Radio 3Fourteen - Anarchism _ Sovereignty

00:00:00.000 Call 1BB

00:00:04.000 Call 1BB

00:00:10.000 Call 1BB

00:00:16.000 The Gable

00:00:23.000 Complete妖怪 0.90

00:00:29.000 This is Radio 314 on the Red Ice Radio Network.

00:00:59.000 Nathan and guests discuss the legal system, how to fight back in court, and how to achieve

00:01:02.640 true autonomy with only one goal in mind, the goal of a free and voluntary society.

00:01:08.080 The site also covers the newest fronts in the battle against the New World Order and

00:01:12.300 offers free downloads of truth music and sovereignty literature.

00:01:16.240 Nathan is also the creator of MyGraffitiCake software.

00:01:19.920 Hello, Nathan.

00:01:20.600 How are you today?

00:01:22.260 Pretty good.

00:01:22.800 Thank you for having me on.

00:01:24.100 Great.

00:01:24.540 So how's Colorado?

00:01:26.740 Colorado is beautiful.

00:01:27.960 I've lived in various parts of this continent, the Northern American continent, and Colorado

00:01:36.180 is one of my favorite.

00:01:37.220 We got mountains, we got rivers, lakes, good variety of weather.

00:01:43.420 And the underground base, right?

00:01:46.080 And huge underground bases and probably going to be the next capital of the fictional United

00:01:53.600 States of America.

00:01:54.720 Oh, great.

00:01:55.380 Well, I had a big depopulation dream last night, so I hope that's not going to happen

00:02:00.360 anytime soon.

00:02:01.760 Oh, I hope so, too.

00:02:03.180 Well, I'm happy to have you on today because in my view, we're going to discuss one of the

00:02:06.100 most important topics of the day, which is freedom from government.

00:02:10.640 All right.

00:02:11.480 Just for laughs, I went on ADL.org the other day, and I saw they listed the sovereign citizen

00:02:18.540 movement as a, quote unquote, loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have

00:02:23.620 adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology, anti-government extremists with white supremacist elements.

00:02:30.580 The site goes on to say, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms

00:02:34.840 of authority using paper terrorism, harassment, and intimidation tactics.

00:02:39.320 Yeah, they're, they don't, they don't like sovereign citizens.

00:02:46.400 I don't really proclaim myself to be a sovereign citizen or part of the sovereign movement.

00:02:50.920 I do proudly wear the banner anarchist, though.

00:02:55.020 But they don't like sovereigns and they don't like anarchists just because even, even though

00:03:00.440 it's to varying degrees, it's a group of people or different groups of people that don't accept

00:03:06.380 the illegitimate authority of would-be rulers.

00:03:10.600 So they'll, they'll demonize both groups, anarchists and sovereigns as much as they can,

00:03:16.940 because it's something that completely terrifies the powers that be.

00:03:20.660 But they never say anything about the government, which is the most violent organization, creating

00:03:25.180 war, constant shakedowns, and threats of being imprisoned.

00:03:28.480 Oh yeah, well, it's part of the double standard.

00:03:33.340 It's, there's, there's rules for us and then there's rules for you and the rules for the

00:03:39.240 us, the power elite, everything that's bad for us to do, they have exemptions.

00:03:44.200 So when they commit mass murder, they just label it war and they don't have to suffer the

00:03:52.420 repercussions that us, the average people do.

00:03:54.960 You know, we've also had plenty of people writing us, telling us that we're right wing

00:03:58.460 extremists for covering this subject, you know, but freedom, freedom is beyond the left

00:04:03.820 and right paradigm. 1.00

00:04:04.660 So those people are just moronic. 1.00

00:04:07.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:04:07.760 Well, people, uh, people oftentimes have a tendency to, uh, demonize things that they fear.

00:04:14.440 So if something comes into their paradigm that completely, that threatens to completely undo

00:04:21.020 everything that they've previously held as truth, uh, the easiest way is to just demonize

00:04:28.360 it, label it something that you can, uh, it's like, uh, you, you give it a word that you

00:04:36.040 can easily demonize the word.

00:04:38.400 And then you just club that word at anybody that threatens the way you see things.

00:04:43.340 So before we begin, tell us how you came to the place where you are in your life right

00:04:47.980 now.

00:04:49.360 Well, I'm not, um, I'm not like your typical guests.

00:04:52.740 I'm not a college professor or anybody that's extremely well educated or, uh, I have no, I

00:05:01.780 guess, professional background in anything that qualifies me to be an authority on anything.

00:05:06.960 I've just been always very anti-authoritarian.

00:05:09.820 Um, I grew up in a lower income household.

00:05:14.280 My father was a member of the Mexican mafia.

00:05:19.840 And so I was heavily influenced by, um, I guess, anti-authoritarian beliefs from him as

00:05:28.920 well as my grandfather, who's a native American.

00:05:30.980 So he was really anti-US government and I got to hear all the evils of the United States

00:05:36.860 government.

00:05:37.200 So I never really grew up thinking that government was our friend or government was somebody that

00:05:42.760 was there to help us and protect us because I heard all the horrors and atrocities that

00:05:47.060 the government had committed to are committed on, um, other groups of people throughout history.

00:05:53.460 And, uh, so I always grew up with a very anti-authoritarian type of mentality.

00:05:58.260 Then when 9-11 happened and, uh, worldwide, we started seeing governments start cracking down

00:06:04.880 on freedom and using 9-11 and terrorism in general as an excuse.

00:06:09.480 I started, uh, I guess, fighting back the only way that I could with was, which was with my

00:06:15.120 freedom of speech.

00:06:16.060 And I started making music that was very anti-authoritarian and anti-government, I guess,

00:06:22.440 if people want to label it that.

00:06:24.900 And, uh, from there I realized that, I guess, swinging a bat at the beehive or thinking that

00:06:32.680 we could solve this problem.

00:06:34.120 Government itself is just basically the belief that it's okay to dominate and rule over other

00:06:39.000 people with violence.

00:06:39.920 It's okay to steal from people.

00:06:41.520 It's okay to boss people around and those who don't like it, it's okay to use violence

00:06:46.280 against them.

00:06:47.220 And, uh, I came to the, I guess, brilliant idea that resulting or resorting to violent

00:06:54.380 activity in retaliation to this was not going to be the answer.

00:06:59.960 Trying to fight fire with fire was not going to be the answer.

00:07:02.800 So I started looking into the legal system because it looked like that was one of the main

00:07:07.320 tools that they use against dissidents.

00:07:09.340 And, um, I started trying to find loopholes, I guess, or, or ways to work the legal system

00:07:16.080 to avoid being, uh, a political prisoner myself.

00:07:20.460 And, um, from there I started traveling down what people might refer to as the sovereignty

00:07:26.160 rabbit hole.

00:07:26.880 And I followed a bunch of bad advice from people who I now think were either con artists or people

00:07:36.360 who, uh, were snake oil salesmen or people who just repeated things without actually verifying

00:07:41.520 them.

00:07:42.420 And, uh, I ended up hitting a bunch of brick walls and then I fortunately, um, started meeting

00:07:50.020 other people who were of different belief, but they weren't really on the sovereignty path.

00:07:55.260 They were more on the anarchist path and, uh, they kind of laid out to me where they disagreed

00:08:01.920 with my, with my beliefs and, uh, kind of laid out a different path for me.

00:08:08.220 And ever since I started taking the approach of, of anarchist beliefs, when I, when I, uh,

00:08:14.600 take on my court cases, I've actually been a lot more successful than trying to take on

00:08:19.320 the sovereignty packages that are sold out there or the commercial redemption packages,

00:08:24.600 all of this stuff that is heavily promoted in the sovereignty movement.

00:08:28.620 I've really never had any success with, but, uh, taking the approach of, of anarchism and,

00:08:35.800 uh, and using that in the way that I fight my court cases has actually been a lot more

00:08:41.280 successful.

00:08:42.120 So, well, before we get into the differences between anarchism and sovereignty, I think we

00:08:46.940 should identify what form of anarchism you're talking about because there's anarcho-communism,

00:08:51.980 anarcho-socialism, collectivist anarchism, you know, but it's all pretty much state-ism.

00:08:57.520 So what is the kind of anarchism you're talking about?

00:09:00.960 Uh, you know, even I really don't know that.

00:09:05.200 I just, I believe in autonomy.

00:09:07.100 I believe in self-ownership.

00:09:08.500 I believe that individuals own themselves and nobody has the claim of right to own or

00:09:14.040 issue orders for another individual.

00:09:15.940 Um, I do believe in free market because I believe in freedom.

00:09:20.900 I think that people should be able to trade and sell and buy completely unregulated as

00:09:26.360 long as they're not injuring anybody else.

00:09:28.860 Um, so some people would say that I'm an anarcho-capitalist.

00:09:32.860 I'm, I really don't think that I'm an anarcho-capitalist.

00:09:36.040 I just claim that I'm an anarchist.

00:09:38.140 Uh, I, I see some redeeming value to some of the beliefs in anarcho-socialism.

00:09:43.740 Uh, I just don't, I don't believe in forcing other people to become part of a collective.

00:09:50.320 I think that if people want to be part of a collective, if they want to share, uh, I'm

00:09:56.200 all for that.

00:09:57.100 If people want to trade rather than share, I'm all for that as well.

00:10:00.820 So, uh, basically I just don't believe in rulers.

00:10:05.640 I don't believe that anybody has the right to rule over anybody else.

00:10:08.980 So that for me is anarchy because it's the very definition of the word, anarchy, no rulers.

00:10:15.580 So, uh, I don't really ascribe a particular political, um, blend or, or flavor to the

00:10:24.040 anarchy that I believe in.

00:10:25.160 I just believe that as long as people respect each other as sovereign sentient individuals,

00:10:30.260 which is the reality of the situation, we all do own ourselves.

00:10:34.800 And as long as people will respect other people's self-ownership, um, that's basically what my

00:10:40.840 entire philosophy on life comes down to.

00:10:43.600 Okay.

00:10:44.160 I think it's a good time for you to address the differences between the two ideals of

00:10:47.340 anarchism and sovereignty.

00:10:50.160 Well, the two are very similar and that's why groups like the ADL can kind of blend the

00:10:55.680 two together and, and, uh, demonize both groups at one time.

00:10:59.340 But the sovereignty belief is, is varied from anarchy in a few aspects.

00:11:07.140 Uh, both of them believe in self-ownership and both of them believe in, uh, the idea that

00:11:13.900 humanity, the human being should be above any of its ideas, which government is just an idea.

00:11:19.840 It's, it's a, a belief system that people either blindly accept or accept because it's forced

00:11:27.720 on them at the barrel of a gun.

00:11:29.940 Sovereigns usually believe that there is some sort of legitimate government and there's a

00:11:34.900 bunch of different theories in the sovereignty movement as to the legitimacy of government,

00:11:39.620 government, but sovereigns typically believe that there's a Republic and it's legitimate

00:11:46.280 and are legitimate and it has the right to rule the way that it rules.

00:11:52.360 But the sovereign is above that government and the government is supposed to do the will

00:11:56.320 of the sovereign.

00:11:57.700 And, uh, they believe that for the most part, I don't like to make blanket statements, but

00:12:02.840 for the most part, the, the common conception that's pushed amongst amongst the sovereignty

00:12:09.080 gurus is that the government is legitimate.

00:12:12.200 They're babysitters.

00:12:13.500 And that if you can prove to them that you don't deserve to be babysat over, then you can

00:12:20.160 be above their system.

00:12:21.380 And everybody who wants to be babysat over or everybody who's ignorant of the fact that

00:12:26.580 there's these two different forms of government, the Republic and the democracy, or, uh, the

00:12:32.060 de facto and the du jour, whichever way they want to label it.

00:12:35.380 They, they basically pronounce that there is a legitimate need for government.

00:12:39.860 And if you can put in the particular type of paperwork, the government will leave you alone.

00:12:44.900 But if you don't, then the government has the right to do these things to you.

00:12:49.780 If you haven't made your claim, or if you haven't put in your UCC one, or if you have

00:12:55.160 accepted all of these things that they call adhesion contracts, if you have the social security

00:13:00.780 number, if you have the driver's license, then the government has legitimate right to

00:13:05.320 rule over you.

00:13:06.460 But if you've gotten rid of those things, or if you put in the correct paperwork, or if

00:13:10.580 you've got it apostilled by the correct person, then the government no longer has the right

00:13:15.220 to rule over you.

00:13:16.120 That's the sovereign, uh, mentality.

00:13:19.040 The anarchist mentality is that government is completely illegitimate from top to bottom.

00:13:23.720 It has no right to rule over anybody.

00:13:26.080 Whether you have a driver's license or not, the government, that doesn't issue somebody

00:13:30.380 the right to rule over you.

00:13:31.480 Whether you have a social security card, a birth certificate, whether or not you filed a

00:13:36.060 UCC one, whether or not you understand contract law, whether or not you understand the difference

00:13:41.540 of a democracy or a republic, all of the government is fictional.

00:13:46.420 Therefore, the rights that they claim to have do not really exist.

00:13:51.300 And, um, for me, that's the more logical way of looking at it.

00:13:55.320 Somebody, nobody has the right to force anybody to do anything against their will, unless it's

00:14:00.200 in, in means of, of defense.

00:14:02.120 Uh, so for me, government is illegitimate, whether they have these adhesion contracts

00:14:07.980 or not.

00:14:08.540 So that's basically the main difference.

00:14:11.860 Sovereigns believe that they should be free from government oppression, but everybody who's 0.96

00:14:15.680 ignorant deserves government oppression. 0.98

00:14:17.640 And anarchists believe that everybody should be free from government oppression.

00:14:22.600 When you were on the sovereign road, what are some things that you tried that didn't

00:14:26.480 pan up?

00:14:28.260 I, I tried pretty much everything.

00:14:30.500 Um, I tried putting in affidavits.

00:14:33.460 I tried putting in, uh, accepted for value is a really popular one that they, there's

00:14:39.260 this whole belief.

00:14:40.400 And I don't, I'm not discrediting the belief.

00:14:42.680 I don't know whether it's true or not, but there's this whole belief that, uh, there's

00:14:47.400 some sort of bank account created off of our all capital letter name.

00:14:52.260 And if you can get access to that bank account, you can use it to charge off your debts.

00:14:58.020 You can use it to charge off your criminal, uh, accounts because according to a lot of

00:15:03.280 these people, all crime is actually commercial.

00:15:06.720 And if you can use your, uh, your social security trust or whatever it is that you're just the

00:15:13.640 administrator of, if you can use that correctly, then you can have the courts, uh, write off your

00:15:20.840 criminal charges as a commercial transaction.

00:15:24.800 Um, I've tried that stuff, never had success with it.

00:15:27.900 I've tried refusal for cause.

00:15:30.180 I've tried claiming common law jurisdiction.

00:15:32.740 I've tried so many different things.

00:15:34.580 I've probably took it on close to 30 or 40 court cases and, uh, a majority of the stuff

00:15:41.520 that I was trying up until about three years ago, a majority of the stuff that I was trying,

00:15:45.860 I just constantly hit brick walls.

00:15:47.900 And it really was frustrating because the people that were teaching it, these gurus, and I'm

00:15:51.800 not really going to get into naming who these people are, but I had close contact with a

00:15:55.580 lot of the really pronounced people in the movement.

00:15:58.480 And, um, they would be helping me.

00:16:01.240 They'd say, okay, you need to put this in, you need to do this, this, and this.

00:16:04.440 And when you get up to this, up to the bar, you need to say this before you cross the bar

00:16:08.900 and all these different little, like, uh, hidden things that you really can't find any

00:16:14.840 evidence for anywhere in their, in their, uh, rules of evidence or rules of procedure or

00:16:20.580 anything.

00:16:20.940 And it would never work.

00:16:22.300 And every time that it wouldn't work, I would come back to them and be like, okay, it didn't

00:16:26.440 work for me.

00:16:27.140 And they'd be like, oh, well, it's because you signed your name in the wrong color of

00:16:31.220 ink, or you didn't sign it at the right angle when you accepted it for value.

00:16:35.080 So there was always an excuse.

00:16:37.180 And after a while of running into a brick wall, I just had to give up on it.

00:16:42.200 So how were you treated in the courts with the judges? 0.97

00:16:46.100 More often than not, I was treated like a lunatic. 0.97

00:16:50.240 Wow.

00:16:52.440 And there's a lot of people I know that are very interested in this stuff.

00:16:55.880 And I don't want to rain on their parade and I don't want to, um, damper their enthusiasm

00:17:01.760 for it.

00:17:02.720 But I would just say, if somebody's telling you to do something, or if they're saying

00:17:07.540 that this is the way the courts operate, uh, make sure that you can actually find it in

00:17:13.680 the court's own paperwork.

00:17:15.020 If they're saying, uh, when you get up to the bar, make sure that you say this, this,

00:17:20.020 and this, so that that way the judge knows that you're standing in this particular realm,

00:17:25.360 make sure that you can actually look into the court's own paperwork and find evidence that

00:17:30.380 they actually respect it.

00:17:31.500 Because if not, it's a good chance that the person is just selling you a line of, um, of

00:17:38.420 bogusness.

00:17:39.220 So do you want to tell us how you approach court cases from the anarchist mentality?

00:17:45.860 Um, yeah, well, I'll have to give a little bit of a, a buildup for it.

00:17:50.940 Um, the way that I look at world basically is that human beings are all free and the government

00:17:58.600 itself is a fiction.

00:18:00.840 It's not something that's real.

00:18:02.140 It's something that we all believe in.

00:18:04.240 It's something that we all build monuments to, but it's not something that's real.

00:18:08.740 And when you look at, uh, previous giant successful civilizations, if you look at Greece, if you

00:18:15.920 look at Rome, if you look at the way that they built their societies and the gods that

00:18:20.880 they worshiped, they all believed in it, but it didn't make it real.

00:18:26.440 They built monuments to it.

00:18:28.040 They built cathedrals and statutes to these previous gods, but it didn't ever make any of

00:18:34.020 them real.

00:18:34.640 And you had people that claimed to represent these gods and you had people that claimed

00:18:39.520 the authority to take tithings from everybody else.

00:18:42.500 And people that claimed the authority to, uh, be able to judge you for your transgressions

00:18:47.580 against their gods.

00:18:48.660 And they had the ability to, um, forgive you and offer forgiveness for your transgressions.

00:18:54.120 But just because they claimed these things, it doesn't make it real.

00:18:58.360 And when you look how those societies fell and you can look back and you can still see the

00:19:03.120 statutes, you can still see the writings.

00:19:05.620 You can still see that people absolutely went from birth to grave believing in these

00:19:11.140 things a hundred percent. 0.87

00:19:12.940 But would you look at it now and we can say, oh, what a silly superstition that they held.

00:19:17.480 You can see how arbitrary the belief is.

00:19:20.060 And the belief in government is the same thing.

00:19:21.760 It's a very arbitrary belief.

00:19:23.140 It's not anything that's, I mean, you can't point to anything and say that's government right

00:19:28.820 there.

00:19:29.100 It's just people just like back then.

00:19:31.300 It was just people putting on priest uniforms and making stuff up in order to control other

00:19:36.300 people.

00:19:36.560 That's what it's a religion.

00:19:38.160 It's that's all it is.

00:19:39.440 Yeah, it absolutely is a religion.

00:19:41.440 And my whole thing is it's not real.

00:19:45.680 It's all an illusion.

00:19:46.840 It's all it's just the it's the current religion, but it's not any more real than believing in

00:19:52.920 Dionysus or believing in Zeus or Odin.

00:19:57.580 All of those things, when you look from it or when you look at it from the outside, you 0.86

00:20:02.420 can realize how arbitrary and how silly it is. 0.91

00:20:04.880 And that's how I look at government. 0.68

00:20:06.340 That's how I look at the court system.

00:20:08.000 It's all arbitrary. 0.98

00:20:09.220 It's all silly. 0.78

00:20:09.940 It's not real. 0.92

00:20:10.820 None of it is based in reality.

00:20:12.160 It's all based off of belief.

00:20:14.900 And so you have to first get that through your head that there's no reason to believe

00:20:19.620 in all of this stuff.

00:20:21.420 And then once you realize that the whole thing is just a scam, once you realize that somebody

00:20:28.680 putting on a black robe and hammering down on his desk with a gavel doesn't actually have

00:20:36.460 power over you, he doesn't actually have the power to decide how you're going to live

00:20:40.400 your life.

00:20:40.860 Once you get that through your head, it's just a matter of approaching, trying to get

00:20:47.940 them to understand that as well through a series of questions.

00:20:51.340 So the way that I approach things is, number one, I study all of their stuff.

00:20:56.740 I study like any, like any studier of history would want to go through and understand the

00:21:04.440 way that ancient civilizations believed, even though I don't want to believe it.

00:21:09.440 But I want to understand what they believe so I can actually have a line of dialogue with

00:21:13.560 them where we're on the same page.

00:21:14.920 I study the rules of evidence.

00:21:16.360 I study the rules of criminal and civil procedure, and I want to understand how their court system

00:21:22.540 works.

00:21:23.640 And through doing that, it's made me come to the conception that I really can't believe

00:21:28.180 hardly anything that I was instructed on when I was going through the sovereignty stuff,

00:21:34.040 because there's no evidence for any of it in the rules of procedure or the rules of evidence.

00:21:38.420 But I want to come to the table, understanding where they're coming from, understanding how

00:21:46.000 their game works, but also understanding that the whole thing is illegitimate and how to use

00:21:51.420 the way that they work to bring them to the same understanding or to get them to the point where

00:21:56.700 they either admit that it's all illegitimate or they do what is usually the easiest thing for

00:22:03.020 them to do is just to get me out of there and dismiss my case.

00:22:06.480 Yeah.

00:22:07.200 It seems like it's just easier to just drop off the radar and do your own thing instead

00:22:11.840 of saying, here I am and going to court, don't you think?

00:22:16.020 I would agree with that, except for the fact that if you look historically at the way that

00:22:22.440 government and states have worked since we've come up with them, and I'll just use the United

00:22:28.080 States as an example, there used to be a lot of area where you could actually just drop

00:22:35.700 off of the map.

00:22:36.780 And when like the East Coast of the United States started becoming too successful in their

00:22:44.120 government ventures, a lot of people decided to head out West when the government in the

00:22:48.540 East Coast became too oppressive and became too tax hungry and too regulated.

00:22:54.540 People started moving out to the wild, wild West and you had people that went out into

00:22:59.920 the Appalachian Mountains.

00:23:01.360 You had people that went out into the great west of Wyoming and Colorado and then you had

00:23:07.860 people that went all the way out to California and there was a lot less government there.

00:23:12.400 But the very nature of the state, the very nature of these people that are attracted to this

00:23:19.640 position of power that we now call government, the very nature of them is to grow.

00:23:23.940 And to consume as much as they can and to always lust for more power.

00:23:29.580 So you can always run and hide and drop off of the map.

00:23:35.860 But there's been people that have went out to the mountains and stayed out there for 15,

00:23:42.020 20 years.

00:23:42.720 And then when they get caught finally by a forest ranger or something, then they get brought

00:23:47.460 up on all kinds of charges.

00:23:48.700 So for me personally, I avoid a fight if at all possible.

00:23:54.540 But that doesn't mean that I am not going to take the foresight to learn the weapons that

00:24:00.860 my enemy is going to use against me so that if I do have to fight them, I'm not going into

00:24:06.220 it unprepared.

00:24:06.960 So from your view, what are some pointers and tips you can give to help navigate around

00:24:11.300 basically the paper prison we're forced to live in?

00:24:15.900 Well, first of all, I'll approach that from two different ways.

00:24:19.380 If you if you if you look at it as you're going to have to deal with these people, I mean, if

00:24:26.220 you if you want to drive, if you want to have the convenience of being able to jump in a car

00:24:32.060 and go from here to there, you're probably going to have to deal with these people.

00:24:36.000 If you want to if you want to have any kind of constructive social interaction with people,

00:24:44.800 you're probably going to have to deal with the bureaucrats that call themselves government. 1.00

00:24:49.960 So the way that I approach it is, like I said, understand what weapons they're going to use

00:24:56.460 against you, understand how to defend yourself against those weapons.

00:24:59.720 And at the same time, the the other part that it's it's kind of like a twofold approach

00:25:07.140 is to understand that it's all illegitimate and to live as free as you possibly can.

00:25:12.980 The way that the way that I live my life is I understand that a lot of the things that

00:25:17.520 I do are considered illegal.

00:25:20.900 I make the decision for myself.

00:25:22.860 Is this a moral thing to do?

00:25:24.340 Is this something that I believe is is fruitful for my life?

00:25:27.860 If if they want to say it's illegal to grow your own food in your front yard, I'm going

00:25:34.240 to say, is that an immoral thing for me to do?

00:25:36.600 Is it or is it something that can enrich me?

00:25:38.460 And if it's something that's moral and can enrich me, then I'm going to do it, whether

00:25:42.580 or not somebody wrote down on a piece of paper that I'm not allowed to do it.

00:25:46.300 And knowing that those people who wrote it down on a piece of paper that I can't do it,

00:25:52.100 knowing that they're going to come and attack me, then that's when coming, you know, understanding

00:25:57.700 how they're going to attack me and understanding how to defend myself when that inevitably happens.

00:26:03.960 That's that's the twofold.

00:26:05.480 Live as free as you possibly can.

00:26:07.160 And but also at the same time, understand that when you live free, you're going to make

00:26:11.740 yourself a target.

00:26:12.960 And when you make yourself a target, you better know how to defend yourself when people come

00:26:16.800 and attack you.

00:26:17.920 I think there's also something that should be said for the observer effect.

00:26:20.720 Like, for instance, like you were saying, you believe it's a moral decision.

00:26:24.500 You know, you don't want to support tyrants and you don't want to pay for bombs that kill

00:26:27.940 people and so forth and so on.

00:26:30.080 And so then I feel like reality kind of catches up to whatever you want it to be.

00:26:35.400 So all the details around you will kind of just go the direction that it needs to go.

00:26:39.880 If you just believe I'm doing the right thing, then somehow you kind of just stay off the

00:26:43.840 radar and you won't get caught.

00:26:44.980 You know what I mean?

00:26:48.240 I halfway agree with that.

00:26:50.680 And I think that there's I've been a longtime listener of Red Ice Creations Radio, and I've

00:26:57.760 delved into like synchronicities and synchromysticism and stuff like that.

00:27:02.960 And I definitely think that there's ways that the universe is altered and ways that the

00:27:10.560 universe is affected by the way that we approach things.

00:27:14.020 I don't know to what extent I that's just way beyond my ability to even grasp or comprehend.

00:27:20.000 But I do believe that there's something to that.

00:27:22.260 But but also at the same time, being that I have been targeted by police, being that

00:27:28.680 I have been targeted by judges since I started doing this stuff, if if you do it quietly,

00:27:36.220 you'll probably be left alone.

00:27:37.840 But I'm not really the type of person that does it quietly.

00:27:40.340 I'm more of the type of person that likes to be very vocal about the way I see things.

00:27:45.600 And that tends to attract people who want to shut you up.

00:27:49.960 That's true.

00:27:50.360 Yeah, whereas if someone was quiet, maybe they did some of these things and they believed,

00:27:56.320 no, I'm doing the right thing, then reality will just align for them in a different way.

00:28:00.720 Yeah, I think that there's definitely some truth to that.

00:28:03.460 And even inside of the courtroom.

00:28:07.280 I've I've helped a lot of people with cases other than just my own and the people that were

00:28:13.420 usually the most they kept to themselves.

00:28:17.100 They weren't very much troublemakers and they were very humble and they just didn't want

00:28:21.820 to be taken advantage of by the system.

00:28:23.920 Those people have consistently been the most successful in getting their cases thrown out.

00:28:29.180 So whether it's some sort of force in the universe that causes it to happen or whether it's just

00:28:34.500 human nature, either way, it's probably beyond my ability to understand all the mechanisms going

00:28:41.080 beyond or that that are working together to make that happen.

00:28:44.480 But it does seem to fare out that way.

00:28:47.100 Have you encountered any threats of imprisonment or fines yet?

00:28:50.660 I've been threatened with contempt quite a few times and I've pretty much every time I get

00:29:00.320 pulled over, I get the same baseless threat.

00:29:04.220 Oh, we're going to get you this time.

00:29:05.720 We're going to lock you up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 0.98

00:29:08.400 When you stand up to a bully, sometimes the bully will have a tendency just to leave you alone.

00:29:14.500 But when you start getting other people to stand up to the bully or when you start encouraging or

00:29:19.120 helping other people stand up to the bully, the bully starts to realize he's going to lose all of

00:29:23.720 the lunch money from the entire playground that he's been stealing.

00:29:27.120 And they tend to want to make an example out of you.

00:29:30.480 So I've definitely had judges and police officers try and use me to make an example for other people

00:29:37.060 that might be contemplating standing up.

00:29:40.360 So how is this going to work then if the control system is getting more advanced?

00:29:44.500 And eventually it's going to be there's more technology so you can't hide all your moves

00:29:49.000 are monitored.

00:29:49.900 So how do we get around that?

00:29:53.600 You know, technology is a double edged sword.

00:29:57.220 It's it's very capable of completely imprisoning everybody.

00:30:03.400 And it's also very capable of completely releasing everybody from their bondage.

00:30:09.460 A lot of the new technologies that are coming online.

00:30:12.040 I recently just did an entire episode on 3D printers and the ability that 3D printers have

00:30:19.480 to just completely revolutionize the marketplace.

00:30:23.080 And when you look at these new technologies that are coming out like 3D printers or when

00:30:27.520 you look at education, there's there's online places like Coursera, MIT, which is one of the

00:30:34.360 top colleges here in America, Coursera and a lot of other different educational type of websites

00:30:45.220 are offering complete college classes absolutely for free.

00:30:48.960 You take the course, you get graded on it, you get your certificate and it's all done absolutely

00:30:54.820 for free and you're actually certified.

00:30:56.380 So it's actual certification that you've passed and you understand and you're you're capable

00:31:01.840 of applying the knowledge.

00:31:04.220 And when you look at things like that, when you look at alternative currencies that are

00:31:09.320 starting to spring up, one of the most prevalent as far as technology goes is like the Bitcoin

00:31:15.060 thing that's going on.

00:31:16.920 There's there's all of these things in technology right now that the way I see it is we're at

00:31:23.460 a we're at a point as as the human species, we're at a point and we have all of this technology

00:31:31.080 and we can either allow it to continue to enslave us.

00:31:35.340 We can allow this belief in this thing called government and this belief that people have the

00:31:40.600 right to rule over us.

00:31:41.780 And they can take that technology and tighten their grip and excessively rule over us.

00:31:47.360 Or we can say, hey, you guys are illegitimate.

00:31:49.820 You guys do not have the ability to do the things that you're doing.

00:31:53.040 It's not based in in fact, it's all based off of your arbitrary whims and we're not going

00:31:59.500 to go along with it anymore.

00:32:00.620 And more than likely, it's going to be a struggle for them to give up the power.

00:32:05.820 Most people, once they have power, they don't relinquish it without a fight.

00:32:09.020 But it's just like the old the old priesthoods from the ancient religions that we were talking

00:32:15.980 about earlier.

00:32:16.540 When the people stopped believing in those gods, sure, the priests didn't want to give

00:32:21.820 up the power.

00:32:22.740 But as time would tell, it was inevitable that they had to give up the power.

00:32:28.520 And I think that as as humanity, we're at a point right now with our communication abilities

00:32:36.260 the way they are with our manufacturing abilities, the way that they are with the ability to transfer

00:32:43.640 knowledge the way that it is now and to communicate with people in other areas of the world.

00:32:50.520 Like right now, you're you're in Sweden and I'm in America, quote unquote, and we can have

00:32:56.780 this conversation at pretty much the speed of light.

00:33:00.040 But the technology is there to completely set us free or it's there to completely enslave

00:33:05.500 us.

00:33:05.720 And it's really up to us to decide, do we want to continue down the road that we've

00:33:09.760 been going down or do we want to try a new path?

00:33:12.120 And if we decide to try a new path, the technology will set us free.

00:33:16.180 If we decide to continue down the old path, the technology will enslave us.

00:33:22.020 Well, what do you feel is going to go down in the US in the coming years?

00:33:24.920 Oh, I really try not to speculate on it for only one reason.

00:33:32.540 I've been kind of awake to all of this stuff pre 9-11.

00:33:36.820 I was I was like I said, I was very anti authoritarian and anti government my entire life.

00:33:44.100 And when 9-11 happened was really when I started looking into the more esoteric sides

00:33:50.340 of it.

00:33:50.580 I started looking into, you know, false flag terrorism for one.

00:33:55.760 And then I started looking into the all the different secret societies and the power that

00:34:00.260 Rome is held, the power that the Zionists hold. 1.00

00:34:03.140 I started looking into all of that stuff.

00:34:05.440 And for the first like four or five years, I was completely terrified for the future because

00:34:10.740 I was like one out of a thousand people that had an understanding of what was going on.

00:34:15.760 And now, though, and I'm sure that you guys are probably seeing this in a reflection of

00:34:20.200 of your audience as well.

00:34:22.260 Now, though, it seems like a lot of people are starting to wake up to it.

00:34:25.640 And it's like a lot of people are starting to understand what's going on and they're starting

00:34:30.480 to look for answers.

00:34:31.400 And I'm one of those answers driven type of person.

00:34:33.780 I don't or people I don't really like to just focus on the problems that we're facing.

00:34:38.640 I like to focus on the solutions that can be implemented.

00:34:41.160 And the the ultimate solution, in my opinion, the only solution that's going to work is

00:34:48.280 for people to realize that they own themselves, that nobody has the right to dictate to them

00:34:54.320 how they're going to live their lives or how they're going to spend their money.

00:34:58.840 And it seems like a lot more people are willing to understand that now, whereas 10 years ago,

00:35:06.260 most people, you know, had absolute faith in government, they had absolute faith that

00:35:13.200 they were citizens and they had to, you know, they believed in the religion.

00:35:17.280 And it seems like now a lot of people are being able to to break free of that belief.

00:35:23.100 So five years ago, I would have said we're completely doomed.

00:35:27.680 But in the past five years, I've seen so many people wake up and so many people come to the

00:35:34.440 belief that they do own themselves and so many people actually starting to stand up for their

00:35:39.280 own self-ownership that I don't really know which way it's going to go.

00:35:44.320 I really think that it's a 50 50. 0.97

00:35:46.420 We could go in the we can go down the route of total enslavement, which a lot of people

00:35:51.760 promote.

00:35:52.720 That's the only way that we're going to go.

00:35:54.300 Or we can go down the route of total freedom.

00:35:57.020 And I'm hoping I'm pushing and I'm putting all of my effort into leading humanity down

00:36:04.580 the route of ultimate freedom.

00:36:07.340 That's right.

00:36:07.680 That's a good thing to focus on right now.

00:36:09.500 I know I have a lot of friends back home that are worried, oh, no, they're going to haul

00:36:12.440 us all off to camps and kill us. 0.94

00:36:14.200 And I don't think it's going to go down that way. 0.83

00:36:16.080 And I certainly don't want to think that and uphold that kind of thinking, you know?

00:36:19.760 Well, and the other thing about it is what gives them their power is there is our belief

00:36:27.140 that their power is legitimate.

00:36:29.440 And when they start pulling off, I mean, if you look at the totalitarian societies that

00:36:37.400 have fallen in the past, the biggest thing that led to their downfall was their own people 1.00

00:36:42.900 stopped believing in the legitimacy of their leaders.

00:36:45.420 And if if our government, the government that claims the right to rule over all of us and

00:36:52.880 dictate how we live our lives, they can continue down the path that they're doing.

00:36:58.120 And they're really just shooting themselves in the foot.

00:37:00.980 And this goes for all governments worldwide.

00:37:02.940 And if we do ever have an eventual one world government, I think it'll be the same thing.

00:37:08.440 The bigger a government gets, the more oppressive it gets, the more violent it gets, and the

00:37:13.820 more of the people underneath it start to question its legitimacy.

00:37:17.500 And the more of the people start to question the legitimacy of it, the less power it has

00:37:22.400 over those people.

00:37:23.960 And as time goes on, more and more people will question it.

00:37:27.980 And once the once there's a breaking point, once the tide changes, then it's just it loses

00:37:35.160 all of its power.

00:37:36.160 And that's every great society throughout history.

00:37:38.620 That's basically been the downfall is, is they took too much from the people and the

00:37:44.300 people stopped believing the legitimacy of that, that particular control system.

00:37:49.040 And once that happens, all of the FEMA camps, all of the sound weapons, all of the control

00:37:56.440 that they can exercise is absolutely useless.

00:37:59.960 If the people stop believing that they have the right to do those things to them, then they

00:38:05.780 lose the right and they lose the ability to continue doing those things.

00:38:09.580 And then you go somewhere like Sweden, which is a socialist, very collectivist style government.

00:38:15.560 And the people are just I mean, the war is on against the individual.

00:38:18.980 They are ousted, they are crushed, you know, it just doesn't work here.

00:38:22.820 And it's this kind of Soviet style government, I think, is what the New World Order is just dreaming 0.87

00:38:27.820 about having because it just crushes all freedom, you know.

00:38:31.120 But up here, it's the people have just learned to love it and accept it.

00:38:34.740 Actually, they defend their government up here.

00:38:38.100 Yeah.

00:38:38.440 And you'll you'll run into that.

00:38:40.100 A lot of people, especially when you do eliminate the individual, when you eliminate the the individual's

00:38:49.300 person or their ability to recognize themselves as an individual, a lot of times they'll supplement

00:38:57.120 their own personality with their government.

00:38:59.760 So and this also happens in a lot of religions.

00:39:03.000 And I don't want to bash anybody's religious beliefs, but it is just a fact.

00:39:07.020 You take like the average person who's a Christian and what they lack in their own ability to think 1.00

00:39:13.440 or their own ability to come to their own conclusions.

00:39:16.280 They supplement their their religion.

00:39:18.960 And when you say something negative about Christianity, they take that as a negative attack against

00:39:25.080 them because they they identify with their belief system rather than with who they actually

00:39:30.280 are.

00:39:31.400 And so, like I said, it can go either way.

00:39:35.380 But as far as what's natural to human beings, it takes a lot of propaganda and brute force

00:39:43.720 in order to get people to to bend to that type of of a society.

00:39:48.420 It doesn't just happen naturally.

00:39:50.160 And here in America, they spend trillions and trillions of dollars on public education, on

00:39:59.000 mass media.

00:40:00.460 They spend all kinds of money on police and prisons and court systems.

00:40:05.900 They're basically spending more than they can afford to spend in order to keep the sham going.

00:40:11.060 But it's eventually going to come undone as far as as far as the way I look at it, because

00:40:17.240 realistically, just the nature of humanity, the nature of human beings is to be free.

00:40:24.160 And it takes a lot of effort to wipe that out.

00:40:27.960 And it takes a lot of effort to maintain the illusion that we should be ruled over.

00:40:32.880 So in in my opinion, I don't think that it can go on for very much further.

00:40:39.640 But I think that over the last year worldwide, we've seen people standing up and saying no

00:40:46.740 to it.

00:40:47.360 And I think that that's just going to continue.

00:40:49.960 And their reaction on the other side might be to up the violence.

00:40:54.640 It might be to, you know, lay down the iron fist a lot more heavily than they have in the

00:41:00.480 past.

00:41:00.900 But really, that's just going to work out to our benefit and their detriment, because

00:41:05.340 it's just going to continue to expose them as how illegitimate they actually are.

00:41:10.340 That's right.

00:41:10.760 I think it's going to separate the makers from the takers.

00:41:14.060 You know, Nietzsche spoke of these ideas.

00:41:16.520 He said, I'm going to read a quote here.

00:41:17.800 He said, the modern state and mass society reduce ideals and tastes to the lowest common

00:41:22.780 denominator and produce mediocre individuals devoid of creative force, ultimately advancing

00:41:28.300 the decline of the human species.

00:41:29.920 Yeah, and that's what it comes down to is human beings have in their nature to express

00:41:36.900 themselves.

00:41:38.400 When you look at it just purely scientifically and you take like the evolution approach of

00:41:45.300 humanity, there's different things that if you believe in evolution, which I wasn't

00:41:53.000 around throughout all of humanity.

00:41:54.460 So I don't really know, you know, how we came to be where we're at, but evolution seems

00:42:00.160 to make sense to me on certain levels.

00:42:01.680 So if you look at things like the ability to hunt and gather, the ability to use your

00:42:07.960 eyes, use your ears, all of these senses that we have, those all make sense.

00:42:11.500 But then when you look at things like the ability to dance, the ability to paint, the ability

00:42:17.700 to do all of these things that really only serve the purpose of expressing ourselves and

00:42:23.760 bringing entertainment and joy to other people.

00:42:26.760 When you look at those things, they don't really serve a evolutionary function, but they

00:42:32.020 are absolutely necessary and they're absolutely part of human nature.

00:42:36.480 And the more oppressive a regime is, the more it tries to stifle those parts of our nature.

00:42:43.040 But there is no way to do it.

00:42:45.640 And human beings are meant to create.

00:42:49.680 We're meant to expand and explore and we're meant to be free.

00:42:55.040 It's part of who we are supposed to be.

00:42:56.960 It's part of something that has consistently been part of our nature as far back as written

00:43:02.540 history shows.

00:43:03.780 And also, there's always been a small percentage of people that want to control, dominate and

00:43:09.300 suppress that in the rest of humanity.

00:43:11.340 And that's also something that we've always had to fight against.

00:43:14.620 So what we're facing right now isn't something that's brand new.

00:43:17.680 If you read Plato, if you read Nietzsche, if you read John Locke, if you read all of these

00:43:22.720 people from the past that were great thinkers and they would write down what they were witnessing

00:43:28.560 from an objective point of view, what we're facing now is nothing new.

00:43:33.180 It's the same thing that we've always been facing.

00:43:36.000 It's just that now we're actually at a point in history where we have the technology and we

00:43:40.980 have the understanding to where we actually can do something for it for the positive as

00:43:45.920 long as we don't continue believing that this oppressive – I mean, if you look at it,

00:43:54.060 society needs organization.

00:43:55.900 Society needs leadership.

00:43:57.160 But the path that we've taken this entire time is that organization and leadership should be

00:44:03.260 mandated and it should be at the barrel of a gun, that leaders should be able to justify

00:44:09.760 their followers' blind obedience by threats of violence.

00:44:15.700 And if we can just give up that one belief system, I think that we could have humanity

00:44:22.540 jump forward by leaps and bounds.

00:44:24.500 But it's something that not everybody's willing to give up yet.

00:44:28.360 But as time goes on, more and more people I'm seeing are willing to give that belief up.

00:44:34.380 That's right.

00:44:34.760 And Larkin Rose even said it.

00:44:35.860 He said the government is the anchor that's holding us down.

00:44:38.900 And when you look at how every time you turn around, it's a permit or it's a regulation

00:44:43.000 or in Sweden, for Christ's sake, to try and start a business you wouldn't believe or to

00:44:46.760 ship in a cat, you know.

00:44:48.340 It's like they just – and they also invent jobs out of nothing, out of pushing paper instead

00:44:53.100 of things that are actually tangible and will last and actually can help humankind progress.

00:44:57.780 You know what I mean?

00:44:59.140 Yeah.

00:44:59.520 Well, the way that I kind of look at it is government as a whole is basically like training

00:45:04.540 wheels for humanity.

00:45:05.680 And I think that human beings are at the point – as a whole, I think that we're at the

00:45:10.700 point where we can take the training wheels off and we can start riding the bike based

00:45:14.980 off of our own balance.

00:45:17.740 But the people that are the training wheels, they don't want to disassemble themselves.

00:45:25.400 They don't want to unattach themselves to society.

00:45:28.480 And it's at the point now where the training wheels are so rusted and they're so full of

00:45:34.120 gunk that they are.

00:45:35.300 They're slowing us down. 0.91

00:45:36.400 It's like an anchor now.

00:45:37.380 So instead of helping us, they're slowing us down.

00:45:41.140 And more and more people are starting to realize that, hey, we could be moving a lot

00:45:45.420 faster if we got rid of these training wheels.

00:45:48.080 We could be a lot freer if we got rid of these training wheels.

00:45:51.020 And we're fully capable of riding the bike with just our balance.

00:45:55.680 We don't need the training wheels anymore.

00:45:57.420 So there's still some – there's still a large percentage of the population out there

00:46:02.520 that is terrified to take the training wheels off and try and ride the bike on their own.

00:46:07.440 But every day, there's more and more people that are realizing, hey, it's absolutely detrimental.

00:46:12.780 It's absolutely necessary that we take these training wheels off.

00:46:16.700 That's right.

00:46:17.140 So what would you say to people that say, no way, everything would go to hell without government?

00:46:20.900 I would say that that's just fear.

00:46:28.500 In my opinion, that's just fear.

00:46:31.440 I have – 99% of my interactions with human beings are completely devoid of government.

00:46:38.780 When I go to – I mean I like to patronize like farmer's markets.

00:46:49.540 I like to spend my money at farmer's markets.

00:46:51.640 Yeah.

00:46:53.060 I don't have to have government interaction.

00:46:55.920 I have friends – a lot of my friends are into farming and gardening.

00:46:59.460 And so I trade my services for their services on a daily basis.

00:47:03.560 And we have no government interaction whatsoever.

00:47:06.520 Government does not need to exist.

00:47:08.560 Yes, it's good to have a system or a group of people that their main function in life is to protect people's rights.

00:47:19.540 But that's not what government is.

00:47:21.400 And people that think, well, if we had anarchy, nobody would be there to protect our rights.

00:47:27.240 But when you look at the people that we entrust with the duty of protecting our rights now, those are the biggest violators of our rights.

00:47:36.400 Yeah, exactly.

00:47:37.700 Yeah, so what we have now is we say, well, without government, people would rob from each other and people would bully each other around.

00:47:47.500 And then I say, well, what is government other than people robbing from each other and bullying each other around?

00:47:52.780 That's right.

00:47:53.460 Realistically, government is the very thing that we prop it up to protect us from.

00:48:00.420 So once you can understand that, then the fear of living without it almost dissipates. 0.98

00:48:07.100 The other thing is I think it's actually a small percentage of people that are psychopaths that just want to go lie, cheat and steal and rape. 0.96

00:48:13.980 You know what I mean? 0.97

00:48:14.560 And and I would say that the majority would take care of it like Old West style.

00:48:18.760 You know, you want to come here and behave like that?

00:48:21.020 Then they used to hang them in the streets and then everyone learned a lesson.

00:48:24.040 And I know I know it sounds harsh, but that's kind of I think what needs to be done.

00:48:29.320 I would agree.

00:48:30.840 And if you look at like the history of of what we know as the modern state, it's really only a small percentage of of the timeline that humanity has been around, that we've actually had this thing called government.

00:48:45.160 And there's there's still societies now that exist without a state as we commonly know it.

00:48:51.280 There's up until just recently, as far as, you know, the whole span of humanity up until just recently, there were a lot of societies that did very well without having a government.

00:49:01.680 And like I said, in my everyday life, almost every single action that I take on is devoid of government and my life isn't falling apart and people aren't dying all around me.

00:49:13.780 So the belief that society would just crumble without government, I think that's you watch you watch television and every time they show you anarchy, every time they show you a collapse of government, everybody goes crazy.

00:49:28.940 Everybody starts killing each other.

00:49:30.400 You watch shows like there's a real popular show over here called Sons of Anarchy and they promote anarchy is just, you know, drug dealers and murderers and all of this stuff going on.

00:49:42.900 But really, the only reason that there's so much violence in the drug dealing game is because of government prohibition.

00:49:50.180 And without that, all of these things that we look at as black market and gray market that we're completely terrified because of the violent stigmas that are attached to them without prohibition, all of the violence in those marketplaces would completely disappear.

00:50:04.900 So the idea that government protects us from violence, the idea that government protects us from craziness, if you really examine it, government is the reason that we have all of the violence.

00:50:16.000 It's the reason that we have all of the craziness.

00:50:18.280 That's right. And they're the biggest drug pushers and gun pushers of them all. 0.96

00:50:21.940 I always wonder, too, when all the drug deals, when they bust them, they spend all this crazy tax money doing it.

00:50:26.980 So they take all the money, all the drugs.

00:50:29.560 And what do they do with it?

00:50:31.260 They destroy it.

00:50:32.200 Yeah, right.

00:50:32.720 You know, well, a funny story and the statute of limitations is up on this.

00:50:38.940 I'm not really scared about admitting this on the radio, but I used to live in Olympia, which is the capital of the quote unquote state of Washington.

00:50:48.800 And when we were living up there, we were homeless and I fell in with a bad crowd and we were staying at a motel.

00:50:56.180 We kind of hopped from motel to campground to motel to campground.

00:50:59.580 And I got a friend who would hook me up with methamphetamines and something that we we used to sell out there, which were called wiki sticks.

00:51:07.940 But it's basically a PCP dip cigarette.

00:51:11.000 And I don't advocate drug use.

00:51:13.500 And I stopped selling drugs because I realized that it was destroying the community and it was counterproductive to the society that I wanted to live in.

00:51:21.480 And so I don't advocate selling or using most of those drugs now.

00:51:25.680 But in my past, I did sell them.

00:51:28.540 The point of this whole story is, though, the guy that I bought from his main dealer was a DEA agent.

00:51:35.300 And he would take when he would bust somebody with 15 pounds of something, he would take it and reduce the fine to five pounds and take the other 10 pounds and put it back out on the street.

00:51:47.240 So, yes, a lot of the people that we think are keeping our streets safe and keeping them clean from drugs are actually out there pushing the drugs just as feverishly as the gangster that you think is the threat to society.

00:52:01.300 So do you advocate courts and fair trials for criminals, innocent until proven guilty?

00:52:08.800 Not in the way that they are now.

00:52:12.380 I think that I think that it's necessary to have some sort of overseeing type of thing.

00:52:19.600 If you actually do violate somebody's rights, if you actually do harm somebody, it's good to have something in the community like an arbitrary or an arbitration system where they say, OK,

00:52:31.320 we're looking at both sides of this and you both agree that whatever we find is going to be upheld on both of your ends.

00:52:39.720 I believe in that.

00:52:41.800 But the problem is, is like I said earlier, what we expect to protect us from these things is the actual biggest threat.

00:52:48.700 So if we if we want to have a fair and balanced system that actually looks at what happened and makes a fair decision that that system itself cannot be compulsory, it can't be paid for by theft.

00:53:04.820 So if we want to have a system that protects us from theft, that system itself as a very basic tenant of keeping it legitimate needs to not be funded by theft.

00:53:16.400 So courthouses nowadays are paid for by money that they steal from people.

00:53:21.440 If I want to have somebody who's going to be non-biased and protect me from people who might steal from me, the person being the judge needs to also be bound by the same rule that he can't steal from me.

00:53:33.100 So where I think that, you know, human beings obviously are going to do each other wrong once in a while and it makes sense to have some sort of way to come to an agreement on how to deal with that.

00:53:46.700 But letting that system be ran off of coercion and mandates and theft, I don't think that we'll ever actually be able to have a system that protects people's rights if that system is based completely off of violating people's rights.

00:54:03.800 Yeah, that's right. And a funny note, you said that you get people who write you and say, but who will build the roads?

00:54:09.820 I mean, are people just so small minded, they think that humans are just totally weak and helpless, that we can band together locally and actually get shit done and much better and more efficiently?

00:54:22.960 Well, see, the thing is, is when you're caught in that mindset and you've been from birth to death, you've been taught that the only way to have roads is to have government. 0.59

00:54:33.920 And I guess Russia, like Soviet Russia, would be a good example of this. 0.97

00:54:38.940 A lot of people in Russia, before the fall of the Soviet Union, government gave them their bread.

00:54:45.580 They didn't have private bakers that would bake up bread and sell it.

00:54:49.220 Government would employ the people that made the bread and then distribute the bread.

00:54:53.780 And people in the Soviet Union, a lot of people said, well, if the Soviet Union falls, where will we get our bread?

00:55:00.160 So if you've been indoctrinated your whole life that there's only one way to get bread and you've never even contemplated the alternative that, hey, maybe because bread is such a valuable commodity, maybe people would pay for it without having money stolen from their paychecks.

00:55:17.200 And maybe other people would make it without having guns pointed at them.

00:55:22.740 It's the same thing with roads.

00:55:24.380 People find roads valuable.

00:55:26.980 Businesses absolutely need roads in order to get product from one place to another or in order to get the customer into the business.

00:55:35.160 It's vital that roads exist.

00:55:37.460 Roads are something that we absolutely need in the current form.

00:55:40.600 I mean, I think that it's very possible that we've got suppressed hovercraft type technology where roads would be an absolutely obsolete argument anyways.

00:55:51.160 But in the in the way it is right now, we need roads.

00:55:54.700 It's a necessity.

00:55:55.360 It's a valuable thing.

00:55:56.640 And if something is valuable, people are going to pay for it voluntarily.

00:56:00.700 And if people are going to pay for it voluntarily and it's a valuable product or service, other people are going to provide it.

00:56:06.760 That's just what happens.

00:56:07.980 That's how humanity works.

00:56:09.280 So to think without people pointing guns at us to force us to pay for it and without people pointing guns at other people in order to produce it, it wouldn't happen. 0.86

00:56:18.840 That's just a silly idea. 0.91

00:56:21.620 And every other part of the marketplace shows how silly that idea is. 0.87

00:56:26.420 But for some reason, if you've been brought up generation after generation thinking the only way to get that particular product or service is through government.

00:56:34.680 A lot of times you never even, you know, you never take the time to sit back and think, well, is there another way this could be provided?

00:56:42.500 Is there another way it could be paid for?

00:56:44.120 And if you never give yourself the time to think that and you're never that idea is never introduced to you at school, it's never introduced to you during the, you know, through the media or through any of your friends.

00:56:55.080 You just never even think about it and you just accept it as truth.

00:56:58.700 That's right.

00:56:59.700 And then people can say, but what about the destruction of the environment?

00:57:03.400 Isn't the state helping to slow that down?

00:57:05.140 And no, the government is actually giving these companies more power because they crush all the competitions with regulations, laws, taxation.

00:57:13.160 So actually the little guys actually can't make it because so these big corporations actually lobby for more government regulation.

00:57:20.940 A lot of people don't know that.

00:57:22.640 Well, and another thing is like if you look at the worldwide war on hemp, hemp could solve a majority of the of the environmental problems that we have.

00:57:35.040 It produces so much more paper than lumber does per square acre.

00:57:39.300 Uh, it, it, it's great for the air.

00:57:42.140 It's great for the soil.

00:57:43.800 Um, hemp seeds have such awesome health benefits to them.

00:57:48.360 All of these problems, you know, oil dependency, lumber dependency, cotton dependency, uh, dependency on plastic from, from Petro.

00:57:58.500 All of these problems could be solved overnight if they would just stop using the force of government to hold back hemp production.

00:58:06.140 That's right.

00:58:06.600 Well, Rick Simpson even has the, the hemp oil cancer cure.

00:58:10.440 Exactly.

00:58:11.080 And that, and the thing about that is, is people think government is there to keep us safe.

00:58:17.220 Government is there to keep us healthy.

00:58:19.280 Government is there to protect the environment.

00:58:21.400 Yet hemp is one thing that, and hemp was one of the things that first keyed me into how corrupt and how unnecessary government was because the power of government is being used to do the exact opposite.

00:58:34.100 It's being used to keep people from being healthy.

00:58:36.660 It's being used to keep the environment from being healthy.

00:58:39.620 That's right.

00:58:40.460 By keeping, by keeping hemp prohibited, they're destroying the environment.

00:58:44.860 They're destroying our health.

00:58:46.620 And if you think that without government, the, the environment would go to crap, I just have to bring up hemp because with government, it's the biggest reason for why we're not taking alternative steps to help the environment, to help our health.

00:59:02.000 Exactly.

00:59:02.680 But they allow all these pharmaceuticals, chemtrails, you know, Splenda, whatever else.

00:59:08.540 And then in Europe, they're banning actually some vitamins and herbs and healing remedies.

00:59:13.400 Can you believe that?

00:59:14.060 I mean, the audacity.

00:59:15.160 Wake up, people.

00:59:16.920 Well, and that's what it comes down to.

00:59:18.140 Like my whole philosophy is where, where do these people get the power to tell you what you can put into your body?

00:59:27.480 Where do these people get the power to tell you what you can grow, what you can consume, what you can sell?

00:59:32.480 And the fact of the matter is they don't get it from anywhere.

00:59:35.660 It's all arbitrary.

00:59:36.740 It's all lies.

00:59:38.320 Just like the people in the past who said, I get the power from God to tell you what you can and can't do, to tell you how, how long your hair has to be, to tell you whether you can wear pants or you have to wear a dress, to tell you how much money you have to give me.

00:59:53.320 All of these things are based off of lies.

00:59:55.420 And once people give up the belief in that authority, the authority disappears.

01:00:00.300 It's a complete, from top to bottom, 100%.

01:00:03.540 It's all illusion and it's all faith-based.

01:00:07.000 And once they lose the faith of the people, they lose the authority over the people.

01:00:12.060 That's right.

01:00:13.100 So what would you like to say to people who are taking part in the upcoming presidential election?

01:00:19.700 I don't vote.

01:00:22.240 And even if – the way that I see things is the elections are just a tool to keep that faith going.

01:00:31.300 And a lot of people that are like pro-Ron Paul or pro-Libertarian Party get very offended by me saying that because I feel that we're at a time now where a lot of people are starting to lose faith in it and they need to have people like Ron Paul out there to keep the faith going.

01:00:48.000 I've lost absolutely all faith in the political system, not because I don't think that what I want for society can be attained through the political system, but because I think it's illegitimate.

01:01:01.220 I don't believe – voting to me is saying this guy is going to be the slave master that I want and therefore I want him to be all of your slave master as well.

01:01:12.220 This guy is going to force us to do the things that I find correct and then he's going to force you to live your life the way I find correct as well.

01:01:22.320 And I think that's an appalling way to structure a society.

01:01:25.840 I think that the way that I live my life is good for me and I even make mistakes in my own life and I have to go back and say, OK, maybe I should stop doing that. 0.89

01:01:34.520 But what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander and to think that what I found that works for me should be violently forced on everybody around me is ridiculous.

01:01:44.420 And so I think it's an – it's immoral practice to vote because that's what you're doing.

01:01:49.360 You're saying this guy says what I like to hear.

01:01:52.200 This guy agrees with me and I know that he's going to use men with guns to force you to bend to my will.

01:01:57.880 So I'm going to put my weight behind him and I just can't take part in that whatsoever.

01:02:03.020 And if you are taking part in that, you, the listener, really think about what you're doing.

01:02:08.640 You're saying this is what's best for me and I'm going to use violence to force it on the rest of you.

01:02:15.520 Yeah, exactly.

01:02:18.560 And the other thing is it's like it's this illusion of choice that there's actually choices and that they're going to be different in some way.

01:02:26.640 But they all come from the same place.

01:02:28.400 There's the same people pulling the strings behind the scenes.

01:02:31.020 But that's just conspiracy, you know.

01:02:33.280 Never mind you.

01:02:34.560 Well, and they use a very basic fundamental flaw to pull that off.

01:02:40.580 The best way that I like to, I guess, give an analogy of it is you can take two people who are huge football fans and they are fans of opposing teams.

01:02:50.200 So you get like the Raiders versus the Denver Broncos.

01:02:53.900 You got the Oakland Raiders and the Denver Broncos and you get two fans sitting down on a couch and they're watching the game together.

01:03:00.900 One guy loves the Raiders and one guy loves the Broncos.

01:03:04.120 And the Broncos can have a foul and like say it's pass interference.

01:03:09.960 The Broncos, the Broncos commit a pass interference foul.

01:03:13.620 The Raiders fan will jump up and he'll be like, ref, what are you blind?

01:03:16.440 That was pass interference.

01:03:18.200 He should be kicked out of the game.

01:03:19.840 That's pass interference.

01:03:21.600 And then the next play, one of his guys can do the same thing.

01:03:25.720 One of the guys from the Raiders can jump in the way and pass interference.

01:03:29.180 And he'll say, oh, it was just pass interference.

01:03:32.260 So it's the bias.

01:03:34.220 And when you look at like Barack Obama as opposed to George Bush, Barack Obama has used the federal laws to incarcerate more marijuana users than George Bush did.

01:03:47.480 Barack Obama has used more debt.

01:03:50.540 He's added more debt than George Bush did.

01:03:53.000 He's started just as many wars.

01:03:55.260 He's continued all of the wars as George Bush did.

01:03:57.960 He's bailed out the banks just like George Bush did.

01:04:01.120 And you have all of the Democrats that were so anti-Bush, which I was very much anti-Bush as well.

01:04:07.620 But you have all these Democrats that were like, oh, George Bush is bringing us into unconstitutional wars.

01:04:13.700 And George Bush did the Patriot Act.

01:04:15.580 And George Bush bailed out the big giant corporate banks.

01:04:18.800 And George Bush hates potheads.

01:04:20.860 And then Barack Obama comes in and does the exact same thing. 0.98

01:04:24.000 And they're like, yeah, but Barack Obama is black or he's going to bring us change. 0.92

01:04:28.140 And it's like it's the Raiders Broncos thing.

01:04:31.400 It was terrible when George Bush did it.

01:04:34.000 But we'll turn a blind eye when Barack Obama does it.

01:04:36.820 And they take advantage of that.

01:04:38.160 They play us against each other so that they can constantly keep us in control or keep us under control.

01:04:43.440 And it's just like if you look at the prison system, the prison system relies heavily on keeping the gangs divided, keeping the races divided.

01:04:54.720 Because in the prison system, there's one guard for every 50 inmates and there's one warden for every 600 inmates.

01:05:03.360 And they're heavily outnumbered.

01:05:05.440 And the only way to stay in power is to keep the gangs and the races divided amongst each other so that they're too busy fighting with each other to ever realize that they're being held down by somebody above them.

01:05:17.420 And that's the way that politics works.

01:05:19.300 Let's keep everybody divided.

01:05:21.120 Let's create these divisionary lines.

01:05:23.480 Let's have one actor that speaks to one group and another actor that speaks to the other group.

01:05:28.040 We'll keep them constantly at each other's throats and then we'll stay on top. 0.97

01:05:33.860 The other thing that's annoying is it's become like American Idol for prez, yo.

01:05:39.040 You know, it's like Obama gave me a free phone.

01:05:42.960 You know, I'm going to vote for him.

01:05:45.200 I mean, really?

01:05:46.400 I mean, have we really sunk to that level?

01:05:50.440 I don't know if we've sunk to that level or if we've always just been at that level because that's what that's what government is.

01:05:57.360 It's pitting the people against each other and telling one half of the people, you know, like you divide them by class when it comes to politics.

01:06:05.620 You divide them by class.

01:06:07.000 You tell the poor people, hey, we're going to rob from the rich people if you vote for us.

01:06:11.180 And then you tell the rich people, hey, we're going to we're going to slow down how much the poor people are robbing for you from you if you vote for us.

01:06:18.280 So it's again, it's the divide and conquer.

01:06:21.240 And like I said, if you vote for me, I'm going to use violence to do this.

01:06:26.020 If you vote for me, I'm going to use violence to take this from them and give it to you.

01:06:30.600 You know, I'm going to use violence to take from the taxpayers and buy you a cell phone or whatever, you know, whatever it is.

01:06:37.340 I promise you to use violence to get you your way and to pay for the things that you want.

01:06:42.140 And then the other group says, well, I'm going to use violence to pay for the things that you want.

01:06:46.400 Vote for me.

01:06:47.060 Yeah, the commies are coming out of the woodwork in America. 0.95

01:06:50.500 You know, commies, leave me out of it. 1.00

01:06:52.720 Do what you want, but don't force me into your shit. 1.00

01:06:56.280 And by the way, your people killed my family in Russia. 1.00

01:07:00.980 So I don't know why anyone could look at the Communist Party and say, yeah, that's a good way to go.

01:07:05.340 Well, I think that like I'm I'm very open to listening to other people's points of view.

01:07:15.360 I think that it's a very narrow minded way to live your life by saying I've figured everything out and I don't need to listen to anybody else's point of view.

01:07:22.400 So I listen to a lot of people that are communists.

01:07:26.560 I'm friends with people that hold on to very leftist communist ideals.

01:07:30.640 And the problem is, is, is they a lot of them do want what's good for people.

01:07:37.880 They want poor people to be taken care of.

01:07:39.800 They want, you know, they want equality.

01:07:43.060 And those are those are things that should be strived for.

01:07:46.280 But they think that the way to get what's good is to use this evil system called government.

01:07:51.640 They think that the way to get equality is rather than lifting people up, it's cutting the tall ones down.

01:07:58.760 And equality is a dangerous word, because at the end of the day, we're not equal.

01:08:04.000 We're all different.

01:08:05.220 We have different talents, different abilities.

01:08:07.080 Some want to work and make money and that's OK.

01:08:09.220 Others want to be lazy. 0.99

01:08:10.860 So then what happens, like you come to Sweden where they've preached equality and everything is middle of the road, ugly looking, mediocre, small minded. 0.99

01:08:22.100 That's what happens, unfortunately. 0.97

01:08:24.720 Yeah.

01:08:24.900 And you made up you made a great point.

01:08:26.880 A lot of like socialists or communists, when it comes to the economy or when it comes to labor rights or workers' rights, they have this illusion that everybody can be equal in the workplace.

01:08:39.560 And that's just not that's not a reality.

01:08:42.480 My roommate and I are very different people when it comes to work.

01:08:46.300 I can take on a lot of responsibility.

01:08:48.720 I can take on a lot of leadership type of stuff in my position at work.

01:08:54.600 I take on a lot of responsibility.

01:08:57.560 I'm responsible for other people's actions.

01:08:59.980 My roommate, he just got promoted at his job and he's absolutely miserable with it.

01:09:04.060 And I thrive in that type of environment.

01:09:06.360 So when more is loaded on my plate, I thrive on that.

01:09:09.700 When more is loaded on my roommate's plate, he doesn't enjoy it at all.

01:09:13.740 He would rather just be told, here, this is what, you know, this is what needs to get done today.

01:09:17.700 Go out and do it.

01:09:18.540 Where I'm the type of person that looks at everything and I say, OK, this needs to get done.

01:09:22.300 This needs to get done.

01:09:23.020 This needs to get done.

01:09:24.140 How are we going to accomplish it?

01:09:25.620 So me, what works for me will not work for other people.

01:09:30.360 And I understand that.

01:09:32.400 So I would not push what works for me on other people.

01:09:35.880 But a lot of people think that we should all be equal, that we should all have the same responsibility and we should all have the same reward.

01:09:42.460 And those people, I think, have not walked both sides of the road or have not had very much experience in leadership that they understand that not everybody's cut out to be a leader and not everybody's cut out to be a follower.

01:09:57.700 And I like I said earlier, I don't have a problem with leadership.

01:10:00.440 I don't have a problem with people saying, hey, this is the way that we should go.

01:10:04.800 As long as they don't say, hey, I'm pointing guns at all of you.

01:10:09.380 So you have to go the way that I think we should go.

01:10:11.580 Exactly.

01:10:12.200 It's a collective nightmare.

01:10:14.120 That's what's happening.

01:10:15.880 And it's just it's soul crushing.

01:10:18.020 It derails you from your true destiny or your true source connection and makes government the god.

01:10:25.300 Yeah.

01:10:25.580 And and it does that on a worldwide basis.

01:10:30.080 And I'm not one of those people that is super conspiratorial when it comes to like the New World Order.

01:10:37.700 I do believe that there are people trying to bring about world government.

01:10:40.600 I don't think that there is intelligent or as as I don't think that they have like superpowers or they have psychic abilities or anything like that.

01:10:52.180 I don't know.

01:10:52.700 I might be wrong.

01:10:53.340 But I think that it's just part of of one of the flaws in humanity that some people want to control other people and a lot of other people can be easily fooled into thinking that they should be controlled.

01:11:04.980 But I do hold out hope for humanity in the long run because like you just said this whole collective this whole let government dictate every aspect of your life.

01:11:18.120 It does go against and it does drain the very nature of humanity.

01:11:23.700 And there's a lot of people waking up to it.

01:11:25.580 And the bigger it gets and the more oppressive it gets, the more people wake up to it and the more people are standing up against it.

01:11:31.380 So that's right.

01:11:32.300 They they might have their world government.

01:11:34.540 They might have their totalitarian socialist state.

01:11:37.080 But inevitably it will fall because it's just so contradictory to what human nature is that it cannot stand and it cannot last forever.

01:11:46.380 That's right.

01:11:47.140 As we begin to wrap up, I just wanted to tell you a little story.

01:11:50.060 Speaking of fairness, especially for all you people in America who are like, yes, the Nordic model, that's the way to go.

01:11:56.860 Come live here.

01:11:57.820 Come have a business here.

01:11:59.420 Come try and integrate into society.

01:12:01.140 And then write me and tell me if you feel the same because everyone else who comes up here changes their minds.

01:12:07.200 And so here's the story.

01:12:08.220 There was a lunch lady at this Swedish school and she decided that she wanted to step it up and make better food, you know, better bread. 0.98

01:12:15.600 She was making from scratch better sauces, you know, just better quality food.

01:12:20.060 And other schools complained or some some people within the schools complained because it wasn't fair.

01:12:26.340 It wasn't fair because the other kids in the other schools couldn't have it.

01:12:31.140 Yeah, so there you go.

01:12:34.560 That's that's the mentality that traps people.

01:12:37.420 But the mentality that frees people is to say, hey, that lady's got something better. 1.00

01:12:42.560 Let's step up our game instead of holding her down. 0.91

01:12:45.300 Let's raise the bar. 0.54

01:12:46.620 Let's raise the bar, not lower the bar. 0.99

01:12:48.760 And that's what's happening right now.

01:12:50.800 Yeah, exactly.

01:12:52.140 Nathan, please give us your website and any other details you'd like to give us.

01:12:56.240 All right.

01:12:56.680 My website is livefreefm.com.

01:12:59.780 That's L-I-V-E-F-R-E-E-F-M dot com. 1.00

01:13:03.820 And I do a weekly radio show where I sometimes I approach things from a legal point of view.

01:13:10.480 Sometimes I expand on how to use the philosophy of anarchy to get your cases thrown out of court.

01:13:18.760 And a lot of times I just approach current events from a philosophical and voluntarist anarchist type of point of view.

01:13:28.820 So if you're interested in philosophy or if you're interested in the law or if you're just interested in a solution based look at the problems that are going on, check out my show.

01:13:40.800 Check out my website.

01:13:41.880 Everything there is available for free.

01:13:43.660 I have a book written on the many court cases that I've taken on and how I've gotten a lot of court cases thrown out.

01:13:50.740 It's available there as well for free download.

01:13:53.600 So I try to make everything available for free.

01:13:55.600 And like I said, this is like my main life goal right now is to spread the philosophy of freedom, spread the understanding of why we need freedom and to offer solutions rather than just the chicken little gloom and doom type of stuff that a majority of the people in alternative media seem to have an extreme fascination with.

01:14:19.820 So I maybe don't have the best audience or the largest audience, but the audience that I do have are accomplishing a lot more than the fear based audience that seems to be growing by leaps and bounds.

01:14:33.180 Yeah, well, you're doing a good job.

01:14:34.880 The site looks great and you have music up there, too.

01:14:37.780 Oh, I do have music and I try to make all the music available for downloads for free, too.

01:14:42.500 So if you want to listen to some anti-authoritarian hip hop music, I have a lot of that there available for free as well.

01:14:50.260 All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on today.

01:14:53.160 Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

01:14:55.280 And thanks to everyone for listening.

01:14:56.880 And like Nathan's website reads, if you want to be free, you got to live free.

01:15:00.800 See you later.

01:15:12.500 See you later.

01:15:43.260 They need the people for their own means to fill the arenas, to run the machines. 0.74

01:15:48.840 Don't need the rejects, no one's satisfied. 0.96

01:15:51.320 Shut all the innocent, we will survive.

01:15:53.640 Shut all the innocent, we will survive.

01:16:05.940 This is not, not my government.

01:16:08.740 This is not, not my government.

01:16:11.000 This is not, not my government.

01:16:13.760 This is not, not my government, no.

01:16:17.240 It's not my government, no.

01:16:19.200 No.

01:16:19.500 This is not my government.

01:16:20.280 This is not, not my government.

01:16:21.260 This is not my government.

01:16:21.300 This is not my government.

01:16:22.340 This is not, not my government.

01:16:23.540 This is not my government.

01:16:24.320 Thank you.

Radio 3Fourteen - October 17, 2012

Anarchism _ Sovereignty

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