Playing to Win - 027 - From Lawyer to Co-Founding Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy Clinics

00:00:00.000 all right gents welcome to another episode of the playing to win series number 27 i'm joined by my

00:00:08.860 friend ronan levy how you doing brother i'm doing well man good to see you in a long time

00:00:13.480 been a while since we've connected uh we've known each other for quite a few years so let me just do

00:00:19.540 a quick little intro on um your bio here to introduce you because i just pasted your description

00:00:25.660 i know a lot of people don't read it but an entrepreneur and a visionary ronan is one of

00:00:29.200 the founders of field trip which is what we'll be talking about quite a bit in this broadcast uh

00:00:34.480 concurrent with his work at field trip he's a partner at grass fed ventures a venture capital

00:00:38.400 and advisory firm focused on the cannabis and biotech industries is a chief strategy officer

00:00:43.860 a member of the board of directors for trait biosciences a leading biotech company in the

00:00:48.440 hemp and cannabis industries and prior to current roles ronan along with joseph hannon and ryan

00:00:54.960 co-founded canadian cannabis clinics uh which i'm going to tell you about an interesting story and

00:00:59.440 an opportunity that i missed out on uh in cannabis rx the latter of which was acquired by aurora

00:01:05.120 cannabis incorporated new york stock exchange uh ticker acb in 2016 after which he served as senior

00:01:12.680 vice president business and corporate affairs for aurora a lawyer by training royer sorry ronan started his

00:01:18.760 career as corporate lawyer at blake castles and grayden and legal counsel at ctv globe media holds a

00:01:25.360 jurist doctor and a bachelor of commerce degree both at the university of toronto what's up brother

00:01:30.940 how much that's a mouthful i gotta shorten that down that's for sure you gotta you gotta way more

00:01:37.160 impressive bio than i do i'll tell you that so i don't know about that but i appreciate the compliment

00:01:42.740 so um let's kind of do like a little bit of a batman origin story because i'd like to introduce

00:01:48.340 a lot of the characters that i put on this playing to win series and we didn't have a lot of time to

00:01:52.400 talk ronan and i before kind of leaning up to this because we're texting on some other stuff that we're

00:01:56.420 working on together but um i thought it would be a great fit for him because of the way that he lives

00:02:02.600 his life i've often talked to you guys about playing to win versus playing not to lose um did you ever

00:02:07.980 do any work with um fireweed and colin colt color no i haven't yeah no so colin introduced us when he

00:02:16.380 was tearing us apart um at a retreat that i was at with a bunch of guys from eo who you'd all know

00:02:21.940 excuse me um you know this concept of of in life you either play to win or you can play not to lose

00:02:28.540 and it might sound like the same thing but they're two very different behaviors um so i like to bring

00:02:32.900 guys onto this um playlist onto this stream to really talk about how they play to win at life

00:02:37.640 and um you're you're just one of those top shelf guys that that that just seems to knock it out of

00:02:43.540 the park one one venture after the other um appreciate that i i first met you at an eo event

00:02:50.460 i don't know when it was it must have been like 2011 or 12 i think it was at the brickworks or

00:02:55.060 something like that and you were talking about how do you how do you utilize lawyers better in your

00:02:59.140 business yeah yeah i think that's i remember that i don't remember much these days but i do remember

00:03:04.020 that uh that session yeah and um one of the big takeaways that i got from that which i've shared

00:03:09.700 with a few friends since was a lot of a lot of what happens in business is you'll get these notices

00:03:15.180 in the mail from you know another company another organization into whatever that wants you to change

00:03:20.960 your behavior they want to force you to change what it is that you're doing usually in their interest

00:03:25.240 but they don't want to go so far to register a claim in court and you know force you to do it

00:03:30.000 through uh you know the court system so they try to scare you with a letter and one of the things

00:03:34.320 that i learned from you that day which i've used quite a few times and it's and it saved me money

00:03:37.940 probably at least six out of seven times you just run it through the shredder yeah yeah exactly right

00:03:44.600 you basically said look if it's not got a registered claim to it don't waste your time because they're

00:03:49.000 not serious about it don't even respond right yeah that's exactly it's it's uh it's a philosophy i mean

00:03:54.240 like listen i had to learn it i'm a lawyer by training um so and and it's interesting i mean the way you

00:03:59.640 describe it as like playing to win versus playing not to lose it's like most lawyers i'd say 95 if

00:04:06.020 not more are playing not to lose they're trying to minimize risk avoid you know uh confrontation

00:04:12.140 try and settle things as quickly as and easily as possible which certainly there's rationale for in

00:04:18.260 certain circumstances but um you know if you're starting from that position you're always starting

00:04:22.920 from a back foot right so always go in aggressive like the most important thing especially when it

00:04:29.180 comes to the law is that there's the letters of the law of what you can and cannot do according to

00:04:33.620 you know whatever's been legislated but the truth is is we don't live in a world where if you break the

00:04:38.420 law you're immediately penalized right and maybe we'll get to that one day maybe we'll live and live

00:04:43.340 in minority report but in the meantime we live in a world where there's a lot of gray area between

00:04:48.320 you know how the law is written and how the law gets enforced or how the rules get enforced doesn't

00:04:54.320 necessarily mean to be a law and if you're willing to play within the boundaries of those two lines

00:05:01.520 there's a lot of opportunity to really do cool things grow businesses take opportunities you know

00:05:09.040 position yourself for success as opposed to just trying to avoid a fight yeah um really intelligent

00:05:16.680 approach to dealing with business strategies like how is how is your legal training like operating as a

00:05:22.180 lawyer affected you as a entrepreneur because i mean you think and act a lot differently than a lot of

00:05:28.340 lawyers that i know and you think and act a lot differently when it comes to your approach to life

00:05:31.920 and business when it comes to business too like do you see it as an advantage obviously or yeah i do

00:05:38.060 i mean i think being a lawyer has going to law school i don't think taught me anything it taught me

00:05:43.260 you know it's a good rigorous exercise was like going to the gym and like being forced to do a lot of

00:05:47.280 mental exercises i don't think it equipped me at all to to become a lawyer um but what it did show

00:05:53.540 me is you know the inside of the beast to some degree understanding the mentality of lawyers and

00:05:58.520 how they think and how they approach life i mean most people go to law school because it's a nice

00:06:02.840 safe conservative path to make a good living right you're smart you're capable but you don't want to

00:06:08.140 take risks on life um and and so you go to law school by and large and then listen a lot there are some

00:06:13.500 happy lawyers i would say most lawyers are not terribly enthused with their careers but you know

00:06:18.540 it's a it's a comfortable path and for some people that's fine you know if that's the path you want

00:06:22.840 to go on um but you know there is typically a personality around most lawyers and so when you

00:06:29.780 realize that their approach is going to be pretty consistent which is follow the rules do it the right

00:06:35.880 way follow the process uh it gives you a great opportunity to say like well i i know what that person's

00:06:41.220 going to do you know it comes down to sort of just basic game theory which is if you can anticipate

00:06:45.180 the actions of the other party then you can always be two steps ahead and so because most lawyers are

00:06:49.660 fairly predictable in their approach to it um you know you can you can take advantage of that and

00:06:55.200 and in the same token it doesn't have to be lawyers and most regulators as well uh tend to follow a

00:07:00.900 given path so if you're willing to take on some degree of regulatory or legal risk um which most

00:07:07.900 entrepreneurs are doing you know most people think of it oh my god you're breaking the law but a

00:07:11.420 perfect example probably the best example of a company that was willing to operate outside of the

00:07:17.520 law and to great success is uber you know they operated globally in violation of all sorts of

00:07:23.220 municipal regulations knowing that uh for a while they'd get away with it and then eventually the

00:07:28.900 regulators would push back but by the time that happened they would have developed enough of a fan

00:07:34.640 base enough of a customer base that they'd have a position of strength to negotiate to you know

00:07:39.660 create a world or a paradigm that may not be ideally suited for their business model uh but certainly a

00:07:45.340 lot better than what existed before they went into that given market um and and so that's the kind of

00:07:50.140 mindset and i think going to law school and and understanding that environment has helped me see

00:07:56.340 opportunities in that respect um i want to take you back to your uh position as legal counsel at

00:08:03.900 ctv globe media because i think that's where like that was a parent company for that dating site

00:08:08.660 no that was avid life media uh that was the parent company ctv was not part of it yeah okay so um

00:08:15.480 yeah so you're involved in avid life media sorry um yeah you told a few stories to us um around your

00:08:22.320 time there what did avid life media manage what was that dating site all about yeah i mean i i don't

00:08:29.100 openly talk about that right now so i'll speak vaguely about it um but um you know we we operated

00:08:34.800 a bunch of dating sites often in in various uh unique uh niches or or uh um particular communities

00:08:43.460 and uh you know they were very successful at creating awareness uh through taking cheeky approaches

00:08:51.060 to to marketing and pr uh and recognizing that there are opportunities um to do things that would

00:08:58.160 create a pr opportunity um far greater than the advertising so one time we offered to um you know

00:09:05.780 wrap a street car in a banner um or uh around the street car uh for one of our sites and uh we knew

00:09:15.500 that initially they'd probably get rejected but to our surprise uh they actually said yes and so we

00:09:20.340 looked at it and we said well we could either pay the 25 000 or whatever it was to wrap the street car

00:09:27.360 in in this particular advertisement or we could leak it to the media because that would be just juicy

00:09:32.540 enough for the media to say like hey this company is now wrapping a street car is the ttc actually okay

00:09:37.140 with it and get much more awareness and publicity uh for free than paying the 25 000 or you know one time

00:09:45.020 we uh we're we were there was a well-known actor uh who had voiced advertisements that most of you

00:09:52.660 probably heard of this was probably 10 or 11 years ago um but it turned out the the actual ad you

00:09:59.220 heard uh was this particular actor's voice um but what happened is the company who was making the ad

00:10:05.700 um had initially approached this actor who wanted some obscene amount of money just to audition for

00:10:10.680 the part um and so that company decided to be like okay well we'll find someone who sounds like you

00:10:16.820 and record the ad anyway because we don't want to pay just to have you audition um and so they

00:10:21.620 prepared the ad with this sound alike's voice and and sort of submitted it to the actor and said listen

00:10:26.700 you can do it or we're going to go forward with this and the actor said okay i'll do it and they came

00:10:30.540 to a much more reasonable approach we subsequently found out about it uh and so in the same kind of

00:10:36.660 context the same kind of mindset um we got the sound alike we recorded an ad you know started playing

00:10:43.180 it on the on the radio in the u.s knowing that the following would happen people would start saying

00:10:48.380 like hey is this actor doing an ad for this particular dating site uh which would probably

00:10:54.260 be shocking to him most people's sensibilities um and we did and there's a whole bunch of pr that

00:10:59.880 followed and then inevitably we're expecting a letter from his lawyers which we got saying hey you're

00:11:05.540 inappropriately using this actor's persona please stop and so we did you know and we got millions of

00:11:11.660 dollars worth of free publicity and pr uh with no consequence because we knew the lawyer letter

00:11:16.760 would come we would stop and then it just doesn't make sense for people to litigate beyond that um

00:11:21.860 because it's too expensive there's no guarantees in litigation and and so it was uh it was a great

00:11:27.000 cheeky opportunity to create some awareness now you know with hindsight at the time it seemed like a

00:11:32.460 great idea in hindsight you know i'm kind of come to the place where it's probably not fair or

00:11:37.820 appropriate to use someone's identity in that way to benefit yourself um but these are just examples

00:11:44.080 of things you can do to um you know push boundaries or another good example is we would always offer to

00:11:50.100 sponsor you know uh major events you know and then uh we would get rejected um or we would just leak

00:11:57.740 the fact that we're putting in an offer to to sponsor a major event um to the media and then you'd see

00:12:03.680 it in the news the next day that this dating site is uh offering to sponsor the the super bowl or the

00:12:09.540 world cup or whatever it was um and again knowing that we were taking risks we were wading into

00:12:15.880 regulatory gray zones but there was really no consequences that would come back to bite us at

00:12:21.340 any point so we took advantage of those opportunities yeah and like it's starting to sound a lot like what

00:12:27.720 ryan halliday did with um you know with his career with that clothing company i can't remember what it

00:12:31.980 was i think was american american apparel yeah apparently yeah yeah um yeah very very clever

00:12:36.460 marketing strategy and you kind of have to i mean when you're getting started in business and you

00:12:42.120 don't have a network you don't have connections i mean you kind of have to be more innovative than

00:12:46.320 any of your competitors if if you want to get a foothold in it um and you've and you've done that

00:12:52.480 time and time and time again um to kind of share that story about uh cannabis clinics i'm sorry

00:12:59.100 canadian cannabis clinics and canvas rx um i remember you came over to my office with your

00:13:03.820 partner at the time with a investment to um put some money into that when you guys were just starting

00:13:09.020 to raise your uh first first rounds of funding and it was the same week that i had another lawyer come

00:13:14.220 into my office try to buy my book of business for cents and a dollar i think you know who i'm talking

00:13:17.780 about yeah but um um you know i looked at that i was like dude they're not going to approve this man

00:13:24.600 they're not going to legalize weed in canada that's not happening here we are in 2020 it's like fully

00:13:31.220 legal you can buy whatever you want from like the government is now the drug dealer yeah um you know

00:13:36.380 you came up with this concept of um kind of kind of cracking the legislative code that was coming

00:13:42.320 through the pipelines for the approval for additional use um and i mean embarrass me here

00:13:50.700 but i know all the information is public but obviously i passed on the opportunity as an early

00:13:55.460 investor and um you know you sold to a much larger corporation aurora cannabis how much did i lose out

00:14:02.520 on i mean you must have walked away with a triple quadruple even larger digit multiple right yeah i mean

00:14:10.160 i'm not so good at doing the math in my head but um you would have invested at a six million dollar

00:14:16.580 valuation i think you were talking about maybe investing let's say a hundred grand yeah and a

00:14:21.040 six million dollar valuation we sold the company for a purchase price of 37 million dollars so there's

00:14:28.380 a six bagger right there but the thing was is that a big chunk of the purchase price was paid in aurora stock

00:14:34.420 at 40 cents uh over the next two years aurora went from 40 cents to 16 dollars so with that that's another

00:14:41.380 20 bagger on top of that so you're you know you're 100 grand could have turned into a lot of money

00:14:48.680 is is what it well down to and in that case you know to be fair it wasn't that i was uh

00:14:55.460 i i didn't it wasn't a legal kind of analysis i just kind of saw where the the trend line was pointing

00:15:02.420 which was cannabis was becoming ubiquitous you know they had essentially created a program that

00:15:07.360 were creating these large corporations growing cannabis you know once you create that kind of

00:15:11.920 capital markets dynamic um it's going to be hard to turn back the engine uh that that was the insight

00:15:18.420 there i think you know one of my and it has nothing to do with being a lawyer i just i think i've been

00:15:23.780 gifted with an ability to see where trend lines are going by and large in the future um and uh getting

00:15:29.900 in front of that and certainly you know uh from cannabis to now field trip that's one of those

00:15:35.080 things which was this is going to happen you know most people don't realize it was going to happen and

00:15:39.980 for a long time i wasn't convinced but then certain things fell into place and now like

00:15:44.080 you know i guess that was six years ago we met in your office and and we're on the cusp of legalizing

00:15:50.460 cannabis and and you know six years later uh we're on the cusp of legalizing psychedelics uh as well

00:15:56.320 um you know which is crazy i seven years ago i never would have guessed we'd be sitting in this

00:16:01.600 position but no i was dude i was sitting there going this is this is not i i just can't see this

00:16:06.920 happening i just can't see them allowing you know the canadian populations just you know recreationally

00:16:12.940 i mean like even at the time you're talking about medicinal use which which had uh you know proven

00:16:18.700 peer reviewed benefits um you know it existed right so and then it was kind of supposed to lean

00:16:26.180 into um recreational use and that of course happened very quickly soon after so um yeah bravo i mean

00:16:33.460 like you you know you you uh you know you took a stake in the industry you saw a trend coming and it

00:16:40.220 ended up working out for you i mean um had i had i invested that hundred grand uh at that time i could

00:16:46.840 have probably bought a ferrari la ferrari a porsche 918 uh maybe the mclaren p1 and a bugatti vayron just

00:16:55.420 kind of top it all off instead of the one r8 that i've got right now but you know um i didn't have a

00:17:00.460 crystal ball to appear into the future none of us do it's just one of those things that you have to

00:17:03.660 take uh take a stab at in life and at that time you were you were playing hard to win and it was a bit

00:17:09.180 of a gamble but it you know it paid off big time for you um you know thankfully with with the

00:17:14.980 organizations and some of the guys that you know we've all talked to and um you know been at men's

00:17:21.100 retreats and groups with i also made some subsequent investments that still caught like

00:17:25.820 the top end of the trend um and made some money there as well but uh talk a little bit more about

00:17:31.300 the um new business that you're running uh field trip psychedelics um i know that it's been a couple

00:17:37.500 years in uh full disclosure i am an investor i didn't i didn't become stupid this time and passed

00:17:42.380 up on it so i've gotten in on rounds of funding but talk a little bit more to the audience about what

00:17:47.740 what field trip is and what it plans to do and what's all happening there yeah i'll kind of tell

00:17:53.240 the narrative so we started canadian cannabis clinics and canvas rx we sold that to aurora in

00:17:58.420 2016 uh helped aurora grow into one of the largest cannabis producers globally uh over the next couple

00:18:05.020 of years but by the middle of 2018 we kind of saw the writing on the wall that the cannabis industry

00:18:11.240 had become quite inflated and is probably going to go through a bumpy period and and our earnouts

00:18:17.540 through uh the sale of our business had been met so there wasn't a whole lot of rationale for us to

00:18:22.740 stick around so we left and um started grass-fed ventures which was really just a an avenue to

00:18:28.520 lease an office and start making some strategic investments and doing some advisory work not

00:18:32.940 really knowing what we were planning to do and um much like the initiation of canadian cannabis

00:18:39.960 clinics and canvas rx back then what happened was i was working with uh joseph and the guys who

00:18:45.200 eventually had partners but i was a lawyer i was i mean i i've always been fairly activist as a lawyer

00:18:51.040 um in terms of being very involved in the business side of things but in this particular case i was

00:18:56.120 advising them also on you know what areas of of opportunity you know this was still very much the

00:19:01.840 tech bubble time to some degree uh startup mania was in full effect and i was trying to guide them

00:19:07.020 into different directions and then you know they um they after one meeting where we reviewed a whole

00:19:13.740 list of opportunities uh i was putting my coat on apparently i said all of the opportunities they

00:19:18.600 were considering were terrible i don't remember being so so brash but uh it's possible um you know

00:19:23.740 they said well there's this one other idea you know the laws around cannabis are changing and

00:19:27.600 there's an opportunity to do something with cannabis and they're like ah but it seems so sketchy

00:19:30.940 cannabis is so so sketchy and i was like guys you know i uh i'm a corporate lawyer which don't have

00:19:36.920 the best of reputations um i worked for this dating company the aforementioned dating company

00:19:41.680 uh and i had also started my first business which was a cash for gold business which also doesn't

00:19:46.240 have a greater reputation and i'm like if this is legal now you know cannabis is the best opportunity

00:19:51.180 i'm ever going to see you don't see a multi-billion if not trillion dollar industry go from black

00:19:55.900 market to perfectly legal almost overnight um you guys got to do something in this space and if

00:20:00.800 you don't i'm going to do so uh and so i cajoled them for a while and eventually we kind of all

00:20:05.460 joined forces and then that became canvas rx and canadian cannabis clinics um so fast forward to

00:20:11.540 middle of 2018 we just left aurora we've got grass-fed ventures going we're looking for new

00:20:15.740 opportunities uh joseph my business partner the ceo of field trip had a meeting with a woman named

00:20:21.620 judy bloomstock was trying to raise money for a pharma company that was doing new formulations around 0.98

00:20:26.460 psilocybin which is the active ingredient in magic mushrooms um and he comes out of that meeting and

00:20:31.700 he's like yeah this you know judy was looking to raise money for this you know but uh i don't know

00:20:36.980 like magic mushrooms really and i had that same kind of light bulb moment being like this is happening

00:20:41.900 and it's like i think so she pitched us on her idea but told us what else was happening around

00:20:47.820 psychedelic which i hadn't been advised of which was um you know uh peter teal had invested in compass

00:20:54.760 pathways which went public last week and is now worth 1.3 billion dollars michael pauland had

00:20:59.880 written his book how to change your mind which if you haven't read it you certainly should if you

00:21:03.960 have any interest in psychedelics and the emerging industry uh and maps had just been granted breakthrough

00:21:08.860 therapy designation so maps is doing a clinical trial looking at the use of mdma or or street drug

00:21:13.680 ecstasy more commonly known as um looking at ptsd and the results around that are just mind-blowing

00:21:19.680 you know psychedelics are infinitely more uh effective than current treatments and i'm like

00:21:24.580 we got to do something in this this is amazing and and what really inspired me at that time was

00:21:29.260 judy described a single psilocybin assisted psychotherapy session as being like 10 years

00:21:34.520 of therapy in a single session and i'm like this is something the world needs you know i've done a lot

00:21:38.680 of work on myself uh both from like emotional growth and meditation and therapy just for my own

00:21:44.840 purpose is to leave live a happier healthier you know more productive life and and so if you can

00:21:50.660 take all the work i've done over the last 15 years and shrink it into a couple of sessions that was

00:21:54.640 something that i thought was going to be huge and that the world really needed um and uh interestingly

00:22:00.440 at the time there are some online sites popping up that were openly selling psilocybin mushrooms in

00:22:05.280 canada which really surprised me but i think it's reflective of the kind of very liberal attitudes

00:22:10.260 towards uh at least low harm drugs like psilocybin and lsd um are reflected in canada interestingly and

00:22:18.100 it kind of fell under the radar and i'm surprised by it but i'm going to do my best to raise it just a

00:22:23.180 couple of weeks ago the crown attorney in canada gave a mandate to all crown prosecutors across canada

00:22:28.880 to not prosecute simple possession of drugs so we actually live in a world where you have

00:22:34.440 decriminalized possession uh in canada um no one's talking about it but that's a pretty interesting

00:22:40.000 evolution of um our society that possession of drugs is essentially no longer criminalized i mean

00:22:47.220 it's still technically illegal but if they don't enforce it going back to some of the first principles

00:22:51.300 we're talking about on this conversation you got to query whether it's actually still illegal or not

00:22:56.200 but anyway at that time we kind of looked at it we realized that psychedelics uh the research around

00:23:01.640 psychedelics was incredibly persuasive much more persuasive than you see around cannabis

00:23:05.400 and so we started thinking about how we build a business in this space you know it was it was hard

00:23:10.420 because unlike cannabis when we got into cannabis the laws had changed already they changed much more

00:23:15.240 rapidly after that but there was a legal business to be built with psychedelics the laws hadn't changed

00:23:20.340 and still hadn't changed but you know with uh some determination and the benefit of some time and

00:23:26.460 a lot of conversations with people like rick doblin and michael paulin and the folks at the

00:23:31.240 beckley foundation in the uk you know we kind of eventually formulated the initial skeleton of a

00:23:38.540 business model and um and that became field trip and so what field trip has become is the world's

00:23:44.300 first vertically integrated company in psychedelics and psychedelic assisted psychotherapy we're really

00:23:49.380 trying to um be at the forefront of the development and delivery of psychedelic therapies and that

00:23:55.620 involves building out a clinical infrastructure so right now we're in the process of building out

00:23:59.680 field trip health psychedelic hubs that will deliver psychedelic medicine um it's not typically known as

00:24:06.680 a psychedelic but it is actually a psychedelic molecule that ketamine which is legal and prescribable in

00:24:11.260 in north america um exists and can be used in psychedelic therapies and so our clinics rolling out right now

00:24:17.580 are providing ketamine assisted psychotherapy but the business rationale is really to position them such that

00:24:23.920 when mdma or psilocybin get legalized or approved we'll be right there and we can just turn on that

00:24:29.520 engine and certainly there's going to be a lot more interest i think in psilocybin and mdma than

00:24:33.100 than ketamine but that's actually quite shifting um but then we also decided to get actively involved

00:24:38.740 in cultivation of psilocybin producing mushrooms at least on the research side of things through a

00:24:43.340 partnership at the university of west indies uh where we're building the world's first research

00:24:47.980 facility studying psilocybin producing mushrooms as well as embarking on our own drug development

00:24:53.000 efforts through you know the classic fda health canada approval pathways with our first molecule

00:24:59.000 which is ft104 kind of unsexy name but what we did is we looked at the known still illicit psychedelic

00:25:06.920 molecules uh assessed if there are ways to improve them um to deliver differential or preferential

00:25:14.440 experiences uh and did some work with chemistry and then came up with ft104 and so that's in the early

00:25:21.140 stages of drug development as well and um so we've got ketamine approved for medicinal uses for

00:25:29.740 um psychotherapy treatment um how far away is psilocybin from the same sort of approval

00:25:34.900 i i should be clear just so everyone's talking on the same language ketamine is a is approved as an

00:25:41.200 anesthetic it was approved in the 1960s it's incredibly safe uh when used in the right therapeutic context

00:25:46.780 um for most people there are certain contraindications but it's quite safe and it's being and so even

00:25:52.560 though it's approved as an anesthetic it's being used been used uh off label as a treatment for

00:25:57.200 depression over the last five to ten years with great effect to the point where the the former

00:26:02.440 director of the national institute of mental health uh said that ketamine was the most promising

00:26:07.400 development in the treatment of depression in the last 50 years or something along those lines so

00:26:11.320 is that is that a um uh pharmaceutically manufactured chemical or is it from you know

00:26:16.780 like mushrooms like psilocybin is yeah no ketamine is a synthetic molecule so it doesn't exist in nature

00:26:22.200 um uh so yeah so it's it's legal and prescribable it's actually quite commonly prescribed if you have a

00:26:28.620 kid and your kid breaks your brain breaks a bone and goes to the emergency room uh often doctors will

00:26:34.860 give ketamine as an anesthetic to help manage the pain so that's kind of the safety profile associated

00:26:40.580 with ketamine uh but they found after giving ketamine which was used quite extensively in the

00:26:45.300 vietnam war actually uh that people reported that their mood significantly improved after having

00:26:50.180 ketamine after taking ketamine and and based on that anecdotal evidence a lot of research kind of

00:26:54.800 looked into are there mental health applications to ketamine um and that's really what's kind of

00:26:59.120 emerged over the last 10 years uh or so so it's it's perfectly legal and prescribable and quite

00:27:04.240 safe but the the real interest i think these days is in the classic psychedelics like psilocybin and

00:27:09.320 mdma um and you'll see legal access to these almost certainly um sometime in the next two to five

00:27:17.700 years uh and there's a number of different ways that that may happen uh the first is um mdma is

00:27:25.040 actually in a phase three clinical trials i was actually just speaking with rick doblin who is the

00:27:29.960 founder of founder of maps um which is a non-profit organization that's actually conducting these

00:27:35.300 clinical trials uh that have been approved by the fda uh and they're in phase three which means

00:27:39.800 they're in the last leg of getting approval to use mdma assisted psychotherapy for the treatment of

00:27:44.340 ptsd and the results that they're showing in other studies are just fantastic you know in their phase

00:27:49.080 two they saw that um 70 of people who had chronic severe ptsd within six months of a single i think

00:27:56.400 it's a single it may have been two but we'll say a single mdma assisted psychotherapy session

00:28:01.000 had total resolution of all symptoms basically they were cured of ptsd and generally their mental

00:28:06.800 health improved further over time because the experience not only helped them deal with their

00:28:11.560 ptsd it gave them the skills to deal with future traumas as well and process that more effectively

00:28:16.740 um and so their trial should be done uh i think they i think rick said that they expect the results

00:28:22.840 for the first leg of the trial at the end of this month um you'll probably see approval

00:28:28.000 uh for mdma sometime in the next couple of years i think they expect that uh um they'll have

00:28:35.680 approval to administering ketamine legally um uh or sorry i mean mdma legally for psd by 2022 2023

00:28:44.300 there are also clinical trials going underway right now compass pathways which i mentioned earlier

00:28:49.360 um uh is in phase 2b of their clinical trial and they expect that assuming it goes well and

00:28:55.940 based on all the anecdotal evidence out there it's going to uh they expect to have approval for

00:29:01.260 using psilocybin for treating treatment resistant depression uh by the end of 2025 2026 so that's the

00:29:09.740 sort of fda drug development pathway but that's not the only thing that's in motion um we're also

00:29:17.360 seeing states like oregon uh actually has a ballot initiative that'll be on the election uh ballots in

00:29:23.740 in november uh to create the first legal market for psilocybin services so uh much like a cannabis

00:29:29.460 market um people would be able to go and have psilocybin trips a little bit different than

00:29:33.500 cannabis um because you wouldn't be able to buy it and take it home you'd have to go to a licensed

00:29:38.780 facility where they take you through an experience but very similar in that anyone over the age of 21

00:29:44.080 as long as you don't have a contraindication would be able to access these services um and so there's a

00:29:49.220 very realistic possibility that oregon will create a legal market for psilocybin this year now it'll

00:29:53.880 take a year or two before that actually gets implemented and created but the laws will have

00:29:57.440 effectively changed and in canada um you know we tend to be a little bit behind california oregon

00:30:03.620 and colorado but what we do well up here is we do it federally and don't create any of those

00:30:08.760 cross jurisdictional issues that the u.s seems to be so fond of um just over the last couple of weeks

00:30:14.700 the minister of health has granted six people um who have terminal illnesses uh the right to use

00:30:21.060 psilocybin assisted psychotherapy for end-of-life distress um so uh based on that a for those six

00:30:27.380 people i think it's wonderful news that they'll help have an opportunity to help manage the anxiety

00:30:33.740 around dying and if you listen to a lot of the studies and reports of what the experience on

00:30:37.520 psilocybin is people often report a sense of unity a sense of safety a sense of like connection to

00:30:42.660 the universe and it helps relieve the fear of dying because it makes it feel like you're not

00:30:47.340 alone that you're part of something bigger that your body is just a you know a vehicle but your

00:30:51.480 soul lives on you know whether there's truth that or not is for everyone to make their own

00:30:54.920 determinations but um the people who have these experiences feel much less afraid of dying afterwards

00:31:00.920 um so you have these six people who have been granted access you know certainly based on that

00:31:06.220 you're going to see a lot more people asking for access as well and that's going to expand the scope

00:31:09.840 and so i think you'll see de facto legalization in canada around psilocybin at least for end-of-life

00:31:15.260 distress um sometime over the next year or two um so there's lots of different ways that we're

00:31:20.200 going to see legal access to psychedelics so i've seen um like i've seen kevin o'leary talk about his

00:31:26.860 investments is he an investor with field trip or is he with another organization no he invested in a

00:31:31.500 company called mind med um mind med is a little bit different than us in a few respects uh one is

00:31:37.980 they're just drug development they're not they're not interested in the delivery of care which we are

00:31:42.100 um and then at least their primary focus is on a molecule called 18 mc which is you know there's a

00:31:50.320 big debate within the psychedelic industry and the psychedelic community uh as to whether you need the

00:31:55.020 psychedelic experience to actually get the results you're looking for or whether um you know just uh

00:32:01.000 the molecules the the drug interaction with your neurobiology is enough to achieve the effect and so

00:32:06.360 18 mc is actually a form of ibogaine uh which is um a psychedelic derived from a plant that grows in

00:32:12.840 west africa um are you but it's different differently than i've heard i've heard it pronounced as iboga

00:32:19.420 yeah iboga uh or yeah i think ibogaine is the actual molecule iboga is the tree i think um

00:32:26.720 but uh 18 mc strips out the psychedelic experience from it so the thought is is you could and and my

00:32:36.280 meds particular case uh 18 mc is being used for the treatment of opioid addiction um but you won't

00:32:42.360 have a trip you won't have to spend you know eight hours in a room going through the experience

00:32:46.600 but just the drug will do the work now at field trip our philosophy is we want people to lean into

00:32:53.100 the psychedelic experience we don't want psychedelics to be used just like a an antidepressant where it

00:32:58.040 just fixes you because you know our belief is you got to do the work you know it's it's growth is

00:33:03.840 something that takes effort um either the universe is going to make you grow or you can you know choose

00:33:09.280 to grow consciously and psychedelics are i think are a great tool to to do that growth and sometimes

00:33:13.800 that growth may be in terms of healing your traumas and dealing with your depression or anxiety or

00:33:18.980 ptsd or sometimes you know and i think certainly what motivates me a little bit more is uh choosing

00:33:24.360 to grow and in terms of an elevation taking you from baseline to above as opposed to from below

00:33:29.800 baseline like if you have depression and anxiety up to back the baseline but um but we lean into the

00:33:35.540 psychedelic experience we want you to have the trip we want you to you know have the insights and

00:33:39.900 awareness and relive those past moments that may be causing the issues that you're dealing with

00:33:44.260 currently because that's where we think magic happens is in confronting your demons and not taking

00:33:49.560 a pill to avoid them you know is the um psychotherapy assisted uh treatment protocol that you like to

00:33:57.440 use um is it dealing with a conscious mind the unconscious mind because i did a hypnosis session

00:34:03.740 for the first time ever in my life last week with this guy in one of my men's community and that was

00:34:07.640 kind of a bizarre experience like i noticed my aura ring picked up on it as sleep like it picked up

00:34:12.640 picked up on it as rem and deep sleep but i felt somewhat conscious during the experience i'm just

00:34:18.520 wondering what what the strategy is with field trip with that stuff yeah it's both i mean the thing

00:34:24.960 that happens when you're on a psychedelic trip is it really opens up the unconscious mind uh and brings

00:34:30.020 it into the conscious so you can you know kind of like remembering a dream like a dream is an

00:34:35.060 unconscious experience but you can remember a dream and bring it into the conscious mind and that's

00:34:40.560 exactly what happens with psychedelics which is the psychedelic opens your unconscious mind very often

00:34:45.340 you'll become aware of something that you didn't become aware of on a neurobiological perspective

00:34:50.760 they've actually done fmris which is a functional magnetic resonance imaging um work with people on

00:34:57.020 psychedelics and what they see when you're on a psychedelic at least with psilocybin and i can send

00:35:00.880 you the pictures parts of the brain start talking to each other uh that either don't talk very

00:35:05.200 frequently or or you know never talk to each other and so all of a sudden your brain is making

00:35:08.720 these connections across cross-functional areas of your of literally your your you know brain mass

00:35:15.180 and that's why people all of a sudden will report either re-experiencing something from childhood or

00:35:20.500 they'll notice like music speaks to them on a different level or color has way more pronounced

00:35:25.160 effect or emotional impact because you have essentially synesthesia happening in your brain

00:35:30.780 as a result of the psychedelic and so often people have memories or insights or create awareness

00:35:37.000 um that stays with them you know people often forget their dreams but generally people are able to

00:35:42.980 remember their psychedelic experiences and then when you go into the therapy you take what your

00:35:48.000 unconscious mind revealed and talk through it on on a conscious level which you know if you go into the

00:35:53.600 psychology and philosophy of it most people would say would then you know affect your unconscious mind

00:35:57.920 afterwards but uh that's that's a sort of separate conversation interesting um man i got a lot of

00:36:04.500 questions here so um uh the the um man uh let me start with this so i talked to a lot of guys with

00:36:17.640 the regular content production that i put on my channel because one of the things that kind of

00:36:22.340 pivoted me with what i was doing i remember when i was talking to you you know about setting up this

00:36:26.820 channel i think it was 2014 that i did uh you're like yeah what are you up to and i was telling you

00:36:30.680 about the channel and i was probably around that time just hanging out with entrepreneurs and the

00:36:34.240 rides and just kind of interviewing them sort of thing yeah one of the things that happened to me

00:36:38.320 which i didn't realize until um probably a good year after the fact was i had all the symptoms of

00:36:45.700 ptsd from a uh unhealthy attachment to this one chick that i was dating at that time that i'd broken up

00:36:52.780 with right and um it took it took a little bit of self-discovery for myself and it took some

00:36:59.660 not not some but quite a few conversations that i had to have with other people and diving down

00:37:05.260 rabbit holes when it came to um human nature uh you know looking at evo psych and stuff like that

00:37:12.380 and it probably took me a good few years to really come to the realization even then like you know to

00:37:18.960 this day i still feel a little bit of vulnerability to like a condition that the red pill calls one itis

00:37:24.740 right where you can have an unhealthy attachment to one woman when you can't let go of something

00:37:29.280 sort of thing i see a lot of guys have it um just because they subscribe to a belief system that

00:37:35.060 isn't that doesn't accurately reflect human behavior and nature like a lot of guys will watch a lot of

00:37:41.960 disney stuff and pay a lot of attention to media and the news and they'll think oh sugar and spice and

00:37:46.140 all things nice nice and you know how could this woman possibly you know alter the course of my life 0.60

00:37:51.560 yet there's men every day going through the divorce machine that take their own lives right 0.62

00:37:55.260 so um like with stuff like this is this app is this application broader than just dealing with

00:38:02.740 something like ptsd like is this something that can be used for um like there's a lot of people in

00:38:09.600 ssris you know dealing with depression i know you talked about not not particularly wanting to focus on

00:38:14.740 that but how how broad is the scope of treatment that field trip can you know really participate in

00:38:21.260 it's incredibly broad um you know it's it's it's a little bit of science but it's a little bit of

00:38:27.940 terminology which is you know in your particular reference it's like yeah you had ptsd you know most

00:38:33.580 people think about ptsd as being something associated with veterans but any trauma experience

00:38:39.420 um can create its own instance you know they they talk about how in the community and in this

00:38:45.060 current scientific belief is that there's no such thing as a bad trip you know if you grew up in

00:38:49.380 the 80s like i did uh or earlier you probably watched all sorts of like dare to not do drugs

00:38:55.220 videos and you know this is your brain on you know the frying pan with the yeah exactly and all that

00:39:00.400 kind of stuff and or like people jumping out of windows out of everybody yeah exactly uh people

00:39:06.020 jumping out of windows after doing lsd and all that kind of stuff unless you know the truth is is

00:39:10.340 like that did happen it didn't happen with nearly the frequency you would think um uh based on what

00:39:16.420 we were taught but there are risks those are powerful molecules but generally the belief is

00:39:20.860 that there's no such thing as a bad trip per se um there are hard trips and there are easy trips easy

00:39:26.020 trips are exactly what you'd expect you know wonderful colors feelings of love unity all of these positive

00:39:31.540 emotions and there are hard trips that can get dark and scary and and challenging um and really

00:39:37.980 challenge your sense of self-identity now a hard trip can become a bad trip if it's not given with

00:39:44.720 the right therapeutic support you know most psychedelic therapists will say like if you

00:39:48.940 encounter something terrifying during a trip don't run away from it go towards it because there's

00:39:53.200 something to be learned your unconscious mind is telling you something uh that you need to confront

00:39:57.760 and process um but if if you don't do it with the right support if you feel scared it can actually

00:40:02.840 create its own instance of ptsd you know that's only in your mind and if people kind of wonder

00:40:07.600 about it it's like think about like having a nightmare you wake up from a nightmare and you're scared

00:40:11.380 right it's affected you if you physically you know your fire flight system is is engaged um the same

00:40:17.500 thing can happen with a trip but it can go much deeper than most bad dreams would um so ptsd is is

00:40:24.480 an experience that's much broader than just uh you know being present and more you know all of us

00:40:30.680 experience traumas all you know in the work i've done you know and with erwin uh who's who's my coach or

00:40:36.820 i don't even know how you describe him you know when you're a kid you experience traumas you have

00:40:41.200 to how many times do your parents say no to something you want to do and so what kids do is

00:40:44.780 they kind of build up emotional walls because they don't want to constantly be angry about hearing

00:40:49.720 be being told no don't stick your finger in that no don't pick that up uh and so it's a lifelong

00:40:55.320 journey to process all of these traumas and feelings and emotions and take down those emotional walls

00:41:01.380 um and to the extent that psychedelics are opening your unconscious mind uh to new experiences new

00:41:09.100 perspectives they can be used across any number of potential applications and within our clinics

00:41:14.540 we're somewhat restricted um jurisdiction by jurisdiction because of guidance from the colleges

00:41:19.200 but general rule is within field trip we'll treat any form of mental health condition you know

00:41:25.280 ranging from the most severe treatment resistant depression uh to people who just have adjustment

00:41:31.220 disorder or dysthymia which is basically they're feeling low they're feeling sad and they can't

00:41:35.620 seem to bust out of it um and all of them can potentially benefit because at the end of the day

00:41:40.560 that the mechanism of action is really the same which is psychedelics by and large are rapid

00:41:45.240 antidepressants they make you feel happier almost immediately uh but then uh they do two other things

00:41:51.360 one is they open your unconscious mind so you can revisit things that may have been packed away or that

00:41:56.380 you're not willing to go into um you know and that your brain has put or your mind has put conscious

00:42:01.900 balls against uh so you can confront them and start to process that trauma um and then thirdly

00:42:08.340 uh they create a period of neuroplasticity um so uh what happens is your brain what when you have

00:42:14.980 consistently say depressed thoughts uh the more you have a consistent thought the more that pathway in

00:42:20.280 your brain gets cemented and it makes it easier to have that thought over and over again and so

00:42:25.000 essentially what um what psychedelics do as as michael pauland described it is if you can imagine

00:42:30.800 like a lane uh with cross-country ski tracks in it uh psychedelics are kind of like a fresh batch of

00:42:37.180 powdery snow on top of that so those old pathways that you're used to using can get you know essentially

00:42:43.400 removed and you can open up new pathways that may be more productive more optimistic happier um and so

00:42:49.320 you have this period of neuroplasticity where the therapy really kicks in where you know if you're

00:42:53.500 doing the cognitive behavioral therapy shortly after a psychedelic session and your therapist is

00:42:58.800 using motivational interviewing or behavioral activation these techniques that have been

00:43:02.560 shown to work they just take a long time uh you're much more receptive to that and and so you can

00:43:07.400 change your habits you can change your outlooks much faster than you could if you're just doing

00:43:11.800 cognitive behavioral therapy so between these three layers of the immediate lift um the ability to

00:43:19.220 process old experiences and the neuroplasticity um that that's across everything you know you don't

00:43:26.820 even have to have a mental health condition to potentially benefit from that um to get a session

00:43:33.660 at one of your clinics like in like in toronto you know for example um do you have to have a referral

00:43:38.300 from your medical doctor do you have to try conventional psychotherapy first like what

00:43:42.460 do you have to do before you can that's right and dot your eyes before you can take them as a patient

00:43:47.280 yeah so in toronto we will treat any treatment resistant mental health condition which means you

00:43:52.880 had to have tried at least two courses of conventional treatment that could be cognitive behavioral therapy and

00:43:58.580 one antidepressant it could be two antidepressants it could be any number of techniques

00:44:02.300 but you have to have tried two without satisfactory success um have you guys tried um any combination

00:44:10.260 of hypnotherapy with ketamine or are they testing it with psilocybin uh we're not doing hypnotherapy uh

00:44:19.320 with any of these right now we're just doing cognitive behavioral therapy uh associated with it because i

00:44:24.040 think by and large the psychedelic experience when you're on ketamine or or psilocybin is kind of like

00:44:29.020 being hypnotized it takes you into your unconscious mind but i'm just speculating on that i don't

00:44:33.940 actually know um but in toronto it's treatment resistant mental health conditions but it can be

00:44:38.700 any treatment resistant mental health condition ptsd depression anxiety even eating disorders will

00:44:43.820 consider working with uh but that's a function of the regulations and guidance in ontario uh in la

00:44:50.220 we have a lot more flexibility um so treatment resistant mental health conditions people can come in if

00:44:56.260 they have you know they want to try um uh ketamine assisted psychotherapy if they've been recently

00:45:02.640 diagnosed with uh depression and they haven't tried anything else that's okay and we'll even treat

00:45:06.860 people um like i said who are just having a hard time you know they broke up with someone and are

00:45:12.520 having time hard time getting their mood improved or they're just feeling down um you know these are

00:45:17.580 all things you know at the end of the day the the real emphasis and it kind of gets lost in the word

00:45:23.340 psychedelic but the real emphasis is this is therapy right and therapy can benefit anyone you

00:45:28.940 don't have to be sad or depressed to benefit from therapy you could be happy in fact most therapists

00:45:33.100 say the best most productive therapy are when people are open and happy and feeling good you know that's

00:45:38.760 when you can enhance their lives but um the drug just catalyzes the therapy it just makes it easier it

00:45:44.880 makes it easier for people to go deeper and take down their emotional walls but it's therapy

00:45:48.860 um and so if you can benefit from therapy which is pretty much everybody uh you can benefit from

00:45:54.280 psychedelic assisted psychotherapy now you know there's some contraindications if you have a history

00:45:58.800 of psychosis if you have addictions all that kind of stuff it may not be appropriate for you but

00:46:03.020 by and large it's uh it's open to most people got it um with anything you're always going to have

00:46:09.000 critics and pushback um what are the obstacles for you guys dealing with that we've been fortunate

00:46:16.680 that there hasn't been a lot of obstacles we live in a world where there's been a whole bunch of

00:46:20.580 convergent trends that are leading to this moment which many people call the new psychedelic renaissance

00:46:25.360 or the psychedelic renaissance um and those are mental health has gone mainstream you see that

00:46:30.740 all the time with you know the bell let's talk ads you see that with um companies like calm and

00:46:36.620 headspace achieving multi-billion dollar valuations for meditation and mindfulness you have a we live in a

00:46:42.920 world where cannabis has gone mainstream and so a lot of those old tropes that we were talk taught

00:46:48.380 about drugs have disappeared um you have and i think most importantly the research around psychedelics

00:46:55.320 coming out showing not only that most psychedelics are safe and non-addictive and and almost impossible

00:47:00.840 to overdose on but they're also extremely effective you know and and so it's not when when issues of

00:47:07.380 stigma come up i don't really have to try and um rationalize it or convince them i just point to the

00:47:14.280 data saying like listen the data shows they're safe and they're effective you know if you want to

00:47:18.040 believe the movies you saw in the 1980s about this that's ultimately your choice but you're choosing to

00:47:24.080 ignore the current information and and to be clear no one in field trip uh right now is advocating

00:47:30.200 that everyone run out and do psychedelics that would not be a good outcome because that creates the

00:47:34.100 risk of a lot of negative outcomes and some bad trips turning or some hardships turning into bad

00:47:38.360 trips and you have that risk of you know people jumping out of a window or something along those

00:47:42.980 lines but when it comes to like the thoughtful implementation of starting with a medical program

00:47:48.720 and eventually expanding into a wellness program where people have qualified providers and

00:47:53.580 ensure legal access to safe analytic analytically tested supply it's really hard to argue against that

00:48:00.020 right now um you know it's just uh the evidence is is too persuasive and and the need too urgent i don't

00:48:06.000 know if you saw but there's a study that came out of i think california saying like one in four

00:48:10.780 millennials had contemplated suicide during like the the pandemic it's like we have a real mental health

00:48:16.720 problem and when you look at uh the current treatments they just don't work they i mean they work for some

00:48:22.000 people and i don't want to diminish that like if you have benefited from using antidepressants that's

00:48:26.400 fantastic but for majority of people they don't work people you know antidepressants have a 75

00:48:32.800 non-adherence rates which means people stop using them within six months of starting not because

00:48:39.020 they're better uh but because they found the side effects to be too intolerable or they saw no

00:48:43.680 improvement um yeah the side effects with ssris are brutal for most people exactly uh and so you have

00:48:49.920 a world where we have you know mental health becoming more problematic pandemic we have a huge problem

00:48:55.880 with digital isolation you know with the internet which has benefits and its limitations you have

00:49:01.600 these sound chambers you know these echo chambers where ideas and ideologues just get bounced off each

00:49:07.180 other and people take positions that get reinforced and reinforced because they're not seeing or being

00:49:11.200 exposed to alternative viewpoints all of these kind of circumstances are creating great challenges in

00:49:17.340 terms of people um finding emotional you know healthy emotional balances and uh and and so psychedelics kind

00:49:25.160 of are emerging at a perfect time uh where people seem to be more open-minded towards one stigmatized

00:49:31.220 medicines cool all right um i want to respect your time because i know you got to bounce for another

00:49:36.260 uh call and i have a bunch of quick questions here that popped up in the chat while we were running it

00:49:41.720 um steve said canadian legal aid only covers around 800 for counsel i saw mitigation of risk over

00:49:48.080 representation every case take the deal mentality uh it's more of a statement than a question so let's skip

00:49:54.720 over that thanks for that steve uh here's one uh good morning will this new treatment protocol give

00:50:02.200 hope for treating narcissistic bpd conditions uh quite possibly yeah i mean i i don't know specifically

00:50:08.700 around um that particular condition so it's hard for me to say but again the general kind of

00:50:15.080 mechanism of action of psychedelic therapy should treat most mental health conditions because most mental

00:50:20.480 health conditions do arise from some degree of uh emotional or mental trauma at some point in their

00:50:26.280 lives uh that haven't been addressed or rectified and um and so to the extent that's true about

00:50:32.820 narcissistic bpd uh it would make sense that these treatment options are potentially beneficial

00:50:37.960 all right and uh just feedback there loving the show the ketamine churches i've not heard of that

00:50:44.740 what's the ketamine church in toronto i don't know about ketamine church but i know there have been

00:50:49.780 five or six churches in canada that have been given the same exemptions as have been given to

00:50:54.920 um some ayahuasca churches or some churches have been given right to use ayahuasca as part of their

00:51:01.300 sacraments um and uh so maybe it's the same thing all right ketamine churches in toronto definitely

00:51:07.120 hold promise for progress here in canada rich or proven time and time again you need to be on the

00:51:10.660 joe rogan podcast already great discussion well reach out to joe and tell them to call my people

00:51:16.460 man uh i'll join you on that i'd love to be on the joe rogan show yeah there's lots to unpack there

00:51:22.320 um choose all gadgets beards let's do it so just real quick just to wrap up before you go so

00:51:28.660 where can people learn more about you field trip if they want to become an investor i know you guys

00:51:33.580 are planning on going public soon yeah uh we're listing on the canadian securities exchange next week

00:51:38.680 october 7th should be our first trading day that may slip a day um but if you want to find out more

00:51:43.760 about the company go to meetfieldtrip.com that's our investor relations corporate site if you're

00:51:50.100 interested in treatments go to fieldtriphhealth.com that has all the information about our clinics we

00:51:54.820 have clinics in toronto new york and la right now uh chicago is in construction and should be open next

00:52:00.040 month and then we have two more clinics that should be up and running before the end of the year we

00:52:04.220 haven't disclosed the locations yet and just being sensitive to us and being a public company

00:52:08.580 i gotta disclose it through a press release as opposed to right now but you'll see more and

00:52:12.300 more we're hoping to scale up to at least 75 locations across north america before 2023 2024

00:52:18.540 cool all right well appreciate that um hang out for a couple minutes you know when we get off the

00:52:23.960 air just like to talk a little bit more about some other updates on the business side um ronan thanks

00:52:28.180 for joining me guys make sure you uh hit like if there's somebody that needs to see this or you want

00:52:31.760 to learn more about field trip or ronan check them out uh also on monday on the before the train

00:52:36.580 wreck show i've got um john coming on who's the guy that was uh the ex-husband of that woman that

00:52:41.860 was the pastor turned stripper turned only fans foddery so uh he was at the rollo last night i

00:52:48.060 talked to him this morning uh we're gonna put him on before the train wreck and see if we can

00:52:51.660 reverse engineer the train wreck that happened in his life and and uh get some clarity for him and for

00:52:56.040 you guys uh thanks for uh watching guys ronan appreciate it dude of course man thank you

00:53:00.960 thank you

00:53:14.640 you

00:53:16.200 you

00:53:16.700 you

00:53:18.140 you

Playing to Win - March 02, 2022

027 - From Lawyer to Co-Founding Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy Clinics

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript