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Pearl
- June 15, 2025
Masculinity Under Attackļ¼ Men Losing the Battle for Marriage and Respect @ItsComplicatedChannel
Episode Stats
Length
24 minutes
Words per Minute
195.77591
Word Count
4,712
Sentence Count
240
Misogynist Sentences
44
Hate Speech Sentences
38
Summary
Summaries generated with
gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ
.
Transcript
Transcript generated with
Whisper
(
turbo
).
Misogyny classifications generated with
MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny
.
Hate speech classifications generated with
facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target
.
00:00:00.000
when I've seen you call out the trad cons, usually, uh, you'll call it like, I love the,
00:00:04.700
uh, the interview that you did with, with Michael Knowles. Uh, we've talked about, you know,
00:00:07.920
marriage and it not being, you know, a good deal for men. And, um, in my last episode about the
00:00:12.900
dowry, I actually used a clip of that, um, where he basically said, you know, that if you get a
00:00:17.560
prenup, it invalidates the sacrament and all that other stuff. But, um, not only do we talk about,
00:00:23.820
um, how the trad cons view marriage and, you know, they're not really doing enough as we would all
00:00:29.820
like to see them kind of, you know, reform the laws and the family courts and remove the liabilities
00:00:34.260
when it comes to, uh, marriage, but also just how they view masculinity, how, you know, being a man
00:00:40.900
is all about, uh, protect, provide, sacrifice, serve, don't complain. Um, and so the way that
00:00:49.260
masculinity is being defined, I think is a big problem. And, you know, one of the questions
00:00:54.640
that I want to ask at some point, uh, coming up is, do you think men are smart enough to realize
00:00:59.160
that masculinity is the first thing that anyone will attack when they want to control men?
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That's a real, I just did it. That's a really good question.
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It's complicated.
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Yeah. What do you think the answer is? Do you think men, do you think men, because when I'm,
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when I hear that question, my mind goes two ways. One way is I've seen men take some really,
00:01:20.160
really bad deals in my lifetime, but I don't, I think social media also has opened the floodgates
00:01:27.720
where women used to be a lot more deceptive and they can't be, um, like, you know, I see
00:01:33.900
like on Tik TOK and stuff, women getting like ratioed when they tell like a abuse story or
00:01:39.860
do you know what I mean? Like, and that just never used to happen like 10 years ago. So,
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uh, or, um, men, you know, realizing that they're the bailout guy where I don't like 10 years ago,
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they just kind of fell for it. Cause we didn't have all this media. Um, that's my initial thought,
00:01:56.920
but I don't have an answer. So I'm curious what you think.
00:02:00.140
Well, like, okay. If I had to answer my own question, I would say that, um, you know,
00:02:04.720
so, so masculinity is almost like this, this prescripted idea that this identity that men
00:02:13.240
have to follow, um, where, um, I guess you, um, like, okay, you know, man up and get married
00:02:23.120
or, you know, okay. If you're, uh, if you don't do a, B and C, you're not a real man. So masculinity
00:02:29.860
is also the first thing that's promoted when they want to control men. And I think that,
00:02:34.140
um, you know, you see trad cons doing this, you even see some red pillars doing this.
00:02:38.900
They will say things like, uh, you know, you know, Oh, you're, you, you've got really feminine
00:02:45.200
energy right now, or you're a beta male or you're simp, or you're a weak man, or you're gay.
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First thing. And I think that the strongest men are the ones who don't fall, fall prey to that.
00:02:57.260
Um, even following up in that, in that logic train, I was going to say, um, do you think
00:03:02.840
it's true that, uh, our society is more willing to accept gay men than it will accept straight
00:03:08.760
men who don't meet masculinity standards? Oh my gosh. That's such, I, yeah, I think you're
00:03:15.200
right. Like they're more willing to accept gay men than, yeah. So then why do we see gay men
00:03:21.800
as more oppressed than straight men when straight men can't even be themselves without following
00:03:26.320
this masculine script? Have you done a video with that one? That's coming up. Okay. That
00:03:29.940
was like, that is a great line of questioning. Wow. Um, no, cause you're totally right. Like
00:03:36.880
people will shame. I mean, I even use the simple and I can't help it. Uh, yeah, but I mean,
00:03:42.320
I think that, uh, it's, it's, it's all about, you know, that's just, you see it everywhere
00:03:48.900
on social media. Women do it. Uh, trad cons do it. Some red pillars do it. It's like, it's
00:03:55.780
like, this is what a real man is supposed to be. And I'm saying, well, why another line
00:04:02.400
of questioning that I've used in, in a, in a past episode was when we talk about what
00:04:06.720
empowers men and what empowers women, why is female empowerment all about liberation
00:04:12.500
and choice while men's empowerment is all about masculinity, duty and sacrifice, which
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is actually the opposite of liberation and choice. How can what empowers one gender be
00:04:23.760
the opposite of what empowers the other? So for women, it's more freedom. And for men,
00:04:28.360
it's more duty and responsibility. And so what's going on here, you know?
00:04:33.080
So what is your goal with your content? Do you have like, um, an end goal that you're
00:04:37.860
hoping to achieve or, uh, I'm just kind of curious what, uh, like in five years you're
00:04:43.340
hoping to get,
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I think that we need to have more honest conversations about what masculinity truly means,
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what, what it means to be a man, what the expectations are of women, what the expectations
00:04:55.100
are of society. Um, I think that what's happening right now is, um, you know, are we going to
00:05:01.260
accept a world of double standards or are we going to try to, you know, level the playing
00:05:06.040
field and actually have equality? Now, what's happening is a lot of times people say, well,
00:05:10.820
men and women can't be equal because we're not the same, but I don't think that's necessarily
00:05:14.940
true because nobody in our society is truly the same, but we should have, you know, different
00:05:20.480
races aren't the same, but we should all have equal rights under the law. We have equal
00:05:25.600
justice. So I think that, you know, just to say that men and women, you know, should there
00:05:32.520
be double standards just because we're not the same? I mean, I understand that, you know,
00:05:36.040
we have different strengths and we have different weaknesses, but I think that, um, you know,
00:05:40.620
to have these, these very strict roles is a very, uh, is a very kind of a strange idea
00:05:46.560
in a society where the laws aren't the same. The technology is different. We're just where
00:05:51.740
it's a completely different culture. And, you know, uh, I think that another question
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I wanted to ask you, actually, I'll, I'll, I'll throw it back at you. Um, if you had to
00:06:01.420
choose, what would you rather see? Would you rather see women go back to the way they were
00:06:06.800
before feminism, or would you rather see men liberated from their masculine role?
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I, I would rather, um, I think the only solution to feminism is more feminism.
00:06:21.860
So I, so, so I only think like when women start getting the same sentences as men,
00:06:28.120
that they might stop like hitting them, for example, right? When they actually start being
00:06:33.220
put in jail or, you know, women with the right to vote when they start actually having consequences
00:06:39.480
for what we vote for instead of being bailed out. Um, that's more what I would like to see. I'd
00:06:45.300
like to see more fair laws where we're actually equal under the law. Okay. Well, for example,
00:06:49.780
um, when we talk about, uh, false, uh, accusations, right? I've heard a lot of people,
00:06:54.140
um, you know, suggest the idea that there should be an equal punishment for a false accusation
00:06:59.700
as if, you know, you were convicted of that accusation, but obviously, yeah, we need to
00:07:04.300
have more accountability, um, or, you know, equal accountability, I guess, for these things,
00:07:09.560
because, you know, if, if, if women don't have skin in the game, there's no incentive. Correct. Yeah.
00:07:15.160
So I think that, um, it, it comes down to the fact that, uh, I think, you know, I don't know if
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it's necessarily, you know, it's going to be a combination of asking more of women and maybe
00:07:24.980
slightly less of men. And also women are having like, I'm one of 10 kids. We're having like one
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and a half. I don't know if that's enough to be a housewife. Well, like one kid, you could go like
00:07:38.140
be a teacher or something. Well, I mean, is it, is it, I read a comment this morning where someone
00:07:42.820
said, is it, is it surprising for women to expect women to want to have children when women are now
00:07:48.220
expected to be in the workforce and providing for even for themselves? Well, yeah, but the average is
00:07:54.880
1.5. Yeah. So to me, I don't, I mean, men still want to have kids, even though they have to work.
00:08:01.580
Right. It's true. Yeah. So I don't, I just don't think women want to be mothers as much as we
00:08:07.200
originally thought, because if we wanted to, we would have. So, so how do you respond then when
00:08:11.980
people say that, you know, women naturally want to be that way? Like, in other words, if it was
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natural, why did it change? I don't think it was. And the reason, you know, it made me come to this
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conclusion. So it was, um, I couldn't believe how mad women got over abortion when I like,
00:08:26.880
it was like, that was the most visceral when I would debate women where they would just get so
00:08:31.100
angry. I'm like, why are you so angry over just a difference in opinion? Um, and I used to fight
00:08:37.000
really hard because, um, my parents like adopted kids. And so pro-life was just something I kind of
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grew up with. Um, but then I just realized that the infant mortality rate is very similar to the
00:08:49.900
abortion rate today. Wow. So that leads, I don't have proof or evidence of this, but just anecdotally
00:08:57.120
arguing with women and seeing how much they just fight to what I would view as abort their children,
00:09:03.480
kill their children. I think it's always been like this. I think it's like now that social media is
00:09:09.480
here. We have like, we can see what women actually are. It's well, it's you disagree or agree? Well,
00:09:16.080
I think that, uh, yeah, I mean, I can see that, but I also think that, um, as far as women wanting
00:09:23.500
to be able to, um, it just comes down to the fact that women want to be able to have the choice to do
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that. I mean, obviously I think that, uh, uh, like I used to always kind of wonder about this. It's like,
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okay, well, the women who are having abortions, do we really want those women reproducing anyway and
00:09:38.520
stuff? Cause they're probably just going to raise more, you know, male feminist children and stuff,
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I guess. So. I mean, I just, I just think it's useless to fight over it. Like they'll just,
00:09:49.260
they'll die. Like I think the pro-life movement, like, yeah, they got Roe versus Wade, but if you
00:09:54.640
think a plan B is an abortion, which they do, I mean, those are like through the roof. Yeah. So I just
00:10:01.020
don't see it going anywhere in my lifetime, but it would be interesting to like, I think men,
00:10:07.120
like we've talked about this, but our men should be able to opt out of child support if women can
00:10:11.300
opt out of motherhood. Like, and that's what I mean. The financial abortion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And
00:10:15.580
that's what I mean. I think the solution to feminism is more feminism. Like we asked to be free. Here you
00:10:21.040
go. Well, the, one of the things that I was looking into was the idea of, uh, back in the seventies.
00:10:28.700
I mean, I'm sure you've heard of Warren Farrell, for example, right? He was, uh, kind of like
00:10:32.860
the father of, of, uh, this men's liberation movement, um, where basically, you know, in the
00:10:40.600
seventies they were trying to, you know, liberate women, but then they were also trying to liberate
00:10:44.400
men. There's actually a famous black and white photo on the internet, um, of a protest where it
00:10:49.620
said, you know, let's share custody. And they wanted mandatory 50, 50 physical custody. And they
00:10:54.120
also wanted, uh, men to be viewed as more than just success objects. Meanwhile, today we're promoting
00:11:01.480
the very opposite of that. We're saying that, uh, men should be success objects. And so I
00:11:08.260
think that, um, maybe revisiting that idea of maybe gender roles can be more fluid or more
00:11:15.080
of a choice as opposed, as opposed to more of an expectation. Um, so what would that look
00:11:21.020
like to you? So like, you know, relationship beginning to end, how would it go? Well, I mean,
00:11:27.000
I think that, uh, um, you know, there are plenty of things that women are capable of that they're
00:11:34.480
not doing just because they believe that that's a man's job, you know, like anything women don't
00:11:38.720
want to do is automatically labeled masculinity, right? I mean, women, women are perfectly capable
00:11:44.940
of approaching men for business, but they won't approach men for relationships. And it's crazy
00:11:51.280
because if women approach men, they're far more likely to have success than if men approach women.
00:11:55.960
Plus women don't like being approached by the men that they're, that they don't like. So we kind of,
00:12:00.460
um, so you'd like to see women approach men. Oh, absolutely. I think that that would,
00:12:04.440
that would definitely, um, but you know, a lot of people will say, Oh, but that, you know,
00:12:07.620
the man is supposed to lead. And it's like, well, you know, the women control the dating market,
00:12:12.080
but the men are somehow the leaders. And it's kind of a weird, you know,
00:12:15.120
they kind of did that in Bumble. Like now that everything's digital, do you think that works?
00:12:18.740
Of course not. Because what is, when a woman messaged you on Bumble, what's, what's her
00:12:22.720
message? Hey, that's all they say to say, Hey, and nothing else. And then they still expect the
00:12:27.000
man to kind of take over. In fact, I even asked a question about this similar. I said,
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okay, if men are expected to protect women because they're physically stronger,
00:12:35.860
why can't women pay all the bills? Why are both duties assigned to the man? So there are plenty of,
00:12:41.100
you know, I mean, cause we still have this, this idea, you know, his money is, is our money and,
00:12:46.540
you know, her money is her money. And I'm saying, okay, well then what are women
00:12:48.700
working for? You know what I mean? So there's plenty of things that women are capable of.
00:12:52.820
And it's like, okay, well then step, step up and prove it. But we're always expecting the men to
00:12:56.620
step up to delusional standards. Men have more, we're asking more of men than has ever been asked
00:13:04.420
in history. And the other thing too, is women's money is way easier to get. It is far easier to
00:13:10.260
make money as a woman because like at 22, you could go be like a pharmacist. Like there are girls
00:13:15.500
from my school that went and made six figures right out of college as a pharmaceutical sales rep.
00:13:20.000
How long would that take a guy to do? Well, women are getting, you know, they have female
00:13:24.320
only scholarships. Women are getting, obviously there was all the DEI stuff. I don't know how
00:13:29.640
that's changing now with the new administration. You also have the, you know, I mean, women,
00:13:36.460
they always have a bailout. They could do OnlyFans if they want to. They, I mean, women, you know,
00:13:41.720
female bartenders, female hostesses, you know, cocktail waitresses in Vegas. I mean,
00:13:46.980
they make a lot of money just because they can use their looks to open a lot of doors.
00:13:52.320
Is that a thing here? I've heard that they, there's like in Vegas, really hot, like broke
00:13:59.000
guys that they're, that they just live off of these bottle girls. Is that a thing?
00:14:03.060
Uh, I, I don't know. It's, it's, it's possible. I mean, I'm sure that you do interviews all
00:14:09.540
the time. You'd never run into anything like that.
00:14:11.560
Uh, not so much, but that would be a good question. Like maybe just kind of find out
00:14:15.100
like, yeah, do you got some, uh, you know, some Chad living with you who, uh, I mean,
00:14:19.620
I mean, look, I've heard some women saying, you know, Oh, you know, I've, I've taken care
00:14:24.440
of men before, but I mean, are women going to take those men seriously for a relationship
00:14:29.120
or are they just looking for an F boy? You know what I mean? So. Yeah. There was a guy
00:14:33.000
I knew in London and that was his play is he went and got really jacked and he would
00:14:39.220
just hit on like 32 year old lawyers and live for free in London. Well, that's the thing
00:14:46.360
also. It's kind of like, yeah, he, he kind of reversed the system where he's like, I'm
00:14:51.240
just going to go to the gym. It's easier than getting a job. Yeah. Well, well, well, well,
00:14:56.620
it's funny too, because, uh, it was kind of like, I remember when I was at the, uh, the,
00:15:00.640
uh, the AVN awards and I was interviewing the sex workers. Um, I asked a question about,
00:15:05.260
uh, if a, uh, unwanted pregnancy happened during the shooting of a professional scene,
00:15:10.680
because obviously sex work is filmed without condoms. Um, then, you know, is there anything
00:15:16.320
that the man can do to avoid being held responsible for child support? And, um, this, uh, woman said
00:15:21.680
to me, well, you know, if, if I get pregnant, then I'm definitely going after that man for
00:15:25.580
child support. And I said, well, actually, since sex worker, female sex workers are getting
00:15:30.300
paid more than male sex workers. Wouldn't you be the one responsible to pay child support?
00:15:35.400
What'd she say? Um, actually, well, it's unfortunate because I didn't think of that at the time. I
00:15:40.120
thought of that after the fact. So that's the thing. Sometimes, um, you know, follow-up questions
00:15:45.340
will come a little bit late. Like, you know, I said, oh, I should have said this or should have
00:15:48.580
said that. But, um, but I did kind of, uh, I don't know. It's just, I think that, um, even when
00:15:54.040
I'm doing like street interviews, sometimes it's like so noisy. I mean, just like, this
00:15:57.800
is one of the noisiest cities. I mean, I'm out on the strip, you know, on, you know, a
00:16:01.400
Friday or Saturday night and you've got motorcycles and helicopters. And sometimes people are like
00:16:05.460
right in front of your face and I can't hear what they're saying. And so there's times
00:16:08.740
where I want to follow up or sometimes I think of, you know, a good follow-up that I
00:16:12.160
couldn't say later. And so, you know, it's just, uh, you know, I'm an evolving creator
00:16:18.300
just like you are and stuff. I'm learning new things, you know, as I grow, if you look at
00:16:21.540
my earliest stuff, I'm thinking, oh, I could have said this. And, you know, so we're all
00:16:26.040
learning. So, okay. So you'd like to see women approach men. Like what other masculine
00:16:30.480
like duties would you say? Would you like men to be like? The idea that the idea that
00:16:34.660
men are expected to be the sole providers or that, you know, or just this, this notion
00:16:39.480
that, you know, I mean, you know, that men have to have all this money. I mean, who's advocating
00:16:45.740
for the average man? Do we want to live in a society where only the top 10, 20%
00:16:51.420
of men get all the women and then the bottom 80% of men are all just celibate? And then
00:16:56.840
what's going to be the incentive for them to want to do anything? And then we're sitting
00:17:01.940
here and we're saying, you know, oh, well, men are weak because they want to stay home
00:17:05.000
and play video games. And it's like, well, what should they do? Go out and be in the
00:17:09.200
social scene and get, you know, abused and get ripped off. So I think that what's happening
00:17:14.620
is I almost believe that the male loneliness epidemic might be by design because I think
00:17:20.440
that, you know, the whole idea that sex sells. And, um, I think kind of like everyone's
00:17:27.500
exploiting men now. Everyone's exploiting that problem. I think that, um, I think that there
00:17:33.440
are feminists exploiting those lonely men to try to sell them only fans. And there are
00:17:37.520
trad cons exploiting those lonely men to try to sell them marriage, which is an unfair
00:17:41.200
deal. And there are dating coaches trying to exploit those lonely men to sell them courses
00:17:46.220
and self-improvement. So I guess how would that, I'm just trying to think of a world,
00:17:53.860
like, do you think that's even possible where, um, men, like women are really going to approach
00:18:00.980
men? Like, you know, I'm not, I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice. I'm just wondering if you
00:18:06.100
think, or that like, um, yeah, go ahead. I think what happens is, is, uh, necessity is
00:18:13.720
the mother of invention. People do what they have to do. Obviously I think that, that the,
00:18:18.520
you know, the reason a lot of men simp is because they kind of have to because men, you know,
00:18:25.220
you ever hear the expression, all men pay. It's like, it's like, even if you're not paying
00:18:28.880
with your money, you pay with your money, energy, attention, and time you men have to earn it. So
00:18:34.880
it's kind of like men just have to play the game and women are the ones who make the rules. And so
00:18:41.420
what ends up happening is, um, I think that it just comes down to a question of who has the leverage
00:18:46.860
right now, women control access to sex. Sex is the ultimate power and women know this and women
00:18:53.900
abuse this. And so men are basically stuck, you know, I mean, men have a higher biological need
00:18:59.860
for sex and women. I think men actually like sex is a need for, for most men. And so, um, I think
00:19:06.640
that in order to kind of like level the playing field, I mean, I'm not necessarily saying like,
00:19:10.900
you know, women have to approach men, but in other words, I believe that women are coming from an
00:19:14.380
abundance mindset. Men are coming from a scarcity mindset. Of course, unless you're like that top,
00:19:18.940
you know, 10% man who has women approaching you. And the whole idea of women approaching is kind
00:19:23.840
of not that far fetched because a lot of these dating coaches want to sculpt men to become that
00:19:29.080
super high value men that women chase. So women will chase the minority of men, but men are chasing
00:19:35.900
the majority of women. So I think what has to happen is there has to be some kind of shift in,
00:19:41.580
in leverage. And I think a big thing that would help that is men being given more access to more
00:19:49.660
sexual access. In other words, I think what's happening right now is everyone's telling men
00:19:52.780
step up and pay a higher price to the point where they're overpaying. I think what we need to focus
00:19:58.820
on is I think we need to figure out ways to lower the price. Um, I've done several episodes on, I think
00:20:06.420
that, that legalization of prostitution. I know it's a very, uh, controversial topic. Not a lot of
00:20:11.680
people talk about it, but I think if prostitution was safe and regulated prostitution, I'm not talking
00:20:17.200
about streetwalkers. I'm talking about if we had brothels and men could go get sex anytime they
00:20:21.160
wanted. I think that women would have to be forced to bring more to the table because sex wouldn't be
00:20:27.120
enough. Do you see that in Vegas? Cause isn't it semi-legal here? Um, not necessarily. It's legal in
00:20:36.660
Pahrump, I believe, or in, uh, Nye County. Uh, it's like a, I think it's like a two hour drive away, but it's
00:20:41.860
not, it's not convenient. It's not affordable. Most people can't afford, you know, a three to five
00:20:47.360
hundred dollar, you know what I mean? But, um, what we have right now is almost worse than prostitution
00:20:52.520
because I think men are paying for the opportunity to maybe get it, but they're not actually getting
00:20:56.300
it. Um, and so I think, you know, I mean, I've even asked the question, you know, if Megan could get
00:21:03.380
sex anytime they want, almost like go to a massage parlor or almost like we have dispensaries for, you know,
00:21:08.760
um, I think that, that if that was available to men, I think they wouldn't, they wouldn't feel the
00:21:15.120
need to, uh, to overpay. They would be more selective because they would, you know, and I
00:21:20.420
think there'd be no reason to be with a woman other than love. And I could actually see that
00:21:24.260
potentially happening. Could you? Well, I mean, why not in Vegas? I mean, yeah, makes the most sense
00:21:30.680
here to start with, but, um, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's, it might be an unfortunate reality
00:21:37.600
that we're headed towards, but I know that trad cons definitely wouldn't like that because it
00:21:41.780
promotes degeneracy according to their, yeah. But if they cared about degeneracy,
00:21:46.160
they would promote young marriage and they don't. Well, yeah. Like if they, if, cause like sex is a
00:21:53.260
need and people are going to have sex with somebody. So if you're not promoting people to get married
00:21:57.960
at, like, when does the sex drive start? Like, I don't even want to say it. Cause we're not like,
00:22:02.740
it's kind of uncomfortable and we're on YouTube, but it's like, it's pretty young. So like, if we're
00:22:07.480
having sex, like urges from the time you're 14, 15, 16 years old, like, you know, even at 22,
00:22:15.980
most people aren't going to be virgins if they have the choice. Yeah. So I'm like, unless you're
00:22:22.360
promoting a young merit, like young marriage, what are people going to do about their sex drives? I was
00:22:27.340
just on a Christian show like five days ago. And I was, it just premiered today actually. And I was
00:22:33.180
arguing with the guys and saying that sex was a need for men and that if Christians like cared
00:22:38.240
about degeneracy, they would push young marriage like 18. Someone told me also that, uh, I think,
00:22:43.960
um, you know, could that possibly even keep marriages together? I mean, it's, it's, someone said
00:22:50.900
something about like, uh, I think it was in Japan where, where married men will go off and go see,
00:22:55.580
you know, concubines or whatever it is, you know, kind of on the side and the wives just don't want
00:23:00.320
to hear about it. Um, but I'm not sure. I mean, it's, you know, should men be stuck in a dead
00:23:06.420
bedroom marriage? You know what I mean? Cause I mean, obviously when we talk about marriages,
00:23:09.660
a lot of times men are hostages within their own marriage and, you know, women are paid to leave
00:23:14.000
and men, you know, it's cheaper to keep her. Oh, I'm not saying that like guys, especially in this
00:23:18.520
climate should get married at 18, but I'm saying if the conservatives cared about degeneracy,
00:23:23.040
they'd push it. Right. Cause then that problem solved. Yeah. I, I kind of, uh, had this question
00:23:28.760
about that. I said, why is it that anything feminists don't like, they label misogyny and
00:23:34.080
anything that, uh, trad cons don't like, they label degeneracy. Oh, wow. That's a good question.
00:23:41.440
That's a good question. So it's just two competing ideologies.
00:23:53.040
Yeah.
00:23:54.500
Yeah.
00:23:56.440
Yeah.
00:23:59.760
Yeah.
00:23:59.860
Yeah.
00:24:01.940
Yeah.
00:24:03.980
Um, yeah.
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