Pearl - The Broken Legal System EXPOSED! ｜ Pearl Daily @TheBrancaShow

00:00:00.000 what up guys welcome to another episode of pearl daily welcome to the show today i have a special

00:00:13.200 guest on the show our first ever in studio guest welcome to the show andrew brinka thank you very

00:00:19.440 much it's a pleasure to be here he is the world's leader the country's leading expert in self-defense

00:00:25.120 law with over 25 years of experience and you have the youtube channel law of self-defense

00:00:30.080 i do more than 30 years of experience i keep getting older every year and you are the author

00:00:36.480 of our best-selling book the law of self-defense principles which by the way

00:00:40.320 we give away for free at law of self-defense.com free book and so you teach men and women how to

00:00:50.560 legally shoot somebody. That's one way of putting it. I prefer to say that I teach people where the

00:00:57.520 legal boundaries are for the use of force. So they do have to defend themselves. They're not

00:01:02.420 only well positioned to win the physical fight, which is the most important thing, but they're

00:01:05.580 also well positioned to win the legal fight that happens. You don't want to survive the physical

00:01:09.340 fight only to spend the rest of your life in a cage someplace. You want to be free to live your

00:01:13.360 life with your family and all the things that make life worth living. And so what's interesting,

00:01:17.860 um because guys we went shooting today so we went shooting and i've spent kind of the day

00:01:23.060 hanging out with andrew and um you said something earlier about many people get convicted even

00:01:31.680 though they're innocent or they didn't do anything on the books wrong why is that well part of it is

00:01:38.540 just noise in the system uh so specifically in this context we're talking about good guy cases

00:01:42.880 of self-defense right not criminals just making up self-defense but someone's had to defend them

00:01:47.840 themselves against some kind of attack, they don't really know where the legal

00:01:51.200 boundaries are. They may think they know, but in fact they generally don't know

00:01:54.500 what they're allowed and not allowed to do. And the system itself is not well

00:01:59.600 suited to deal with good guy cases of self-defense. By the system I mean the

00:02:03.800 criminal justice system. When you think of that phrase, criminal justice system,

00:02:07.760 the most controlling word in that three-word phrase is system. It is a

00:02:13.760 system. It's a machine, like a steampunk-era machine with giant wheels and gears. It doesn't

00:02:19.380 care about you personally. It doesn't care about fairness. It's just a bureaucratic machine for

00:02:24.500 administering what we call justice, the rules of law to different people. And the second most

00:02:29.900 operative term in that phrase, criminal justice system, is criminal. It's a system that's optimized

00:02:35.360 to deal with criminals. For them, it does a pretty good job. But when you feed a normal law-abiding

00:02:40.820 person into that system, it generally doesn't go very well. And because the system's optimized

00:02:45.400 for dealing with criminals, there's at least always a 10% chance that you'll get convicted

00:02:50.140 if I have to put you in front of a jury. That's what we call the justice part of the criminal

00:02:54.860 justice system. 10%? That seems so high. It's low. Many criminal defense attorneys will tell

00:03:00.060 you it's higher because most criminal defense attorneys or clients are actually criminals.

00:03:04.520 That's the nature of the business. For someone who has a criminal history who's put in front

00:03:09.520 of a jury they could be completely innocent of this particular charge they're looking at more

00:03:13.500 like a 50 percent chance of conviction wait say that one more time so they're the normal person

00:03:19.860 who's fed into the criminal justice system is a criminal they have a criminal background they've

00:03:23.380 done criminal stuff before okay they're just back for another ride on the carousel of the criminal

00:03:28.000 justice system if that person goes in front of a jury it's more like a 50 chance of getting

00:03:32.280 convicted even if they're technically innocent of the particular charge this time okay so who are

00:03:37.340 your typical clients when you defend somebody in a self-defense case? So most of the cases I work

00:03:44.200 on, the clients tend to be normal law-abiding people, never been in trouble with the law a day

00:03:49.280 in their life. Some of them have never had a speeding ticket in their entire lives, typically

00:03:52.960 between the ages of 35 and 50. Now, I should be clear, I have a consulting practice, so I don't

00:04:00.420 take clients directly. All the cases I work on, somebody used for somewhere in the country,

00:04:05.520 They ended up with a criminal charge.

00:04:07.440 They hire a local attorney to be their lead counsel on their case.

00:04:10.940 My client is their attorney, so I'm consulting to their attorney.

00:04:14.180 Oh, okay.

00:04:15.620 And what are typical cases that somebody gets into that, like, winds, like, is it a bar fight?

00:04:23.620 Is it a home invasion?

00:04:27.320 Like, what is the typical self-defense case?

00:04:29.660 So the most common criminal charge we're defending against is aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

00:04:35.520 we do murder cases we do all level of cases but the most common is aggravated

00:04:39.920 assault with a deadly weapon because what happens is the client was facing

00:04:44.240 something scary frightening them and they're carrying a gun legally carrying

00:04:49.160 a gun and they pulled the gun out and they pointed it at that person and they

00:04:52.400 said stay back I'm prepared to defend myself which sounds like perfect self

00:04:56.700 defense right that same conduct checks all the boxes for a criminal charge of

00:05:01.720 aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. What is assault? It's putting someone else in fear of

00:05:06.660 harm. But what are you doing when you're pointing a gun at someone? You're putting them in fear of

00:05:10.840 harm. You're telling them, I will hurt you if you don't stop doing what's scaring me. It's aggravated

00:05:16.060 because you're threatening them with deadly force harm, and it's with a deadly weapon because you're

00:05:20.300 doing it with a gun. Collectively, in most states, that's good. That's a felony good for 10 to 20

00:05:25.320 years in prison. Keep in mind, I'm talking about mothers, fathers, people who've never been in

00:05:30.080 trouble with the law a day in their lives are now looking at a 20-year felony sentence.

00:05:35.020 Right. And so have you had any cases where, maybe not you, or like what are examples of cases that

00:05:43.400 commonly innocent people end up going to prison? Like what's like a common case that that might

00:05:49.800 happen? Well, it can happen in any case. Like I said, there's at least a 10% chance, no matter

00:05:53.740 how innocent you are, that you'd get convicted. We have a very, very high success rate at law

00:05:58.900 self-defense. We have almost 100% success in getting charges dismissed or people put into

00:06:03.240 a diversion program. So if they keep their nose clean for a certain period of time, the charges

00:06:07.120 go away. Or if we go to trial, we have a very high rate of acquittals. So we're pretty good at what

00:06:12.580 we do. The cases that really trouble me is the ones where I actually see innocent people being

00:06:17.860 convicted and going to prison. And they tend to be many of the high profile, politically energized

00:06:22.700 cases out there. The George Zimmerman case, the Kyle Rittenhouse case. Now, those two guys happen

00:06:27.920 to get acquitted, but they were at risk of conviction. They would have spent the rest of

00:06:31.320 their lives in jail. Derek Chauvin is another case. There was reasonable doubt in that case,

00:06:37.520 but he got convicted anyway, and he'll die in prison. George Zimmerman, can you tell me what

00:06:44.560 the media said about it and what actually happened? Sure. So the way it was portrayed in the media was

00:06:49.540 that George Zimmerman was a white Latino, a phrase invented for his trial. A white Latino.

00:06:56.140 White Latino. He was some kind of pseudo-white supremacist who saw a 13-year-old black boy 0.98

00:07:03.460 walking through his community and decided to kill him and shot him dead for the crime of that boy 0.99

00:07:10.160 walking around minding his own business with iced tea and candy. What actually happened was George 0.96

00:07:17.220 Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch volunteer for his community that was beset by a tidal wave of

00:07:22.720 home invasions and burglaries and thefts. He saw Trayvon Martin, who was not 13 years old,

00:07:27.780 but it was a 17-year-old, well-muscled high school football player. Wait, he was 17? 17.

00:07:34.660 Wow. Okay, keep going. Trayvon Martin was a street fighter. In other words, he engaged in

00:07:40.920 fights in the street as entertainment. We know this because we have video of him fighting on

00:07:45.220 his own cell phone. His chosen technique was to punch people in the face, knock them down,

00:07:49.420 and then mount them and beat them into the ground. 0.96

00:07:52.540 Well, Trayvon Martin saw that George Zimmerman

00:07:54.900 was on the phone with police

00:07:56.280 reporting a suspicious character, Trayvon Martin.

00:07:59.240 So he ambushed George Zimmerman,

00:08:01.280 punched him in the face, 0.96

00:08:02.300 knocked him down, mounted him, 0.96

00:08:03.940 was beating him into the ground, 0.96

00:08:05.980 smashing his head into a sidewalk.

00:08:07.540 There's eyewitness testimony for all of this.

00:08:09.940 And in the last desperate moment to save his life,

00:08:11.960 George Zimmerman drew his legally carried pistol,

00:08:14.600 fired a single round that killed Trayvon Martin

00:08:17.120 in lawful self-defense.

00:08:19.420 and then there was all these riots, and they made it politically motivated.

00:08:25.040 But somehow Zimmerman still got acquitted, right?

00:08:29.360 Yeah, when I first looked at the case, I thought,

00:08:31.040 well, surely there must be something from the prosecution here that would suggest guilt,

00:08:34.240 because everything I'm seeing is totally consistent with lawful self-defense.

00:08:37.820 And there simply wasn't anything.

00:08:41.080 But what was happening was it became an opportunity for a local prosecutor

00:08:45.340 who was having difficulty getting reelected in her black community,

00:08:49.720 She had prosecuted a couple of cases involving black people that were very unpopular in the

00:08:54.220 community.

00:08:54.820 She was going to lose her re-election.

00:08:57.220 And then she saw the opportunity with George Zimmerman and said, you know what?

00:09:00.240 If I prosecute this guy for shooting that black high school student, I'll be in favor 1.00

00:09:05.000 with the black community again. 0.68

00:09:06.920 Now, George Zimmerman was acquitted.

00:09:08.540 So that prosecutor lost that trial.

00:09:11.340 If you define winning as getting a conviction, she didn't get a conviction.

00:09:15.360 But if you properly understand what motivated her, it was not to get a conviction.

00:09:18.840 it was to get re-elected. And that worked. When she was going to lose re-election,

00:09:23.520 she prosecuted Zimmerman, and she got re-elected instead of losing.

00:09:28.080 So that's how politics get involved in the law, because the prosecutors are elected.

00:09:35.720 Right.

00:09:36.300 And so then they have to be political.

00:09:38.760 That's correct.

00:09:40.220 So it's got to be heavily dependent on the prosecutor in your area, too.

00:09:44.640 right so in fact the prosecutor in george zimmerman's area he was pressured to bring

00:09:50.560 charges against george zimmerman and he quit he resigned his job rather than prosecute george

00:09:55.200 zimmerman so the prosecutor who ended up taking the case was from a completely different part of

00:09:59.680 florida who flew in to take over that case for political advantage how can they do that because 0.99

00:10:05.600 isn't it based on where you are yeah but once the original prosecutor quit it left the vacuum

00:10:10.640 It needed to be replaced by somebody, and she raised her hand.

00:10:14.320 It got picked by the governor.

00:10:15.820 Oh, so the governor appointed her to go do it?

00:10:18.920 Essentially assigned her to go into that empty district and take over the prosecutor's role. 1.00

00:10:23.760 And because they made it like a race issue, then the facts didn't even matter.

00:10:29.760 Right.

00:10:30.240 So there's a cliche in the law, and it says, if you're a lawyer and the law is on your

00:10:34.640 side, you argue the law to the jury.

00:10:36.980 And if the facts are on your side, you argue the facts to the jury.

00:10:39.860 And if neither the law nor the facts are on your side, you pound the table.

00:10:44.660 And so that whole prosecution was table pounding.

00:10:47.000 The facts were not on their side.

00:10:48.560 The law was not on their side.

00:10:50.020 It was the cleanest case of self-defense I've ever seen brought to trial.

00:10:53.840 Their prospects of actually getting a conviction was shockingly low, probably just that 10%

00:10:58.640 that's noise in the system.

00:11:00.700 So I don't think they really had an expectation of getting a conviction, although it could,

00:11:04.040 of course, happen.

00:11:05.020 The whole point was for her to win re-election. 0.58

00:11:07.380 And in that respect, she won.

00:11:09.860 Right. And so it's almost like innocent people get like, they're like innocent bystanders in

00:11:16.880 the process where innocent people get thrown in jail because politicians are trying to get

00:11:23.160 reelected. That's exactly right. And they're just, they're just like a twig floating along 0.99

00:11:27.500 the river. They're completely helpless. Oh, and that's why they, oh, okay. You just

00:11:32.820 made something make sense. That's why they hated Kamala, right? Because I guess she was known for 1.00

00:11:41.980 having some unfair prosecutions. She was really contemptible. First of all, she put a lot of 0.99

00:11:47.840 young black men in jail for marijuana crimes at a time when it was becoming clear the social

00:11:52.340 sentiment towards marijuana was becoming more favorable. You didn't need to give these people

00:11:56.140 long sentences. Then she kept them in prison longer than California law required. She could 0.97

00:12:01.060 have allowed them to be released earlier and she wouldn't. Then there were many cases in which

00:12:05.080 they had hidden exculpatory evidence, evidence consistent with innocence on these guys. So they

00:12:10.680 were appealing their cases because the courts had hid that evidence favorable to them. And she

00:12:15.760 argued against getting them released. So she was holding people in prison she knew did not belong

00:12:21.080 in prison. Well, what would be her motive for doing that? She thought there was political

00:12:25.760 advantage in it. She wanted to be able to run eventually as someone who was tough on crime. 0.98

00:12:29.260 oh so and did you look at any of those cases super in depth i'm just curious if you think that

00:12:38.460 the cases they bring up were fair or no so the the ultimate merits of the case are hard to know

00:12:45.020 right whenever this guy did what he was charged with i wasn't in the room so i don't really know

00:12:49.120 in any absolute sense what happened but i do know that when the defense is saying hey we have

00:12:54.000 exculpatory evidence that's favorable to our client and the state is arguing for that not to

00:12:58.680 be admitted, that's a problem. Yeah, because you would think that would be illegal for them not

00:13:04.860 to bring up evidence, right? At a trial, it would be. It gets a little squishier when we're talking

00:13:10.620 about the appeals process. But if you're a prosecutor and you're genuinely interested

00:13:14.340 in justice and not just a score, you seek justice by allowing the evidence in. Right.

00:13:19.160 interesting how do you think so what what do you think about like false accusations and how can i

00:13:29.340 don't know i know it's a little bit off of self-defense but no it's fine how can men protect

00:13:35.020 themselves from false accusations well you really you really can't except to not associate with

00:13:40.980 people who might bring false accusations there's crazy people out there don't be in their company

00:13:45.700 Don't date them. Don't marry them. In terms of what I think should happen to people who make

00:13:51.540 false accusations, and we need to be careful because sometimes someone may make a claim

00:13:56.880 that they believe is true, but they just have the wrong person, right? It looks like the person who

00:14:01.740 attacked them, for example. That's obviously not the case if we're talking about people in a

00:14:05.900 relationship who know each other well. But I think that if anybody makes a false accusation about

00:14:10.920 anything let's use a woman making a false she knows it's a false accusation of rape against a 1.00

00:14:16.280 man and she's caught and it's proven she did that beyond a reasonable doubt she should serve whatever

00:14:21.360 prison sentence that man would have served if her accusation had been believed and why is it so hard

00:14:27.500 for things like that to get passed like why won't shouldn't that be cut and dry well because most of

00:14:33.180 the people making the false accusations tend to be women making those kinds of false accusations 1.00

00:14:37.180 And women are treated, as in life generally, with softer gloves than men are treated.

00:14:43.020 They get shorter prison sentences.

00:14:44.880 They get more favorable treatment in court.

00:14:46.840 They're less likely to get convicted in the first place on essentially identical facts.

00:14:52.200 Society just treats women differently than men, especially when they're going to be put to some kind of duress.

00:14:57.680 Yeah.

00:14:58.840 What about Kyle Rittenhouse?

00:15:01.720 Another case that was – there was literally zero evidence inconsistent with self-defense.

00:15:06.620 And that's important to keep in mind because you don't have to prove you acted in self-defense.

00:15:10.740 The state has to prove you did not act in self-defense.

00:15:13.200 And they have to prove that beyond any reasonable doubt.

00:15:16.460 So by like 90% of the evidence, they have to disprove your claim of self-defense.

00:15:21.620 Well, if 100% of the evidence is favorable to self-defense, there's no way they can get a conviction on the legal merits there.

00:15:28.220 Kyle Rittenhouse didn't shoot anybody who was not actively trying to kill him in the moment he shot that person.

00:15:33.520 Every single one of those uses of force was completely lawful.

00:15:36.620 The prosecution had nothing to go on on the law and on the facts.

00:15:40.720 So what did they do?

00:15:41.700 They pounded the table.

00:15:43.140 They made a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

00:15:44.720 They complained about him carrying a rifle in the first place.

00:15:47.600 Sorry, that was completely lawful under the circumstances.

00:15:51.820 They just shout about a lot of things.

00:15:54.640 But there was nothing there in the merits.

00:15:56.300 Kyle Rittenhouse got lucky.

00:15:57.360 He could have been convicted too.

00:15:58.460 It would have been a wrongful conviction.

00:15:59.780 But it could have happened.

00:16:01.020 Thankfully, the jury came back with the right verdict.

00:16:02.760 so do you think all of these cases are disincentivizing men from stepping up in

00:16:09.600 situations where they hypothetically could so you know Kyle Rittenhouse I'm

00:16:14.280 fairly certain he actually went there to help yeah so he went there medical

00:16:19.640 training he brought his first aid kit yeah he was treating people's cuts and

00:16:23.340 abrasions and things like that and you know for I don't know how long the trial

00:16:26.640 was but he probably had to put his life on hold he probably had death threats

00:16:30.000 That's, you know.

00:16:31.020 Right, so even when these people are acquitted,

00:16:32.700 like George Zimmerman or Kyle Rittenhouse.

00:16:34.420 So they won, right?

00:16:35.580 They're acquitted.

00:16:36.180 They walk out of the courtroom a free man.

00:16:39.120 They were at risk of conviction.

00:16:41.560 The trials go on for weeks.

00:16:43.600 And in the case of Zimmerman,

00:16:45.020 it was like a year between the event and the trial.

00:16:47.360 So think about it.

00:16:48.140 If you're like a 25-year-old guy, you're married,

00:16:50.720 you're going to school, you're working a job,

00:16:53.240 and this happens.

00:16:55.020 And now your lawyer tells you,

00:16:56.320 listen, in a year from now, we're going to go to trial,

00:16:58.220 and they're going to decide

00:16:58.860 whether you spend the rest of your life in a cage.

00:17:00.880 What do you do during that year?

00:17:02.580 You still go get your 10 credits that year

00:17:04.440 at the community college?

00:17:06.240 Do you start a family?

00:17:07.460 Do you have a child?

00:17:08.240 Do you do anything substantive?

00:17:10.040 Your life is frozen for that year

00:17:11.700 and you never get that year back.

00:17:13.740 So even if you have the best possible outcome

00:17:15.400 and you get acquitted,

00:17:16.180 you lost that year of your life forever.

00:17:18.820 In the case of George Zimmerman,

00:17:20.000 he lost everything.

00:17:21.280 He lost his job.

00:17:22.420 He lost his wife.

00:17:23.900 He lost, in a sense-

00:17:25.460 His wife left him?

00:17:26.300 His wife divorced him.

00:17:27.880 No way.

00:17:28.720 And I didn't know George at the time of the trial,

00:17:30.960 but I've come to know George since then.

00:17:32.780 He's just a genuinely nice guy, but he was traumatized.

00:17:36.360 Wait, you met him?

00:17:37.340 Yeah.

00:17:37.720 No way.

00:17:38.300 Yep.

00:17:39.000 Really?

00:17:40.040 Have you had an interview with him?

00:17:42.400 Not online, but I've talked with him about the case.

00:17:44.960 I know the lawyers on his side from the case very, very well.

00:17:47.560 Wow.

00:17:48.140 Now they're good friends of mine.

00:17:50.360 But George was, so you hear about George after the trial,

00:17:53.040 after the acquittal.

00:17:53.940 Sometimes you'd see him in the news.

00:17:55.180 He did something crazy.

00:17:56.500 Well, he was a broken man.

00:17:58.340 He had PTSD from that experience.

00:18:00.080 You know, he wanted to be a prosecutor himself.

00:18:02.020 That's what he was going to school for.

00:18:03.780 And so in his own mind, he's the good guy, right?

00:18:06.560 He wants to be a good guy in society, keep society safe from evil predators.

00:18:10.120 And the system tried to put him in a cage for the rest of his life for doing nothing wrong.

00:18:15.640 And how long do you think George Zimmerman would have survived in general population in a Florida prison?

00:18:20.520 Had he been convicted of being a racist murderer of a 13-year-old black boy for having iced tea and candy?

00:18:27.060 Weeks? Maybe? 0.72

00:18:28.340 How does that happen where these guys get, like, don't they have guards and stuff?

00:18:33.020 How do they get stabbed in prison?

00:18:35.540 It's just like a dorm.

00:18:37.300 Everyone's mixed in.

00:18:39.160 You're in your cells at night, and then in the morning the cells open up,

00:18:42.020 and everyone just mingles in a central area.

00:18:44.580 Yeah, you would just think that they would be, the prison would be responsible.

00:18:49.120 Like, how are they getting the weapons?

00:18:51.440 They shouldn't, like, how are they getting them?

00:18:53.080 Okay, so, yeah, we like to think of prisons as being these secure facilities

00:18:57.020 where you can't get stuff in.

00:18:58.340 Every drug you can buy in the street, you can get in prison.

00:19:01.120 They take guns off of prisoners in prisons.

00:19:06.800 So how do they get into the, and that's not even counting the weapons that they can just

00:19:10.760 fabricate by materials they secure in the prison.

00:19:13.960 You know, prisons are made out of cinder blocks.

00:19:15.620 You take a piece of steel, a piece of spring, anything, and you grind it.

00:19:19.540 You got plenty of free time in prison.

00:19:21.000 You grind it on a cinder block, you have a knife. 0.97

00:19:23.780 Wow.

00:19:24.520 And who brings that stuff into the prisons?

00:19:26.080 It's mostly the guards.

00:19:26.920 so he would just be because that's what happened to um chauvinah right he just got stabbed like 20

00:19:34.640 times in prison or i think it was maybe two or three years ago with shanks just pieces of metal

00:19:39.880 they sharpened up on on cinder block and what do they do they just throw them back in yeah wow so

00:19:46.180 it's like he gets stabbed and then he just has to fend for himself imagine wow i mean many of us

00:19:52.440 when we were kids were bullied in school right that was a miserable experience chauvin's facing

00:19:56.380 the death bully experience wow so but the world doesn't care because the world's been brainwashed

00:20:04.540 into thinking that he's the the horrible racist murderer of saint george floyd i think there's a

00:20:10.700 he has a good amount of support though i do think um sorry not simmerman but um chauvin i think um

00:20:17.900 because i spoke to his lawyer um i was trying to get an interview with him potentially and um

00:20:24.140 um he his lawyer said that they get a call like every week from people that are just still upset

00:20:31.400 about it and it's been like eight years or seven however long right but those people don't have the

00:20:36.500 power or authority to change anything yeah so so but Zimmerman um so you know him personally and

00:20:45.760 he's in the news now not anymore so that this all happened 12 years ago now so I would say for five

00:20:53.020 or six years after the trial he was he was messed up uh but since then he's gotten his life together

00:20:58.800 he's moved on to other things and he seems to be doing pretty well now did he like change his name

00:21:03.540 like he did yeah he and what is he is he in like a normal job now or how is how did i don't really

00:21:09.800 want to give too many details because he's obviously changed his name so people wouldn't

00:21:13.180 find him yeah that's fine but wow because i just can't i don't even know how you would move on from

00:21:18.680 that like i don't know what you would do next um oh yeah and brianna taylor is another one i have

00:21:30.760 listed yeah so that kind of falls into the category of um i have the cough you're okay you're okay

00:21:37.060 brianna taylor kind of falls into the category of what i call bad outcome cases meaning

00:21:44.480 you can imagine a shooting that might occur where the person who was killed really deserved it

00:21:49.240 really had it coming they were firing bullets at the police and the police were shooting back and

00:21:53.100 they just got killed in a gunfight that's not really what happened with Breonna Taylor she

00:21:56.880 was in an apartment with her boyfriend the apartment was served with a search warrant

00:22:01.960 by the police they were doing a drug raid essentially the police kicked in the door

00:22:08.380 as the search warrant allowed them to do and when they came in Breonna's boyfriend started

00:22:13.360 shooting at the police. He would later say that he thought he was being the victim of a home

00:22:17.200 invasion, which could be true. Maybe he did believe that. In which case, it can

00:22:21.420 be lawful to shoot at the police. If you don't know they're police, if you think they're home invaders, you're just defending your

00:22:25.300 home. But of course, when you shoot at the police, they tend to shoot back. And the

00:22:29.340 police did shoot back, and one of those rounds struck and killed Breonna Taylor.

00:22:33.300 Was she trying to harm the police? No. Did the police have a reasonable expectation that the

00:22:37.360 person they were serving the warrant on was trying to kill them? Yes.

00:22:40.380 so their shots fired in her direction at the source of the gun shooting at them

00:22:46.740 was a lawful use of force she just got caught in the crossfire so it's not a good death i mean

00:22:52.460 nobody wanted her to die but a lot of times you have these cases where it's technically a legal

00:22:58.800 killing under the law even though everybody involved wished it had never happened

00:23:02.700 so what are the best ways for people to protect themselves in those situations

00:23:10.340 okay my nose started running and also guys if you have any questions for him you have to go

00:23:20.640 to the audacitynetwork.com and you sign up for our monthly memberships there's a live chat and

00:23:27.040 Every now and then I'm going to check it to see if you guys have any comments or questions.

00:23:33.800 You don't have to super chat.

00:23:34.880 You just put it in the chat.

00:23:36.640 Like Bob says, I've worked in corrections for over 30 years and the percentage of the population is not guilty.

00:23:44.660 What percentage, Bob?

00:23:46.080 I don't understand fully.

00:23:47.940 And then also, guys, we do have a sponsor for this episode.

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00:25:51.200 okay so you were saying brianna taylor was awful there said in the chat it's awful but lawful yep

00:25:57.200 that's the that's the phrase we use so it's it's not good but it happens all the time because um

00:26:03.840 two people could be involved in a fight and they both legitimately think they're acting in self

00:26:07.440 defense this happens a lot with police on police shootings uh where they each mistake the other

00:26:12.160 especially if they're in plain clothes. They're both in plain clothes. They're being told,

00:26:17.100 hey, go find a guy who's walking around with a gun. And they turn a corner and there's a guy

00:26:20.140 with a gun. It's another cop. And they shoot at each other. One of them kills the other.

00:26:25.300 Under the law, it doesn't, the law of self-defense doesn't really care about what was actually

00:26:29.300 happening. It's all about what was your reasonable perception when you fired that shot.

00:26:33.760 And if you had a reasonable perception that you were facing an imminent deadly force threat,

00:26:37.240 you can use deadly force in self-defense. You're not required to be correct in that assessment.

00:26:42.620 We're not required to make perfect decisions in self-defense.

00:26:45.140 We're only required to make reasonable decisions in self-defense.

00:26:48.580 Mistakes are allowed, as long as the mistakes are reasonable mistakes.

00:26:52.460 So how can you protect yourself when you're in an altercation?

00:26:56.120 Like, what are the best ways to, when you're in a situation where you have to use self-defense,

00:27:02.180 like Zimmerman or any of these, you know, the guy on the subway, Daniel Penny?

00:27:09.080 Penny.

00:27:09.540 Penny, yeah.

00:27:10.080 When they're in those situations, what is the best way to protect themselves?

00:27:14.860 Well, of course, there's two fights we're talking about, right?

00:27:16.760 There's the physical fight.

00:27:17.860 You have to win the physical fight or nothing else really matters, right?

00:27:20.240 You lose the physical fight.

00:27:21.220 Who cares about the legal stuff?

00:27:22.620 Right.

00:27:23.200 And that really involves what I would call tactical decisions.

00:27:26.220 Like, do you have a gun?

00:27:27.280 Do you have a knife?

00:27:27.940 Do you know how to use them?

00:27:28.940 Do you do some martial art like Brazilian jiu-jitsu?

00:27:32.000 If you don't train for the physical fight, you're going to lose the physical fight.

00:27:35.160 People don't win because they're going to go, I don't know, crazy mode or something.

00:27:40.180 That's not reality.

00:27:41.520 You don't rise to your aspirations or your imaginary capabilities.

00:27:45.700 Your performance is going to be what you can demonstrate cold on any given day at a range or in a dojo or wherever you prepare for the physical fight.

00:27:53.120 So I would encourage people to do that, prepare for the physical fight.

00:27:56.500 I know personally I carry a gun every day of my adult life for personal protection.

00:28:00.360 I do BJJ several times a week so I can have a non-gun answer to problems, a barehanded answer, to maintain that proficiency myself.

00:28:10.640 So first, you've got to do what needs to be done to win the physical fight.

00:28:13.900 The next question is, what can you do to win the legal fight?

00:28:17.280 You want great legal counsel, for sure.

00:28:20.140 And most lawyers are not particularly good.

00:28:22.320 Like any profession, lawyers aren't a bell curve.

00:28:24.760 80% of them are in the middle.

00:28:26.300 They're okay. 1.00

00:28:27.440 10% of them suck. 1.00

00:28:28.940 10% of them are really good. 1.00

00:28:30.740 You want one of the 10% that's really good.

00:28:33.500 But even having done that, it's important to keep in mind that your lawyer is not a magician.

00:28:38.900 He can't turn a bad shoot into a good shoot.

00:28:42.180 Your lawyer is stuck with the facts you give him.

00:28:45.080 If you give him good facts, you'll have a great defense.

00:28:48.300 In fact, you can make yourself super hard to convict.

00:28:50.140 That's what we teach at Law of Self-Defense is how to be hard to convict.

00:28:53.460 But if you give your lawyer bad facts, that's going to be a really, really difficult case to have a good outcome in.

00:28:59.360 Bad facts.

00:29:00.320 Bad facts.

00:29:01.080 So what did you do?

00:29:02.880 Was your conduct actually within the legal boundaries of self-defense?

00:29:06.800 If it was, you're hard to convict.

00:29:09.100 But your lawyer can't change that retroactively.

00:29:11.280 You have to have made the right decisions in the moment when you were defending yourself.

00:29:15.540 How do you know what those right decisions are?

00:29:17.160 Well, stuff like this.

00:29:18.620 Learn the actual law of self-defense.

00:29:20.520 If you do that and you stay well within the legal boundaries, you're really difficult to convict, and you're unlikely, because you're hard to convict, to be charged in the first place.

00:29:28.780 If it's a political ploy, does it matter?

00:29:32.480 Yes and no.

00:29:33.760 So having made the right decisions will not keep you from going to trial if it's a politically energized case.

00:29:39.200 You're going to go.

00:29:40.680 But George Zimmerman went to trial, and Kyle Rittenhouse went to trial, and they got acquitted.

00:29:45.120 They got acquitted because their use of force was inside the legal boundaries.

00:29:48.920 So is it still important to know the legal boundaries

00:29:51.420 and stay within them in a politically charged case?

00:29:53.680 Yeah, because if you don't do that,

00:29:55.440 your conviction's easy.

00:29:56.780 You're done.

00:29:57.520 Well, what was the difference between them

00:29:59.220 and like Derek Chauvin?

00:30:00.660 Like why did Derek go to prison and they didn't?

00:30:04.720 One of the reasons was the case just came later.

00:30:07.720 Every time these politically energized cases come up,

00:30:10.700 the people who want to drive,

00:30:12.540 say the racism angle in the case,

00:30:14.220 they get more sophisticated.

00:30:15.320 They get better at what they're doing.

00:30:17.000 There were some of the facts in the Chauvin case were particularly subject to manipulation.

00:30:22.900 So, for example, while Chauvin is kneeling on George Floyd, a technique that was trained in the police academy for him to use just didn't come out of the blue.

00:30:32.640 He was a 20-year officer.

00:30:33.900 I bet he'd done that 10,000 times before.

00:30:36.240 No suspect had ever died.

00:30:37.420 But while he's kneeling on George Floyd, and George Floyd is saying, I can't breathe, because he just took a mouthful of drugs and had coronary artery disease and had fought four police officers for 10 minutes.

00:30:48.240 But he's saying, I can't breathe.

00:30:49.620 There's 15, 20 people standing on the curb watching this.

00:30:52.960 They're all outraged.

00:30:54.260 They believe they see a man being murdered.

00:30:56.540 Every single one of those persons testified in court.

00:31:00.520 One after another, after another, after another.

00:31:03.720 in a proper criminal prosecution,

00:31:06.500 that would never have been allowed to happen

00:31:07.960 because they all basically saw the same thing.

00:31:10.260 It would have been called cumulative evidence,

00:31:12.780 which normally is not allowed.

00:31:14.740 One or two of them could have said, I saw this.

00:31:16.820 We know the other people all saw the same thing.

00:31:18.800 But when you allow 20 people to tell the same story,

00:31:21.960 it makes it sound as if their evidence

00:31:23.840 is 20 times as strong as it actually is.

00:31:26.820 Another factor was Derek Chauvin had one defense lawyer.

00:31:31.480 The prosecution team had 10 or 15 lawyers

00:31:33.600 working for it. So they would argue all day in court, and then the prosecution team would file

00:31:38.520 a whole bunch of motions that had to be reviewed overnight by the defense team, the one lawyer,

00:31:43.460 defense lawyer. So not only was that guy working all day, he was basically working all night

00:31:47.820 handling these motions. He could not sleep for the several weeks of the trial.

00:31:52.860 So why was it so one-sided? Is it because he couldn't afford more lawyers, I'm guessing?

00:31:59.540 Well, however much you can afford, the state can always afford more.

00:32:04.320 So the state's resources are effectively infinite, and nobody can match infinite resources.

00:32:09.600 But why didn't that happen with the Zimmerman case?

00:32:13.080 So in Zimmerman, it was one of the first of these politically energized cases, and George Zimmerman set up a GoFundMe type of platform, and he was allowed to collect a lot of money.

00:32:24.680 He collected $1.5 million.

00:32:26.560 Now, his legal defense ended up costing closer to $2 million.

00:32:31.780 But nevertheless, with the $1.6 million he raised, that's a lot of resources for a criminal trial.

00:32:37.340 So they were more in parity with what the prosecution could bring to the table.

00:32:41.680 After that, these GoSemi-type organizations, and I don't want to pick them out.

00:32:45.660 It's just the only one whose name I can remember.

00:32:47.720 But many of them now, if you try to raise money for a legal defense, they'll shut you down.

00:32:51.520 They won't let you raise money.

00:32:52.460 No way.

00:32:52.580 Yep.

00:32:53.000 Because they said, well, you've been credibly accused of criminal activity.

00:32:55.680 we're not going to let you use our platform

00:32:57.740 to raise legal defense funds

00:32:58.960 so a lot of that's off the table now

00:33:01.320 right so Chauvin

00:33:03.600 couldn't even raise the money for his case

00:33:05.960 because none of the platforms would let him

00:33:07.800 I expect none of them would

00:33:09.180 that case

00:33:11.540 I just can't believe

00:33:14.040 the police chief turned

00:33:15.960 on him that was amazing

00:33:17.560 I couldn't

00:33:19.060 I mean I guess I would expect

00:33:22.000 it maybe

00:33:22.660 from like the witnesses and stuff,

00:33:27.780 but you would think there'd be some honor, I guess,

00:33:30.640 with the police chief.

00:33:32.780 Yeah, you have to keep in mind

00:33:33.880 when someone becomes a police chief,

00:33:36.140 when they've hit that top level within the department,

00:33:38.820 they're not a cop anymore.

00:33:40.340 They're a politician now.

00:33:41.480 They get that job because the city council

00:33:43.560 or whoever the governing body is

00:33:45.120 chose them for that position.

00:33:46.980 Those people are elected.

00:33:48.500 Effectively, the police chief is elected by them.

00:33:51.400 And so when he's faced with a Derek Chauvin type of position, he can say, well, this guy

00:33:56.420 is just going to be sacrificed.

00:33:58.240 It's obvious they're going to do everything in their power to sacrifice this guy, regardless

00:34:01.640 of the law or the evidence.

00:34:03.480 I can either join him in going to the guillotine, or I can join the team sacrificing him and

00:34:09.180 keep my career.

00:34:11.040 I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but it's not hard to understand why people

00:34:14.180 would make that decision.

00:34:15.640 So do you think that police officers are going to have a hard time recruiting people?

00:34:20.360 they can't recruit right now most major urban police departments are are hundreds or thousands

00:34:25.620 of people short really in terms of how many police officers they need yeah because why would why would

00:34:30.540 you do it especially if you're seeing them throw you know men doing their jobs under the bus and

00:34:36.880 when they can recruit they're not getting top level people right those top level people can

00:34:41.000 go become computer programmers or sell cars or do something else so what do you think will happen

00:34:47.580 in the future? Well, we're at an interesting inflection point. We have a new president coming

00:34:53.960 in. I think he's going to be looking to, many of these prosecutors got their offices, these

00:35:02.660 politically energized prosecutors who bring these cases, became prosecutors because they were

00:35:08.520 elected to those positions with the financial help of George Soros or one of his foundations.

00:35:14.080 George Soros is a very far-left individual, a billionaire.

00:35:18.340 Most prosecutor races traditionally, if you had two guys running for that prosecutor's office,

00:35:23.240 they might each spend $5,000 or $10,000 for that race.

00:35:27.620 George Soros comes in and drops a quarter of a million dollars behind his candidate.

00:35:32.240 He just bought that seat.

00:35:33.980 They're running TV ads.

00:35:35.300 They're running newspaper ads.

00:35:36.660 The normal prosecutors are not competitive anymore.

00:35:39.620 Once George Soros gets his prosecutor into that office,

00:35:42.180 they're in there specifically for political decision-making.

00:35:46.340 So they do things like say,

00:35:48.400 we will no longer prosecute property crimes.

00:35:50.720 If you go in and you loot your local CVS pharmacy,

00:35:53.520 we're not going to prosecute you.

00:35:54.740 So what happens?

00:35:56.120 All the CVS pharmacies get looted.

00:35:58.480 And then they also say,

00:36:00.220 well, if you're a cop and you shoot somebody, 0.98

00:36:01.660 we're going to go after you hard. 0.99

00:36:04.000 So these become,

00:36:05.320 the entire criminal justice structure

00:36:07.240 in those jurisdictions becomes politically energized george so i always hear about him

00:36:12.360 i want to see what he looks like now his son has taken over the empire his son's name is

00:36:17.240 alex soros how did they get rich can we show him on screen he looks kind of scary

00:36:22.200 i don't you see him yeah yeah well how did he get rich do you know i don't know

00:36:31.900 financed by billionaire so he this is the guy that funds a lot of this stuff right and so

00:36:39.340 basically a prosecutor will run and they can't make it unless they go with his agenda essentially

00:36:45.060 so traditional prosecutors are generally old guys or they could be gals in the legal community

00:36:50.380 they've practiced law there for decades they've been lower level prosecutors for decades and they

00:36:55.120 decide you know what i'd like to throw my hat in for the big seat for the prosecutor's office

00:36:59.180 but they don't have much money they don't have much political expertise and they're just normal

00:37:04.560 run-of-the-mill prosecutors they're well-intentioned civil servants just trying to do a good job for

00:37:08.940 their community George Soros will pick someone who's a firebrand left-wing lawyer and say I want

00:37:16.360 you to be the prosecutor and do left-wing things in that office here's a quarter of a million dollars 0.71

00:37:21.080 and buy him the seat.

00:37:25.260 So it'll be interesting to see what Trump does,

00:37:28.720 if this stuff will still be able to happen,

00:37:31.100 or what do you think?

00:37:33.820 Because that's so much money.

00:37:35.080 How do you go up against that?

00:37:37.060 Yeah, unless you can match the money,

00:37:38.380 how would you go up against it?

00:37:39.420 I think we're going to find it's going to require

00:37:43.520 some creative legal opportunities.

00:37:47.200 Now, the federal government has a lot of implicit authority,

00:37:50.800 Strictly speaking, of course, I mean, how much should the federal government have to do with a local prosecutor, right?

00:37:55.360 But all these cities get a lot of money from the federal government.

00:37:58.000 The federal government starts saying, listen, unless you start prosecuting property crimes again, we're cutting off the spigot.

00:38:04.260 Could apply enough pressure to get someone else in the job.

00:38:06.960 And every once in a while, increasingly, these Soros prosecutors are getting thrown out of office.

00:38:11.780 I know the one in L.A. or San Francisco, for example, just lost his run for re-election.

00:38:15.780 7 billion dollars i'm gonna check really quick the chat see um pearl ask him if you have the

00:38:28.620 right to deny jurisdiction to the original court no matter what happens so you can get

00:38:34.040 the co-fiction overturned or conviction i can keep that overturned on appeal

00:38:39.360 so i'm not exactly sure what he's asking jurisdiction is not a difficult issue in

00:38:46.980 criminal courts you committed an alleged crime in the county for example the court has jurisdiction

00:38:52.160 in that county that's it they have jurisdiction there are a group of people who refer to themselves

00:38:56.720 as sovereign citizens they believe they're not subject to the laws of the united states they

00:39:01.120 believe that u.s courts simply have no jurisdiction over them at all they're kind of crazy so i'm not

00:39:06.800 sure if he's one of those people and he's trying to ask the question from that angle. But I can

00:39:12.980 tell you, you can yell at a court all you want that the court does not have jurisdiction over

00:39:17.620 you. The court does not care. Okay. The other, Craig Thomas says, I've heard during World War

00:39:25.020 II, he printed, he pointed German, Craig, I can't say that on YouTube. I'm not going into that.

00:39:32.160 um guys comments that are relevant i can't i can't this isn't that topic um anyways

00:39:40.160 so

00:39:43.120 michael brown was another yeah guys i can't say that um so michael brown was another one

00:39:54.680 and that was was that the one with zimmerman it's kind of some of these happened when i was

00:40:00.340 in high school so i'm trying to think back michael brown was in ferguson missouri uh he was a uh a

00:40:06.500 very large uh black gentleman who was walking down the middle of a street and a patrol car came up

00:40:11.300 and yelled at him to get on the sidewalk get out of the street and michael brown attacked that

00:40:15.420 police officer in his patrol car fought him for control of the officer's pistol we know this

00:40:20.240 because the pistol in the struggle discharged inside the patrol car and took a chunk of michael

00:40:26.140 brown's a little piece of michael brown's hand his dna was found inside the car so we know there

00:40:31.000 was a fight for the gun there then michael brown ran off the police officer chased him on foot

00:40:35.720 police officer said halt police michael brown turned around michael brown was about 250 pounds

00:40:42.180 the police officer was about 160 michael brown turned around looked at the officer and charged

00:40:47.800 at him hands extended and the officer shot him as he was being charged and killed him the news

00:40:55.260 stories were that this officer executed Michael Brown for no reason. Michael Brown had his hands

00:40:59.540 up, is the narrative. Hands up, like he was surrendering. He had his hands up. He was reaching

00:41:04.720 for the officer's throat when the officer shot him. And the officer knew this guy was going to

00:41:09.160 fight him for his gun because he'd already done it. That was a perfectly lawful shooting. But

00:41:14.000 here's an interesting example. So the prosecutor in that jurisdiction said, well, I'm going to

00:41:18.960 present the facts and the law to a grand jury and let the grand jury decide whether this goes to

00:41:23.720 trial. Normally, a grand jury is a completely one-sided affair because the prosecutor is not

00:41:29.360 obliged to share evidence of innocence with the grand jury. They're only obliged to share evidence

00:41:34.640 of guilt. And if we ever only hear one side of a story, it sounds pretty compelling, right? So

00:41:40.300 normally a grand jury only hears from the prosecutor. They only hear the prosecutor's side.

00:41:44.160 So they return an indictment, guaranteed. What this prosecutor did was say, you know what,

00:41:49.200 grand jury, I'm going to show you all the evidence. The evidence consistent with guilt and the

00:41:53.420 evidence consistent with innocence all of it which he doesn't have to do the grand jury looked at all

00:41:57.820 that evidence and they refused to indict that police officer know what happened next that

00:42:02.240 prosecutor who had been the prosecutor in that jurisdiction for more than 30 years the next time

00:42:07.480 he was up for re-election george soros came to town financed a competitor against him and that

00:42:13.120 guy lost his career to a george soros finance candidate and is it difficult to become a

00:42:18.440 prosecutor is that something that's hard to like competitive I don't really know I mean it would

00:42:23.640 vary by jurisdiction you know in big cities prosecutors have more power and influence so

00:42:28.460 it would be more competitive most people don't live in big cities they live in rural areas and

00:42:33.140 there it's again generally it's just some guy who's been around a long time in the legal

00:42:37.760 profession been a prosecutor for a few years and decides he'd like that job for a little while

00:42:41.680 I'm just wondering if he loses his career as a prosecutor can he get hired again like what oh he

00:42:47.480 wouldn't need it i mean he was probably 60 by this point so i'm sure he just retired right

00:42:52.180 that's so crazy so the prosecutors are often and that's a lesson by the way yeah that was done as

00:43:00.780 a lesson that was done as a lesson to every other prosecutor in the country if you have a case like

00:43:05.600 this and you present a fair narrative to the grand jury when we want you to go after that cop

00:43:10.300 we're going to cost you your career we're going to come in here give a competitor quarter of a

00:43:15.280 million at your next election and you're going to lose. So now other prosecutors are looking at this

00:43:19.920 and what happens when you think when they get a case like this? You think they're going to treat

00:43:23.420 it in a fair way with the grand jury? Or you think they're going to get on board like that police

00:43:27.940 chief and say, well, either I can be destroyed with this police officer or I can join the team

00:43:32.840 destroying him. Right. So there's incentive to basically be unlawful in a lot of these cases.

00:43:43.940 if they become you really want to avoid getting anything politically motivated yeah like in these

00:43:50.180 self-defense cases you want to be off the radar screen you don't want anyone to know about your

00:43:53.540 case yep so wow sorry i'm like kind of blown away by some of this stuff um craig thomas that's about

00:44:05.940 Soros. Okay. So in your career as a lawyer, what are some of the most interesting cases you've had?

00:44:20.260 Well, they're all interesting in their own ways. So there's, you think about the ways that people

00:44:25.580 can screw up a claim of self-defense, people find every way to screw it up. There's basically five

00:44:32.100 things you need for a valid claim of self-defense. So it's not rocket science. It's not 500 things.

00:44:36.540 It's not 50 things. It's only five. And I call these the five elements of self-defense. Innocence,

00:44:42.100 imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness. Innocence meaning you didn't

00:44:46.280 start the fight, which should be obvious, right? If you start the fight, you can't claim self-defense.

00:44:51.300 Imminence meaning what you're defending yourself against is happening right now.

00:44:54.580 It's not someone who punched you yesterday and now you're getting them back. It's not somebody

00:44:58.540 who's threatening to harm you in the future but isn't a threat right now. It has to be a threat

00:45:02.420 that's occurring right now. Proportionality basically means you're not using deadly force

00:45:06.860 to defend yourself unless you're facing a deadly force threat. So if someone shoves you, you can't

00:45:11.420 go to the gun. That would be a disproportional response. Avoidance has to do with whether or

00:45:16.500 not you have a legal duty to retreat before you can defend yourself. There's only 11 states that

00:45:21.240 require that, so most states don't. And then reasonableness. Everything you perceive, you

00:45:27.540 decide you do in self-defense has to be that of a reasonable person. So it's not imaginary.

00:45:33.200 It's not speculative. It's something that another reasonable person in your circumstance would share

00:45:39.580 the same belief that you have. Could I get an example of reasonable versus unreasonable?

00:45:45.600 Yeah. So I had a case where a woman was in the parking lot of a Walmart and she was putting her 1.00

00:45:51.440 stuff in the trunk of her car. And a guy walks up and says, hey, do you have a light for a cigarette?

00:45:55.460 it and she pulled out a gun and pointed it at him now she was probably afraid this guy was going to 0.89

00:46:01.880 mug her muggers in fact use this kind of approach language all the time you have some change you

00:46:06.940 have the time do you have a light because they're trying to keep your brain occupied while they

00:46:11.300 close proximity to get close enough to hurt you or grab your purse or whatever that's probably

00:46:16.820 what she perceived was going on did she shoot him no she just pointed the gun but that guy ran back

00:46:23.860 into the Walmart, and he called the police, said, there's a crazy woman in the parking lot just 1.00

00:46:27.580 pointed a gun at me. The police showed up, and now they have to ask the woman, why did you point a

00:46:32.420 gun at that guy? For her to have a reasoned response, she would have had to say, well,

00:46:37.480 I saw these things that made me think he was a deadly force threat. He verbally said something,

00:46:43.580 he showed a weapon, some evidence to which she applied her powers of reason.

00:46:49.200 That would be a reasonable belief. She wasn't able to say anything like that.

00:46:52.200 so she got charged with a felony oh wow did you take her case

00:46:57.640 i did advise on the case she ended up taking a plea agreement 1.00

00:47:02.120 okay so still a felony but she didn't have to do time 0.97

00:47:05.340 so because i guess that would be an overreaction but i could see why she would do it 0.92

00:47:14.640 but that would still be in the eyes of the law unreasonable

00:47:18.920 Well, the prosecutor has to believe he can argue it was unreasonable to a jury.

00:47:23.860 And then a jury would make a call.

00:47:25.740 Now, this one ended up not going before a jury.

00:47:28.400 But the argument the prosecutor was going to be able to make was sufficiently compelling that we didn't want to risk a jury, which is why she took the plea.

00:47:34.300 Right.

00:47:35.320 And so what would be like an example of a reasonable one?

00:47:39.520 Say, for example, she had told the police, listen, this guy asked me for a light behind me.

00:47:44.600 And when I turned around, he was holding something shiny up at my face.

00:47:47.920 oh okay well yeah now maybe that would have been a pack of cigarettes not a weapon at all so maybe

00:47:53.360 technically she made a mistake about it being a weapon but a reasonable person might have seen

00:47:57.760 that flash of shiny light and thought it was a weapon reasonably right under the circumstances

00:48:03.840 that might have been enough to get her out of the conviction so what are some of um i guess going

00:48:08.800 back to the questions like are there any cases you've had over the years that really stand out

00:48:13.040 to you as being particular like have you ever um defended someone or maybe seen someone be

00:48:19.180 defended that you believed was innocent and went to jail uh not the cases i've worked

00:48:26.220 but we do get interesting cases we had one out of california a couple years ago it was a it was

00:48:31.480 a murder case it was a young woman i'm not sure she was 21 and she had a one-night stand with a

00:48:36.660 guy and they got into some kind of argument she says he attacked me she was quite petite and he

00:48:42.780 was much larger than her she had a little tiny folding knife that her dad had given her for

00:48:47.960 self-defense and she takes out this folding knife and this guy rushes at her and she stabs him once 0.97

00:48:53.460 in the chest with this little tiny knife well that little knife cut his aorta in his chest

00:48:58.720 which is the highest pressure blood vessel there is in the body the entire apartment in the forensics

00:49:04.540 photos it looked like someone had taken a hose of blood and sprayed everything and the guy falls

00:49:10.220 down a flight of stairs that gets all covered in blood and he dies at the base of the stairs

00:49:13.900 and the police show up she calls them and they question her and in every officer who spoke with

00:49:21.520 her wrote in his report she had a very cold demeanor she did not appear to be emotionally

00:49:27.220 upset that's what led to them charging her if she had been crying and weeping she might not

00:49:34.080 have been charged with murder but because who knows maybe she was in shock maybe she just has

00:49:39.480 good emotional self-control because of her calm demeanor that's what ended up with her being

00:49:44.880 charged with murder we got her acquitted by the way so you got her oh wow and do you do you think

00:49:52.040 their reactions mean anything like in your experience does that stuff matter no not

00:49:58.780 necessarily but the lesson here is that the people who are evaluating our use of force after the fact

00:50:05.540 or we're making decisions about whether we're going to go to trial,

00:50:09.060 run that risk of getting convicted, spend the rest of our life in a cage.

00:50:12.120 It's not a system that's like a big computer

00:50:13.980 where you put law and facts into one end and you crank a handle

00:50:16.740 and you get justice at the other end.

00:50:18.900 Inside that machine is human beings

00:50:20.940 with all their biases and frailties and prejudices.

00:50:25.540 And so these cops were just making an emotional judgment call

00:50:28.020 about how they felt about her demeanor.

00:50:30.240 And that's true at every step of the process.

00:50:32.340 Prosecutors are making those emotional judgment calls.

00:50:35.340 We like to think we're all rational, critical thinking people, but we're not really.

00:50:39.580 Humans are mostly emotional.

00:50:41.600 Our rationality is largely a veneer.

00:50:44.600 And then, of course, you have the jury.

00:50:46.080 And the jury is made up of emotional human beings too.

00:50:48.760 And the prosecutor makes emotional arguments to them to rev up their emotions.

00:50:52.800 That's not how it should work, but we're all human beings.

00:50:55.700 It's a process of human beings, and it's imperfect.

00:50:58.480 What do you think about Daniel Penny in New York?

00:51:07.540 Do you think he's going to get off, or do you think they're going to convict him?

00:51:10.200 I think he has the typical 10% chance of getting convicted.

00:51:14.100 I don't think he should be convicted, but I think he's running that chance.

00:51:17.420 And frankly, it's another bad outcome case.

00:51:19.880 I think no one was more surprised that Jordan Neely died than Daniel Penny.

00:51:25.200 I think he had no intention of causing harm to that guy at all.

00:51:28.160 He was just going to restrain him for police.

00:51:29.880 I don't believe he was choking him for more than a few seconds.

00:51:32.900 I think he was just restraining him with an arm around him.

00:51:36.720 But he was positioned to apply what we call a rear naked choke.

00:51:42.000 It's a particular choking technique from Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

00:51:45.720 And we apply it in the gym all the time.

00:51:47.360 I've applied the rear naked choke to hundreds of people.

00:51:49.640 I've had it applied to me hundreds of times.

00:51:51.560 No one in our gym has ever died of it.

00:51:53.640 but I think

00:51:55.940 what often happens is people get trained in this

00:51:57.880 technique and Daniel Penny was trained in the Marine Corps

00:51:59.960 on this technique I'm sure he applied it

00:52:01.940 to Marines they didn't die

00:52:03.620 his fellow Marines applied it to him

00:52:05.900 he didn't die but all the people we're

00:52:07.860 talking about are relatively young

00:52:09.820 healthy fit people

00:52:11.160 and I think when you take that same technique

00:52:14.040 and you apply it to someone with a compromised

00:52:15.900 physiology because they're homeless

00:52:17.680 or they're a lifelong alcoholic or they're

00:52:19.920 a drug addict or they have metabolic

00:52:21.780 disease or they have they're just

00:52:23.340 messed up physiologically they're frail you apply that same technique to them that never kills

00:52:29.400 anybody in your experience and that person that person with the frail physiology they just turn

00:52:34.400 off they just die i think that's what happened here now importantly jordan neely was actually

00:52:40.340 alive when the police arrived and daniel penny he had a pulse oh he was oh wow yep uh so it wasn't

00:52:48.540 You know, you would think if you were choking someone to death, they've got to be dead when you stop choking them.

00:52:54.480 If they're not dead yet, they start breathing again.

00:52:57.100 And we know Jordan Neely had a pulse.

00:52:58.840 We know the other people on the train have testified at his trial.

00:53:02.040 We hear from news reports that Jordan Neely was, in fact, threatening them with harm.

00:53:05.880 He wasn't afraid to go to jail, all this kind of stuff.

00:53:09.060 They were terrified.

00:53:11.060 So the evidence is overwhelmingly in Daniel Penny's favor.

00:53:14.520 The law is in his favor.

00:53:15.820 You're allowed to use force in defense of other people as well as yourself.

00:53:19.520 But it's a bad outcome case because we have a dead person.

00:53:22.620 And nobody wanted that person dead.

00:53:24.760 I'm sure Daniel Penny did not want Jordan Neely dead.

00:53:27.060 I'm sure no one was more surprised than him.

00:53:29.160 But here we have a dead body.

00:53:30.920 And now the prosecutor sees an opportunity to gain political advantage.

00:53:34.180 Of course, Daniel Penny is white. 0.75

00:53:35.860 Jordan Neely was black.

00:53:37.320 So we have that racial energized component again.

00:53:41.400 So is there anything he could have done differently?

00:53:45.080 Yeah, he could have not intervened.

00:53:46.880 Well, yeah.

00:53:48.020 And if he was going to intervene,

00:53:51.260 was there anything he could have done differently from your perspective?

00:53:54.860 You know, I do say in my own gym to my fellow students

00:53:58.960 that we need to be very careful with these chokes

00:54:01.200 because we're probably not going to be defending ourselves

00:54:03.940 against another member of our gym.

00:54:05.900 We're going to be defending ourselves out on the street

00:54:08.040 from someone who may well be homeless, alcoholic, drug addict,

00:54:12.320 and have this frail physiology. 1.00

00:54:14.120 and you might apply a choke and just kill this person. 0.98

00:54:16.720 I worked a murder case personally. 0.96

00:54:18.240 Well, we had a person from our gym

00:54:20.100 put a choke on a homeless person who was attacking him

00:54:22.820 and that guy died.

00:54:24.680 And my fellow gym student got charged

00:54:26.460 with murder, manslaughter, and criminally negligent homicide.

00:54:29.040 I had to testify as an expert witness at his trial.

00:54:31.880 Got him acquitted too, by the way.

00:54:34.340 But I advise people, listen,

00:54:35.880 if you have to do a choke to live,

00:54:37.360 you got to win the fight.

00:54:38.160 That's the most important thing.

00:54:39.660 But if you have an option other than a choke,

00:54:41.820 if you have a joint lock, something else you can do,

00:54:44.120 because you can put a joint lock on someone's elbow

00:54:46.680 and destroy their elbow, 0.63

00:54:48.200 but you're not gonna kill them by destroying their elbow.

00:54:51.340 Then you avoid that risk of the person just turning off

00:54:53.900 because you put a choke on them.

00:54:55.140 So would you advise your clients not to get involved

00:54:58.240 when they see something happen?

00:55:00.680 Would you just say it's not worth the risk?

00:55:02.480 It's a great question.

00:55:03.320 So I don't tell people what to do.

00:55:06.960 Everybody has kind of a different moral line

00:55:09.460 where they feel what the appropriate conduct is.

00:55:12.620 It's not my job to tell people to intervene or not intervene.

00:55:14.940 What I try to do is help people make an informed decision.

00:55:19.320 So if they're intervening,

00:55:20.640 they know what risks they're incurring.

00:55:22.820 And the risks of intervening are death and life in prison.

00:55:27.420 Those are the risks.

00:55:28.540 You go hands-on in a physical fight,

00:55:31.000 the risk of losing, of dying in that physical fight

00:55:33.640 is never zero.

00:55:34.820 It's something greater than zero.

00:55:37.200 You get involved in that legal fight,

00:55:38.420 you get fed into the criminal justice system,

00:55:40.360 the risk of conviction is never zero.

00:55:42.760 It's always more than zero.

00:55:44.220 So I tell people, just imagine

00:55:46.760 it's gonna go sideways on you.

00:55:48.000 Let's pretend you survived the fight

00:55:49.360 because otherwise we have nothing to talk about.

00:55:52.020 But that you do everything right,

00:55:53.640 but you still get convicted.

00:55:54.720 You get convicted, you get sentenced to jail for 20 years.

00:55:57.760 What's worth 20 years in prison?

00:56:00.180 There are things.

00:56:01.380 I'd rather be alive in prison than dead outside of prison.

00:56:04.540 I'd rather spend 20 years in prison 0.73

00:56:06.100 than watch my wife or children be killed.

00:56:08.820 But after that, I kind of run out of reasons I'd be willing to go to prison for 20 years.

00:56:11.480 Yeah, women you don't know. 1.00

00:56:14.480 Now, that's just how I think about it.

00:56:16.280 There are people out there who are going to say, no, it's the right thing to do to intervene and save that person.

00:56:20.740 And I'm not telling you not to do that.

00:56:22.760 I'm not telling you not to do that, audience.

00:56:25.000 If you want to intervene, intervene.

00:56:26.260 Just make an informed decision knowing what the risks are.

00:56:31.160 I think if it was me, I mean, because I was on Tim Pool a couple of months ago.

00:56:36.760 and i'm not i mean you've seen my channel it's not super into politics we just touch on maybe

00:56:43.120 like the men's rights stuff but one of the stuff one of the topics on the show was i think there

00:56:50.960 was people on a train watching a woman get um assaulted or raped on it nobody intervened and

00:56:56.040 everyone looked at me like i was crazy when i said why would he because you know men see this

00:57:01.760 stuff on the news. And if you don't know her, I don't think that's worth 20 years in prison 0.98

00:57:08.240 or your life. I got stuff to do. I got four kids to raise. It's a pretty high threshold for me to

00:57:15.020 be willing to go to prison. Yeah. And you see... By the way, I also think to myself, you know,

00:57:19.980 when I became an adult, I went out, I got a gun. I got a license to carry that gun. I got trained

00:57:26.060 in how to use it. I learned what the laws were. I consider that a fundamental adult responsibility.

00:57:30.820 The ability to protect myself and the people I have a duty to protect from criminal predators.

00:57:36.500 That person could have done that.

00:57:38.560 Where's their gun?

00:57:39.660 Why aren't they defending themselves?

00:57:41.240 Equal rights, equal left.

00:57:41.740 Why is their failure to do that make me responsible now for their safety?

00:57:46.720 Well, in New York, too, you can't...

00:57:49.100 I'm assuming it's so left you can't carry a gun, right?

00:57:52.320 It varies a little bit across the state.

00:57:54.360 So you have kind of the New York City center and then the area around the city.

00:57:57.960 And then you have upstate New York, which is more rural.

00:58:00.260 and the the gun laws vary in all those different places within new york city it's all but impossible

00:58:05.220 to get a concealed carry permit and if you get one in some other part of the state it's not valid

00:58:09.780 in new york city so what if someone's getting attacked in new york and they shoot them with a

00:58:16.260 gun that they're not allowed to carry what happens that actually happened so in the i want to say the

00:58:22.100 1980s there was a guy riding on a subway his name was bernie getz he'd been previously mugged on the

00:58:27.540 the subway. He'd gone and he'd applied for a New York City concealed carry permit, which technically

00:58:32.740 exists, but is impossible to get. And they refused to give him one. He went out and got a revolver

00:58:37.300 anyway. So he was carrying a revolver unlawfully in New York. And sure enough, he gets attacked on

00:58:42.560 the subway again by four young men with sharpened screwdrivers, threatening him with weapons. He

00:58:47.680 pulls out his revolver, he shoots him. And then he flees. He actually runs off to Connecticut, 0.99

00:58:53.500 doesn't report the shooting, but of course it's in all the media, right? A subway vigilante shot

00:58:58.020 these four young black men on the subway. There's a manhunt out for him. He turns himself in and

00:59:04.760 he's prosecuted. He's prosecuted for the shooting, the use of force crime, the shooting these four

00:59:09.060 people, and he's prosecuted for the gun crime. Well, when the jury comes back with a verdict,

00:59:13.840 they acquitted him of all the use of force crimes. So the shooting itself was lawful,

00:59:18.440 lawful self-defense. And they convicted him of the gun crime because it was in fact unlawful

00:59:23.080 for him to have the gun.

00:59:24.480 So in that kind of situation,

00:59:25.900 we end up dealing with the use of force stuff,

00:59:28.120 the self-defense claims on the one hand,

00:59:30.780 and the gun law stuff on the other hand.

00:59:33.480 And he was cleared for the shooting

00:59:34.920 and convicted of the gun.

00:59:36.640 So did he go to jail?

00:59:38.080 He went to jail.

00:59:38.740 For how long?

00:59:40.300 I think it was a few months.

00:59:42.000 And then I think he was sentenced maybe to eight months,

00:59:44.200 and he did four, and then he was released.

00:59:46.280 But in that case, I mean, that would be worth it

00:59:49.080 because, I mean, eight months versus...

00:59:53.080 maybe being dead yeah again i don't tell people what to do so i'm not telling anyone to carry a

00:59:58.220 gun unlawfully um you know if you kind of do the math and decide well you know would i take a gun

01:00:03.960 conviction over being dead i don't know people have to make their own choices i never thought

01:00:08.940 about it like that they might move to a place where it's lawful to carry a gun i mean there's

01:00:14.580 like 45 states that make it routinely possible to carry a gun lawfully for personal protection

01:00:19.640 I know because I carry guns in all of them.

01:00:22.140 I never thought about it like that with the gun.

01:00:26.000 Like, I mean, we can make money just like the men. 0.93

01:00:28.480 We can protect it.

01:00:29.240 Now we have guns, so we can protect ourselves just like the men.

01:00:32.160 So there's not really an excuse to be in that situation, really.

01:00:36.360 I mean, you can always carry a gun for the most part.

01:00:40.720 I will say, you know, it's a little inconvenient to carry a gun.

01:00:44.200 It's another hunk of metal you have on your body.

01:00:47.120 It's a responsibility, right?

01:00:48.700 You have to make sure it's always secure that no unauthorized person can access the gun.

01:00:53.260 You need to be proficient with it.

01:00:55.180 So if you're going to use it, you're using it effectively and you're not just sending bullets down the street to strike innocent people.

01:01:01.720 And you need to be determined enough to use it should it come to that so somebody just doesn't take the gun off you.

01:01:06.920 And none of that's impossible.

01:01:08.060 It's not even really very difficult.

01:01:09.480 We went shooting today.

01:01:10.300 It was the first time you ever shot a handgun.

01:01:11.740 You did great.

01:01:12.620 You were fantastic.

01:01:13.580 So it's not hard to learn to shoot a handgun well enough for personal protection.

01:01:17.520 but I think people have to make the affirmative choice to do that and commit themselves to doing

01:01:23.900 what they need to do to acquire the low but necessary expertise and mindset to be able to

01:01:29.980 bring it to bear. So I just thought I had a question in my head but I forgot it and it's

01:01:37.220 really bothering me. Wisdom just wiped it out. No it was such a good question and it's it was

01:01:42.000 something about oh I can't remember this is going to drive me nuts. I'm going to remember it later.

01:01:47.520 Faisal Lay says, on October 10th, a driver accused me of hitting his equipment, got aggressive, and shot me, but missed.

01:01:54.540 Police arrested him.

01:01:55.680 I may be subpoenaed.

01:01:56.840 Do I need legal representation?

01:01:59.660 I mean, if it's easy for you to have legal representation, I would do it.

01:02:03.040 My general rule of thumb is, you know, people say when you're interacting with the police, just don't talk to the police.

01:02:08.160 Never talk to the police.

01:02:09.140 That's the cliche.

01:02:10.720 I think it's more subtle than that.

01:02:12.480 I think if you're a criminal, never talk to the police.

01:02:15.700 So if you're actually a criminal, please don't talk to the police.

01:02:17.900 Nothing good will happen to you.

01:02:19.680 On the other hand, if you're attacked and you defend yourself and you're calling 911,

01:02:23.600 you're calling the police, you're talking to them.

01:02:27.580 You're telling them what happened.

01:02:29.460 It doesn't make sense to me that you would defend yourself, call 911,

01:02:33.080 and it goes, ring, ring, ring, 911, what's your emergency?

01:02:35.880 And you're literally not going to say anything.

01:02:37.820 Why bother calling them?

01:02:39.420 Right.

01:02:40.480 I do think that it's a fair position kind of in the middle where you're not a criminal.

01:02:44.980 but you didn't call the police the police called you they want to they just called you we'd like

01:02:51.620 to ask you questions you can cooperate if you want it's possible to say things that get you in

01:02:57.460 trouble and you're perfectly entitled and I think it's a reasonable choice when the police when the

01:03:02.160 police call you and say we have questions to tell them I don't answer questions polite not rude

01:03:11.100 I'm sorry, I just don't answer questions.

01:03:13.600 And there's really nothing they can do with that.

01:03:15.280 If they have probable cause to believe you've committed some crime,

01:03:17.780 they can arrest you, but they could do that anyway.

01:03:19.700 You're not giving them more ammunition to use against you.

01:03:25.180 Or you can just go back to the 1950s

01:03:28.000 and answer all the questions the cops ask you,

01:03:29.860 and I just hope it doesn't go sideways.

01:03:33.140 In the 1950s, it was different?

01:03:36.400 I think, well, who knows for sure.

01:03:39.260 We'd like to believe it was a kinder, gentler nation then where there was less law enforcement, malevolence, less of this political dynamic.

01:03:48.500 I don't know.

01:03:49.300 I suppose if I spoke to someone who had to deal with the police back then, maybe they would tell me that it's just a figment of my imagination.

01:03:58.780 Is there a difference between self-defense with the different types of weapons?

01:04:05.300 so I would imagine the laws are pretty much the same even if it's like a gun a

01:04:11.840 knife in terms of it's still reasonable doubt or sorry not reasonable doubt

01:04:17.780 the law doesn't really care what weapon you use it cares a lot about the amount

01:04:22.700 of force you're using so the law of self-defense puts force into two buckets

01:04:26.480 there's non-deadly force force not likely to cause death or serious bodily

01:04:30.620 injury and there's deadly force which means more than death that can kill you

01:04:34.520 it means force that can cause death or serious bodily injury so a maiming injury a broken bone

01:04:40.360 that's deadly force even if you would never have died from it um so once you're in the deadly force

01:04:47.680 bucket you're being threatened with deadly force and you're using deadly force in self-defense

01:04:51.740 the law doesn't care how you do that it could be using a knife it could be using a gun it could be

01:04:58.860 running someone over with your car it could be something from the wily coyote cartoons where you

01:05:03.800 drop a piano from a great height onto their head it doesn't really matter uh the law cares a lot

01:05:09.180 about whether the conditions for deadly force have been met but it doesn't really care a lot

01:05:13.420 about what form the deadly force takes yeah that makes sense but again it's a lot more efficient

01:05:20.420 uh yeah using a knife or a piano from a great height well i'm in london or i would not anymore

01:05:25.300 but i was in london so it was all stabbings there right i was more it would be weird because

01:05:30.960 in america it's all it's guns yeah guns but there you would hear about people getting stabbed with

01:05:37.300 like a machete yeah right and just personally i'd rather get shot than stabbed if i have to go

01:05:43.580 yeah i can tell you from personal experience that gunshots are way easier uh than than bladed

01:05:49.280 injuries uh sharp blades create unbelievably grievous injuries you get shot 80 percent of

01:05:55.760 people in america who are shot with a handgun survive which actually tells us another lesson

01:06:00.640 which is that if anyone's thinking they're going to point a gun at a bad guy and the bad guy is

01:06:05.660 just going to run away, that happens a lot, but it's not guaranteed. A lot of bad guys out there,

01:06:10.680 they've been shot. They're that 80% that's been shot before and survived. They're still bad guys.

01:06:15.660 They're still on the street. They're not all that scared of your gun. They've been shot before and

01:06:19.640 they're still here doing bad guy stuff. So you really have to be prepared. If that gun comes out,

01:06:25.540 you have to be prepared to use that gun. It doesn't mean you have to use the gun.

01:06:29.800 Maybe they will run away, and then you don't need to shoot them.

01:06:33.160 That would be nice.

01:06:33.800 That would be a good outcome.

01:06:35.180 But you need to be prepared to use it.

01:06:38.280 What do you mean by prepared?

01:06:40.020 Like you have to know how to shoot?

01:06:42.500 You have to be willing to use the gun.

01:06:45.420 Oh, you can't be scared to pull the trigger because they'll sense that.

01:06:48.980 They'll know for sure.

01:06:50.280 Yeah.

01:06:51.280 Most police officers who are shot are shot with their own guns.

01:06:54.640 No way.

01:06:55.140 Yep. 0.90

01:06:55.720 The bad guy takes the gun off the cop and shoots him with his own gun.

01:06:59.500 no way how does that happen is it just because they hesitate it's because it's very easy to take

01:07:05.420 a gun off of somebody it's shockingly easy really yep for one thing the grip on a gun

01:07:13.580 is generally shorter than the length of the slide so if you're holding the grip you have a short

01:07:19.020 lever and if they grab the slide they have a long lever they have more leverage than you do 0.83

01:07:23.740 um so if someone's coming like to grab you just have to shoot them like right away as far as i'm

01:07:31.920 concerned if they're grabbing for your gun it's no different than they were reaching for a gun on the 0.98

01:07:35.600 table yeah in fact it's worse because if they're reaching for a gun on the table they're reaching

01:07:40.080 for a gun but you still have yours if they grab your gun they're arming themselves and disarming

01:07:44.560 you at the same time i've seen uh in prison surveillance video of prisoners practicing with

01:07:49.880 each other how to strip guns away they practice with each other how to strip guns away

01:07:56.600 so they're training are you training no not you but i mean if anyone out there is carrying a gun

01:08:07.600 and hasn't taken a class in weapons retention how to how to mitigate the risk of having the gun taken

01:08:12.720 that they're doing it wrong there's an update you need to articulate what you did

01:08:19.920 i can't understand bob's comments he said 70 percent are shot oh they're shot off duty

01:08:27.420 of cops oh i don't know about that oh you don't think that's true or you don't know i just never

01:08:33.380 heard that statistic i'm not sure where it's coming from yeah he said this guy in the chat

01:08:37.560 says yes it's from bob bob well you can't trust bob isn't he one of the minions what isn't he one

01:08:44.100 of the minions i don't he um they just pay to get in the live chat and i'll read their stuff

01:08:49.120 um what do you think's the worst case you've seen in the media where um would you because for me

01:08:59.100 it'd be derek chauvin would that be the worst one you've seen in terms of like innocent guy

01:09:04.260 getting put no because i see a lot of bad ones uh there was one recently um i believe the officer's

01:09:10.460 name was aaron dean police officer he's called to a house in the middle of the night burglary in

01:09:15.160 progress it's the winter all the doors are open in the house so it looks like it's been ransacked

01:09:20.340 he shows up there and the first thing he's been trained to do is first search the outside of the

01:09:26.240 house make sure there's not people lurking so he's walking around the outside of the house with his

01:09:30.240 flashlight he peers into a window of the house and the other side of the window someone's pointing

01:09:35.160 a gun at him so he has his own gun in his hand because he's looking for a burglar and he shoots

01:09:40.060 it turns out the person inside the house was the resident of the house i was a young black woman 0.95

01:09:45.620 who lived in the house she probably thought it was the burglar a burglar outside the house 0.92

01:09:50.440 right that she was pointing the gun at and this is a classic example of a a shooting i would say

01:09:57.100 was awful, but lawful, right?

01:10:00.220 She didn't need to die.

01:10:01.500 She wasn't doing anything criminal.

01:10:03.340 But did he have a reasonable perception

01:10:05.460 based on the information he knew

01:10:07.400 that he was facing an imminent,

01:10:09.360 unlawful, deadly force threat?

01:10:10.620 He did.

01:10:11.640 And he got convicted.

01:10:12.680 I think that was a horribly unjust conviction.

01:10:15.160 He went to jail?

01:10:16.000 Yeah, he's in jail right now.

01:10:17.640 No.

01:10:19.520 Another case just happened very recently.

01:10:22.000 Before you go, was there a robber in that one?

01:10:23.820 No.

01:10:24.680 Oh, there wasn't even a...

01:10:27.100 So she just thought there was and there wasn't.

01:10:29.800 He was searching around the outside of the house.

01:10:31.660 She probably heard him walking around outside.

01:10:33.760 It's 2 a.m., 3 a.m. in the morning.

01:10:35.600 So she probably thought, holy cow, there's somebody sneaking around outside my house.

01:10:39.560 But she wasn't the one who called the cops?

01:10:41.660 No, the neighbors across the street called the cops because they called.

01:10:45.360 They said, hey, we're looking at our neighbor's house.

01:10:47.040 All the windows and doors are open.

01:10:49.000 We think there's a burglary going on.

01:10:51.060 Can you send the cop to check it out?

01:10:52.320 Because it's the middle of winter at 2 a.m. and the doors are open.

01:10:55.060 Why were they open?

01:10:56.740 I don't think we ever knew, actually.

01:10:59.620 Maybe she's smoking weed or something. 1.00

01:11:01.460 Well, who knows?

01:11:02.820 People might smoke funny things.

01:11:04.560 That's the only reason I could think of.

01:11:07.720 Or maybe they burned something in the kitchen,

01:11:10.060 they opened up the doors, and then they fell asleep

01:11:11.680 or passed out or whatever and forgot the doors were open.

01:11:14.100 Who knows?

01:11:15.640 There was another case recently, just this year,

01:11:17.940 in Wisconsin, the Apple River stabbing case.

01:11:20.900 Nikolai Mew was 50-ish, fat, quadruple bypass.

01:11:25.940 a heart patient, floating on the river with his wife and some friends.

01:11:30.100 One of his friends lost her cell phone in a little floaty bag,

01:11:33.160 so he wandered around looking for it.

01:11:35.340 Got into close proximity of some very drunk and high school boys

01:11:38.780 who started taunting him.

01:11:40.720 The taunting turned into a fight.

01:11:42.060 They were beating him into the river, 13 to 1.

01:11:45.440 And when he came out of the river, he came out with a pocket knife.

01:11:48.620 And basically, they threw themselves onto his knife.

01:11:51.800 He stabbed, I think it was three people, one of them fatally.

01:11:55.580 He didn't stab anyone who wasn't attacking him,

01:11:58.340 but he was brought to trial and he was convicted.

01:12:01.260 And I think that was a completely unjust conviction.

01:12:03.320 I think he had more than a reasonable perception

01:12:05.480 that he was facing an unlawful, deadly force fight,

01:12:07.880 that he was going to die in that river

01:12:09.400 if he didn't take out that knife and defend himself.

01:12:12.220 But nevertheless, he's convicted.

01:12:13.380 He's going to spend the rest of his life in prison.

01:12:15.120 Was it on camera?

01:12:16.420 What was his name?

01:12:17.140 It was.

01:12:17.520 It was caught because the tubers all had their phones out.

01:12:21.080 What was his name?

01:12:21.800 I believe it's Nikolai

01:12:24.340 If you Google Apple River Stabbing

01:12:26.540 That would probably be the best

01:12:27.580 He's Romanian so his name has an odd spelling

01:12:30.840 River Stabbing

01:12:32.080 That's it, that's the video

01:12:36.300 That's him

01:12:37.100 I mean you know this

01:12:39.360 Is this going to get me flagged on YouTube

01:12:41.360 I don't know how far they go

01:12:43.620 I would not play it

01:12:45.440 Don't put it on the screen, I'm just going to watch it though

01:12:48.520 One of the victims gets literally

01:12:50.460 Disemboweled in the river

01:12:51.700 okay they can't see it so that's it they're yelling at him they're gonna in a moment he's

01:13:03.300 gonna get punched um so he's looking for his friend's cell phone but why were they attacking

01:13:12.560 him they were just they were all drunk and they were just making fun of him like teenage boys 0.54

01:13:17.060 will do they were acting like a little lord of the flies gang he starts walking away from them

01:13:23.060 here but he's down river so everything's floating towards him so they catch up they're calling him

01:13:30.320 a child predator they're shouting all kinds of insults at him and he's not doing anything

01:13:37.020 offensive here they're screaming yelling and right about now he's going to get punched 0.98

01:13:44.780 a girl is going to come up and yell at him 1.00

01:13:48.560 right there

01:13:51.800 what are they yelling at him for?

01:13:54.720 they're all drunk

01:13:55.360 yeah but I've been drunk before

01:13:59.020 and I've never, like for what?

01:14:01.140 well the others have been calling him a child predator

01:14:03.340 she may think he's a child predator

01:14:04.840 she's telling him get away from these kids

01:14:06.560 oh because he's just kind of not an attractive guy

01:14:11.160 and so they're just kind of bullying

01:14:12.640 and a stranger

01:14:13.580 not part of their group

01:14:15.360 and that woman comes up and screams in his face again 1.00

01:14:22.180 he puts his hand up

01:14:23.480 right there, maintain distance

01:14:25.900 and one of the guys takes a fence

01:14:28.280 and punches him into the water

01:14:29.840 he's surrounded

01:14:36.420 13 to 1 here

01:14:37.540 there wow imagine the chaos all these people screaming like there he goes he's in the water

01:14:47.680 kicked him he's on he's face down they're pushing him down and now he's got the knife in his hand

01:14:53.140 he doesn't pursue anyone the only people who get stabbed are the people who come to him

01:14:59.120 that guy got cut pretty bad oh so he came at him

01:15:07.160 and at this point in the video they realize that people are bleeding and they all start

01:15:13.760 screaming how could this have happened like they weren't involved i can't believe wow

01:15:21.440 that's insane so they all attacked him and he went to jail yep prison he's convicted what was

01:15:32.000 his name i want to get that because i think nicolai mu i believe his last name is miu

01:15:36.340 a river stack because i think the what i think i saw was him crying like he was a trial was he

01:15:43.800 saying sorry to them or something yeah i believe this was a sentencing so wow he lost a ton of

01:15:49.880 weight he lost a ton of weight yep wow you know his wife divorced you can his wife they always

01:15:57.240 leave no this is why because they knew they were going to get sued so they divorced they agreed to

01:16:04.100 divorce so she could protect some assets and she testified at trial and the defense lawyer says

01:16:09.980 did you love your husband that day on the river she said yes do you still love your husband yes

01:16:14.560 i do did they protect any of their assets i don't know or no i didn't follow it the oh this is really

01:16:22.600 long okay i was there was some clip i saw which was i think him apologizing to

01:16:29.600 wow

01:16:32.240 I don't think he did anything wrong

01:16:33.880 but once you're convicted and you're going to be sentenced

01:16:35.820 you say what you need to say to try to get a

01:16:37.800 mitigated sentence

01:16:38.880 yeah I don't think

01:16:40.900 they all frustrated

01:16:43.720 witness frustrated during cross

01:16:45.860 examination

01:16:46.600 witness says Mew defended himself

01:16:50.100 how did the

01:16:51.760 teenagers the ones that were 0.86

01:16:53.840 watching did they all take whose side

01:16:55.560 I'm assuming they took their friend's son

01:16:57.560 so one of their friends died

01:16:59.600 So now this is a mission to avenge their friend.

01:17:03.360 So one person died?

01:17:05.400 Yeah, one got disemboweled in the river.

01:17:07.480 He lived, believe it or not.

01:17:08.320 What does disemboweled mean?

01:17:09.800 His abdomen was opened up and his gut spilled into the river.

01:17:13.160 Oh, my goodness.

01:17:15.300 So he looks like a different person.

01:17:18.940 Wow, the system really, if it gets politicized,

01:17:23.320 that seems to be like the kiss of death is when politics become involved.

01:17:27.340 Well, it certainly means you're in a fight for your life.

01:17:29.120 So it doesn't mean you'll be convicted.

01:17:31.120 Zimmerman wasn't convicted.

01:17:32.380 Rittenhouse wasn't convicted.

01:17:34.180 But it certainly ups the stakes, and you're definitely going to trial.

01:17:38.000 So it's very common in a killing case where a self-defender has been charged with murder or manslaughter

01:17:43.800 to spend in excess of $200,000 before you even get to trial, and then it just goes up from there.

01:17:50.080 But if they don't have the money, where does it come from?

01:17:52.300 To get a public defender.

01:17:53.800 And those guys are really overworked, right?

01:17:56.400 They're overworked is the fair way to put it.

01:17:58.840 They get a bad reputation, like they're bad lawyers.

01:18:01.140 They're not bad lawyers.

01:18:02.180 In fact, I would advise anyone who's thinking about going to the law,

01:18:05.660 if you want trial experience, become a public defender.

01:18:08.360 You'll get more trial experience there than anywhere else in the world.

01:18:12.620 If you join a private firm, you won't see the inside of a courtroom for years.

01:18:16.320 If you're a public defender, you'll be in a courtroom all day, every day of the week.

01:18:19.880 Often they're the best lawyers, but they are way overworked.

01:18:23.160 Instead of having one client or five clients at a time, they have 50 or 100.

01:18:26.900 it's unmanageable and so so i'm guessing more people can be put in jail like unjustly then

01:18:33.900 because they're that's part of the process they just don't have the time so you know a trial is

01:18:39.420 a war it's a battle and just like any other war how many resources you can bring to the fight

01:18:44.240 matters right if you had two nations and one of them had a million people and one of them had a

01:18:48.360 hundred million people it's not hard to predict who's going to win right that's an interesting

01:18:53.580 by the way the prosecutor knows this right the prosecutor can see whether or not you have a

01:18:57.580 public defender or an expensive private lawyer he knows how many resources you have wow it's

01:19:02.860 so interesting because we grow up thinking that the justice system is fair and i i guess it's

01:19:08.060 probably more fair than some parts of the world item that would i think it's the best system

01:19:12.620 anywhere yeah but it still has profound defects yeah because it's run by humans right so

01:19:18.460 So do you think that money buys freedom, then, by that?

01:19:24.220 I think it's better to have more resources than fewer resources, for sure.

01:19:28.260 That's such a lawyer answer.

01:19:31.120 That's such a good one.

01:19:33.300 Okay.

01:19:34.720 Is there anything else important that you think the audience should know about self-defense?

01:19:38.700 Yeah, they should get my free book, Law of Self-Defense Principles.

01:19:44.420 Most people read it in an afternoon.

01:19:47.220 And, again, it's free.

01:19:47.920 Get it at lawofselfdefense.com slash free book.

01:19:51.160 Check it out on Amazon.

01:19:52.320 It's got 1,500 reviews.

01:19:53.700 It's five-star rated, but don't buy it on Amazon because they'll charge you,

01:19:57.160 I think it's $20 or $25 for the book, plus shipping and handling.

01:20:00.640 We only ask you to cover the cost of sending the book to you.

01:20:03.060 The book itself is free, lawofselfdefense.com slash free book.

01:20:08.160 That is the best marketing that you can read it in the afternoon

01:20:11.600 because people that don't read will still get it.

01:20:13.940 Yeah, I hope so.

01:20:15.040 I was like, that's such a good tagline.

01:20:17.920 Okay, well, tell the people where they can find you, too, YouTube, Twitter.

01:20:22.380 Yeah, I'm on YouTube.

01:20:25.120 I am on Twitter, but mostly it's like political opinion,

01:20:28.220 so I don't know if I can encourage people to do that.

01:20:30.440 But you can find me on Twitter, Law Self-Defense, at Law Self-Defense.

01:20:34.740 I'm on YouTube.

01:20:37.620 We're on other social media, but it's all marketing people doing that stuff.

01:20:40.840 I'm not on there personally, so I don't really know what those people do.

01:20:43.980 lawofselfdefense.com is the website slash free book for the free book well thanks so much for

01:20:50.220 coming out and being our first in person it's a nice studio right so i get like a number one

01:20:56.040 medallion or something no maybe we'll you know we could have like um someday we could have like a

01:21:01.080 wall signing or something for people that come i don't know but all right guys thanks so much for

01:21:06.680 watching please make sure you like the video and subscribe on your way out and also if you guys

01:21:11.360 want to see me imagine imagine that I could interview Chauvin or some of these guys that get

01:21:17.920 that the whole media is against butt pearl the only way I can do that is if I have a lot of you

01:21:24.200 on the audacitynetwork.com so please go there like the video on your way out and subscribe

01:21:30.160 to the channel bring that notification bell and I will see you next time

01:21:41.360 You

Pearl - November 19, 2024

The Broken Legal System EXPOSED! ｜ Pearl Daily @TheBrancaShow

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