Pearl - Tilly MiddleHurst

00:00:00.000 No, because men are useless.

00:00:04.120 This headline from The Hill, it caught my eye.

00:00:06.900 Most young men are single.

00:00:08.580 Most young women are not.

00:00:09.920 Young men have fallen faster than any demographic in America over the last 40 years.

00:00:14.600 It's a different world now.

00:00:15.660 We don't need men the way that they used to.

00:00:17.660 Nobody needs men.

00:00:18.880 The future is female.

00:00:21.940 Men and women are drifting further apart, and society is crumbling because of it.

00:00:28.560 A fascinating debate has broken out about the value of marriage.

00:00:31.740 You've kind of got the trad con versus red pill thing.

00:00:34.440 This men's rights crowd that sometimes just goes too far the other way.

00:00:38.000 You need to stop acting like grown boys and infants and actually become men.

00:00:42.100 Marriage is a bond and it's a sacred bond.

00:00:44.720 It's a machine designed to extract resources from you.

00:00:47.740 Now many of the red pill have taken the position that it's bad for men to get married.

00:00:52.620 Hannah Pearl Davis or just pearly things.

00:00:56.000 one of the most controversial faces in all of the internet she goes on to say that marriage

00:01:01.300 is a terrible deal for men because if me and you were in a business contract you would never sign

00:01:06.000 a contract where i am paid to leave gee what could go wrong there 74 or something of divorces are

00:01:12.360 initiated by women men have everything to lose primarily their own children men get killed by

00:01:17.960 the courts and by divorce laws i had no idea that courts of family law were courts of equity not

00:01:23.320 courts of law. Because in family court, you don't need evidence to accuse someone of abuse. You need

00:01:27.760 no evidence. When you guys say get married young, a lot of these men don't know what they're signing

00:01:31.680 up for, and you're not going to be there when their entire life falls apart. I interview them

00:01:36.440 on the other side. I didn't meet my son until he was 15 months old. How much did you spend trying

00:01:41.820 to get him back? The legal fees alone was about $200,000. Before you know it, you're homeless.

00:01:46.460 You're literally just thrown out onto the street. We absolutely reinforce bad behavior from women.

00:01:50.540 Wives are taught to leave their husbands and then daughters grow up without their fathers

00:01:54.740 Family is the foundation of society

00:01:56.640 Every problem in society comes from single mother homes

00:01:59.740 A lot of women will just chase this negative rabbit hole of happiness, endless happiness

00:02:04.020 Feminism's biggest failure is in lives to women

00:02:06.140 We tell women to date as many guys as possible

00:02:07.960 We tell them to put off family into marriage

00:02:09.560 You are allowed to leave your perfect husband

00:02:12.400 You are allowed to end a relationship with a really great boyfriend

00:02:16.760 Oh freeze your ex, have an abortion

00:02:18.260 What? You're evil

00:02:19.880 I don't think there's anything else in life that we actually ever go into preparing to fail.

00:02:23.940 Like if you have the mentality of this is going to go wrong and be pessimistic,

00:02:28.020 naturally the outcome is going to be that it's going to fail anyway.

00:02:30.760 It's self-sabotage.

00:02:31.680 And that's the thing, like women are so willing to leave marriages because they're not happy.

00:02:35.440 This is not about happiness.

00:02:37.240 The most important thing is the children.

00:02:39.520 And the problem is we have a modern society where it's me, me, me, my feelings,

00:02:44.020 leave when I feel like it instead of doing what's best for the kids.

00:02:48.080 This myth that we live in an age of male privilege, where's my male privilege?

00:02:51.860 They think, well, men have all the rights.

00:02:53.400 They have all the power.

00:02:54.660 Privileged patriarchal system that we have.

00:02:56.960 Why doesn't our society care about men's rights?

00:02:59.560 I have no friends.

00:03:00.880 No white and no socialite.

00:03:02.800 Men are alone in this situation.

00:03:04.720 Men are homeless.

00:03:05.700 Men are thinking about eating guns.

00:03:07.440 I've seen so many men on the brink of suicide and they didn't do anything wrong.

00:03:11.760 How are you equal if the men are the ones that have to fight and die to defend the country?

00:03:17.340 The men are the ones that build and maintain all the infrastructure.

00:03:21.240 Women are helplessly dependent upon men.

00:03:23.840 The so-called deaths of despair from suicide, overdose, or alcohol,

00:03:27.820 three times higher among men than among women.

00:03:30.900 Culture is telling men, you are no good.

00:03:32.760 You've got to get your act together.

00:03:33.960 I think men have failed themselves.

00:03:35.580 What kind of a man are you?

00:03:36.820 What kind of a woman are you going to attract?

00:03:38.780 If men are in trouble, so are women.

00:03:41.220 everybody knows this is a huge problem but nobody wants to admit it every single woman at the table

00:03:46.600 said they wanted a man 500k 500k 300k 200k am i crazy everything is really set up against you

00:03:51.960 to fail as a man if men make less than women women don't want to marry them so you know who

00:03:57.000 wants more economically and emotionally viable men women i don't want to be an independent woman

00:04:03.420 anymore i don't want to be a strong independent woman i'm over it when is it going to be my turn

00:04:08.660 Where are we meeting the men that don't stop?

00:04:10.500 I can't keep having these same conversations.

00:04:13.280 The only simp here is you, Pearl. You simp for men.

00:04:15.140 No, I think you simp for women.

00:04:16.580 She's a provocateur. She says stupid stuff.

00:04:18.740 But Pearl is right about this.

00:04:20.000 It's already happening. It's just not out in the open yet.

00:04:22.600 Now it's just hookup culture is going to be our fairy tale ending

00:04:25.220 because men don't want a wife and women can't find a husband.

00:04:28.240 The future, if everybody follows your path, is there is no future.

00:04:32.500 We go into population decline and our economy goes into decline.

00:04:36.600 Civilization will crumble.

00:04:37.880 The American story does not end well. This is an existential crisis failing young men.

00:04:50.360 What's up, guys? Welcome to another episode of Pearl Daily here on the Audacity Network.

00:04:56.220 Thank you guys so much. You could bring your time, attention, and resources anywhere.

00:05:00.700 And for some reason, you guys choose to tune into this show. And for that, I'm eternally

00:05:06.400 grateful thank you guys so much if you want to donate to the divorce documentary um the link is

00:05:13.480 in the description we have a gofundme we want to raise a hundred thousand dollars to put on this

00:05:18.040 documentary um i've been demonetized kicked off a tiktok eight times instagram three times they

00:05:24.140 really don't want this to come out i'm telling you um but our plan would be and we just hit

00:05:30.260 thirty six thousand six hundred and five dollars thank you guys all right we got a ian donation

00:05:38.060 robert donation whitney donation um i always use first names just in case you guys want to be

00:05:43.740 anonymous um sam thank you for the donation alexander thank you for the donation made about

00:05:49.600 100 bucks yesterday so i do appreciate it thank you guys so much almost 500 donations total

00:05:55.480 all right so um a couple of updates if you guys want to go to the audacity network.com

00:06:02.360 um we are going to be doing another live stream on um and on our audacity academy series tomorrow

00:06:10.200 so last week i did some thumbnails and i kind of talked about thumbnails i hate

00:06:16.560 and thumbnails i love so if you want to learn it's pearl invite.com

00:06:20.240 um the other thing i was going to tell you guys is that all super chats um i'm having a little

00:06:27.300 bit of a tech issue i'm getting a new laptop tomorrow when that is fixed things will be better

00:06:32.380 um but be a little patient with the super chats um especially when we're going doing a back and

00:06:38.260 forth and we have a guest on um it may wait till the end of the back and forth the debate i don't

00:06:43.580 really want to, you know, the other thing is I ask that you guys are respectful. You know, I know

00:06:50.640 you guys love roasting the guests, but sometimes it makes it a little bit awkward for me. And I

00:06:58.440 don't, if you have an attacker argument, not her, you know what I mean? It's just, please, we want

00:07:05.280 people to, to come back and enjoy this. So, okay. So today, um, I invited Tilly on to have a

00:07:13.140 conversation. Okay. So this is a girl who is a self-proclaimed feminist. She went to Cambridge

00:07:19.520 and she debated Charlie Kirk. So I thought, I thought it'd be fun. We could have her on.

00:07:25.480 Um, we're going to react to a little bit of her debate with Charlie Kirk.

00:07:29.640 so we're gonna watch this and then we're gonna bring her up so feel free to like the video

00:07:38.280 subscribe but yeah you know especially when i disagree with them if if she and you know what

00:07:44.500 i'll say it like this if the girl if they're disrespectful first fine it's gloves off but

00:07:50.420 we're gonna we try to go into these things in like good faith you know and so if they're not

00:07:55.960 being rude there's no reason for you guys to roast do you know what i mean like you we can

00:08:00.200 i know i know i know i know all right we're gonna watch

00:08:04.480 so i'm a feminist um my question uh is about the role of women though what should women's

00:08:15.680 role in public and private life look like and what are the material benefits of that

00:08:19.120 well thank you uh for that can can i take it i don't even want i just don't even like i don't

00:08:24.580 like that question should i'm not the pro i don't get to pick like what is this like make a wish

00:08:32.620 do you know what i mean it's like should i i i can't make you know it's what is it now

00:08:41.140 it's detour but anyways like the video i'd like to get over it would be cool to get a thousand

00:08:46.400 like our viewers for when she gets on so you know like it let's get this amped up people

00:08:52.020 You both agree on what a woman is?

00:08:54.020 Yes, an adult human female, it's a biological state of being that is also socially experienced.

00:08:58.720 Can I please elucidate just one example of that social experience?

00:09:01.720 Yeah, I was going to answer your question, but sure, go ahead.

00:09:03.720 Okay, so let's say you're a member of a tribe, and in that tribe, you have the biological female anatomy,

00:09:10.020 and in order to become a woman in that tribe, you have to also get a tattoo.

00:09:13.020 That's a social experience that's mapped onto biological reality.

00:09:16.020 So can a woman have a prostate?

00:09:18.020 can a woman have a prostate biologically speaking a woman is an adult human female that has a

00:09:23.880 biological reality but it's also social experience right so i like i don't it's super easy like can

00:09:29.580 a woman have a prostate so as per my definition of woman i would say that people who have a

00:09:34.360 prostate are biologically male but they can sometimes be socially treated as women okay got

00:09:39.300 it so so so so when so they can like pretend to be okay all right prostates got it okay um

00:09:47.660 All right. Doug MPA keeps putting in the chat. She has her phone. It doesn't count. Okay.

00:09:53.020 All right. All right. So you're a feminist that actually isn't just fighting for women. You're

00:09:57.980 also fighting for men. So yes. Yeah. Men also experience harms from patriarchy, but I argue-

00:10:04.100 We're talking about the same feminism though. Just make sure. Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

00:10:06.220 So men also experience harm from the patriarchal domination, but I would argue that those harms-

00:10:10.580 I like that she's got an American flag.

00:10:15.780 USA, USA, even the Brits love us.

00:10:19.300 You know what I mean?

00:10:21.140 From that system of domination itself.

00:10:22.920 In the same way, for example, this isn't a threat,

00:10:24.800 but if I reached across and punched you in the face,

00:10:26.640 then my hand might hurt, right?

00:10:28.600 So are we understanding that there are patterns of power?

00:10:31.420 So I would also fight for the rights of men as a feminist,

00:10:34.540 just as I would fight for the rights of women.

00:10:35.760 Sure.

00:10:36.740 Do you think women are happier than they were 40 years ago?

00:10:39.000 I think I would have a few responses to that I think that women report more

00:10:44.760 stress and dissatisfaction today because not because they have more rights or

00:10:48.900 because of feminism but because they're under dual pressure to both excel

00:10:51.860 professionally and also because of the domestic labor in homes that is

00:10:55.960 structured around outdated expectations so for example studies like the OECD's

00:10:59.880 better life index show that women's life expectancy education levels

00:11:03.880 professional achievements have risen in countries with higher gender inequality

00:11:06.300 So I would argue that what you're calling unhappiness is actually visibility, because now we hear women expressing dissatisfaction, whereas in the 50s, we prescribed them Valium and we lobotomized.

00:11:17.120 Yeah, so I actually did agree with her here.

00:11:22.380 Women are just complainers.

00:11:24.640 OK, women love to complain.

00:11:27.640 They love it.

00:11:28.680 so I don't really I don't think women I how do I put it women in the 50s probably also complained

00:11:37.140 but they didn't have social media now we can hear it thank god you know what I mean it's like

00:11:44.000 but I'm not gonna I don't I don't like studies on happiness anyway because it's very subjective

00:11:52.540 So it's just not. Yeah, so it's just not. I think you're a happy person or you're not the happy people.

00:12:04.340 They just tend to get married. But I don't I don't ascribe, you know, one to the other.

00:12:16.180 That's that's really rich. I didn't know women not to complain 50 years ago.

00:12:21.360 that's funny um so i know hold on a second i know we love complaining that's the comment

00:12:27.500 suicide rates going up more for women i think that encouraging complaining materially women

00:12:34.180 are killing themselves more why is that i think that even if both men both men and women have

00:12:39.200 become unhappier men's suicide rates have risen as well and that's also been exponential can you

00:12:43.220 at least concede that feminism offers only one potential explanation there could be also other

00:12:47.340 Of course, obviously, but feminism is the glaring thing in front of us where we have

00:12:52.000 fertility rates down, we have marriage rates down, we have unhappiness up.

00:12:56.120 Doug, blah, blah, blah, read off my phone.

00:12:58.140 I get it.

00:12:58.720 You don't like the phones, all right?

00:13:00.440 All right, I get it.

00:13:01.480 It's something in the 1960s out of the universities of Bredi Friedan and Gloria Steinem and all

00:13:06.520 these feminists that basically said, you're trapped in a home, go get a job, freeze your

00:13:10.020 eggs, take birth control.

00:13:11.200 And all of a sudden, women are way unhappier than they were 40 years ago.

00:13:14.320 And I just have to ask the question, why is that?

00:13:16.940 is it working and maybe there are biological differences between men and women that we should

00:13:21.440 respect and that deep down a lot of women want to get married and have children and women do not

00:13:25.960 want to get married and have children i think the abortion rates prove that so i i don't know how

00:13:34.220 i don't know how people still think that we should applaud it and we should support it and we should

00:13:39.620 say it means nothing if you're gonna be a ceo of some shoe company or be some banker in london

00:13:44.180 What matters if you raise children and you have something to pass down long after you're gone?

00:13:48.840 I think I would bring two points to that.

00:13:50.200 The first one is just really simple, which is that you can ascribe liberalism all you want as the cause of the unhappiness.

00:13:54.780 I would argue something else.

00:13:55.840 I would say that it's certain economic policy that has very little to do with the social acceptance of alternative lifestyles.

00:14:00.720 I would say that we can recognize that income inequality across a vast swathe of Western countries has increased,

00:14:05.080 which causes all kinds of social ills, a lack of social cohesion, housing price growth doesn't correspond with wage growth.

00:14:10.220 monopolies increasingly become kind of emboldened to interfere with politics and monopolies don't

00:14:14.840 prioritize social health either i think that those offer more compelling reasons for a decline in

00:14:18.800 happiness than an increase in freedoms because just one more thing on an intuitive basis generally

00:14:23.060 speaking people want more freedom not less okay so if that's true why is it do you agree that the

00:14:28.340 happiest women in the west are married with kids i don't sorry i think that the base is just

00:14:37.300 unhappiness with women we just love to complain so i think we'll go from like complaining to more

00:14:44.860 complaining to just like complaining you know um i would have to look into it but i think there are

00:14:50.200 certain there are certain objectively we know that right the women with kids are not the ones

00:14:53.640 tearing down statues right they're they're the ones that actually have obligations tearing down

00:14:57.180 statues correspond to some kind of smiles per capita data set that i wasn't aware of again it's

00:15:01.200 like it's a little bit of a one-liner but the happy and the grateful the happy and the grateful

00:15:07.920 usually don't go yeah okay all right you guys get the idea is that enough do we still need are we

00:15:15.040 do we get an idea we can we can watch like one more minute on wendy then i'm gonna bring her up

00:15:20.460 because all right in their spare time of which we saw in our country all throughout a single summer

00:15:25.320 but as a side note you would agree objectively study after study survey after survey that the

00:15:30.200 Women of the West that are married and have children, especially a lot of children, are four happier than even the ones that earn more money correlated at the same age.

00:15:37.220 So I also don't think that happiness is a very good metric, and neither do you, because you think gay people shouldn't just pursue happiness by being gay.

00:15:42.720 They have other moralistic considerations to be making.

00:15:44.840 So I don't think smiles per capita is a particularly convincing way to measure whether or not we should encourage women to be autonomous.

00:15:51.020 I think we should maximize agency within a fair system that has reasonable parameters because it's expedient.

00:15:56.580 Now she's reading off a script again.

00:16:00.200 All right, let's bring her up. So I brought her up. Let me see. Let's bring her up. Give me one second. I have the topics up here. Can you guys tell me when she's on the line? The challenge is now, I don't, you'd have to see my tech issues. It'll be changed soon, but you'll have to bear with me for the time being.

00:16:23.660 lobby just yet to unmute i'll let you know when okay all right well i guess do you want to like

00:16:31.600 text me we can just watch it till she comes up is she ready or no yeah i'll shoot you a text i've

00:16:37.480 been reaching out okay all right maybe she fell asleep or something it's early there

00:16:43.300 i think she's in britain right is there it's late there logical it's the moral thing because if we

00:16:48.740 can't prove the material harms we shouldn't discourage it and also self-reported studies

00:16:52.520 is a really flawed way to do psychology it's the week before my university exams

00:16:55.880 right now and i'm standing here explaining the basic basic methodology because behind

00:16:59.800 survey collection in sociology which you don't even think is a real subject to charlie kirk

00:17:04.080 if i took one of those surveys right now i check extremely miserable but so would a palestinian

00:17:08.260 child who's been taunted smithereens how are we going to say extremely miserable i just don't

00:17:13.260 do you see what i mean this is she's kind of proven my point if she would check extremely

00:17:19.560 miserable living in like the west you know what i mean like one of the best universities in the

00:17:24.020 world and we still find a way to check miserable do you know what i mean it's like it's our base

00:17:30.260 um all right we don't need to roast me on the technology okay i saw someone i saw somebody say

00:17:37.480 in the chat they're like pearl your intro's too long well why don't you start a youtube show

00:17:43.440 and make your own intro okay and you can have a short intro i'll give you that all right

00:17:48.520 i love you guys i love you guys but sometimes i gotta get i gotta i gotta give it back to you

00:17:54.780 you know what i mean no i'm kind of making a joke no i mean but seriously like as a but hold on i

00:18:00.700 mean like that's an important point though is that the women in the west have it the best

00:18:04.780 in the world and yet they're way unhappier than women of sub-saharan africa there's something

00:18:09.560 fundamentally wrong here see i don't think charlie kirk's no knows what he's talking about

00:18:14.600 i don't know the women in africa they're kind of doing the same thing i i was in london i

00:18:19.520 interviewed a lot of the people from these countries there a lot of a lot of the women

00:18:24.300 in these countries they're maybe 10 years behind but it's the westernization is coming

00:18:30.720 women of sub-saharan africa have something that a lot of women in the west do not have

00:18:34.580 the women in the west have cats and they have good jobs and the women of sub-saharan africa

00:18:39.340 they have a belief in the divine and they have kids and maybe there's a biological under yeah

00:18:43.880 I don't agree.

00:18:44.660 You know, I think an unhappy person is just going to be an unhappy person with a kid.

00:18:48.920 Because how many of you guys had crazy mothers?

00:18:51.540 Put a one in the chat if you had a crazy mother who was not happy and then she had you and she was still unhappy.

00:19:01.380 I do go live every night.

00:19:03.100 It's called putting in the work, okay?

00:19:06.400 Putting in the work.

00:19:08.300 That is keeping a lot of women from realizing their full potential.

00:19:13.040 and so without reading your phone and just like you know connecting i'm not really reading my

00:19:17.220 phone well you it's fine for sure then you can answer that was a gaslight tilly what do you mean

00:19:22.480 you're not reading your phone fair enough would you agree that it's a good thing that more women

00:19:27.480 get married and have children in the west i would ask you would you say that a sub-saharan african

00:19:31.820 woman who's experienced female genital mutilation and checks extremely happy in a survey and i also

00:19:36.620 would check extremely happy in a survey who do you think would be objectively more happy even if

00:19:40.160 they both check the same answer no again so i fully if you want to talk about how islam mistreats

00:19:44.640 women we could talk all day long like i'm all for that me too okay good so we agree that we actually

00:19:49.260 my mother literally said to me not mine but in the chat someone said when i was a little kid

00:19:55.120 by the time you were born we'd given up on raising kids do you know what like mothers just like say

00:20:05.500 things. Do you know what I mean? It's like, you're like, you're like, that doesn't really make, okay.

00:20:15.520 Um, how can we learn about creating a YouTube channel? Go to the audacity network.com and sign

00:20:20.680 up Tuesdays. We go live. And so if you really, it's a great, it's a great spend because

00:20:28.600 you can ask me directly about your channel so we go live every Tuesday after the show we'll

00:20:37.180 on the show an hour early and then you can be like oh my gosh my channel isn't growing and I

00:20:43.120 can tell you why your channel sucks in a nice way I'll be nice about it but um maybe you're

00:20:49.620 not entertaining and you got to work on that maybe it's your thumbnails maybe it's your titles but I

00:20:55.000 i can go through it with you and i can save you a lot of time so i would sign up we should shut

00:21:00.180 off muslim immigration to the uk right we totally agree i think that all religious fundamentalism

00:21:03.980 is bad and if you take that logic oh my gosh can we please shut off muslim immigration to the uk

00:21:08.560 i lived in the uk for three years and i you know nothing against the muslims they were they're

00:21:14.960 nice people but i did not living i did not like living by you guys i didn't i did not

00:21:22.420 i don't think i've heard oxford is nice i didn't spend a lot of time there but

00:21:27.640 where i lived it was not the night yeah they're not allowed evangelical christians okay hold on

00:21:33.520 hold on a second hold on that's funny hold on can i tell you why my channel sucks i did actually

00:21:38.860 last last session i i ripped apart some of the thumbnails i'll even go through my videos and

00:21:45.500 why I didn't, I don't think they performed. Right. So I'm going to wear a hijab every Tuesday. Are

00:21:52.880 you guys insane? I'm sorry to cut you off. Tilly is on. Um, Tilly, if you could just unmute,

00:21:58.740 then we'll be good to go. Everybody can hear me. I can hear you. How's it going, Tilly?

00:22:06.480 It's going great. Thank you for having me on. Um, it's really interesting that you agreed with

00:22:10.420 some of the things that I said in the debate, even though we're ideologically probably super

00:22:13.640 proposed, right? Well, I don't know. I don't know too much about you other than this debate.

00:22:18.820 So you probably have seen some of my stuff, but I don't, I don't know how long you've been doing

00:22:23.540 this, but yeah. Yeah. Um, it's been a couple. Um, so you're at Oxford now. What time is it there?

00:22:30.960 It's late, isn't it? Oh, um, well I go to Cambridge university, uh, but yeah, it's pretty late here.

00:22:36.220 It's, uh, one 23 in the morning. I have like this huge Pepsi to keep me awake. Okay. Well,

00:22:43.000 I'm glad you made it. Thanks so much for coming. Um, so what, what got you into debates? Like

00:22:48.780 what are you on the debate team there or what, what's your, like, what's your background?

00:22:53.820 Um, I started debating when I was about 17. Um, and I ended up as a reserve for the national

00:23:00.180 English team. Um, and from there I've debated kind of mostly informally. I haven't taken

00:23:06.340 debate too seriously. And then when I debated Charlie Kirk, I, uh, yeah, I started taking

00:23:12.300 it a little bit more, a little bit more seriously because that kind of blew up and I didn't

00:23:15.960 expect it to blow up to that extent.

00:23:17.980 Okay, cool.

00:23:18.440 Are you going to start a channel now or no?

00:23:21.120 Trying to start a YouTube channel, but I mean, you'll, you'll know your guy had to talk

00:23:26.160 me through how to even start this stream.

00:23:28.020 So it's going to be a slow process.

00:23:29.560 I'm terrible with tech.

00:23:30.700 Oh, I am too, actually.

00:23:32.400 So it's no big deal.

00:23:34.500 So can you give me a little overview of like your worldview?

00:23:37.440 So you're a feminist, you believe in marriage, you don't believe in marriage.

00:23:42.300 women are oppressed, men are oppressed. Can you give me like a spark note? Do you mind or no?

00:23:46.940 A spark note? Yeah, sure. I think when you sent me a few of those claims, I was quite interested

00:23:53.780 because to me, they felt a little bit ambiguous. So for example, when you sent me the claim of

00:24:00.140 asking me whether or not I believed in marriage, I was thinking, well, sure, I believe that marriage

00:24:05.980 makes men happier, according to statistics. As we both kind of agree, the self-reported studies are

00:24:11.340 a little bit flawed. But if we were to use self-reported studies, if we were to use that

00:24:16.060 metric, marriage does make men happier. I also think that marriage as a contract between a virgin

00:24:21.420 and a rich guy is a little bit antiquated. In the same way that, for example, people getting

00:24:26.880 married as a political alliance or out of obligation to people's family, I think those

00:24:30.780 things are a little bit antiquated as well. I think that in terms of if we want to think about

00:24:35.440 who's more oppressed, men or women, I think that it's potentially a slight distraction from other

00:24:40.520 issues for example i think that poor people are all oppressed i would never want to minimize like

00:24:45.000 men's issues when it comes to being poor but i think that overall there are certain facts about

00:24:50.120 being a woman that make it more difficult for us um existing in society i would say

00:24:56.600 so i guess we can kind of delve deeper into it i didn't necessarily prefer like the summary of my

00:25:01.640 world view but i think that's that's all right i mean i'm just i'm just trying to have a conversation

00:25:06.280 with you. This isn't like a gotcha type thing. I'm just trying to have a conversation. So it kind of

00:25:11.560 would help me to understand your worldview a little bit. When you come to conclusions about

00:25:16.660 what you believe, do you go to studies first or what you see in the world? What comes first?

00:25:23.100 I mean, that's actually a really good question. I appreciate that question.

00:25:26.900 I think that it's silly to rely solely on either metric. If I solely said, well, based on my

00:25:33.160 personal experiences i believe this thing then i would have all kinds of incorrect beliefs right

00:25:39.240 because i have personal experiences that don't match up with what lots of other people's personal

00:25:43.080 experiences might be so i'm not going to solely rely on them but at the same time i'm not going

00:25:46.440 to completely cast them aside because for example as as a woman who's experienced being a woman i'm

00:25:51.960 not going to completely cast aside my anecdotal experiences there at the same you know i also

00:25:57.240 think that studies are really important but it depends who's conducted the study that's the

00:26:00.920 the methodology behind the study. I mean, I'm a studies fan. I'm a bit of a nerd about that. I

00:26:06.000 mean, part of my political science degree concerns like methodology surrounding studies. So.

00:26:12.020 Okay. So what comes first? If the study conflicts with your personal experience,

00:26:17.580 what do you pick? I think I'm always open to being wrong. I think that most important thing

00:26:23.160 is that you can falsify any claim. Yeah. Okay. So. Okay. Cause me personally,

00:26:28.580 I go with what I can see in the world first. I do like studies, but, um, I think the longer

00:26:35.680 you're in this industry, you see a lot of people funding them have agendas. Would you agree with

00:26:39.720 that? Um, to some extent. Yeah. Okay. I think for example, you have think tanks. I mean,

00:26:46.340 organizations like turning point USA that want to promote traditional values or disseminate

00:26:50.120 certain conservative ideas across college campuses. When they come out with a study

00:26:53.640 about how actually the evils of about like the evils of birth control, I might take a little

00:26:58.400 pause and question it there in the same way as if you have this super liberal institution

00:27:01.920 that says something about how some people are like ultra perfect and ultra happy like all the time

00:27:08.000 and that feminism can do no wrong and that all women are like saints obviously i'm going to call

00:27:12.960 that into question but i think that's a little bit less i think that's a little bit less likely but

00:27:16.480 i'm sure that you might disagree with that okay so why don't we tackle marriage first and we can

00:27:21.840 kind of go back and forth about where we agree where we disagree um and then cool okay so you

00:27:28.320 believe in marriage or you don't believe in marriage can i just qualify that question and

00:27:33.280 ask what you mean i don't want to pull a jordan peterson but like what do you mean okay what do

00:27:36.960 you think is the purpose of marriage um good question i think the purpose of marriage is some

00:27:42.640 kind of kind of partnership where both of you are a team and in the process of becoming a team you

00:27:48.400 have certain legal protections enforced okay cool what do you think a woman gets out of marriage

00:27:55.280 i think i mean it kind of depends on all kinds of factors right like i believe that marriage is

00:28:02.080 something that is like super intrasubjective because it concerns relationships like we can

00:28:06.240 make broad sweeping statements about what it means for a woman to be married what it means for a man

00:28:11.280 to be married i think women can get quite a lot from marriage i think generally speaking though

00:28:16.800 men tend to get a bit more and the evidence that i have for that is that married men according to

00:28:21.920 the cdc they live about eight to 17 percent longer than unmarried men and also and you wait wait and

00:28:28.880 you would trip and you attribute that to marriage i think there are probably confounding factors

00:28:34.000 like financial stability that comes from marriage but it's also true that we work together and have

00:28:38.880 a relationship and get married let's go with what you see in the real world like you're in college

00:28:43.120 you see your friends who they go for, right?

00:28:45.720 Who they're interested in maybe marrying someday,

00:28:48.440 dating or selecting for romantic relationships.

00:28:51.780 Wouldn't you say that they select guys that are in shape?

00:28:55.480 Like just in general,

00:28:57.420 like the in shape guy is going to get more dates

00:29:00.840 than the 300 pound guy.

00:29:03.020 Do you think a 300 pound woman

00:29:04.520 is probably going to have the same experience

00:29:06.140 on the dating market?

00:29:07.040 I agree.

00:29:07.520 But so for me,

00:29:10.780 i wouldn't really attribute men living longer to marriage i think fit men are chosen and i think a

00:29:15.900 lot of times like the conservative and i'm actually gonna go at the conservatives i think a lot of

00:29:20.380 times they're trying to sell marriage and so they attribute everything good about a person to

00:29:25.420 marriage would you agree disagree um what do you mean by that so like they'll say that someone's

00:29:33.500 happier because they're married but happy people are selected for marriage who wants to who wants

00:29:38.300 to marry a downer right they'll say that people live longer because they're married and i i think

00:29:45.340 it's because they're fit people pick fit people that makes more sense to me yeah i mean i i don't

00:29:51.900 think we can necessarily measure this in the way that you think just because intuitively when i

00:29:55.340 think about this when i think about the united states correct me if i'm wrong but the obesity

00:29:59.340 rate is extremely high in the united states something like one in three people are obese

00:30:03.820 So I don't think, and that would imply to me that most obese people are not being chosen,

00:30:09.880 but that would also mean that like one third of obese people, one third of people in the

00:30:14.160 United States are like not getting married on the basis of the fact that they're fat.

00:30:16.820 Well, the thing is women pull the fat plug after they get married.

00:30:21.420 So on average women, on average women gain 25 pounds in the first five years of marriage,

00:30:30.440 which maybe at one point pregnant and the average weight that you gain when you're pregnant is like

00:30:36.180 22 pounds or something like that yeah but i just reject that you have to i mean my grandma had nine

00:30:41.300 kids gain weight when you're pregnant well you can lose it after so yeah so i mean my mom ran

00:30:48.760 a marathon six months pregnant she had like 10 of us so it also kind of depends on how your

00:30:53.540 pregnancy goes right like i know people who've had emergency c-sections where they've been in

00:30:58.940 emergency situation where their child might pass away so what's happened is they've been put under

00:31:03.900 anesthetic and that baby's been removed from them very quickly there's not that much room for

00:31:09.580 precision in the surgical process that kind of thing and the recovery process is much longer so

00:31:14.220 it would take like more like three years for that woman to lose weight after that i understand i

00:31:20.940 just try people i just don't like excuses i don't like it it's not really an excuse it is it's just

00:31:26.940 what happens right like if women get an emergency surgery where they're cut open across their entire

00:31:31.900 stomach area then the chances are it's going to take longer for them to gain weight than a woman

00:31:34.620 who's had a natural birth with no confidence like i don't think there's any nuance i i think

00:31:40.380 if you you got to eat less and that's it and i used to be pretty overweight so i can say that

00:31:44.940 firsthand yeah but have you been pregnant no but i know people that have and they got thin after

00:31:52.780 i know people with really bad pregnancies so i just i don't think it's an excuse my point is that

00:31:57.900 it takes longer for people to lose baby weight if they have a traumatic birth and that's not an

00:32:03.260 excuse that's just a fact well it can yeah but i would still say that's an excuse

00:32:10.460 okay why because there's people that don't they like there's people that let things like that

00:32:17.260 make excuses and there's people that don't and just lose the weight and eat less it's not an

00:32:22.140 an excuse if some people aren't necessarily doing that thing i think that's not what qualifies an

00:32:25.800 excuse an excuse is like an unrelated reason as to why something happens i think there's a direct

00:32:30.900 correlation or a causal link between women taking longer to like gain weight to lose weight sorry

00:32:36.720 after having a traumatic birth i think i would i would just say put the donut down that's it

00:32:42.580 so okay are you like seeing that this sounds insane or not really that you eat less and lose

00:32:50.500 weight no no obviously to lose weight you eat less okay but also you also have to move more

00:32:56.660 and it's really difficult to move more if you've had an emergency c-section you've been in your

00:33:00.680 bed bound for like six to seven months 1200 calories you'll still lose weight most people

00:33:06.520 okay but i want to slow process and also i want to i want to go but i want to go back to because

00:33:14.520 we're just going to go back and forth you think it's okay for them to stay fat i don't so it's

00:33:19.060 fine. All right. So what, what do you women get out of marriage? Well, I don't, if you answered

00:33:25.380 the question, I can't remember what you said. So forgive me if you did, if you can maybe make in a

00:33:30.180 few sentences, what do they get out of it? Um, I think that both men and women get benefits from

00:33:37.720 marriage and there are not, we'll go into men's, but I just want, when I ask you a question about

00:33:42.540 women, I want to stick to the women and then we can do men later. Are you asking me

00:33:48.020 in terms of benefits do you mean legal protections for example we could go legal protections um

00:33:55.460 anything that you think they get out of out of marriage it could be legal um it could be emotional

00:34:03.120 whatever whatever comes to your head yeah sure i mean the first thing that i'll qualify is i don't

00:34:08.660 think that marriage is necessarily be all and end all in terms of having a happy and fruitful family

00:34:13.120 but i do think that women who get married they do experience legal protections in society

00:34:17.760 and that those legal protections are probably a good thing when it concerns children.

00:34:21.700 So, for example, let's say two people just cohabit.

00:34:24.840 Like a man and a woman are in a relationship and they have a child, but on paper, they're single.

00:34:29.400 What that means is that a custody battle is going to be a lot more difficult for them

00:34:33.400 because they don't have the legal channels through which to navigate that.

00:34:36.260 And I think women are likely to suffer a little bit more in that regard,

00:34:40.400 just insofar as like you might agree with me on a bio-essentialist premise

00:34:44.800 that women are more nurturing and have more of an attachment to their child.

00:34:48.100 So you can even go with that.

00:34:49.200 I actually don't agree, but we could actually talk about it later

00:34:52.640 because I'll write down nurturing so I remember to go back

00:34:56.360 if you want to talk about it later.

00:34:57.000 So you don't think women are naturally more nurturing than men?

00:34:59.540 Oh, hell no.

00:35:00.400 But we can go back to it later.

00:35:01.980 So let's start with legal.

00:35:02.780 That's super interesting to me.

00:35:03.700 Oh, hell no.

00:35:05.300 But okay, let's start.

00:35:06.480 Legal protections, anything else?

00:35:08.300 Do women get out of marriage?

00:35:10.340 I mean, I'm not like an ultra proponent of marriage.

00:35:12.860 I just think it's a bit of a value-neutral thing.

00:35:16.300 And I think overall men are going to benefit a little bit more from marriage.

00:35:19.000 So how do men benefit from marriage?

00:35:22.260 Men tend to live longer.

00:35:24.720 And also something like, I think there was this U.S. survey,

00:35:28.540 and like we say, self-reporting studies are flawed, all that kind of stuff.

00:35:31.500 But at the same time, more married men report being very happy with life

00:35:35.320 compared to unmarried men.

00:35:38.880 So they're more likely to probably experience happiness in a marriage.

00:35:41.280 You can talk about correlation type of factors, but at the same time, I think we can both

00:35:45.340 agree that being in a long-term stable relationship probably leads to the fact that you feel a

00:35:50.220 little bit more happy about yourself and you feel a little bit more happy about the fact

00:35:53.240 that you're working in a team and that you're collaborating with someone to build something

00:35:57.640 really nice and beautiful, which is a wonderful relationship you have together.

00:36:00.720 So, I mean, we can start there.

00:36:02.900 So, you think men live longer and are happier because of being attached to a woman, essentially?

00:36:08.260 okay isn't that good i wouldn't i wouldn't necessarily on the fact that i wouldn't credit

00:36:13.720 women for it i would credit uh partnership for it i don't think that i'm not that person who's

00:36:18.560 going to say yeah like it's all down to women when men are that happy i think there are loads

00:36:23.440 more factors than just their relationships um that make someone happy i would never deny that

00:36:27.900 but what i would say is in a partnership in a loving partnership in a long-term partnership

00:36:33.640 that is happy and mutual and reciprocal where you share burdens like on an egalitarian basis

00:36:38.760 and you're probably going to be happy so maybe the question is is it the case that marriage makes

00:36:43.060 people happy or is it the case that good marriage makes people happy you know i'm not i'm not one

00:36:47.220 of those people who has particularly strong views about marriage that's that's fine um i i would say

00:36:53.580 that happiness is a skill and i i don't i think that's it's your own problem to make yourself

00:37:00.080 happy and a lot of people go into a relationship and try to make it somebody else's problem

00:37:05.400 i think that happy people are selected for relationships have you ever met somebody

00:37:11.560 that's super negative who wants to date them right i mean who who wants i think it's also

00:37:16.640 the case that like minds attract one another so often you're probably not going to have someone

00:37:21.220 who's super happy all the time date someone who's a downer but you do have people date each other

00:37:25.800 who are both downers and kind of both have this horrible life together.

00:37:29.040 So my opinion would be that marriage is a bad deal for men

00:37:32.700 because men are expected to give their emotional, their physical,

00:37:36.420 their money to women, and they get nothing in return.

00:37:40.140 When they do get married, they tend to get,

00:37:42.680 I'm going to tell you my opinion, then you can go, okay?

00:37:45.520 And then they get a woman who nags.

00:37:47.880 On average, she gains 25 pounds.

00:37:50.340 She'll leave them half the time.

00:37:52.660 So I would say, why should a man get married?

00:37:55.800 Um, and don't, if you give me an answer, please, I would prefer it not be something like happiness

00:38:03.700 or, um, living longer that we can't really prove came from the marriage itself.

00:38:10.160 Go ahead.

00:38:12.000 Sure.

00:38:12.580 I think it's, it's an interesting claim because there are so many factors that kind of go

00:38:16.840 outside of this.

00:38:18.060 Like, is it the issue that it's to do with getting married or is it that men are in a

00:38:21.720 relationship with women?

00:38:22.440 Because what I'm hearing is you can probably ascribe all of the issues that you ascribe

00:38:25.680 to being married to also just a man being in a long-term relationship with a woman so is it the

00:38:29.940 marriage that qualifies it as something that's a miserable deal for men or is it a relationship

00:38:33.260 with a woman and insofar as it's just a relationship with a woman are you advocating that men stop

00:38:37.740 being in relationships with them okay so i don't tell men what to do but the the challenge you get

00:38:45.260 with marriage is women get the legal protections and what happens when women get legal protections

00:38:51.760 is they just tend to not be too great with it.

00:38:54.620 They automatically then have the leverage

00:38:57.100 in the relationship.

00:38:58.920 And there are some ways

00:39:00.800 that men are really not protected legally.

00:39:03.160 Like for example, in California,

00:39:04.640 if a man signs the birth certificate

00:39:07.080 and the kid, he finds out at the age of five

00:39:11.000 that the kid isn't his,

00:39:12.060 which is a really sad experience for a guy.

00:39:14.160 I know men that have gone through that

00:39:15.720 where they thought the child was theirs

00:39:17.100 and it wasn't, right?

00:39:18.980 He still has to pay child support on it.

00:39:21.760 I think that's bullshit, right?

00:39:24.040 I know men that are paying alimony to women that are destroying their lives actively.

00:39:31.360 And so the challenge is, I'm going to finish and then I'm going to let you go, okay?

00:39:36.820 So the challenge is when you get into marriage, you're getting the state involved.

00:39:41.600 and a lot of women we can show the worst parts of ourselves when in romantic relationships I mean

00:39:52.480 we had for example pop songs talking about keying a guy's car you're younger than me so you might

00:39:58.240 not remember but there's like a Carrie Underwood song where she's literally I know there's a yeah

00:40:02.740 yeah and so you know female spite is real and now you are allowing the feeling that people have

00:40:11.020 how is that specific to women how is female spite how does that outweigh male spite

00:40:14.760 i can i can i can i can i can go into that later but i'm going to finish this thought

00:40:22.000 the difference is women can legally destroy men and um men don't have that up that option

00:40:30.680 generally, unless they get a specific type of judge, but just usually they're not going to

00:40:35.220 get custody of their kids. Um, they're not going to be able to put the woman on child sport. I would

00:40:39.920 say men tend to be benevolent with women and women are not benevolent the other way around.

00:40:45.300 Go ahead. So how many men are legally destroying women through things like alimony? If you have

00:40:51.220 to quantify it? Um, I don't know the exact number off the top of my head. Last I checked, it was

00:40:58.400 10% of, like, less than 10% of alimony payments around were from women to men.

00:41:07.940 Okay. So what the facts look like is that about 10 to 15% of any divorce in the U.S. involves

00:41:14.060 any kind of spousal support. So we're already talking about a minority of situations

00:41:17.760 where spousal support, including alimony and child support.

00:41:20.780 Right. But why would you put yourself at that risk? I think is my point. Like,

00:41:24.480 It's just an extra, even if it's 10%, you know, if there is a pill that's had a 10% chance of

00:41:31.700 killing me, I wouldn't take that pill. Do you know what I mean? I would not be like, I'm good.

00:41:36.500 Well, I could give you examples of, you know, men that have took the risk and it didn't really work

00:41:41.080 out for them. I mean, I'd rather not give me examples. I'd rather you quantify in some capacity.

00:41:46.860 Well, it's kind of sucks because I'm going to, so sorry. So I'll give you an example. There is a guy

00:41:53.460 in um in texas who he had his kid legally like transitioned against his will yeah that's not

00:42:01.760 quantifying it that's still an individual example so if you can quantify it so for example if i said

00:42:06.460 to you four this is this is fact 400 000 people in the u.s receive alimony oh that's quantified

00:42:12.380 actually i actually have done the numbers on that give me a second to pull it up it's in a different

00:42:16.540 google doc but i can no worries i can pull it up but here keep keep going and i'll listen to

00:42:21.440 your thoughts. Here's a case that I'll make. It's quite a simple one. 400,000 people in the US are

00:42:27.780 receiving alimony. About 3% of those people are men. That's a very low number. 40% of households

00:42:34.120 have female breadwinners. That suggests that basically, you're right. Hundreds of thousands

00:42:39.400 of men can get alimony, but they don't receive it. If I said to you, I don't have a six pack,

00:42:45.180 And then you asked me, do you work out? And I said, no. Am I being oppressed or do I just

00:42:52.060 organically not have a six pack? What I would say is that rights in liberal societies have to be

00:42:58.360 like asserted to be realized. And courts are not mind readers. Just like a job you don't apply for

00:43:02.700 is not going to be offered to you. A legal benefit you don't request is not going to be awarded.

00:43:06.380 It's not going to be awarded to you. So what I would say is like, if a man is not asking for

00:43:10.280 alimony and fighting for alimony. Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. But that, that goes back to my

00:43:16.180 point that men are benevolent. So when they get leveraged, they don't tend to ruin their lot,

00:43:20.560 their wives lives. So yeah, it's more so the case that they would feel emasculated by

00:43:24.860 out of a hundred, out of a hundred, yeah. So out of a hundred married marriages, um,

00:43:31.800 let's see 50 stay married so um 50 divorce 15 of those divorces are obscenely malicious on the part

00:43:41.020 of the wife towards the husband child alienation financial ruin otherwise known as a punitive

00:43:46.040 divorce 27.5 of those of is that the man pays woman a lot of money when she can support herself

00:43:52.520 and get moderately frequent contact with the kids still tough but not malicious so that's out of 100

00:43:58.800 divorces that's going to be that's 100 divorces no out of like that's if there's 100 divorces

00:44:05.820 that's like the percentage so 15 out of 100 are going to be obscenely malicious meaning so the

00:44:12.740 meaning the guy can't see his kids or he's going to be fighting for custody 27.5 is that the man

00:44:18.680 it doesn't necessarily mean something's obscenely malicious or all its kinds of reasons that's why

00:44:24.280 someone might fight for custody like have to fight for custody or why why someone might reasonably

00:44:29.020 think that they don't want someone to have custody over their children right but do you really have

00:44:34.440 such a negative opinion of men that you think 15 out of 100 don't deserve to see their kids

00:44:39.800 is that like your is that your opinion of men like that negative no but i think that in family

00:44:44.160 courts when men do fight for custody they win 60 percent of the time so where's the bias okay so

00:44:49.120 the reason do you know why that is like why men don't fight for custody um because oftentimes

00:44:54.740 there's not really enough evidence for them to make a compelling case in order to fight

00:44:57.960 but see the challenge the challenge i'm getting is i know you're about to spew a bunch of stuff

00:45:06.640 and i know you don't know what you're talking and i don't mean this to be rude but you just

00:45:10.360 haven't done the interviews and you haven't like i i would really be surprised i don't think that

00:45:15.840 doing an interview makes me more qualified. I can interview any random guy off the street. I don't

00:45:21.520 think it makes me more or less qualified. I think what makes me qualified is the fact that I've done

00:45:24.780 the research and that's a small significant sample size. How much does it cost for a guy

00:45:33.920 to fight for custody of his kids? Legal fees are expensive for everybody. It costs a lot for a

00:45:39.420 woman to fight for custody too. Okay but when I'm going to start with the men and then we can talk

00:45:43.560 about the women later. It's, it's tough to have a conversation when, you know, you're trying to

00:45:48.280 make a point and we're always going to bring it back to the, like, bring it back to the other

00:45:52.500 gender. Right. But for men, what is the, what is, what is, what is the average? People coexist in

00:45:58.180 society. You can't like isolate a group of people. What is the average amount that you said you did

00:46:05.880 the research? So do you know the answer to this question? How much does it cost to fight for

00:46:09.620 custody? I don't know. Okay. So you haven't, and that's fine. I'm not, I'm, this isn't a gotcha.

00:46:18.240 Okay. So it's, it's about, it's about, it's about $30,000 a year or $30,000 to fight for custody.

00:46:26.900 And the challenge you get is a lot of these men get really screwed. A lot of, a lot of, a lot of

00:46:35.580 these men are screwed because they're working average jobs. And so a lot of the men that get

00:46:41.380 screwed are blue collar men. Um, and so these are guys that make 35,000, 45,000, $55,000 a year.

00:46:49.820 And, um, a lot of times the women will empty the bank accounts first and they're kicked out of

00:46:54.720 their house. And so they don't have, they don't have, they don't have, they don't have the money

00:47:00.260 to fight for custody. And a lot of lawyers will tell them not to even fight because

00:47:06.680 the court process is going to take so many years and they just don't have the money.

00:47:15.260 What I would ask you is a really simple question, which is, are legal fees

00:47:19.580 solely exclusive to one gender? No, but the challenge is you have women's shelters that have,

00:47:26.640 um, they have programs that pay for women. So if you go, if you look up like men's shelters,

00:47:34.740 I know, I know, I know, but the mutual custody over their children with,

00:47:41.020 I under, I under, I under, so I do understand where you're coming from, right? I understand,

00:47:46.300 um, that that's what you would think that if a woman's going to an abused shelter,

00:47:52.480 right that something bad happened um but the challenge is when men are abused there's no

00:47:59.260 shelters for them to go to it's like one because none of us is likely to be abused by women that's

00:48:04.100 actually not true that's that's not true so it the if you look at most abusive cases they're

00:48:11.580 beating each other it's just like we said earlier people with similar traits they kind of find each

00:48:16.780 other right you agree with that so most of the time when people that doesn't necessarily mean

00:48:21.120 that people who are abusers flock towards one another people with similar traits might flock

00:48:25.520 to one another but people who want to well want to beat the out of their partner or not it's

00:48:28.800 oftentimes the opposite well so i i spoke to them so i i but here here's what i i know you don't know

00:48:35.040 and so i spoke to aaron pizzi and she started she started aaron aaron aaron pizzi aaron pizzi

00:48:43.600 Erin Pizzi, she founded the first men's shelter in London. And she also ran a bunch of women's

00:48:50.900 shelters. She's an expert when it comes to domestic abuse. And from her, from her, you

00:48:56.280 could look her up, right? From her mouth, most abusive people, they just find each other.

00:49:02.440 So, okay. From Karen's mouth. Well, if it's from Karen's mouth, I mean, what are we to say?

00:49:06.740 So, you know, so the most abuse, most abuse, look, I'm allowing you to come on my show.

00:49:17.480 Look, I'm going to let you go, but you got to let me finish.

00:49:21.040 OK, most most abuse is mutual when it comes to one sided abuse.

00:49:26.840 Women are more violent than men when it comes.

00:49:29.440 when it comes when it comes to abusing infants and the elderly uh women by and large take that

00:49:37.900 stat that's not true stepfathers are the like most likely person to be right and which one

00:49:43.140 and the woman brought the stepdad into the life so when a man's abusing when a man's abusing her

00:49:49.000 kid yes that is your fault if you brought it either way it's a woman's fault no if um not if

00:49:54.820 it's if it's you are responsible for who you let into your kids lives it is many women are

00:50:02.440 irresponsible that women never bear any responsibility for things what i'm saying is

00:50:06.560 you just told me that women overwhelmingly abuse men i just told you well statistically that's not

00:50:12.800 true men overwhelmingly abuse women including stepfathers abusing kids it's not the case

00:50:16.900 that overwhelmingly it's mothers abusing kids often the most likely predictive factor when it

00:50:21.380 comes to abuse in childhood is having a step-parent specifically a stepfather so sure you can say

00:50:26.560 there's some onus on that person for bringing that it's about it's about it's about the onus

00:50:31.340 is on the person who's abusing them right it's about 50 50 when it's just abuse but if it's just

00:50:36.480 the biological parents then it's overwhelmingly the mother because 75 75 75 of abuse towards

00:50:47.120 children and the elderly are women you can look it up that is just not true absolutely true

00:50:52.640 how many men compared to women sexually abuse children

00:50:57.340 how many men say that again how many men compared to women sexually abuse children

00:51:05.880 um i'd off the top of my head i don't know it's more men than women okay so it's again that's

00:51:15.020 one example that I know off the top of my head without looking anything up and without making

00:51:19.320 something up without pulling it out of my ass right like that's something that I actually

00:51:22.760 understand okay so that's one way in which I'm disproving it okay well I don't think you

00:51:30.860 disproved it but I'll let the audience decide you told me that okay that's fine that women

00:51:35.800 overwhelmingly abuse their kids I said well men overwhelmingly sexually abuse their kids

00:51:40.200 women so even in the best case scenario this is an equalized situation well i mean you could take

00:51:45.640 murder for example and i'm not talking about abort i know the conservatives like if you look

00:51:50.440 at infanticize infanticide um it's overwhelmingly women the police don't even look for a guy

00:51:57.800 because like they're set that is like um because it's almost always the mother

00:52:03.400 can i am i allowed to look this up yeah go ahead google infanticide because i i i attained a bunch

00:52:12.340 of criticism for ostensibly looking things up oh i don't i don't mind if you look things up i just

00:52:18.620 i like to have a conversation not um read an essay i know it's a different format the other

00:52:26.540 one so i'm not holding it against you okay this is interesting so infanticide i'm pulling it up too

00:52:35.260 intentionally killing an infant oh wait mothers man or woman

00:52:48.380 so

00:52:56.540 okay so this is like a best case scenario where we can make this such that it's an equal amount

00:53:06.400 of abuse that is going on because let's say we have a higher likelihood for example like

00:53:10.240 a mother is more like to be involved in a father so if a mother is in like if there's higher

00:53:14.700 proximity of mothers around a kid more often then obviously there's going to be a higher

00:53:20.120 rate of like murder because i don't think that men and women are intrinsically incredibly

00:53:23.700 different enough i think there are psychos across the gender spectrum or across both genders however

00:53:28.680 you want to put it right yeah so they did they did they did look at that they did they did look

00:53:34.980 at that and the challenge is if that were true as women spent um over the last like 50 years abuse

00:53:43.120 child abuse from women has gone up not down even though they've spent less time with their kids

00:53:47.660 so if that were true as they spent like less time the abuse would go down but it went up

00:53:52.500 um and i also i don't really like giving an excuse for child abuse i mean we can but

00:53:58.400 i don't know if i don't know saying that i don't know women can be psychopaths and hurt children

00:54:03.780 i don't think we should qualify it by saying like oh well only like women are intensely more likely

00:54:09.660 to be doing loads of child abuse towards children so for example if we take one metric which is

00:54:13.720 infanticide which is a horrible thing and it's terrible that women are more likely to do it

00:54:17.060 if we take that one metric and say therefore this means that all of this other stuff is not true

00:54:20.620 then this is like intuitively a silly thing to do so this is like me saying okay well actually

00:54:25.940 that infanticide thing doesn't matter at all because more men sexually abuse their kids okay

00:54:30.360 well I actually so I'm going to tie this back into what we were talking about earlier um the

00:54:35.820 nurturing because it kind of goes together right so I actually think women are far more violent

00:54:41.200 than men and the only reason that's true but I'll get to it so I I think that if women have

00:54:50.600 the strength that men did and could actually throw punches, I would be terrified. I would be

00:54:56.860 terrified. That's true, because most of the violent crime that men commit is against other men, which

00:55:01.620 means that if women have the same properties, they will be committing against other women on an equal

00:55:04.980 playing field. Women aren't murdering other women en masse, even though they have similar physical

00:55:09.560 strength. Okay, so the reason I think this is a few reasons. So as I said earlier, the first way

00:55:16.500 I view the world is through real life that's how I personally come to my conclusions first meaning

00:55:22.820 if um you say I have this study that says x y and z and you can just say well I heard from Gareth

00:55:29.320 that like this is fake yeah that's totally fine and I can understand where other people wouldn't

00:55:34.520 accept that or whatever um but okay okay well like scientifically speaking like it doesn't

00:55:41.080 abide by any of I would I would I would say I would say I would say it's a good thing because

00:55:47.480 I then you can't be manipulated um because if someone can just throw a piece of paper

00:55:52.100 and and and it well not my and my experience but it's it's totally fine you don't have to agree

00:55:59.600 but I'm telling you how I came to my conclusion okay so sure okay so the first the first the

00:56:06.860 first way that I've come to this conclusion is because seeing how violent women were with me,

00:56:14.740 um, women get upset. And the only times I've done street interviews and I've interviewed

00:56:18.520 men, um, I I've, I've even come, um, in London, uh, in places that really weren't the best with

00:56:24.680 controversial signs and women, uh, you know, men will sit down and they will be calm,

00:56:29.480 talk about their differences. You know, I've, I've had women threatened to attack me.

00:56:33.760 So that's the first way, but that's not the only way that I've come to this conclusion.

00:56:38.500 The second is I like to see who is more likely to murder the innocent, because when it comes

00:56:46.040 to men, if you look at the murder stats, the majority of men in jail for murder, it was

00:56:50.500 a bar fight gone wrong.

00:56:52.560 And the majority of women in jail for murder have done it because they've killed their

00:56:55.320 husband who was raped and abused her.

00:56:56.060 Meaning they accidentally killed somebody with their fist.

00:57:01.560 Most men in jail for murder are in jail for an accidental bar fight.

00:57:04.960 Meaning, so it's usually a fight gone wrong.

00:57:08.940 Meaning that they killed somebody with their fist.

00:57:11.500 It's totally wrong.

00:57:12.720 Still killed the innocent.

00:57:13.460 Is an innocent person still?

00:57:14.700 It's completely, it's completely, it's completely wrong.

00:57:19.760 However, I believe that if women had that capacity, it would be far worse.

00:57:25.580 And the reason I think that is because, and the reason, and the reason, well,

00:57:31.160 what I look at is what they do with the innocent when it comes to children and the elderly. When

00:57:37.360 you look at abuse towards children and the elderly, it is 75% women. You're welcome to look

00:57:44.860 it up. It's totally fine. So obviously they're in higher proximity around like the elderly. So

00:57:50.720 it's more likely that you're going to have psychopaths who are women when more women

00:57:54.820 around the elderly are there so i i would reject i would reject that excuse um i personally will

00:58:02.020 not give an excuse for that you're totally willing you're totally okay what's more likely

00:58:08.400 to happen a random guy goes into a care facility and he's not a care worker for the elderly and

00:58:13.260 he just decides he's going to fucking kill loads of innocent elderly ladies or is it more likely

00:58:17.480 that someone who works in the care sector and is also more than likely happens to be a woman

00:58:21.900 like it's gonna have you ever have you ever seen have you ever seen have you ever seen interviews

00:58:28.940 with like pedos I hate saying that but like that you know I'm not gonna I'm gonna just say I'm

00:58:34.040 gonna say I'm gonna use a different word because we're on YouTube um oh my gosh what word do you

00:58:40.880 call me I'm just gonna say I don't want to say I'm gonna say addos addos because I'm trying to

00:58:46.020 I don't want YouTube to get flagged okay when you look at them a lot of times they'll target

00:58:50.880 certain industries because they have that inclination so if i were going to go down that

00:58:56.300 route i would say that those people targeted them because they wanted to do that but i don't think

00:59:02.540 going back and forth about the reasoning is productive i just look at what they're doing

00:59:06.720 and if i look at who's committing those crimes way to understand the world

00:59:11.220 okay totally fine um so yeah and see how like a reductive way of understanding the world is like

00:59:16.780 not grounded in reality I totally get it I'm not going to listen to you when you present me

00:59:21.580 statistics I'm not going to listen to you I totally get it you think your way and he told

00:59:26.960 me this like it's actually like silly totally fine you think your way of looking at the world

00:59:31.880 is better than mine no no it's totally fine like it's totally you think right it's the correct way

00:59:37.280 like I have a worldview which is a feminist view and that is one way but the way okay is to use

00:59:42.880 like scientific. I would say that's like understanding statistics. I would say anecdotes

00:59:49.140 are very difficult to reconcile with one another. I would say that's a little egotistical, but that's,

00:59:54.900 that's fine. I mean, men invented this, the scientific method according to you. So like I'm

01:00:02.160 abiding by, by these enlightenment rationality values. Yeah. Okay. So let's, let's talk about

01:00:08.600 who's more oppressed men or women you don't like that question um is there another way that i'll

01:00:15.200 even give you the floor if you have a better way you want to say it or come at it go ahead

01:00:19.140 um okay who's more oppressed i think i wouldn't necessarily take an issue with with the claim

01:00:33.100 necessarily i would just ask you to qualify what you mean in terms of oppression

01:00:41.180 okay um when i think of oppression i would say it's having the freedom without the responsibility

01:00:48.620 that comes with it a way that i would say um a way that i would say that um men are oppressed

01:00:57.740 and an example I gave is a woman having the freedom to put a kid on a guy, even on somebody

01:01:06.780 else and commit paternity fraud. I would say the man that is, because he, sorry, I'm trying to say

01:01:12.900 this in a better way. When a guy is a victim of paternity fraud, when he has a child and he has

01:01:20.560 to pay for it, he has the responsibility of it, but it's not his kid. And I would say that's a

01:01:25.060 way that he's oppressed. Go ahead. Okay. And do you think this outweighs ways that women have

01:01:30.620 been oppressed as well? Not just that example. Um, but. So what are some examples that would

01:01:36.760 outweigh something that you predict I might say about women being oppressed? Well, I don't know

01:01:41.440 your stuff. I'm just being honest. I don't know. I don't know what you would say because I don't

01:01:47.900 know you that well, but go ahead. I mean, why don't you just think of a typical feminist and

01:01:52.640 what you believe they understand of oppression. What is something that you would say outweighs

01:01:58.640 all of that stuff in terms of what men, what the cause that men are dealt in society?

01:02:02.720 Okay. I don't know, but why don't you just tell me what you think and we could talk about it?

01:02:10.080 Sure. So, I mean, I think that if we take individual examples of anything, I think you're

01:02:17.560 like desperate to hold onto this idea of anecdotal evidence and what you see in the world

01:02:21.080 being more important and more like quantifiable than anything that i present to you so i think

01:02:25.620 it's a bit of a waste of time to go back and forth with you telling me that you know a guy

01:02:29.740 and me telling you that like based on hundreds of thousands of guys this is like overwhelmingly

01:02:33.940 untrue so instead i'll just like list off some reasons why i think that historically

01:02:39.320 women are probably more oppressed okay i would say for example if we talk about the u.s until

01:02:46.300 about 19... Okay, hold on. 1974, a woman could be denied a credit card or a loan without a male

01:02:53.100 co-signer, a father or a husband. And then we have this act that comes in in 1974 that makes it

01:02:58.460 illegal to discriminate based on your sex or your marital status. So what that means is that a lot

01:03:03.420 of living grandmothers, people who are alive today, were adults when women couldn't borrow their own

01:03:08.280 money. Is that oppression? No, I don't think so. Okay. And why is that not oppression?

01:03:15.460 um because now we have women taking out credit cards and they don't pay it off

01:03:20.320 men take out credit cards they don't pay it off should we stop men from taking out credit cards

01:03:25.200 80 of the world's debt is owned by women and 20 of the world's debt is owned by men

01:03:31.480 all right but we i i don't like the and like could we start with the women so women are more

01:03:37.780 likely to shoulder certain burdens within like the home anyway which probably increases like

01:03:41.480 that they're going to be the ones shouldering the debt.

01:03:44.140 So, for example, until 1974, it's overwhelmingly the case

01:03:46.940 that men are signing off on this stuff.

01:03:49.120 And then after that, it's overwhelmingly the case

01:03:50.640 that women and mothers are signing off on it

01:03:52.160 because then there's responsibilities.

01:03:54.280 So oftentimes in a partnership, both of them are carrying debt.

01:03:57.800 Both of them are carrying a similar amount of debt,

01:03:59.220 but it's more often co-signed within the woman's name,

01:04:01.200 so it looks like women have more debt.

01:04:03.660 Yeah.

01:04:04.300 I would say if you look at the degrees that women are taking out,

01:04:07.940 um it's degrees that don't make any money overwhelmingly um so you're talking about

01:04:14.140 like college degrees yes partially yes master's degrees it never ends

01:04:21.420 okay yeah so you think that it's not oppression to tell women what kind of college degree they

01:04:28.960 should do and what and the extent to which they should be taking out well the well the

01:04:33.580 I don't really care what women spend as long as they pay it back.

01:04:41.280 But the problem is now women aren't paying it back.

01:04:45.820 That's kind of how debt works, right?

01:04:48.200 If you have debt, you're probably struggling to pay it back.

01:04:52.220 No, because men actually do pay back their debt.

01:04:55.280 If you look at men versus women and student debt,

01:04:58.220 men are actually making payments on their debt where women are defaulting.

01:05:01.320 so again the the challenge is women will make a decision and a man always has to bail them out of

01:05:07.940 it and that's so do you think so even if this is true even if i grant you this which i wouldn't

01:05:13.000 necessarily grant it to you do you think that the solution for that is to mandate or legally

01:05:18.240 enforce some kind of thing where women have less freedoms in society on account of what you believe

01:05:23.920 is bad behavior um i would love to see education get unsubsidized in the united states

01:05:31.140 I don't know if that's a gendered thing, but women are the ones that mostly do it.

01:05:36.600 I personally, that would be something I would love to see in my lifetime.

01:05:42.840 Do you think teaching and education is a valuable job?

01:05:45.100 I'm very excited.

01:05:46.300 Sorry, my audio.

01:05:47.380 It's like the cord.

01:05:50.000 Sorry, could you say that one more time?

01:05:51.940 Do you think that teaching or educating is a valuable job?

01:05:55.860 Maybe at one point, but nowadays people graduate high school.

01:05:59.160 They can't even read.

01:05:59.940 i'm from chicago it's really bad here it's terrible here okay yeah do you think that

01:06:05.620 without teachers we probably have a little bit of a difficult time no you think that we don't

01:06:10.920 need teachers i don't think the teacher because education is subsidized in the united states so

01:06:16.840 it's very hard to fire bad teachers so i i don't i don't ask i don't think do you think that

01:06:23.120 teaching is some kind it's like a valuable job to have inside so for example if i taught your

01:06:27.940 child to read would you be like oh that's a good thing till he taught my child to read or would you

01:06:32.380 be like fuck tilly for teaching my kid to read yeah well i think that women became teachers and

01:06:37.540 screwed up the whole system women have like what teaching used to be majority men in the united

01:06:43.900 states in like the 1800s it used to be men um and over time the education system just has gone

01:06:50.720 downhill and now now we literally like in downtown chicago there's people that can't read and they

01:06:55.080 graduate high school and teaching is like 80 percent female teachers i would say it's mostly

01:07:01.860 female teachers yeah i would say that i can't wait hold on hold on hold on hold on not all

01:07:07.880 wait wait i have to i have to say this to stay monetized not all women not all women not all

01:07:12.920 not all not all go ahead sorry i do have to say that i'm trying to stay monetized um go ahead

01:07:19.080 that's how that's how much of a protected class women are i can't even make real generalizations

01:07:23.520 about them without being, without them like cutting my pay. That's how BS this is. Go ahead.

01:07:30.800 Go ahead. I think that you have a skewed understanding of what oppression means. I

01:07:34.680 think oppression means limiting people's choices to do things, even when you disagree with those

01:07:38.780 choices. Yeah. I don't mind if people make choices. I don't, I don't care at all if women

01:07:43.280 make choices. You do mind. I think women shouldn't be allowed to take out credit cards.

01:07:46.620 No, I think they should pay for their credit cards. And if women actually had to pay back

01:07:50.520 their debt, I don't think women... What happens in society when someone

01:07:53.880 doesn't pay back their debt? If they're a woman, do they get special treatment?

01:07:57.000 Sort of. There's whole industries. There's a lot of bankruptcy lawyers in Chicago that

01:08:03.080 make money off of... It's actually quite BS when I started learning about the process. I was like,

01:08:07.560 I should have did this. But there's a lot of...

01:08:10.760 Bankruptcy lawyers are only helping out the women.

01:08:14.040 If you talk to them, they'll tell you it's mostly women. It's men too, but it's mostly women.

01:08:18.040 And who am I to argue with you if you've spoken to them?

01:08:21.020 Well, you're welcome to talk to the ones in London.

01:08:23.060 I don't mind.

01:08:23.660 They'll probably tell you the same thing.

01:08:24.780 This is the thing, Hannah.

01:08:26.920 We can't solve this conflict.

01:08:28.700 If I say, well, I've spoken to loads of bankruptcy lawyers in London,

01:08:31.400 and they tell me the complete opposite,

01:08:32.920 and then if you tell me, but I've spoken to loads of bankruptcy lawyers in Chicago,

01:08:36.100 who's going to come out on top?

01:08:37.820 If both of us have an equal distribution of anecdotal evidence,

01:08:40.680 who's coming out on top?

01:08:41.660 It's probably someone with the data as well.

01:08:43.640 And I have the data too.

01:08:45.000 Well, here's the thing.

01:08:46.760 I don't care about winning.

01:08:47.780 I'm just having a conversation.

01:08:49.840 So I'm telling you what I think.

01:08:51.300 You can tell me what you think.

01:08:52.880 So you'll concede to losing then?

01:08:54.760 I'll have a conversation with you.

01:08:56.880 I don't, winning, losing, I don't care.

01:08:59.940 Like it's, that's what I'm telling you.

01:09:02.240 If you don't care, then like you're making some kind of concession.

01:09:05.520 If you want to take it that way.

01:09:07.440 It's not my problem.

01:09:08.860 I know, how else do I take it?

01:09:10.580 I mean, you could look at the data too.

01:09:13.360 The majority of bankruptcies are filed by women.

01:09:16.080 That's not the argument that I'm making.

01:09:17.780 i'm not trying to argue with you about bankruptcy among women okay well then you could you could

01:09:23.560 i'm trying to argue with you that telling women that they receive some kind of special treatment

01:09:27.600 and they get to not pay off their debts for the rest of their lives is a silly thing to say

01:09:31.160 well finally i think that finally a lot of like issues with credit and the women aren't

01:09:37.860 receiving special treatment well finally finally finally finally finally trump has come in and

01:09:45.780 starts garnishing women's wages so that's been awesome so sometimes sometimes there is some

01:09:51.380 out of student loans so again because women are the ones defaulting majority on their student loans

01:09:56.740 um so finally trump has come in and i can't remember the law he passed but basically they

01:10:03.120 can take it out of your bank account now where before they would just default and you couldn't

01:10:06.800 take it out of their bank account thank god so do you think this should apply for like what if men

01:10:11.920 are doing humanities degrees as well yeah i agree but more women do is it the issue is that you

01:10:18.340 devalue a humanities degree as something that's not necessarily worthwhile i don't know anything

01:10:23.680 about a humanities degree but it doesn't sound like it i don't know do you know what the humanities

01:10:29.240 means i i don't know anything about that degree you're welcome to tell me but i i would what i

01:10:35.420 would do if i was to analyze that is i would look at so the humanities is like humanity's average

01:10:43.040 like you have science technology engineering maths men are more likely to do this and then you have

01:10:47.240 humanity subjects so this is like i study humanity subjects i study political science

01:10:51.380 international relations you have like economics history humanity oh no all of these okay i know

01:10:57.220 what you're talking about you have law is a humanity so women are more like to do that

01:11:00.960 And men are more likely to be doing STEM, but this gap is kind of closing as you see

01:11:04.980 more gender equality happening anyway.

01:11:06.720 Well, the challenge is-

01:11:07.940 So is your issue with the fact that women are doing bad degrees or is your issue with

01:11:12.280 the fact that like no one should be doing a humanities degree?

01:11:15.120 I don't care what degree you want to do.

01:11:17.920 I'm looking at the subjects that that entails.

01:11:20.780 None of these seem to have a high ROI.

01:11:23.600 So if you don't make the money back and pay back the money and then society has to bail

01:11:28.700 you out and they pass things like student loan forgiveness, which comes from our taxes,

01:11:33.640 that's when I have a problem. It is the majority one gender that is doing that. But if a man does

01:11:39.160 it too, I have the same problem. I think this is also an issue that's really specific to the U.S.,

01:11:45.300 which has extremely inflated tuition fees. So people probably feel that they have much more

01:11:50.140 skin in the game when it comes to mandating what they believe people's personal choices should be.

01:11:54.140 In the United Kingdom, can you guess what our tuition fees look like?

01:11:57.280 i went to school in the uk i think my you did yeah you know you know firsthand we have like

01:12:02.740 we are way cheaper than you guys over in the u.s and we're more likely that i gotta be honest

01:12:08.260 you guys so do you think maybe it's a system of like tuition fees dealing a bad hand or do you

01:12:14.120 think it's women making bad choices because for example if you have a woman in like china who goes

01:12:18.300 to pursue a degree in something that's going to look very different to a woman in america pursuing

01:12:21.900 the same degree so would you say that it's a national issue rather than a gender issue

01:12:25.900 no because I didn't really see a difference like the girls and this is what I mean with

01:12:30.860 firsthand experience right the women I went to school with none of them are really working in

01:12:37.340 their field like maybe it's because I'm an athlete but half of them are trainers they

01:12:40.640 didn't even get jobs in their field so like you went to school made friends with a bunch of

01:12:44.240 athletes and then got surprised yeah well I played I played I played volleyball in England

01:12:48.020 for three years and all your friends were like athletes as well um the people i knew were

01:12:55.320 athletes some were friends some weren't but yeah and then a lot of them ended up going on to become

01:12:59.980 like trainers a lot of them good percent or like working in like serving like a lot of them

01:13:04.820 a lot of those women like all of these women becoming personal trainers well it wasn't just

01:13:09.600 that it was like crazy it wasn't it wasn't just that it was like serving jobs like like my point

01:13:15.220 is they weren't working in the field so like you made friends with people who are athletes and then

01:13:21.460 those athletes went on to become personal trainers and then you're deciding that that means women

01:13:25.320 don't use their humanities degrees well it wouldn't just be that um it would be patterns that i've

01:13:31.220 seen not not just there but like um even in undergrad in the year it would be the same thing

01:13:36.040 different countries women getting degrees in one thing and not working in that i mean what percent

01:13:41.100 of STEM do you think are women? That's a good question actually. I think that we're seeing a

01:13:48.380 little bit more of an even distribution these days of STEM subjects between men and women

01:13:51.820 because gender equality measures have increased. It's 22% and even when they get into the field,

01:14:00.060 for example, most female doctors quit before they're 40. Yeah, most doctors are quite rich

01:14:07.900 by the time they're 40. No, they're not. That's actually just not true.

01:14:12.620 In America, they have some of the highest wages in the world.

01:14:15.180 No, they do have high wages, but they have to pay back. I have a friend who's doing it right now.

01:14:23.660 Women make up 34% of the STEM workforce. It's not quite as dramatic. In terms of certain degrees,

01:14:30.540 like women account for for more for more than half in in in some in some context so i'm seeing

01:14:37.100 here that it's like women account for quite a is it's quite is this engineering and um but yeah

01:14:43.640 so women are underrepresented in stem degrees are less likely to go for stem degrees but i don't

01:14:47.420 think it's quite as dramatic as like 22 it looks more like 35 to 40 so it's like a 10 10 to 15

01:14:53.200 difference correct but the the challenge is if you look at how long they stay in the field most

01:14:58.940 of them quit before the 10 year mark and the thing that the doctors um they quit because it's

01:15:05.420 harder than they thought is my take you're probably going to say women 10 years into their

01:15:09.380 career of suddenly realizing it's hard or is it that women 10 years into their career are more

01:15:12.940 likely to have a child well if you have a kid they have daycare now so you can you can get daycare

01:15:18.800 right it's not really well if they've got daycare i don't i don't really see a point and then and

01:15:23.860 they could start again. Would you agree that a lot of women end up quitting their job?

01:15:29.780 Well, and the thing is most women aren't even having kids. That's why they keep talking about

01:15:33.860 the birth rate. A lot of women are having kids. The birth rate's less than two. What are you

01:15:38.260 talking about? Well, I know loads of women who have kids. How are you going to argue with that?

01:15:42.900 I know loads of women and they actually all have like 10 kids. I used to live across the street

01:15:46.900 from a couple who had 12 kids. That's crazy. How old were they?

01:15:50.660 So take your birth rate statistic and shove it because I know a guy who has 17 kids.

01:15:57.300 I'm asking you questions. So if that's true, how old were the parents?

01:16:02.500 The parents were, so as when I was younger, this is like, I'm actually going to go here. You know

01:16:07.060 what? Like if you're actually using this metric, if you're actually being like insane, I'm going

01:16:11.620 to go here. So I was at the time, this is eight years ago. So I'm 20 years old. I would have been

01:16:17.700 12 okay um when i knew this this couple who had a bunch of kids i think they even had they had a tv

01:16:23.700 show um they owned a pie shop and their tv show was about how they just had so many kids

01:16:28.340 and they couldn't stop having kids and then this was entertaining people so this is eight years ago

01:16:34.980 the couple would probably be they were quite a young couple they started having kids pretty young

01:16:38.980 so 40 45 okay but my point my point my point is that actually backs up what i'm saying because

01:16:47.380 this is when you were 12, right? Yes. Okay. Different, different, like my, my, I'm from a

01:16:53.140 family of 10 kids. Okay. So that would actually match up with what I've seen. When I was a kid,

01:16:58.640 I knew a lot of people, five, six kids, but nowadays, not really. Maybe, maybe all the

01:17:03.820 girls. Well, I met a guy last week and he had 12 kids. So, well, that that's possible. We're at,

01:17:09.540 and that's the thing I could, how old is he? If you just throw an anecdote at me and then you

01:17:15.600 give me some kind of ought from that if you see like this do you know okay do you know what

01:17:20.000 do you understand why I'm like oh that doesn't make sense I can just lie to you do you know what

01:17:26.880 good faith is and bad faith do you know what the difference is yeah and I think that it's a bad

01:17:31.520 faith argument to continue throwing anecdotes at me when I present you know so and I'm taking the

01:17:36.180 logic like ad absurdium to demonstrate to you that this is an absurd way I've been I've been polite

01:17:41.580 to you would you agree or disagree like i've let you come on i think i think i've been no you

01:17:46.300 totally have you totally have correct correct but when good faith is i i'm not gonna assume that

01:17:54.460 you're lying okay sure and so if you tell me you're gonna start lying either about anecdotes

01:18:01.260 but that doesn't mean totally and if you want to keep insane if you want to keep insinuating

01:18:05.500 i it's totally fine i you know but i'm telling you what i've seen and i you know i'm not going

01:18:11.420 going to patronize you when you tell me what you've seen. So if you tell me that you've met

01:18:15.840 this person, I just asked you a question. What I'm going to say is it doesn't necessarily belong

01:18:19.180 in a conversation where we're thinking about actual broad sweeping generalizations about

01:18:24.760 society. And the example that I bring is when you told me a bunch of my friends didn't use

01:18:29.940 their humanities degrees. I'm an athlete. I had loads of athletes friends and they became personal

01:18:33.680 trainers. Do you understand how that actually doesn't tie into anything about humanities

01:18:37.900 degrees whatsoever? All it ties into is your friend group and who you were friends with.

01:18:40.860 well this is why anecdotes are more unreliable than studies well i did see a similar thing in

01:18:45.580 because i'm thinking like the girls that studied psychology there's a lot of them in my on my team

01:18:50.500 both in the u.s and here and they just didn't seem to work in the field if they did anything

01:18:55.720 in writing anything and and you can say that's not what you've seen you can tell me what you've

01:19:00.240 seen at oxford but there's no need to like patronize me if i'm being polite to you you

01:19:04.480 know what i mean i'm not being patronizing at all i'm just saying it's a silly metric right

01:19:08.540 Like I'm not patronizing you as a person. I'm sure that you have experienced those things.

01:19:12.720 I'm sure you're totally we can go back and forth. What you do going forward is up to you.

01:19:17.940 I'm just letting you know. OK, so how do you think? So you think the credit cards were oppressive?

01:19:24.360 What else did you think were oppressive? No, no. I think that banning women from having credit cards was oppressive.

01:19:31.500 OK, that's totally fine. What was there anything else that you think women were oppressed?

01:19:35.880 uh yeah i think that women have historically been the victims of um violent crime domestic abuse

01:19:44.260 violent crime by from men towards women and domestic abuse and rape and femicide

01:19:49.660 say great if you don't marriage is increasing if you don't i'm sorry if you don't i do have to i'm

01:19:54.640 gonna let you go but say grape just for youtube i try to say yeah yeah i didn't tell you that

01:19:59.600 that's my fault but just say great okay that is okay so so yeah women are the primary victims of

01:20:05.080 grape and that includes for example warfare so for example grape victims have higher rates of

01:20:10.840 ptsd than veterans and also oftentimes we can take various examples of wars where men have gone and

01:20:17.960 fought in wars but for every man that has fought in a war upwards of three to four women have been

01:20:24.040 graped okay three to four women and where do you find this three to four women have been graped

01:20:30.440 i'm not saying you're wrong i'm just wondering where it came so you have examples like the

01:20:35.080 republic of the congo from like 1998 so this is the great capital of the world okay cool and there

01:20:41.780 are also a lot of active combatants in the congo and if you look at these figures what you'll see

01:20:46.700 is that about three to four women are graped per man involved in that war in the congo could you

01:20:52.400 do me a favor and um if possible can we stick to the west um and the reason is because when you

01:21:00.580 start bringing in africa and these other countries it's just out of my scope i don't want to like

01:21:05.700 argue about something i don't know um you know if you you're welcome to like bring that back but i

01:21:11.520 would primarily love to just stay in the west is that possible okay can we do soviet invasion of

01:21:17.580 germany then um we can but i'd really just prefer to keep uk america so just the fine fine that's

01:21:28.320 fine the west i did say the west that's fine you just say the west i did i did fine go ahead

01:21:33.540 it's short like so so in like 1944 and 45 okay um you have one to two million german women are

01:21:42.120 and the soviet soldiers in europe at the time is like four million so this is a case where like

01:21:46.960 you have not about 0.5 women graped per soldier but this is also like something where it's super

01:21:51.800 concentrated among certain divisions and it's also like a disproportionately affecting a bunch

01:21:55.300 of civilian women so you have soldiers versus civilian women and like even if we conservatively

01:22:01.220 generalize from a bunch of case studies i know you said stick to the west but if we conservatively

01:22:04.840 generalize like globally and also if we generalize from wars that happen within the west even though

01:22:09.240 a lot of wars that happen are proxy wars outside of the west where western soldiers then are out

01:22:13.460 like diffuse across europe and outside of it so that they can like impose whatever agenda or

01:22:17.640 and what is your definition of grape is that does that include like

01:22:24.280 is that like a knife to your head or sorry knife to you know grape or is this like drunken regret

01:22:30.600 grape like what what is the i i you might have if someone has if someone has sex and then drunkenly

01:22:36.360 regrets having it then no obviously they weren't grapes okay they have a regret all right fine

01:22:41.320 fine um so my opinion is that men built civilization um historically men worked

01:22:49.000 laborious jobs seven to six six to seven days a week and went off and died in wars

01:22:54.380 women stayed inside they were teachers they were secretaries they raised the kid they were they

01:22:59.460 were cleaners um i do think great is unfortunate cleaners let's just i i go to college i um i do

01:23:07.500 think it's, I'm not pro-grape, you know, that's unfortunate. That did happen in wars. But I would

01:23:12.900 say historically men did have it harder and women were a protected class, especially in America.

01:23:18.200 If women were such a protected class, then why were so many women graped as a weapon of war?

01:23:22.580 And why is it that grape victims who are overwhelmingly women have higher rates of PTSD

01:23:26.140 than veterans? Well, PTSD, I would say suicide is a better, you know, because you can kind of,

01:23:35.480 you know, take a survey and do whatever. But if you look at suicide rates of veterans, I mean,

01:23:41.180 more veterans in America have committed suicide than all of the world wars combined.

01:23:45.700 It's really not good. That's because more men are successful at committing suicide. I know that

01:23:49.700 sounds like a crude way of saying it. But about the same amount as men, of women attempt suicide.

01:23:57.220 But it's just that men are more likely to be successful at it because they use more violent

01:24:00.320 methods like they're more likely to i i understand that women also attempt but i gotta look at who's

01:24:06.020 who's dying here and and this is kind of my issue why does that matter well this is this is kind of

01:24:12.060 my issue with feminists is i never understand why you guys when you talk about a men's issue

01:24:17.620 like that's a terrible thing right but we always have to make it about women like i never understood

01:24:23.060 why we can't say hey you know you know because i have relatives that served right and these are

01:24:28.540 guys that like you know they went overseas for 20 30 years um and the stuff they come back like

01:24:35.280 they they came back with is pretty rough so i just never understood why we try to minimize men's

01:24:39.400 issues and you kind of do you kind of do never minimize a veteran going through terrible things

01:24:43.400 i also have relative to a veterans and i think that it is a men's issue and i'm totally like

01:24:48.900 someone who advocates against all unnecessary wars and for justice for men and i think as much as

01:24:53.940 as humanly possible we should be avoiding conscription and the draft for everybody

01:24:57.420 i'm definitely not someone who would minimize it well what are we gonna do the ground are that

01:25:01.000 grape has a higher rate of ptsd that's not saying that ptsd among veterans is like minimal and i'm

01:25:06.420 like not that okay so right but why like why even bring that up then you know what i mean it's like

01:25:12.080 why i'm demonstrating because you asked me a question about how women have been historically

01:25:16.160 more oppressed than men and i've given you one and then you've told me that i'm actually just

01:25:20.000 doing a minimization yeah well because you guys kind of do and that's why i keep trying to say

01:25:24.560 when we talk about women and talk about men, let's try to keep it separate if we can.

01:25:28.840 Because I've just noticed whenever I bring up like a men's issue, like if I say,

01:25:32.500 you know, men don't have access to their kids, it's always, well, women don't have access to

01:25:36.060 their kids. Or if I say, hey, men are victims of suicide from war. It's like, well, women have

01:25:40.800 PTSD too. It's like, I think it's because you're using those facts to make prescriptive claims

01:25:45.120 about what women should do in response. Like I would totally go to a conference or whatever it

01:25:49.220 is and like hear men's stories and listen to them speak about the horrible things that they've been

01:25:52.860 through and empathize with them on the fact that they've experienced this oppression in society.

01:25:56.640 I'm not going to go and show up to a conference where men, when men like make these claims. And

01:26:00.960 then from that, what follows is, and also like women's claims. Well, you, you realize like

01:26:05.280 veterans are a good percentage of my audience. So, you know, it's like they listen to this,

01:26:13.060 you know, this, this pretty blonde girl. Right. And she's like, yeah, well, women have suicide

01:26:17.420 too. You know, it's, it can be. No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if you've

01:26:22.160 been graped that is also like likely to happen during a war yeah okay so these are these are

01:26:27.480 things that veterans might also share so for example if you're a veteran and a woman like

01:26:32.780 you've probably experienced some kind of essay or grape in your life um so there is that but also

01:26:38.440 it's like i i don't understand how a veteran could conclude that i'm minimizing their struggles

01:26:43.920 by saying that grape victims have extremely high rates of ptsd yeah well i mean this is kind of

01:26:48.540 why men don't open up to women because because they'll say I don't know how you could feel that

01:26:52.620 way sorry I think you're well I think you're I think you're I think you're well meaning I think

01:26:59.320 you're well meaning but I'm just telling you how it comes across um okay so what else was I gonna

01:27:05.960 okay so you think the grape I'll give you the great you think women the majority of women have

01:27:10.640 been graped today do you really think that no okay I I didn't know if you meant that today

01:27:17.020 so you don't you don't think that but the majority of women have experienced some capacity of sexual

01:27:20.960 harassment like if you look at this objectively don't they include cat calling in that

01:27:28.220 is cat calling sexual harassment i don't know you tell me you you you would know more than me i don't

01:27:34.380 know why would i know more than you hannah because you brought up sexual harassment i thought you

01:27:40.300 would know no so do you think that catcalling is sexual harassment I don't I don't but I don't know

01:27:47.100 what the definition is so I would I personally so if you don't know what sexual harassment is

01:27:52.700 how can you say that something isn't sexual harassment um because I don't know what the

01:27:58.340 official how are we how are we doing this well I don't I can't quote you know what's the definition

01:28:03.200 of anything I can't quote you the definition of like light or microphone off the top of my head

01:28:09.820 So I don't know what the dictionary definition is.

01:28:12.140 I'm just saying, personally, it wouldn't offend me.

01:28:15.220 I'd just say, no, thank you.

01:28:16.560 Well, I'll give you the definition of sexual harassment.

01:28:18.440 It's harassing someone sexually.

01:28:20.260 And catcalling falls under harassing someone sexually

01:28:22.580 because it's going up to someone and harassing them in a sexual context.

01:28:26.780 Oh, my God.

01:28:27.140 It's no wonder men don't approach anymore.

01:28:29.880 Because who determines the difference between harassment and wanted attention?

01:28:37.560 You know what I mean?

01:28:38.000 uh no not really could you explain what you mean by that well men used to catcall because sometimes

01:28:44.500 it worked right some women were into it yeah i mean sometimes i walk down the street and a man

01:28:48.880 shouts nice tits come and get in my car and i'm like you know what like i'm gonna get like that's

01:28:54.260 he's got a point right like catcalling is not something that works courting someone works

01:28:58.600 going on a date with someone works telling someone that they're beautiful and you'd like

01:29:01.540 to take them out works shouting nice tits across the street isn't like a foolproof way to prove

01:29:06.040 that you're like marriageable to a woman yeah but i mean i have um you're gonna you're gonna say i

01:29:12.000 know a guy but i do know a guy and he he approaches he doesn't say he doesn't say it like that but

01:29:18.840 you know he'll he'll say you're beautiful you know or you know like that but some women like

01:29:23.660 even if he's trying to be respectful they take it the wrong way you know and i i know him he's not

01:29:28.840 you know he's not trying to harass anybody but you know he wants to get a date so and i emphasize

01:29:34.800 with that. I think that men should also be a little bit sensitive to the fact that they're

01:29:37.940 much physically stronger than women by a lot of different metrics. Women are more likely to be

01:29:42.700 intimidated when a man approaches them, telling them that they think they're beautiful or they're

01:29:46.440 very attractive, and that potentially there should be a little bit of sensitivity around that.

01:29:51.320 I think if it's done politely, I would take no issue with being approached and just politely

01:29:55.780 rejecting it and going on with my day and then totally fine with that. There's a difference

01:30:00.720 between sexual aggression and just being approached and asked out. And I think there's

01:30:04.840 no issue with that. And I actually would, I would encourage more men to, to approach

01:30:09.200 women in public. I would also, I would encourage to reverse. Like I also, I think that things

01:30:12.560 like dating apps can be a little bit harmful to the dating scene, right?

01:30:16.080 Okay. So I think that women are a protected class in society. And I want to know, why

01:30:23.160 don't feminists fight for women to do 50% of the manual labor in society? So like construction,

01:30:30.720 construction, plumbing, electrician? Why is there only talks of women not being CEOs,

01:30:38.980 but there's never talks of women doing construction jobs, for example?

01:30:45.240 I think there's two things that you can say about this. The first one is that

01:30:48.020 construction is considered a less aspirational job. Most people don't dream of being a construction

01:30:52.840 worker, even men. The second thing is doing hard jobs doesn't dictate your societal value.

01:30:58.460 and I think that even ultra-traditionalist people recognize that. A lot of people who are super

01:31:02.640 conservative and traditional will say women bring just as much value through childcare and nursing

01:31:06.460 and typically female-dominated industries, and maybe even some feminists would agree with that

01:31:10.180 on different grounds. When it comes to social participation, society is about working as a team

01:31:14.440 to achieve things. For example, would you say, oh, we should encourage men over 40 to go and do

01:31:19.500 construction or work at an oil rig? I think that if women want equality,

01:31:25.980 that women should do 50 percent of the hard jobs before they complain about not getting paid the

01:31:31.860 same um men make 75 of the food supply 80 of the world's stuff um and there's an economist he

01:31:40.740 categorized jobs stuff what is world's stuff so there's an economist and he he categorized

01:31:48.620 jobs into like job like basically jobs that um if the power went like jobs that society could

01:31:58.840 survive without and jobs society couldn't and it's like sick men do hold on actually i have

01:32:06.200 the book do you care if i read it to you do you care is that all right since we're doing no i don't

01:32:10.700 uh because he's so smart he came on my show contribution to the gdp let me see one second

01:32:22.220 should have did this before my bad but it's just

01:32:29.840 men do all the jobs where if the lights went out tomorrow society could not function is my point

01:32:38.260 so it's like me like for example i i have this job right but if i went away tomorrow a lot of

01:32:45.000 women would be happy um but but like society would be fine right i'm not i'm not egotistical

01:32:52.420 enough to think i'm that important but you know i do interviews and i'll interview men that do

01:32:57.300 construction for 30 years that do um plumbing for 30 years they're firemen and these are men

01:33:04.480 that we can't survive without you know like human resources that disappeared there's loads of

01:33:11.120 circumstances when women have survived and adapted to circumstance okay are you talking about like

01:33:18.300 the factory jobs is that your point um like they always say like world war ii is that during world

01:33:26.220 war ii this has happened already and society didn't crumble and collapse well that was factory

01:33:30.860 jobs though so they were factories that men built they were also building farms and they were doing

01:33:35.100 construction and they were doing difficult jobs because if you think about it it's so many men

01:33:38.560 what percent what percent of the workforce was women during that time was it the majority

01:33:43.920 what i would say is that if men between the majority wait wait wait wait wait wait during

01:33:49.640 that time was it the majority i need i just need this answer from you was it the majority

01:33:54.400 i don't know if it was a majority but what i am saying is you told me that tons of men

01:34:00.140 leave the harder jobs, then society would collapse. During World War II, tons of men,

01:34:03.960 it's not the majority, but loads of them between the ages of 18 and 39, went overseas to fighting

01:34:08.600 wars and society didn't collapse. Even if you're going to tell me, oh, actually, it was a small

01:34:12.140 amount of women who entered the workforce. What they proved was that that small amount of women

01:34:15.060 was faithful and also that society didn't collapse. So my point is so sad.

01:34:18.580 No, but what percent of factory workers were women at the time?

01:34:21.780 Do you see how, like, even if you give me some statistic, that still doesn't matter.

01:34:25.200 if i said if i my claims it was it if i said five percent that wouldn't change you wouldn't think

01:34:32.720 okay maybe they didn't weren't as important as we thought not really because i've already explained

01:34:38.240 to you why okay okay but the it was only 25 of women doing those jobs so one in four people

01:34:44.960 that means that one in four about one in four men had left and gone to fight wars overseas

01:34:51.120 if one in four men did that and society was fine then does that not prove my point exactly

01:35:00.320 not at all not at all because they're still because of the women because people in the

01:35:05.760 workforce doing the difficult jobs doing the construction being women and doing it well

01:35:09.680 such that for example english does really well because when this happens because if okay because

01:35:14.720 if 25 the 25 went away they would be fine but i think they wouldn't be fine if 25 of the workforce

01:35:23.240 fucking died then that would be awful that would not be fine you're actually proving my point that

01:35:29.660 women love taking credit for men's work i'm not taking credit for any man's work i wasn't there

01:35:35.560 yeah i just said men are dying in battle and running the factories and you said but the

01:35:41.540 women did 25% of the factory work. You told me women did 25% of the factory work. I agreed.

01:35:48.340 Men are like dying. And you're like, well, the women survived without the men.

01:35:53.180 Because you told me that women can't survive without men. And I told you.

01:35:56.020 Women can't. But I'm saying like, if tomorrow men's jobs disappeared, like we would be screwed

01:36:01.640 as women. We could not operate the infrastructure. Well, imagine the only people we had left in

01:36:05.040 society were guys who worked the oil rigs. Oh, thank God. It'd be a little bit screwed as well

01:36:08.620 we didn't have teachers educators nurses midwives and lawyers i can just that would be amazing there

01:36:13.240 would be no nagging oh my god i dream about a world like that you'd have like an abundance of

01:36:17.560 fucking oil yeah that sounds good that sounds good oil prices have been mad yeah you have you

01:36:25.040 have an abundance of oil so your oil your oil price goes down okay so you think misogyny women

01:36:30.580 are dying she's got no more midwives okay do you mind if i take a break to read super chats is that

01:36:36.180 all right with you? I don't mind. I told them to be interested to see how this, I told them to be

01:36:41.480 very respectful. Um, they don't always listen, but if they pay me, I do read it. So I just want

01:36:46.860 you to know it is not personal. I don't think they've said anything rude. If they had, please

01:36:51.940 don't get mad at me. Um, okay. I don't get mad at you. All right. So we got listening to a female

01:36:59.160 is like scratching your fingernails on a chalkboard. Eric men absolutely dream about

01:37:04.580 working in construction. I would know I'm a construction manager. Most guys in the field

01:37:08.920 love their jobs, especially difficult ones. Eric, published in 2014 by a U.S. Census Bureau,

01:37:15.180 about 50% of women in STEM leave the workforce or the field in 12 years, usually before 35.

01:37:22.760 Eric, women find it less gratifying to have a prestigious career than raise kids.

01:37:27.220 They only get high-wage jobs to get in the proximity of wealthy men.

01:37:31.420 um so very uh bill foster defense from falling down so very uh women are so nurturing they can't

01:37:38.640 wait to get child support checks paying for a babysitter to go out to the clubs women don't

01:37:43.980 want to stay home for fear of missing out um the attorney andrew men are the men are married happier

01:37:51.900 right up until the bitch divorces them and takes their kids and their stuff then they're unmarried

01:37:58.580 and unhappy sorry that was funny my wife my wife ballooned during pregnancy from stress eating

01:38:07.380 candies now my girlfriend isn't getting big while pregnant pregnancy obesity is just excuses

01:38:12.600 so very i liked the idea of becoming muslim but a beacon won me over oh wait but bacon won me over

01:38:20.160 having four wives i can slap around silly let me know when they let me know when they allow bacon

01:38:28.160 and beer um eric says oh wait i think i read that let me refresh it real quick

01:38:35.680 do you do you think you're smarter than them is that was that the point of that comment

01:38:40.480 no i think that saying that he wants a wife to slap around isn't necessarily a particularly

01:38:44.480 intellectual do you people or it's doing out their wife ballooned in pregnancy right people

01:38:48.320 at oxford have humor like you guys don't think things are funny i told you i found it really

01:38:53.200 funny when that guy said that if when his wife leaves him and takes all his and he's

01:38:57.360 gonna be unhappy then i think that's hilarious i thought the woman slapping was funny too

01:39:02.480 i don't think that was funny i mean not because i'm offended but because i like don't find it

01:39:07.120 funny right yeah but it's you know like i just didn't get i'm a cambridge pearl yeah i don't

01:39:14.480 get it not oxford i'm so sorry i don't know why i know you from the oxford clip so in my head you go

01:39:20.560 to oxford i know i was in cambridge at that time i don't know why people kind of took the oxford

01:39:24.960 thing and they ran oh really okay so we'll do one more topic because i do have to end at nine

01:39:30.480 um all right but i would love to have you on again um okay so misogyny is the foundation

01:39:38.240 of the modern gender conflict can you tell me i think you sent me that one um maybe you can tell

01:39:43.600 me what you mean by that um that's an interesting one that you've picked i wasn't expecting you

01:39:50.000 to necessarily pick this i can pick a different one i thought i thought you sent that to me but

01:39:53.840 But if you have one, you can pick the last topic because I think I've picked.

01:39:57.860 You know what?

01:39:58.480 That's fair because you pick the other topics.

01:40:00.200 Yeah, that's totally fine.

01:40:00.800 I'm going to pick the topic that your audience will hate the most, which is, which one will

01:40:05.460 they hate?

01:40:05.900 Which one will garner the most hatred?

01:40:10.200 What would you say?

01:40:10.780 Maybe feminism reduces sex work.

01:40:14.960 Okay.

01:40:15.900 I'll tell you what I think.

01:40:19.240 Do you, from your worldview, do you include marriage as sex work?

01:40:23.280 I know some feminists that's how they view it so is that how you view it no unless it's forced

01:40:30.320 marriage okay totally fine so that isn't I my initial gut reaction is that is not true based

01:40:37.680 on the number of women on OnlyFans but I'm totally you can change my mind I'm gonna read a super chat

01:40:44.400 just because it was a big one it's a little bit invasive you don't have to answer it hey Pearl

01:40:49.440 what does she bring to the table and what is her body count do you want to answer that

01:40:54.400 oh no i don't answer personal questions i agree but it's 50 but i'm going to read it sorry go

01:40:59.520 ahead no problem 50. okay so what i would say is tough times sorry go ahead go ahead go ahead

01:41:08.640 what i would say is that there are loads of avenues through which women leave sex work okay

01:41:14.480 and all of these avenues are advocated by feminists so if you want to reduce sex work

01:41:18.880 then you should have more liberal values in society. I'll explain what I mean by that.

01:41:22.160 We have this huge study in 2020 that basically dictated that an increased access to female

01:41:30.320 formal employment is the strongest statistical factor in reducing entry into sex work.

01:41:35.680 Firstly, we should qualify that women on OF and women who choose sex work are a tiny minority

01:41:39.520 of individuals, even within the West. In multiple countries, across 15 plus countries, between 65%

01:41:46.560 at a very conservative estimate and 90% of women said that they would leave sex work if they had

01:41:51.380 a stable income, if they had affordable housing, if they had education and job training. So what

01:41:57.300 I'm saying is if you want to reduce sex work, then you should encourage more women to be in

01:42:02.240 the workforce, more women to get an education. I should encourage more women to view their power

01:42:07.920 as something that lies outside of sexual appeal to men. And that's something that feminists

01:42:11.680 advocate for all the time 1.4 million women in the united states are active content creators on only

01:42:19.680 fans and most of those women are as a percentage of the u.s population no but if you include women

01:42:26.240 under 35 because let's be honest it's not like no who wants to see old ladies like five percent

01:42:31.120 something like five percent do you know what i i did the math once on my show and i can't remember

01:42:36.320 off the top of my head yeah i know it was ten percent but you got it wrong because then i did

01:42:39.920 it and it was about half of that all right five percent that's still a lot i would say

01:42:44.120 to be doing that that young uh i mean it depends how you qualify this okay like a lot compared to

01:42:52.940 what okay i don't know i just think that's a lot five percent of women under i think it was under

01:42:57.760 25 should we double check this uh you're totally welcome to when i said it on the show i don't know

01:43:04.860 if you watched there was a clip that went viral but it's unfortunate they cut before where i was

01:43:09.080 like look guys these are the numbers I'm looking at I'm not sure this is what I'm seeing I think

01:43:13.660 they cut that though they take clips from it um oh since I'm in the UK all I'm seeing is the UK

01:43:21.340 that's totally fine which is that it's four percent women between ages 18 and 34 yeah but

01:43:28.240 I would I would argue it's a little bit higher um and the reason is because there are women like

01:43:33.080 do you remember a couple years you might be too young like 10 years ago all these influencers

01:43:37.660 got found out to be like first sale or like they're getting pooped on in dubai if you remember

01:43:42.820 that now i'm not i'm not saying that that's the majority but i think we could like we could guess

01:43:48.620 that there's some under the table stuff where women have sex for rent um i had a pi on my show

01:43:53.860 and that's like one of that's one of the sex work that he's found is pretty common um so i would

01:43:59.820 guess like can we could we meet at like six seven percent i mean we can be at whatever figure right

01:44:05.960 I think that what's important to acknowledge is that it's very difficult to measure sex work

01:44:09.920 because it's illegal in a lot of places. It's highly stigmatized in a lot of places. So people

01:44:13.380 are more likely to keep it a secret, especially in societies that are honor-based, like India.

01:44:17.500 So in India and China, for example, you don't see that particularly high amount of sex work,

01:44:21.840 but there is a lot of sex work and a lot of sex trafficking that occurs.

01:44:25.140 Yeah, but we're not honor-based in the US. Come on.

01:44:27.920 No, we're not, which is why you see ostensibly more like an increase in sex work. But actually,

01:44:33.060 i would argue that it's probably more likely that you see sex workers in places like india

01:44:36.660 where there's a higher rate of poverty higher rate of honor-based killings and limited opportunities

01:44:40.100 for women i would argue that women don't do only fans for money because the average only fans

01:44:47.740 creator makes like 150 bucks a month okay so to me i think they do it because they like how can

01:44:56.100 you map that conceptually onto my claim that feminism reduces sex work and um because i think

01:45:01.340 the women that want to be sex workers just like doing that? I think that OnlyFans creators are

01:45:07.000 a minority of sex workers. Most sex workers don't want to be sex workers. You think there's more

01:45:13.260 prostitutes than OnlyFans workers? Really? Factually, yes. Yes, this is a total fact.

01:45:21.160 OnlyFans models are a minority of sex workers. How many prostitutes are there in the United

01:45:26.340 States? I mean, who really cares? I don't think so. I mean, obviously, it's going to give you

01:45:30.560 low figure because it's illegal to be a prostitute in many places across the united states or it's

01:45:33.840 illegal to be an early fans creator okay but i would say that's just your guess then no it's not

01:45:38.800 my guess okay it's like informed it's it's an informed feast like like based on what if they're

01:45:43.920 gonna hide it do you know based on the fact that sex work in one capacity is highly stigmatized and

01:45:49.600 illegal and if you're doing something illegal you're probably not going to advertise to the

01:45:53.200 internet or do some kind of study involve yourself in that so that you then incriminate yourself

01:45:58.640 Okay. It says estimates from one to two million. Okay. So then my 10% stat was about right. If we

01:46:05.120 included the hookers, I think that's maybe what I included at the time. Well, anyways,

01:46:10.080 I don't really care about sex work. I think they go ahead, sell your butthole for 599.

01:46:16.940 I really don't care. Do you think that sex work gives women some kind of power in society?

01:46:23.340 Yeah. I mean, it allows them to make money for no work pretty much. I mean, you just have to

01:46:27.620 throwback that's not hard okay you just told me they're not making any money um well the ones that

01:46:33.880 do make money make good money uh well it depends there's a small cohort of sex workers who are

01:46:38.760 powerful in society and it's because of the fact that they're female sex workers well they'll

01:46:43.200 usually do some outrageous content like um bonnie blue she's doing pretty well i i met lily phillips

01:46:49.440 actually when i was in have you have you run into her out there no i haven't i think that red pill

01:46:54.700 rhetoric often treats sexual appeal as like real power, but I don't think this is intuitively true

01:47:00.200 because if sexual power is real power, then men are going to have their dicks out on the cover of

01:47:03.860 GQ magazine all the time. But they don't because they know that sexual power is just one type of

01:47:07.820 power. It's the most volatile and conditional kind of power. Yeah, I do think that beautiful

01:47:14.580 women get very cool opportunities, I would say. Sure, but it's reliant on a power that depends

01:47:22.140 entirely on being physically desired by another group hence there are no safety nets it can be

01:47:25.740 withdrawn at any time and it functions only within the confines of male approval like it's more

01:47:30.460 difficult for you to take a law degree from someone than it is to revoke your sexual attention right

01:47:35.660 um well i mean if they want to get rid of the sexual attention just get fat takes like six

01:47:40.380 months sure exactly that's what i'm saying right the way that you remove your if you have all this

01:47:46.140 like perceived power in society the only like the ways you can remove it is by like just getting

01:47:50.780 becoming overweight saying something that men don't like or men collectively decide they're

01:47:55.020 going to you could say anything they'll still hit if you're pretty enough they do not care

01:48:00.540 they don't care at all um do i think i would say is it easy for women to lose that power or is it

01:48:06.300 i would say that feminism i would say feminism i would say in the i would say in the past

01:48:13.260 i would say if we're gonna go from like the 20s to now i would say there's probably more sex workers

01:48:19.100 now so i would say feminism increased sex work because it it gave women technology the ability

01:48:25.740 to divorce and leave their husbands and technology that allows them to do sex work from the comfort

01:48:31.100 of their own home men are so nice they literally built us like phones so you can be a whore at home

01:48:37.820 well i mean the first computer programmer was a woman but i think like to to kind of pivot from

01:48:43.420 this and go back to the original claim that i'm making what did she i think that this type of

01:48:47.020 behavior has existed for thousands of years especially among women who have narrowly defined

01:48:50.540 choices now sure you're right we film it online and the women are beholden to an agency behind

01:48:54.620 the scenes so but this is the thing that's always existed and so you can't claim that the rise has

01:48:58.220 come from feminism because previously it looks like entire industries dedicated to dividing

01:49:03.260 women based on the fact of whether they were concubines or royalty or peasants for example

01:49:07.580 you have like courtesans in imperial china who entertained scholars and emperors in flower houses

01:49:12.220 you have renaissance venice you have courtesans is fame they're relying on their sexual availability

01:49:16.460 you have france's ancien regime uh with like madame de pompadour like a super famous example

01:49:21.500 of like a lily phillips of the ancien regime okay who wielded this political influence through sex

01:49:26.640 so i think it makes no sense to make the argument that these were a product of feminism when it's

01:49:31.300 a thousand of years more often happening thousands of years ago like at a higher i don't really care

01:49:36.760 to be honest like i i think there's always been sex workers if there's more or less now it's

01:49:41.460 definitely more out in the open now and i would say feminism made that more like them able to

01:49:46.580 function in society well you just said it's phones so is it feminism or is it phones well i'd say

01:49:51.080 both um but the you know it's interesting you said the first female programmer um was a woman

01:49:57.480 women care about titles men care about accomplishment so it's kind of interesting

01:50:03.840 because whenever it's always like that's not true it's yeah well then you would have said

01:50:07.440 think about when women were allowed to receive noble peace prizes or when women were allowed to

01:50:10.960 receive certain awards and like filmmaking and stuff we've had to carve out like by forcefully

01:50:15.200 fighting for it you know it's so funny to even be granted an award you know it's so funny do you

01:50:20.000 know it's so funny you just brought up awards too like men don't care about awards women do so

01:50:24.480 it's so funny can we be real it's so funny you brought that and don't care about achieving

01:50:29.360 things in society and being given credit for it i thought you spent all day complaining online

01:50:33.280 about the fact that yeah men are never given enough credit for their achievements well yeah

01:50:37.200 but that notice how it's me complaining a woman it's like on brand oh okay and your audience of

01:50:43.680 men do you know what do you know what's interesting though like the first female

01:50:47.840 programmer you're talking about she never built a computer she just wrote about the concept

01:50:54.240 that's it a computer program ada ada lovelace you build the computer a computer programmer

01:51:00.960 means you write the code so yeah ada like definitely that's who you're talking about

01:51:04.960 right ada lovelace yeah she never built a computer she just wrote about the concept

01:51:10.080 yeah it's like much harder to invent code than it is to build i doubt it this women always want

01:51:15.440 credit okay um you just have it right like it's not necessarily something that we're begging for

01:51:22.480 like if the credit's there then like it's just there well then then why do you have to beg for

01:51:27.600 it like that's that's always i'm just saying that's that's what like feminism is it's you guys

01:51:32.800 like saying give us more credit but if you were that good we would just see it you wouldn't have

01:51:37.200 to beg for it i don't know that's true it is true how do you how do you how do you evidence that

01:51:44.880 um i know pretty productive men not so much women okay so we're back to the start your evidence is

01:51:53.200 i know a guy well i could give a public example like um for example donald trump i i'm going to

01:51:59.200 use right-leaning ones because i like them obviously um he's just productive he doesn't

01:52:04.080 have to go around saying he's productive he just is elon musk saying donald trump doesn't have to

01:52:09.040 go around saying he's productive donald trump says he's the most productive man in the history of

01:52:14.000 america donald trump's favorite president is himself he's the best president his entire press

01:52:22.560 I think women debating is just endless nagging. Sorry. I think you mean well.

01:52:29.920 It's the weirdest example to bring up when you think about someone who's not self-aggrandizing.

01:52:33.840 Okay. Well, that's the two hours. I did enjoy this. I think you're a nice girl. So I did enjoy

01:52:41.840 this. And if you would like, you're welcome to come back on the show and I want to argue some

01:52:45.760 more. Would you like to come back or are you traumatized? No, I'm not traumatized. I thought

01:52:50.960 your comments would be much worse all right i mean i thought your super chats no i think you know i

01:52:57.440 think a lot of my stuff isn't as i i don't really care about the sex work though if it was more now

01:53:03.120 or then be a hooker you know i don't care anymore i mean they don't really call it the youngest

01:53:08.720 profession in the world do they no they've done it forever well do you have any final thoughts

01:53:14.640 can they find you anywhere? Yeah, my final thoughts are, I mean, if you want to send me

01:53:21.440 some hate comments or mass report my account, then you can find me at Blonde Praxis on TikTok.

01:53:25.920 And I think that Pearl should maybe think about the fact that some of her views are actually less

01:53:31.040 progressive than organizations like the Taliban. Potentially, we should think about the implications

01:53:37.840 of that, right? Because I was going through some quotes from the Taliban Minister of Justice,

01:53:42.160 for example, who was speaking about how like women wanting to work may cause them to commit

01:53:46.540 suicide or like if a woman wants to work away from her home and with men, then that's like

01:53:50.400 against their culture. And I think that insofar as Pearl would agree with that, she's aligning

01:53:55.280 herself with like somebody in cities. I think women should work. I don't have a problem with

01:53:59.820 women working. I don't, I actually, I would love to, I would love to see, I would love to see more

01:54:05.320 women work actually. I think we're pretty lazy. We've got to work the oil rigs and we've got to

01:54:10.120 raise our kids. No, seriously. I would love to see women on the oil rigs. So, okay. Next week

01:54:16.900 at the oil rig, Pearl. We can, we can go. All right. Thanks for, thanks for coming on. I do

01:54:22.600 appreciate a good back and forth. Um, anyways, guys, thank you so much for watching tonight.

01:54:29.420 Let me know what you guys think in the comments. Um, and if you, if you have a topic you want us

01:54:35.040 to debate next time, we, you know, put it in the comments and we'll set it up like the video. So

Pearl - August 05, 2025

Tilly MiddleHurst ｜ The Sitdown

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