Playing to Win - PTW 106 Ryan Bensen

00:00:00.000 all right guys welcome to another episode of playing to win it's been a minute before we've

00:00:05.720 done when i think the last one that really hit you guys uh hard was the one with jay bear who

00:00:10.380 was the guy that uh shared some interesting insights in his career indulging in women we've

00:00:15.460 got ryan benson today who uh spoke at my forum conference a couple weeks ago and he well i think

00:00:24.200 that you should probably do the intro for yourself ryan because you've got a lot of little letters

00:00:27.380 after your name and you've got a lot of degrees and a lot of experience um so you deal with people

00:00:33.300 that are untying the knot and you advocate for one side to ensure that they retain as much money as

00:00:40.920 possible or extract as much money as possible from the other party um what are your uh let's start

00:00:50.040 with how you got into this right because i mean you're mostly a forensic accountant yes that's how

00:00:55.440 you started i started um as a normal accountant doing doing audits and i was always between law

00:01:01.580 and i was between accounting or law accounting a law and i had to figure that out um for myself

00:01:06.640 and picked accounting because i thought it was more um more diverse more interesting and gave me more

00:01:12.220 opportunity and what happened over time is that i became specialized in forensic accounting i worked

00:01:18.160 for several different forensic accounting firms and got into the space of high net worth and ultra high

00:01:23.920 net worth divorces where you are doing a deep sort of dive into the financials you're looking for

00:01:30.100 hidden assets you're doing that sort of thing and testifying in court was where i got my start

00:01:35.840 and i started testifying in court and over time i sort of developed a reputation in these cases and

00:01:43.280 now get hired on as a consultant to run high net worth and ultra high net worth cases from behind the

00:01:49.940 scenes either for women who are looking for hidden assets looking for money or for men who are trying

00:01:55.360 to protect themselves and stay rich um can you define forensic accounting for viewers just so they

00:02:01.400 have some clarity on that background yeah so in in forensic accounting what you're doing is that

00:02:06.020 you're going through finances you're going through bank statements going through credit card statements

00:02:10.700 income tax returns whatever the case may be and you're using this information and going to court for it

00:02:17.440 that's the definition of forensic so i would go to court and appear as an expert witness either

00:02:22.480 as a business valuator or an expert in somebody who develops income for the purposes of alimony

00:02:28.420 spousal support child support etc right and that's used in um business management deals a lot of times

00:02:36.180 with divorce it seems to come up quite a bit because if you have a a business and you're an entrepreneur

00:02:41.020 there's a little bit of uncertainty around the valuation of it so you kind of have to dig through the layers

00:02:45.820 of ledgers and tables and all this sort of stuff to figure out what's what right yeah unfortunately

00:02:51.640 there's a lot of ambiguity there and you know appearing as an expert you try to drive down the

00:02:56.480 middle and find something that's reasonable right and and find something that a judge will believe you on

00:03:01.740 who's busy and tired and chronically stressed and they just want to know what is the company worth

00:03:07.340 now from a litigation consulting perspective especially for men it's a matter of how do i talk to business

00:03:13.660 evaluators like myself and how do i convey the truth of what's happening behind my business so

00:03:19.420 i'm not saying the wrong thing and then that wrong thing is going to get used against me to bump up the

00:03:24.160 valuation beyond what would be otherwise reasonable okay um how long have you been doing this with uh

00:03:30.720 different divorce cases i've been doing it for almost 15 years now it's been a long ride you've got

00:03:37.280 some interesting stories which you guys are going to hear on this show uh you should also know that

00:03:41.540 the link for ryan's book is in the description of the video uh how to get rich uh when you're

00:03:46.860 getting divorced uh you can find it on it actually you know what dude it's actually hard to find an

00:03:50.760 amazon because i was looking for the link to put it in the description and searching your name or the

00:03:54.960 title amazon doesn't even present it to you so like the link will work but you might have a hard time

00:04:00.120 if you're searching for it i'm not sure if that's uh you know maybe a matrix attack yeah yeah it must be

00:04:06.240 it must be a matrix attack yeah so i think i heard you say that you started out mostly representing

00:04:13.260 women that were looking for assets from men that they were divorcing that's right mostly represent

00:04:18.920 women or is it either side now or is it men like you know it does depend i find in the expert space

00:04:26.120 women are more likely to go and find someone like me um and in that case i'd be going to court and

00:04:31.440 testifying in litigation consulting specifically i've been swinging it more towards men because i

00:04:37.780 find that women going through divorce they have a lot of resources right they have the ability and

00:04:43.640 they often take this this sort of abundance of resources um for their benefits so they'll hire a

00:04:50.300 divorce attorney they'll hire a divorce coach they'll hire evaluators income people things to help them

00:04:56.140 through the process but for men they'll be operating as sometimes they'll be self-represented or pro se

00:05:02.200 filers as it's called in the u.s and they need somebody to look at the strategy behind the case

00:05:06.800 from a high level and understand what's going on and and how to play this game because it's very very

00:05:11.240 emotional and i focus with men now to get them emotionally regulated so they understand how to play this

00:05:19.080 game better and win as a result um i'm assuming that the time for men to hire you is probably

00:05:28.280 before they get married or during the prenup stage or maybe the post-nup stage sort of thing and for

00:05:33.720 women it's it's probably during the divorces when they're looking for your help uh men can hire me at

00:05:39.540 any point to help get their finances arranged i'm always an advocate if you go into marriage that you

00:05:45.100 should be understanding what that means understanding the commitment that you're making and also doing

00:05:50.860 things like setting up a prenup or setting up a post-nup where you can protect yourself and protect

00:05:56.780 some of your assets in exchange for giving certainty now going through the divorce men get a lot of benefit

00:06:02.700 working with me because it's a highly emotionally dysregulated system and having somebody look at their

00:06:09.620 finances from a high level look at what's happening from a high level because i've worked through these

00:06:14.620 cases you know hundreds thousands of times and telling them here's what you need to be conveying

00:06:20.540 to evaluator here's what you need to be conveying to your ex-wife to get the job done because you need

00:06:26.940 to start re-establishing trust and respect in this new relationship to get her into a position where she's

00:06:33.660 willing to settle for something that might be a little bit less than what she wants okay um is there a period

00:06:41.660 of time that a man needs to consider when he's entering a contract like marriage that invites

00:06:49.420 the state into your house which will ultimately govern what happens to your assets your future

00:06:55.340 wealth that you create your access to your kids is there amount of like um there was a notion of

00:07:01.740 fraudulent conveyance i'm guessing that you're familiar with that when it comes to law outside of

00:07:05.740 family to some extent yes yeah so i mean with like certain things like from where i came from with

00:07:13.020 uh credit card debt uh the period of fraudulent conveyance was like two years and so for those guys

00:07:19.900 watching so if you were to go and get a whole bunch of credit cards uh rack them all up and then

00:07:25.020 transfer the house into your wife's name um and then go file for bankruptcy um the the creditors could take

00:07:32.700 you to court and turn back the clock on that and and and force you back on the title and then the

00:07:37.740 money back to the creditors through a sequence of legal chain of events um is there something similar

00:07:43.580 to that when it comes to family law when you get divorced like is there a certain period of time

00:07:47.180 that you have to make all these i mean you talk about in a lot of the stories in the book but is

00:07:51.180 there like a certain period of time that a guy has to sort of prepare to maybe delay the divorce event

00:07:56.140 is it two years is it five years like what's generally accepted when it comes to that like

00:08:00.140 you just can't go and hide from from people right yeah it makes it it makes it a lot trickier with

00:08:05.340 divorce um in in many jurisdictions in the us and in canada especially the period of time is basically

00:08:13.100 unlimited right so if it's found that yeah unfortunately if it's been found that you've

00:08:18.700 been hiding something or like you didn't uh let's say you had a really substantial real estate asset or

00:08:24.700 something like that if it's found later the issue is is that the court can basically unwind the entire

00:08:31.180 divorce and you go through the process again which presents a lot of problems now in some jurisdictions

00:08:37.740 in the us there is limitations or there are limitations so it might be seven years or ten years

00:08:42.700 it's going to depend on the state specifically yeah but for men who are planning to leave a marriage

00:08:49.580 i would suggest that anything that you're doing to manage your income uh and manage expectations

00:08:58.540 you'd want to be looking at it basically three to five years in advance because if your wife goes

00:09:04.780 through and hires a business evaluator or an income assessment which if you own a business the chances are

00:09:10.860 fairly high of this the court is going to look for the finances three to five years back which means

00:09:16.460 if something changes around the date of separation or the date that the the divorce is filed and your

00:09:22.860 income substantially changes it's really easy for someone like me to spot that because i'm going to

00:09:27.980 line up all your all your income uh statements i'm going to line up your tax returns and everything

00:09:32.940 look at and go ah there's the change i know what's happening now and i can dig deeper into that

00:09:39.820 it sounded by when i listened to your book that most of the um clients that you deal with tend to be

00:09:45.580 self-employed like not a working professional like a doctor or something like that it sounds like

00:09:51.020 there's a lot of business that's involved with what you're doing is that the is that the case for

00:09:55.740 you or was that just the stories that stood out the most those are the stories that stood out the

00:10:00.220 most i mean i've worked with doctors and dentists and i've even worked with lawyers going through this

00:10:05.100 process so it it really depends on a case-by-case basis um the thing with something like a medical

00:10:10.940 practice or a law practice or something like that there's a substantial amount of what's called

00:10:17.580 personal goodwill attached to the business so the business itself without say your doctor isn't really

00:10:24.540 worth that much money so the stakes are a bit lower um so from a book writing perspective it's not as

00:10:31.660 interesting as when you're talking about a real business like a manufacturing company or something like

00:10:36.220 that where you run into valuations of 10 20 50 million dollars and there's a lot of gray area

00:10:43.340 ambiguity there um trying to figure out what the correct number is is there a um line in the sand that

00:10:51.340 you would generally recommend people contemplate when it comes to maybe their wealth their assets

00:10:56.620 or net worth their future income for things like prenups and then things for the sort of strategies that

00:11:02.460 you offer to um move assets around and hold codes and all these sort of like creative you know

00:11:10.780 accounting structures that exist out there and offshores and stuff like that like does somebody

00:11:15.260 have to have a certain amount of money to contemplate a prenup and then a certain amount of money to

00:11:19.260 contemplate the kind of services that you offer i mean you do mention high net worth ultra high net worth

00:11:24.540 type of uh clientele yeah i mean for for a general prenup um a lot of people get into marriage

00:11:31.740 without really considering what's happening downstream right so if you own a business and

00:11:36.540 you're self-employed i would recommend if you're getting into a marriage you would definitely want to

00:11:41.500 have a prenup irrespective of what that business is and irrespective of what the technical valuation

00:11:47.260 of that company would be at that time and in that prenup you'd want to spell out that this is

00:11:52.300 something that's independent from the marriage and isn't going to be included in the uh you know marital

00:11:58.140 assets so to speak right so it's not something that's going to be divided the growth of it down

00:12:02.220 the road now if that business changes so let's say you go through and you get married and the

00:12:07.900 business changes and you're doing all this other stuff you would want to be updating this with

00:12:13.100 post-nuptial agreements every time that there's a really substantial change to ensure that you're

00:12:17.660 protected right to ensure that your assets are protected and to ensure that there's a systematic

00:12:22.540 way to go through a divorce that eliminates as much ambiguity in that process as possible

00:12:29.660 so when there's changes and you're already married how do you approach your wife and basically say

00:12:35.340 i love you but i want to make sure i don't get fucked if i'm not how does that conversation usually get

00:12:42.860 approached that's a great question and i recommend to guys to look at it from her perspective right so

00:12:49.340 what your wife is going to be concerned about if there is going to be a divorce down the road is

00:12:57.180 any issues to do with the children and specifically is she going to be taken care of right and i would

00:13:04.300 recommend approaching it from that vector of i want to make sure that you're taken care of i want to make

00:13:09.100 sure that you have certainty over your future if anything goes wrong right if you decide that i snore

00:13:15.180 too much or i leave my socks on the floor too often you can leave and know that you're going to be

00:13:20.060 taken care of and you're going to have you know a really simple divorce process we're going to get

00:13:25.180 along great as co-parents of the children and hey you can have the house you can you know here's how

00:13:30.780 we're going to figure out my income this is how alimony is going to be calculated child support will be

00:13:35.980 based on that and i'm going to make sure that my business is protected so i have the ability to pay

00:13:41.020 these things for you you said something interesting during your talk about um money versus lifestyle as

00:13:49.020 women interpret it um for those of you watching that were there you already know what i'm about to

00:13:55.260 get to but um if you're already in my communities you'll you'll see all of these recordings on the uh

00:14:03.260 the various school communities you can get in there through the qr code in the top left of the screen but

00:14:07.820 you said something along the lines of women don't really women aren't really looking for money

00:14:12.780 they're looking for lifestyles so the actual finance like the number on a piece of paper isn't

00:14:17.500 generally what matters it was the lifestyle that they are going to live post-divorce can you explain

00:14:22.220 what that means yeah correct so one of the one of the biggest stumbling blocks in sitting through

00:14:27.740 a mediation right or sitting through um like collaborative family law where everybody's trying to figure out

00:14:33.660 how do we make this deal work in a way that is good for everybody or at least not shitty for

00:14:38.700 everybody one of the biggest stumbling blocks is that for the most part women don't inherently speak

00:14:45.900 the language of money in the same way that we do right so if i say to you a hundred thousand dollars

00:14:53.100 you can convert that into what i can spend you know every single year right and say i can afford this

00:14:59.900 this this this this this it's really simple women don't have that capacity to the same extent which

00:15:05.740 is why i recommend in mediations and this has been extraordinarily successful in my experience

00:15:12.060 go through the money which is important and then say here's what this money can afford you

00:15:16.860 on an annual basis so the house is going to get taken care of you're going to have a car you're going to

00:15:21.820 have the ability to go to yoga right all these things are taken care of so she's checking off in the

00:15:27.340 back of her head and going okay i can still do this i can still do this i can still do that

00:15:31.420 the kids will be fine i have money for food etc and in those cases women are more willing to accept

00:15:39.420 a settlement because they actually understand what it means right it's a matter of

00:15:44.540 just conveying the difference between money and lifestyle and women really care heavily about

00:15:49.980 the lifestyle that they're going to be afforded and not so much the dollar amount of money that

00:15:54.300 they're going to receive yeah yeah i mean you see that's how women generally use social media like

00:15:59.740 on instagram is they'll they'll showcase lifestyle to the world i remember i had a

00:16:05.100 consult with a guy a couple weeks ago extremely wealthy businessman in uh dubai who had a beautiful

00:16:11.100 girlfriend um he was you know he was a good looking guy but he wasn't you know like a 10 out of 10

00:16:16.540 sort of dude but he had a beautiful girlfriend and her entire social media feed when he showed it to me

00:16:21.500 was just lifestyle photographs travel cool look at me on this rooftop here i am in front of a nice

00:16:26.780 plate of food in an expensive restaurant standing with a glass of whatever and uh you know that's

00:16:31.740 how women sort of hold themselves out of the world and it's it's really interesting you know i i um i was

00:16:36.860 on a phone call once ryan and i was talking to a buddy of mine who um was uh so he's an advisor to

00:16:43.900 a billionaire so he's a medical medical advisor to a billionaire and this guy had a party so he had

00:16:48.300 willie nelson over for this birthday party he's telling me about the birthday party and you know

00:16:52.700 how it all went and i you know i got off the phone and you know my girl's listening from the other room

00:16:56.620 and i you know i got the phone i said wow you know it's first time i've realized that i'm arm's

00:17:00.540 length from a billionaire and she interpreted that as i'm a stone's throw from becoming a billionaire

00:17:07.820 myself right um they just don't understand like the notion of my like i do well i've got a nice house

00:17:14.780 i drive nice cars you know sort of thing uh you know i travel when i want sort of thing but but

00:17:19.340 the interpretation of like dollar value for women doesn't really seem to equate it's like

00:17:24.940 lifestyle they don't really have the ability to connect those things which was something that i

00:17:28.620 sort of tripped on so when you said that during the talk that you know i made a mental note on

00:17:32.860 that because i thought that was a really interesting point is that you sell the lifestyle to her so it's

00:17:36.060 like you're gonna have the house you're gonna have a range rover you're gonna be able to go to

00:17:39.180 hot yoga you're gonna be able to go out you know with your girls and do the you know the book club

00:17:42.780 meetings and stuff like that um so that's a really good point too i want to get to some of the stories

00:17:47.420 because you told some great stories in your book and also at the conference um what are the ones that

00:17:53.500 usually give guys the best lessons you know we've got um you know say another 45 minutes or so so i

00:17:59.260 want to use the time as best as possible to sort of you know storytelling works great i think so i

00:18:03.660 want to hear some of those for the audience right now sure um one of the best one of the best

00:18:08.620 lessons that you can take out of the book one of the best lessons that you can take out of um you

00:18:14.300 know if you are going through this process or you're considering going through this process is

00:18:19.500 realizing that uh what you say and what you do are very different things right and maintaining

00:18:26.620 emotional sort of regulation self-regulation through this process is critically important

00:18:31.740 and realizing that optics are crucial right and i had this in i described it in the book and the

00:18:40.380 summary essentially goes like this i was dealing with a man who was facing a lot of unsubstantiated

00:18:47.020 and what they turned out to be false allegations of misconduct right and let's say just for the purpose of

00:18:55.260 this story it has to deal with abusive behavior let's say it's physical or psychological or emotional

00:19:01.900 abuse whatever you want to call it now men who get put into this position are often sad right and

00:19:10.060 they're angry because they feel like it's unfair um however i have to work with men and i've worked

00:19:16.380 with this man in particular going through the process to realize that hey if you are accused of

00:19:23.260 psychological abuse or emotional abuse because you have anger issues or you're a sociopath you're

00:19:27.900 a narcissist whatever right whatever gets thrown out because there's always a million different things

00:19:32.780 acting like one isn't going to help you so in this case it was a matter of getting his frame of what

00:19:41.020 happened conveyed through to the judge effectively which meant not being emotionally reactive to her

00:19:49.020 allegations when she was talking about it on the stand not being emotionally activated and reactive

00:19:55.180 when these allegations were even placed and instead just focusing on what the real truth is and how

00:20:02.300 things were and getting the documentation in place so he could go through everything when he was on the

00:20:07.740 stand later and say well that's not what happened here's actually the circumstances of what happened

00:20:13.180 rather than being angry and combative and taking it out on the lawyer taking it out on her while sitting

00:20:20.140 there on the stand and the judge is watching this and going well he sure is acting like an ass now

00:20:26.380 chances are she's probably somewhat correct so i'm going to lean in her direction because he's acting

00:20:31.580 like an asshole now right um so that was one of the one of the most important things for men going

00:20:38.380 through divorce is just to stay calm stay cool is it is it guys or gals that get away more with losing

00:20:46.300 their cool when it goes through going to the divorce machine overwhelmingly women get away with it more

00:20:53.340 emotional dysregulation i'm going to say is almost expected when going to the divorce machine and women

00:21:03.100 are allowed to get away with it much more because it comes across as

00:21:07.340 you know almost like sadness right because there's the crocodile tears and there's this whole sort of

00:21:11.420 thing going on and that seems to be tacitly accepted but with men the expectation of anger

00:21:21.580 portrays that they could be abusive right and it's really not fair um someone going through unfounded

00:21:28.860 false allegations has every right to be angry they should be angry but that is going to get misinterpreted

00:21:36.940 yeah it's crazy that it unfolds that way yeah let's hear some more of these stories that you've

00:21:41.340 experienced what are what are some other ones that have sort of popped out during your uh career over

00:21:45.980 the 15 years oh there's so many um i had i had a crazy guy something to sink their teeth into ryan we

00:21:53.100 want to get some red meat out of you here i had a great file and and this goes back to what you're

00:21:59.820 talking about with like almost unlimited jurisdiction to reopen cases so i had a great file dealing with

00:22:06.380 this this guy was a professional by trade and he was extremely successful extremely successful he set

00:22:12.620 up a great number of practices and he ended up selling them over the years to people who he would hire

00:22:20.140 under him in his professional field and you know fast forward like 30 30 some odd years and the divorce

00:22:30.700 case gets reopened okay i was hired on for the woman in this case to act as an expert and the question

00:22:38.780 was were there hidden assets and the answer was yes there were and was there hidden income as well that

00:22:47.660 wasn't disclosed at the time of marriage now in his case he should have been better prepared for this

00:22:56.300 right because he had hidden a bunch of real estate assets he had hidden a bunch of things

00:23:00.140 and one of the lessons or takeaways from this is that women will say almost anything to really discredit

00:23:09.820 you right so recognizing that and realizing that these things can get reopened for almost any reason

00:23:18.300 down the road potentially and it'll get fought hopefully successfully if it's if it's unfounded in your

00:23:24.540 side i mean there were allegations that he was dealing with a mob there was allegations that he was like

00:23:30.300 taking briefcases of money and dropping them off to random people at the airport and then going to

00:23:35.020 a different terminal and flying somewhere else to like turks and cacos because he was involved in

00:23:40.380 some sort of like illegal gambling and blah did any of that happen or was that just she just wanted

00:23:44.940 to throw as much shit up against the wall and see what would stick there was no evidence that it happened

00:23:49.740 and i was one of the people to walk her back because she was you're acting for her right yeah in this

00:23:56.300 case she hired me right so i i was responsible for walking her back and going hey like we've looked

00:24:03.500 through everything there's no evidence of what you're alleging has happened here so let's stick

00:24:10.460 to the things that we can find rather than dive down this fishing expedition for years and years and years

00:24:16.460 and years and years of data it's not going to happen right and the sooner that you can get your

00:24:22.620 ex-wife sort of on side and thinking that um she has some trust in the number she has some trust in

00:24:28.460 what's going on and she starts to gain a little bit of respect for you the better right what happened

00:24:35.660 in this case the reason it got reopened is because he was withholding alimony so by withholding it and

00:24:42.860 playing games he wanted uh he wanted he wanted proof of life that she was still alive in order to pay

00:24:49.260 alimony and in the in the examinations the lawyer was like what is proof of life like do you mean like

00:24:57.340 a newspaper with today's date on it and a picture of her and that sort of thing and he's like yeah that

00:25:01.900 would have that would have worked that would have been great which is funny but it kind of cost him a

00:25:06.220 lot of money by playing games yeah that's wild okay yeah how does a how does a wealthy guy go

00:25:14.700 about structuring his life so that he gets to keep all of his stuff if he goes through the divorce

00:25:19.740 machine well i mean post-naps are are a good start right so post-naps would be a great starting point

00:25:28.220 realizing that i mean if you're entering into a marriage already wealthy you want to get all of

00:25:33.980 your stuff valued appropriately when you're going into the marriage right so if you have multiple

00:25:38.780 businesses let's say it's worth you're worth 50 million dollars you want to have some assurance

00:25:42.940 that you are worth 50 million dollars when you go in so if you end up divorcing later it's it would be

00:25:50.620 calculated on that difference but having a prenup going in and then updating it with a post-naps to

00:25:57.580 exclude these assets is key it is really key and i would highly recommend it it doesn't mean it's not

00:26:04.860 going to be challenged of course it'll be challenged but it helps a lot because it makes sort of a cost of

00:26:12.380 trying to access that money down the road a lot higher um i would do that and depending on your income

00:26:20.780 level depending on i mean if you're earning several million dollars a year it's time to start thinking

00:26:25.900 about uh cross jurisdiction like going across jurisdiction so having different businesses sort

00:26:31.900 of located elsewhere where you can mitigate taxes legally and have a system set up where

00:26:39.500 it's harder to get access to this information in the first place which just makes the cost of

00:26:44.860 a she's got to prove that you own it and b she's got to prove that you have access to the money

00:26:50.540 it just increases that sort of cost associated with proving it which works in men's favor significantly

00:27:00.380 there's um there's a notion that there's certain places in the world that are friendlier to men

00:27:05.580 going through divorce and you know you probably know this already but like 95 of the people that

00:27:10.300 watch my stuff are mostly guys right so um are there places in your experience over the last 15 years

00:27:15.900 where you found men were treated better than other like canada's kind of pretty straightforward across

00:27:22.140 the board with the exception of quebec the united states has different state laws like are there

00:27:26.620 places you found where um there's no real place in the world i i mean like you tell me if i'm wrong here

00:27:32.460 maybe it's china because i think you know i heard china just passed laws where women don't get access to

00:27:36.460 your property at all now um but but are there places in the western world where men are actually

00:27:41.740 somewhat treated as an equal you know rather than at a strong disadvantage

00:27:49.980 in western world it's hard to find um in certain states in the u.s more right leading states you're

00:27:56.700 going to run into a situation where 50 50 division of assets isn't necessarily the default and it may be

00:28:04.540 something called equitable distribution of assets which looks at more the input of each um spouse

00:28:13.020 into creating that wealth and it comes up maybe it's 40 60 or 30 70 uh the husband will keep more

00:28:20.460 and the wife would be entitled to less so certain right leading states in the u.s would be more like

00:28:26.940 that okay overall the family law system when it comes to issues like child custody has become more

00:28:33.260 favorable for men over the years um 50 50 custody is basically the default in the west right now

00:28:40.380 unless it can be proved that you're you know an alcoholic drug addict abusive person and then you know

00:28:47.580 things happen there but in today's society in the west i think it's a difficult system to go

00:28:54.540 through for men no matter what and it's a matter of just getting getting yourself together right

00:28:59.740 like taking that sort of king mindset taking that warrior mindset seriously and investing in yourself

00:29:06.540 and making sure that you're taking care of your kids to the best extent that you can yourself of

00:29:11.180 course to the best extent that you can and realizing that you're going to have to pay for your freedom

00:29:15.820 at the end of the day yeah they say divorce is expensive and it's worth it um what are the three

00:29:22.940 biggest mistakes that men make when they're going through the divorce process

00:29:31.100 almost almost all the mistakes uh that men generally do right so one of the biggest mistakes is not

00:29:37.420 planning for it there's only two ways that a marriage is going to end and it's either somebody's

00:29:42.300 going to die or you're going to get divorced and that's it and men have this idea of thing that

00:29:48.860 divorce isn't going to happen right like we like to believe that well it happened to our friend steve

00:29:54.220 because steve blah blah blah but it's not going to happen to me because i'm better right and we live

00:29:59.980 in this sort of blindness to the fact that people can leave there's it's a no fault divorce system it

00:30:04.860 doesn't matter why she wants to leave and they don't go into it with that mindset so they don't prepare

00:30:10.780 for it they don't take steps like a prenup or a postnup or having different companies um in different

00:30:18.380 jurisdictions they don't take these steps that can help to mitigate the damages right so the first

00:30:24.620 is just preparation and secondary to that when they receive the papers that's when a lot of men go oh

00:30:32.380 shit i need to hide all my money i need to do this and then they start moving money around and they start

00:30:37.740 you know doing things that they wouldn't they weren't doing before and it makes it really obvious

00:30:43.660 for somebody like me as a forensic accountant and expert to come and go the money is there it's

00:30:48.860 really simple and that i call it the divorce dive um i've heard a judge refer to it as i think it was

00:30:57.340 called rids where it's like um i forget the actual acronym but it's like uh their income their income

00:31:06.140 dives you know at the time of divorce effectively i call it the divorce dive and last but not least

00:31:13.660 it's just not maintaining emotional regulation over the process not seeing what's actually happening

00:31:20.220 not understanding the communication that's happening from their ex and not taking the steps that they need

00:31:25.660 to to get to a settlement right like in the book i talk about the four types of ex-wives

00:31:31.580 and there's type one two three and four and for types three and four who really want to just

00:31:39.420 burn your ass to the ground they want to make your life miserable and they think that

00:31:43.900 they're going to extract justice by making you suffer you don't go to mediation with these people

00:31:50.140 you don't go to collaborative family law with people who want to destroy you and not realizing that

00:31:56.460 your ex is in a position right now that she wants to destroy you and doing this ends up costing you

00:32:00.940 tons of time tons of money energy attention everything it can destroy you for years before

00:32:07.260 you can even get in front of a court i just say skip that process go to court and maybe she'll become

00:32:13.980 more willing to settle down the road and you have that opportunity then but if she's not willing to

00:32:18.780 settle now go to court go to court stop wasting your time and money um let's talk about the four types of

00:32:28.540 ex-wives sure yeah uh type one this is more what you would have seen back in the day in like the 1950s

00:32:37.580 and 60s type ones they want to maintain presence in your life they want to go through the divorce as

00:32:44.460 amicably as possible and make sure that they're taken care of right so this is where a lot of that

00:32:49.660 discussion of money and lifestyle comes into play where you go okay let's talk about your lifestyle

00:32:54.780 let's make sure that you are in a position where you feel like you're taken care of and you aren't

00:32:58.940 taken care of type ones are more willing to settle as long as they know that they'll be okay type twos

00:33:06.940 you tend to run into more frequently now i think you know the traditional bucket from the 1950s and 60s

00:33:14.220 has translated into more type twos today because women have become more financially sophisticated they work

00:33:19.820 in the workforce they're more professional whatever the case may be and they're more willing

00:33:23.820 to advocate for themselves which means that they want what's fair so there's an aspect of fairness

00:33:32.060 involved in this which is what does the court system think that i should get and by getting

00:33:39.660 that trust and respect back into this new relationship it helps to establish that yes you are getting

00:33:47.340 something that's fair or at least close we are reaching a settlement so it may not be a hundred

00:33:53.500 percent there but maybe it's 80 of the way there and that would be how you want to work with a type

00:33:59.260 two so if your wife works or your ex-wife works in a corporation if they work in a professional field

00:34:07.100 something like that you're more likely to run into this i want what's fair archetype which is a type

00:34:12.940 two type threes i see a lot of unfortunately which is i'm going to take you to court i'm going to

00:34:22.140 allege that you conducted all kinds of abuse i'm going to say whatever i want i'm going to say that

00:34:27.740 you're money laundering for the mob i'm going to say that you're hiding cash in a safe in a basement

00:34:32.540 that doesn't exist whatever type threes just want to make it as painful as possible they're going to take

00:34:37.420 your kids hostage they're going to play games they're going to get a restraining order issued

00:34:42.540 against you temporarily with the kids um that sort of thing so they're going to use your kids as

00:34:48.620 almost like hostages it's awful and type threes are more more likely than not to go that route

00:34:56.060 which is just trying to destroy your life literally in court which is why i say just go to court and get

00:35:02.460 the other stuff sorted out there a judge is going to be better to you than settlement and type fours

00:35:08.700 are like that amber heard it's not going to be confined to court anymore you know we're not going

00:35:15.340 to do the damage in court i'm going to make your life hell i'm going to go on the view and talk about

00:35:20.460 how crazy you are and you know all the different things that you did to me i'm going to make it really

00:35:24.860 public so then not only is your life destroyed sort of privately but it's going to be publicly

00:35:29.900 destroyed too so if you have a business you are you're going to lose a lot of customers because

00:35:35.820 these customers are going to hate you right because it's all going to go public type fours are extremely

00:35:41.660 dangerous today where personal branding social media and that stuff is so relevant and one tweet or

00:35:50.380 one post on instagram can just destroy so much wealth and value in your life

00:35:56.220 so i just made some notes here as you were talking um i put a check mark for the one that seemed

00:36:04.780 reasonable then i got fair then i got nuts and then i got turbo nuts and dangerous

00:36:10.860 um for those that are that are adamant and and and like serious about getting marriage getting into

00:36:19.340 marriage uh what traits do they look for um in a woman that they want to invite into their life or

00:36:26.300 maybe even red flags i mean if you want to deal with green flags and red flags um what are the common

00:36:30.780 traits maybe look for in a woman that they want to make a marriage commitment to in front of the

00:36:37.100 government and the church and all that sort of stuff so it if it doesn't work out it is as

00:36:43.580 like not as painful as possible right like we don't want bunnies boiled a horse head in the at the bed

00:36:48.860 shit on your bed like amber heard like any of those crazy things like what are we looking for here with

00:36:53.660 green flags and red flags in your experience well i mean i think if you're if you're adamant on getting

00:36:58.460 married right you have to look at marriage seriously which means at any point after you sign

00:37:06.780 you know i'm married now after you go through the whole um the whole ceremony at any point you can

00:37:14.860 you can expect that she can pull the plug and take half your ship right i mean that's that's the

00:37:21.660 expectation if you walk into a marriage with that expectation of at any point i'm willing to sign a

00:37:28.380 check my love for this person is so strong i'm so happy you know whatever that at any point for any

00:37:34.460 reason i can pull out my checkbook if she says f you i'm gone i can pull out my checkbook and write

00:37:41.020 a check for a million dollars 2 million 10 million 100 million if it's jeff bezos it's like 26 kajillion

00:37:48.300 dollars to uh leave and be okay with that right and be happy with that so in terms of traits what i'm

00:37:55.100 looking for would be somebody who's willing to support you right and have that sort of leader supporter

00:38:02.620 dynamic where they accept the fact that you're going to be leading the family which means that

00:38:08.860 you're going to be leading and doing what you think is right for the betterment of yourself her and your

00:38:15.100 children right and if she demonstrates consistently that she's very supportive towards that attitude

00:38:22.860 and doesn't want to sort of get in your way but would rather create a better man out of you and

00:38:30.300 you create a better woman out of her then you have a real opportunity for a good marriage

00:38:37.900 that can all go wrong if you get married and say my job is done i'm just going to focus on the money

00:38:45.100 you focus on everything else because she's going to realize that yeah you may have a lot of money but

00:38:49.900 you're not giving me the attention and the time and the energy that i really need to become the best

00:38:53.740 woman that i am you're not bringing that value home anymore other than just cash which is useless for

00:38:58.860 women that would be the sort of baseline and somebody who wants to take care of you goes out of her way

00:39:07.660 to do things for you sometimes without you even asking for it and who intuitively understands where

00:39:14.220 you're at just emotionally psychologically or just health-wise is important i'd be looking at those

00:39:20.620 things um if it's somebody who's rewarded heavily with monetary things so somebody who is driven by

00:39:27.900 getting material stuff like purses and diamonds and you know whatever shit like that it can be

00:39:33.740 princess treatment yeah the princess treatment i would say that is a flag to say

00:39:40.780 i don't really want a relationship that's monetarily based and if your only way of accessing value from me

00:39:47.740 is money i'm not interested in a long-term marriage with somebody like that because they're in it for

00:39:53.500 the money and the second that they realize that hey i can just take half and be great

00:40:02.300 do you really want that i wouldn't want that yeah that's the problem with family laws they can

00:40:06.300 they can get the money without having to put up with this dumb ass if they really want to it's it's

00:40:10.540 it's an easy step into another path that that doesn't change much for them once it's done

00:40:15.980 sorry it interrupted you did you have some other green and red flags there uh other green and red

00:40:22.140 flags for marriage yeah i mean i think that that covers it for the most part um i'd be looking at the

00:40:27.180 quality of the relationship leading up to the marriage itself and i have you know some things in

00:40:33.340 my book about a marital audit but that can just as easily be called a relationship audit right yeah let's

00:40:38.460 talk about the marital audit yeah because that was a good piece of the book too sure so in the book i

00:40:43.100 outline uh i forget if it's five or six different tests that you can kind of look at for the quality

00:40:49.180 of relationship right um the first one that grabs everybody's attention is the blowjob test right which

00:40:54.700 is number one i consider blowjobs to be the canary in the coal mine of relationships because it's something

00:41:00.300 that she wanted to do at the start of a relationship would do without being asked frequently at the start of

00:41:07.820 a relationship because she's attracted to you because she has respect for you and because she

00:41:11.580 has trust for you there's an art to relationships and when that willingness to do something that is

00:41:18.780 really just for you declines in other words it goes to zero and for a lot of men who are married it

00:41:26.620 goes to like uh i think the last time i had one was before i got married 10 years ago then what you

00:41:32.860 recognize is that the attraction level is down or the respect or the trust or some combination of that

00:41:38.780 so it's like it's that canary in the coal mine it it'll happen before sex it'll happen before

00:41:44.620 you know a lot of other things to say hey i need to get this relationship back on track it's a good

00:41:50.780 indicator of that now there are some other tests in the book like willingness to go with the flow

00:41:57.100 right or a change of plans and what that could look like is maybe you had plans to go out for dinner

00:42:04.460 at one place tonight and you go hey sweetheart i was thinking what if instead of there we go here

00:42:13.020 instead because i think it's going to be so much better and let's say it's the day of and if she's more

00:42:19.020 willing to go along with that that shows that she's trusting in your judgment and therefore thinks that

00:42:25.500 she's going to have a great time by following you right to this new spot i call this like um

00:42:31.580 i'm a big advocate for me too marriages which is not me too like she's going to sue you it's more

00:42:38.220 like i'm going to go here i think we should go here for dinner tonight and she says me too i think we

00:42:43.580 should go to something fun together and she says me too so she's on your plan yeah i'm going to have sex

00:42:49.180 now and she says me too great that's a great marriage right you want that sort of dynamic

00:42:55.980 happening all the time every single day to the extent that you can make it happen what percentage

00:43:01.580 of marriages do you think tick would would pass your marital sort of checklist like that health check

00:43:09.180 completely uh low a low percentage yeah a low percent there was um there was a study that was

00:43:16.140 done years ago that i included in my first book uh aaron and a civito and they found after about

00:43:20.780 an average of eight and a half years i think it was about 12 percent of people had reported still

00:43:25.980 being in love with one another and i think it was less than three percent that reported being in a state

00:43:30.780 of like uh bliss or obsession um so there's not a lot of people that pass that pass starting probably

00:43:38.220 with the blowjob test which is pretty straightforward when you'd think that i think that most guys when

00:43:43.500 they get married they probably think to themselves oh i'll have access to uh endless amounts of you

00:43:49.420 know swinging from the chandelier monkey sex that i'm having right now before we tie the knot and that's

00:43:54.700 really not the experience i think for most guys after it because you see them all over these discussion

00:43:59.980 forums you know searching for how do i get my wife to sleep with me or they're signing up for only

00:44:05.340 fans because that's the only way that they can get female attention even in a marriage

00:44:09.100 um i've heard the term financial abuse thrown around from time to time does that just mean

00:44:15.580 that she didn't like a budget that he set for her or what does that mean

00:44:21.260 it does mean that uh to some extent financial abuse is is sort of the withholding of the ability

00:44:26.380 to spend money right okay um now it doesn't mean that you can't have a budget it doesn't mean

00:44:30.620 that you can't do these things but when it's taken to like a really significant extent so let's say

00:44:36.700 you uh have a credit card and you give her a supplementary credit card and you put a spending

00:44:43.340 limit of it on the card itself for the month of like 200 right that could be perceived as financial

00:44:53.340 abuse or you if you're mad at her you cut off her access to your bank account you cut off her access

00:45:00.780 to the credit card you cut off access to you know financial resources again that can be perceived

00:45:06.380 as financial abuse so anything where it looks like you're using money as a mechanism of behavioral

00:45:13.580 control could be perceived as financial abuse just like um you know if you if you set up your life

00:45:23.100 where you get married and you take her away from her family right and you start making it really

00:45:31.100 difficult for her to see her family you start making it really difficult for her to see her friends right

00:45:35.580 so you sort of do this isolation thing and i recognize women do this to men all the time by the way

00:45:41.580 when you start doing these things and you know asking where did you go why did you go there you

00:45:47.340 shouldn't have gone there consistently enough and there's evidence of that that can be seen as

00:45:53.180 controlling and getting into that sort of abusive territory so you want to be very cognizant of

00:45:59.020 saying hey i don't think we should spend money on this because we don't have the money right now

00:46:03.740 versus you're not allowed to spend any money at all mm-hmm is um you know this is an interesting

00:46:12.140 question i want to post you i was thinking about this earlier but is divorce the time for men to be

00:46:18.140 chivalrous in what respect i find a lot of guys when they go through the divorce grinder they don't

00:46:26.460 put a lot of preparation into it they just sort of go with the flow and because they have kids with

00:46:33.580 her or they want her to be okay um you know i think men stay in divorce is longer than women do just

00:46:39.340 out of a sense of duty sort of thing i think men will put up with a more punishment sort of thing

00:46:44.220 and i see guys trying to be chivalrous to her during the divorce process um rather than just sort

00:46:50.700 of like um like as an example you know we talked about this before that when men and women get

00:46:56.140 divorced and when money is supposed to flow from her to him uh men are something like 10 times uh less

00:47:03.020 likely to take the money from her because it's just their sense of dignity would be uh compromised you

00:47:08.700 know taking money from a woman sort of thing um so that would be an example of you know chivalry you

00:47:13.500 know for example but maybe like you know giving her extra stuff during the process just to sort of

00:47:17.740 maybe like make her happy because she asked for it um so i mean the question again is is is divorce

00:47:24.140 a time for men to be chivalrous towards their wives or their got it got it often uh i may get in

00:47:33.740 trouble for this but often the answer to that is no um if you're dealing with somebody who's in that

00:47:39.260 type two and especially type three and type four you're going to be taken advantage of right and i

00:47:45.980 think for a lot of men a lot of men go through marriage and they are chivalrous in marriage they do

00:47:50.940 give a lot um often they don't receive much in return and they've been passive at home and i see

00:48:02.300 this a lot with really really extraordinarily successful men where it's like in the business

00:48:08.140 world they are alpha you know super great white shark whatever and completely cutthroat but when they

00:48:16.780 get home it's like you know they have a man cave and they're treated like the family

00:48:21.820 fucking gold golden doodle right and there's you know everybody loves the golden doodle but nobody

00:48:27.020 really respects or trusts the golden doodle and god i hope nobody is attracted to the golden doodle

00:48:33.180 in this relationship but it's so different their affectation is completely different and women

00:48:40.140 you know chances are that woman fell in love with that alpha shark guy who is competent successful

00:48:48.540 a leader someone who can be trusted and respected and all these different qualities but then at home

00:48:53.820 he's somebody who's not that so the version of that man that she's seeing is somebody completely different

00:48:59.420 and men carry a lot of grief into divorces often because they're blindsided or they've done something

00:49:06.140 wrong or they feel like they've done something wrong they feel shame they feel sadness they feel

00:49:10.860 all these different things this isn't the time to be playing for a tie this isn't the time to be playing

00:49:16.220 to lose you have to look at it just like women look at it women play to win this system and by being a

00:49:23.020 hard ass and being able to play this game better it is going to improve the likelihood of success so just

00:49:31.740 rolling over and giving her whatever she wants in a lot of cases is to your detriment it makes the

00:49:37.500 divorce more costly it makes it take more time more expensive and you end up losing as a result of that

00:49:44.460 yeah you set a pretty strong precedent when you let somebody abuse you use you take advantage of you

00:49:51.260 sort of thing like people kind of do what they've always done and you know if you let her sort of

00:49:56.700 run you you know um i think i think your point you know to a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs

00:50:03.740 who can be weapons in their business world and they come home and they're wrapped around her little

00:50:07.180 finger sort of thing is is a great analogy because uh um it's it's just like i mean if you want to get

00:50:14.300 run over and especially if you're like there's four types of women that you're going to divorce and

00:50:17.900 and three quarters of them suck right and i mean chances are you're going through the divorce because

00:50:24.460 you've been this passive puppy dog in the first place usually the expectation is now going through

00:50:29.500 the divorce process if i continue to roll over and be a good dog this is going to work well for me no

00:50:34.860 of course not that's not how it's going to work it should be strong um what what percentage of the four

00:50:42.700 types of women that guys divorce are the type one like the somewhat reasonable type where the outcome

00:50:48.460 seems quick and not that bad there's they still exist um they still exist i think you know maybe

00:50:56.540 50 60 years ago it could have been closer to like half and i think today it's maybe 10 20 percent

00:51:06.700 fall in that range more often than not you see type twos and threes you'll see type fours again maybe

00:51:14.700 10 10 20 of the time you'll see twos and threes probably an equal balance between what's left

00:51:21.020 so maybe 30 30 a lot of the times it will depend on what led to the divorce in the first in the first

00:51:27.660 place so um i had a i had a divorce case you wanted story so i had a divorce case many many moons ago i was

00:51:37.340 gonna be an expert for this for this man and he had like an extremely extremely big successful of all

00:51:46.940 things dog breeding business and i was so excited about this because i'm sitting there i'm writing

00:51:55.500 up this report to say how do you value a dog breeding business and i'm like okay so you have

00:52:03.580 female dogs and male dogs right which is in the dog world what do you call female dogs

00:52:10.300 bitches yeah yeah perfect so part of part of this whole report going through it you couldn't wait to

00:52:15.500 go to the court to talk about bitches hey i'm going ha here here listen judge listen your honor

00:52:23.100 this is how you value bitches okay my client's got 17 bitches right now yeah he's got 17 bitches

00:52:30.380 uh is valued based on youth uh ability to procreate and their you know how they look what the affectation

00:52:38.700 of this female dog this bitch is um so i'm writing out this report to do all this stuff um but as a

00:52:45.420 as a tertiary point to this to this report uh and this case just in general i was talking to him i'm

00:52:51.180 like hey what happened like what are the circumstances here what are we dealing with and i said well i had an

00:52:57.980 affair okay she was trying to take over the business by the way she was saying that it was

00:53:03.020 her dad's or something like that so it's technically hers the wife or the the ex-wife and which is a

00:53:10.700 pretty uh aggressive stance for a for a woman to take she was basically saying that he wasn't the owner

00:53:16.460 and she was the owner truly etc and i was asking him you know what led to this right so how do we get

00:53:24.540 here he says well i had an affair okay well a lot of people have affairs affairs are bad i understand

00:53:29.660 that she's upset about it so i get while we're you know sort of going through type two type three kind

00:53:35.500 of category and then he goes well it wasn't it wasn't so much the affair um it was with this younger

00:53:42.620 woman who was also an employee of the business i don't know she got pregnant right

00:53:45.820 wait i'm almost there so she was like more she was like 18 at the time right so she the ex-wife

00:53:54.540 was saying that he was basically a pedophile and couldn't be trusted with the kids and i'm like okay

00:53:58.540 well you shouldn't have had an affair you shouldn't have had an affair with somebody who's 18 and

00:54:04.300 especially somebody who's working for you because that's pretty pretty dumb and he goes well it wasn't

00:54:10.140 so much that it was oh by the way did i tell you that i'm a new dad there it is okay great congratulations

00:54:18.540 you know is that what caused it and you go well it was definitely partly that but it was also because

00:54:25.500 i didn't tell her anything and the way that my wife found out my wife at the time is that we were

00:54:31.660 driving somewhere together and my girlfriend called and i took the call on speakerphone

00:54:38.620 in the car and the call was to get me to come to the hospital because she was delivering the baby

00:54:44.060 that day okay oh now i get why we're in type three kind of we're almost moving into type four

00:54:52.780 category now right i'll have no fury like a woman scoring right and especially a woman who finds out that

00:54:59.020 you know you are now a new dad to a 19 year old uh mom um in the car unwarned etc right so

00:55:09.100 how the divorce happens can definitely put it in there funnily um with women women who go and

00:55:16.220 have affairs themselves they are really predominantly type three very strongly type three because they're

00:55:25.020 angry that you cause them to have the affair so not only is she banging somebody else but she's also

00:55:32.620 going to destroy you in the divorce process while she's banging somebody else um yes you said earlier

00:55:39.580 that um maybe 50 years ago we had a lot more type one gals that were more reasonable that were okay with

00:55:46.300 just sort of you know moving things forward without destroying the man's life and that's changed

00:55:51.260 dramatically now where we get uh like the crazies like the amber herds taking dumps on your bed and

00:55:56.940 you know dealing with the character assassination all that sort of stuff um what do you think's

00:56:01.260 changed in the last 50 years that sort of moved women from kind of reasonable to really not that

00:56:07.980 reasonable and difficult well i think it's i mean this is a theory so it's it's definitely not a hundred

00:56:17.020 percent but i think a lot of it comes from female empowerment and i think a lot of it comes from

00:56:22.940 women understanding business better understanding numbers better and being more willing to um

00:56:31.420 sort of advocate for themselves and negotiate for themselves and none of these types by the way are

00:56:37.340 static in the sense that once she's a type three she's always going to be a type three right i tend to

00:56:43.020 run into a lot of those and i help men move their ex-wife from type three closer to type two and

00:56:49.420 hopefully type one um but i think it's just women being more competent negotiators that has caused

00:56:57.020 an influx of women into the type two category where they want what's fair because they understand the

00:57:03.020 legal system a little bit better they understand how to play the game a little bit better and they're

00:57:06.940 more willing to go to the proverbial mattresses over it as well yeah so the um i don't know if

00:57:13.260 you've gone through my book yet i gave you a copy of the conference but there's a chapter on chapter

00:57:16.540 on becky it's kind of like a boss girl sort of avatar is that what we're talking about yeah you run

00:57:21.580 into a lot more of that these days right there's a lot more uh women out there who can become

00:57:27.980 successful as well um now the reason that i think for higher net worth men it's really tilted

00:57:35.100 against or higher net worth let's just say higher net worth people the system is still predominantly

00:57:39.740 tilted against men in my experience i think i've seen maybe three cases where the woman made more

00:57:47.500 money but where the big money is is the business valuation itself and women tend to excel in service

00:57:54.460 based businesses so maybe they're an actress or a lawyer or a doctor some sort of professional

00:58:00.300 like that so they may have high income but the value of the business itself is actually quite low

00:58:05.180 where men tend to excel in creating things so manufacturing businesses you know construction

00:58:12.380 businesses this sort of thing where the actual valuation of the company is skyrocket high compared

00:58:19.020 to if they were just a you know a cardiologist or something like that where the business is low

00:58:25.420 so it's the so it's women's empowerment empowerment feminism like this is what's sort of moving

00:58:33.180 divorce to becoming more hostile towards men i i do think so i mean there's a lot there um so

00:58:41.900 is it professional women that that usually fall into the type two three four category versus like maybe

00:58:48.700 the uh more submissive uh biblical religious type of woman in the type one like is that usually where they

00:58:55.100 fall yeah i mean it depends again it's going to depend on the circumstances leading up to the

00:58:59.340 the divorce if you have that sort of traditional um stay-at-home mom and you're like the major

00:59:07.340 breadwinner right in the in the family or maybe you're not the major breadwinner let's say you have

00:59:10.860 a landscaping business it doesn't matter but she's able to stay at home with the kids and that sort of

00:59:15.420 thing you're more likely to run into either a type one or a type three and depending on what happened

00:59:23.340 that caused the divorce is going to determine whether or not she's a type one or type three

00:59:28.220 effectively like so what happened in the marriage if you're married to somebody who you know let's say

00:59:34.860 that they have a career of their own and you're bringing in tons and tons of money and her income is

00:59:40.540 because she wants it you're more likely to run into a type two or type three again depending on the

00:59:47.500 circumstances leading into that okay um let's start to sort of wind this down a little bit um

00:59:56.380 let's finish with this question um

01:00:00.780 would you advise marriage to men today is that something that that you would endorse

01:00:07.100 divorce it depends you have a son you know so would you say look son you know i think marriage

01:00:13.580 is a good idea this is something that you should do or is there another strategy that you would employ

01:00:18.380 when he gets to that point in his life well i have to i mean i have two sons right and i'm married so

01:00:24.780 i think as a divorced person who is married i probably bring and certainly a unique perspective

01:00:31.660 because most of the people who work in this field are generally divorced or they haven't been married

01:00:36.300 um i think it depends rich honestly and it's going to depend on is this woman so valuable to you that

01:00:44.540 you are going to be substantially more successful and again you're signing a contract to basically say

01:00:51.980 at any point i can write a check for half of my shit and say here bye and if those criteria are met so

01:01:01.660 she's uh going to be a great mom as far as you can tell she's going to be a great spouse as far

01:01:06.940 as you can tell a great wife she's going to make you better she's going to make you more successful

01:01:12.620 she's going to open doors for you that would not have otherwise been open because being married there

01:01:18.460 is like a almost like a trust factor that people will give to you because they see that you're stable

01:01:24.940 right or um in you know i noticed it when i got married too where women became more likely to talk

01:01:32.540 to me and even more likely to flirt or hit on me because i was wearing a wedding ring right because

01:01:38.460 they see it and they go okay well somebody else trusts this guy yeah pre-selection women want what

01:01:44.060 other women want right exactly so if you can if you can reasonably ascertain that this is the right

01:01:51.420 woman and she's going to do these things for you and you're comfortable with writing that check at

01:01:56.060 the end of the day whether it be in 5 10 15 25 years then that is a criteria where i would say

01:02:03.340 marriage is a good thing right if there's maybe maybe not if there's reservations if there's

01:02:11.020 issues that haven't been discussed in advance if you can't get her through a prenup process or a

01:02:15.580 post-nup process um i guess we're dealing with marriage ahead of time so a prenup where she's

01:02:21.500 willing to you know exclude significant assets and and work with you then you have to look at these

01:02:29.340 things and say is this really the woman for me is this somebody who is on my side and who will

01:02:34.940 continue to be on my side as long as i put in the work and she puts in the work after we get married

01:02:39.580 and in a lot of cases unfortunately in today's world and given the current status of western

01:02:45.980 marital law it's going to end up being disadvantageous for a lot of men out there who

01:02:52.940 can be extraordinarily successful whether or not they have a wife it doesn't matter to them and they'll

01:02:58.540 be successful no matter what and by taking somebody on and giving them half of their stuff they end up

01:03:03.180 being hurt down the road um so it's going to really depend i think that the criteria and the bar is

01:03:10.940 high and i'm a strong advocate for men today who have that same question to go through this and say

01:03:18.380 is this really worth it because there's a lot attached to it yeah it really is and i mean

01:03:25.420 you guys know my stand if you fall for a while i mean there's a chapter in my first book on why smart

01:03:29.420 men don't marry i talk a lot about red flags in the new book we got some green flags i talk about

01:03:34.700 a lot in the new book about long-term relationship management so that you don't end up in a place

01:03:39.260 where you're talking to a guy like ryan to go through the untying of the knot um it's tough man

01:03:45.420 um i know that that's where most guys will still go and they still proudly i mean you see it all over

01:03:51.260 social media you know i was on twitter this morning and you know your feed shows up and there's

01:03:54.700 a guy down on his knee and the you know the statement is she said yes you know it's all

01:03:59.580 it's all blissful and it's all amazing or it's like post-wedding and it's like me and margaret tied

01:04:03.820 the knot um you know uh but the woman you marry is never the woman that you divorce as you kind of

01:04:10.540 alluded to earlier and i think you guys um i mean if you're if you're following me for a while you're

01:04:15.820 kind of tuned into that but i thought that um you know some of these stories that ryan has and the

01:04:20.540 stuff that's in his book and i listened to it it's a you know it's a good book um it's something that

01:04:25.420 you should all contemplate especially if you're successful you're becoming successful because

01:04:31.820 you really have no idea what you're up against i think the i think the thing that i hear the most

01:04:35.900 from guys that are going through the divorce grinder or they or they have done it is i would i really

01:04:41.740 wasn't ready for that i didn't i didn't know that it was going to be like that and you know she changed

01:04:46.780 the environment changed the laws changed you know my relationship with my kids changed uh

01:04:52.140 all of that changes you know pretty dramatically and you know i tell you guys this all the time

01:04:57.100 you can you know you can love a woman and have a good relationship with her but not invite laws into

01:05:03.500 your life that you can avoid i mean you can have children with women and and avoid a lot of these

01:05:07.420 headaches still it's it's not conventional and you have to kind of create a somewhat unconventional

01:05:12.220 life for yourself so um ryan and wrapping up where should people find you and what kind of person

01:05:17.980 should talk to you like who's your ideal client uh you can find me online on instagram and stay

01:05:23.500 rich divorce i have a youtube channel which is uh stay rich show and you can find me at uh stay

01:05:30.860 rich divorce.com as well um the type of people who i love working with who i love kind of going through

01:05:38.940 the stuff with are men who have success they have incomes you know generally in excess of maybe 150

01:05:45.420 200 000 per year generally i deal with a lot of men who are in a higher bracket but we do have

01:05:51.340 ways of getting you information if you are in lower income brackets too where you don't have to pay me

01:05:56.540 for a bunch of money for my time and if you're going into a relationship if you're going into a marriage

01:06:03.580 um setting up a prenup figuring out how much um if you have a business how much it's worth that sort

01:06:09.100 of thing is critically important and if you're going through a divorce obviously all that you

01:06:14.860 know business valuation stuff is key too but you need to learn how to play the game you need to learn

01:06:19.500 how to speak in a way where your word is taken as gold and act in that way especially going through

01:06:28.540 the court system especially to experts who will use your words against you and i do a lot of work with

01:06:34.060 men on that and getting their wives closer from you know maybe a type 3 back to type 2 and getting

01:06:40.380 them settlements that they can work with so then they have a good relationship with their kids they

01:06:44.700 don't lose everything um and they can just exit the divorce process and be so much richer and better

01:06:51.980 for it so men who like that message can certainly find me at stayrichdivorce.com and we will have a

01:06:59.180 wonderful time getting you through the divorce as much as that sounds impossible you're going to come

01:07:03.740 out so much richer and better as a result of it all right guys thanks um so later on tonight i'm

01:07:11.500 going to be on the unplugged alpha channel talking about the chapter from my book on becky the modern

01:07:15.500 woman the kind of boss girl type of avatar which seems to fall into type two three and four um so

01:07:20.860 tune in for that i'll also be doing q a again so you can call in live and ask questions i'll probably

01:07:25.020 run a two-hour show i mean we'll see how many questions come in uh but that'll be 7 p.m eastern so

01:07:31.020 uh stick around after ryan we'll talk for a little bit i'll just play this podcast outro

01:07:35.100 for 30 seconds and we'll chop all right guys if you enjoyed that podcast make sure you visit my

01:07:40.140 website at rich cooper.ca to learn more about my courses my book the unplugged alpha community

01:07:46.860 or booking me for private coaching also if you are a canadian with fifteen thousand dollars or more of

01:07:51.660 credit card debt and what you are doing right now isn't paying off the balances then visit total

01:07:57.020 debtfreedom.ca and hit get a free quote to see if you qualify to settle your credit card debt for

01:08:03.500 less than you owe today over the next 48 months make sure you check out the top pin comment on

01:08:08.060 youtube for all the links mentioned during the show peace

Playing to Win - November 11, 2025

PTW 106 Ryan Bensen

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