Playing to Win - 060 - Ryan Michler

00:00:00.000 all right guys what's up we're on the 60th installment of the playing to win series

00:00:06.000 uh joined today with uh ryan from order of man how you doing brother what's up man i i knew this

00:00:12.680 was just a matter of time so glad we could finally make this thing work yeah i've um so i mean i

00:00:18.640 mentioned this to you in the dms um you know the other week and uh i came across a video of yours

00:00:24.340 ages ago it must have been around 2015 or 16 i don't know if you'd produced around that time

00:00:30.320 it was even older but there was this like shell of a guy talking to a camera about um basically

00:00:37.280 losing his kids and his wife and uh he was going to fix all of that um and i was rooting for you i

00:00:43.320 was like you know this guy seems like he's uh decent he wants to do the right thing so i kind

00:00:46.980 of want to start from there because i mean like the theme of this podcast is playing to win and

00:00:50.520 there's a big difference between playing to win and playing not to lose um you you've shown me

00:00:55.820 you know without a doubt um that you've done quite a lot with your life over this period of time you've

00:01:01.240 got a very very successful podcast i think it ranks in the top 30 in the business category now

00:01:05.780 it does yeah i think 22 yesterday so we're trying to crack that top 10 man we're gonna make it happen

00:01:10.820 yeah and you've also started a podcast with your son i think it's called making a man or

00:01:16.520 or the man in the making man in the making man in the making yeah yeah i listened to that with

00:01:20.760 my daughter the other day because i was like oh awesome about doing something like this right

00:01:24.140 and she's just like yeah let's check it out so we went there's nothing like it there's nothing like

00:01:28.700 it in the market right now um i looked all over high and low and my son and i wanted to do that for

00:01:33.300 some time because he wants to be like me he's like a clone except for the beard um and so i'm like

00:01:38.600 let's do it man so we did it and there's nothing like it and i'm telling you the feedback that we've

00:01:42.760 received from fathers with their daughters fathers with their sons has been amazing so so proud that

00:01:48.780 we could be able to do that tell me about the growth that you went through from that shell of

00:01:53.300 a guy that i talked about earlier um you know in that video where you're like what did you say in

00:01:57.860 that video exactly because i mean obviously you made it so you know exactly what happened what you

00:02:01.560 stated so can you talk about that and sort of like yeah like the storyline arc you know between

00:02:05.700 then and now for sure yeah i think the video you're referring to was a video i talked about

00:02:11.460 the separation with my wife i think i titled it why my wife left me because i've always been a

00:02:16.220 pretty good marketer so i knew that would get a lot of attention you know uh and i actually took

00:02:23.320 that video i don't do this anymore and maybe i ought to revisit that but i took that video down because

00:02:27.480 so many a-holes just misinterpreted what i was saying and i just i didn't want to get in the

00:02:32.120 bullcrap of them trying to you know paint me as a beta or a cuck or all these terms you know people

00:02:37.540 throw around but you know admittedly i was in that camp that you just said earlier of playing

00:02:42.360 not to not to lose um and and i was just trying to like grasp on to some semblance of my life before

00:02:49.680 my wife left me and frankly at the time a lot of my universe revolved around her you know i didn't

00:02:55.700 realize that until she left uh and took my one-year-old son at the time um oh it's just the one child that

00:03:02.640 you had just one at the time yeah we have four now we have four now but it was just one at the

00:03:06.560 time okay uh and so for a long time man i really blamed her i was like how could she do this why

00:03:12.380 was she disloyal she didn't appreciate you know what i was doing and what i'm trying to grow my

00:03:17.200 business for the family and i remember i was driving down the road and i came to the conclusion

00:03:24.520 so we're knee deep in our separation that holy shit maybe maybe this isn't like just her

00:03:30.920 maybe there's like maybe i have something to do with it uh and i i had just at that point

00:03:38.360 written off the marriage thinking this thing was over and at that point it was very cathartic for me

00:03:43.480 because i went to work on myself um i started getting to shape i started dialing my finances my

00:03:48.700 business started growing i started getting back into some spiritual elements of my life that i had let go

00:03:54.260 um i i built new friendships i hired her mentor like i was kicking ass and it was like flipping a

00:04:00.900 switch on the wall you know she she responded to that she saw that and and i came to this conclusion

00:04:06.320 that you know we can't control people which is what i was trying to do like if she did this and she did

00:04:11.500 that and i just need her to change then my life would be great and i moved from hey i'm not going to

00:04:16.820 try to control people anymore i'm going to live my life the way i want to live it i'm going to do the

00:04:20.820 best i can the way i see fit and then i'm going to have faith that that's going to influence people

00:04:25.340 in my life positively her my kids um people that might be inspired by what we're doing here

00:04:30.820 and so i i've i've i've let go of the the need to like change people and prove to people like what

00:04:38.840 they should do i'm just going to shine as a beacon to the best of my ability and let the chips fall

00:04:43.000 where they may um and that's proved to be instrumental not only in my marriage but in the

00:04:47.240 business in the movement as well what's the like what was the catalyst that caused you guys to part

00:04:52.100 ways at that time uh you know i don't think it was just one thing i remember we got into a fight

00:04:57.520 one evening about who knows what i don't even remember uh and uh i said i i remember this i vividly

00:05:05.180 remember this i said i don't even want to be married to you anymore and she said i agree i don't

00:05:09.420 either and the next morning uh i was supposed to go four hours north for some training in my business

00:05:16.700 and i got about an hour north i'm like man what the hell are you doing and i turned around and came

00:05:22.140 home and i was like hey look like yeah obviously that's that's not what i believe but then it was

00:05:27.640 too little too late then she was gone um i just think there was a lot of contention and animosity

00:05:32.940 that had built up in a relationship i spent some time overseas with the military and when i got back

00:05:37.920 we had only been married for six months when i left and when i got back it was like trying to

00:05:42.340 like date again but we were married and then i was trying to grow my financial planning practice and

00:05:49.060 i was frustrated because i i didn't know how to do it and i felt inadequate and i was overweight and

00:05:55.640 out of shape i was a loser man uh and i took all of that frustration out on the person whose fault

00:06:03.700 her responsibility it wasn't my wife it was my responsibility and i didn't pin that on myself i

00:06:09.140 pinned it on her and then i played these little manipulation games and made her feel like shit

00:06:13.760 that that had something to do with her um so you know that boiled over that evening and uh man that

00:06:20.540 was a dark time of my life really was it was it was very obvious in that video like i i don't have

00:06:27.020 you know the copy of it because you took it down but i vividly remember thinking to myself wow this

00:06:31.060 guy's like hit the bottom yeah man you know is he gonna keep digging down or is he gonna you know

00:06:35.780 climb his way out of this one um and it sounds like you did something with all that so it sounds

00:06:40.960 like you kind of um made what i call making your wounds your work right like i did something similar

00:06:46.060 with my channel too right and um you know you took that trauma of um you know the wounds that you were

00:06:52.020 dealing with and you kind of made it like the body of your work you created the podcast you created

00:06:55.760 your um i think it's um it's a community called the iron council is it it is yeah that's our kind

00:07:02.000 of our exclusive brotherhood that we have yeah can you can you talk about the podcast and how that

00:07:07.180 started to take off and and how that changed your life i i think your wound your wounds or your work

00:07:13.380 is a great way to put it um i created something that i needed you know i didn't have it i looked

00:07:17.740 around and i was like man i really need some guys in my corner you know i had forsaken all my

00:07:21.840 friends because i got married and that's one of the first things to go is your your own health

00:07:26.380 and then your buddies so i felt like a i honestly i felt like a sack of shit like calling my friends

00:07:33.680 up and say hey bro my wife left me can we hang out so i didn't even do that because i felt like such a

00:07:38.380 loser um so i had to go out and find new friends but the guys that i was surrounded with seemed more

00:07:43.180 interested in the party or the whatever that i that i was video games things that i wasn't interested in

00:07:48.480 so i'm like man what what is out there you know what's out there and there were some things like

00:07:52.560 art of manliness was a big influence early on for me and i think brett mckay does some incredible work

00:07:58.400 in fact i still am connected with him and follow him closely um but i thought there was a big

00:08:03.520 disconnect between the information that we as men have access to and then what we're actually doing

00:08:08.060 and nobody was in my corner saying ryan you're failing you're struggling here's what you should do

00:08:12.520 here's how you should fix it so i said all right well i gotta create it and i had a podcast um

00:08:17.020 before order of man called wealth anatomy and i was focused on giving financial advice to medical

00:08:22.940 professionals because that was my line of work uh and i realized man i love podcasting i love getting

00:08:27.780 behind this microphone and having these conversations i don't want to have that conversation but there's a

00:08:33.180 handful of guys i want to talk with because i need some mentorship i need some guidance and direction

00:08:37.440 in my life uh but they don't have any reason to talk with me so i'll create a podcast and tell them

00:08:42.760 i'll promote it to my audience who was probably like two people at that point um and it worked

00:08:47.320 you know like they i'm the biggest recipient even to this day 850 plus podcasts later man every time i

00:08:53.600 get to have a conversation with you or other people i'm like dang this is my job really this is awesome

00:08:59.200 yeah so it's been powerful yeah it's pretty awesome being able to have enough influence where you can

00:09:04.640 reach out to some interesting people and have um you know beyond interesting conversations um it sounded

00:09:10.560 like you you sort of changed your your network to a pretty significant degree as you were making

00:09:16.340 your wounds your work like there there were obviously people that you had to let go of like

00:09:20.760 how did you make those decisions like i call these anchors and sales right like there's people that

00:09:24.520 are anchors that are going to hold you back that you got to cut loose and there's of course sales

00:09:28.020 that will you know you you uh you know you cast up and it fills with wind and it you know takes

00:09:32.560 your next uh port of call sort of thing like how did you how did you go through the process of

00:09:36.700 deciding you know like who's who's going to come along for the ride and who you got to let go of

00:09:41.680 i i didn't have anybody in my circle at that point i i really didn't anybody worth having in my circle

00:09:48.200 anyways you know i mean that that's not entirely fair you know i had i had family members and things

00:09:54.140 who cared about me you know things like that but that's not what i'm referring to uh you know what

00:09:59.260 i actually started doing is not eliminating people from my life but being very conscious about who i

00:10:04.320 wanted in my life and so i started attending conferences and started reaching out to people

00:10:09.280 and connecting with them on social media going to events creating my own events and then i just

00:10:15.220 realized through through that process i started to look around i'm like man i don't have any losers in

00:10:20.400 my circle not because i actively cut them out but because i was actively pursuing the right kind of

00:10:26.040 people in high caliber men in my corner and then the other thing i would say is trying to be valuable

00:10:31.500 to those guys like i didn't feel i felt really inadequate initially when i was trying to spend

00:10:37.620 time with these high achievers and the men i was inspired by and and looked up to but i i realized

00:10:44.660 if i don't belong here then i got to figure out a way to belong here and what can i do i can add value

00:10:49.860 how did you do that thing that i did yeah the thing that i did is i just started making introductions

00:10:55.260 i mean like i i didn't have anything personally i felt like i could add but i would listen hey rich

00:11:01.640 needs has this problem he needs an introduction and and joe over here has this problem but he can solve

00:11:08.180 riches so like what if i sync these guys up and i started becoming an frankly at the risk of sounding

00:11:15.580 arrogant an incredible networker and i was listening for problems i was listening for people who provided

00:11:21.300 solutions and then i was learning how to make those connections in the most effective way and then just

00:11:26.120 get out of the way like that's it just let the chips fall where they may and get out of the way

00:11:30.300 and i've done that tens if not hundreds of thousands of times at this point and i've become pretty

00:11:34.980 invaluable in in some people's lives because i'm a champion for them i look for their problems and i help

00:11:40.340 them solve those problems through connections i might not be able to fix anything but i can make a

00:11:44.740 connection to somebody who can how did you figure out the importance of making those connections like

00:11:48.360 when was that you know like epiphany moment like the frying pan to the forehead like wow this is

00:11:52.820 important this actually opens doors i i don't know if there was a moment where i'm like oh this will

00:11:57.620 work because that almost sounds like you're gaming it and it might sound like i'm gaming it now as

00:12:01.740 you're listening to this but you just have to care about people like that's it i i shouldn't have to say

00:12:08.620 that but it seems like i do especially in this like over marketing digitized world of trying to like

00:12:14.660 game and manipulate every relationship that you have for your benefit but like i care about people

00:12:19.700 you know i i want people to win i want to see them thrive just like you said you watched that video

00:12:24.520 you didn't know me at the time but you're like man i hope this guy makes it because you care about

00:12:28.140 people and if you care about people then you're going to get your own ego out of the way and your

00:12:32.680 own pride i will say that got in the way there was times where i'm like okay i'm going to keep score

00:12:37.340 like i introduced rich to joe and they did this deal and now joe and rich oh me man that doesn't

00:12:44.260 that doesn't equate to care that's manipulation that's like i it's not even a gift like i'm trying

00:12:49.760 to get something from you so i don't know i just i've always cared about people you know i i was raised

00:12:55.560 by primarily a single mother um and and bless her heart she she's one of the most caring people i know

00:13:02.540 so maybe i learned it from her i remember one story that we had this um we had this postman he

00:13:08.560 was he was kind of a jerk i remember him being a jerk and uh and my mom i don't know why i remember

00:13:14.540 this story but my mom like made it her mission to make that guy her friend and he just seemed

00:13:21.740 miserable i remember that as a young kid but she would on holidays like give him a plate of cookies or

00:13:27.480 put a cake out for him when he when he brought the mail and over time man sure enough like he became

00:13:34.880 such a pleasant person to be around and he would smile and he would greet us and i'm like whoa this

00:13:41.180 is cool and i think that's quite an epiphany moment for me of just treating people well and letting the

00:13:47.180 results and the chips fall where they may when you do i i you know since you brought up that thing

00:13:52.680 about being raised by um by your mom like what happened your dad uh so my dad and mom split when

00:13:59.680 i was about three years old uh unfortunately he got into drugs and alcohol um and my mom decided you

00:14:06.580 know she didn't want to raise me and my sister in that environment to her credit of course uh because

00:14:12.140 i think it would have been easier in a lot of ways for her to stick around and stay and just keep us in

00:14:16.480 that environment but she pulled us from that environment um my dad's a good man you know uh we had our

00:14:22.340 man we had a lot of a lot of challenges in our relationship he died actually three years ago

00:14:28.080 um unfortunately and i he was in the hospital my mom called me and long story short um i was i was

00:14:36.260 driving to go see him and she calls me about 30 minutes out she's like where are you i'm like i'm

00:14:40.200 coming i got there he died 30 minutes before i got there you know and so um man i never got to say

00:14:47.200 goodbye there's a lot of things that were unsaid between us um and in another life you know we'll have

00:14:52.040 those conversations uh there's a lot of redeeming qualities about him but you know a lot of things

00:14:57.560 that uh i think he could have done better and i think uh if he'd be here in this conversation right

00:15:01.680 now he'd probably say the same thing so i'm trying to i'm trying to redeem i don't know this is a

00:15:07.940 weird i haven't talked about it like this but i'm trying to redeem myself and in a way trying to

00:15:12.360 redeem him and live for him and the decisions that i think in another life he would have made

00:15:16.720 differently did he spend much time with you when you're growing up or was it most of your mom

00:15:20.120 yeah that was mostly my mom but you know we lived in in different areas of the state california and

00:15:25.940 then i moved to utah so i didn't see him a whole lot but i saw him about once a year maybe twice a

00:15:30.980 year not a lot but man we had some good times you know we built pinewood derby cars together and did

00:15:36.640 legos together and watched uh american gladiator together that was a big one like and wwe yeah man

00:15:44.400 um so we had a relationship your old that's not on uh trt apparently yeah that's right um we had a

00:15:53.120 good a good enough relationship as you could when you only see your father once a year twice a year

00:15:57.020 maybe and like one of the things that i've noticed as a general trend because i because i've coached um

00:16:03.620 probably well over a thousand guys now like one-on-one whenever there's a guy that's been

00:16:07.140 raised by a single mom um it always seems like they start life from a position of um

00:16:13.920 they're missing something right like it's a bit of a disadvantage you know they're uh softer they're

00:16:20.180 a little more beta they're more accommodating they're humble to a fault um did you find yourself

00:16:26.300 um in a position when you came in your like teen years you know like young adulthood where you had to

00:16:32.560 sort of like figure that out like how do i how do i uh reconcile you know dealing with this feminine

00:16:39.320 influence growing up with this need to be a man i didn't i didn't feel it to that level when i was a

00:16:46.540 kid um i do remember vividly having a very hard time relating with other young men like even my

00:16:52.860 friends and i had friends you know i was social i played football i played sports i don't know i just

00:16:57.540 didn't feel confident man like i always felt like just some underlying level of inadequacy or i wasn't

00:17:04.440 like cool enough or you know i didn't belong there and i was kind of just a visitor and just partaking

00:17:10.660 but not really part of the club you know i didn't feel like i was part of the tribe i kind of felt like

00:17:16.340 the token guy who's just like kind of hovering around and you know but i was a popular kid i was

00:17:20.880 athletic you know so from the outside looking in you think oh that guy's got it all figured out and i

00:17:25.660 had some real self-esteem issues i mean even 10 years ago maybe even less even having this conversation

00:17:31.400 with you i'd be intimidated by it you know and i think a lot of these guys that grow up with overly

00:17:35.980 feminine influences in their lives misinterpret assertiveness strength uh conviction for you know

00:17:43.840 being an asshole or or overbearing or dominant and i don't see that anymore because i've been able

00:17:49.700 to build that confidence over time where i look at somebody like yourself or other people i've had

00:17:54.060 interactions with and think i'm not intimidated like i'm impressed you know i'm inspired um and

00:17:58.780 i love having conversations like this um talk to me about marriage and kids because i mean it it seems

00:18:05.700 like your um best material or the stuff that people seem to recognize you for the most is sort of like

00:18:12.960 built around that uh family dynamic that like the traditional conservative like the tradcon sort of

00:18:18.960 values um talk about the expectations that you had as a man getting into marriage versus the reality

00:18:26.660 of what you experienced once you were in it and then the kids started to arrive yeah i mean it's it's

00:18:32.400 um it's a hard thing you know it's uh it's been a challenge oh rich hold on one quick second i just

00:18:38.080 gonna close this door up stuff like this happens live we don't we don't record these and edit we

00:18:44.880 just do them live boys let me grab a couple of these super chats while he's doing that got uh

00:18:49.040 dragos on the line getting ready for forum this afternoon and uh dude says whether you are raised

00:18:55.800 by a single mom or a masculine dominated mom married to your beta father results are still the same

00:18:59.840 sorry man you were about to go ahead and uh chime in on that yeah no i was gonna say it was a

00:19:05.900 challenge because i really didn't have um a model you know i i don't i didn't know what a good marriage

00:19:11.780 looked like i didn't know what a good relationship looked like i i kind of always felt especially now

00:19:17.080 as i have a father i'm a father of four um i've always felt like i've been a father at heart

00:19:22.280 in a way like maybe old for for my years and i feel like even just now i'm coming into it for myself

00:19:28.600 but yeah i never had an example of of what it was supposed to look like and how a husband honors his

00:19:34.740 wife and raises his children man i just didn't see that so i struggled as evidenced by our step

00:19:40.980 the separation i had with my wife um man i struggled and it was a challenge and it was a chore and i'm

00:19:47.460 like i don't know what to do and i'm trying to leave my family and i'm trying to grow this business and i

00:19:51.320 don't know how to do this and i was losing my cool and calm and patience i call it losing your frame

00:19:56.720 like i had no frame not even i didn't even lose my frame i had no frame whatsoever uh and so i had

00:20:03.940 to build that and when i started to build that for myself is where the marriage changed because

00:20:08.040 i mean let's be real that's that's what a woman generally i think not always not exclusively but

00:20:14.200 generally a woman's looking for a man with a frame with some balls somebody who's going to lead them

00:20:18.580 in a masculine way and i didn't have it and that's why my wife responded the way she did

00:20:22.600 and the way that she responds now to the way i lead so so when you use the word frame i think i

00:20:28.960 understand it the same way that you use it um you know in every relationship there's there's a frame

00:20:35.580 of the guy and there's a frame of the woman and generally speaking whoever enters the other person's

00:20:42.080 frame becomes the leader in that relationship i think for the most part today it seems like most guys

00:20:47.680 enter the woman's frame and um like i see uh content out there now around female-led relationships

00:20:58.200 like there's actually like social media sites and there's blogs that are built around this now where

00:21:02.700 it's like they encourage women to make women like men less so they can become more and then the man

00:21:08.880 enters their frame and sort of like you know serves them you know they you know the man puts her up on a

00:21:13.180 pedestal did you ever do that like that's not how your marriage runs right now like it sounds like

00:21:18.800 she's in your frame yeah i would say that um and i don't know if i ever went into her frame the way

00:21:28.040 that you're explaining it necessarily but what you're saying makes sense i haven't heard it described

00:21:33.480 that way but as you're saying that i'm thinking to myself yeah that makes sense because as a young man

00:21:39.760 who doesn't have a dad in his life whose frame are you in well you're in your mother's frame

00:21:44.660 she leads everything she makes all the decisions she makes the financial decisions she tells you when

00:21:50.340 to eat what to eat like everything right and so if you've never had that masculine presence where you

00:21:56.440 have a father who's not telling you to like i don't want my my boys i have three boys and a girl i don't

00:22:02.040 want my boys to perpetually live under my thumb like i want them to go out like my son the other day

00:22:08.600 he got mad about something and i saw it in his eyes and he challenged me like not physically but

00:22:14.240 he challenged me in a way i hadn't seen before he's almost 14 now and i'm like this is good this

00:22:20.700 this is what i want like like now look you're gonna challenge me in my house like i'm gonna win that

00:22:27.500 battle all day long but this is a healthy behavior i want to see this in you but uh but uh but a boy who

00:22:34.100 doesn't have that is always going to be under the wing of his mother and so when he leaves the nest

00:22:39.200 and he's out on his own he's like oh he's lost he's confused he's scared and so he finds a woman

00:22:44.680 who has the same frame as his mother and then he becomes her uh her um her her child you know and so

00:22:52.660 i i think what you're saying is it's pretty accurate although i'd never heard it explained that way

00:22:57.560 it makes sense yeah um dude is desi has a question for you says what's the best way to beat out decades

00:23:04.240 of beta tization you gotta you gotta spend time with other men like you have to do masculine things

00:23:11.580 and you have to be around those kind of men that you want to be around because when i spend time with

00:23:15.360 other men they're not beta type men they're strong courageous bold assertive convicted men and and i

00:23:23.300 learn from them what that looks like and we do masculine activities and and and so we we spend

00:23:29.980 time in the wilderness together we push each other we do jujitsu together we try to beat each other

00:23:34.840 up in a controlled environment of course you know so that changes you that's the great thing about

00:23:41.400 it is that you can learn if you i have a lot of guys will reach out and they'll say hey i didn't

00:23:44.980 have a dad in my life and i don't know how to be a man so like what do i do now well like it's not

00:23:48.920 too late you just need what you needed 20 years ago you just do it now yeah you might behind be

00:23:54.980 behind the eight ball a little bit but okay so one of the first things i tell guys to do is to join a

00:24:00.340 dojo and start fighting for sure 100 100 i'll let me give you an example um i don't i'm not gonna

00:24:08.840 like say names or anything here and i'll try to be pretty general here but like i've i've trained

00:24:12.940 jujitsu and when another man puts his hands on you and grabs you you can tell a lot about that

00:24:17.360 individual immediately right um and and i've been training with a couple of guys who have just got

00:24:21.980 it started and they grab you and it's almost like feminine in a way when when they put their hands

00:24:27.200 on you and it's like it's like hey man and i told i told somebody the other day i'm like like like grab

00:24:33.580 me like you mean it like violently grab me and he had a hard time doing that and and i don't i don't

00:24:40.060 know his situation i'm jumping to conclusions here but i i think generally you you can see a lot

00:24:47.500 about the way that a man asserts himself especially in that physically heavy environment yeah they'll

00:24:54.580 come away with a nice lesson when you fold them into a pretzel in their clothing and send them home

00:24:58.240 right they might or they might run away and cower and never come back like that's up to them you know

00:25:04.960 and i like to see the guy just like i was who's like oh shit i never want that to happen to me

00:25:10.360 again that when i started training jujitsu you know i got beat up i got banged up and i didn't

00:25:15.540 i didn't run away i was like i gotta figure that out because there's no man who should ever be able

00:25:20.140 to do that to me again why did you pick rolling i mean there's a lot of options when it comes to

00:25:24.580 combat sports like why did you pick that is it is it just what you like did you try a bunch of

00:25:28.380 things and sort of settle on that no just proximity i had a couple of very close friends who

00:25:33.500 were involved in jiu-jitsu at the time and had been training for uh at the time about 10 years

00:25:39.020 10 plus years and so they said come come try jiu-jitsu okay man sounds good and fell in love

00:25:44.660 with it and i've been doing it ever since makes sense uh here i got a follow-up here he says you

00:25:49.000 definitely don't want to hear her sorry you don't want her to be the mom in the relationship or else

00:25:54.320 you become her surrogate baby and she'll treat you like one yeah one of the things that like

00:25:58.360 frustrates the hell out of women that turns them right off is when they feel like

00:26:02.860 they have another child and you're a grown-ass adult and they do not want to mother you they

00:26:08.160 don't want to be your mother i think they like it initially uh to some degree because it feels good

00:26:13.960 it's like oh i'm needed i'm important i'm special and then what they do is they carry their men around

00:26:19.400 in those little mini purses that you see women carrying at the airport and have their little lapdog

00:26:23.940 yeah yeah and they feel really special because they have purpose in their life and then it's like oh

00:26:30.060 this dog is exhausting i gotta clean up its shit and i gotta like take it everywhere and feed it and

00:26:35.840 i'm trying to just be over here so yeah it's it's nice at first but it loses its luster fairly quickly

00:26:41.840 yeah women women definitely prefer to be led they you know they want to look up to a giant they want

00:26:46.680 to be with somebody like that um talk to me about the beard right because somebody made a comment

00:26:52.300 somebody made a comment somewhere where is it there it is two good men two great beards of course

00:26:57.160 another bald man with a beard um talk to me about the beard because i mean it's gone through

00:27:00.740 not quite bald but it is trimmed down so yeah but well well i mean you've been through a couple of

00:27:05.320 different iterations of facial hair like you've kind of been like the masculine um real man real style

00:27:11.880 sort of model then then it's then it's grown long and scruffy then it's cut short like what's the

00:27:17.820 thinking behind the beard you know for you because i'm because i'm always curious about that when men

00:27:21.420 rock beards on a long-term basis yeah i uh so you talked about antonio with real men real style

00:27:28.840 yeah i actually went to his conference early on and i'm totally out of place i'm like i've dressed i

00:27:35.380 don't i don't think i wore a suit but like business casual which i don't wear it's just i'm so awkward

00:27:40.300 and uncomfortable but i went because i wanted to see what it was all about and uh i i think i was i

00:27:45.780 didn't i don't think i had a beard at the time and i saw eric bandholz with beard brand i don't do you

00:27:49.640 know him no okay anyway saw him he had the beard he's like you should grow a year so grow a beard

00:27:55.720 for a year without shaving and i'm like all right that sounds cool i like your beard i'll try it and

00:28:00.400 i did and i just and i liked it i liked having a beard um i like the fact that i could have

00:28:06.280 conversations about it or people would ask me about it so i got some attention from it but at some point

00:28:11.400 like it became more of a decoration than anything like meaningful or purposeful in my life you know

00:28:20.300 uh and it gets long doesn't it it is it's like like doing hair like i don't want to i don't want

00:28:28.040 to do hair like i've got other things to do i want to wake up and take a quick shower slap some deodorant

00:28:33.780 on and get to work and now i gotta like put beard oil like i gotta manage i don't want to do that

00:28:38.160 so um and and not to mention with training jujitsu i was losing like 10 of my beard every time i rolled

00:28:45.980 and i finally just got sick of it i'm like all right i'm done and i trimmed it to to your length

00:28:51.380 about maybe a little longer and you know i liked it and i trimmed it up this length and i did it shorter

00:28:56.840 with the mustache and this is about where i keep it now um just because i like it like i like the

00:29:03.920 way it looks i i like i don't know i i don't have any other purpose to it other than just it's just

00:29:09.680 me you know it just feels like it's part of me at this point it literally is i guess yeah well it

00:29:13.900 always i mean for me it became part of the brand i mean there was like one point about a year and a

00:29:18.300 half ago where i had like a rash under my beard and i was like fuck don't shave this thing off like

00:29:22.280 this is gonna be a problem right i gotta do i change the avatar like what do i go with now and

00:29:26.480 it's just yeah i kind of worked through it um well let's be honest though too rich i mean look

00:29:31.900 a beard is a pretty generally accepted sign of masculinity right and i'm not saying you have

00:29:39.240 to have a beard to be a man or be masculine but generally we accept a beard as being a an icon

00:29:44.180 of masculinity so yeah one of the characteristics that separates men from women right adult men of

00:29:49.500 women right it's it's very obvious i mean adult women don't grow beards until they're much older in

00:29:54.640 life sometimes but well it also depends on you know how you define a women a woman these days

00:29:59.120 anymore which seems to be subject to interpretation yeah we'll probably get into that i'm sure in this

00:30:04.020 conversation speaking of which so let's talk about toxic masculinity like when you hear that phrase

00:30:08.480 what does that mean to you like what do you think of look i'm trying to be pretty mature about the way i

00:30:13.900 see the situations and in experiences and phrases and so immediately i reject it you know like my

00:30:22.380 knee-jerk reaction is like that's stupid because i think what a lot of people are saying is that

00:30:27.580 masculinity is inherently toxic and and i know that also some people are saying nobody's saying that

00:30:33.600 they're saying that using masculinity in harmful ways is toxic i get i get both sides i can see both

00:30:39.400 sides you know i don't use the phrase uh teaches psychologists who approach men from the perspective

00:30:45.480 that that men are toxically masculine if you're going to be canceling them yeah because they did a

00:30:52.320 study years ago uh and they named four characteristics they i think it was stoicism aggressiveness dominant

00:30:59.500 dominance and competitiveness and they they said and i quote these things are inherently toxic to young

00:31:06.080 men those those things are not inherently competitiveness is inherently toxic that's what

00:31:11.620 they're trying to take out of society today right you know they want to give everybody a participation

00:31:15.340 trophy and there's no first place and second and third places just everybody gets a ribbon now right

00:31:20.660 yeah that's right so so here's how i look at it i and and i've really tried to flesh this out for

00:31:26.880 myself because i want to understand and i want to be reasonable about it and i want to be intelligent

00:31:31.320 about it too i don't think masculinity is it's amoral i don't think it's good or bad it just is

00:31:38.360 masculinity is basically a set of virtues characteristics behaviors based on biological

00:31:44.060 makeup that's it like if you strip everything else away that's what it is and that's not that's not

00:31:50.460 good nor bad it's just amoral so you have one camp that says masculinity is toxic as deemed by the apa

00:31:57.020 and you have the other camp that says no masculinity is good and we need it i don't agree with either i

00:32:02.640 think that we can harness violence or competitiveness or aggression or stoicism for productive outcomes and

00:32:11.360 i also think we can do some destructive shit with it so the way that i define it is that it's it's it's

00:32:18.480 amoral and then how you utilize it is what makes you a man so a man is somebody who's biologically male

00:32:25.860 it's a prerequisite and then how they're harnessing those masculine characteristics and traits for

00:32:31.320 productive outcomes for themselves and for the people they have responsibility for that's what

00:32:36.740 makes somebody manly or a man speaking of manly so talk about manly skills like is there a list of

00:32:43.080 traits or characteristics that you try to instill into your three sons

00:32:48.120 well so to zoom out a little bit um the framework that i look at manliness through is the ability to

00:32:57.420 protect provide and preside over ourselves over our loved ones and also over people who can't do it for

00:33:04.340 themselves uh now within within those broad you know categories yeah there's a lot of skills that we

00:33:12.960 would need to be able to to uh to meet those those three tenants um whether that's learning how to make

00:33:21.100 money learning how to market yourself learning how to communicate effectively learning how to defend

00:33:27.600 yourself learning how to use a firearm uh being vigilant being aware of your surroundings uh knowing

00:33:34.360 how to network knowing how to build a band of brothers anything that's going to help you become a better

00:33:39.240 protector provider presider is something that all men ought to tap into even expressing creativity like

00:33:46.620 a lot of a lot of i had a guy the other day he's like hey i want to uh what did you say i want to

00:33:51.440 learn how to paint but i'm i'm worried that's not manly what the hell are you talking like paint like

00:33:57.220 paint it's not a gender specific thing like it doesn't make you more manly or less manly what makes

00:34:04.740 you manly is learning how to paint and then selling your art so you can put food on the table

00:34:08.820 but you can do that painting or you can do that having a podcast or building a desk there's a

00:34:14.160 an infinite number of ways to do that it's not about the activity it's how you harness it

00:34:18.400 what are your what's your take on the version of feminism that exists today not the one that

00:34:27.460 i mean like you and i are pretty close to the same age i'm like the version that i remember growing up

00:34:32.960 was you know let's just you know try to make sure that women have an equal opportunity

00:34:38.440 you know sort of thing right um yeah today it it from my perspective it appears to be

00:34:45.720 more of a supremacy movement where it's not so much concerned about making women better it seems

00:34:51.160 more concerned about taking men down or making them less and uh not doing anything to improve

00:34:57.200 the state of women it removes femininity from the equation it's pretty much the way that i would

00:35:02.240 look at it like what's your take on the way that feminism looks like today

00:35:05.100 i i agree with what you just said um what i what i see is is that there is a movement and a growing

00:35:14.360 trend would and this is ironic because this feminist type movement that we see today will undermine and

00:35:21.120 mock and dismiss and ridicule masculinity and in the very next breath they'll tell women not directly

00:35:27.620 but this is their messaging is that you have to act like a man in order to be equal or better than a

00:35:32.020 man so it's like well which is it is masculinity and manliness harmful and destructive and bad or is

00:35:37.140 it that you should act more like a man so that you can be his equal and i don't think a woman acting

00:35:44.300 like a man makes her equal to to a man and makes her an inferior version of a woman like that's that's

00:35:51.480 the only outcome of it so when i you know when i look at women you know my wife is a great example of

00:35:56.900 this she's a stay-at-home mother she's a homemaker i just did a podcast with her uh earlier we were on

00:36:03.860 somebody else's podcast and the gentleman said how would you like me to introduce you and she said

00:36:08.260 uh wife and mother that's that's right because that that has her that's her greatest calling she's

00:36:15.440 wanted to do that and be that from the time that we she was little but the feminist movement we see

00:36:20.340 today would laugh and scoff at that oh oh you're you're gonna be inferior oh your your husband under

00:36:26.680 your thumb or you're under your husband's thumb i can't believe he's keeping you barefoot and pregnant

00:36:31.680 and she's over here thinking i'm just living my best life i'm here i'm supporting i'm nurturing i'm

00:36:38.260 guiding i'm counseling with him i'm turning this house into a home and so i have a real issue with

00:36:43.900 women's empowerment when it's not really about women's empowerment it's about turning women

00:36:49.560 into inferior versions of men yeah it's it's so bizarre because it's like the like the version

00:36:55.940 of feminism today seems to tell women that you can't do anything for the express pleasure of your

00:37:00.980 man make him a sandwich bring him breakfast uh you know bring him a a nice glass of iced tea while

00:37:06.840 he's working outside doing something you know for the you know for the household but they'll encourage

00:37:11.740 them to go and uh you know get a job get a degree frame it in mahogany with little letters after

00:37:16.320 their name and go and serve a boss who's probably you know more likely than not a man like that's

00:37:21.260 that's good serving your household is bad right right it's such a bizarre it's interesting i come

00:37:28.000 home from jujitsu uh two to three nights a week and when i get home food's on the counter you know and

00:37:36.320 i say what you know what did we have for dinner tonight she's like yeah we had you know steak and

00:37:40.360 potatoes and broccoli awesome uh i'm gonna go take a shower she's like great i'll warm up your food for

00:37:45.180 you and i come down and the food's warm and it's sitting there and it's beautiful and it's delicious

00:37:50.320 and i eat it and i honor her and she honors me that doesn't make her inferior she wants she's

00:37:56.000 expressing her love and admiration for me like this is a partnership she's expressing her gratitude

00:38:01.820 that doesn't make her like subservient or a slave or servant to me it's just this is the way that

00:38:09.080 she's expressing her gratitude and appreciation for the relationship that we have it does make her an

00:38:14.580 outlier today though i mean the vast majority of women especially in urban centers believe that

00:38:19.860 that's not the goal anymore the goal is right compete with men climb the corporate ladder get degrees and

00:38:25.480 then by the time they're like 40 and they've got two eggs left over they rush out to go out and try

00:38:31.060 to get married and have a family right yeah that's yeah that's what they you know usually end up with

00:38:35.880 they come to an epiphany at some point in their late 30s or even early 40s where they're like

00:38:39.680 i'm screwed i made some bad choices and this isn't really what i wanted right and they're

00:38:44.880 surrounded by a few cats and a box wine subscription and a a boss that they hate and a patriarchy that

00:38:50.020 they uh you know march against right yeah uh well it is it's a shame that they're being fed that line

00:38:57.460 that's the real issue is that they're being fed that line by a bunch of angry bitter women who did the

00:39:03.540 same thing and they want other people to do follow in their footsteps so they too can be miserable

00:39:08.180 it feels like a losing battle today though like what's your take on that because i mean i i'm i'm

00:39:13.740 kind of at the point now where it's where it's like i'm just just leave me alone don't tax me stay

00:39:19.800 out of my life i'll just enjoy the decline as things sort of unfold as time passes on right but um

00:39:26.040 you know there's there's others that uh haven't haven't gotten there or may not get there or may get

00:39:32.940 there at some point like i'm just curious uh about your take on that that role that society plays

00:39:38.860 today because like the way that you live and the way that you describe coming home from the dojo and

00:39:44.600 dinner's ready and you can take a shower and she'll heat it up and there's none of this like i remember

00:39:48.600 um you know a buddy of mine telling me once you know um you know recently married had a small child

00:39:52.900 that was about six or seven months old and he came home from work one day and he's like

00:39:56.100 you know uh hey sweetheart you know what's for dinner and uh she scoffed at him went to the freezer

00:40:01.180 took a bag of some frozen something other and whipped it at him and he was like yeah yeah he's

00:40:05.780 like what is this like what is i didn't sign up for this yeah i mean that's a bitter that's a bitter

00:40:11.640 move right like there's a lot of bitterness and contention in doing something like that now granted

00:40:16.500 like i'm not going to disrespect my wife by saying woman go make me a sandwich because that's what you

00:40:21.460 know some guy that's not what i do i'm not saying that at all like there's a balancing act here

00:40:25.300 like i've got to respect her too and the more i respect her the more she's going to respect me in

00:40:30.100 return and we're going to serve each other um so with with your your question about uh

00:40:37.080 the balance between you know disengaging and being engaged it's it's interesting man i just

00:40:42.780 i said i moved to maine uh we bought 50 acres out here we live in a very rural area

00:40:47.800 i too want to be left alone i don't i don't want you to bother me um i want to live my life i want to

00:40:53.540 raise my kids uh i don't i don't want to get into stuff that doesn't make sense to me or i think

00:40:58.480 is destructive i want to make a little money have some experiences like i want all of that

00:41:03.600 and more but i don't think that i get to absolve myself of what's going on in society so one of the

00:41:11.280 things that you said was pay less taxes or or just pay my taxes or not pay more taxes well if we don't

00:41:16.440 get involved like you're going to pay more taxes like that's the inevitable outcome is that there is

00:41:22.320 no there is no universe in which we'll be left alone it's a constant march against the way of

00:41:28.960 life that we enjoy and the way of life that we want to have and so is it a losing battle yeah man

00:41:35.240 probably in a lot of ways until it gets so bad that enough people wake up i i think probably it is

00:41:41.000 but the result or or the the the opposite is to do nothing and just to let it happen quicker

00:41:47.800 and i can't do that i what i want to do is i want to rally men around the concepts that we're sharing

00:41:56.240 and empower and embolden them to live a life of meaning and significance so that we can ward off

00:42:02.580 some of this nonsense before it gets too bad i know you're friends yeah it might be futile but man

00:42:07.720 important work yeah i know you're friends with jack donovan and um you know he's a friend of mine too and

00:42:13.400 i'm i'm gonna have him on my podcast again soon because it's the 10th anniversary for the way of

00:42:17.360 men um but um yeah like he's kind of of the opinion just to sort of like you know leave me

00:42:23.800 alone you know let it do what it's going to do and i'll just you know live my life the way that i want

00:42:28.440 to live it but the way of men is the way of the gang right and that's kind of the opening to his book

00:42:34.120 and i'm with you on the whole let's draw a perimeter and define who's on the outside and who's on the

00:42:40.660 sorry who's on the outside and who's on the inside and protect those that are on the inside

00:42:45.260 nurture them and live with them in harmony and peace and make sure if those on the outside try

00:42:50.120 to do anything to you guys on the inside then you're of course able to um you know respond

00:42:54.720 accordingly um but uh yeah it's difficult because it feels like you're a minority you know when you're

00:43:00.640 coming from a position of look just you know you guys i don't care what people do i don't care about

00:43:06.860 their orientation whether they think they're a z's or her what pronouns they use just don't force

00:43:11.980 your crap on me right well that but then also to go back to what i said earlier about protecting

00:43:18.300 providing and presiding part of that and i said it was to make sure that we do that for people who

00:43:23.300 can't do it for themselves so when i see gender ideology for example being shoved down the throats

00:43:28.980 of children who don't know any better and can't defend themselves you're damn right i'm going to say

00:43:33.360 something about it because it's not right to mutilate physically young boys and young girls or to

00:43:39.820 introduce them to permanent puberty and hormone suppressing type chemicals uh and then quite

00:43:47.660 literally permanently castrate these young children they can't defend themselves you know they're

00:43:53.540 physically of course but also mentally you know we homeschool our kids yeah i was gonna say like

00:43:58.540 you homeschool your kids so how do you go about you know defending those kids that might not be in a

00:44:03.880 position to have an opportunity like have a dad like you yeah so part of it is talking about it

00:44:10.800 of course but that doesn't always go far it never goes far enough just talking about it but it's also

00:44:15.000 rallying other men to do the same for their families that's why i've always been an outspoken

00:44:19.900 proponent not always more recently proponent of homeschooling and then i also encourage men to get

00:44:26.020 involved in their communities so that means coaching your sons and daughters baseball teams and sports

00:44:32.640 teams it means going to student council or excuse me um uh uh school board meetings getting involved

00:44:39.540 in pta getting involved in local politics so that we can do what we need to do to protect our youth

00:44:45.280 from these horrible horrible and destructive ideologies that are being presented with these days

00:44:51.000 speaking of ideologies what do you think of the uh mgtow movement the men going their own way thing

00:44:56.560 this has always been so i get this question quite often um i think there's some validity to what

00:45:05.500 they're sharing uh i think that if there wasn't it would be repulsive so you you have to dabble some

00:45:13.960 truth into it but to me it seems like whether it's the mgtow or the or or or the red pill movement

00:45:20.700 seems to be becoming an increasingly extreme version of confident courageous capable men and is in a way

00:45:30.620 turning into the extreme feminist version for men and i have a problem with that because you take young

00:45:38.520 men who are impressionable who are confused who don't have male influences in their lives and you teach

00:45:46.400 them that you're gonna you're gonna make them a badass by going their own way by by not being involved

00:45:52.060 with women by painting everything else as the enemy and i think that leads to a life of contention and

00:45:59.060 animosity and hostility and anger definitely not fulfillment what's the difference between mgtow and

00:46:05.920 the red pill movement as you see it um i i don't know i can't really answer that maybe i'm unfairly

00:46:13.200 lumping those two into the same category um and maybe you can enlighten me on that a little bit i've

00:46:19.280 just seen so much from it that i tend to just distance myself from from that arena because i don't

00:46:27.520 want to go there i really want to serve men in constructive ways and i don't see some of these

00:46:32.860 movements going that way yeah so um to kind of add some context to that so i was i was involved in

00:46:39.620 what was called the manosphere i've called it the manoswamp now um for the last couple years because

00:46:44.920 that's really what it looks like to me um and the guys that are mgtow are definitely red pilled but

00:46:51.320 the guys that are red pilled aren't necessarily going their own way right like there's a lot of

00:46:55.580 guys that are red pilled that understand women that understand you know what drives attraction what

00:47:01.140 drives you know women away um how to manage stuff over a long-term basis i think overall like being

00:47:08.080 red pilled and to me like i call it the you know like unplugging like i called my book the unplugged

00:47:12.660 alpha i know you've probably seen it because you know we follow each other on um sure yeah instagram

00:47:17.120 but my book was basically built around the notion that you definitely want to unplug and red pill

00:47:23.320 yourself and here's some ways that you can apply that to your life so that you can have better

00:47:28.520 experiences in life and with women i'm not opposed to dealing with women i'm in a long-term

00:47:34.340 relationship have been for a while now um i have a chapter in my book actually about mgtow i think

00:47:38.880 you'd like it because it kind of hits on some of the stuff that you're getting at but it goes a lot

00:47:42.680 deeper down the rabbit hole yeah i'd love to check it out yeah it's an interesting um like segment of

00:47:50.800 of like men's spaces because you see like you know the tradcon space the mgtow guys the black pill guys

00:47:58.500 the different color like there's all these different colors of pills now you know there's white purple red

00:48:03.200 blue it's like nobody can make up their lgbtq of of awakening pills yeah it's all of a sudden

00:48:09.400 turning into the alphabet soup of you know like like the alphabet crowd is now turning into different

00:48:14.280 colored pills right and everybody wants to like hold theirs you know the highest like this is the

00:48:18.320 best right if you don't subscribe to mine then i'm gonna hate you sort of thing so it's or or if you

00:48:22.940 don't subscribe to mine then i'm a victim of you which is even worse yeah yeah it's uh i guess if

00:48:29.540 according to what you're saying you know if you're saying it that way i i would consider myself red

00:48:34.680 pill in a way in that i i recognize it for what it is i'm not gonna um make myself subservient to

00:48:41.400 women or think that i'm inferior but i'm also not going to take it to the extreme and think that they

00:48:45.780 don't add an amazing dynamic to life that is so valued in a thriving society you know so i do get

00:48:55.540 very skeptical when we start placing uh these types of terms around it like manosphere which i

00:49:01.580 don't like i like mana swamp uh red pill meg tau uh it it concerns me because even tradcon then

00:49:12.100 it becomes tribal and the but aren't men tribal though yes but the way of men is the way of the gang

00:49:20.140 right it's true but if we can't expose ourselves to new information because we're so extremely tribal

00:49:27.380 that anything from the outside isn't a threat to us like here's an example is that in modern culture

00:49:34.260 especially on social media like people won't even have conversations i had phil robertson on the

00:49:39.480 podcast he's he's very spiritual um half of our conversation was him going through passages from

00:49:45.840 the bible which doesn't bother me that's fine if that's his context his framework in which he views

00:49:50.940 life which mine is somewhat overlapped not to the level his is that's fine but i had a guy say well

00:49:56.960 you know i'd be very careful of aligning yourself with him aligning because i had him on the podcast

00:50:01.220 yeah because i had a conversation with a man who's is saying something interesting yeah i don't have to

00:50:06.980 agree with everything he says yeah i get the same thing too like i'll talk to somebody that that like

00:50:11.600 one subscriber doesn't like and he's like unsubscribe it's like dude i don't care like

00:50:15.160 you really have to write that leave just go yeah exactly so i think i think it becomes a problem

00:50:21.420 when we cling so hard to our ideologies whatever side of the aisle or spectrum they're on that we

00:50:26.960 aren't willing to at least consider that maybe there's another way of looking at it and that's

00:50:32.040 what i mean when i say becoming tribal yeah yeah that's that's yeah that's a fair point i mean like

00:50:37.580 this is a you know this is potentially a very long conversation when it comes to these like tribal

00:50:42.480 natures of men and the different groups that they uh i mean i'm sure that you probably had some um

00:50:47.620 you know thoughts about this rich cooper guy right like when i reached out to you or like when you saw

00:50:51.380 me on instagram like what was your initial um thought well we've been following each other for

00:50:56.240 some time now so i follow what you do i like a lot of what you do i think we've had some brief

00:51:01.140 interactions we're like hey bro i don't agree with that or you don't agree with something i've said

00:51:04.840 good good like that's then we need to have a conversation about it you know yeah exactly uh

00:51:12.880 and we've always been respectful towards each other we actually i was talking with somebody

00:51:17.000 on a podcast yesterday i was on another podcast and your name got mentioned i said i'm actually

00:51:21.260 going on with rich tomorrow okay um and and the way that he kind of framed things was

00:51:26.760 was that and you already brought it up about hey how much do we get involved and try to change

00:51:33.400 the tide of society and how much do we just be left alone and so i was actually very curious

00:51:38.240 where we would fall on that conversation are we in agreement are we in alignment do we see things

00:51:43.220 differently that sort of thing yeah well i've so i've been through the divorce grinder and you know

00:51:49.060 you know i've experienced what um can only be called probably one of the worst experiences um you

00:51:55.900 know a lot of guys get spit out the other end destroyed i i managed to pick myself back up and

00:52:01.740 you know fix things up and i still have um you know a good relationship with my kid's mom i got

00:52:06.620 a great relationship with my girlfriend my daughter and i are awesome um so like there's some work that

00:52:11.980 you got to do on yourself and there's some obviously there's quite a lot of ownership that you have to

00:52:15.640 take as a man because like that uh joke goes i think it was chris rock and tambourine he said

00:52:20.800 something along the lines of you know um you know only women children and dogs are loved unconditionally

00:52:26.700 men are only loved under the condition that they provide something of some value in the world and to

00:52:30.280 their family so it's like you know you've got to realize that that there's like you can't point

00:52:36.340 and sputter at the world you can't point and sputter at women you can't point and sputter at

00:52:40.640 you know groups of uh people you know if they want to go and do their thing if they want to hate on men

00:52:45.700 and you know accumulate cats and do what they do that's awesome cut your hair short get fat diet

00:52:50.680 purple and do whatever you want like i'm not i don't really care right but don't get mad at me

00:52:55.440 or my boys if they don't want to date you right and if you want to you know transition for you know

00:53:00.460 from a boy to a girl cool awesome have fun you know with that but don't get mad at us if we don't

00:53:04.840 want to date you like don't call us phobics or whatever right because we have preferences so it's

00:53:08.840 like that's that's kind of where i lie with all that i'm kind of interested um who are you talking

00:53:15.140 to that mentioned my name um who was it it was the on what was it uh uh breaking beta podcast is what

00:53:24.300 it was oh i think i talked to him yeah yeah we had a great conversation man it was it was uh yeah

00:53:30.380 very thoughtful had some great questions we had a good dialogue it's a good conversation

00:53:33.820 i'm gonna ask these questions you know sorry go ahead i was gonna say that chris rock quote i was

00:53:38.240 thinking about that i've seen that before yeah he's not wrong he's not wrong it was absolutely right

00:53:42.940 but i also don't think it's entirely bad like i don't think it's bad either because because i but

00:53:49.160 i think a lot of people do they're like oh yeah we should just be intrinsically loved i'm like why

00:53:53.180 well like well like well that's where guys you know go wrong and they plug into society's lies or

00:53:58.320 they go blue pill basically is they think like why can't a woman love me for who i am and it's like

00:54:03.420 dude that's where you failed men and women are different okay women are loved because they're

00:54:07.880 beautiful and they have you know the ability to reproduce like that's why that's why women have been

00:54:12.140 cherished you know throughout history men are only loved under the condition that they're valuable

00:54:15.880 right so what are you doing for yourself that's valuable for you and for any woman that you decide

00:54:21.720 to invite into your life in whatever capacity that might look like right and it's like i think it's

00:54:26.400 well well there's another element to this is you're as a man you're only going to love yourself to the

00:54:32.420 ability or to the degree of your capabilities like if you're a fat pathetic loser you're not going to

00:54:38.720 love yourself like you're going to feel bad about yourself you're going to feel guilty about the way

00:54:43.600 you're not showing up about your underperformance and then you want everybody else to to uh acknowledge

00:54:49.920 that you're okay in your mediocrity man if you want to love yourself get your ass off the couch

00:54:55.220 go do some workouts go to the gym learn a new skill get a promotion ask a woman on a date and and maybe

00:55:02.940 you'll start to feel better about yourself and in turn other people will be influenced by that and

00:55:07.780 actually want to be around you you know what's interesting about that though ryan is i mean

00:55:11.900 those those few words there that you said at the beginning i think you said fat pathetic loser

00:55:16.360 those those words would offend a lot of guys today they would say ryan you're shaming men you

00:55:22.020 shouldn't do that women should just love us for who we are and it's like that's dude that's not the

00:55:26.240 way that it works just because you idealize why is shame wrong well hey listen it shouldn't be wrong

00:55:33.600 i don't think it should be wrong i think if you're like you know if one of my friends is getting fat

00:55:38.500 i'll tell him i'm like dude you're you know you're packing maximum density here like you got to do

00:55:42.400 something about this you're not looking good man right like and you should be ashamed and you should

00:55:46.540 be personally ashamed yeah like if i'm doing things i shouldn't be doing that i know like deep down that

00:55:52.800 i've made commitments not to do and i do it like let's let's hypothetically say i step out on my wife

00:55:58.220 like i've made a commitment to her for life and and i decide to put that on the back burner because

00:56:04.760 i see a beautiful woman or she gives me a little attention and i decide to forsake my commitment i

00:56:10.860 ought to be ashamed of that behavior like i should be because hopefully what that does is that shame

00:56:15.800 drives me to make better choices moving forward

00:56:18.800 interesting um i want to talk about the money part you you were involved in financial services

00:56:27.860 at some point yeah that's my background so you're a financial planner yes and like that's kind of

00:56:34.660 interesting because um i was in the debt business for quite a few years like i ran one of canada's most

00:56:39.160 successful debt settlement companies for almost 15 odd years i i did an exit around 2015 and sort of let

00:56:45.100 my brother take it over but um i'm i'm well versed on the debt side of things you're obviously well

00:56:50.580 versed on the investment side of things what did you do like what was your experience in that space

00:56:54.660 and why did you leave it yeah so we so primarily what i was responsible for was different forms of

00:57:01.520 insurance life insurance disability insurance health insurance those sorts of things and then we did

00:57:06.740 our securities planning in addition to it so basically and primarily stock-based investing so we would

00:57:13.460 create plans for people whether they were just getting started uh we would do retirement plans for

00:57:19.020 those people stepping out of their careers and now they're not making any more money do they have

00:57:24.060 enough assets how do we draw down these assets to be able to provide their way of life how do we get

00:57:29.360 them out of debt just a broad encompassing of all the things as it relates to what a person might need

00:57:35.440 with their financial services um yeah i don't do it anymore so like if you ask me questions about

00:57:40.920 like specific things i don't know obviously well i left it because i started doing order of man

00:57:46.920 okay so i had the podcast called wealth anatomy and i actually just started it as an experiment

00:57:53.600 to see like if this is a cool way to market to potential clients and i remember thinking to myself

00:57:59.620 no self-respecting doctor is gonna listen to this schmuck on a on a podcast and then call them

00:58:07.260 and want to work with them and but i remember i got a phone call it was a it was a physician in

00:58:13.920 pennsylvania and he called me up and he's like hey ryan uh i need to get some disability insurance

00:58:19.320 and then he rattled off all of the things that he needed like all of the features of disability

00:58:23.760 insurance like i don't know about you but the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't

00:58:28.440 know a thing about disability insurance so the fact that he knew everything he wanted i'm like

00:58:32.560 okay that was a little bit of a flag for me i'm like okay are you obviously know a lot about

00:58:37.760 disability insurance are you shopping around are you like how do you know so much about it

00:58:42.180 and he said this i'll never forget it oh i just listened to your podcast and i wrote down everything

00:58:46.560 you said i needed and i was like so you reached somebody yeah i was like got it and my whole universe

00:58:53.760 opened up in that moment uh and and but like i said i realized you know i don't want to have

00:58:58.500 that same conversation um i i would see my i would see my phone ring and i would see who it was and it

00:59:05.300 was a client and i'd be like oh not because it was a particular person but because i knew what was

00:59:11.620 coming a conversation i just did not want to have and so would you say that purpose is important when

00:59:17.880 you choose a career like when you choose a path like how important is that to you when it comes to

00:59:22.720 doing something i don't think when you initially choose it purpose is important i think interest is

00:59:28.140 for sure but having this lifelong pursuit and purpose i don't know that you can have that as

00:59:32.760 you enter into the workforce um but i will say um intent maybe uh being intentional about the work

00:59:42.460 that you're doing because you don't know where it'll lead so you don't have to be super passionate

00:59:46.520 about what you're doing right now uh but if you're if you have intent about excellence with regards to

00:59:54.540 what you're doing it will begin to open up doors that might lead you to purpose and something more

01:00:00.520 significant and meaningful in your life but if you just dabble and you do it kind of haphazardly and

01:00:06.280 you're just mediocre i think few doors will be open to you and i think you'll have a harder time

01:00:10.540 finding purpose down the road let me switch gears and talk a little bit about podcasting because i mean

01:00:16.960 you're like you're really good at this obviously so like i'm i'm curious about how you got good at it

01:00:23.320 how you um like book guests how you select guests yeah like how did you figure that all out like

01:00:31.660 man a lot of trial and error and i mean you're 800 episodes in you said right yeah yeah and you're

01:00:39.420 probably still learning every oh all the time even now i'm like cool this is you know like what can i

01:00:44.620 learn and take away from this but i had an interesting conversation with jack donovan about this he says

01:00:48.880 you know there's a lot of people in this this men's self-development space if you want to call

01:00:52.920 it that and he's like one thing that you've been doing is taking this to the mainstream and that's

01:00:58.020 what i'm trying to do i think a lot of these men's movements have kind of danced around on the fringes

01:01:02.780 and in the shadows and they have their own little underground followings and it's really powerful and

01:01:07.200 my perception and thought has always been how do i take this to the masses and i've had people say

01:01:11.600 oh you know this is just a sellout or a or a spinoff of joe rogan's podcast or things like that

01:01:17.900 or i have people that'll complain rogan's podcast should be okay with that i'm okay with that um and

01:01:24.160 so i've had people you know say well like i don't like that guest you shouldn't have had him on i'm

01:01:27.960 like but you listened didn't you yeah you know so i know what people listen to and i know what they

01:01:33.900 will resonate with and i also know what they won't but they'll i don't want to say argue about but

01:01:38.480 but bring up some some frustrations about and that's good that's what we should be doing

01:01:43.340 yeah i think it's good to have like discourse like i had um do you know who andrew i think his

01:01:48.100 name is andrew clavin andrew clavin from daily daily wire uh yeah right yeah so yeah so his producer

01:01:56.040 reached out to me at one point because they wanted to talk about marriage and divorce and they must have

01:02:00.640 come across some of my content where i was talking about it so i went on the show with him and it was

01:02:04.960 like a 20 minute segment i wasn't expecting much i mean there was some hate obviously from people

01:02:08.380 like why is this guy here you know standard sort of stuff but i found there was actually quite a few

01:02:13.140 people that even though you know we had a different opinion on a topic like marriage um that actually

01:02:19.760 like turn around and said yeah um and they follow me now and they bought my book or they've hopped on

01:02:24.480 like a call-in segment on one of my podcasts like i had a guy the other day and that segment was like

01:02:28.540 over a year ago he's like yeah i saw you on the andrew clavin podcast and i wanted to call in and

01:02:32.080 talk to you about this and that the other thing so it's amazing i think it's good to have

01:02:35.820 different you know guests on that aren't like it's not an echo chamber right like one of the

01:02:40.020 things that i noticed with the manno swamp is it's like it's an echo chamber it's always the

01:02:43.200 same thing it's about chasing tail right that's it right well and even in the podcasting space in

01:02:48.800 in a lot of ways it becomes a big circle jerk like everybody's just kind of jerking each other off and

01:02:53.100 like i'm going to talk about you positively and you're going to talk about me positively it's like

01:02:56.360 okay like enough i've heard this guy 100 times or more like give me something else you know

01:03:02.440 so the your question earlier was how do we how do we book podcast guests how do we figure out who

01:03:08.220 we want on the on the show you know i look for trends or do you have a team or no i i have somebody

01:03:13.120 who helps me now i used to do it all myself but for the past year um i've got an amazing woman who's

01:03:19.840 helping me manage all my logistics and book my podcast and reach out to these individuals and and

01:03:27.260 i'll say hey you know i'd like to have this person on and she's like okay who do we know let's work

01:03:31.140 our angles and she figures that out she's man she's an absolute rock star she's really done some

01:03:36.680 amazing things for what we're doing here but look i i at this point i i i jokingly say i just want to

01:03:43.440 interview weirdos and assholes because we've heard from everybody else like i want somebody with

01:03:48.140 something different like yeah you know people reach out and they'll they'll send me an email and

01:03:52.180 say hey i want to talk about the five most important leadership principles i'm like

01:03:55.320 got it i already know what all that is like what else give me something different yeah you know

01:04:01.480 and and but i am looking for people who have platforms and people who obviously speak or have

01:04:08.280 spoken about that particular subject and people say well you're only interviewing people that have

01:04:12.800 large platforms partially yes because i know that they've proven that they're talking about an issue

01:04:18.900 that resonates with people and they're talking in a way that resonates with them so they've proven

01:04:25.180 that they're going to be a relatively decent person and guest to talk with i have a lot of people like

01:04:31.560 well why don't you have this guy on i'm like i'm not going to let that guy experiment or test his skills

01:04:36.680 on my podcast like we have a huge opportunity to bring on elite level people high performing people

01:04:44.180 who have something real to say and that's who we're going to reserve the platform for you want

01:04:48.820 to have a conversation with joe schmo go knock on your neighbor's door yeah you host them on your

01:04:53.900 podcast you can start your own show if you want yeah sure yeah um let me ask you about this so

01:04:59.600 there's a lot of um like mass like masculinity sort of groups out there now there's uh i don't know

01:05:06.280 there's probably like at least a dozen that i'm uh in on like as a fly in the wall on different

01:05:12.240 facebook groups and they all seem to have and they're mostly free right so it's like you know

01:05:18.080 the free guys come in they're using the boards to sort of like post about stuff that they're stuck on

01:05:23.140 and it seems like there's like a constant trend of like the same sort of stuff not good with women

01:05:27.720 not good with money how do i make more money how do i get out of debt how do i how do i get my wife

01:05:32.280 to bang me you know my wife's banging somebody else how do i get her to stop stuff like that

01:05:36.160 um you ever see that in your groups all the time how do you you just described my group man yeah so

01:05:44.080 so how do you deal with that like because i mean a lot of this after a while becomes obvious to

01:05:49.440 guys like us it's like okay like i'm i'm i'm clearly you know in a position where i made my

01:05:54.620 wounds my work i've done the work i've leveled up i've accepted these realities and i apply them my

01:05:58.800 life sort of thing like how do you deal with the masses of these men that are essentially like

01:06:03.860 plugged into society's lies that don't serve them that that that are getting them these bad results

01:06:08.640 so there's two ways i would say number one is empathy like i bro i get it man your your wife

01:06:16.620 just left you uh you're you're miserable your business is failing you're fat like

01:06:21.460 bro i get it i know i know exactly what you're feeling right now because i felt that and it was

01:06:27.600 horrible and so like if you're the thousandth or ten thousandth person that said it it's still

01:06:34.580 real to you so i have to have that level of empathy but that but the hard part at this point where we've

01:06:41.140 grown our movement to what we've grown to it's like how do you serve these guys individually

01:06:45.220 anymore and you can't you know it's just too much so what i do is i look for trends and if there's a

01:06:51.680 trend about um relate some something with relationships then i'm i'm gonna do a podcast

01:06:57.720 on it and then what i'll do is i'll i'll archive that and i'll store it somewhere and then as guys

01:07:04.220 have an issue like cool listen to episode 400 on you know may of 2021 i cover that exact issue

01:07:12.960 and so what it does is it serves both of us now i'm answering these guys questions

01:07:17.360 in a leveraged way and i'm also utilizing it for content that's going to serve them and thousands

01:07:24.640 of other people uh and then there's always going to be another group of individuals uh who want to

01:07:31.980 take it to the next level there's going to be a bunch of guys who are like hey i just want to come

01:07:35.000 here i need a few answers i'm going to share some opinions and that's all and that's cool like if

01:07:39.800 that's what you want to do that's cool but there's also going to be one to two percent of individuals

01:07:44.120 that's what i found anyways who say you know ryan i really like what you're saying i like what you

01:07:49.260 put out there like what's the next step how do i elevate my experience here and then we have

01:07:54.760 opportunities as a business owner for them to do that that's the iron council uh that's the live

01:07:59.800 events that we run other things courses that we put into place because there's always going to be

01:08:04.700 that two percent who's like okay got it check you answered my questions i was introduced and now i want

01:08:10.640 more what more do you have yeah yeah yeah totally agree let me grab these super chats over here that

01:08:16.820 popped up uh alt tab life says i'd pay to have andrew clavin on he's a godly man but also a true

01:08:22.220 realist he's essentially unplugged from the bs the church has become yeah i felt like i had a good

01:08:28.100 conversation with him i mean it was uh it was well balanced i mean we weren't agreeing on everything

01:08:32.460 but i thought it was a good talk i'm a big fan of roman history and war strategies do you ever talk

01:08:36.980 about that i'm more of a fan of viking history to be honest with you um very like very strong

01:08:44.260 connection to that personally what about you man is there any kind of like um like historical time

01:08:48.540 that you really connect with i i like early american history personally so i i read a lot on

01:08:54.940 our founding fathers uh the way that we separated and and in the battles that we went through and and how

01:09:01.120 we fought for our freedom but yeah roman history is fascinating too there's a lot of good books and

01:09:05.600 information on that um reading reading reading is becoming increasingly difficult it's rare because

01:09:13.840 well it's don't do it so much anymore it's hard though with everything that's going on for everybody

01:09:19.820 like on top of everything else everybody's doing it's like and then i have to sit down and read for

01:09:24.800 an hour it's like we should be doing it and i try to do it as often as i can but it becomes hard too

01:09:30.060 because i'm reading books for guests that i have on the podcast and so reading fictional or history

01:09:35.100 becomes increasingly difficult when i've got a stack of books up to here to research for my guests

01:09:40.080 that are coming on yeah yeah i always have guys that say oh you know you have to have this guess

01:09:44.580 that guess and so and so on it's like i don't even know their names right like i invite guests on that

01:09:49.680 i'm familiar with that i've of course i followed that i've consumed their content so i know something

01:09:54.300 about them and we can you know strike up some uh conversations on pieces that we might agree on or

01:09:59.020 even disagree on right or rich one thing i would suggest maybe even and i've done this is if a name

01:10:04.280 keeps popping up over and over again and you might not know who that is okay that that's a trend so

01:10:09.320 that might be more of a reason to connect with that person although you may not even know who they are

01:10:13.840 yeah yeah also true good point um there was a video that i came across on your channel is it was a

01:10:21.940 more popular one it said something it was it was something along the lines of like what boys need to be

01:10:27.440 men sort of thing and you were talking about you've got to be a dad in the house like you've got to be

01:10:31.660 the man of the house uh dad in the house and what are the arguments that these MGTOW guys will have

01:10:37.920 to make is the juice is not worth the squeeze like it's not even worth engaging with women uh marriages

01:10:43.380 of raw deal sort of thing how do you and i think that you understand that like i think that you

01:10:47.880 understand that marriage is hostile right like totally not not not hostile in the sense where guys get

01:10:54.380 you know destroyed because of marriage but it's the way that marriage is run today because

01:10:58.380 there's a really good book by stephanie koontz called the history of marriage i don't know if

01:11:02.220 you've read it no i'm actually interested in that though history of marriage yeah the author is

01:11:06.940 stephanie koontz and okay basically the tldr version is that really you know people have always gotten

01:11:13.460 married throughout history for the acquisition of in-laws right let's you know like your family has

01:11:18.640 this shit over here and my family has this shit over here so we're going to blend and you know

01:11:23.180 we're going to take care of each other right because you know for thousands of years um if

01:11:27.900 there was um medical issues uh required there was law enforcement required there was uh financial

01:11:34.220 issues uh you know that need to be dealt with you deal with it within your family there was no

01:11:38.740 government there was no banking there was none of this bullshit it was like you know if somebody uh

01:11:43.020 did you wrong and you had a strong family then you had recourse right so that was part of the

01:11:49.760 reasons why people got married for such a long period of time but today now we're you know we're

01:11:54.560 in a position where i think it's understood for the most part that marriage isn't about love anymore

01:12:01.040 it's it's it's definitely not about the acquisition of in-laws and it's been turned into a a thing now

01:12:07.380 where uh the state and essentially women end up becoming the head of the household especially if

01:12:13.400 if if the knot becomes untied you know if things go sideways and you need to part ways that's when

01:12:18.960 things can get pretty bad for guys so you know when you encourage guys to like basically man up and

01:12:25.480 be the father in the home and be the man how do you balance that with the environment that we live in

01:12:31.660 today as men where if a woman wants to i mean i had a conversation once with a guy he came home from

01:12:38.720 work and he found his wife um at home on the phone when he walked in the door uh on on the phone

01:12:45.860 one nine one one basically saying yeah he's here now i'm scared he's threatening to hit me

01:12:50.620 you know you have to come now and then hung up the phone and then you know 10 minutes later there's

01:12:55.540 three cop cars one of them pulls up on the front lawn knocks over a bush and stuff and they arrest

01:12:59.860 him and take him away so like there's any number of things that you know guys have experienced that

01:13:04.400 some some men watching this right now may not understand but others that have been through it

01:13:08.980 are going to be nodding their head and say yeah it was even worse for me like how do you balance that

01:13:12.960 now as a guy like how do you recommend guys balance that today i want to hear from you on that

01:13:16.060 well i mean first of all those women who do that um and this goes for like false rape accusations and

01:13:22.540 all of that stuff too there's a lot of stuff yeah punished to the full extent of the law but they

01:13:28.080 never do they never get held no i know accountable i know and that's why we need to make sure that we

01:13:33.100 as noble and righteous and capable men get into positions of authority and power so we can start to

01:13:38.720 make some changes in the laws and also the family court system which is clearly clearly stacked

01:13:44.680 against the men in this country it's horrific uh now but to answer your question more directly

01:13:50.520 heavy vetting all right i think too many people rush too quickly into marriage and i was fortunate

01:13:58.040 i lucked out but it could have very easily gone the other way for me um because i didn't vet as well

01:14:04.380 as maybe i could have so i talk a lot about the red flags that men need to make sure they're avoiding

01:14:09.660 and and addressing often quickly early frequently and then also looking for green flags drama is one of

01:14:18.000 them uh a bad these are not deal breakers so i'm going to throw that out there but drop being engaged

01:14:24.140 in drama horrible friends okay she has horrible friends that's a red flag uh promiscuity with other

01:14:32.540 men that's a red flag she's sleeping with you right away she's willing to sleep with anybody else right

01:14:36.720 away look at her family dynamic the the family that she comes from what what did she learn when she was

01:14:43.660 a young girl what's her mother like how does her mother behave how's her father how is her relationship

01:14:49.560 between her mother and her father what what what does she believe about these uh these societal issues

01:14:56.800 like transgenderism and and politics like you got like you got to know these things what are her goals

01:15:03.020 what are her ambitions what are her desires how many kids does she want to have how does she want

01:15:07.360 to raise them does she want to go into the workforce or does she want to be a stay-at-home mom when things

01:15:11.740 go south in the relationship is she going to bail or is she going to work through those things does she

01:15:16.020 have a track record and a history of bailing and running away from conflict or can she prove to you

01:15:21.580 that she's capable of dealing with conflict like a mature adult man these are all things that so many

01:15:27.240 guys overlook and they're like i was surprised i was shocked i was caught off guard you weren't dude

01:15:32.660 really it was coming yeah really you knew it was coming sex was good yeah yes yeah so heavy vetting um

01:15:39.700 and then yes if you're in a relationship already i think that not all of it but i think a lot of the

01:15:46.820 challenges that we see between husband and wife could be mitigated if you do indeed step up as a

01:15:53.280 man and that's what i when i say step up and become that patriarch of your home i'm talking to men who

01:16:01.120 are already in committed relationships because i'm not advocating for you to bail just because things

01:16:06.200 get difficult and i think that as you become a more capable confident man you'll be able to lead her

01:16:13.360 more effectively and the likelihood of your marriage lasting will drastically increase and improve

01:16:18.540 yeah it's funny that you mentioned red flags because i have 20 red flags in my book in one of

01:16:24.600 the chapters that i tell guys to pay very very close attention to and i mean right off the bat i tell

01:16:31.760 them i go look you know you can invite these women into your life you can have kids with them you can

01:16:35.160 marry them you can be in a relationship with them people do it but you're gonna unnecessarily

01:16:40.060 complicate your life to a degree that could put you your health the access to your kids uh your

01:16:45.640 financial resources all at tremendous risk and you're right most guys don't do that they'll spend

01:16:52.020 more time uh researching their next car than what they will put into considering whether or not she's

01:16:59.420 going to be a good person to invite into their life right what are some of those red flags that that

01:17:04.620 you have in your book i can go through them uh daddy issues number two is feminist number three

01:17:09.240 uh the unhappy and unlucky number four is she competes with you number five she keeps men from

01:17:14.820 her past around number six she's poor with money number seven she's violent number eight she has

01:17:20.220 extreme jealousy number nine she's a party girl number 10 she's covered in tattoos and piercings

01:17:25.300 number 11 she has a big notch count number 12 she's a single mom number 13 she's seeking validation

01:17:31.380 and attention online number 14 she's a sugar baby or has been one in the past uh number 15 she's a

01:17:38.020 pathological liar number 16 she has baby rabies number 17 she throws hissy fits number 18 you're not

01:17:44.640 in control of the birth and number 19 she's a drama queen number 20 she's got addictive personality

01:17:49.480 solid list i don't disagree with any of that if you can avoid almost all of that ideally

01:17:57.680 you're probably dealing with somebody that's potentially going to be a compliment to your life

01:18:02.960 and not the focus you said you said one baby rabies what is that should i know what that is

01:18:08.160 yeah absolutely so that's kind of a term from from the man of swamp that i sort of uh refined a little

01:18:13.940 bit but what it essentially means is you're running into a woman that's like i need to have kids right

01:18:18.460 now like she's 38 she's climbed the corporate ladder she's on dating apps she doesn't even ask you

01:18:24.520 you know uh where we're gonna meet for the drink it's like do you want to have kids right now is

01:18:28.780 the first thing that she'll say yeah yeah yeah yeah that's a big problem because these women will

01:18:32.960 basically like get knocked up by any guy that's just good enough because her biological clock is

01:18:38.920 ticking and guys like that usually get destroyed pretty bad in a divorce a few years down the road

01:18:43.960 when she realizes that she doesn't need him anymore she's got the kids and they're generally pretty

01:18:48.200 successful guys because women are hypergamous so they did a crossing up so he could be

01:18:51.620 a surgeon that's a bit of a dork that realizes that she's 38 and she wants to have kids so yeah

01:18:56.640 okay you know let's do this now sort of thing and then he just destroys his life because he avoids

01:19:00.800 you know that and potentially other red flags it's interesting you said that because i wrote down right

01:19:05.860 here um before you've said that kids solving problems is a red flag which i think is along the

01:19:12.360 same lines so similar yeah people will think if if you have a woman who thinks that oh having a child

01:19:19.080 will solve her problems or your guys's problems don't have a kid that doesn't solve like if she's

01:19:25.120 not whole without she's not going to be whole with so you've got to be very i like that that i'm

01:19:31.540 in agreement with that yeah and i mean like the on a balance of probabilities you get involved with

01:19:37.520 a woman that's got baby rabies that's that's potentially going to end the relationship pretty

01:19:41.420 rapidly i mean there's there's usually things that like stack with that too so if you've got a 38

01:19:46.140 year old that's got baby rabies she's single she's been single most of her life she's probably

01:19:50.500 dated a ton of guys racked up a huge notch count a woman that's banged 50 guys has a very very very

01:19:57.280 poor ability to pair bond in a healthy way to a guy because like you mentioned when you were kind of

01:20:03.440 going on the rant there um if if she can't deal with conflict if she can't deal with problems in a

01:20:09.700 relationship in a mature way she's already left 50 other guys plus right you know there's a 50 that

01:20:14.620 she bank plus the other guys in and around that equation she's not likely to want to stick around

01:20:19.520 she'll just move on to the next guy and make it 51 or 52 or you know whatever that number happens to

01:20:23.720 become over time so a lot of these kind of stack with the other like one of the common things that

01:20:29.000 happens like i get dms from guys all the time and they're like dude i and and here i'll just put

01:20:33.300 it up on the screen so if you're new to watching my my channel i'm going to put the ticker down over

01:20:38.060 here so if you get on my email list at entrepreneurs and cars.com forward slash red dead flag

01:20:42.180 red dash flags you can download the red flag chapter for free it's like 20 25 odd pages sort

01:20:47.620 of thing and i get dms from guys all the time they're like dude i went through the chapter and

01:20:52.700 you know my my crazy ex had like 18 of the 20 red flags or my ex-wife that destroyed me in family court

01:20:59.660 had like 13 of the 20 red flags like you're so right sort of thing so it's like guys pay attention

01:21:05.100 if you're gonna invite a woman into your life it is risky it is high risk and generally lower reward

01:21:12.160 for men and low risk and higher reward for women it's it's a different equation so you have to be

01:21:17.640 very very picky and selective when you invite a woman into your life because things change dramatically

01:21:22.540 especially when you guys start having kids together

01:21:24.440 agreed i mean well said what what more can i say on that

01:21:29.780 um we got like 10 minutes left so i want to start to start to wrap up i got i got one more

01:21:35.620 question for you so one of the things that i said recently that seemed to um really polarize a lot of

01:21:43.500 people and i want to get your take on this like i've said like depression generally equals not accepting

01:21:48.100 the reality of the world that you live in like i'm not a strong believer in like we need to coddle and

01:21:53.060 pander to people it's like if you feel like you're depressed are you having a hard time with accepting

01:21:58.860 the reality of the world that we live in or are you really depressed right i'm just curious on what

01:22:03.600 your thought on that is because a lot of guys will tend to revert to to more feminine programming

01:22:09.140 right like they'll kind of go back to the female first primary social order and sort of like

01:22:13.380 yeah i feel depressed and i'm weak and i need like everybody's sympathy sort of thing and it's like

01:22:18.100 dude you're a man right you're struggling with the reality of the world that you live in usually it

01:22:23.000 ties into something like well why can't i just get a girl like i'm really a great guy like why can't

01:22:27.540 they just accept me you know for who i am that's why i'm depressed it's like yeah but you're 330 pounds

01:22:32.900 you have a bad neck beard your your skin's horrible you have no money and you live in your mom's basement

01:22:37.760 playing video games all day like are you really depressed or do you struggle with the reality of

01:22:41.560 the world i just want to get your take on that because i hear a lot of guys with that i think they

01:22:46.760 might actually be depressed but it might be a symptom of what you're saying you know i but i think they

01:22:52.160 they probably are down and depressed and maybe even suicidal about it so i think i i think i agree

01:22:58.980 um i would also say that a lot of it probably stems from them being a bit delusional about their own

01:23:11.640 reality and maybe that's what you're saying too is like essentially yeah so okay you're you're you're

01:23:19.240 upset that you didn't get the promotion well you also come into work late and you you know leave

01:23:24.800 early and you don't maximize your time there and you don't add any real value why in the world do

01:23:29.520 you think that somebody should should promote you or like you said i can't get women to like me well

01:23:36.840 yeah you don't even like yourself because you said you were going to go to the gym this morning

01:23:40.580 and you've said that for the last 365 days and you haven't done it and you know you're a liar now

01:23:46.260 of course you're depressed about that you're a liar you're lying to yourself who wouldn't feel

01:23:50.660 depressed about that yeah so i think the way that we overcome some of this is by keeping the

01:23:55.820 commitments that we make to ourselves and then all of the other things start to work themselves out

01:24:00.780 surprise surprise you got the promotion surprise surprise you lost 50 pounds surprise women are

01:24:06.160 paying attention to you those those externals work themselves out when you deal with the internals

01:24:11.160 yeah like i've you know i've often said and you know sometimes this pieces people off but i mean

01:24:15.940 they can't argue with it you'll never see a depressed guy behind the wheel of a lamborghini

01:24:19.340 with a hot girl in a driver's seat in the passenger seat sorry it doesn't happen right i mean you work

01:24:24.280 hard you're successful you have attractive woman in your life women in your life you know whatever it

01:24:27.660 is you decide to do in your life who cares but you the only caveat to that the only caveat would be

01:24:33.640 the guy who rented the lamborghini and it's a prostitute in the car you know what i'm saying like

01:24:38.000 that's a diff that's the dip that's the difference yeah is that real we don't know i don't know if

01:24:43.140 it's real chapter three of my book is genuine burning desire so that so that deals with you

01:24:47.580 know the real burning desire that you know she's actually there and wants to be there um exactly

01:24:52.160 let me uh let me grab these last few super chats uh we did the roman history one i mean from a

01:24:58.000 strategic standpoint when it comes to manhood the story of caesar versus uh versin i'm not familiar

01:25:04.620 with that name has elements that the truckers use in protest uh again i'm not familiar with roman

01:25:11.000 history i'm not either okay so we'll skip that but thanks for the super uh north south says i'm

01:25:15.940 married and had two kids with a senator's daughter so it is interesting you brought up the brought up

01:25:21.200 acquisition of in-laws of course she had a team of divorce liars yeah okay well um are you are you

01:25:27.700 divorced or married it says i'm married and had two kids i married and oh i was married and had two kids

01:25:32.800 so he was divorced so yeah yeah um yeah i mean acquiring good in-laws should matter and i think

01:25:38.680 it's something that that should be taken into consideration as you're dating you know like do

01:25:44.680 you like do you want to hang out with her brothers right you know do you want to do shit with her dad

01:25:48.740 you know sort of thing like does she have a good relationship with her dad um yes things things like

01:25:53.760 this should be taken into consideration and not ignored or you know skipped over just because you

01:25:58.180 know she's she's hot and she let and she touches your pp you know sort of thing like that's how

01:26:02.740 most guys base their relationships she touches my pp and calls me back

01:26:06.340 oh man um ryan it's been a slice i've really enjoyed talking to you why don't you tell people

01:26:13.740 where they can find you uh the podcast is the best place so order a man podcast wherever you listen

01:26:19.120 uh outside of that connect with me on the socials instagram facebook twitter all at ryan

01:26:23.920 mickler i think it's yep says it right there on the screen so you can connect with me there

01:26:27.340 awesome guys give the uh video a thumbs up share it with somebody that might need to see it and

01:26:32.640 just chuck a comment below for the algorithms appreciate you see you guys in the next one

Playing to Win - March 02, 2022

060 - Ryan Michler - Order of Man

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