that she's attracted to boys. It's good that she wants a boyfriend. You

00:11:48.800 know, as dads were like, Oh, this sucks. This is stupid. No, this is healthy. That's the,

00:11:53.980 that's the perspective we need to realize. This is a healthy thing. It's not unhealthy.

00:11:57.880 Don't make that she's interested. Yeah. It's good. It's a good thing. So I would say at the root level,

00:12:04.780 you know, make sure she's comparing him to you. And that's a good comparison, right? So when she

00:12:11.360 goes out with a boy, she's like, okay. And maybe she's doing this subconsciously, but she's still

00:12:15.620 doing it. She's, she's measuring them against you. And, and if he falls short of that, I think

00:12:21.620 it's less likely unless you're a, well, and then she would fall short. I'll just say it this way.

00:12:25.820 Or if, if, if he falls short of that, then that will not look favorably upon him. Right. That's

00:12:32.380 the point. Like I want to be the highest possible standard for my daughter and, and for my sons,

00:12:36.840 when they think about how they want to show up as husbands and fathers and everything else.

00:12:41.040 But for my daughter, I want to be an example. And I want to be the metric by which she judges her

00:12:45.640 future decisions off of, off of as well, including the boys, the young men and the men that she decides

00:12:51.880 to eventually to partner with. So set that bar extremely high and then teacher, you know,

00:13:01.200 teacher, teacher to take care of herself, teacher to be responsible teacher about, and I would say,

00:13:07.020 include your wife in this process, of course, but teacher about sex and unwanted pregnancy and

00:13:12.520 disease and the attachment that comes with premarital sex. Like that stuff sucks. But man, you want to talk

00:13:18.320 about that stuff. One thing you've talked about quite a bit is like, how do you defend yourself?

00:13:22.500 That's something that I've actually been very aware of, you know, my, my wife and, and it hasn't,

00:13:28.160 hasn't been exposed like to the deep end of, of like violent sexual activity, but like guys,

00:13:33.960 boys try to take advantage of her. You know, I don't think this is all, this is all that uncommon,

00:13:38.180 which is unfortunate. It's tragic. And that's part of what this, this mission of order of man is all

00:13:42.940 about to make sure that we're upstanding capable men with character. Um, but it's likely that at

00:13:49.740 some point, my daughter will, will be exposed to some unwanted advances. And so I, whatever side of

00:13:59.160 the spectrum that is. And so I need to make sure that she's capable mentally, physically of being

00:14:03.620 able to defend herself against those things. So, you know, there's so many variables and components

00:14:09.540 of, of this equation, but again, it's making yourself an example. Um, it's having the conversations

00:14:15.600 with your daughter, including your wife that need to be had. And then it's making herself capable of

00:14:19.900 standing up and defending herself in situations, uh, that she compromising situations that she may

00:14:25.700 find herself in. Yeah. And I think there's going to be uniqueness based upon the personality of your

00:14:31.420 daughter. You know, like I think of my oldest, my oldest daughter's a, she's very appeasing. And so

00:14:37.780 a conversation I'm going to have with her is like, Hey, just because a boy wants to kiss you,

00:14:43.100 you need to want to do that. Right. Like, yes. Cause I could totally see her being like, well, he,

00:14:48.760 he wanted to kiss me. So I kiss, you know what I mean? It's like, no, no, no, no, no. That's not

00:14:52.240 how it works. Like this is, you know, you need to be sure don't appease. You have a say in that.

00:14:57.680 Yeah. That you have a say in the matter. And I'm not going to have to worry about that with my other

00:15:01.140 daughter. Cause she'll just like, you know, punch the kid in the face or punch him. Yeah.

00:15:04.980 Right. Yeah. So there's going to be some adjustments for your, for based upon personality

00:15:10.040 types for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, I think having daughters is definitely harder

00:15:15.920 than having sons, you know, so I can appreciate your concern. I can definitely appreciate your

00:15:21.960 concern, but you know, you're at a good age to be able to teach them and to be able to make them

00:15:26.380 aware of what's going on. The other thing that I didn't mention here is this is something that I

00:15:32.200 think is often overlooked with fathers is that that boy, it might just be a fling. In fact,

00:15:36.900 it probably is at 14 and 15 years old. It's probably just a fling. Yeah. But your daughter

00:15:42.580 is going to start dating men, young men and men who could potentially become a lifelong partner,

00:15:47.540 which makes you their father. Yes. Father-in-law, but it also makes you their father. So if it were me,

00:15:55.100 and when I get to this situation, I plan on fathering that young man, even if it's a 14,

00:15:59.640 15, 16 year old fling, and she's got a little summer crush on some boy, like,

00:16:04.640 Hey, you, you, yeah, you can hang out with my daughter with us, you know, like, come on. And I'm

00:16:10.900 not going to, I'm not going to treat him like a jerk and I'm not going to make him feel stupid.

00:16:14.600 And I'm not going to embarrass him. Why would I do that? Like, I'm actually going to take him under

00:16:18.980 my wing and help him understand what it means to be a man. That boy could potentially be my son

00:16:26.920 at some point. And if not, he's going to be somebody's son. Like what an opportunity I have

00:16:32.560 to maybe provide him with some fathering that he may not have gotten already. Uh, but you know,

00:16:38.520 if, if my daughter is deciding to give her heart to him, like I might have some influence over this

00:16:44.360 young man. And that would be a pretty good thing for not only him, but also for my daughter,

00:16:47.500 which is my responsibility. So that is something a lot of guys overlook. Like I'm going to,

00:16:52.300 I'm going to grill him and I'm going to bring the guns. And look, I've been guilty of talking

00:16:55.220 about that kind of stuff too. I do it tongue in cheek, but ultimately like I I'm going to try to

00:17:00.000 step into some sort of fatherly role, even with a young man that potentially wants to date my

00:17:04.080 daughter, which is only going to increase the chances of him making better decisions with your

00:17:09.220 daughter. So, or running off if he's too intimidated by the fact that I have a good relationship with my

00:17:14.580 daughter and I have a vested interest in him, which isn't a bad thing either. Right. If he's willing

00:17:18.960 to run in that situation, good, by all means, let's scare it out of them or whatever, you know? So

00:17:23.380 Totally. All right. Tyler Gilson, as I prepare for my first child in the coming days, what are some

00:17:29.700 of the best ways to support my fiance and make life a little easier on her? What do you both do in

00:17:35.040 order to help your wives with your children when they were first born? Here's one thing I would

00:17:40.760 look, you're going to get a lot of advice, but one thing I would be careful of is saying the phrase,

00:17:44.240 what can I do to help? Yeah. Like, don't say that because here's why you're being lazy

00:17:50.860 and I'm guilty of this. Hey hon, what can I do to help? And we think we're being helpful,

00:17:56.280 but you're not. What you're trying to do is you're trying to put the responsibility back on her. So

00:18:01.980 she can like line you out and tell you what you need to do and lead you. You're a leader. You're a

00:18:06.440 man, right? And you want to be a patriarch of your family. So lead leaders recognize what needs to be

00:18:12.740 done and they figure out a way to make it happen. Maybe that's taking it upon themselves. Maybe it's a

00:18:17.820 level of delegation, but somehow they make that thing happen and leaders don't need to be told

00:18:22.740 what to do. Leaders look for problems. They look for opportunities. And then without permission,

00:18:28.260 they step into those things and create the solutions to the problems they see.

00:18:32.800 So with your wife, when you notice that she's having a difficult time mentally,

00:18:37.000 don't ask her what you can do. Just go do the damn dishes. Yeah. Right. Or if you have other kids in

00:18:43.420 my situation, if you have other kids, when my wife was pregnant with our second, third, and fourth,

00:18:48.280 like, I don't need to ask her what to do. I just need to get the first two out of her hair for

00:18:52.400 a few hours. And so it's very simply me coming to her and saying, Hey hon, you know, I know you're

00:18:58.240 stressed out a little bit right now, and maybe you're not feeling that great. So I just want to

00:19:02.160 give you a couple hours this afternoon. Me and the boys are going to go to the batting cages and we're

00:19:06.660 just going to take some batting practice for a couple hours. So, you know, read a book, work on your

00:19:11.060 garden, relax, watch a show, whatever, but we'll be back at five period. The end like you, if you,

00:19:16.860 if you want to lead, then lead. And a follower says, what can I do? A leader says, that's what

00:19:22.640 I need to do. And then goes and does it. Cool. Ryan, uh, Gustafson, Gustafson, my son will be

00:19:32.480 four in August within the last month or so. He is becoming extremely disrespectful, tries to hurt us

00:19:38.440 and will, won't go to bed without a fight. Most nights. Dang, man. That's cool. Like it's a, it's

00:19:46.780 just a different, my four-year-old is very much the same. If he gets mad, he literally says, do you

00:19:51.600 want me to cut you? I'm like, Whoa, dude, what is your problem? Or if he gets mad, he goes straight

00:20:00.800 to scratching. It isn't like scratch. Like he like grabs you and just like hard fish hooks. Yeah.

00:20:08.700 Yeah. I'm like, dude, what is your problem? Yeah. He did have some post questions, right? Did your

00:20:15.920 kids go through this phase? What did you do? And what are some ideas to get your son to listen,

00:20:19.740 uh, and, and, and do what he, what you ask of him? Sorry. So I found that making, so with a stubborn

00:20:26.900 child, one that's full of piss and vinegar, like my four-year-old isn't, it sounds like your four-year-old

00:20:31.680 is. That's actually a good thing by the way. Like, it's not bad. I think it's harder because he's not

00:20:39.180 subservient. Like my older, my old, you can look at him the right way. And he's like, I'm sorry.

00:20:44.780 My youngest is like, why are you looking at me like that? And then we'll walk up and punch

00:20:49.240 you, you know, because you're looking at him like that. Or foot stomp on you. Yeah. Foot

00:20:53.140 stomp. Yes. Foot stomp my toes, which he did. For those of you who don't know, my son, my

00:20:57.520 four-year-old came up to me the other day. He's like, Hey dad, guess what? And I looked

00:21:01.040 down at him. I'm like, what? And he just heel stomped the shit out of my toes. I had bare

00:21:05.500 feet and he just heel stomped. And then he just ran away and I was pissed, but also I thought

00:21:11.660 it was really funny at the same time. No, I know. I know what this is about. Kip, you've probably got

00:21:18.040 a child or children that fit this mold, right? And it's good because they're independent.

00:21:23.760 They're resilient. They're, they're strong willed and all of that stuff is good. So

00:21:28.540 understanding that and knowing that and appreciating that that's part of it.

00:21:33.300 Just appreciating that. Okay. Well, this kid is stubborn. What I try to do for as best I can for a

00:21:39.140 four-year-old is try to make the things that I want him to do his own idea. If I can make going

00:21:46.320 to bed, his own idea, if I can make cleaning up his own idea, or if I can make those types of things

00:21:52.320 fun, where he's like, I actually want to do this. Then I have more. I just have more opportunity.

00:21:59.720 It just works better when I do it that way. Disciplining is about finding what your children

00:22:06.240 don't like. And then, and then exposing them to that or taking away the things that they do like.

00:22:14.880 My four-year-old is very social. So in disciplining, look, I don't spank. Okay. But if I did, I bet I

00:22:22.280 could spank him till I was blue in the face. And he would just look at me and be like, is that all

00:22:27.020 you got? So with him, that's not what it's about because he's defiant by nature. Right? So he's like,

00:22:33.300 bring it on. Like, go ahead and spank me again. I don't spank, but if I did, that's, I think what

00:22:37.580 the situation would be. But if I, if I tell him to go sit on the stairs by himself, he's pissed.

00:22:44.500 He hates it. So that's his point, right? It's like, okay, he doesn't want to be isolated. He

00:22:48.940 doesn't want to be alone. He wants to be around him with other people. So I know what that is.

00:22:52.980 And I can discipline in that matter. And I can threaten that matter too. Hey, if you can't behave at

00:22:58.840 the dinner table and eat your food and contribute to the conversation, then you get to go sit on the

00:23:03.220 stairs by yourself and you're not going to participate in this. Toes the line. So you got

00:23:09.640 to find what he likes, what he's interested in. He or she, I don't know if they said a boy or girl,

00:23:15.440 but, and, and then find the things that son. Okay. And then strip that away. That's, that's the

00:23:22.200 consequence of that behavior. Give them an opportunity and a warning. Hey, look, if you don't do this,

00:23:25.780 here's the consequence. Okay. They did it consequence. And you start to mirror those

00:23:29.420 consequences and they learn pretty quickly when you find that pain point for them.

00:23:33.920 Yeah. I, the only things I would add is unemotional consequence I think is, is valuable,

00:23:38.080 but it's like, Hey, sorry, bud, but this is what our agreement was, but it's not an angry. Right.

00:23:44.260 And then the other thing to, to give some example to like putting them in charge, you know, we've done

00:23:49.800 this with my youngest daughter where it's like, uh, you're in charge today. Like we've given her a

00:23:56.460 day of when she's in charge and then we're like, okay, we need to do these things. So what do you

00:24:01.680 want to do? You know, or say, okay, today's your, your turn to be in charge of bedtime. So what,

00:24:08.460 you know, you have this window, what you want to do first, do you want to watch a movie? Do you want

00:24:12.780 to brush our teeth first and then watch a short show? Or do you want to read a book? Like,

00:24:16.240 and just get empower them. And they, I like that. She eats it up. Like she'll tell everybody all day

00:24:22.660 long. Right. See a stranger at the grocery store. I'm in charge today, you know? So yeah, I would

00:24:29.420 just let them, let them run with it and kind of suck it up a little bit and let them feel the,

00:24:35.180 the power of being in charge. Cause they think it's so special, you know, when, because what,

00:24:39.440 if you think about it and honing it, right. Yeah. And it's a power play a little bit. Like

00:24:43.260 a lot of, if you think about it, it's like that defiance is they don't want you to tell them

00:24:48.820 what to do. They want to be in charge. I mean, it's a little bit of a, like, I'm my own person.

00:24:54.440 So then let them give them the, like you said, give them the, uh, the framework is what we got

00:25:00.440 to do. And we got to be in bed maybe by this time, but until now and then you decide what that looks

00:25:05.840 like. Well, and you think about what your role, I love that idea, because if you think about what

00:25:10.440 your role, and we've talked about this at length, your role as a parent is to render yourself

00:25:13.900 obsolete. We've talked about that to put yourself out of work as a father. So does disciplining your

00:25:18.900 children and keeping them under your thumb do that? I don't think so. Unless you're explaining

00:25:24.360 lessons that go behind it. But if you give your child just a little bit of leash, right? Just a

00:25:29.320 little bit. You don't want to put them in situations where it's dangerous or destructive or has

00:25:33.660 consequences that they can't recover from, but just a little bit of leash to say, okay,

00:25:38.860 like, why wouldn't you look at that and think that's a good thing? Like my, my daughter and

00:25:42.660 my son is strong-willed and independent and they want to do things on their own. They want to make

00:25:45.820 their own decisions. I'm like, cool. That's going to make my job a whole lot easier. Cause I actually

00:25:50.080 want you at some point to start making your own decisions. And you have a child potentially who is

00:25:56.220 ready to do that sooner than your other children. That's going to be way easier in a lot of ways.

00:26:01.320 If you allow him or her to develop that, to hone that skill and that desire,

00:26:07.040 it doesn't make it easy necessarily. It just means, okay, well, just little one is already

00:26:13.720 moving in that direction. Great. Here's how we're going to foster that.

00:26:16.920 Yeah. And our natural tendency is to crush that spirit.

00:26:20.280 Right. Why would we do that?

00:26:22.280 Yeah, exactly. Because it's disrespectful. They're disrespecting. It has nothing to do with you.

00:26:27.560 It has nothing to do with you because they'll disrespect every stranger on the street,

00:26:32.740 just the same as they'll do you. So it's not personal. It's just their personality.

00:26:39.380 That's, um, that's, I think that's really powerful what you just said, because I think

00:26:43.460 that could even be applied to, to a teenager slashing out. Right. We have parents that's like,

00:26:50.220 oh, they're, they're being disrespectful. They don't love us. And they may even say things like,

00:26:54.680 we'd, I don't love you. Right. I hate you. Right. Yeah. I hate you. You're the worst ever,

00:26:58.960 but, uh, that's all still tied to the same exact concept. I mean, they're going to treat a stranger

00:27:03.340 on the street the same exact way. Yep. And we better say too, I don't think we said this. These

00:27:08.880 are follow-up questions from last week. Cause we did one dedicated specifically to fathers for

00:27:12.840 father's day. So this is a follow-up on those questions. That's why all of these questions are

00:27:16.540 pertaining to fatherhood. Yeah. A little bit of a theme going on. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Uh,

00:27:21.640 John O alphabet, uh, hi Kip and Ryan hugely enjoy your shows, uh, around fatherhood. I'm a new father.

00:27:28.820 And to be honest, although I love my wife and kid, I find that I have no time or energy for things that

00:27:34.540 used to make me, me such as football, working out and et cetera. How do you balance the fight for

00:27:41.740 self-care with the responsibilities of your kid and family without seemingly seeming neglectful

00:27:47.520 or selfish? Many things. Well, look, you're using the word fight and that's the problem

00:27:55.060 because there's contention between you and your wife or, or some level of perceived contention.

00:28:02.260 Maybe she, maybe she actually wants you to, and you just are perceiving it and you're just,

00:28:06.500 she doesn't want you to. Yeah, exactly. Which is likely and could very, very, very, uh,

00:28:12.820 really be like, be a possibility. Like, cause you feel guilty and you want to be around and

00:28:17.440 actually commend you for that. Like the fact that you want to be around, that you feel guilty for

00:28:20.740 taking care of yourself means that you want to do right. That's a good thing. You're just not

00:28:25.720 handling it correctly. So you need to actually talk with her first and make sure that your assumptions

00:28:32.720 are her reality. They may not be, you may be filling in all these little gaps about her philosophy

00:28:40.660 and her way of thinking that aren't actually what she's thinking. And you owe that to her. And frankly,

00:28:47.620 she owes it to you to have candid discussions about your role as a father and how you can continue to

00:28:54.900 take care of yourself. And if you continue to look at this as this contentious, bitter thing,

00:29:00.300 like me versus her, then of course you're going to create some animosity and there's going to be some,

00:29:05.460 some problems there. Instead of looking at like that, reframe it and think that if I go take care

00:29:11.600 of myself, I'm actually going to come back and I'm going to be a more engaged, more capable,

00:29:17.820 more grounded husband and father, because now you're giving yourself permission to go do that thing.

00:29:25.580 But second part of this, you actually have to come back and be a better father and be a better

00:29:29.760 husband. This goes back to the boundaries that we've been talking about for five years.

00:29:33.420 When you say you're going to be present for them and with them, you need to get off your phone.

00:29:38.180 You need to get off your, all your other distractions and you need to be present,

00:29:41.120 engaged for, and with them because you said you would. And when you become a man of your word on

00:29:45.800 that side of things, when you tell your wife, Hey hon, uh, do you mind if I go to jujitsu tonight?

00:29:54.280 She's actually going to want you to, because she's going to appreciate that when you come back,

00:29:59.160 you're more engaged, you're more connected, you're, you're happier, you're easy to be around.

00:30:03.780 You're more patient. A lot of things that happened for me when I go to jujitsu. And so

00:30:07.620 when I say, in fact, the other day I said, I don't want to go to jujitsu tonight. My wife's like,

00:30:12.120 no, you're going to jujitsu tonight. Like that's, that's the level you want to get to. She wants you

00:30:17.980 to go take care of yourself and then you go do it and you honor that commitment and, and things are

00:30:23.260 good. So, um, the other thing I would say is like, when I ask my wife, Hey hon, do you mind if I go

00:30:30.100 to jujitsu tonight? I'm actually not asking for permission. I'm just politely telling her that

00:30:36.240 that's what I'm going to do and trying to find out if there's any conflict with that. Because if there

00:30:40.840 is, if she said, Oh no, actually tonight I was planning on going with my girlfriends. We've had a

00:30:44.940 plan for three weeks or, um, you know, I'm really not feeling good tonight. Like I'm sick. And so could

00:30:49.760 you take care of the kids? Oh, I can honor that. I can respect that, but I'm not asking for

00:30:54.200 permission. I'm politely suggesting that this is what I'm going to go do. And we know that about

00:30:58.840 each other. And we honor that. And we honor those commitments outside of our commitments to each

00:31:02.800 other through years and years of practice and conversation. Uh, and, and when she says, Hey hon,

00:31:09.580 do you mind if I go, for example, the other night she came to me and she said, Hey, um, I'm thinking

00:31:14.740 about doing some master classes online. Are you familiar with these things? It's pretty cool.

00:31:19.760 Masterclass. Really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So she's like, Hey, on, on Wednesday night, I'm thinking

00:31:24.520 about just doing masterclass. So I know you go to jujitsu. I'll put the kids down while you're at

00:31:28.140 class. And then when you get home, I'll probably just already be in a masterclass. Is that okay?

00:31:32.420 I'm like, yeah, that's great. So now she does on Wednesday nights, like we're not like together

00:31:38.060 necessarily. She's in that room. I'm over here. I might play the guitar or do something that's

00:31:41.620 engaging for me. She's doing her masterclass, but we talk about it openly. And then when we're

00:31:46.180 done, we reconvene and life is good. All is good. So you didn't have those conversations.

00:31:50.820 You need to be open. You need to be respectful. You're not asking for permission, but you do need

00:31:55.060 to come back a more engaged husband and father than you potentially were before.

00:32:01.480 Did I lose you on internet?

00:32:02.680 Cool. All right. Uh, Dominic Bright, do you use your own planner or a planner at all on a daily

00:32:17.680 basis? Maybe I should have skipped this question. Sorry. I use this planner right here. It sits right

00:32:24.200 by me at all times. This is the battle planner. Come on, Dominic. You should have known this already.

00:32:29.200 Come on, man. Um, if you go to the store, they're on back order right now, but you can order them

00:32:34.020 store.orderaman.com. But this is the planner I use. And when you purchase the planner, there's a link in

00:32:40.320 there with an accompanying video that explains and walks through how to use it. The other thing I will

00:32:45.200 say that didn't last long. No, I have like 400 of them and they sold within like a few days, several

00:32:51.220 days. Uh, the other thing I'll make you guys aware of, this is very, very close. In fact, after Kip,

00:32:57.460 you and I get done recording this podcast, I have a conversation with a friend of mine,

00:33:02.020 George Bryan, who's helping me work through some of this stuff, but there is a course called 30 days

00:33:08.240 to battle ready, which is actually going to walk you through in depth and in detail, the plan that I

00:33:15.460 use, not necessarily the planner itself, but the philosophy behind the plan and how you can incorporate

00:33:21.900 in your own life using whatever tools you have at your disposal and, or the things that we have at

00:33:27.960 our disposal. So if you go to, uh, I don't even think I have a link yet, but if you go to, you can

00:33:34.600 go to our website and just sign up for emails. And then when it becomes available, you'll get,

00:33:39.880 you'll get the notice. Cool. All right. Greg, uh, Wanberg, can you give examples on different

00:33:47.460 components of rites of passage for our kids? I've got a few ideas, uh, that I'm working on

00:33:52.940 leadership, self-awareness, but you mentioned other facets a few weeks ago and I'd like to learn.

00:33:57.460 Cheers. Yeah. So one thing I do with my kids is we do a rite of passage, uh, when they turn eight

00:34:04.100 every two years. So that'll give them five opportunities by the time they're 18 and they're

00:34:08.960 out on their own and going to college or pursuing their careers. Um, in addition to everything we're

00:34:13.960 doing on a daily basis, but you know, I think it has fundamental level when you're talking about a

00:34:18.080 rite of passage for your child, it needs to have purpose. Like we're not just going on a camp out

00:34:23.320 to have fun. It's not what it's about. Yeah. The purpose of this is to go through some challenges,

00:34:29.660 some obstacles to have some discussions. And then you're going to come on the other side of this

00:34:33.920 thing, more prepared to be the man that you ultimately want to become. So there's, there's purpose.

00:34:40.100 There's a clearly defined message. That's important. I would also say, get them involved.

00:34:46.260 That's a critical component. If you're just doing everything, then they're just showing up.

00:34:50.340 You're really missing an opportunity to get them involved in the leadership process and the

00:34:54.460 organization of it. So that might be planning out what they want to do. A gentleman and a friend of

00:35:00.320 mine by the name of Jim Shields has a book called family board meeting. And I've extracted some of his

00:35:05.960 philosophies and points in letting your children dictate what that quote unquote board meeting

00:35:12.020 should be. It's a play on words for surfboard. Cause they're a surf family. So he calls it a

00:35:16.360 family board meeting. They go out and they serve or do whatever it is that their children don't want

00:35:20.840 to do. It's a really good book. And it's a quick read. It's called family board meeting by Jim Shields.

00:35:26.120 Um, there has to be an element of challenge. If it's not difficult or challenging or test them in some

00:35:32.880 way, then it's probably not a rite of passage. It's just a weekend vacation or getaway. And there's

00:35:38.460 nothing wrong with that, by the way, that's good. That's fine. But if you're looking at creating a

00:35:42.960 rite of passage, there has to be challenge. And you, it's up to you as their father to determine what

00:35:48.760 the line is, where they'll bend a little bit, but they'll push through versus breaking. Cause the

00:35:57.000 idea is you want them to pass the rite of passage. So you need to find the line of bending and being

00:36:01.680 strained and stressed, but still being able to complete the task at hand versus breaking faltering

00:36:07.980 and not completing what it is you want them to accomplish. And it gets progressively more difficult

00:36:13.480 as they get older, right? Uh, you've got to be just you and him can't have mom around, can't have

00:36:20.800 sisters around. It's specific to you and, and him or, or even her actually, but mom shouldn't be around.

00:36:30.000 I love mom to death, but mom will coddle mom will nurture and she'll baby because that's what she

00:36:37.260 does. Like you look at, when we talk about what it means to be a man, protect, provide, preside.

00:36:42.080 A lot of people say, well, what's the equivalent for a woman? It's to nurture. Uh, it's to support.

00:36:48.900 It's to foster. All of those things are wonderful in the right context. But when you're trying to push

00:36:55.420 your child further than they've gone before, nurturing, supporting that kind of stuff that

00:37:00.580 isn't necessary. In fact, it might be a hindrance to what it is you're trying to, to, to do. So you

00:37:05.460 have to get them away from mom so you can go do the thing. And then there has to be learning,

00:37:09.760 right? There's going to be some uncomfortable and awkward conversations with your children about

00:37:14.260 something, whether it's sex or, or pornography or drugs or politics or God, or whatever it is that

00:37:22.140 you feel like you want to discuss. There has to be some element of dynamic learning in there where

00:37:28.660 they understand, okay, like, yeah, this is new information I've never heard before in a way I

00:37:33.100 haven't heard it before. So I think if you look at challenges, you look at learning, you look at

00:37:37.860 separation from their mom, and then you look at getting them involved. I think you're going to have

00:37:42.500 and build a pretty cool rite of passage for your child. Cool. All right. Um, I lost my spot.

00:37:49.900 Geez. Skylar, uh, burn amateur, amateur, amateur. What improvements would you like to see on social

00:37:57.180 media platforms that would facilitate content creators like yourself, increased, uh, monetization?

00:38:06.620 Interesting question. I haven't. Yeah, it is an interesting question. I actually haven't given

00:38:10.620 it much thought because I think what's available now is actually pretty powerful. You know, I like we,

00:38:16.560 I know we like to gripe about Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and all these things suck.

00:38:20.560 And I wouldn't have a job if we're for social media. So, I mean, I think there's improvements

00:38:25.680 that can be made, but I'm actually pretty grateful that these platforms are available. Uh, I, I actually,

00:38:30.600 I don't, one thing I don't like is that they're selective and increasingly so in causes and things that

00:38:40.600 they believe they should be supportive about, like, I don't, I don't think that's social media's role

00:38:47.340 and responsibility. I think the role of a social media provider is to provide an open platform

00:38:52.980 that allows people to dictate how they use it and to find what's important. Like, I don't think,

00:38:59.220 I don't think Facebook should be making COVID-19 suggestions for me or Black Lives Matter

00:39:04.660 suggestions for me. I just think it should be, and look, I don't mind if it making recommendations

00:39:10.680 based on what I like and what I'm, but I don't think it should be selective in what it's choosing.

00:39:15.800 I don't, I also don't think it should be selective in, okay, we're going to sponsor this political ad,

00:39:20.120 but not that political ad. Like that's where it becomes a problem is when it's selective. And it's,

00:39:25.840 this is the whole problem. Look, this is actually the issue with what a lot of people are saying

00:39:31.100 right now is that, is that there isn't an equitable representation across the country,

00:39:38.800 whether it's your, your ethnicity, your color of your skin, there isn't an equitable distribution

00:39:44.560 of that. And, and yet we support Facebook and Twitter and Instagram with an inequitable distribution

00:39:53.460 based on like whatever the powers that be at Facebook decide is important. That, that to me,

00:39:59.480 isn't leveling the playing field, that's stacking the deck. And just because it happens to be stacked

00:40:04.960 in favor of a cause you like or dislike, like that shouldn't be the issue.

00:40:12.700 The issue should be at its fundamental level of stacking the deck. I have to be supportive,

00:40:17.680 for example, of causes I don't appreciate if I hope to, or have any desire of being in integrity

00:40:25.320 for them supporting causes I believe in. That's one of the hardest things. I think people have a

00:40:31.560 very difficult time overcoming. They'll support, they'll support a stance when it's alignment with

00:40:37.500 their own views, but they won't support it when it's in not an alignment with their views. And that

00:40:42.180 is a problem. That's a huge problem. That's not leveling the playing field. Again, that's stacking

00:40:47.160 the deck. And that's, isn't that like kind of what people are upset about right now is that there

00:40:53.660 isn't a level playing field. Yeah. So it's crazy. So crazy. Well, you see that, um, not to roll in

00:41:02.520 social media stuff, but do you see that post where I can't remember who made the post, but it was a,

00:41:09.240 it was an ad and it depicted a person cutting the throat of a cop. Oh yeah. And someone reported it as

00:41:19.840 inappropriate and yeah. Yeah. And Facebook's response was like, this doesn't meet our regulations

00:41:27.180 and they, they didn't take it down. That's crazy. Threat of violence doesn't reach your

00:41:31.840 and like meet your guidelines. Yeah. And there's like a knife in the, in the throat and the person's

00:41:37.220 bleeding. Yeah. And then you, and then you look at some of this stuff that they are blocking. You're

00:41:41.540 like, those two things are not even like on the same playing field at all. Yeah. It's crazy.

00:41:48.100 Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to give them like necessarily the benefit of the doubt here, but

00:41:51.840 like I had a post on Instagram, this was probably six months or a year ago. And it was a, it was an

00:41:59.680 up close picture of me with my, my release from my bow and I was shooting, but it was just my release.

00:42:06.580 Like it was just like right there. So it's just my release. And they had marked it as sensitive

00:42:13.100 content. I'm like, what? Like, it's just my face. I know like my face isn't as attractive as maybe

00:42:20.900 you would like it to be, but it's literally like, it's my face. Like that can't change my,

00:42:26.080 I try to cover it up with my beard and I can only do so much. It's my face. Like, I'm not sure why

00:42:31.740 this is sensitive. And so giving social media, the benefit of the doubt, you know, somebody probably

00:42:36.980 reported it because they didn't like me or they didn't like hunting. So they're like, well, that's

00:42:42.160 report, report that. And these social media platforms are using algorithms or, or, or having

00:42:49.600 people follow guidelines that doesn't provide for any context or nuance. And that's actually one of

00:42:55.380 the biggest problems with social media by design. Like there's no ability to provide any context.

00:43:01.520 I made a post on Twitter months ago about, you know, just some things that I had accomplished.

00:43:07.060 I think we talked about this, some things like I was proud of that I had accomplished and looking

00:43:11.520 back on it now, I'm like, Oh yeah, I could see how that might come across as arrogant, but like surely

00:43:16.780 not to the degree of like retribution that I received for making that post. But again, giving the benefit

00:43:24.100 of the doubt, there's no context there. I, I actually believe in order to be successful on

00:43:30.240 Twitter, you have to be a bit of a pessimistic towards society anyways, but that's a whole other

00:43:34.020 conversation, but there's no context and nuance allowed in these social media platforms. And that's

00:43:39.820 why podcasting is so valuable. That's why face-to-face meetings are so valuable and why tweets and texts and

00:43:47.600 even email are less valuable than you and me sitting across face-to-face. Like this is better

00:43:53.960 than a text, what we're doing right now. And if we were doing this face-to-face, it would be even

00:43:58.440 better than what we're doing here. Yeah. So there's degrees of communication and this is superior to

00:44:06.060 text, but inferior to face-to-face and social media is at the, like the lower, the lower end of that,

00:44:13.780 that totem pole, if you will. Yeah. Effectiveness of a soundbite. Right.

00:44:18.100 Yeah. And that's the point, right? Again, that's like the clapback thing I was talking about, right?

00:44:23.200 Like if I can get you in a quick soundbite, I've got you. Your number is mine.

00:44:28.240 Yep. And it requires minimal brain cycles for someone to consume and come up with their own

00:44:33.820 opinion and judgment and they don't have to give much thought to it. Right. That's the idea.

00:44:37.680 All right. Chad, Miguel, I only have partial custody of my nine-year-old son every other weekend during

00:44:45.860 the year and every other week during the summer. I feel his mom, I feel his mom babies and coddles him

00:44:53.340 way too much. What are some tips and tactics that I can employ to, to counteract this in a short amount

00:45:00.680 of time that I have him? Well, I think you're probably already doing it when you're with him,

00:45:08.060 right? Which is to give him responsibility, have some level of accountability built in,

00:45:14.720 have consequences for your choices. Like all of those things I probably think you're doing. What

00:45:19.220 I think you might potentially be overlooking here is that there may be a way to make her an ally in this

00:45:26.800 because she wants what's best for him too. And I don't know, like, I know there's women who are

00:45:33.300 vengeful. I know there's women who I know that's there. I'm not dismissing that. I'm just saying

00:45:38.120 like, maybe there's an opportunity to not poke at her and say, well, you're not, you're not,

00:45:46.480 you're coddling him and you're overprotective and you're doing this and you're doing this.

00:45:49.200 And instead enlist her by explaining what you think he needs and then asking her in what way

00:46:01.120 do you think he could get that from me? This goes back to the stubborn four-year-old, by the way.

00:46:06.520 And I'm not saying by default, all women are stubborn. I'm not saying that better throw that

00:46:11.500 disclaimer because somebody is going to get pissed. They're going to hear that and say,

00:46:13.540 I can't believe you say that. Oh, I'm just saying this goes back to what we were talking about

00:46:19.000 earlier, that, that strong-willed four-year-old make it their idea. So you go to your wife,

00:46:24.620 your ex-wife or, or the, the mother of your, your baby. And you say, Hey, you know when, when

00:46:32.300 little Johnny's with me, I really want to make sure he's, he's getting what he needs from me as his

00:46:37.500 father, which is different than what he might need from you. And you do a wonderful job as his mother

00:46:42.640 and providing him all of that. I just think there might be a difference in the way that we approach

00:46:46.260 this. And I'm wondering just because he's with you more often, what you think I could do to be

00:46:51.460 able to provide him with the fatherly direction and guidance and structure that he may need that,

00:46:56.240 um, that maybe isn't being provided. Cause you know, I'm not in the house. Are there some things

00:47:03.640 that I can do that you see making her idea now? She's like, well, he just, he really needs discipline.

00:47:10.880 But she might actually come to you and say that. Yeah. Like she might actually, if you ask,

00:47:17.900 she might actually recognize her own shortcomings. My, my mom did, which is why she got me involved in,

00:47:25.000 in boy Scouts and competitive sports, because she knew she couldn't provide that fully to me.

00:47:29.080 She knew that it would take another man to do that. And so she made, she was adamant about me being

00:47:34.600 involved in competitive sports. And I'm so grateful to her that she was willing to make, to, to recognize

00:47:41.880 that. And then to make that decision. And I would think that this, the, this woman might actually feel

00:47:47.940 the same way. If you can enlist her in the cause, as opposed to position her as the enemy.

00:47:55.340 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I like that because she should maybe coddle him a little bit, right?

00:48:02.200 That's her, that's her job. That's her job. Yeah. Support love. That's her job.

00:48:07.520 Let her nurture. And I think the negative, I don't know, I might be wrong here. Maybe let me know what

00:48:13.420 you think about this idea, Ryan, but I think that a lot of the discipline and, you know, him coming into

00:48:22.000 this, into this approach to provide some, I don't know, I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm fighting for the words

00:48:28.200 here, but he wants to create some discipline and have his son be a little bit tougher. Some of,

00:48:33.860 some of that, as you create that for him, the coddling will naturally become less attractive

00:48:39.280 to him. Right. He'll, he'll then show up at mom's and go, Hey mom, mom, I don't, you know, like I'm

00:48:45.980 getting some self-confidence, right. And I can do this myself. And, and he's going to naturally not

00:48:52.240 want to get coddled as he builds confidence with you. And I think that's what you're, what we're

00:48:57.560 trying to, or at least I would suggest that you're trying to do when he's with you. It's not just like

00:49:02.540 putting through the ringer, you're trying to build self-confidence. So he feels confident that he can

00:49:08.300 do something on his own. And that's the power of what, what you're saying, Ryan, of give him some

00:49:13.660 control, give him some reins, let him learn that I can do this on my own, whatever, whatever that is,

00:49:20.320 whether it's mowing the lawn or putting himself to bed or, or whatever you find out, how do you

00:49:26.640 build that confidence? So then that way he doesn't need as much coddling anymore because he believes

00:49:31.760 that he can do it himself. Yeah. That's a good point. John Eldridge kind of touches on this point

00:49:36.560 in his book, wild at heart. And I can't remember the exact verbiage, but it's something to the effect

00:49:41.540 of, you know, women are answering or are attempting in their life to answer the question. Am I lovely?

00:49:50.320 Like, am I worthy of being loved essentially? Okay. Yeah. Men on the other hand are constantly

00:49:57.160 asking the question, am I capable? Can I do this all on my own? And the closer that women move towards

00:50:07.160 the answer to their question and the closer that men move towards the answer to their question,

00:50:11.060 the more confidence to your point that they're going to develop and they're going to reject.

00:50:15.780 This is why a lot of guys will have eventually mommy issues, right? Or they'll hear their mom say,

00:50:24.260 Oh honey, it's okay. Oh sweetheart. It's okay. Because that's not capability, right? Like the

00:50:29.920 mom's trying to get them to love them because they're trying to answer the question. Am I lovely? Am I

00:50:34.500 lovable? And the man is like, that's not what I want. No, am I capable? And being tied to you

00:50:40.760 doesn't help me be capable. So then what ends up happening in an unhealthy situation, there's a lot

00:50:47.660 of resentment and animosity between a son and his mother. And what a father does is a father bridges

00:50:55.620 the gap or kind of separates that tie a little bit from mom. So it allows a mother to focus on the

00:51:01.720 husband so that the son can eventually separate and go out and build his own kingdom. But if the dad's

00:51:07.280 not there, that separation rarely happens unless the mom is emotionally aware enough to say in some

00:51:16.980 ways I might be hindering my son. And so I need to let him go because him answering his question

00:51:25.180 is more important than me getting an answer to my question. That would be a very loving gesture.

00:51:31.740 And so I need to let him go and get him involved around other men who can help him answer his

00:51:37.820 question, which again, is more important than the woman answering hers, the mom answering her

00:51:43.160 question. Well, and I would assume that in some cases that mom assumes that that his question is

00:51:49.520 the same as hers. And that's a major issue, right? Because we assume all like, oh, he's trying to

00:51:55.840 answer the same question I'm trying to answer. And honey, I do love you and you are great,

00:52:00.420 you know, and it'll be okay. And you are lovable. And it's like, that's not even his question.

00:52:06.540 That's not even what he's looking for. Right. You're providing solutions to problems he doesn't

00:52:11.440 have. Like he's not worried about, do you love me? And even with fathers, like a son isn't interested

00:52:19.860 in, does my father love me? They'll say that like, oh, I'd never disconnected my, I don't know if my

00:52:24.460 father love. That's not the question. The question is, did he approve of you? And approval means

00:52:32.960 capability. I approve of you. Like if I'm approving of my son, for example, because he's capable and

00:52:40.660 proficient at a thing. And so men aren't interested in the love of their father. They're interested in

00:52:47.620 the approval of their father, which ties into capability, not being lovely. Yeah. And I think

00:52:53.940 that's where a lot of guys, what that another word that I think we use sometimes, or at least I do

00:52:59.560 is that's respect. Sure. Yeah. Move of me means he respects me. Sure. As, as a man capable. Right.

00:53:09.640 Yeah. Cool. Let's take a couple more kit. All right. Uh, Steven, uh, Drummond, uh, with the way this

00:53:16.940 group and movement has taken off, have y'all thought about making chapters based on regional locations to

00:53:23.200 have more focused discussions and get togethers with those around us to help each other grow.

00:53:28.940 Yeah. I mean, we have, I've done, we've done a lot of that in inside the iron council. Um,

00:53:33.400 a lot of that is happening just because in fact, I saw a post of yours Kip the other day where you

00:53:37.780 had posted, it's been a couple of years, but you were your echo guys, right? I think is what it was.

00:53:42.280 And so that is happening within the iron council. These guys are having meetups and connecting and

00:53:46.920 going on adventures and doing some very cool stuff together. Uh, we've talked about it for a long

00:53:51.360 time and it's something that's still on my radar, although it's on the edges, the outskirts of my

00:53:55.880 radar, which is recent regional order of men chapters. The reason I haven't up to this point

00:54:02.140 is just because I'm not willing to invest that much time and energy into creating something like

00:54:08.960 that, because that would detract from the other priorities that I have made important in my life.

00:54:15.040 And I'm using that language very intentionally. I could definitely do it, but I have chosen not to

00:54:22.240 currently right now because I have other things that are more important to me.

00:54:26.960 And I've said that to people in some way, well, you know, you really have an obligation. I don't

00:54:31.360 have an obligation to anybody that I haven't made an obligation to. So, so if you think I have an

00:54:38.840 obligation to you because I started this movement, then you've got another thing coming. And I don't

00:54:43.360 think this guy's asking that question or even alluding to that. So I just want to be clear on

00:54:47.080 that, but look, that might happen down the road, but there's nothing to stop you from doing it now.

00:54:54.720 I know that there's men who are meeting on a weekly basis and they will, they're, they've purchased a

00:55:00.420 copy of sovereignty for each one of them. They're reading the book. They're going through it on a week

00:55:05.820 by week basis. And they're listening to the podcast and they are getting together and having

00:55:10.240 discussions about what it is we're talking about. There's nothing to keep you from doing that.

00:55:14.740 Oh, well, Ryan, you have the, you have this, you have the infrastructure. That's an excuse.

00:55:18.840 You can do it. Just do it. Hey, this, this weekend, we're going to meet at IHOP or whatever.

00:55:24.800 And we're going to have this, or we're going to meet after this church sermon, or we're going to

00:55:28.880 meet at the community center on Tuesday at six o'clock, or we're going to have a pickup game of

00:55:32.340 basketball every morning at 5am, whatever, whatever it looks like to you. And then post it in the

00:55:38.160 Facebook group. Hey guys, anybody in the Dallas area, anybody in the Portland area, anybody in the

00:55:43.300 wherever, wherever you are, Salt Lake area, here's what we're doing. Love to have you come and be

00:55:48.720 consistent, have a plan and make it happen. You can do it. And you have my blessing and permission to do

00:55:53.600 it. There you go. Okay. Andrew, uh, Leonard's my oldest five is highly competitive. Everything is a

00:56:03.360 competition. Who can dress faster, who can get down the stairs faster, but he does, but he isn't

00:56:08.280 first. He does not handle it. Well, when he's not first, he doesn't handle it. Well, how do I teach

00:56:12.840 him to use that competitive nature to his advantage while also teaching him how to lose gracefully and

00:56:19.240 use that to get better the next time? He's five. Yeah. It's tough with a five-year-old because you

00:56:27.000 can't really have those like emotionally intelligent discussions about, Hey, look, don't get upset when

00:56:32.420 you lose, like use it as fuel to get better. Right. So, okay. You lost that thing. What three

00:56:38.460 things can you implement now to make you better next time? Maybe at five, you could probably have

00:56:44.120 that to some degree, like not just not explaining it. You're just like, Hey, but don't get mad next

00:56:48.500 time. You'll get them next time. Right. Yeah. So just say that. Yeah. So just explain it, like break it

00:56:54.680 down and say, okay, so you lost getting changed. Like I can appreciate that. I mean, you thought it was a

00:57:00.560 race, right? So what are you going to, how are you going to do better next time? I'll get my clothes

00:57:05.580 laid out before. Perfect. Try that. We'll see how it goes, you know, or time them. Yeah. It's like,

00:57:13.680 look, Hey, you lost. Like I got ready first, you lost, but you were two seconds faster than you were

00:57:19.680 yesterday. And that's pretty cool. Or show them how to lose against himself. Yeah. And show them

00:57:25.700 how to lose. Like you compete with him and how do you, what do you do when you lose? You know, you

00:57:30.400 go, Oh man, you got me next time though. Next time I'm going to get you, you know, and just look for

00:57:36.060 opportunities to lose and show him how that looks or how that should look. I was thinking about that

00:57:40.740 with competing in jujitsu just recently. I'm like, I should go compete. Like I've never had a really

00:57:46.920 desire to compete, but I'm like, I should go compete. And then my next thought was like, well,

00:57:52.380 what if my family watches, my watches, sees me lose? I'm like, that's actually better than me

00:57:57.520 winning for them. Yeah. It would be better for them to see me lose. Like for my boys to see me get my

00:58:05.040 ass kicked and then get up and then do it again. That would be better than them seeing me dominate

00:58:11.660 everybody. Yeah. Just not good for the ego is all totally it's selfish. That's all.

00:58:16.880 That's all it is. That's all it ever is. Yeah. Yeah. I've had moments of, you know,

00:58:23.320 I think first few competitions, like Kyavi, like was crying when I get my butt kicked. I was like,

00:58:31.200 Oh, but again, that's good for him. Cause then he sees you, he sees you get choked out and you're

00:58:36.740 like, okay, you tap and then you get up and then, you know, five minutes or half an hour later,

00:58:43.220 you go back on the mat and you do it again. And he's like, what my mind, my, my worldview has just

00:58:50.100 been shattered. Like he just got his ass handed to him and like, dad's going to do it again. This

00:58:55.000 is crazy for more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good for him. All right. This is a quick question.

00:59:02.200 David is the last one Kip. All right. David Osburnson as a father, is it good to teach your

00:59:07.800 kids about discipline equals freedom? Yes. Let's wrap it up. Maybe, maybe said better.

00:59:14.840 How, what's maybe a strategy of teaching them discipline equals freedom?

00:59:20.240 You know, the phrase is a really interesting one because if you think about discipline, it's,

00:59:27.220 it's self-imposed, it's self-imposed. Yeah. Like somebody can't exert discipline on you

00:59:32.940 by its nature. Discipline is something you have to exert upon yourself, right? Nobody else can like,

00:59:40.800 they can force you to get out of bed. They can force you or coerce you or manipulate to do things,

00:59:45.940 but then that's not discipline. That's not discipline. Yeah. That's something entirely

00:59:49.780 different. Discipline is self-imposed and by its very nature, it's restrictive.

00:59:56.400 I'm going to get out of bed and I'm going to restrict the amount of sleep that I'm going to get.

01:00:00.980 I'm going to restrict potentially even my immediate health because I'm going to go run or I'm going to

01:00:08.880 do these things that put me in pain and make me suffer. Like by its very nature, discipline is

01:00:14.720 restrictive and it's painful and it's awkward and it's uncomfortable. So how is it then that it can

01:00:21.380 lead to freedom? It doesn't actually lead to universal freedom. It leads to the kind of freedom that

01:00:29.560 you're after. It's kind of like the adage. You can have anything you want. You just can't have

01:00:35.440 everything. Like if you want to be lean and fit, if that's what you want, you can have that,

01:00:43.540 but you can't have all the pizza. So that's the discipline equals freedom. So the freedom isn't

01:00:49.620 universal freedom. It's freedom that you've defined. I want to be free, for example, with my health and I

01:00:55.540 want to be lean and I want to be strong and I want to feel good about myself and I want to be capable

01:01:00.580 and I want to be able to do things. And so I'm willing to give up a little bit of sleep,

01:01:08.600 a little bit of satisfaction as I eat food that isn't going to be conducive towards me achieving

01:01:14.880 those objectives. So I think there's some nuance in the phrase discipline equals freedom that you're

01:01:20.520 going to need to explain to your children is it's not universal bliss. It's not universal freedom.

01:01:26.200 So figure out what do your kids want? Like Brecken, he's really into this bodybuilding thing right

01:01:31.460 now. He's been watching videos. Yeah. He loves it. He's been watching videos and like he even does

01:01:36.280 poses. He's like, check out this pose and do this. And then last night he came to me. He's like,

01:01:40.600 Hey dad, do I, do I look good? I said, you know, you've lost some weight, but you got some room to

01:01:44.280 go. Cause I don't lie to my kids. Like, I'm not going to say, yes, you look good. Like you,

01:01:48.680 you're dialed in. You're perfect. No, I'm going to be like, yeah, you've lost a little weight.

01:01:52.400 You've done well, but you have room for improvement. And, uh, and so I said, but look,

01:01:59.180 if this is what you want, I think it's a worthy goal. What are you willing to trade for it?

01:02:03.300 And he's like, what do you mean? And I said, you got to, yeah, exactly. I said, that's what I said.

01:02:07.020 I said, you got to pay for it. He's like, what do you mean pay for it? And I said, well,

01:02:10.400 I'm not talking about money, but you do have to pay for that. Cause he's big into Arnold Schwarzenegger.

01:02:16.780 I'm like Arnold Schwarzenegger had a sacrifice, left his homeland. He was hours in the gym.

01:02:24.180 And you can have that if you're willing to pay the price that he did. And if you're not,

01:02:28.900 that's okay. Be truthful about it. But if you really want what he has, then you need to pay

01:02:33.200 what he paid. And so we've talked a lot about that and I encourage it and I foster it. We're

01:02:38.860 working on a 90 day battle planner for kids. Actually. I don't know if I told you about that.

01:02:43.060 Yep. Yeah. Um, and he's been doing it every day, every single day because he has that plan

01:02:49.380 in front of him. So that's something to look out for, but just have these discussions about paying

01:02:54.220 the price. Yeah. Discipline equals freedom, not unequivocal, not universal freedom, freedom for

01:03:02.060 the thing that you actually want. Yeah. And, and a good lesson for us. I mean, we've had this

01:03:07.380 conversation before. It's like when we set up goals and plans for ourselves, like we need to ask

01:03:12.360 ourselves, what am I willing to do and what am I willing not to do to accomplish this? And if

01:03:19.140 you're, if that's not clear, you're wasting your time. You know, it's, it's the, the best analogy

01:03:24.320 of this, I think is everyone wants to be rich, right? Uh, I want to be a millionaire. Everyone

01:03:30.420 will all probably all say yes to that. Yes. I want to be a millionaire. But the question they should be

01:03:34.700 asking is, am I willing to do the work to become one? And that's where most of us then say, no,

01:03:43.480 I am not willing. And that's okay. I actually think, I actually think most people don't say

01:03:48.340 that. I think most people say, yes, I'm willing to do the work. And then they bullshit themselves

01:03:54.000 through it. And then they wonder why they're not seeing the results because they're actually not

01:03:58.040 doing the work. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But what you're saying is they're not truthful with

01:04:02.700 themselves. Yes. They're willing to not willing to do. Yeah. And you need to be truthful. Like I

01:04:08.000 used to think when I started podcasting, like, Oh, I want to be like Joe Rogan. I want to have a

01:04:11.040 podcast like Joe Rogan. And there's elements of it that I really admire about what he's created,

01:04:15.820 but I'm like now, cause I'm more mature about this. I'm like, I'm not willing to pay that price.

01:04:22.440 Yeah. And I'm totally okay with that. I'm okay with that. Yeah. And that opens up some capacity

01:04:31.220 in your mind as well. When you're clear on what you're willing and we're not willing to do.

01:04:35.760 Otherwise, if you just held onto this expectation of like, Oh, Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan, but you're not

01:04:40.900 clear on what you're willing, not willing to do. Then you're upset with yourself, man, we're not getting

01:04:44.840 there. You're just wasting cycles of energy and contentment and everything else because you want

01:04:51.760 something, but you'd never clearly identified if you're willing to actually do the work to get

01:04:55.420 there. Right. It's just, it's such a liberate truth is such a liberating way to operate your life.

01:05:01.260 And so what people will say all the time is like, Oh, I can't do that. No, you can. That's the thing.

01:05:07.060 You can do it, but you're consciously deciding not to do it, which is fine. Yeah. It's fine.

01:05:15.560 If that aligns with what you're after, but don't BS yourself, just tell yourself the truth.

01:05:23.560 I'm not willing to do that. You know, people ask me all the time. Okay. Will you do a podcast this

01:05:28.240 weekend? No. Hey, I appreciate that. You're asking me if you can make it work from Monday through

01:05:33.180 Friday, nine to five Eastern. I'm all on. Let's do it. Oh, I only do it on the weekends or I've got a

01:05:39.760 full-time job. So I can only do it on the weekends. Well, when you're ready to do it the weekdays,

01:05:43.280 then I'll do it with you. Cause I'm not willing to do it on the weekends. Cause I have other

01:05:47.920 priorities that I have identified as being important and I'm going to stick to those

01:05:52.160 things. Yeah. So love it. Be truthful. Be truthful. All right, guys, submit your questions for future

01:06:00.980 AMAs on Facebook, facebook.com slash group slash order of man to learn more about the iron council.

01:06:07.320 We talk about it obviously from time to time. You can go to order of man.com slash iron council.

01:06:11.860 We have two main main events, uh, coming up later this year, September 3rd through the 6th is our

01:06:20.660 legacy event. That's a boy 18 or eight to 15 years old and father could be nephews, but obviously kind

01:06:29.520 of in general speaking, generally speaking, a father and son event, um, in Maine to learn more about

01:06:35.880 legacy, go to order of man.com slash legacy. And then we have our order of man main event, uh, in

01:06:43.680 Maine, the state Maine, October 9th through the 11th to learn more about that, go to order of man.com

01:06:50.580 slash main event. And of course, to support this podcast and this movement, uh, you got to share the,

01:06:56.840 share the message and you can do that. Yeah. You gotta, you, you can do that a number of different

01:07:02.120 ways, whether it's podcast links, YouTube, Facebook, uh, following Mr. Mickler on Instagram

01:07:09.380 or Twitter or representing with swag, uh, by going to the store.orderofman.com and, and getting

01:07:15.700 t-shirts and hats and whatnot. So that's how you support. Do it, do it. All right, guys. Hope that

01:07:24.260 helped. Um, we got a special, ask me anything guest next, next week, Brian Mitchler, my alter

01:07:31.980 ego is Brian, Brian Mitch is going to be joining you Kip. So that could be interesting. We'll see

01:07:41.040 how that goes. We've got some good questions. Yeah. Did you just assume his gender?

01:07:48.140 That's inappropriate. I'm sorry.

01:07:49.660 All right, guys. Well, appreciate you. Hopefully this, uh, gave you some insight and some feedback

01:07:55.400 and some things that'll help. Uh, appreciate you just as I know Kip, you do as well. Um, man,

01:08:00.460 it's just good to be in the battle together. We need more people in this, more engaged men in this

01:08:05.540 fight. You know, we talk about the silent majority, like we can't be silent. We, the majority part is

01:08:11.620 good, but we just can't be silent anymore. We got to share it. We got to put the word out.

01:08:15.620 And that's what we're doing here. We've been doing that for over five years and we're just

01:08:19.900 asking you to do it. So stop being silent about it. If you, if you have, look, if you have truth,

01:08:24.720 you have information, you have things perspective that would help another individual, then frankly,

01:08:30.340 you have a moral obligation to share it. And some of us haven't been as vocal as we could have been.

01:08:35.200 And we're experiencing the negative ramifications of that. So be vocal. If you, if you, if you find value

01:08:40.980 what we're doing here and you think other people would be served by it, then share it. Stop being

01:08:44.280 silent. All right. Just share it. Stop being greedy and selfish. If you have information and

01:08:49.420 I don't care, I'm not even talking about this podcast, talking about this podcast and anything

01:08:53.080 else that serves you well, whether it's a book or a podcast or a connection or a resource or what

01:08:58.600 skillset don't be greedy, share it. That's what we do as men. We produce. So go produce by sharing

01:09:05.260 value with other people. All right, guys, we'll be back. Let's see tomorrow for another interview,

01:09:11.200 but until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:09:14.840 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:09:18.960 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - June 24, 2020

Working with a Stubborn Child, Raising Daughters, and Creating Rites of Passage ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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