Playing to Win - 033 - What DeFi is & Why it Matters To Your Future

00:00:00.000 all right what is up my brothers we're live for another episode of playing to win

00:00:06.320 joined again by an old friend amir rosick what's up brother i'm doing good bro how you doing yeah

00:00:13.140 man so we haven't talked in a while you're i mean you've been a frequent guest over the years and

00:00:18.300 we always have great talks i wanted to pull you in to talk about some of the deeper i don't even

00:00:23.940 want to use the word darker but like the deeper holes of the blockchain and cryptocurrency and

00:00:29.340 decentralized finance and why defy is potentially going to be something you need to keep your eye on

00:00:35.880 or even get involved in now um what what is decentralized finance um in your view versus

00:00:44.160 like how does it differ from bitcoin let's start with that um it's it's same same different different

00:00:52.120 so bitcoin is decentralized finance at its purest so people forget that bitcoin is the

00:00:58.280 truest form of decentralized finance i've always said it the word so defy stands for decentralized

00:01:03.860 finance and it's a misnomer a better terminology at least for the ethereum space is permissionless

00:01:09.380 finance so anybody anybody anywhere anywhere in the world can build on top of these protocols and

00:01:15.360 participate without anybody telling them they can or cannot there's very few protocols within the

00:01:20.780 ethereum space uniswap b1 that it is fully decentralized and permissionless meaning uh no one

00:01:27.220 can alter the set protocol um so i don't want to go like crazy crazy down into the technicalities but

00:01:33.380 yeah to summarize bitcoin is still the king of d5 okay so bitcoin still is decentralized finance but

00:01:41.660 it's but it's more of a store of value like it's like it's being used today as a store of um i i buy

00:01:48.660 bitcoin it's kind of like digital gold that's it yeah story and that's why it's an easier sell

00:01:54.020 so like you look at ethereum right now with d5 that's today's flavor um it's always been there like

00:01:59.060 even if you look at like the white paper and the yellow paper and back like three four years people were

00:02:03.140 talking about it the dow was long time ago dow's existed i just product market fit and timing of the

00:02:09.220 zeitgeist of if people are ready for this both from a psychological perspective and from a market

00:02:14.660 perspective and technology perspective it wasn't there but ethereum hasn't yet evolved to a point

00:02:20.900 where i can sell the narrative at the end of the day it's not technology that matters it's narrative

00:02:24.740 that matters like i always tell people like hypothetically let's say a better bitcoin comes

00:02:28.980 around and hypothetically it's launched exactly the same way and hypothetically there's no founder

00:02:33.700 yada yada yada uh the fact that narratives trump technology memes trump technology it's all about

00:02:40.900 minnesis and so bitcoin has come to a point that the zeitgeist is a store of value it's digital gold

00:02:47.380 it's a very easy sell when you tell people it's a better form of gold as opposed to ethereum for me

00:02:53.220 it's like hard to um it's hard for me to narrow down exactly that one narrative of what ethereum is

00:02:59.460 at the moment well ethereum's still sitting in the number two place as far as popularity i mean we've

00:03:05.060 got bitcoin almost at a trillion dollar market cap which is something that's going to be a huge

00:03:09.060 milestone i think they say when it hits like bitcoin has all the has all the dev share has it's it's all

00:03:15.380 the intellectual capitals in ethereum when it comes to like building stuff yeah yeah there's there's

00:03:20.260 there's more noise on social platforms about that than anything else but i'm starting to hear more

00:03:24.260 people talk about alternative uh cryptocurrencies and tokens which um have promised in the future as

00:03:31.540 as they're my understanding as i'm hearing the information is these sorts of platforms are designed to

00:03:39.060 um not not so much rip i mean replacing banks ain't gonna happen anytime in the very near future but

00:03:48.020 maybe displace them you know to some degree um i like to say they're giving you alternative options

00:03:54.100 that never existed before yeah and we need that because banks suck i mean i had a conversation earlier 0.99

00:03:59.220 this week with my bank it took me like almost an hour four idiots to get to a manager just to do 0.99

00:04:04.980 something so simple and basic i should have been able to do it online and they were basically holding 0.90

00:04:08.820 my money hostage i ended up shutting down the account and telling me to tell you know basically

00:04:12.900 telling them to pound sand um that's what i really really like about about decentralized finance

00:04:19.140 cryptocurrencies bitcoin however it is you want to wrap it up but what i wanted to do with this uh

00:04:24.100 show is to try to get some clarity because i see a lot of people tweeting out about different

00:04:27.940 um tokens and in coins so i was hoping maybe we could go down this list a little bit and get sure

00:04:34.100 and get your perception of what they are and what promise they hold for the future sure does that work

00:04:40.500 okay so yeah okay so if you can define ethereum to the viewers right now what is that and why is it important

00:04:49.700 so for me it's like i said before it's hard to define it exactly how bitcoin is like bitcoin as it

00:04:55.620 stands today for the last couple of years is a store of value that's it like people aren't building

00:04:59.940 anything on top of it per se well they are trying to but it hasn't taken hold for me i think ethereum

00:05:07.540 people are trying to paint it as uh it's it's everything type of thing when it's everything

00:05:13.140 it's nothing type of deal right so it's very hard to sell the narrative when it's everything but for me

00:05:17.700 i would say that it's like the oil and gas of the internet economy is that what it is yeah but

00:05:24.980 that narrative they call it digital oil horrible narrative okay that's like a really bad narrative

00:05:30.580 to sell you know people like the reason why a store of value works there's two functions to that

00:05:35.620 right so number one people automatically know what a store of value means and when you say digital gold

00:05:41.220 right you're building off of a heuristic of understanding the value of gold so your actual

00:05:46.020 processing bandwidth to understand the value proposition of what bitcoin is takes a split second

00:05:51.060 as opposed to saying well ethereum is the oil well it's beyond oil ethereum is also collateral asset

00:05:55.620 on d5 there's billions of dollars locked you need eth as well for gas so that's the oil you also need

00:06:02.100 eth for other computational aspects so it's like a trifecta you have all these different types of

00:06:06.260 properties that eth represents for me at least today uh eth is the biggest playground for experimentations

00:06:14.900 and developers and new economic protocols being developed in the web3 space got it okay so let's

00:06:23.220 keep going down the list we've got tether that's a bullshit coin don't use that it's really just a

00:06:26.740 stable coin it's a stable coin uh binance quite so bnb is interesting because um i had to pick some

00:06:34.500 up i don't know like six or seven months ago just to do some staking and a few other side things i'm

00:06:38.900 doing on uh binance and i got it at like 30 bucks it's 197 today what the hell's going on with um

00:06:45.300 binance coin in your view finance coin is uh a very old school type of model it's an exchange coin

00:06:52.660 but became very popular in 2017 so it's a utility token for the most part you use it for reduced fees

00:06:59.700 on binance you can use it for staking to earn some type of fees uh but for the most part it acts

00:07:05.860 similar to as a dividend because instead of it acts like a dividend i say but it's not the same

00:07:11.860 flow as a dividend dividend they'll actually give you payouts so in binance's case they don't

00:07:16.420 give you payouts per se but they burn the supply of the token okay um so so the way that i'm using it

00:07:25.620 kind of like as an elementary you know description from my experiences um if you want to stake on

00:07:31.220 projects to earn tokens if you want to earn at a stable interest rate um that's that's basically

00:07:38.420 what you have to use on um sure caveat you don't own your keys on binance so right that's the one

00:07:45.700 thing yeah so when you say owning your keys you mean like you want them on cold storage like you

00:07:49.860 would store your bitcoin but i mean you're not going to do that with binance coin because it's more

00:07:53.460 correct also also depending on the amount you want to withdraw i think it's two btc but you can

00:07:59.700 correct me if i'm wrong you will have to do you have to do kyc and aml yeah um which is just a

00:08:06.180 couple of hoops you got to jump through to get your bitcoin out if you're moving more than two at a

00:08:09.620 time um cardano what's the story with that that one i heard a lot about over the last couple years 0.84

00:08:14.740 not so much it's a ghost chain man it's a ghost chain nothing it's garbage nothing like nothing's 0.99

00:08:21.380 going on and there's been there for years like there's no i don't know what the fuck they're doing 0.96

00:08:24.820 well it's sitting at number five on this list here so i mean there's 28 what is it billion i i'm 0.71

00:08:30.340 gonna make everyone a a proclamation here i'll put twenty thousand dollars down in the next three

00:08:34.820 years even sooner next two years you're gonna see a complete reorg of those top tens okay well yeah

00:08:39.940 absolutely i mean 100 in the next 10 years you're gonna see this change dramatically no no no not 10

00:08:44.580 years in two years oh two years okay yeah all right polka dot what do you think of polka dot and

00:08:49.860 very cool very what is the story behind polka dot because i've got some of this yeah so one of the

00:08:54.980 co-founders of ethereum wanted to create a different architectural design uh polka dot looks like what

00:09:03.140 ethereum 2.0 will be so it's almost the same architectural design as what ethereum 2.0 is trying

00:09:10.180 to do is it used like is it based on like an ethereum blockchain or is it on its own no no they

00:09:16.500 created their own from scratch all right so dot is the currency it functions very differently than

00:09:21.540 how ethereum functions but where ethereum is wanting to head to like the ethereum 2.0 dot kind of behaves

00:09:27.060 the same similar architectural design a lot of developers are working on dot is fairly new uh so the

00:09:33.300 lindy effect isn't there there's the the narrative isn't there there's no narrowing around it but when

00:09:38.180 you look at like developer focus where you look at interesting technologies where you look at also like

00:09:43.140 synergies between other blockchains dot has a lot of synergies with ethereum and what problem does dot

00:09:49.220 solve scalability okay which you don't get with ethereum is what you're saying not as of today not

00:09:57.220 as of today you do with like layer twos that's a whole different conversation but uh not as a layer

00:10:03.220 one right now right and and by the way guys like all of these that we're talking about right now like you

00:10:08.500 shouldn't even be looking at these unless you've bought some bitcoin i mean you should probably aim for at

00:10:12.340 least one bitcoin first before you even start playing with any of this stuff um totally bitcoin

00:10:16.900 is like is like just bridging the gap between uh early adopters and then mass adoption like

00:10:22.180 all of these companies like michael saylor and tesla buying up loads of bitcoin this is just the

00:10:27.140 start of a wave of money that starts when a pile into bitcoin this stuff isn't isn't anywhere close

00:10:32.900 bridging the gap between early adopters and mass adoptions it's not even close to it so there's lots

00:10:37.060 of upside to all of these things but not all of these things will blow up at the end of the day most

00:10:41.540 of this will kind of like blow up and fizzle out if you know what i'm saying um should we even

00:10:46.100 bother with xrp because that's just bullshit pass pass okay xrp is really just a token that the banks 0.98

00:10:53.380 use to move money around it's it's they don't use it man i don't know who the fuck uses it yeah it's a 0.93

00:10:58.580 centralized token i mean it's basically a lawyer magnet they ended up i think answering a class action 0.59

00:11:04.100 lawsuit over some bullshit last year but sec sec is actually suing them going after the founders so it's 0.68

00:11:11.060 it's interesting because yeah stay away from anything that's centralized basically which is

00:11:15.620 which is xrp um litecoin i mean that's just kind of bitcoin light i mean there's really not much to

00:11:20.500 talk about there well they say litecoin is more as a test net for bitcoin so instead of trying to

00:11:25.460 figure out stuff on bitcoin since it is pretty much the same thing uh bitcoin yeah so they do test

00:11:30.740 that on there yeah yeah i mean you'll always be be better off holding like 20 worth of satoshis on

00:11:37.620 bitcoin than than 20 worth of litecoin um it's just the reality of it but i mean if you want to grab

00:11:44.420 some um let's move on to another so chain link is a d5 token so i wouldn't classify it as uh d5 per se

00:11:55.140 what chain link is it's an oracle protocol it's middleware if you look if you refer talking software

00:12:00.020 so chain link links is the number one connector of oracle feed prices so without oracle feed prices

00:12:06.420 the whole ecosystem kind of crashes so if i need to take multiple different prices from different

00:12:11.220 exchanges from different dexes if i need to take off chain pricing from different like you know in

00:12:16.180 the real world pricing onto the onto web3 that's what that's what chain link does it's very important

00:12:21.460 really really important uh people don't talk too much about oracles but without oracle without

00:12:26.420 price arbitrage without figuring out the stability of the price the whole system kind of collapses

00:12:30.820 is this is this one that's worth holding chain link has bro i think from last from the last two

00:12:37.620 years has gone up like i don't know like seven unreal amounts okay i'm gonna drop that down

00:12:46.180 uh bitcoin cash i want to skip over because that's just another coin um do you want to talk about stellar

00:12:51.780 or i don't know what on earth they're doing okay we'll skip that usd coin is a stable coin stable coin okay

00:12:58.580 what about dodge dogecoin or dogecoin everybody's jerking off to this one last couple this is the

00:13:03.700 original this is the original meme coin yeah people understand dogecoin is old jackson paul

00:13:09.300 jackson paul i think was his name when he made it keys are burnt nobody runs it there's hardly any

00:13:13.620 github repos on it meaning people aren't developing it was literally designed as a joke yeah but like

00:13:19.140 there was no like intention to come in and be like oh we're gonna create no it's like i'm gonna make fun

00:13:24.660 of this and we're gonna do dogecoin and it's created a life of his own like believe it or not

00:13:29.140 like there you just even as of two years ago there used to be dogecoin conferences in vancouver

00:13:36.020 like the the culture behind dogecoin is massive like it's people really don't understand the power

00:13:43.860 of the meme of dogecoin like if you're not if you don't understand memes if you don't understand like

00:13:48.740 how memes shape ideologies would shape reality then you really don't understand a the world

00:13:55.460 how it works and b specifically how the crypto world works so basically it's a joke i mean if

00:14:00.820 you want to play the joke then get it if you if you're smarter than stay away from it

00:14:07.300 yeah i mean there's always somebody out there that's new that's like get some dogecoin gets you

00:14:11.220 know it's it's gonna go no dude it's like you know there's always somebody that's like you know

00:14:14.980 ever heard of dogecoin it's like just just don't um what about wrapped bitcoin like i don't even know

00:14:21.140 what that is how would you okay so you you got you got bitcoin on its own blockchain right you got

00:14:29.060 ethereum its own blockchain and you can't natively take the bitcoin asset and put it on ethereum

00:14:36.020 not as of yet okay so basically what they do is you have a service this is not this is not

00:14:42.980 decentralized this is custodial so you have a bunch of different services that will hold your bitcoin

00:14:47.780 so basically how it works is you have a service that you send your physical bitcoin into uh one

00:14:53.220 service is wbtc.cafe and so basically how it does is like let's say i send one bitcoin to the service

00:15:00.660 this one service gives me an erc20 ethereum token that represents my bitcoin it's mine i control 100

00:15:06.980 percent now i have a wrap bitcoin on ethereum and i can do all sorts of different things i can use it

00:15:13.540 as collateral i can stake it i can earn interest rates on it i can participate in different d5

00:15:18.820 protocols actually one of the biggest d5 protocols right now theorem is badger which just focus on

00:15:23.620 bitcoin and they have about uh like 2.5 billion aum right now so i mean if i'm understanding this

00:15:30.260 correctly does this does this wrap bitcoin pull bitcoin into smart contract networks yeah yeah

00:15:36.980 yeah is that something worth holding or is it just something that you get as you need it

00:15:41.460 if you're if you're if you want to geek into d5 and really go down the rabbit hole

00:15:46.900 you can experiment i want to say do a whole bitcoin do whatever you know 500 bucks a thousand bucks to

00:15:52.660 at least understand it but like if you really want to benefit from the upside of the different farms that

00:15:57.540 they have the yield uh the interest rates on d5 then definitely i would recommend at least

00:16:02.340 experimenting with the with wrap bitcoin all right uniswap is where you're paying gas fees

00:16:08.820 right like this is where you're swapping out ethereum for other you're paying gas you're paying gas

00:16:13.780 fees for any single transaction done okay so if it's a swap or not okay so is uniswap something

00:16:19.060 that you want to hold or is it just something yeah you're paying gas fees you know you know swap

00:16:22.660 you know swap has done more volume than coinbase and kraken it is when i said d5 oh yeah they're

00:16:28.180 massive 100 billion dollars the other day volume um but i mean like are these gas fees getting so

00:16:34.740 expensive that it's that it's pushing people to other solutions correct and we already have

00:16:40.420 solutions right now like layer two which we can dive into which you know swap is going on layer two

00:16:45.460 in the next couple of months you know and pretty much all of the theory will be layer two with the

00:16:48.820 next three months okay so you're saying it's not going anywhere then pennies on the dollar

00:16:53.380 literally aave is one that i've heard mentioned a few times a lot of people have said i love it

00:16:59.060 get this one and hold it so what is it and what problem does it solve like why do you love this so

00:17:03.540 much aave is an open source permissionless money market so i can take all different forms of collateral

00:17:09.940 different types of tokens like wbtc being one i can go to aave and stake it earn some interest and use

00:17:15.540 that as collateral to take out stable coins which is great because i don't buy you but i don't really

00:17:20.500 sell my crypto i'm like super long i'm like 20 30 years long so i never ever want to sell my crypto

00:17:25.380 so basically what i do is that you can go and have it you can then stake your crypto as collateral and

00:17:30.020 they have different types of ratios to make sure you're not liquidated so obviously like no no different

00:17:34.260 than any other type of money market you want to make sure your collateral is healthy um in comparison

00:17:39.060 to the loan that you take the loans are very cheap in comparison to d5 you're talking about anywhere

00:17:43.860 between lows of five percent to the highs of eight percent and now you can take that loan for example

00:17:48.980 here's a here's something you do on d5 you take your ethereum you take your wbtc or there's a bunch

00:17:55.460 of collaterals you can check on avi you collateralize it earn a little bit interest on that you take a

00:18:00.660 stable coin loan i can take that loan and go to some d5 pools and i can be earning 30 interest rates by

00:18:06.660 just staking on on their protocol so is so is avi an exchange or is it a decentralized token no it's

00:18:13.860 a money market okay and it's a decentralized money market it's a decentralized permissionless

00:18:19.140 money market yeah interesting okay i'll have to do a little more research but and the reasons for it

00:18:24.740 now avi might be getting into mortgages man like if avi does mortgages i will never use a bank in my

00:18:29.940 life ever again period point i'll do i'll do just about anything to try to avoid using banks today 0.99

00:18:35.940 fuck those guys fuck those guys um cosmos do you have any thoughts on that i love it uh you know 1.00

00:18:42.580 half the team's from toronto um one the architecture how they designed it the simplicity behind it uh 1.00

00:18:49.940 the value prop that they're solving is quite different than what even ethereum 2.0 will be

00:18:54.580 so like my my thesis in the future is no different than software you're going to have protocols that

00:19:01.220 specializes in verticals ethereum might be d5 i don't know bitcoin is a store of value that's it

00:19:09.220 at least as of today uh cosmos might be because something completely different so depending on

00:19:15.060 your use case of what you're trying to build in the crypto world will determine which type of

00:19:21.460 protocols you would like to use and so if we're looking at network effects like moore's law and we're

00:19:26.100 looking at developer mindset and intellectual capital the only three that you should be focusing

00:19:30.500 on in order uh bitcoins by itself because it's like i said it's slow steady blah blah blah ethereum

00:19:36.420 number one then we got dot then we got cosmos the rest is it's a it's a nothing burger okay um monero

00:19:44.580 aside from maybe buying like depleted uh uranium on the black market uh what do you think of that

00:19:51.460 i think i think believe it or not my thesis is i think monero is undervalued and i think the price

00:19:59.140 will keep on going up and up uh once other types of protocols are built around it to do easier

00:20:04.180 swapping the biggest problem is swapping right now and uh i think more depend specifically what

00:20:09.940 we're seeing right now in the current times i think more people will have to come to the realization

00:20:17.060 that privacy is important because i think a lot of people don't realize how important privacy is

00:20:21.460 yeah i i haven't seen like the mass adoption that i was expecting with monero when they yeah 0.98

00:20:29.140 until they get a boot up their ass and they realize how important it is 0.97

00:20:33.300 okay so you like that one then um eos what is that and is that important it's it's a nothing burger 0.99

00:20:39.460 nothing burger okay bitcoin sv that's also nothing nothing burger okay uh tron trx it's it's a curled

00:20:49.540 copy of ethereum in asia so that's a nothing burger in my mind yeah okay nem xcm i have no idea what

00:20:59.220 you're doing it's a nothing burger in my mind iota oh my god i didn't get started with that one okay

00:21:06.020 so this is why i like you man you you know you're short right to the point no around let's get right to

00:21:10.900 it rich ve chain nothing burger tezos they're the one thing with tesla is what they're trying to do and

00:21:19.380 i just think is way too early they're trying to capitalize on uh security tokens

00:21:27.140 but i think it's just way too early regulations not there like there's way too many moving pieces i think

00:21:32.900 we're years and years away from something that's robust as like the tsx that's all security tokens

00:21:39.140 okay theta they're trying to do some amazon thing with videos i don't know nothing to me okay avalanche

00:21:46.660 ava the new the new ethereum killer for me right now it just came out to me it's a nothing burger

00:21:51.700 as of today so it's so it's slated to be an ethereum killer but you're saying it's got nothing going

00:21:56.500 on for it they literally just came yesterday so i have no idea okay so i'll put a question mark for

00:22:02.020 that one to keep an eye on it huboy token ht wobi um it is similar to the finance token same

00:22:11.300 properties okay neo the chinese ethereum killer the nothing burger okay tara ah this one's interesting

00:22:21.220 so this one's korean defi so if people aren't familiar korea is probably one of the most uh per

00:22:28.180 capita uh active crypto traders on the planet point blank and tara is very focused on korea and

00:22:37.700 if you don't understand korean culture and the zeitgeist in korea they like their own 0.99

00:22:41.380 shit versus other people's stuff um enter tara 0.99

00:22:48.260 okay dash i have no idea what they've been doing they've been around for a very long time 0.95

00:22:54.020 they've been trying to do stuff in latin america they try to do some payment stuff but i don't know

00:23:00.100 i have no idea all right crypto.com coin what is that like a binance coin no different got it the

00:23:07.860 graph grt yes so another another middleware so middleware is really important in crypto space yeah

00:23:15.540 yeah so the graph is really important for are also connecting all different protocols i'm not going to

00:23:20.980 dive into specifics but no different than how link needs to do price feeds graph is connecting different

00:23:25.700 types of data sets all across different protocols i need to talk to each other so it's really it has

00:23:30.260 a huge moore's law network effect like let me put you need to use some type of sub graph when you're

00:23:35.300 building something and graph is the best one so far no matter what this is this is where i look at it

00:23:40.020 i have to use an oracle feed no matter what and the best oracle feeds are ones that have the network

00:23:44.900 effect to have multiple oracle feed connections meaning i can't rely on one oracle feed and we've seen

00:23:49.620 time and time again in crypto if you rely on one oracle feed you get flash loan attack you get

00:23:55.140 oracle manipulation you need to have different type of oracle prices from different type of oracle feeds

00:23:59.940 to make sure your attack vector is as minimal possible no different than me creating data sets

00:24:04.740 and sub graphs i need to have as many different connected network effects so the graph is i think

00:24:09.540 it's i like it yeah so it has a future l l ron

00:24:12.900 i have no idea what they're doing okay snx uh synthetic super bullish been years bullish on it

00:24:21.460 think of an open source synthetics exchange running 24 7 7 days a week that you can trade anything on it

00:24:29.380 and they just started they just listed tesla shares a synthetic version of it i can go on there i can i can

00:24:36.260 i can use a snx token i can mint a stable coin from it earn exchange rewards for providing liquidity

00:24:43.940 and then i can take that stable coin and buy synthetic shares and synthetic versions of tokens

00:24:49.220 to trade against so this is linking decentralized finance to the stock market is that what you're

00:24:54.980 saying that's your long-term plan yeah interesting all right well it's a good thing i bought some of

00:25:00.100 that maker mkr uh money market as well like a bank money market yeah okay uh ftx token ftt exchange token

00:25:10.420 okay i'll i'll go ranch okay algorand i don't know so-called another anybody that claims to be a

00:25:16.660 theorem killer like they're like goodbye like there's no killing a theory right now they won the

00:25:21.300 narrative as a like the so-called layer one okay uh solana uh they have some interesting stuff on it

00:25:29.540 uh good teams on it but uh they're brand new so it's yet to be determined on the future of

00:25:35.860 what narrative they have thanks let me just hit uh thank you for alex for the super chat appreciate

00:25:41.460 that um filecoin fil i personally believe it's overvalued right now but what they've been trying

00:25:48.980 to do is data uh monetizing data right so uh you know one which is the team lead on on filecoin

00:25:57.780 created ipfs um and so basically what they're trying to figure out is like if you have spirit

00:26:02.980 data you can use your hard drive or terabytes or whatever you have to host different types

00:26:07.460 of files you get paid for that so it's kind of like decentralizing storage uh i my personal

00:26:13.620 bias opinion way too early i'm not yeah i'm not hearing a lot of excitement out of you on on this one

00:26:19.300 now um compound com another money market another money market okay die dai it's a decentralized

00:26:28.420 stable coin all right sushi swap i've heard uh mark you know you know swaps competitor i like them 0.95

00:26:36.020 you like them i like them i like the execution i like the team i like the goofy fucking experiments 0.97

00:26:42.820 they do i like everything about them is this is this one to buy and hold yeah yeah okay zcash we got 0.93

00:26:50.180 as a privacy corn uh kusama is one that i've heard a lot about too what do you think of kusama that's

00:26:55.700 dots testnet so uh people are bullish on that but like remember like a lot of these ones you mentioned

00:27:01.140 like dot or even uh not cosmos have been out for a while but dot and like avalanche they've literally

00:27:07.300 come out yesterday yeah uh so we got binance usd which is just another stable coin stable coin yeah

00:27:14.500 theorem classic we can skip what's uh d cred decret is cool man they've been around forever and they

00:27:20.500 have one of the most interesting governance systems so they have a proof of stake and a proof of work

00:27:25.780 running linearly together and they they don't people don't talk too much about them but in reality

00:27:32.340 i really love the experiments they're running and how long they've been doing it um i don't know if

00:27:40.580 it's one of the tokens i would personally hold on to for alpha per se but i don't discredit what they

00:27:46.580 do i actually applaud them i wish them the best because what they're trying to achieve is no one's

00:27:50.900 really trying to do what they're trying to do you're in finance why if i year is an interesting one

00:27:58.980 so that is also uh i i can call it a d5 aggregate where it aggregates all these different d5 protocols

00:28:07.060 to create different vaults and different opportunities and different alpha for people to do

00:28:10.980 what's interesting about it it was uh no founders per se no fundraising uh the guy anja that created

00:28:18.660 it just needed to create the token to do his own thing then realize other people were mining it

00:28:23.060 they burnt you know there's only uh i think just under like 40 000 tokens so very limited supply

00:28:30.180 i forget exactly because they just they increased the limit just the last week so i forget what the

00:28:34.500 number is now but urine's a big one i think that one's just going to keep and also side note there's

00:28:39.940 rumors where uh what their name is barry what the hell's his name uh what's those guys they've got

00:28:48.340 the bitcoin etf i'll come to me anyways um you're talking about qbtc no no no that's canadian one

00:28:55.540 that's uh the three iq the other guy's the united states um oh the grayscale one great skill so great

00:29:01.300 skills actually we there's paperwork that we saw in delaware they just opened up uh uh year and wi-fi

00:29:07.300 trust so people can start buying well that's rumors but uh i'm super bullish on here okay um here's

00:29:13.380 one that's interesting pancake swap cake i've heard a lot of that's that's finances that's

00:29:18.500 finances straight clone of you know swap is that something that uh you want to buy and hold because

00:29:23.220 i'm because i'm hearing people say bye bye bye but i don't i don't know anything about it like what

00:29:27.140 problems is itself i'm not bullish on it no if you're a trader you would have made a killing off of it

00:29:33.380 but i do zero trading yeah okay umma uma interesting so they're doing synthetics as well think of them as

00:29:42.020 um uh in their own type of let's say they're trying to do synthetics differently than what how syntax is

00:29:50.580 doing it so i think more competition more experiments with synthetics is needed so i personally don't hold

00:29:58.340 any but i think what they're trying to accomplish is it's it's needed and so basically they're trying

00:30:04.100 to do a different variation what syntax is doing um i'm going to start skipping through some of these

00:30:09.860 these because i don't want to don't know nothing burger nothing burger okay talk to me about

00:30:15.220 celsius because i mean these guys are claiming that they're basically going to be an online bank where

00:30:22.260 you're going to earn interest you can borrow against your crypto it seems to have the most stable

00:30:26.580 infrastructure right now from what i've seen anyway one they're an exchange right so they hold your keys

00:30:32.340 uh nothing against that i'm just biased and i don't want anybody holding my keys and i'll take

00:30:39.460 the risks of losing it all i want to control everything and i i'm not a big fan of people

00:30:44.020 knowing who i am so celsius cool you know um do you think it's something that i don't know that would

00:30:51.140 get adopted by the masses you know people that would overlook the fact that you don't own your keys

00:30:54.900 like that's not a big deal to them they just want to earn the interest and borrow against their crypto

00:30:58.100 maybe uh but sells like for me if that's the case and the coin bases and the krakens will just suck

00:31:08.660 up more people globally speaking okay um you want to hit on any of these waves near protocol bittorrent

00:31:19.540 near near near is doing some cool scaling zero x has been around forever i know the founders

00:31:24.180 they're kind of like the infrastructure glue of a lot of the d5 protocols um structure glue

00:31:31.540 yeah yeah so you got like a lot of these dexes like we mentioned uniswap and like there's ones like

00:31:37.780 one inch you have sushi swap and so what zero x is trying to do is building like an aggregate network

00:31:44.020 uh of of protocols where everything kind of feeds through zero x they've been around forever you know

00:31:48.500 they're not they're not a not a new kid on the block and so their shipping code i like the direction

00:31:54.340 that they're taking lately and uh you know their token price obviously like everybody else i'm going

00:31:59.300 like this but the direction that they're taking i'm super bullish on i like the i like i like what

00:32:03.940 they're focusing on right now okay um i'm start oh here we go here's one that's interesting i've

00:32:10.100 i've heard you tweet about this one a lot bro bro that's that's all right all right because this ties into

00:32:16.020 wbtc okay so right now yeah you have let's thor chain yeah um so let's go back to everybody's

00:32:25.620 familiar with like parito's principle like ziff's law right okay so in crypto right now parito's

00:32:32.980 principle is a theorem and bitcoin liquidity and mental focus and intellectual capital and then there's

00:32:38.340 a long tail for everything else but the long tail adds up there's billions of dollars in long tail

00:32:43.300 right the crypto market's what two trillion now coming up or something that's peanuts it's going

00:32:46.980 to be hundreds of trillions in future and so basically how it works for the protocols right

00:32:51.700 now is you have some are proof of work some are proof of stake uh multiple are going to be proof of

00:32:57.380 state but they're not interchangeable natively so for example if i want to take bitcoin right now i have

00:33:03.380 to wrap it onto ethereum if i want to take ethereum or if i want to take dot which is polka dot or cosmos i

00:33:10.660 have to wrap it and bring it on ethereum vice versa if i want to put ethereum on cosmos i have to wrap

00:33:16.340 it and bring it to cosmos thor chain so far and it looks great they're on testnet they just launched

00:33:23.140 testnet that's not necessary for the first time ever non-custodial you have your keys

00:33:29.700 you think of it as the glue the the decentralized exchange that connects all the blockchains together

00:33:36.260 so if i want to swap bitcoin for ethereum without wrapping non-custodial done if i want to switch

00:33:42.260 ethereum for dot non-custodial done so is this going to be built as an exchange or what are they

00:33:49.860 but it's more than just a dex so it's phase one it's a dex so thor chain is going to be a decentralized

00:33:55.300 exchange with d5 integrated into it and if if testnet proves to be sustainable and it works

00:34:02.500 thor chain is going to be top 10. like i i have no without a shadow of a doubt

00:34:09.140 okay um and then we're kind of getting into like the top 100 or so is there anything here that's

00:34:16.740 notable that we should loop ring's pretty cool that's layer two exchange on ethereum they have

00:34:21.380 over 100 million dollars worth of volume and cost you literally pennies to exchange so if you want to

00:34:26.420 exchange like stable coins ethereum or some d5 tokens that people talk about expensive they just don't

00:34:31.300 know about this like i use loop ring you can literally do swaps or pennies right now on loop ring

00:34:36.340 okay uh what about swiss borg i've i've heard that a few times

00:34:44.100 no one inch is pretty cool so they're like an aggregation of different types of dexes

00:34:50.100 think of them as another competitor to you know swaps everyone trying to kind of figure out their

00:34:54.580 their competitive advantage against you know squad i'm not seeing any other names here that i've

00:35:01.300 like i'm at this point basically looking for tokens and names that i've heard people talking about on

00:35:06.580 a frequent basis and i'm not seeing anything here is there anything that we missed in the top 100 uh

00:35:11.780 uh not really to be honest i don't see let's see um

00:35:19.620 not really to be honest okay so let me just kind of kind of go over to sunrise and before i do that

00:35:24.980 there's there's a couple of super chats here i got to catch up on uh nick says thoughts on

00:35:30.100 tay tay coin i don't know if you know what that is never heard of okay so it's a nothing burger um

00:35:37.940 the mississippi club says 150 likes and 500 watch and talk about some bums in the chat

00:35:45.620 i like this guy the mississippi yeah yeah smash that like button guys come on you know it

00:35:50.180 it doesn't cost you anything and it helps out with the algorithms all right

00:35:53.620 mexican iron man says great information thank you rich uh thank you amir um and i don't know who this

00:36:00.500 is but he's talking about some guy named richard hart do you do you know a guy named richard hart in

00:36:06.100 the crypto space no i've never spoke to him yeah richard hart has been a serial entrepreneur for years

00:36:11.220 retired since 2000 he is heavily into crypto and based the first blockchain certificate of deposit

00:36:16.580 yeah hex it's uh to me it's a nothing burger okay problem solved there um okay so let me kind of

00:36:24.340 summarize what we got over here because what i really wanted to do with this is like kind of dive

00:36:28.660 into decentralized finance and try to get a little more information on on which tokens would be worth

00:36:34.740 watching and maybe even buying and holding so out of um out of the ones that i highlighted here i got ave

00:36:41.780 atom luna sushi ksm uma and rune what are your what are your top three that you think people should

00:36:50.900 really look at or even consider holding well there's also the theory that except one on that chart

00:36:57.940 that uh two sorry so that would be luna and throw chain all the all the other ones are on ethereum

00:37:03.220 so think of a theorem as an etf for all these defies if we're going back to the original thing of

00:37:08.580 ethereum being oil which i just don't like the narrative of oil it's uh i don't know maybe i

00:37:12.740 mean i'm an oddball but i think the narrative for like price accumulation for oil is it's moot um

00:37:18.980 you just hold the theory um and it's also gonna be less volatile like that's another thing like defy

00:37:24.340 is fairly new per se based on where we're heading and you know it's going to take years of different

00:37:30.660 experimentations and attack vectors and and to battle test everything and the defy tokens will also be the

00:37:37.220 ones that experience the most volatility like extreme volatility yeah and so if you're accustomed

00:37:43.300 to like i've been in the space for eons for me like i don't give a shit per se but if you haven't been 0.86

00:37:48.420 accustomed to it and emotionally you're attached to your investments then it's just better off to hold

00:37:53.780 the underlining asset that represents that ecosystem in this case that would be eth eth ethereum yeah that

00:37:59.060 makes sense yeah um all of these um tokens that we're talking about the d5 tokens they've had a pretty

00:38:05.220 big run up recently they're also very different than 2017 because these are actually value accrued

00:38:10.580 they collect fees they pay out kind of like dividends per se these aren't like these literally

00:38:15.060 act as like money market type of tokens they're like people call it quasi equity but it's not per se

00:38:23.780 equity it doesn't really pass the uh like if you look at the standard uh what are they called how we

00:38:28.260 test you know some of them maybe but majority of them they're very different and they're like a whole

00:38:32.900 different realm of of how you classify them

00:38:38.740 so i've written down ave synthetic sushi ksm and rune those are the top five that i'm going to keep

00:38:45.220 an eye on is that a safe bet yeah but like also you can do you can do classical portfolio leveraging or

00:38:54.020 i would say betting where portfolio size so you can you can you can do the

00:38:58.340 prey and spray type of model where you might do you know different weights on different ones you might

00:39:04.900 do yearly rotations um or if you have true convictions and your t plus preference is high

00:39:12.020 you do very weighted um so you got to figure out what your type of risk to reward profile is what your

00:39:18.020 t plus preference is per se um also if you're short term long term because if people are planning to

00:39:24.020 cash out depending on where you are geographically uh you want to hold it for x amount of time so you

00:39:28.820 pay long term cap gains versus short term cap gains and if you're trading it then that's income tax per

00:39:34.980 se um and so basically i always say figure out how you're mentally wired figure out what your t plus

00:39:41.460 time preference is and what your conviction is and then make a smaller but heavier bets

00:39:48.580 um somebody wanted me to ask you about the best platform for day trading i know you more more or

00:39:53.060 less hold but what do you think i don't day trade per se and like gas fees on ethereum right now are crazy

00:40:00.020 like people use centralized exchanges like ftx is really good check them out

00:40:03.940 mm-hmm okay all right i hope you guys got something out of this uh looks like we're getting

00:40:12.420 some good feedback here uh one of the best play and win episodes of all time thank you so much

00:40:17.060 learning about crypto so guys if you want to get started and you're not involved you need to start

00:40:22.100 with just simply acquiring whatever bitcoin you can get it doesn't have to be a full bitcoin you can buy

00:40:26.820 20 bucks worth of it um in the description i link to the easiest exchanges to get started whether

00:40:32.900 you're in canada or the us go there listen there's there listen there's simple stuff people can do

00:40:37.460 now depending on where you are like this place is like uh uh full disclosure i'm an advisor for them

00:40:42.980 uh but there's a company in canada called leden l-e-d-n.io where yeah use that actually yeah hey man

00:40:51.540 they'll give you like six to ten percent it kind of fluctuates but let's say in that range they give you

00:40:55.140 six to ten percent you put your bitcoin in and you earn interest in bitcoin you don't earn interest in

00:40:59.700 canadian dollars yeah if united states uh be block uh blockified so you know it's not just

00:41:05.940 simply i know there's a meme what does pet rock do but there are services out there if you want to

00:41:11.780 dox yourself obviously you have to do kyc aml yada yada but basically you can be earning 60 10 percent

00:41:18.340 in bitcoin per month by putting your bitcoin there yeah i use it it's it's real straightforward and if you

00:41:25.060 want to double your bitcoin they have a program where you can kind of like stake whatever you've

00:41:29.300 put in there on deposit and they'll lend you at a reasonable interest rate so that you can double

00:41:34.740 the amount of bitcoin that you have within a short period of time programs also people you understand

00:41:40.100 especially north america so if you take your collateral let's let's say bitcoin or eth and you

00:41:46.980 put it as collateral whether it's on a centralized exchange like this or money market or whether it's

00:41:52.180 on a d5 money market and you take a loan out that's tax-free yeah um actually before we go

00:41:58.260 i wanted to ask you on what your view is of the narrative that i i mean i first heard it from

00:42:02.580 michael saylor but he was talking about how he's looking at bitcoin as digital real estate that you

00:42:08.340 kind of want to just hold like it's a valuable piece of manhattan property and if you ever need money

00:42:13.220 you know you can borrow against it like do you think that um we're seeing this transition that way

00:42:17.940 i've never sold a bitcoin in my life i've done this for years yeah i've i've i've made the mistake 0.51

00:42:24.100 of selling it a couple of times and it costs me more to buy the shit back that i sold whatever so 0.88

00:42:28.580 basically basically you you vote you lean against it like real estate that's it yeah so you can borrow

00:42:34.500 against it it's the only the only this is a copy this is a copy go ahead loan to value for real estate 0.65

00:42:40.820 can go up to 90 meaning i can take a shit ton of fucking cash out of my properties okay and my properties 0.93

00:42:46.260 aren't volatile going like this you know what i mean and so we have a lot of liquidation events 0.94

00:42:51.380 last year was a big one in march i think it dropped i don't know like 50 50 you dropped 50 so depending

00:42:56.980 on your loan to value ratio uh and depending on how fast you were um a lot of people got liquidated

00:43:03.220 billions of dollars got liquidated because the loan to value ratio was low and so it's not quite

00:43:08.740 there yet we're like oh uh i can put a million dollars worth of bitcoin and take huge amounts of equity

00:43:14.740 from that cash right so loans value ratio it seems right yeah yes because of volatile like

00:43:22.100 people think okay i'll give you this example like based on the logarithm and based on the same pattern

00:43:29.620 and fibonacci sequence and moore's law bitcoin should hypothetically run up to 200 000 in this bull market

00:43:38.260 hypothetically ethereum to 10 hypothetically could be complete nothing burgers but if you're looking at

00:43:43.460 previous charts and previous behavior per se um but then you expect a 50 drawback most likely

00:43:52.100 then you have a new lower base right so if it's 200 the new low base is 100 right that's kind of like

00:43:56.660 the support base per se and so it all depends i tell people for now you're not in that situation as of

00:44:03.780 today where like i have that same option with real estate where i can take just a huge amount of equity

00:44:09.140 in cash from it um so that that's just one one thing to keep in mind and to keep in mind that

00:44:14.900 if you over leverage yourself no different real estate people over leverage themselves in 2008 and

00:44:20.020 and in canada was in 1989 and 1990 1990 1991 when interest rates went double digits and so basically

00:44:26.420 if you just keep your ratio low you can you can perpetually just keep on taking a lean against your

00:44:32.340 crypto yeah i'm i'm seeing it become a more obvious trend where it's where it's where it's so valuable

00:44:40.100 that um the loan to value rates are going to start to go up i mean yeah there may be 50 right now but

00:44:46.820 as you start to see the value of bitcoin and and more mass adoption like when it bridges the gap again

00:44:51.700 from early adopter to mass adoption um in my mind in my mind um 500k bitcoin is it's it's in our view

00:45:00.580 yeah oh yeah uh i mean we're going to be up over 100 000 before the end of the year for sure maybe

00:45:07.060 even by the summer time what do you think uh yeah it all depends you know there's you know as long as

00:45:12.660 no black swan events happen per se but if you're looking at previous past history and bro it doesn't

00:45:17.700 even matter if there's a black swan event you know you bring a pandemic on and all they do is they 1.00

00:45:21.220 fucking just like put a big fat band-aid on and it pretends to go away it's it's it's just bonkers 0.96

00:45:25.860 but there are dark sides so i made a twitter post about there are dark side uh people are 0.99

00:45:32.660 i'll say this you're not too late for bitcoin but you're not too early you are getting priced out

00:45:37.620 through the canon lenin effect michael sailor he creates he creates a receipt i'm going to raise a

00:45:43.780 billion dollars at almost zero percent interest rates and take this cash and have a premium on this

00:45:49.220 money and i'm going to buy bitcoin and front-run retail okay richard and i can't do that well

00:45:56.900 maybe if we really try hard we can't but per se we're not going to do that 99.99 percent of people

00:46:02.980 don't do that this is no different than when the fed prints money and gives it to wall street or gives

00:46:09.060 it to their crony friends and they have a premium on the dollar what that means with the canon

00:46:13.620 lenin effect is uh they're sitting on trillions of dollars that have hasn't entered into the

00:46:19.860 liquidity pool of the economy so i can then go out there and buy assets um not secretly openly i just

00:46:27.460 buy the assets but then once i buy the assets once the money goes into the economy into the liquidity

00:46:33.860 pools i then have there's a premium there's an inflation on the asset and so i tell people it's not too

00:46:40.980 early sorry it's not too late but it's not too early man you're literally getting priced out on

00:46:44.820 a day-to-day basis yeah just buy it just don't ask like oh it's too expensive do you think it's going

00:46:50.900 to crash it's going to go to zero what about peter schiff you know he says gold is a thing just just

00:46:54.980 buy it i know the funniest is i made i made a twitter post about it last year or a year and a half goes

00:46:59.460 like it's never it's never going to reach 50k yeah and then he's like oh

00:47:05.140 the funniest thing his son is hardcore bitcoiner it trolls him that's hilarious i don't know i just

00:47:14.260 start using twitter now to troll people i just tell them to off now all right bro appreciate it

00:47:20.340 i got a bunch of good notes i hope you guys got something out of this i mean it shed some light on

00:47:24.100 for uh me anyway so thanks for hopping on if you want to learn more about bitcoin i did a cast like the

00:47:30.260 week before with brad who's a mutual friend of ours um so the so the prior episode of this i did with

00:47:35.460 brad on bitcoin go watch that if you could you know if you want to learn some more about just you

00:47:38.660 know specifically just bitcoin all right man thanks a lot

Playing to Win - March 02, 2022

033 - What DeFi is & Why it Matters To Your Future

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