Playing to Win - 079 - The Matrix v Andrew Tate w⧸ Sulaiman Ahmed

00:00:00.000 All right, guys, welcome. We're at the 79th installment of the Plane to Win podcast series.

00:00:06.100 Today we're talking about Andrew Tate and his recent incarceration, how the situation's

00:00:12.000 unfolding. I've got Suleiman Ahmed with me. He's a teacher, author, blogger, investigative

00:00:17.880 journalist, also has a law degree. Interesting dude. I've seen him traveling around in the

00:00:23.320 last couple of weeks and he was introduced to me through a mutual friend. Thought it

00:00:26.620 would be good to put him on the podcast and introduce him to you guys so he can offer

00:00:30.620 some insight on what he thinks going on with the Andrew Tate situation. Welcome. How are

00:00:35.780 you doing, my friend? I'm doing really well. Thank you for having me. Much appreciated.

00:00:39.920 Yeah. Now, you're in the UK. I know that you're going on with Destiny and Pearl to have a conversation

00:00:46.060 later on today. There's a BBC audio documentary that was just released. It's about 36 minutes

00:00:51.780 long and we're going to kind of go through this and try to unpack it and see what this

00:00:56.420 looks like. I mean, this is definitely a playing to win story because, you know, we'll call

00:01:00.560 it the Matrix is obviously trying to win against the Tate brothers and right now they're incarcerated

00:01:05.620 and they're obviously trying to win, you know, for their own lives and their own freedom.

00:01:09.480 Have you ever met Andrew and Tristan?

00:01:11.840 No, no. I've never met Andrew and Tristan. Neither have I ever communicated with them.

00:01:16.480 My initial basis of joining this issue was because I felt like injustice was occurring.

00:01:20.980 There was a significant or a plethora of attacks against them on social media as well as mainstream

00:01:27.400 media. And what you'll find in mainstream media, which is, and the culmination of that is probably

00:01:32.340 the BBC documentary, is a significant bias against the Tate without any kind of fair reporting.

00:01:39.900 So that was the basis for joining the issue. Obviously now, after doing a significant amount

00:01:44.460 of research, you would probably put me in the pro-Tate camp. And the reason for that is just

00:01:48.920 based on what I've learned, the evidence I've seen, and the way the other side is acting.

00:01:53.720 Okay. So at this stage of the game, do you think he's innocent or do you think he's guilty?

00:01:58.520 So based on the evidence we have right now, I'm convinced that he's innocent.

00:02:02.680 Convinced that he's innocent. Okay. I'm at the point where, like I've had Andrew on

00:02:07.960 several times for podcasts, Tristan as well. I like them. Like one of their most charming traits,

00:02:15.120 I feel is their comedy. Like I think they're hilarious. You know, the way that they discuss

00:02:19.740 topics that seem to be taken as taboo by most people. He's also a big car guy. So we talk a

00:02:24.780 lot about cars offline. I have no idea, you know, what's, what's going on here, you know,

00:02:30.940 to be honest with you. You know, people have, people have accused me of hitching myself to,

00:02:36.360 you know, hitching my wagon to this and saying, oh, you know, you got to get off this bandwagon.

00:02:40.460 And it's like, look, okay. Uh, I'm one of the few guys that doesn't hitch to anything. Like I run my

00:02:46.200 own show and I am my own person. I like the guy. I think he's funny. I don't know why he's in jail

00:02:51.500 aside from the allegations that I've heard, but he hasn't been charged yet, which is unusual. Like

00:02:55.700 this is, this is a little bit bizarre from what I understand in Romania, they can hold you for

00:03:00.100 up to 180 days without charging. That's right. They have, they can. And they plan to, I mean,

00:03:06.900 it seems like they are, they're doing it in increments of 30 days and they can do it up

00:03:10.660 to 180 days, which as citizens of the world, one would think that it would be our moral duty

00:03:18.560 to be vocal about why this is inappropriate. And so any country, it doesn't matter if which

00:03:24.340 country is, and we can include the United Kingdom where they do it now for 14 days or

00:03:28.700 the United States where you've got the Patriot Act, any of the, or in France. So any of these

00:03:33.460 countries where you have a scenario where people have been held detained without being charged

00:03:40.440 is horrendous. And we as people of the world should be fighting against this and saying this is

00:03:45.340 incorrect. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. I mean, why hold somebody for that long without

00:03:50.980 officially charging them to me at this stage of the game? It's not a question of innocence or guilt.

00:03:55.420 It's like, why are they holding them? How long are they going to hold them? If they're going to

00:04:00.340 charge with anything, is it going to be legitimate? Is he going to get a, you know, like a fair trial

00:04:04.220 here sort of thing? Because at this stage with them holding him this long without making any

00:04:10.480 official announcements or providing any official evidence does seem like the matrix is attacking

00:04:16.860 him. I'm just, you know, just putting it out there. I mean, those are legitimate concerns because

00:04:22.240 one has to remember that they have been investigating these brothers now coming up to nearly a 10 to 11

00:04:28.000 months. So you basically investigate them for nine months before you arrested them. And then you've

00:04:34.020 had them now, you're going to have them for two months. And throughout that period, you're in a

00:04:37.740 situation where you say you don't have the evidence to prosecute or to convict. So essentially you put

00:04:44.440 them in prison and then you go along and look for the evidence. And in essence, it's a fishing expedition.

00:04:50.320 The concern always is whenever there's a fishing expedition and someone's looking for fish,

00:04:54.660 they're going to try and catch it. Yeah. Whenever you're going looking for trouble,

00:04:58.100 you're definitely going to find something. And if you don't, you're going to manufacture

00:05:00.680 it as well. You know, it's what I've learned. Let's, let's kind of get into the speculative

00:05:05.260 stuff a little bit. I want to play this BBC special that aired last night. It was radio only.

00:05:11.180 It's about 36 minutes long. If you guys can do me a solid, I'm just going to drop the link in

00:05:15.860 YouTube because I only monitor the chat in YouTube. So if you're watching this on Facebook,

00:05:20.400 Twitter, Twitch, you know, wherever, click that link that I just dropped in all chat,

00:05:23.780 head over to use YouTube, hit the like button, thumbs up, um, and subscribe obviously. So you

00:05:28.800 don't miss anything. Cause I'll keep an eye on the chat on YouTube. If you guys have any questions

00:05:32.280 for us as we're doing this or anything you want us to address as we're kind of going through this.

00:05:37.120 Um, so let's throw this in the stream here and I've checked the audio. If you guys have any issues

00:05:42.200 with the audio while it's playing, you let me know. Um, I think we'll be able to run through,

00:05:46.140 through this at about 1.2 times speed and still understand it. We'll kind of pause along the way.

00:05:50.980 So if there's something that you want to hit on, just, just hit, just say pause and I'll just hit

00:05:54.280 the pause button and then we'll kind of discuss it and then we'll just go and resume it. So

00:05:58.520 we'll just play this. Yeah. Before we start broadly speaking, I mean, this documentary was, um,

00:06:04.060 produced by an individual, um, Paul Kenyon, I think his name is, and someone called Haley.

00:06:10.360 Now, first of all, Paul's been writing a significant amount of things on Twitter,

00:06:15.780 which no problem. He's trying to advertise his show. But one of the points he makes is this,

00:06:22.260 he says from the information, well, he makes two points. First, he says there's a, in this audio

00:06:27.460 that you're going to listen to, there's a treasure trove of information. So listening to it, I was

00:06:33.200 expecting massive bombshells. I was expecting things which would be unbelievable. And he claimed that this

00:06:39.020 would be the reason or, uh, or an example or exemplar of why the Tates are going to be convicted.

00:06:45.500 So I'll allow that your audience to see if they come to the same conclusion. And the second issue

00:06:50.680 is he said that according to the information he has, the Tate brothers are going to remain in prison

00:06:59.700 till May, five weeks before the 180 days are run out. And then the trial will start immediately.

00:07:05.960 Now, when I read that, I have two questions. The first question is, you've stated that

00:07:14.300 unequivocally. So it's not, you've said my opinion, you've said it is going to happen.

00:07:18.700 So if that's the case, and you're, and you, it's one of two things, either you're inaccurate,

00:07:23.120 and you're just talking nonsense, or the other option is you have inside information.

00:07:29.020 The concern with that is if you have inside information, that again, it goes to the idea of

00:07:35.020 the matrix and these brothers, the judgment already being decided, because remember,

00:07:39.980 they're meant to be having a hearing every 30 days. The prosecution are meant to be presenting

00:07:44.300 the evidence. They're going to be presenting the defense. And then the judge makes a decision.

00:07:48.200 Then most likely they'll appeal that decision. So in up until May, there should be six court hearings.

00:07:53.460 So is he saying those court hearings are a foregone conclusion? So those are the two issues that I

00:07:58.420 think will be curious before we listen to it. And then the third thing is, if you look at the

00:08:01.820 narrative, it'll be, it's very one side and quite biased. So they were just my comments before we

00:08:06.320 start. Yeah. Um, you'll get a general feel for what the BBC has done with this. Once we start

00:08:11.580 playing through it, because a lot of the, um, the proof, uh, didn't, didn't really seem to be there

00:08:18.380 when I was listening to it. And I listened to it twice this morning to, you know, take a few notes.

00:08:21.780 So let me, uh, throw it back up on the screen again. You know, if there's something that you want

00:08:25.480 to pause and discuss, just let me know, just, just say pause and I'll pause it and then we'll,

00:08:29.980 uh, hop into it. Um, all right, let's go back in here and put this back up to the screen.

00:08:37.160 Uh, okay. And let's hit play. And again, if you guys have any issue with the audio,

00:08:40.600 just let me know and I'll, and I'll make some adjustments.

00:08:42.520 Uh, come on, let's play. There we go. I am by the metrics of the internet, the most famous

00:08:55.040 individual who is currently alive in the world today. Andrew Tate, a self-proclaimed misogynist

00:09:01.340 who says he's a trillionaire and who's followed on by a huge digital army of young men.

00:09:06.520 A youth of today. Well, straight first point, they start with this idea of self-proclaimed

00:09:12.600 misogynist is to create the narrative that guess what? He is a misogynist and it's based

00:09:17.640 on what he said. Now I had an interaction with somebody from the New York post. His name was

00:09:22.440 Joshua and I forgot his surname. And he started and said, look, I'm writing an article about

00:09:28.280 the self-proclaimed misogynist Andrew Tate. So I asked him, I said, look, what's, can you provide

00:09:33.480 me for the reference for that statement? So he said, no problem. And then he provided me with a

00:09:37.360 link to the BBC. So I said to him, look, that's not a primary source. Can you provide me for the

00:09:41.480 information for a primary source? So he sent me a podcast. And so I'll listen to the podcast. And

00:09:47.260 the irony is in the podcast, Andrew Tate says, you guys call me a misogynist because you guys are

00:09:55.820 zombie-eyed and you guys are brainwashed by the matrix to call me a misogynist, but I'm not.

00:10:00.400 So he says the opposite in that. So there may be some other clip, but they've not been able to

00:10:06.320 provide it. So in, in, in reality, they're all copied each other about this statement and no one

00:10:11.240 actually knows the original source of the statement. Yeah. I've, I've heard him use, use it in a, um,

00:10:19.360 self-deprecating, almost comical way. You know, like it's like, it's clear to me when I hear him

00:10:24.220 use that, um, or he's addressing it. He's, he's just making fun of it. Like I'm the last person

00:10:30.440 that you should consider a misogynist. I take care of women. I have a family, you know, I raise

00:10:34.260 children sort of thing. I look after the, you know, the people that I love. I've retired my mother.

00:10:38.100 Um, so, but it's, I don't believe in comedy, do they? That's the problem. When you don't like

00:10:44.120 someone, everything's literal. Yeah. You know, they'll take everything literally, literally. And

00:10:48.580 that's what they do, right? Like they go looking for sound bites, you know, it, it becomes a witch

00:10:53.680 hunt. And to me, this, this does seem like a witch hunt. Um, should we carry on? Yeah. Yes. All right.

00:10:59.880 Let's go. Don't listen to anybody else. That's the reason I'm the most famous man on the planet

00:11:03.580 because none of these other people have the authority to affect them like I do. His videos

00:11:07.000 have been viewed more than 12 billion times online, boasting about his lavish lifestyle and urging men

00:11:12.840 to toughen up and take control of women. Life is war. It's a war for the female you want. It's a war

00:11:17.900 for the car you want. It's a war for the money you want. It's a war for the status. If you're a man

00:11:21.580 who doesn't view life as war, you're going to lose. I'm Paul Kenyon. I specialize in exposing criminality

00:11:27.560 and have family in Romania where Tate's empire prospered. And I'm Georgia Cohn. I'm from the

00:11:32.940 same town as Tate, Luton. I know the same neighborhoods and some of the same people.

00:11:37.260 My mom even grew up on the same council estate, Marsh Farm. We're doing this investigation

00:11:41.160 together because Tate's alpha male, ultra masculine message is aimed at young men. And his violent

00:11:47.280 misogyny is something women like me find upsetting. Yep. It's a very short comment. Violent

00:11:53.260 misogyny. So where's the evidence for that statement? So again, you've thrown a

00:11:57.400 statement out which sounds completely horrendous. Violent misogyny. Where's the evidence for

00:12:03.160 violent misogyny? So you're going to see through this piece. I've highlighted this point where

00:12:07.260 they'll make statements like these without ever backing it up with any evidence or data.

00:12:12.860 Are they making reference to the video clip of Andrew back in the day when he was quite a

00:12:19.220 bit younger where he was filmed beating a woman with a belt? It was revealed afterwards

00:12:27.020 that that was consensual on both sides. And some people are into that. Is that what they're

00:12:30.920 trying to amplify at this stage, do you think? Well, we don't know because they've not provided

00:12:35.160 any evidence. They do refer to that issue later. So we will go into detail about that when they bring it up.

00:12:40.920 And extremely offensive. Tate is being held in a Romanian prison over allegations of human

00:12:49.400 trafficking and rape. But he says it's all a setup by what he calls the Matrix, a conspiracy of the rich

00:12:58.240 and powerful to shut him up.

00:12:59.820 Justice, please, what evidence they have against me? It's nothing.

00:13:03.740 I just buried this so deeply. Tonight, Bonafour has an exclusive interview with a British woman

00:13:09.240 who says that she was controlled and abused by Andrew Tate. It was just constantly feeling

00:13:14.180 inferior to him. I realized I just couldn't live like that anymore. And it wasn't normal.

00:13:19.580 And I'm flying.

00:13:20.920 Sorry, I just want to pause on that for a moment here because I think it's relevant. Like, you know,

00:13:25.940 one of the soundbites that they drop in here several times throughout the cast is I felt

00:13:29.320 inferior to him. Like, I constantly felt inferior to him. Well, I mean, if you're a woman

00:13:33.960 and you're dating a guy that's massive, I mean, he's, you know, he's a giant. He's six foot two,

00:13:39.160 six foot three. He's a retired kickboxer. He's got lots of money. It's hard to feel superior to a guy

00:13:44.300 like that. So why is this being amplified, you know, is a question that I have. Like, you know,

00:13:48.860 I feel inferior to Elon Musk, right? I mean, me stating that, does that mean that Elon Musk is a

00:13:54.420 violent misogynist, you know, towards me? You see what I'm driving at?

00:13:57.860 It's an excellent point because someone's thought process of feeling inferior, inferiority should

00:14:02.060 never have a basis. I would say the significant reasons, I think you gave a prime example,

00:14:06.000 but there are significant reasons and psychology that causes one to feel inferior. I would say,

00:14:11.400 being Asian, coming from the United Kingdom, you have this kind of inferiority complex where

00:14:15.820 you're trying to think, trying harder, trying to pull yourself harder. Does that mean that now

00:14:19.180 our entire society has called that to happen? Probably not. So, yeah, there's significant

00:14:25.820 issues. I totally agree with what he said. All right, let's carry on.

00:14:29.680 To Romania, to ask whether his boasts of vast wealth are all that they seem, and what lies

00:14:36.200 behind his network of companies. Well, having seen the information that you've shown me, it is quite

00:14:41.900 hard to differentiate that from other networks I've seen which have ultimately ended up being shown to be

00:14:46.700 money laundering or other financial criminal networks. Tonight, the shocking story behind one of the

00:14:52.120 world's most infamous social media stars, and how he became an icon of young men looking for fast

00:14:57.540 money, fast girls, and internet stod.

00:15:00.260 I'll give it to him. This is a well-produced audio piece. The sound, everything. It's spot on. Like, they're

00:15:11.520 definitely driving at something here, right?

00:15:14.180 Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's good. And also, he's a very good narrator. Like, he knows how to use his

00:15:19.320 elocution at the right points to get his point across.

00:15:25.000 It's a cold morning in January, and I'm on my way to see a young woman with an important

00:15:30.940 story to tell. She's Andrew Tate's ex-girlfriend, and she's decided to give her first interview

00:15:36.840 to file on call. I think that's her, actually, because I recognise her from their pictures.

00:15:42.060 I'm meeting her in a car park of a motorway service station, because she's scared and doesn't feel

00:15:47.000 comfortable to let us visit her at home. She asks if we can talk in my car. We're going to call her

00:15:51.840 Sophie. She's worried about a possible online backlash from Tate's followers. Her words are

00:15:56.600 spoken by an actor.

00:15:59.740 Possibly. Yep.

00:16:01.620 So, first, there's two points here. The first thing is that they're saying they're dramatised

00:16:06.140 and saying she's too scared. She's going to meet in the car park. But later, on Twitter,

00:16:10.180 they said she's the seventh victim now, so she's going to be added to the case. If she's added

00:16:14.660 the case, she's not going to be anonymous. She's going to have to go to court. She's going to

00:16:18.080 have to be questioned. She's going to have to be cross-examined. So, again, it's

00:16:21.320 providing drama when, in reality, there's no basis for that drama, because she's going

00:16:27.240 to be coming out publicly. That's the first point. And the second thing is, the actor

00:16:31.000 that is playing the woman, what you'll see is, I'll have some comments about that later,

00:16:36.080 but just to highlight to the audience, this is an actor now. It's not an actual woman who

00:16:39.680 does this talking or crying.

00:16:42.460 Yeah, they've used a voice actor to, I guess, just read the lines that she stated.

00:16:46.720 I mean, that's a question. So, there's certain parts in there that the voice actor cries and

00:16:55.040 shows emotion. So, now, is that based on a script, where the script is telling her to

00:16:59.560 cry, or was she there when the interview was occurring? So, in your experience, what do

00:17:03.100 you think?

00:17:03.320 Yeah, I guess we'll find out when we listen to this.

00:17:06.500 And just take a breather, let us know, because we can do that.

00:17:09.080 Okay, thank you. Thanks.

00:17:12.360 She arrives wearing a black fur coat, looking flawless. She's nervous. Her hands are shaking

00:17:17.180 as she speaks.

00:17:18.520 It's very difficult, because I don't feel like a victim. I mean, all the choices I made

00:17:24.560 were of my free will. He didn't, you know, bundle me up in a bag, throw me in the back

00:17:28.580 of a lorry and drive you there.

00:17:30.320 Pause, please.

00:17:31.580 Yeah.

00:17:32.860 I mean, do we need any comments? She literally states the whole thing and just demonstrates

00:17:39.740 why this isn't trafficking. Basically, it was my free will. It was my choice. He didn't

00:17:44.860 force me to go.

00:17:46.860 Yeah. That's not going to serve them in court, will it? I don't think it will, anyway.

00:17:52.680 I mean, we'll see how the Romanian court system, you know, receive something like that.

00:17:56.440 But if I was on the defense side, I would definitely use that. Let's carry on here.

00:18:01.760 Point, does the emotional or psychological manipulation turn into being forced to do

00:18:07.220 something?

00:18:08.600 Andrew Tate and his younger brother, Tristan, are in custody in Romania while police

00:18:12.280 investigate allegations of rape, trafficking, and organized crime. Prosecutors say that the

00:18:17.240 brothers recruited victims by seducing them and falsely claiming they wanted a relationship

00:18:21.120 before manipulating them into working in their adult entertainment chat rooms.

00:18:24.980 Everyone's been in love before. Everyone knows the power of that emotion and the things

00:18:29.320 that you do for it. Any kind of rationale or logic kind of leaves your body and you find

00:18:33.780 yourself doing things that maybe you wouldn't normally do. And this is just another one of

00:18:37.540 those situations.

00:18:38.980 Awesome.

00:18:39.140 Since Sophie first met Andrew Tate.

00:18:40.240 So, look, I don't know the demographic of your audience, but if you're a male, this should

00:18:48.880 be a concern to you. Just think about how they're trying to frame this. What they're basically

00:18:53.440 saying is, if someone falls in love with you or you fall in love with them, how does that

00:18:59.400 work? Sometimes you do things for them. Sometimes they do things for you. So now, if someone's

00:19:03.840 in love with you, that person can say, at any time, because I was in love with that person,

00:19:08.840 I'm based on that, I didn't have autonomy. And so, therefore, that person did things to

00:19:13.140 me without consent. That's the extreme feminist world now we're moving towards. And this is

00:19:18.400 propagated by this documentary.

00:19:20.400 Yeah, that's a great point.

00:19:21.840 Tate. He's gone from obscurity to global internet sensation, with his hyper-masculine content

00:19:28.480 promoting male superiority spreading across all social media platforms. But his meteoric rise to

00:19:34.320 fame last year came as no surprise to Sophie. It was kind of annoying to see his name everywhere,

00:19:38.720 but I knew. I said it to all my friends. It's a matter of time before they figure out what's

00:19:42.560 really going on here. She spent months in Romania with Tate, believing that she was Tate's girlfriend.

00:19:46.880 But as you'll tell us later in this programme, he quickly became controlling and violent at his home

00:19:51.840 on the outskirts of Bucharest.

00:19:54.240 And that's where I'm heading now, a country I've been travelling back and forth to for nearly three

00:19:59.120 decades. Romania has changed a lot. There are Porsches and Ferraris driving down these boulevards today and

00:20:07.040 lots of young tech entrepreneurs posing outside fashionable restaurants. Now, I'm on my way to Andrew Tate's house.

00:20:13.600 I'm saying if you want to be happy as a man and you want to have a good relationship nowadays,

00:20:19.200 you've got to learn to pick up, sleep with, and you've got to learn to tear through some chicks.

00:20:23.680 So why did he leave Luton in the first place? And why Romania?

00:20:27.600 In the Western legal systems, if a girl says something, she needs zero proof. They will come

00:20:31.760 and they will arrest you and they'll put you on bail and they will search your stuff and go

00:20:34.160 through your phone and go through your personal life and find new things to charge you with.

00:20:37.840 It's insanity. And I thought I can't live under this system anymore,

00:20:40.080 so I had to move somewhere with common sense rules. Those common sense rules mean that the

00:20:44.400 Romanian prosecutor... It seems like he didn't escape that. He's dealing with the same issues

00:20:49.840 in Romania, isn't he? Yeah. And the thing is, I mean, it is ironic and I'll give the BBC producer

00:20:56.640 credit that he didn't reframe that as other people do. Others reframe it as making it look like he was

00:21:02.240 trying to break the law or he was trying to find another country where he could basically break the

00:21:07.280 law of, you know, take advantage of women. So just to just to give him some credit,

00:21:11.680 he actually pointed out quite rightly that it is a great irony that he went to a country thinking

00:21:16.480 the laws would be not as mental in terms of the MeToo movement and basically man-hate. But in reality,

00:21:22.240 he ended up getting stuck about the same situation. Yeah.

00:21:24.880 Which is now say he's too dangerous to release while they continue investigating his activities.

00:21:30.800 He might be having some regrets about that earlier interview.

00:21:33.920 This is probably 40% of the reason I moved to Romania. They go, oh, well, you're a rapist.

00:21:37.360 I say, no, I'm a fucking rapist. But I like the idea of being able to just say to do what I want.

00:21:41.520 I like being free. Right. I'm just approaching Tate's house along here. We've just been past a big

00:21:49.520 sprawling orthodox cemetery. And there's a rubbish tip here. And a lot of wasteland is pretty bleak.

00:21:56.400 And it's supposed to be just down here. And I've got to tell you, this isn't the kind of place

00:21:59.520 you'd expect a trillionaire to live at all. Tate's home looks more like a meat factory than a social

00:22:05.760 media star's villa. If I'd got here a week or so earlier, the car park outside would be full of

00:22:11.040 supercars, Lamborghinis, Bugattis. But they were seized by police after Tate and his brother were

00:22:16.960 arrested back in December. Police also found gold watches, guns, knives and money. The cars and watches

00:22:23.280 alone came to 3.7 million euros. There's property and land on top of that.

00:22:32.320 So here, this is going to be one example, but it happened throughout many times where

00:22:37.280 there'll be contradictions within this show. So first of all, he highlights the extreme value

00:22:42.400 of the assets that were seized. So he said 3.7 million, which would indicate that someone is

00:22:49.360 a wealth if they've got assets, disposable assets of that of that value. But then on the other hand,

00:22:55.600 he frames the entire discussion as trying to say, guess what? He has no money. It's all fake.

00:23:01.440 And he's trying to demonstrate a certain lifestyle that isn't seeped in reality. So that's one example

00:23:07.360 of contradiction. Another thing is that he tries to frame his house as some kind of meat factory. Now,

00:23:12.640 it could be possible. And from the pictures, it doesn't look luxurious from the outside,

00:23:16.800 but that's doesn't mean that it's not luxurious on the inside. So again,

00:23:20.000 it's the way he's framing it, which is to basically make it look like some kind of psychopath.

00:23:25.520 Yeah. And you know, Jerry's pointing out here in the chat, they keep using the term

00:23:28.800 trillionaire, which I think is an exaggerated term that Andrew used to sort of amplify his aura.

00:23:33.840 There's he's not a trillionaire, you know, trillionaires would have yachts and own private

00:23:38.880 jets. They don't, they don't rent them, you know, sort of thing. Like we don't even have

00:23:42.640 trillionaires like Elon Musk is a billionaire. That's it.

00:23:45.120 Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's not trillionaire. And again, that's an example of the media taking his

00:23:50.800 statements literally, like he's not a trillionaire. He's just a wealthy man. He's obviously a

00:23:55.200 millionaire. And also on top of that as well, I would say his company, the real world is probably

00:24:01.360 worth about, is probably a billion pound company. So depending on how you evaluate someone's worth,

00:24:06.400 there's different ways of doing it.

00:24:07.760 Yeah. All right, let's carry on here.

00:24:09.600 Where did it all come from? How did Tate amass such wealth?

00:24:13.920 Tate was a champion kickboxer, born in America, but trained in a looting gym.

00:24:18.640 I don't go down. I take my shit. Hey, the guy who gave me this black eye, he quit first,

00:24:23.280 because I busted him in his face and he fell down. So I still won.

00:24:25.600 Ripped, violent and hyper masculine. It would all feed into his later online persona. When he left the

00:24:31.520 ring, he was looking for fame. And in 2016, he appeared in Big Brother.

00:24:36.080 I don't care if nobody down there likes me. I'm sure by now, everyone's already

00:24:39.360 pre-decided they don't like me and that's fine. So I know I'm the most intelligent person in this

00:24:42.320 house. I know I'm the most capable person in this house. Fact.

00:24:44.800 But his first shot at fame went wrong. He was thrown out of the Big Brother house

00:24:48.400 after videos emerged of him beating an ex-girlfriend with a belt. Later, it turned out he'd also been...

00:24:54.080 So this one is well known through social media and it shows a lack of journalism,

00:25:00.160 a lack of either integrity or a lack of doing the job properly. Because in reality, when it

00:25:06.480 comes to this alleged beating, there's a significant amount of videos out there. It literally took me

00:25:11.760 like 20 minutes to find all the videos that a woman comes out who allegedly is beaten and comes out

00:25:18.800 twice or two times and says, I consented. And then she comes out another couple of times to say,

00:25:24.320 look, I support and retain. Now, why that's important is you've basically got a woman saying,

00:25:28.800 I consented. And obviously, those actions don't seem right. So for example, from my paradigm,

00:25:36.400 which is a traditional paradigm, that's unacceptable. But from a Western liberal paradigm,

00:25:40.720 this kind of king type behavior is normal. We've seen that from... And I had an interaction

00:25:46.240 with Kenyan about this. We saw that with 50 Shades of Grey, which is the biggest selling

00:25:52.720 book of all time, written by a woman, talking about very, very extreme king type behavior.

00:26:01.680 So to pretend that that doesn't exist in society is completely ridiculous. That's the first point.

00:26:06.960 And to ignore that the woman has come out and said it was consensual. And actually, there's even

00:26:12.880 a video where she actually says to him, look, you're not mad. You're not mad enough. You're

00:26:17.040 not hitting me hard enough. So there's even a video where she's basically go to him to say, look,

00:26:21.040 do a better job in this role play. So again, that's my comments on that.

00:26:25.440 Okay.

00:26:26.400 He's been under investigation by Hertfordshire police over allegations of rape. Allegations the Crown

00:26:31.760 Prosecution Service chose not to pursue in 2019 because there was no realistic prospect of a conviction.

00:26:37.200 Next, he launched a webcam business. Again, and this is what Vice tried to do as well. The issue in

00:26:46.560 United Kingdom with Hertfordshire police, they try and frame it as though, you know what, the police

00:26:51.120 dropped it. They didn't want to take it forward. No, that's not what happened. What happened was

00:26:57.040 in the United Kingdom, especially in the past, what they would do is whenever a woman claimed rape,

00:27:03.360 they would take their phones. They would then investigate their phones and analyze them. So

00:27:08.480 they did that with these two women who claimed that they'd been, you know, they'd been raped.

00:27:13.680 And when they'd gone and looked at those phones, what they found is that these women were sending

00:27:19.520 audio notes to each other, colluding to lie. And so when they saw that, they then decide that,

00:27:26.320 look, these women are colluding. And therefore, they decided to drop it based on that reason. They

00:27:32.080 also informed the women and said, guess what, this is the reason. The women informed Vice and said,

00:27:38.160 this was the reason why the investigation was dropped. But Vice, as well as Vice people who

00:27:44.080 were writing on Twitter, either didn't highlight it or framed it in a totally different manner.

00:27:48.240 And then you saw on BBC, where again, they framed it in an incorrect manner.

00:27:52.560 Yeah, I saw them breeze breeze over that evidence too. Like, it seemed clear to me that the English

00:27:58.240 authorities found there was insufficient evidence to pursue it. So they dropped it. And, you know,

00:28:03.840 not just insufficient, there was actually evidence shown they were colluding.

00:28:07.360 Collusion. Okay. Okay. Good point.

00:28:10.960 Paying women to perform sexual acts for men online, streaming the content to potentially

00:28:16.720 thousands of paying punters. It can be lucrative and take developed.

00:28:21.120 Punter is a British term for what simp?

00:28:24.560 Um, British. So I missed that. Sorry. British punter.

00:28:28.720 Yeah.

00:28:30.880 What does that mean? Punter?

00:28:32.960 I'm sorry. I missed the content. So punter could be someone who gambles as well,

00:28:35.920 but I'm not sure. I didn't. I missed the content.

00:28:37.600 All right. Let me just back it up. 20 seconds of play in 2019,

00:28:41.440 because there was no realistic prospect of a conviction.

00:28:44.560 Next, he launched a webcam business, paying women to perform sexual acts for men online,

00:28:50.800 streaming the content to potentially thousands of paying punters.

00:28:55.440 Oh, it just means paying people, I think.

00:28:57.280 Okay.

00:28:58.080 It can be lucrative and Tate developed a taste for it.

00:29:01.440 He wanted to expand. More women equals more money. And he came here to Romania.

00:29:07.680 We started this little webcam business from my apartment and it just grew and grew and grew.

00:29:10.720 And it got to the point where at one point I had 75 women working for me in four locations.

00:29:13.680 And I'm doing $600,000 a month from webcam.

00:29:16.080 In Romania, webcaming is not just legal, it's booming. It's supposed to be the biggest center

00:29:22.880 for that kind of entertainment in the whole of Europe. And it's another reason that Tate came

00:29:27.040 here in the first place.

00:29:30.480 So, sorry. I mean, yeah, I was going to say, it's not legal to run a webcam studio in Romania.

00:29:37.280 It's completely legal. Yeah?

00:29:38.880 Yeah. That's an important point to know, because again, everyone's been framing this whole thing as

00:29:46.080 illegality. But in reality, he said quite clearly, it's legal. And you'll see now,

00:29:51.040 you'll go to a studio and let's see how he frames that compared to the way he frames Tate's webcam

00:29:57.040 business.

00:30:04.080 Right. Where is this place? It's supposed to be up there on the sixth floor of a former shopping mall,

00:30:10.160 which has been converted into a 40-bedroom top-end webcam business. They're going to give me a tour.

00:30:17.440 For each of the rooms, we have a different design. So you're not going to have two rooms

00:30:21.120 at the same in our studio.

00:30:22.400 I'm at Best Studios in Romania's capital, Bucharest. This is the Rolls Royce of the webcam industry,

00:30:28.960 with acres of Italian marble floors, sumptuous furniture, and lots of young,

00:30:33.920 enthusiastic university graduates on its books. Maria Boragina is the operations manager. Dressed

00:30:40.320 in expensive silk blouse, hair cropped and bleached blonde, she's a former webcam woman herself.

00:30:46.000 We are a studio. We provide models the space from where they can stream online.

00:30:50.320 We provide them the training and everything they need to be a good model online.

00:30:54.720 She explains that the girls are treated like stars, given tuition.

00:30:58.960 Now, sorry, I'm just going to pause it for a sec. I'm not, I'm not clear because as I understand it,

00:31:04.480 Andrew and Tristin got out of running webcam girls years ago. They found the drama between the girls

00:31:11.120 and the effort required like the ROI to run the business wasn't really worth it. So from what I

00:31:18.320 understood from my conversations with him, they got out of the business. But the way that they're

00:31:22.320 describing this conversation is this unit, this unit on the sixth story of this old shopping plaza

00:31:28.800 with 40 rooms is still being run by him. Is that correct? No, no. So what they're trying to say is

00:31:34.000 they're going to a different webcam studio, which he's claiming is the Rolls Royce of webcam studios.

00:31:40.080 So this has no affiliation with the tits. And so that's important because look how he's framing it.

00:31:45.200 Oh, it's amazing. You know, they train the women. It's a very brilliant broad business model.

00:31:51.040 They give the kids women training, they provide a platform, it's marble floors and so on and so

00:31:56.480 forth. So can you see how he's framing this entire business as something which is

00:32:00.320 done in a, in a brilliant manner. Now compare that to the way he's framing the way the tits are doing

00:32:06.240 the business very differently because he doesn't know if the women are in good condition when it

00:32:12.080 comes to tear and actually based on the documents that we've released at the moment, there's been

00:32:16.480 zero allegations that the conditions were terrible. So from that one can surmise that conditions were

00:32:21.680 good. And yet he's framing one is good and one is bad. In terms of your second point about the webcam

00:32:26.640 from the court documents, you're right. It doesn't seem like they're actually in trouble for webcam.

00:32:30.800 It seems like they're actually in trouble for OnlyFans and TikTok.

00:32:36.640 Okay.

00:32:40.960 Helped with makeup and clothes and that paying punters around the world log into their streams.

00:32:46.720 You have a free chat section where every member or guest of the site can see you and they have access

00:32:52.720 to you. And then you have a private session where the members, they have to pay to see you and talk to

00:32:58.000 you. So you are not allowed to show nudity at all. Then you have the freemium side where in free chat,

00:33:04.000 they allow you to do whatever you want. You can be naked, you can use sexual toys. It depends on you,

00:33:09.040 whatever you want to do.

00:33:10.000 The company takes around 10% of the women's earnings, though it's standard for studios to take up to 50.

00:33:16.720 Maria explains that great care.

00:33:18.480 Another important point. He says it's standard practice for studios to take 50%.

00:33:27.280 And in the court documents, it states that the worst woman, so the worst claim, the worst claim is in

00:33:35.280 terms of the proportion she receives is the woman says, I received 50% and Andrew Tate received 25%.

00:33:42.480 So she is receiving double of what Andrew Tate is receiving. So that is important because this

00:33:50.720 Rolls Royce or standard practice, what he calls, it's not the Rolls Royce, but the standard practice

00:33:55.680 that he called, what he calls standard practice is 50%. So how is that extortion? Why that's important

00:34:01.120 is an important element of human trafficking is that you're exploiting or it's essentially modern day

00:34:07.520 slavery. So the person, people are working on a slave contract. So how can it be that you're working

00:34:12.880 on a slave contract when you're receiving 50% of the revenue whilst Andrew Tate is receiving half of

00:34:20.240 that and he has to pay for the, whatever the normal business expenditures.

00:34:25.600 Now, now the critics watching this will bark if I don't bring this up, but there's a video out there

00:34:29.920 somewhere. I think of a private educational course that he sold where he states that he would tell the

00:34:36.080 girls that it would be 50, 50, but he needs them to fill out a form to withhold, uh, whatever it was,

00:34:41.280 20% taxes. So they would get 30, but he would never pay the taxes and throw the, like the form in the

00:34:46.080 garbage. How does that, um, how do you think that that's going to affect his case?

00:34:50.960 Well, I think that's an important point you made because what it is is first of all, that's a very old

00:34:55.280 video. So let's assume there's two possibilities. Either he did do that or he was just saying it as

00:35:03.600 bravado. And what people don't understand is in terms of the bravado aspect, one has to understand

00:35:09.440 that where he's come from. He's come from basically Luton, which is, and from a council estate, which

00:35:16.080 if you were to provide a comparison to the United States is like a ghetto. So when people come from

00:35:21.520 that kind of upbringing, you have, you talk in this way, this kind of like gangster type way. Look, I'm a

00:35:26.240 G I'm a gangster. I made a trillion, you know, I'm giving that girl 30%, but really should be 50%.

00:35:33.040 So there's a possibility that he was talking in that manner, but less. So that's one possibility.

00:35:37.520 And one could not be convicted on what you say online, unless you've, there's demonstrated

00:35:41.920 evidence that you've done that. For example, if I say I killed Malcolm, but Malcolm's not dead,

00:35:48.480 I'm not going to get convicted for killing him. It doesn't matter what I said online. But if I said,

00:35:52.000 I killed Malcolm and then Malcolm's actually dead, then you're like, well, you know what? This sounds

00:35:55.440 like a confession. So him saying it, there has to actually be evidence that he's done it.

00:36:00.800 So now looking at it, the evidence is suggesting he didn't do it. The evidence is saying actually

00:36:06.080 he received half. So he received 25% and the women received 50% as opposed to what that video is saying,

00:36:12.240 where he received 70% and the women received 30%. That's the first point. The second point that

00:36:16.800 even in that video, he contradicts himself a few times. First, he says, I take all the money.

00:36:20.960 So you can sniff that out and make him look bad. In the same video, he says, we get 50-50.

00:36:24.880 And then later in the video, he says, oh, I gave her 30 because of tax reasons.

00:36:28.640 So they're the two points that I think are quite important about that issue.

00:36:32.880 Okay.

00:36:33.200 ...is taken when it comes to recruitment to make sure the women are under no pressure

00:36:38.560 or being exploited.

00:36:39.760 If she doesn't feel comfortable, she can leave anytime. They don't have a contract here

00:36:44.480 to keep them collaborating with us. She can leave anytime she wants. It's very strange because if you

00:36:49.600 go to any webcam model in Romania, she will never tell you that she was feeling that fear and that

00:36:57.120 she was coerced to stay in a studio. Never. The same can't be said for Sophie. Tate's ex from the UK.

00:37:04.400 She thought that she was going to be his girlfriend. She had no idea what actually lay in store.

00:37:09.600 He approached me on Facebook originally, completely out of the blue. It didn't ring any bells. But just

00:37:16.160 right off the back, the way he spoke, the way he made me feel, he was very charming and he made

00:37:20.400 himself seem very familiar. He made me feel very comfortable. There were no red flags at all in

00:37:25.840 the beginning. He just took an interest in my day-to-day life, wanted to know what I was into,

00:37:29.760 what made me happy. It was developing naturally. Sophie says that he then asked her to join him in

00:37:35.440 Romania. She'd never met him before but it felt right to Sophie in that moment. I was at a stage

00:37:40.960 of my life where everything sort of felt a bit boring and a bit dull and this idea of an adventure

00:37:46.000 and then lifestyle and this guy seemed so into me and he's making me smile every day and the idea just

00:37:51.360 seemed attractive to me. So Sophie came to Romania and she ended up in Tate's weird meat factory home.

00:37:58.640 So can you see again she's providing consent. She said look at this guy, we started a relationship,

00:38:06.080 I really liked him and then I decided to move out. The presenter says Tate suggested it. Irrespective of

00:38:12.720 who suggested this, she's completely been clear that it was her autonomous decision to move to Romania.

00:38:18.400 So is that now the case that if somebody, if two people are in love or they meet each other from

00:38:23.200 different cities and one person moves and they don't like the relationship, you can then basically claim

00:38:27.760 human trafficking because again that's how they're framing it. So can you see how when you're framing

00:38:32.240 these ideas the ramifications of it. That's why I say you may not like it, you might not like the

00:38:37.520 things he's done, you may not like the entire industry that he's part of but when you're basically

00:38:42.800 highlighting certain issues and framing them as trafficking or framing them as rape, you better be

00:38:47.760 well damn sure that whatever principle you're using that they're very well defined principles because

00:38:54.240 guess what they always go after people you don't like first and then they then use them principles

00:39:00.800 to go after you. Yeah this is um yeah let's let's carry on let's carry on with this.

00:39:07.200 At the start he was quite charming but then something strange happened.

00:39:12.400 The first couple of days of being with him he was as I expected him to be and then I can't remember how

00:39:17.440 long I was there for the first time I think it was four or five days it was quite a long time

00:39:21.280 considering it was the first time we'd met but he just disappeared in the middle of the night he

00:39:25.600 was in bed next to me and I heard him get up and I thought he's just gone to the bathroom

00:39:29.280 and he just didn't come back. Sophie was in his house alone for days the man she thought was her

00:39:34.400 boyfriend had vanished it was odd and in hindsight a little disturbing but she had no idea that this

00:39:41.280 was his mo that he targeted women that he hoped would work in his expanding webcam empire treating them

00:39:46.800 like property. So two points first thing is he disappears for five days you move to a different

00:39:55.200 country if that doesn't ring alarm bells what does like if you've got an issue there you could have left

00:40:00.000 why didn't you leave first point second point is this he she says that he treats women as property

00:40:06.960 she doesn't provide the data or evidence for this but one can only surmise that she's referring to the

00:40:12.560 interview with pierce morgan i assume if she's referring to the interview with pierce morgan he's

00:40:19.200 quite clear that what he means by that is not property in terms of an asset but what he means

00:40:24.720 is in a traditional family whether it comes to the judo christian or muslims or the abrahamic religions

00:40:30.640 there's this idea that when you get married there's one pays a dowry to the family and there's a contract

00:40:36.400 that occurs and then the woman is then becomes part of the man's family so he explains that quite

00:40:41.200 well and explains his reasoning for it even if you may disagree but what i will say is this the

00:40:46.720 reason why the west find that harder to believe is because in the west they actually consider men

00:40:51.520 the property of women because if you look at it and i can just give the united kingdoms example

00:40:56.400 in the united kingdom men are the property of women because as soon as you get married to a woman

00:41:01.840 it's you're basically signing a deal to say there's a one-way monogamous relationship where a man

00:41:08.320 isn't allowed to cheat if he does she will divorce him and she will take half of everything he's got

00:41:15.360 on the other hand a woman doesn't sign the same agreement because she can be polygamous she can cheat

00:41:22.400 on him and there's no ramifications because if she does what what will happen the man then has a decision

00:41:30.240 to make either he accepts it and allows the polygamous relationship to continue and or he says this is

00:41:37.120 unacceptable if he says it's unacceptable he divorces her she takes half of everything he's got so in the

00:41:43.920 west manage the property of war and hence why they don't like that statement yeah that's a fair statement

00:41:49.120 uh we got a question here were the tates still doing webcam work in 2022 i don't know if you caught it

00:41:53.680 earlier but i asked them about it during a podcast and my understanding was they got out of the

00:41:59.760 business years ago i don't know if you've heard anything different um yeah so according to their

00:42:04.080 documents if they weren't doing webcam it's actually on uh only fans and um only fans okay all right let's

00:42:12.160 carry on here user's guide for how to recruit women into webcamming which he shared on something called

00:42:18.400 pickup artist tools.com not a site i frequent in it tate explains the secrets of how we target

00:42:27.200 sorry let me just pause that for a second because i because i looked up pickup pickup artist tools.com

00:42:32.720 it's an affiliate site that that links to a lot of different pickup artists courses and material i don't

00:42:39.520 believe that the tates put their material there i believe they have an affiliate code that's listed

00:42:43.440 somewhere and whoever runs the site posts the link to all these offers that they have out there

00:42:48.640 so i think they frame that unfairly yeah that's that was my understanding as well it's young

00:42:54.240 sometimes vulnerable women listen to this i don't mention webcam until after i've had sex with a girl

00:43:01.600 if you're on dates and you're trying to mention it and it just doesn't work it puts them all i'd never

00:43:05.760 do that that's disgusting i'm not a whore it's just not gonna work listen to what sophie says happened

00:43:11.680 when she finally flew in to romania there was no mention of webcaming when they talked on facebook

00:43:16.400 she thought that this was about romance i didn't really think of you know what could this really

00:43:20.160 be about and it didn't really cross my mind so there was some naivety there i guess from my part

00:43:25.920 and here's tate again teaching how to exert pressure on potential recruits then you start

00:43:31.200 mentioning things like yeah but you know you're always busy you're always at work you can come work

00:43:35.280 for me a couple of times he said to me oh you should do it you make a fortune but you don't have to

00:43:39.920 you know if you don't want to you don't have to do it you can do nothing so two points the first

00:43:46.240 thing is this is again people's incorrect understanding of how it works they are trying

00:43:50.560 to make it look like that this lover that boy method or whatever you call it is actually illegal

00:43:56.000 in itself but it's not because this is a normal mechanism by which people start relationships you

00:44:01.680 know you provide you know you demonstrate the best part of you the woman demonstrates the best part

00:44:05.760 of that and then you decide to go in a relationship it's only when you then apply this and it meets

00:44:10.880 the standards of human trafficking like i said previously slavery not being able to have free

00:44:16.080 movement and so on and so forth then and you meet all them conditions does that apply and then you

00:44:21.040 apply to human trafficking so it's people trying to incorrectly applying so people i've seen it

00:44:26.080 online where they're automatically like guess what this looks like lover boy he's guilty no that's just

00:44:31.520 one aspect to use to then prove the greater aspect which is human trafficking and they failed to do

00:44:37.520 that and the second point is this she says he says to her you don't have to do it if i don't you don't

00:44:43.440 want to that sounds like consent yeah they always had the option to leave and they were getting paid

00:44:50.800 so how are they held against their will that's that's the confusing part right yeah

00:44:55.200 make enough money as i said you cannot try and approach girls to do webcam so you don't want

00:45:03.680 girls in it for money you want girls in it to be with you but he was always reminding me that the

00:45:08.320 option was there and that kind of progressed into well if you love me you would do it if you care

00:45:13.520 about me you would do it because you know this is my business and we can build something together

00:45:17.520 and make all this money and we can buy property and we can invest and we can build this this thing

00:45:22.000 together now tape talks about closing the deal so just a quick one we'll build it together we'll make

00:45:30.400 money together we'll buy properties together that is a business deal a business transaction where two

00:45:38.080 family members have gone are part of a business family members in terms of because they have a

00:45:42.560 relationship in this regard so again that does not that demonstrates that it doesn't meet the standards

00:45:47.120 of human trafficking once again he says you take the woman to a smart restaurant where a previously

00:45:53.760 recruited webcomer will come along and help with the coercion it starts with alcohol martinis martinis

00:46:00.160 martinis bang threesome slamming both the bottom bitch knows this girl's like okay well i'll try it

00:46:05.760 put both girls on camera together the first day give them a bottle of vodka the guys will send loads of

00:46:10.240 money to get the girls drunk i think over time just chipping away at me eventually he led me to think

00:46:15.440 yeah maybe he's right so can you see how he's they've played that clip to make andrew taste sound

00:46:20.720 bad which obviously it doesn't sound great but the woman in in the women's story there's no woman who

00:46:25.360 talks to her there's no bottom b who comes and talks to her and tries to convince her so again you see

00:46:30.000 how they play in audios but then her story doesn't match those audios yeah they don't line up

00:46:35.760 maybe i should be doing it and i guess it depends on the individual girl the tactics

00:46:44.080 he uses it depends on the situation the roadie will go down to get them to doing it that's how

00:46:48.320 you recruit girls do not recruit girls any other way more than a thousand miles away from book arrest

00:46:54.640 in my car in that motorway service station car park sophie had a lot of time to reflect on those

00:46:59.440 years with andrew tate she'd done modeling and pole dancing before working for tate so it was an

00:47:05.280 industry that she'd been on the fringes of but she'd been pulled in by takes promise of romance

00:47:09.920 and had never planned to end up in the situation she found herself pause please it's all so from my

00:47:16.160 information she was in the business but let's just go with what she said so she was a pole dancer so and

00:47:23.040 she says is the industry she was on the fringes of my argument is actually if you're in a strip club

00:47:28.720 and you're a pole dancer you are in the sex industry and you're in it from a more physical interaction

00:47:34.800 when it comes to men as opposed to being behind the camera

00:47:40.640 uh we got a question here or sorry statement the woman that that woman was deluded in her own

00:47:46.080 fantasy of a relationship and decided to take revenge when she realized her fantasy was nothing

00:47:50.160 in reality and she couldn't face her delusions victim mindset um look you know women always reserve

00:47:56.480 the right to change their mind at any given time and if you too become popular and famous and say

00:48:02.400 controversial things in ways that aren't warm and fuzzy and covered in rainbows and butterflies

00:48:07.200 you too could be you know in andrew tate's type of scenario so this this is something that men need

00:48:12.800 to pay attention to you know if we're being honest here yeah you need to be safe manipulation and

00:48:18.720 there's an ulterior motive to everything he does it's difficult for people to understand that haven't

00:48:23.200 felt how manipulative he is or other men can be unless you've you've had an experience of that

00:48:29.920 what she's described to georgia appears to be a form of psychological coercion which in the uk

00:48:35.600 is called grooming and in romania has a different name though it's just as serious what you're talking

00:48:41.280 about is something that we call the romeo trafficker or the lover boy technique iona bauer is from romanian

00:48:48.000 ngo e liberare that helps women who've been trafficked victims will not necessarily self-identify as

00:48:54.160 victims they're always going to find explanations of why that is happening however you always have to

00:48:59.520 follow the money who is profiting from there is the trafficker actually taking money that's being

00:49:05.200 generated by that particular person we tend to think of human trafficking as forcing people across

00:49:11.200 borders and keeping them against their will but psychological coercion is also a form of this dirty business

00:49:18.000 human trafficking is actually hidden in plain sight the chains that we maybe imagine they're not always

00:49:23.280 visible a lot of times they're psychological it might be the fact that they're so ashamed somebody's

00:49:28.400 going to find out what has happened to them that they're literally stuck i went back to pipera

00:49:34.160 the neighborhood where tate's house is because we'd had a tip-off nearby in a row of

00:49:39.840 so i did talk about the lover boy method but and i've already demonstrated why that's flawed but look

00:49:45.440 again another example so they're saying is psychological coercion and then what what do

00:49:51.680 they mean by that how do how do you know something a psychological conversion uh coercion because in

00:49:56.960 reality when you look at the information that's been presented it's mainly a guy and a girl who liked

00:50:02.720 each other the girl came over to romania and there was some kind of relationship there was a possibility

00:50:08.640 of webcam or she did do it for a short period of time how was that coercion like that it just does not

00:50:13.920 meet the requirements and why that's a concern once again is i don't want i keep talking about it

00:50:19.600 but look we do live in a world a man-hating world where men's problems are completely ignored and so

00:50:27.760 now you're having a scenario where a man can be taken out for the minimalist reason because you can

00:50:31.920 literally just say he's psychologically manipulating me and you can basically accuse him of anything and

00:50:37.760 just to demonstrate that men hatred is so high because look even this issue rape we know data

00:50:45.920 data completely shows that actually it's men who are raped more than women in the united states and

00:50:50.800 yet no one will ever tell you that men go through significant issues that with that women don't go

00:50:55.520 through but no one ever highlights it because we live in a world where nobody cares about men and so

00:50:59.760 this is another way of degrading men i know i know men that have been raped and nobody listens nobody

00:51:07.760 cares it's how you know how do you rape a man i'll tell you the story one day offline when we're not

00:51:14.160 running the camera but women have done it uh let me just throw this up on the screen here uh tom says uh

00:51:20.400 why not hold women accountable who lure thirsty men online end up fleecing them for money with the promise of

00:51:25.920 meeting up for love intimacy yeah look it's you know it's very true like there's women that is

00:51:33.680 psychological coercion and the second thing is what tom's actually highlighted is something even more

00:51:39.360 important this entire industry which everyone's been telling you is the manipulation of men or women

00:51:45.200 sorry or the exploitation of women is not this entire industry and i mean all of these industries are

00:51:52.320 actually exploitation of men so whether it's webcam only fans tick tock instagram all of these are

00:51:59.360 what go get trying to get to men who don't have the ability to interact with women and basically

00:52:05.120 manipulating them to give them significant amount of money if that if if you're talking about exploitation

00:52:11.440 and psychological exploitation i would say that is a greater or a higher degree of exploitation than

00:52:17.440 anything we're talking about in the show up to now yeah let me state this look you know a woman can

00:52:24.000 attract a massive audience like there's a very clear path that i see on tiktok where you see a

00:52:28.960 woman dancing she's in something extremely provocative and she says i like dad bods pear-shaped men men over

00:52:36.160 60 and nerds like me and she's a smoke show she's a tent right and then you click on her bio and it takes

00:52:41.600 you to instagram because they can't put only fans in the bio of tiktok but they can in instagram and on

00:52:47.360 instagram oh look there's her only fans and then they lure these guys in and then they end up

00:52:52.560 selling them uh jars of their farts jars of their bath waters they'll they'll they'll ship out use

00:52:57.920 tampons and these thirsty bettas pay for it but that's okay because then they're strong and empowered

00:53:02.400 and they're entrepreneurs but when a man is running the only fans or the cam girl studio

00:53:07.680 then all of a sudden when women want to change their minds about it uh you know they have a different

00:53:12.000 view right excellent brookside style semis is a house where some of tate's webcam women perform

00:53:21.360 one of them's on the doorstep she turns out to be a romanian woman in her early 20s

00:53:26.720 called jasmina and on her arm is a tattoo that says tate's name like she's been branded

00:53:33.600 she didn't want to speak to us but she's being treated as a victim by romanian prosecutors

00:53:41.520 hi georgia um we've just met a couple of tate's web cameras and they've got these tattoos on their

00:53:46.160 arms that say things like tate's girl or tate's property it's like a kind of branding or something

00:53:51.040 yeah i think sophie has a tattoo as well and she talked about how angie tate convinced her it was a

00:53:56.160 good idea to have one even though she now realizes how crazy it sounds there was another girl that had one

00:54:01.600 done he was sending me pictures i've never heard one of these girls that say that they had they

00:54:06.960 had tattooed themselves under duress like like you know they were marched into a tattoo parlor and

00:54:11.680 branded or anything like this i mean look you know it's a voluntary movement you know if a woman puts

00:54:16.640 your name on her body consider it as uh you know like a highest form of flattery totally agree and the

00:54:23.920 second point i want to know is again uh paul kenyon said on twitter guess what there's secret

00:54:30.320 recordings in this which and he tried to infer that there was some big bombshells i was like oops

00:54:34.720 i'm not meant to say that if this is the secret recording there's nothing there

00:54:40.000 like what are you on about so i guess i guess that i i accept i understand that he's trying to sell his

00:54:45.280 uh documentary so that people watch it but it's just ridiculous

00:54:48.960 you're out of it saying look i don't give a shit about her she's nothing to me she just works for

00:54:55.520 me and she did it so why haven't you done it why haven't you got one you're my you know you're my

00:54:59.520 girlfriend you're obviously not that committed and it felt like it was something that i had to do

00:55:05.120 so there she was branded with andrew tate's name and she says doing everything he asked her to do to

00:55:10.240 keep him happy but the control was getting worse if she went out with friends without his permission

00:55:15.440 she'd have to pay a fine this form of control and domination a kind of assertive masculinity

00:55:21.920 had fed into andrew tate's persona on social media an alpha male a hustler who boasts of having

00:55:27.840 underworld connections sprawled in front of a blanket of dollar notes a cigar permanently gripped

00:55:33.760 between his teeth his nickname became top g in street slang the g stands for gangster top g is an

00:55:41.600 individual who is capable in all realms when you are top g you are dangerous at everything that's

00:55:45.680 why i'm top g you might laugh at some of tate's online rants but this is serious and dangerous

00:55:50.960 stuff that millions of young people are buying into there's a large contingent of men out there

00:55:55.760 who don't want to wear makeup who don't want to be girls who don't have filthy social media accounts

00:56:00.160 with posts urging men to seize back their masculinity we want to have hot chicks and there's nothing

00:56:04.800 wrong with us we are not evil we are not bad it's worth knowing that some of what tate says is

00:56:09.600 reasonable and constructive he speaks about curing low self-esteem among young men telling followers

00:56:15.600 to rise early train at the gym push themselves to succeed but he throws into the mix some toxic

00:56:22.080 misogyny and it can be difficult for teenage boys to disentangle the good from the bad slap slap grab

00:56:29.520 choke shut up bitch sex he's talking openly about violence against yeah i think we've seen that clip

00:56:35.920 yeah so everybody knows this clip again it either shows shoddy journalism or nefarious reasons for

00:56:44.240 not showing it and actually on twitter already there was there's a twitter handle called sense who's

00:56:50.400 demonstrated has shown the entire clip where it's literally he's explaining that when a woman attacks

00:56:56.160 me this is what would happen so again when you take things out of context you can make anyone look bad but

00:57:01.360 again another horrendous example of what bbc did and the vice did the exact same thing

00:57:08.320 guys you have to be very very careful about what you put out there you know um some have said that

00:57:14.720 he just flew too close to the sun and he's you know he's very you know andrew's a very opinionated

00:57:21.200 man i know luton like i was born in luton you know i know what the town's like you know we left england

00:57:25.600 when i was very young obviously um that's that's the kind of care caricature that you sort of develop

00:57:31.920 coming from that sort of environment and i get the like the comical part of it like i get the comedy

00:57:39.200 underneath it but i think that if you strip that away completely and just listen to the literal words

00:57:44.240 that's where you run into problems 100 but i think i think that's unfair to basically ignore the

00:57:50.160 person's background and upbringing what essentially they're gonna this thing is guess it's unfair but

00:57:55.040 it's convenient though isn't it yeah yeah let's go back on the screen here it's women who wouldn't

00:58:03.520 do as he said and by august 2022 he'd been banned from all the major social media platforms but far

00:58:09.760 from neutering him his notoriety exploded his content has been viewed 12 billion times on tiktok

00:58:17.040 eclipsing hollywood actors and rock stars teachers across the uk are becoming increasingly concerned

00:58:22.960 about tate's influence on the boys in their classroom they've arranged workshops and extra

00:58:27.440 training to tackle his potentially dangerous influence on young people and it's not just the

00:58:31.920 uk where he's having an impact if you've never met a tate fan just follow me into this coffee bar

00:58:37.840 beside a prestigious high school in a wealthy district of bucharest i think yes we love him he just

00:58:44.800 speaks for most of our people he teaches us important lessons about life he teaches us things

00:58:49.520 that we are not taught at school like how to act when you talk to a girl when you need to start a

00:58:54.320 business yeah but the way he tells you to talk to girls is not good is it because it's quite bullying

00:58:59.440 and it's quite misogynistic no pause please again can you see the leading question the way he tells you

00:59:05.920 to talk to the girls is misogynistic and uh it's inappropriate so again he's asking these boys leading

00:59:14.080 questions and even then they say no no that's not what he taught us so can you see how there's this

00:59:18.000 kind of agenda playing and even then the boys are young lads who are easily impressionable like no

00:59:22.320 that's that's not what he teaches us yeah like i said earlier you know you this is a fishing expedition

00:59:27.760 they're going to try to catch something and if you can't catch it you're gonna have to try to manufacture it

00:59:32.000 so that's why you ask these leading type of questions right it depends on the girl honestly

00:59:37.760 if you if you find a girl that is like educated stuff he talks about you won't work on that girl

00:59:42.080 but if you talk to a hoe you talk to a what

00:59:47.360 to a hoe yeah what would your mom say if she saw how he spoke um she would be not okay with it but she

00:59:53.600 would not disagree honestly come on you're kidding me your mom wouldn't like it if he

00:59:57.840 can you see this is an example of what i'm talking about i don't know kenyan's background

01:00:04.160 but he's a he he seems like he's a he seems like he's from an affluent background and so he doesn't

01:00:10.480 understand the psyche of working class people when they talk in a certain manner so when he uses that

01:00:16.480 word which obviously we find inappropriate but in street talk that's just normal talk what they mean

01:00:22.160 is a loose woman so i can say loose woman and that's another word for it in the streets so it

01:00:27.840 just demonstrates how he finds it shocking but then these young lads who probably were from what

01:00:32.160 working class backgrounds as well are explaining our mom would not find a problem with it why because

01:00:37.440 it's just a terminological use it's inappropriate to use in a public space but what they basically

01:00:42.400 mean is a loose woman so again can you see how an affluent man is not understanding the psyche of the

01:00:48.400 working class yeah let me say this as well look you know men are considered you know success objects

01:00:54.560 and women are beauty objects and when women's value is derived from their purity right so when a woman

01:01:01.120 violates that then there's a label attached to that now it's it's completely okay and i heard this on

01:01:05.840 the radio this morning on one of these um you know sequences where there's a couple that call in

01:01:11.200 and she's calling him on the air broke a loser because he doesn't have money so it's okay to shame

01:01:16.160 a guy because his financial you know status but it's not okay to say something that might be

01:01:21.360 considered as derogatory if she's had a promiscuous past right like these are just observations that

01:01:25.920 you have to sort of take into place in the world that we live in today i think you've just hit the

01:01:30.160 nail on the head you see the double standards in society if you look at it you mentioned about rape

01:01:34.800 what happens to in the media how is male rape or male um castration dealt with it's dealt with with

01:01:44.080 the humor it's funny it's funny but would that work with women no it wouldn't so for example

01:01:48.640 if you're talking about castrating a woman's uh woman's um parts would that be acceptable no it

01:01:53.920 wouldn't so you could just see how a man has been ridiculed in society they basically you're allowed

01:01:59.280 to do anything to a man whereas the same doesn't work for women so it is that's the society we live in

01:02:04.320 it's a man hatred society women and what about your mom she wouldn't like it but there are some

01:02:11.440 things that i agree with that he talks about like uh trying to bring back uh masculinity you're against

01:02:17.120 the top g what why do you call him the top g because he's the top g he's famous he has money he has

01:02:21.840 females he has everything what these young men tend not to talk about is the violent nature of tate's

01:02:27.120 relationships with women and sophie was experiencing tate's violence first hand please there was just

01:02:33.680 a short comment but so they don't experience the violent nature they don't experience it so what

01:02:38.960 she's actually saying is guess what he she believes that he's got a violent nature but that's not what

01:02:45.280 the young people are learning so if anything she's defeating her point saying the young people are not

01:02:49.840 learning the bad things from him they only learn the good things from him

01:02:52.160 some disagreement about something and he just you know he held me up against the wall and he slapped

01:03:00.720 me really hard and followed it with you whore you something or other in bed raw sex turned into

01:03:07.120 something she hadn't consented to look i'll say this you know if a man throws you up against the wall

01:03:12.160 and slaps you then there should be a police record for that for any of that it doesn't matter who does it

01:03:16.560 to him just saying exactly and that's that's my that's what my advice to all women is if a man hurts

01:03:23.440 you really if he takes advantage of you and if he does something non-consensual go to the police

01:03:31.200 immediately you will have our support because we're not saying no none of these things happen what we're

01:03:37.840 saying is if there's a scenario where something happens and then you continue your relationship for

01:03:42.560 months and months and years and years and then you claim that rape happened three years earlier

01:03:47.600 even though your relationship continued for three years after that period that's when there's going

01:03:51.680 to be question marks about it and there's and there's missing context too we have no idea if she threw

01:03:57.760 things at him if she attacked him you have no idea what the other side of the story this is just her

01:04:02.640 making a statement you know for convenience most of the violence was was sexual that's obviously

01:04:11.200 something that he's into he likes to feel completely in control of the woman and feel like

01:04:17.280 he could take their life away at any second that is a big sexual turn on for him which is crazy and

01:04:22.560 disgusting but at the time i was just hang on hang on hang on 50 shades of gray is entirely based on

01:04:30.560 this fault like this is what women subscribe to when you look at the google searches of what women

01:04:35.280 use on internet for their their smut what turns them on pirates billionaires surgeon women love a

01:04:43.040 powerful strong man right uh you know this is just to add to that i agree completely and just to add to

01:04:50.560 that in terms of um again i wrote my post saying look i expect the bbc documentary to be biased and so

01:04:56.000 on and so forth and then paul kenyon the guy who made this replied and said oh so it's okay to

01:05:02.240 choke a woman out so then i replied and said look there's significant data to suggest or for example

01:05:09.280 i showed somebody else showing the data and i said look it clearly shows that guess what women are

01:05:14.160 actually into this idea of asphyxiation where it's close to getting choked out and there's a kind of a

01:05:19.920 euphoria that occurs within it there's a lot of information that shows that there's been a lot of

01:05:24.240 medical journals that demonstrate that so and when i replied to him and refused this point there was no other

01:05:30.160 reply because he knows the data doesn't show the data suggests that actually women do partake in this

01:05:35.840 as well as there's a um there's a book that i um listen to it's on audible it's called a billion

01:05:42.080 wicked thoughts so if you want to get into what the human psyche is really about and what kind of

01:05:47.600 disgusting um things that women are attracted to men as well go go get that book and listen to it or

01:05:53.520 read it because it's got a lot of data in it factual data in fact this is just the tip of the iceberg here

01:05:58.560 so intent and again guys if it's consensual you know why does it matter i'm wanting to please him

01:06:06.400 and just wanting him to be happy that i was kind of just yeah okay do do whatever you want but yeah

01:06:12.160 looking back on sorry just one word consent consent okay

01:06:17.520 he uh he used to i mean he used to strangle me that that was the thing that he

01:06:25.120 so that to the point where i actually passed out once and i think he panicked then because

01:06:30.320 he knew he'd gone too far after some time sophie decided to leave andrew tate realizing that she'd

01:06:36.400 had enough of constantly feeling inferior to him mentally she was broken by the relationship

01:06:40.880 we put all of sophie's allegations to andrew tate's legal team we spoke to them by email and on the

01:06:47.760 so can you see again when she wanted to end the relationship she left so where's this kidnapping

01:06:54.560 trafficking and not being able to leave it's completely the opposite she had a relationship

01:06:59.200 she didn't like the relationship and she left fair point absolutely fine and finally we received

01:07:07.360 a whatsapp message they said they wouldn't be issuing a statement in april last year one of

01:07:13.120 tate's webcam women an american who lived in his house in bucharest contacted someone she knew in the

01:07:18.320 u.s hang on hang on hang let me just play this because i want to comment on this because i talked to

01:07:23.040 andrew about this to say she was being held against her will her call was the catalyst that led to the

01:07:29.200 tate's arrest and detention just after christmas an event that made headlines around the world

01:07:34.640 controversial online influencer sorry i have to touch on this because this is the story that

01:07:40.080 got them to swat his home last spring if you recall and i asked him about this shortly after

01:07:45.360 because i think i had him on a podcast just shortly after this all happened this this wasn't a woman

01:07:50.880 living at his house this is just a american gal that was uh partying at the tate's house and you

01:07:57.200 know they had girls over and drinking and you know they were having a good time and she was stupid

01:08:02.000 enough to post something on social media i think it was an instagram story if i recall correctly

01:08:06.800 and her boyfriend saw it and said what are you doing at the tate's house because he recognized

01:08:11.920 you know the background you know whatever was in the you know the artwork the decor the furniture

01:08:18.960 whatever and uh she lied and said that she was kidnapped so he called the embassy and said that

01:08:25.760 his girlfriend was kidnapped because she didn't want to be slut shamed for partying at the tate's house

01:08:29.920 with a bunch of other girls and a bunch of guys drinking and partying when she's in a relationship

01:08:33.680 so she lied and said that she was kidnapped and then that's how you know the authorities went over

01:08:37.760 to his house and raided him took him in for 10 12 hours um i don't know if you want to add to that or

01:08:43.440 yeah yeah just to add the girls version of events so um what the girl argues is that who she called

01:08:49.600 was her brother and he's the one who contacted the embassy so that's just the different versions of

01:08:55.920 event between the two um in terms of how long she was there for her entire human trafficking experience

01:09:02.880 was for six days yeah andrew tate has been detained in romania american british media personality and

01:09:14.640 former kickboxer and you treat has been detained by romanian process the woman i've met on that brookside

01:09:19.520 style estate the one who'd worked for tate suddenly appeared on social media saying she was not a victim

01:09:24.960 at all there are no victims in this case and i am not a victim and i feel it's very unfair that my

01:09:31.840 friends are being held as prisoners for crimes they didn't commit and also it's just for political

01:09:38.000 points the prosecutor is treating them as victims regardless their public denials don't surprise sophie

01:09:45.920 intentionally betrayed so this is an important point because jasmine and beatrice have come out

01:09:51.520 multiple times and said we're not victims and with both of them they clearly state look we're not

01:09:57.120 victims and tates are our family so now my question is this how have they deduced that guess what they

01:10:02.960 are victims the argument is guess what they've been brainwashed they've got stockholm syndrome how have

01:10:08.800 they then decided that they've got this uh men you know mental condition

01:10:13.680 you'll be surprised to learn they had a romanian court psychologist make this assessment on their

01:10:21.120 behalf how did they make the assessment don't know that your audience will be surprised to learn

01:10:27.520 that what happened was the woman from united states and the woman from uk moldova went to a psychologist

01:10:37.280 who wasn't caught appointed who gave the diagnosis that the other women who never saw the psychologist

01:10:44.400 are brainwashed so they received a diagnosis of being conditioned brainwashed stockholder syndrome

01:10:51.360 without ever seeing a psychologist for me that's huge and like everything we've heard so far all of

01:10:57.600 these women have basically said you know i had the choice to leave right like there's no woman that i've

01:11:02.960 heard thus far that said that i was detained against my will in some people very well knowing

01:11:09.120 that they're going to go out into the world saying all this great stuff about him equally there are

01:11:13.200 going to be girls that are in the mindset even if they are being treated badly that they will be

01:11:17.440 so infatuated and brainwashed by him that they're never going to say a bad word i'm able to speak

01:11:22.640 honestly now because i'm completely disconnected from him but there was something else nagging me about

01:11:27.120 the whole tate affair something maria at the anti-trafficking charity said follow the money

01:11:33.680 it's the mantra of every investigative journalist i returned to tate's home there's lots of rubbish at

01:11:39.760 the back an old skateboard an ikea lamp that's worth about 30 quid um loads of old bits of cement and

01:11:45.760 debris from building a basketball net you know it just does not feel like wealth so where is the

01:11:52.320 trillion dollars he says he has or is that just another overstatement created to help sell his

01:11:58.080 online persona something else intrigued me maria boroghina knows everybody in the webcam industry

01:12:05.840 but she'd never heard of andrew tate until his arrest did you know about his webcam business before

01:12:12.320 no which is unusual isn't it because you know a lot of people in this industry have been in it for a

01:12:16.560 long time i never saw them and we never talked about them uh i don't know how huge it is because

01:12:22.000 what i saw in the newspaper it was in a villa so that cannot be very huge do you think it's possible

01:12:27.760 that he would have earned what he claims are tens and tens of millions of dollars so quickly from this

01:12:33.120 industry alone if he claims that i would like him to come and train me because we are not able to do

01:12:39.440 that but it's what he's saying so again you have a problem where he's trying to basically frame it as

01:12:47.760 guess what the tates don't engage in the business that much so it defeats the whole case because in

01:12:52.960 the case they're trying to demonstrate that he's some kind of mastermind having a significant amount

01:12:57.200 of women doing the webcam business and now he's trying to argue that guess what it's not the case

01:13:01.760 the second point is he's making an assumption and saying to the woman maria you know everybody

01:13:05.680 like how is that a basis for understanding someone's in the business if she knows everybody

01:13:08.960 and she doesn't even answer that and she just says i wasn't aware of him

01:13:12.320 so again it's the way he's framing it if you look at it a lot of the information is from him as a

01:13:16.480 as opposed to maria

01:13:20.960 oh i don't know if it's true or not from my perspective it's not what about his ownership

01:13:27.920 of romanian companies well we discovered that after their compound was raided in april last year

01:13:34.160 the tate brothers began offloading some of their assets one company they hurriedly transferred to a

01:13:40.880 female associate georgiana nagel but she's now in custody too she moved it on to someone else and

01:13:47.920 that person was wait for it a porn star from grimsby the company is now in so he's done this

01:13:56.640 dramatization and said guess what it's someone from grimsby like i don't get it like what's the so what's

01:14:03.680 the conclusion of that there's no basis for it like he's not going to provide like what happens to that

01:14:08.720 company that's the end of it so can you see how like terrible the journalism is like either don't

01:14:13.040 mention i don't see the relevance like yeah i don't see the relevance of a porn star from from

01:14:18.560 be like what does that have to do with tate's incarceration exactly

01:14:23.840 anyway dubai and we can't access its records

01:14:32.240 i mean like you know pro tip for those of you that aren't entrepreneurs if you own a

01:14:36.400 pro a private company your records aren't public right i mean like it's only publicly traded companies

01:14:42.560 that are on stock markets you can get all those details into a casino in bucharest where tate has

01:14:47.360 been filmed and which he's supposed to part own he claims he began buying casinos after some casual

01:14:53.280 dealings with the romanian mafia there was a guy who owns 400 casinos three brothers mafia guys that

01:14:58.960 own 400 casinos throughout eastern europe i came up to him and said look i want to do a franchise with you

01:15:02.640 you know the drill by now he went to them got involved made a fortune designed a business model

01:15:08.160 tate has claimed he had 15 casinos earning him a million dollars a month well we searched high and

01:15:15.840 low in company records and we couldn't find any evidence that tate owned a single casino not the

01:15:21.120 james bond and martini variety anyway in romania when they say casino they also include slot machine

01:15:27.280 arcades in that you know end of the pier stuff and it does seem tate did in the past have a business

01:15:32.560 arrangement with a chain called las vegas games las vegas games is currently under investigation

01:15:39.200 on suspicion of extortion and organized crime involving the romanian mafia i'm guessing tate

01:15:45.520 doesn't want to be too closely associated with that possibly so where so there's two points from that first

01:15:52.480 point is again they're saying look he's not in the community casino business so again there can't be

01:15:56.960 no um money laundering from the casino business um and he's just partaking in slot machines and then

01:16:02.480 the second point is he's trying to say the las vegas games are basically um you know they've committed

01:16:07.600 laundering and fraud but that has nothing to do with taste so what he's trying to make the audience think

01:16:12.320 is guilt by association so because he's associated with them therefore he must be as guilty but that's not

01:16:17.440 how evidence works you need to provide the evidence that he's part took and said laundering before you can

01:16:22.080 accuse someone of that said crime yeah um anyway let's let's carry on it's the money could it be in

01:16:30.080 the uk graham barrow is an anti-money laundering expert who helps banks and the uk government

01:16:36.400 investigate suspected corruption and who hosts the dark money podcast clearly mr tate has exhibited

01:16:43.120 significant wealth which is hard to reconcile with his normal business activities we asked him to

01:16:47.520 examine both andrew and tristan tate's companies in the uk the tates or at least tristan tate has

01:16:53.200 never filed a set of company accounts for any of the companies he has been a director or an owner of

01:16:57.760 it's a red flag in my world it is a warning to most financial institutions that they should be paying

01:17:02.240 close attention if they're doing business with these companies we also showed graham our findings from

01:17:07.440 romania whether you like it or not unfortunately romania is a hub of significant organized criminal

01:17:12.800 activity which involves money laundering having seen the information that you've shown me it is

01:17:17.600 quite hard to differentiate that from other networks i've seen which have ultimately ended up

01:17:21.360 being um shown to be money laundering or other financial criminal networks tate's followers become

01:17:26.880 very touchy when journalists so can you see what's happened here he's built this whole argument

01:17:33.680 guess what it's not as big as you say he might have a few girls he's got slot machines he's not

01:17:40.000 got that much money but then he says guess what he's a money launderer and he's laundering significant

01:17:45.280 amounts of money it doesn't marry up and the second point is the the person who goes to as the expert

01:17:51.600 he argues guess what romania is the hope for money laundering and then therefore that is one of the

01:17:56.560 reasoning for why he's assumed that tate is also involved in that so again zero evidence provided

01:18:03.280 zero content provided and this is his treasure trove of proof that's going to make tate go down

01:18:09.040 horrendous question the scale of his wealth take away tate's money his superpower if you like and

01:18:19.760 you take away his strength hustlers university hustlers university hustlers and i think that's what

01:18:24.720 they're trying to do isn't it university want to learn about houses university there's a bunch of

01:18:28.960 rooms to go into and those rooms have millionaire professors the most likely source of a vast income

01:18:34.400 seems to be his hustlers university an online business school to teach fans how to become rich

01:18:40.800 i'm going to teach you everything from start to finish everything i've ever learned about business

01:18:45.200 i have a hundred business tips i'm going to teach you which will allow you to make your own money

01:18:49.360 instantly the fee is fifty dollars a month and recruits would be taught by so-called multi-millionaire

01:18:55.680 experts tate's students could even earn money by luring in more students to hustlers for which they'd

01:19:02.480 receive a cut of each fee if you think it sounds like pyramid selling you wouldn't be alone but

01:19:13.680 tate says it's not if he had the 100 000 students he claimed so there's two points there first thing

01:19:21.040 he says is he's laws students so is is that what every business does so is amazon when they do advertising

01:19:28.640 lowering people is is a um any type of advertising or any type of affiliate program or anyone when you

01:19:34.320 recommend a friend some form some form some form of lowering no it's not so again can you see how

01:19:40.080 he's framed it to make it sound nefarious when this is normal business activity in terms of it being a

01:19:44.640 pyramid scheme he's made the contention but then not provided any evidence where is the evidence that

01:19:50.720 something like hustlers university which is now called the real world is a pyramid scheme i myself have looked

01:19:56.960 into it and from the information i've got gathered it's an affiliate program and how is an affiliate

01:20:03.360 program where you basically essentially to advertise the cost to others and then you get a cut for

01:20:09.920 recommending a friend how is that a pyramid scheme because a person from these universities uh hustler

01:20:16.160 universities can leave after a month so there's not a pyramid scheme from my research as and what it

01:20:22.480 is akin to is what every company has a refer a friend will give you 150 pound voucher refer a friend

01:20:27.280 will knock off 10 quid a month from your um monthly fee so when you're making a contention you need

01:20:33.200 to provide the evidence which again paul kenyon kenyon has failed to do yeah it's an affiliate network i did

01:20:38.960 a video on this last summer i think the title of the video is how tate became famous or something like that

01:20:44.160 this was this was last august or september it's an affiliate network uh you know he tapped into

01:20:49.600 um kids that wanted to be famous that wanted to be a top g that wanted to learn you know like the

01:20:56.720 inside secrets of copywriting and affiliate marketing and there's a lot of kids out there

01:21:01.040 that do it i mean i spend 10 minutes a day at least going through my email inbox deleting and blocking

01:21:06.320 people that keep sending me emails that want to copyright for me or do like short clips or whatever

01:21:11.200 for me right like there's there's a lot of people out there that do it that's that's what it is

01:21:15.280 it's an affiliate network it's it's definitely not a pyramid scheme you know i can tell you that

01:21:21.120 then he really would be raking it in but hustlers appears not to have filed any company accounts so

01:21:27.280 it's impossible to tell what it's worth but file on four can reveal something new tate and his brother

01:21:33.280 tristan were originally being investigated for trafficking and rape offenses but a source in

01:21:37.920 the prosecutor's office has told me that they're now investigating potential money laundering as well

01:21:43.040 around hustlers university and some of their other businesses this is an important new development

01:21:49.360 and as they look deeper into the tate's finances i've been told that uk law and forgive me if i'm

01:21:57.120 maybe being a little bit thick here but i've watched enough gangster movies to understand that

01:22:01.600 money laundering is something that happens when you try to clean dirty money right like drug money you

01:22:06.080 know something like that for example but if you're running an affiliate network that's invoicing i don't

01:22:11.280 know a million ten million dollars a month you know a bunch of hundred thousand kids that are paying

01:22:16.560 50 bucks a month that's not money laundering that's just billables right it's just recurring revenue

01:22:22.560 yeah i mean yeah it is billable so what you what they would have to try and prove is that they through

01:22:27.760 that program they were also laundering money as per what you said or through that program they weren't

01:22:33.840 paying the you know the taxes or whatever it may be so again that's different though then that's tax evasion

01:22:39.680 that's exactly that's not even money laundering i think it's from what i've seen of this program

01:22:44.240 and from what i've seen seen in terms of the evidence i think it'll be very hard for them to

01:22:47.840 find money laundering but let's see and in terms of just from from your viewers point of view up to

01:22:52.800 now in the court documents there is nothing about money laundering so what this guy is talking about

01:22:56.800 is something that they're looking at in the future or they're looking at now to present to the court next

01:23:01.360 time look one of the things that you do when you get involved in a court case is you is you generally

01:23:08.320 throw as much shit up against the wall and hope some of it sticks that's generally the way that

01:23:13.200 it works so i mean i see the code in a matrix and what they're doing here right now um look that's

01:23:20.640 that's that's par for the course that's what you do when you launch a lawsuit that's that's what

01:23:24.560 happens you know you just start throwing stuff up against the wall very little of it sticks at the

01:23:29.440 end of the day enforcement are now helping the remaining authorities

01:23:37.440 file on four has put all of its findings from tonight's program to the tate brothers through

01:23:42.080 their lawyer but they wouldn't comment and this one final avenue of inquiry you can actually control

01:23:49.440 and own your money how difficult is it to move serious cash no problem with bitcoin

01:23:52.640 tate talks a lot on social media about cryptocurrency in august last year four months before his arrest

01:24:00.960 he told an american podcast this i had cash in a bank and when everything hit the fan the first thing

01:24:05.760 i thought was i don't want cash i want something else give me an asset okay how can i get an asset

01:24:09.440 that the government can't take bitcoin tate does seem to have at least one digital wallet but we can't

01:24:16.240 look inside romanian law enforcement might be able to depending on the kind of digital wallet tate uses

01:24:23.520 but there is legal precedent at least for them to freeze whatever's there it would be ironic wouldn't

01:24:29.760 it tate a man created in cyberspace had his fortune reduced to an endless binary code locked in a virtual

01:24:36.880 wallet that he may never reach in difficult situations i tend to just double down and think

01:24:43.760 right if anyone can get through this it's me you know we can make the best of this we can fix it

01:24:49.280 it's gonna be okay sorry sorry back in the real world though the long-lasting impact of tate's

01:24:56.880 behavior is something sophie says she will never truly recover from sharing her story with file on

01:25:02.240 four brought back some painful memories for her i just buried this so deeply yeah so i realized i just

01:25:09.280 couldn't live like that anymore and and it wasn't normal she since decided to help the romanian

01:25:14.640 authorities with their investigation you can't get away with treating people like this forever i knew

01:25:19.280 it would all come falling down eventually and i'm glad it finally has it's definitely made me more wary

01:25:24.240 when i meet people i don't trust people like i used to it's i know sophie's an alias but like has this

01:25:31.440 woman been named in the court case yet no no she hasn't so paul kenyon claims that this is now the

01:25:38.000 seventh woman so she'll be in addition and again look we've when we looked at the actual information

01:25:44.160 and what she was saying it provided us and we've gone through it consent she agreed it was basically

01:25:50.320 a relationship and she didn't like the relationship and she was able to leave it there's but this envy

01:25:55.920 obviously is there to just garner emotions because it does make it feel sad and sorry but all i can say to

01:26:00.800 the audience is as sad as it makes you feel look at the content as opposed to the emotions

01:26:04.560 it takes me a long time to sort of figure people out and make sure i know the kind of individual

01:26:10.080 i'm dealing with because i know how easy it is for someone to pretend to be completely normal and

01:26:15.680 wonderful so everyone i meet now i expect the worst from them until they can prove different which is

01:26:21.280 unfair you know i shouldn't project all of that onto them and i'm trying to deal with it but yeah it's

01:26:25.760 left me with a lot of difficulties in meeting people and having relationships because i just don't

01:26:31.920 all right so they're just ending off on her emotional trauma yeah uh okay well i guess

01:26:38.800 we'll do some closing thoughts and wrap up so i mean has any of this changed your opinion

01:26:44.800 no no i was i was expecting this i mean this is basically in the modus operandi for the entirety of

01:26:50.400 media isn't it to basically present something in one way when if i was given the exact same content i

01:26:57.040 could present it completely on the other way so it's very biased there wasn't a treasure trove

01:27:03.760 as claimed by kenyan there was literally nothing there if he thinks this is proof that he's going to

01:27:08.720 be convicted then basically his bar for conviction is very low yeah and i mean i tried to make the show

01:27:17.440 as compelling and interesting as possible i mean i even reached out and tried to get some people that

01:27:22.160 have been critics of andrew and tristan tate and um some engaged in the dialogue but they all

01:27:28.400 eventually either declined or just kind of ghosted me so they got scared off or whatever so um you know

01:27:35.040 they're very vocal online when they can hide behind avatars and you know posts and ghosts and all this sort

01:27:40.880 of stuff on social media but i think it would be a lot more compelling if if you know if they're going to

01:27:46.480 hold these two men in prison that that they at least stated you know the reasons why and provided

01:27:52.320 the evidence to at least um you know sway the public opinion because i said because i still think a lot

01:27:57.360 of people are looking at this like it's a wit you know it's a witch hunt this is the matrix attacking

01:28:02.080 them this is unjust and i think for the most part that echoes true still i you know i clearly they

01:28:08.800 they've got a vendetta you know this to me again it looks like a witch hunt this this looks to me like

01:28:14.480 he was the loudest shoutiest you know character out there um that said things that a few people

01:28:20.000 didn't like and saying mean things um you know as they say isn't a crime obviously so you know we'll

01:28:26.400 see how this unfolds man i mean um how do you think that this is going to go at this stage did you have

01:28:31.520 any insight you've been talking a lot of people like you've been doing a lot of podcasts lately

01:28:35.600 yeah yeah yeah i have unfortunately i believe and i agree with you there's hardly any evidence so if

01:28:41.760 the conviction was to occur based on this evidence it would be a gross injustice or misjustice but

01:28:48.400 in terms of what i think is going to happen i actually think that they're going to keep them for

01:28:52.000 the for the entirety of the time and i think they will be convicted because as you said this is agenda

01:28:57.440 driven which you call the matrix but essentially means the deep state or the liberal western leftist

01:29:04.480 ideology or manhating ideology so whatever you want to call it there is an agenda to make sure that

01:29:10.800 these guys are taken out whether it's globally or locally within romania but they're definitely

01:29:15.280 an agenda yeah i think worst case scenarios you may not see them out again for a while um and that's

01:29:23.280 probably the longer they hold them for no reason uh i think the higher the probability of that becoming

01:29:29.680 true becomes a reality so i mean look if you're a guy out there um be careful you know with yourself i

01:29:37.440 don't know what they've done you know what they haven't done there's obviously a lot of speculation

01:29:41.440 out there a lot of it's very unsubstantiated still you know to this point we haven't seen any real

01:29:48.000 evidence we haven't seen any charges um their lawyers from what i understand are being denied access

01:29:53.600 even to their own clients and another thing that i understood um you know to be true and you can

01:29:59.520 confirm this as well please is um they're having hearings where their lawyers are only given an

01:30:06.400 opportunity to review the material for a very short period of time like stacks of documents for only

01:30:12.000 a very short period of time this doesn't seem like justice does it yeah yeah so that's right so

01:30:17.440 basically what happened was before the first hearing they were given the entirety of the documents 45

01:30:22.800 minutes before the hearing and then in the next hearing but only to view but then they took it back

01:30:28.560 and then in next time before the next hearing they were given 17 000 pages of documents to keep

01:30:34.560 but one day before the hearing so they've not been able to analyze the information and then mount a

01:30:38.720 fair defense in terms of the information or content within there they've not allowed for example the

01:30:44.240 cctv evidence which would demonstrate if the women are being forced are being held without their consent

01:30:50.800 whether there's some kind of control that has not been included and also what else has not been

01:30:56.080 included is the whatsapp messages in terms of the long form as opposed yeah the whatsapp messages

01:31:01.600 that i heard like there were some twitter spaces that i hopped into i think i was in one or two

01:31:05.440 of them that you were in as well too i think i saw your name or your avatar but they're like they're out

01:31:10.400 of context you know it's it's one line read here and there and it's like okay well what led up to that

01:31:15.600 and what happened after that and even some of them in the context that they were provided um there was

01:31:21.120 consent you know so it was like it's not even incriminating it's her saying well this is what happened

01:31:26.240 which might be you know construed as bad but i liked it or i consented to it right so it's not

01:31:30.880 wrong if i consent to it right so exactly it's a very bizarre set of circumstances you know there's

01:31:38.080 any any western country gentlemen you're gonna have to be careful with you know you're gonna have

01:31:42.880 to be very careful with how you hold yourself out to the public you're gonna have to be very careful

01:31:46.880 with how you interact with women do not fight fly close to the sun this is this is what can happen

01:31:52.160 well what i would say is what the advice you're giving is correct but what i would say is that we

01:31:58.480 should speak out because that's not acceptable we should not be living in a world where men live in

01:32:03.520 fear where men are basically in a scenario where we live in an extreme feminist world where men male

01:32:11.360 issues are completely ignored and men are considered lesser beings i mean we've got so many examples that

01:32:16.960 look up basically um suicide rates because four times eighty percent of suicides are from by male

01:32:23.600 by men seventy percent of them are by adolescent men has anybody talked about that is there any men's

01:32:29.120 groups talking about this fighting about this no one brings it up it broke the whole rough speed

01:32:34.480 sleepers in terms of homelessness hoping homelessness eighty percent of them are men again is anybody talking

01:32:39.600 about that no nobody is because no one cares about men no one cares about the real issues they're dealing

01:32:44.240 we live in an extreme feminist society and that's all that people care about is female keeping basically

01:32:51.760 putting female on a pedestal and in reality it shouldn't be like that you should be caring about

01:32:56.640 both issues and you just mean you mentioned the rape issue that was a perfect example i i i wouldn't

01:33:03.280 be surprised that most people are shocked to learn that most most rapes occur on men but nobody talks about

01:33:10.080 it because no one cares or for example most people talk about you know for example you know male men

01:33:16.400 abusing people but actually most child abuse occurs by women significant data to suggest that again no

01:33:20.800 one talks about this men are considered or them present as the violent scary men guess what your child

01:33:26.400 is going to sit next to a man who could be abused but actually data suggests it's quite opposite no one

01:33:30.400 talks about it so i think although your advice is right there should be campaigns or there should be

01:33:35.680 scenarios where men are able to are given a voice i look man i completely co-sign what you're saying

01:33:41.440 and i agree 100 percent um where you may be missing something though is that there's a group of guys

01:33:47.440 out there called mras which stands for men's rights activists and for decades now they've been trying

01:33:53.600 trying to be vocal about you know these sorts of issues with uh suicide with divorce rape with how

01:34:00.160 you know family law is hostile towards fathers and men and how they're alienated from their kids and

01:34:04.560 uh how there's two different sets of rules even the male feminist dr warren farrell wrote a book

01:34:10.000 called the myth of male power and he was talking about the differences you know between men and

01:34:13.520 women when it comes to incarceration rates how women get far lighter and softer and shorter jail

01:34:18.560 sentences for the exact same crime um people have been talking about this for decades but nobody wants

01:34:25.040 to hear it it doesn't matter men are men are disposable we've always been disposable men are women

01:34:31.360 are always protected they've always been protected um i think it's a reality of the world that we

01:34:35.920 live in and i guess where i differ from you my friend is i'm more of the um thinking like you know

01:34:42.000 what i see them burning the whole thing down and if that's what they're going to do i'm going to draw

01:34:46.480 a perimeter around the people that are on the inside people that i love and care for and i'll operate

01:34:51.360 you know within that sphere it's not my job to save the world anymore um i i i i truly hope things

01:34:57.520 change but i'm at the point where i've seen enough of people trying to change things and trying to

01:35:02.080 speak for men and try to amplify you know these voices and what about men's suicide rates and all

01:35:06.640 this thing and they just laugh they just laugh at it it's just swept aside oh you know look at all

01:35:12.000 these poor girls over here sort of thing and it's it's it's just it's just a completely upside down

01:35:17.040 world um and i don't know where it's going but it's not looking good for the guys out there let's just

01:35:22.560 say that yeah anyway we'll wrap it up on that note um i want to thank you for joining me you

01:35:28.640 can check out uh my friend uh sulia men on uh twitter i think i i tagged you in the description

01:35:34.720 of the uh youtube video you don't have a youtube channel do you no i mean i've started i'm gonna

01:35:40.000 start producing content on there now but yeah so that youtube channel is the same as my twitter which

01:35:45.040 is at shakes suleyman but i'll be producing content from there from yeah so um find them online

01:35:51.760 because there's lots of podcast interviews with him out there he's active on twitter i think you're

01:35:55.360 doing great work and i wish all the best with amplifying this message and you know continuing

01:35:59.600 the podcast tour i know you're on later on today uh with pearly and destiny so that should be an

01:36:04.400 interesting conversation he doesn't seem to like andrew too much he was invited on but he went silent

01:36:10.400 on me by the way um have fun with that and uh we'll catch up with you soon hang out just for a

01:36:15.600 second just for a second just so we can talk offline thanks

Playing to Win - February 26, 2023

079 - The Matrix v Andrew Tate w⧸ Sulaiman Ahmed

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