Radio 3Fourteen - A Voice for Men_ Feminist Misandry

00:00:00.000 Music

00:00:30.000 This is Radio 314 on the Red Ice Radio Network.

00:00:45.480 Hello, everyone. This is Lana, and thanks for tuning in to another Radio 314 interview.

00:00:50.780 Well, we're back talking about the messy, dirty laundry of the unhealthy relationships between women and men 1.00

00:00:55.880 and how it's unfolding in politics, propaganda, and society.

00:00:59.200 Last time, we spoke with Lisa Arbacheski about how feminism has been turned and used as a tool for psychological warfare against women. 1.00

00:01:07.280 Now, we're going to hear the flip side of feminism and what it is doing to the men today. 1.00

00:01:12.260 Paul Elam, the founder of avoiceformen.com, joins me to discuss the subject that receives very little attention, if any, from the mainstream.

00:01:19.800 Welcome, Paul. Thanks for being here with me today.

00:01:22.180 Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.

00:01:23.900 Well, I've been combing through your website, avoiceformen.com, which has a lot of powerful truths on it for people to read,

00:01:29.200 points that are not addressed by mainstream, which has to make one wonder.

00:01:32.720 But tell us how you came to creating the website and your general philosophy behind it.

00:01:37.000 Well, I initially got interested in the issues surrounding gender politics in the mental health field.

00:01:43.540 I was a substance abuse counselor, addictions counselor for 20 years here in Houston.

00:01:48.580 And I noticed during the 80s that there was a change in mentality that seemed to be coming out of our academic institutions regarding the relationships between men and women.

00:02:01.660 We went from, I think, some kind of spirit of cooperation, although men and women have always had their differences.

00:02:08.640 But there was an attitude coming out of academia that was overtly hostile to men.

00:02:16.660 And to be honest with you, I sort of rode that wave myself when it started happening.

00:02:22.060 I became very involved in trying to understand women's issues and to the special circumstances they faced,

00:02:30.860 perhaps particularly in treatment settings, things like that.

00:02:34.740 And in establishing programs and special tracks for women and in educating my staffs of counselors on dealing with special populations, particularly women.

00:02:47.980 And I still think that at the time that that happened, that was probably a very good thing.

00:02:52.440 But what seemed to come with it in ever-increasing doses was an animosity toward men, not just an understanding of women's circumstances or looking for ways to address their unique concerns,

00:03:09.880 but a demonization and vilification of men that came with that.

00:03:14.080 It became really a concern for me.

00:03:17.160 And after a few years of that, my attitude started changing, and I started wondering where this was coming from.

00:03:25.220 And in digging into that, that was my first sort of real exploration of the politics of gender.

00:03:32.420 And it led me to the writings of people like Warren Farrell, Christina Hoff Summers, and others that had written in dissent of academic feminism

00:03:44.540 and had opened my eyes, they opened my eyes up to a lot of ways of thinking about gender and gender politics that I had never considered.

00:03:53.420 And I was running from there.

00:03:54.980 Well, before we really get into this, I think we should go back and briefly discuss feminism in the beginning, 0.98

00:04:01.720 because it's much different today what they're after.

00:04:04.560 Back then, women wanted to vote. 1.00

00:04:06.280 They wanted to have reproductive rights, equal pay, although that's not fair if they're less qualified, and they wanted to go to school.

00:04:12.380 You see, for me, I have an anarchist view.

00:04:14.220 So to me, all these demands for rights are a step backwards.

00:04:16.980 To me, I'd say to move forward, government should be abolished and found illegitimate,

00:04:20.960 and so should all the artificial constructs others create for you.

00:04:23.940 What do you think?

00:04:24.980 I wouldn't disagree with that.

00:04:27.720 I don't know if I can classify myself as an anarchist, but I'm certainly of the mind that the smaller government, the better.

00:04:34.540 Yeah.

00:04:35.180 That these agendas that people have, that they wage through government, only serve to build bureaucracies

00:04:42.040 that end up controlling more of our lives in not-so-egalitarian ways.

00:04:47.020 Yeah.

00:04:47.220 So I don't think we're far off the same page.

00:04:50.480 I do think that there were discrepancies in this society that worked against both sexes for as long as we've been human.

00:04:59.340 There are roles that men and women have assumed through biology, through socialization, that put certain limitations on women,

00:05:08.720 put certain limitations on men, at least within the confines of our own minds.

00:05:13.840 And it's certainly, there were things that I think for both sexes that we're, and still are things, that we do well to overcome.

00:05:23.080 I just don't think government's the answer.

00:05:25.120 And I think as we've seen with the absolute hegemony over the discussion of gender that the government has fostered through gender feminism,

00:05:36.280 we find that people are not overcoming anything.

00:05:40.040 As a matter of fact, things are becoming in some ways more regressive.

00:05:43.380 Oh, yeah.

00:05:43.680 There's a polarization process happening anytime there's a special group that's demanding rights.

00:05:48.240 And in my view, rights are not given to you.

00:05:51.220 You take them.

00:05:51.900 You make them so.

00:05:52.540 You don't ask for permission.

00:05:53.500 And you don't need a state to sanction something for you.

00:05:56.340 I mean, this is what a strong individual does.

00:05:58.180 I think that, looking back, if women took that stance long ago, many men would have backed them up. 0.99

00:06:02.480 And they could have split off and maybe even created a new kind of society, especially in the early days of the Wild West, you know?

00:06:08.120 Oh, absolutely.

00:06:08.980 And this is why we certainly, at A Voice for Men, we don't look for government to fix anything.

00:06:14.740 We're not looking – I mean, we point out the fact that there is, for instance, very well-heeled, federally-funded offices on women's health in the federal government,

00:06:25.960 despite the fact that they outlive men and that there's nothing for men.

00:06:29.880 But we don't call for government to form offices for men's health.

00:06:34.560 Yeah.

00:06:35.200 This is information simply to give people – to let them look at the disparities in our society.

00:06:42.260 But our solutions are in our own minds.

00:06:44.740 And in our own choices.

00:06:46.700 That's right.

00:06:47.460 So if we fast forward to today, what do feminists really want? 1.00

00:06:52.780 Everything.

00:06:55.840 Everything with a capital E.

00:06:58.160 And we're laughing as I say that, but as I look at the evidence, as I look at the agendas of feminists in our branches of government,

00:07:09.060 as I look at them in our academic institutions and our media, what I see very clearly is a domineering move for complete ownership of the discussion about sex and gender.

00:07:24.700 I see absolute bullying of people, of dissenting views.

00:07:30.420 One example I'll give you, Murray Strauss.

00:07:34.800 Dr. Strauss is a very eminent researcher in the area of intimate partner violence.

00:07:41.020 And he was bullied so much by feminist ideologues that he actually produced a paper outlining their techniques for silencing, for skewing research, for producing bad figures, and for punishing anybody that got in their way.

00:07:58.400 And a very convincing paper, and it is in practice with the full blessing of our wonderful government to this very day.

00:08:08.180 Wow. 0.93

00:08:08.580 Yeah, I just, when I look around at some of these crazy feminists, it seems like they want a society where women are basically relieved of all responsibility. 1.00

00:08:17.300 They can openly express man hate and shaming tactics. 0.98

00:08:20.440 They're feminizing boys and demonizing men. 0.99

00:08:23.440 So why this war against men?

00:08:27.020 Well, I think it is a pathology of a kind.

00:08:31.300 It is a very strange one to watch because when you hear feminist rhetoric, you hear them talking about women's empowerment, yet everything that they seem to actually do looks more like the infantilization of women than it does their empowerment.

00:08:49.840 It is all about them not taking responsibility for their actions, having somebody to blame, regardless of what they do.

00:08:58.240 And it is this total contradictory message, which most ideological agendas are, if you actually study them.

00:09:08.540 But what do feminists want? 1.00

00:09:10.720 I think for many of them, they want their fathers.

00:09:16.160 They want government to be their father.

00:09:19.800 They want men, generally speaking, to be their father, not their partnership in life.

00:09:25.140 But as a father figure to take care of their problems, to fix things for them.

00:09:30.160 In other words, what they want is a restructuring of the very patriarchy that they have said has been responsible for women's oppression and limitations for ages.

00:09:41.580 Yeah, there's a video that you posted.

00:09:46.160 It's titled, I don't need a man. 0.90

00:09:47.960 Let me read a few of these.

00:09:49.180 She says, I don't need a man, but if I get pregnant, I demand money. 1.00

00:09:53.200 I don't need a man, but I demand standards be lowered so I can compete with men in any workplace.

00:09:57.740 But I demand free health care be provided, and I demand to be paid the same even if I'm a worse employee.

00:10:03.260 I don't need a man, but I demand maternity leave for my employer. 0.99

00:10:06.140 But I demand protection from the men in military, police, and firefighters.

00:10:10.020 I don't need a man, but I demand any accusation against men be accepted unconditionally by authorities.

00:10:15.720 And that is so true.

00:10:17.980 Oh, of course.

00:10:20.380 Obviously, somebody needs a man somewhere in that equation, even if it's just for somebody to blame.

00:10:28.220 I mean, my goodness, we had our current president basically, I think, got reelected on the platform of free birth control.

00:10:37.140 Because he counted on a culture of women that weren't willing to cough up six bucks a month for their own birth control. 1.00

00:10:45.860 I mean, how insulting is that?

00:10:48.840 Yeah.

00:10:49.060 And unfortunately, one of the side effects of feminism, and this is a very difficult area to talk about, but I really believe it's true, is that we have cultivated a society. 0.96

00:11:03.700 It isn't just feminism that is infantilizing women. 1.00

00:11:07.860 We've cultivated a society that is infantilizing women and is giving them expectations that they are owed, that they're victims. 1.00

00:11:17.380 A lot of this stems from feminism, but it also emanates from more traditional conservative elements in our culture. 0.84

00:11:25.540 That women are to be patted on the head and told they're pretty and not to have expectations of agency and accountability. 0.76

00:11:33.160 I find that feminists and traditionalists make often very strange bedfellows, but they are. 1.00

00:11:40.280 Sure, there could be a guy who's an asshole out there, or you don't like your boss, or you don't like your boyfriend, 1.00

00:11:45.000 but it's your fault for being there and for not leaving. 1.00

00:11:48.820 Take some responsibility.

00:11:50.220 Wisen up.

00:11:50.980 You know, these are unhealthy, dysfunctional women who are thinking this way. 1.00

00:11:55.480 Yeah. 1.00

00:11:55.760 I mean, I hate to inform them, but men have been dealing with asshole bosses for a few thousand years. 0.99

00:12:01.600 That's right. 0.99

00:12:02.820 And what do they do? 1.00

00:12:03.900 If the boss is that much of an asshole, they go find a different job, or they go start their own business, even better. 1.00

00:12:09.240 And they become the boss, and then they can be an asshole if they want to. 1.00

00:12:13.040 But that's part of our individual liberties and our individual freedom. 1.00

00:12:16.860 The idea that we need to reshape society like it's clay so that nobody of any particular class of people doesn't have to deal with assholes is outrageous. 0.98

00:12:29.660 But that's what we're doing. 0.99

00:12:31.140 Exactly.

00:12:31.720 It's part of why we're here is to learn to settle our own conflicts, not run to the government and ask for them to do it for you all the time.

00:12:38.480 It's very weak.

00:12:39.520 Like they do such a good job.

00:12:41.240 Yeah, exactly.

00:12:42.760 Well, I know this is a big question.

00:12:44.360 It would take hours and books to explain, but can you tell us some of the major issues men face that you've been highlighting on your website?

00:12:50.640 Well, let me take it to the basics for you, and then maybe we can expand on those issues that emanate from that.

00:13:00.500 Looking at this really from a psychosocial approach, the biggest issues that men face in this culture revolve around their interpersonal relationships with women.

00:13:14.100 That is the starting point.

00:13:15.980 There are parts of our conditioning as men that we're socialized into.

00:13:21.860 I think part of it is biology.

00:13:24.400 But there was forever a needed, I think, set of standards on men and women for the survival of the species that required men to fulfill a role in life as a protector and a provider,

00:13:37.620 just as women were expected to fulfill the role of nurturers of children and providing for them and taking care of them. 1.00

00:13:44.940 I totally understand how those roles developed and why they developed and the fact that probably for a time they were essential to our survival as a species.

00:13:56.520 I don't see that as being such a necessity now.

00:13:59.940 And what we have is ostensibly a society of women that allegedly has moved out of that dependency role and into their own independence. 0.95

00:14:09.620 And in some ways that's very true.

00:14:12.240 But that move, that change, would have required and does require some sort of corresponding reaction from men.

00:14:21.060 It doesn't mean that it requires the government or anybody handing men a set of instructions.

00:14:26.360 But a lot of men do feel lost in this culture, wondering sort of how they're supposed to be with women, what they're supposed to do.

00:14:35.560 And basically they're stuck with the same set of expectations of men that we had in 1930 in a world that has changed.

00:14:44.760 So what we talk about a lot at A Voice for Men is the choice of men to gravitate away from that role,

00:14:54.340 to see themselves as something other than a protector and a provider whose mission in life is to secure the happiness and comfort of a woman.

00:15:05.500 And that is a very controversial position.

00:15:08.100 We think it's a very necessary one in order for men to free their minds in a lot of ways.

00:15:13.160 But that's what we push for.

00:15:16.140 Now, extensions from that get into areas.

00:15:20.040 We have quite a problem among many social problems with things like false rape allegations.

00:15:26.540 They happen because our legal system loves victims and it makes it very user-friendly for false allegations to happen,

00:15:36.100 both in criminal courts and during the course of divorces, especially when allegations are just rampant

00:15:43.280 because of ex parte restraining orders being issued with no evidence and getting people a leg up in divorce proceedings.

00:15:50.280 A lot of men don't fight that happening.

00:15:54.420 They just take it.

00:15:55.400 It is amazing the number of men that I've talked to that have been drug into a family court and severed from their children by an abusive family law system

00:16:05.500 and that just stand there and take it and don't realize that what is happening to them happens to thousands and thousands of other men in those courts.

00:16:15.940 And they are totally reticent to speak up or say anything about it.

00:16:20.020 And when we dig into that with them, we find that many of them feel like they cannot put themselves in a position of being in combat with a woman

00:16:29.520 or, in other words, of seeing her as an equal even in the adversarial sense.

00:16:34.440 And so we work with a lot of men on understanding that that programming in them is not necessarily their best friend.

00:16:42.880 And maybe it never was.

00:16:45.780 So where did this programming come from?

00:16:48.260 Because it's definitely in play.

00:16:50.600 Has it been from violence and from war?

00:16:53.040 Have men been beaten down into submission?

00:16:55.800 Well, I think all human beings in some way or another have been beaten down into submission.

00:17:00.600 I really think this came from deficiency needs and survival needs.

00:17:06.880 I think that the general, what you'll find in most human beings is that men tend to be larger and stronger

00:17:15.180 and more aggressive and more capable of physical violence.

00:17:19.540 And so they have been trained through three million years of human socialization to take on that role of protector and provider.

00:17:27.400 And that if a male dies, I mean, let's face it, one of the things we talk about a lot in my culture, in the men's rights culture, is male disposability.

00:17:38.760 And the fact of the matter is, biologically, that if a male dies or perishes, goes down with a ship while we put a woman on a lifeboat,

00:17:46.600 we've lost a sperm supplier in that regard, but we've lost the incubator if the woman goes down. 0.88

00:17:53.040 We've lost the ability to procreate.

00:17:56.860 And during times when human beings were living on the African savanna, I think it was probably a really big deal 0.98

00:18:04.500 that we use whatever resources were necessary to protect women.

00:18:09.280 Because if we didn't, we were done.

00:18:11.600 We were just going to be another dead-end evolutionary experiment.

00:18:15.880 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

00:18:17.400 So, and I think that our socialization stems from that.

00:18:20.900 Ultimately, it has passed through generations and generations all the way up to our laws and customs

00:18:26.420 that are still somehow rooted in that sociobiological determinism.

00:18:31.600 Well, we're also finding with technology that determinism is not the big deal that it used to be.

00:18:37.820 We do have choices to make.

00:18:39.640 We don't live in an environment where the saber-toothed tiger is going to come in the front door

00:18:45.480 and gobble us up if we don't have a man standing there. 1.00

00:18:49.380 And this is what I think allowed feminism to emerge in the first place. 1.00

00:18:53.900 If we were living in a survival environment, I was, for instance, I was just in Alaska for a couple of weeks for a vacation.

00:19:03.520 And up there, the locals, now we're not talking about the tourists, but the locals live off of the land in many cases.

00:19:11.080 They're out there hunting, they're fishing, they're trapping, they're doing things like a lot of us did here 100, 150 years ago.

00:19:19.700 And you don't see feminism in play in Alaska near, like you do, in Texas or South Carolina. 1.00

00:19:28.480 That's so true.

00:19:30.240 What you see is men and women cooperating to get things done.

00:19:35.100 But the idea of gender equity and everybody making sure that we have egalitarian rules that govern our conduct between each other,

00:19:47.040 you wouldn't even hear that nonsense up there.

00:19:49.140 Nor would you in any place in the undeveloped world, in non-industrialized nations.

00:19:54.140 You don't see it.

00:19:55.220 It's technology that allowed feminism to emerge. 1.00

00:19:58.600 And in a culture that has technology, perhaps it should.

00:20:02.220 Perhaps there needs to be the freedom for all human beings to make their choices.

00:20:07.820 But those choices then have to also be extended to men.

00:20:12.000 And so far, this culture has not done that.

00:20:14.300 We've done a lot to talk about women's choices and what their lot is in life. 0.90

00:20:20.240 And I personally favor a lot of those things.

00:20:22.440 Of course, I think women should vote. 1.00

00:20:24.040 Of course, they should be allowed to be educated and hold jobs and have access to owning land or doing anything else that they want to do to pursue happiness.

00:20:32.860 At the same time, it's men's gender role that often inhibits them psychologically from making those same pursuits on their own behalf without thinking of women first.

00:20:44.160 And we work on changing that, which is just we have a very big job.

00:20:48.500 Oh, yeah.

00:20:50.080 Whenever you're talking about something that's in the mind that needs to be deprogrammed, it's a biggie.

00:20:55.280 So, in your view, you talked about cooperation, which I completely agree between the sexes.

00:21:00.020 In your view, what is the healthy relationship between a man and a woman?

00:21:04.260 One with completely mutual agency and responsibility.

00:21:09.460 And that doesn't necessarily mean the same workload.

00:21:13.060 I've been in a relationship for 11 years.

00:21:15.240 If something goes bump in the night, I'm going to be the one to get up and go check it out.

00:21:20.860 Because in that circumstance, that's what's practical.

00:21:25.400 But my partner works.

00:21:27.400 My partner pays half the bills in our home.

00:21:30.380 My partner and I both have expectations that we take responsibility for our mistakes and that we work on correcting things, that there isn't a set of rules.

00:21:42.140 There's no princes and no princesses in this home.

00:21:47.760 And we don't go in that direction at all.

00:21:51.020 And, you know, I've got to hand it to my partner in a culture that encourages women to have the expectations of loyalty in many cases.

00:22:00.720 And she's done an amazing job of being a self-sufficient person with agency and accountability.

00:22:11.060 And I think that's the key right there.

00:22:13.640 She doesn't, we don't have a rule here that says, well, you take out the trash because you're a man, because she's actually capable of taking out trash. 1.00

00:22:21.360 And I know that these are real small things that I'm talking about.

00:22:25.880 But I think in the mentality that we approach the relationship with, it's one of mutual respect and mutual expectation.

00:22:34.040 Absolutely.

00:22:34.640 And I think, too, there might be different couples.

00:22:36.760 There might be some men that are rich and they just kind of want a pretty Barbie doll. 0.99

00:22:41.100 But they have an agreement and it works for them.

00:22:43.380 Well, and certainly if that's their choice, I mean, you're not going to hear me tell them that they shouldn't do it.

00:22:50.620 However, a lot of the emails I get are from guys that got the Barbie doll and then got the family court that came with it.

00:22:57.780 Oh, yeah.

00:22:59.580 So, you know, there is still snakes in the wood pile.

00:23:04.060 And if you want a Barbie doll in life, I would argue that's probably what you're going to get.

00:23:08.860 But you know something? Barbie dolls are not really that cute when they have a lawyer standing next to them. 0.99

00:23:14.740 Oh, yeah. Definitely.

00:23:18.140 Well, another issue I keep hearing feminists bring up is males are so violent and, you know, they're all wired to rape. 1.00

00:23:26.020 But I was just reading that 40 percent of domestic cases in the U.S. are from women's violence against men. 0.65

00:23:32.980 And those are just a lot of the cases.

00:23:35.820 If you looked at the work, I mentioned Murray Strauss earlier, there's Martin Feiberk at Southern Cal who put together an exhaustive body of research that covered a group of over 337,000 people in surveys and empirical studies.

00:23:54.820 There are many, many, many other studies, all that demonstrate what's called gender symmetry, that women are as likely, if not a little more likely than men in relationships to initiate violence physically.

00:24:14.760 There is a lot of evidence to suggest that women are injured in those relationships more frequently, which would make sense given the relative body mass difference between men and women.

00:24:27.960 But in terms of using violence itself, it's roughly an equal proposition.

00:24:34.760 And I think in a very important note, and this is where feminism has not only gotten it wrong, they've gotten it wrong with the terrible result in damage to our culture. 1.00

00:24:45.920 By painting men as the only perpetrators of domestic violence, which is not true, and women as the only victims, which is also not true, they have ignored not only male victims of female violence, they are also ignoring the children in the homes where the mother is the one that is violent.

00:25:07.120 And, you know, children are traumatized by family violence, and they don't care whether it was dad hitting mom or mom hitting dad.

00:25:15.940 They are messed up over their stuff regardless of who it was.

00:25:20.360 And at the same time, and again, I'm not saying this to advocate that the government should find solutions for people, but we live in a culture that is government dependent.

00:25:29.720 When men look for social services because they have an abusive spouse, they're laughed out.

00:25:37.220 And they're screamed out and often told that they're the abuser.

00:25:42.460 They released a study not too long ago from Great Britain that said that men that called police to intervene in domestic situations when they were the ones being physically attacked were more likely to be arrested than their wives.

00:25:56.800 Wow.

00:25:57.400 Because the police are trained with the Violence Against Women Act here in the United States, at least our police are trained with funding from that act, which is driven by gender ideologues, to believe that only men can be perpetrators, and they look for ways to arrest the man when they show up.

00:26:16.500 So this gets translated into state functionaries actually showing up at people's doors and arresting victims because of their sex.

00:26:26.100 That's what's happening across this country right now.

00:26:28.960 It's absolutely insane, yet we live in a culture that's pretty much conditioned to ignore the issues of men.

00:26:36.180 And so the mainstream media and most other people, as you've already alluded to, won't even touch it.

00:26:42.240 So what do you think about some of these elite men that are in power, like the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds?

00:26:47.780 How do they look at this issue?

00:26:49.240 Because, I mean, they're men that are ruling the world.

00:26:52.340 Well, I think that the corporatocracy loves feminism. 1.00

00:26:55.720 Most consumerism is female. 1.00

00:27:00.260 If you look at the wage, we talk a lot about wage gap between men and women.

00:27:05.980 And it's true that men, on average, make more than women. 0.93

00:27:08.940 It's because of their life choices, not because of sex discrimination.

00:27:12.720 Yeah.

00:27:14.220 But women spend most of disposable income. 1.00

00:27:17.460 It's why if you turn on a television, you're going to see plenty of TV advertising where men are being slapped or kicked in the groin or told that they're enough or stupid or made to look like cavemen or whatever. 0.99

00:27:31.400 And where women are portrayed as the shining light of genius in the family that has all the answers. 1.00

00:27:38.440 Yes, my wife told me to take two Tylenol and my headache is cured.

00:27:44.200 God bless my wife. 1.00

00:27:45.480 I would have never known to take Tylenol had it not been for my intelligent wife and, you know, cut to the next program of desperate housewives. 1.00

00:27:57.660 But consumer culture is driven by female consumerism. 1.00

00:28:02.120 So it makes sense to me that corporations are certainly never going to do anything but be very, very friendly to feminist ideals or any ideals that they feel like are user-friendly for women.

00:28:16.460 If we're going further up the chain to the Rothschilds, to the Rockefellers, I don't know.

00:28:22.840 I've had mixed feelings on this for a long time.

00:28:25.760 I tend to be more of an Occam's razor kind of guy that the simplest explanation is probably the most logical.

00:28:33.460 But I think that anything is possible.

00:28:36.280 It's certainly illogical to assume that families like the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds don't have an inordinate amount of control of what happens in our government.

00:28:47.580 Actually, it's Abby Rockefeller, one of the daughters. 0.95

00:28:52.080 She's a feminist, like hardcore lesbian feminist. 1.00

00:28:56.380 And she started up, was it Cell 16 or something like that? 0.96

00:28:59.280 And it's a very violent organization that's all about basically just eradicating men.

00:29:04.420 Oh, yeah.

00:29:05.540 We've dealt with a few of those.

00:29:09.180 The radical feminism is going unchecked by the media. 0.92

00:29:12.720 It's amazing that we did an expose where we got the identities.

00:29:20.240 We had an infiltrator into a forum of radical feminists. 1.00

00:29:25.480 One of them included a best-selling author for Simon & Schuster, Pamela O'Shaughnessy.

00:29:31.800 There is a number of other individuals in there.

00:29:35.620 One of them had an affiliation with the United Nations.

00:29:39.860 There were community planners.

00:29:42.060 We got all their names.

00:29:43.260 They were having discussions in a supposedly secret forum online where they were talking about murdering as many men as possible, castrating as many men as possible, throwing young boys out of windows, calling all young boys rapists and waiting.

00:30:02.580 This horrific, horrific conversation going on between people in very, very influential positions.

00:30:10.700 We did a story on it.

00:30:11.940 We outed these people completely and exposed what they were up to, what they were doing.

00:30:17.560 And we got huge traffic to the site from our audience.

00:30:22.340 I think that article was hit 150,000 times in 24 hours.

00:30:29.240 We sent out feelers across the Western world to the mainstream media on this with our documentation, and nobody would touch it.

00:30:36.920 Jeez.

00:30:38.220 So why is mainstream media not giving any attention to this subject?

00:30:41.940 Because you can't risk offending women and sell your goodies.

00:30:49.620 You can't.

00:30:50.660 You can't upset women.

00:30:52.040 The first thing that happens, imagine a politician who stands up and says, we're ignoring the issues faced by men.

00:31:00.460 What do you think his longevity is in politics?

00:31:03.380 What do you think his longevity is in politics?

00:31:05.740 Zero.

00:31:06.220 Now, if he stands up and makes a claim for women, he gets applauded. 0.99

00:31:11.160 And it doesn't matter which side of the political aisle that he's on.

00:31:14.940 But this goes back to the human biology.

00:31:17.480 We're wired to protect women, and we're wired to see men as disposable.

00:31:21.860 So anybody that stands up and says, hey, you know, these guys in divorce courts, it's a really terrible what's going on.

00:31:30.240 And the abuses in family courts are absolutely just unbelievable what's happening in there.

00:31:37.260 Nobody will talk about it, because the first thing that's going to happen if they do is that the feminist lobby will start screaming woman, hater, and misogynist. 1.00

00:31:48.620 And it will hurt them.

00:31:49.820 They can't survive that.

00:31:52.940 If they get hung with the misogynist label, now, I think a voice from men is starting to play a role in maybe having some hope for a change in that,

00:32:01.540 because we have been so assertive with our message and pounding it so hard and we've gotten so popular that we're starting to see more and more,

00:32:10.180 even in the media, little bits, people standing up here and there saying enough is enough.

00:32:16.320 We're going to start standing up to this kind of nonsense.

00:32:18.500 We hope that trend continues, because until it changes, none of this will ever get addressed,

00:32:23.700 because nobody will be able to survive politically unless they side with women. 1.00

00:32:28.300 And it doesn't make any difference if they're really hurting women by doing so.

00:32:33.160 They still need to appear like they're siding or they're toast. 0.90

00:32:36.580 Jeez.

00:32:37.600 Yeah, the other thing I noticed, too, and you see it in TVs and movies all the time, it's just boys don't cry. 0.96

00:32:43.440 They're sissies if they say that they're being abused and they don't really have feelings. 0.85

00:32:47.580 Otherwise, you're not a man, you know, be a man, man up, right? 0.98

00:32:51.260 Well, yeah, well, that's when I was talking about feminism and traditionalism being strange bedfellows. 0.58

00:32:56.360 That's exactly what I'm talking about is that you have feminists who have claimed for at least 50 years that they're all about ending gender roles and that we all need to be freed from this. 1.00

00:33:06.960 And the moment a guy stands up and says, you know what, you're right, I don't think I'm going to get married.

00:33:13.240 I don't think I'm going to try to shoot for the corporate ladder.

00:33:15.820 I think I'm going to go under the radar and sort of tell the whole world to screw off and go my own way.

00:33:22.800 The feminists are the first one to start screaming, you need to man up. 1.00

00:33:25.940 And we had Kay Heimowicz do that recently right on the heels of Bill Bennett doing it in separate pieces.

00:33:36.660 One of them in the New York Times, and I forget which one, but Kay Heimowicz was telling men to man up.

00:33:43.400 She's from the feminist camp. 1.00

00:33:44.680 And then Bill Bennett, a notorious neocon, jumps up and writes a similar article.

00:33:50.760 I was just laughing hysterically.

00:33:52.540 Well, what do they want when they use terms like gender equality? 0.96

00:33:58.120 I mean, because the word equality can be debated.

00:34:00.560 Well, there's no such thing as equality.

00:34:03.480 It doesn't even exist.

00:34:05.200 There's no two human beings that are equal to each other, less two entire classes of people.

00:34:12.400 Now, I think striving for equal treatment under the law, like if you go down the road at five miles over the speed limit and somebody's going to write you a ticket,

00:34:21.500 I don't think it should be any worse or better than my ticket for doing five miles over the speed limit.

00:34:29.320 Well, men already pay more for car insurance, younger men.

00:34:32.480 Well, sure they do.

00:34:33.220 But that's my extent of equality under the law, is that the law applies to everybody.

00:34:39.860 You know, if you kill somebody and you murder them, then the sentencing should be the same.

00:34:45.380 But right now, the sentencing disparity between men and women in America is greater than it is between whites and other minorities.

00:34:53.900 Yeah, I saw another attempt to demonize men in an article you posted by some German lady, and it is climate change a man.

00:35:04.400 The article goes on to say, yes, because men like big machines and cars and they eat steak and more food.

00:35:09.980 So what does this mean?

00:35:11.660 You guys fart more and you emit more CO2, so you're the guilty party?

00:35:14.640 Well, certainly women don't drive SUVs to the mall three or four days. 1.00

00:35:19.880 They don't have needs for material goods whatsoever.

00:35:24.680 Not a lot of shopping out of women in those malls that dedicate 85% of their retail space to women. 1.00

00:35:30.400 That's right.

00:35:30.840 It's absolutely insane what's going on.

00:35:35.360 And what's really insane is that this information, this data, is right in line with the idea that men commit all domestic violence, that men can't be raped, that all this information that gets put out, all of it goes unchallenged.

00:35:52.980 You don't hear anybody in network news, mainstream news, standing up and saying, hey, where's the backup for this?

00:36:01.680 They've been parroting a false wage gap in the media for 20 years.

00:36:06.720 It has been put out in one form or another.

00:36:09.240 The most recent was in 2007, the American Association of University Women released a study that in their executive summary said that for every dollar earned by men, women earned 80%.

00:36:22.980 Buried in page 26 of that study, even the AAUW acknowledged that after you controlled for life choices, time on the job, education, and experience, that there wasn't a wage gap.

00:36:36.960 So it was in the very study that they used to prove there was a wage gap was the proof there wasn't a wage gap, and even that wasn't challenged. 0.59

00:36:46.620 That's just ridiculous.

00:36:48.460 Well, it sort of makes my job easier, to tell you the truth, because it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. 0.98

00:36:54.360 Yeah.

00:36:54.980 These people make it easy to prove how disingenuous they are.

00:36:58.660 The challenge is in whether or not anybody in the society cares, and whether or not that they have the courage, if they do care about it, to speak up.

00:37:11.140 And that's where we're lacking.

00:37:13.000 And you get accused of being a woman basher a lot, too, right? 0.97

00:37:16.500 All the time, I hate women, I eat kittens, I love people, I torture puppies for fun as a pastime. 1.00

00:37:26.860 I've been accused of everything. 1.00

00:37:29.280 I'm a left-wing ideologue, I'm a right-wing nutcase, I'm a libertarian jerk-off. 0.93

00:37:35.480 You name it, I've been accused of it from one side of the fence or the other. 0.74

00:37:39.160 But the fact of the matter is, is that every one of those ad hom attacks represents somebody that can't sit down and argue the points of fact.

00:37:49.060 That's right.

00:37:49.380 And so that sort of stuff does not bother me.

00:37:54.720 I sort of expect it, and I exploit it where it's necessary.

00:37:58.540 We just had McLean's magazine, one of the largest magazines in Canada, do a piece on us and misquoted me all the way through it, just blatantly lie.

00:38:08.900 And so I write an article about that, and it ends up drawing some of McLean's readers to a voice for men, and they start figuring out, hey, we're being lied to, I wonder why.

00:38:20.360 I want to ask you, what do you think about babies in America, I think this is horrible, baby boys being circumcised?

00:38:26.440 I think it is, I don't even use the C word. 0.52

00:38:31.820 It is male genital mutilation. 0.96

00:38:34.480 Yeah.

00:38:35.180 It is not a legitimate surgical procedure.

00:38:40.980 It's not a legitimate religious practice.

00:38:44.760 It is mutilating the sexual organs of most all male children born in this country.

00:38:51.060 It's doing something that we would not dream of doing, but it gets worse than that.

00:38:55.820 I don't know if you're familiar with it, but there's a campaign underway right now, and there's big pressure and money behind it, to circumcise 28 million African men of all ages by telling them that circumcision will prevent the transmission of HIV. 0.99

00:39:13.120 It's bullshit. 1.00

00:39:14.640 Of course it's bullshit. 1.00

00:39:15.960 It's absolute bullshit. 1.00

00:39:17.260 But there's a lot of money behind it, and it turns out that one of the biggest proponents working through the UN, I don't have his name right now, but I could get it to you, who is pushing this, along with Bill Gates, along with Hillary Clinton, and a few other people, also owns the patent on one of the clamping devices they're going to use in these 28 million circumcisions. 0.99

00:39:41.260 And they're going to use in these circumcisions. 0.91

00:39:42.900 Of course.

00:39:43.840 So the conflict of interest there is absolutely outrageous, but it's going ahead, and they are lining up political power in Africa. 0.63

00:39:53.880 They are recruiting clergy there to push the circumcision message, and then most importantly, they're recruiting women to tell men that if they want to have sex, if they want to be a real man, they'll get circumcised. 0.99

00:40:08.140 And they also tell women, oh, sex is better once they're circumcised, which is bullshit. 1.00

00:40:14.020 Absolutely. 0.99

00:40:15.320 And we have our news director, Robert O'Hara, has formed an African circumcision committee that's looking at this and doing reports on it.

00:40:26.020 He's been on the radio down there in Kenya.

00:40:31.380 It is absolutely amazing what's happening.

00:40:35.040 And, again, we go back to the cultural problem here.

00:40:39.120 We do have a real problem, and I wouldn't be the last person to assert that government is the solution.

00:40:45.660 But we have a very big problem with being wired not to see the sort of things that men go through.

00:40:53.240 It's how we can have a campaign to sexually mutilate 28 million people in Africa going on right now, 0.99

00:41:01.500 and nobody knows about it, and nobody cares.

00:41:04.460 It's amazing. 0.74

00:41:05.680 Yeah, there was a Scandinavian study that showed that guys that were circumcised, they lost their sensitivity, and they were craving more violent sex.

00:41:13.460 I did not see that, but I do know that there has just been a study released, finally, in empirical evidence that showed the exact number of nerve endings that were severed,

00:41:27.260 and the fact that a male genital mutilation reduces male sensitivity by upwards of 75%.

00:41:35.460 So the idea, now, I've not heard that that led to men desiring more vigorous or violent sex, but the idea, if they're desensitized,

00:41:48.660 that it might lead to more extremes in order to get sensitized, makes a certain amount of sense to me.

00:41:55.240 I'm going to be looking into that.

00:41:56.660 Yeah, I agree.

00:41:57.660 So, also, what do you think about boys being raised by single moms? 0.59

00:42:02.660 What's going to happen if a lot of boys in society just have a female presence in their life and no father? 0.96

00:42:08.820 Well, it's already happening.

00:42:10.120 They're filling our prisons.

00:42:12.080 They're filling our streets with gangs.

00:42:15.120 If we look at, and I would certainly recommend Warren Farrell's book, Father and Son Renewed,

00:42:21.400 and if you want to understand the importance of fathers, read that book.

00:42:25.220 All the research is there, meticulously documented.

00:42:29.940 When you look at any form of how we normally measure psychosocial development in boys,

00:42:37.280 and in females, too, because it affects young girls, too, to be raised without their fathers.

00:42:42.860 But if you look at things like suicide, teenage drug abuse, teen pregnancy, truancy, dropout rates,

00:42:48.740 mental illness, depression, school failure, any of the problems that you can imagine happening to you

00:42:57.080 that the normal parent worries about and faces, they are aggravated a dozen-fold

00:43:03.320 by having a father removed from the home.

00:43:07.840 That is not, to me, an indictment of women.

00:43:11.480 It is simply the truth.

00:43:13.220 Children need fathers in order to be fully functional. 1.00

00:43:19.200 And as we watch, it's amazing that a lot of this stems back to no-fault divorce.

00:43:25.440 One of the functions I do see for government is that I believe it's there to regulate contracts

00:43:30.820 and to do so in a very limited way, but it needs to happen, at least in my opinion.

00:43:37.240 Marriage is essentially a contract, but what we did in Reagan-era California when he was a governor,

00:43:44.820 he was the first governor to sign no-fault divorce into law.

00:43:49.320 And what that essentially meant was that it was a contract that you didn't have to honor.

00:43:54.680 And, of course, a contract you don't have to honor is not really a contract.

00:43:58.720 It's an incentive to get out of it because it's Tuesday or because the pool boy is hot.

00:44:03.340 And so we ended up with a skyrocketing divorce rate immediately after the advent of no-fault divorce,

00:44:11.980 which was passed with a real line of bullshit about how there were these millions of women 1.00

00:44:19.840 trapped in patriarchal abuse of marriages, and they just couldn't get out, the poor little darlings. 0.98

00:44:25.800 And so we had to pass legislation to make it easy for them to get out, 0.96

00:44:29.880 which is to say that we passed legislation that said you can get out of the marriage 0.61

00:44:34.520 and take the house and take the car and take the kids and take his income because you want to. 1.00

00:44:41.140 Not because he did anything wrong, not because he breached his end of the contract,

00:44:46.040 but simply because your therapist told you that you need to go find yourself.

00:44:50.440 And it started happening.

00:44:52.320 And as that happened, we also saw gang involvement skyrocket.

00:44:55.880 We saw truancy, all kinds of other problems start going through the ceiling.

00:45:01.700 And here we are 40, 45 years later with a bunch of social scientists running around saying,

00:45:06.940 gee, what's happening to our youth?

00:45:09.080 Yeah.

00:45:09.960 Well done.

00:45:12.000 Their nuclear family has been destroyed by our laws.

00:45:16.280 So talking about the nuclear family, it is important to have a family unit.

00:45:20.940 And within that, there are gender roles, right? 0.99

00:45:24.280 Well, I don't know how, actually how important the gender roles are in that family. 1.00

00:45:32.740 I think it's important for children to have a stable family, for them to have a mother and a father.

00:45:42.700 I think that parents can decide what those roles mean, that they don't have to be so rigid.

00:45:49.740 But I think when you take one of those two adults out of the picture,

00:45:53.820 and when they don't have any concept of masculinity other than watching Everybody Loves Raymond,

00:46:00.880 or something like that on television, then you run into real problems.

00:46:06.000 So, yeah, I mean, there's no denying that the nuclear family is the fabric of any society,

00:46:13.720 and that our society is in deep trouble now because the nuclear family has been so attacked, 0.78

00:46:22.020 and so maligned, and so destroyed.

00:46:24.720 Whether it needs to follow some really rigid guidelines from 1950 in order to qualify as healthy for children,

00:46:32.300 I'm not sure of, but I know that what we're doing now is horribly wrong.

00:46:37.180 Yeah, why does a family unit have to be something that someone else tells you what it is within a certain box,

00:46:42.140 a certain confined, because there's other families that are out there, you know,

00:46:45.860 but they're healthy, and they get along, and the unit's functioning.

00:46:49.920 Oh, absolutely.

00:46:50.880 You know, this is one of the things that comes up with the issue of gay marriage.

00:46:55.260 Now, oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you, I'm also accused of being a homophobe, too.

00:46:59.920 Oh, yeah. 0.97

00:47:00.520 You can't say anything about being gay without being attacked and being a homophobe. 0.96

00:47:08.800 I can't even have gay writers on my website without being attacked, because I do. 1.00

00:47:14.620 We have this horrific, crazy national argument going on about gay marriage. 0.88

00:47:21.100 Well, why is marriage a function of the state to begin with?

00:47:25.800 Yep.

00:47:26.360 Why do we have government involved?

00:47:28.240 Why do, what, it's like, why do we allow the state to govern our relationship?

00:47:34.600 I agree.

00:47:35.500 If we, marriage is ostensibly a religious institution.

00:47:41.420 If we allowed that, if we got out of the way and let people do what they wanted to do,

00:47:47.820 I think you would see a lot of the conflict decrease in a lot of our arguments.

00:47:52.460 We shouldn't be having an argument over whether or not to allow gay marriage.

00:47:57.360 We should be having an argument on whether or why we're allowing the state into our lives to begin with.

00:48:03.280 Exactly.

00:48:03.820 That's just it.

00:48:04.520 And that's a really strong point.

00:48:06.060 I'm glad you brought that up, because I, too, hear this come up again and again.

00:48:09.280 And that's also my take.

00:48:10.300 Have you also noticed that it seems soon, scientifically, we're heading towards maybe creating one gender, so we all get along?

00:48:20.940 We won't.

00:48:21.840 We'll figure out ways to go.

00:48:23.040 There'll be subdivisions of that gender. 0.98

00:48:26.860 I don't know.

00:48:27.920 I mean, maybe it's just my age, and I'm too old school, but the idea of even imagining a culture of one gender seems a little bit too Robert Heinlein to me.

00:48:43.380 Oh, yeah.

00:48:44.700 I'm going to defer to other people's opinions on that one.

00:48:48.480 I had one last question for you.

00:48:50.560 I noticed in school, too, there's loads of feminist anti-male teachers. 1.00

00:48:54.720 Is this planned?

00:48:55.780 Where are they coming from?

00:48:56.700 How are they getting in there?

00:48:58.360 Well, the academe is where they were produced to begin with.

00:49:01.540 It was academic feminism, and we've seen this played out in a lot of our work.

00:49:06.100 We've been involved with going to different university lectures where feminists are protesting and trying to shut down free speech at anybody trying to discuss men's issues. 1.00

00:49:16.600 That is the hotbed.

00:49:18.000 The war, a voice for men is growing in activism.

00:49:22.460 It's not just growing in readership.

00:49:24.080 It's growing in influence.

00:49:25.500 We are starting to become, I'm very proud to say, a player in this realm when there had never been any players in this realm that did not follow feminist narrative.

00:49:36.200 And we feel very strongly that this battle ideologically is going to be waged in our institutions of higher education.

00:49:46.960 We're working right now with the National Coalition for Men to establish men's centers in universities across the United States and Canada. 0.89

00:49:55.500 The reason for that being to give men a place of retreat from white ribbon campaigns and walk a mile in her shoes and slut walks and only men can stop rape. 1.00

00:50:07.580 And all this demonization because, you know, we, and it is funny in one way, but it's really not funny. 0.81

00:50:16.280 Right now in Canada at Hamilton College, every young man that attends that school has to start his first day by going to an orientation class called She Fears You.

00:50:28.160 And they marched in there and they are told every last one of you is a potential rapist. 0.72

00:50:36.860 Wow. 0.97

00:50:37.720 And we don't want you to leave this room until you admit it.

00:50:43.240 Yeah, I saw something like that up in Sweden.

00:50:46.260 They had something, but they're trying to tell you that everyone's really racist, but they're really just talking to all the white people.

00:50:51.980 Exactly.

00:50:52.420 But this is something we would expect from 1936 Berlin.

00:50:57.020 Sure, yeah. 0.97

00:50:57.960 To be done with Jews. 1.00

00:50:59.100 This is not something that you would think a society in 2013 would be engaged in, and we're doing it, and it's getting worse. 0.99

00:51:08.880 I'm surprised guys don't stand up and say, screw you, you know, speak for yourself.

00:51:13.100 It, again, it goes back to the programming. 0.96

00:51:15.260 For guys to stand up and say, screw you, which they are finally starting to do, they really have to be pushed into a corner.

00:51:23.840 And we're finally getting there. 0.95

00:51:25.380 Things are getting so bad with this stuff that men are finally starting to wake up and say, wait a minute, maybe these men's rights guys aren't such, you know, bug crazy after all.

00:51:35.340 Maybe what they're really talking about is really happening.

00:51:38.740 And I think that's a lot of why we're growing right now, is that people are starting to wake up, that this stuff has been out of control for a long, long time.

00:51:49.600 And now it's so out of control, you can't ignore it anymore.

00:51:53.100 Okay, really.

00:51:54.040 Last question for you.

00:51:55.380 How do you handle the idea of the man in religion, the bad God that's coming after people, or the chauvinism that's putting women down?

00:52:05.900 Well, I handle it really fine myself.

00:52:10.080 I'm an atheist.

00:52:11.380 So it sort of makes the point moot for me.

00:52:16.000 But there is, you know, still, there's always the other side of the coin to that.

00:52:22.760 Yeah, I think that there is this sort of has been a problem with a patriarchal God that did all kinds of things like squash science.

00:52:32.480 It's, it's always been there.

00:52:36.820 But at the same time, these are the, this is the same God that commanded all the men to go to war, that fosters gender roles, that harmed men as much as it did women.

00:52:50.000 So am I answering your question here?

00:52:52.300 Yeah, yeah, I agree. 1.00

00:52:53.180 I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I think that guy's an asshole. 1.00

00:52:55.120 I wouldn't follow him. 1.00

00:52:55.900 I can't believe people do.

00:52:57.400 I can't believe it still works.

00:52:58.820 You know, it works.

00:52:59.780 I used to have a bumper sticker on my car that said, I'd rather burn in hell than worship a God that would create one.

00:53:06.560 Oh, yeah, I know.

00:53:08.260 What a mess.

00:53:09.460 Yeah, that sort of vengeful idea of God.

00:53:12.920 It's easier for me since I really don't have an idea of God.

00:53:16.420 But if we're going to, and I don't mean this to be offensive to anybody of faith, because, you know, a voice of men has a lot of readers that are people of faith.

00:53:28.400 We just don't have much religious discussion for this reason, and it's pretty well known that I'm non-religious.

00:53:34.920 But if we're going to believe in deities, at least we ought to have the common sense as human beings to believe in deities with good values.

00:53:46.840 And right now, we're quite a ways from that.

00:53:51.140 Paul, thank you so much for your time and your hard work on your website, exposing what's lurking in the shadows.

00:53:56.260 Anything else you'd like to mention before we close?

00:53:58.620 Thank you for having me here.

00:54:00.000 It's been a very pleasant conversation.

00:54:01.660 A lot of the interviews that I have are not with people that actually want to hear the answers to the questions that they have.

00:54:10.760 So I just want to tell you, it's very refreshing to have had this conversation.

00:54:14.620 I'm glad to have been here, and I do hope that your listeners enjoy it.

00:54:18.220 And we'll hopefully come visit a voiceformen.com and see what we have to say.

00:54:22.680 All right.

00:54:23.080 Thank you.

00:54:23.580 And ladies and gentlemen, be kind to each other.

00:54:25.520 We'll talk soon.

00:54:31.660 And we'll talk soon.

00:55:01.660 I've been untrue He hit me, and it felt like a piss

00:55:16.660 He hit me, and I knew he loved me If he didn't care for me, I could have never made him mad

00:55:35.660 But he hit me, and I was glad 1.00

00:55:46.660 He hit me, and I knew he loved me If he didn't care for me

00:56:03.660 Yes, he hit me, and it felt like a piss

00:56:13.660 He hit me, and I knew I loved him

00:56:20.660 And then he took me in his arms With all the tenderness there is

00:56:31.660 And when he kissed me, he made me go

00:56:38.660 He hit me, and I knew he would have never made him

00:56:45.660 He hit me, and I knew he would have never made him

Radio 3Fourteen - August 07, 2013

A Voice for Men_ Feminist Misandry

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