postyX - Modern Pioneers： Creating Free Folk Conditions in Weimar

00:00:00.000 All right. Welcome, Curtis. Nice.

00:00:05.080 Hello. Good evening.

00:00:08.540 Bonsoir.

00:00:10.480 Go get posty.

00:00:14.480 Hey, Curtis. How's it going?

00:00:16.680 Super. How are you doing?

00:00:18.580 Yeah. Nice to hear from you.

00:00:20.980 Yeah, you too.

00:00:21.760 Is it beautiful in Alberta or is it...

00:00:24.680 In BC, it's beautiful.

00:00:26.920 In BC?

00:00:27.400 Oh, it's unbelievable.

00:00:28.260 It is.

00:00:28.660 Spring is here. It's sunny.

00:00:30.520 It's warm. I've been outside most of the day.

00:00:33.520 Can't complain.

00:00:36.660 So beautiful.

00:00:38.000 We've been having crazy ice storms, rain storms, snow is warm.

00:00:42.160 Oh, my God.

00:00:44.900 Yeah, it's fighting the elements.

00:00:48.120 Well, you guys...

00:00:48.860 In Eastern Canada.

00:00:50.040 Out East, you guys get a bit more of an Indian summer usually.

00:00:53.020 Your summer goes a little longer than ours sometimes.

00:00:56.020 And then you hold on to winter a little longer.

00:00:59.860 We don't usually get snow until, like, January.

00:01:02.940 Like, I feel like we don't get a lot of snow up until January.

00:01:05.520 And then, yeah, we end up with snow in April, which is what happened yesterday.

00:01:08.920 It's just really messy and indecisive.

00:01:13.780 And it's like, okay, were you doing this or are we not?

00:01:16.640 Like, you know, and so it's beautiful sunny days.

00:01:20.260 And then it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm fighting the winter winds from the Arctic.

00:01:25.620 Yeah, I was in Calgary last weekend, and it was depressing.

00:01:30.700 Not only because 90% of the people there are foreigners, but the weather was nice before I got there.

00:01:37.500 And when I got there, it snowed a foot and went back down to, like, minus eight.

00:01:42.000 Brutal.

00:01:43.160 So depressing.

00:01:44.380 Brutal.

00:01:45.320 So we brought up Arvel.

00:01:46.700 Welcome, Arvel.

00:01:48.040 Yeah.

00:01:48.780 Yay.

00:01:49.200 Welcome, Arvel.

00:01:50.900 Hey, good to be here.

00:01:51.840 Yeah, we haven't had snow lately, luckily.

00:01:55.060 But we have had some tornadoes and storms and all sorts of stuff.

00:01:59.380 Yeah, I heard that there was some storms moving through that area of the U.S.

00:02:03.760 I follow somebody who lives in, I guess, Indiana.

00:02:07.240 And I guess it was moving across.

00:02:08.860 I'm not sure how far that is from where you guys are, but.

00:02:12.920 Yeah, a little ways.

00:02:14.320 I guess the, like, tornado alley is further east this year.

00:02:18.640 That's what they're saying.

00:02:19.400 And so we've had real bad winds.

00:02:23.320 That's not conducive for building.

00:02:25.300 That's for sure.

00:02:27.240 No, not exactly.

00:02:28.740 No.

00:02:30.620 But it's not.

00:02:31.340 It's warm enough.

00:02:31.760 So we.

00:02:32.400 It's getting, you know, green, so.

00:02:36.980 You're living the Arkansas dream.

00:02:40.020 So, yeah, we wanted to introduce you, Curtis Arvel.

00:02:43.220 Arvel Curtis.

00:02:43.920 We weren't sure if you guys were familiar with each other's work, but we're really proud

00:02:48.900 and grateful that you're, you're here tonight.

00:02:51.300 And maybe we could just, like, share a bit about what we want to accomplish tonight.

00:02:58.160 And, like, I guess, Posty, you might have a few ground rules for the audience just so

00:03:03.320 that people know how, like, we want to run things tonight just so that we manage people's

00:03:07.920 expectations.

00:03:08.620 Well, we anticipate that this is going to be a really great, interesting conversation

00:03:12.280 between the two gentlemen here.

00:03:13.640 And I don't really want to put any kind of wrenches in it.

00:03:17.040 So we're going to keep it as a closed mic.

00:03:19.140 If there's anybody, like, we may have agreed to bring other people up, but we're going to

00:03:22.280 keep it as a closed mic just for the sake of information sharing and being able to let

00:03:27.040 the guys cook and not have to any interruptions and stuff like that.

00:03:29.720 So I appreciate if you want to come up and ask if we have time towards the end and the

00:03:34.020 gentlemen are able to, we can maybe do a little bit of a Q&A.

00:03:37.440 But I think up until that point, it's just going to be a closed mic.

00:03:40.620 So hopefully you'll stick around to listen.

00:03:45.780 Sounds good.

00:03:47.060 Yeah, sounds good.

00:03:48.580 So I guess I've been thinking a lot about this conversation and the 14 words, right?

00:03:58.640 We must secure our existence.

00:04:02.020 We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.

00:04:06.000 Thank you.

00:04:08.080 And, you know, yesterday, one of our beautiful Aryan sons was murdered.

00:04:14.180 His name is Austin Metcalfe.

00:04:16.360 And he was this beautiful high school all-star football player.

00:04:20.100 He was a twin.

00:04:21.580 And he was murdered needlessly and died in his brother's arms.

00:04:25.880 And his family are in shock.

00:04:27.580 And, you know, everybody's busy judging them.

00:04:31.400 But I think for a lot of white people, they are starting to feel like they know what time

00:04:37.900 it is.

00:04:38.480 And they see the writing on the wall with what's happening in South Africa, political persecution

00:04:45.020 of, you know, white Australians who are trying to defend themselves.

00:04:49.120 You know, any white country of white people who are trying to defend themselves are being

00:04:53.600 persecuted.

00:04:54.220 And I think that for the people that can see a little bit into the future, they're really

00:05:01.140 starting to say, no, like, we need a white fortress.

00:05:03.960 We need a white community.

00:05:05.820 We need balkanization.

00:05:07.580 And, like, more and more people are going to want to go this way.

00:05:13.940 Even though I still defend people staying in cities and wanting to fight in their own

00:05:18.100 towns and, like, holding the line.

00:05:20.000 I completely support it.

00:05:21.580 But sometimes it gets too much.

00:05:23.360 And some people are like, that's it.

00:05:24.900 I want out.

00:05:25.840 And I want to go somewhere else with my own people and not have to live like this.

00:05:31.540 Marvel, would you agree that that is part of the reason, like, these kinds of, you know,

00:05:37.760 Weimar conditions that we experienced yesterday with Austin Metcalfe is why people want to return

00:05:45.960 to the land?

00:05:47.660 Yeah, absolutely.

00:05:48.360 I mean, things like that happen every day, unfortunately.

00:05:52.880 Growing up in Southern California, I saw bullying, attacks, assaults, fights that I don't want

00:05:59.560 my kids to have to get into.

00:06:01.300 And it's not the way it used to be.

00:06:02.600 It's not the way it should be.

00:06:04.320 And I don't see any way of reliably giving that to future generations unless we reliably

00:06:09.980 create spaces where we can have our own culture and our own values, you know, like we did in

00:06:16.200 the past.

00:06:16.620 Curtis, what do you think?

00:06:22.420 I mean, 100%.

00:06:23.380 I mean, I've been across the country this year, not quite coast to coast, but west coast

00:06:29.500 out as far as Toronto.

00:06:31.100 And I've been to all the major cities and we're in trouble.

00:06:35.260 And it's a cross-border issue, I think.

00:06:39.620 You know, there's minor discrepancies in the details of how fucked things are for Arval and

00:06:46.500 the US and us up in Canada.

00:06:48.620 But fundamentally, we have the same plight in that we are being genocided through political

00:06:57.480 and economic and cultural and social tactics that are being weaponized against us.

00:07:05.220 So this isn't a direct war.

00:07:06.600 This is fifth generation warfare.

00:07:08.440 And we're being flooded by people who, up until the last few years, I never had issues

00:07:15.320 with anybody.

00:07:16.880 And to be totally upfront, I don't have any issues with individuals as far as the color

00:07:23.020 of your skin.

00:07:23.780 And I just want to be able to have a future for my kids, Arval and I are both parents,

00:07:30.220 that looks at least close to what it was for me.

00:07:34.580 And at least the similar opportunities and the freedom to associate and go around.

00:07:40.000 But, you know, I just came from Calgary.

00:07:42.000 And I spent a few hours doing some shopping at Ikea.

00:07:46.340 And it was a culture shock.

00:07:48.340 And I don't mean shocked by the Swedish culture.

00:07:51.020 I mean, 90% of the people there were not speaking English and were not white.

00:07:57.380 I shit you not.

00:07:58.740 I heard the odd Ukrainian.

00:08:01.040 But for 90%, I'm not kidding.

00:08:03.880 I was absolutely flabbergasted.

00:08:06.760 And sad to say that it's the same in every metropolitan city in this country.

00:08:12.980 Coast to coast, Vancouver, shithole.

00:08:16.520 Edmonton, Calgary, shitholes.

00:08:18.560 Saskatoon, same thing.

00:08:20.780 In Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal's got its own interesting circumstances because of the

00:08:26.440 language thing.

00:08:27.140 But this is what's happening.

00:08:29.720 And I'm with Arval 100% in that we need to find ways to balkanize as a people.

00:08:36.440 I think him and I, it would be interesting to kind of explore things.

00:08:38.860 I mean, I think for myself personally, there's some differences because of the situation that

00:08:46.940 we're in, you know, for him in Arkansas, he's not too far from St. Louis or Memphis, Tennessee.

00:08:54.100 And those are very, you know, urban, black, violent cities.

00:08:58.380 And we just don't have that kind of stuff in Canada.

00:09:01.260 So the types of immigrants we have that are flooding us are different.

00:09:05.060 And the circumstances are slightly different.

00:09:07.020 But I think ultimately, we're all going to agree on the outcome.

00:09:10.080 And you ladies said it in the intro is that that we need to balkanize.

00:09:13.500 And I think there's actually many ways to do that.

00:09:15.220 And I'm excited for this conversation and to explore some of these ideas.

00:09:19.520 Yeah, for sure.

00:09:20.500 And before I know Steve has his hand up before we just go to him and see what he has to say,

00:09:24.340 I wanted to say, I probably grew up in the same kind of time as you guys did, or at least

00:09:29.460 Curtis, probably.

00:09:30.520 And I agree, like, that's all I've ever wanted for my kids is to have them grow up in that,

00:09:34.860 you know, late 80s, you know, early to mid 90s kind of era for a teenager or for kids.

00:09:41.560 It was just like a great time.

00:09:42.780 And it's totally unlike that now.

00:09:46.180 So yeah, I can definitely empathize and sympathize with you.

00:09:50.340 Go ahead, Steve.

00:09:53.860 Yeah, first of all, I want to say great job to Posey and BASE for putting this space together.

00:10:01.480 Really looking forward to hearing this discussion.

00:10:04.800 Huge kudos to Arval for the work he's doing.

00:10:07.980 We had him in 1488 radio, and it was very inspiring and heartening to hear what he's doing with

00:10:16.560 the Return to the Land project, how he's structured it, and how, you know, it's not just something

00:10:21.880 that is unique to where he's at.

00:10:24.400 It's something that's replicable.

00:10:27.660 And, you know, he advocates for people to replicate the way that he's doing things with

00:10:35.620 the private members association.

00:10:37.780 I think it's a great idea.

00:10:39.880 Fully encourage it.

00:10:41.380 And to Curtis, you know, Curtis is a very knowledgeable homesteader and prepper.

00:10:46.340 And it's probably because of his recent travel experience.

00:10:50.540 But I remember hearing Curtis in 1488 radio several months ago and hearing the tone of his

00:10:57.040 rhetoric having shifted to being a little more pro-white, you know, white preservationist

00:11:02.240 is really a very welcome, you know, kind of shift.

00:11:08.900 And so big kudos to Curtis for that.

00:11:11.540 And I very much look forward to this discussion.

00:11:14.300 Thank you.

00:11:16.680 Yeah, thank you, Steve.

00:11:18.200 Um, okay, so let's start with Arvel.

00:11:21.960 And, you know, I want to kind of ask a little bit about history and just see how it compares

00:11:26.500 with Canada.

00:11:27.600 We watched one of your videos, Arvel, and you talked about the Fair Housing Act of 1968.

00:11:35.300 And maybe you could tell the audience, for those who don't know, who aren't American, what

00:11:39.800 the Fair Housing Act of 1968 was, and how it kind of changed our destiny as the white European

00:11:48.560 diaspora of in America.

00:11:53.080 Right.

00:11:53.800 Yeah, that came on the tails of the civil rights acts in general of the 60s, you know, after

00:11:59.980 Kennedy was assassinated, um, by, you know, we have our suspicions as to who did that now.

00:12:07.200 Um, Johnson came in and started these sweeping reforms that led to things like affirmative

00:12:15.200 action, which meant that minorities took priority in American corporations.

00:12:21.440 And that is still basically the law of the land today.

00:12:24.980 You know, the, the white candidates get placed at the bottom of the pile.

00:12:29.180 If you're black, you get extra points applying to college and things like that.

00:12:33.040 So that's one side of the civil rights act that we're all familiar with and affirmative

00:12:36.580 action and things that were consequent to it.

00:12:38.400 The Fair Housing Act, uh, was really targeted at eliminating, uh, eliminating white communities

00:12:45.400 by disallowing certain practices that were up until then pretty common, like redlining,

00:12:52.500 you know, even companies that issue mortgages and are involved in real estate transactions.

00:12:58.160 Like they were aware of the demographic realities of who is going to pay back loans and who's not.

00:13:03.800 And they made sure that discrimination on the part of lenders was totally disallowed, uh,

00:13:10.320 real estate brokers that was disallowed and even private real estate transactions.

00:13:15.180 That's sort of the most insidious part.

00:13:17.240 The rest of it, you, you could sort of make an argument that, you know, we all have a right

00:13:21.200 to access to certain basic services in the economy, but, uh, they went beyond that where

00:13:27.700 individuals are not allowed to have restrictive covenants.

00:13:31.620 So in the past you could say, you know, this is a German neighborhood and if you want to

00:13:36.840 buy a house here, you have to agree that when you sell your house, you sell it to another

00:13:40.860 person of German ethnicity.

00:13:42.980 And that way ethnic enclaves could retain their cultural homogeneity and have some, some control

00:13:49.800 over the neighborhood that they're living in.

00:13:52.420 Um, that is no longer allowed.

00:13:54.700 So you can't have restrictive covenants.

00:13:56.960 When you sell your house, it has to be fully open market.

00:14:00.740 You can get away with it on a case by case basis by, you know, only advertising to limited,

00:14:07.000 um, markets online, you know, your friends and stuff like that.

00:14:11.420 But if you try to scale that eventually you will get sued because it is illegal to discriminate

00:14:18.400 in real estate transactions.

00:14:19.960 So, um, because of that, there are not very many options for establishing a kind of white,

00:14:27.380 uh, vulcanized areas within the U S which is why we took our approach of the private membership

00:14:34.540 association in conjunction with an LLC that owns our land.

00:14:39.440 So the reason we went with a PMA and there are other possible ways of doing this, you could

00:14:44.880 do a fraternal benefit society.

00:14:47.200 Um, like there are different ethnic fraternities for Polish people or Norwegian people or whatever

00:14:53.280 ethnicity that they have lodges, they have insurance programs for people from their communities

00:14:59.040 and that's perfectly legal, but a, a white fraternal benefit society is not necessarily legal.

00:15:06.020 So we went with something a little bit more general, which is a private, uh, association

00:15:11.260 country clubs can be private associations, um, clubs that are involved in distributing raw

00:15:18.760 milk can be private associations.

00:15:20.640 Sometimes people will get around laws, um, prohibiting the sale of raw milk by having an association

00:15:27.960 that collectively owns a few cows.

00:15:30.960 And then they distribute the milk to all the members instead of selling the milk because selling

00:15:35.800 the milk is prohibited, but distributing it among owners, that's perfectly legal.

00:15:40.680 So that's what they do.

00:15:41.580 Um, so the, the PMA is a very broad kind of quasi legal framework and there's specific language

00:15:51.080 in the fair housing act that exempts private membership associations from some of the anti-discrimination

00:15:58.080 policies that are there, um, in the legislation.

00:16:02.080 So private associations are allowed to maintain real estate on behalf of their members, even

00:16:10.500 if their membership is restricted to a particular protected class, you know, particular religious

00:16:16.600 group, race, gender, it's very wide open.

00:16:20.940 Um, and that's there in the letter of the law in the fair housing act.

00:16:24.160 So that's why we use that.

00:16:25.720 And then the LLC is just how we practically own the land.

00:16:30.580 You have to have a common bank account.

00:16:32.700 You have to have some legal entity that is the land holder.

00:16:35.800 Um, and so we don't sell real estate, which is another way that we get around the fair

00:16:40.920 housing act restrictions.

00:16:42.360 We sell shares in our LLC that owns the land and manages the land and basically acts like

00:16:49.860 a fairly hands-off HOA with the added benefit that we get to decide what kind of people come

00:16:56.000 into our community.

00:16:56.760 So you can make it very involved if you want.

00:16:59.880 It's a, an adaptable framework.

00:17:01.360 You can have it be very hands-off.

00:17:03.940 So it can be just a private neighborhood or a much more involved community with more kind

00:17:09.400 of common infrastructure and we'd like to see it scale around the country.

00:17:14.120 Other, um, groups in other countries even are emulating a similar, uh, framework.

00:17:20.120 Irania is a share block corporation, sort of how we work, um, in the UK, the Woodlander

00:17:27.640 initiative is using a very similar legal framework, even in Australia, you know, the, the guys with

00:17:33.800 the National Socialist Network down there, um, they are exploring similar, uh, ways of holding

00:17:40.120 real estate, but with trusts in their case.

00:17:42.540 So there are minor differences in different legal contexts, but we're kind of, we had a

00:17:48.520 international, uh, intentional community conference a few months ago, and we're finding like one

00:17:55.280 general approach that works in pretty much all Western countries to ensure that we can have

00:18:01.880 homogenous communities. So, uh, I always try to give credit to Peter Siri, our secretary, who is

00:18:08.920 the guy who really figured out this framework and it's not easy. And there are a lot of ways of

00:18:13.960 getting it wrong. So our PMA is really specifically to enable people to form communities like this

00:18:20.520 without, uh, you know, violating the law unintentionally.

00:18:26.280 No, that's, that's awesome. And I'm wondering, I don't know based if you had anything else right now,

00:18:30.240 but I was wondering if maybe Curtis can give us maybe the Canadian perspective, if you've explored

00:18:34.640 something like this in Canada or the, oh yeah, big, big time, big time. Um, I've been kind of doing my

00:18:40.320 own law practice as sort of a cowboy lawyer in my own way for almost 10 years, learning the law,

00:18:47.520 understanding the difference between public and private. And I think I'd just like to add something,

00:18:51.760 um, and I'll speak a little bit more to the Canadian context too, but just something to buttress,

00:18:56.240 um, what Arvel has going on and the importance of this idea of being in the private.

00:19:02.480 And, and, and it's, it's a, it's actually quite a broad subject, but you know, we, we exist in two

00:19:07.840 worlds in, in, in the world that we live in. We exist in the public and we exist in the private.

00:19:12.560 Uh, that, that can mean in a literal sense in that you can be in the public walking out on the street

00:19:18.560 and people can see you, and then you can be in the private in your bedroom or in your home.

00:19:23.120 Uh, but it also exists in a legal context and it's sort of the difference between lawful and legal.

00:19:28.320 So if you can kind of imagine a, uh, a Bible on one side and then a Black's law dictionary on the

00:19:36.320 other. And what we have is a dichotomy of existence that really comes down from God, the creator.

00:19:42.560 And it, in the Western world that the Holy Bible, whether you're Christian or not,

00:19:47.840 uh, it doesn't matter, um, is the word of God as it is embodied in the law, much in the same way

00:19:54.400 that the Koran is in the, in the Middle East. And all of our laws are rooted in, in, in the Bible,

00:20:01.840 but the Bible exists as a way for us to understand free will, I believe. And that's why it exists in

00:20:09.840 the courts. And, and that's what I would call the private world. And in the public world over

00:20:14.800 are standing on, um, Black's law dictionary. Oh, no, sorry. That's the private world that

00:20:19.760 the God, the world of God, the world of creation is the private world, men and women on the land

00:20:24.880 existing born of creation. That's the private world in the public world. We have Black's law

00:20:30.560 dictionary, and that is the world of the matrix. That's the world of paper. It's the world of

00:20:35.120 commercial, uh, entities. It's the world of money printing. It's the world of the legal fiction.

00:20:40.800 It's the world of the all caps name. And these two worlds exist as fact, and it can never be taken

00:20:48.240 away. And this is what's so powerful about the idea of, uh, PMAs and what guys like Arvel are doing

00:20:55.520 is that you cannot fundamentally take away an individual's right to contract. It's actually

00:21:01.840 baked into our, our entire existence. We always have the right to contract that can never be taken

00:21:07.760 away. It can be propagandized away, but you always have a choice. And that's, that's what I believe

00:21:13.280 that the Bible, um, represents in, in our Western society is the right of choice and the right to

00:21:19.520 choose between public and private. And so, for example, you can take, you could, the government

00:21:24.800 could kidnap you, could bound you to a chair, could duct tape your mouth closed, and it can ask you a

00:21:30.160 question. Are you going to agree or are you going to not? And you can nod yes or nod no. Nobody can take

00:21:36.640 away that right. We always have the right to contract. We always have the right to agree or not.

00:21:40.720 And so the private is so powerful because once we start to realize what we are in the private,

00:21:47.120 it's a world of responsibility. It's a world of, um, a lack of conveniences and privileges and

00:21:53.280 benefits that the matrix that the public world has offered us. But it's a world that if we want

00:21:58.320 to preserve our heritage and preserve who we are and just our ways of living, uh, I believe it's the only

00:22:04.800 way. Uh, there's many other solutions on the way to that, but I think, um, what Arvel's presenting

00:22:12.160 is, is exactly what needs to happen. And I'd like to go onto some other, um, aspects of it that I think

00:22:18.960 are potential solutions for many of us, but this is ultimately it is that we have to decide if we're

00:22:25.840 going to carry on in this world, we're going to have to do it in the private because if we do it in the

00:22:30.400 public, we're playing their game, we're in their court, we're playing by their rules. And, and there,

00:22:35.920 there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, you can have a bit of a mix and match, if you will,

00:22:39.840 in the sense that Arvel's got a PMA and then underneath that he's got an LLC and that's the

00:22:46.000 commercial entity of it. But the private members association is in the private and it's, it's decided

00:22:53.200 upon by those people in that association. And so it exists in a superior law way to the public side.

00:23:01.200 The public side is just the vehicle into the commercial world because we can't, we can't just

00:23:05.440 make the commercial world go away. Like it is here. The matrix is a fact, whether you like it or not.

00:23:10.640 And so one day, perhaps, you know, maybe that will be the, the second coming of Christ or something.

00:23:15.600 I don't know, but one day perhaps we will transcend that matrix, but we're a long way from it.

00:23:20.160 And so in, in the, in the interim, I think we need, um, solutions like this to where people

00:23:26.400 need to go into the private. And that is the world of, um, responsibility. It's the world of work.

00:23:33.600 It's the world of, um, of, uh, really stepping up because the matrix, the world, the public world is

00:23:41.360 just going to be an endless stream of conveniences, privileges, and benefits. And they're going to

00:23:45.760 find more and more ways to keep us locked into it. And so it is what Arvel's proposing and what

00:23:52.240 we're talking about here tonight is, is a harder path. There's no question in my mind, it's a harder

00:23:57.280 path, but it is the path. If you give a shit about your people and, and, and, and if you care about

00:24:03.760 the future and, and, and I, I will say, you know, shout out to Steven who, who, who piped up earlier and

00:24:08.480 kind of called me out for going on 1488 radio. I think there was more to that conversation than

00:24:13.600 he might've understood as far as where I was coming from, but, um, I've seen it and, and really, um,

00:24:20.480 I have to tell you traveling across the country in the last 12 months has really opened my eyes.

00:24:25.920 I've been in a little bit of a bubble post COVID because my wife and I, and my, my children,

00:24:31.120 we moved off grid into the mountains of Southern BC and yeah, I go on Twitter and I see what's going

00:24:36.880 on, but it's really something to see it with your own eyes. And, and, and, and, you know,

00:24:41.520 shout out for those guys for kind of, uh, sticking with me, if you will. Um, and bearing with me in my

00:24:48.080 transition of understanding of how bad the situation is, but you really do have to see it to believe it.

00:24:53.200 And if you travel to the metropolitan cities across the continent here, you will see it. And it's shocking.

00:24:58.000 And, um, yeah, I mean, real quick on the Canadian context, I think everything that Arvel's proposing

00:25:03.440 here, uh, and tonight we'll, we'll get into a bit more of the details of it. I'm sure, uh,

00:25:07.920 is all doable up here in Canada. We might not use an LLC, but it just could be, uh, some kind of

00:25:13.120 corporation and, uh, it could also be done with the trust, but, uh, PMAs are alive and well up in

00:25:19.440 Canada. And, um, I think what I'll be proposing, maybe we'll get to this as the conversation morphs,

00:25:26.480 but I also think there's a case to be made that, uh, we, as people on both sides of the border,

00:25:31.920 not only need to start forming PMAs and balkamizing, but we also need to be taking over the,

00:25:36.640 the regional rural local politics, uh, at the local level, the small municipalities,

00:25:42.080 the rural municipalities, the counties, this is where we need to go. This is where the fight is

00:25:46.400 next politically because we've lost it federally. There's no hope in my opinion for that. Um, not even

00:25:52.160 provincially, but we need to get into the local politics where sometimes in Canada,

00:25:56.560 there's nobody even running. Counselors get elected all the time. And especially in the

00:26:00.480 rural municipalities, just, they just get signed in because only one guy ran. So I think there's

00:26:05.760 a huge opportunity, uh, and some conversation to be had on that too, but I'll, I'll land it there.

00:26:12.160 If I could just add a quick Canadian context to something that Arville said,

00:26:15.920 the, um, restrictive covenants that ended in the sixties were made illegal. That also happened

00:26:23.600 up here in Canada. We called them property conveyances. And it was, um, a push led by the

00:26:30.080 association, the Toronto association for civil liberties, which was led by a Jewish man named

00:26:35.680 Irving Himmel and also had, uh, you know, support from the Canadian Jewish Congress in B'nai B'rith,

00:26:41.920 Canada to get rid of, um, discriminatory property conveyances. And that was brought about in the

00:26:50.080 early, early to mid sixties around the same time that those same groups are pushing for the

00:26:56.080 establishment of the Canadian human rights commission, the Ontario human rights commission,

00:27:01.280 which all say that you can't discriminate against white people. So it's a interesting coincidence there.

00:27:07.920 And, um, yeah, Curtis, you know, I, uh, I'm not one to pull the ladder up behind me. I understand,

00:27:14.320 you know, different people come to, uh, various acceptances at different times. And so, you know,

00:27:21.280 I've meant that with all respect and I'm just happy to see, um, you know, the shift in your rhetoric

00:27:27.520 and, uh, yeah, just wanting to give you some kudos for that.

00:27:34.960 So, um, uh, we've got Frank up here, Frank, was there something you wanted to, um, join in on

00:27:41.680 before we shift the questions, uh, not right at the moment. It's been, been excellent so far.

00:27:59.200 Uh, Arval, uh, of course you and I got introduced, I think about a year, year and a half ago,

00:28:05.120 been watching your progress. Uh, very impressive. Curtis, you've got a very, very good delivery.

00:28:10.480 Um, I'm just going to relax and, uh, listen to the conversation. And, um, when I need to pop up,

00:28:16.560 I will. Thanks a lot for the mic. Before we move on, I would just add one thing,

00:28:23.440 if it's all right, to support what Curtis and Steve were saying. There is a ton of case law

00:28:28.320 supporting the right of private associations to discriminate like country clubs. You know,

00:28:33.600 the, the PMA aspect of a country club, the free association aspect has always been held higher than the,

00:28:40.640 kind of corporate world LLC aspect, because they will have an LLC or some kind of corporate

00:28:46.160 structure that manages their, their actual assets. But the first amendment right of freedom of

00:28:52.400 association in the U S and probably in other Western countries as well has always been upheld.

00:28:59.120 Um, and I think that that's, that's very fortunate. I would also add that it's fortunate in a way that

00:29:05.600 we're being pushed to consider how we organize more intentionally in the past with organic white

00:29:13.440 communities. You know, we've had our successes and our failures. Um, but it's happened sort of by

00:29:19.600 happenstance of geography and demographics and who's moving, where now we're faced with a new era

00:29:26.320 in our identity, where the people who solidify it consciously and think about, you know, how we do

00:29:33.520 things and what our values are, the people who think more carefully and consider more carefully how

00:29:39.280 to move forward, they're going to be, be the people who have success. So in a way it will be the more

00:29:44.160 difficult path, but I think the rewards actually are far greater than the way we were doing things

00:29:50.000 before. Well, and the rewards are, are, are really our only way of survival. And, and, and even to add

00:29:57.920 to that, Arval, um, I mean, private, as I was saying, you know, the private law goes back before statute

00:30:04.960 law. I mean, it comes through ecclesiastical law, which was the original law of the church and, um,

00:30:12.160 trusts and things like this. This is how things have always been done. So private is superior and,

00:30:17.840 and, and, but as we kind of both said and agreed on is that it is a harder path. Uh, it requires

00:30:23.680 more responsibility. It requires a new type of people to step up. And frankly, I think some,

00:30:30.000 sometimes, you know, you can, you can get really bummed out about the way the world is, but at the

00:30:34.860 same time, I kind of get stoked. I kind of get excited being like, you know what, this is a fucking

00:30:39.520 challenge and it's the challenge of the time. And if we care about the future, uh, you know, for me,

00:30:45.340 I have two young kids and I recently lost my wife and like, you know, my, my, I'm, I'm more hardcore

00:30:50.540 and steadfast than ever because, you know, traveling across this country just makes me realize that we

00:30:56.080 are in deep shit. And, and this, and this country particular is finished. Canada is finished. Like

00:31:01.660 no matter what happens at the election, most likely conservatives or liberals are going to drive us

00:31:06.300 into ruin and they're going to keep the floodgates of immigration. And, and, and fundamentally,

00:31:11.280 we have to address why that is happening. I mean, there's a lot of, you know, some, some people

00:31:18.140 have mentioned the Jewish individuals who seem to happen to end up in all of these institutions

00:31:23.480 that push these, these programs, but fundamentally, uh, it's even another Jewish program that goes

00:31:29.180 beyond that. That is the root of the cause here, which is usury in the central bank system where,

00:31:35.620 uh, the citizens of a country are used as leverage to borrow money into the future.

00:31:40.600 And the debt is serviced by their labor through collected through income tax, but they've been

00:31:45.500 appointed as trustees to a system that they have a fiduciary duty to, but have no control or no say

00:31:52.080 on the outcome. Whereas how a good society should look. And I'm not even opposed to the idea of a

00:31:58.200 central bank. If the citizens are the beneficiaries, I'm not even opposed. I used to be very libertarian,

00:32:03.400 very, very anarchist. And, and I have to tell you, listening to many evenings of GQ radio,

00:32:08.960 Hitler speeches in English have blown my mind that a lot of these ideas that I thought I came to just

00:32:14.260 on my own. Um, maybe I did, but found out that they had been reiterated, been iterated and reiterated

00:32:20.580 in history many times before. We're not the first people to have these discussions, but these ideas

00:32:26.240 that we can collectivize our labor and our power to, um, leverage, uh, infrastructure and, and building

00:32:34.020 projects and things that we need. This is what we're going to have to do because this idea that

00:32:38.500 we can go back to a gold standard when the JQ pretty much have all of the gold and have all of

00:32:44.740 the systems to gather it and mine it to think that we can just hope for a free market. And I'm, I'm all

00:32:50.420 for Bitcoin and I'm all for a lot of free market solutions, but, uh, with the situation we're in

00:32:55.580 now, um, that's not going to get us there. And so I think the idea of collectivizing regionally

00:33:01.460 is of the utmost importance because in even, and he even speaks against some of these platforms that

00:33:07.380 we're using now, as much as, as great as they are. And I'm grateful that we're having these

00:33:11.140 conversations. We've got a guy like Arvel telling us a bunch of, a bunch of Canadians about what he's got

00:33:15.640 going down there in Arkansas. It's amazing. At the same time, uh, we need to be very aware that,

00:33:20.560 that, uh, there is a great siloing happening right now. I believe that these platforms are,

00:33:26.180 they're letting us in as like a honeypot operation so that they can silo us. And so the solution for

00:33:31.180 that is to do what Arvel and I are doing is to get active in your community, build things,

00:33:36.800 create things in the physical world, build the relationships there. Mostly use the platforms.

00:33:41.540 It's great. They're connecting us and they should, but we need to come

00:33:45.580 together in the real world and make things happen. Otherwise there's just not much of a

00:33:50.040 future for, for any of us. You brought up an important point about the, uh, you know,

00:33:55.340 the financial system and usury and all that stuff. And I wanted to, we can touch on it after. I don't

00:34:00.120 know if base has something else lined up, but I know watching your video, Arvel, the, what is

00:34:04.420 returned to the land? You kind of touched on how the finances would work as far as the community.

00:34:09.460 Like I, I'm, and maybe I'm assuming wrong, so correct me please, but is they wouldn't necessarily

00:34:14.520 rely on a bank to loan because they're built kind of building the house with their own hands?

00:34:20.980 Well, we're trying to loan to each other as far as that's possible. Um, it's not a rent to own

00:34:27.620 agreement. That's the law is very particular and I can't go calling things by any, you know,

00:34:34.140 kind of, uh, firing from the hip names cause I could get in trouble, but it's similar in certain

00:34:39.780 ways to a rent to own agreement. Um, so like upfront to buy land, there are going to be some

00:34:46.240 people, a small number of people who have more resources. That's just always how things tend

00:34:51.180 to work. Right. And those people can help people who are younger, who aren't as well established

00:34:58.500 to get into land ownership, to get into the community by allowing them to purchase LLC shares

00:35:06.820 month to month. And it's a very flexible arrangement. And I think we haven't even begun really to tap

00:35:12.760 into the potential of it. Um, I was just today starting to really think about, you know, if you

00:35:19.040 already have land, we talked to a lot of people who already have acreage, the kind of people who are

00:35:23.660 interested in returning to the land, go figure, a lot of them already have land and a lot of them want

00:35:28.560 to form communities. They just don't have the network and they don't know exactly how to do it.

00:35:32.280 Well, with this kind of LLC structure, if you already own the land and you have, you know,

00:35:39.540 say 40 acres that you're not really using, you can subdivide that into 22 acre lots, um, that could

00:35:45.880 be easily developed septic systems, wells. I mean, they'll fit there on two acre lots. And if you're

00:35:52.720 not using that land, all of a sudden you have the opportunity of generating revenue for yourself.

00:35:57.560 You know, you have 40 acres, you can have 20 young white families doing a great thing, building

00:36:04.020 community, and also have a way of building residual income for yourself, retirement income for

00:36:10.460 yourself. This is a way to redistribute from, you know, the assets of the older generation to give

00:36:17.360 opportunities to the younger generation while also taking care of our elders, how we should. So yeah,

00:36:23.660 it's not, um, not rent to own, but there, there's a, a kind of like crowdsourced finance involved in

00:36:32.020 what we're doing. We have a lot more progress to, to make though, in having kind of official

00:36:37.600 financial institutions. Irania has a bank, you know, an official bank that they use to, to issue,

00:36:44.760 you know, more or less mortgages on their lots and their community. We're not there yet,

00:36:49.700 but the general framework is larger investors can benefit, you know, younger people, people who

00:36:56.640 aren't as well established, and also they can benefit in turn by collecting revenue from what

00:37:02.340 would otherwise just be an asset that they held. Awesome. Just, uh, one quick thing. I put the video

00:37:08.980 from Arbel's, um, Twitter or X page, return to, uh, the land. What is return to the land? I think

00:37:15.160 everybody should watch it because it's really white pilling. If you're having a bad day or a black

00:37:19.600 pilling day, it's very white pilling and it's extremely, I think, motivating. So anyways, I just

00:37:24.420 want to tell everybody that. So go ahead base. Yeah. I kind of wanted to like ask Arbel, like

00:37:31.760 the principle of what you've doing from what I've gathered in what I've heard you say is that you

00:37:36.800 want to make it, um, replicable. You want other people, like this is a template that can be used

00:37:43.640 like a stamp all over the country and internationally. What do you think like the principles are of what

00:37:50.580 you're doing that would make it replicable? What are the replicable principles? If I can get that

00:37:55.600 out. Thanks. Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, the main, uh, idea is simply that we have the private

00:38:04.120 association where we stipulate what are our criteria for membership. So obviously we're a European

00:38:10.560 heritage organization. You should have European ancestry. You also have to be very careful though,

00:38:17.600 even when you stipulate how you select members to go by the letter of the law. So we don't simply

00:38:24.060 accept white people and that's it, right? It membership decisions are made on a case by case basis. And yet

00:38:31.140 we're a European heritage association. So we want this to be replicable in that we have done our legal

00:38:39.140 research and we've paid several different lawyers and we've had many different volunteer lawyers look

00:38:44.380 at our documents to make sure that we're saying everything in the right way and going about it in

00:38:48.960 the right way and using the right formulas for our legal documents. I mean, part of the community

00:38:54.820 is in physical space and that's the part that's easier to comprehend, but that physical space is

00:39:01.080 organized by our contracts, you know, that stipulate who has access to what lots, what are lot holders

00:39:08.960 allowed to do? What are they not allowed to do? And I mean, we have to think about a lot of the things

00:39:15.880 that, um, civic engineers have to think about when they're doing town planning. We have to think about

00:39:21.760 roads. We have to think about waterways. We have to think about drainage issues and it's not,

00:39:27.640 it's not easy, frankly. So there's just a lot of careful thought that has to go into formulating

00:39:32.900 these documents in a way that protects the rights of lot holders and gives them as much freedom as

00:39:38.640 they can have while also not opening up opportunities for abuse or neglect or things that are going to

00:39:46.400 have, you know, negative externalities for other community members. So it's a really tough kind of

00:39:52.720 tightrope to walk between over-regulation and, and not being, um, regulated at all. You know,

00:40:01.100 we like laissez-faire in certain regards, but also we have to make sure that everyone is doing the legal

00:40:06.300 thing so that the whole collective doesn't get in trouble. So, uh, the biggest part of like how to

00:40:11.940 replicate this is having the legal details really nailed down. Um, and that's one of the main functions

00:40:18.600 of the PMA very soon. We'll be initiating a higher tier membership that does have a monthly fee

00:40:24.260 associated. Currently, we just have the initial, you know, uh, membership fee to sign up, uh, because

00:40:31.280 we have to process it. And also it helps to show that you're a bona fide private association. If

00:40:37.160 there's some process that people go through and they, you know, they pay into a real account and

00:40:42.040 there's, you know, documents that are signed, we have a membership agreement that people sign.

00:40:47.200 So, uh, but one, one day soon we'll have a recurring payment that will all go into

00:40:53.440 a legal fund for research and mutual legal aid. We, we can't necessarily call it a legal insurance fund,

00:41:02.500 but think of it as something in the ballpark of that so that if one of the communities is sued

00:41:08.600 for any reason, you know, related to discrimination, then the entire PMA, this whole network of

00:41:15.260 communities can come to their aid. Um, and then of course we all benefit by collectively researching

00:41:22.440 how to formulate our documents better so that we're more in alignment with existing case law

00:41:28.100 and more in alignment with constitutional law. And so that when, again, eventually one of these

00:41:33.960 communities is brought to court, we have the best possible defense and it's really a hazard,

00:41:40.100 you know, for all of us, if people go out there and try without doing all of this research,

00:41:46.180 just kind of winging it, um, to do things like this and they get taken to court. Well, if they lose in

00:41:52.720 court because of some other thing they did that was illegal, that they weren't even thinking about,

00:41:57.120 then that hurts the case law because just by association, well, here's a case where they were sued for

00:42:03.520 discrimination and they lost their case and the minutia of, well, they actually lost because they,

00:42:09.260 they didn't dot this I and cross this T that's going to get lost. So we need to make sure that

00:42:14.280 when this becomes an issue of, you know, it becomes a challenge in court that we have the strongest

00:42:22.000 possible line of defense. And that's the main reason really for the PMA. And that's how we're trying

00:42:26.640 to make it a replicable model also with assistance in like, actually, how do you go about doing this?

00:42:34.640 How do you buy the land? How do you start the bank account? How do you start the LLC? Some of it you

00:42:40.200 can learn for yourself, but the sum total of it is a body of knowledge that really you have to gain

00:42:46.300 some expertise in. And so for PMA affiliated communities, we kind of set the bar that some

00:42:52.360 of your, first of all, you have to have a board of managers. It can't just be one person doing

00:42:56.300 everything. You have to have a president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, like, you know,

00:43:01.200 other corporations and entities have. And then, you know, that board has to be in contact with the

00:43:08.760 PMA at large, and we have to communicate best practices and we have to have, you know, training

00:43:13.380 seminars to make sure we're, we're doing this in a legal, fair, ethical way.

00:43:18.900 It's so, it's so awesome the way that you guys are doing this brother. And the fact that you're

00:43:25.420 making this information available to others is key. I can tell you in my, the urban farmer days,

00:43:32.480 when I was traveling around the world, making videos about farming, I visited intentional

00:43:37.700 communities all over the United States. And it was an, it's been an obsession of mine for many,

00:43:43.820 many years. Certainly the angle that I'm coming at it now is a lot different than it was then.

00:43:48.900 Back then I was, I really believed in climate change. I thought we needed to live in intentional

00:43:54.600 communities to, to fight the existential crisis of climate change, which is all a lie and bullshit

00:43:59.440 and a globalist, you know, propaganda piece. But these communities always fall apart. Intentional

00:44:07.140 communities always fall apart. And the ones that work the best are the religious ones. And the reason

00:44:13.140 for that is that there is a common North star that everybody is proposing. What I love about what you

00:44:19.980 guys are doing is that in, as far as I understand, you not necessarily, the religion isn't a big piece

00:44:28.260 of it. You guys are kind of free to, to do whatever you like. The main structure is that you agree to what

00:44:35.240 the terms of the private members association are. Am I correct on that, Arvel? You guys aren't

00:44:39.680 necessarily exclusively any type of religious denomination? Uh, correct. Yeah. We don't let

00:44:45.880 members do whatever they want, uh, religiously. Like we don't allow Satanists or even outright

00:44:51.660 atheists, you know, agnostics. We were like, well, maybe, but, uh, our kind of ground is tradition. Yeah.

00:44:58.340 No Islam. Exactly. Traditional European religion, which includes European paganism, as well as all

00:45:04.040 forms of Christianity. And is there, I'm just curious, I don't want to open a can of worms, but

00:45:09.360 are there provisions in there about Judaism? Yeah. Judaism is not a traditional European

00:45:15.660 religion. So that would not be a criteria. Right, right, right. Good. Good. So, so the thing that's so

00:45:21.940 powerful about this is that we, we have an opportunity here as, as countrymen and both sides

00:45:28.660 of the, of the border here to come together on, uh, a common idea. And these guys are really

00:45:36.040 front loading a massive amount of the work because so many of these intentional communities fall

00:45:41.360 apart. Again, I was saying, if they're not religious, that the, all the hippie ones, they

00:45:46.380 all fall apart because they don't have a clear organized structure. They don't have, um, shotgun

00:45:53.300 clauses, things like that, you know, clauses in a contract that says, well, if this happens, what is

00:45:57.720 what happens to this and this and this? Um, it sounds like these guys have all of that together.

00:46:02.220 And so this is, um, this is, this is probably in my opinion, uh, the most exciting thing in the

00:46:10.160 freedom movement right now. And it's, it's not going to get as much traction as the, um, political

00:46:17.200 movements do because that's what, that's the Hollywood story that everybody wants us to buy

00:46:22.020 into, right? Is that, you know, it's the William Wallace freedom and storming the Capitol and taken

00:46:27.880 over and all this bullshit. Um, what, what it sounds like Arville is doing is something that I've

00:46:34.020 said for a long time is that we need to just walk away from the King. It's not about trying to take

00:46:40.000 the King. It's not about trying to take the throne. It's about just politely saying we're going to do

00:46:45.200 our own thing. And, and the private members associations are so common. One that he didn't

00:46:50.140 mention that is very, very common is the Freemasons. Uh, I'm not a Mason. I don't endorse anything to do

00:46:57.620 with the Masons, but they are a private members association. And these people have all kinds of

00:47:03.360 privileges and benefits in society in and amongst their members. For example, um, top judges are often

00:47:09.860 Freemasons. Top police commissioners are often Freemasons. Top doctors, lawyers are often Freemasons.

00:47:16.140 And so they're all in the same club. And as much as we can look at that and say, Hey, we don't like

00:47:21.720 that. Cause I certainly don't. At the same time, we can say, Hey, they might be doing something that

00:47:26.920 we could learn from if we want to have our own self-determination because, uh, it works and it's

00:47:33.420 been around for a long time. Ah, amazing. Posty and air chatting in the background. We're so pumped

00:47:42.280 up. So again, we just want to put out there to those who are trying to come up, we're keeping

00:47:46.500 it closed mic for now while these gentlemen, um, cook, they are making sourdough up here, something

00:47:52.840 fierce. Um, I wanted to ask Arvel about, you know, I, I hear that, you know, he's so articulate

00:48:00.400 and clearly, you know, well-studied, um, you've been doing your homework, you're a West coast

00:48:05.960 boy. And so you speak in, in a, in a particular way, but I wanted to ask you about leadership

00:48:12.780 and what do you think that the most important qualities are for a leader to take this on?

00:48:20.380 And I did want you to dip into humility and leadership if you're open to that.

00:48:25.160 Yeah. Um, I mean, honestly, I was not, uh, jumping at the bit to step into a leadership

00:48:34.780 role of this. Um, I've been focused on philosophy for the longest time and I was very pro community,

00:48:42.240 but what I wanted to do was to start a school teaching Plato. I really love classic, uh, Greek

00:48:49.200 philosophy, Plato, Aristotle, the Neoplatonists. That's what I really cared about at a personal

00:48:54.460 level. And that's the kind of institution I wanted to start. Um, so that's the kind

00:48:59.220 of leadership, you know, I had in mind and I was prepared for, but, uh, it really kind

00:49:04.940 of snowballed, um, out of my hands very quickly. A lot of the guys who ended up being the co-founders

00:49:11.820 of return to the land. Um, they came down to help me in building infrastructure for my school,

00:49:18.720 because I put out a video, you know, saying what the intention was and how beneficial it could

00:49:24.040 be for our people. And they, they agreed and they very generously, you know, gave of their time and,

00:49:31.080 and came down and we had like a seminar on aircrete building, which is this, uh, kind of

00:49:38.060 aerosolized concrete, uh, material that it ended up not being that useful. Um, I probably wouldn't

00:49:46.260 build with it again, but it was like a neat novel, you know, technology that we all got to learn

00:49:50.880 about. Anywho. So that went for a week. And while everyone was down here, we went around the area

00:49:57.620 and saw, uh, just a lot of land that was for sale and the prices of that land and the feasibility of

00:50:05.360 doing something at a much larger scale became apparent. You know, some of us had resources,

00:50:10.320 some of us like Peter, a Siri, especially had the know-how, you know, I already had an established

00:50:16.000 network of people that I had been talking with about these ideas online. So just all the right

00:50:21.480 people kind of came together at the right time. And, uh, so that kind of is that humility point.

00:50:27.460 Like I didn't stick to what I thought we needed. I was willing to compromise and say, Hey, whoever is

00:50:35.720 showing up, whoever like is willing to put their heart into this, I have to respect where you're coming

00:50:40.800 from first. You know, it's not like my preconceived idea has to be it. Like I had no conception of a

00:50:48.300 PMA LLC combo legal framework. Like, like many people, I wanted to keep things informal. So I didn't

00:50:55.320 have to deal with all that. Like my school was going to be an informal institution, but, um, really

00:51:01.080 I was just thinking small, like Peter thought of things at a level that I hadn't thought of. And I recognized

00:51:06.960 that instead of kind of retreating into like, no, it has to be my way. I just said, Hey, I recognize

00:51:12.660 a good idea when I see it. So I think one of the key features of a good leader is recognizing the

00:51:18.980 talent in the people that show up, appreciating that talent and just, you know, letting them know that

00:51:26.380 they're as much a part of it as you are. And I try to emphasize that. Um, but, but really like,

00:51:33.480 I'm not as hands-on in a leadership role as, as, uh, I guess I could be, I could be a much better

00:51:41.860 leader. Other things though, it's, it's really just, you have to be sensitive to the personalities

00:51:46.700 involved and really truly want to know where they're coming from. So I'd say empathy, appreciating

00:51:53.300 other perspectives. Um, and the things that I've not been as good with is setting clear directives

00:52:00.180 and setting a good example. So I've, I've noticed that when I like, for instance, say we should

00:52:05.800 have a volunteer day, we should all get out. We should get this front fence built. You know,

00:52:10.860 we've been procrastinating on it for months. And when I show up and I say like here at this time in

00:52:17.680 this place, the rest of them show up, you know, because that's just kind of, yeah, that's how,

00:52:24.660 that's how it goes. And, uh, I need to amp that up and rec just kind of recognize you're

00:52:31.560 going to get from the people that follow you, what you put into it. And if you slack and say

00:52:38.280 that they're not doing enough, it's because really you're not doing enough and you have

00:52:42.540 to take accountability, but really the same goes kind of from a follower standpoint. I think

00:52:47.960 just in life, like if you're not getting what you want out of a relationship, it's easy to

00:52:52.960 blame the other person and say that I'm the one that's in the right and they're in the wrong.

00:52:57.820 It's, it's harder to recognize what you did to precipitate whatever unfortunate circumstance

00:53:03.540 you're in. And, uh, and I think that's where the greater reward lies.

00:53:08.500 But you just described humility, really, when you think about it, it being, having that humility and

00:53:13.520 being humble enough to admit that you're sometimes wrong, right? And maybe it is your fault sometimes,

00:53:18.280 right? It's, it's so key. Um, you know, so much of the resistance and freedom movement gets bogged

00:53:26.160 down in trying to be right. Um, and, and sort of a dichotomy of thought that I, I like to propose

00:53:32.420 is, um, it's, it's better to, it's better to win than to be right. So to be right is to stand there

00:53:39.380 and try to prove a point, uh, to a greater whole. Um, but it comes at great cost. And so often I say it's a,

00:53:47.300 it's another dichotomy of justice versus equity in that, um, do you want justice? That's to be

00:53:53.900 right, to stand there, to prove to the system, you know, fuck Trudeau, all, you know, all this stuff,

00:53:58.780 or do you want to just win? And to win is to get to the heart of the issue is to settle the matter

00:54:05.160 and to take your shit and walk away. And I think that's really what I'm hearing Arville talk about

00:54:12.120 is that this is winning, but it's not about being right. Cause to be right is to try to win

00:54:17.020 for everybody. And that's a, that's a, that's a losing game. This, this idea that we can sort of

00:54:23.360 convince everybody in the world that our viewpoints are really the one, the right ones. And I mean,

00:54:28.940 that's a, this is as long as history, history as we know, it has been an endless struggle of that,

00:54:34.380 but to win is to just say, let's, let's set some reasonable goals. Let's, let's, let's take action

00:54:41.700 and let's try to win for one another and let's, let's, let's collaborate. Let's come together.

00:54:46.420 And, and, and what he's talking about in terms of leadership or exactly that a good leader is the

00:54:51.900 one that is the first in the pit to go and dig the shit out and, and then show the people who want to

00:54:59.440 help that he's willing to do the hardest job. And, and that's key at the same time. Um, there is a

00:55:06.160 tendency in society today where people just kind of want to mail it in. And I think that's a result

00:55:11.760 of the, you know, the conveniences of the system that we have and people have been kind of sitting

00:55:16.180 on the sideline for a long time, but the time has come where if, you know, if you want to have a

00:55:21.820 future, um, you're going to have to throw your hat in there and get, and get dirty.

00:55:26.560 They really pushed over during the COVID times, right? They really pushed it hard for people to

00:55:30.900 stay in their homes and not be out there. Right. And stuff like that. So we already became a

00:55:35.140 very dependent society because of, you know, the technology and stuff like that, but they pushed

00:55:38.680 it even harder during COVID. So it's really bad now. Oh, it's, it's horrible now. And it's,

00:55:46.020 it's partly what makes me, I had the term for a long time, apocalyptically optimistic in the sense that,

00:55:54.080 um, COVID, but also the series of events that came prior and after, um, that the technology that

00:56:02.580 was set up and, and just, you know, how during COVID, uh, we just normalized the destruction of

00:56:08.560 small businesses. We normalized Amazon, you know, who doesn't buy stuff on Amazon, you know,

00:56:13.460 the conveniences that we have, uh, have really, really immobilized people, but also even on the

00:56:20.480 truth or side of things, you know, so many people have been so blackpilled for so long that they just

00:56:25.300 feel absolutely hopeless. I can't tell you how many years I've been hearing, um, oh, Curtis,

00:56:32.440 you know, they're going to come for you anyways. It's just, you're Ruby Ridge, you know, there's

00:56:36.700 no point of trying. And it's just like, fuck you, man. That's, that, that's the life you want to live

00:56:42.520 is just throw the towel in now and just give up. And so I, I see tremendous hope, but I, but I don't

00:56:48.840 care about being right. I just care about winning for mine and my own. And perhaps my greater,

00:56:54.440 greater community. And I think that's what these guys are doing. And, and it's really inspiring.

00:56:59.140 I think, you know, people should be taking notes on, on, on the contracts that they're using.

00:57:04.940 And, um, I think really to another thing Arvel said that really kind of got my mind going

00:57:09.240 is because I've often thought about, you know, how do we take care of the sick? Really? I mean,

00:57:13.720 I'm not a socialist. Um, at the same time, I recognize that collectivization should be used

00:57:20.920 in a perfect, in a perfect case to help others that can't help themselves. So how do we do that

00:57:25.840 on a community level and say a balkanization way? Well, one way to do it is Arvel was kind of already

00:57:31.300 alluding to how they have a fund where an elite membership where you can pay into,

00:57:36.880 and then other communities that do the same thing around can also be part of that so that

00:57:42.480 you can, we can fund something that goes wrong in a legal sense, but we could also do the same in a

00:57:48.180 medical sense in the sense that you could essentially create another PMA layer. And maybe

00:57:53.880 they've already done something like this. I'm curious what his thoughts would be on this idea,

00:57:57.200 but you create another type of PMA. That's essentially a medical plan where people just

00:58:01.280 pay into, and there's a trust, uh, that holds the money and there's a board of directors that manages

00:58:05.680 the money. And, you know, anytime one of our brothers and sisters, um, gets injured or, um,

00:58:13.940 incapacitated to the point that they can't afford it or take care of themselves,

00:58:17.680 that's what we do. We, we, we put that money towards that, that, that person and we help them.

00:58:22.440 And this is not, none of these ideas are new, really. They're, they're, they're not even exclusive

00:58:26.960 to, uh, communities of certain ethnicities doing it. It's just this for white people because it's

00:58:32.420 been so faux pas for so long to even talk about this. And so I'm kind of curious what you think

00:58:38.940 about that brother, uh, Arvel, like as far as cooperating in a way like that to help each other

00:58:44.160 with our medical bills and such. Yeah, I think it's a great idea and we have discussed it. It's

00:58:49.620 just a matter of what we are able to do in our current state. A lot of it is just like waiting

00:58:54.860 on the technical apparatus, you know, for our website to be able to track all the membership

00:59:00.380 details, uh, adequately to set up something like that. There's a lot of infrastructure involved

00:59:05.620 in something like the idea is, is excellent. And we do intend to implement something like that.

00:59:11.140 Fraternal benefit societies actually usually have some kind of insurance fund built into them.

00:59:18.360 And it's a great idea financially, even if you're not an identitarian, um, like to be in a medical

00:59:24.960 insurance pool with people that have demonstrated some level of effort to even make that step to get

00:59:32.240 into an association, you know, cause in the general economy with Medicaid, Medicare, I mean,

00:59:39.480 we're paying to subsidize the health of people who aren't taking care of themselves at all,

00:59:46.120 who have no agency whatsoever. So even having the, the lowest possible barrier to entry to joining an

00:59:53.900 association, you're going to get people who on average are far healthier, you know? And so just

00:59:59.060 naturally, if you're only paying for people who are a little bit healthier than the general population,

01:00:03.840 well, then your insurance is going to be less expensive than the general population. Um, it's

01:00:09.120 totally legal. It's totally doable. It's just a matter of, uh, actually being able to manage

01:00:14.260 something like that. And to what you said about, um, I guess the effort required and sort of our sloth,

01:00:22.460 I would say that's the, the really core vice of Western civilization. It's a lack of loyalty to each

01:00:29.220 other. And it's sloth, unfortunately. Um, you know, it's, it's something that it's very hard to

01:00:36.700 overcome on a personal level because part of, I think what feeds into that is that we're doing this

01:00:43.780 on a recreational basis. Like we're talking about what we really care about after work, you know,

01:00:49.920 after we've relaxed for the day and we're letting our mind go and we, it's fun to kick around ideas and

01:00:56.100 talk about how much better things could be after you've just put in a 10 hour shift, you know, but

01:01:02.040 it's, you, you need to also make that talk of the world that we could have be real productive work

01:01:10.340 time. And that means having real hierarchies where you're accountable to other people. Um, I mean, we

01:01:16.700 like spending our, our free time, however we want and sacrificing that freedom and organizing in a larger

01:01:24.880 system. It's raining real heavy. I don't know if you can hear that. Um, it, that requires humility

01:01:30.220 as well, um, to overcome that sloth and just recognize the, uh, the necessity. Is it real loud?

01:01:37.960 Let me know. Cause it's, it's real loud. It's tolerable. It's raining heavy. Yeah. You can kind of hear it,

01:01:43.060 but it's fine. I love it. Yeah. That's, that's our, that's the Arkansas. It adds a bit of an

01:01:47.640 ambiance to the discussion. Totally. It's one of those apps. Yeah. On your phone, you have to

01:01:55.520 listen to the rainfall. We're getting it through Arbel's phone. Um, sorry, you were talking about

01:02:01.060 hierarchies and being accountable. Arbel, I didn't know if you wanted to finish that thought.

01:02:04.860 Yeah. If the rain lets me, um, so yeah, I mean, we, in order to, uh, organize effectively,

01:02:16.920 you have to delegate leadership and decide on things that you might not yourself personally

01:02:23.200 agree. This is the, I think the main reason that leftist communes or central communities fall apart

01:02:28.520 is they, they think they can do everything on the basis of consensus and you can't, you know,

01:02:33.700 someone has to be in charge. You should be able to replace the person in charge by either democratic

01:02:39.780 mechanisms or meritocratic mechanisms. You know, if you want to set some kind of standardized tests,

01:02:45.400 uh, that leaders have to pass in order to get into leadership, I think that's fine. The military

01:02:50.500 is sort of like that. And until very recently, the military was one of the most effective hierarchical

01:02:55.540 institutions in the world. You know, the U S military, I was in the army and I, you know,

01:03:01.260 I learned that respect for the chain of command. Even if you didn't have personal respect for the

01:03:06.960 person that you were following, you recognize that for the institution to function for us to win.

01:03:12.580 And that victory is what matters. You just have to, you know, have someone be the appointment,

01:03:18.640 have someone be calling the shots and then everyone else has to get behind it now. But we do this on our

01:03:25.120 off time. And yeah, we're, we're not the most like agreeable bunch. The fact that we came to radical

01:03:32.340 views means that all of us on average are a little bit less agreeable within the general population.

01:03:39.500 So we have this group of like relatively disagreeable, highly intelligent, opinionated people

01:03:44.920 that are all talking on their off time during the recreational hours. It's just not setting us up for

01:03:52.280 the productive, really focused, effortful kind of action that we really need. But that's why we have

01:03:59.600 to move beyond social media space, which is recreational and disorganized into institutional

01:04:06.080 space, which means joining orgs that have very clear directives and clear hierarchies.

01:04:12.800 That dude, that's, that's so awesome. I got a question for you in terms of sort of a shotgun clause,

01:04:18.980 if you will, I'm just kind of curious, what a scenario would look like in like this in your

01:04:22.920 organization, I'm sure you have an answer for it. But let's say somebody comes into the PMA,

01:04:27.300 and they, you know, spend $100,000 building a house, and they put the infrastructure in and all

01:04:32.700 that. What happens if there is some kind of disagreement, where that person has to leave,

01:04:40.380 and they basically want to sell their shares? How does that get handled? And what's the sort of

01:04:48.600 the procedure on where that starts and where it goes?

01:04:54.740 Yes, we do have procedures in place, if that were to rise. Luckily, it hasn't come up yet.

01:05:02.000 But effectively, we would hire an assessor, an outside assessor, just like you would have an assessor

01:05:07.600 come in and evaluate the value of your personal property, your real estate, we would do the same,

01:05:13.680 evaluate the improvements on the lot, evaluate the value of the land as if it was an independent

01:05:18.080 parcel. And then we are collectively on the hook of coming up with that amount of money, or more.

01:05:26.580 So at first, I mean, they have the right to simply offer their share for sale in the PMA generally,

01:05:33.140 of course, only PMA members can buy it. But if for whatever reason, no PMA member wanted to buy

01:05:40.660 that share, then the LLC would be on the hook to pay fair market value. We thought that was the

01:05:47.500 fairest way to handle it. And also the best way to kind of dissuade that fear that some might have

01:05:54.040 that they're going to invest everything in this project and then not get it back. And we don't want

01:05:58.360 that fear to be grounded. So that's, that's the way we've decided to handle it. And you know,

01:06:03.980 you might wonder, well, what if the LLC doesn't have the resources, and we have processes in place

01:06:09.640 in that contingency as well, where we would be allowed to pay back monthly over a certain period

01:06:16.340 of time, a reasonable period of time, not like a 300 year period to pay back the value of that lot,

01:06:22.500 but, you know, in a matter of a matter of a few years, at most. So that's what we thought of,

01:06:29.280 but we're always open to feedback as, as far as, you know, what, what better kind of practices can

01:06:36.600 we have in place. And that's why we have a lot of meetings, a lot of discussions about all this

01:06:41.360 with our members.

01:06:42.620 Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting, because it's certainly something that, you know, if somebody's

01:06:47.080 going to invest, they would want to think about that. However, I think there's got, there's got

01:06:52.700 to be a certain amount of understood risks associated with this kind of thing that, because

01:06:57.300 it could, it wouldn't be fair, you know, if I think about just kind of the adjudication of this,

01:07:02.560 you know, some guy all of a sudden, maybe something really terrible happens in his life,

01:07:07.440 and he has to leave. But then the association just doesn't have the cash to put up. I mean,

01:07:14.300 there's got to be some level of understanding on both sides that, hey, like, we're sorry that

01:07:21.240 this happened to you. And we're sorry that you have to leave, but we can't go bankrupt to buy you

01:07:26.660 out. So there's going to have to be some kind of for level of forgiveness that it'll have to sit for

01:07:32.740 a while until the funds can be come up with or something like that. Right. And it sounds like

01:07:36.360 you've got something like that kind of in place.

01:07:37.980 And also, it's important that we don't promise to pay everyone back if they volunteer,

01:07:44.140 voluntarily decide to leave. If circumstances arise, and people just have to leave the community,

01:07:49.820 like we're not on the hook in that case, because that's your free will decision. And if no one wants

01:07:54.560 to buy your parcel, and you put it up for sale, like, that's sort of on you. That's like any other

01:07:59.160 real estate transaction. But if we specifically kick you out, because you violated our policies,

01:08:03.980 then we're on the hook. And we thought that was the fair way to go.

01:08:08.020 Right, that makes sense. Another question I have for you regarding the specifics of

01:08:12.780 what you guys define as, and I've actually heard you talk about this a little bit, but I think it

01:08:19.100 just might be interesting for people in the space to hear it, is what are your criteria as far as

01:08:25.000 ethnic origins and the details of that as far as your guys' community? And I'll just sort of

01:08:31.800 preface that, you know, I recognize that these ideas, and I put this out to people to say, like,

01:08:39.700 don't get hung up. If Arval has ideas that you don't agree with, then take the best and leave

01:08:47.600 the rest, you know? Just because they're doing it one way doesn't mean you have to do it that way.

01:08:53.260 But I'm just kind of curious, like, what is that for you as far as is like ethnic heritage?

01:08:58.400 Is it like, what's your definition of white? What does that include? I know you said like the

01:09:05.360 European stock and all that, does that include people from Spain, Portugal, Italy? Like, what is

01:09:11.720 it? What is it for you guys?

01:09:15.240 Yeah, as we've self defined in our founding documents, we are a European heritage association.

01:09:22.360 So people from Turkey would be out, people from Spain would be in, you know, even southern Italians.

01:09:30.040 I guess the exception would be if you're from that part of the world, but you have substantial

01:09:35.320 ancestry from another part of the world, then it would be arguable whether you meet those conditions.

01:09:41.200 So we're, we're a European heritage association. Um, but also like we, we are an American,

01:09:50.080 we're based in America. And so the white American identity is sort of the core and we recognize that.

01:09:56.400 Did we lose them? Uh, maybe. Oh yeah. The G tech got them. Yeah.

01:10:11.600 Arvel, Arvel, you might have to cycle out. Cause you know, the, um, the grid's going down, the grid's going down. Yeah.

01:10:19.200 Yeah. We'll bring, we'll bring you right back. Um, Oh, Curtis, you know, Postine are thinking that you guys, um, sound so great together.

01:10:29.040 It's like, wow, I think we're creating our own North American agreement. Like forget Greenland and, you know, Trump and stuff like this.

01:10:36.740 It's like, all right, we got it.

01:10:38.040 Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. I'll tell you what, um, I have been, my mind is, I'm just a busy mind.

01:10:46.180 And ever since I got back from, uh, Calgary, my mind has just been going crazy. I drove down there.

01:10:53.820 So, you know, when you're driving, you got time to think of, I'm going to come out with some stuff soon.

01:10:57.560 I don't want to make any announcements yet, but I've got some pretty big plans that I want to lay down for people.

01:11:03.640 Cause I, I, I, I see some, I've always been a solutions orientated guy.

01:11:07.780 And I guess you could say I'm an eternal optimist, but I, but I do see some serious, uh, solutions.

01:11:15.080 I kind of laid down some of them in the last space that I did myself.

01:11:18.780 I kind of laid out three things, but, um, I think, uh, yeah, I, you know, I get excited about this too,

01:11:26.120 because I actually frankly want to have more reasons to join up with American, uh, people.

01:11:33.660 I've always, I've done business in the U S for 10 years and I've always liked Americans.

01:11:39.120 I rode my bike from Kelowna to Tijuana once it took me two and a half months.

01:11:43.120 And I, at that time I was still a bit of a liberal leftist.

01:11:47.080 And I always kind of believed the propaganda to some degree, not, not so much, but I was just so

01:11:52.400 pleasantly surprised on how generous and overall good people are in America.

01:11:59.340 And Canadians share the same overall. Uh, the thing that I like about Americans is that,

01:12:04.780 you know, Canadians are, are polite and maybe a little bit shy. Um, Americans are not so polite,

01:12:11.700 but they're very outgoingly, uh, generous in general. Of course, it varies from place to place

01:12:17.440 as it would here in Canada. But I've always found reasons that, that we need to join up with our,

01:12:23.780 with our brothers and sisters down there just because per capita, there are so many more freedom

01:12:31.660 fighters and truthers and just proper right wingers in the U S than there are in Canada. And, you know,

01:12:39.080 I, I, whether Canadians have a constitutional convention, which I doubt is going to happen,

01:12:43.360 but I've, I've got some ideas on how we could make that happen. Um, or we joined the United States.

01:12:48.840 I think overall, we're going to be better off with creating partnerships, cross border with

01:12:55.440 Americans doing this, doing similar things because we're all in this together. These,

01:13:00.580 these immigrants are being pumped into all of our cities. It's not just Canadian cities. It's not

01:13:04.640 just American cities. It's entire, it's the entire continent. Um, yeah, you need to come down and visit

01:13:11.240 us for an event. And then when you get, get going with your plans, we need to come up and visit you and

01:13:17.420 do some kind of work party. Absolutely brother. And I mean, I'll even extend to you. Um, if you

01:13:24.080 want to cut me, my, I'm pretty proud of my homestead. It's been four years doing this and it's, you know,

01:13:29.280 accumulation of the things that I've learned in the previous 10 years with my farming. But if you ever

01:13:33.720 want to come up here with your wife and kids, I've got a guest house. You're more than welcome to come

01:13:38.120 up for a weekend or a week, even check things out. I'll give you a full tour of all the systems,

01:13:42.960 the off-grid systems, the gardening systems, the water systems, the fencing systems, you name it.

01:13:47.300 Everything. Uh, I w I would be more than, um, willing to help you guys pro bono as much as

01:13:54.240 humanly possible. Cause I believe in what you're doing and I, and I want to take elements of what

01:13:58.580 you're doing down there and do them up here more on the community side of things. I think I

01:14:03.880 definitely probably have more in terms of like the physical infrastructure and stuff like that.

01:14:09.080 Cause that's been my forte for many, many years, but what you guys are doing, uh, with the PMA

01:14:15.080 and your structure is absolutely inspiring. Yeah. And we'd love to learn from those homesteading

01:14:22.080 skills. I mean, some of us are into permaculture and have some background. Uh, yeah, I had my own

01:14:28.320 land before some of us had our own lands and our own agricultural operations going. Uh, but absolutely,

01:14:34.180 if you could come down and teach some kind of seminar on what you've learned homesteading,

01:14:38.760 that'd be so valuable. And, and likewise, if we can help, you know, get more communities, uh,

01:14:45.080 organized in Canada, absolutely. Well, so. Right on.

01:14:50.580 Frig posty. I'm like, bringing the world together for white people.

01:14:55.800 Uh, so like, you know, and it's interesting. I, I, I don't know Arvel, but I wonder, you know,

01:15:03.600 sometimes as he, he grew up like a philosophy major in California, he's kind of a disagreeable

01:15:11.000 army guy and probably didn't see that this is what he would be doing right now in 2025. Um,

01:15:18.120 you know, it's amazing how like all of these different sides of you come together so that in

01:15:23.980 this scenario, you need all of those traits and it totally works. Um, Arvel, I'm wondering like

01:15:32.040 about some, some particular things, like as far as the rules within, um, within your community,

01:15:38.960 where are you guys at with alcohol and where are you guys at with drugs?

01:15:44.700 Well, we don't allow drug use. Um, I think the language is open drug use. If people are functional

01:15:51.500 and it's not known to the rest of the community, we don't want to be searching people's houses,

01:15:57.420 you know? So, um, as far as alcohol, there is some alcohol consumption at events. Uh, sometimes it

01:16:07.240 has gotten a little bit too far and we try to self-regulate that and, and, you know, walk it

01:16:11.400 back. Um, I try to keep my alcohol consumption at a minimum. And I think, you know, that should

01:16:18.260 be the general policy. Um, but it is an ancestral part of how communities have gotten together and

01:16:26.540 formed strong bonds. And there's, you know, something to be said for not really knowing

01:16:31.240 someone until you've kind of known them in both states of mind, both sober and a little bit

01:16:35.720 intoxicated. Um, but yeah, in the past we had rituals around that and there were rules and there

01:16:41.840 was an etiquette to drinking. Um, and now, you know, you can buy as much alcohol, as much hard

01:16:47.860 liquor as you want and, and really just go way too far with it. And so I think our, our guiding

01:16:52.920 principle is simply when it becomes visible, when it becomes something that affects other community

01:16:57.840 members, then we step in and the first step would be a warning. And then beyond that, eventually it

01:17:03.860 would move to, you know, you're no longer a good fit for the community.

01:17:07.120 Well, and I kind of liked that idea because then it's, it's encouraging people, you know,

01:17:11.500 self-regulation, like not having to have a daddy state or mom, you know, nanny state looking over

01:17:15.560 your behavior, like as a proud, you know, white man or woman, you should, you know, know better than

01:17:20.760 to, to let it get out of hand. So I kind of appreciate that because, you know, over-regulation

01:17:25.540 you're, then you might as well be living in the world we are now with our current governments.

01:17:30.200 Yeah. It's Sharia law. Like, you know what I mean? Like people should learn to be, you know,

01:17:34.340 whining. Well, and that's how we got all these ridiculous laws, like about how you can't do

01:17:38.460 this and you can't do that all because people, you know, don't manage themselves and we don't let

01:17:42.680 the, how do you put it? Natural selection take its course. You know what I mean?

01:17:47.860 The law has to be written in people's hearts. That is where the majority of obeisance of the law

01:17:54.200 comes from. It's habituation and how people are raised. And we have to focus on culture and values

01:18:00.620 and the law, the explicit written law is only this very kind of subsidiary after the fact

01:18:08.940 thing to correct where the, the more basic and foundational aspects of law go wrong.

01:18:16.580 I also wanted to ask, okay, so drugs and alcohol got it now, like in regards to mental health,

01:18:22.840 because I do think that a lot of us find ourselves, you know, like years ago, you would

01:18:30.420 never found me in these circles. And yet five years later, here I am. And it did kind of start

01:18:35.920 with COVID and I've been pushed further and further to the right into nationalist circles,

01:18:41.320 the more I become aware of. And I think that sometimes it really has an effect on people's

01:18:48.140 mental health, kind of knowing too much. And so how do you screen or vet for, you know,

01:18:55.000 mental health, is this just somebody who wants to be a free man on the land versus somebody who's

01:19:01.020 not going to be able to, you know, function because they're a little bit too out there?

01:19:08.220 We're gaining experience in that as we go on, you know, we talk to a lot of applicants, we have

01:19:13.720 interviews with them and we look at their writing, you know, you have to submit a written application.

01:19:19.540 So we have some basic idea of who this person is and how they think. And then we have an interview

01:19:23.740 with them. And, you know, we can admit people to the PMA. That doesn't necessarily mean that they

01:19:29.240 will become eligible to buy into the land itself, you know, either community one or any future

01:19:34.540 community in order to actually come down here and live with us. You know, you have to visit first,

01:19:39.940 obviously. And there have been cases where people have come down and we've really seen their

01:19:45.680 personality and recognize that, you know, this isn't going to be a good fit.

01:19:48.740 Um, so we're beginning to see the signs earlier and earlier, you know, there've been some people

01:19:56.100 lately who we ended up rejecting at the PMA level who in the past, probably we would have allowed to

01:20:02.260 actually come down here and we would have found out the hard way, so to speak. Um, it, a lot of it

01:20:08.800 is simply how you talk, how self-aware you seem. Probably self-awareness is like the number one

01:20:16.740 feature that you should be looking for, uh, for sanity. If someone just has like delusional

01:20:22.740 self-conceptions, they're going to be deluded about a lot of other things and probably problematic

01:20:28.180 for others. That's so key. Um, I'll tell you as, um, in my, in my earlier days of, um, touring around

01:20:36.840 the world, promoting my book, um, back then I got to work with a lot of these different societies and

01:20:43.240 foundations. And, um, uh, what, what Arvel just said is so key is this, the lack of self-awareness

01:20:50.840 that a lot of people have. And the, the, the problem that you can get into is you, you get

01:20:56.240 together with some people and you sit around and you, you get excited about some ideas and you say,

01:21:01.140 let's do this thing. And, and you do the thing without really vetting each other. And, and then you

01:21:08.500 get into this, you know, you get into money, you get into time and equity. And then the, the little

01:21:15.220 personality quirks bubble to the surface and you find out that, oh my goodness, what did we get

01:21:21.860 into with this guy or this girl? And it becomes this social drama, uh, little tidbit I can give

01:21:28.060 as a piece of advice that I've seen work many, many times, uh, for the, for the people in the space

01:21:33.360 here is if you want to find out if a group that you've, you know, connected with has what it takes

01:21:39.960 and you want to figure out who's who in the group, try to set up a situation like the show survival as

01:21:46.860 best as you can. And so what you do is go on a one week camping trip. So if you got say 10, 20 people

01:21:54.580 that you really want to, you're jiving with and you're like, these ideas are great. Let's do this.

01:21:59.580 Go on a one week camping trip with these people and then, and then see how, how people turn when,

01:22:06.960 you know, like Arville said, maybe after a couple of drinks, um, or also a really rainy night when

01:22:12.480 people can't get into their tent, they can't get their tent set up quick enough. And the proverbial

01:22:17.040 shit hits the fan. You want to see how people act and react and operate under pressure when times

01:22:24.820 aren't good. And when there's a little bit, and when there's a little bit of tension, you want to

01:22:30.420 kind of see how people sort themselves out. And the, you know, the, the, the old TV show, I don't know

01:22:36.000 if it's still on, but that show survivor, uh, is, is a great example of that just in that social

01:22:42.280 dynamics and hierarchies really come out when times get tough. And, and that's an inevitability.

01:22:48.820 If you're going to get into any type of partnership agreement with people I've, I've told, uh, consulting

01:22:54.680 clients of mine for years, especially when I was setting up farms, um, to do that, you know,

01:23:00.900 you're going to start a farm. Maybe it's two couples that want to start a farm together,

01:23:04.180 go on a one week camping trip together and really, and do something fairly ambitious. Like maybe that

01:23:10.800 camping trip involves a hike in and it really involves some work because you want to see how people

01:23:17.660 act when they got to pull their weight, you know, like imagine, imagine going on a camping

01:23:23.200 trip with people and everybody's got to carry a certain amount of gear. Okay. So it's a two hour

01:23:29.340 hike in uphill. What do some people start doing when they can't carry all their gear? What, what

01:23:35.580 happens? Do they, are they throwing it all on their husband or vice versa? Or, you know, what happens

01:23:41.100 to people under pressure? Because if you, if you can try to expose those little idiosyncrasies,

01:23:47.660 and people's personality early in the game, you can save yourself a world of hurt when you've got

01:23:53.960 a lot of skin in the game and there's a lot at stake. And now you're realizing, oh my goodness,

01:23:59.820 this guy, we need to get him out of here. So if you can figure that out earlier on, all the better.

01:24:05.720 Yeah. I think the true test of someone's character is a crisis, right? Of how they react to in a crisis

01:24:10.300 or an emergency. That's amazing advice and so good to hear. And really, I hadn't thought about

01:24:18.440 it as explicitly as that, but it is what we ended up doing because how the founders got together was

01:24:24.560 like a week long camping work party activity. And then we have events that go for a week and people

01:24:31.600 camp here and we have work parties during the events. So the context where we're meeting people

01:24:36.640 and getting to know them is trying to get something done, something difficult, something physical.

01:24:41.540 So I totally agree. Thanks for the clarity on that. I really hadn't thought about it like that.

01:24:46.040 And I would even add, because another thing that I've seen just over the years working with different

01:24:50.840 groups is that there's nothing wrong with sorting the men and the women. Like in the sense that you,

01:25:00.040 just because we're all, men and women are very different. I mean, everybody in the space gets that,

01:25:04.360 I'm sure. Because the roles of men and women are generally speaking going to fall within

01:25:11.640 the lines that we all understood, understand in a traditional way. So, you know, if it's say a two

01:25:20.320 week camping or a one week camping trip, maybe the guys just go on one and then maybe the girls do

01:25:26.420 another thing. Like the wives do another thing. The husbands do one thing. Maybe you do one thing

01:25:31.020 all together. But, you know, sometimes you have to accept that there's going to be within the,

01:25:37.500 you know, the nuanced context of human relationships. When it comes to couples,

01:25:43.100 sometimes the couple dynamics don't really need to dictate the outcome of the group. That if you sort

01:25:51.060 the men and the women and then see how they perform, you'll probably find that there's a lot

01:25:57.760 more cohesion that way. That's just at least what I've seen. Of course, you know, I'm not laying this

01:26:04.160 down as a steadfast rule. Do what you want. Like I said, take the best, leave the rest. But I find

01:26:09.440 that in general is a better way to approach it too, is kind of sort the sexes and then see how people

01:26:15.120 operate. Yeah. You're reminding me, my son showed me a survivor video because they don't watch

01:26:23.220 survivor anymore. But I think they set the men and women off into camps to survive for a week.

01:26:29.160 And the guys were like killing alligators and building fires and they were eating like kings

01:26:34.540 and the women were starving and they were getting like pneumonia and then they couldn't get a fire

01:26:39.780 going. They were like dehydrated messes. So, you know, maybe not sending them both off into gendered

01:26:46.880 camping trips because it's not necessarily the best result.

01:26:49.900 Well, that's exactly it. And there might be a better way to do it in the sense that

01:26:56.140 there could be, you know, because like what I've observed and just working with, you know,

01:27:02.360 and learning about intentional communities all these years is that, you know, women and men,

01:27:06.740 generally speaking, sort themselves out accordingly. Like you'll notice this if you have a party,

01:27:11.240 you know, you've got like a bunch of friends over. It doesn't take long for the women to kind of go

01:27:16.400 on their side and the men are on their side. That's just kind of how we organize ourselves.

01:27:20.720 And so there could be an appropriate activity that might be better for the women to do than the men.

01:27:26.860 Right. And so, you know, a real rustic camping trip, that's most guys are into that kind of thing.

01:27:31.220 And so certainly some women are too. And if you can do it as a group, that's fine. But there's all

01:27:36.240 kinds of other things that women can do together that will bring out the personality characteristics

01:27:41.840 that you want to see in strong female leadership in a community. Because one of the things that women

01:27:47.520 are really good at in community is, is sitting together and doing, doing activities that are

01:27:55.780 somewhat tedious. Like women are just better at using their, their fingers and hands. Men are more

01:28:01.220 just like, you know, brute force moving things, moving objects, carpentry, building, shoveling,

01:28:07.080 et cetera. Women are good at sorting and, and, and organizing things. And so sometimes I think

01:28:14.760 exactly, exactly. And so if you can facilitate things like that to happen, and maybe an idea for

01:28:20.960 people like who are trying to figure out how they move forward with ideas like this is you just,

01:28:26.240 you know, on Arvel's land, they could basically facilitate things like that community building

01:28:32.820 projects or, or, or some kind of stuff that men and women can do where you can kind of see who's

01:28:39.060 who. I'll tell you, one of the best ways to find out, uh, what people are made of is bring them to a,

01:28:45.020 uh, an animal butchering. So, you know, if you've never done meat birds, bring people in to, to process

01:28:51.880 birds. And that's a real quick way to find out who's got a stomach, um, for things and who's willing

01:28:58.680 to get their hands dirty because, and the, and even the neat thing about that process itself is

01:29:03.300 it also sorts itself out fairly well. I find generally speaking, the men will be able to do

01:29:09.900 the brutal things. Uh, and that's the stuff I usually do is I'll go round up the birds.

01:29:14.920 I'll chop their heads off. I'll throw them in the boiler and then I'll get them in the chicken

01:29:19.400 plucker. And then the women are handling the s'more, the smaller stuff, like gutting them and,

01:29:24.240 and, and, you know, cutting the pieces out and stuff. It's a great community activity.

01:29:28.680 That, you know, most people on homesteads are going to do at some point. And it's a,

01:29:32.600 it's a really good way to just kind of see where people land.

01:29:38.160 Yeah, we, uh, slaughtered a goat at one of our recent events as well. And I agree totally that

01:29:44.400 like female leadership is different and it's extremely important to get a community functioning

01:29:50.740 properly. So all of the meals for our events, that's almost exclusively organized by the women

01:29:58.000 and they have their own meetings and they discuss and they have their own kind of hierarchy that they

01:30:03.040 form. And I mean, the same goes for childcare as well. Um, men have a certain domain of responsibility

01:30:10.480 and they have to have their own hierarchy in that domain. And, um, you have to encourage and celebrate

01:30:17.140 female leadership as well. You know, it's not like being conservative means women should be submissive

01:30:24.220 in all contexts. No, when you have a traditional community, there are things that the women have

01:30:29.080 to organize to do, and you need female leaders to do that well. So that's a, that's a skill to

01:30:34.520 cultivate and a character trait that you should be looking for. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's a

01:30:40.200 competence, right? That we need amongst us women. Yes. And I think, you know, one thing women do very

01:30:47.240 well, uh, is organizing social events, organizing, uh, parties, gatherings, things like that. Uh,

01:30:54.400 I've often found, you know, when we've done stuff like that up at our place, I just let the women

01:30:59.040 pretty much take care of all of that and everything goes great. And so, yeah, it is about in my, from,

01:31:05.820 for me, it really is about being honest about what those, those, uh, strong characteristics are in,

01:31:11.980 in the sexes and, and encouraging them to flourish. Um, and yeah, it's, yeah, don't really have much to

01:31:20.260 say, but it's just one more thing to add on to what you were saying, Curtis, starting putting people

01:31:26.800 in extreme situations. Uh, another more subtle, uh, one is, is a bit of a character test. And I used to

01:31:34.700 tell my friends who were dating people online, go into that online dating thing, because it's such a mess,

01:31:40.740 but to do a bit of a character test. Face, you're roboting a bit. Am I? Face? Yeah. Some of your

01:31:51.700 words we can't, uh, pick up. Oh, okay. Well, okay. Let me move. Let me see if it makes a difference.

01:31:59.340 You're better now. You're good. Better now? Yeah, much better. So repeat what you were saying.

01:32:04.880 So, sorry. So people in the online world who are dating and it's a character test and you kind of

01:32:12.600 just subject somebody to disappointment, you know, it doesn't have to be devastating and life altering,

01:32:18.900 but you just disappoint them a bit and see what happens. And people with poor character react

01:32:25.940 terribly. And you kind of see right away, um, how they're going to be when faced with,

01:32:32.480 you know, stress. And so that's another, another form of testing people, I suppose.

01:32:39.340 Hey ladies, how, how much longer do you guys want to run this space? I just asked,

01:32:44.080 cause I might have to duck out at some point soon. Do you, do you, do you guys want to do some

01:32:49.680 questions with others or what, what are you thinking? Yeah, for sure. Like 30 more minutes.

01:32:55.360 Yeah. Well, if we can push it, I'm down for 30. Is that good for you? Oh, it looks like he dropped

01:33:02.760 down to listener there. Yeah. That'll work. I think I'm still, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There you are.

01:33:07.900 Sounds good. I guess I just, before we move to. So the boys have opened the floor and we'll just,

01:33:14.200 we'll start accepting requests and Posty, you go ahead. Well, the requests are coming up if there's any.

01:33:19.260 I just wanted to, and this may be more of a philosophical or I don't know, uh, kind of

01:33:24.140 question, but like, what do you envision and maybe like five years, uh, Arville for the return to the

01:33:29.260 land? Like, do you envision maybe it being in more, uh, states, different states and having more

01:33:34.280 communities? Yeah. More states, more communities, more types of properties as well. More urban facilities,

01:33:43.380 more lodges. I think, uh, we'd like to move towards a lodge and community model where there are event

01:33:51.560 venues, there are places to gather, and then there are the communities. Um, you know, you can have

01:33:57.620 events in communities, but I think it'd be nice to specialize a little bit more and maybe get some

01:34:01.580 attractive event venues as well. Like, you know, sometimes small pieces of land go up for sale

01:34:08.500 that have river frontage, for example, and we can have, you know, on the river kind of activities for

01:34:14.580 events, um, or things of that nature. Um, I'd like to move towards a more organized homeschooling

01:34:21.720 network. We've made some attempts in that regard, and it is very difficult because different mothers

01:34:27.320 and fathers have different priorities and expectations and ways of organizing their kids'

01:34:33.240 schedules and going about it. Um, I'd like not to like dictate top down how we do things, but I'd

01:34:40.480 like to just find a better kind of balance and a workable model. A lot of it, like how we've ended

01:34:46.740 up doing things has been what has worked over time with multiple inputs and it's just sort of reached

01:34:53.180 an equilibrium and stabilized there. So I'd like that to happen with homeschooling and just for that to

01:34:58.400 be more organized. I'd also like to, this was like my initial ambition was to have a formal educational

01:35:05.640 institution for young men and women, you know, recent high school graduates before they go out

01:35:12.120 to college. I think we're, we're missing a key opportunity to inculcate our youth into our tradition.

01:35:19.560 And I think it's, it's the perfect kind of institution to, to mesh well with the community

01:35:24.160 framework because then, you know, young kids can come down and not just learn about classical Greek

01:35:29.500 philosophy or like classical music or, you know, whatever, uh, stuff that we'd be teaching there,

01:35:35.900 but also they would have access to the community and learn basic trade skills, construction, and,

01:35:41.900 and have, you know, paid work opportunities. There's always paid work to do here. So integrating

01:35:47.140 different kinds of properties, more, uh, more communities, obviously it'd be nice. And we're on track,

01:35:53.800 uh, to scale very, very quickly. I mean, growth has continued to be really positive and people are

01:36:01.700 always applying. It's, uh, we have to become more organized, uh, in the way that we process all of

01:36:08.760 that. Part of that is, you know, redesigning the website and having better software protocols to get

01:36:16.180 the workflow going right. Um, but yeah, just more bigger, more diverse, uh, activities that we're

01:36:25.180 engaged in. Um, and yeah, really, I'd like to see though, just a shift in the culture online to more

01:36:33.060 people wanting to do things in their own area. Um, and if we could help with that, like, that's what

01:36:39.020 we want to see. We want to see more attendance at our events and to have maybe like a national event

01:36:43.800 that becomes a standard thing. Uh, earlier this year, uh, I think it was January. Yeah, it was

01:36:49.440 January. Um, we had the intentional community conference and I'd like that to go IRL and rent

01:36:56.740 out a venue somewhere and, uh, and just make that a big thing. Um, I think we have to want to meet up

01:37:02.960 with, with each other and learn from each other and care about each other. Cause that's why we're in

01:37:07.380 this, right? We care about our identity because we care about each other. We're, you know, aware that we have

01:37:12.920 this deep familiarity and likeness because of our shared ancestry and shared values. And if we can't

01:37:21.240 use that as a reason to reach out and form relationships and, you know, grow real community

01:37:28.440 online, offline, uh, then what's the point, you know, then you really are just like some internet

01:37:34.880 racist and kind of a loser. Like let your internet racism be fodder for love and community and good.

01:37:41.440 Exactly. Dude, that's so, that's so good. Hey, I just want to, I want to throw something in there,

01:37:47.900 uh, as a resource. I mentioned this to Arvel the first time I connected with him. It might've been

01:37:52.440 in a, that 1488 space. Uh, and I'm not saying this is like a shameless self-promotion, but I, I,

01:37:58.900 my company does real estate assessments for broad acre homestead properties. And we publish

01:38:06.080 probably 20 to 30 a week that are all active listings. So I trained a team, um, a couple of

01:38:13.560 years, over a year ago now to basically do what I had done in private consulting for many years,

01:38:18.620 which is to help people find land and what, and what makes good characteristics for home setting

01:38:23.280 land. So basically considering all the four nexuses of human survival, food, water, energy,

01:38:28.160 shelter. And so I did that in my own process of finding my property and I've done it for people

01:38:33.020 for many years, but I trained a team to do it. And we publish a list and everything that we publish

01:38:38.500 is like a banger homestead. It has all the home hallmarks of what you need to live and thrive on the

01:38:45.180 land. And we have a grading system where it's ABC and an A property is like a turnkey, absolute

01:38:51.960 banger. It's got good infrastructure. It's got good soil. It's got good water. It's got good access.

01:38:58.040 It's got privacy from the road or offset from the road, things like that. Those are more

01:39:02.800 expensive. Then there's a B property, which is basically that, but a little bit of a fixer

01:39:08.340 upper has the hallmarks and it just needs work, a little bit of work. And then a C property is like

01:39:13.780 a bargain property that is almost raw land, has all the things you need for the basis,

01:39:20.060 but you need to build it. And so we publish that. So anybody who's curious, go on my list. We charge

01:39:25.180 50 bucks a month for this service, but I used to do this for $400 an hour for people. And so people can

01:39:31.800 go on my list and we have properties all over North America that are amazing homestead properties

01:39:39.040 that totally would accommodate exactly everything that Arval is talking about and could help people

01:39:45.700 get on the land faster. Because if you go to try to buy a property, it is a painstaking process.

01:39:52.420 You're scouting online, you're making a list and then you're filtering that list down. And then you're

01:39:57.300 spending days, weeks, months, years looking and driving around and visiting. We basically do 95%

01:40:05.280 of the looking by sourcing all the metrics. And then by the time you go and look, it's almost a

01:40:11.380 done deal. People rarely find issues with any properties we list. So I just wanted to put that

01:40:15.760 out there. That's a link in my profile because it would be extraordinarily helpful to anybody who wants

01:40:21.620 to get on the land fast because there are bargains out there. And some of the states, like in the US,

01:40:26.720 Arkansas, some of the best value that you can find for homesteads. Kentucky is also a really good one.

01:40:32.200 You can get Amish properties that are very easy to fix up, that have great foundations of infrastructure.

01:40:40.340 You know, you've got the corner of Oklahoma, the corner of Kansas, you can find decent properties too.

01:40:46.360 And even northeastern Washington on the west coast, some of the best value for homestead properties in

01:40:51.880 the US. So I just wanted to put that out there. People can check that link because it'd be very

01:40:55.620 helpful to a lot of people listening here. But let's open it up. That is so white. Yeah, that's

01:41:01.880 awesome. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I didn't know that you did that. It's just like a little

01:41:06.500 side gig you have. Well, it's actually been my main gig for a long time building that website.

01:41:12.200 But I, you know, after I found my property here, and I just realized how much time it spent,

01:41:18.800 how much months it took me to find this property driving all around the province.

01:41:23.600 And then I found this one. And then I'd done it in consulting for many years just for my farming

01:41:28.200 stuff. And then I just realized, man, there's a real system to this. And basically what I do is

01:41:33.580 I use what are called the 11 scales of permanence. And I go through climate number one, topography

01:41:41.180 number two, water number three, access and circulation number four, socioeconomic, so

01:41:47.460 on and so forth. We rate properties based on all those things. So like straight up, like we don't

01:41:53.240 advertise this, but we will not list a property that has bad socioeconomics. So I know I can say

01:41:59.240 this in this space, and it won't offend anybody. But if a property that you're looking at is close to

01:42:03.780 like a really urban, well, maybe not even super, super urban, but an area that has a lot of crime,

01:42:08.760 like black crime, we won't list it. Like we don't list any properties that are,

01:42:14.060 it's, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, I look at, I look at the socioeconomics as they, as the same as I do

01:42:19.620 is tornado alley. I mean, all of these things are, are threats to you, right? And so if you're picking a

01:42:26.160 homestead property, you really have to think about what are the threats on the property and off the

01:42:31.540 property and even in the greater community to you, right? If you want to survive and thrive,

01:42:36.440 you have to factor these things in. And I've seen so many times over the years where people buy

01:42:41.260 properties and then they get me to come out and see it. And then I go, my goodness, you bought the

01:42:46.620 wrong property. And it's just devastating for them because there was one or two things that they

01:42:51.380 overlooked that were so simple to find. And 99 times out of a hundred, they can be found online

01:42:57.660 and they can be identified. So you don't have to waste your time driving out to look at something

01:43:02.380 that the minute you drive in, you go, oh my God, look how close the gate is to the road. And look,

01:43:07.640 and you can see the house from here and things like that, that people just don't think about.

01:43:13.440 Well, there you go, everybody. That's phenomenal.

01:43:15.820 Now you know where to look for our white communities that we want to start.

01:43:20.600 Well, if you want it, so, I mean, I'm terrible at pulling stuff and putting it up on the nest,

01:43:24.880 but if somebody goes to that link, yeah, put it in the comments or put it in the thing. It's on the

01:43:30.060 link in my profile. Yeah. It takes you right there. And it'd be so helpful to all these people

01:43:35.520 that want to get out of the cities and make something like this happen. And, you know,

01:43:40.220 with, with a platform, like what Arval's doing with Return to the Land, these guys, we can now build

01:43:45.480 on the foundations of giants. They've got a platform, right? And so just take the best and leave the

01:43:52.760 rest. Right. And just, and just, this is so possible now. And, and, and anyways, I, I'm a guy

01:43:59.620 who's been talking about getting on the land with friends and buddies for literally 25 years. And

01:44:05.800 finally now with all the shit that's gone on in the world, that the sort of identity crisis has

01:44:11.700 brought us together, that now it's actually more doable. Like the idea that this is primarily,

01:44:17.160 you know, white nationalists that are coming and talking about this stuff. This is the exact

01:44:23.040 unifying North star that people need that all these other intentional communities don't have

01:44:28.960 all these hippie dippy intentional communities are a fucking joke. They all fall apart and they often

01:44:36.200 get lost in, in who's the leader, you know, whereas, you know, what Arval's talking about is

01:44:41.040 clearly defined leadership roles, right? Straight up meritocracies, very, very old world,

01:44:49.640 you know, European, why do the Europeans rule the world is because they had to get through a half a

01:44:54.180 year of winter. We had to, this is why the Protestant work ethic is so hardcore is that if you come from

01:44:59.640 those cold countries, historically, you had to work for six months straight to create a surplus to get

01:45:05.440 through the next six months. And that's, that's people unifying in that, that culture is, is

01:45:12.520 everything that is needed to, for more people to wake up and do this shit, because now there's that

01:45:17.440 North star. Well, it's like those autonomous zones they tried to have, right? And their quest to have

01:45:23.620 like a total democracy, or what they thought was a democracy, like it all fell apart, right? Because

01:45:28.600 like you said, everybody's competing for, you know, who's the leader, they want to be the leader, and

01:45:32.960 nobody can admit they're wrong, and they don't want to be humble. And it's all built on lies, and it's

01:45:36.980 all built on, basically, it's all built on people just not being honest, and saying, this guy is the

01:45:43.340 leader. He's the leader for this. It's that simple. All these hippie ones, they, oh, yeah, man, whatever,

01:45:48.820 we'll sort it out. No, no, no, you'll sort it out until the shit hits the fan, and then it all falls

01:45:52.880 apart. So the contracts, having written agreements, this is, this is everything for the, in order for

01:45:59.220 these to work. Yeah, getting it all laid up ahead. I wanted to, we only have a few minutes left, but I

01:46:07.120 did kind of want to, you know, ask Arvel about, you know, the sort of back and forth you had with Nick

01:46:14.940 Fuentes, someone who probably wouldn't survive out on the land on his own for too, too long. You know,

01:46:23.140 and, you know, if there's any follow-up or any future of a, yeah, like the future conversation

01:46:29.160 with him, where, where, what's the status of Fuentes and you? Oh, man. I don't really want to

01:46:36.100 talk about it, really. You know, there, I think I still have some respect for him as a host of his

01:46:46.640 program. I think no one does political commentary as well as he does. And, you know, I, I like him

01:46:53.720 personally. I said a lot of things that I meant, you know, that he's having a negative influence on

01:46:59.680 others. And he's not really, you know, as much a part of the white identity sphere as he is part of

01:47:08.520 this e-celebrity and kind of internet anti-Semitism sphere. He collaborates with people who aren't

01:47:16.500 really of us. I mean, he's, he steps outside and, and that gives him, you know, an advantage over

01:47:23.860 some people in our sphere where he can go out and make a, a big impact on the, the public

01:47:30.700 consciousness. And I don't want to diminish that. So I don't want to rag on him excessively. I just

01:47:36.500 wanted to point out where I think he was going most wrong, which was his un-Christian advocacy

01:47:43.040 of very worldly things over something like humility, community building, like the value of an,

01:47:53.560 an honest day's work. And, and I think he should absolutely, if he's going to call himself a

01:48:01.100 Christian, promote those basic Christian values. Like I really don't understand how you could

01:48:06.160 read the gospels and, and read what Jesus actually taught himself and then go on to think that,

01:48:13.920 you know, respecting, uh, Andrew Tate and Kanye West is the way to go and sucking up to...

01:48:21.160 Hey, can I, can I make a quick comment on that while he's coming back?

01:48:35.220 Yeah, yeah, go there.

01:48:36.280 I watched, I watched a little bit of that go down and I think it comes down to, there's sort

01:48:41.140 of two, um, separation, um, ideologies that are kind of coming to the surface now. And

01:48:48.580 I, I call it one is stand and fight and the other is exit and build. And so I think Fuentes

01:48:56.780 and that whole school of guys and political commentary is all, it's, it's what it's stand

01:49:02.480 and fight in that they basically just, they're saying, we got to get control of politics. We got

01:49:07.940 to get control of the economic power institutions. We got to get into influential positions and

01:49:12.880 basically just go at sort of politics, culture, uh, and economics. Whereas Arvel and I are more

01:49:20.060 on the exit and build side where we're just saying, okay, not only do we have to like, yeah, sure.

01:49:25.940 You can play politics and economics and culture, all that. But if you don't have food, water, energy,

01:49:32.160 and shelter, then the system's always going to be able to leverage you and throttle

01:49:37.920 you. And so that's where there's this great divide. Cause a lot of these guys just think

01:49:42.900 all the solutions is in stand and fight. But Arvel and I are kind of looking at this and going

01:49:48.540 like what stand and fight in Memphis, Tennessee stand and fight in fucking Atlanta, Georgia

01:49:54.480 stand and fight in Brampton, Ontario. Like, are you kidding me? So it's, I think we're just being

01:50:01.100 more honest and practical. And I think that's what the institutions don't want. Like I know

01:50:06.900 that despite we're having these great conversations and getting this information out to people and it's

01:50:12.140 great. And I'm not saying this to be black billed, but I know that the institutions will not encourage

01:50:17.340 what, what we're doing. So don't expect any sort of algorithmic benefit to this. We have to,

01:50:23.580 we have to tough it out. It's a long haul. Most of the work is going to be offline because the online

01:50:28.320 world is not going to promote this shit. It never has. And I'm, I'm a guy who's been in the

01:50:32.320 permaculture homesteading space for 10 years and that anybody who's really moving the needle with

01:50:38.620 getting people empowered, the institutions just do not support this, these ideas. The people that

01:50:45.500 are popular on this stuff just make clickbait, but they're not really talking about ideas that

01:50:51.060 Arvel's talking about. That's actually organizing structures for people to get out of the matrix in

01:50:57.960 the most literal way that the matrix will not have it. And so I think guys like Fuentes, I don't know

01:51:04.820 him. I've listened to some of his stuff and I think he's a great political commentary. I think

01:51:09.260 he's, he's funny. He's young, but at the end of the day, we have to kind of call a spade a spade.

01:51:13.840 He's a young guy living in his parents' basement. He doesn't have children. I don't think he's married.

01:51:19.120 He is, he is embodying a characteristic of people that the matrix actually wants the right wing to go

01:51:26.120 into because they don't care whether you're right or left anymore. They're throwing the woke stuff

01:51:29.760 out. It was always meant to be a straw man, but they actually want guys to really be these next

01:51:34.960 Fuentes characters who have, you know, Peppy the Frog memes. They don't nothing. They're totally

01:51:39.960 anonymous and they're just siloed out online fucking bitching and moaning all day on social media, but

01:51:46.740 not doing anything in the real fucking world. They don't have families. They don't have kids. They don't

01:51:50.920 have a home. They don't have a good career. They're just work slaves echoing bullshit online and

01:51:57.520 they're going to get totally siloed. And so the whole stand and fight thing, in my opinion,

01:52:02.480 that's where that's going. Exit and build is the only way if you actually give a shit about your

01:52:08.080 heritage, your people, your children. And again, if you're not having kids, then Nick, this is the

01:52:13.180 thing that Nick can't understand about Arvel. Nick can't even get around, get his head around what

01:52:19.560 Arvel is experiencing because as far as I know, Arvel, you have four kids. Like that's,

01:52:23.820 you're a young guy. That's, that's, that's, you're, you're a fucking dude. Like you're a proper man.

01:52:28.820 Nick Fuentes is living in his fucking parents' basement live streaming all day. Like this guy,

01:52:34.360 Arvel is building and making shit happen for his family and his community. Fuentes is in Necco

01:52:39.280 Chamber and that's where they want you. Don't forget that. We can have all these conversations and

01:52:44.780 they're all good. But at the end of the day, they just want you doing that and talking and

01:52:49.480 being an echo chamber, totally siloed out online. They don't want you on the land building your shit.

01:52:54.780 So let that kind of light a fire under your ass to say, yeah, I don't want to just serve the new

01:52:59.180 world order by sitting here being blackpilled all day and hoping for a political miracle.

01:53:04.120 I'm going to actually get my shit together, start making some, getting some skills,

01:53:08.720 building some stuff and get in motion to get on the land.

01:53:12.040 There's, well, I think there's two types of men, right? There's men who talk about it and then

01:53:16.560 there's men who are be about it, right? So they like actually are about what they talk about,

01:53:21.080 you know what I mean? So they put their money where their mouth is and stuff like that. So yeah,

01:53:23.680 I think maybe he falls into the former where he talks about it, but then there's the men who are

01:53:28.580 actually about it, right? They be about it. So. Yeah, but he doesn't even really talk about it,

01:53:33.300 right? He just talks about, we need to take over politics. He has in the past. That's sort of the worst

01:53:38.400 part about it is he's demonstrated that he understands that exit and build is the best

01:53:43.360 way potentially to be able to eventually stand and fight. It's a way to build parallel power bases

01:53:49.880 for future elites to come out of. Like I've had conversations with him about this and he,

01:53:55.720 he understands. It's just that I didn't demonstrate a certain kind of fealty and loyalty.

01:54:01.200 And I don't know, e-celeb drama etiquette, something that I don't, I don't really care

01:54:08.180 that much about. Like I said, some things without thinking and he, he took personal offense and now

01:54:14.680 he's willing to try to basically sabotage the only active intentional white community in the U S

01:54:21.840 out of, I think, petty personal feelings. Uh, my, my biggest thing with him is he's not consistent

01:54:27.980 with his avowed values. And I think he's obviously put fame and, and power first. And he should put,

01:54:35.700 I mean, he should put God first really. And it's your respect for God's law that should then inform

01:54:43.340 your respect and love for your people, whether you're a pagan or you're a Christian, like we love

01:54:48.120 our people because we believe it's the right thing to do because we owe our allegiance to them.

01:54:51.940 And he, it gives lip service to that sometimes, but yeah, clearly doesn't live up to it. And he

01:54:57.860 also demonstrates a lot of those cardinal vices of our age in a really obvious way. And people

01:55:04.200 emulate it. That's the thing is people do follow the leader. And right now, a lot of people think

01:55:09.080 Nick Fuentes is the leader. And exactly like Curtis was saying, as a result, they are themselves

01:55:15.480 setting their highest ideal at internet celebrity, or making money in the system,

01:55:23.400 fame, uh, online in these circles, likes on posts, like social media drama becomes what they care about

01:55:31.100 the most, even above like conventional politics. Um, when supposedly that's what they're about. It is.

01:55:37.880 I mean, it's absolutely pathetic. How, how fucking, how, how girly he gets around Kanye West,

01:55:44.200 who's a complete degenerate. I've been calling this guy a psyop for a long time. He's just an

01:55:49.620 infiltrator. That's there to, to burn the barn down. There's a lot of guys out there like that.

01:55:54.560 They gain influence and then they get into a thing and then they burn it all down. And that's the,

01:56:00.940 the, the psyops now are multifaceted. They're coming at us on all angles. And that's the exactly it is

01:56:07.680 like, don't. And the thing that's so I'm just jiving with Arville so much on this conversation

01:56:12.620 is that I think both him and I don't, I'll speak for you and you tell me if I'm wrong. Um, is that

01:56:18.620 we don't really care about who is the bonafide leader. We just care about winning. We just care

01:56:24.800 about getting ours. We don't care about being the next fucking personality out there to, to win

01:56:31.020 everybody over and be the next big talking head because there's a greater, there's a greater issue

01:56:36.140 here. And that's why guys like Fuentes get so butthurt when people challenge them is because

01:56:41.020 their ego is so fragile that they feel that they have to just lash out when there's no reason why

01:56:47.540 a guy like Fuentes should be lashing out a return to land. There's no reason that these guys have

01:56:52.300 all the values and more of the things that Fuentes talks about, at least for the most part. And yet

01:56:58.640 he's trying to tear them down because his ego is butthurt. I find that's the sign of a guy who's

01:57:04.340 kind of immature. And I think it could be because the guy doesn't have a family. He doesn't have the

01:57:09.340 responsibilities and has to like man up as guys like Arville and I have to do on a regular basis.

01:57:14.540 So he can't even fucking get his head around it. He's just too caught up in being an internet

01:57:18.440 celebrity. Yeah, he has no skin in the game. He has no wife, no kids. Yeah, I think it's, it's really a shame

01:57:26.420 that the mediums that we use to communicate are dictating how we perceive social rank and value

01:57:35.260 and status and everything like that. And the people who are rising to the top right now are

01:57:39.900 e-celebrities, the people who do well in this kind of voice only, no action, all talk, no action,

01:57:50.120 all spectacle, no substance. Like what appeals to the most people? What gets the most likes?

01:57:55.260 And he does exemplify that. But I will still defend him and say, I don't think that he's

01:58:00.480 intentionally come in to disrupt. I think he really came to our views because he believed they were

01:58:05.800 right. I followed him closely from, you know, 2018. And I think it's just he's demonstrating the moral

01:58:13.760 failure that so many of us are subject to not just people who aren't, you know, 100% white or who might

01:58:20.380 be adjacent to the real core of white identity. Like, but also us, like our young men, our zoomers

01:58:27.560 are exemplifying the same kinds of character flaws, the sloth, like, you know, Nick used to be more of

01:58:35.720 an intellectual. He doesn't read as much as he used to. He, he, he has a certain kind of work ethic

01:58:42.100 where it comes to getting this following, getting this clout, competing online. But he's like,

01:58:48.280 he said, he doesn't have a wife doesn't have kids, even though he knows he should, he knows it's the

01:58:52.920 important thing for him to be doing with his life. But he's deferring and deferring and deferring.

01:58:57.060 And he's doing that with so much, you know, the serious questions, he'd rather just take the easy

01:59:01.940 answer, where it comes from Catholicism. And like many Catholics, he doesn't read the Bible, he doesn't

01:59:08.160 really care about the doctrines. It's just sort of, well, I'll show up, you know, and, and say my

01:59:13.160 Hail Mary's and I'll call it good. And it's just this low effort kind of, I don't know, stagnant

01:59:20.420 place that so many young people are so many of us are. So I don't want to point the finger at Nick

01:59:25.900 and say, like, you're doing it wrong. And you're coming in sabotaging. He's just a mirror to what

01:59:32.840 we are doing. And we have to change our priorities. It's not like, yeah, Nick does too. But like,

01:59:38.760 I don't want to put it all on him. I think that at his core, he is a good guy. And I would defend

01:59:42.960 him. Well, at the end of the day, people watch him. Well, right. So if we stopped watching that

01:59:47.340 kind of stuff, then. Well, and you know, you're right, he's good at what he's good at. But I mean,

01:59:53.600 it brings us back a little bit as we're wrapping up to the concept of, you know, who makes a good

01:59:58.680 leader and humility makes it for a good leader. And you get humility by kind of having your hands in

02:00:05.540 the dirt and be that, you know, dealing with dirty diapers to, you know, dealing with kids

02:00:11.680 or building, yeah, or plumbing or electrical, all that kind of stuff that's required, you do get

02:00:19.300 dirty. And maybe a good experiment, if you know, I, you know, Nick ever wanted to come out to the

02:00:25.260 land would be that one week long camping trip with the boys and see what happens out there.

02:00:29.940 Um, and then, you know, you kind of see what somebody's made of, that's the thing that's so

02:00:36.660 sad, you know, like, and that's where you can kind of get a little black filled is that you just go

02:00:41.480 like, fuck, so many of these young men are just trolling online. That's all they're doing. There's

02:00:46.960 just, it's so fucking pathetic. I see it all the time. Like guys that, you know, people who just like

02:00:52.080 get offended on an opinion you have, and then that's the line in the sand for them. And then they

02:00:56.760 come at you. And it's just so lame. It's like guys like Arville and I are just too busy building

02:01:01.880 shit, chopping firewood and making stuff and having babies to like get sucked into this stuff. But

02:01:07.820 that's the thing that's, it's a real psyop and X, as much as I enjoy this platform and I'm grateful

02:01:13.820 to be here, uh, it is going to really silo people. And I see that with all this JQ stuff coming out too.

02:01:20.780 I don't like to say this, but I just think that they're letting us all come up with this stuff and

02:01:26.140 they're honeypotting us. And then they're just going to silo people out. And so that's why,

02:01:31.500 again, exit and build is the, in my opinion, if you want to survive is really the only thing.

02:01:38.060 And as Arville said, is that exit and build is the way to stand and fight, to stand and fight and try

02:01:45.840 to get political leverage in Chicago, where I think Fuentes is based close to like, good luck,

02:01:52.160 all black city council Democrat through and through what you're going to move the needle

02:01:57.920 there. And so it's like the people that say, stand and fight, they, they, they'll say to us,

02:02:03.700 well, we're cowards because we're walking away. It's like, no, we just realize where's a war we can

02:02:08.400 win. And we're more focused on winning than fighting an uphill battle in a losing demographic

02:02:14.520 where you're getting completely outpopulated. And then you won't even want to have kids because

02:02:18.320 you're surrounded by Jeets. Like that's how it is in Southern Ontario. And so what, you're going to

02:02:23.360 stand and fight. It's just, it's insane to me. I know there was a couple of people, sorry,

02:02:28.860 I just want to say there was a couple of people that put their hand up. I'm sorry, we're wrapping

02:02:31.820 up. So I didn't want to bring anybody else up here because. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, guys, we're wrapping

02:02:37.700 up shop and we want to thank, you know, our two VIP stars. And we wanted to do this in partnership

02:02:44.980 with white excellence radio and you guys are like actually the embodiment of white excellence. So

02:02:51.840 thank you for continuing to raise the bar and raise the bar for us, for our people, giving us some

02:02:58.680 white pills, some inspiration. And yeah, I guess I wanted to know from you guys, if you wanted to

02:03:05.720 last words out there of hope or inspiration for particularly guys in the audience who may be

02:03:11.120 feeling black billed and where they can find you Curtis, if you want to start. Yeah, sure. Yeah, you

02:03:19.440 can find me. I mean, my life's work or at least the last 10 years, as far as what I've done online

02:03:24.940 is at freedomfarmers.com. And I, and if people start with that homestead accelerator, the value in it

02:03:30.620 is insane. Like when we first launched that program, we were charging $400 a month for it because it was

02:03:36.540 hard to kind of systematize it because it was all just me. But now we found a way to just do it for

02:03:42.400 like 10 times less than money. And we have more listings now than ever. And so people can check

02:03:47.780 that there. Follow me here on X if you don't already. I'm still on YouTube. I don't publish

02:03:53.520 there much anymore because it's just, I don't know, I kind of got tired of making videos, but

02:03:57.620 I am on there and it's off grid with Curtis Stone. And yeah, I mean, last words, I would just say like

02:04:05.360 the thing that I always try to, to, to tell young men is that, you know, you can get blackpilled and,

02:04:13.420 and, and, and I've gone down that rabbit hole. Like I've gone down the black pill. No question

02:04:17.840 about it. I've been a truther for 25 years. That's been my journey. And, um, if you get so blackpilled

02:04:25.280 that you just, you think that everything's pointless, they've got you. That was, that's what they

02:04:31.560 wanted. They want you in a hamster wheel. Okay. And so you can look at the light, the world for

02:04:39.100 what it is and accept it, or you can just get caught up in this, how the world ought to be

02:04:43.980 mindset. And then you just stay in that, that hamster wheel because it doesn't go anywhere.

02:04:49.300 And so once you start accepting how the world is and what you need to do about it, then you get off

02:04:54.340 the hamster wheel and you start taking steps and everybody's steps are different. Don't look at me

02:04:58.820 or Orville and just say, well, I can't do that. I can't get to what those guys have done. Fuck

02:05:03.740 that. You can do anything you put your mind to. And, and all it takes is just one foot in front of

02:05:09.420 the other. The first step is the hardest step and every step gets easier. And like, I remember times

02:05:14.300 when I was farming, cause I just learned to farm by bootstrapping it. I like read some books,

02:05:18.660 watching YouTube videos just started. I remember the first year of my farming, it was so fucking hard.

02:05:23.000 I was working 16 hour days. And I remember working so hard that I actually got like famished. Like I

02:05:29.880 famished myself. I didn't, I wasn't eating enough. And I remember just like laying on the floor and

02:05:33.920 complete exhaustion, just going, I can't wait until this is easier. And I just know more and I can just

02:05:39.560 exist. But you get through those moments and you see it through the end. And then you get to that point

02:05:44.920 where you can. And now I'm as a thousand times more productive as I was at that moment. But it was the

02:05:50.720 perseverance to get me to where I am now. And I, in order to get there, I just had to put one foot in

02:05:55.700 front of the other and just constantly move forward. Don't get caught in the past. Don't get caught in

02:06:01.420 the, he said, she said, don't get caught up on false idols that just want you to, to endlessly follow

02:06:07.660 them and repeat their ideology. And then you just get, you're on that hamster wheel, get off the

02:06:12.420 hamster wheel, get in reality, make it happen. It's the, it's the fight we all signed up for. Yeah, it seems

02:06:17.880 tough now. It does. Cause when I got to say, I go to the cities, I can't believe it, but you know

02:06:22.480 what? It's the fight that I believe our spirits signed up for. And it's, it's what we came into

02:06:27.140 this world to do is to bring a sort of heaven on earth. And maybe it doesn't have to be on earth as

02:06:32.240 we know it. Maybe it just starts in our communities, but that's a better place to start than to stand

02:06:36.800 there and say, well, I think the world ought to be this way. It's like, dude, here's where the world,

02:06:41.560 here's what the world is. And here's where you start. I'll leave it there.

02:06:44.280 Yeah. White power for sure. That's white power.

02:06:49.200 Absolutely. Arvel, can you close us off brother? And thank you so much for doing this. This was

02:06:54.220 highly productive and informative and you know, we're doing like flag exchanges and like, it's

02:07:00.060 awesome. I'm really, really happy with this. Yeah. Thanks so much for inviting me. It's been

02:07:04.980 great speaking with Curtis and the two of you. It's so encouraging that so many people are

02:07:12.000 understanding the importance of communities. Um, it's a little disappointing that it's taken

02:07:18.660 so long. It seems like such a no brainer, like, okay, you are a white nationalist. Why don't you

02:07:25.360 start with a white town or a white community or something, you know, imminent to you that you can

02:07:30.680 actually live in accordance with? Um, you know, if, if you're seeing what's happening in a large scale

02:07:38.040 and being discouraged, I think it's important to recognize that what's immediately around you

02:07:45.140 is far more important than some abstract economic political change. You know, what is going on in

02:07:55.400 your neighborhood? What's going on with the people that you know and love? Cause that's your domain of

02:08:01.900 responsibility beyond that. I mean, how much do you actually live with the, uh, you know, the

02:08:09.320 demographics of San Francisco changing or the, you know, what's going on in some far flung corner of

02:08:14.800 the globe? Like you live where you live, you deal with the people you do, and you have to live according

02:08:21.000 to what you believe in. And if you're not living in accordance with your values, you're going to be

02:08:26.020 miserable. That's why you're miserable. Of course you're black billed because you're not living up to

02:08:31.280 what you think is right. And so you feel bad about yourself. I guess the good news is you don't have

02:08:35.880 to live that way and you don't have to go at all alone. And you don't have to look at others who

02:08:39.860 have accomplished more and say, you know, I'll never do that. Like Curtis said, like, you don't

02:08:45.080 have to do it alone. It's not on you. It's on us. And we have each other. That's the good news

02:08:51.400 is like to do what we know is right. We just have to rely on the people that God gave us and that's each

02:09:00.360 other. And we're here in this world to help each other grow bigger. And the potential, like the

02:09:06.600 potential futures for us in our communities are so much bigger than I think anyone today realizes.

02:09:14.900 Just the ways that we can organize, the way we can consider how we're going about forming

02:09:21.220 communities, the way we educate our kids, the tools available to us today, the rate of technological

02:09:27.820 change. It's scary. It's overwhelming. We have to get more organized and think more consciously about

02:09:33.820 what we want life to look like because it can be utopia. It can be heaven or it can be hell. I mean,

02:09:39.420 we can definitely go to dystopia too. So it's, it's an era of unprecedented possibilities. And it's an

02:09:46.900 era where we're becoming self-conscious of a, an identity that is so epic in shaping the history of

02:09:53.700 humanity that we, we haven't had that self-conscious realization that we've been kind of balkanized

02:09:59.200 within the white race with this kind of parochial English or German or French or whatever, you know,

02:10:06.380 local identity, even America, like starting out, we were very regional and there are still regional

02:10:12.120 identities that matter and that, you know, we shouldn't abandon our regional identities. They mean

02:10:17.140 something, but now we have this insight into a larger thing that we're all a part of that unites

02:10:23.460 all of us, that we have the potential to change the world still even more so now because we're not

02:10:30.880 relying on state structures that are 500 years old because we're being forced to reinvent the wheel.

02:10:36.860 And I think that's a good thing. And I think it's, you know, what we need to, to correct the

02:10:41.880 spiritual problems that our people face as well. So like there's so much promise in each other,

02:10:50.200 in what we, how we can organize, how we can build economically, just like the, the way we can farm,

02:10:56.680 we can fundamentally transform and it can be more productive and more nutritious the way that we

02:11:01.740 educate kids, the, the way that we deal with computers and AI, like it can all be much healthier

02:11:07.540 and we can put things together in a way that can really benefit us. If we just let go of that ego,

02:11:13.440 stop caring about the internet drama, bullshit, start doing what you know is right. As soon as you

02:11:17.900 start doing that, God will do the rest, whatever you believe God will pick up where you leave off.

02:11:23.680 If you just get, you know, one foot started in the right direction, do in, in your life day to day,

02:11:29.800 are you doing what you believe is right? If you believe that you care about your people,

02:11:34.740 get with your people. Wow. That was a great way to end it.

02:11:40.640 Gosh. I'm swooning. You guys are so amazing. Yeah. Thanks. I want to thank Arval who's yeah,

02:11:48.380 our California philosophy major army guy in Arkansas, you know, living his best life and

02:11:54.720 Curtis, you know, an entrepreneur and a free thinker and an open spirit and, you know, a father

02:12:00.280 and a businessman. I, we just want to thank you so much and thank you to white excellence radio for

02:12:06.000 supporting us in this journey and a posty high five, virtual high five. Thank you guys.

02:12:11.140 Yeah. That was amazing. Virtual five. Yeah. Thanks so much guys. Oh, and just, uh, if you want to

02:12:16.520 re-listen to it again, I will upload it to rumble probably a couple of days. It takes me, but, um,

02:12:21.340 yeah. So if you want to listen to it again, outside of Twitter or X, I'll send the link in my profile

02:12:26.120 probably tomorrow or the next day. Very good. All right. Awesome. All right. Thank you. Thanks

02:12:32.040 everybody. Bye. Night, night. Bye-bye.

postyX - April 04, 2025

Modern Pioneers： Creating Free Folk Conditions in Weimar

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