Pearl - Orthodox Deacon Seraphim (Richard) Rohlin, PART TWO ｜ THE SITDOWN

00:00:00.000 Why am I taking the risk to have this conversation?

00:00:03.680 Why would I take the risk to have enter into a relationship with somebody

00:00:07.100 or to put myself under the authority of my bishop?

00:00:10.100 I don't think it's wrong to say that men are above us in terms of their morality,

00:00:15.120 in terms of their intelligence. 0.82

00:00:17.380 Like women don't invent anything. 1.00

00:00:19.400 I believe that women are less than men. 1.00

00:00:21.760 She lived out in the desert by herself for decades. 0.98

00:00:23.580 She survived.

00:00:25.200 My whole project is really asking churches what their thoughts are on obedience.

00:00:30.000 Um, so I really would just love for you to talk about what you guys believe here when

00:00:35.700 it comes to, should women be obedient, um, to their husbands?

00:00:40.900 Yes.

00:00:43.440 Like I said, the biblical teaching is that, uh, the husband gives love and the wife gives

00:00:50.600 honor.

00:00:51.480 Okay. 0.99

00:00:52.660 So do you think it's okay for a woman to tell her husband to do chores? 0.99

00:00:56.580 so if she comes if he comes home can she is she allowed to tell him what to do

00:01:02.800 the way i mean the thing is the way you're framing it i would you know obviously that

00:01:10.360 wouldn't be a healthy marriage that you're describing but in a healthy marriage the

00:01:14.880 husband would notice maybe she needs a little help but would you like tell a woman she's 1.00

00:01:20.360 out of place for telling her husband to do that yeah because we i mean we all know women nag like 1.00

00:01:25.840 old moms, right? They get on the husbands, like, so is that okay? Is it moral? Is it immoral? 1.00

00:01:34.940 Because, like, you would never go to work and tell your boss what to do, so I just wonder 1.00

00:01:38.820 why wives are allowed to do that with husbands. Not saying you guys believe that here, 0.97

00:01:44.060 just a general question. The husband is not a boss in the sense that my boss is a boss.

00:01:51.360 the husband's relationship is more like the relationship between Christ and his church

00:01:56.720 right I mean this is literally again this is what St. Paul says

00:02:00.740 so referring things back to the mystery of the church

00:02:05.640 the husband's role is to give this headship this love protection but also to set directions

00:02:16.960 so in a healthy marriage which is where we need to start again there's there's this thing we do

00:02:23.880 in the west where we we try to derive a rule from the exception but the orthodox that's the rule

00:02:31.100 chores is sorry go ahead so what i'm trying to say is the orthodox approach is to uh what we do is

00:02:37.720 the the rule or our word for this in greek would be canon canon is going to be to draw a fence

00:02:44.820 around what's healthy because we want to keep it healthy okay so so in this in the scenario like i

00:02:52.920 said listen i have to start everything with back in genesis i warned you this is going to happen

00:02:56.060 okay go ahead so you can in the scenario that you're posing what we'd say is that in a healthy

00:03:01.040 marriage the husband would give direction he would lead the family he would say this is what

00:03:08.500 uh this is this is the direction we're going to go in as a family so we're going to worship god

00:03:12.940 together. This is how I want the house to look. This is how we're going to raise our children,

00:03:17.160 things like this. Now, in a healthy marriage, he's not doing this unilaterally because even Christ

00:03:22.920 does not act. Thank you, dear. Even Christ does not act in the world. Ah, yeah, warm bottled

00:03:27.320 water. That's my favorite. No, that's fine. So Christ doesn't even act towards the church in

00:03:33.800 a unilateral way. He lets all these people get involved. Let's us get involved. Let's me get

00:03:39.520 involved right and so um the relationship between christ and the church is not just christ sort of

00:03:46.940 raining thunder down from on high but it's a it's a it's commands given in love protection given in

00:03:54.100 love and then to whatever extent we are the church we embody those things and we actually

00:03:59.700 participate in his work it's the same thing in a healthy marriage right so in a healthy marriage

00:04:04.740 you know I've been married a long time now so I don't usually

00:04:09.520 have I mean there's certain things I just don't have to say but also certain things I just don't

00:04:13.420 think about because they're taken care of it doesn't occur to me until

00:04:17.120 you know you know I have to you know go on a business

00:04:21.180 like where's the next meal coming from and what will it be like these are not things I have to think about

00:04:25.080 so

00:04:29.060 that's the healthy thing that we'd want right is cooperation together

00:04:33.120 right headship and love now the unhealthy situation you're describing that's when it's

00:04:40.620 time to come together as a couple come talk to your spiritual father and and the spiritual father

00:04:47.300 will tell her or him what depends on the couple well i'm laying out the situation so she keeps

00:04:55.540 telling nagging him about chores and saying you don't help me around the house sure i have to do

00:05:00.700 the mental load. Have you heard about that? I know what the words mean. Yeah, yeah. So what's

00:05:07.100 your answer? It really depends on the couple. Like, hopefully these are both two people that

00:05:13.880 I know, not me, I'm not a spiritual father, but let's say somebody is. And so they've been hearing

00:05:18.260 these people's confession for years. They know what's going on with them, right? Well, could be

00:05:23.820 that um that she's nagging and so we need to address that could be that um there's some other

00:05:32.780 pressure that's causing the nagging and if we address the pressure the nagging goes away such

00:05:37.040 as health issues you need a little more help things like this right you know there's a lot

00:05:43.160 of things uh a lot of a lot of things can be smoothed over in marriage if you just sort of

00:05:48.140 figure out how much can you bear for each other, right? And so sometimes it's a helpful thing to

00:05:56.640 say, okay, we need to get somebody to come in and help with the cleaning once a week,

00:06:00.340 which is a normal thing, which most people in most periods of history have had somebody to do

00:06:05.460 that, right? So there's a weird thing now, especially in kind of Christian circles, where

00:06:10.600 if you have somebody who comes over and helps out a little bit, you sort of feel like you're

00:06:13.980 like a failure as a wife or failure as a mother and stuff like this and so that's so that might 0.96

00:06:18.440 be one thing i would suggest can he just tell her to shut up woman like just shut up woman is that 0.97

00:06:24.460 okay i grew up i grew up in religious communities i think it'd be heaven on earth if more husbands 0.94

00:06:32.700 told their wives to shut up well i would never talk to my wife in that way okay but is it immoral

00:06:39.120 if a guy wants to?

00:06:49.040 In a hypothetical situation, it's very hard to judge the intent of the heart.

00:06:56.680 But when St. John Chrysostom, for instance, speaks about how should husbands treat their

00:07:01.600 wives and speak to them, and how should wives treat their husbands and speak to them, in

00:07:07.140 In a healthy marriage, you wouldn't speak to each other in that way, nor would it ever 1.00

00:07:10.580 be necessary.

00:07:11.580 Right.

00:07:12.580 But that'd be healthy according to you, right?

00:07:15.280 But like to him, he might think it's healthy.

00:07:17.760 But it's healthy according to Christ.

00:07:19.760 Right.

00:07:20.760 But there could be a different interpretation of the Bible.

00:07:24.200 Maybe he, you know, maybe he feels that he's allowed to talk that way.

00:07:27.780 So, you know, it's just because I'm just being honest when it sounds like tone policing another

00:07:32.140 guy.

00:07:33.140 Like that's kind of what it sounds like to me.

00:07:34.600 I'm not tone policing anybody.

00:07:36.600 the concept right because like i keep hearing this like um it's well if they're doing it in a healthy

00:07:45.800 way no yeah what i'm saying is if i heard somebody speak to his wife in this way i would assume

00:07:54.360 that's not a healthy marriage okay yeah that would be my assumption but then i would say

00:07:59.640 i don't know what's going on i hate to judge you know those those little checks that you have

00:08:04.280 but yeah of course you shouldn't speak to your wife in that way. Okay so what

00:08:08.480 happens if you and the husband disagree who should the wife listen to or it

00:08:13.040 could be maybe a different church authority but if the church authority

00:08:16.940 says one thing and a husband says another who should the wife listen to?

00:08:22.640 It depends on what the thing is so I do really think there are certain things

00:08:29.080 that as a couple like you get a spiritual father involved if you need

00:08:33.740 help, but really, you know, like you, you have the authority within your own home as a couple

00:08:38.840 to sort these things out. Right. So I don't, I don't consult my priest on like every purchase

00:08:42.940 that I make or something like this. Like I don't constantly text him. It was like, I was thinking

00:08:46.080 about buying a new suburban. I don't know what do you, you know, unless I'm just talking to him as

00:08:49.820 a friend. Right. Um, right. But okay. Parenting style. Yeah. A common disagreement is men want

00:08:58.140 to discipline. Women say that it's abusive or it's too much. It's X, Y, and Z. Maybe

00:09:05.820 you agree with the wife when you hear it. Should he listen to you or should she listen 1.00

00:09:10.640 to you or should she listen to her husband?

00:09:12.760 Well, again, nobody should listen to me except in the context that I've been given authority

00:09:17.340 to teach.

00:09:18.560 You are another church authority. That's my question.

00:09:21.300 So if you're asking, we're having trouble with disciplining the children and we're

00:09:26.460 to go to our priest and say, how do we handle this? Correct. And he tells us something. He agrees

00:09:32.020 with the woman. It's really just going back to the obedience question. Right. Because when it 0.98

00:09:36.940 comes down to it, is she supposed to obey the husband or the priest or the church authority?

00:09:43.740 Ultimately, I should obey the priest. Okay. So you would say she should listen to the priest.

00:09:49.020 It depends on the situation. Well, it's kind of like a workaround answer.

00:09:53.220 I don't intend it that way

00:09:55.300 this is why I've tried to really make the point

00:09:58.620 all of this is contexted

00:10:00.180 and I'm never going to give you

00:10:02.780 the answer that's going to satisfy you

00:10:04.300 I know that

00:10:05.560 I'm trying in good faith

00:10:09.080 to explain why that's the case

00:10:10.820 but

00:10:11.980 it's

00:10:13.500 we don't deal with people

00:10:17.160 in general

00:10:17.800 we deal with specific people

00:10:20.680 we deal with specific people

00:10:23.020 And one of the things that we believe in is the activity of the Holy Spirit in the church.

00:10:28.800 Right.

00:10:29.340 And that activity is revealed through different or diverse orders.

00:10:36.760 So we have the bishops or the authorities of the church.

00:10:41.420 And then the bishops have their various charisms that they can delegate to people like presbyters, deacons, subdeacons, readers, etc.

00:10:51.740 but also within a family there are also different charisms that are given so i as i as a faithful

00:11:01.240 son of the church at the end of the day i should not do something without a blessing if it's not

00:11:09.160 worthy of a blessing right and so there would be certain things that i would before i did them like

00:11:15.980 well i'm not sure if this is the right thing to do or not i better get a blessing right in the same

00:11:20.440 way, in my relationship with my wife, right, I've been married long enough. I know what healthy

00:11:26.940 marriage looks like. I know what I look like when I'm unhealthy. I know what my family looks like

00:11:30.780 when we're unhealthy, right? So I'm going to make decisions that are in the direction of health.

00:11:36.940 In the case of this couple, if you have a good spiritual father, then he's going to bring,

00:11:42.500 steer the couple in the direction of health. And sometimes this will mean the wife needs to

00:11:46.700 submit and sometimes doesn't mean the husband needs to soften his heart he needs to turn towards

00:11:51.960 christ right so that he can be the proper head of his family so there are instances where she

00:11:57.620 should listen to the priest and not her husband or the the church father yes okay because like

00:12:04.000 hypothetically such an instance well because i think i think one deterrent a lot of people have

00:12:09.440 from joining a church is that essentially the church um flawed people get authority over his

00:12:16.160 home when like I was talking to someone I know that's an atheist and he's one of like just

00:12:23.860 morally the best people I know where you'd think he'd be religious right and I meet guys like this

00:12:29.140 all the time where they're just very they're not religious but they behave in a really moral way

00:12:35.240 and I kind of asked him like why and he just didn't like the idea of another man telling him

00:12:41.360 what to do in his own house. Um, especially when, um, you know, there's scandals in churches all

00:12:47.580 the time. I don't know if this one's one of them, but like, um, the Catholic had the priest scandal,

00:12:53.400 um, the pastors come out having affairs and it's like, so don't you think by that logic that

00:13:01.460 another man has authority in your own house? I mean, I'm a deacon of the Orthodox church,

00:13:07.140 so I can't even leave town without traveling papers like if we don't have obedience we don't

00:13:15.140 have anything a lot of the questions that you are asking seem to me I could be wrong about this

00:13:21.000 seem to be aimed at trying to say how could we create a system which is going to be totally

00:13:27.720 free from pain right and one of the ways that we try to do this is to cut ourselves off from

00:13:34.320 relationships that potentially have this possibility of bringing pain into my life

00:13:39.360 of course everything that I do has the potential of like every even this conversation right now

00:13:47.720 I'm taking a risk doing this I have no idea how you're going to edit this how you're going to put

00:13:52.020 it up how you're going to spin it I'm not impugning you but I'm just saying this is a this is a risk

00:13:56.400 I'm taking a little risk why am I taking the risk to have this conversation why would I take the

00:14:02.160 risk to have enter into a relationship with somebody or to put myself under the authority

00:14:06.520 of my bishop well because i it's because i believe it's going to be for some healing

00:14:12.080 right now my particular vocation is the church called me to do a particular role bishop put his

00:14:18.420 hands on my head he called down the holy spirit upon me to fill me and fill all the parts of me

00:14:25.000 that are missing and lacking so that i can do this work right similarly the holy spirit is present

00:14:31.320 at a wedding he's present in a christian marriage right and uh so yes is does does another man have

00:14:39.440 authority in my home obviously yes that would be it uh but that's true for everyone like if you

00:14:46.620 live in the united states of america there's another man many of them going many many many

00:14:52.220 many ranks up in government who has authority in your home stop paying your taxes and see what

00:14:56.000 happens right you can't live in relationship with other people without some form of obedience yeah

00:15:01.840 no i totally agree with you however um i think the issue is the men have all of the responsibility of

00:15:08.000 the family but they don't have total authority in this country like they just don't the kids

00:15:13.380 belong to the woman and it's only if she decides to stay there's a lot of systemic issues correct

00:15:19.240 for sure and that's totally out of the church's control but but this is this is you know again

00:15:23.820 we this is the the the the society that we live in correct so what are we doing here well again

00:15:30.260 this is the hospital right one of the things you have to do if you want treatment is you have to

00:15:35.800 listen to the doctor right so i'm under more authority actually than a normal orthodox man

00:15:42.240 would be yeah but if i'm going to listen to a doctor you know i get a few decisions right like

00:15:47.660 Usually, if I want a treatment, I've got to pick between two or three.

00:15:50.560 It's that way with a priest, too, though.

00:15:52.620 The priest is not, again, he's not sitting on top of Sinai throwing down thunderbolts.

00:15:59.700 He's a guy that you know.

00:16:01.180 You've been going to him for confession for a long time.

00:16:03.620 So first of all, if he's a good priest, and we have a good priest here, if he's a good

00:16:06.760 priest, then he's going to give advice that will be for your healing, and then basically

00:16:12.000 you'll be able to decide whether or not you're going to take it, and I can tell you what

00:16:16.040 should do, which is almost always going to be, well, listen to the guy because he really loves

00:16:19.620 you, and this is the person God has put in your life to be in this role. Like, again, do I believe

00:16:24.380 in God or not? Do I trust the Holy Spirit or not? But at the end of the day, as soon as you walk out

00:16:29.440 those doors, you can decide whether or not you will obey. Yeah, well, I think just things that

00:16:34.420 I witnessed growing up was a lot of women would use the Bible to beat their husbands with when 0.98

00:16:40.980 they really shouldn't, in my opinion, have the authority to do that. So it's like it's not really

00:16:45.880 her job to police her husband and sometimes like the issue you get with women is we just lie a lot 0.94

00:16:51.860 more and we're very deceptive like it's just that's how the whole me too movement happened 0.77

00:16:56.200 right so what I've seen I can't say that this is here is that women go to the the priest or

00:17:03.020 whatever tell a very convoluted version of the story he takes her at her word and then

00:17:08.160 the husband gets browbeat because he's honest and I don't think that's an exception I would say

00:17:14.380 that's really really common if yeah i mean again if you're saying here's a bad thing that happens

00:17:20.760 i'm like of course yeah bad things happen that's why we're here well it's more just asking how do

00:17:27.580 you prevent that you know so so yeah again the way that you prevent prevent it is by having a

00:17:33.040 healthy christian marriage right you know so so again i'm not trying to come up with what's the

00:17:40.900 punishment necessary to disincentivize this behavior that's a western way of thinking it's

00:17:45.820 just not how we think in the orthodox church what i am doing instead is trying to say what is the

00:17:50.500 fence we put around the garden how do we keep the garden well if you do that if you are really moved

00:17:55.460 by love then you don't need that i wish that was true but women like eve wasn't happy in the garden

00:18:02.400 of eden you know you could have a healthy christian marriage and the woman decides one day that it's 0.99

00:18:07.240 not healthy. And again, I don't really like saying that that's an exception because that's 0.85

00:18:12.100 normal. That's like when the average marriage is eight years in this country, like that's a

00:18:18.660 normal thing that happens. I see it all the time. So, you know, my question for the church is like, 0.60

00:18:28.380 how do you prevent that if the man doesn't have full authority?

00:18:32.140 so just to be clear the question you're asking is how does the church prevent behavior if the church

00:18:43.760 I guess has authority let me let me phrase it what's in it for men to get married if they

00:18:50.300 don't have authority in their home it's a super weird way of framing that

00:18:57.360 well I don't think it is but that's okay I mean I just just what's in it you're like what does he

00:19:05.380 get out of it if he doesn't if he has all the responsibility without the authority well first

00:19:09.840 of all he doesn't have all the responsibility there's more than one person in a marriage

00:19:14.480 nobody's saying that that's a false dichotomy which you're creating I just want to be very

00:19:19.180 clear that's not how we think of marriage in the orthodox church okay secondly what's in it is

00:19:25.120 salvation. That's what we're here doing. That's what, if you came to an Orthodox wedding, that's

00:19:31.520 what you would hear in the prayers. Why are we coming together? Well, for various things. The

00:19:36.740 world must be peopled, Shakespeare, right? But also we're coming together for the salvation

00:19:41.700 and the prosperity and the joy of these two people. Like, like the, the part of, part of the

00:19:49.240 difficulty here is that uh the western mindset as opposed to like eastern europe is that it

00:19:59.760 let's say the christian east okay um like okay all of this okay okay uh the western mindset is

00:20:10.060 one that is based is focused mainly on power dynamics who has the power how can we distribute

00:20:15.620 the power who's got the power what's in it for me if I if I give some of the power up right

00:20:22.400 that seems to be the framework you're coming from I could be wrong but that seems to be the

00:20:27.340 framework you're coming from it's not an orthodox framework you know the thing we're focused on is

00:20:33.820 life so what do you have to do to keep something alive what do you have to do for something to

00:20:41.180 grow and to be healthy. Okay. Could you tell me what they would have to do for it to grow and be

00:20:46.840 healthy? It depends on the couple. Okay. I know that's not a satisfying answer for you or your 0.76

00:20:52.060 audience. I understand that, but it really depends on the couple. It depends on the couple. You know,

00:20:56.100 going back to her scenario, okay, she's nagging him about the chores. There's eight different

00:21:01.080 things that it might be. Probably saying shut up woman is not going to be one of the things 1.00

00:21:09.540 that leads to that marriage becoming healthier 1.00

00:21:12.800 and those people drawing closer together.

00:21:15.180 Now, what is the thing that that couple needs?

00:21:19.520 Well, again, what's the context?

00:21:22.680 What's the context?

00:21:25.680 So this is the problem.

00:21:28.480 You've got a framework here for your questions,

00:21:30.180 but it's not an orthodox framework,

00:21:32.440 and so it's very hard to give a good orthodox answer to it

00:21:34.800 that's going to really satisfy you.

00:21:36.040 there are circumstances that i know about where i could say here's what we'd have done but

00:21:42.100 those are not the business of people on the internet so i can't talk about them in this

00:21:45.980 context okay what do you guys think of um women taught bible studies are you guys okay with them

00:21:54.280 you should have begun by asking what do we think of bible studies no women taught

00:22:00.620 who's got authority to teach the scriptures um i don't know here hopefully hopefully men

00:22:08.820 that's what i'm hoping the bishop okay has the authority to rightly divide the word of truth

00:22:13.680 he can delegate that teaching authority to people traditionally you know his presbyters and deacons

00:22:21.200 but he delegates that teaching authority to people in the church so again the orthodox

00:22:27.200 question is going to be, do you have a blessing to teach? Who gave you authority to teach?

00:22:33.840 Even doing this right now, I have a blessing to have this conversation with you.

00:22:40.900 It's funny because even the thing you're doing, the orthodox question would be, who gave you a

00:22:45.560 blessing to do this? I know you're not orthodox, so it doesn't apply to you. I get that. But what

00:22:50.140 I'm saying is, what we'd say about any Bible study would be, who gave you a blessing to teach?

00:22:58.520 Is it blessed? Is there oversight? Do you guys give women blessings to teach?

00:23:02.620 It happens sometimes. It's not super common. So it's mostly male and on occasion female?

00:23:07.040 Well, in this parish, the preaching is done by clergy. We have Bible studies. We've had women's

00:23:14.380 book clubs from time to time and things like that, just with a blessing. We have clergy wives, 0.76

00:23:21.420 matushki. Matushka means mother, right? And so we have senior women within the church who are 0.96

00:23:29.340 able to take this role to, as the scriptures command, the older women raising up the younger

00:23:35.600 women and teaching them what it means to live the Christian life. So we definitely have women

00:23:40.100 take this role. It just has to be done with a blessing. I believe that women are less than men 1.00

00:23:48.820 in terms of pretty much everything. I don't think we're as smart. I don't think we do as much for 1.00

00:23:56.280 society, and I don't think we're as useful or needed. Do you think that's wrong? Yes. Why?

00:24:01.860 Why? Because back in Genesis, God made man and woman, male and female, in his image and likeness.

00:24:15.080 So there's no human being who does not bear the image of Christ. The greatest Christian to ever

00:24:22.640 live was the mother of God. She's done more miracles. She's had a longer and more glorious

00:24:31.100 career in the church since her repose than any other human being who's ever lived. She's more

00:24:37.500 loved than any other human being who's ever lived, and she is for us the fulfillment of womanhood.

00:24:44.780 You mentioned Eve a couple of times, but here's the thing about Eve.

00:24:50.300 Eve, in the same way that Adam is a type, Eve is also a type. So going back to those apostolic

00:24:57.420 fathers we mentioned. What they say is that Mary is the new Eve. So a little typology

00:25:05.680 here in Genesis. Woman is taken out of man's side. So the first Eve is taken out of the 0.94

00:25:12.920 side of the first Adam. But in the Gospel, the second Adam is taken out of the womb of 0.76

00:25:19.580 the second Eve. And in the Gospel according to St. John, the first few days of the Gospel

00:25:27.260 are laid out in direct parallel to the first week of creation,

00:25:32.460 culminating in this event right here,

00:25:35.440 the wedding at Cana.

00:25:37.880 The wedding at Cana blows away so much

00:25:41.880 of our expectations about how things are supposed to work,

00:25:47.700 not just between men and women, but between everything,

00:25:50.220 between humans and God.

00:25:52.980 At the wedding at Cana, the tradition is, by the way,

00:25:56.620 that the bride and groom there,

00:25:58.940 that the groom is one of Christ's disciples,

00:26:00.720 one of his younger disciples.

00:26:02.060 So Christ goes to the wedding 0.67

00:26:03.420 and his mother is probably helping out in the kitchen,

00:26:06.500 kind of directing things back there.

00:26:08.160 And so at some point she comes to him

00:26:09.540 and as we have shown in the icon right here,

00:26:12.200 she says, they have no wine.

00:26:15.580 Now, what's really interesting

00:26:17.420 is that in the Middle Ages,

00:26:19.300 for instance, you see this in Dante's Purgatorio.

00:26:21.860 In the Middle Ages, they saw this moment

00:26:23.780 as actually a moment of supreme charity overcoming envy and they're like well what does it have to

00:26:30.860 do with this well because we all know some woman you know somebody in our life who if she was at a

00:26:38.760 party and they ran out of an essential thing you'd immediately hear uh well you know if i'd been in 1.00

00:26:43.960 charge of the party i would have done i would have done a much better job right so she's lying 0.95

00:26:49.160 But she doesn't do this. She doesn't do this. She comes to Christ and she says, 0.94

00:26:53.980 she just sees a need. She sees the shame, the embarrassment they're about to feel. And even

00:26:58.140 though it's a very small social embarrassment in the grand scheme of things, she comes to him and

00:27:02.160 she says, we have no wine. And then he says this very strange thing to her. Okay. What he says to

00:27:07.740 her is, in Greek, it's literally, woman, what is this between you and me? Now, there's two important

00:27:15.080 things here, which I'll have to take in turn. First thing is he calls her woman. Well, what

00:27:20.280 day of creation are we on? Well, we're on the sixth day, because this is the sixth day in the

00:27:24.740 chronology of St. John's Gospel. So it's the sixth day after his baptism, which is the remaking of

00:27:30.520 the cosmos, right? The Holy Spirit hovering over the deep. So it's the sixth day. Well, what happens

00:27:36.500 when God takes Eve out of Adam's side? He says he called her woman. And then he says, and then he

00:27:44.460 named her Eve, a woman because she was taken out of man, and then Eve because she was the mother

00:27:48.360 of all things living. Now, hold on, I'm almost there. So he says to her, woman, what is this

00:27:54.260 between you and me? Well, that second part is a quote from the Old Testament. It's the story

00:28:02.020 of the widow at Zarephath. Short version of the story, there's this widow living in Tyre and

00:28:07.320 Sidon, and the prophet Elijah comes to stay with her for a while, and one day her son dies. And

00:28:12.000 She comes to him and she says, what is this between us, man of God?

00:28:16.200 Like, in other words, what have I done to tick you off?

00:28:18.460 Like, why is my son dead?

00:28:19.780 So he goes and he stretches himself out over the sun and he breathes into him three times

00:28:26.480 and brings him back to life.

00:28:28.380 So what could that three times possibly be referring to?

00:28:31.880 But in any case, stretches himself out, by the way, in the shape of a cross over him.

00:28:37.100 So Christ is quoting this story to his mother.

00:28:38.840 What is she saying?

00:28:39.500 What is he saying?

00:28:40.000 he's saying, if you ask me to do this now, you are going to set in motion a chain of events which

00:28:48.620 will result in the death of your only son. So is this really what you want? And she just turns to

00:28:54.540 the servants and she says, do whatever he tells you. She is once again giving her yes. As she

00:29:01.640 gave her yes for him to be made flesh, now she gives her yes for him to begin the ministry which

00:29:06.640 is going to result in the greatest sorrow of her life. Three years later, standing at the foot of

00:29:11.640 the cross, he looks down and he says to John, the beloved disciple, who we show right here on this

00:29:18.100 side of the icon of the crucifixion, he says, son, behold your mother, mother, behold your son.

00:29:26.500 So in Genesis, Eve is named woman, and then she's named mother. And in the gospel, according to St.

00:29:35.020 John, the mother of God is named woman. So she's the new type of womanhood and then mother as the

00:29:41.560 fulfillment of that type. Well, but why is it wrong to believe that men are above us and more

00:29:46.740 competent? Like they're, if I look at society and I look at men and women, it just seems like

00:29:55.560 women are doing the wrong thing, aborted an eighth of the world population. That's crazy. 0.98

00:29:59.920 Like you've heard that a third of Gen Z has been aborted. And it seems like whenever women get 0.68

00:30:04.260 power, we just do the wrong thing, where when men get power, they seem to do the right thing. 0.81

00:30:10.240 50-50. No, I would say it's not 50-50 at all. I think, like, think about how crazy it is. It's

00:30:15.600 quite possible you and I would disagree on what the right thing is as well. Well, I'll give you

00:30:19.260 an example. Think about how crazy it is that one out of three women you've met has had an abortion.

00:30:23.880 It means one out of three women commit murder. So? So, like, I don't think it's wrong to say

00:30:30.620 that men are above us in terms of their morality, in terms of their intelligence. Like women don't

00:30:36.480 invent anything. We don't really do much things that are useful. And it seems like the way the 1.00

00:30:41.900 world, and I'm not that religious, I just go based off of what I see, but it seems like the world 0.86

00:30:46.580 works when women listen to men and that men build the world. And that the only way it works is that 0.97

00:30:53.580 when women listen to the men, 1.00

00:30:56.360 because I believe they're superior to us. 1.00

00:30:58.940 So you have a good case of what a friend of mine

00:31:02.760 would call Plato brain.

00:31:04.180 Okay.

00:31:05.020 Do you know much about, okay.

00:31:07.640 So is this idea that something,

00:31:12.360 let's say higher up the ladder is better

00:31:16.300 than something lower down the ladder.

00:31:18.940 So you've confused position with worth.

00:31:23.580 well like higher in intelligence higher in morality right what does intelligence matter

00:31:29.760 um like like like well we could say morality if you want to make it a spiritual thing

00:31:35.880 morality is yeah morality is so downstream from spirituality really yeah so much so like like

00:31:42.600 it's the it's sort of like the least thing morality is the least thing of spirituality

00:31:47.680 Yeah, I mean, that's the children's spirituality.

00:31:52.140 Okay.

00:31:53.080 I mean, okay, let's just take...

00:31:54.480 What we're talking about here is being invited into the very life of God.

00:31:58.640 Right.

00:31:59.180 I just imagine you'd have to live in a moral way to get that.

00:32:02.920 That is part of it, but that's what I'm saying.

00:32:04.580 That's the bottom rung of the ladder.

00:32:07.080 Okay.

00:32:08.260 So the question is, when we're talking about the value of something in Orthodox terms,

00:32:13.480 to what degree does it participate in the life of God right that's what all this context is about

00:32:20.100 well what I'm telling you is that a woman has participated in the life of God

00:32:26.080 at a greater degree than any other human being who's ever lived and that is the dogmatic teaching

00:32:32.860 of the orthodox church there's absolutely no wiggle room on that right I'm not discounting

00:32:37.880 Mary but I'm just saying women in general today men you know I don't do that word in general

00:32:43.020 Well, to me, a lot of times it seems like that's kind of just a way to evade a question.

00:32:49.200 I get what you're saying. 0.99

00:32:50.160 I'm really sorry, but it's just true.

00:32:52.260 It's just true. 0.92

00:32:53.200 You're asking, are women worth less than men?

00:32:57.580 The answer is categorically, according to any Christian doctrine, the answer is categorically no.

00:33:01.900 It doesn't necessarily mean that, like, okay, I think that women are above children, 0.69

00:33:09.600 but it doesn't mean they're like, it doesn't mean the children are worthless, but the women 1.00

00:33:13.680 have to, the children have to listen to the women. I think women, and because the mothers are more 1.00

00:33:19.100 competent, at least when they're young. I think men are more competent than women. It's not to

00:33:23.760 say that women are like evil or, well, sort of, but it's not to say that, it's just to say that

00:33:30.400 men are superior to us in terms of intelligence and in terms of morality. It seems like the way 1.00

00:33:36.880 the world works, that God comes through the men, and the only way that women act in a moral way is 0.99

00:33:43.300 if the men pass that on to the women. That seems to be... There was that time when God came through 0.95

00:33:48.240 a woman, though. And maybe you could say Mary, right? So there's once, but just in general,

00:33:54.040 most women I meet, the only way they're moral is if they have a strong husband or a strong father.

00:34:00.400 Other than that, it seems to be abortion... What you really said, though, was the only 0.81

00:34:05.460 way that that people are healthy is when they're in a healthy family I would of course agree with 0.84

00:34:11.740 that yes but that would still put women below men and I'm just curious some some churches agree with 0.74

00:34:18.960 that some don't again yeah what do you mean by below like below men in terms of morality 0.84

00:34:23.640 intelligence you are if you were asking me do I think women are more sinful than men yeah more

00:34:30.660 sinful i have no way of measuring that really i have eyes i'm naked in the street third a third

00:34:37.780 you got to think about a third of gen z has been aborted i don't think a third of men would commit

00:34:42.100 murder i don't well and and like even if you look at queens and kings right like queens are more

00:34:47.840 likely um to rage um to go into war than kings so it just seems like whenever women get into power

00:34:56.460 were incredibly violent and men white men in particular are incredibly kind and considerate

00:35:02.500 and um they tend to do the right thing and i've just noticed this how does this make you feel

00:35:07.100 about what you're doing um it makes me feel great because i think there's not enough people talking

00:35:12.940 about it so it makes me feel awesome interesting yeah interesting um and like i don't think you

00:35:21.240 know if a kid i don't think if so you're talking about the again if if you asked me do you believe

00:35:28.480 that the world is hierarchical yeah i believe that way more than you do okay 100 of course

00:35:34.780 there's lots of different hierarchies they overlap the family is one of those correct and this

00:35:40.920 normal healthy family hierarchy is husband wife children of course does that mean they're that

00:35:49.000 they're worth less in the eyes of God? Does that mean that they're less capable of sanctity? They're

00:35:54.680 less capable of becoming a saint? Again, answer is no. So really, you're asking me two different

00:36:00.760 questions there. I'm just going off what I see in the world, right? And it just seems like men

00:36:07.100 are more moral than women, naturally. It's just what it seems like to me. What's the value of 0.96

00:36:15.180 natural morality if you don't know God? It seems like even the men I know that don't know God

00:36:21.660 still behave in a moral way, where the women just seem to... Very nice. Historically, it's not always

00:36:26.860 been the case. Right, but the issue I have with, because, you know, I've just interviewed a lot

00:36:33.120 of people that have really gone in depth into history, and I think the best way you can come

00:36:37.500 to conclusions without being manipulated is look in the now. Not to say that history is not

00:36:41.500 important but again being that I've interviewed people like yourself that I'm sure have done a

00:36:47.500 ton of research into history you guys all have very different conclusions so just as a normal

00:36:52.280 person I have to go with off of what I see now you know and I think that's how most like people

00:36:58.900 come to their conclusions like if you hear something and it matches what you see in the

00:37:02.920 world that's that's how you form an opinion you know like I have a friend that became a vegan

00:37:09.440 it was because he started eating vegan and I wouldn't do that right but now he's a vegan guy

00:37:14.900 okay okay you're not following you think it's okay you can say what you think

00:37:19.640 I'm gonna just grab I have a few more questions and I just don't want to forget but go ahead

00:37:26.780 I want to nitpick but I'm not gonna nitpick you can nitpick let's just say let's just say that

00:37:30.920 let's just say that easily offended you can nitpick it's fine let's just say that that that

00:37:35.840 is the world hierarchical?

00:37:39.140 Yes.

00:37:40.440 I believe that so strongly.

00:37:42.720 I voluntarily put myself

00:37:44.500 into a hierarchy,

00:37:46.100 right, and making my life much more complicated

00:37:48.660 than it should be, because not only am I

00:37:50.620 the head of my home, but the bishop is the head

00:37:52.620 of my church, and Christ

00:37:54.500 is the head of his church, and so on,

00:37:56.880 right? So yeah,

00:37:58.580 there's a hierarchy. It goes all the way up,

00:38:00.620 and it goes all the way down. Okay.

00:38:02.060 I think we agree. I think?

00:38:04.720 I think the place where I would disagree with what you're saying is that something has changed with the entry of Jesus Christ into the human experience.

00:38:21.800 And the thing that has changed is sanctity, which used to belong to something like a privileged few, the door has now been opened to every single human being.

00:38:32.540 you have that opportunity. I have that opportunity. And we're not going to, we don't experience that

00:38:39.080 sanctity simply by pursuing a moral life, which is why to me, it's not that morality is not

00:38:44.880 important. It's not that I don't believe abortion is murder, because I certainly believe that.

00:38:48.900 But when you tell me somebody's a murderer, what I want to do is go...

00:38:53.100 Thrum in jail.

00:38:54.520 And heal that person.

00:38:57.160 So one of our greatest saints, St. Mary of Egypt, up here in the upper right-hand corner,

00:39:03.500 We read her life every Lent, read it together here in the church. 0.77

00:39:08.940 She lived an incredibly profligate life,

00:39:12.060 so much so that sometimes when I'm reading that story in church,

00:39:14.300 I'm like a little, is there weird terms to be using in church?

00:39:18.620 She lived this incredibly profligate life,

00:39:20.680 and then one day she wanted to enter the church in Jerusalem

00:39:26.080 in order to see a piece of the Holy Cross of the Lord,

00:39:29.280 which had been brought there.

00:39:30.080 And as she approaches the doors of the temple, the Mother of God turns her away and won't let her enter.

00:39:36.460 She tries to enter three times.

00:39:37.500 She can't enter.

00:39:38.560 Finally, she goes in front of the Mother of God, and she prays this amazing prayer of repentance.

00:39:43.180 And then she goes out into the desert, and she never comes back.

00:39:46.140 The only reason we know about her is because one day, eventually.

00:39:50.760 So she just lived by herself?

00:39:52.740 She lived out in the desert by herself for decades.

00:39:54.580 And she survived?

00:39:55.640 Decades, for decades.

00:39:56.780 The way that we know about her— 0.68

00:39:57.880 I cannot imagine a woman just surviving.

00:39:59.600 Is that there was a monk.

00:40:02.580 Yeah.

00:40:03.280 There was a monk.

00:40:04.120 Oh, she found a monk to help her.

00:40:05.680 Who?

00:40:06.200 I knew.

00:40:06.780 Okay, sorry.

00:40:07.440 Go ahead.

00:40:09.360 There was this monk named Zosimus.

00:40:11.060 And Zosimus was the abbot of his own monastery, super holy dude, doing all the things, fasting

00:40:16.280 like you wouldn't believe, staying up all night, praying, never sleeping.

00:40:20.020 And so he just sort of says one day to God, I think I found it the summit of perfection.

00:40:24.100 And I'm a little discouraged about this because I just can't see anybody getting holier than

00:40:27.660 me.

00:40:28.760 So God says, I want you to go to this one monastery in Palestine.

00:40:34.840 So Joseph Smith goes there.

00:40:36.040 Turns out everybody at the monastery is more hardcore than he is.

00:40:38.860 He's like, okay, okay, okay, I get it.

00:40:40.460 But his lesson's not done.

00:40:41.820 Because what they would do at this monastery,

00:40:43.800 and this is going to be the origin of Lent,

00:40:44.840 what they would do at this monastery is at the beginning of Lent,

00:40:48.620 so the 40-day-plus-some period before Pascha, Easter,

00:40:53.920 the monks would each take a single loaf of bread,

00:40:56.120 and they would prostrate in front of each other,

00:41:00.880 ask each other's forgiveness,

00:41:02.460 and then they would go in separate directions.

00:41:05.240 And some of them would make it back alive for Easter

00:41:07.080 and others would die in the desert.

00:41:09.040 This is what they did every year. 0.84

00:41:09.960 And the woman made it? 0.77

00:41:11.480 So he goes and he crosses the Jordan

00:41:14.980 and he goes out into the desert.

00:41:17.280 And they're out there in the desert.

00:41:18.540 He suddenly sees what at first he assumes

00:41:20.520 is like a spirit or a wraith or something like this. 1.00

00:41:22.340 But it's this emaciated woman 0.82

00:41:23.980 who's been living in the desert for decades on essentially nothing.

00:41:30.060 And he meets her, and she quotes the scriptures to him

00:41:34.140 even though she's never read or heard them

00:41:35.660 because Christ himself has taught her the words of life.

00:41:39.820 She floats in the air.

00:41:41.000 She walks across water.

00:41:42.380 She does all these things.

00:41:43.760 And he realizes this is actually who I was sent to meet.

00:41:47.560 And the thing we'd say about her is the reason that she's a saint

00:41:53.400 And the reason that we read her life at that moment in the annual life of the church

00:41:59.140 is not because she was a paradigmatically moral person.

00:42:03.760 Somebody goes out there and they find morality that's great for them.

00:42:08.440 I appreciate it if somebody was to share the world with you.

00:42:12.040 I'm not interested in it.

00:42:14.540 What I'm interested in is what Mary did in the desert, which was to find true repentance.

00:42:22.200 So if a man has a wife or a woman that he's interested in church

00:42:27.760 and she lies about her past, is that a case for an annulment?

00:42:33.120 How did you get there from the story that I was just telling?

00:42:36.160 No, it was just my next question.

00:42:37.600 Okay.

00:42:37.980 Yeah.

00:42:38.420 Okay.

00:42:39.940 To finish the story, the reason that we put her life in that place where we put it

00:42:46.200 is because she is for us the paradigmatic example of what it means to be a Christian.

00:42:50.940 which is not to be a super good person but it's to live a life of repentance and i think that

00:42:56.600 women are just as capable of that as men sorry that was why because i was thinking if like he

00:43:03.160 found a girl like that that had lived a crazy life and she lied about it is that the case for

00:43:08.800 an annulment i don't know oh okay no cut and dry answer i i just don't know okay i am not a canon

00:43:16.540 lawyer i've never had to process an annulment so i couldn't tell you okay um do you i'm just going

00:43:24.620 through the ones i wanted to make sure i asked um do you think the husband gets to pick how many

00:43:31.020 kids that they have as a family oh boy who get who gets to pick how many children you have

00:43:42.460 certainly not me no i'm asking certainly not my wife

00:43:47.560 right but there's family planning you can a lot of people do plan it like i mean a common complaint

00:43:55.200 now is um that men want more kids than women do and so like in that situation do you think the

00:44:03.520 men should get to decide the size of the family i think that marriage one of the purposes of marriage

00:44:10.860 is the raising of sons and daughters for the church.

00:44:15.240 If you're going to have sons and daughters for the church,

00:44:19.500 then you've got to do it in a way that's going to be good

00:44:23.460 for the health of the people involved.

00:44:25.960 Many of the methods of contraception,

00:44:29.260 which are in use in the world today,

00:44:30.900 would be totally contraindicated by the Orthodox faith,

00:44:34.500 especially abortive facents. 0.74

00:44:36.820 You guys aren't against tracking your cycle, right?

00:44:40.020 Or you are.

00:44:40.860 You know, so I've got a lot of Roman Catholic friends, and obviously the Roman Catholics have like a very involved kind of system for this, right?

00:44:49.720 I don't know.

00:44:50.740 Yeah, it's called NFP, Natural Family Planning, and it involves tracking the cycle very closely.

00:44:57.180 And basically, if this is not a good time to conceive a child, practicing abstinence.

00:45:02.120 So whether or not I would be against that would be the case.

00:45:07.260 It would be the question of like, what's good for this family?

00:45:10.560 what's good for the couple well i think the obedience question goes to who gets to decide

00:45:15.140 so who gets to decide that the man or the woman who gets to decide what's good for the family yeah

00:45:23.340 the listen any kind of decision that you're going to make about raising children you've

00:45:29.620 got to make together that's for sure but they disagree so who gets to pick what's the scenario

00:45:37.440 in which he wants three she wants one no no no no but i'm what i'm asking you is like what do you

00:45:42.740 what do you realistically think is going to happen if he if he forces himself on her like

00:45:48.360 is that what you're proposing oh god no okay no but um i am just asking who gets to pick

00:45:57.400 from a what would the orthodox say to that who should pick the number of children in a family

00:46:02.800 if somebody came to me and they said we're having a disagreement about this

00:46:06.160 I would want to ask some questions first to figure out why don't you want children

00:46:11.120 and is it is out of fear is it out of we're afraid that we're not going to be able to

00:46:17.340 support these kids like what's going on why don't you want the children

00:46:19.540 that would be the first question that I would ask and then we would go from there okay last

00:46:26.860 question I'd like for you to describe what a good husband looks like and then what a good wife looks

00:46:32.240 like? This is an easy one. A good husband is someone who models Christ's love and headship

00:46:42.180 and very importantly, self-sacrifice for his family. This means that he provides for his family.

00:46:49.700 This means that he lays his life down. St. John Chrysostom says that the calling of the husband

00:46:56.500 is higher than the calling of the wife and therefore also more difficult because he has

00:47:00.920 to model Christ. So a healthy marriage is one in which I sacrifice myself for my wife in the way

00:47:07.860 that Christ sacrifices himself for me. You mentioned a moment ago, what's in it for you

00:47:14.140 in marriage if another man has authority in your own home? Well, ultimately, the person who has

00:47:18.680 authority in my home is him, right? And this is not a hypothetical Jesus in a book. We're talking

00:47:25.280 about the real living Christ. So the degree to which I'm a good husband is the degree to which

00:47:30.060 I can model his self-sacrifice.

00:47:32.140 And this looks different in different families.

00:47:36.580 This looks different in different contexts.

00:47:40.080 But what it always looks like is love, headship, and self-sacrifice. 1.00

00:47:43.920 What does a good wife look like? 1.00

00:47:45.260 A good wife is somebody who models her. 1.00

00:47:49.020 Somebody who models the mother of God. 0.95

00:47:51.360 And her openness to Christ.

00:47:54.900 Because one of the weird things that seems to kind of come around again and again

00:47:59.900 in the discussion that we've been having about obedience

00:48:02.760 is this idea that

00:48:05.540 well if you don't obey me

00:48:09.300 then I'm going to force something on you

00:48:11.160 that's why I asked that question a moment ago

00:48:13.000 and I'm glad to hear you wouldn't want that to happen

00:48:14.880 but the reason I asked is because

00:48:17.720 God comes, sends the archangel

00:48:21.240 to the Virgin Mary and he says to her 0.68

00:48:23.080 you're going to conceive a child

00:48:26.780 a son

00:48:27.400 now

00:48:29.260 she gets a choice right here right in this moment

00:48:32.220 what's she going to do she's going to say no

00:48:33.660 what happens if she says no 0.55

00:48:35.460 thing doesn't happen

00:48:36.720 right 1.00

00:48:37.940 what does she lose then

00:48:40.780 well what she actually loses is her salvation

00:48:43.580 and the salvation of the human race

00:48:45.480 but what she gives

00:48:48.000 is she gives her yes but the yes that she gives 0.98

00:48:50.040 is free and willing

00:48:52.060 and born out of love

00:48:54.100 and in doing this she gives

00:48:56.260 honor to, remember, so you've got love, you've got honor,

00:49:00.420 you've got headship, you've got embodiment. So she gives honor

00:49:03.920 to Christ. She gives honor to the Heavenly Father. And she

00:49:08.340 says, Behold, the handmaiden of the Lord, be it unto me

00:49:12.160 according to your word. And at that moment,

00:49:16.220 Christ becomes a human being, and he takes on my flesh,

00:49:20.220 he takes on my nature, he takes on everything that means to be a human being.

00:49:23.600 and their whole relationship over the course of their life

00:49:27.900 is like that

00:49:29.480 and in a healthy marriage 1.00

00:49:33.020 a woman will embody her purity 0.96

00:49:36.920 she will embody her motherhood

00:49:38.940 and she will embody her love

00:49:42.100 and her

00:49:43.680 she will be the person

00:49:48.220 who makes the place

00:49:51.420 where God can be known 1.00

00:49:53.200 so think about she's doing that there

00:49:57.620 she's doing it there, she's opening up a space

00:50:00.800 in which Christ is going to do his first miracle, reveal himself to the world

00:50:04.720 and begin his earthly ministry, ultimately culminating in his passion

00:50:08.840 and resurrection, right, but she's also there at the foot of the cross

00:50:11.980 she's there, our tradition tells us, she waits outside the tomb

00:50:16.520 for three days and three nights, you know, for the three days

00:50:19.580 as Christ is lying in the tomb

00:50:22.240 she's the first one to receive the good news of the

00:50:24.240 resurrection, St. Gregor Palamas says

00:50:26.040 this is a teaching hidden in the Gospels

00:50:27.660 and then she's there also

00:50:30.260 at the

00:50:31.460 ascension, when Christ ascends into

00:50:34.240 heaven, she's the one that's there and if you look

00:50:36.280 at other, this is an icon of

00:50:38.180 ascension but it's actually connected to that

00:50:40.160 large icon of her

00:50:41.120 above the altar in the apse

00:50:44.240 because what we're showing is she's the one

00:50:46.180 who's sort of making space for the church to be what it is

00:50:48.340 so this is what womanhood

00:50:50.480 and here's the thing, we didn't have to say

00:50:52.780 husbands and wives, we can say men and women

00:50:54.520 a woman who is experiencing

00:50:56.980 salvation and who is becoming

00:50:58.660 holy, who is becoming a saint, this is

00:51:00.800 what she does, she makes a place in which

00:51:02.760 God can be known

00:51:03.500 which means that

00:51:05.920 there's actually a higher path, so remember what I said about

00:51:08.800 Plato brain a moment ago, this idea that

00:51:10.660 there are things that are higher

00:51:12.880 and just because they're higher

00:51:14.900 doesn't actually mean that they're

00:51:16.580 better. Well, something that's higher than marriage is monasticism. All the church fathers

00:51:22.120 are very clear about this. Even Christ says this, and then his disciples say, this is a hard

00:51:27.320 teaching. I'm not sure who can accept this. And even St. Paul says, you know, who was himself,

00:51:34.120 you know, lived a celibate life, he says, I wish everybody could be like I am, right? So

00:51:38.580 for people who are not experiencing the things I'm talking about in marriage, they still have

00:51:42.980 the opportunity. So we're very close to a wonderful community of nuns here outside the Dallas Fort Worth

00:51:47.880 Metroplex. These are wonderful women with deep hearts and deep love for God, and they embody

00:51:53.080 exactly what it means to make this space, to open up the space in which God can be known.

00:51:59.840 Similarly, monastics, including, you know, my own spiritual father, our bishop. Monastics,

00:52:08.180 male monks, also have the ability to live the blessed life,

00:52:14.640 live the life of Christ, live the life of John the Baptist, 0.85

00:52:17.660 live the white life of St. Paul in a way that's more attenuated, right?

00:52:21.560 And so it actually helps me, and it's good for my soul and my healing,

00:52:25.560 for them and their example to be a part of me and my family.

00:52:30.180 So we're saved in families.

00:52:33.440 Salvation and healing, that's what we're doing here.

00:52:36.140 and really as an Orthodox Christian,

00:52:39.960 certainly as a member of the clergy,

00:52:41.520 those are the things that I'm most interested in.

00:52:44.300 Great.

00:52:45.300 Well, thank you so much for doing this.

00:52:47.040 Thank you.

00:52:47.740 Thank you.

Pearl - June 08, 2026

Orthodox Deacon Seraphim (Richard) Rohlin, PART TWO ｜ THE SITDOWN

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript