Order of Man - You Are Your Own Boss, What Men Value in Women, and Fighting Against Victimhood

00:00:00.000 it's just the circumstances and we rise above the circumstances. Like it is what it is. Everybody

00:00:04.620 has hardship. Everybody has struggles and here's ours, at least part of ours. And here's how we

00:00:09.080 deal with it. You know what I get frustrated with is when I see people walking around with all their

00:00:12.960 mental and physical ailments and they wear it like a badge of honor. Like, oh, I have ADHD and

00:00:17.840 I have this and bipolar disorder and this. It's like, are you excited about, like you seem excited

00:00:22.420 about that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but your identity should be, I'm doing this in spite

00:00:27.900 of, not I'm this way so I can't. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace

00:00:35.140 your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one

00:00:40.340 more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This

00:00:47.460 is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And

00:00:52.820 after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:57.900 Kip, what's up, man? Great to see you on this fine Monday morning. I'm a little under the

00:01:01.560 weather, but, uh, here we are doing our thing on Martin Luther King day today. I was told,

00:01:06.700 I don't, I have a hard time with some of these holidays. I mean, I don't, I don't have anything

00:01:10.760 wrong with Martin Luther King day, but I don't know. So many people are like, oh, it's the day

00:01:14.840 off. And I'm like, it's just another day to me, I suppose. Yeah. I'm the same way. Labor

00:01:19.800 days. Labor days. Labor days. Go ahead. Well, I'm just laughing. Labor day is the interesting

00:01:25.500 one to me. I'll go labor day is the interesting one to me because you're celebrating your, our,

00:01:30.480 our ability and right to work and all the work that's been created and you celebrate it by doing

00:01:35.640 the opposite of labor. I've never understood that one, but yeah, so be it. If it's an excuse

00:01:40.440 to party or celebrate, then I guess by all means, but I go to work usually. Yeah. Same. I'm just

00:01:47.340 laughing because I've, I know you have unhealthy relationship with, uh, with too many holidays.

00:01:52.420 So fake holidays, as I call them, we can honor and celebrate people with their fake holidays.

00:01:58.120 They're not real holidays. So it's funny. I was talking with somebody, I was getting my

00:02:02.460 haircut the other day and the, the, uh, woman was, I don't know if she was asked, it was

00:02:07.980 like maybe a Friday or something. And she was asking me what I do for work. And I said, Oh,

00:02:11.740 I work at home. I work for myself and I have this, you know, men's leadership company. And

00:02:15.260 she's like, Oh, that's cool. She's like, it must be nice. Like, like you're all done for the day.

00:02:19.480 You can just take the day off. I'm like, excuse me. And she's like, yeah, I'm stuck here working.

00:02:24.680 And I'm like, well, I'm going right back to work. She's like, I thought you said you worked at your

00:02:27.740 house. I'm like, yeah, I work at my house. That's where my office is. But I think people have a

00:02:34.320 really, a real misunderstanding of what it means to work for yourself and be an entrepreneur. They think,

00:02:40.920 oh, you have so much freedom and flexibility and you do of course, but you still have to make smart

00:02:45.680 decisions in order to run the business effectively. Yeah. And it comes at a price. That's where,

00:02:50.980 that's where I get a little sideways with so many social media influencers constantly suggesting that

00:02:58.340 we should all be entrepreneurs. And I'm like, I actually don't know if I agree with that. I, and I

00:03:04.140 don't think most people want to, when it comes down to it, it's just, they have this false

00:03:08.180 understanding of what it entails. And they think like that lady does is like, oh, you must not

00:03:13.160 work as much as the rest of us. And it's like, well, or I just never stopped working in my mind's

00:03:18.080 constantly working anyway. You know? So yeah, it's funny how that is.

00:03:23.220 I agree that not everybody should be, or even wants to be an entrepreneur, but I think those people

00:03:28.380 who aren't ought to have a real awareness of the threats that exist. I think as an entrepreneur,

00:03:33.800 you're a, you're a little bit more intimately familiar with the threat of not having work or

00:03:41.000 the threat of being injured or the threat of not having a steady paycheck or the threat of not

00:03:46.420 having benefits like health insurance coverage. Like all of those things are part of what it means to

00:03:52.480 be an entrepreneur. But I think you're a little bit shielded as an employee of an organization,

00:03:56.640 you're actually exposed to the very same risk, but you just don't see it on a daily basis. Like

00:04:01.740 somebody who's an entrepreneur might. So your ability to lose your job could come today based

00:04:08.420 on factors that are your fault and based on things that are completely outside of your control. I mean,

00:04:12.840 think about at a mass scale, what happened in 2019 and 2020 with our response and reaction to COVID.

00:04:20.100 How many people lost jobs, lost businesses that have never recovered. So even as an employee,

00:04:26.840 there's two things I would say. Number one, be aware of the threats that exist and make sure your

00:04:30.560 financial house is in order. And number two is you still are your own boss.

00:04:38.440 Yeah. And if more employees took that to heart and realize that they have clients too, it's just that

00:04:46.580 their client is the business that's hired them as an employee of that company, but your client is the

00:04:51.880 business. And in the meantime, you're working with their clients. And typically those clients are

00:04:56.760 their clients that are not yours. Your client is the business. So be very aware of that.

00:05:01.280 Yeah. And, and it, what a great mindset to have, right? Those kinds of employees that have that

00:05:05.620 mindset around their employment that, that see that it's almost like a contract. You start not being

00:05:14.180 passive with your employment, with, with your company that you happen to work for. You start saying,

00:05:19.120 okay, well, how do I know I'm successful? How do I ensure success? Let me get feedback from you to

00:05:24.000 make sure that I'd be successful. Just like if you were a client, everyone should have that

00:05:28.820 entrepreneurial mindset, whether you're being a W2 1099 or, or contract services regardless.

00:05:36.120 Right. Yeah. Interesting stuff. We're all, we're all self-employed in a way. You just got to act like

00:05:42.060 that. I think based on who your client and your employer is. Yeah, absolutely. Well, another event's

00:05:47.700 happening today as well. The inauguration. Yeah. I think it actually already happened. I think I

00:05:52.200 just got a text or notification or a news alert or something that he's been sworn in. Trump has been

00:05:57.120 sworn in as, as the 47th president, just on a anecdotal level, there is so much optimism I have

00:06:05.940 seen over the past four to six weeks in life in general, not, not just me personally, but in culture,

00:06:12.040 in business, in the markets, in international and foreign affairs. Like I, do you agree with that?

00:06:17.580 Or am I just in my own little bubble and it's a bit of confirmation bias on my phone? I don't know.

00:06:21.540 I mean, my, my bubble is probably very similar to yours. So, but I feel it as well. I feel it as

00:06:27.300 well. I think there's a lot of optimism about the market, about businesses in general. I don't know.

00:06:33.860 I feel it, but it, but it might be my circles as well. Yeah. I like, I like what Ben Shapiro says.

00:06:40.500 I mean, there's a lot that I like what that Ben Shapiro says. And one thing in particular is how

00:06:44.380 he analyzes Trump's domestic and international foreign policy. And he basically says that Trump

00:06:51.440 is a realist and he's pragmatic. All he cares about is stacking up wins. He wants to win.

00:06:58.840 He wants the victories and it makes him pragmatic. So his principle is around what is best for this

00:07:05.380 country in order to produce big wins for the country. So we can debate and argue Trump's

00:07:12.620 morals. And, and I think I would agree like most people that he's not near the top of the list of

00:07:18.960 morality for sure. Yeah. But he is also a very pragmatic person who wants to stack wins in America's

00:07:26.880 favor and best interest. And it might be for his own personal glorification. And in this case,

00:07:31.800 fine with me, if you're, if that's the case, even I actually believe he loves America and he loves

00:07:37.160 Americans. But if you don't think that at least we can acknowledge that his desire for a legacy,

00:07:44.280 let's say, uh, happens to align with American values of exceptionalism and prosperity and freedom and

00:07:52.140 religion and all the other things that this country were founded on. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know,

00:07:57.840 before we hit record, we're talking about executive orders. How are you feeling? I've heard that

00:08:03.420 there's a massive list that he plans to execute, like literally day one. What are your thoughts on

00:08:09.180 that? I don't, I don't know how many executive orders he's planning on signing today. I pulled

00:08:14.540 up a list of a few and I don't quite frankly know how many executive orders other presidents have

00:08:19.660 signed. I do know that historically it continues to increase and increase and increase,

00:08:24.520 and I'm not enough of a United States government type scholar that I know the intricacies of what

00:08:31.260 is allowable for an executive order and what isn't, but, and I should research and study up on

00:08:37.360 it more. If I'm going to have an opinion about it, that probably would be a good thing. Yeah. But I,

00:08:42.440 I'm not a huge fan of executive orders on either side of the table because it seems to me with the

00:08:48.940 limited information that I have that it usurps our representation as citizens. Now look, we,

00:08:56.920 we elected president Trump collectively, so you could make that argument. But I think more than

00:09:03.280 that is we send our congressmen, our senators, our representatives to the government to represent

00:09:11.780 our self-interest. And it seems to me that executive orders usurp a lot of that, even though I can go

00:09:18.120 through this list and think, these are all pretty good things to me, but it's a precedent that allows

00:09:24.580 both sides of the table to just go ahead and sign executive orders willy nilly whenever they feel

00:09:29.640 like they want to change instead of going through the halls of Congress, which is, seems to me was

00:09:34.280 the purpose of the executive branch executives carry carries out, executes the orders and the laws that

00:09:41.780 Congress come up with. So yeah. Got it. Got it. Yeah. As far as, as far as some of the, go, go ahead.

00:09:49.660 No, no, no. I was just, I know, no, I was just going to say something that like, and, and I know it's,

00:09:55.700 it's not the same exact correlation, but, but I always, I love this analogy that if it requires

00:10:03.360 authority to get it done, then one of two things are in place. One, you fail to enlist and involve

00:10:13.380 the appropriate people for buy-in, right? And, or you shouldn't maybe be doing it. And, and I know

00:10:19.680 that's a little bit different from a governmental perspective, but I just, I have a tendency to

00:10:24.460 always look at everything from a perspective of leadership. And, and there's, we got to be careful

00:10:30.060 when we default to authority to get things done. And, and that should always just be go,

00:10:39.080 okay, well, hold on. Is this getting done strictly just because of command and control and authority

00:10:43.460 or, and if so, why, what, why does it require the authority to execute? Why can't I convince

00:10:52.300 and, or get other people involved through my influence? And, and I know that's a little bit

00:10:56.900 more complex. I want to talk about two-party systems and everything else, but I think it's

00:11:00.680 just a good thing for us to always consider, especially even with our kids, right?

00:11:07.100 I, I don't entirely agree with that. I understand what you're saying. And I agree with the premise

00:11:11.540 that we should always look for buy-in from the people that we're leading. Um, and we should ask

00:11:15.340 ourselves, why do we need to exert it in this way instead of having that buy-in? But there are things

00:11:20.260 as a government official and there are things as even a father where, no, this is the order.

00:11:27.100 And so the two qualifiers you gave, I don't necessarily always agree with that. Why aren't

00:11:31.940 people bought in? Well, my kids aren't going, aren't bought into going to bed on time or aren't

00:11:36.660 bought into doing the dishes. And then I shouldn't be doing it. Shouldn't be doing what? Putting the

00:11:41.400 kids to bed on time or having them clean the house. You see what I'm saying? So I think, I think what

00:11:46.740 you're suggesting, and I agree with this is that we ought to be aware of if we're having to do it

00:11:51.580 this way, why, what other factors can we change in the way that we approach these things that need

00:12:00.060 to get done in order to get buy-in so that it doesn't have to be this knock down, drag out fight

00:12:06.200 every time you want the kids to go to bed, for example. Yeah. And, and authority will only last you

00:12:11.220 so long, right? That will work when your kids are little. Um, once they start becoming teenagers

00:12:17.220 and other things, it's like, oh shit, well, I guess I actually have to communicate more effectively

00:12:21.520 to, to get them to do something that I would like them to do. And now we start talking about

00:12:26.440 the importance of being a position of influence and not just ruling through authority. And, and often

00:12:33.460 in this context, it's, it's really about, is it about the thing getting done or is this really about

00:12:39.740 teaching our children to want to do something that is difficult to do? And yeah, it's fair.

00:12:45.880 Yeah. If we default to authority, then yeah, it will get done. But we, we lost sight of the entire

00:12:50.680 purpose. Yeah. It's that commitment versus, um, uh, well, what's the other one? Commitment versus

00:12:58.440 compliance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I was, I must've been, I don't know, 16, 17 years old

00:13:05.280 and, uh, my mom and I'd always been a pretty good kid, good, good grades, very active and

00:13:11.080 no, truly true. I'm actually being honest about that. I was always pretty good. Not,

00:13:16.600 not really much trouble at all. Um, but yeah, good grades. I was on sports teams, like keeping up with

00:13:22.880 my homework. Like it was fine. Everything was good. And I remember one day my mom was like,

00:13:26.300 Hey, you need to be home by this time or whatever. And I said, no, I'm not going to do that.

00:13:30.820 Um, and she's like, what? And I said, no, I'm not going to be home at that time.

00:13:37.120 And she's like, why, what are you talking about? And I said, my grades are like 3.8, 3.9.

00:13:44.820 I'm active in sports. I don't get into trouble. Like I've got good friends, you know, all of them.

00:13:50.740 I'm not coming home at that time. I said, but if my grades slip or I mess up in football or sports

00:13:55.640 or whatever it might be, then we can have that discussion. But no, I'm not going to. And she's

00:14:00.720 like, Oh, okay. And then from that point forward, but again, I think that had a little bit to do

00:14:08.520 with my personality and the fact that I was doing well enough over here that that wasn't an issue,

00:14:12.580 you know? And so, uh, but I've always been a little independent, but it is funny when you

00:14:16.440 start to have, see that your kids gain some of this independence, you're like, excuse me,

00:14:20.720 what did you just say? Yeah, totally. All right, man. Well, let's get, well, I was going to

00:14:28.380 actually mention some of these executive orders. Uh, there's, we don't really know how many are

00:14:33.580 going to be signed today, but there are 10 that are interesting to me. Um, as far as it goes with

00:14:37.860 immigration, uh, also defining sex and ending DEI programs, uh, national emergency and electric

00:14:44.560 vehicle mandates. I'm not going to go through all of these, but a couple that stood out to me

00:14:47.820 are number one, declaring a national emergency at the border. I think that's a wise move. Um, that

00:14:53.220 will allow, it says here, and this is in NPR, the armed forces to finish the border wall and security

00:14:59.680 fence to deploy members of the armed forces and national guard to the border, which I think is

00:15:03.620 warranted. Um, and catch and release is a big one because we're not just going to release people.

00:15:11.100 They never, they never go back to their court. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Um, uh, designate criminal

00:15:17.820 called cartels as terrorists. There's a lot in here. I'm not going through all of it. This one's

00:15:22.620 interesting to me. Um, this is going to be a struggle. I think right here says end birthright

00:15:27.940 citizenship. I can't see him doing this through executive order, but it says here, the official

00:15:31.900 said the white house plans to end birthright and citizenship, which is enshrined in the 14th

00:15:36.320 amendment. They argue the amendment does not automatically birthright, excuse me, does not

00:15:40.580 recognize automatic birthright citizenship for the citizens born in the U S to parents without legal

00:15:45.880 status. So there's going to be a lot of legal challenges on that one. I'm sure. Yeah. I'm not

00:15:50.580 horribly opposed to that. I just don't know how you enact that when you have kids here

00:15:55.440 who are born in the U S who we're now debating and arguing whether or not they're citizens.

00:16:01.160 That's an interesting one. Uh, and then there, this one, this one was big to me on a, on a

00:16:05.820 different subject ending or defining sex and ending DI programs. A lot of these DI programs

00:16:10.240 will be, um, ended within the federal bureaus and, and organizations, government agencies.

00:16:16.180 And then also, yeah. Also the government, uh, says that the policy of the United States to

00:16:22.800 recognize two biologically distinct sexes, male and female. So I think that is actually,

00:16:28.400 uh, a very, very good thing because that's the reality that you can call yourself a woman. If

00:16:34.200 you're a man, you can call yourself a man. If you're a woman, you can obviously still do

00:16:37.040 that, but you're not a different sex. We're defining it as two, two sexes. And I think that

00:16:41.820 brings a lot of truth back to the cultural conversation. Cause obviously politics has

00:16:47.580 tremendous influence on culture. So like I said, other ones, national energy emergency.

00:16:54.460 So that way we can drill again and open up American, uh, energy, which I think obviously,

00:16:59.800 why would we want to buy energy from other countries that don't believe in our way of life?

00:17:06.420 That seems ridiculous to me. So stuff like that. Yeah. It'll be interesting.

00:17:11.820 It's going to be interesting. Like I said, all of these, I, I pretty, I asked some questions

00:17:16.700 about some, but for the most part, as I go through this list, I'm pretty interesting.

00:17:20.940 Yeah. And then of course we saw Fauci, Mark Milley, um, all of the J six committee all, uh,

00:17:26.820 pardoned at midnight last night. That's that is again, more precedent for other, of course it is.

00:17:33.920 And it's just more precedent for other presidents, regardless of what side of your side of the

00:17:39.720 island you're on to continue to do this down the road. Yeah. Yeah. It really sets the wrong tone.

00:17:45.080 Um, so let's jump into questions. We got some from the iron council as well as the, uh, the gram

00:17:50.520 Instagram, um, Mark Andre Hachet. I did, I did way better with names than you did last week.

00:17:59.920 I'm sure you did. Although this one has, this is, this is a hard name. I had, I think I had pretty

00:18:05.760 easy names. So I think maybe I did botch a lot of them. I don't know. I'm like, yeah,

00:18:09.120 the reality of it is it's all about how you deliver and with confidence because who knows

00:18:14.520 if you pronounce it wrong, that one person, but if you hesitate that way. Yeah. If you hesitate

00:18:20.720 without confidence, everyone's like, yeah, he slaughtered it. So whatever I pronounced it right.

00:18:25.620 All right. So with Valentine's day around the corner, what are non-commercialized gifts or

00:18:31.040 special things that you've done for your wife? What has worked well or been appreciated?

00:18:39.540 Non-commercialized. I'm assuming that's just experience. That's really all it can be.

00:18:44.140 Yeah. Well, even that is commercialized, right? Where do you go to get flowers? You buy them at the

00:18:47.960 grocery store. Yeah. So I can't help but think, what are you asking outside of presents? Yeah.

00:18:53.500 Yeah. That's what I would think. That's, I think so too.

00:18:57.500 Yeah. A couple of things come to mind, you know, maybe there's a little staycation. I know that

00:19:01.560 has some commercialized aspect because you're having to buy a hotel room or an Airbnb or whatever, but

00:19:06.900 you know, it's hard when you're, when you're married or, and, or you have children to be able

00:19:11.900 to get away for any amount of time. But if you can do a night or two getaway to somewhere special,

00:19:17.340 somewhere meaningful for you, you know, we're at the base of the national park and about 25,

00:19:22.200 30 minutes from the entrance of Zion national park. And for, for me and my girlfriend to be up

00:19:27.960 able to just like go hike and go explore, that works out pretty well for us. You've probably got

00:19:33.400 something like that, that you have in your area. Also there's things that you can do, like leaving

00:19:40.000 notes, you know, show signs of appreciation that you care about her, clever gifts. Maybe you get,

00:19:46.420 maybe things that you can do together, even if they are commercialized. So maybe that's going to get,

00:19:51.440 I don't know, massage together or going, going shooting. One thing my girlfriend and I like to

00:19:58.160 do is we go shooting. So we go out, we have a pistol course coming up this weekend that we'll

00:20:03.100 be engaged in with M42 adventures. If you go to M42 adventures.com slash pistol, by the way,

00:20:09.240 we still have a couple of spots on that. That's this weekend in Southern Utah, or we'll go out,

00:20:14.600 you know, South of town and go shooting out there. Just things together. I would think are

00:20:18.440 like non-commercialized items, but they go a long way in telling people that you love them and

00:20:22.500 appreciate them. Yeah. And there's nothing I'd add. Like when I think about Asia, I think all the

00:20:27.400 things would be handwritten notes, time together, you know, staycation, getting away, those kinds of

00:20:34.700 things. So now if I don't do them, I know better and it's documented. Yeah. Well, yeah. You want me to

00:20:42.640 delete that Kip. So that's not on record. Um, I think another thing you can do, these are things

00:20:50.520 you kind of should be doing in my mind anyways. I don't really see again, fake holiday Valentine's

00:20:57.080 day is a fake holiday. I guess they're all a fake holiday kind of in a way, but whether or not I

00:21:03.080 acknowledge it's fake or not is what determines whether or not it's fake. But, uh, yeah, you should

00:21:07.800 be doing these things anyway. So it might not be out of the realm of, you know, ordinary for you,

00:21:12.360 which actually I think would be a pretty good thing, you know? So, um, yeah, that's what I've

00:21:19.720 got. All right. Jeremy coffee. What's your go-to song when you need to get fired up?

00:21:28.160 You don't listen to music when you go to the gym. I don't listen to a lot of music. I don't. I

00:21:31.760 actually, I used to listen to podcasts when I work out and now I actually don't listen to anything,

00:21:36.940 whatever they have playing on the radio at the gym. I, I've, I like it better. I know some guys

00:21:42.280 want to go to the gym and zone out and listen to pump up music and that's cool. I have no problem

00:21:46.940 with that. But for me, I actually like to engage with the environment. That means I like to, you

00:21:53.540 know, smile and nod or talk to somebody. There was a guy next to me and I'd seen him go into the gym

00:21:58.700 for a while. And by the way, the things that I advocate guys for you to do, I'm doing myself.

00:22:03.420 So a lot of you guys are wondering, how do you make friends? And I said, go to the gym and make

00:22:06.560 friends at the gym. They're like, how do you do that? So yesterday, or I think it was last week

00:22:10.900 I was working squats. I was doing back squats and I looked over and I can't get really good depth.

00:22:18.020 I would need to work on my hip mobility. And I looked over and this guy's squatting. He's a big

00:22:23.360 guy. He's probably six, three, six, four, maybe ways. I don't know, two 30. If I had to guess,

00:22:29.080 he's a big guy and big guys aren't notorious for hip mobility and the ability to stretch and

00:22:36.280 bend and contort themselves, they can, but they're not notorious for it. And this guy was like, his

00:22:41.860 butt would hit his, his ankles when he would squat like super low. Awesome. I'm not even sure you need

00:22:47.600 to do that, but he was going that low. And so I, I'm like, dude, and I, and he took his earbuds out.

00:22:53.560 I'm like, I was just watching you like do your squats. You go so low. I struggle like getting

00:22:58.940 any debt. I can almost like not barely even get to parallel. And he's like, Oh, can I show you a

00:23:04.280 couple of things? And he showed me a few pointers and tips. It was awesome. Awesome. So I like not

00:23:10.760 having stuff in my ears because then I can actually engage with the people around me. Um, you know, so I,

00:23:18.960 and I don't need to be pumped up either. I'm at the gym, like I'm going there to work out. I don't need

00:23:22.940 something to like push me harder. That's why I'm there. I'm literally there to push as hard as I

00:23:27.860 can. That seems like enough to me, for me, not for you. That's a really boring answer to your

00:23:33.120 question. Um, but obviously, you know, you can go back to like Thunderstruck is probably the

00:23:39.000 greatest pump up song of all time. Metallica is great for that. Uh, some guns and roses is good for

00:23:45.920 that. So I go back to the hair bands and you know, the early days and that's what I would go to if

00:23:52.880 I needed something to pump me up. Some offspring, maybe I, I like some nineties hip hop. I don't

00:23:59.000 know. It really depends. I'm, I'm not like, really like I need to get a pump up song, but

00:24:03.200 sometimes when I'm running, I'll, I'll, I'll listen to like, um, like EDM like beats.

00:24:11.520 Oh yeah. And it, I don't know, for whatever reason, I kind of zone out and it kind of gets

00:24:16.180 a rhythm going. Um, there is something about the beat of, of, of certain music like that,

00:24:21.620 but other, other music that has a, a cadence and a rhythm to it that you can almost sync

00:24:26.680 your running or your activity to. And I think there's value in that. I could definitely see

00:24:30.620 that. Yeah. Sorry, Jeremy. We're, we're kind of boring there. We're boring. Yep. Mostly

00:24:35.960 Ryan. Maybe we're not boring because we don't need to be pumped up. Maybe Jeremy's boring

00:24:39.700 because he needs to be pumped up. Yeah. Get some discipline. Mostly me. Is that what

00:24:44.580 you said? You don't need music. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's actually, that's actually probably

00:24:49.340 true. You can get some Jocko pre-workout and you won't have any problem being fired up at

00:24:54.100 the gym or wherever you need to get a pump. Jeremy, I got you a solid. I actually, I got

00:24:58.380 you a solid. Who is, who is the artist? Oh man, I should have thought about this. So I'm

00:25:05.440 not like scrolling. Who's the artist that does remix songs of like Goggins, Jocko, Rogan.

00:25:13.240 Oh, I don't know. Akira the Don. There you go, Jeremy. So look up Akira the Don. This guy takes

00:25:20.740 like podcasts, sound bites from like Jocko's good and Goggins talking shit. And he adds like a beat

00:25:28.780 to it. And so it's like inspirational slash music to work out to. So there you go.

00:25:35.440 Akira the Don. That's awesome. I'll have to check that out too. I knew I had something

00:25:39.620 for you. All right. Zach Allen. I was wondering what language you would use to explain to your

00:25:45.660 young preteen boys, 10 and 12, the importance of love. I've tried to explain to my nephew

00:25:50.960 that material things do not satisfy the soul for long. What matters is the love and appreciation

00:25:56.240 you feel for God. And in turn, he feels for you. And also that love for his brothers and

00:26:01.260 sisters and mom and stepdad. I don't think he really understood. Maybe he couldn't actually feel

00:26:07.660 how I loved, loved because he said, those are just words being lovable and showing love to others

00:26:15.380 are not just words. They are the most important things someone can learn.

00:26:20.940 Well, I, when he first asked that question or you read that question, I was going to say Spanish

00:26:25.820 because I understand Spanish about as well as I understand the language of love. So I don't

00:26:30.840 know. Yeah. Um, here's how I look at love. And I think you kind of alluded to this in the,

00:26:38.100 the end of your question there. Um, love, it can express a feeling and these are all just words.

00:26:44.880 Words are interesting to me because they're just noises that our bodies make. That's really all they are.

00:26:48.980 And we collectively have said that noise that you're making right now means this thing. Yeah. That's

00:26:55.500 all it is. It's, that's really fascinating to me for some reason. So love is, is just an expression

00:27:02.760 of the way you feel. That's one way we use to define that word. Um, I think it's fine. I love my

00:27:08.760 girlfriend. I love my kids. Um, they're important to me. I value them. All of those things are, are

00:27:14.200 elements of love. I think a more appropriate definition or framing of love is that love is a

00:27:22.960 verb. It's, it's an action word. It's what we do. And so we do things and we also don't do things

00:27:29.080 out of love. So we don't cheat on our partners because we love them. You could, you might have

00:27:36.280 that opportunity, but you don't because you love that person and you're expressing your love through

00:27:40.600 the action of not doing something or to the point earlier about gifts. You might get somebody

00:27:46.440 a gift because you love them and you want to show the appreciation and show the outward expression

00:27:52.260 of the way that you feel about that individual. Um, or here's the one that a lot of guys run into

00:27:57.880 every man on the planet, you and your wife get into a fight and you choose not to blow up or not to hit

00:28:04.340 her or not to blow up the marriage or not to run away. You choose instead to be forgiving and to try

00:28:08.720 to be patient and kind and tolerant and respectful back to her because you love her. And so you make

00:28:15.580 those concessions and you change the way you might otherwise respond to somebody yelling at you.

00:28:20.960 You know, some random stranger yelled at you the way your wife might yell at you on the street.

00:28:24.860 You'd probably punch him in the face, but you don't do that to your wife because you love her. So

00:28:29.640 for me, love is all about what we do and what we don't do. And if you do certain things,

00:28:35.500 then that means you are not loving that person as much as you could if you do the right things or

00:28:40.740 avoid the wrong things. Yeah. Well, and Zach, one thought that I would have if, if I were having

00:28:45.720 a conversation with the 10 and 12 year old is, is I would ask them what they think love is.

00:28:50.800 That's a good, yeah, great point. And let them have the context of, of relatability to how they

00:28:56.560 see the world. And then you add on to it, right? Cause I think most of us know, or at least can explain

00:29:02.940 what it feels like for them. And it might be different than your definition, right? Just

00:29:09.000 like we know that there's love languages and we, we see certain actions as, as more beneficial than

00:29:15.040 others or, or more in line with the expression of love. And so it might be a great opportunity to ask

00:29:20.840 them, what is love to you? And, and what do you think it might be for your mom and for your sister?

00:29:27.080 And how is that different? And how do we interpret things differently? And it's not wrong or right.

00:29:32.060 It's just different that we might see different actions as the expression of love as well.

00:29:38.720 Yeah. That's a really good, that is a good point. When you're talking with someone young who maybe

00:29:42.840 doesn't quite fully understand the concept is figure out where they're coming from. That makes a ton of

00:29:47.500 sense. Yeah. I wrote a, I wrote one more thing down here. Kip is love is also the way that we treat

00:29:52.820 people and things too. So you can love things, you know, for example, um, my son, he's got his,

00:29:59.220 I can't remember what year it is. I think it's 2002 or 2003, uh, Ford Ranger. He loves it.

00:30:06.240 And so he takes care of it. He washes it out. He cleans it out. He keeps it nice and tidy.

00:30:12.480 And when it's dirty, he cleans it up. He doesn't let it get dirty. And I would, I would argue that

00:30:16.700 somebody who doesn't treat their things right. Doesn't love them as much. You know, my, my youngest

00:30:21.740 son, he's eight years old. He's into Lego. And the other day he was talking to me about his cousin,

00:30:26.560 how mad he is at his cousin, who's probably nine or 10 or maybe actually younger. I think maybe six

00:30:31.220 or seven. And I'm like, why are you mad at her? And he's like, she went in my room and broke my

00:30:35.540 Legos that I made. Yeah. Well, he loves his Legos. So he's protective of them. He doesn't like people

00:30:44.020 messing with his shit because he loves it. Like I understand. I can appreciate that. You know what

00:30:48.800 I mean? And we think it's silly because it's Lego, but it's not silly. It's, it's what it is.

00:30:55.180 It's important. And he loves it. So it's the way that we treat things. And I think for a 10 and 12

00:30:59.560 year old, you know, you might, it might explain that, especially when it comes to chores. I remember

00:31:04.920 when I was in high school, I would, I would have been a freshman, sophomore around that time.

00:31:11.900 I remember before baseball season, we would always go out because we got snow where I lived in Southern

00:31:18.040 Utah, but we'd always go out before first practices, several weeks leading up to it. And we would groom

00:31:23.580 the field. We would pull as a team, we would pull weeds. We would mow, we would paint, we would bring

00:31:29.980 sand in where it needed to. Coach would get sand in his truck. We'd drive it out and pour sand and level

00:31:34.840 it out, clean the bases up. And we just made it look as pristine as possible. Fences need to be fixed,

00:31:40.280 all that kind of stuff. And nobody ever had a problem with it. You know, in, in the, in the

00:31:46.960 minute we might've been like, oh, pulling more weeds, you know, but we did it. And we did it for

00:31:51.740 the most part happily because we love the game and we love to play. And so we treat our field and our

00:31:58.740 uniforms and each other with respect. So I, I'm only saying that because I like what you said about

00:32:04.680 figuring out where they are in their lives because they might not be as sophisticated as you when it

00:32:10.880 comes to love, they might just be, Hey, I just love my truck or love wanting to play sports. Cool. We

00:32:15.920 can explain it in that context and build on that. Yeah. Rick lore. How do you rediscover the drive to

00:32:23.920 pursue success when you've had it, lost it and feel stuck? Maybe you've built something incredible,

00:32:30.900 like a winning battle plan, seen remarkable achievements transformed your body or leveled

00:32:36.800 up in business, but then riding the wave of success, you've slipped into autopilot, only finding,

00:32:42.640 finding yourself falling back. Now the fear of falling again looms so large, it keeps you from

00:32:48.900 getting back on the horse. How do you move past that fear and reclaim the determination to try again?

00:32:54.600 One thing that I've thought of, and I don't, I can't even remember why I thought this just over

00:33:00.620 the past week or so is I love projects. I think most men do. We love to work on things. We love to

00:33:08.200 tinker with things. I'm not real mechanically inclined. Um, I, I can't like build a home like

00:33:14.020 some men can. I can learn. I just haven't. And, but when I see a man who builds a home or restores

00:33:20.840 cars, I can't help, but think, man, that is pretty amazing that you can do that. And the other day,

00:33:28.300 speaking of my son's truck, he wanted to put a new exhaust that was a little louder on his truck.

00:33:32.340 So that's what I got him for Christmas. I got him a new exhaust, but we had to put it, do it together.

00:33:38.220 So we spent, I don't know, a couple hours taking the old one off, putting it, ordering the wrong

00:33:42.940 component, then having to send it back, paying twice as much for the second one, like the whole thing

00:33:49.100 that everybody goes through. And we installed it and it sounds great. It looks good. We took

00:33:53.980 it to the mechanic and he said, Hey, when you get it done, just bring it in. We'll make sure it's

00:33:56.920 done. Right. And so I said, okay. So we brought it in. I'm like, how was he's like, you guys did a

00:34:01.820 pretty good job assembling it. You just didn't get everything down tight enough. So they cranked it

00:34:05.500 all out with their hydraulic drills and all that kind of stuff and everything they had. Um, but the

00:34:10.680 point is that we got to work on a project together and when it was done, we were proud of it.

00:34:17.720 So when it comes to slipping and falling, I think Rick, the best thing that you can do

00:34:23.680 is make whatever the thing is a project, an exciting project that has always been enough

00:34:29.080 for me. When it comes to building your body and going to the gym, I look at my body as

00:34:33.440 a project. So when I go to the gym, I'm not just there to check it off a box. I'm there

00:34:39.240 to participate in a project, which is to turn my body into the machine that it can, it can

00:34:44.520 possibly be. When I'm doing this podcast, it's a project. It's something that I think

00:34:50.140 can get better. And I measure it like how many downloads and what kind of guests are we getting

00:34:53.860 on and what kind of feedback are we getting in these episodes and how does it look and

00:34:57.400 how does it feel and how's the quality? All of those are projects to me and associated

00:35:01.900 with any project you have is a challenge. And that's what I think most men want. They want

00:35:07.820 to be challenged towards something meaningful. So when, when you see a guy who walks into the

00:35:15.520 gym and he's 80 pounds overweight, I can't help but feel excited for that guy because

00:35:20.540 I know if he does the right work, what's to come and how good he's going to feel about

00:35:23.960 himself and how good he's going to look and the attention he's going to get from other people

00:35:28.500 and women. Like it's going to be an amazing, amazing thing for him when he does that. And

00:35:33.680 that challenge of having that project in front of me has always driven me and motivated to making

00:35:38.740 it better, focusing on small details. I might overlook, um, getting out of the complacency that

00:35:44.740 we might slip into when we are successful. That seems to help me the project. What is the project?

00:35:51.720 Let me ask you this, Ryan, you know, he, in his last statement or a sentence, I should say,

00:35:57.060 Rick said, how do you move past the fear and reclaim the determination to try again?

00:36:02.840 What's the fear? Like in this example, right? He's had success. He slips, falls back. And because

00:36:11.260 he've had success and he, and he fell backward, what's the fear? Well, like, I don't under,

00:36:18.240 I don't, I don't know, but here's what I would say. Uh, this is one that I've experienced, not

00:36:24.360 paralyzing, but one that I've experienced is, can I do it again? Like maybe that was, can I even,

00:36:31.700 yeah, right. Can I even, man, I did it once. I got lucky. I don't, I don't know if I could even do

00:36:36.760 that again. I've heard a lot of men say, and I've felt that in some ways. Can I do it? Can I repeat

00:36:41.260 it? Uh, so, so that's one, um, there actually is, could have potentially been some fallout too.

00:36:47.920 I don't know all of Rick's story. I know a little bit about what he shared with me, but there could

00:36:51.300 potentially be fallout from a failure as well. You know, when you, when you do something big and you

00:36:57.840 start gaining a lot of attention and recognition and acknowledgement, and then you slip and fall

00:37:02.180 or slip into complacency or fall back out of obscurity, you know, you could lose friendships.

00:37:07.240 You could be blasted socially. Like there's a lot of, a lot of risk that is associated with

00:37:13.440 climbing to the top and then falling. Everybody's pointing at you, mocking you. They revel in your

00:37:18.960 failures. It's actually pretty rough. It's easier in a lot of ways, in a lot of ways, not all the ways,

00:37:24.340 it's easier in a lot of ways to be a loser. That's why there are so many of us hide. Yeah.

00:37:28.480 Less attention. Right. Right. But when you put yourself out there and you do something big,

00:37:33.420 people are going to take notice, which is what you want, but it comes with a price that they're

00:37:38.540 also going to try to poke at you. Yeah. And, and so there could be a deep fear of, man, I messed this

00:37:44.920 up last time. And well, here's one in business. Let's say you grow a business to a nine, a nine figure

00:37:50.500 revenue business. How many employees you have? 150, 100, 200, I don't know, whatever. Let's say

00:37:56.360 you have 50 employees. And then all of a sudden the business goes belly up because you were complacent

00:38:01.200 or something beyond your control. Well, you're fine. You can rebuild something, but now 50 people

00:38:07.020 have to go home and tell their families, Hey, dad's out of a job. And that's heavy for that father,

00:38:15.760 but it's also heavy for the guy who supplied the job for him. Yeah. And so that would be a fear of

00:38:20.840 mine. Like now I don't have to just take care of myself. I'm responsible in a lot of ways to take

00:38:25.240 care of all these other people. So I think there's a lot that could be at play here. Totally. Well,

00:38:30.440 and I think, you know, so in the spirit of your response, and I'm still in this from your playbook,

00:38:36.280 hopefully I'm accurate in saying this is what's the focus if we're making assumptions, right? But if the

00:38:44.600 fear is that what's the focus, a lot of it is Rick, right? Or ourselves, what people think,

00:38:52.060 how do I, whatever. And, and I do feel like there might be a consideration on your part, Rick,

00:38:59.200 of making this your success more than just you. And, and now the, the stakes start becoming a little

00:39:11.020 bit more clear and a little bit more critical that you actually do something again. Because if you

00:39:16.780 don't rise up, if you don't drive forward, if you don't level up, then there's negative repercussions

00:39:23.840 for that, for you playing small. And, and what opportunity do you have as an individual to make

00:39:31.320 a difference in people's lives, whether it's your family or people that you work with, or even

00:39:36.220 potential clients. So maybe a thought process here is the mindset of, okay, great. Don't

00:39:45.340 act on your fear. Don't do nothing. Then play small. What's the cost to that?

00:39:52.520 And, and I would guess it's a lot bigger than you not leveling up and going for it again.

00:39:58.840 I'm, I mean, I'm glad you said that. Cause when I, when you were talking before you got

00:40:05.660 to that point, I wrote down here, you said, um, what's the focus? I wrote, wrote down this

00:40:11.000 question. What's the alternative? Like exact, almost, I was going to say almost the way you

00:40:17.900 said it. It's like, okay, Rick, like, look, here's the, here's the thing I don't understand

00:40:23.320 about our conception or understanding of fear. We've made it out to be such a bad thing in

00:40:34.580 society. It's like a swear word. And we do so much that we say, oh, you shouldn't hide

00:40:40.200 from fear. Like all these things, like here's one false evidence appearing real. No, I was

00:40:45.500 going to swear. I'm not going to. No, that's a real thing. Having 50 employees and not being

00:40:52.460 able to pay them one day and not pay them the next is a real thing. That's a valid

00:40:57.340 thing. Yeah. That's a valid fear. That's not false evidence appearing real. That's

00:41:02.500 fucking with somebody's life. So I, there I go. I just swore I couldn't, couldn't handle

00:41:08.680 it. I couldn't resist, but I don't like when we say you don't, the only fear is fear

00:41:14.720 itself. No, there's real things that you need to be afraid of. Not to the point where it

00:41:20.880 needs to cripple you, but we need to start collectively as a society, having a healthy

00:41:25.820 perspective of fear, which is that exists. It's real. There's real threats and there's

00:41:33.160 real risk to our ourselves, our livelihood to other people. There's real things happening.

00:41:40.580 We don't need to make it into a bigger monster than it is. We don't need to react or respond

00:41:46.320 negatively or unrealistically or unhealthy to it, but it does exist. And I learned something

00:41:52.500 from Tim Ferriss years and years ago. And he suggested that you play out your worst possible

00:41:58.860 fear. You just play it out because a lot of fear is just uncertainty. I'm not saying it's

00:42:05.100 not real. It's real, but it's uncertainty about what might happen. Play it out. What might happen

00:42:10.960 if you start another business and it doesn't do well? What happens if you have a few employees

00:42:16.780 and you can no longer pay them? And also the beauty of fear is it's not really there to keep

00:42:23.260 you from doing something. In some cases it is, as it is, you know, if there's a grizzly bear

00:42:27.600 a hundred yards and you're like, Oh, I'm afraid of that. Then I wouldn't say just approach

00:42:31.640 cautiously. I would tug tail and run personally. So that fear served me and that I can get myself

00:42:37.980 out of the environment. But we have a hard time as human beings differentiating between the grizzly

00:42:43.140 bear that's a hundred yards in front of us and somebody laughing at us on social media because

00:42:48.320 we failed. So instead of running from it and saying, I wish I wasn't afraid, just acknowledge

00:42:55.760 that I am afraid. And here's the 10 reasons I am. And here's the 10 things I'm going to do to

00:43:00.560 overcome it anyways, because the alternative to your point is to be a loser. And Rick, you're not a

00:43:06.780 loser. Clearly. I know how successful you are. I know the results that you've produced in your life

00:43:12.540 with your gyms and your business. I know what they are. So you can't sit back. And when that fear

00:43:19.420 creeps in and you're worried, ask yourself, it's either go forward or go backwards. There's no other

00:43:25.440 choice that I have here. And I'm sure Rick will always choose forward. Yeah. Justin Van Zahn,

00:43:32.780 how much does career and status play into a relationship? I'm in a stable job entering a

00:43:38.420 second part-time job that gives me more career opportunities. And I'm working on an entrepreneurial

00:43:42.740 future. My girlfriend is currently living on savings, has difficult finding a job due to her

00:43:48.660 passport and is about to start studying this year. I care about her and I want to build a

00:43:53.540 relationship with her. But I also see the choosing the different partner means a life where I could

00:43:58.400 potentially go further. Wondering about your thoughts here and some practical advice.

00:44:05.920 I am going to share a quote that I posted on Twitter. If I can find it here, I just want to

00:44:17.700 make sure I get it right. Okay. Here's what I wrote. This is going to make people mad,

00:44:20.280 but this is what I wrote. It's funny. Here it is. A woman's worth is measured in vitality.

00:44:29.820 A man's worth is measured in capability. This is why in most relationships with age gaps,

00:44:36.960 an older man is with a younger woman. Youth equals vitality. Age equals capability.

00:44:44.000 So people aren't necessarily going to like that, but that's true. It is unequivocally true.

00:44:51.580 So you could not like it, but it is what it is. Now, the reason I bring that up is what did I just

00:44:56.180 say? I said, capability is how man's worth is measured. So when a woman is choosing a man,

00:45:03.440 even if he's a snot nosed 18 year old punk, she's looking for potential. Potential. Yeah.

00:45:09.980 Um, potential, what potential capability, the potential to take care of her, the potential

00:45:16.260 to provide for a family, the potential to keep her safe and protected. That's what she's looking

00:45:21.100 for. And men are looking for vitality, which is why we're so attracted to beauty and femininity

00:45:27.020 and softness and kindness and compassion and empathy, because all of those things, uh, even,

00:45:33.920 even her body, is it healthy? Does she take care of herself? Because we're attracted to vitality.

00:45:40.560 We want to know that she can have our children, that she can raise our children, that she can

00:45:44.880 nurture them, that she can turn the products and the resources that we bring in through our

00:45:49.340 capabilities into something beautiful, lovely, and useful. We want to know she can do that.

00:45:54.920 If she can't do that, that's not someone we're going to be real interested in. And if you can't do

00:45:59.500 that, you're not going to be something she's real interested in. So I would love to give you a

00:46:04.040 different answer and say, Oh, career and status doesn't mean anything, but it does.

00:46:08.900 Of course it matters. The better career you have, the more potential you have, the more access to

00:46:15.420 resources you have, and the better status you have, the more opportunities, the more connections,

00:46:20.680 the more resources, and the more money you typically have. It's simple. It really is. So guys, you got to

00:46:27.600 be a high status, high worth, highly producing man. If you want to attract people in your life and

00:46:32.660 ladies, we love loveliness. We love beauty. It's not anything to be ashamed of or run from or

00:46:38.880 feel like you're less than it's what we value. We love that about you and there's nothing wrong with

00:46:44.540 it. So it sounds like Justin's question though, is her not having higher capability from a career

00:46:54.440 perspective? You know what I mean? Versus he's not even celebrating. Well, I don't think he's

00:47:01.000 celebrating her vitality. Right. I think his question is like, you know, she's not bringing

00:47:06.240 in, uh, more capability to the table from a career perspective. And if he went with, uh, you know,

00:47:13.200 a better earning further down their career woman, you know, that he could potentially go further.

00:47:19.520 Good luck. Yeah. What you, I don't, I don't, I don't understand wanting that. I'm not saying it

00:47:26.180 doesn't exist. I know there's quote unquote power couples out there. I, I just haven't seen that be

00:47:31.340 real successful and it wouldn't be real successful for me because I'm not interested in this woman

00:47:36.080 who's doing what I'm doing. That's not, I don't need that. I can take care of that stuff. If you want

00:47:42.660 that, that's fine. But what I'm going to tell you is you're not going to have kids. You're not going to

00:47:47.860 start a family. And the only way that's going to happen is if she lets go of her career to some

00:47:52.720 degree and decides that she wants to focus on a family. And if you're thinking, Hey, I don't

00:47:57.220 really want kids. I don't really want a family. I just want to be with this woman. I want to make

00:48:00.500 a lot of money. She wants to make a lot of money. And maybe you might even miss a lot of intimacy

00:48:05.840 between feminine and masculine energies, uh, because she's got maybe more masculine energy

00:48:12.040 if she's chasing that, that stuff. So if that's what you want, then you should find somebody like

00:48:18.700 that. Yeah. But if you're looking for a family and you're looking for beauty and loveliness and

00:48:26.140 softness and tenderness and the ability to nurture and to have children, that's not an indicator of her

00:48:33.260 ability to do that. Her ability to tear it up in the, in the boardroom. Those two are not the same set

00:48:39.680 of characteristics. Yeah. And so maybe, uh, uh, maybe a recommendation for Justin is like,

00:48:48.340 confirm that's what you want. Cause that's superficial. Yeah. Superficially you might

00:48:53.480 assume that that's what you want, but in reality you may not. And now is a really good time to do

00:48:59.300 that before you get into the relationship much further. That's, that would be something that's

00:49:03.640 crucial. Um, and also I don't know how, did he say how old he was? Uh, no, he did not.

00:49:10.300 Okay. So, you know, if he's younger, when you're young, you're, you're just so excited about life

00:49:16.820 and you're just kind of flying by the seat of your pants in a lot of ways. And it's harder to look

00:49:21.440 out in the future. But if let's say he's 23, 25, I don't know. I'm just making a guess here.

00:49:26.820 It's really hard to see yourself even at 35, but at 43, I can see myself at 53 for sure. It's just

00:49:34.740 right around the corner. Yeah. So you might say, well, I don't, I don't really want kids

00:49:40.320 now. You're 25 years old. Of course you don't want kids now, but at 35, is that something you

00:49:47.580 think you might want? Because now is a time to be ready for that. This is actually a trap that a lot

00:49:51.720 of women fall into due to the feminist movement is they're told their whole lives, Hey, go out into

00:49:58.820 the workforce, compete with men. It's hard, but you can do it. And you need to develop these

00:50:03.480 characteristics. And I've seen C level that female women, females, they are very masculine,

00:50:12.780 very masculine without exception. Yeah. The ones that are at the top of their game, C level,

00:50:17.740 I'm not even saying anything bad about them. I'm just saying that that's a dude with long hair

00:50:21.280 and a different anatomy because they are very, very masculine in their approach. And what ends

00:50:26.920 up happening because they've been sold this bill of goods is they get 10, 15, 20 years into their

00:50:32.120 career. And they look back, they're like, Oh, I kind of wanted children or I kind of wanted to start

00:50:39.080 a family. And now they don't have that option, or at least they don't have the opportunity like they

00:50:42.900 did when they were 25 years old. So be a little bit predictive in what might happen down the road

00:50:50.360 too, because that's certainly something you want to take into consideration. That little segment's

00:50:57.780 going to make people mad. Don't you think there's going to be a lot of women who don't like what I

00:51:02.880 just said? It's true though. Yeah. It's the reality. Is there anything I said about that you disagree

00:51:10.180 with? No, not at all. Actually. I, no, I don't disagree with any of that. Yeah. All right. What's

00:51:19.100 next? All right. Justin Webb, um, Justin, my apologies if I'm going to shorten up your backstory

00:51:25.300 a little bit. So, uh, Justin comes from split home, father remarried a couple of times, mom remarried

00:51:31.860 a couple of times. Now he has, he is a father of three girls divorced from their home. I feel it's

00:51:38.320 important to discuss that recognize that their sadness and their anger caused by the separation

00:51:42.720 that their mother and I created. One thing I wanted, but never felt was my parents to identify

00:51:48.860 that I was struggling mentally and emotionally. Maybe they did notice, but they never brought it

00:51:54.120 up for discussion. And it was likely that they avoided it because it was uncomfortable. Now, as a

00:51:59.760 father who failed as a husband, the first time I have these uncomfortable conversations with my three

00:52:05.580 girls, I never want them to feel the way I did as a boy, a boy lost in a storm of emotions and no,

00:52:12.520 no way to sort through them. One of my daughters is more defiant and colder than her other sisters.

00:52:18.120 It has often caused me to anger until I remember, remembered that I was the same way. And I didn't

00:52:24.960 feel heard two weeks ago. We discussed that night, that I understand the divorce has effect on her

00:52:30.940 deeper than her sisters. I identified that I see her and why she's cold and angry. It was like I

00:52:37.500 lifted the weight off her chest. I didn't fix anything, but I let her know that I do see her

00:52:42.780 and I understand her pain. My question for you both, do you have these same types of conversations

00:52:48.200 with your sons and daughters? How do they respond and how do you learn from them?

00:52:53.580 Well, I try to have these conversations as well. And I only say try because I know how difficult it

00:53:00.760 is, you know, and I know what they're going through because not only am I experiencing it

00:53:04.700 currently from a different vantage point, but also because when I was a kid, I was in a similar

00:53:09.220 situation. I had a couple of different stepdads come into my life and I never really felt for some

00:53:14.860 reason, a lot of the emotional mental anguish or maybe even didn't express it or didn't acknowledge

00:53:20.400 or understand it. I guess there was moments now that I think of it where I did feel that way.

00:53:25.720 But I don't know if I ever blamed the divorce. I don't know what I blamed it on actually.

00:53:29.020 That's interesting. I'll have to ponder on that one a little bit now that you say that. But yeah,

00:53:33.600 yeah, of course you want to have these conversations with your kids and it sounds like you're doing a

00:53:38.160 good job. One thing that I think is powerful that you said is that you're having these conversations,

00:53:44.980 plural. A lot of the times when we see problems, we just want to rush in there like men and just

00:53:49.780 like tackle it, like come hell or high water. We're going to fix it. We're going to be done

00:53:54.080 with this thing today. And you know firsthand that it can't be fixed in one conversation.

00:53:59.980 There's also personalities to take into consideration. You talked about your one

00:54:03.260 daughter being a little bit more maybe cold than your others. I don't know that I would necessarily

00:54:07.800 define her that way. I'd be very careful defining her that way because it might not be that she's

00:54:12.940 cold. She might, yeah, be cautious or she might be, um, she just might be quiet. Uh, she might be

00:54:20.600 contemplating. She, there might be a lot of good things that is actually coming across as what

00:54:25.640 you're saying is, is coldness. So be very careful because if you think she's being cold, you're going

00:54:32.000 to treat her like she's being cold. And I'm not saying you're going to be mean to her, but you're

00:54:36.440 going to like push on her and she's probably not going to like that. My second son is a lot more

00:54:42.700 internally reflective. He doesn't really express himself externally like I do. So, but I can see

00:54:51.580 when the wheels are turning and I can see when things are bothering him, but he doesn't put those

00:54:55.780 things out there on display like my older son or my daughter does. It's just their personality.

00:55:01.540 So I think you're doing a good job with the conversations. Um, I would, I would, one other

00:55:06.740 thing I'm trying to do, cause I know this about myself is I have to rein in the heaviness of the

00:55:14.280 conversations I have because my natural inclination is to get really heavy, really quick. Yeah. I'm a

00:55:20.740 serious person by nature. I want to talk about real issues. I want to get to the problem. I want to fix

00:55:24.860 it. That's can come across as bullying to people who aren't like that. So with my second son in

00:55:33.540 particular, sometimes I'll say, Hey man, do you want to go to the gas station and grab a drink?

00:55:38.440 So, yeah, sure. So we'll go grab a drink. And I don't say anything about anything difficult at all.

00:55:45.220 Nothing. Just like, Hey, what's going on at school or what's going on with your girlfriend or,

00:55:50.320 you know, what do you like in these days? Or like he's big in his basketball. He loves basketball.

00:55:54.160 I love sneakers. So I'm like, what's the coolest sneaker that's out right now? And we just talk

00:55:58.640 about stuff that has zero relevancy you would think in some of these deeper conversations,

00:56:03.440 but that's helped him open up and us, us have a better relationship. So make sure you're not

00:56:08.320 always heavy with them, that you're lightheaded, playful, lighthearted, excuse me, not lightheaded,

00:56:13.080 lighthearted, playful, and having fun with them as well. Yeah. No, the only thing I'd add is,

00:56:19.180 is I agree with everything that you said. I'd be careful. Like you said around labels as well as

00:56:28.100 suggestive that, Oh, they must be upset because of the divorce and that you creating that reality for

00:56:34.620 them. That could be the case, but it could also not be the case. And I find it fascinating that kids

00:56:42.440 will latch on to labels and identity all over the place. And so be careful what we might create for

00:56:49.780 them that may not be true. And, and so how do you then have these difficult conversations then

00:56:56.160 promote self-awareness? That's it. And I would really, and that's kind of, if I had to put like a,

00:57:04.900 a bucket around my conversations with my two oldest boys, it's really around self-awareness

00:57:12.360 and them and you know, how they feel about things and, and what do they feel about those emotions?

00:57:19.760 And what does that mean to them? Not me like, Oh, that must be from when my mom and you, my mom,

00:57:25.860 your mom and I got divorced and it could have caused like, so whoa, whoa, whoa. Like I don't add all

00:57:29.980 that meaning. They'll add enough meaning to the world. I don't want to do that. I think the

00:57:34.880 best coaching is in the space of self-awareness and self-discovery. And so like you always say,

00:57:42.880 Ryan is like, have a conversation. How do they feel? What do they think? That's, that's really

00:57:48.660 what we should all be promoting because it's, it's their interpretation. Ultimately that matters

00:57:52.920 anyway, not ours. Yeah. Well, and I, I also think, and I'm, I'm trying to learn this more and see this

00:57:58.820 more. I mean, our job is as parents certainly is to guide and steer and direct our children, of course.

00:58:03.160 Yeah. And there's moments where you need to do that, but I'm beginning to think, and I don't

00:58:06.960 know what the rule or the ratio is that it's probably 20% that and 80% letting them express

00:58:12.320 themselves. Totally. But if you're anything like me, it's 80% of me telling them what to

00:58:17.900 do and why to do it and when to do it and how to do it and how to think and why this is good

00:58:20.700 and why this is bad. And 20% of them listening to them about anything that, and even when they

00:58:24.720 do talk, I'm like, Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. So I think we need to flip that.

00:58:30.280 We all probably need to flip that on its head a little bit. And, and one last thought, like

00:58:34.620 it is natural human behavior to want to be a victim. We will fight that all the time and,

00:58:43.640 and you will see our kids latch on to stuff. I mean, how many kids talk about, Oh, I got anxiety.

00:58:49.780 I have ADHD. I'm this, I'm that. We never talked about like that when we were kids.

00:58:56.580 The reason why is all these labels are floating around. So people latch onto them. Oh, let me

00:59:01.020 explain myself on this way because of this, right? It's like, trust me, your kids will latch on to

00:59:05.620 stuff. So be really careful what potential labels or excuses or paradigms of victimhood that you might

00:59:13.000 allow them to latch onto. And then they'll use it as an excuse. That's human behavior. And so be careful

00:59:19.300 that you're not promoting them coming from a split home as a reason for how they show up in the

00:59:25.660 world. That's not good either. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a, it's just some, it's just the

00:59:31.440 circumstances and we rise above the circumstances. Like it is what it is. Everybody has hardship.

00:59:36.640 Everybody has struggles and here's ours, at least part of ours. And here's how we deal with it.

00:59:40.520 Yeah. Yeah. I was going to, at first when you said, I don't think everybody naturally feels that

00:59:45.240 way to be a victim. Like, cause I started thinking about myself. I don't feel like I'm a victim,

00:59:50.060 but I've done a lot of work on ensuring I don't feel that way. But now I think you are right

00:59:54.040 naturally. And we do, we talk about the natural man quite often. Naturally we are victims. You know

00:59:59.160 what I get frustrated with is when I see people walking around with all their mental and physical

01:00:02.900 ailments and they wear it like a badge of honor. Totally. It's like, oh, I have ADHD and I have this

01:00:08.640 and bipolar disorder and this. And it's like, good God. Like, like, are you excited about,

01:00:14.940 like, you seem excited about that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but your identity should be,

01:00:20.460 I'm doing this in spite of not I'm this way. So I can't.

01:00:25.320 Yep. Yep. It's crazy. Cool. So crazy. Keep going. All right. Um, Spartan mode. We're going to hop

01:00:33.700 over to the gram really quick. What's the best advice you received from a mentor or guest on the

01:00:38.320 podcast that has changed how you approach life? What's the most important lesson you've learned

01:00:44.200 from building order of man? So pick, pick or choose the question. There's, there is so,

01:00:50.900 there are so many things that I've heard. I probably have forgotten more than I remember. I think at this

01:00:56.060 point, um, you know, a lot of the lessons, a lot of the lessons that I've learned come from people that

01:01:05.080 maybe haven't even been on the podcast, to be honest with you. Hmm. And I, and I only say that

01:01:10.880 because sometimes I get frustrated. You know, you can look at how often a podcast is viewed and

01:01:17.860 downloaded and all that. And of course the people who are the most popular are we always get the most

01:01:22.640 downloads, but they don't always have the best things to say. They're just the best at saying them.

01:01:28.700 But if you were, if you spent time like sitting down at a basketball game, well, here's an example.

01:01:37.780 I sat down at a basketball game with a friend, kind of a casual acquaintance slash friend, uh, last

01:01:43.220 week. And we've known each other. We've talked, we never really spent much time together, but I sat

01:01:48.180 down by him and we were talking through the whole game. And then the conversations we had about,

01:01:53.100 he asked me a little bit about the business cause he knows what I do. And I asked him about his goals.

01:01:56.900 And we talked, he's a, he's a, in education and he was talking about being administration, but he

01:02:02.840 doesn't like administration. So we went back to being with the kids, but he can make more money

01:02:06.300 administration. And just the conversations that we had over a basket, high school basketball game

01:02:11.720 was amazing. And, and I, I would actually just want to promote that maybe a little bit more. Like

01:02:18.380 I'm trying to bring people in here that are relevant and have great things to say and all of them do.

01:02:21.880 So I'm not trying to discount that by any means. I would just hate for somebody to overlook

01:02:25.900 talking to their grandpa about the lessons they learned during world war two or, or the, you know,

01:02:32.260 the guy at the gym that you see every day, who's jacked and shredded, like talk to him about how he

01:02:37.240 got that way. And he'll tell you all the problems he had to overcome to get there. If we just start

01:02:42.140 more conversations and publicly as men, I think, and then apply them, I think we'd be a whole lot

01:02:46.940 better off. And that actually is to his question about what's the greatest lesson that I've learned

01:02:51.980 is there's so much wisdom and knowledge out there. If you're humble enough just to listen

01:02:55.820 to it. And there's been times in this movement over the past almost 10 years now, where I have

01:03:02.700 been humble and where I've been overly prideful. And when I'm humble, everything just goes better.

01:03:09.720 I feel better. Other people are involved. The business grows. We attract more guys into what

01:03:14.300 we're doing. The problem though, part of the problem anyways, is that culture just in social media

01:03:19.260 in particular doesn't reward you for being a humble person. Some of the most braggadocious,

01:03:25.040 arrogant, loudmouths are the ones who get the most notoriety. You know, you, I could, I could list

01:03:29.640 all those people off. You'll know exactly who they are and you probably follow them because they're loud

01:03:34.880 and they're brash and they're arrogant. So I like humble people. I like, I try to be humble myself.

01:03:42.000 I like the stories that you maybe have never heard of before. Um, and I've been thinking about,

01:03:48.500 I don't want to disclose too much information, but adding a new dimension to what we're doing

01:03:53.380 with the podcast that might gear a little bit more towards that rather than just having the same

01:03:58.680 guest on, regurgitating the same information they did with the 20 other podcasts they did before me.

01:04:04.520 Like again, nothing wrong with that. All good and relevant information. If you listen to it

01:04:09.360 and it's valuable, great. But if not, or if not, even if not just recognize there's a lot more

01:04:18.100 conversations happening or should be happening outside of the world of podcasting. But I will

01:04:21.900 say one thing as I, as I saying that one interview that I did last week, uh, last year that really

01:04:27.500 stood out to me was Jefferson Fisher. If you guys don't follow him, he's very big on Instagram. I think

01:04:33.040 he's got over 5 million followers on Instagram, but he talks to people about how to communicate

01:04:37.440 in interpersonal communication. He's an attorney by, by trade, but he uses lessons learned in his

01:04:43.540 law firm and court to how to establish boundaries, how to, I saw one the other day, what to say when

01:04:51.980 someone tries to slight you in public around other people. Like he's got really, really good

01:04:57.200 information. Um, but that's Jefferson Fisher. And I learned a lot about him and I'm studying

01:05:01.500 what he shares so I can be a better communicator, not only here, but in my everyday life as well.

01:05:06.640 I love it. All right. Last question. Uh, 970 Tyler, what are some new hunting tactics that

01:05:13.900 you have learned in the recent years? Hunting tactics, new tactic. Well, I mean, new to me,

01:05:20.340 I suppose. Um, I'm always learning something about hunting, but the biggest thing for me

01:05:25.760 is I've had to learn and I'm still learning and I always will be learning how to be quiet and be

01:05:31.680 patient. That is the hardest thing to do. It is the hardest thing for me to be patient. I just have

01:05:39.660 to sit here and wait like an idiot or just to be quiet, you know, and be maybe even not quiet. I can

01:05:46.320 be quiet to be still because being still is more about being present in the moment and realizing the

01:05:54.760 job at hand. I wondered Kip, and you've been out to Minnesota now with us, I have wondered how many

01:06:02.120 deer I have not seen that I could have shot because I'm not paying attention. Have you ever,

01:06:09.520 did you ever think that? Oh, totally. Totally. I, in fact, when you said like being quiet or whatever,

01:06:15.360 mine's like, it's actually not being quiet. It's staying present. Yes. Same thing.

01:06:21.400 Staying present while looking. Yeah. Is the most difficult thing. Yeah. Yeah. So we're on the same

01:06:26.660 page with that. You can be quiet. Like who are you going to talk to anyways? Like you can, that's

01:06:30.320 easy. I could just sit here still and being present. Yeah. And, and like, but I still, I thought,

01:06:34.980 right. Right. I thought that like, I've been out there for, I think seven years now. And there have

01:06:41.340 been probably so many deer that have walked right under my stand, right by me, you know, 30 yards

01:06:48.720 broadside on 170 inch, you know, white tail buck that I just didn't see or whatever. Cause I wasn't

01:06:55.200 present in available or I was on my phone texting you guys or like whatever I was doing. So I, I don't

01:07:01.880 know if I've learned that, but in the spirit of your question, that's what I need to learn. That's

01:07:07.240 what I need to focus on. I mean, the tactics are the tactics, you know, like how to stock in, how to get

01:07:12.600 downwind, um, obviously scent I'm realizing how big scent is. I never really put much of an emphasis

01:07:19.020 on that, but scent is huge. So playing to the wind, knocking down your scent. I actually think scent is

01:07:25.720 more important than what you're wearing because of the way that the animal's eyes work. Like our

01:07:30.320 grandfathers wore denim jeans and bright red flannel jackets and they shot more deer than we've seen in

01:07:36.960 our entire life. So I don't think it's always like, this is the best camo because you know,

01:07:44.280 whatever. I mean, sure we can update with technology, but I think if anything, focus on the scent.

01:07:50.860 I have one letting go of how I think it's going to, how, what shot is going to be available to me.

01:07:59.780 Like I have a tendency to sit in my, sit in my blind or whatever. And I go, okay, here's my lanes

01:08:05.100 and they're going to come this way. Like says who, but I, for whatever reason, I've decided

01:08:11.520 that they're going to come from a particular way. And this is how it's going to go.

01:08:16.540 And if it doesn't go that way, all of a sudden, right to your point, I'm not looking over to my

01:08:21.020 left and all of a sudden I'm not ready. I didn't even practice that shot. I don't even have the right

01:08:24.960 angle and now I'm not ready. So I think the, I don't know, like the openness or letting go of the

01:08:32.480 expectation of how it's going to go and, and just be more fluent with what presents itself

01:08:40.620 is probably like maybe the biggest lesson for me right now. I think.

01:08:44.920 Yeah, no, it's, that's good. That's interesting. There's a lot to be learned. It's never ending

01:08:49.940 learning cycle for sure.

01:08:51.940 Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, there's other ways of learning and, uh, and one of those ways

01:08:57.580 in the iron council, and I, I give you credit for this. I've never heard of this term. It's a

01:09:01.700 military term from the army, right? Uh, AAR. Uh, I think most military units use a version of the

01:09:08.580 AAR after action review. Got it. Got it. And, and so it's been pivotal to me in my life as,

01:09:15.680 as we do AARs around, I mean, even when we do events, we do AARs, we do AARs around our battle

01:09:22.220 plans of, you know, what worked, what didn't work, what pivots so much that even where I work today as

01:09:28.380 an executive, we have an instigated process that's at the center of our learning, uh, as

01:09:34.900 for us to be like a learning organization is what we call retros. We do retros and everything. What

01:09:41.140 do you know? Same exact questions that I've learned from you over the years around AARs.

01:09:46.540 And you have a website. Do you want to talk through that and what's available and, and what people can

01:09:51.460 get out of that? Yeah. A lot of men have asked, how do you reflect on anything, whether it's the

01:09:56.860 year or reflect on a conversation that you had or how you performed at work or, you know, how you

01:10:03.420 cook dinner. I don't know anything, you know, always looking for that feedback is crucial. And so we put

01:10:07.860 together a resource it's at order of man.com slash AAR as an after action review. So order of man.com

01:10:15.000 slash AAR. And, uh, if you just drop your email in there, we'll send you the AAR that we've put

01:10:20.920 together for a year end AAR. And it'll allow you to reflect on, uh, what you accomplished throughout

01:10:26.820 the year, what you didn't accomplish memories, uh, little, um, prompts so that can trigger memories

01:10:32.680 to help you think about what went well and what didn't, and also start thinking about what you want

01:10:37.620 to do moving forward. And then there's another link in there on that after action that will direct

01:10:43.180 you to a resource that will allow you to take that information that you've gleaned in retrospect,

01:10:47.980 right? The retros and apply that now today, moving forward. So, and those tools are all free. We just

01:10:54.160 want to make those tools available to you. So again, if you go to order of man.com slash AAR,

01:10:58.980 you can pick up that resource. It'll be delivered to your inbox and you can start thinking about

01:11:03.080 what you did well and what you want to do better as we roll into the rest of 2025.

01:11:07.380 Excellent. And as always, you guys can follow Mr. Mickler on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler

01:11:15.060 and join us on Facebook at facebook.com slash group slash order of man.

01:11:20.280 All right. Thank you guys. Appreciate the questions. Kip, appreciate you as always way

01:11:23.860 better when you're here. You weren't last week and it always goes better when maybe you just

01:11:27.380 take some of the pressure off, right? And I just enjoy the conversation. So appreciate you,

01:11:33.560 man. Thanks guys. We'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action,

01:11:37.280 and become the man you are meant to be.

01:11:44.900 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:11:49.520 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:11:55.040 Thank you.

Order of Man - January 22, 2025

You Are Your Own Boss, What Men Value in Women, and Fighting Against Victimhood ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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