Playing to Win - PTW_105_F＊uk Boy Exposes The Truth About Woman

00:00:00.000 For the last 200,000 years, groups of men have banded together as a means of survival and for

00:00:07.860 the purpose of moving civilization forward. Men built great cities, advanced modern technology,

00:00:14.480 and created economic systems that still prevail today. Unfortunately, those advancements in

00:00:20.120 economic stability have created widespread levels of comfort that even the most wealthy kings in

00:00:25.400 history didn't enjoy. With no great purpose or mission, most men today have accepted this comfort

00:00:31.360 and in turn have become soft, weak, feminized versions of their past ancestors. These men are

00:00:37.800 content for spending their days at jobs they dislike, spending time with people they can hardly

00:00:42.440 tolerate, and the most fulfilling thing in their lives is watching their favorite sports teams

00:00:46.800 are getting lost in their favorite video game. The men of the Unplugged Brotherhood demand more

00:00:53.440 from themselves, and more importantly, from each other. Through mentally and physically challenging

00:00:58.340 in-person retreats and events, these men have discovered that growth only happens when you

00:01:03.440 are willing to show up, force yourself out of your comfort zone, and above all, do the work.

00:01:09.960 Don't waste another day squandering your potential to be the man you were meant to be.

00:01:15.300 Reject comfort, let go of people that are holding you back, and seize the opportunity to join a true

00:01:20.860 brotherhood that will challenge you to become the best version of yourself.

00:01:42.220 All right, gentlemen, what's going on? Welcome to Playing to Win episode 105. I've got an excellent

00:01:49.260 guest today that I think you're going to love. You probably never heard of him unless you're on

00:01:52.260 Twitter, and you follow me over there and see who I retweet or endorse from time to time, but

00:01:57.200 I came across this character, Jay, here. I don't know who introduced me to you. I really can't

00:02:05.240 remember. I don't know, maybe you do, but I came across your stuff. You kind of ran from some trouble

00:02:11.280 in Asia. I want you to tell that story, because that was like some social media posts that forced

00:02:15.200 you to leave, and then you kind of had to get into America, become a citizen, sort of stuff like

00:02:19.480 that. You went through the Darien Gap or something? I saw your post at one point.

00:02:23.580 Oh, not that dramatic. Basically, about 10 years ago, I was a quote-unquote influencer back in my

00:02:30.000 home country. I posted some stuff about religion, and I came from a Muslim country, Malaysia. I got into

00:02:38.460 a lot of trouble back then. They put me in jail and stuff. They want to put me in jail for many years,

00:02:42.460 so I decided, you know what? Fuck that. I want to live that life, and so I flew all the way to

00:02:48.860 Mexico and then went all the way to... Who was the post that you made that offended them so badly that

00:02:52.500 was going to put you in jail? It was just some religious stuff, you know? It was... If you really

00:02:58.980 wanted to know the specifics, it was the Muslim month of fasting, and I was sort of ridiculing the

00:03:04.960 whole fasting thing. Got it. And then they didn't like that. Okay. So basically, they were trying to put me

00:03:11.800 in jail for many years, so I just decided, you know what? Fuck this. I'm going to run to America,

00:03:15.720 and I'm going to seek for asylum on the border with California. And yeah, apparently, they took

00:03:24.080 me in, and that's been... You walked across the border? Yeah. I walked to the border, and I sort of

00:03:30.600 begged for asylum. My government is sort of picking on me. Can you help me out? But those were very

00:03:38.640 different days, because those were the Obama years. Yeah. So, you know, border guard's a lot

00:03:43.320 more friendlier back then. Okay. Right now, not so much. And you got your citizenship shortly after

00:03:48.420 that, right? I got my citizenship earlier this year. Okay. And you worked in... I'm going to use the

00:03:55.060 word corn. I mean, you obviously know what I'm talking about, but you know, we talked before we

00:03:57.840 went live to sort of water down this for the YouTube algorithms a little bit, but you were involved in

00:04:01.660 corn for a little bit. What was that part of your career like? You know, because I want to sort of

00:04:06.580 like build up to this stuff that you're doing right now, because you're like a non-monogamous

00:04:10.240 like dating sort of F-boy today. So basically, when I first came to LA, I did whatever jobs I can. And

00:04:19.280 one of the jobs that I did over and over again was to be an extra in the film productions,

00:04:24.800 regular film productions. So they paid about 100, 150 odd per day just to show up and be an extra,

00:04:32.380 you know, but it takes like 10, 12 hours a day. I did that for a while. You know, I did whatever I

00:04:37.080 could survive back then. And then suddenly someone told me that, you know what? Why don't you talk to

00:04:44.480 this person? Maybe, you know, you can do something that pays a little more. And it turns out it's

00:04:49.040 corn. And they told me to send some photos. I did. And I did my first scene in 2015. That's quite a

00:04:59.000 walk back. But I didn't really pursue it fully until like, I would say 2019, 2020. That's when I

00:05:05.700 start filming pretty often. Yeah. And you're an entrepreneur. Sorry, you're an entrepreneur now you

00:05:11.340 run, was it an e-commerce business or some kind of online business? Yes. In fact, the URL is right

00:05:15.740 there. I mean, that's my platform. So. All right. Well, you're kind of famous on Twitter. Like

00:05:22.000 this guy, Andrew here, obviously knows you. He's his best Twitter account in the game.

00:05:25.800 I mean, you're kind of famous on the X platform for, I think the thing that, that, that caught

00:05:32.320 my attention at first was that you basically stated that you don't date, like you don't

00:05:36.140 do dates anymore. It's, it's either come over to my place on the first meeting or I'm not

00:05:41.420 wasting my time. If I may, I'm just going to show the screen caps because you got the receipts

00:05:47.680 up over there. Let me just hang on a second. My studio is not working properly here. There

00:05:53.180 we go. Um, kind of walk me through what I'll, what I'll happen here. Cause I mean, this is

00:05:58.560 what really gets most people's attention. So I'll just read this out and then maybe, you

00:06:03.100 know, you can add a little bit of commentary insight to it, but it says Addy, uh, then

00:06:06.880 Abrax is black T something or that it says, Hey Addy. Um, I guess this is Jay here. So where

00:06:12.780 do you live? Uh, down to meet up tonight. She says, I'm in Gardenia. Where are you located?

00:06:17.940 You go on to say, all right, I'm downtown LA. Uh, don't think we're that far apart. You

00:06:22.500 should come by to my place and have some drinks and watch a movie together. Chit chat, get

00:06:26.160 to know one another, cuddle, et cetera. How 7 PM tonight sound very non-threatening, obviously

00:06:30.940 like a very suave sort of way to open it up. She goes, Nope. 20 ish minutes. Sounds good.

00:06:36.060 So no protest for your offer to come over. This is a first date obviously, right? Yes. Never

00:06:40.780 met her. Yeah. And then, and then you continue on. All right. Do you need a ride or do you drive?

00:06:45.080 So you're taking care of the, um, you know, facilitating her getting to your place, you

00:06:49.680 know, you're there offering to pick her up or send an Uber or something. She goes, I

00:06:53.140 drive. Okay, cool. I'm sure, uh, we'll enjoy our time together. And then you go on to say,

00:06:59.080 yeah, I'm a lifeguard. Sounds good. You too. Uh, oh, this is somebody else. Okay. So this

00:07:03.280 is another somebody else. So, Hey Danielle, uh, you feel good to meet up after rehearsal tonight.

00:07:09.460 Uh, you should come by my place, have some drinks, watch a movie together, chit chat, cuddle,

00:07:13.360 et cetera, exact same line. It's almost like a copy paste strategy that you're using.

00:07:16.940 Yeah. Or if you're more comfortable with me going over to yours, I can do that too. Let

00:07:20.700 me know. Uh, Hey, yeah, I'd love to, your place is good. Just send me an address. I'll

00:07:25.540 come over straight after rehearsal. Cool. Look forward to that. Um, the bottom part of that's

00:07:30.420 redacted. I'm assuming that's your address or something like that. It is. Um, I live alone

00:07:34.980 in a one bedroom apartment. Let me know, uh, when you're leaving so I can plan my time better.

00:07:39.440 See you tonight, Danielle. Uh, I got another chick here, Dana, uh, where to use one of

00:07:47.480 those chicks, eh? Uh, not too far downtown LA. I was heading out, uh, to get, to get good.

00:07:53.140 So I'm not really set on going to SM. What's SM? Uh, is that a part of no idea? Santa Monica,

00:08:00.340 Santa Monica. Okay. Uh, so not really set. I'm going to Santa Monica tonight. Uh, you should

00:08:04.720 drop by my place for some drinks, watch a movie together, chit chat, kick back, cuddle,

00:08:07.820 et cetera. How's APM exact same line. Good. See you at eight. No protesting from her whatsoever.

00:08:13.020 Do you drive or should I get you an Uber? I'll Uber. Okay. My address. Right. We got another

00:08:17.680 one here. Yvette. Hey, Yvette Alvin here. So Alvin's your pen name. That's, that's my other

00:08:23.900 name. Oh shit. I didn't, I didn't blur that out. Holy shit. Okay. Nevermind. Um, so, so where

00:08:29.680 do you live? Uh, down to meet up tonight. Hey there, tonight's a little short notice for

00:08:33.760 me, but tomorrow night I'm free. I live in Sherman Oaks. Well, cool. I live in downtown LA.

00:08:38.720 You should come over, have some drinks, watch a movie together, chit chat, cuddle, et cetera.

00:08:42.480 How's 7 PM sound? Yeah, that sounds great. Send me your address. Drops the address. I'll text you

00:08:46.840 tomorrow the day, blah, blah, blah. So like very clearly obvious now, how, how successful has this

00:08:53.140 strategy been for you when it comes to getting chicks to come over on the first date? Cause you

00:08:57.180 don't do dates anymore. Um, very successful, but there's a caveat. So these numbers, I don't simply

00:09:05.020 take numbers, you know, guys, uh, try to maximize the, uh, the number of numbers they have, but to me,

00:09:12.120 not all numbers are created equal. So unless a girl is high interest in me and a girl has indicated that

00:09:19.000 she would like to spend some time with me, um, I wouldn't take her number. So because I only want

00:09:25.480 high quality numbers in my pipeline, I don't want low quality numbers clogging up my, my, my text,

00:09:31.200 my, my texting app. Um, which is why they're all genuine burning desire. And I think I've seen you

00:09:36.560 as well too. Right. Genuine burning desire. There you go. Um, but obviously if you haven't even met

00:09:43.380 these girls, then I mean, um, they're really still trying to fill you out, but even then you can still

00:09:48.940 tell if they have high interest or low interest in you, right? They have low interest in me. I try not to

00:09:53.920 take the number because to me, I'm not about maximizing numbers. I'm about maximizing lays.

00:09:59.620 So what are strong indicator of interest versus the indifferent checks? Like what's the difference

00:10:05.800 between those two? If you can spell it out for viewers. Well, you can kind of tell if, uh, first

00:10:11.000 of all, it's responsiveness. Like if you, first of all, I got all these numbers from the apps,

00:10:15.000 right. Specifically Tinder. Um, how, how, how quickly they respond to you. Um, how much,

00:10:23.040 uh, how many words they use when they text you, um, uh, whether they open or you open that matters.

00:10:31.340 Um, and most importantly, I think if your profile is crafted in a certain way, it tells a certain

00:10:39.660 story and they still swipe, right. Then they're a high quality lead. If you catch my drift, because

00:10:47.560 a lot of guys profiles, it's, they put whatever photos they have in their phones, they write

00:10:53.140 whatever garbage comes to mind in, in their profile. So a lot of these leads are just unqualified.

00:11:00.780 My profile is very deliberate. Like it is crafted in a very specific way. Every single photo is a,

00:11:07.420 is, is a thirst quote unquote thirst trap. My profile is full of like innuendo. So a lot of girls

00:11:15.260 will be scared off and swipe left and that's fine. But the 20 or 30% or however many percent,

00:11:21.580 it might be 5%. I don't know. The other girls will swipe right. I know that there's a good chance

00:11:26.940 that they want to do something physical with me. What's the, um, what's the bio say? Like,

00:11:33.020 what does the profile bio say? My bio I have, I have something that is, it's like a very short

00:11:39.580 paragraph, but it's, it reads, it reads off like literatica. So it's like, you know, I'm going to

00:11:45.660 caress you. I'm going to hold your back and something. And then you tremble, you'll have like

00:11:50.300 tingling sensation down your toes. I had a whole paragraph. Yeah. Yeah. Like Christian Grey sort of

00:11:55.900 stuff, but, uh, you know, it passes the Tinder algorithm and it doesn't get, you gotta craft it

00:12:02.540 in a more, um, I don't want to say family friendly, but you know, well, acceptable way.

00:12:08.860 Yeah. You dropped the hint, but you make it clear that you're not looking for marriage. You're

00:12:12.620 obviously looking for money. Got it. Absolutely. And the vast majority of chicks will probably swipe

00:12:17.420 left on you and that's fine as long as not all of them swipe left. Okay. So, um,

00:12:23.420 um, at what point did you decide to abandon the like conventional let's go out for a coffee and

00:12:29.740 meet? Like, can you tell us the story behind that? Cause it's, cause it's very unusual for

00:12:33.820 guys nowadays to use a strategy and have success with it. Like to just get right to the point of

00:12:39.420 I'm here for intimacy and that's it. Right. So, so I'm slightly older. I'm like, I'm 36. Right. So

00:12:47.260 I started using dating apps in my mid twenties back then. And, and back then I was doing the whole

00:12:52.620 traditional dating thing. Um, and I, I did it to pretty good success. Like, which means that I took

00:12:58.460 the girls out. I even took them out to dinner. That's fine. There was this, um, there was this

00:13:02.540 English pub place that was like five minutes from my place. So I took them out there and, um,

00:13:08.460 and, and it was okay. And I would say maybe 60, 70% of them went home with me and that was fine.

00:13:16.700 And even the 30 or 40% who didn't go home with me, I could tell that they tried their best. They

00:13:22.540 tried their best to, to get into it. They just didn't feel it. But then I think back in 2015,

00:13:28.620 I met this Asian chick and she was the one who suggested that we should go and get sushi.

00:13:35.020 And obviously right now it would be a red flag to me. If a girl suggested the place or the restaurant

00:13:39.820 or the bar, that was, it's a huge red flag, but I didn't know it back then. That was like 10 years ago.

00:13:44.540 Um, she just couldn't make it clearer that she was just there for food. You know,

00:13:49.420 like I tried to make conversation, one word responses. Um, she showed contempt. I tried to

00:13:54.540 sit next to her in the restaurant. She was like, why don't you just go sit opposite me? Don't be so

00:13:59.260 close to me. I was like, you know, that was a bit of a curve ball to me back then. And then after the

00:14:05.020 date, obviously I do my usual thing, which is like, do you want to spend some time back home? Because

00:14:09.420 it's, it's my practice. I make it a habit to ask them to go home with me regardless of how the date went.

00:14:14.060 So, uh, she, obviously she gave me the whole speech. Oh, I gotta go back early. I gotta sleep

00:14:18.940 early. I have work the next day. Um, and that was that. And I went home. I did the whole, um,

00:14:26.780 over analyzing thing. I thought, okay, did I talk too much? Um, did I try to be physical too quickly?

00:14:33.420 Did I sit next to her too soon? Or was I not funny enough? Was my clothes wrong? Did I order the wrong

00:14:39.340 thing in the restaurant for her? Uh, blah, blah, blah. And, and I was very hard on myself. Um,

00:14:45.420 but after a few days, I just, it just hit me that, you know what, hold it, hold on a second. Like

00:14:51.500 she just wanted a free meal and it never hit me before because back in 2015, a foodie call never

00:14:59.260 even heard the term. It wasn't even a thing back then, but it, it affected me so, so, so deeply that,

00:15:06.460 um, I went on the internet. I went on Reddit. Uh, back then there was this sub called r slash

00:15:11.260 seduction. I'm not sure if it's still there. Um, and then I came across this post that this guy

00:15:16.060 was making wild claims. Like, oh, I slept with like, um, you know, I slept with like, uh, 30 girls in the

00:15:22.940 last like three months or something like that. I was like, give me a break. And I was like, I clicked

00:15:27.180 it and I was like, okay, here's what you do first. You never, ever take them out on a date.

00:15:32.620 I was like, okay, that's bold. Second, you asked him to come over right away.

00:15:38.300 Very, very bold. And then you do this, this, this, and that. When she comes over, you put a whole bunch

00:15:43.100 of stuff on the chairs in your house so that she has no choice, but to sit on the bed, blah, blah, blah.

00:15:46.860 It was this whole blueprint. I was like, huh? Hmm. I was just learning. Uh, I was,

00:15:52.380 I was having my mind open at the time, but, um, it was all very revolutionary to me. And that was

00:15:59.500 back in 2015. And you look at the comments, everyone was so fucking angry. Everyone's like,

00:16:03.580 you fucking liar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, if, if you did that, I'm the king of England,

00:16:08.300 you know, nobody believed him, but I, I, I saw it and I was like, he was responding too. So I was like,

00:16:15.580 no way. I'm like, maybe I should try this out. And so I did.

00:16:22.860 Um, cause I had enough volume back then when you have enough volume, when you have enough matches

00:16:26.700 in, in your, um, your Tinder, you're not that scared. You don't have that scarcity mentality

00:16:32.540 because LA is a big city. Yeah. So you have this endless options. And if every day, you know that

00:16:38.460 you're going to get like five or 10 new matches, you don't worry. So I was like, okay, what if I use

00:16:44.860 half of these chicks for an experiment and ask them to come over right away? And then the other half,

00:16:49.820 half, I just use my, my usual game. And I did that. And a lot of them actually just came right over.

00:16:57.020 So after that, I was like, holy shit, this fucking works. This fucking works. I can just skip the whole

00:17:01.740 fucking dinner or drinks thing. And these girls will come over. And I did, after that, I just

00:17:09.020 got rid of the whole dating thing. Cause it made me realize that, you know what they would have come

00:17:13.100 over anyway, the ones who said yes. So why am I indulging in the whole, um, you know, formality

00:17:21.020 of taking them out to a date because they like me, I like them. What's the problem? Why, why do we have

00:17:25.740 to pretend to get to know each other over food when we just really want to get down to it?

00:17:30.860 Yeah. It's incredible that we're, that we're at this point now, because this is, um, this is a

00:17:35.260 relatively new revelation. Like even in my first book, when I wrote it, like my recommendation

00:17:40.380 was, was still at that time. Um, you know, coffee date one or sniff tests, you know,

00:17:46.220 see what they're all about escalate a little bit. Um, and then, you know, if you want to get into the

00:17:50.860 intimacy, like, you know, you can do that round two or something like that. Um, but this strategy,

00:17:56.540 like you've posted the, you know, you've posted the receipts I've seen you post in your timeline or

00:18:01.100 share, uh, screens of some of your other followers that have done the exact same thing.

00:18:06.380 Yes. Um, or, or versions of that, but it always seems to be like the

00:18:10.060 same sort of line that pops up. What is it again? Uh, you should come by my place,

00:18:14.220 have some drinks, watch a movie together. It works. I can't tell why, but it works.

00:18:18.140 So, so how far through drinks, watch a movie together, chit chat, get to know one another,

00:18:24.220 cuddle, et cetera. Like at what point do you usually get to the bank?

00:18:28.300 Okay. So it's, it's very, you know, from a girl's perspective, it's like, oh, this guy is so smooth.

00:18:34.860 You know, everything was just right. We had great chemistry, blah, blah, blah. But for my end,

00:18:39.340 from my perspective, it's actually planned down to like every single detail.

00:18:43.900 So when they first arrive, I always go in for a hug, break the touch barrier right away. Um,

00:18:48.620 I turn off all the lights in my apartment and then I just turn on a movie on Netflix.

00:18:54.460 Uh, I tell them where to sit, which is next to me on the couch. And you know, the drinks thing is

00:19:00.780 really, at first I took it seriously. So I stocked up my, my apartment with like alcohol, you know,

00:19:06.620 liquor, wine, beer, whatever it is that a chick might want to drink. And then I realized that

00:19:10.860 most of them don't really want to drink. Like it's really just a figure of speech. So anyway,

00:19:15.820 I turn on a movie. I usually pick a movie that's very, um, popular, a movie that everyone has seen.

00:19:22.300 So back in my day, I usually played mean girls because every chick has seen mean girls. I have

00:19:26.140 seen mean girls millions of times because of the same, you know, I've been playing the same movie over

00:19:30.460 and over again for these chicks. Um, okay. And this is the part where, where it might be a little

00:19:35.100 funny because so get this, I'm only meeting these chicks for the first time. Right. So, um,

00:19:44.540 a lot of times I'm pretty nervous myself. So what I usually do is I pop a Viagra right before they

00:19:53.020 arrive. And then that thing takes a little time to react in my body. And, uh, while that does its

00:20:00.380 job, I just sit like this with, with my arm across her. And, uh, we just talk because we're, the,

00:20:05.820 the reason I play a movie that everybody has seen is because I don't want her to be paying attention

00:20:09.420 to the movie. That's like, no, that's like, hell no. Like I want to, yeah, it's just white noise.

00:20:14.460 Exactly. So I want her to be, uh, talking to me. Um, I turn off all the lights because,

00:20:18.860 you know, um, it, it works better. You know, girls tend to be, they, they resist more when it's,

00:20:25.100 there's a light, you know, shining on them, I guess they feel like they're in the spotlight.

00:20:29.660 Um, so I would say about after 30, 40 minutes of chit chat, then I start, uh, I just, because my

00:20:38.220 hands are already here. So I just, just turn her face over to me and then I'll just say, come here,

00:20:43.580 kiss me. And then I'll just go in for the kiss. And then it, it just goes from there because these

00:20:48.700 chicks know, uh, what they're there for. So there's usually very little resistance.

00:20:54.540 What's your close rate with the strategy? Like, do you ever get rejected? They ever walk out?

00:20:58.940 Like, what's the, um, what's the storyline with that for you? You must have some stories with that.

00:21:04.140 Good question. Good question. You know, like if, uh, you know, anyone who has been following me on

00:21:09.020 X for a while knows that I'm like very anti public date because the rate of closing them is so low

00:21:15.820 because, you know, a lot of girls go out there for free food, free entertainment, free validation,

00:21:19.820 free attention. Um, and they think that if the girl comes over right away, it's like a surefire

00:21:25.980 thing. And I'm here to tell you after hundreds doing this hundreds of times, it is not a guarantee.

00:21:33.180 I would say the close rates about, it's pretty high. It's pretty high. Uh, I would say about 70,

00:21:37.980 80%, but some girls legit come here. They freeze up. Maybe they're not ready to go ahead with it.

00:21:45.020 Uh, some of them act, maybe have a change in energy. Maybe they, I don't know, but maybe they

00:21:51.340 feel a bit catfished. Not sure. Um, some of them legit come over with like, um, innocent, uh, ideas.

00:22:00.380 Like this chick came over and she was a college chick and she was like, Oh, I thought I was really

00:22:04.780 just going to do my homework. Cause you said, come over and do my homework. Like, I'm like,

00:22:09.020 Oh my God, get real, man. You can't be that, that freaking dumb. Like that's no way.

00:22:13.340 But, but she's legit was just trying to do her homework. So I was like, all right,

00:22:17.020 do your homework and then, you know, get out of here, whatever, you know, it happens.

00:22:21.260 So my, my principle is that even for the girls to come over right away, there is a drop-off,

00:22:26.860 like it's not a hundred percent guarantee. So I just don't understand why guys insist on doing

00:22:31.660 things the hard way, meeting them outside. And then the drop-off is like 80, 90%, you know?

00:22:36.860 Yeah. What age range usually data when it comes to inviting them over?

00:22:43.020 Right. So back then I, I set my profile to 18 to 29 and the vast majority of the girls who came over

00:22:52.860 were like, okay, the youngest was 18, obviously. Um, I had some odd ones, like some odd ones in their

00:23:00.540 40s and 50s, but, but mostly they're in their early twenties. So my theory is that girls really

00:23:07.420 want to get the wild stuff out of the way in their early twenties. Yeah. And then they focus

00:23:14.060 on the serious stuff and they admit to late twenties. So most of them, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,

00:23:21.420 you've been very vocal, um, and anti marriage. Um, are you, are you anti inviting the government in

00:23:29.020 your house? Are you anti living with a woman? Are you anti, like what part of, of, of marriage is

00:23:34.300 it that repulses you so badly? Oh, I'm empty everything that you mentioned. Yeah. The government

00:23:40.700 thing, the cohabitation thing. Um, the government thing is obvious because we don't want, you'd

00:23:46.220 think it would be obvious, but for a lot of guys, it still isn't. I mean, I just don't get it. I mean,

00:23:50.780 like when I was 18, 19 years old, I thought it was a crazy idea. Like, why would you sign a contract

00:23:55.580 with the state? I know it's the norm, but you know, that doesn't mean you have to do it. And

00:23:59.660 then I looked deeper and deeper into it in my early twenties about how guys were like getting

00:24:03.900 absolutely killed in the courts and the courts didn't help them, but they helped the women.

00:24:07.980 And I was like, so why would you keep doing this? Like you, you know, if a girl likes you,

00:24:13.180 you wouldn't need a piece of paper to bind you together. Um, I I've never understood it. I've,

00:24:19.180 I've said this over and over again on my ex. And there are still like so many guys who are like in

00:24:23.740 denial who are, who are like fighting me on this. So that's the first thing. I don't want the

00:24:28.300 government deciding how I run my finances. That's one thing. The second thing is the whole, the whole

00:24:34.060 cohabitation thing. So even if without the government, I still don't want to live and share

00:24:39.580 my living space with a woman because, um, you, you lose a lot of privacy. Uh, she runs through your

00:24:44.460 stuff all the time. That's all what all women do. Um, what's that? Have you ever lived with a chick

00:24:51.580 before I have, uh, only once, only once for eight months and I lasted eight months and that was a

00:24:58.460 miracle and I will never ever do it again. Sorry, man. I didn't mean to interrupt you,

00:25:03.180 but you're going through a list of like, you know, she invades your privacy. You don't like,

00:25:06.540 yes. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, she wants to know where, where you're going. Uh, but that's, that's the

00:25:12.940 thing you, you live with a move, a woman. You, you feel that you're becoming less and less masculine

00:25:17.740 over time. There's no way because she has 24, uh, 24, seven access to you. You can act hard and

00:25:23.580 macho and, and hold frame all you want. But if you compare yourself now to two years later,

00:25:31.100 after living with a woman, there will be a significant change and not a good change.

00:25:35.900 You don't want that. Yeah. There, I mean, there's not a lot of evidence that I've seen that women

00:25:41.820 behave. I mean, they don't behave better. They don't behave the same. They almost always behave

00:25:48.060 worse. Once you move them in almost. Um, and most guys get punished over the long haul for

00:25:54.860 giving them what they want. Like I've, I mean, like one of the things that I've learned over the

00:25:58.540 last couple of years is that, um, a lot of the times, you know, women want you to do something for

00:26:04.060 them, like, you know, move in or they want you to stop doing things for them. And, you know, we can talk

00:26:07.580 about the non monogamy part of your life as well, too. Like, uh, like not banging other checks,

00:26:12.940 you know, for example. Um, and a lot of the times I've found that when you give them what they want,

00:26:19.340 or you stop doing what they want you to stop doing, they actually punish you for it. You don't

00:26:23.580 get the net reward. So it's actually better to do what you're going to do anyway.

00:26:27.740 Absolutely. Uh, the thing about giving into chicks is that you think it would make them happy,

00:26:33.340 but nothing makes them happy. So why would you even try?

00:26:35.980 Yeah. There's an old joke about that with like Adam and Eve. It's like, you know,

00:26:40.540 God gave, you know, Adam, Eve and a beautiful garden and endless food and, you know, life and

00:26:45.500 all this sort of stuff. And Eve was just like, yeah, it's still not good enough.

00:26:48.540 Yeah, exactly. Yep. And, uh, don't try. And, and I think as a man, um, we have to have certain

00:26:55.580 heart lines that in our minds that we wouldn't want to cross no matter which chick it is. And no

00:27:00.460 matter what she says or no matter how she threatens us or issues us an out, an automaton.

00:27:05.980 So for example, if your heart line is, you don't want the government coming into your, uh, bedroom,

00:27:11.020 your house. Um, and she says, marry me or I'll walk. You have to let her walk. You can't just say,

00:27:18.140 all right, I'll make an exception this time. I mean, like, that's, that's like, what's the point of

00:27:23.260 having the rule then. Right. Have you, have you had anybody successfully challenge you on these

00:27:28.700 beliefs or, and you've updated them, you know, last couple of years or something like that said,

00:27:33.500 yeah, you know, maybe that angle is a better way to go. Um, marriage. No, because I know marriage,

00:27:40.060 the truth is on my side. Like, you know, a lot of these track con guys come, come in and say,

00:27:45.100 oh, with marriage, you get children with marriage, you get family, you get companionship,

00:27:49.420 but that's not, I mean, you can have kids without marriage.

00:27:51.580 You can have kids. Oh, well, first of all, I, I would say that's not exactly true for

00:27:55.820 most men because for most men, the price of companionship and children is marriage because

00:28:01.180 no chick is going to just shack up with them without marriage. It depends on the guy. It

00:28:05.260 really depends on that too. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but, but it is possible to have companionship,

00:28:11.340 to have children, to have family without marriage. That's, that's one thing. The second thing I always

00:28:16.140 say is that you, you shouldn't let a woman gatekeep, you know, her affections and intimacy.

00:28:21.580 For you behind the marriage paywall. If she's actually doing that and she says,

00:28:26.940 and she says that, you know, um, your financial like investment in me in a very legal sense

00:28:35.420 is the prerequisite for me to even be nice to you. Then I mean, like, what does that say about her?

00:28:40.860 Like she's not sincere. She doesn't like you basically. I keep trying to tell guys this,

00:28:47.500 but, uh, they disagree. You know, I guess marriage is just very embedded in our culture.

00:28:52.860 It's very, um, normalized. It's something that your friends and family talk about all the time.

00:28:58.700 Oh, when are you getting married? You know, when are you getting hitched? Um, so a lot of guys are

00:29:03.740 not strong enough to, to deviate from the norm. So they try to justify it. What's that?

00:29:09.980 How old were you when you figured that all out?

00:29:12.060 So, so, so I guess I was a little lucky because when I was in high school, I was actually actively

00:29:18.380 dating. I had like, uh, a few chicks like liking me, like I had a girlfriend. And then when I had

00:29:23.340 a girlfriend, I had another chick liking me as well. And then the other chick wanted me to leave,

00:29:26.860 leave my girlfriend for her. I didn't do that, but I sort of like, I don't want to use the word

00:29:31.660 cheated, but like, you know, I saw her behind my girlfriend's back and all that. So I was like,

00:29:35.900 from a young age, I had this idea that we all have options. So why do I have to sign a contract

00:29:42.380 that says that I'm devoted to this chick, um, for the rest of my life? It makes no sense.

00:29:46.860 And as I grew older and older, I was like, okay, I had the same options as I did in high school.

00:29:51.580 It never occurred to me that marriage would be logical. So it has always perplexed me, my,

00:29:56.700 my entire adult life, basically never made sense. And then I looked into the marriage

00:30:01.180 laws and I was like, okay, hell no. Now it's like, uh, at first it was like, uh, probably not after

00:30:06.220 that it was like, uh, over my dead body, never in my life. Yeah. Yeah. Um, one of the things you

00:30:12.700 often talk about is non-monogamy. There's, there's different, you know, there seems to be different

00:30:18.220 ways that I've seen a lot of guys structure this. Like I've seen guys with a harem with multiple

00:30:24.060 women. Uh, was it Casey Jones that introduced us?

00:30:29.100 I, I'm not sure.

00:30:30.540 No, you don't recognize. Okay. Um, so there's a guy, um, you know, Casey Jones, who's unfortunately,

00:30:37.180 you know, disappeared off of Twitter. I'm not sure what's happening. I know he had some legal issues.

00:30:41.820 Um, you know, there's guys like the Tate brothers that have women that, um, that have their kids and

00:30:47.660 they don't live with them and they basically spend the night from time to time and they do what they

00:30:52.460 want on the side when they want sort of thing. There's guys that will make a commitment to a woman,

00:30:57.660 like give her commitment, but not a hundred percent sexual exclusivity. Um, there's guys

00:31:03.020 that are just completely open and just bang everything. I just tell them that what's your,

00:31:06.220 what's your model for non-monogamy and why did you select that model?

00:31:11.260 So I haven't been monogamous since, since literally high school. And even back in high school,

00:31:17.980 in college, I was, I was cheating on my girlfriend. So, um, I've never been monogamous. That's one thing.

00:31:23.420 Um, most of the time I've been single, I think hooking up is a very good way of being non-monogamous.

00:31:30.220 So if you get good at the apps, you get good at cold approach, whatever it is, that's perfect model.

00:31:35.580 Um, but, but sometimes with, with hookups, the problem is that it's very time consuming. It

00:31:40.060 really doesn't matter how good you are, how efficient you are. I became very efficient. I could get a match

00:31:46.620 and I could close her. I can convince her to come over within like 30 minutes of time. And when she

00:31:52.220 comes over, I take maybe an hour, an hour and a half to, to get rid of her. Um, but even then it's

00:31:59.100 very time consuming. You have to go to the gym, you have to constantly swipe. Um, so usually at some

00:32:05.260 point you will, you will want some kind of stability in the form of a girlfriend, quote unquote.

00:32:11.660 Right. Um, there's many ways that there are many ways that guys can do it. Um, if you want,

00:32:18.060 and if you are able to swing it, ideally the best way is to get, uh, have a dude threesomes all the

00:32:24.940 time. Um, but that obviously requires her to be by, and she also has to want to share you out. And she

00:32:33.580 also has to see you as sort of like a buffer in, on the SMB scale in order to allow that. Um,

00:32:41.980 other guys do like a open relationship, meaning that you can do whatever you want. I can do whatever

00:32:47.580 I want. I don't think that's a good model. Um, let me just stop you there for a sec,

00:32:51.980 because I think I saw you at one point say, um, why would you care if she bangs somebody else?

00:32:58.620 Was that you did say that? And I caught a lot of flack for that. Okay. So you change your mind

00:33:05.420 on that then? No, no, no, no, no, no, um, um, no, no, no, whatever works for you works. Um,

00:33:12.700 some guys really don't care. Okay. So some guys are like hardcore mate garters, right? Like,

00:33:18.940 oh, you can't see this guy. He can't go on a girl's trip. You know, you can't go to the club,

00:33:23.340 whatever. Um, there are guys like me who are like, you know, if I had a say in it,

00:33:29.820 I would say you can't do all that stuff. But then I also realized that I can't do anything.

00:33:34.700 I really can't stop you. I can't surveil over her 24 seven. I, I, you know, I don't have a GPS

00:33:42.060 tracker on her all the time. So it's a mate guarding part that you take an issue with.

00:33:46.140 Yes. Yes. No, it's not because I don't think mate guarding is useful or important,

00:33:50.780 but I just don't see how it can practically work in real life. I mean, you have a life,

00:33:56.780 you have work, you have, you know, your own family, you have other things to worry about.

00:34:01.580 And, um, what are you going to do anyway? You're not going to run through a phone all the time.

00:34:06.460 You're not going to, uh, you know, tracker on GPS tracker and all that. And so at the end of the day,

00:34:12.540 when you say that you're monogamous with your wife, it's really based on an honor system. It's just

00:34:18.700 based on it's based on faith, right? You have no idea of verifying that she's actually, um,

00:34:24.780 loyal quote unquote. So no, I'm just, I don't want to sound too black pill on this, but the truth is

00:34:31.740 you can't, you can't stop her from doing whatever she wants because she has agency and you don't have

00:34:38.140 eyes on her 24 seven. That's basically my point. I find that women, once they've sort of latched

00:34:45.340 their trailer to the best guy that they can get for the most part, most other guys become invisible

00:34:50.700 to them. Um, and you can pretty much tell them like, look, you know, I, I'm, you know,

00:34:57.020 I'm going to give you my commitment, but I'm not going to give you a hundred percent sexual

00:35:00.460 exclusivity. Um, and it needs to be closed on your end. Like I can't let the well be poisoned

00:35:04.700 or something like that. Um, but I get your point about like the main, yeah, you can do that. Um,

00:35:12.140 whether she actually holds up her end of the bargain, who knows? Yeah. To be determined,

00:35:17.340 I suppose. Um, what other controversial takes have you had? There's, there's been so many,

00:35:22.220 I lost track of them, dude. I, I should have spent some time going through your feed and jotting

00:35:26.780 down some more, but what other controversial takes? So when we, when we say controversial,

00:35:31.020 I guess it means controversial among the red pill community. Um, so we were talking about non-monogamy,

00:35:36.460 for example, I said that, um, being in the swinging lifestyle is a legitimate method,

00:35:41.980 for example, to pursue a non-monogamous relationship. And everyone said it was

00:35:47.020 degenerate. Everyone said it was like a cock strategy. Oh, you're a cock. You let other men

00:35:51.500 bang your wife. And I was like, okay, but what if you bang their wife as well? And they're like,

00:35:57.340 I don't care. It's still degenerate. You know what I mean?

00:35:59.260 Like swinging type of communities, you know, for the most part is most of the chicks are gross.

00:36:08.860 Most, but you know, I've been, first of all, full disclosure, I've, I've been swinging for many,

00:36:14.380 many years. So I don't want to, I don't want to act like, you know, it's them. It's a damn thing.

00:36:18.700 It's, it's also a me thing. Um, but, but there are, there are gems. Okay. Right. So the thing about

00:36:27.020 gross chicks is that if you have, it's going to sound bad because it sounds like human trafficking,

00:36:33.260 but if you have a good looking wife or partner to swap, then you'll tend to have access to better

00:36:39.020 looking wives and girlfriends as well from the other end, if that makes sense.

00:36:42.940 Sure. You got an eight, you're going to get an eight, right?

00:36:44.700 Right, right, right. Because you're not going to have an eight and then you're going to,

00:36:49.180 you're not going to accept a swap of a five for that. You know what I mean?

00:36:53.100 You don't want to hand the keys to the Ferrari and take the keys to a key.

00:36:56.220 Right. Right. But the thing about swinging is that guys take women too seriously. And, and this is,

00:37:02.220 this is just not about swinging. This is about guys having that Disney mindset of placing a woman,

00:37:08.860 a woman on a pedestal. Like even, even the quote unquote red pill guys, they take women very seriously

00:37:14.060 because they, they, they, they vet for a woman as if you can do that. And then they call them

00:37:21.740 this woman, my woman, like my woman, and they become so invested in that one woman.

00:37:27.180 Um, they foresee them living with that woman for the next 10, 20, 30 years. And they sort of like

00:37:35.020 make that woman an integral part of, of everything they do. And to me, I'm like,

00:37:41.340 that's probably not the right philosophy with women because women are very erratic. Women have

00:37:46.940 their own agency. They can change at a dime. And the more seriously you take them, the more

00:37:53.340 in trouble you'll be with them. My philosophy with women is that, you know, if I don't like you,

00:37:58.540 I swap you out. I change you out because they're bolt on. I've talked about this before. They are bolt

00:38:02.940 on their add ons and they can be removed and added at any time. They will never encroach on, you know,

00:38:09.180 the, the core of me, you know? So they're really just optional. And even for the, the, the quote

00:38:15.500 unquote LTRs that I'm in, like if she leaves tomorrow, well, she leaves, I get another chick

00:38:20.700 and I never make anything permanent. I never make anything. I never get, I never bind myself at the

00:38:26.700 hip to them and become inseparable. For example, I wouldn't buy a property with them.

00:38:30.620 Yeah. Um, so here's an interesting question. Like at what point do you have the conversation with

00:38:36.300 them when, you know, she's like, Hey, Jay, I dig your vibe. I want to claim you. I don't want to

00:38:41.260 share you sort of thing. Like at what point do you have the, um, yeah, but I'm still going to bang

00:38:45.980 other chicks, like talk with them. See, there's, there's no, um, there's no fixed rule for this,

00:38:53.180 but usually if a girl wants to claim you, she's going for the, the whole, um, she's in her full,

00:39:01.100 fully in her agenda mode. Um, she's not most of the time, she's not going to accept non-monogamy,

00:39:08.140 even if you're like her best option, or even if you were her chat or anything, if she's in her

00:39:14.060 agenda mode, she probably want a beta who is loyal to her. And then this is contrary to what most,

00:39:19.360 when you say agenda mode, you mean like, uh, she's ready to settle down and have kids. Is that what

00:39:23.740 you mean? Yes. Yes. She wants to get the ring. She wants to get the wedding, the wedding, the

00:39:28.220 proposal, the whole nine yards, you know, she wants to be someone, she wants to not be a loser on

00:39:34.320 Instagram and within a friend group. So with that, you know, she's, she's like 80, 90% optimized for

00:39:41.640 security. So she doesn't really care about whether she likes the guy or not. And if she's ever in that

00:39:46.400 mode, then, um, you don't, you don't actually have an advantage as a quote unquote alpha. So,

00:39:53.040 um, if she's ever in that mode, I would say, just let her go. If she's not in that mode,

00:39:57.580 then most of the time you can really just, just drag it on this whole, um, ambiguity thing.

00:40:04.460 And they would tolerate it. That's why I always tell guys to date, uh, girls who are really young,

00:40:10.220 start at 18, 19, you can write that out for like seven, eight, nine years before she even has any

00:40:16.580 kind of agenda mode. And that would be plenty, uh, for you to have a shit ton of fun with her.

00:40:21.900 For example, my best friend, um, he lives in Australia. He unfortunately got divorced in 20,

00:40:29.660 like four years ago, 2021. Uh, cause his wife, I, I, you know, I told him back then,

00:40:35.580 I told him not to, not to shack up with these undocumented chicks. Cause he has this thing for

00:40:43.060 Vietnamese chicks. I, I don't know why for the life of me, uh, I told him not to wipe her up.

00:40:48.100 He did it anyway. And then once she got her papers, she just, you know, up and left. And,

00:40:53.280 you know, he tried to bag and try to work it out. It didn't matter because, because she planned this

00:40:57.780 from the very start, you know? So I, I, I told him, right. For the next girl, you know, uh, first of all,

00:41:03.320 don't date these undocumented chicks. Second of all, try to go as young as you can. And,

00:41:08.180 and he did that. He, he found a girl who was like 19 years old. He was like 30 something back then.

00:41:12.800 Um, and it worked out really well. And, uh, right now she's like 20, 24, I think she's 24 right now.

00:41:20.320 Um, and, and they're having a great time. So that's, that's why I always try to tell guys,

00:41:24.620 if you want to have a girlfriend, try to get as young as possible. That's when they're

00:41:29.320 maximally fun. If you get one, that's like in 25 or 27 couple of years, max, she's going to start,

00:41:36.340 um, pressuring you for marriage.

00:41:38.820 I've seen you, um, from time to time, make some references to red pill, the manosphere,

00:41:43.800 stuff like that. What's your, what's your overarching take on the manosphere? I'm curious what your,

00:41:49.640 what your position is of these guys.

00:41:51.220 So, you know, I think that as mainstream, um, as, as the red pill becomes more mainstream,

00:41:58.440 it has to, unfortunately become mainstream though.

00:42:04.160 No, no, no. I get it. But, but it's all relative. Cause back then, like 10, 15 years ago,

00:42:08.860 it was very, very niche. But as more and more guys learn about it, it has to adapt itself to be,

00:42:14.940 uh, more and more mainstream palatable. So nowadays I feel like the red pill is more like,

00:42:21.100 when, for example, when you talk about red pill marriage, to me, that doesn't make any sense to

00:42:25.700 me. Like how do you do a red pill marriage in the West? No, no, no freaking way. It's not possible

00:42:31.960 at all. Yeah. So you make reference to Rollo on that. Right, right, right. So, so when you're

00:42:36.680 talking about red pill marriages, it's like, that's an oxymoron. Uh, but I also realized that

00:42:42.400 the whole space needs to evolve to try to, um, uh, uh, include as many men into the fold. So over time,

00:42:50.120 I feel like the red pill space is becoming just more of like a trad con light or trad con alt,

00:42:55.460 uh, sort of, um, uh, school of thought. And you need to ultimately, you need to have your own

00:43:04.960 philosophy, your own philosophy. That's different from like, what's, what's out there. What's textbook

00:43:11.020 red pill, um, philosophy, because that's how, you know, that you really have a mind of your own

00:43:17.480 and that you're really acting in your own best interest. Cause if, if you don't have any views

00:43:21.820 that are controversial in the red pill space, then, and then you're really just a follower.

00:43:26.720 What's, what's the difference between, you know, being pro marriage versus, you know, a fan of red

00:43:32.800 pill marriage, whatever that means, you know, to me, it's like two sides of the same coin.

00:43:36.320 Yeah. I don't, I don't see marriage ever. I mean, the problem that I have with like, I mean,

00:43:43.480 I've talked about the manuscript before I used to collab with a lot of these guys years ago.

00:43:46.600 I don't fucking work with any of them now. Um, I got a new book coming out in November and I

00:43:51.060 exposed a lot of the details of the manuscript. I call it the man-o-swamp now. Um, but they've got

00:43:56.580 all these different colored pills. Like you have these guys that are white pill, black pill,

00:44:00.040 red pill, purple pill, fucking orange pill. It's like, everybody has like a slight deviation

00:44:05.180 and ideology. And then they're like, we're going to call it this color pill. And it's like this

00:44:08.700 obsession with pills kind of gets really into the weeds and nonsense. And it's like, there's either

00:44:15.260 it works for you, it doesn't work for you. And I think there's a lot of, um, a lot of arguing and

00:44:21.700 infighting and, um, clout chasing, um, drama creation, you know, between a lot of the creators,

00:44:29.100 which is one of the things that just bothered the hell in me. Cause I was already proficient and

00:44:33.080 successful before I even got sucked into the Ford, like manosphere sort of stuff. Um, and most of

00:44:39.360 these guys weren't, they were running from the law. They gotten people incarcerated, uh, for, um,

00:44:45.480 following their pickup artistry, uh, ticks, uh, tricks and tips. Um, anyway, I've broken that all

00:44:53.160 down in the book. So I'll leave that for you guys for November, but I just wanted to get your take on

00:44:58.180 the whole like manosphere stuff from your angle. Cause you don't, you don't seem to indulge in it,

00:45:02.400 but at the same time you seem to sort of get it without being a collaborator in it, if I can put

00:45:07.560 it that way. Right. Um, like, like, I mean, you're probably more, more familiar with the, the, the state

00:45:14.400 of the space. Um, I'm not so much in the space. I mean, I, I have my own audience on X. I say whatever

00:45:20.300 comes to mind. Um, but I, I think it's important for every man to have views. Like I said, views that

00:45:28.020 contradict, um, what your favorite, uh, manosphere guy is saying. I mean, if you, for example, if you

00:45:33.420 listen to Fresh and Fit, for example, or, um, you listen to Rolo, um, you should have your own takes

00:45:40.540 that are slightly different from theirs, because that's how you know you're serving your own, um,

00:45:46.400 your own interests, your own needs. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all here for self-improvement.

00:45:50.600 Um, so, um, we are trying to make our lives better. We are trying to level up with women.

00:45:56.420 So it's, it's not so much about following a religion. It's about doing what works for you.

00:46:00.920 Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So we talked about the, the dating aspect. We covered the marriage part.

00:46:09.960 I mean, is there any part of marriage that makes any sense to you? Is there any part of living with

00:46:13.880 a woman that makes like, is there a time in your life that you think that this would make sense?

00:46:17.900 Like I would do this? Hmm. Well, first of all, they have to give men a lot more rights than they

00:46:24.080 do today. That's one thing, but even kind of rights in the need for it to make more sense for you,

00:46:30.040 uh, for marriage, obviously, um, you have to get rid of no fault divorce that, that is a cancer.

00:46:37.660 That wouldn't really solve anything though. Like that's, um, that's a trad con talking point.

00:46:41.800 I've heard a lot from guys like Charlie Kirk and Matthew Walsh and Jordan Peterson and stuff like

00:46:46.540 that, but it's like women will just manufacture a way to get divorced anyway. It's not like they

00:46:51.240 didn't do it before. No fault divorce. Right. I think it's more of an angle of you need to reform

00:46:56.760 family law. So it's default 50, 50 custody always. Um, child support is only in the amount that's,

00:47:04.120 uh, that's in the need of the child. There's no alimony. You know, if you're such a strong

00:47:08.360 independent woman, you can stand on your own two feet. You don't need my money and my shit. You can

00:47:11.740 walk away with what you had to start. Um, and I think marriage should probably be a lease agreement

00:47:17.220 where you can renew it after a certain period of time. Right. Like you just walk away. It's like

00:47:21.860 after five years, you don't want to continue to drive that vehicle. There's too many problems.

00:47:25.380 You just walk away with it, but there might be some conditions if you have kids. Sure. I like to ask

00:47:29.960 these questions just to hear what's going on other guys' minds, you know, when it comes to marriage.

00:47:33.440 The thing is that if you do the lease agreement is that, uh, you've been co-mingling finances and

00:47:38.800 assets for years. So how do you resolve that? Yeah. But if you just reform it completely and

00:47:44.520 it's like, there's no division of assets, you just leave with what you had. Right. And you can

00:47:48.560 untie them out a certain, you know, period of time. There's, there's some contingencies that I would

00:47:53.060 put in that. Cause I think it's important for kids to have good access to both parents and

00:47:56.120 they're probably better off being raised by both parents, but there's a lot of complexities involved

00:48:00.080 in that. I think we got to do away completely with toxic feminism and it's in its current model right

00:48:04.800 now because it's, it's so hostile towards children, um, fathers. And we see what happens

00:48:12.160 in single mother households. I mean, the vast majority of kids today, well, not the vast

00:48:15.300 majority, I think it's 43% of kids come from single mother households and they're literally beta

00:48:20.880 factories, right? Like they turn girls into whores and boys into beta males. And there's not a lot of

00:48:26.040 productive, like production that comes out in a society out of it, if you know what I mean.

00:48:30.080 Um, which sucks because I mean the whole point of us being here is to scatter seed and have kids and

00:48:35.980 all that sort of stuff, but there's, but there's no benefit to it now. I don't see any benefit to

00:48:39.560 it for most guys anyway. A lot of downsides. Yeah. The thing about, uh, reforming divorce is that I

00:48:45.940 think if we look at China, uh, recently they had a new, uh, law that says that anyone who purchases

00:48:53.240 the property and pays for the property within a marriage, uh, holds onto it after divorce. So, um,

00:48:59.280 that's going to take some time for us to see what effect it's going to have. But, uh, it's,

00:49:03.840 it's interesting to note that China is trying to do something about this. They know that, uh,

00:49:09.600 divorce is, is giving a lot of men pause and, and China also, but guys still march into divorce

00:49:17.260 routinely, man. It's like, you know, their goal. They think that if I get married and I do the right

00:49:22.320 thing, she's going to love me forever and care for my children and be respectful and kind and offer me

00:49:27.180 unlimited sexual opportunities whenever I want them. It's like, none of that shit's true, man.

00:49:31.540 If you like getting laid, don't get married. That's, that's why I try. I just don't understand

00:49:35.780 about guys is that, you know, women have been exposed as these like calculated coal mercenaries.

00:49:42.100 They're ruthlessly pregnant. They're not really that way though. Well, I mean, they're just women.

00:49:47.300 Way more than we think they are. You know, if you watch movies and you watch, um, TV shows and you

00:49:52.760 watch Disney, you know, films, you think that women are these innocent creatures, but they're

00:49:57.720 not right. So there, there, there's more than meets the eye when it comes to women. So the point

00:50:03.140 is that they're, they're a little more, um, calculated than we think basically. And I just

00:50:12.160 don't see why, why men once hold on to this idealism and this, um, this idea that, that they're in love

00:50:21.040 and that they're romantics. It's wild though, because I mean, there's this book, um, it's

00:50:25.380 called the history of marriage and the whole point of marriage throughout history was the acquisition

00:50:29.460 of in-laws, right? It's like, we didn't have police and government and law enforcement, all

00:50:33.720 that kind of shit. And it's like, you know, I've got three brothers and we got farms and

00:50:37.240 a blacksmith and a, I don't know, a cobbler shop or something like that. And she's got a doctor

00:50:42.240 in her family and a teacher that can, you know, like educate children sort of thing. You just

00:50:46.140 sort of like acquire in-laws and, and you can pass down your shit to your kids. Like that

00:50:50.660 was the original notion of, of, of marriage and love had nothing to do with it. Like

00:50:55.300 if you look at the court records and the diaries of the people that they kept over the years,

00:50:59.020 love had nothing to do. It was about acquiring in-laws, having kids and leaving some shit

00:51:03.260 to them. Um, but that's all been like bastardized and twisted around. I'm not exactly sure when,

00:51:07.840 but it's, but it's a complete like upside down oopsie sort of thing. And you get the random

00:51:13.320 guys like the Matt Walsh is the world. They're all like, Oh, the marriage is the best thing

00:51:16.380 that ever happened to me. And you all should go get married too, because it worked out really

00:51:19.220 well for me. And it's like, yeah, so far, but like, let's make sure that we insert so

00:51:23.520 far. Um, because for most guys, it's not the sweet spot. And even for the guys where it's

00:51:29.260 a sweet spot. And I surveyed an audience on this at one point, one of the things that a

00:51:33.660 lot of the guys said is the only reason why my marriage is a sweet spot. One of the stronger

00:51:37.640 components was because she wasn't a hoe when I married her. Right. So it's like, she didn't

00:51:41.860 run around. She didn't have that experience. She wants to stick around. She's not easy to

00:51:45.520 sort of like bounce and go on to the next guy, but that's what they got a hundred years ago is

00:51:50.100 you got an agreeable virgin. Today you get a disagreeable bitch that's been with, you know,

00:51:53.480 50, a hundred guys or whatever. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, the thing about marriage is that you,

00:51:59.040 you said something about at some point it, it became something else. Uh, I think the love

00:52:03.180 marriages thing, like marrying for love things start started in the 1800s or something like that.

00:52:09.060 And then over time it just became more and more democratized and like regular people

00:52:14.060 get married, you know, like everyone got married and I guess it just became, it became whatever it

00:52:21.900 is today. Um, yeah, we talked about, um, kids before, I think, um, we were, we were chatting about

00:52:29.300 marriage and you can't really have kids without marriage, but I, I wasn't sure if we got that on

00:52:34.540 the same page, but was that what you were saying? Like you can't have kids without marriage or can you

00:52:38.700 have kids without marriage? No, no, no. You absolutely can have kids without marriage.

00:52:42.400 What I'm saying is that for most men having kids without marriage will be out of reach for them

00:52:48.260 because they're going to have trouble finding a woman who is willing to bear their children with

00:52:53.720 no financial guarantees. That's the reality. You know, we'd like to say that we'd like to say

00:52:58.660 that, Oh, you can have kids without marriage. Yes. If you're of a certain caliber or if you're of a

00:53:03.700 certain caliber, a chick would do anything for you without marriage. Yeah, exactly. Right. But if you're not

00:53:08.440 off a certain caliber, then the price of admission for you is at the very minimum marriage. Yeah.

00:53:13.660 And that's the thing that I think destroys a lot of guys is they agree to commit to a woman and give

00:53:19.220 her her, her wedding, her big party, the honeymoon, the house, the ring, the kids and all that sort of

00:53:24.340 shit. But I think for the vast majority of guys that get in a marriage now, they're not her first

00:53:28.620 choice and she resents the guy. Um, and she doesn't, she doesn't like, it's not keeping her glued to

00:53:34.880 the guy. If you know what I mean? It's like, she kind of fucking hates the guy. I think you,

00:53:38.480 you've shared, you know, post before I, again, you know, I wish I queued it up, but she had one

00:53:43.900 about, um, this chick that, uh, was traveling Europe. I think you said, we don't hate women

00:53:49.600 enough or something like that. Oh, here it is. Life hack. You know, she visited 14 cities and six

00:53:56.720 countries. And it's like, you know, she traveled around on like the dime of like beta male dorks that,

00:54:02.460 that like gave her the tour of the city, but, um, spent the night with the chads, you know,

00:54:07.140 sort of thing. Right. And this is a lot more common than we would like to, we would like to

00:54:11.940 admit to ourselves. It's a lot more common. What, what, what percentage of marriages do you think,

00:54:17.800 um, exists today where the woman has contempt for the guy because he wasn't her first choice?

00:54:26.080 I would say the vast majority. Uh, first of all, women don't get to marry their first choice.

00:54:32.000 That's most of the time. Yeah. Because their first choice have a shit ton of options. So, um,

00:54:37.860 most of them are not even the marrying kind, you know, because her, a lot of these chicks,

00:54:43.560 they're alpha widowed and they're alpha widowed because they couldn't make their alpha commit

00:54:48.640 and time is running out. So they just went for the first, the first chump who's, who's available.

00:54:55.740 So that's, that's a fact. That's a fact. I'm not going to, um, sugarcoat it. The other thing is that,

00:55:02.820 um, they try their very best to either convince themselves that, you know, they like this guy,

00:55:09.480 or they try to learn to like this guy, or they try to convince themselves that he's alpha in certain

00:55:15.060 ways or whatever. But, you know, once you're alpha widowed, it's, it's just not possible until

00:55:19.800 you find the next guy who can actually measure up or even exceed that guy who is renting space for

00:55:26.680 free in your head. So, you know, I, I, I always tell guys if, if it's possible, you know, try to

00:55:33.940 look for a girl who's not alpha widowed, but you just don't know. How, how do you know you can't vet

00:55:38.260 for this? Yeah. It's, it's tough. I mean, they don't wear a t-shirt that says, you know,

00:55:43.400 12 years ago. Yeah. So you don't know, you really don't know you roll the dice and that's,

00:55:51.240 that's the thing. If you don't know, you shouldn't make a decision, but I guess for,

00:55:54.420 for a lot of guys, they, if I look at my friends that, you know, the, the, the guys I went to school

00:56:00.380 with, a lot of them got married in their late twenties, early thirties. Um, most of them have never

00:56:05.840 dated in high school and they basically just married the first guy, uh, the first girl who

00:56:11.380 liked them back. And that's a very bad idea. Yeah. That's a very, very bad joke about that.

00:56:15.980 Jed, you know, I tell guys all the time, what, like the first girl that touches your PP and

00:56:19.300 responds to your text, like you're going to marry her. And that's most guys strategy, right?

00:56:22.700 Right. Right. No, no, no. But it makes sense from their, their perspective because, you know,

00:56:26.760 they've lived 20, however many years or 30, however many years, no girl has ever liked them back.

00:56:31.460 No guy, no girl has even looked in their direction. So when they had,

00:56:35.840 the first girl was like willing to touch their PP, their first instinct is to lock them down

00:56:40.060 immediately with marriage so that she can't run away because they don't want to live that,

00:56:44.560 that life ever again. You know, they have this huge scarcity mentality about them. Yeah.

00:56:51.380 What do you think the main contributors are to the degradation, the decline of the experience that

00:56:58.920 men, and I guess maybe women have over the term of a long-term relationship? Like what do you

00:57:04.660 think contributes or what happens? Because, you know, they did this study, uh, Aaron and Acevedo,

00:57:11.040 I'm probably pronouncing the name is wrong. I quoted my first book, but after something like

00:57:15.100 eight odd years, they surveyed hundreds of people. And it was only something like 13% reported being in

00:57:21.060 a state of love with one another. And only 3% reported, uh, being in a state of bliss, like obsession,

00:57:27.140 which is kind of like what they sell you with marriage. Like, Oh, get married and you'll be in

00:57:30.380 blissful existence, you know, into perpetuity sort of thing. But it rarely happens like for the,

00:57:35.400 for most people's experiences. And I think for men, it's, it's, it's worse than women because women,

00:57:40.460 they definitely have a sharper decline in attraction for the guy than the guy does for a guy. It's a

00:57:44.500 little slower woman. It's more like a hockey stick. I'm just curious, you know, from your observations,

00:57:48.620 what do you think it is that contributes to the decline of long-term relationships and the

00:57:53.580 happiness that they have for each other? Cause very few over the years, like we got Deborah Brady in the

00:57:58.100 chat. She's been here for a while. She's been married forever. She always talks about how great

00:58:00.920 her marriage is, but very few people have that experience. Right. Um, well, first of all,

00:58:06.460 we have to see if it's even biological. Maybe we're not meant to be monogamous or mate with the same

00:58:12.640 partner for that long. We don't know. I mean, you know, research has to look into that. Um, the other

00:58:17.740 thing is obviously, I think it's pretty conclusive that we're not monogamous or we're not very good at

00:58:21.780 monogamy. You know, I can put it there you go. There you go. So that's, that's obviously part of it.

00:58:25.380 Um, the other thing is that, um, you know, the different people just have a different

00:58:30.340 threshold. Like for me, like I lasted eight months in my, my cohabitation relationship. Um,

00:58:36.320 it's, it's just over time, over time, familiarity breeds contempt and you see more and more.

00:58:43.720 Yeah. You see more and more of them that you wish you didn't see. And over eight years, 10 years,

00:58:49.400 it's like, um, you know, that person inside out and, um, for, I guess for, for women, they,

00:58:55.740 they tend to get fatter as well. I mean, I hate to cast, you know, I don't want to generalize,

00:58:59.960 but a lot of them get really fat and really uncamped. They don't care about their appearance,

00:59:04.480 the grooming after a while. And, and we, we men are very visual. So, you know, if you,

00:59:10.640 you have that in your house and, you know, you have to be seen in public with her and all that,

00:59:15.380 that compromises your quality of life, that's definitely part of it.

00:59:20.300 Yeah. I think that proximity has a strong contributor to that. Cause when you're in

00:59:24.740 the close proximity to somebody, you know, their habits become annoying, their behaviors,

00:59:30.000 their little mannerisms or the little indignities and they sort of pile up and you begin to like

00:59:34.580 resent, you know, it's a whole, like never meet your hero, you know, sort of thing.

00:59:38.960 Right. And I did propose an alternative model before for my, for my, uh,

00:59:45.380 follows an ax. I said, okay, so you don't have to live with her, but that doesn't mean that, um,

00:59:52.700 you can't have some, enjoy some of the, uh, you know, the, the, the benefits of living together

00:59:59.680 with her. So that's why I tell her, I tell people to have your girlfriend over on the weekends.

01:00:03.800 So she stays over on Friday and Saturday, and then you send her packing on Sunday.

01:00:08.380 And I've, I've experimented, I've, I've experimented with a large, uh, number of things.

01:00:12.820 And this is a model that a lot of guys in the comments have reported just works. It works.

01:00:17.920 It worked for 10 years. It works for 20 years. Just keep doing that. You know, she maintains

01:00:21.600 her own residence. You maintain your residence. You can stay over at hers or she can stay over

01:00:25.500 at yours, but you never make it like a full-time thing. And that works exactly.

01:00:29.260 Yeah. They call it together, living apart. And I think that's, that's certainly going to prolong

01:00:35.020 the, the slow decay of most long-term relationships because you have that time apart.

01:00:40.880 And if you want to slow the decay further, you make it non-monogamous, you know,

01:00:45.240 dude, I was just about to say, so there's three ities. Like, that's why I asked you the question

01:00:49.100 because I wanted to see where you're at. You know, I wrote about this in my next book. I think

01:00:52.720 proximity, familiarity, and exclusivity are the three ities that kill long-term desire

01:00:57.420 in a relationship and exclusivity, uh, especially. Yeah. Well, it's really funny because women will

01:01:05.480 put up with a lot of shit early on in the relationship. They'll say things like, look,

01:01:09.940 I know you're probably seeing anybody else. If you are, just be safe. Like they'll sort of drop

01:01:13.180 some kind of a soundbite like that and they'll put up with it. But then at some point for most guys,

01:01:18.580 they'll, they'll end up just abandoning other options because it hurts her or he sees that it hurts

01:01:25.900 her and he doesn't want her hurt because he loves her at that point. So he makes some sacrifices at

01:01:31.400 that point. And what usually ends up happening, I've noticed is that, um, guys usually get punished

01:01:37.300 for giving her what she wants, right? Like she becomes more distance, colder, less intimacy. The

01:01:44.040 enthusiasm with which intimacy happens is on the decline sort of thing. Um, so it's an interesting

01:01:51.380 balancing act because I, I don't think marching into marriage, like guys like Jordan Peterson

01:01:55.540 fucking advocate for people. Like he's got this course. I, um, behind the paywall on daily,

01:02:01.100 on daily wire on a marriage. It was like a three part series. I'm like, okay, you know,

01:02:04.900 I talk about marriage and divorce and stuff like that. So let's go behind the paywall and see what

01:02:09.540 this is. There was nothing there. It was, it was, don't be a pussy and just marry her. You know,

01:02:13.480 you have to, like, you just can't date a woman. You can't love a woman. You have to get married to

01:02:17.560 her in the eyes of the court. And I'm like, this is some shitty ass advice here. Right.

01:02:20.980 And it's like, there's nothing like, Hey, take a look at her medicine cabinet and see what med she's

01:02:25.460 on. She might be a psychopath, you know, or doing some basic vetting, like some actionable sort of

01:02:31.440 advice. And I've actually come to the conclusion. I think that proximity familiarity and too much

01:02:36.140 exclusivity for a woman is what kills desire in a long-term relationship. And that's a hill that I'm

01:02:42.900 prepared to die on and debate anybody on by the way, because I've seen enough of it.

01:02:46.860 Right. You talk about the exclusivity where she tells you to be exclusive to her. She wants to

01:02:51.400 claim you and all that. You know, I always see that as a shit test. First of all, first of all,

01:02:56.920 it doesn't make her like you more. That's obvious because you're falling into her frame. Monogamy is

01:03:03.380 her frame. It's not our frame. You know, our biological imperative is to spare our seat. R and Y. But the

01:03:08.720 other thing is that you don't want to lose your edge. Like you don't want to only have sex because you

01:03:16.020 are providing for the person you're having sex with. You want to be capable of having sex with

01:03:21.560 other girls just based on your looks, your presentation, your charisma, whatever it is.

01:03:26.760 Did you ever see that bit that Patrice O'Neill did on the fishing boat?

01:03:30.280 What's that?

01:03:31.140 Did you ever see the bit that Patrice O'Neill did on the fishing boat?

01:03:34.180 No, I'm not familiar with that one.

01:03:35.940 I'm going to send it to you because it explains exactly what it is you're talking about. But carry

01:03:40.420 on. I'll send it to you afterwards.

01:03:41.800 Okay. Yeah. So, so I just think that's very important because you don't know what the future

01:03:47.840 holds. You don't know if she's going to leave you tomorrow. You don't know if she's going to cheat on

01:03:50.820 you or, or just make life very miserable for you. So you want to always keep that edge so that you

01:03:57.460 know that you can get another woman at any time, regardless of how long you've been in a relationship

01:04:02.800 or God forbid marriage with her. So, um, that that's very important. It's, it's not just important for

01:04:09.600 women. It's important for your general quality of life, your confidence, your self-esteem.

01:04:14.100 And, um, I just, I just think it's a tremendous waste of life. If I, for example, for me, if I

01:04:21.540 spend a year, just fucking one girl over and over again, I consider that a failure. So, you know,

01:04:26.560 that would be a huge, you know, a huge emergency situation that I need to rectify immediately.

01:04:32.540 And, um, you know, you can, you have a number of ways to do it. You can do it through,

01:04:36.560 you know, you have a rotation, you can do hookups. I don't recommend prostitutes obviously,

01:04:42.380 because that's just giving up. Um, a lot of guys will say otherwise. Um, the problem that I have

01:04:48.100 with paying for it and prostitution, I know guys do it, but it's like you have natural,

01:04:54.540 genuine burning desire where a woman will do anything for you if, and, and to you and for you

01:05:00.700 because she loves and adores you and is sexually attracted to you. But when it comes to negotiating,

01:05:06.300 like, give me money for this transaction, then it becomes transactional. It's not authentic.

01:05:11.160 Very, very transactional. And it, you know, a lot of guys say that, oh, well, you know,

01:05:16.420 I get laid anyway, but I think it's very bad for your self-esteem. I, you know, like I said,

01:05:21.100 I try everything. I've tried everything. I've even tried paying for a prostitute. I tried it twice

01:05:25.280 in my life. And the first time I felt a little bad, like, I feel like, okay, so why other guys,

01:05:31.000 why do other guys get it for free? But why do I have to pay for it? That's, that's the first,

01:05:34.140 that's the first thought that crept into my mind. The second thing is that I just feel that

01:05:38.320 I'm literally bribing her just to like me. So if I didn't bribe her, she wouldn't even take a second

01:05:44.880 look at me. Yeah. She wouldn't even look my way. And the third thing was that she was so mechanical

01:05:51.280 and, and like, you know, almost clinical, like, like in, it's like, she's doing a medical procedure.

01:05:56.920 This is no love. There's no passion. There's nothing. It's transactional.

01:06:00.080 It's very, very, very transactional. And any guy who says that, oh, it's the same thing. No,

01:06:04.660 it's not the same thing. It's the furthest thing from the same thing. Obviously, if you don't have,

01:06:12.260 I mean, I don't, some incels will say that, you know, well, I've tried my best the regular way,

01:06:19.140 and I'm not genetically blessed, like most guys to get it for free. I guess the only option I have left

01:06:26.320 is to pay for it. I mean, if, if, if you're in that situation, you know, I'm not going to act

01:06:31.600 all high and mighty and say that you shouldn't do it, but this is something that you should avoid as

01:06:36.060 best as you can, because it does not feel good. It does not feel good to pay a chick. And then

01:06:41.300 after that, you know, it just craters your self-esteem. It's like, oh my God, you know,

01:06:45.080 what am I doing with my life? You know, it's like my heart and money, and I'm just tossing it to some

01:06:50.100 chick who hates me. And she's only doing it because rent is due next month. And you know,

01:06:56.200 you, there's so many rules, or you got to put on a condom, you can't kiss me, you can't touch me

01:07:01.000 here, you can't touch me there. That is something I do not recommend for guys, unless you have

01:07:07.100 absolutely no choice whatsoever. Yeah, which is the opposite of what you've managed to accomplish with

01:07:12.900 total opposite, total opposite. Yeah, hookups are probably the best. I would say hookups are probably

01:07:18.880 the best because you are not bribing her, not even with dinner or drinks. Like she's literally

01:07:23.900 showing up because she likes you as a person, or she's attracted to you as a person. And that means

01:07:29.300 a lot. That is pretty rare in, in the modern world. Yeah. I think I heard you say that you can't vet

01:07:36.540 women. So I have a chapter on 21 red flags. I'm sure that you're aware because I, because it shows up

01:07:41.520 as an auto reply on, on, on Twitter X. Yes. Um, explain that view on an inability to vet women.

01:07:49.860 Right. Okay. So when I said you can't wet, when you can't, when I say you can't vet women,

01:07:54.480 it's for marriage because marriage is permanent. And second of all, uh, women behave very differently

01:08:01.480 before they have locked you down by a marriage. And, and you think that, you know, the real her,

01:08:08.200 um, you're watching her, you're, you're observing her before marriage, but you know, women are very,

01:08:13.960 very good at pretending, but once they get what they have or what they want, then, you know,

01:08:18.580 they start getting fat. They start nagging at you. They start making life very, very difficult for you.

01:08:23.420 And a lot of these guys too, they don't do like a trial marriage thing, like where they live with the

01:08:27.500 chick for a while for like a year or two to see what she's like in that environment. You know,

01:08:32.500 you don't even have to marry her to see, well, for the most part, you don't have to marry her for her

01:08:36.820 to see how she would behave, uh, as a wife. You just have to live with her for, um, a couple of

01:08:42.260 years, maybe, maybe a year, a year max is sufficient for you to see all her flaws. And I always tell guys,

01:08:48.060 you know, live with her for a year first, or you can propose to her and then propose that you guys

01:08:53.160 move in together. Don't actually sign any papers yet because proposals just, you know,

01:08:57.380 it's just a formality. Uh, it's just unofficial. Um, but it, it gives her that, that dopamine hit

01:09:05.320 that she has already locked you down. You get what I mean? So the engagement is a great thing for men,

01:09:10.700 as long as you don't follow through and, and do the, the full marriage thing. So try to live with

01:09:16.140 her, observe her over a year. And, um, that is probably much better vetting than you can do than

01:09:23.740 simply just, you know, looking at her right now, because when you get married with a chick and you

01:09:28.520 move in with her for the first time, you're combining two things. You're combining the fact

01:09:32.700 that you're living with her for the first time. So you're seeing all her bad habits. And the second

01:09:36.180 thing is you're, you're also combining this new dynamic of her all of a sudden having legal leverage

01:09:42.580 over you. So we don't know how people will behave if they have power and wealth. We just don't know.

01:09:48.920 We think we know, but it's like, you know, it's like trying to predict how your friend or your

01:09:55.180 best friend is going to behave. Um, if they suddenly won $10 million in the lottery, we have

01:10:00.280 no idea. You know, they might totally just wash their hands clean of you and pretend they don't

01:10:05.060 know you, or they might take you along for the right. You really don't know. I mean, and they're

01:10:08.920 your best friend. You're supposed to know them well, but you really don't know. So that's why I say

01:10:12.840 you can't vet them because, um, the conditions under which you are vetting them or, or, or

01:10:18.100 observing them are very, very different from the conditions after marriage where you have

01:10:22.180 totally given up your legal leverage. And she knows that you can't leave her anymore without

01:10:27.220 paying a hefty financial penalty. And that's why I say you can't vet for marriage as for, uh,

01:10:32.440 relationships and such. You can vet because she knows that you still hold some leverage, which

01:10:37.240 is you can leave her if her behavior ever gets, um, out of control. So she knows that

01:10:43.320 she can behave in a certain way to the extent of not fully driving you away. Uh, but she

01:10:49.540 does know that you can leave in a relationship. That's why women are all, you know, fixated

01:10:54.340 on marriage because they know that once they get married, they can do whatever the hell

01:10:57.640 they want. Yeah. I wish the guys in the, the 500 level would pay attention to that and

01:11:02.900 hear it, but they never seem to accept that message. Um, it sounds like you've traveled

01:11:08.460 around a lot and you've lived in a lot of different places. What's your view on America

01:11:12.460 now that you live there? Like, is it what you thought it would be? Is it better? Is it

01:11:16.220 worse? I'm curious. Um, you, you really have to live abroad to, to experience different systems

01:11:24.120 all over the world. And you, you see the pros and cons of America very quickly. Um, once

01:11:29.060 you do that, um, good things about a good thing in America is that, for example, it

01:11:34.100 sounds cliche, but freedom, freedom is a real thing. For example, uh, not just freedom

01:11:38.420 of speech, you know, you get people, people are being arrested in my country, for example,

01:11:42.500 um, in most parts of Europe for posting stuff online. So that still hasn't happened in America.

01:11:49.660 I'm not sure if it has happened in Canada yet, but it hasn't happened in America, but it

01:11:53.300 happens a lot in the UK, for example, in UK and France. Yeah. We've seen lots of examples

01:11:58.120 of that. Yeah. There's, there's, there's certain things you can't say in other countries,

01:12:02.520 but in America you have freedom of speech. Uh, second thing is Americans, you know, they

01:12:08.220 are very divided in the way that at least if there's some kind of crazy policy that that's

01:12:13.840 being proposed, at least, at least 50% of the population is going to be up in arms about

01:12:19.040 it. For example, a few years ago, we had the whole COVID thing with the whole vaccines and

01:12:23.400 the mask thing. Um, you know, I actually felt pretty proud that I was living in a country

01:12:28.560 where at least 50% of the population fought back against it because in other countries,

01:12:32.300 they just fought, they just followed it. You know, they just followed it in Asia and Europe.

01:12:35.940 They're like, Oh, it's just for our health. We have to keep, you know, we have to keep grandma

01:12:39.740 safe or whatever it is. And, uh, and they just comply. And, and that's not good because if

01:12:44.980 you have a, you have a population that just complies to these crazy ass policies, the government

01:12:49.600 is just going to keep pushing the boundary to see what they can get away with. They're

01:12:53.300 going to keep creeping on your personal liberties, uh, liberties until you have none left. And

01:12:58.220 thankfully in America, we have a population or at least part of the population who would

01:13:02.680 actually, you know, racist think about it. And that's a good thing. Uh, in Canada too,

01:13:07.040 for example, we have the whole truckers, uh, um, protesting the vaccine thing. Um, and that,

01:13:13.340 and that was great. That was great because that didn't happen in a lot of other countries

01:13:16.420 where they forced the vaccines on. It was necessary because we had like lockdowns,

01:13:23.220 like hard lockdowns when most of American States were free and open. There was no mass,

01:13:28.840 there was no mandates, there was no travel vaccine to get on flights or anything like

01:13:32.180 that. But we still had, you had to prove proof of vaccination to fly, take a train. Uh, when

01:13:38.500 you went into a restaurant, you had to wear a mask to walk to your table, but then you can

01:13:42.100 take a mask when you sat, take it off when you sat. That was just bonkers to me. It's like COVID

01:13:46.280 was up here, but it wasn't down here where you were sitting. Right. And it's like, the

01:13:51.060 truckers are just like, you want to shove vaccination down our throat when 99.9% of

01:13:56.600 the time we're by ourselves in a truck and they just lost their shit and they went up

01:13:59.640 to Ottawa and they protested. Right. And that was great. And that was very unusual for Canadians

01:14:03.740 to actually behave that way. They, they all bent over for a very, like I was getting pissed

01:14:08.780 off. Like I was at the point where I was just like, I, I got to get out of here. Like

01:14:11.860 I can't stay here. Um, yeah. The thing is they, they, they also, they also, um, I heard

01:14:19.680 that they got their bank accounts frozen and all, all the other truckers had their bank

01:14:23.000 accounts frozen, their insurance canceled. People that donated money to the truckers up

01:14:26.600 in Ottawa, um, had their bank accounts frozen and issues with the government too. Yep. So

01:14:30.720 that was, that was pretty draconian. And I don't think that it would have happened here

01:14:35.240 in America. No, it didn't. It didn't like not even close. That's my point. That's my

01:14:39.260 point. A lot of Americans take for granted like the freedoms and, and that was even

01:14:43.600 with the democratic government too, wasn't it? Cause I think Joe Biden was president

01:14:46.960 when COVID was really in the world. Yes, Biden was president. But even then, even then it's

01:14:51.000 just the whole American culture of freedom and liberty, uh, that you can just, that you

01:14:55.580 can't just trample over. So that's very, very valuable in America. Are you, are you bullish

01:15:00.920 on America in the future or are you bearish on the States? Well, I mean, it depends

01:15:05.760 for what, if you're talking about, uh, tech, uh, the economy. Sure. Sure. I would say America

01:15:13.640 is keeping up, um, as a place to live. I don't think so. So it really depends. You

01:15:19.880 mean on what the culture? I don't think so. Do I think that the, uh, the feminism crap

01:15:25.480 is going to go away anytime soon? I don't think so. But I think that Gen Z men are actually

01:15:31.100 doing a good job at, at pushing back. I think Gen Z men are the least romantic, least

01:15:36.380 idealistic, most like for lack of a better word, based, um, generation of men. So I

01:15:43.920 think there is some hope right there. You know, they're, they're probably the least

01:15:48.220 likely to get married. They're probably the least likely to, to cohabitate with a

01:15:51.840 chick. Um, and they're probably the least likely to, uh, that generation, like that

01:15:57.000 genre that you're describing, they seem to sort of follow into like the

01:16:00.200 grow up or crowd for like the Nick Fuentes follow. Right, right, right, right. I

01:16:05.180 don't think they have the optionality that they'd like, like opting out is fine, but

01:16:09.980 opting out when you have the optionality to opt in is a totally different story.

01:16:13.580 And I don't know the optionality to opt in exists for them. I'm not entirely sure

01:16:17.460 at this point. You mentioned that, um, you would see somewhere else is a better

01:16:22.560 place to live. Like where would you put above the States?

01:16:25.800 Well, first of all, it's very subjective. Uh, I know there are a lot of guys who say

01:16:31.560 that they're having the time of their lives in, in Columbia, in Thailand, in, uh, for

01:16:38.280 example, the Philippines, in Brazil. Um, it really depends what you're looking for.

01:16:43.680 You know, if you're, if you're, you know, I actually think that the, the American

01:16:47.860 suburbs, like the smaller towns, the small cities is still not a bad place to raise a

01:16:51.640 family in America, but then again, you have Western family law. So you want to try to

01:16:56.100 get away from that if you can. Um, if you're a young guy and you're just trying to like

01:17:01.000 meet women, have fun, you know, Thailand is great. Um, most parts of Europe are pretty

01:17:09.620 good. Um, you know, a lot of it is not, not really the country it's, it's, you know, if

01:17:15.340 you have a source of a remote source of income and you can make it anywhere, then really

01:17:20.700 anywhere in the world is your playground. Um, that's very subjective. It really depends

01:17:25.720 what you value. Let me just throw this, uh, prenup comment up here. Cause it says a prenup

01:17:31.760 should be mandatory before you marry a woman, but it's like, I don't think guys understand

01:17:35.640 that a prenup, like the best of prenups going to do for you is if it holds up, if you get

01:17:41.720 divorced, you're not going to have to give up half your shit. You're still going to have

01:17:44.760 to pay the legal bills. You're still going to have to fight. There's still going to be

01:17:47.200 custody issues. You're probably going to have to, uh, pay, uh, uh, child support in

01:17:52.300 excess of what the child needs monthly. She's probably going to try to alienate you from

01:17:55.560 the kids. Like prenups don't solve any of those problems. Um, there's still that fight

01:18:01.480 that happens, which I don't think should exist at all.

01:18:04.860 You know, I'm anti-prenups because first of all, they fail. So it's not a, it's not a

01:18:10.340 hundred percent thing. Second of the, second of all, it just reflects the mindset of the

01:18:13.720 person. It's like the person is trying their hardest to justify marriage. Why are

01:18:17.460 you trying to justify marriage? Like I always say, it's, it's like putting on a

01:18:20.840 bulletproof vest and then shooting yourself in the chest. You know what I mean? Okay.

01:18:24.380 Like, so, okay. So you're taking precaution, but you're better off just not

01:18:27.740 shooting yourself in the chest in the first place. Right. So why are these guys

01:18:30.860 trying to cope with like, Oh, you know, you, you, you got to have a prenup. You got to

01:18:34.500 put your assets in your mom's name, or you gotta, you gotta set up these, these

01:18:38.100 overseas offshore trusts. You got to have this irrevocable trust, this LLC, you know,

01:18:43.360 you got to obfuscate everything. I'm like, or you can just not get married in

01:18:47.420 the first place. You know, a lot of these guys trying to cope with all these

01:18:50.740 like legal fancy tricks. It's because they don't want to lose marriage as a

01:18:55.460 sexual strategy. I keep trying to tell them like marriage is a shitty sexual

01:18:59.840 strategy. Don't use it as a sexual strategy. I mean, like you're trying to

01:19:03.580 cling onto it so hard is it's because you don't have anything else. Maybe you

01:19:07.320 should increase your SMB. Maybe that's, you know, that's a lot better than just,

01:19:11.420 you know, trying. What do you think that is? Do you think it's like a religious

01:19:13.820 thing, a cultural thing? I think it's a, it's a cultural thing. A lot of these

01:19:18.420 guys can't bear, or they don't know how to answer their friends and family when

01:19:22.680 being asked, like, for example, at 30 or 35, like, Oh, when are you getting

01:19:26.560 married? Oh, you know, uh, aren't you getting hitched anytime soon? You know,

01:19:30.260 they don't know how to answer. They don't know how to deal with it. And, and they

01:19:33.700 just want to want badly to get married and they don't know how to do it

01:19:38.660 safely because there's no way to do it safely. You know, the, the whole system

01:19:42.420 is, it's, it's bulletproof. It's hard. You know, I mean, like bottom line, you

01:19:46.720 can just tell people to mind their own fucking business and it's, yeah, yeah,

01:19:49.240 yeah. But you know, they don't have the balls to do that. That's the thing. If

01:19:52.000 they have the balls to do that, they, they wouldn't be in this situation in the

01:19:54.640 first place. So when they always say that prenups are mandatory, I'm like, you

01:19:58.500 know, don't count on it. Um, it gives you a false sense of security, allows you

01:20:03.660 into a false sense of security. You think with a prenup, you can do anything. And then,

01:20:07.720 you know, a lot of these celebrities have prenups and then when they get to

01:20:10.760 family court, they realize, Oh, you know what? These prenups aren't worth the

01:20:13.700 paper they're printed on. And, and a lot of these prenups increasingly, they're

01:20:18.440 being challenged in court. They're bringing, um, they're not being honored by

01:20:21.500 court because these, these family courts, they want you to get divorced. They

01:20:24.620 want you to pay a lot of money to your wife. Um, I know, I know they, they get,

01:20:28.120 they, they get a cut of it, of child support and alimony in America. I'm not sure

01:20:32.340 about Canada and other places, but they do have a financial stake in it. So, um,

01:20:37.480 Well, family law is the most profitable area of legal practice for lawyers, right?

01:20:42.300 Yes.

01:20:42.700 They make more money practicing family law, especially in private practice. I mean,

01:20:46.560 you could be a corporate lawyer for Tesla, you know, I suppose maybe make more

01:20:49.560 money, but most private lawyers that practice family law make the most money.

01:20:54.320 Yep. And the thing about family law, I don't like is that it only enforces the

01:20:58.440 male obligation. It has never, ever enforced.

01:21:01.440 Yeah. Isn't that interesting that.

01:21:02.760 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's just, that's just not like, they don't enforce

01:21:05.420 her to keep banging you, but you have to keep paying her.

01:21:07.880 Yeah. No, you know, first of all, okay. When you get divorced, they'll say, okay,

01:21:10.460 for the next five years, you got to pay her, you know, what? $5,000 a month for,

01:21:14.560 for example, it, it never ever says like for the next five years, she has to suck

01:21:18.080 your dick three times a week, you know, you never ever get anything like that.

01:21:21.180 So I'm like, why would, you know, guys keep signing up for this thing, you know,

01:21:24.820 where it's obviously one-sided and all she has all the rights, she has zero

01:21:27.880 responsibilities. Like what is even the point? You know, if you can't get the

01:21:32.700 chick's attention or her commitment or her companionship without marriage, then

01:21:37.020 trust me, it's not worth, you know, it's not worth marrying her for.

01:21:41.000 Because a woman will forego her sexual strategy and marriage if she actually

01:21:47.040 likes you enough.

01:21:48.280 Absolutely.

01:21:49.140 You know, she'll drop it. She'll let it go. She'll be like, fine, we don't have to

01:21:52.300 do that. Or, you know, you can offer an alternative, like, you know, maybe

01:21:56.700 something we look at later on down the road in the world, in a country that's

01:21:59.540 not as hostile, you know, towards fathers and men as this country is, you know,

01:22:03.680 there's different ways that you can handle it, but you will find that women

01:22:07.320 will drop it if she sees you as her best hypergamous option. That's just

01:22:12.520 absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't say they'll fully drop it. They'll probably

01:22:15.760 complain about it in private or complain about on the internet or to their

01:22:19.580 friends. But, but the problem is, is when we get a lot of pressure by their

01:22:22.600 family and friends too, right? It's like, you know, why won't he marry you?

01:22:25.500 Like what's wrong with them? Like, why don't you just have these friends

01:22:29.240 around them and they're like, you know, yeah, that's why I always say nobody

01:22:32.120 hates women more than other women. They feed them that dumb shit.

01:22:35.400 Yeah. Yeah. They'll, you know, people should just mind their own business, but

01:22:38.060 that's not how it works. And girls are very susceptible to friends and family

01:22:41.220 as well. You know, all that chatter about like, Oh, he's using you. Oh, he's

01:22:44.480 leading you on, you know, he's playing you and all that. Uh, so it takes a, you

01:22:48.520 know, ideally if you have, if you find a girl, you know, try to find a girl

01:22:51.560 without that many friends, I guess, you know, because the more friends she

01:22:55.660 has, the more she feels that she has to account to them, the more she feels

01:22:59.360 that, um, she has to conform to what they're all doing as well.

01:23:03.420 Yeah. It's like they have a council that they, that they run everything by.

01:23:07.360 It's like, I have this important thing in my life.

01:23:08.540 Because girls have one of their own, you know, they sit down, they crack open a

01:23:12.480 box of wine and they pet their cats and they, and they make decisions, you know,

01:23:16.260 collectively. Everything is, is, is, is by committee and, uh, you know, if you

01:23:22.460 want to do something with her, you know, it has to be, it has to get the

01:23:26.940 seals of approval of all her friends and family. And it's, it's, it's just so

01:23:30.260 tiring. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's just not worth it. So if he's better off to

01:23:35.020 find a girl without many friends in the first place, you know, I mean, you know,

01:23:39.620 just do what you're going to do anyway. I mean, if you're, if you're successful,

01:23:42.920 competent, hands full, handsome, uh, you know, valuable, you can make it rain.

01:23:48.880 You know how to make money. You can solve problems. You got a good social network,

01:23:52.000 blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. Just do what you're going to fucking do anyway.

01:23:55.680 And she's either going to come along for the ride and be okay with it or she's

01:23:59.080 not. And you have to be okay. If she's not just, just let her go and just

01:24:02.500 fucking replace her. Because if she thinks that she can, the problem is, is most

01:24:06.340 women don't do better, right? Like once they get up around the top sort of thing,

01:24:09.980 like close to the top shelf, they find a guy and then they try to fuck with his

01:24:13.600 life and like manipulate it or make him do things that, you know, he's not doing

01:24:17.760 or make him stop doing things that she wants him to stop doing. And a lot of

01:24:21.040 dorky guys would just be like, well, you know, okay, because I love you and I'll

01:24:23.580 make some concession. It's like every time you make these, you know, these little

01:24:26.840 tiny concessions for, she actually ends up resenting you and punishing you over

01:24:31.960 time. But most guys don't see it until after the fact, until they listen to

01:24:36.140 podcasts like this, or they read like, you know, books that I've written and, you

01:24:39.780 know, stuff like that. And it's like, it's, it's not that complex, right? Like

01:24:43.400 if you really see women for who they are, not what you want them to be, which

01:24:49.760 is what most people have this fucking illusion in their head about, you know,

01:24:52.540 the sugar and spice and all things nice. Yeah. Go sit in family court for an

01:24:55.780 afternoon. And you tell me if women are sugar and spice and all things nice,

01:24:58.820 but these guys, they just don't understand, man. They just don't understand.

01:25:02.720 No, the thing about women is that it's very counterintuitive. Like what we've, what

01:25:06.460 we're being taught about women, whether directly or indirectly in the movies and

01:25:10.580 in pop culture is, it's very different from how women actually operate and in

01:25:15.860 the real world. That's why it's very confusing for these men. And, um, the thing

01:25:21.800 is that with women, the less you do what they want you to do, the more they like

01:25:26.700 you. It's very counterintuitive. And most guys don't understand this for a

01:25:31.460 while. Yeah. And if you understand this, then you will know that, um, you will know

01:25:37.940 that it's actually a win-win thing. You can actually do less shit and she will

01:25:41.500 even like you more. Yeah. You know, if you, if you do what she wants, first of all,

01:25:45.320 it takes time, effort and money, and then she'll like you even less. It's a loose,

01:25:49.160 loose situation. So why would you do it? But, uh, you know, a lot of guys don't know

01:25:52.740 this. How do you, how do you balance what you give women in your life over a long-term

01:25:57.840 basis so that it's not giving them too much of doing what they want, but you

01:26:01.760 give them enough that it keeps them in your frame?

01:26:06.440 Well, I mean, right, right, right. We like to act all hard and alpha all the time,

01:26:11.620 but when it comes down to it, you want to retain a woman over the longer term, you

01:26:15.440 have to give some concessions. Um, just give me like a couple of like seconds. I

01:26:21.540 need to get the, uh, the plug from my laptop cause running low on battery.

01:26:24.260 Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. That's fine. Yeah. I'll, I'll,

01:26:27.840 you know, I'll just sort of, uh, soapbox it for a little bit while he gets his, uh, AC

01:26:31.900 cord. Um, so yeah, you will have to give women some stuff and you will have to placate

01:26:40.840 some of their, uh, itches. But I mean, like at the end of the day, guys, you know, I keep

01:26:45.720 telling you this is if you are on the top shelf, you can give her less of what she

01:26:50.140 wants and more of, and give yourself more of what you want. And she's not always going

01:26:55.360 to like it. She might protest over it, but she's still there. Right. It's not

01:27:00.220 like you're doing anything to hurt her. You're not harming her. You're not putting

01:27:03.060 her health at risk. You're not doing anything physically like, you know, to harm

01:27:07.120 her or anything. You're, you're the man you're supposed to leave your lead. You're

01:27:11.640 supposed to be in the driver's seat. You're supposed to fucking make the

01:27:13.900 decisions. Women don't make very good decisions. You're the one that needs to make

01:27:17.300 the decisions, right? It's, it's fathers and older brothers historically that have,

01:27:21.220 that have led, you know, the sisters and daughters and daughters in their lives.

01:27:25.600 And when you leave a woman to her own fucking devices, like this chick, this Ukrainian

01:27:30.360 chick, you know, recently that was on the bus that sat in front of that, you know, career

01:27:33.880 criminal, right? Nobody told her, don't sit in front of somebody that looks like a career

01:27:37.520 criminal, right? She just did it because that's what women do. They just like drink the Kool-Aid

01:27:42.060 of like liberal, uh, nonsense, just accept everything. Black lives matter, blah, blah, blah.

01:27:47.260 They don't like, you have to lead them. Like you have to be able to say no to them. Sorry

01:27:50.800 to interrupt. Cause I just kind of went off a rant over there when you got your plug,

01:27:53.340 but go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. No, the thing about concessions is that you have to have hard rules

01:27:57.520 for yourself. So there, you have to know in your mind what you're never, ever conceding

01:28:01.340 no matter what. So for me, it's stuff like marriage, cohabitation, um, combining finances,

01:28:07.940 stuff like that. That's never going to happen. So everything else I'm open to making it

01:28:13.800 happen for her. For example, um, um, so I have a longer term girlfriend right now and

01:28:19.500 she is, she likes to travel and a lot of guys think that, oh, traveling is gay, traveling

01:28:24.880 is feminine, whatever. Um, I make it happen for her because, you know, she makes a lot of

01:28:28.780 things happen for me and, um, it's, it's a give and take, you know, I can reward good

01:28:33.280 behavior. Right, right. I reward good behavior. Exactly. So, um, give me a second. Yeah, go

01:28:42.020 ahead. So you have to know what you are able to concede. So for example, another example

01:28:51.640 would be, um, you can provide for her. I don't think that is, uh, wrong or, or forbidden

01:28:58.560 per se. You just don't want to provide for her like in a legal sense, like under a marriage.

01:29:05.120 So if you want to, I guess if, if you want to make life easier for her, you, she, you want

01:29:10.100 her to be your, your stay at home, whatever. Um, or you, you know, you can make life easier

01:29:15.240 for her. That's okay because that's conditional and you can cut that off at any time. Um, so

01:29:20.020 it really depends, you know, some, for, for some guys, another concession would be like

01:29:24.220 they would act as their husbands when they go meet her friends and family so that, you

01:29:30.000 know, you can help her to save face. You can give her what she wants without actually

01:29:34.620 giving her what she wants. You can give a part of what she wants. So, you know, you,

01:29:38.460 you become her husband, you know, play husband, um, uh, with her friends and family. Nobody

01:29:44.040 really needs to know whether you actually have signed a marital, uh, certificate or

01:29:48.680 not in the background. Yeah. They don't need to know the details. Yeah. They don't need

01:29:51.520 to know the details, but, but, you know, you just got to be careful. You're okay with

01:29:55.060 going to it. So you, you know, you put on your best outfit and you show up and you rub

01:29:59.160 elbows, right? Yep. I mean, so if you want to retain her over the longterm, I mean, I would

01:30:05.460 think that some concessions are necessary. It's like any other relationship, you know,

01:30:09.720 if, if nobody's, if, if the person's not getting anything out of the relationship,

01:30:14.260 they'll probably, you know, disappear sooner or later, no matter how much they like you

01:30:18.380 initially. So all the relationships out there are some exchange of value. Women usually exchange

01:30:23.940 some form of sexual opportunity or like, you know, respect, or they do something useful

01:30:29.860 in your life. Guys usually provide, you know, travel like, you know, for example, like travel

01:30:35.320 is a great example, right? Like if I travel somewhere and I bring in my check, it's, it's

01:30:39.920 first class, the cocoon, I pay for the ticket sort of thing. Um, you know, if she's behaving

01:30:45.340 good, obviously, but, um, yeah, that's how you can give her some of what she wants, but

01:30:49.920 you can't give her everything. Like if you give a woman everything that she wants, you're

01:30:53.160 fucked. You know, you really are. Especially not, not when it comes to the heart rules,

01:30:57.400 like, like marriage cohabitation, that kind of stuff. You can have, you can let her have

01:31:01.620 everything else or, or most of the things else. Uh, but, but the heart things, um, you

01:31:07.200 don't want to be part, to be subject to the jurisdiction of family court, basically.

01:31:12.280 Yeah. Yeah. That's, it's really interesting that you mentioned that. Cause I was listening

01:31:15.500 to you talk about that a couple of minutes ago and I was thinking about a wild case in

01:31:20.060 Canada that, that went super public. I don't know if you ever heard about it, but one of

01:31:23.500 Canada's richest families, I can't remember the guy's name for the life of me right now,

01:31:27.100 but he's like in the top 20 billionaires in Canada. This guy was dating, he's like 50

01:31:31.540 something. You know, he was dating this 40 something year old, you know, single mom.

01:31:34.760 They were both divorced. They never lived together. Um, they would travel a lot together. He would

01:31:40.200 take her up to Muskoka, up to his lighthouse. He would take her down to Miami. Um, they would

01:31:44.460 take a lot of photographs together. They would have dinner together, um, you know, with their

01:31:49.080 kids. Um, and they traveled and they acted that way for a couple of years and she ended up

01:31:54.180 getting him for alimony for 50 grand a month, even though they never got married, even though

01:31:58.980 they never lived together because she was able to prove to the judge that he acted like her

01:32:05.560 husband because he paid for so much travel. Like they would go down to Mexico or some shit.

01:32:11.300 And then there would be a picture on Facebook that she would show with like, I don't know,

01:32:14.860 like, you know, Jay and Nancy or something like that with a big heart in the sand or something

01:32:18.200 like that. And he gave her a promise ring to like, that was the other, other really big mistake

01:32:22.500 that he, uh, did was he gave her a fucking ring. Um, and yeah, she won that case, man,

01:32:27.880 50 grand for like 20 years monthly. Yeah. Yeah. I saw the case. And, um, that's the thing

01:32:32.840 about Canada. It's, it's so dangerous when you, you know, when, when you risk being legally

01:32:41.080 married without actually being legally married. Right. And I don't know what the solution is.

01:32:48.440 Uh, maybe move out of Canada, maybe, um, at least in America, we know which states are

01:32:52.780 common law and which late, which states are not common law. And I think the vast majority

01:32:56.580 of states are not common law. For example, California is not common law. Uh, Texas is

01:33:01.540 though. So, you know, you, you gotta, even if it wasn't a common law state, there's, I still

01:33:06.360 don't see any advantage to living with a chick. If you want GBD out of her over the longterm.

01:33:12.360 Absolutely. Like regardless of the law, uh, if you want to, if you want to keep her interest

01:33:18.160 in you high, um, you shouldn't be living with her. She shouldn't have like, you know,

01:33:23.580 she shouldn't know what you're doing all the time. You know, the moment she knows what

01:33:26.940 you're up to all the time. Uh, that's when the attraction, the mystery drops. Um, and

01:33:32.620 you know, it becomes a chore. It becomes a chore. So do you, do you find with this LTR

01:33:36.840 that you have that you become less interested in other women over time when she's treating

01:33:42.000 you really well, she's respectful, she's useful in your life, or do you still find yourself

01:33:46.420 craving a lot of women on the side? No, no, no. Do you minimize it? Well, first of all,

01:33:52.080 we're, we're not exclusive. So, um, but is she exclusive to you or? I don't know. Like

01:33:59.400 I say, I can't mate guard. Um, there's no rule whatsoever. Um, I think she is. I don't

01:34:06.040 know. It doesn't matter to you. It's not something that crosses your mind. It doesn't really matter

01:34:09.360 because if, if, if I feel that she's not doing it for me anymore, I just cut her off and I

01:34:13.940 just move on with my life. You know, what's so difficult, you know, most guys are ways

01:34:17.560 are like so invested in this. Like I think of her as like a FWB, but a longterm FWB, if

01:34:25.220 that makes sense. And right. But I'm not, I got a conversation with another friend of

01:34:30.180 mine about this. He's like, yeah, I got a longterm plate. Like, what does that mean?

01:34:33.980 He goes, you know, we fucked up. You know, part of it is just guys. These guys are just

01:34:40.300 too prideful to admit that they have a girlfriend because that's a very loaded term. You know,

01:34:46.520 everyone thinks that you're whipped. Everyone thinks that you're a beta. If you admit that

01:34:50.420 you have a girlfriend, but you know, I'm not above using that term. I'll just use the term,

01:34:54.440 you know, girlfriend, but, um, you know, nobody really knows the dynamics between us. That's

01:34:58.400 between me and her. Um, but I mean, like the question I asked you was, do you find yourself

01:35:02.440 less interested in exploring and enjoying variety when things are going really well with her?

01:35:10.680 Even when things are going really well? No, no, no. First of all, um, um, we have an

01:35:18.120 quote unquote open bedroom. So we're swingers and we do stuff. So we're not exactly, um, exclusive.

01:35:27.720 I don't know if she does stuff on her own time. That's her own problem. I don't really care.

01:35:32.440 Um, if she says that she has my baby, the first thing I'll say is, you know, we have to get a

01:35:37.520 paternity test right now because I'm not paying you a single cent for anything unless I'm a hundred

01:35:42.640 percent certain that it's my child. And that's another thing that I find that guys are so

01:35:47.160 too trusting, um, with women about, you know, just because she's your girlfriend or she's your wife.

01:35:53.840 What do you think the rates of paternity fraud are?

01:35:56.060 I don't know. Um, what I do know is that, uh, one out of three tests come back, uh,

01:36:04.860 positive for fraud. So in the general rate, I'm not sure. It could be 3%, 5%. It could be as high

01:36:12.700 as 10%. I really don't know. Um, but that's not when tested. So when there's suspicion, one in three

01:36:18.800 confirms the suspicion is what you're saying. Yes. Yes. One out of three confirms the suspicion.

01:36:24.500 So that's not really that high. Uh, but we don't know how many people actually have suspicions

01:36:31.180 too. You know, like we don't know how often people run these tests, but what I do know personally,

01:36:37.980 if I, if anyone, if any chick comes up to me and says, you know what, I'm, I'm having your baby.

01:36:43.440 I'm like, okay, well let's do it. Yeah. And let's do another one to make sure too. Yeah.

01:36:49.460 Did you ever read sperm wars? Uh, I've heard of the book. Never personally read it yet.

01:36:55.640 I sent you a link to it a couple of months ago. Cause we chatted about it on X. I was just

01:37:00.000 wondering if you read it. Right, right. I, I was posting about another book, uh, back then.

01:37:05.280 Yeah. About why? Yeah. Uh, but I, you know, evil psych is very interesting. It probably explains like

01:37:11.860 most behaviors and women and men as well. Um, so yeah, yeah. You know, I, I really enjoy evil psych.

01:37:20.240 What do you think of this guy's comment? What's this? Yeah. Yo, no, thanks. Just discredited the

01:37:27.500 entire cast. These dudes have zero quality to offer women. No one. That's why I say, you know,

01:37:31.380 like certain things, you know, if you say it, you, you lose your credibility with a certain crowd. Um,

01:37:38.760 you know, I, I don't really care. I just live in my life. You know, um, I guess when you're having

01:37:44.640 me on, you, you know, that I'll probably say certain things that, you know, some of your audience.

01:37:49.420 Yeah. That's why I put you on, man. Cause I wanted to get your live take because your Twitter takes are

01:37:54.000 so good and accurate for the most part. Um, you know, there's very little that I've seen that you've

01:37:59.020 posted that I disagree with and it, and some of it, even, you know, I made a video once on one

01:38:04.780 piece of content that you referenced in my video. Um, I don't know if that drove any follows for you,

01:38:10.220 but yeah, like a lot of the shit that you've, that you've revealed, it's often very uncomfortable

01:38:15.080 for people. Like, you know, you see the guys in the comments are like, yeah, these guys don't know

01:38:18.200 what they're talking about. They have nothing to offer women, blah, blah, blah. Yet women are around us.

01:38:22.140 And it's like, I don't think you understand guys that women aren't who you think they are and what

01:38:28.840 you conventionally think that keeps women interested in you and retains them in your life. Um, in such

01:38:36.340 a way where you can enjoy it because a lot of guys have women in their life that their life just sucks.

01:38:40.720 Right. But it's such a way where you can enjoy your life and they're a benefit. Like they add some

01:38:45.480 value to your life. It's pretty rare. Like most guys aren't able to enjoy that.

01:38:49.320 Yeah. Uh, most, most guys is the other way around. Um, they are adding value to their

01:38:54.620 wife's life. She's getting the benefit. Exactly. Yeah. She's getting the benefit. Yeah. You were,

01:38:59.400 you were talking about humiliation rituals at one point, I think it was tied into marriage

01:39:04.020 or maybe dating. Can you explain what you meant by that? So, so I've, I've explained my dating

01:39:10.800 history of whatever you want to call it, my, my hookup history. Um, and I, I, I realized pretty

01:39:16.720 early in life that when a girl likes you, she will waive the interview. What a date is, is an HR

01:39:22.220 interview. And if they really like you, they will just waive the interview and they get down to it

01:39:27.100 right away. So the thing is that if she makes it a hard requirement that she has to interview you,

01:39:32.900 um, then the thing is that she doesn't really like you. She doesn't really like you that much.

01:39:38.840 But the thing is that most guys don't even know if she would waive the interview or not because

01:39:43.080 they never go for the kill. They never ask her to come over right away. If you don't ask her to come

01:39:46.660 over right away, how would you know if she would have waived the interview? So you ask her to come

01:39:51.700 over right away. If she says yes, great. If she doesn't say yes, then I mean, you know where you

01:39:57.400 stand. I mean, she has revealed her cards. She is either looking for a free meal, free drinks,

01:40:02.540 free validation, or she doesn't like you that much. And she wants to put you through this whole

01:40:07.400 gauntlet of hoops that she wants you to jump through to prove yourself to her. And that's

01:40:13.720 what's humiliating about it. What's humiliating about it is that she has different pricing models

01:40:19.180 for different men, like different men. Oh, for you, free. For you, oh, three dates first. You know,

01:40:23.400 for you, maybe 10 dates and maybe I'll give you a peck and a chick. You know what I mean? And that's

01:40:27.060 what's humiliating about it. It's that she has this price differentiation in her mind. Obviously,

01:40:32.120 women will never admit that, but it's true. It's like, it's like if you're at a shoe store

01:40:36.520 and you're queuing up for shoes and the guy in front of you gets shoes for free,

01:40:40.620 the other guy gets it for free too. Oh, the other guy gets like a 90% discount. And then

01:40:44.380 when it comes to your turn to pay, she said, oh, for you, it's $5,000. I mean, like, how

01:40:49.260 would you feel? I mean, when you know that the three person in front of you got it for

01:40:53.100 free or cheap, you know? So that's what's humiliating about it because you didn't, I guess,

01:40:59.360 make the cut to get the free offer.

01:41:02.080 Yeah. Like, I'm just wondering what, what percentage of women or, or how many women

01:41:07.360 lose out on an opportunity to be with a really solid dude that's got his life together because

01:41:14.340 they've been told by, I don't know, fucking, uh, sex in the city, their friends, some magazine

01:41:20.660 article they read in Cosmo that said, or read a book like why men love bitches or something like

01:41:26.480 that. You know, some other junk fucking, you know, book like that, where it tells them you got to do

01:41:30.560 this and you got to do this and you got to make them jump through that hoop and you can't sleep

01:41:33.320 right until the third or fourth date or don't do this until he buys you a handbag. Like there's

01:41:37.120 this entire genre of like luxury hoes online, like even on YouTube where they teach women how to

01:41:44.960 track shit for men before they give anything to them. Have you heard of the notion of like pay pigs?

01:41:50.680 Uh, I think I know what they are.

01:41:53.580 Pay pigs is wild, man. Somebody sent me this video the other day where this, where this girl was

01:41:57.320 explaining online how to lock down pay pigs. And basically it's these young girls that get guys

01:42:04.420 to give them money. They don't even sleep with them. They just extract financial resources out

01:42:10.600 of guys without giving them anything. That's kind of a very extreme example.

01:42:14.100 But what's in it for the guy?

01:42:15.460 Nothing except for giving them money and feeling quote unquote good about giving them money, which

01:42:20.160 is absolutely ridiculous. Like these guys are all simps, obviously. Like there's enough people that

01:42:24.560 are paying Sophie Rain $43 million a year. Like the entire NBA payroll is less than what Sophie

01:42:31.120 Rain made last year on OnlyFans. Like that's how many simps there are out there. And most of these

01:42:35.480 simps, by the way, they're all married. Like there's a lot of married guys out there that are simping

01:42:39.240 for women that will give them no sexual intimacy whatsoever. Breadcrumbs if they're lucky, but they

01:42:46.260 go and send financial resources to these checks.

01:42:48.400 I mean, those guys are, I mean, married guys are, are used to it, right? They're used to paying the

01:42:53.060 bills without getting much sex in return.

01:42:54.960 Yeah. They're used to it in the marriage. So it's like, you know, they just go for it. But

01:42:57.840 yeah, I was just like, how many women are losing out on the opportunity of, of actually going out

01:43:03.000 with a good guy that has his shit together because they want them to jump through hoops and guys like

01:43:07.820 you're just like, no.

01:43:08.460 Because if, if these girls have these hoops set up and they are, they have all these hard

01:43:12.740 rules, uh, you, you really only are going to filter in like the simpiest of simps, like

01:43:18.160 the lowest quality, um, you know, bottom of the barrel kind of guys. So I don't know if

01:43:24.560 they know what they're doing because they're not only missing out on top guys, they're missing

01:43:28.460 out on most guys period because most guys can, can sniff it when they're being, um, you know,

01:43:35.400 when they're being put through some kind of gauntlet of hoops and no, no guys likes to,

01:43:40.100 to, to have to earn more for something they gave away for free 20 minutes until a foam

01:43:45.840 can and especially information is online these days. It's easily accessible guys. Like I

01:43:52.300 said, I've, I said it recently that, that even the beta guys have lost all interest in

01:43:56.620 being quote unquote, the cleanup guys, because they see how these girls go out there and give

01:44:01.240 it for free to these men in their prime. And then once they're past their prime,

01:44:05.400 they charge an arm and a leg for whatever's left, like for sloppy seconds, sloppy thirds.

01:44:13.740 And a lot of these guys can't do it anymore. Like they could do it before when they didn't

01:44:18.980 know what was going on. But now that they've known, they, they know that everything is that's,

01:44:24.160 that's going on in the earlier part of her life, then they really don't want to, you know,

01:44:28.940 have anything to do with the later part of her life. And I, I'm, I think we are starting

01:44:33.320 to see this shift in society. Like you say, like, like the dating is a humiliation ritual

01:44:40.880 thing. It's not just a me thing. Like a lot of guys see it that way too, because they know

01:44:44.840 that the same, the very same goal that they're asking out on a proper date, she has definitely

01:44:49.000 gone over to a guy's house without a date and just fucked her. So why am I doing this whole

01:44:55.700 dating thing? And they know, they know, those guys know. So they, they've lost their motivation

01:45:01.340 to want to ask a girl out on a date. Yeah. That's why girls these days are complaining

01:45:05.320 online on TikTok about not, not having dinner dates, not being, you know, you got to take

01:45:10.800 me out on a proper date. That's the bare minimum. Why are you guys so low effort? I mean, like,

01:45:16.080 why do you think, you know, if it worked, we would have done it more. If it didn't work,

01:45:19.880 why would we keep doing it?

01:45:20.880 Yeah. My favorite is the women that go on TikTok and they, and they have a full like

01:45:24.840 three minute meltdown divulging every retarded choice they ever made. Plus all their bad

01:45:32.680 takes on everything. It's just, and they document it. It's like, it's, it's, it's so funny to

01:45:36.880 me because like the internet never forgets there's way back machines. You can go find these things

01:45:40.960 like at any point given, you know, given history, but there's a lot of these women that are like

01:45:44.880 documenting their stupid life choices when it comes to romance and men. And it's just

01:45:50.860 like, it's just like a stack of, of, of one dumb choice after the other. And they,

01:45:55.440 they don't listen. Like they don't want to hear it. The problem is, is that women don't listen.

01:45:58.780 I find anyway, until they're like definitely post wall, like late thirties, forties.

01:46:04.640 Sometimes even then they don't come to the acknowledgement. Like you've heard of the wall,

01:46:08.500 obviously, right? Yep. Yep. Yeah. So I have this theory that women hit the wall twice. So

01:46:12.600 they obviously hit it at like 22, 23 when their SMB starts to go on the decline,

01:46:16.820 universally accepted. There's really not a, not a lot of debate on it, but they don't

01:46:20.560 acknowledge that they're less valuable as time goes on. Usually until they come to the realization,

01:46:27.600 which is in their late thirties or forties. And they're like, Oh, I, at 43, I can't really

01:46:33.460 compete with the 23 year old anymore. Right. And it's, and it's a cry in shame because if

01:46:38.560 they understood that they could prioritize, uh, you leveraging their, their beauty and more of

01:46:48.940 their purity at a younger age, rather than wasting it, climbing corporate ladders, drinking, you know,

01:46:55.760 Kool-Aid on feminism and banging through, you know, the world as they travel sort of thing,

01:47:01.020 they could probably get a lot more of what they want, but they never want to hear it until it's too

01:47:04.600 late. Like when you're 43 and your eggs are all dried up and there's nothing else going on and

01:47:08.200 you got a degree and you've been through fucking, you know, 200 dicks or whatever. It's like,

01:47:12.920 you know, your list of demands needs to kind of relax a little bit, if you know what I'm saying.

01:47:17.340 Yep. But, um, you know, a lot of these chicks, uh, I guess they're, they're being taught that,

01:47:23.420 you know, you can't rely on a man that, you know, a man is going to leave you high and dry.

01:47:27.440 In most cases it's actually true, right? In most cases it's, it's, it's actually true. But if women

01:47:33.740 behave properly, I think men are more than willing to look after them. Sure, sure, sure. Um, but yeah,

01:47:43.240 you know, these women, they like to look at these outlier cases where, you know, they have a friend

01:47:49.260 who slept around, who had fun, but then later he found a husband and then they have kids as well.

01:47:53.980 So they want that. They want, you know, they want to fulfill both sides of their dual mating strategy

01:48:00.860 to the fullest. But most of the time they only got the alpha fucks part, but they, they don't have

01:48:05.340 the beta fucks part later on because they couldn't find a guy to marry because guys are getting smarter

01:48:10.380 too. Guys are not stupid, you know, guys see what's going on in the world. And, um, and like I say,

01:48:16.660 you know, guys just don't really want to do that anymore. I think, you know, guys are happy

01:48:21.700 with their hobbies, living alone and just dating casually the whole, um, you know, serious dating

01:48:28.800 thing, you know, you sign a document and all that. It's a lot of guys are afraid of it because,

01:48:34.060 you know, it's a generational thing too, because their parents, they see, they saw their uncles,

01:48:38.200 their older siblings, their older brothers, uh, get put through the ringer and they want to try

01:48:42.440 to avoid that. And I say, good for them. Good for them. You know, um, women should be denied

01:48:48.360 marriage as much as possible. If all of us band together and deny women marriage, I think

01:48:54.500 they will come to the table. No, not come to the table. They'll just naturally behave better.

01:48:59.640 Basically. That's yeah. That's like the, I don't know if it's an incel wet dream or a black pill sort

01:49:05.560 of wet dream. It's like, you know, if we collectively deny women what they're wanting them, then they'll,

01:49:12.100 then they'll come around and they'll behave. Yeah. But that's, you know, it's wishful thinking. It's not

01:49:15.660 going to happen, but we're just speaking as a hypothetical. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Um, all

01:49:21.660 right. Well, thanks for your time, Jay. Let me just grab the super chat real quick before we wrap

01:49:24.760 up. Hey, Rich, how often you go to Tale of the Dragon in Maryville, Tennessee? Um, maybe once a

01:49:30.280 year or something like that. I might be down there again at the end of September. I'm not exactly sure,

01:49:33.800 but, um, yeah, it's a good time. Jay, um, shout out, where can everybody find you? Where, where do you

01:49:39.540 want them to, uh, check out your newsletter or whatever else you want? Uh, I would say, uh, join

01:49:44.760 my newsletter. I write a weekly newsletter at, uh, the, uh, address is there. It's zilvy.com,

01:49:49.520 the rail jaber join. Uh, definitely follow me on X, um, the rail jaber, um, on X. Yep. Yeah,

01:49:57.780 there you go. Um, check him out guys. He's definitely entertained me and we've engaged on a lot of

01:50:03.860 topics. Um, and you know, sometimes I actually find source material for content for YouTube videos

01:50:08.500 in my car. So if you like my shit, um, you know, he's, you got kind of a taste of who he's all

01:50:13.480 about. Um, at the very least, I promise that you'll be entertained. You may not agree with

01:50:18.260 everything, but at least you'll, it'll give you some food for thought beyond what I've provided

01:50:22.840 for you as well. So, um, thanks for tuning in today, Jay. Appreciate you being around. Just stick

01:50:28.000 around for just one minute. Um, I'm going to play the outro reel and we'll chop it up offline in

01:50:31.460 per second. All right, guys, if you enjoyed that podcast, make sure you visit my website at

01:50:36.000 richcooper.ca to learn more about my courses, my book, the unplugged alpha community, or booking

01:50:42.560 me for private coaching. Also, if you are a Canadian with $15,000 or more of credit card

01:50:47.360 debt and what you are doing right now, isn't paying off the balances, then visit total debt

01:50:52.500 freedom.ca and hit get a free quote to see if you qualify to settle your credit card debt

01:50:58.440 for less than you owe today over the next 48 months. Make sure you check out the top pin

01:51:02.600 comment on YouTube for all the links mentioned during the show. Peace.

Playing to Win - September 17, 2025

PTW_105_F＊uk Boy Exposes The Truth About Woman

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