You Keep What You Defend, Boundaries for Work-Life Balance, and Getting Out of Your Box ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
In this episode, we sit down with the Founder of The Foundry, Kip, and talk about the importance of having other men in your corner, and how important it is to have a support network around you.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart
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your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who
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you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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you can call yourself a man. Kip, what's up, man? Great to see you. I know we had a long weekend
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together, but it's always good to see you, even though I spent the last 72 hours or so with you.
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Yeah, it's a little weird to hop on the podcast when literally I did see you just yesterday.
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Yeah, we should have. I was going to say we should have done it when we were in person,
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but man, we were so busy with what was going on with the event and everything. It wasn't possible
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to do that. You have a talent in making these events feel like they're a month.
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No, it's just there's so much happening that when you walk away, you're like,
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whoa, man, we've only been here for three days. It's like, I thought we were here for like two
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weeks. So, action-packed, a lot going on. Intentional, right?
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Yeah. No, I think the men and the sons had a great time. So, it's really cool. Hey, I did want
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to mention really quickly, the Iron Council is open for this week only, and then we close it out.
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Look, I've had a lot of conversations over the past several months with guys who might be struggling
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with addiction or relationship issues or business issues or depression, so many different things.
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And obviously, just having other men in your corner who get it, right? Who have been through what you're
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going through, who have come out the other side, who have empathy and even compassion for what you're
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going through, but can share it in a masculine way, which you probably really won't get anywhere else
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unless you cultivate that. It's so crucial to have guys in your corner. And that's what we find through
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our events. That's what we find in the Iron Council. I mean, the guys that are banding together,
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talking with each other, connecting face-to-face, doing challenging things. They've got assignments
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that keep them on track for focused learning and growth. It's an incredible thing. Obviously,
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I'm a bit biased, but I'm a big recipient of what we do there too.
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Yeah. And we even have this conversation internally in the Iron Council. What we're doing there should
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never be in conflict with what's important in your life. So, if you're dealing with something in
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particular, make that the focus and use the framework of the Iron Council, the battle plans
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and the battle teams to support the stuff that you're dealing with or what you're about.
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They should never be in conflict. We're all about focusing on what's most important.
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And that requires, sometimes it requires pivoting. Guys may start a quarter kind of focused one way
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and life shifts on them and they need to pivot appropriately so they can be addressing the top
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issues. So, you should never be in conflict. Yeah. Not in conflict, but it's complimentary to
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what it's just going to help you be better in other facets of your life. So, you want to get
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your fitness locked in? Great. Join the fitness channel and nutrition channel and you get all
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that locked in. You want to dial in your relationship? Great. Relationship channels,
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communication channels, so many different things we're talking about in there. So, check it out.
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Order of Man.com slash Iron Council. Order of Man.com slash Iron Council. Just a couple more days.
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Yep. And to be very clear, you said it'll close. So, that's for the rest of the year. So,
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it's going to be open for this week and then close for the rest of the year and won't open back up
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until right before the new year. So, just kind of keep that in mind.
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Excellent. So, we're going to get questions from the Foundry, really from the Iron Council.
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So, we have a handful of questions and we'll go ahead and dive into those. Anything else,
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Yeah. Let me just explain what the Foundry is because we've said that before. Guys might not
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It's cool. You know, you're all familiar with the Facebook group and Facebook groups in general.
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The problem with Facebook, let me start with the positives. The positive Facebook group is that
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you can have a focused discussion around a topic like being better men or fitness or shooting or
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whatever your thing is. The problem is kind of like the wild, wild west. And you have some really
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good advice and you have some really crappy advice. You have some guys with good intentions. You have
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some guys probably with bad intentions or at least not qualified to give feedback or offer feedback.
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Some real jerks happen to be in groups. It just happens because it's an open public forum.
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So, it just happens. The Foundry is similar to social media platforms in that we can have those
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focused discussions. We have a timeline that people or a feed, whatever you want to call it,
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that you can go in and curate to a degree, talk about what topics are interesting to you,
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join different channels, join a battle team. The difference is everybody has a vested interest
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in being there. And primarily, they're paying to be there. So, it's not the wild, wild west. It's
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men who've actually paid to invest in themselves and to invest in other people. So, that little
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barrier alone significantly increases the quality of the conversations that we're having. Plus,
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there's frameworks that we teach like asking better questions, using the plans and the tools and
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the systems that we have in place that allow for deeper, more meaningful conversation rather than
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just this nonsense that we see so often spouted on Facebook and other social media platforms.
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So, the Foundry is in a way a social media platform, but it's a closed platform only available
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John Danik, what are your thoughts on the current FBI raids on conservative and Christian men?
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I don't... Look, I don't know. I mean, I hear that in the news and I see articles about it and
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obviously... Well, here's what I'll say. I just don't know enough about it. I don't know if there's
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legitimate reasons. I know that faith in government institutions, including our law enforcement
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institutions, are at an all-time low. And I think there's some very legitimate reasons for that.
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I had a visit from the FBI myself and they didn't raid my place. There was nothing
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to raid us about, but the fact that they came and knocked on my door says something about what's
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going on considering we've never done anything illegal or questionable. So, I don't know what's
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happening. I mean, I think I know what's happening, but I'm just not qualified enough to give that
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advice. But if the FBI is in fact targeting Christian conservative organizations and groups,
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yeah, that's highly problematic to put it mildly. So, let's make sure that we get to the polling
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plate or not the voting booths and vote and run for office and get involved in your communities
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so that we can start making some of these changes that need to be made. But I don't know enough about
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the specific conversations or topics or instances you're talking about to be intelligent enough to
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give you an informed answer on that one. Dustin Mayberry, how do you know when you should leave a
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steady paycheck for your own business? I am a trade show designer for a Fortune 500 company. I
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recently had a friend ask me to design a booth for them, which is opening a few other doors to start
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my own business, including another company's PR department asking to be a design and build their
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booth. In your opinion, do I fully jump into an independent trade show design and event market
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business before income can replace my current job? Or do I wait until there are enough hours in the
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date to do both and everything else in my battle plan before leaving the current career?
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Well, there's never going to be enough hours in the day to do both. So, what are you waiting for?
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Some time where now there's 27 hours in the day instead of 24? That's not going to happen.
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So, and to say, well, you know, I'm busy right now. It's a busy season, so it'll get easier in two
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months. That's not true either. It's just- It usually never happens that way.
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Not even usually. It just never happens. Like something else is going to fill that time.
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So, let's not wait. Let's be smart about this. Now, here's what I would say. From a logical
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perspective, you could very easily make the case that you either need to have the income that would
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replace your current income. If that's happening, good to go. Or if there's a discrepancy, let's say
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you're making $10,000 a month right now and through the business, you're only making $5,000. You have
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a $5,000 discrepancy. If you have $60,000 saved aside in a bank, that's going to give you 12 months
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to grow and replace that income. That's a very logical way to look at that. And that's a very feasible
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possibility. The thing that we don't really consider is when you do spend more time on the business,
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actually that timeframe will speed up. So, if you're half and half, or let's say you're doing
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80% with your work right now and 20% with your side business, and you think it's going to take
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12 months, well, if you go to 50-50, it might only take you eight months because you're spending more
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time in that new business. So, take that into consideration. That's personally what I would
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do. I would burn the candle at both ends, not waiting for time to open up miraculously, but carve out
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time in the morning, lunch breaks, be more efficient with your time at work, after work.
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Do all of the things that you need to do for the other business now while you have this income coming
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in and give yourself a deadline. Hey, by December, I'm going to be making $7,000 a month in this side
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business, or I'm going to actually transfer over in December. But give yourself a timeline and then
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start working backwards into what you need to do today. But I would say burn the candle at both ends,
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go through a season of just busting your butt so that you can make this happen sooner rather than
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later. Yeah. There's some beauty in testing out the market and even seeing if clients are willing
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to wait. That's the other thing, especially when you're an independent contractor, there's always
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this balance of like, I'm busy. Oh, I'm not busy. I'm poor. Oh, I'm busy. I'm rich. Oh, wait,
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I'm not busy. I'm poor again. Well, can you, will clients be willing to get backlogged and wait for
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you to be available next month? Is there enough work for consistency? And you can actually test out
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consistency without going full-time just by seeing if there's enough clients in the backlog that you
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can have sitting there waiting for the next time that you're available. If everything has to happen
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immediately when the client asks and you can't, and they're not willing to wait, there's some
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learning opportunities there for you to determine what you can do and what you can't do for consistency
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of cashflow as well. And I don't know what the numbers are, if it needs to be consistent or not,
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but those are kind of some of the things that you can try out in the market and in your business model
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to see how this is going to look. Because what I hear right now is I have two projects for two
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clients. Well, how long is that going to take? Two weeks? Then what? Nothing? Oh, well, maybe you're
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not ready yet, right? Like maybe you need to play with marketing and see if you can get some backlog
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and some consistency of work, even if it's part-time. Right. Yep. Cool. All right. What's next?
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All right. Joshua Horsley, Ryan, in chapter eight of sovereignty, intentionality, you wrote something
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that I found to be pretty profound, which is good job. Odd. That's why it sticks out so much is that
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it's like I actually said something profound. No, that book is great. Okay. You get to keep
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what you defend. This was referring to the excuses we make to rationalize limiting our choices and
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remaining stuck in our current situation. Like you mentioned in the chapter, this is due to living in
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a box constructed of our previous experiences. What would be some tactics we could use to expand
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or move beyond this box? If the current situation that we find ourselves in, while not ideal, but has
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put in better position than anything we have yet to experience. I'm a little lost on, on the question,
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mate. Can you, can you paraphrase that? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, I get the, obviously the concept of
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you keep what you defend. For example, if you're defending some sort of behavior, um, whether
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that's, uh, blaming people at work or, um, excessive drinking, uh, or, um, you're even, even being
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depressed is one I hear a lot. Like a lot of guys are so depressed and like, well, I'm depressed
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because of this. I'm depressed because of that. My childhood was rough and this, and like, okay,
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all of that might be true, but you're defending your depression. You're defending it. So you get
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to keep it because you're fighting so hard for it. What if instead, and then I'll get to what you
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think this means is instead of, instead of being depressed about it and all the things that it could
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be, it's like, okay, I'm going to own that. I don't want to be depressed personally. I don't want to feel
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like that. So what do I need to do? Well, I need to change behavior because there might be certain
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behavior. That's making me feel that way. I need to surround myself with different people
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because there's different people who might be making me feel that way and might be helping me
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defend some of that depression. Uh, I need to talk. That's something I need to do. There's
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attachment styles. So I have, uh, an anxious attachment style. So for me, I get very anxious
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and I even get anxiety if I don't work through my issues with other people so I can flesh it out and
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get out of my head. Okay. So that means I need good people in my corner that I can talk with that
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support me, love me, and care about me. And as I do that, I immediately feel better.
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So yeah, there might be a lot of reasons for being depressed or anxious or whatever it might be.
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And you can cling onto those if you want, or you can say, no, I don't want that. And I'm going to
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change the behavior. A lot of people do it with nutrition and they say things and we laugh at it.
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Well, I'm just big boned or, oh, it's just my genetics. Okay. Then keep it. Then keep your poor
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health. That's fine. That's your decision. Or you could say, oh no, my genetics is an issue.
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So I have to do things differently than other people.
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Yeah, totally. So I think what Josh is really saying, and Josh, let us know how I do on this.
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So really, right. We rationalize when we're in this box and what he's saying is tactics on getting out
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of that box. When in reality, the box has been helping us, right? Like the box has served us
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and maybe it's not ideal, but it's working, right?
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The box serves you. And because if it didn't serve you, you wouldn't be in the box.
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So let's take, let's take depression because a lot of you guys are dealing with it.
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Okay. So if you're depressed, how, how does that serve you?
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Like objectively, how does that serve you? Well, you know, it doesn't, but subjectively
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you might be getting some attention. Yeah. You might be blaming other people or other situations
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and not taking ownership. And, and that is serving you because you don't have to own your own
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inadequacies. Like something is happening. So the first thing to do is to acknowledge and recognize
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that there is a box around you and that you constructed it. Like nobody put it around you.
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You constructed it, which is really hard in the moment guys, because we see this box around us
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and we think I can't get out of it. But we, what we don't realize it's just, it's like cardboard
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walls. They look like concrete walls, but they're just cardboard walls. It's that old, that, that,
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that meme or whatever, where they put a, they take a young elephant and they stake it in the ground.
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And as the elephant gets big and it can't pull itself out of the stake because it's too small.
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And as the elephant gets bigger and bigger and bigger, it could easily pull that stake out of
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the ground and go wherever it wants. But it doesn't because it's been conditioned to believe
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that that stake is going to keep them exactly where they are. Yeah. A limiting belief.
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That's what it is. It's a limiting belief. And so how do you get out of it? You start looking
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outside of the box and it might just be peeking your head up over the walls and saying,
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what's going on over there? Like what, what's Kip doing? Hey, that guy, that guy over there
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looks fulfilled. Like he looks like he's good in his family life or he looks fit or he looks fulfilled
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or he's running a business. Like what's up with that guy? And just take a peek over the wall.
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And maybe the next day you can start building a ladder. You're like, okay, well, let me build a
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ladder. Maybe I can't tear the wall down, but I could just go outside for a little bit and walk over
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this wall and see what's there. And what might the ladder look like? Going to a conference,
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reaching out to a friend, purchasing a course on something you're interested in,
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getting up and getting moving for the day, changing and disrupting the patterns of what
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you currently live in. That's building the ladder. That's going to get you over the wall.
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And before you realize it, like you're just not going to come back. You know, maybe you go over
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the wall for a little bit and you feel really good and you're like, but I'm kind of uncomfortable.
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And so you go back in the box and then the next day you're like, oh yeah, I want to get out. So
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you go, what happens is you stay out longer and longer and longer and longer and you never come
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back, but it takes time doing things that are different than what you currently are doing.
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You have to disrupt the patterns. Totally. If we, if we took a box and we said, that's your story.
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What's really interesting is we are great at winning. You're doing exactly like you're,
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you're doing awesome with whatever box you've created, man, you're awesome at it, right? If you
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are a victim, man, you are awesome victim. You're so good at blaming other individuals. You have the
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stories to back it, the evidence you've colluded with everybody in their life. You have alignment.
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I mean, we are great at what we create. I think the big question then is, well, what's the tactic
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or why would I want to get out of the box? Well, what's possible then? What's, what's so much
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greater than what you have today? And is it worth it? And if it's worth it, then take the action. I mean,
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we're all winning in the, in the, in what we've created. We're really good at it. So the question
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is, do you want more? I think you have to ask, you have to start getting honest with your current
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situation too. Cause sometimes when we're in that box, it just feels like, well, this is all there
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is, right? This is it. This is life. This is my life. Yeah. And it is today. Yeah. But it doesn't
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have to be tomorrow. You just have to do something different. And that's hard, man. That's really
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hard. Cause you're going to have to let go of some things that you like, like you like playing the
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victim. You like the pity party. You like, you like the steady paycheck. There's one going off of our
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last question. You like the steady paycheck. So why would you leave that for the unsteady paycheck?
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For, I don't know. Potential unknown. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why you would,
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you have to determine that for yourself. I mean, the cool thing about the box is the box
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is always there. So you can always come back if you want. Totally. You can always come back.
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I had this exercise once, you know, and we talked about it actually over this weekend. I shared
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something with you that it's, it's interesting. We have these sob stories. We all have them. You can
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grab your piece of paper and write all the, like the, the stories that you tell people every so often.
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It's, it's what you've used to identify yourself. It might prop you up a little bit and might get
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people to feel sorry for you. You know, and one of the stories I shared with you over the weekend,
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it's like, and I literally have held onto this for 20 years, that, that poor kid, I was raised on
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this, you know, by these two parents that didn't see the value of education. I wanted to achieve
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greatness. Like part of this story. How's this? Are you ready? I'm the, I'm two of, I'm two of nine
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kids that actually graduated high school. So that's the story. I hold onto that, right? You hear that
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Ryan, you're like, oh man, good job, Kip for rising above, man. Jeez. You know, he's so impressive.
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And then I can go, oh, and I'm the only one that graduated from college. Oh, see, I get some more,
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you know, like I've, I've literally latched onto the story to help define my, my greatness, right?
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To prop up my ego. And then I throw in this idea that my dad was completely unsupportive
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to me going to college, that he fought against it. He wouldn't even sign my paperwork. Well, don't go.
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And I demonized that man for 20 years for not supporting me, for not quote unquote,
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loving me enough to support me to go to college. And we had this conversation over the weekend,
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you know, and I, I had this realization. I don't even remember what triggered it. I was like driving
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and I thought, and I was actually, I was listening to a song. There's this song that, oh, what's it
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called? The S Lazy H. It's like this song about this, this guy's dad dies and he loses the family
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ranch. Right. And my sister, she's like, oh, whenever I hear this song, I think of dad, I think
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about the farm because right now our familyhood farm is going onto the market. So there's this
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legacy being sold to some extent. Right. And so it's been on my mind a lot. And, um, yeah, I've
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been, I've been listening to that song a little bit and I thought, wait a second, did my dad
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not want me to go to college because he didn't love me? Or did he not want me to go to college
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because he wanted to pass that on to me? Cause he did say that Kip, you don't need to go to
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college. Why don't you stay here on the farm? Help me work the farm. You can go to a local
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trade school and still stay here. And I thought, and I, my perception of that whole thing was
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damn you bastard. You don't give a shit. You know what I mean? You don't care about my dreams
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as an older man. Now I'm like, oh shit. He probably just was hell marrying. Like this
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is my last boy at home. This is my last kid. I have this legacy and he was probably trying
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everything that he had available to him to keep me around. Yeah. I should have been flattered,
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but instead I demonized him and I've held onto that box and that story to justify all kinds of stuff
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for like 20 years. You know, we have our sob stories, maybe sit down and just think through
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what they are and see how unrealistic and how much of them are just perception and not truth.
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One, thank you for sharing that Kip. Cause that was powerful when you shared it with me
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is context, right? Context. Think about how often, uh, people have misunderstood you.
00:23:51.760
Right. Like you, you've, yeah, you've done something or said something and people completely
00:23:58.640
misconstrued or they take it out of context or they blow it out of proportion. Well, you do that
00:24:03.180
too. I do that too. So somebody says something or does something and we interpret it away just like
00:24:09.320
you did with your father and had nothing to do with that potentially. And so we're all just making
00:24:14.520
up stories. So if we're going to make up a story, why don't we make up a story that actually serves
00:24:18.460
us rather than hinders us because neither are probably true. The one you make up or the one
00:24:23.780
that you bought into there, they're neat. Neither of them probably entirely true, but it's just
00:24:28.060
context. It could be a thousand different things and you have no idea what it is. Cause you're not
00:24:31.780
a mind reader and we're all not as smart as we think we are. Yeah. And, and usually the, like the more
00:24:38.220
beneficial perspective that you can have, it's interesting how that one usually has empathy
00:24:47.460
and less judgment towards others. Yeah. Ironic how that is. Right. Yeah. Interesting. Cool. What's
00:24:55.300
next? Serves you and them. And them. Chad Perrin. Hey guys, curious how you would handle this. I have
00:25:01.180
two boys. One is four, one is five. Mom and dad are separated and he has them on the weekends. I don't
00:25:07.560
know if it's because they're having a difficulty with time and the separation, but they used to be
00:25:12.440
much braver. They are now afraid to do things that they weren't afraid of before going down tall slides,
00:25:18.880
going on swings, playing with other kids on the playground, going to the swimming pool. Like I
00:25:24.300
said, they used to do these things with no problem. I tell them, I believe in them, that they are brave
00:25:29.160
and strong. I do these things in front of them so they can see me do them and show them how fun things
00:25:35.080
are. Not sure if it's just a phase I need to wait out or if there's a better way to help them
00:25:40.460
overcome their fears. Any advice is greatly appreciated. So he's separated from his wife
00:25:46.360
and they have kids that are four and five and he has them on the weekends. Might be related,
00:25:51.320
may not be related, but the key thing is, is like all of a sudden they seem fearful to try things
00:25:56.740
and he's trying to, you know, looking for advice of how to overcome those fears. I mean,
00:26:02.680
that's the thing. It could be so many different things. It could be their age that they're at.
00:26:06.180
It could be less of your influence in their lives now. So that might change things. It could be a
00:26:12.820
blow to their self-esteem that you and your wife aren't together and they're not seeing you and
00:26:17.980
they're not seeing her as often. Less confidence in themselves.
00:26:20.560
Right. I mean, that's the hard part is it could be so many different things and really all we can do
00:26:27.680
is control the controllables, which is how you show up. So I would, if I were in your situation
00:26:34.200
is I would continue to do what you're doing by showing them it can be fun, encouraging and
00:26:39.600
fostering, taking healthy risk and trying new things and putting themselves out there.
00:26:44.560
And then also putting them environments where they can do that, because maybe that's the other thing.
00:26:49.740
The, their exposure to those types of environments have, has possibly changed. I don't know,
00:26:54.460
but if it's changed now, they're not getting as much practice doing that. So there's like so many
00:26:59.160
different things. So keep doing what you're doing, I would say. And I would also communicate with
00:27:04.880
your, your wife or your ex-wife and express to her, maybe you already have expressed to her
00:27:10.000
what you're expressing to us, because maybe she notices it too. And maybe she's wondering the same
00:27:15.600
thing. Think, think about context. Like how many guys would immediately rush and jump to the
00:27:20.380
conclusion that she's poisoning them against me. And she's keeping them sheltered in the house to
00:27:25.580
use them as an emotional crutch, like all these things that we could potentially say.
00:27:30.000
Yeah. Or maybe she has the same fears about your guys' children as you do. And is there an
00:27:36.640
opportunity for you outside of your relationship to be able to work together in a meaningful capacity to
00:27:42.580
serve what are still both of your children? And so there might be opportunities there. You can't
00:27:48.920
really talk too much with the kids about what they're feeling. I mean, they're four and they're
00:27:52.080
five years old. How much could they possibly articulate? But I think you're doing a good
00:27:56.180
job by acknowledging it. I think based on what you're saying, it sounds like you're doing a good
00:27:59.860
job exposing them to environments and teaching them through example. The one thing you didn't say
00:28:05.120
is how she feels about it. And maybe, you know, and maybe you don't, but if you don't know how she
00:28:09.780
feels about it, you probably ought to sit down with her and say, Hey, look, hon, I mean, I know we're
00:28:14.380
having our issues. I know whatever. But I'm actually really worried about the kids. Have
00:28:19.460
you, have you seen this? Is there something that you've noticed and what can we do in the wake of
00:28:25.320
what we're experiencing together that we could do to help our children? That's, that's what I want to
00:28:30.960
start. Yeah. And if they're not getting that grit and that opportunity to kind of do hard things,
00:28:35.680
maybe because it's limited time with you, it's like, okay, well maybe we can get the wife or ex-wife
00:28:41.380
on board to let's put them in jujitsu during the week when they're not with you or they're playing
00:28:47.600
soccer or they're playing other sports during the week when they're with mom. So then that way they're
00:28:52.360
getting that kind of that time to do difficult and hard things. Yeah. And, and one thing you can do
00:28:59.400
with that as well is let's say you have them on the weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, hypothetically.
00:29:03.640
So you don't have a Monday through Thursday. Well, maybe Wednesday there's a jujitsu class and you guys
00:29:08.480
could actually go together. So they're not with you per se, but you guys go to class. It's classes
00:29:14.140
every at six o'clock. But you're driving them and mom's going to appreciate that, right? Either
00:29:18.100
you're driving them, you know, and she gets that night or maybe you're not even driving them. Maybe
00:29:22.100
you just meet them there and you, and you guys are there together for an hour and a half. And then mom
00:29:26.140
picks them up and like, ah, that's such a hard, that's such a rough, rough position to be in.
00:29:33.220
But I think there's some creative solutions, especially if you guys are amicable and if you're not
00:29:37.340
amicable, that's something you should definitely work on. Yeah.
00:29:43.020
Work on getting her on board and communicating to get on the same page with her.
00:29:47.020
I'm hesitant to say, get her on board because it makes it sound like she's not,
00:29:51.420
or wouldn't be, it's like combative from the get-go. Like what makes us think that she wouldn't
00:29:56.040
be on board with that? I don't know your situation. So let's, let's not say get her on board because
00:30:02.060
she might already be on board. We don't know, but let's need to have the conversation. Yeah.
00:30:06.940
You need to have a conversation and you, you really need to honor her. Like as the, the mother
00:30:13.840
of your children, like there's things that you can do where you can honor her. You can appreciate her.
00:30:21.200
You can, you can show her that she's valued, that there are things that you care about,
00:30:25.860
about her. Like there's things that you can do. It's hard, hard, but it's what needs to be done.
00:30:32.680
Colin Hornback. How do you go about building a group of men around you that goes deeper than
00:30:37.660
surface level? I've been trying for months to build better relationships with men, as most of my
00:30:43.780
relationships are an inch deep and a mile wide. I want a group of guys around me that I want,
00:30:48.380
that want to improve, grow deeper together, learn together, engage in accountability. While some guys
00:30:53.460
I've talked to express interest in this, when I've reached out over the last few months for weekly
00:30:58.100
phone calls or daily texts, they just won't engage or even respond at all. I've tried to set my
00:31:04.360
expectations and be proactive and consistent over two to three months of reaching out, but I'm getting
00:31:09.440
nowhere. Should I be changing my approach, looking for a different group of guys that are willing to
00:31:14.680
commit or both? Thanks for all your feedback and thoughts. I think both you're going to have, it's,
00:31:21.980
it's like dating. You know, when, when you want to date a woman, you're going to have to date a lot
00:31:27.720
of women before you find the one who's like, Oh, you know, she's, she's on the same wavelength as me.
00:31:32.240
She's interested in the same things as me. She's wanting to go to the same place as me. We communicate
00:31:36.660
and we fit well together, but you, you might have to see a hundred women to do that, right? Or less or
00:31:43.420
more, just depending on your situation. But it's the same thing with this is the guys in your circle.
00:31:48.400
You, the other thing you have to consider is the guys in your circle you've built on a relationship
00:31:52.660
that you currently have. So it might just be around beers and barbecue. And so now you're,
00:31:58.660
now you're changing the terms of the relationship. Well, that they may not be on board. And if they're
00:32:03.480
not, that's okay. It's fine. You can still have beers and barbecue with them, but don't expect them
00:32:07.920
to go deeper. There's no expectation that they should, because they entered in the relationship with
00:32:14.520
And let's be clear, really quick. Like most guys that are just into beers and sports are
00:32:20.200
superficial and they go, Hey dude, Hey, I want to have some more in-depth conversation. So I can
00:32:24.660
become a better man. You interested? Most people will go, Oh yeah, man. Yeah, for sure.
00:32:29.640
Yeah. And then not really do anything with it. Yeah, for sure. So you're going to get the lip service
00:32:34.240
of like, Oh yeah, I'm interested. Yeah. So, so I would start, here's what I would do. I would go
00:32:42.900
where those men already are. Cause then you're going to find those, they're already interested.
00:32:49.760
You're over here trying to create this thing and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that,
00:32:54.080
but there, there might be other things that are going on in your area that that's already happening.
00:33:00.720
A great example of that is this, uh, legacy event. We just did this last weekend. I don't know if
00:33:07.480
you noticed Kip, right? As we wrapped up, there was guys, they were hanging out in the barn and
00:33:10.200
they were all getting each other's numbers, right? Because they already qualified themselves. We
00:33:14.360
already know they're interested in this stuff because they're here or the iron council is getting
00:33:19.300
to know each other. And they're like, Oh yeah, this is a solid guy. Yeah. We're on the same page
00:33:23.720
or the iron council. They joined the iron council, not for beer and barbecue,
00:33:27.360
but they joined because they wanted the framework to develop and grow and build.
00:33:31.400
And guys in the iron council have become friends and brothers that do activities just outside of
00:33:37.940
the iron council. It might be a business conference that you can attend, uh, might be an other,
00:33:43.740
some sort of other online community or community within your, maybe it's rotary or chamber of
00:33:48.560
commerce. Like those are generally people who want to go above and beyond their entrepreneurs.
00:33:52.760
They want to give back to the community. So just go insert yourself into the conversations
00:33:57.920
that are already happening. That's an easier way to do it than creating your own thing.
00:34:01.960
Um, at church, that's another way. If there's a men's group at church, join the men's group,
00:34:07.300
get involved, go to Bible study on Tuesday night. When they do a charity drive or, or some sort of
00:34:13.980
service oriented activity on, on Saturday, go to that thing, insert yourself in that environment.
00:34:19.440
Those guys are obviously interested in giving back to the community, serving, uh, uh, serving the
00:34:24.400
Lord. And if that's you, then that's a great place to go do that. Just go where those guys are.
00:34:30.380
And if you have existing relationships, there might be some context missing, right? If you,
00:34:35.520
Ryan, you came to me 20 years ago and said, Hey Kip, I want to have a deeper relationship.
00:34:40.140
I'm going to learn together and encourage each other, engage in accountability. Are you interested?
00:34:44.020
I'd be like, yeah, sure. But what you're thinking right now and what I was thinking 20 years ago,
00:34:48.060
they're not even on the same page. So if you have some existing relationships,
00:34:52.160
you don't know what you don't know. So one strategy that I've used in the past for people
00:34:56.680
that I actually like genuinely care about that I consider friends, but we're not at this,
00:35:02.240
in this space, right? I'll go grab as a man thinketh. I'll go grab sovereignty. I'll go grab
00:35:09.740
other books. And I'll say, Hey, got you this book. I'll write in the cover. Hey, really thought
00:35:14.280
this book would be valuable to you. Give it to them and say, Hey, when you're done reading,
00:35:18.560
let's talk. If they never want to talk after they read the book, then it's, yeah, I use that
00:35:25.220
as kind of like, Oh, okay. They're, this is not their game. Right. But if as a man thinker
00:35:31.120
resonates with them and like, that was eyeopening, that was awesome. And you talk about it. It's like,
00:35:36.220
okay, now we can create some momentum within a relationship. I, I already had with someone
00:35:41.300
and see if they're interested in going deeper. Well said John Silver. What if any resources do
00:35:48.340
you suggest for taking a, talking to a son about sex? I know it can be awkward and I usually just
00:35:53.740
go with a direct approach, but want to set the stage for some open communication after the talk.
00:36:00.940
I don't, I don't know if there's any resources. I mean, I, I'm sure you could jump online and all
00:36:05.560
that. You could go to the farm. That's a good resource. If you've ever, I mean, my kids know about
00:36:10.980
how babies were like goats. Yeah. That's funny. At first we were like the farm. I was like, Oh,
00:36:16.640
is that like a, like a sex ad retreat thing? Oh, but it took me a second. Yeah. Like we had,
00:36:22.680
we had a bunch of goats when my kids, some of my, a couple of my oldest kids were younger and they
00:36:26.280
saw those goats being delivered, cows being delivered. Like remember how that happened?
00:36:30.020
Yeah. Well, that's how it happens for us too. You know? So it's like, that's actually a pretty
00:36:35.360
good context. Uh, yeah. I don't know about resources. I would just, just talk to him,
00:36:42.220
just talk to him and then ask him questions and don't make it weird. If you make it weird,
00:36:47.880
then he's going to make it weird. Just, just, it's awkward to you. It's going to be awkward to him.
00:36:51.740
Yeah. And also guys, if you're not to the point where you're having this conversation yet,
00:36:56.700
then have other conversations. So they feel comfortable having conversations around you
00:37:03.220
so that when you need to have something a little bit more serious, like the birds and the bees,
00:37:07.400
then it's easier. And it shouldn't just be a talk, by the way, people say the talk, the sex talk,
00:37:13.240
birds and bees. No, it's not a talk. It's you're talking to them about something they're going to
00:37:19.940
experience. So if they see an attractive girl, for example, well, there's an opportunity for some
00:37:28.380
conversation about it. Hey, I noticed that you were, you know, looking at that, that girl or that
00:37:33.840
woman, she, you know, she pretty. Yeah. Yeah. That's she was, I acknowledge that too. As your
00:37:39.020
father, like she was very attractive and that's natural. And you can talk about why men are
00:37:43.740
attracted to women. You don't have to get into sex. You just talk about why men are attracted to
00:37:47.260
women, right? Like there's all sorts of little opportunities where you can have these conversations
00:37:53.400
and it isn't the birds and the bees. I mean, eventually you'll need to get to that point.
00:37:58.140
My six-year-old asked the other day about, you know, where babies come from. So we sat down and
00:38:02.580
talked a little bit about it, but he's six. Like, I don't need to give him an anatomy lesson.
00:38:06.580
They just talk a little bit about it, but if we make it awkward, then it's going to be awkward.
00:38:11.280
And I, and I just think, I think another part of the problem with this, this question,
00:38:15.380
and I appreciate you asking the question, but the fact that we're so concerned about it is
00:38:22.580
actually concerning to me. Like, why is this so hard? Like, why is it so uncomfortable? Why is
00:38:30.280
it so awkward? It should not be. And if you're having other conversations, this isn't even a
00:38:36.740
question that I don't think even needs to be asked. It shouldn't be a thing. Yeah. Right.
00:38:41.920
Yeah. I learned with my older kids not to tease them too. I don't know why, but I always,
00:38:47.360
that was like my natural tendency is like, Oh, you like you? Oh, you look a girl. Like I,
00:38:51.780
we don't do that like a moron. Yeah. And I don't do that now. Like when, and now like with my
00:38:57.620
daughters is like, Oh, I really like this boy. I'm like, Oh, that's great. Like what do you like
00:39:01.880
about him? And, you know, and I, and I try to connect. So she'll tell me now, like now,
00:39:07.140
now she will tell me that she likes a boy and why she likes about him. But if I teased her
00:39:11.980
from the get go, no, no way she's going to be telling me about this boy that she thinks is cute,
00:39:17.860
you know, or whatever. So that's a rule that we have in the house too. Try not to tease them
00:39:21.620
about girls and boys. We don't tease about their crushes and we don't let them tease each other
00:39:26.800
about it. Yeah. And if one of our kids says, I like this girl or I like this boy, it's like
00:39:31.740
the same thing. It's like, Oh, awesome. What, what do you like? You know? And that's a good thing.
00:39:37.540
Yeah. That's what we want. We want to encourage that behavior. We want them to like members of the
00:39:42.020
opposite sex. We want them to have, be attracted to girls and boys. Like we want that. So foster it,
00:39:49.420
but yeah, I don't think any resources, I think just talk with them to the level that you talk with them
00:39:53.140
practice talking with your kids. That's one thing you can do. And not just the birds and the bees,
00:39:58.280
but like other things, how was football? What, what was hard about it? What did you enjoy about it?
00:40:03.600
Do you like your coach? What do you like about him? What don't you like about him? Like ask open-ended
00:40:08.280
questions with your kids so that when you have to have some of these more serious conversations,
00:40:12.640
it just flows. And it's just, and it just goes, I would say asking questions is going to be a big
00:40:17.380
deal as opposed to lecturing on these types of things. And you might say, well, what do you,
00:40:21.960
what do you know about it? Like, what do you know about sex? Not, what do you know about like, no,
00:40:27.560
Hey, what do you know about sex? What do you know about where babies come from or how they're made?
00:40:31.600
Ask them. You can figure out the context first and then you can fill in blanks as needed.
00:40:35.020
Yeah. And so like my oldest son, it was so off target. Like I remember I asked him once and I was
00:40:42.900
like, Oh yeah, no. Yeah. Let's talk through this. Right. Because yeah, no idea, you know? So to your
00:40:51.800
point, ask the questions is really valuable. So, all right. Sam Broadway, have you considered
00:40:58.040
expanding order of man into any, uh, any other areas such as the order of man shooting ranges or order
00:41:04.800
man, jiu-jitsu academies or hunting classes and et cetera, or anything else along those lines?
00:41:10.760
No. Oh, I have. I totally thought like, dude, we should have like a order of man, jiu-jitsu superior
00:41:16.800
jiu-jitsu. I just figure there's so many qualified places for jiu-jitsu or shooting or cooking or
00:41:24.520
camping or hunting. So it's like, I, and the other thing is, so, you know, it's like, let them do it.
00:41:32.980
And then we can direct them wherever, wherever they need. I don't know. I've never really thought
00:41:36.240
about that. Maybe I should think more about that, but no, I've never really thought about that.
00:41:39.620
Fun idea. Nonetheless, it is for sure. All right. Jeremiah Grinrod, recent position change at work.
00:41:47.520
I am working with someone who has, who has been told when I will be moved to another position,
00:41:53.820
as soon as I am up to speed, it was clearly communicated to me that this individual was not
00:41:58.880
aware that they were going to be resigned. And I was asking to keep this to myself. I asked my
00:42:05.260
leader to communicate this immediately to the individual so I could remain in integrity while
00:42:09.720
working with them. Any advice on how to navigate the situation? I don't believe this has been
00:42:15.160
communicated yet, but my leader agreed with me and committed to doing it soon.
00:42:22.740
Yeah. Well, and I think you addressed it, right? Like, this is awkward. I'm like
00:42:28.060
getting up to speed with this person and this person's on their way out. And you're like, Hey,
00:42:32.740
chain of command a little bit. Like, Hey, you need to let them know.
00:42:35.640
Yeah. I think you're committed to communicating that then. Yeah. I think that's right.
00:42:38.980
But if you're not out of integrity for doing your job and being, and respecting your leader's
00:42:43.980
wishes by not communicating that, like, right. Like you should, that's not your job to tell them.
00:42:50.300
And it doesn't, I don't think it puts you out of integrity for working with that individual and
00:42:54.700
not telling them that they're about to lose their job. That's not your business.
00:43:01.820
Well, there might be some assumptions, Jeremiah, that you might be making around the circumstance,
00:43:08.100
right? It's like, Oh, well I'm going to come in and they're getting fired and that's messed up.
00:43:11.760
Well, hold on. Do you know what else is going on from the leader's perspective? Why they're exiting
00:43:17.640
that or offboarding that individual? Do you know if they're getting transfers? Like there's context
00:43:23.360
from your boss's perspective that you may not be aware of. Yeah. Oh, for sure.
00:43:29.100
And so don't make assumptions, go ask if you want to get informed, but don't make assumptions and make
00:43:34.540
it like an awkward transition because you're making assumptions about what this means. Sorry,
00:43:41.240
I interrupted you. So I don't, I don't have anything. I would just say, just keep doing
00:43:45.800
your work. I mean, obviously your, your bosses and your leaders acknowledge the work that you're
00:43:50.080
doing. So just keep doing your work and keep, keep serving this individual, keep doing what you can do,
00:43:56.260
keep doing your work. And, and when the time is right, those guys will let them know and you'll
00:44:00.900
be able to move in that position. But I don't, I don't think you're doing anything out of integrity by
00:44:04.520
not if, if somebody's out of integrity and I'm not saying they are, but if somebody is, it's your,
00:44:11.180
it's your leaders, not you. And I don't even know that they are like, there's timing and there's
00:44:16.380
things that you don't know about. Like you said, Kip, but yeah, just, just do your, just keep doing
00:44:21.140
your work. It's okay. Just keep doing your work, get your training you need. And when the situation's
00:44:25.960
right, that transition will happen. Juan Arroyo. I'm a sole provider for a household and I take care
00:44:34.360
of the finances. I have two-year-old son, another one on the way. How do I balance being a present
00:44:40.500
father, fiance and working while also trying to take care of myself in order to take better of my
00:44:46.220
family? I'm new to the iron council. Thank you, gentlemen. So work-life balance here is what we're
00:44:52.580
talking about, right? Yeah. And we've, we've hit on this a lot. And so you're going to hear about this
00:44:57.140
a lot. Really the biggest thing that you can do is focus on- And Juan, you're going to get better at
00:45:00.540
this, right? Totally. I see. Yeah. Focus on the four quadrants. So there's calibration that's
00:45:06.880
getting right with yourself, spiritually, mentally, emotionally. There's connection. That's the
00:45:11.640
relationships you have with other people. There's a condition that's your physical fitness. And then
00:45:16.620
there's contribution becoming a man of value. So those are the four quadrants. So the best thing
00:45:22.080
I can tell you to do right now is to do your battle plan. You're new to the iron council, do your battle
00:45:26.540
plan and create your objectives for your four quadrants and your tactics. And that's how you
00:45:31.580
find balance because now you have a plan. Now you're doing something. See, most guys will just
00:45:37.140
throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. And we don't, and even if we have some level of
00:45:43.520
success, we don't know how to replicate it because we just threw spaghetti at the wall. So the first thing
00:45:50.500
you need to do, it would be like on a football team and you get, you get all the guys together,
00:45:56.040
right? You get 11 players together and you're like, Hey, go try to score a touchdown. You guys,
00:46:00.960
you 11 guys go try to score. And so they concoct some sort of weird play or something and it works or
00:46:08.240
it doesn't. And then they come back and they're like, okay, try to do it again. Well, what are the
00:46:13.560
odds that they're going to be able to replicate that to the team?
00:46:16.600
You have no idea what happened, right? Right. Right. So what do you do? Well,
00:46:20.400
you get a playbook out and you're like, let's, Hey, let's draft 10 plays. Here's the 10 plays,
00:46:25.620
dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. And let's run them and play A works, play B works,
00:46:32.000
play C, that one didn't work. Play D, that one worked on that one time when we did this one thing
00:46:37.340
in this one situation. Okay. Play E, play out, like here's our 10 plays. And you're going to pull out
00:46:43.200
three that didn't work. You're going to really bump up three that did. You're
00:46:46.520
going to change a few that worked kind of to see if you can get them even better.
00:46:51.720
That's what the battle plan is. So you're going to do this. And then you're going to look at it on
00:46:55.960
30 days and 60 days and 90 days at the end of it. And you're going to say, okay, well, what worked?
00:47:00.900
Well, I was really present for my family, but my business suffered. And then you change.
00:47:04.880
And the next quarter, you're like, oh, my business did really well, but my family suffered. And then
00:47:08.180
you change. And so gradually you start tweaking and refining and honing this playbook
00:47:13.100
so that it creates the maximum result that you want. But go back in the meantime,
00:47:17.680
go back and listen. All of you guys should, if you have a question about work-life balance
00:47:21.380
podcast, I did, and I don't know how long ago it was, but the podcast is balance is a verb.
00:47:31.220
It's not that long ago. It's not some final destination. It's not a noun. It's like you
00:47:37.380
achieve balance. No, it's balancing. You're constantly doing it. So go back and listen to
00:47:42.740
balance is a verb because we talk about that at length. Yeah. And the only thing I'd add is have
00:47:47.280
some discipline around the plan, right? So if your tactic at the moment is to lift weights,
00:47:54.560
lift weights and that's it. Like literally be fully present. We talked about this in the Iron
00:47:59.940
Council, I think last month about the power of presence. If it's spending family time,
00:48:04.220
spend family time, put the damn phone around or down, I mean, and be present with your family.
00:48:09.900
Like do be amazing at whatever it is that you're currently doing. And you're going to
00:48:15.740
reap the rewards of being all in, in the moment and being fully present.
00:48:22.200
Yeah. I just wrote down here boundaries, right? Boundaries for work-life balance,
00:48:25.840
putting the phone away. That's a boundary. So there's plenty of them that you can have.
00:48:28.540
Let's take one more, Kip. All right. It's perfect because we only have one more.
00:48:32.860
Doug Swanson, thinking of your legacy event this past weekend, I'm reminded of John Eldridge's book,
00:48:39.980
Fathered by God, Fathered by God, where he accurately describes the different stages of
00:48:45.600
masculinity and how masculinity should be developed and mature with time. Eldridge says,
00:48:52.740
Boyhood above all else is a time of being the beloved son, the apple of your father's eye,
00:48:59.000
a time of affirmation. For though I maintain my premise laid out in Wild at Heart, that every man
00:49:05.600
shares the same core question, which is, do I have what it takes? Before and beneath that question
00:49:12.320
and a man's search for validation lies a deeper need to know that he is prized, delighted in,
00:49:18.860
and that he is a beloved son. How does this quote from John relate to what you offered those who
00:49:25.020
attended the legacy event this past weekend? I didn't offer those boys anything. I mean,
00:49:32.480
yeah, we have the facility, we have the place, we have the structure, but I didn't consider it my job
00:49:37.660
to offer that to them because I don't have, that's not a gift that I have or possess that I should be
00:49:42.860
giving to them. That's their father's gift, not mine. So what we do is we facilitate those
00:49:49.940
opportunities for fathers to do that for their sons by taking them to an event like this. They
00:49:55.820
wouldn't have invested in that event if they didn't care about their son and show them they
00:49:58.980
were appreciated and honored by having activities that were meant to forge tighter bonds and connections
00:50:03.880
with them by having talks around a fire to have them express how much they cared about their son or
00:50:09.760
how much their sons cared about their fathers. Like all we do is facilitate. Like I want to be
00:50:16.440
really, really clear is like, that's not a gift I can give. I don't possess that, but we just want
00:50:21.880
to make sure even with what we do with order of man, like we don't make men better. We facilitate
00:50:29.280
opportunities and environments and cultures where they can improve themselves and work together to
00:50:35.500
improve each other. So they're self-directed in that growth. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. So,
00:50:41.320
so yeah, what did we give? We gave the space, we gave the margin, we gave the structure, we gave the
00:50:46.540
activities, we gave the venue and even some prompts and some questions and the fathers ran with it.
00:50:53.320
So I think it's really important and going to an event like that, whether it's ours or somebody else's
00:50:57.600
is a great way to show your son how much you honor and respect them. One father came up and said,
00:51:02.020
you know, my son was fighting tooth and nail not to come to this all the way up until we pulled into
00:51:05.900
your, your parking lot out in your field. And I asked him at the end of the event, would he not,
00:51:12.420
not me, this father said, I asked my son at the end, would he like to come back? He says,
00:51:16.760
absolutely. I'd like to come back. So it's cool. It's really cool to see. And we're just facilitating.
00:51:23.820
That's all we're doing. Facilitating those opportunities. All right. It was a great event.
00:51:28.580
It was, it was awesome. Walt said it best. He said, they created it. The boys created it.
00:51:34.000
The men created it, not us. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Once again, orderofman.com slash iron council.
00:51:42.160
That's going to be open for another week and closed until towards the end of the year.
00:51:47.000
Right. So now's the time. If you guys wanted to execute on that fourth quarter,
00:51:51.400
instead of being like everyone else and throwing your ambitions to the wind and doing nothing until the
00:51:57.080
new year starts and you want to get on the court now, orderofman.com slash iron council. And of
00:52:03.900
course you can follow Mr. Mickler on the social media, on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Mickler.
00:52:08.660
And of course your swag at the order of man store, that's store.orderofman.com.
00:52:14.760
One last thing. Yesterday, the new book, the masculinity manifesto came out. So if you haven't
00:52:20.440
picked up your pre-order copy, you can pick it up and get it now. So wherever books are sold,
00:52:26.440
Amazon's probably best. It's called the masculinity manifesto. So please get that and then leave a
00:52:31.240
review on Amazon. Once you get it and read it, that goes a really, really long way in making sure
00:52:35.680
that people see it, that you're enjoying it. Hopefully that's the goal and that other men
00:52:40.560
get that book because it's much needed. So the masculinity manifesto is available.
00:52:45.200
Excellent. All right, guys, we appreciate you. Great questions today. Those questions all came
00:52:49.260
from members of the iron council. So they're digging in and we'll be back on Friday until then go out
00:52:54.520
there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man
00:52:59.540
podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:53:04.580
We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.