Pearl - March 20, 2026Jillean Michaels Vs. Fat Women
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 6 minutes
Words per minute
161.64009
Harmful content
Misogyny
49
sentences flagged
Toxicity
76
sentences flagged
Hate speech
32
sentences flagged
Summary
Jillian Michaels is joined by 20 other body positivity activists to debate whether or not fat people should be allowed to be healthy. Jillian and her team argue that fat people are lazy, fatphobic, and obsessed with unrealistic beauty standards.
Transcript
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what is up guys welcome to another episode of pearl daily here on the audacity network
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thank you guys so much for tuning in if anyone cares i'm on book three of piano
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i know i know you guys are on the edge of your seats just wondering how far have you made it
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Um, but you know, I'm, I'm here to, you know, let you guys know. I still haven't finished book
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three of guitar. We're like doing the review. It's killing me. It's killing me. All right,
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guys, you got to bear with me. I'm a little bit sick today. My throat is just, I don't know what
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it is. But anyways, okay. So today we are going to be talking about fat people. Just so you guys
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know, I used to be 210 pounds. And it's actually changed my life losing that weight. And I've
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always felt like weight is my Achilles heel in life. Like some people struggle with drugs.
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Some people struggle with like taking dick every weekend, you know, like a different dick. You
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know i mean that's their struggle in life um my struggle has been that i have it in me to be a
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500 pound i i could look like this woman i really have it in me um so when these fat people
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talk i don't have a ton of sympathy uh because i have it in me to be an obese woman i really do
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fatties are gonna eat you know you can't compete
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fatties are gonna eat you know you can't compete
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i think you should be under 30 body fat to call into the show
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if you don't know your fat body fat percentage it's probably too high
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it's probably too high okay so today we're reacting they've asked me to do this and maybe
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one day i will but it's just i almost feel like arguing with somebody like people this dumb
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is like insulting to my intelligence and it's not that i think i'm that intelligent i just think
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these people are that dumb you know so body positivity has given me you have to like love
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yourself you have to invite love into the space how by looking at yourself in the mirror and
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telling yourself i'm beautiful it's not gonna work kid it does it's an snl skit are americans
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fat phobic and obsessed with unrealistic beauty standards or has the body positivity movement
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I'm John Rigolato, and today we're gonna have a debate
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Today, I am surrounded by 20 body positivity activists.
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is that obesity is not healthy and pretending it is puts lives at risk
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if you want to be the first debater get to the chair in three two one
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hi hi i'm edie nice to meet you i'm a dating disorder therapist i'm gonna do my best to
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not use the o word because i find it you're so stupid you can't even use a word without
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getting offended i mean that's a level of stupidity um i gotta give her props for sitting down with
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yeah the most exercise they've had in their lives is walking to that chair i know
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it um pretty offensive uh so i'm gonna use fat bodied as we talk okay um do you understand why
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people find it harmful and triggering it overweight and obese is literally just having
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too much body fat it has nothing to do with the quality of the person yeah i agree with you on
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that it it means you have a negative trait right and as someone that was overweight it meant i
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lacked discipline to stop eating right so are we going to debate the claim yeah i just wanted to
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gonna yeah i wanted to clarify though you're gonna pretend like i'm a three and you're my mommy
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telling me how to talk wow okay okay so the claim that you're saying do this they throw the first
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punch and then when she punches back they say oh okay and like then they get offended is that it
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is inherently unhealthy to live in a fat body it's inherent inherently unhealthy to have excess body
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fat yes okay where are you getting that information oh okay there are dozens of mrt trials
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that show having excess body fat dozens is causal not correlated no that's not true there is no
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disease that just fat-bodied people get i didn't say that i didn't say that but obesity lends itself
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to all-cause mortality across the board have you heard of something called adiposopathy mm-hmm okay
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so you know it means literally sick fat and you understand how it works okay tell me how it works
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so it's a additional layer of fat in the stomach area no that's not what it is
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it works as follows when we eat too much food that has energy oh my god now she's pissed because
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oh my gosh that we're not utilizing the body needs to put that energy somewhere right so
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it puts it in fat cells so it puts it in initially subcutaneous fat cells a little bit of visceral
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fat which is fat around the organs and at first you have hyperplasia which means we're recruiting
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new little fat cells which isn't necessarily a bad thing up to a point now the issue is that once you
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can no longer recruit more fat cells right you get hypertrophy so the fat cells start to expand
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and this is exceptionally dangerous because what ends up happening is the blood vessels
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get outpaced so the fat cells can't get oxygen and they start screaming literally and when they
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do they release cytokines inflammatory proteins right i want to of course you do want to pause
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because it's irrefutable you don't even know what i'm talking about so dillian okay first of all i
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I don't appreciate the way that you're speaking to me right now.
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And now you're pretending you didn't look stupid.
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Trying to understand the languaging and saying I was talking to a three-year-old
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I felt like I was talking to you very respectfully.
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You're talking to me very disrespectfully right now.
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Because you're telling me you understand it, but you don't understand it.
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I don't want to talk about, I am not, okay, here, I'm going to say this straight out. I am not a
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medical doctor. Okay. So I'm not going to talk to you about medical diagnosis because that's
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outside my scope. And I'm fully willing, Hey, I'm fully willing to be wrong. What I am here to talk
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to you about is the fact that people in fat bodies are irregularly harmed going into the medical
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system every single day because of the term, the O word. So that's what you want to litigate.
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yeah okay that's not the claim the idea that fat-bodied people are inherently unhealthy is
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i believe incorrect no i'm not wrong i'm not wrong okay so let me finish you can't look at
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let me finish let me finish my thought first you can't look at a person's body and tell whether
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william's like a smart person and for a woman i never call women smart but she's actually smart
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he says jillian's getting me hard right now she likes women you know but okay
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not their what tell their health status so fat is an endocrine you see what i mean it's like
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such a waste of her time arguing with such a stupid person you know and that's what you know
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my father explained this to me um like I would always be worried about the internet when I first
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got on it and my dad um he was like why do you care about their opinions and I think men inherently
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size each other up and say this person's retarded why do I care but women we don't know how retarded
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we are and we don't know how retarded other people are so an organ when it over grows it does wreak
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havoc in the body i didn't finish telling you what happens so when the oxygen can't get to those fat
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cells they'll die and they'll rupture and then the immune system starts dumping macrophages in to try
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to clean it up but do you know what's even more unhealthy is weight cycling and as we talked
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about earlier only except for your your your people who have if you want to talk about that
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clean we can the claim is so then what are you supposed to do though so let's say this person
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is in a fat body and they are inherently unhealthy right we're telling they're they're unhealthy
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because they're in this okay when i was fat i stopped drinking 250 i would get a 250 calorie
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um caramel latte and a lot of times i would get two
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now my latte drink the highest calorie one i get is 100 calories so i can have two
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and that's you know like and by the way most of mine are like 50 but
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if i if i'm really splurging i'll get a 100 calorie one
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and it's just like little replacements that over time add up you know that body what are
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they supposed to do will be more significantly more prone to all-cause mortality for me
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intentional weight loss fails 95 to 98 percent of the time so what is that either you would
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probably do this better than me because weight is not an individualistic pursuit you narrow it down
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this idea that it's causal like that they're just not trying hard enough but that is it's
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multi-factorial unquestionably a lot of people lose weight the problem right is that they put
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it back on are we in agreement yes okay great why do you think okay we gotta pause damn it all right
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i'm getting somewhere yeah voted out by the majority please return to your seat okay
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the fact that she has to convert like this is why i didn't want to do this um this show because i'm
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like why do i have to converse with these people i have done enough i have conversed with losers
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i did it for two years straight that's my contribution okay buddy for like as long as
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I can remember. And I've known very many fat people. And I don't think any of us, the people
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that I know, I can only speak to the people that I know. I don't think any of us are pretending
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that we're okay with it. What I want to say here is I live with autoimmune disorders. I live with
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chronic illness and I'm also neurodivergent. But a lot of the disorders are caused by eating too
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much like you know i noticed that my allergies aren't i mean they're still kind of bad but they
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got less bad the more i lost weight you know so let's see and this is the body positivity movement
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has made it so that i can tolerate this life i can find ways to thrive even still um but i'm not
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pretending that this doesn't bother me and by bother i mean that it doesn't hurt to carry my
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weight i'm willing to concede with you that carrying around extra weight is harder it is
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but i it must be done i don't know that i agree with you okay tell me more please well tell me
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why you think it must be done because i've worked really hard to not have have you can work hard and
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not work smart like i used to run um marathons in order to lose weight it's not men always find
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the smartest way to lose weight women not so much we find like the most unintelligent way to do it
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this what does that mean like you beat yourself up in the gym or something no i don't that's not fun
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no i'm not i'm just trying to understand what you mean what i mean is that um i grew up with
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with a number of undiagnosed conditions and even i can think back to like middle school and i
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couldn't keep up when the pe teacher would make us like run laps and i'm like this is physically
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aching me and i didn't understand why and i didn't understand why because i grew up with a single
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parent undocumented single parent we were problem is you probably are lacking life skills a lot of
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us are the skill of cooking and not eating too much so and cleaning up after yourself
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we're bound to the medical system that we had access to i've done what i needed to do
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a number of times to try to lose weight but not enough i've done done i've worked at i've
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worked out at the gym i've tried to do pilates i even yoga even yoga hurts me how long have you
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done it okay but you could just do steps like honestly if i was gonna someone at her size
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every day she has to be eating absurd like numbers okay so my step one i wouldn't even
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recommend working out that's too much for you to think about okay honey that's too many like
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exercise you're it's you're gonna get overwhelmed all right let's do step one you can get 10 000
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steps a day well you know we could even do eight you probably need seven thousand you probably need
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to break five thousand okay we'll start with five thousand steps a day and then um let's let's look
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at what we're eating because it's probably junk exercise causes you pain the exercise okay no
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right i'm with you uh-huh dieting for example okay that doesn't make any sense to me i don't think
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that food makes very much sense to me in my neurodivergent brain this is where mechanistic
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eating actually helps people who are neurodivergent and the research supports that because it doesn't
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have to make sense to you okay in other words it's like you eat on these schedules and you eat these
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foods and you eat this much hence the concept right of mechanistic i don't like that i understand
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that you don't like it but you'll have to decide what you don't like more carrying the weight or
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the mechanistic eating because it actually could be helpful there are other ways forward but you
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told me you tried them i tried i tried a whole lot there's a lot of other things to be concerned
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about i'm also a social worker i work with youth oh god help us god help us oh my god there are a
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lot of let's go back to you uh-huh yes i'm i'm saying for me right there are many things that
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i'm more concerned about than my weight my my body is not the most interesting thing about
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your weight and said i don't see a way out of this right and i'm just and i just i'm telling
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care of it in the ways that i can and i've found works for me but you just told me it didn't work
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for you all right um small william dreams of salmon but it works to an extent you just told
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me it didn't work for you it works to an extent and this isn't a relevant conversation if you're
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happy with it i stand on 10 toes 10 toes down that we are not pretending that there's healthy
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at any size there are absolutely elements and aspects of the movement that do put that messaging
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into the universe i've had those debates you've said i've had numerous debates with people yeah
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i mean she's been doing this forever i mean i used to watch my mom used to cry while watching
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the biggest loser we would watch like them lose all the weight and then my mom would start crying
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people who are body positivity activists that try to tell me that they can be healthy at any size
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and it's just not the case and i disagree with that and i can use shame as a vehicle
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i'm sorry we have to pause you've been voted out by the majority
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what i'm curious about is if you care about people's health and you have people in front
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any of you, and I'm sure you have people online who are telling you that the body positivity
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movement, or I prefer body liberation, body justice, body acceptance, body blub, all the
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good shit that we like actually increases their health, then I don't understand your
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Like, what are you debating if the fat people are telling you it makes their life better?
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I'm debating their physical health, and I'm debating the people who claim that you can
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Do you think you can be physically healthy and mentally unhealthy at the same time?
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I think the part where I get stuck, I am a mental health professional.
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I work with people from a body liberation standpoint.
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What I know to be true from my experience is that body positivity, body liberation helps
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it's very difficult to understand why you think somebody is going to take better care of a body
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they hate. Like why body positivity would not inspire people to take better care of their bodies.
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I never said you should hate your body. In fact, you should. Okay. So they don't think that. What
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I think is that there are people in the movement who have co-opted healthy at any size and it went
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from access to healthcare to quite literally meaning for them that you can be healthy at any
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size and that's not true okay i mean i there the studies show that if you're very very very very
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thin or your body is very very very very big it is more difficult to be healthy that is absolutely
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true and you agree with me on this point i don't because i i don't think body positivity is the
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dangerous thing i think i think hatred of fat bodies and people hating themselves and people
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living in self-loathing because they've been taught that their body is the wrong shape that's
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the danger both can be true at one uh take an l no that's not true she's being way too patient
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she's being way too patient that's too bad she's a lesbian she would have she's pretty she would
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have some pretty kids so let's look at this right so the first thing we would want to do obviously
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is incentivize somebody so it's like okay what's the why that's going to allow you to tolerate the
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how but hold on hold on that's the positive that's the inspiration piece okay now here's the issue
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if that piece if all the things that they get out of it don't serve them as much as the things that
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are getting out of being overweight and it does provide quite a lot i can give you an example
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wait then they're not going unconsciously they will sabotage the change can i give you an example
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so you'll understand it okay there was a kid that i worked with okay on biggest losers 18
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years old okay he shows up with his dad ken they both lose like 100 pounds they go home
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and they're visiting their family it's the holidays the doors fly open and there's mom
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and mom starts crying and she's not crying tears of joy she feels like they're gonna abandon her
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like they broke the contract like they've outgrown her and she becomes sad and she withdraws
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so what does the 18 year old do he starts eating with mom again what does the food provide him
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a connection with his mom oh mothers mothers leave their kids fat like um my brother had a friend
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and i was like i'm not gonna say his name but so and so i came back from england and he was fat and
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i'm like what happened you weren't fat before and so every day we would work out and like run together
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and then his mother would be like oh why are you trying to eat healthier
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it's like wow with my dad this is one of the ways that we connected food provides a lot of people
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with a lot of different things yes you cannot eat and not have your parasympathetic nervous
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system turn on at the same time there's no such thing as not emotional eating it's fine it's good
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it's great food is great but what i'm trying to show you is that if in some cases the pain
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associated with continuing that defense mechanism is greater than the pain associated with change
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it helps people change in some cases not in the long term and i agree with you well yeah most
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people do go back but some people do change um and they do get better hat mostly men right women
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will just stay fat forever but mostly men notice how most of the people arguing are women it's like
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I'm sorry you've been voted out by the majority.
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So we, earlier you were speaking about how these, there's randomized control trials that
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Randomized control trials that have now shown us that obesity is causal to all cause mortality.
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disagree with that I mean this is why arguing with women is impossible look we have eyes fat
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people are dying fat people are having heart attacks there's studies that also links it
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we look in the media there's examples of celebrities that are fat dying early
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well I don't agree with that well not every opinion is a valid opinion right not every
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opinions and important opinion yes here's why i disagree because you can disagree no but let me
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please please let me hear me out okay okay so the reason why is because registered dietitian
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school for six years side nutrition weights all the all the stuff and yeah but we don't really
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care i don't want to hear your title i want to hear your argument personal personal trainers
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probably know more than nutrition i mean your resume is your body like what does your body look
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we can't keep toxicity it doesn't come up my curriculum because it's because it's a
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tick tock thing that's like you know i was never meant to hear your you're lucky i have this job
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woman because it's just you're a crazy lady i was never meant to hear your opinion
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no cortisol face or whatever it's not listen to me it is not
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bullshit it's ectopic fat but can we just say because you keep sidestepping this is the claim
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okay okay the claim is that obesity is unhealthy lipotoxicity is not but it is the definition
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of ectopic fat it's funny it never came up in six years of a professional accredited
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what's fatty liver disease i know what fatty liver i was a clinical dietician that's lipotoxicity okay
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okay when fat is in the liver when fat i'm actually trying to learn um is in the heart
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when fat gets deposited in the brain yeah that is lipotoxicity and it happens when the body has
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no place to put the excess energy anymore it is irrefutable that that is bad for your health
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see it's like i would have asked a few questions because i'm like oh
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i weigh 197 pounds i average every month 190 to 200 i've never gone past
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200 the reason is because i cut sugar out of my diet well
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let's see it i have 11 that seems a little high unless you're built sorry
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oh my god causation so you're okay lipotoxicity refers to cell damage caused by excess fatty acids
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accumulating in organs that are not designed to store fat such as the liver pancreas heart
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and muscles when fat spills from the apatose tissue into these organs that can promote
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inflammation insulin resistance and organ dysfunction okay saying there's causal studies
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right yes mrt studies that's great okay so i think is the reason why we cannot show that that the fat
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in and of itself leads to the negative health outcomes is because we cannot keep a human in a
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lab and control every factor but have the only thing that's different mendelian randomized but
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can you just listen so a person that a person inherently eliminates any completing i know
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you need to have like a certain level of intelligence
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to talk to her about this topic or humility one or the other you know intelligent people don't
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mind talking to dumb people if if there's a sense of humility oh Jillian I didn't know what that was
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tell me oh fatty liver disease I think I used to have that actually I think I had that when I was
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heavy i gotta that sounds like something maybe i still do i should get to test it again
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factors because they're based on genetic predispositions coupled with
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like a person in a larger body has experienced things that we can't undo from the fat so for
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example they might have negative health outcomes because every time they go to a doctor instead
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of being given an evidence-based treatment like i have unearned thin privilege i go to a doctor
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i say you know my stomach hurts i get a full workup saying the earth is flat are you trying
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to tell me that having fat in your liver i just want to talk about fat in your heart
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having fat deposited in your brain is healthy no i just want to talk about
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i don't they they need to pay me like 10 grand to talk to these people
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10 grand we are not trying to say that it's healthy no i'm not trying to tell you that is
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what i said i was never talking about the health of it okay i'm trying to say everything you're
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saying is hinging on this idea and it's it's a problem that we disagree on it that it's the
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weight in and of itself that leads to the negative health outcomes you're saying this mrt totally is
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that is an endocrine organ i know but but can you what about it destroys your hormone balance
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it creates insulin sensitivity when the body has too much fat it releases insane amounts of
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different i just wonder have you heard of social determinants of health tell me about it okay
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social determinants of health a group of factors that impact someone's health outcomes okay that
00:28:30.320
are things like your uh your your health care access and quality neighborhood and built environment
00:28:35.760
things like your stress levels and socioeconomic status here's the thing a person who's fat lives
00:28:41.840
in a larger body they we can't take away that that person has probably experienced
00:28:46.800
higher stress levels their whole life from experiencing marginalization every corner
00:28:56.160
look it is tough not being hot it's tough being ugly okay it is tough and i'm sure it stresses
00:29:02.960
you out but nobody's really pant like if anything when you become fat you're like invisible like we
00:29:08.400
just don't see you we don't discriminate against you but you're now like the equivalent especially
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00:29:13.040
as a woman of an 80 year old woman like we just you're invisible we don't see you from shows like
0.98
00:29:18.400
the biggest loser to the doctor's office okay you know who does see you black men they see you
0.98
00:29:24.000
they see you loud and clear yeah can't take away that they haven't been given evidence-based health
0.98
00:29:34.160
options because when they go to a doctor they're told to go lose weight fat gets deposited in the
00:29:39.600
brain answering what i'm saying how does how does i'm confused are you suggesting these are the
00:29:44.560
reasons people become overweight no i'm suggesting that i a person could be in a larger body and be
00:29:51.200
perfectly healthy on a buy on based on their labs that their cholesterol seven percent of people who
00:29:56.240
are classified as overweight or obese call it whatever you guys feel comfortable with only
00:30:03.040
seven percent are classified as healthy say that was true say we knew first grab the data for you
00:30:08.080
right now say we knew for certain that it was unhealthy that that what you're saying is true
00:30:14.320
here's the class but even then even then we'd be in this place where
00:30:17.760
okay so what do we do are we gonna send someone down eat less exercise more
00:30:24.800
on a path of trying to lose weight and then gaining and trying and gaining and we know
00:30:28.640
that weight cycling in and of itself bad for the heart bad for insulin bad for the brain
00:30:32.640
bad for all the things we work with that individual that's what i do in my private
00:30:36.400
practice that's wonderful yeah and i don't i don't encourage we like god help us these
00:30:40.800
are the nutritionists oh my god oh my god these are the nutritionists of america us because it's
00:30:57.760
unethical i disagree with you and what's ethical you were asking before what it's unethical not to
00:31:03.760
be transparent with people and the dangers yeah transparency is the dangers of weight cycling
00:31:08.960
you can go down that path that's a separate issue you're presuming they're weight cycling
00:31:13.200
if you're doing your job they shouldn't have to wait cycle right no it's not about me it's about
00:31:17.440
the body the body is so smart we are we are but we're animals our bodies when we lose weight our
00:31:21.440
body goes oh she just starved me i'm gonna do everything i can to try to get back to that place
00:31:26.880
i think you drive up thoughts about food i think it's slow down metabolism to conserve the energy
00:31:31.760
you are getting are you suggesting that because it's hard and it's multifactorial we should negate
00:31:36.960
the dangers and not try to get healthier that it's more dangerous to weight cycle than it is
00:31:41.280
to stay in a fat body still not the clean okay what is weight cycle like gain and lose and gain
00:31:46.960
and lose i mean probably that's a lot on your body it'd be the most healthy to just to just lose it
00:31:55.440
you know he says i'm a five in looks but i have a six pack okay well maybe your composition it
00:32:03.040
sounded a little high to me but you know if you have a six pack you probably know what you're
00:32:06.800
doing i don't have a six pack so well see that see that that's humility that's deference well
00:32:11.840
i don't have a six pack so i'll defer to you you know and if if you want to show me that like sure
00:32:19.280
show me the data i'm not going to argue with that it's not healthy to do that either that's still
00:32:23.200
not the claim. This isn't a hierarchy of what is unhealthy. We're out of time. We have to pause
00:32:28.300
there. Yeah, thank you for that exchange. Who put these here? Can someone remove these off the set,
00:32:38.040
please? Come on. No. Thank you. Thank you. That could have gone really bad. Workplace injuries
00:32:51.900
are inevitable and luckily for me i know just who to call when accidents like that happen once on my
00:32:58.700
way to work a motorcyclist is that the large food companies are one of the primary beneficiaries
00:33:04.020
of the body positivity movement all right if you want to be the next debater get to the chair
00:33:19.540
So, what are you classifying as large food companies?
00:33:30.000
Now, if they were beneficiaries and benefactoring and...
00:33:39.680
i think i'm gonna sneeze no okay like why do i i can't believe i have to listen to this woman's
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00:33:50.020
opinion like it's crazy that she even gets a microphone it's almost doing a disservice to
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00:33:55.740
the woman because nowhere like you are so fat nowhere in my lifetime should you have a microphone
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00:34:02.340
nowhere like do you understand when you are fat you signal to the world i am so stupid that i
1.00
00:34:11.440
can't put a donut down that's what you're signaling i am so lazy that i cannot put a
0.99
00:34:19.080
donut and i've been there right i've been there you know i was fat and lazy so um but
00:34:26.840
and you got to learn making all this money off of the body positivity movement why is it that
00:34:33.500
they spend billions on calorie counting apps on a lot of things that we see in society as
00:34:41.620
forcing the losing weight or talking about losing weight because that to me doesn't make sense and
00:34:47.420
doesn't correlate but also people that are benefiting from this are the people in the body
00:34:53.980
why was I fat and lazy I'll tell you my problem it was um well it wasn't anything triggered it
00:35:01.400
was just I didn't know how to cook um I didn't I wasn't that good at cleaning either so it was
00:35:06.400
it felt like a lot of work to like cook um and I didn't know how to do it so that was one problem
00:35:14.380
another problem was I really enjoyed I've always enjoyed and this is something I still struggle
00:35:19.320
with i love liquid calories i love it i love smoothies i love you know i love coffee with
00:35:26.520
sugar i hate water i just i wish i could um and over time you just like it's just measuring what
00:35:35.240
you're eating over time and you figure out what the problems were mine was caramel lattes you know
00:35:40.680
so positivity movement themselves a little bit about myself wait can i clarify one thing please
00:35:47.560
i'm talking predominantly about finance okay sorry perfect thank you even even that i still will say
00:35:54.360
so i come from hey i can cook now but before no i couldn't before that's true the wedding industry
00:36:00.520
so i created the first publication in the world for plus size brides i've now gotten 13 wedding
00:36:06.200
publications around what plus size women are getting married now oh my god this isn't fellas
0.97
00:36:11.960
black men what are you doing what are you doing well there is enough plus size brides
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00:36:19.000
that they can have publications specifically for plus size brides
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00:36:25.320
what are you guys doing doug mp you got to tell black men they got to do better than this and
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00:36:30.040
the occasional white man i don't think i understand insulin i understand calories
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00:36:41.960
huh maybe i need to i'm the world and my biggest thing is is the wedding industry is very centric
00:36:50.440
on this is what the wedding industry looks like i have created a platform where body pot and not
0.97
00:36:57.160
just larger bodied body positivity but body positivity for all sizes and i'm going to come
00:37:04.600
specifically from the wedding industry which is very different i know but it still is a very
00:37:08.120
weight-centric okay yes so your argument is the the wedding industry is the primary beneficiary
00:37:13.880
i'm not saying that i'm saying that's where my knowledge comes from but the body positivity
00:37:19.320
movement is really for us we are the main and i'm saying we because i'm a large body person
00:37:25.160
i totally understand that's where it's really coming from the ways they're exploiting oh please
00:37:30.440
so there have been two really big exposés one by the washington post and one by the examiner
00:37:36.200
so they're coming at this from numerous angles so the first one is they've gone after
00:37:42.840
jillian is an expert in health and fitness and all these people to think she doesn't
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00:37:46.600
know what she's talking about in all that weight debating jillian not an ounce of a logical
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00:37:52.840
body positivity argument yeah i mean i would ask her a million questions she knows more than i do
00:37:58.360
you know a lot of the intuitive eating dieticians okay so let me just can i give you some statistics
00:38:04.920
okay so washington post analyzed more than 6 000 social media posts by 68 registered dietitians
00:38:13.080
with a combined reach of over 9 million followers 40 of them were using the anti-diet language right
00:38:19.080
like food freedom no food rules ditch the diet healthy in any size so on and so forth very often
00:38:25.960
not disclosing the fact that they were paid by the big food companies okay okay so they're basically
00:38:33.000
going after the intuitive eating dietitians i can give you abby sharp that's okay though but but i
00:38:38.520
want you to listen okay yeah they are doing that yes but the aspect that the body positive movement
00:38:45.800
is really for us that is not even anywhere we need to equate into it it really is with you
00:38:51.480
when they're using your movement but that but do you and i'm gonna say this clearly and for right
00:38:56.840
now it's just so crazy because in these debates you just see how confidently like the expert is
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00:39:04.280
humble and the idiot is confident isn't that incredible the expert humble
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00:39:13.160
idiot competent or idiot confident it's just incredible
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00:39:20.760
that's incredible i don't care who uses my movement i want the movement to be there
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00:39:25.480
and that right there they can take it it's marketing and sales 101 of course they're
0.82
00:39:30.720
gonna use the fucking movement but then because she even know what marketing and sales 101 is
1.00
00:39:36.820
can't you guys say you don't get to co-opt our movement that's not for me to do i don't care
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00:39:43.080
about that the thing is is we don't care but it's not about we should we are doing what we're doing
00:39:49.440
because this is our family this is our world it doesn't matter about what do you think but the
00:39:56.840
thing is we don't care you we are the movement but there are a lot of people that are being
00:40:02.160
hurt by this and these guys essentially are engineering food to be addictive to and you know
00:40:10.400
what and i will say this i will say this yeah i will give you the claps on that i will say yes
00:40:15.380
that is true but what i do want to say yeah is that that it is happens all the time a movement
00:40:22.480
starts and someone comes in and takes it and someone comes in and comes in and someone comes
00:40:26.580
in and don't deny it you just don't care no i'm saying it's fine for them to do that but the bigger
00:40:32.840
issue that i want you to realize is that the body positivity movement is ultimately for us
00:40:39.380
if someone wants to come and get on our coattail that's perfectly fine but for us it doesn't need
00:40:44.480
go away it doesn't need to go anywhere it doesn't go away but i'm i'm suggesting now see there's a
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00:40:50.880
suggestion okay i like it i like it okay i'm see bruh the older i get i just see how dumb people
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00:40:59.520
are like it's just and it's not even that i think i'm that smart but god
00:41:07.040
i've just had arguments and i can't even believe i've argued with people
00:41:10.480
suggesting that it could evolve that you guys could call out when you're co-opted that you
00:41:18.840
could centralize messaging so that it's not all over the place i am not opposed to okay i'm not
00:41:25.320
opposed to that i'm not saying it that's not a claim no but the thing is is i want you to know
00:41:30.060
who the true beneficiaries are you're saying that they are the main beneficiaries financially yeah
00:41:36.040
and that's okay and that's okay but you're saying the claim says that the large food companies yes
00:41:41.880
are the main beneficiaries of the body positive movement that is not correct i understand because
00:41:47.400
we are the main people we are the main beneficiaries of the body positive movement if someone wants to
00:41:53.240
come and get our hotel go ahead disagree with you on that i think that's a mistake and that's okay
00:41:58.520
i think that you guys could tell them you could expose what they're doing like can i can i read
00:42:04.440
you something else okay i'm i'm here to show you how you are not here to hear i've been listening
00:42:10.200
to you i mean bro diabolical it's a one-sided dialogue well this is okay i have a friend
00:42:18.440
that's on the inside he sent me this he goes i just want to show you the ways in which this is
00:42:23.800
being in the inside of of uh i can't say that a big food you got it exactly okay so so here's
00:42:30.600
the intentional message overlap right so healthy at every size quote you can be healthy in any size
00:42:38.040
corporate benefit removes health concern barrier to sales stay with me okay dieting doesn't work
00:42:45.320
protects snack foods from being cut healthy in any size weight and health are unrelated
00:42:53.240
corporate benefit deflects from products causing obesity healthy at any size weight stigma causes
00:43:00.360
disease not weight wait wait okay i'm showing you this is this is what i would love and i'm saying
00:43:09.400
love because i want it but i love it more if there is such a resistance to the body positive
00:43:16.520
movement and i'm speaking specifically kind of from your standpoint yes yeah if there's such a
00:43:21.320
resistance to the body positive movement why are you saying why are you letting them take money
00:43:27.080
from you but where's the resistance i'm telling you acknowledging or saying that it's actual
00:43:33.240
that it needs to be i think that there are absolutely i think that intuitive eating is
00:43:39.160
a goal not not a treatment plan um i think that having access to health which is what
00:43:47.000
health in this has with and every size was initially intended to do i think all those
00:43:50.680
things are important i think unfortunately the fact that the movement is decentralized okay and
00:43:56.200
it's prone to being co-opted it can do harm in the ways that i have shown you that's what i'm
00:44:02.440
saying and that we can agree to all right wow pause there that's good we got a pause there
00:44:14.600
you've been voted out by the majority well i really appreciate this thank you thank you
00:44:18.680
Oh my God. I just lose. So I really want to focus on what you've just been saying about the co-opting
00:44:30.080
of the movement, because what you seem to be critiquing is the people who've co-opted the
00:44:34.940
movement, not the people who actually built the movement, not the people who actually are the
00:44:38.580
movement. So, so the, the idea that has movement though. So the thing is, I don't want to name
00:44:44.960
names but there are many okay influencers who have said these things so who's the movement
00:44:50.320
influencers and activists are not necessarily the same thing we know this is it's always the
00:44:54.240
gaslighting oh this isn't real body positivity this is real body positivity i mean women are
1.00
00:45:01.040
just experts these people are demons allegedly invited here as activists and advocates not
00:45:08.480
always the same thing right i don't disagree but it's become as i mentioned a patchwork quilt
00:45:15.920
of like i'm an activist i'm an influencer i'm a dietitian it's whereas like when you look at
00:45:20.080
something like aa well let me so let me guide you to something very clear about the health at every
00:45:25.360
size movement health at every size is actually a registered trademark of the association for size
00:45:29.520
diversity and health so when people are misusing that we are a movement that doesn't have the same
00:45:35.120
resources as the health and wellness industry or the health and wellness grifters or the major
00:45:41.520
food industry right we don't have those same resources to fight every time somebody misuses
00:45:45.680
our terminology our philosophies our what do you mean you guys obviously have the time because
00:45:51.120
you're not spending it at the gym i go to the gym every day so that's a lot of time you know
00:45:58.000
know practices are values but there are some of us out there who are doing that right i've never
00:46:05.980
seen caveats i never ever see the freaking all right jillian you gotta they're just gonna over
00:46:14.140
talk you this is like a therapy this is like a cope session in caveats so one maybe today maybe
00:46:21.280
maybe you could help amplify some of the cabinet i am doing that right now okay so let's go to the
00:46:34.240
Because individual benefit, I can't, it's unquantifiable.
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00:46:45.780
So, if body positivity is feeding their profits,
00:46:50.020
will we see their profits reduce as this pendulum swing
00:46:55.360
to the, you know, like I get asked all the time
00:46:58.360
as the director of NAFA, is body positivity over?
00:47:09.240
it depends on what you're in body positivity for.
00:47:12.500
it ain't over because the system ain't changed, right?
00:47:24.760
it's like oh i understand i'm moving more um getting rich off of body positivity is wrong
00:47:29.780
because corporations getting rich off of early death yeah but they're gonna die anyway they
00:47:35.280
would eat themselves into the grave no matter what with or without body positivity or towards
00:47:39.120
a thin centric ideal again or you know leaving behind we we've labeled body positivity dei and
00:47:45.000
we're turning away from that whatever as we move away from that are we going to see the profits of
00:47:50.120
these food industries drop well you are why would you need to make food genetically addictive if
00:47:57.320
body positive it's like me jillian you're trying to be polite and it always you always end up
00:48:02.320
conceding to the impolite people because you don't like interrupting so you just always get talked
00:48:07.940
it's over and just sell that food if you can just tell people when you feel good in your
00:48:22.380
body you want to eat all the Nabisco snacks that you want to because then why do we have
00:48:26.480
to make them they don't even want you to stop eating one chip can this is how this is how
00:48:32.820
incremental they are about this they literally engineer okay just just hear me out they don't
00:48:40.020
even want you to have to stop and take a drink of water when you're eating their chips so they
00:48:46.100
engineer how much fat is in your mouth in each bite there are a team of multi-disciplinary
00:48:53.300
scientists that literally work around the clock 24 7 day after day year after their body positivity
00:49:00.900
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no so this is the thing no i'm saying what you're
00:49:06.260
describing is a misuse of science yeah what you're describing is you know what you're describing is
00:49:11.140
friction business what you're describing is capitalism what you're describing is greed yes
00:49:15.860
positivity is not the reason for that no i'm suggesting that i think you guys should get
00:49:24.420
pretty freaking vocal and pissed because these guys no i don't think so jillian they're gonna
00:49:30.180
i mean they're gonna eat there there's enough information where you can get food that's good
0.88
00:49:34.340
for you they just want to keep getting fat it's their fault jill you're being way too kind are
00:49:40.740
actively manipulating your message so much i haven't even gotten to half the that they do
00:49:45.380
so for example they have effectively lobbied to remove nutrition guidelines and warning labels
00:49:51.620
on food packaging because of harmful shame it's like it trans fats are bad for your health okay
00:50:00.100
it's a fact they have advocated for that the body positivity movement the fat activist movement
00:50:05.880
they're using messaging right like you said co-opting yes right so they should stop co-opting
0.96
00:50:12.140
our shit but they're not going to but yes that's what i'm saying so how do you i think you guys
0.90
00:50:16.440
should get pissed about it like i i get the things you're pissed at we are pissed about a lot of i
0.99
00:50:20.620
get it can you add this to the list add this this johnson we are pissed about a lot of things we
00:50:26.360
not pissed about your waistline i she's being too nice
1.00
00:50:34.440
it's like i can't even imagine operating in one of these circles i think i would kill myself
00:50:41.640
is this how men feel when they have to censor themselves 24 7. they're the primary you want to
0.78
00:50:46.440
indict someone it is on the list it is on the list for some people whose focus is body positivity
00:50:52.520
right we have different foci i you know i do civil rights stuff some people do fashion stuff
00:50:57.320
wedding industry health you know health and wellness eating disorders we have there are
00:51:01.400
folks who are thinking about the food industry there are folks who are nutritionists who are
00:51:05.960
you know like i can't without seeing the list of like the people that i the i remember the
00:51:09.800
washington post article some of those people are not people that i would associate with i understand
00:51:14.920
but they're literally many of them are certified in intuitive eating okay but they're happy sharp
00:51:20.760
okay but that's not health at every size intuitive eating is not a health of every size principle
00:51:25.960
intuitive eating is the biggest i've ever heard in my life yeah we're gonna intuitively eat too
00:51:31.080
much food my problem with the movement is that it's like oh but it's not it's not that part but
00:51:38.200
but it but it is that part it's you're saying our problem is that we conflict that all the things
00:51:42.840
get i'm not saying it's your problem i'm saying my i'm saying my issue is that because it's become
00:51:50.600
a patchwork quilt an amalgamation of movements and boys oh it's an activist it's a it's a it's
00:51:57.000
a political it's a it's an influencer it's a celebrity it's a it there's no accountability
00:52:03.160
for any of this there's no through line and it allows exploitation why aren't we so they can be
00:52:08.920
hurtful what the why isn't the entire public holding food companies accountable for food
00:52:15.160
company evil i think why is it the why is it you don't think so i mean they're they're reevaluating
00:52:22.440
the generally recognized as safe rule they just changed the food pyramid which guides
00:52:26.760
do you want to talk about that one it guides hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies
00:52:31.080
and now they're mandating is i'm saying that focused on the they're definitely focused on it
00:52:36.760
okay part of it okay i think there are a lot of people that are you do understand how how and why
00:52:42.280
they have significantly more resources than actual body positive activists right
00:52:47.240
saying that they don't have more resources i'm saying can you see this issue what do we do about
00:52:54.040
it um well do you think it's about i think it's a problem i mean i think there are a lot of
00:53:01.160
problems there oh my gosh did you see the way she's talking it's like they're like adults but
00:53:06.520
with like still kids this is why i'm not for every woman having kids a woman that fat cannot take
1.00
00:53:13.160
care of kids she can't take care of herself she's just going to pass on her obesity to children
1.00
00:53:17.320
you know i think one of the problems is the assumption that everything that has to do with
00:53:23.320
um with with food and its lack of health correlates with fatness because we are saying
00:53:28.680
body positivity again well no we are saying body positivity and body positivity includes all kinds
00:53:36.280
of ways of being in a body right not just body size it includes all of the things about disability
00:53:41.160
and skin color and hair texture and all of the things right body positivity but we really have
00:53:45.320
been coding that in this conversation to talk about body size right and and you can understand
00:53:51.080
okay i actually didn't think body positivity to be dead honest with you i've never interpreted
00:53:55.480
body positivity to be about skin color or gender ideology but some of the people who started body
00:54:03.720
positivity and practice it today and talk about the values that i don't think anybody sees it that
00:54:09.640
way it that is not a part of the movement i think the general presumption the general presumption
00:54:15.800
is that it must focus on weight and weight loss because that's a bigger narrative in the culture
00:54:19.960
but that is who we are seeing advocate we're not seeing a person who's black being like
00:54:25.960
i'm bozzy body positive because i'm black they're in they're generally in a different civil rights
00:54:29.960
movement so i think that discounts the black leadership in this movement right i'm not saying
00:54:34.840
that i'm saying i very rarely see okay people of color simply based on prejudice regarding their
00:54:43.960
skin color using body positivity to make their point i see them and like this is a movement i
00:54:50.920
see people you see people who have multiple okay oh my god i can't do this anymore oh i can't do
00:54:58.120
this anymore okay we're gonna do five more i'm gonna finish this lady's debate i think identities
1.00
00:55:05.960
that include their skin color their gender presentation their disability they are talking
00:55:11.400
about body positivity related to their body size and those other issues we had somebody else
00:55:17.400
i just i've never seen it in all the years like i i've seen active i mean which you started which
0.99
00:55:26.680
you started right or i'm sorry i'm sorry it's just it's just incredible how confidently idiots
0.97
00:55:32.200
lecture you that's how we feel the longest time i've let a woman lecture me was four hours
1.00
00:55:37.240
that i was able to speak and that you work for yes had to do with the gentleman that started
00:55:42.820
this organization because his wife label it however you would i don't know what word you
00:55:46.840
you guys feel comfortable with we've been using fat for 57 years so fat's okay to use
00:55:51.600
okay yes let's see okay you are but listen jillian you've positioned yourself you've
00:55:59.860
positioned yourself as be really really knowing this movement and really knowing where we're
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showing up and it is really really common for activists and advocates to talk about using fat
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as but you can't say overweight we just say fat right okay fine because over 25 body fat i'll go
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with that was started by a gentleman whose wife was fat yes who was discriminated oh my god a sip
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started this oh my god yes that's where your part began intuitive eating is that's not how i came
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into it through body positivity right because that's how the movement start if you really want
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that's how my organization started the movement started with body size black women and families
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in the civil rights movement with with women with people at stonewall who were fat people
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with that's how the what's the through line now what's the through line what do you mean
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okay so so people at stonewall is it because they were gay or because they were gay and
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as you guys say fat right it was because they were gay but there were fat people there and
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those fat people talked about their fat bodies gay people are part of the body positivity movement
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uh a huge part on the merits of just being gay guys no that's not gay and defending people's
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body sovereignty people's body autonomy uh people's right to live freely in their body
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what is we have different angles of discrimination the core started with regard to being
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that am i right that is what he oh my god see this is this is why you can't argue with stupid
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people i mean she can't even get them to stick to the topic they're too dumb to be talking to
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her started your organization my organization okay healthy at every size the beginning is about
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access for people right and help that every size principles talk about intersectionality and multi
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multiply marginalized people all right i mean that's enough oh my god
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all right let's go to twitter um and see some twitter before i close out the show
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i can't i can't listen to another one i can't i'm sorry if you hate me i can't do it
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all right like all right let's go to twitter um i did some retweets specifically for the show
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let's start with caleb hammer caleb hammer is a youtuber um who gives people financial advice
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and he's going viral um because he's telling people to spend less money and he's kind of
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stating the obvious not entitled to go out to eat that might piss some people off right it's like
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you're not entitled to that i would love you to i hope you can fit in the budget let's work together
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let's get you more money let's get your budget under control but you're not entitled to go enjoy
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nice sushi or a mcdonald's um you don't need to get the fancy fancy nice perfect whole foods and
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get the off-brand for a little bit i off-branded in college on the cheap it's not great and it's
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not the best for health either but it worked not entirely let's keep going the biggest red flags in
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romantic relationships financial when each other don't know each other's financial situation
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because there's no one who comes on this show that isn't at least in the position where they
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should have that talk where they have a completely different worldview on goals spending desires where
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they want to be as a couple it's like if you're not even aligned on that what are we doing get
00:59:40.240
aligned or get the out um and then the next one would be just like not knowing where the other
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one's spending is going and immediately throwing accusations to the other person's way like you're
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spending on this we're spending on this it's like why are we looking at it like this are we just
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trying to come together and get better together and hold each other accountable instead of just
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trying to throw each damn uh we reacted to that yesterday um clavicular i guess had to block his
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mom saving clavicular sees that women are crazy yeah i blocked my mom because
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you kept saying how fucked up of a person i was and i feel like that and i wasn't even
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doing anything i wasn't even i was already just drinking
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she's like you're a loser so i didn't even block i literally just muted the text on whatsapp
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Do you remember his four wild and messy relationships?
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Neeson was smitten, lived together five years, but it didn't work out.
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then Brooke Shields three months into dating Neeson proposed she said no Shields felt he'd
01:01:34.640
fall for his next co-star and she was right the relationship fizzled finally Natasha Richardson
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they met in 1993 doing Anna Christie Richardson was married but the chemistry was intense
01:01:46.800
she left her husband and they married in 1994 tragedy struck in 2009 Richardson fell while
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skiing and hit her head at 45 neeson still visits her grave and talks to her so which woman do you
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think is his true love breaking oh i thought they were gonna what the heck okay whatever um
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oh there's a new montoya i don't know if you remember temptation island
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but basically um they put their significant other on an island with hot people
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and see if they fall into temptation and then it goes as badly as you think
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uh oh he's gotta watch his girl get cracked
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yeah he's a giga chad you got cooked i don't know why you'd put her on an island with giga chads
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do you know what i mean like why would you you're gonna put your on an island with giga chads that's
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gonna add exactly how you think it would add that's like sending your back in the
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day if you're a peasant you're like yeah i'll send her to the king you're like
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yeah i mean then she gets cracked by the king you know
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yeah you caught your ex cheating you know i would talk about cheating stories but here's the the
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problem when you tell stories of you getting cheated on as a woman it actually makes you
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look worse because you picked him so as far as i'm concerned all my exes were saints
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they were all Saints they were all the perfect angels ah you know what I mean
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yeah she's gonna get cracks that night um yeah because the more like you argue and
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bag now it's like now he's just confirmed the decision you know now it's like yeah you've
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confirmed that she made the right choice anyways guys um that's all I got today I'm a little sick
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do i understand spanish no i might take it someday
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that's just so much work oh my god um anyways guys and let me know what you think in the
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comments if you could like the video and subscribe to the channel i really appreciate
01:06:47.300
you guys being here um and i will see you next time