Pearl - Child Support Enforcer Reveals The Truth About Marriage No One Is Telling Men! w⧸ @thisisshah

00:00:00.000 So my job was to, you know, somebody would come in, typically mom, and say, hey, I need child

00:00:06.200 support. And I'd ask for all her info, and then I'd ask for info about the guy. And one of the

00:00:11.620 tough parts about the job is locate. We call it locate. So whatever she gives me, name, first and

00:00:17.440 last name, phone number, my job is to then go back to my desk and try to find this guy, the exact

00:00:23.560 match out of whoever, you know, duplicate name, senior, junior, whatever. And when I find him,

00:00:30.160 then it was my job to figure out how much is he making, you know, where does he live, and filing

00:00:35.820 a complaint to get him served with a, you know, a legal action so that we can then establish paternity

00:00:41.800 if it needed to be, or get money, basically.

00:00:44.800 And wherever you see monogamy, you see the dowry. And the dowry is essentially a transfer

00:00:56.780 of wealth that happens at marriage, but it happens from the bride's side. You're leaving

00:01:00.880 this family, your family has this much money for you, and this is to help set up the new

00:01:05.380 household. When you watch some of these panel shows or whatever, it's like women will say,

00:01:10.600 oh, well, I should deserve a king or something like that. It's funny, when you look at actual

00:01:14.560 kings, to be, to sit in the queen's seat, you have to come with some serious cash. You asked

00:01:20.440 me earlier about like worst cases. They got divorced. This was after probably five, six

00:01:25.220 years or whatever. In California, you have two years to challenge. And this guy just refused

00:01:29.220 to pay. And he was like, why don't you want to pay anything? He's like, because the kids

00:01:33.420 are not mine, and she's living with her ex-boyfriend, who is the real father. So she got married to

00:01:38.520 this guy, cheated on him in the marriage, had these kids, divorced him, were requiring

00:01:43.460 him to pay child support into this house. And she's now living with the kids, with this

00:01:47.080 previous ex-boyfriend, who is the actual father. And this guy is paying money into their household.

00:01:53.280 It's like a forced slavery.

00:01:57.660 What up, guys? Welcome to The Sit Down. Today, I have Shaw from his channel. This is Shaw.

00:02:03.100 And he actually worked in the child support system for how many years?

00:02:07.640 A little over five years.

00:02:08.760 And he was actually the guy chasing you down to get child support.

00:02:13.540 That was my job.

00:02:14.460 Do you get death threats now?

00:02:16.220 I mean, not now, but I used to.

00:02:18.380 They used to say they were going to find me by the taco truck on my lunch break.

00:02:21.800 Oh, really?

00:02:22.440 I was like, how'd they know there was a taco truck out there? They're watching me.

00:02:27.200 Yeah.

00:02:27.560 So you were like the one actually calling them?

00:02:30.300 Yeah.

00:02:30.740 Oh, wow.

00:02:31.160 In the first couple years that I worked there, I worked in a division called establishment.

00:02:36.660 That's just how we broke it down.

00:02:38.520 And establishment was all about making the new orders.

00:02:41.580 So my job was to, you know, somebody would come in, typically mom, and say, hey, I need

00:02:47.420 child support.

00:02:48.260 And I'd ask for all her info.

00:02:49.940 And then I'd ask for info about the guy.

00:02:51.860 And one of the tough parts about the job is locate.

00:02:55.040 We call it locate.

00:02:55.920 So whatever she gives me, name, first and last name, phone number, my job is to then

00:03:01.900 go back to my desk and try to find this guy, the exact match out of whoever, you know, duplicate

00:03:06.740 name, senior, junior, whatever.

00:03:09.620 And when I find him, then it was my job to figure out how much is he making, you know,

00:03:14.740 where does he live, and filing a complaint to get him served with a, you know, a legal action

00:03:21.380 so that we can then establish paternity if it needed to be, or get money, basically.

00:03:27.380 So yeah, that was a tough part of the job.

00:03:30.500 Sometimes people would come in, and they would just have a phone number.

00:03:34.060 They would have nothing else.

00:03:35.300 I don't actually know his name.

00:03:36.600 Oh, my God.

00:03:38.060 Yeah.

00:03:39.600 Was there any difference, like, when these people came in, and you saw, like, the crazy

00:03:44.640 stories, or the father of your kid, all you have is the phone number.

00:03:47.380 Did you see big difference in, like, did you see this across class, across race, like,

00:03:53.980 it was pretty much everything, or did you notice any differences?

00:03:57.320 I'll tell you this.

00:03:58.660 Every now and then, somebody who had a little bit of better income would get snagged, and

00:04:03.800 typically, it would be, like, one person with a good income meets somebody that doesn't

00:04:07.140 on either end.

00:04:09.160 But for the most part, 65% of our cases were welfare cases.

00:04:13.040 Really?

00:04:13.380 Yeah, so that means that the reason the case opened up was because a single parent, typically

00:04:18.460 mom, went to a welfare office and asked for money.

00:04:21.780 So you got a home.

00:04:22.860 You got a broken family.

00:04:24.180 So the welfare office would say, hey, there's cash aid going for this kid.

00:04:28.200 They would send us a request, and we'd automatically open up a case.

00:04:30.580 So you had to find out if a girl's on welfare.

00:04:32.940 Yeah.

00:04:33.380 Well, we would instantly.

00:04:34.940 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:04:35.440 No, I mean, if you're dating.

00:04:36.560 Yeah.

00:04:37.020 I mean, because a lot of times, a guy would, when we'd call them, they'd be surprised.

00:04:40.880 Like, oh, but she said she doesn't want child support, or we're good.

00:04:44.540 Why are you guys?

00:04:45.900 And it was this really stupid thing where it's, like, we couldn't explicitly tell them

00:04:49.520 they're on welfare.

00:04:50.440 But when they got the complaint, it says they're on welfare.

00:04:52.980 I don't know why they did that.

00:04:54.020 So a lot of our cases did fall into this category of where it had something to do with welfare.

00:05:01.320 Now, sometimes the guy would have a decent job, and she'd be on welfare, you know, maybe

00:05:06.960 once in a blue moon the other way around.

00:05:09.760 And then the other, you know, rest of the cases were non-welfare cases.

00:05:14.640 So these can be people who were married, or they were never married, but they just, you

00:05:19.280 know, they had decent incomes and stuff, and they would split up, or they would go through

00:05:24.340 a divorce, and it was just easier to come into our office and say, hey, can you get the

00:05:28.320 child support order for us?

00:05:30.400 We wouldn't, you know, it's pretty much financed by the taxpayers, except for, like, a tiny amount.

00:05:36.680 So there was a decent disparity, but a lot of the cases were welfare.

00:05:41.220 But I would say you'd be surprised who you'd see in there.

00:05:44.200 You know, I'd see all kinds of people, doctors, lawyers, you name it.

00:05:47.620 That's the thing when I started, like, researching this stuff, was I was surprised at how much

00:05:52.280 of the same problems I saw.

00:05:54.560 You know, because you always hear from trad cons to just find a special woman that's, like,

00:05:58.640 different, and they might say, you know, I've had certain ones say it's different with

00:06:02.780 this race.

00:06:03.680 I've had some say that it's different with this class.

00:06:06.300 Yeah.

00:06:06.940 I've had some say it's different with this religion.

00:06:09.260 And when I started interviewing victims of divorce rape, I didn't really see a difference.

00:06:14.940 I saw, like, women doing terrible things across all of that.

00:06:19.480 I could say where, I mean, at least for where I worked, I mean, the people from whatever background

00:06:25.060 seem to match the percentage of the population where I live anyways.

00:06:29.120 Right.

00:06:29.220 So I never looked at it and thought, oh, there's, you know, this many people, or I've never seen

00:06:36.960 someone from this religion or that religion.

00:06:39.360 Yeah.

00:06:39.740 I'd see people that you wouldn't expect to be getting divorced, and they ended up across

00:06:44.540 the table from me.

00:06:45.580 So I, working there for five years, I wish I could tell you and tell myself, oh, my God,

00:06:51.280 all you got to do is find this specific thing, and you're guaranteed she's never going to leave

00:06:57.080 you, or something like that.

00:06:58.120 But no, I never found that demographic.

00:07:00.840 Yeah.

00:07:01.440 What do you think about all of the, like, tradcon arguments about just finding a good woman?

00:07:08.040 Uh, well.

00:07:09.420 Like a religious?

00:07:11.060 Yeah.

00:07:11.520 I mean, you know, they'll say stuff like, well, you know, just find somebody that shares

00:07:15.640 your values.

00:07:16.600 And to some extent, it's like, okay, I can kind of see what argument they're trying to

00:07:20.040 make.

00:07:21.360 But then at the same time, it's like, you'll see people even that, there's a lot of what

00:07:26.680 I call cosplayers, maybe other people do too, or undercover feminists, I've heard that term.

00:07:32.260 And there's a lot of people who can portray that well enough.

00:07:35.560 But I don't even, I think even of the people who are, quote unquote, that thing, can still

00:07:40.980 have a likelihood of ending up getting divorced.

00:07:43.160 And I've spoken to people as much who've done that.

00:07:46.540 I don't think it's some surefire way of anything.

00:07:48.320 I think you're really gambling it, especially with them, too.

00:07:51.300 I think the tradcon proposal is particularly dangerous because they have this heavy emphasis

00:07:57.400 on, you know, mom staying home, mom not working, mom not bringing any kind of financial contribution

00:08:02.340 to this.

00:08:03.020 And she submits and does all that.

00:08:04.900 Sourdough.

00:08:05.540 Yeah.

00:08:06.020 Mom makes sourdough and, you know, does all this, has the wooden spoon and all that.

00:08:10.640 They're all about the cosplaying.

00:08:12.040 But I, my personal opinion is I think we're just kind of in a new era beyond that.

00:08:17.100 And anything you see is people trying to portray that, but they're not actually that

00:08:21.060 thing.

00:08:21.500 We're not organically creating these kind of traditional humans.

00:08:23.960 Right.

00:08:24.240 Because you can't even be in a traditional, I was actually on a show the other day explaining

00:08:28.580 that you can't be in a traditional relationship because women always have the leverage.

00:08:32.740 Yeah.

00:08:33.220 I mean, you can be, you can be someone who makes a lot of money.

00:08:39.300 Like you can be a guy with a lot of money and you can ostensibly find some woman who

00:08:45.020 wants to stay at home that's younger, but it can still blow up in the era of no fault

00:08:49.520 divorce.

00:08:50.100 All she, you don't even have to be divorced.

00:08:51.600 She can just walk into the child support agency and say, Hey, I'm, we're not living in

00:08:55.500 the same house.

00:08:58.020 I want child support and this is what I say the custody is and we will file against them.

00:09:02.280 I mean, you know, when it comes to the top of my head, Tyrese Gibson is someone, you know,

00:09:07.800 what I think of as someone who makes a lot of money and he found somebody and that didn't

00:09:12.200 end up well.

00:09:12.900 I know Steven Crowder is another example of a trad con and they all turned on that guy

00:09:17.860 really fast.

00:09:20.480 Yeah.

00:09:21.100 I, I think it's largely an imbalanced proposal and what they all do.

00:09:24.920 I just heard Matt Walsh say this and he'll say grandfather's grandfathers and for centuries

00:09:30.380 and centuries, you know, men provided and women did this and this is what men biologically

00:09:34.880 want to do.

00:09:35.700 But they give this very reductionist view of history and it misses a lot of important things.

00:09:42.300 You know, like one of the rabbit holes I've been going down on my channel is the dowry

00:09:45.800 and the history of the dowry and wherever you see monogamy, you see the dowry and the

00:09:52.640 dowry is essentially a transfer of wealth that happens at marriage, but it happens from

00:09:56.720 the bride's side and it goes to that new couple.

00:10:00.480 So it's pretty much an endowment on the woman and it says, you're leaving this family, your

00:10:05.400 family has this much money for you and this is to help set up the new household.

00:10:08.900 So in certain places like Greece, Cyprus, a typical dowry would be a fully furnished house,

00:10:14.880 a paid off house.

00:10:16.860 You know, that was the expectation for a middle class family.

00:10:19.680 In Greece?

00:10:20.940 Yeah.

00:10:21.220 What time period?

00:10:22.140 Like when did the dowry start?

00:10:24.140 The dowry started around the time agriculture changed from light tools like the hoe and

00:10:30.180 digging stick to heavier tools like the plow.

00:10:33.240 As far as the time period of what I'm speaking of specifically, that's like right 1970s Cyprus

00:10:39.340 I'm talking about right now.

00:10:40.660 Now there's a good paper.

00:10:41.420 I had a discussion with Paul Elam and we went over that paper and they're talking about

00:10:45.320 So as recently as the 70s?

00:10:48.020 Yeah.

00:10:48.420 Wow.

00:10:49.340 Yeah.

00:10:49.540 I figured it would be like 100 years ago plus.

00:10:52.320 Yeah.

00:10:52.700 I mean, there's a lot of stuff from around then.

00:10:55.620 Different places sort of abandoned it at different times.

00:10:59.900 I think England and US are probably earlier.

00:11:02.600 They're one of the first places to get industrialized.

00:11:04.860 You see kind of romantic love takeover as, you know, when modernization comes in, it tends

00:11:12.800 to have a lot more job opportunity that's kind of different from what people are usually

00:11:16.840 doing.

00:11:17.460 So people can say, screw you, mom and dad.

00:11:19.420 I'm going to live in an apartment with my girlfriend and we love each other.

00:11:21.920 And, you know, it just ended up that way.

00:11:24.620 And then they're more interested in college and things like that.

00:11:26.980 So in the US, was that like the 20s then?

00:11:31.100 Because isn't that when, it was like the 1880s to the 20s, I think.

00:11:35.980 I think in the US, I don't remember exactly, but I think that would have been sometime in

00:11:42.540 the 1800s.

00:11:43.540 Yeah.

00:11:43.860 The US was kind of known for abandoning these things a little bit earlier.

00:11:47.980 And the reason is, is because, you know, even in a lot of Europe, divorce didn't exist.

00:11:52.200 It was annulments, basically, all throughout Christendom, basically.

00:11:57.820 And then after you get your revolutions there, it changes.

00:12:00.520 But the US was one of the first places right after the American Revolution to start saying,

00:12:05.040 okay, we can do divorce now.

00:12:07.160 And then they created their system of at-fault divorce.

00:12:10.880 But, you know, it's, in some places it was still happening, but England and there, it started

00:12:17.480 to fall out of favor, especially as they got rid of, I think that's called Coventry.

00:12:25.060 No, not Coventry.

00:12:26.040 I can't remember the word for it, where the husband manages the finances and the woman can't

00:12:30.460 take debt.

00:12:31.720 So they start getting rid of that, I think, late 1800s.

00:12:35.780 And it falls out of favor.

00:12:38.060 But the reason I think it's so important is because the dowry is the missing piece in how

00:12:44.100 monogamy actually works, and it's what I call the check against hypergamy, basically.

00:12:49.120 So they get rid of the dowry system, and they essentially instill what is the love match.

00:12:54.140 So it's, we love each other.

00:12:55.360 It doesn't matter what class you come from.

00:12:58.180 There's all these rags to riches story.

00:13:00.520 This guy can leave his farm and go get a job over here.

00:13:03.140 And, you know, now he makes all this money.

00:13:05.180 I can take care of a family of five.

00:13:06.660 Screw you, father-in-law.

00:13:08.340 We can do whatever the hell we want to do.

00:13:10.800 That's just a very short blip in history.

00:13:12.800 And, you know, as it goes on now, we're starting to see this situation again where houses are

00:13:20.100 becoming harder to afford for the average person.

00:13:22.460 Typically, both people do need to work if they're going to do this.

00:13:25.520 Having a house and two kids and a wife is like a million-dollar venture, at least, over

00:13:29.980 that, you know, period.

00:13:31.980 So I just hear the TradCon stuff, and what they will do is say men need to be protectors

00:13:36.560 and providers, and they will be very hard on young men.

00:13:39.420 And they'll put all this pressure on young men.

00:13:40.940 And they'll say men need to do better.

00:13:42.760 You know, women just need to be good women, and men need to come in here and do all this

00:13:46.680 stuff.

00:13:47.020 But then when I look at it historically, I'm looking at all this stuff starting from, you

00:13:52.720 know, the turn of the two millennia ago coming all the way down.

00:13:57.300 Young men have never had the kind of pressure that they're putting on them.

00:14:00.680 And I would say unjustly, because what would happen is they would get married.

00:14:05.780 He would have some kind of income that her family would know what his trajectory was going

00:14:10.500 to be.

00:14:11.120 You know, he's from this family.

00:14:12.580 It looks like he's a pretty sharp young guy.

00:14:16.360 We want to marry our daughter within the same class.

00:14:19.500 We're going to give her this dowry for her wedding.

00:14:22.460 When they get married, they now have what's called a conjugal fund.

00:14:25.320 And this helps set up the new household.

00:14:27.340 It helps set up the trade shop or whatever for whatever this guy is going to be doing.

00:14:31.860 And then they would go in that way.

00:14:34.800 Nowadays, what we have is this really bad deal for monogamy.

00:14:39.360 You know, so you'll have these trad cons that'll say, you need to be monogamous.

00:14:43.100 You need to do that.

00:14:44.360 The groom needs to make this much money.

00:14:46.900 And she should never have to think about it.

00:14:49.120 They never mention anything about her family contributing at all.

00:14:53.200 And it's just impossible to do.

00:14:56.440 And, you know, when you look traditionally, the way a family attracted a high-status groom

00:15:01.160 or a groom of equal class was they typically endowed their daughters with the dowry.

00:15:07.260 So if you're a groom and you're looking at your options on the table,

00:15:14.080 you're going to be okay with taking a monogamous match and focusing your time and efforts here

00:15:19.160 because she's coming with something that's helped setting up a strong household.

00:15:23.840 You know, could you imagine if, I have a friend, he's an electrical engineer, okay?

00:15:28.520 He's got a master's degree.

00:15:31.120 And, you know, and I only imagine like, okay, if he would have, let's say he started his first job

00:15:37.000 and he's making 100K a year, 90 to 100, and his trajectory is to make a lot more, whatever it is.

00:15:42.540 And then there's some other family in the community.

00:15:45.020 Maybe they know each other.

00:15:46.020 Maybe they like each other.

00:15:48.300 Maybe they don't even know each other that well.

00:15:50.200 But if her family was like, you know, okay, she's 19, 20, whatever, you can go to college.

00:15:57.240 We can spend this money on your college tuition or you want, or we can save this for your marriage.

00:16:00.720 We have $200,000 set aside for you.

00:16:04.740 She coming with $200,000 might be a good match for my buddy here because, okay,

00:16:09.060 let's put this into the down payment of the house.

00:16:11.140 Let's put both of our names on it.

00:16:12.860 You're going to stay at home and have the kids until they're old enough.

00:16:15.960 And then if you want to get a job, do that.

00:16:18.120 I'm going to be working.

00:16:19.600 If this goes bust, we split the house down the middle.

00:16:22.340 She has incentive to at least stay for some time.

00:16:24.840 It might still suck a little bit down the line with all this custody stuff,

00:16:27.960 but it would actually be a match that made sense.

00:16:31.140 She's got skin in the game.

00:16:32.200 She's got skin in the game.

00:16:33.480 Exactly.

00:16:34.440 Right now, they really don't have skin in the game.

00:16:37.420 It's just, oh, well, I'm a submissive wife and I just want to stay home and do this.

00:16:42.600 Hey, right now.

00:16:43.220 You got to add in right now.

00:16:44.480 Yeah, right.

00:16:44.900 Yeah, exactly.

00:16:45.940 Right now.

00:16:46.800 And then eight years goes by and then he's sitting across the table from me

00:16:50.620 and he's just like, I don't understand.

00:16:52.800 But she said she would.

00:16:54.680 Yeah, she said I do and all that stuff.

00:16:57.460 And, you know, it's funny because with women like that,

00:17:02.560 I feel like they're kind of more incentivized to make it seem like the guy was abusive

00:17:05.940 because they have to keep this.

00:17:08.540 I mean, you saw this with the Crowder situation.

00:17:11.220 Apparently, the footage was edited.

00:17:12.920 That's what I've seen.

00:17:15.320 Yeah, I'm like, what did he do?

00:17:16.660 He yelled?

00:17:17.360 Yeah, he was in the back smoking a cigar so he wouldn't be smoking around his pregnant wife.

00:17:21.440 And she came out there barefoot.

00:17:22.800 She chose not to put shoes on.

00:17:24.340 But anyways, yeah, so, yeah, I don't know.

00:17:29.700 So then it's just like, okay, he's a bad guy.

00:17:31.320 They get divorced.

00:17:32.360 Now it's alimony.

00:17:33.460 Now it's child support time.

00:17:34.640 And it's just a stupid way of doing things, you know?

00:17:39.320 So I find it necessary to resurrect this.

00:17:44.900 I'm not so crazy to say, oh, we're going to bring back dowries.

00:17:47.920 But what I'm tired of is them saying if a man tries to negotiate for himself when it comes to,

00:17:53.780 especially a monogamous marriage, that you're not masculine or something stupid like that.

00:18:00.280 You're not being a man.

00:18:01.020 That was the other thing.

00:18:02.680 Like, I kept hearing from trad cons that women shouldn't work, right?

00:18:07.600 But I kept thinking, well, maybe if you have, like, my grandma had 13 children.

00:18:13.000 So that's a pretty strong case.

00:18:15.220 Yeah.

00:18:15.700 That's a lot of, but I'm like, we're having one and a half in public school.

00:18:19.700 What are you doing with your time?

00:18:21.080 Yeah, you're not even matching that.

00:18:22.460 I understand maybe, like, the first couple of years.

00:18:24.820 But once the kid's in school, you could be a teacher and have the same schedule as the child.

00:18:31.100 Yeah, you know, I think.

00:18:32.980 You get three months off in the summer, it's a decent salary.

00:18:36.360 I think a lot of that also doesn't exactly match with history.

00:18:41.160 So remember earlier I told you about how before the dowry, what you had was bride wealth,

00:18:47.440 formerly called bride price.

00:18:48.840 Okay.

00:18:49.100 Most people know it as bride price.

00:18:50.560 This is where the man pays the woman's family something.

00:18:53.340 Not to her, to her family.

00:18:56.600 Then they, as scholars studied it more, they changed the name from bride price to bride wealth

00:19:01.120 because bride wealth describes it better.

00:19:02.920 But back then, the reason that the man paid the bride wealth was because the woman worked.

00:19:08.840 We're not just talking about kids.

00:19:10.240 She was actually out there on the field.

00:19:11.860 So back then, agriculture was less sophisticated.

00:19:13.920 And that's why you see polygyny and bride wealth in places like sub-Saharan Africa.

00:19:20.040 You saw that with ancient Israelites, even Old Testament and stuff like that.

00:19:25.660 And you saw this in a lot of different civilizations.

00:19:28.840 And then what they noticed is that as they changed from tools women can actually handle,

00:19:34.160 like the digging stick or the hoe, and they moved to the plow.

00:19:39.640 The plow is this heavy instrument that takes a lot of strength.

00:19:43.120 And you've got to have these cattle in the front pulling it.

00:19:45.580 And you're trying to keep it in a straight line.

00:19:46.920 So men ended up doing this.

00:19:49.220 But back then, when women were using these other tools, they would be out on the fields

00:19:53.320 working all day.

00:19:54.460 And when you married her, her family lost that labor value.

00:19:58.280 So you paid them a set price.

00:20:00.140 And then they used that money to marry maybe another son in their family.

00:20:03.980 And then it became a circulating fund.

00:20:06.200 So bride wealths are all uniform prices.

00:20:08.240 It's not like this highest bidder thing.

00:20:09.880 It actually is a set price.

00:20:11.440 So how many hours a day were the women working?

00:20:13.760 Because I always hear that women are very exhausted because they're working in human

00:20:18.740 resources, and they're just so tired.

00:20:21.280 And so I've always wondered what would be the comparison of what women did in different

00:20:26.500 time periods to today.

00:20:28.280 I just can't imagine it's easier or it's harder now.

00:20:32.160 But I could be wrong.

00:20:34.320 That I'm not exactly sure in terms of what those specific women were doing.

00:20:38.140 I hear it may be less depending.

00:20:41.340 I think they probably work just as much.

00:20:42.740 But I'd have to look at it.

00:20:44.120 What I will say is...

00:20:45.060 I just wonder what their day-to-day was like, you know?

00:20:47.440 Yeah, I mean, you know, they're out there on the fields.

00:20:49.420 They're doing all this stuff.

00:20:50.340 But what happens is, is the plow comes in.

00:20:52.680 And when the plow comes in, one person can plow a field that's way more than humans can

00:21:00.400 do with the digging stick or with the hoe.

00:21:02.300 So you end up with a lot more, essentially, wealth because you're able to till a lot more

00:21:06.800 land, plant a lot more food.

00:21:09.180 So when the plow comes in, women start to become housebound because they're not needed

00:21:14.060 to work on the field anymore.

00:21:16.100 So they...

00:21:16.460 And the men started doing it all because it was a harder job to do.

00:21:20.920 And it was just creating a lot more wealth that you started seeing income stratification.

00:21:26.040 So polygynous societies, you know, bride wealth paying societies tend to be very uniform.

00:21:30.840 There isn't this very rich guy and this very poor guy.

00:21:33.780 They're all about the same.

00:21:35.020 Oh.

00:21:35.720 Okay?

00:21:36.480 Yeah.

00:21:36.660 So there's more polygamy when there's less income disparity, is what you're saying?

00:21:41.400 Yeah.

00:21:41.800 Polygyny.

00:21:42.320 Polygyny meaning that a man marries multiple.

00:21:45.180 Okay.

00:21:45.620 And the thing is, is like, you might have a guy with more than one wife, but he had to

00:21:50.440 pay that same uniform price.

00:21:52.200 So it circulates around.

00:21:53.420 So it brings him back into a kind of a match with everybody else's wealth by doing that.

00:21:59.140 When the plow comes on, you start to see income stratification.

00:22:04.320 Okay?

00:22:04.800 Now the women...

00:22:06.160 When a woman's working on the field, she's bringing in real income to the house.

00:22:09.740 We're not talking about labor at home.

00:22:11.780 We're not talking about making sourdough bread.

00:22:13.780 We're talking about actual agricultural income.

00:22:16.620 So stuff that needs to be produced, basically.

00:22:19.620 When the men start doing that and the women are more homebound, you end up with this huge

00:22:23.660 income stratification.

00:22:25.300 There's rich.

00:22:26.300 There's middle class.

00:22:27.800 There's poor.

00:22:29.460 And then what you start to see is it goes from bride wealth.

00:22:33.340 So now the man is not paying her family anymore.

00:22:37.100 Polygyny starts to go away.

00:22:38.560 Divorce becomes rare.

00:22:39.980 And then it starts to become monogamous because now private property is a lot more important.

00:22:45.060 Paternity of the child's going to be a lot more important, too, because now you're thinking

00:22:48.940 about inheritances a lot more, how this passes down.

00:22:53.120 The whole other side of the equation of marriage is actually inheritance also.

00:22:57.240 And when you talk about marriage, inheritance and how wealth threads down through generations

00:23:02.580 is really a part of that discussion.

00:23:05.120 So as you start getting these class differentiations, families want to either maintain class or they

00:23:12.180 want to go up a class.

00:23:13.100 That would be hypergamy, technically.

00:23:14.820 So to attract a high-status mate or at least a mate of equal status to you and to be monogamous,

00:23:23.540 they would attach a dowry to the daughter, which is part of her inheritance at the time

00:23:27.420 of marriage.

00:23:27.820 They would call it a pre-mortem inheritance.

00:23:29.240 So that happens.

00:23:32.960 And then so what you end up seeing when you look historically, the people who marry each

00:23:36.320 other tend to be from the same class.

00:23:38.760 So they're making a financial contribution that's about the same.

00:23:42.100 They're looking at what his income trajectory is going to be.

00:23:44.720 And they're looking at what she's bringing in from technically what is her inheritance.

00:23:47.880 You know, so it's, it's interesting because then when you look at trad cons today, if we

00:23:52.160 bring this all the way back to today, it's like the man needs to make all the money.

00:23:55.720 The woman's not responsible for bringing anything.

00:23:59.400 And it's just your job to figure out as a young guy, oh, and we want you to marry young,

00:24:03.200 even though a dowry would help people marry young, because how is she supposed to get

00:24:06.720 this house?

00:24:07.300 I mean, we're all waiting until we're 30, 31, 32 now anyways.

00:24:10.560 So there are all these things that the dowry actually helped with.

00:24:16.620 And back then there was no like welfare system or this kind of thing.

00:24:20.740 You know, you might've had some church charity or these kinds of things, but typically what

00:24:25.060 you can expect in those societies, and I'm not talking about ancient times, it started

00:24:29.960 to come in ancient times, but I'm talking even a few hundred years ago is women without

00:24:33.420 a dowry could not be expected to marry because they just, that's how ingrained it was in the

00:24:41.100 culture, you know?

00:24:42.360 So what would happen to them?

00:24:44.120 They would just be spinsters or what?

00:24:45.820 Yeah, they would probably just be at their house there.

00:24:49.840 Some of them would end up joining a convent.

00:24:51.660 There was still a fee to pay for that.

00:24:53.040 It was just a lot less than the dowry.

00:24:56.620 Or what would happen is they would end up working outside of the home to earn a dowry to

00:25:01.520 then get married with.

00:25:03.540 So you might find them being a, you know, a servant in the house of a higher status family.

00:25:08.700 And then part of that contract would be that that family would then pay her dowry so then

00:25:12.700 she could then get married later.

00:25:14.660 So you start to see, you know, in bride wealth, bride price, bride wealth societies, people

00:25:21.700 get married earlier and a lot younger over there.

00:25:24.040 As dowry comes in, it pushes it back a little bit, still relatively early for the way we do

00:25:29.080 things nowadays.

00:25:29.720 So yeah, you start to see the sophistication and complexity in how society exists.

00:25:37.000 So I've spent a lot of time looking at this just because it's really intrigued me.

00:25:41.520 And now when I hear guys like Matt Walsh, Michael Knowles, whoever it's going to be,

00:25:45.720 I think Lila Rose is another one.

00:25:48.100 They'll sit here and they'll make a big deal about monogamy and about all this stuff.

00:25:52.060 But what they're trying to trade for is something that is really untenable.

00:25:56.480 I mean, she can just leave with no-fault divorce.

00:25:59.560 I think a lot of these women that say they're submissive aren't actually submissive.

00:26:02.720 I mean, we're all growing up in the same culture, it seems like.

00:26:05.020 Right, yeah.

00:26:06.260 And then, you know, the family law is waiting there on the other end to just really make

00:26:11.300 it tough.

00:26:11.920 It's really hard.

00:26:13.620 So a lot of guys at this point are basically abstaining from it or they're saying, all

00:26:18.340 right, the long-term deal sucks here.

00:26:20.160 What do I get out of this?

00:26:21.020 I may as well just engage in short-term stuff.

00:26:24.400 Or, you know, the woman gets disappointed because the guy's playing her and then she's

00:26:27.920 like, oh, I thought he wanted to get married.

00:26:28.960 He didn't want to get married.

00:26:29.840 There's all this upset stuff going on because we live in this very weird gray zone where

00:26:34.360 people want to have one foot in and one foot out.

00:26:36.840 Yeah, because, you know, there's a difference between a guy looking for like a hookup or a

00:26:41.360 girlfriend and being on like the marriage market.

00:26:44.120 Yeah.

00:26:44.320 You know, so what incentive are they really giving that?

00:26:47.640 They're not like, they're not, the dowry at least would lower the risk.

00:26:52.860 Yeah.

00:26:53.280 Well, it's interesting too.

00:26:54.380 You know, it's funny because when you watch some of these panel shows or whatever, it's

00:26:58.880 like women will say, oh, well, you know, I'm a queen and this and that or I don't, you

00:27:03.080 know, I should deserve a king or something like that.

00:27:06.040 It's funny when you look at actual kings to be, to sit in the queen's seat, you had to

00:27:11.400 come with some serious cash.

00:27:12.820 Like you weren't just going there for no reason.

00:27:15.480 And if he's going to marry someone that brings nothing just because she's so beautiful, everybody

00:27:20.000 would look at him like he's the stupidest person on the planet.

00:27:24.080 King Henry VIII is one that's kind of a famous, you know, royal dowry story.

00:27:28.560 The queen that he was married to, he's the one that ended up, you know, breaking away

00:27:33.300 from the Catholic church and his first wife that he was married to for like 20 years,

00:27:39.180 she brought what was pretty much the annual income of all of England at the time, which

00:27:46.140 is something that they needed.

00:27:47.500 You know, they have all the same problems up there.

00:27:49.360 So if you're a woman and you say, you know, you want to be the queen and you're bringing

00:27:54.680 nothing, you have no contribution.

00:27:57.680 It really is, you know, the height of delusion.

00:27:59.960 They need to look in the mirror and say, and understand what class they're actually in.

00:28:04.000 It's kind of crazy that we're in a time where like basically a peasant woman can get a kid

00:28:11.480 off of a king.

00:28:12.740 Unfettered hypergamy is what that is.

00:28:14.640 The dowry used to be a check against that because let's say these two found each other.

00:28:19.360 Okay.

00:28:20.100 And they're going to, somebody brings up marriage.

00:28:24.140 Instantly, it would be a rejection because when they say, okay, let's talk about marriage.

00:28:27.940 The marriage discussion is a very different discussion from dating or whatever.

00:28:31.580 And I want men to remember this.

00:28:33.220 I really do.

00:28:33.740 I want men to remember how it was negotiated in the past.

00:28:36.660 So as we go into the future, they can have something to say back to them that they can't

00:28:42.280 be accused of not being masculine.

00:28:43.900 So many masculine men in history did this, but they would say, okay, what's your dowry?

00:28:48.520 What does your father do?

00:28:51.860 What's your family background?

00:28:53.160 And if the answer is nothing, I don't have a dowry to match this person up here, they'd

00:29:00.320 be like, yeah, this marriage isn't going to work.

00:29:02.300 You might want to look at someone closely to your class.

00:29:04.460 So it's a check against that.

00:29:06.280 So you can't just hide that.

00:29:08.520 Nowadays, what you'll get is you'll get an actor or you'll get an NFL player and they'll

00:29:13.960 they'll marry somebody with nothing.

00:29:16.760 And then they get dragged through the family law courts afterwards and they're wondering

00:29:19.900 what happened.

00:29:21.280 So that's that's what we see nowadays.

00:29:23.520 And a lot of this was encouraged from what I would say was very good economic times, probably

00:29:28.760 through the wealth brought in from colonialism, brought in through industrialization, brought

00:29:33.180 in through modernization.

00:29:34.360 And, you know, especially post-World War II, it was a different kind of economy.

00:29:41.260 You also saw this in Cyprus and places like that.

00:29:44.920 So, you know, Cyprus, the dowry was typically a house for the middle class as it started to

00:29:48.860 get modernized.

00:29:49.780 And that was after England.

00:29:51.480 England was like the first place you can say.

00:29:54.060 You know, they start sending their kids over to England and places like that to get educated.

00:29:59.000 They start to get urbanized.

00:30:00.460 You start to get these mega cities.

00:30:01.860 You start to get cheap apartments for rent.

00:30:04.060 They're living away from their families.

00:30:06.980 There's different jobs you can take now because of modernization.

00:30:10.620 People who might have been at a lesser class can go jump up a class easier.

00:30:15.600 So they're more focused than that.

00:30:17.580 And I think what you you ended up with was a kind of market bust because a lot of guys here

00:30:21.680 are saying, OK, well, I'm now worth more because I went to college and I have this job where

00:30:26.720 typically they would have married her.

00:30:28.420 This family's probably having trouble getting her married.

00:30:30.780 And you end up with this complete it's like a perfect storm and feminism, all these things,

00:30:35.460 changes in laws.

00:30:35.980 So it's a market bust because now the kings are like having kids with basically like

00:30:40.700 peasant women in a way.

00:30:42.560 Yeah.

00:30:42.820 Vice versa.

00:30:43.960 It's harder to chart someone's income trajectory than it was back then.

00:30:48.820 So that romantic love, the love match takes over.

00:30:53.320 You start to see that in literature.

00:30:56.040 You know, you think about it like the printing press, I think, came in the mid-1400s.

00:31:00.120 Literacy rate was really low.

00:31:02.260 Then they start making polygot Bibles.

00:31:04.420 And then they start making these tales of chivalry and these knights who would do these

00:31:07.640 amazing things for women.

00:31:08.900 That starts to get very popular.

00:31:11.200 Literacy rate goes up.

00:31:12.680 More people start to read.

00:31:14.120 Modernization.

00:31:15.100 So there's a cultural change.

00:31:17.240 And then, you know, people start looking for their love story a lot more.

00:31:21.240 But even as that goes, still for a long time, you know, we were talking about Germany earlier,

00:31:25.680 even into the 1850s.

00:31:27.320 If you look at their records there, people who are getting married are still bringing,

00:31:32.400 you know, some kind of dowry or equal contribution.

00:31:34.820 Then this basically falls out of favor.

00:31:38.720 I think we're hitting a point now where the economy and the culture and life, you know,

00:31:43.100 they'll say, oh, chivalry is dead, whether you believe that or not.

00:31:46.400 Women coach Greg Adams, you know, we'll talk about the monetized dating marketplace.

00:31:52.000 Millennials are having trouble buying houses.

00:31:54.680 You know what I mean?

00:31:55.340 And what I'm seeing is a kind of similarity to the way economy used to be back then.

00:31:59.460 Millennials might have a better time starting families and getting houses if the parents

00:32:04.240 are more involved in terms of a wealth threading through the generations like they used to do

00:32:09.700 for thousands of years, you know.

00:32:11.400 So we're in this very interesting time.

00:32:14.680 And I think we're kind of pushing on something new in the culture where I would like to see

00:32:20.040 men at least remember this so they don't have to feel like they're not a man if they ask

00:32:25.880 for what's owed to them if they're going to be the provider.

00:32:28.780 So my real first, I don't know, ax to grind is what TradCons, so to speak, because they're

00:32:34.120 the ones who are selling this stay-at-home monogamy with the man as this provider, the

00:32:38.960 100% provider.

00:32:40.600 So that's where I've been at for a while now.

00:32:43.960 So what would happen if the, you know, the daughter says, but dad, I love him, or the

00:32:49.900 son says, she's so high.

00:32:52.720 Yeah.

00:32:53.220 You know, what would happen if they told the parents no?

00:32:56.680 Well, in those time periods.

00:32:59.780 Yeah.

00:33:00.020 I mean, you, what would, if you really went against your parents like that, instead of

00:33:05.340 receiving your endowment.

00:33:06.680 Sorry, was this arranged?

00:33:07.860 It was arranged, right?

00:33:09.020 Yeah, it's arranged.

00:33:10.100 I think when it comes to arranged marriage, people have this sort of understanding that

00:33:14.240 it's like, oh, it all happens from when they're five and you'll never, they'll never have a

00:33:18.600 say in it.

00:33:19.080 But what you have is like matchmakers and stuff like that.

00:33:23.020 And you have, you know, even if you look at more recent history, if you look at Europe

00:33:27.020 and stuff like that, they would call it the mean person, so to speak.

00:33:30.260 So this mean person will probably understand in the community who's single, what dowries

00:33:37.220 they're bringing, you know, what the men are going to be making.

00:33:41.580 And then in their minds, they're going to be like, okay, these might be good pairings.

00:33:44.820 They might suggest different pairings.

00:33:46.460 And then however you guys do that negotiation, then it would happen.

00:33:51.140 So then you, then you can see in marriage contracts back then, you know, how they do

00:33:54.880 these kinds of things.

00:33:56.300 If a daughter, to answer your question, was like, no, I don't screw this.

00:34:00.460 I love this person, you know, Romeo and Juliet style or whatever.

00:34:05.340 You know, what would probably happen, I mean, you know, and I know there's all stuff with

00:34:09.820 the church and how that would, that would probably be something different, but they would probably

00:34:13.720 not receive their dowry, so to speak.

00:34:15.920 So it would say you, you run off or you elope, so to speak, you're written out of the, your

00:34:19.840 portion, your marriage portion, or if you're a son and you do the same thing, whatever your

00:34:24.880 inheritance is going to be is going to go away.

00:34:28.820 And that's the decision that, that you make.

00:34:30.660 And nowadays in our culture, it's kind of the same thing.

00:34:33.000 You know, parents aren't really expected to contribute anything in that regard.

00:34:36.680 Her, the future father-in-law, so to speak, you know, men don't look at him and say, okay,

00:34:41.200 what's the contribution from him?

00:34:43.480 So this, there's been this change where the way wealth is threaded isn't really the same.

00:34:49.440 And I mean, a lot of people are in a bad situation anyways.

00:34:51.680 They can barely figure out retirement.

00:34:53.260 They don't have something to give or the parents are already divorced.

00:34:56.520 So the, the juice egg, that's one thing I knew from working at child support is like

00:35:00.320 you'd have, if you, especially when it was a family that they were married, when the divorce

00:35:05.300 happens, whatever nest egg they had for those kids just gets juiced so fast.

00:35:08.940 Right.

00:35:09.520 And whether it's to the attorneys or if it's just imagine being in one house, now you have

00:35:14.300 two houses with two mortgages and two electric bills and two this, two that.

00:35:18.360 Um, so there's kind of not much left for the kids when it's their very important time of

00:35:23.640 their lives to figure out what am I going to do?

00:35:26.020 Well, it's interesting too, because with so many single mothers coming up, like the chance

00:35:30.600 of this dowry happening is like negative a thousand.

00:35:33.740 No.

00:35:34.360 Like, um, and even it's interesting too, because when I was thinking about the class difference

00:35:40.080 between, for Elon Musk and Ashley Sinclair in history, that never would have happened ever.

00:35:46.860 Yeah.

00:35:47.280 No, no.

00:35:48.140 I mean, and if it, you know, if it did happen, at least in the more recent history, that would

00:35:52.500 be an illegitimate child.

00:35:54.420 Um, and there, yeah.

00:35:56.280 What would happen to them?

00:35:57.420 So back then it was, it was really different.

00:35:59.760 Like nowadays we do this thing where we take a child who's illegitimate and we make them legitimate,

00:36:05.560 which means they have rights of inheritance and all this stuff in probate court.

00:36:09.400 Back then an illegitimate child, you're not going to legally inherit.

00:36:13.180 No.

00:36:13.380 No way.

00:36:14.160 Yeah.

00:36:14.460 So you have this illegitimate child.

00:36:16.600 Uh, it doesn't count.

00:36:17.880 And the, you know, the church was strict on this too.

00:36:20.040 There was no genetic tests back then either, but let me tell you something.

00:36:24.060 Adoption wasn't even legal until relatively recently.

00:36:26.780 No way.

00:36:27.320 The church outlawed adoption and it for, from ancient Rome, from whenever Christianity became

00:36:33.780 the sort of state religion, all the way up and through, through like 1850 or so, adoption

00:36:39.160 was, was illegal.

00:36:41.020 So they were very specific about, you know, what marriages can happen.

00:36:45.760 So what would happen to the kids whose parents died?

00:36:49.160 Uh, well, they probably end up in some kind of orphanage or, you know, um, but so it's,

00:36:55.680 it's interesting when you look at it, because what happens is, is, you know, back then, like,

00:36:59.020 let's say you married someone and she was barren or she couldn't have kids.

00:37:01.940 You couldn't really know that before, before, you know, they would maybe marry a concubine

00:37:07.660 who's not a wife, but she can provide a child and he can be made, he or she could be made

00:37:12.060 legitimate.

00:37:12.940 The church outlawed concubinage when, uh, they became monogamous.

00:37:17.840 So it almost helped the infertile woman because like in a way, because she still gets to stay

00:37:23.640 married instead of getting divorced.

00:37:24.980 If you look up what organization on the planet owns the most property, guess, guess what do

00:37:32.660 you think it is?

00:37:33.860 I'm thinking Bill Gates.

00:37:35.720 It's the Catholic church.

00:37:36.880 Oh no.

00:37:37.420 Oh, that's, I should have been able to guess.

00:37:39.360 The Catholic church owns the most property because what would happen is you'd end up with

00:37:44.120 people who didn't have heirs to pass it onto and they would gift it to the church.

00:37:47.280 So when they outlawed adoption, so you couldn't adopt somebody to get to pass it on, you couldn't

00:37:52.600 have a concubine, um, about 20% of people wouldn't have kids in Europe and another 20% would only

00:38:00.240 have daughters.

00:38:01.300 So that particular daughter, if, if she didn't get married, um, she would have a really nice

00:38:07.360 dowry because she's inheriting everything.

00:38:08.960 It's not just her portion.

00:38:10.180 But anyway, so it's a, it's an interesting history.

00:38:12.940 Um, and, and, you know, so you can kind of see how that forms Europe and what's different

00:38:18.560 about it.

00:38:19.060 But the part to where we get to today is nowadays, you'll see all kinds of strange things.

00:38:24.540 You'll have a kid out of wedlock.

00:38:25.800 And then as soon as the child support agency makes that kid a legal child, now this kid

00:38:30.720 has claims to certain things.

00:38:32.420 That's why sometimes when some historically that would never happen, because it would just

00:38:37.280 be the parents.

00:38:38.180 Yeah, yeah, well, that, this kid would be a bastard, it'd probably be pretty hard to

00:38:41.940 prove that, first of all.

00:38:43.420 I mean, even, you know, genetic tests came in the nineties, uh, relatively, that's where

00:38:48.460 you got Maury Povich, you got the show.

00:38:51.040 Prior to that, you had blood tests and paternity cases were like some of the hardest cases for

00:38:55.960 our attorneys at the child support agency.

00:38:57.720 Nowadays, they're easy because DNA tests make it so easy.

00:39:01.660 But back then you'd have to have these whole paternity trials and, you know, you'd have to bring

00:39:05.860 in witnesses and I saw them and they were behind the barn or whatever happened, you know what

00:39:09.620 I mean?

00:39:10.620 They placed them there.

00:39:13.380 Um, so then nowadays I look at genetic tests as like a nuclear bomb in this space, basically,

00:39:18.520 because once that happened, it meant it doesn't matter what the relationship with the child

00:39:23.860 is.

00:39:24.860 This guy's the father.

00:39:25.860 We can immediately get money from him.

00:39:27.380 And this is why child support and custody are separate also, by the way.

00:39:29.860 Uh, I'm curious, do you know anything about genie?

00:39:33.620 Like when that did come out, if they found it, like, has this cheating been going on for

00:39:39.060 longer than we thought?

00:39:40.620 Yeah.

00:39:41.620 Um, because I saw someone on Twitter, like replied to one of my tweets and they said that

00:39:46.160 they looked at geneal genealogical records and found that there was a lot more cheating

00:39:51.380 from like neighbors and other people in town that we know in history.

00:39:54.860 Now this is a random person on Twitter, so I don't know, but I was just curious.

00:39:59.860 You seem to have read a lot about this topic.

00:40:01.420 Yeah.

00:40:02.420 I don't, you know, I don't know if you can point to any specific numbers on there.

00:40:06.580 I think there was definitely a lot of that because once again, you couldn't prove it.

00:40:09.780 So, you know, and typically if communities were more homogenized and, you know, your neighbor

00:40:15.620 didn't look that different from you, it might be harder to tell.

00:40:19.580 So it probably did happen.

00:40:20.580 I mean, if you go off numbers now, I mean, I think they say out of genetic tests that they

00:40:24.300 actually do, which means that there was a suspicion of cheating already.

00:40:29.020 About a 30% of them or something end up not being it.

00:40:32.380 But you know, there were some indications where I think people might've been suspicious.

00:40:36.420 If there's DNA tests, oh my God.

00:40:39.700 It would have been different.

00:40:40.700 No, I meant now if there's mandatory DNA tests at birth.

00:40:44.260 They should do that.

00:40:45.260 Yeah.

00:40:46.260 But they can.

00:40:47.260 I'll tell you this.

00:40:48.260 They can't because like, like let's say 20% of the population is raising kids that aren't

00:40:55.260 there.

00:40:56.260 And they find out.

00:40:57.260 And they feel like, what is that going to do to society?

00:40:59.260 Yeah.

00:41:00.260 I don't think the government will ever let it happen.

00:41:01.260 I'll tell you this.

00:41:02.260 There's less incentive for the government to do it because from the government's point

00:41:05.980 of view, they want to see children born that have legal parents that are responsible

00:41:09.140 for them.

00:41:10.340 But the government probably does not want to pay to find out that we don't know who

00:41:15.100 the dad is and then, you know, have more kids on welfare or foster care.

00:41:18.580 I will say there has been suspicions in history.

00:41:20.580 I mean, I think it's called Lord Mansfield's rule.

00:41:23.940 This was in late 1700s.

00:41:25.580 I can't remember exactly, but it was in England and they made it to where you couldn't challenge

00:41:31.680 paternity of the kid all the way back then.

00:41:34.240 So it kind of leads me to believe that there must've been people who were like, that's not

00:41:37.760 my kid and they were trying to get this figured out until they were like, no, you know, stop

00:41:42.180 bringing this up basically.

00:41:43.880 So there's always suspicion.

00:41:45.380 It's possible.

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00:43:26.800 Yeah, because I just wonder, do you think any laws will change in the future?

00:43:31.620 I find it, I'm going to give you my thoughts so you can tell me if you agree or disagree,

00:43:35.920 but I find it very improbable because there's just so much money in this machine.

00:43:41.820 So, with all the lawyers that are involved, all the policy makers, all of the people benefit,

00:43:49.180 social security, I don't see any incentive for it to change.

00:43:55.440 Do you have more hope than me?

00:43:57.460 You know, I'm definitely guilty of being a, you know how you got the Just Lift bros?

00:44:02.880 I was a Just Change the Laws bro kind of guy.

00:44:05.720 But, you know, I've spent a lot of time talking with a lot of folks in this space,

00:44:09.700 especially with folks like Paul Elam, Peter Wright, and they've kind of watched these sort

00:44:14.560 of men's rights initiatives happen over a long period of time just in their lives,

00:44:18.880 but also historically they've done the research and they've kind of seen that if the culture

00:44:23.960 is not caught up with it, it tends to not happen.

00:44:28.140 So, you know, I don't see any big push for loss to change, unfortunately.

00:44:32.820 I think with more men avoiding marriage, you know, the only time they start to ask questions

00:44:39.380 is when it seems like they're losing out, like, oh, the birth rate's down, or this is this,

00:44:45.300 or men's checking out.

00:44:46.240 There's an incentive, yeah.

00:44:47.480 Yeah, and it's like, what can we do?

00:44:48.620 And they will do everything they can to avoid giving men stuff.

00:44:52.340 I hate to say it, but what they'll do is like, oh, well, how can we make IVF easier

00:44:55.780 for women, or something like that.

00:44:58.540 Or let's give women a tax break or something, and the men get nothing.

00:45:02.200 Now they're paying us to have kids.

00:45:03.920 Yeah, I think I saw that recently.

00:45:06.060 Like, do you think five grand is going to help?

00:45:08.920 No.

00:45:09.460 Yeah, and it's, you know, there's, it's kind of a strange thing because, I mean, we know

00:45:14.140 kids have a tougher time, or at least a worse prognosis if the father's not in their

00:45:18.540 life, and, you know, there's a lot of people selling marriage, and if they want to do that,

00:45:23.400 they need to make marriage a deal that at least works for both parties, at least during

00:45:27.220 at-fault divorce.

00:45:28.660 Okay, there were no dowries back then, but at least in at-fault, you had some protection.

00:45:33.000 I mean, if, you know, if you cheated on her as the guy, you'd get screwed over, and,

00:45:40.500 you know, rightfully so.

00:45:41.480 Oh, you were, you caused the injury in this.

00:45:43.840 You were at-fault.

00:45:44.760 If she cheated on you, you'd be the injured party, and the way that the assets of the marriage

00:45:49.700 get divvied up would be different, you know?

00:45:51.400 So we don't even have that.

00:45:53.620 Now we have no-fault, you know, and I know there's an argument, we can't even go back

00:45:57.560 to at-fault.

00:45:58.280 You know, that's, that's unrealistic.

00:45:59.620 There'd be so many false abuse cases.

00:46:01.840 It's just, would be a waste of money anyways, probably.

00:46:04.740 But, you know, that was at least, still in my opinion, a little bit better.

00:46:08.060 Now we're at no-fault.

00:46:09.060 Well, this is why I like to study things like the dowry and things, is because we're

00:46:13.280 in this environment that's so hostile legally, and it's like, if I was going to take the monogamy

00:46:18.520 deal, what at least makes sense, and this is what our ancestors did.

00:46:21.660 Another thing is, like, you know, I worked at child support, so my, the whole job of a

00:46:25.320 child support officer is to look at a calculator.

00:46:27.420 I mean, aside from the locate and the cheek swabs for the genetic tests and whatever, the calculator

00:46:33.900 is just this thing on my screen that you, you have to know, and on this side, you put

00:46:39.340 in his income, on that side, you put in her income, and then this is the custody, and then

00:46:43.140 there's, you know, various other things, you know, whatever your mortgage interest or something.

00:46:47.780 But for the most part, that's the core of it.

00:46:49.720 And so for five years, I look at this calculator, and if two people make the same income, and

00:46:56.040 it's 50% custody, that's zero.

00:46:57.900 Nobody owes each other anything.

00:47:00.200 If you're a guy and she makes more money, she might have to end up paying you, depending

00:47:05.180 on what custody is, especially for alimony, that's going to be different.

00:47:09.220 So I read thousands of divorce orders and child support orders, and I just looked at the calculator.

00:47:16.600 I looked at what people were doing, I saw whose divorces seemed to be the worst, whose

00:47:21.360 seemed to be at least manageable, like if I had to get divorced, who would I be?

00:47:26.160 And the people that seem to be married to people who make around the same income seem

00:47:33.320 to have the most, you know, like, easy, amicable divorces.

00:47:37.680 If you're not going to have that, and, you know, she's not going to make money, and you're

00:47:41.920 going to make a lot of money, at least not be married to her, because there's a difference.

00:47:45.020 You know what, I don't think I had a single, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think

00:47:51.240 I had a divorce story that was super bad from two people making the same.

00:47:55.940 Yeah.

00:47:56.300 I don't, I'm not saying, I'm sure they're out, I'm sure they're out.

00:47:58.940 I mean, we've seen-

00:47:59.420 There's the emotional nightmare part.

00:48:01.300 Yeah.

00:48:01.700 Yeah.

00:48:02.120 I mean, they'll cheat.

00:48:03.240 Yeah.

00:48:03.560 They'll cheat at work.

00:48:04.140 That part sucks, but at least, you know, you'll have, like, here's the thing, if you're going

00:48:08.700 to end up getting divorced, you guys make around the same, and I've always read this

00:48:12.480 in orders.

00:48:13.020 What will happen is both parties usually agree to terminate spousal support.

00:48:17.120 So the court will write, court terminates jurisdiction to award spousal support, and

00:48:20.880 then that's it.

00:48:21.840 You know, they might set child support to zero, and they might just figure out custody on their

00:48:25.460 own.

00:48:26.040 Now, later on, that could be an issue, and she might say, oh, I want to keep custody from

00:48:30.560 him, and they'd have to go through that.

00:48:32.280 But at least you have money to fight for custody.

00:48:35.080 At least you're not paying- Imagine paying alimony, paying child support.

00:48:39.660 We're fast.

00:48:40.300 Even if your divorce isn't complete yet, you'll be paying child support.

00:48:44.240 You're paying all this, and then somewhere along the line, you've got to figure out how

00:48:47.220 to fight for custody.

00:48:48.820 And, you know, there's a lot of custody horror stories out there to where a guy spends over

00:48:52.920 $100,000 just to get some small percentage of custody.

00:48:56.560 So it's all, you know, kind of a pirate victory there.

00:48:59.200 So, yeah, you know, on the job, I'm looking at this, and I'm just like, man, I'm hearing

00:49:04.360 stuff in the space, and, you know, on the one hand, tradcons are saying this.

00:49:08.420 I'm like, oh, no, that's bad.

00:49:10.140 You even get red pill guys will say, oh, no, you know, we want this, we want that.

00:49:14.620 The guy should make all the money and do that.

00:49:16.120 Okay, fine, if that's what you want, but if you sign a marriage contract, you know, get

00:49:21.680 the marriage license, not even a real contract anymore now, it's just the family codes.

00:49:26.420 Reading marriage contracts from the past are very interesting.

00:49:29.060 But that's another thing.

00:49:31.140 If you take that deal, I mean, it's just, how can you even complain later when you get

00:49:35.340 screwed over?

00:49:35.800 Yeah, so if you do take the deal, what's worse if you have a stay-at-home?

00:49:41.720 Stay-at-home where are the worst?

00:49:42.720 Tell me if you're at the same income, what you're going to pay, or versus if you have

00:49:48.760 a stay-at-home, like how much more money am I, let's say I make $100,000 a year.

00:49:53.040 How much more money am I spending if I marry a woman that also makes $100,000 or she makes

00:49:58.500 zero?

00:49:59.060 If she also makes $100,000, I think that would be the ideal situation, because it's a similar

00:50:04.040 contribution.

00:50:05.600 You guys have probably put the same into the house.

00:50:07.780 But as far as alimony, what will likely happen is that the court will, you guys will just

00:50:13.180 both agree that there's no alimony, and for the court to just waive jurisdiction.

00:50:16.980 That's what I saw in most of the judgments.

00:50:18.960 So most of the divorce and dissolution judgments I read, when the incomes were like that, more

00:50:24.900 than likely, they had written that in there.

00:50:26.760 It was like standard language.

00:50:27.980 They had the same income.

00:50:28.820 About the same or around, or it's just depending.

00:50:32.500 Sometimes, even if she was higher, men were just more or less likely to take alimony, even

00:50:36.500 if they could have got it.

00:50:38.300 But typically, if it's about the same, they'd say, okay, you keep your retirement, I keep

00:50:42.440 my retirement, no alimony.

00:50:44.360 And there might be some small amount of child support if he's like, okay, you know what?

00:50:48.420 I actually can't keep them this amount of time.

00:50:50.680 Or she's like, I can't.

00:50:51.820 I'll pay a little bit of that.

00:50:54.580 And then the house would either get split, or somebody would buy each other out.

00:50:58.140 And they were typically the most amiable divorces.

00:51:02.500 You know, and I've seen a lot of nightmare ones where it's just, just sitting at my desk,

00:51:07.440 I just cannot be the guy that gets the worst end of the, it does not matter.

00:51:13.020 It doesn't matter who cheated on who, whatever it is.

00:51:16.100 You asked me earlier about like worst cases.

00:51:18.360 I, you know, I didn't work this one specifically, but my coworker in the cubicle next to me, the

00:51:23.920 case was so bad.

00:51:24.780 He had to put, I heard him on the phone, he had to put it down and stand up and come

00:51:27.660 talk to me because he needed to talk to somebody.

00:51:29.700 And this was somebody who was, he was married to the woman and they, I can't remember if

00:51:37.600 it was two or three kids.

00:51:39.960 But they got divorced and, you know, this was after probably five, six years or whatever

00:51:45.500 in California, you have two years to challenge.

00:51:48.100 So he, he owed child support.

00:51:49.500 The reason it came to my coworker's desk was he worked on a special arrears unit for people

00:51:54.620 who owed a lot of money and this guy just refused to pay.

00:51:58.080 Okay.

00:51:58.460 And so when he called them up and he was like, why don't you want to pay anything?

00:52:02.400 He's like, because the kids are not mine.

00:52:04.640 And she's living with her ex-boyfriend who is the real father.

00:52:07.960 So she got married to this guy, cheated on him in the marriage, had these kids, divorced

00:52:12.180 him, we're, we're requiring him to pay child support into this house.

00:52:15.440 And she's now living with the kids, with this previous ex-boyfriend who is the actual

00:52:19.440 father.

00:52:19.940 And this guy is paying money into their household.

00:52:23.740 It's like a forced slavery.

00:52:25.960 So yeah, he, he put the phone down.

00:52:27.460 He came to me and he was like, I don't, if it was me, like he was, I'm like, yeah, he's

00:52:31.260 like, he's like, I don't want to say it if it was me.

00:52:32.900 I was like, yeah, I get it.

00:52:33.760 Don't worry.

00:52:35.160 So yeah, I mean, that's just the, there are some real nightmare situations like that.

00:52:40.080 So what's the difference in child support or alimony versus someone that had, like, let's

00:52:47.020 say the custody's 50, 50, one was a housewife, one made the same.

00:52:52.060 Uh, well, let's say, okay, if it's a housewife too, typically, uh, she'll probably get most

00:52:57.560 of the custody, but let's say, let's say a guy's making, it's a hundred, I don't know,

00:53:01.680 like eight grand a month, uh, about as a gross income.

00:53:06.820 Uh, let's say it's worst case scenario, whatever.

00:53:09.580 She says you were violent.

00:53:11.280 You get kicked out of the house.

00:53:12.600 You got no custody.

00:53:14.060 You're fighting this.

00:53:15.040 The divorce hasn't even gone through child support's already involved because she went

00:53:18.260 straight to the child support agency.

00:53:20.320 Um, you would be paying about 25% of your net income.

00:53:24.800 So the calculator would figure in the taxes for the eight grand.

00:53:28.400 It would probably be about like 5,300 or so is going to be net.

00:53:32.220 And then you'd probably be paying about 1,500 or so, um, just off rip.

00:53:38.380 Um, if it's around the same income and in custody's the same, uh, it would be zero.

00:53:43.680 And even if it's 50, 50, I don't know what it would be off the top of my head, but it

00:53:47.000 would be, it would be less than, than that amount.

00:53:49.660 So I recommend people to play around with their state child support guideline calculator.

00:53:53.960 Um, you know, like in some states, California is pretty bad.

00:53:58.400 You know, people know that there's interest on arrears.

00:54:00.360 New York is pretty tough.

00:54:01.480 Uh, Florida, you remember, you know, I don't know if it's okay to bring up, but there was

00:54:06.220 a, uh, fresh and fit.

00:54:08.320 And there was that, that possible baby story there in Florida.

00:54:12.480 And she went back to New York and she was saying very publicly that, oh, uh, he's not

00:54:19.220 helping me.

00:54:20.040 And he kicked me out basically like because of his, uh, actions, she had to go back to

00:54:26.420 New York.

00:54:26.860 When I saw that, that's a very specific thing legally because, sorry if this is off topic,

00:54:32.140 but it's just something important to know.

00:54:34.160 There are very specific laws where if you have one, let's say you're in a state where

00:54:40.600 child support might be less.

00:54:42.140 And then she, she's here living with you.

00:54:44.520 And then she, you guys have a kid and then she leaves and goes back to live with her parents.

00:54:48.860 She can argue that because of his directives, I had to go back to California.

00:54:52.520 So it means that California has jurisdiction to make the order.

00:54:55.840 So it's a higher order.

00:54:56.740 So that's what you saw with New York versus Florida.

00:54:58.920 That's what she was trying to do.

00:55:00.480 I always thought she'd talk to an attorney or something like that.

00:55:03.200 But so there's all these little stupid rules and games, but a lot of it can be negated by

00:55:08.500 if you're going to have a kid with somebody, have one with somebody who at least has some

00:55:14.360 kind of job or career.

00:55:15.520 I know a lot of people don't like that.

00:55:17.160 Trad cons don't like that.

00:55:18.380 Even red pillars don't like that because they, you know, oh, the women aren't supposed to

00:55:22.800 do that or whatever.

00:55:23.920 I'm just looking at it from what I saw in the papers.

00:55:25.820 So the 25% though, that was for the same income or the housewife?

00:55:31.000 That was for the housewife.

00:55:32.220 It would be less, it would be less for someone who's working.

00:55:34.800 Okay.

00:55:35.080 So someone that was working, it might be, could I get a range?

00:55:37.960 I know it depends.

00:55:38.840 I say it'd be anywhere from zero.

00:55:41.580 It depends on custody.

00:55:42.720 If you have 0% custody, you'd still pay about that 25%.

00:55:46.860 Okay.

00:55:47.160 So if you got nothing, it would be the same.

00:55:49.160 Yes.

00:55:49.560 But you're more likely to get nothing if she's a housewife.

00:55:51.680 Yeah.

00:55:52.000 Because she's just been there.

00:55:53.300 Yeah.

00:55:53.520 A lot of it goes off the relationship with the child.

00:55:55.880 And it's weird because it's like, you come home every night and see the kid, but they're

00:55:58.540 going to be like, okay, she's been at home with the kids.

00:56:00.900 So they're going to be more likely to give it to her.

00:56:03.320 She doesn't have a job now.

00:56:04.640 So you're going to be paying alimony.

00:56:06.640 You're going to be paying the bills on the house.

00:56:08.500 You might be ordered to do that while they're trying to figure out what happens to this.

00:56:12.800 You're going to be paying an additional child support and they may or may not tell her to

00:56:17.600 try to find a job.

00:56:18.440 Probably not.

00:56:19.620 The only time they might do that is if she had a prior history of working.

00:56:22.760 You know, I saw somebody with like a master's degree and this lady was crying in court,

00:56:26.640 but eventually they're just like, you have a master's degree.

00:56:29.420 How come you're not working or making any money?

00:56:31.720 You know, so they imputed some income onto her, which was pretty rare.

00:56:35.380 So it just, that will depend on custody.

00:56:39.160 But for the most part, most of those orders I've seen were a lot easier to deal with.

00:56:44.580 That's just my experience.

00:56:45.480 What would, like, I'm just curious on average, the percent difference, if they're close to

00:56:49.760 the same.

00:56:50.500 If it's close to the same, it all depends on, because now custody is the deciding factor.

00:56:55.180 What if, what if they get a semi-fair?

00:56:57.600 If it's like 50-50?

00:56:59.240 50-50 or close.

00:57:01.060 Does it have to be 51%?

00:57:04.540 So someone makes, in Texas at least, I talked to.

00:57:07.940 On the California guideline, they will put 51% and 49, even if it's actually 50-50.

00:57:13.240 Sometimes I have seen them do that.

00:57:15.820 But just because it's, it's 50, if it's 50-50 and they're, and it's, they're each making

00:57:21.460 eight grand, let's say it's zero child support.

00:57:24.160 If she's a housewife and he's making eight grand, I don't know the exact percentage, but

00:57:28.320 it's not, it's going to be a little bit less than the 24%.

00:57:30.980 It, it's still going to be over half that though.

00:57:34.160 So it'll probably be around like 15 to 20%.

00:57:37.100 Okay.

00:57:37.700 Okay.

00:57:38.020 Just depending.

00:57:38.520 But over time, that's going to add up.

00:57:40.100 Yeah, it's still going to, it's, it's still a lot.

00:57:41.740 You know, I saw this, this case and it was, this guy made a big mistake.

00:57:46.120 Um, it was, it was actually a police officer.

00:57:48.360 They make pretty good money depending on where they are, 10 to 15 a month.

00:57:52.440 Um, I think he was, he was, he was around eight to 10, somewhere there, I think.

00:57:58.180 And, uh, he went to a different state and ended up knocking somebody up on a one night

00:58:02.060 stand.

00:58:03.380 And, uh, yeah, so he, he's at home with his wife and kids and they have a mortgage and

00:58:08.680 he's, his wife stay at home.

00:58:10.220 So he's paying everything.

00:58:11.500 Oh, wait, his, wait, so who did he knock up?

00:58:15.200 It wasn't the wife.

00:58:16.140 It was like a side chick.

00:58:17.080 Yeah, it was in a different, it was in a, like, yeah, it was, I can't remember where

00:58:21.220 it was, but he went somewhere and, um, basically it happened that California had to make the

00:58:27.660 order.

00:58:28.160 So, you know, looking at the math on this case, if this guy makes eight to 10 grand or whatever,

00:58:32.360 they have a mortgage that's like, you know, 2,500 a month, you know, so take taxes away,

00:58:36.960 take the mortgage away, take this away.

00:58:38.560 And then all of a sudden, so he's not paying any child support to anybody, which means this

00:58:42.260 is the first child support order, which means it's going to be like that max amount of 20.

00:58:46.420 He's got 0% custody.

00:58:47.680 He didn't even know this kid existed until we opened the case.

00:58:51.120 Um, so they're taking like two, you know, it's going to be a significant amount where

00:58:55.720 he might not even be able to pay his bills for his family.

00:58:58.720 So, I mean, you know, that's, that's the game that they're playing.

00:59:03.360 Um, so yeah, you'd, you'd see stuff like that and I don't know.

00:59:07.760 So as a guy that's worked there before, I'm, I can't get it out of my mind to not be doing,

00:59:13.500 like if I go to a wedding and I might just, okay, so what do they do?

00:59:16.800 That's interesting, you know, and then in my, my brain, I'm, I'm doing all this, this math and

00:59:22.120 I'm, I'm in, you know, I'm not, God bless them.

00:59:24.460 I hope the marriage lasts forever, but you know, I was thinking, okay, what happens if, you know,

00:59:27.900 but in the dowry system, you know, this is stuff they were thinking about.

00:59:31.140 This is a front end deal for a long-term monogamous marriage.

00:59:35.000 Nowadays, I, I think the, the, and this is where I think red pill stuff is, red pill stuff

00:59:40.540 is good because it really helps out with intersexual dynamics or if you look at it from the MGTOW

00:59:45.080 side and all this kind of stuff, that's interesting.

00:59:47.760 I think red pill at its best helps men maximize short-term options and, you know, you can have

00:59:53.920 a casual relationship with somebody for 15 years.

00:59:56.300 I would still consider that a short-term low leverage thing, but when it comes into this

01:00:00.200 long-term let's have kids and now leverage ourselves and invest ourselves into it, nobody

01:00:06.080 really has a good solution for that, you know, red pill, you know, they always used to say

01:00:12.480 to even with the red pillars on, on Reddit, there used to be married TRP and they said,

01:00:16.560 guys who were married had the hardest version of red pill.

01:00:19.880 Yeah.

01:00:20.400 They had it the toughest basically.

01:00:21.740 And, and, you know, you can apply some of that stuff and it may work, but for a lot of

01:00:26.560 people, it's not going to work.

01:00:27.740 And for a lot of people, you're not going to be this extremely rich person that can bounce

01:00:31.700 back or whatever.

01:00:32.760 You're going to be normal.

01:00:33.560 And you're also more of a risk if you do the like trad thing, have a bunch of kids, right?

01:00:37.400 Yeah.

01:00:37.920 Yeah.

01:00:38.320 Oh yeah.

01:00:38.740 I mean, you can end up with, you know, two kids, one kid will be about 25%.

01:00:42.400 That's what we're talking about.

01:00:43.260 Two kids will be about like 40%.

01:00:45.040 And then.

01:00:45.920 Holy shit.

01:00:46.800 Yeah.

01:00:47.060 40%.

01:00:47.660 Of the net income.

01:00:48.800 And then three.

01:00:49.340 All the guys are going to be like, I'm one kid.

01:00:51.640 Yeah.

01:00:51.900 Then it'll hit like 55 and then it'll, it'll eventually hit some maximum.

01:00:55.660 But at that point there was a guy, there's up to 55%.

01:00:59.620 So yeah, it reaches some maximum pre-tax or, um, well, that's, that's, that's net.

01:01:07.340 What?

01:01:08.000 Uh, the amount of child support, that percentage applies to their net earnings.

01:01:11.400 So it's, uh, the calculator, at least the California one takes out, it does the taxes.

01:01:16.300 So you'll put in your dependents and stuff like that.

01:01:18.240 There was a case and I swear to God, we used to show this to, I became a trainer for a

01:01:22.940 little bit too, but even when I got hired on the lady who was training me, she was really

01:01:28.140 funny.

01:01:28.460 She would always tell me, she's just like, if you're ever going to get married, ask for

01:01:31.420 their credit report, you better ask for their credit report.

01:01:34.420 Okay.

01:01:34.980 Anyways, that's just funny.

01:01:35.940 That's good advice though.

01:01:36.800 Yeah.

01:01:37.060 Um, but she would, she had this specific case and this guy, I swear to God, he had

01:01:42.360 like 15, he had like at least 14 or 15 cases and some of them with multiple kids on it.

01:01:48.860 This guy was legendary amongst the office.

01:01:52.840 And the thing is, was like, you know, he just, I think he just worked, he worked like some

01:01:57.000 normal job.

01:01:58.040 So child support had no choice, but to just try to get a percentage based off however,

01:02:03.280 this calculator could, cause they can only get so much out of this one turnip.

01:02:07.320 And so some of the kids would have like a $12 order.

01:02:09.780 Some would be getting three bucks a month.

01:02:11.420 Some of them had a prior one.

01:02:12.800 No way.

01:02:13.440 Yeah.

01:02:13.600 But this guy, he was going to be a lifer.

01:02:15.120 I mean, cause some of them, he owed hundreds of thousands.

01:02:17.460 There was no way he was ever going to be able to pay this off and you can't bankrupt the

01:02:20.340 debt.

01:02:21.180 It was just, but he would pay his payments.

01:02:22.960 You know, we'd have to work and say, okay, well, this is your paycheck.

01:02:26.180 You got to at least pay us this much.

01:02:27.800 And somehow he was doing that.

01:02:29.400 Did you ever meet him?

01:02:31.160 I never met him, but I'll tell you something funny.

01:02:32.820 So like, is he really attractive or what was the...

01:02:35.520 That's so funny.

01:02:36.180 You said, you know why that's funny?

01:02:37.260 Because when I first got hired, the woman who, whose case it was, who originally, and

01:02:42.000 then when I became a trainer, I'd show the same case, but she told us about how this is

01:02:46.920 before COVID and Zoom, right?

01:02:48.920 So back then, whenever, if one kid would be added, like a new kid was born, they'd have

01:02:53.560 to modify all the other orders.

01:02:54.940 So they'd have to bring all the moms into court on one day.

01:02:58.140 And I swear to God, the women that worked at the child support office all had to go across

01:03:02.060 the street.

01:03:02.360 Because they had to see what this guy looked like.

01:03:04.600 I never saw him, but according to them, he was pretty average or normal, but maybe they

01:03:08.440 were just saying that because they didn't like him or something.

01:03:10.920 But what did he do?

01:03:12.460 Maybe it was like the job he was in had a lot of women.

01:03:15.200 Like I'm thinking it was just like a day club promoter.

01:03:18.940 No, no.

01:03:19.740 It was, it was relatively nondescript.

01:03:21.600 Bartender.

01:03:22.300 No, I mean, we're at a lot of people just work for the government where I'm at.

01:03:27.080 So it was something like that.

01:03:28.340 Yeah.

01:03:28.760 But yeah, that's, it was a normal job, like a normal income.

01:03:33.080 A lot of the government employees are women.

01:03:35.180 So maybe, right?

01:03:36.600 Yeah.

01:03:36.860 I'm pretty sure they're the majority.

01:03:38.360 Yeah, it's possible.

01:03:39.440 I mean, you know.

01:03:40.840 Slaying girls in the office.

01:03:42.400 Well, and I'll tell you, you know, like there's, there's a lot of scumbag women out there,

01:03:45.920 but there's also scumbag men too sometimes that'll, I once had a woman come in the office

01:03:50.780 and she had like a, it was like a six month old kid with the baby was in the little, you

01:03:56.340 know, carry thing.

01:03:58.440 And I'm in there and, you know, I'm opening the case, you know, give me your application.

01:04:03.640 Okay.

01:04:03.840 What do you do?

01:04:04.520 I'm getting her income.

01:04:05.900 Okay.

01:04:06.280 What's the kid's name?

01:04:07.640 Okay.

01:04:07.980 How old's the kid, birth date, all that stuff.

01:04:10.160 And then when I see the dad's name, I saw he already, so I can see from my end, he already

01:04:17.440 existed in the system with the whole other child support case.

01:04:21.340 So I, I do the calculation and she's getting like, I saw it's like 124 bucks a month because

01:04:26.500 he's already paying on this other case.

01:04:28.040 And that's, that's how it came out.

01:04:30.780 So I show her, I'm like, okay, well, I got the complaint filed.

01:04:33.840 We'll go ahead and get this served to him.

01:04:35.120 This is what we're asking for.

01:04:37.240 And she's like 124 bucks.

01:04:39.980 She's like, I don't understand.

01:04:40.900 Like he works.

01:04:41.440 Why would it be so low?

01:04:42.780 And like, I didn't realize this at the time and I kind of blurted it out and I felt bad,

01:04:46.500 but I was, I was like, oh, well, it's cause it's cause he's paying support for his other

01:04:50.240 kids.

01:04:50.540 See, if you look at the calculation, you can see how much he's paying for the kid.

01:04:53.580 And she was like, he has other kids.

01:04:55.200 And I swear to God in that moment, like I saw like her realizing how badly she got screwed

01:04:59.620 over from, I felt bad for her.

01:05:01.060 Like I really felt bad.

01:05:02.040 Like, oh my God, like you got screwed.

01:05:02.980 This is one of the moms or this is a different one?

01:05:05.460 This is one of the moms.

01:05:06.500 Oh, from the guy that.

01:05:08.520 Oh, this, this is a different guy, completely different case.

01:05:11.180 Yeah, no worries.

01:05:11.720 Um, so yeah, so I saw that end of it.

01:05:14.600 So I'm like, you know, guys can, I used to call this going nuclear.

01:05:18.780 This is different, but guys can really screw over.

01:05:21.520 Like if you, some guys, once they got caught in the system, they would say F this and have

01:05:26.100 as many kids with as many different women as possible.

01:05:29.280 Um, and it would just have to divide up the order, you know, and on the other end, women

01:05:34.580 can say, screw this.

01:05:35.520 I'm going to have as many different kids with as many different guys as possible.

01:05:38.480 And if they don't owe other child support, I'll get the max order from each of them.

01:05:42.040 Oh, so they're, they kind of become.

01:05:44.220 Yeah.

01:05:44.880 So if you have one kid with somebody, let's say it's the 24, 25% of the income.

01:05:49.240 Then if you have two kids, it's 40%.

01:05:51.180 That's what the same guy.

01:05:52.520 If you have two different guys, now you have 25% of each of their incomes.

01:05:56.100 What if you have, is there a difference between if you have different moms or the same mom?

01:05:59.860 Like, do you pay more if it's different?

01:06:02.420 No, it's all the same guideline calculation.

01:06:04.180 What affects it though, is there's a part on the calculator that asks for, um, other

01:06:09.820 support paid or other kids that you have.

01:06:12.860 And when you put that in, it'll, it'll make an adjustment to the rest of them.

01:06:17.140 And sometimes they'll have to, it gets really technical, but sometimes you'd have to have,

01:06:22.200 like as a case worker, we used to call it toggling.

01:06:24.800 And you'd have to have three cases up and I'd have to put in, okay, this child support amount.

01:06:29.140 Then I'd have to put that in, in the other one.

01:06:30.500 And then I'd have to keep doing it until it balances out.

01:06:33.100 It's like an interesting thing.

01:06:34.580 So, um, yeah, so that's all kinds of wacky stuff.

01:06:38.060 I'd, I'd see, you'd see all kinds of crazy things.

01:06:40.140 I, you know, I saw a lady, this lady had like 15 kids and she was running some kind of scam.

01:06:45.960 I don't know what it was, but I think it had something to do with immigration back then.

01:06:50.160 Um, because the guy, I don't know, like the guy, it was like an undocumented person and

01:06:55.240 she was there and she was having kids with people and I don't know some, I couldn't put

01:06:59.220 my finger on it, but it was just super strange.

01:07:01.100 And I kept trying to tell this guy, Hey, if you need a genetic test, um, you might want

01:07:05.660 to ask for that.

01:07:06.280 And he's just like, she's like bossing him around and trying to say, no, just sign.

01:07:10.500 I'm like, Hey, you got to be quiet.

01:07:12.080 I need to tell him this.

01:07:13.240 He needs to make a decision.

01:07:14.340 This isn't, you know, so I would see strange things.

01:07:18.080 I would see social security numbers, like sometimes we would see two incomes coming

01:07:21.980 in for one social security number and usually it was because an undocumented person was using

01:07:26.760 this person's social security number to work under.

01:07:28.460 So it would show this person's working two full-time jobs and we'd be like, Oh, that's

01:07:32.820 weird.

01:07:33.280 Like that's not the case.

01:07:34.300 So there's all kinds of wacky things with child support.

01:07:38.400 I mean, there'd be welfare fraud, um, international cases were another thing.

01:07:43.000 Uh, it's, it's a system that you think is simple, but it's incredibly complex and technical.

01:07:50.100 Like it takes like a year to really understand how it works.

01:07:54.840 And so I just, I want to know what this guy looked like.

01:07:59.360 The 60, I like want to know, like, was he, I can't believe a normal guy got 16 girls pregnant.

01:08:06.540 That's insane.

01:08:07.100 Yeah.

01:08:08.260 Oh God.

01:08:09.100 I, you know, I, I, I, I couldn't say, I mean, there's some things I

01:08:12.880 seen in there cause we have to put different attributes about them, but yeah, you know,

01:08:17.020 I didn't see him in person.

01:08:18.060 Let's just say that.

01:08:20.180 But so your whole point though, is that conservatives are missing that the dowry is the

01:08:25.780 really, I mean, cause we can't, I don't, if the law, my personal opinion is if the law

01:08:33.200 has changed, I don't know if it'll be in my lifetime at a point when it matters.

01:08:37.640 Yeah.

01:08:37.820 Like it might be in 20, 30 years, but I hope it's sooner, but I, you know, as CGA says,

01:08:45.240 hope isn't a strategy.

01:08:46.080 Yeah.

01:08:46.540 Right.

01:08:47.040 Yep.

01:08:47.460 So high value man equals high value target.

01:08:49.920 That's another CGA ism.

01:08:51.480 Yeah.

01:08:52.040 Yeah.

01:08:52.260 And that's what I used to see at child support, by the way.

01:08:54.500 Really?

01:08:55.100 Yeah.

01:08:55.260 Higher value man, bigger fish to fry.

01:08:57.040 If you're going to take the trad con deal.

01:08:59.440 Yeah.

01:08:59.820 But yeah, going to what you're saying about.

01:09:01.400 And the, the only equalizer in a way, and it's not even really an equalizer, it just

01:09:06.580 lowers the risk a little bit.

01:09:09.080 Is the women earning more?

01:09:10.500 Yeah.

01:09:10.660 Or the women bringing a dowry, like in some way to college, they bring money.

01:09:14.500 Yeah, exactly.

01:09:15.720 And I think at the very least men need to use that understanding as a, as a tool for negotiation

01:09:21.340 and not feel like their masculinity is at stake.

01:09:24.520 You know, just because you ask for an equal contribution doesn't mean you're suddenly wearing

01:09:28.040 a skirt or something like that.

01:09:29.880 That's literally how they did it historically.

01:09:32.680 And I would encourage anybody to research the dowry and how it really worked.

01:09:35.700 There's a lot of people with a lot of misconceptions about it and they don't understand it.

01:09:39.680 Even with the data that we have, it, it's formally called marriage transactions.

01:09:45.000 That's, that's the heading.

01:09:45.800 That's where bride wealth and dowry are filed under.

01:09:47.640 You also have bride service.

01:09:49.440 I think Leah and Rachel in the old Testament, you know, when they were married, I can't remember

01:09:54.160 if it was Jacob or not, but he did seven years of bride service for them, laboring

01:09:57.420 for the father.

01:09:58.240 So that's a different kind of thing.

01:09:59.240 Then there's bride wealth and there's dowry and monogamous societies dowry is, is what

01:10:03.920 it is.

01:10:04.220 And what you see is that in societies practicing that it, it actually negates hypergamy.

01:10:10.620 And as the people up here start to pair off with monogamy, it creates positive, assertive

01:10:16.460 matching going down.

01:10:17.500 So if you have someone who's high status, the only thing you can possibly give him to

01:10:22.760 actually be monogamous is some kind of deal on the other side.

01:10:26.600 That's so good that he takes it.

01:10:28.560 That's why King Henry the eighth, uh, when his brother Arthur died, married his brother's

01:10:33.940 widow because she had such a big dowry.

01:10:36.120 No way.

01:10:37.120 Yes.

01:10:38.120 That they were like, you need to take this.

01:10:39.800 Um, and you're stupid if you don't do that.

01:10:40.800 And they were married for 20 years, then you get your Anne Boleyn story and all that kind

01:10:45.580 of stuff.

01:10:46.580 The only thing that can create monogamy in that.

01:10:49.960 So, so trad cons are very far off until they accept this aspect of it.

01:10:54.460 Like, I feel like asking them every single time when they, they come to young men and

01:10:58.320 they put this inordinate pressure on them.

01:11:00.520 I want to ask them, how much money have you saved for your daughter's marriage?

01:11:04.600 Have you even thought about that?

01:11:06.420 Uh, so how, how's your daughter, if you want your daughter to be the stay at home submissive

01:11:10.140 wife, why are we only doing traditionalism halfway?

01:11:13.600 Do traditionalism all the way.

01:11:15.100 Right.

01:11:16.100 What they do is they'll stay with the gaslighting and gynocentrism of, of the love match, of

01:11:20.640 the love marriage.

01:11:21.640 None of that is, you know, particularly religious in a way.

01:11:25.540 It's kind of a newer thing in history.

01:11:27.500 It's that, that's not what their dowries were happening all throughout Europe with United

01:11:31.520 Christendom.

01:11:32.520 It's happening before that.

01:11:33.520 Yeah.

01:11:34.520 It's not like Matt Walsh did it the traditional way.

01:11:37.460 Like even his wife on match.com, I can talk about this.

01:11:42.720 They talk about this story.

01:11:44.620 You would think he's a lumberjack and that he was chopping trees down and he met her and

01:11:49.160 he brought him sourdough and they got married and it was great.

01:11:53.700 Yeah.

01:11:54.700 But it's like, as you were saying, it's cosplay.

01:11:56.240 Yeah.

01:11:57.240 You can't be in a traditional marriage in this society.

01:11:59.240 You can't.

01:12:00.240 Yeah.

01:12:01.240 It's traditional as long as she wants it to be.

01:12:03.780 It's cosplaying.

01:12:04.780 Yeah.

01:12:05.780 She listens as long as she feels like it.

01:12:07.780 There's no enforcement.

01:12:08.780 Yeah.

01:12:09.780 That's why the trad wife thing is so funny too.

01:12:10.780 Like, you know, like the Tik Tok trad wife.

01:12:12.780 Yeah.

01:12:13.780 It's funny to me because I see that and it's like, I'm watching them wear clown makeup.

01:12:17.520 It literally might as well be clown makeup.

01:12:19.320 They're just, it's like making fun of something.

01:12:21.620 It just doesn't even exist.

01:12:22.820 It's so ridiculous that it's been reduced to sourdough bread and dressing up with a certain

01:12:28.320 way.

01:12:29.320 It has, there's no substance behind it.

01:12:30.320 There is no dowry talk.

01:12:31.640 There is no, how much I saved up for my daughter's wedding to give them the best start.

01:12:35.780 Yeah.

01:12:36.780 I've made bread before.

01:12:37.780 Not sourdough, but I know how to make bread.

01:12:38.780 Yeah.

01:12:39.780 All I thought when I made it was this is the biggest waste of time.

01:12:42.780 I could have just bought it.

01:12:43.780 You know.

01:12:44.780 It's like $5.

01:12:45.780 You know what I did?

01:12:46.780 And I've tasted it.

01:12:47.780 I'm like, it's really not.

01:12:48.780 Maybe I'm just not that good at it, but I'm like, it is not that different enough.

01:12:52.780 I could go to Panera.

01:12:54.780 It's like way better.

01:12:55.780 Well, you know what?

01:12:56.780 It's, there's that.

01:12:57.780 And it's like, if you actually cook for yourself, I feel like if men aren't marrying until they're

01:13:02.280 30, they're doing something.

01:13:03.280 They're cleaning up after themselves.

01:13:04.280 Yeah.

01:13:05.280 And I challenged myself to bake a cake from scratch.

01:13:08.280 And after I did it, I was like, it's not that hard.

01:13:10.280 It's not that hard.

01:13:11.280 What the heck's everybody complaining about?

01:13:12.280 This isn't that bad.

01:13:14.280 Roasting a chicken is not that bad.

01:13:16.280 That's the general consensus I get from men.

01:13:19.280 I've heard like, whenever women say something super hard, I always just think it's not that

01:13:24.280 hard.

01:13:25.280 And what I've heard, I'm not a parent, so I can't say this until I've done it.

01:13:29.280 But I heard that a lot of my male friends that have children, that's their response about

01:13:34.280 being a dad.

01:13:35.280 Yeah.

01:13:36.280 Is that they thought it was going to be so difficult and that they thought it was really

01:13:40.280 easy.

01:13:41.280 Yeah.

01:13:42.280 And they heard so much for years.

01:13:43.280 Yeah.

01:13:44.280 Being a mother is the hardest job.

01:13:46.280 And they're like, this is it.

01:13:47.280 Yeah.

01:13:48.280 So it's not that bad.

01:13:49.280 Or I mean, you know what?

01:13:50.280 Well, it's interesting because there's certain things they'll say to keep the gas light going.

01:13:54.280 And it's like, what about all this unpaid labor we've been doing?

01:13:57.280 Oh my God.

01:13:58.280 The emotional labor.

01:13:59.280 Yeah.

01:14:00.280 And it's like men have to do so much emotional labor because if she's in a bad mood, think

01:14:04.280 about all, you can walk in the house and you got to be careful, not set her off.

01:14:08.280 Or they'll say all this home activity.

01:14:10.280 Then it's like, what about men?

01:14:11.280 Men got to clean the gutters, change the oil, change the alternator, fix the leak in

01:14:15.280 the sink.

01:14:16.280 There's a ton of stuff you can name off that men do that's unpaid.

01:14:18.280 You guys don't talk about your problems.

01:14:20.280 So if we're going to talk about emotional labor, like women talk about our problems,

01:14:25.280 men don't.

01:14:26.280 Yeah.

01:14:27.280 And then you got to sit there and do emotional labor and listen to it and say, Oh my God,

01:14:30.280 I'm sorry that happened.

01:14:32.280 Wow.

01:14:33.280 You know, I saw this clip of, um, fresh where like the, he was doing the voice that when

01:14:40.280 he pretends to listen to women, it was so funny.

01:14:43.280 He's like, really?

01:14:45.280 Yeah.

01:14:46.280 Yeah.

01:14:47.280 Oh my God.

01:14:48.280 Yeah.

01:14:49.280 And so I'm like, if anything, it's the men doing emotional labor.

01:14:54.280 Cause if we gave you guys the silent treatment, you would kind of, you guys, it's probably

01:15:00.280 kind of nice.

01:15:01.280 Well, it's funny.

01:15:02.280 Sometimes women will call, will call and they will, it's like, they will be digging to

01:15:06.280 find the chink in the armor.

01:15:07.280 Like I had someone call me once and she was like, she would always have things to complain

01:15:11.280 about.

01:15:12.280 And she was like, how come every time I call you, like, you're just, Oh, like you're just

01:15:15.280 on a walk or you're drinking a cup of tea and you're reading the book.

01:15:19.280 And I was like, in my mind, I'm thinking, cause I would never tell you my problems, but I'm

01:15:24.280 just like, Oh, because everything's good.

01:15:26.280 Everything is fine.

01:15:27.280 Cause you guys have inner peace.

01:15:29.280 You know?

01:15:30.280 Yeah.

01:15:31.280 So that's, there's a lot of interesting things out there that keep the gas light going.

01:15:37.280 And I don't know, reading about the dowry or looking at child support, I feel like helps

01:15:41.280 me just kind of tug at the curtains here at the end and see what's outside of this.

01:15:46.280 And so what do you, so you said like romantic love or I can't remember the word you love

01:15:51.280 match.

01:15:52.280 Yeah.

01:15:53.280 And you said that wasn't really historically.

01:15:54.280 No.

01:15:55.280 So Peter, right.

01:15:56.280 He does a, this is really a specialty.

01:15:58.280 Yeah.

01:15:59.280 And he has gynocentrism.com, but he, he charts basically chivalry becoming romantic chivalry.

01:16:05.280 And, you know, back then chivalry was a knight's code and a knight would go into a Lord's service

01:16:09.280 and, uh, do all these militaristic things.

01:16:12.280 And he would be awarded different lands, which would give them different incomes.

01:16:15.280 And there was a reason to do this.

01:16:17.280 Uh, then as romantic chivalry starts to come and you get tales of knights going into what

01:16:22.280 was called love service, uh, for, for different ladies, you know, and they would go, you know,

01:16:28.280 do these different tasks or, you know, all for their, their, their lady.

01:16:32.280 And this kind of starts off with the very small elite class for a long time.

01:16:37.280 And then you start to see things like the printing press come in.

01:16:40.280 You start to see tales of this stuff being read all over Europe, all over the new world.

01:16:44.280 Then you get into modernization and industrialization and these different income opportunities.

01:16:49.280 And you start to get the democratization of, of love.

01:16:52.280 So you start to move away from what was a marriage of reason into what is a marriage of folly,

01:16:58.280 where we're letting emotions dictate who we're going to marry for the rest of our lives.

01:17:01.280 At least back then when they had more normal divorce laws.

01:17:04.280 Um, and as you can see, it's been a disaster and here we are pretty well.

01:17:10.280 I mean, on TV, maybe, um, you know, maybe, maybe, you know, that's another thing too, right?

01:17:17.280 Cause when, when Tradcon sell family, they're selling what was on TV in the fifties.

01:17:21.280 Right.

01:17:22.280 And it's like, that was the new modern American, the modern American family.

01:17:27.280 Uh, this is what the TV, the TV was probably new back then where everybody could afford one.

01:17:31.280 And it was selling us an idea about a family.

01:17:34.280 Um, you know, families were a lot more integrated throughout generations.

01:17:37.280 And even before the church, there were more clan type families, which are very different than the church comes in.

01:17:43.280 The church institutes monogamy, uh, makes all these changes consanguinity.

01:17:48.280 So cousin marriage goes away.

01:17:50.280 That's a whole different history right there.

01:17:52.280 Yeah.

01:17:53.280 There's a, there's a lot of interesting facets about how that works or how that used to work.

01:17:58.280 But as the church came in, it made Europe this unique place because you, marriages couldn't happen unless they're within a certain degrees of people.

01:18:05.280 Um, and it, and it, you know, it starts to change things.

01:18:09.280 And then we end up to where we are today.

01:18:11.280 Once feminism and love matches come in and become popular modernization and all these things.

01:18:17.280 And now we're trying to figure out what the hell do we do?

01:18:19.280 It's all crashing down.

01:18:20.280 And you said there was more incentive to like marry with, not now, but earlier.

01:18:25.280 I think you said there's more incentive for people to marry within their like class, like within class culture.

01:18:31.280 That's what you said.

01:18:32.280 Oh yeah.

01:18:33.280 Um, yeah.

01:18:34.280 Listen, I mean, you know, like the case of Cyprus or whatever culture you're from, this is just, I've never read this anywhere.

01:18:40.280 This is just my opinion, you know, but like, if you're from somewhere, you know, I kind of look at these things as checkpoints of culture, right?

01:18:48.280 Like there's you growing up here.

01:18:50.280 Then there's the wedding.

01:18:51.280 A wedding is this incredibly cultural thing, you know?

01:18:54.280 Then there's the way you do funerals and all this kind of stuff.

01:18:57.280 If you're a man growing up in a culture and you're looking at your options on the table for marriage.

01:19:03.280 If you're going to do a love match, which could be anybody, not in your culture, whatever, you're attracted to each other.

01:19:09.280 You're not going to get these financial incentives.

01:19:12.280 Um, but your culture may offer you something to take the arranged marriage deal or take marrying within the in-group endogamy, as they would say.

01:19:22.280 Um, and it's, if you marry someone from your own, so to speak, this is what comes with it.

01:19:27.280 In Cyprus, you're getting a house, you know, a fully furnished house from the parents.

01:19:31.280 In Italy, it would be the bride's father's job to build a house for the new couple.

01:19:34.280 Oh, because it's kind of close by.

01:19:36.280 Yeah, so, you know, obviously there wasn't dating apps and stuff, but I would imagine that there was still an incentive to say,

01:19:42.280 Hey, marry within your culture because this is all the things that come with it.

01:19:47.280 Now, culture is mostly just the kind of dressing that people wear.

01:19:50.280 It's, oh, it's the food or, oh, that, you know, pattern looks nice or whatever it is.

01:19:55.280 Or we, we're all cosplaying, so to speak, but the substantive stuff isn't there.

01:19:59.280 So where would you recommend men go to find these high-earning women?

01:20:03.280 Like what?

01:20:04.280 Cause you saw a lot of salaries, right?

01:20:06.280 Yeah.

01:20:07.280 I know everybody hates this, but I, I swear to God.

01:20:10.280 I would, I would do a nurse, a pharmacist.

01:20:13.280 I know they'll say a nurse will cheat on you, but you're not protected from that anyways.

01:20:17.280 Yeah.

01:20:18.280 All right.

01:20:19.280 A pharmacist.

01:20:20.280 The PI we had on said the housewives were more likely to cheat.

01:20:23.280 Well, that's even crazier.

01:20:24.280 I always hear nurses are the ones.

01:20:26.280 No, he didn't say, he said, who's more likely to cheat a housewife or a career woman?

01:20:30.280 And he said a housewife.

01:20:31.280 Wow.

01:20:32.280 Yeah.

01:20:33.280 Well, God, that's sad.

01:20:34.280 Yeah.

01:20:35.280 You know, think about it.

01:20:36.280 They got more time.

01:20:37.280 Yeah.

01:20:38.280 I don't know if they're cheating out the hospitals or what, but there's only so many doctors,

01:20:41.280 right?

01:20:42.280 I always say that cause I always saw so many nurses paying alimony.

01:20:45.280 Okay.

01:20:46.280 And let me tell you a woman that has to pay alimony is pissed.

01:20:48.280 She was the hardest woman to make a phone call to.

01:20:51.280 They want to like bite my head off.

01:20:52.280 They're like, how, how do I have to pay child support for my own children or this or that?

01:20:56.280 Or he does nothing or he's lazy.

01:20:58.280 And it's like, oh, somehow it's different when they have to pay.

01:21:01.280 Right.

01:21:02.280 But men have been doing it for so long.

01:21:05.280 You know, nobody cares about that.

01:21:07.280 So.

01:21:08.280 So you saw a lot of nurses that were on alimony.

01:21:10.280 Yeah.

01:21:11.280 Like the most common one.

01:21:12.280 Well, where I'm at, there's a lot of nurses.

01:21:14.280 You'd sometimes see, you know, very rarely a doctor women or this or that.

01:21:18.280 I do think it is, you know, as we go now into the future, like that was a trend in child

01:21:24.280 support we were seeing was that we're starting to see an uptick in women paying child support.

01:21:28.280 Right.

01:21:29.280 It's still mostly men, but it's definitely gone up.

01:21:32.280 And this is because of careers and all this kind of stuff.

01:21:36.280 So, you know, the chances of you swinging like a pharmacist while you got a cushy remote

01:21:42.280 job where you make some small amount of money, probably not high, but at least look for

01:21:46.280 something where it's some kind of contribution.

01:21:48.280 If it's not her working, her, her parents better be giving her something.

01:21:52.280 Grandpa better come in and say, here's 250,000 for the down payment on the house.

01:21:55.280 It's in both of your names, something like that.

01:21:58.280 But that's, that's what I noticed.

01:22:01.280 And I mean, I told you about my friend, you know, he's getting married.

01:22:06.280 He just had a son and she's a nurse.

01:22:08.280 He, she makes more than him.

01:22:10.280 And I'm just like, if it ever goes south, I know exactly what you got to do.

01:22:14.280 This is, you're in a good situation.

01:22:16.280 I've just read, just to, you know, say it again, I've read too many divorce judgments,

01:22:21.280 too many child support orders where I just like, I know it's men.

01:22:27.280 We always make fun of women for giving away the milk and you know, why buy the cow?

01:22:31.280 But men do that with, with marriage a lot.

01:22:33.280 Even with child support, you, we give it away without getting anything in return.

01:22:38.280 So I think that the number one thing to focus on is negotiating, not being afraid to pay attention to that kind of stuff.

01:22:45.280 And I think the way it's going, it's either going to be people avoiding marriage or it's almost like saying, okay, look, we're MGTOW.

01:22:52.280 We're on a marriage strike, but this is the deal I'm willing to take.

01:22:55.280 Right.

01:22:56.280 And I would love to see that kind of mindset become pervasive.

01:23:01.280 Now, you know, and I'll be honest, technology is an X factor.

01:23:04.280 We have IVF.

01:23:05.280 We're in, we got AI coming, dating apps.

01:23:08.280 We're in a new world that we've never seen before.

01:23:11.280 I just think that understanding some past wisdom can help us make better informed decisions,

01:23:16.280 especially families with money and wealth.

01:23:19.280 Too many times you see somebody start to gain wealth and money and they don't know how to parlay that basically.

01:23:24.280 And that's how they get screwed.

01:23:26.280 And, you know, the NFL guy gets with an OnlyFans person.

01:23:29.280 Right.

01:23:30.280 That's new money.

01:23:31.280 I have a suspicion that old money are still practicing some form of dowry just very silently or almost even.

01:23:37.280 I've heard men say that they won't date women with nothing to lose.

01:23:41.280 Yeah.

01:23:42.280 I've heard, like, I knew a guy that was a pretty high earner and that's what he told me.

01:23:46.280 Like, he does not mess with women with nothing to lose.

01:23:49.280 Yeah.

01:23:50.280 You can't.

01:23:51.280 I mean, at best for a short term engagement, at worst, okay, you're not married.

01:23:56.280 You get screwed.

01:23:57.280 You pay the child support.

01:23:58.280 It sucks.

01:23:59.280 But at least you're not also paying alimony and losing half your retirement and losing your property.

01:24:03.280 And are you encouraging men to get to put women?

01:24:07.280 We have a contributor to the channel.

01:24:09.280 You might have heard of Doug MPA.

01:24:11.280 Oh, he's the private investigator?

01:24:13.280 No.

01:24:14.280 Oh, sorry.

01:24:15.280 That's Russ.

01:24:16.280 Yeah, yeah.

01:24:17.280 Okay.

01:24:18.280 I like Russ.

01:24:19.280 Yeah, he's good too.

01:24:20.280 Yeah.

01:24:21.280 I feel responsible for him because I was the one who was telling him.

01:24:24.280 I saw a post of his on Twitter and I was telling him to post.

01:24:27.280 Okay.

01:24:28.280 I watch all of his stuff.

01:24:29.280 These are great stories.

01:24:30.280 So I was the one who was telling him before anyone even knew him.

01:24:34.280 Yeah.

01:24:35.280 I think that's how I found him was from you posting him.

01:24:37.280 Yeah, yeah.

01:24:38.280 Because I just thought the stories are good.

01:24:40.280 But sorry, Doug MPA is a contributor.

01:24:43.280 Uh-huh.

01:24:44.280 And he like calls into the show a lot or he like works with us.

01:24:48.280 And he says that men should put more women on alimony and child support.

01:24:52.280 Yeah.

01:24:53.280 You can't wait to see it.

01:24:54.280 Yeah.

01:24:55.280 On my stream I was reading an article about it and it was about these high powered women

01:24:59.280 in DC and a lot of them experiencing alimony and just their experiences with that and how

01:25:04.280 angry they were and all that kind of stuff.

01:25:06.280 And if there is an uptick in that, it's going.

01:25:08.280 I think when it comes, marriage is just essentially a very different negotiation than seducing

01:25:13.280 a woman and getting laid or whatever.

01:25:15.280 Yeah.

01:25:16.280 It's different.

01:25:17.280 It's something that's completely different.

01:25:18.280 And if you're going to sit here and say, oh, it's all about love and two people just

01:25:22.280 got to love each other.

01:25:23.280 I'm sorry.

01:25:24.280 It's not going to work.

01:25:25.280 It hasn't worked.

01:25:26.280 It's proven itself to be a disaster.

01:25:27.280 I'm not saying there's no room for love, but love can't be front and center.

01:25:32.280 There has to be these other obligations.

01:25:34.280 And, you know, you have to look at it and say, man, I mean, I'm looking at you and she's

01:25:39.280 got debt or whatever, or you don't got that good of a job or something.

01:25:43.280 How's this supposed to work?

01:25:44.280 What are you going?

01:25:45.280 How is it?

01:25:46.280 You got to put the pressure back on them a little bit.

01:25:48.280 And she wants to be a stay at home wife.

01:25:50.280 Okay.

01:25:51.280 Well get your father on the phone, get your grandpa on the phone.

01:25:54.280 Let me talk to grandma.

01:25:55.280 Marriage is also delayed too.

01:25:57.280 So you have a decade to save what we spend.

01:26:00.280 Oh my God.

01:26:01.280 That's such a good point.

01:26:02.280 I've thought about this because it's like, okay, from 18 to 28 or 30, you've been doing

01:26:07.280 something.

01:26:08.280 You're telling me you want to get married now and you haven't even saved 60 grand on the

01:26:12.280 side.

01:26:13.280 Like what have you been doing this whole time?

01:26:15.280 So then I'm supposed to have, you know, a hundred K sitting here so we can put it in

01:26:18.280 the house or whatever.

01:26:19.280 What have you been doing?

01:26:20.280 And if they don't have a good answer for that, it's just, you're not ready for marriage.

01:26:24.280 I'm sorry.

01:26:25.280 You need to go back and figure this out.

01:26:27.280 Yeah.

01:26:28.280 I don't know.

01:26:29.280 It's crazy.

01:26:30.280 Cause I did a show on like the average amount of debt women have.

01:26:33.280 Yeah.

01:26:34.280 I wish I could remember off the top of my head, but I think if she got a master's degree,

01:26:41.280 it's like 180.

01:26:42.280 Oh yeah.

01:26:43.280 Something like that.

01:26:44.280 Yeah.

01:26:45.280 That's the other thing too.

01:26:46.280 And then what they'll say is women will say that, oh, well men just aren't good enough

01:26:49.280 anymore out here.

01:26:50.280 We can't find suitable men, but it's like, no, you're not supposed to be mad at the men.

01:26:54.280 That's, that's not even related to you.

01:26:56.280 Be mad at the people in your family for not giving you a dowry.

01:26:59.280 Say, why didn't you save up for my marriage?

01:27:01.280 Yeah.

01:27:02.280 They might say I did.

01:27:03.280 You blew it all at college.

01:27:04.280 I don't know, but it's not some stranger guy's fault that you're having trouble with

01:27:08.280 marriage.

01:27:09.280 It's whatever you guys are doing here in this project we call family, you know, so figure it

01:27:14.280 out.

01:27:15.280 College used to be for women to meet.

01:27:16.280 Like it used to be, they used to say it was to get your MRS degree.

01:27:19.280 Uh-huh.

01:27:20.280 A Mrs.

01:27:21.280 Yeah.

01:27:22.280 So women would go to school.

01:27:23.280 Yeah.

01:27:24.280 They'd go meet.

01:27:25.280 Yeah.

01:27:26.280 And that would kind of be a class.

01:27:27.280 Yeah.

01:27:28.280 But now, I mean, they just give loans out to everybody.

01:27:30.280 So, you know, like if you met your husband at heart before they subsidized education.

01:27:34.280 Yeah.

01:27:35.280 Your husband at Harvard, you're probably at the same class or the community college.

01:27:38.280 Yeah.

01:27:39.280 Yeah.

01:27:40.280 But now they subsidized education.

01:27:41.280 So anyone can go.

01:27:42.280 Yeah.

01:27:43.280 You can't afford.

01:27:44.280 That's part of it too.

01:27:45.280 Just from moving from traditional dowry stuff.

01:27:47.280 It's just, once people start going to college, they're away from their parents and they start

01:27:52.280 meeting each other that way.

01:27:53.280 Then it's like, you know, let's not move back in home.

01:27:55.280 Let's get an apartment.

01:27:56.280 Rent was 500 bucks a month back then.

01:27:58.280 Good times.

01:27:59.280 Yeah.

01:28:00.280 We can live out our, basically love really needs to be financed and people just can't

01:28:04.280 finance love anymore.

01:28:05.280 That's a good title for this.

01:28:06.280 Love should be financed.

01:28:07.280 Yeah.

01:28:08.280 And now the dads are going to pay for it.

01:28:09.280 Poor father.

01:28:10.280 Yeah.

01:28:11.280 Poor dads.

01:28:12.280 I mean, it's like, you got this guy, he's divorced.

01:28:13.280 He's living on the other side of the railroad tracks now with nothing.

01:28:14.280 And the daughters have been brainwashed that he's this bad guy.

01:28:15.280 And then they're going to go and say, dad, give me some money.

01:28:16.280 So what do you foresee for the future?

01:28:27.280 Like what do you think is going to happen in the next, we come back in 10 years.

01:28:34.280 Where are we going to be at?

01:28:35.280 Oh, that's a good question.

01:28:36.280 You know, at first I was looking at, like, I don't think the current president or any,

01:28:43.280 or any, you know, presidency is going to make any significant legal changes in that regard.

01:28:48.060 Birth rate will probably keep going down. I do like to be positive and think that they are viewing

01:28:54.180 men as a more of a unified voting bloc. So, you know, you've seen articles coming out now to where,

01:29:01.040 you know, people on the left, the Democrats are trying, how do we appeal to men? How do they get

01:29:04.580 them back over here? I'm hoping that, listen, if Democrats want to put out a platform that

01:29:09.980 offers men something, they might be more likely to take it if TradCons are giving them nothing.

01:29:14.960 I think we'll see a kind of catering, not maybe a catering, but a kind of appeal to men.

01:29:19.640 That's what I'd love to see in 10 years. But to be honest, it does still look like kind of a disaster.

01:29:26.320 So I think you got to be very smart how you're negotiating things out here and where you're

01:29:31.200 putting stuff down. That's what I like about this content is even though, like, we can't really

01:29:36.520 help what happens to society. And I'm just not one of those YouTubers that's going to sell hope.

01:29:41.500 Yeah, I know. Same here. I got to predict where I see this going. But it's great because like the

01:29:48.860 stuff you offer to men, you can at least give them a plan. Yeah. And they can, like, you can save for

01:29:54.400 if that ever happens. Yeah. That's what I'd like to think. I mean, you know, the child support's one

01:29:59.740 thing, but the dowry stuff is kind of like, I just kind of ended up, I know it sounds like it's kind

01:30:05.460 of out of left field. It really is. It was for me. But I feel like that is important to help men

01:30:09.960 kind of cast off the gaslighting that we have of this whole 100% protect and provide all of the time

01:30:16.460 pedestalization and they make sourdough bread at home. We need to understand what was actually

01:30:20.720 happening. So I look at that, you know, I feel like I'm lucky to have remembered to look into the

01:30:27.440 stuff. It was almost by accident. Right. So, you know, I hope offering that to the space can do something

01:30:34.520 to men's sort of collective memory and consciousness. And ultimately, I don't ever think

01:30:39.780 we're going back. I think whoever says we're going back and all you got to do is just get

01:30:43.780 married and do that is a pipe dream they're selling. They're delusional. I think we live

01:30:49.220 in a world where we have new technologies like never before birth control, dating apps, the

01:30:55.400 internet, you know, transportation like it's nobody's business. So we have to contend with

01:31:01.380 those things. I think ultimately some people will figure it out. I think for guys, it's

01:31:06.240 incredibly challenging. For me, you know, I think it's okay to be realistic and come to

01:31:11.660 terms with I may or may not ever have a family and do good where you can. And if you find a

01:31:17.400 deal that's worth taking, maybe take the deal. So that's, you know.

01:31:21.180 Do you think that men should fight for their kids in court? Like, because I've interviewed

01:31:25.500 so many men. And it's interesting because a lot of them spent a ton of money fighting

01:31:32.260 for their children and it just went to waste and didn't get them anyways. I found a decent

01:31:37.860 amount of guys that represented themselves in one. I don't, I don't know, like I randomly

01:31:43.500 sat by a guy on a plane who told me his divorce story and he, he said his lawyer was arguing

01:31:48.900 so bad. He hired him on the spot and just, I'm not surprised. Yeah. And so I'm just curious from

01:31:54.220 your point of view, like, would you recommend men represent themselves? Yeah. Would you recommend

01:31:59.080 they hire a lawyer? It's so funny that you asked that. I mean, let me tell you, working in child

01:32:04.020 support, I've met a lot of bad attorneys. A lot of attorneys are so bad at their jobs. They just want

01:32:09.040 to do cookie cutter stuff. I'll look at a case and know what's going to happen. And the attorney's

01:32:15.340 just kind of stringing them on. I do think there's good attorneys out there, depending on this. I've

01:32:20.540 seen, you know, I used to call them happy meal divorces versus like the Ferrari of divorces.

01:32:26.460 Most 90% of people are going to get this sort of happy meal cookie cutter divorce. And that's just

01:32:30.860 what it's going to be. And you're going to get run over from the bulldozer and it's going to suck.

01:32:34.740 I would say now fighting on your own for custody is worth doing because it'll be a heck of a lot

01:32:39.760 cheaper. And, you know, I, from some of the folks I've spoke to and coworkers too, that I've seen a

01:32:48.540 lot of this stuff or went through their own custody stuff, they say, you know, you can do it on your

01:32:52.360 own. It's worth trying. Father X is a guy I like to follow on Twitter. He has a YouTube channel and

01:32:57.380 he documented his whole custody battle and he gives all these strategies for men. And he talks about

01:33:03.240 how the attorney was basically not that great either. You know, there's, there's a lot of mistakes.

01:33:08.600 I think men do men don't speak up when they're in court. You should go in there and ask. I had a

01:33:12.820 lot of guys that come out even from child support course and they're like, what about this? What

01:33:15.700 about that? And I'm like, you were just in the court, you know, and then I'm waiting for him

01:33:18.640 after to tell him what's going to happen. You should have said that to him, you know, but I don't

01:33:23.520 think men should, if you're in a really crappy situation, it's kind of a pirate victory. And I

01:33:30.540 understand the wash your hands of them and then let them come back to you later. I think that's easier said

01:33:36.360 than done. I mean, it's probably pretty tough. That's the thing that sucks. You know, there's

01:33:39.740 this, to be realistic, there's this emotional thing. So I know a lot of men are going to want

01:33:43.380 to fight for their kids. Um, I like personally, personally, if it was me, I would go in there

01:33:49.800 and try to fight with them without an attorney. That's just me from what I saw. Not that there's

01:33:53.860 bad attorney. I've seen some attorneys pull magic. Yeah, exactly. That's where it really comes

01:33:59.920 from. Cause if you're already paying child support, God forbid you're paying alimony too,

01:34:03.320 cause you got married and you're paying for the bills, you know, you're responsible for so many

01:34:07.100 other things. Um, you're not going to have any money to hire the attorney anyways. And then it's

01:34:11.800 harder to fight for custody cause you can't afford your own place. That's going to be a, you got to

01:34:15.700 go to court and say, Hey, look, I can have my kids over here and they can be in this place and it's

01:34:19.280 going to be a good place for them. So, you know, I think if you're in a situation where you're with

01:34:24.100 somebody and you park one over here, you're not married. Um, you know, and it ends up going bad fighting

01:34:32.320 for custody, I think is a good idea there to do that. Uh, especially if they got their own,

01:34:37.260 they're working and you're working. I think that makes sense to do that. I think if you're in a

01:34:41.820 marriage and you got falsely, you know, a false abuse claim on you and you're, you're getting

01:34:45.900 screwed, it's probably going to not be worth it anyways. Cause you probably won't be able to afford

01:34:50.260 it. Maybe just, you know what I mean? But again, easier said than done. I know every dad out there

01:34:55.840 is probably gonna wake up in the middle of the night thinking, where's my kid at? You know what I mean?

01:34:59.360 So, um, I would, I would like to think, you know, but it's, it's easy for me to say is not having

01:35:05.100 gone through it. This is just from what I've seen. I mean, I'm asking your point of view. Yeah. That's

01:35:09.860 just from my point of view as having read custody orders and things. I saw a custody order that was

01:35:14.260 so stupid. The judge literally said that the, the husband had basically the mom had full control over

01:35:21.140 the kid's haircut. That one really annoyed me. I was like, first of all, what kind of haircuts is dad

01:35:26.160 giving to where this is how to be filed at the superior court. And how stupid is this? You're

01:35:31.420 a dad and I can't even figure out what haircut he's going to get. And you can't trust me with that.

01:35:36.260 Yeah. You're just spiteful. Yeah. I bet, I bet the dad. Haircuts to be decided by mom. You know what?

01:35:42.860 I bet the dad had a haircut he really liked. Yeah. Or wanted. And it made him happy. Yeah. Yeah. And she

01:35:49.660 had to take it away. It was like, yeah, one of those newer, nice haircuts. Yeah. I doubt she really

01:35:54.320 cared. It was just, she wanted to take something away. Yeah, exactly. I couldn't, I mean, unless he,

01:35:59.280 the kid was coming home with clown hair or something, I don't know what, what he could have

01:36:03.880 been doing. But yeah, you see stupid stuff like that in there. So. Well, thanks so much for coming

01:36:09.000 on. No worries. It was a pleasure. This is great. I learned so much. Yeah. Also, he gave a 30 minute

01:36:15.160 video behind the paywall where you actually gave them the tips and tricks. Oh yeah. On how to best

01:36:22.660 protect yourself if you didn't choose to have kids. Yep. So check it out. I went pretty

01:36:27.640 deep into a lot of stuff. Maybe some stuff I should have thought twice about saying.

01:36:31.920 Yeah. Well, thanks so much for coming on. No worries. We'll put the link to your channel

01:36:35.960 in the description. But do you want to shout it out anyway? Yeah, sure. This is Shah. S-H-A-H.

01:36:41.620 This is Shah. Thanks so much for coming on. Make sure you go subscribe, guys. He is the

01:36:47.260 newest, you know, skyrocketing channel in this space. I appreciate that.

01:36:53.240 Thanks for watching, guys. Like the video. Please subscribe to the channel and we'll see

01:36:56.860 you next time. Bye-bye.

Pearl - May 30, 2025

Child Support Enforcer Reveals The Truth About Marriage No One Is Telling Men! w⧸ @thisisshah

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