Pearl - Is Marriage In 2025 Still Worth It？

00:00:00.000 When I look with the people I grew up around, I mean, most of the, most of the women were nagging

00:00:05.260 like wives. Okay. So for those of you that don't know, Andrew Wilson and coach Greg Adams debated.

00:00:12.640 Now I've had both of these guys on my show. I'm a big fan of both of them. Um, Andrew Wilson is

00:00:18.180 a 304 destroyer. He goes on whatever podcast and he just cooks these 304s daily. Now CGA has a

00:00:26.380 channel. Um, I think he's got like half a million subscribers. I don't know. He's got some

00:00:30.600 subscribers and, um, he has been talking about men's rights and men's issues, um, and red pill

00:00:36.920 concepts for years. He, I would say he's one of the most original like content creators in the space.

00:00:41.640 He's a lot of original concepts. I I've learned a lot from him. Um, I'm guessing I'm going to lean

00:00:47.980 more towards CGA on this debate, but we'll see who, you know, who makes more valid points and it's on,

00:00:56.160 um, digital social hour, that podcast. So let's shoot. Like what was the coach?

00:01:02.880 The community of America, you know, most of the better communities that have safety,

00:01:06.980 um, good children, good schools are typically centered around marriage. However, marriage

00:01:12.880 has not progressed to the point where men could be, let me go back a little bit.

00:01:17.900 Awesome. Yeah. Let me go check for that and soda. Yeah. You want anything, Greg? No, no,

00:01:22.940 no tequila for me. You know, when women debate, it's always like, I feel, I feel, I feel when men

00:01:30.100 debate, they have notes. They're ready to go. You think it's a setup? Who do you think is getting

00:01:35.440 set up? I don't think so. I think these are both equally matched like people in terms of like their

00:01:42.180 knowledge, um, has not progressed to the point where men could keep some delays. We got Andrew

00:01:48.980 here versus coach Greg Adams, AKA the free agent lifestyle. We're going to talk about today is

00:01:53.720 marriage worth it for men in the West. So let's get into some opening statements. Who wants to start

00:01:57.560 off? Yeah, man. Marriage is a great institution. Um, it was an institution that built the community

00:02:03.020 of America. Um, most of the better communities that have safety, um, good children, good schools

00:02:09.420 are typically centered around marriage. However, marriage has not progressed to the point where men

00:02:14.440 could be safe legally. And a lot of men have experienced tremendous damage, collateral damage

00:02:21.540 as a result. And it has led to broken families, a lot of broken hearts simply because the laws

00:02:27.000 are not positioned to benefit both people in a divorce. Therefore you have no fault divorce.

00:02:35.320 You have, um, opportunities for women to use the courts against men. And as a result, men have seen

00:02:41.900 one, two, and three generations of men getting harmed, their grandfathers, their fathers, their uncles,

00:02:48.280 their brothers getting harmed by this. So generation Z men are not positioning themselves for a positive

00:02:54.940 marriage. So at this particular point, if someone that asked me, would I recommend marriage for them

00:03:01.260 and they were in a certain position in life, they weren't established? I would say, no, there's no

00:03:07.160 benefit for the person to get married today. Got it. Your response, Andrew? Uh, yeah, I didn't hear any,

00:03:13.020 uh, anti-marriage arguments. I heard anti-divorce arguments. So, uh, I'm with you on divorce a hundred

00:03:21.120 percent stream over and agree, but it's good thing that the topic isn't on divorce. It's on marriage.

00:03:27.540 And it seems like you agree with my proposition then. And the proposition is that marriage quote

00:03:32.720 is a great institution. Yep. And that right now your concern is that men can't be safe in marriage,

00:03:38.980 but that's not actually what you're saying. You're not saying men can't be safe in marriage. They can.

00:03:43.180 You're saying that they may not be safe in divorce. So I have a counter proposition for you.

00:03:48.820 My counter proposition is what if it's the case that, uh, you can use religious marriage

00:03:55.160 institutions without the state. And then we add the ecclesiastical structure of the marriage.

00:04:00.820 That's what always kept them together anyway, before the state was ever involved. So what if

00:04:04.720 instead we use the ecclesiastical church, the structure of the, uh, the old churches,

00:04:09.780 that would be Catholicism and Orthodoxy where you see the. Okay. So I am going to have a different

00:04:16.120 position than Andrew on this. Um, I grew up, then I just have to go off of my experience. Okay.

00:04:22.700 And I grew up in a pretty Catholic area. I have cousins that were really, really Catholic and I

00:04:29.480 do not see that as a deterrent to terrible marriages and divorce. Um, I mean, even if I

00:04:36.720 look at like my grandmother and her friends, um, I'm not trying to talk trash on them, but I don't

00:04:43.600 really like, I remember when I was a kid, um, and spending time with my grandma and her friends.

00:04:49.440 And I remember thinking that they sounded like 18 year olds and I'm just not sure. I think they

00:04:54.940 had more children, but I'm really not even under the impression that that generation was very

00:05:00.860 different. I think they just had more kids cause they kind of had to, I mean, my grandma, like they

00:05:04.880 lived on a farm. So, um, yeah. The lowest divorce rates because the community puts pressure on the

00:05:12.380 women to act right. That's what they do right now. The state applies no pressure on women to act

00:05:17.760 right. Right. You can just go and file whatever you want, get a divorce and go be banging the

00:05:22.260 neighbor by the next night. We totally agree on that. But to say that we should abandon

00:05:27.200 marriage, uh, is silly. It seems like, uh, you're completely pro marriage. You're just

00:05:32.480 anti-divorce. So why wouldn't you just throw your weight behind institutions where the divorce rate

00:05:37.400 is the least and you have an ecclesiastical structure, which can be appealed to, to assist

00:05:42.120 with that. That's what makes no sense to me. My response to that is if, if we're fifths,

00:05:48.040 we'd be all drunk. All right. So that's a scenario that just isn't present. Can you explain the

00:05:53.140 analogy for me? Yeah. Um, again, I'm trying to be, I want to be respectful. I really respect

00:05:59.700 both of them. So I'm trying to, I've tried to be respectful when I go about this. Um, as

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00:07:44.440 Again, what they're going to do and a lot of people try to do is they want to dictate your reality for

00:07:50.340 you. So they'll say you could go to this church, you'd go to these studies, you'd go to this, this,

00:07:56.200 and this, and therefore you're going to mitigate the risk on these things. And again, I really do

00:08:03.980 think that the best way to come to conclusions is what you see with your eyes, you know, because

00:08:09.580 you're going to be easily manipulated if anybody can put a study or data in front of you.

00:08:15.840 And they say that's reality, not, you know, a clip on TV. That's your reality, not what you see with

00:08:21.100 your eyes. And again, um, we could talk about the flaws and, and the data I think Andrew's going to

00:08:29.560 use, but regardless of that, you know, when you say there's like religious women, um, and religious

00:08:36.520 institutions, I, I kind of have the privilege of growing up in a pretty Catholic area. And I can

00:08:42.460 tell you, it's no different. I, you know, I was one of 10 kids. I'm from a family that I would say

00:08:47.580 is more on paper traditional than a lot of places. Um, you know, my parents were together

00:08:54.240 30 years, but when I look with the people I grew up around, I mean, most of the, uh, most

00:09:00.680 of the women were nagging, like bitching wives. So, uh, yeah, let me, and I'll go into, I think

00:09:07.860 I'll react to one of my old videos because do you know what? I I'm just not here. I'll keep

00:09:15.220 going. Well, if we use, if it's not a matter of, if it's a matter of when, if we say, if we have a

00:09:22.040 situation where this is present, then this would work. Well, that makes sense. If we had that,

00:09:28.460 we do have work right now. Well, it doesn't necessarily work because, and I'm going to tell

00:09:32.220 you why, because a woman can go to a divorce attorney and they can simply just say, Hey,

00:09:36.980 listen, it was a off the cuff off the state divorce, but you got married within a certain state

00:09:43.020 or she filed in a certain state. So therefore the divorce goes on. Absolutely. Yes. I've,

00:09:48.240 I've been to with the divorce attorneys and what they'll tell you is, Hey, listen,

00:09:52.400 you can get married in a ritual. You can get married in the orthodoxy. You can get married

00:09:56.780 off record, but if she files and that woman is hell bent on saying we got married, I don't care

00:10:03.440 if it was a ceremony where we walked on coals with our feet bare, that's considered a marriage.

00:10:08.920 You also have common law. You have a lot of other ways for that woman to establish

00:10:12.460 marriage. How does your way eliminate common law? I don't have any way to eliminate common

00:10:16.680 law. What I have is a way for men to avoid being used. No, the argument's not silly. So

00:10:22.180 here's what you have. You have a, if proposition, which doesn't exist for most men, most men aren't

00:10:27.820 religious. Most men aren't. Yeah. Most men aren't going to want to do like, uh, I would say

00:10:34.360 most men in my experience have not had overly positive experiences with religious organizations.

00:10:41.020 Um, so I don't think most men are wanting to be overly religious. Like what percent of Gen Z even

00:10:50.520 attends church? Um, and I think the challenge is, let's see, men attend church, say weekly. Uh, I, I,

00:11:05.240 I, I understand where Andrew's coming from because I used to kind of, oh, that's actually higher than

00:11:11.160 I thought. 46 of Gen Z men report attending church the past week. Oh, well, good job, Gen Z. What about

00:11:19.620 her context that is higher? It's actually higher than I thought. Here, here, here. Um, you know,

00:11:26.800 Andrew's kind of talking about idealistic. Like, so he's saying the world would be better. We,

00:11:32.020 it should be this way. And CGA is talking about what is, and this was kind of a problem. When I

00:11:38.280 first got into the red pill, I came from a pretty religious background. So I think I had a lot of

00:11:43.540 those similar talking points. Right. And it's kind of goes back to when I used to say women shouldn't

00:11:48.980 vote. Well, it doesn't matter what women should or shouldn't do. Women shouldn't be whores. Well,

00:11:54.500 we are, we do vote. So like, if you have to make a decision today, you have to make a decision with

00:12:02.100 the information that we do vote. And I kind of go back to like the business example of your business

00:12:08.220 owner. And you say, when is this going to get done? Like, when is this religious theocracy going

00:12:12.900 to get done? And you, the person you're talking to says, well, maybe someday in our lifetime. And

00:12:19.100 you're like, well, okay, well, I have to hire, I have to fire today. I have to, you know, make

00:12:23.940 decisions today. And what you get is the trad cons. Not that I think Andrew's completely in that realm,

00:12:31.040 but they kind of say, well, this is how it should be. And I found in my experience, those are kind of

00:12:39.660 useless conversations. You could argue they maybe move the needle. Like I think women not voting is

00:12:45.660 more mainstream. Since I did it, you could argue maybe there's repercussions down the line.

00:12:52.340 But that's still a different conversation than like predicting. And what is, you know,

00:12:57.820 looking for to be under a religious orthodoxy. So it doesn't apply. So you're taking a moral standard

00:13:04.640 or a religious standard to apply to people who aren't under that veil. So let's start with a

00:13:09.280 couple of things you said, which are fundamentally untrue. Most men are religious, in fact, including in this

00:13:14.820 country, most of them, not some of them, but they're not religious. Hang on, hang on. I didn't

00:13:18.620 interrupt. I didn't interrupt. I understand. But you're, let me just take that point. Most aren't under

00:13:23.240 your religion. Okay. We can agree with that. So here's the thing. Yeah, actually, that's a better

00:13:28.680 question. What percent of Gen Z men are Catholic and Orthodox? And I have to say, I don't really see a

00:13:40.820 difference in the behavior of Orthodox and Catholic. You know, I think they're just as simpy. I really

00:13:47.860 don't. I know they try to sell you on this. I can only go based on what I have seen. Okay, let's go

00:13:55.920 back to here. But Catholicism and Orthodoxy is growing rapidly. And if it's the case that the

00:14:00.380 ecclesiastical structure is already there, which it is, right? If you're going to cohabitate with a

00:14:05.960 woman, the thing that you're offering right now is common law marriage anyway, if there's

00:14:10.780 cohabitation at all, you're not protecting anybody. I don't think CGA, I think he says to stay away from

00:14:16.900 women. I think he knows that most men will enter some sort of long-term relationship, but I don't

00:14:23.260 think he suggests it. At least under my model, it gives an ecclesiastical structure that's designed

00:14:29.480 to prevent divorce by applying community pressure. That was the way it was always done. Apply the

00:14:34.900 application of community pressure within the confines of the woman's social circle.

00:14:40.040 Right now, do you agree with me, for instance, that many divorces happen because women like to

00:14:44.480 yap? So you get a freshly divorced woman and she's free. You go, girl, girl power. And she starts

00:14:51.040 talking to her little friends and she starts telling them how liberating it is and how great

00:14:54.840 it is and this and that. And this is why when women have divorced friends, their likelihood of

00:14:58.960 divorce actually rapidly increases. It's for this reason. I agree with that. I agree.

00:15:03.440 Divorce is contagious. So if it's the case that the social contagion is eliminated because now we

00:15:08.260 have an ecclesiastical structure, an ecclesiastical authority, which won't grant it because you get

00:15:12.540 ostracized from that social group through excommunication, for instance, or not being

00:15:17.880 able to participate anymore with that community. I don't see that as a deterrent because there's

00:15:23.580 always going to be women that are still like there's always going to be the simps and the women

00:15:27.680 that still deal with those women, like pretty much always. I mean, you could argue that it could

00:15:35.840 happen, but how long have they been orthodox? Because I don't know. I think you have a different

00:15:42.900 perspective when you've seen a religion over like a 10 to 20 year period, because a lot of the people

00:15:49.380 that you didn't think would get divorced, they end up getting divorced. Yeah. So marriage has no

00:15:57.580 benefit to any man. That's an application of a serious and significant social pressure,

00:16:01.920 which can do the very thing you want. Bring back that great institution absent the state,

00:16:07.600 and it avoids this whole problem of common law marriage. Because if it's the case that you can be

00:16:13.100 common law married anyway, inside of a state, and they can, you know, get grounds for divorce on

00:16:19.200 that anyway, then we actually need to have some social pressures to prevent them from doing that.

00:16:24.000 So it sounds like we agree marriage is awesome for men. Divorce is terrible for them. So it seems

00:16:31.260 like we should be attacking the divorce structure here. And it doesn't seem like you actually have

00:16:35.200 anything to do that, other than just avoid the thing that's great for you. Because this other bad

00:16:41.440 side effect could happen. I get I think it's maybe Andrew does, but I don't think he does one on one

00:16:47.000 coaching. So you kind of have to have a different perspective when because again, like if it's

00:16:56.760 make your wife religious, it's like, I don't know, hold on, I'm gonna listen more before I talk

00:17:04.760 women, right? Thank you for the birthday wishes. Sure. So why don't we cigarettes? So why don't we

00:17:10.040 attack the bad side effect when we have the mechanism to do it's not if we can do it now?

00:17:14.280 Okay, so like smoking cigarettes is the same analogy you're saying, okay, here, cigarettes in

00:17:18.880 this situation, we obviously know it has negative side effects. So you would avoid it. Now, here's

00:17:23.800 the issue that I have with it. It sounds great on paper. But we can't travel to the land of make

00:17:29.120 believe. It sounds great. The majority of people probably wouldn't do it. And if you ask a guy,

00:17:34.840 which this is an important part, they're not even prepared to even talk about that. They don't even

00:17:39.440 know what the worst laws are. So you're asking. Okay, Andrew doesn't do coaching. He does put a

00:17:47.640 $15 paywall behind his debates. Okay, blah, blah, blah. We're not trying to roast him. So but the

00:17:53.440 okay, and the reason I mentioned this is you kind of get in a different mindset. So I'll give you an

00:17:57.420 example. There was an e-girl, she's gonna she watches this. So she's gonna know she was. I saw her

00:18:02.440 do. I saw her do a reaction that said you should be loyal to men during the talking stage. And I

00:18:09.560 think that sounds really good. But I said, Well, it depends how long have they been talking? How often

00:18:16.440 is he seeing you? Because I've seen women that are single because they're loyal to men that are never

00:18:20.920 going to date them. So you know, there. I'm like, if he's seeing you once a month, no, don't be loyal

00:18:31.560 to him going more days. I'm sorry. I'm just being honest. Like, you can't put all your eggs in that

00:18:37.880 basket. Maybe if he ups it later. Okay, no, don't know. No slander of Andrew or CGA. This is,

00:18:45.320 this is me. We're reacting to the debate. We attack ideas, not people.

Pearl - November 05, 2025

Is Marriage In 2025 Still Worth It？

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