PJ The Belt - May 15, 2026


Alberta Just OUTPLAYED Carney - Calling Referendum Anyway!


Episode Stats


Length

13 minutes

Words per minute

208.56142

Word count

2,756

Sentence count

93


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Alberta s premier, Rachel Notley, and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announce a landmark agreement with the federal government on the West Coast oil pipeline project. They also discuss the recent Supreme Court of Canada ruling allowing a referendum on separation from Canada.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 Hi Premier, Matt's case, the Globe and Mail.
00:00:02.700 So the federal government in Alberta have both talked about the need for investor confidence to get a private proponent to build a West Coast pipeline.
00:00:10.000 At the same time, Alberta is pursuing an appeal in pursuit of having the courts allow a vote to break apart the country and your government refuses to rule out, using its power to call in an independence referendum.
00:00:19.720 How do you square fighting for a secession question while providing investor confidence?
00:00:24.680 That's what I think we have to understand, that a single judge appointed by Justin Trudeau can't override what 700,000 people in this province have said they want.
00:00:37.120 Well, good afternoon, everyone. This is a good day for Alberta and a good day for Canada.
00:00:43.000 The last 10 years have been an extremely difficult time for hundreds of thousands of Albertans and their families whose livelihoods depend on a strong and growing Alberta oil and gas industry.
00:00:51.240 but today we're turning a corner. As I announced with the Prime Minister earlier this morning,
00:00:55.500 I am thrilled to share that the agreement we signed today clearly sets out a pathway to the
00:00:59.380 construction of a new oil pipeline to Asian markets, commencing as early as September 1st,
00:01:04.600 2027. The proposed West Coast oil pipeline would transport more than 1 million barrels of oil per
00:01:09.940 day. This landmark agreement builds on the collaboration between the federal and provincial
00:01:14.000 governments following the signing of the Alberta-Canada Energy Agreement, which was signed
00:01:18.280 in november of 2025 thank you and for the media i'm happy to take your questions and we'll go into
00:01:24.120 our media q a now we'll be taking one question and one follow-up and please state your name and
00:01:28.840 outlet before asking your question we'll start off at the mics before going on to the phone lines
00:01:33.160 and we'll go to our first at the mic go ahead and ask a question hi premier uh matt's case the
00:01:37.560 global mail uh so the federal government in alberta have both talked about the need for
00:01:41.560 investor confidence to get a private proponent to build a west coast pipeline at the same time
00:01:46.200 Alberta's pursuing an appeal in pursuit of having the courts allow a vote to
00:01:49.020 break apart the country and your government refuses to rule out using
00:01:52.800 its power to call an independence referendum. How do you square fighting
00:01:56.820 for a secession question while providing investor confidence?
00:01:59.880 Look I mean I support sovereignty within the United Canada. That means something.
00:02:03.240 That means Alberta should stay a part of Canada and continue to pursue and
00:02:06.360 support and enshrine our constitutionally in invested rights and
00:02:11.220 also make sure that the federal government respects them. That's what
00:02:13.200 days about it's it's not just saying this is the way the federal government works so we just have
00:02:18.440 to accept it it's saying you know what the country can work better and it works better when we
00:02:22.980 respect our equal areas of jurisdiction and we find areas of overlap that's what i'm i've been
00:02:27.240 doing since november is what i will keep on doing every single day to convince albertans that canada
00:02:32.280 can work and it will work and it is working in the best interest not only of us but also of canada
00:02:36.140 the issue regarding the court judgment and i have to say there's sort of two judgments that came out
00:02:40.500 At about the same time, one judgment was saying, was against the Citizens Initiative Act altogether, saying it shouldn't proceed because all questions that could potentially be asked by citizens would be deemed in need of some kind of consent.
00:02:59.620 And that was rejected.
00:03:01.240 So that one came out because it was overly broad.
00:03:03.760 So then it was followed up by this one that seems to put a requirement on citizens' initiative to do a duty of consultation.
00:03:10.980 And quite frankly, I don't even know how that would be possible.
00:03:12.760 How are citizens who want to put a petition question forward supposed to comply with that?
00:03:17.080 That effectively negates the Citizen Initiative Act.
00:03:19.660 That's why I've said it's anti-democratic and we think it's an error in law.
00:03:23.000 So we want to preserve the right of citizens to be able to have broad latitude to ask these questions on whatever topic they choose.
00:03:31.600 And we will have to have a meeting with caucus and cabinet to figure out the particulars of the one that has been struck down.
00:03:37.600 But the judgment itself has much, much broader implications for our citizens' initiative process.
00:03:44.060 And we think that's the reason it needs to be challenged.
00:03:46.380 Do you think, though, that you can get a private proponent behind a pipeline if there is a referendum on separation hanging over Alberta for who knows how long?
00:03:53.940 Well, I think that what we need to do is make sure that the separatist sentiment is not as high as it has been in the last year.
00:04:00.920 When the Liberals got elected, separatist sentiment went up to 42%.
00:04:04.620 In our most recent polling, we've seen that it's somewhere between 33% and 35%, so it's coming down.
00:04:10.980 Historically, it's been under 20%.
00:04:12.700 That's where I'd like it to be again.
00:04:14.020 I'd like for us to have Albertans feel such confidence that Canada is working for them,
00:04:18.900 that that separatist sentiment goes back to historically low levels.
00:04:23.080 We're not quite there yet.
00:04:23.880 There's a few more things that we need to do, but I think these kinds of agreements help to get us there,
00:04:27.820 and that's what I need to work towards.
00:04:29.860 So at the moment, I think that we have a pretty good deal that we're going to be able to celebrate.
00:04:35.280 I think this will go a long way towards demonstrating that the new Prime Minister
00:04:38.780 approaches the issue of cooperative federalism in a very different way
00:04:42.260 than the previous Prime Minister has for the last 10 years.
00:04:44.640 Now, it may not be the deciding factor for everyone,
00:04:47.420 but it's going to, I believe, convince a few more people that Canada is worth fighting for
00:04:51.180 and it's worth working towards.
00:04:52.380 Thank you, Matt. We're going to have to go to our next question. We're tight today.
00:04:55.460 Okay, and do you think if Ottawa had approved a pipeline years ago,
00:04:58.560 the independence movement would be where it's at now in terms of momentum well i can tell as i
00:05:02.800 said i mean it's it's it's vitally important that this deal was signed because i think there's a
00:05:08.000 number of decisions the federal government made that ended up eroding confidence and it's not
00:05:12.720 it's not just about um getting a pipeline built it was that they took away aspirationally of us
00:05:19.360 ever getting another pipeline to be built ever again because we do have trans mountain pipeline
00:05:24.160 We do have coastal gas link, which is expanding in natural gas, but essentially, staring into
00:05:29.260 a future where not only we would never be able to build another pipeline, but we'd have
00:05:33.200 to start shutting in our existing production, which is what several independent consultant
00:05:37.680 reports said, by 2 million barrels a day by 2035.
00:05:40.900 And all of the impact that would have on our finances, on our taxes, on our ability to
00:05:44.720 pay for services, it was that combination of packages.
00:05:47.960 Same thing with the net zero power regs.
00:05:50.180 That may, in fact, be the biggest thing that came out of our early MOU.
00:05:53.980 And the announcement you saw the Prime Minister make earlier in the week,
00:05:57.780 that natural gas, yes, has to be part of our electricity grid
00:06:00.780 in order to be able to provide stability.
00:06:02.920 90% of our daily use of power typically comes from natural gas.
00:06:07.300 And we've already paid billions of dollars to switch from coal.
00:06:11.840 We know that solar, wind, and batteries are not able to continue fueling our continued growth.
00:06:16.960 So that, to me, having that limitation was also causing some of the frustration.
00:06:22.720 Frankly, I've also mentioned to the Prime Minister, people are frustrated at immigration policy that took place under his predecessor.
00:06:28.540 I'm glad to see that he's making some changes there.
00:06:30.760 And a lot of the separatist movement is being fueled by those who are law-abiding gun owners who are going to be made criminals by the existing federal firearms bans on guns that come into effect in October.
00:06:41.280 So I think that this will help a lot towards a group of folks who were disaffected because of economic issues.
00:06:48.400 I think some of the changes on immigration that we're going to be proposing in the fall will also help address some of the concerns.
00:06:54.500 But I still think there's some other outstanding issues, and in particular the gun issue I think is a big one.
00:06:58.500 Thanks, David. And we'll go to our next question.
00:07:00.860 Hey, Tim with CTV.
00:07:03.120 Yesterday you were chatting about the court ruling, the judge's ruling,
00:07:06.840 and you kind of hinted that maybe the notwithstanding clause was on the table here.
00:07:10.380 constitutional lawyers say that's you know out of the question um so number one why bring it up
00:07:16.160 and number two what what are kind of your options if you do appeal and you lose well the constitution
00:07:21.100 does give um rights to provinces and to um uh the federal government and i think that there's some
00:07:27.620 grounds to be able to to challenge the the court decision on this in particular um because my
00:07:32.620 concern is that it's an over read and an overreach on the issue of duty to consult duty to consult
00:07:38.480 as i understand it has been project specific it's you have a particular project it has particular
00:07:43.340 impact on uh the adjacent bands when it comes to their hunting uh fishing and trapping rights
00:07:48.140 maybe use of water and so there's a very defined project that you have to do and you have a defined
00:07:52.840 duty to consult i have no idea how the court would expect a citizens group to be able to meet the
00:07:58.340 duty to consult that was just made up in in that judgment and so that's why it needs to be
00:08:02.540 challenged is because otherwise it could potentially potentially negate our citizens
00:08:07.040 Initiative Act, and it could be a reach-in of the court on every single bill that we could ever pass
00:08:12.800 that could ever possibly have an impact on First Nations. And that is a pretty dramatic curtailment
00:08:17.480 of provincial rights under the Constitution. So I think I would encourage you to look at it more
00:08:22.020 broadly, that when these court decisions are left unappealed, it can lead to consequences like we
00:08:29.800 see in British Columbia, where they thought that they were passing just statements of intent and
00:08:35.200 cooperation, and now their entire property rights and development regime is under uncertainty
00:08:40.840 because of court decisions. So we don't want to go down that path in Alberta. We think the court
00:08:44.540 is overreached here. We think they've made an undemocratic decision that isn't valid in law,
00:08:49.220 that's an error in law, and that's why we're going to challenge it.
00:08:52.460 You've kind of downplayed the role of the courts here. I just want to know at what points,
00:08:56.140 what ruling needs to come down, what appeal needs to be denied before you say that's enough,
00:09:00.540 or do we reach a point where you say, no, I'm ignoring this and this referendum can go forward?
00:09:04.160 Well, Supreme Courts, we honour those rulings, and that's what I think we have to understand,
00:09:11.020 that a single judge appointed by Justin Trudeau can't override what 700,000 people in this province have said they want.
00:09:17.780 I think that if you want to be a democratic government and run a democratic province,
00:09:22.320 there has to be some deference of the court to the democratic process.
00:09:25.420 I just don't simply believe that an unelected judge should be able to run roughshod over all of these democratic provisions
00:09:34.060 especially when we've been very clear as a legislature that we wanted the Citizen Initiative Act to be very permissive.
00:09:39.800 We understand that if it comes to a point of implementation, there's a duty on us as government to make sure that aboriginal rights are respected.
00:09:48.300 But it would be impossible for a citizen group to be able to meet that standard.
00:09:52.760 And so that's why we think it needs to be challenged.
00:09:54.380 A few weeks ago, you ruled out the option of using the Referendum Act to yourself as a government put the independence question on the ballot for October 19th.
00:10:05.180 That was before the Justice Leonard ruling.
00:10:08.500 Now we have Jeffrey Rath and Mitch Sylvester saying that you need to do this if you're interested in your own political self-preservation to stay on the job.
00:10:16.960 Can you please walk us through your thoughts on, at this point, the downsides and upsides of the Alberta government putting forth a referendum act question itself on independence?
00:10:29.780 Well, I have to have that conversation first with my caucus and cabinet.
00:10:33.060 And there is a committee that is assessing the Forever Canada petition right now.
00:10:39.780 So it's a bit premature for me to figure out what my caucus and cabinet might want to do.
00:10:44.400 Let's hear your thinking on this.
00:10:46.360 Well, again, my thinking is that a citizen should we should be very permissive and that citizens should have been allowed to put these questions forward.
00:10:54.480 And then depending on what the outcome is, that's when government acts.
00:10:57.200 And so we're still analyzing what the court judgment said.
00:11:00.000 As I mentioned, we are appealing it.
00:11:01.860 We're waiting for the committee to do their work.
00:11:03.800 And I'll be having a cabinet caucus meeting next week.
00:11:06.160 And so we'll be able to walk you through it at that time after I've talked to them.
00:11:09.540 And then you said a bit earlier how, you know, this agreement to the MOU as a whole, you know, it's not going to completely take out the separatist movement.
00:11:18.200 And yesterday the Prime Minister said, he was asked, you know, will a pipeline restore or kind of maintain national unity?
00:11:24.620 Or was he building one to maintain national unity? And he said no.
00:11:28.020 My question for you is, do you think that Alberta forever now will just actually have
00:11:31.880 kind of like this hardcore group of separatists, and there's really nothing at all
00:11:36.760 that anyone, like any elected official can actually do to, you know, restore their faith, as you say?
00:11:42.960 Well, I think that what people should take from the process that the Prime Minister and I went
00:11:47.760 through over the last six months is that that's how cooperative federalism should work,
00:11:52.340 is that if you have a disagreement on policy about how you should proceed,
00:11:55.900 and especially if it's one that enters into a provincial jurisdiction or significantly impacts
00:12:01.520 our resource development. That shouldn't be done unilaterally as it was done for the past 10 years
00:12:07.280 with the previous Trudeau regime. I think what I saw over the past six months is a prime minister
00:12:13.620 who, maybe because he lived in Europe, understands cooperative federalism, understands that there's
00:12:18.100 certain things that you do at the central level and there's certain things that you've got to let
00:12:21.460 the province do and then there's other things that you got to get to a table and sort out
00:12:25.020 and I think that he even talked about cooperative federalism and I think this is a demonstration of
00:12:30.740 that so what I would expect is that as these issues arise I hope there's not gonna be a whole
00:12:35.200 lot more of them I'd mentioned a couple that are still causing some friction but as those issues
00:12:40.420 arise I would expect just from what I've seen out of the prime minister that that's how we would
00:12:43.800 deal with them and I think that's what Canadians would expect I think that's what Albertans expect
00:12:47.160 I think other provincial premiers appreciate that kind of approach, and I just wish that it hadn't got to this point.
00:12:53.220 I just wish that this is the way that cooperative federalism had worked for the previous 10 years,
00:12:56.860 because we might not have seen that anger and frustration and despair build up the way it did.
00:13:03.280 So we're trying to win people back decision by decision to understanding that the country can work,
00:13:08.920 and I think this is a good day for us to have done that.
00:13:11.080 It's a good day for Alberta, and it's a good day for Canada.