Askr Svarte - The Rise of Pagan Traditionalism in Modern Times
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Summary
Asker Svart is a notable Russian pagan intellectual who has written a two-volume book called Polmos, The Dawn of Pagan Traditionalism. It was originally published in Russian but now published in English, it leaves no stone unturned in relation to the true essence of European paganism and how it relates to us in the modern world today.
Transcript
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Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Lana. My guest, Asker Svart, is a notable Russian pagan
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intellectual who has written a two-volume book that you must read. It's called Polmos,
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The Dawn of Pagan Traditionalism. It was originally published in Russian,
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but you can read it in English. It leaves no stone unturned in relation to the true essence of
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European paganism and how it relates to us in the modern world today. And there's a reason why
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there's a great resurgence of pagan traditionalism in the modern era. So welcome, Asker.
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Welcome, everyone, and thank you for your invitation for me.
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Yeah, thank you for your work. Much was actually unfamiliar to me. I mean, I'm a Slav. I have
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Russian ancestors. And so you highlighted a lot of different authors and thinkers, several I heard
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of, but there was a lot that I hadn't heard of, which gives us a lot of goodies to dig into. So
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it's been a while since I enjoyed a book this much. So thank you. I appreciate that. Even if some things
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were lost in translation, we're still getting the essence of it. And I noticed, too, I just want to
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give a shout out to those in your book as well, because at the very core of your work lies a
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spirit of Italian thinker Julius Evola, right, who established traditionalism. I'm a big fan of
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myself. Oswald Spanger, Nietzsche, Martin Heidegger. Also, you stand on the shoulders of
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Alain de Benoit on his book on being a pagan. He's still alive, so I still need to get him on the show.
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But you are of German roots, right, in Siberia. So tell us, tell us that story.
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In Siberia, a lot of Germans, but all of them were from so-called Volga Deutsche and Bissarabian
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Deutsche or Ukrainian Deutsche who lived on other bank of river Nester. It's near,
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modern Odessa. Anyway, it's an umbrella term of Bissarabian Deutsche. And my ancestors were
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excited from this land before and during the Second World War, because they were Germans and
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Soviet Union was in war with Third Reich. So a lot of people were moved into Siberia, into the North
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Kazakhstan, Altai Mountains, the region of Republic of Altai in modern Russia. So that's how my direct, my
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ancestors came to this land, and it's because I'm from Siberia.
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Wow, what a journey in Siberia. I mean, that's not an easy place to live, I can imagine. I mean,
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it's cold and it's rough, so it makes, I'm sure you're probably a tough person. There's a lot of tough
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people up there, right? I hope so. It was very hard-boiled people to live in Russia and in Siberia too.
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Yeah. And they were persecuted, killed in Stalin's repression period in 1930s. For example,
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my grandfather was killed by NKVD. And it's a regular story among national minorities. Germans were
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national minorities in the Soviet Union. Yeah. Hey, I thought white people couldn't be
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minorities. I'm just joking. Well, the one plus too about Siberia is there's probably no transsexuals
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up there. So at least you're free from that. But we're going to discuss the foundations of
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pagan traditionalism. You've written a huge book on this. It's important to understand also, I think,
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the nuances of paganism and this postmodern era and kind of like an updated version to fit the things
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that we're going through. But I just want to know how you went, just briefly tell us how you went from
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the Orthodox faith to becoming a pagan, because everyone kind of has their journey of how they
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rediscovered the old native folk ways, right? I think my story isn't unique. I think it's a regular story.
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When you become a youth person, you're interested about fundamental questions about
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how everything became exist, for example, meaning of life, the source or origin of being of all entities
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and so on. And you find questions in science, in some spiritual esoterical teachings. I'm glad I find a
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good, not new age and more traditional, traditionalistic authors, and they really inspired me
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in the young age. So my spiritual journey is very short and very simple. I never was an Orthodox Christian.
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I became pagan by one step. About six months, I was a Slavic pagan, but found my German roots. I learned
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about the Germans, and I became an Odinist, follow the God Odin and German tradition in general.
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That's right, the Germanic Scandinavian path. That absolutely makes sense. Yeah. I think a good place
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to begin is to define paganism. Later, we're going to get into what it's not. That is something I've been
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talking about a lot lately, because the word pagan is misused, you know, also by liberals and also
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by Christians. So it's really irritating. But on, let's see, page 25 of your book, I just wanted to
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read. You had this nice little passage here. Paganism is a song, a beautiful song of eternal
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wisdom and unity, a forgotten but not lost song. Today, in the era of modernity and the dark age,
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one can ever more often hear the tune and melody of this ancient song, a tune which, although faint,
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nuanced, and fragmentary in its memory, is certain in its deep element. If you are reading these lines,
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and you have likely in one way or another been touched by this melody. I thought that that was
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beautiful. So maybe you can get into a little bit about your definition of paganism. I know it's
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huge. And we're going to get into some of the big points of what it is.
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Yes, of course. And we face first troubles starting the term. And I want to draw attention to
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our new article we prepared with J.F. Arnold, the editor-in-chief of PRAF Publishing House,
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about this term, the pagandom. We defined this term and offered to use this term, not paganism, but pagandom.
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Because the language is a very important matter. And in Russia, we have a unique term to
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name paganism. The term sounds yizuchistva. And in this term, we hear at the same time, it's three meanings.
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Language, mother tongue, folk, or people, or ethnos, and religion, or tradition. All of three of them,
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in Russian language, arise from one root, yizik. Yizik is the same time, ethnos, language, and yizuchistva,
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like pagandom. So it's impossible to translate into German language, into English language,
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L language, this constellation of meanings. And pagandom, for me, is the language in which the
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sacred finds and manifests itself in the world, in every potential morbidity and on earth is a wide
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range of peoples who live there. And we may define paganism in more Heideggerian way. Paganism is the
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way design settles itself into the world. It's how being represented manifest its richness in many or
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infinity ways and people traditions. Any tradition is a whole universe. And
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we have a lot of pagan traditions, so we have a lot of hermetic universes.
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So pagandom, it's an umbrella term of paganism, unite all of them in the deepest origin,
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or deepest state of dominate of paganism. Paganism is the most ancient and the most authentic way
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to represent sacred and unique way of any or every
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That's right. And it must also not be forgotten, and you had said this too, that the philosophers in
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Greece and Rome, almost without exception, were all pagans, right? And that both Christian and
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Islamic theology is really drawn on the spiritual traditions of ancient paganism. People just tend
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to think that this is just something new, or it's just either something new or just some little relic
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of the past. But actually, paganism has been at the foundation of a lot of the greatest
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civilizations on the planet. You know, people also forget too that Buddhists and Hindus are pagans,
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right? The non-European versions, we had Egypt, the Greco-Roman civilization, Norse, I mean,
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Asian, like, it's massive, right? They weren't just backwoods hillbillies who were uneducated,
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uncivilized, and didn't have any, you know, their own mythology and customs and traditions and morals.
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People tend to think that pagans are just a bunch of degenerates, right? Until the Abrahamic faiths
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showed up and showed them the way. But that is, of course, the complete opposite. That is not true.
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You say, paganism is not a relic of the past. Paganism is very much alive and wields a critical
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analysis of the past, present, and future with the potential to return to the forefront of
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consciousness. And this we are going to explore because people also don't realize how much paganism
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is a part of our everyday life and the traditions that we celebrate, some of the holidays,
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some of the ways that we think, right? Now, how is paganism currently perceived wrongfully?
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I want to read one passage in your book here. It says, paganism is often misrepresented by outsiders
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variously as a fad of the counterculture associated with hippies and black metal or the like, or an
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offshoot of Satanism. I hear this all the time. It's not even that. Or mixed with these New Age ideas
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that are fabricated in part by writings of so-called pagans of the New Age variety. Now,
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I know Julius Evola was also critical of a lot of the neo-paganist movement like you and like the
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these basically liberals that are coming in and hijacking it and New Agers and all this. So
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what do you have to say about that? Yes, it is a common problem in Russia, in Europe, in
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America, North or South. It's a misunderstanding and misrepresented. For example, New Agers, hippie,
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left liberals, left liberals, soft theology, groups of eco-sexuals, for example, they are very loud. And
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if you are loud, it's easy to draw attention by media and became famous and popular. But it is a fake way.
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It's a fake way to establish the fake representation of ancient tradition living in the modern era. So
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the same in this problem continues in religion studies, in political field, on fields of political,
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and of course, the role of Christian propaganda fighting with
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Orthodox Church, for example, in Russia fighting with pagans. It is also a part of or aspects of
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one problem of misrepresenting and misunderstanding of what paganism is. Paganism is not materialism,
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hedonism, consumerism. This is the most known misunderstanding about what paganism is.
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It's a big deal and big business for pagan movements in Europe, and not only in Europe, in ethnic regions, in Russia, in Asia, in South Asia, for example, in South America, about
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how they can represent themselves in society, in modern society, in politics, in an adequate way, to not be associated with
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left-liberals or extremely far-right groups or left-comunic groups,
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any kind of misrepresenting ideology, for example, because many of them use some pagans,
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non-government organizations, and so on, to achieve their political goals, for example,
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follow goals need to be reached by pagans themselves.
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pagan organizations that you hear about, maybe, like, a lot of people think, oh, it's Wiccan, right?
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Wicca has nothing to do with it. You get into that in your book. And also, like, a lot of the neo-pagan
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organizations. I don't know if it's like this in Russia, but it's focused on, like,
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progressivism and tolerance and diversity and feminism and the liberal world order. And then
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when you have groups that aren't, like you have the AFA and Odinists in America, all different kind,
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all types, we're attacked as being, you know, white supremacists, you know, because European people
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can't have anything that is their own, especially in America. I think it's anywhere now. It's getting
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attacked, right? You don't have any folk faiths and you're not indigenous anywhere. And it's all
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racist and white supremacist and colonialists. And of course, that's a lie. It has nothing to do
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with liberals, liberals and what elites do today also, because I've been hearing a lot of people
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say what these globalist elites are doing, that they're just pagans. Now, they're not pagans. Like,
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people bring up Bohemian Grove, you know, with their LARPy little, you know, rituals that they do,
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burning care or whatever, and Moloch, which is, you know, in the Bible and everything.
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But these people are not, you know, praising Odin and Thor and channeling Slavic gods and
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Roman gods and teaching us about pagan traditionalism. They're like, they're against
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folk. They're against blood and soil. You know, they're the opposite of that. I mean, Thor's hammer
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is on the ADL's hate symbol list. The coal of rot, an ancient symbol.
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It's crazy. So I would say that these elites are trying to form this kind of,
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a lot of them are atheists, but they're kind of doing this new age kind of
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bullshit religion that isn't really anything real. What do you have to say to that response
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that when people say elites are pagans? I think it's like, it is a part of
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right-wing conservative conspirology inspired by Christian ideology and Christian propaganda,
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because it is a part of, in America, it's Protestant conspirology. In Russia, it's
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a Christian orthodox conspirology, but they're really the same. And it originated from this side.
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They think, of course, if global elites are evil and purely satanic worshippers, so they're also a
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pagan, a masonic, and illuminati, and so on, so on. And maybe they're all, of course, they're lizards.
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It's the same bullshit. We know everything about it. It is a part of conspirology and propaganda,
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or orthodox, or anyway, Christian, in general, ideology and agenda. So it's just a fake,
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because for Christians, pagans mean satanic. It's an unbrokeable chain of equal naming.
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So it's impossible to explain them, because, okay, elites, they perform really strange
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rites or meetings near the giant oval made from concrete. But, okay, they may be really satanic,
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but they're not pagans at all. Because if they are pagans, so why they persecute,
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adequate real pagans all around the world, and show the green light and open roads to the really
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fakes and crazy postmodern New Age groups, it's impossible to explain them. And it's possible
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to understand only inside the conspirology type of thinking. So for me, it's not a
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problem, because it's important, impossible to explain, so there is no place to dialogue.
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Yeah, yeah. And what I find is the ADLs and these elites, they're constantly terrified of this
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resurgence of Indo-European paganism. Why? Because it's rooting us into an old traditionalism
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that keeps us grounded and focused and aware of a lot of the crap that's going on, the lies that are
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pushed on us. It doesn't work on us, right? Because we're rooted in something deep and old,
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and we have our own belief system. We're like armed with this truth where they're trying to push this
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fake version of reality, right? And transhumanism and all this trans stuff and all this liberal stuff
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that isn't really real, right? And we're going to get into that. But I want to,
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if you could summarize at the core of Indo-European paganism, what is at the core? Like,
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a lot of Christians would say the main focus is to follow Jesus, right? It's real simple,
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like we follow Jesus. What would a pagan say? Now, I know you have 800 pages of information on this, but
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if someone was brand new coming to this, what would you say is at the essence?
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The core of paganism, and I think it's not only Indo-European, you can find the same
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statement in non-Indo-European traditions. It's full of your destiny, it's full of your
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karma, it's full of you do. You must realize your karma in your life in the midgard of the middle,
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world, the reality of the phenomenological reality in this life. And if you don't realize your destiny,
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your fate, uh, by your, uh, by your will, so this fate will, uh, will lead you anyway.
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You can deny it, you can say, I don't believe in fate, but fate, uh, will lead you anyway. And you will
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face, uh, every milestone of your fate, of your fate, of your destiny. And, uh, it's, uh, unavoidable,
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uh, unavoidable, uh, structure of, uh, Indo-European and not only in the European traditions.
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Uh, and this destiny is, uh, uh, given by, uh, deities, by, for example, uh, in the north traditions,
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three norms, and it's, uh, predeterminated by your soul, uh, in Asia, in India, it's called, uh,
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karma, the law of harm, uh, of cycle of rebirth, and so on. Uh, in
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European traditions, different, a little bit of different structure, for example, platonical
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teaching about metals of the soul, the golden soul, the silver soul, and bronze soul. So there's
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different, uh, types of, uh, possible destinies, a variation of possible destinies for men, uh, living
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in the world. And not to follow Jesus or, uh, any other hero, but to follow your inner, uh,
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divine destiny, or destiny, uh, given to you by your lead deity. Deity in the center of your cult,
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of cult of the people, or cult of the, uh, uh, separated state, uh, or, uh, pers, given by personal
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guru, for example, and so on in different cultures, uh, organic, uh, it's, uh, in different culture,
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performative by different, uh, uh, uh, structures and, uh, in many forms. But the main core is follow
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your heart and, uh, perform the fidelis, the semper fidelis, uh, to deities.
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Yeah, to me, I think it's the most authentic thing there is. You know, people always talk about,
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oh, I want to live an authentic life and all this, and your soul, all these, uh, fake versions and stuff.
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But the pagan traditionalism is rooted in something much older and our ancestral ways and, uh, in touch
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with the, the seasons and events that have happened in the past and, uh, mythologies that
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have arosen probably over thousands of years to form some of these archetypal things. So it's,
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it's in our DNA. It's in our, it's in our entire makeup, you know, all those that have gone before us
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are in us. You say pagan traditionalism is potentially fertile soil for all those pagan traditions and all the
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different corners of the world which are struggling for their, and this is important, identity,
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purity, and their very existence and being. So it's, uh, seeking the most authentic life,
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right? And, and trying to be the best that you can be. I was thinking about that. Some of the big
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points for me, um, you know, hero, becoming the hero, the hero's journey and being brave, uh,
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fighting for your soil and land. Uh, they support hierarchy and natural law and nature is divine,
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right? You're there. You're not separate from it. Like you're, you're a part of it and it is all
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divine. Uh, you're concerned about folk and tribe and, and family first and striving to be kind of
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like, uh, Nietzsche had talked about, right? The superhuman. Isn't that kind of like the path of the
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Viking? Now I know I was just reading Calergi's book, right? Kudenhof Calergi. And he was complaining
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about, uh, pagans because of their, their drive to be the superhuman and this bravery and how they don't
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comply, comply and how he actually favored Christianity because it was more, uh, conducive
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to internationalism and race mixing and, uh, well, basically control, you know? So to me, uh,
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pagan also represents the unruly rebellion against this current world order that has just completely
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gone nuts, you know? Any points you want to add to that? Any, some of the, the big points?
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Not to add to that, but, um, pagandom, it's directly and straight against any kind of globalism
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because, uh, for any, um, pagan culture, any pagan tradition, uh, on banks of the river, Amazon
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or banks of the river, uh, in the middle of Eurasian continent, uh, not only blood, but soil,
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uh, landscape, uh, around you is also, uh, affects a part of your metaphysics. Uh, the landscape around
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you is, uh, represented, uh, as one of way, which God, uh, divine represents itself. So, uh, it's a strongly
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against, uh, universalism of, uh, global mega cities of, uh, virtual reality, uh, urbanism and, uh,
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uh, and Christianity, uh, too, because, uh, Christianity is the first, uh, its first release
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of globalism. It's the first, uh, really global, uh, culture, uh, paradigm of thinking, and so on.
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And the modern globalism and this global elites we talked earlier about, uh, they also are sons,
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they also, uh, uh, sons and daughters of, uh, Christendom. Christendom is the father of modern
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globalism. So paganism stand against both of them because there is a small difference, uh, between
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them. And that's, uh, what I want, uh, to add. And, uh, in polymers, I also discuss and describe how
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it's possible, how, how it will be done. That's right. Your people and your land,
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those are the most important things to a pagan, right? And, and it's, that's the thing.
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Your people, your land, landscape. Your people and your land.
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Yeah. And, uh, people and landscape, it's all, uh, it's a manifest of deity.
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Exactly. So it is, it is the opposition to globalism, right? And that's why, that's why they hate it.
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It's a healthy regionalism. It's healthy localism.
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Yeah, exactly. Thinking locally. We're not talking about colonialism and all this stuff. I mean,
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yeah, there's been past histories of that and stuff, but like today it's a different,
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different ball game, you know, but yeah, thinking locally, thinking about your people,
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thinking about your tribe. And I feel that these things are very important with where the world is
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moving and going into, you know, crazy land and all this, uh, control system and eventually eating
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the bugs and transhumanism and virtual reality. You get into all of this in your book. So the
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solution to that is to have your, you know, your small villages, your local tribes, uh, your land,
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like helping each other, almost go going back into that time, but we can have it within an updated
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version. You know what I mean? People think that you have to live like a Luddite, uh, jumping around
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in a costume or something like that's what they think of pagans are like every night around the fire and
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stuff like that. But what do you think about needing an updated version of paganism to fit
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the current era? Because we're dealing with a lot of different problems right now, right? We're
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dealing with modernity, Western liberalism, multiculturalism, immigration, uh, LGBTQ,
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the transsexuals, all this. So how do you think we should view the geopolitical conflict from a
00:30:46.440
pagan perspective in our, in our modern era? Uh, of course, uh, uh, we cannot behave ourselves,
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uh, like, uh, nothing, uh, happened the last, uh, couple, last 2000 years. Uh,
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many things radically changed and, uh, more of them, uh, really passed away and die forever. Uh,
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so the modern pagans who won't live, uh, like in past and, uh, uh, wear some dress, uh, funny dress and,
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saying, hey, nothing, uh, changed. Uh, uh, we are the same pagans, uh, us, uh, uh, our ancient ancestors.
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It's a fake, this is a lie. And if we ask them about something about, uh, uh, typical and easy question
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about what, uh, for example, uh, stars on the night, uh, uh, in the night skies, what it is, uh, this is
00:31:49.560
they answer, oh, it's, uh, uh, uh, plus moids, uh, it's, uh, uh, uh, sky, uh, bodies, uh, in the far,
00:31:59.000
far outer space and so on. So paganism broke. It's, it's not a paganism, it's a scientific, uh, uh,
00:32:07.160
world weave. So for pagan stars, uh, uh, in the night skies, for example, eyes of the ancestors
00:32:15.240
or holes in the, uh, audience kit, uh, many metaphors, uh, and we face a problem about, uh,
00:32:25.560
this paganism. So paganism should be updated, but updated, uh, doesn't mean modernization.
00:32:32.840
No. Uh, and, uh, uh, complying with, uh, modernity, with, uh, modern paradigm of, uh,
00:32:39.560
thinking of education and epistemic, uh, science and philosophy. No, it must be updated in Europe,
00:32:48.040
in Russia, in Asia, in both, uh, uh, parts of America, everywhere, uh, updated to the understanding
00:32:58.600
and deeply, uh, completely understanding and complex understanding about, uh, what
00:33:06.200
modernity is and post modernities and how it stands against any kind of sacrality, uh, and ergo,
00:33:13.960
any kind of paganism, of paganism and pagandom in general. Uh, it is a problem of education
00:33:22.840
and explanation for pagans, uh, for, for any kind, I think, of pagans, uh, this, uh, intellectual
00:33:33.640
and paradigmatic situation about in, in, uh, in what world we live now and how we can, uh, reach,
00:33:44.440
establish again, uh, our connection to deities, to divine nature inside, in outer world and inside,
00:33:52.120
uh, uh, inside, uh, ourself, uh, in our heart and post modernity, virtuality, uh, freaks, uh, perversions,
00:34:06.760
uh, uh, you know, uh, it's also a huge part of, uh, problem I describe in many pages, uh, roots of them
00:34:15.720
and how they intersect with, uh, uh, uh, some spirituality and became a part of modern traditionalism,
00:34:23.240
why pagans, uh, uh, turned to the, uh, for example, LGBT and Q and, uh, uh, any, any letters after, uh,
00:34:35.640
uh, movements and, uh, defend this position and why it's a fake paganism and, uh, not only
00:34:46.360
sexual perversions, political, uh, ideology, um, ideological, uh, scientifical and, um,
00:34:54.680
in this way, I, I, I'm sure, uh, pagan traditionalism and we may say traditional traditionalism at all,
00:35:05.160
uh, may, uh, may be a common ground, uh, it's a language to describe the modern world, uh, from
00:35:15.320
the point of view of sacrality and define the modern post-modern world as anti- and counter-socrality
00:35:25.240
forces and following our heroical karma we must fight them in many, uh, aspects in every battlefield
00:35:38.200
of fighting, uh, thinking, art, you know, science, uh, poetry.
00:35:46.120
Yeah, it's like you've said, it's, uh, their war is against us in our, in our minds, right? In our
00:35:52.440
state of being. And to me, the modern-day pagan, it's a way of thinking and, and being, right? That
00:35:58.440
represents something old and grounded and timeless that is, uh, closest to how our ancestors, the
00:36:04.600
the builders of civilization, how our ancestors viewed the world and envisioned the world. And,
00:36:10.360
um, just standing, I think today being a pagan and, and thinking that all the conflicts today
00:36:17.160
and global homo and all that, just challenging it and, and being the resistance and saying no
00:36:22.120
and laughing at it and just honoring your, uh, your folk and your family and your land and basically
00:36:28.520
being like how we are today is, is, is how you, being the resistance is what I think. What do you think?
00:36:36.280
To be pagan today is, uh, to resist the whole reality. For, for me, for example, it's a, uh,
00:36:44.600
absolutely, uh, clear knowledge and statement. Uh,
00:36:49.880
uh, take a look in any part of social life in the, and you, uh, find both at the same time,
00:37:00.440
the relics of ancient, uh, forms of thinking or, uh, outer forms, uh, uh, with, uh, already, uh, that sense,
00:37:13.240
but, uh, forms still, uh, exist. And you find, uh, uh, modern and postmodern infiltration and you
00:37:21.400
must separate them. Paganism is a, uh, art of differentiation, for example, uh, and separating
00:37:29.400
the modern from traditional or traditionalistic and, uh, preserve and, uh, growing up.
00:37:38.040
You had on page 155, it was a chapter, Paganism, Modernity, and Postmodernity. I wanted to just
00:37:44.360
read a paragraph because it was very good. By taking the side of the eternal beyond time,
00:37:48.760
the side of the divine element, and by affirming the heroic type in the era of modernity,
00:37:53.960
no choice remains but to declare and wage war in difficult and confusing circumstances in which
00:37:59.080
the enemy is strong, cunning, ignoble, and at first glance, everywhere and nowhere. But we shall
00:38:05.240
remember that the gods always defeat the titans and the heroes will gain glory and find immortality.
00:38:10.600
Thus, it is necessary to boldly oppose law modernity with high antiquity and to fulfill
00:38:16.280
the do. Now, you were talking about the do quite a bit, uh, in the book. Now, maybe,
00:38:21.160
I know some things are lost in translation when I read, but it sounds beautiful. So, uh,
00:38:25.400
fulfill the do, and you mentioned the do quite a bit, D-U-E. Now, tell us what that, tell us what that is.
00:38:31.160
D-U-E is a destiny prepared and given you by deity and according to your structure of your soul,
00:38:49.880
of your relating to the one of the classical in the European states, for example, described by
00:38:55.800
uh, uh, French, uh, structuralist thinker Dumuzin. So, if you are peasant, uh, your karma, your destiny,
00:39:07.000
uh, your due is to be peasant, to farm the land. And if you are a warrior, you must fight, you must
00:39:15.240
be inside the heart of battle, uh, to lead your people, uh, became a king, uh, to find your
00:39:23.960
immortal glory of, uh, the highest one, the Havamal, uh, verses. And if you are so-called, uh,
00:39:35.240
brahman, or priest, philosopher, uh, your due is to serve to the deities, to provide the deities,
00:39:46.680
energies, to provide sacrifice down to the, uh, uh, your people, uh, to the structure of society,
00:39:56.840
to the warriors, to the peasants, all of that. And, uh, asking about, uh, about being, about, uh,
00:40:05.480
origin, uh, source of everything, uh, to connect and open divine nature inside yourself,
00:40:15.400
it's your due. Uh, and every of them, peasant, warrior, and, uh, priest, philosopher, uh,
00:40:28.120
can and must, uh, fight against, uh, modernity and post-modernity, according to their, uh,
00:40:39.480
Uh, farm your land and, uh, pay no taxes or don't buy food, for example. True revolt against
00:40:50.840
modern world today is, uh, uh, growing up your own food and, uh, never visit, uh, uh, Walmart or
00:40:59.400
something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So you're referring to, I just want to let people know,
00:41:05.240
you're referring to the Greek, the Germano-Scandinavian, the Slavic-Russian pagan
00:41:09.480
traditions, and it's called, you refer to as the Indo-European estate social structures,
00:41:14.520
right, which are embodying the spirit of the European traditions. And you get into these different
00:41:19.320
kind of estate, uh, systems and how it has their own inherent set of initiations. I think
00:41:25.480
Plato also touched upon this. Was it, was it Plato who talked about this? Um, the different ages that
00:41:31.160
correspond with the estates and the metals? Was it Plato or who first talked about these? This idea?
00:41:38.520
Uh, uh, I think it's a major idea, uh, and the one of the most important, uh, in pagan traditionalism
00:41:47.880
and Indo-European paganism at all. But, uh, there is a, uh, special problem because uh,
00:41:55.400
Jimizil described, uh, idealistic, uh, types in real life, uh, for example, in, uh, India and Hinduism,
00:42:05.480
we can find, um, uh, time by time, but, uh, pure, uh, examples of, uh, this, uh, sacred estates, uh,
00:42:19.160
uh, in Warnerschram, for example. But in German society, in ancient German society, there is no such,
00:42:26.680
uh, differentiate, differentiation. Uh, people may, uh, time by time change their activities, uh, way of
00:42:36.760
life and, uh, became, never became peasants, for example. Uh, we know about, uh, German warriors,
00:42:47.400
uh, wars and, uh, warlords and, uh, about German poets and priests and sacrality, but, uh, really
00:42:57.880
close to nothing we know about their peasantry, uh, in the ancient times, uh, not in the Middle Ages,
00:43:05.080
for example, uh, after Christianization. And, uh, this, uh, uh, idealistic, uh, describing, uh,
00:43:15.400
uh, anyway, it's very important, uh, because they, I think, and I'm sure, uh, these three types, uh,
00:43:27.080
of people, of, uh, uh, of human soul by plot, uh, exist and present, uh, in every society,
00:43:38.920
in every people, but they may represent in different ways, in difficult, uh, complex, uh,
00:43:46.920
ways. And it's a question to find them. The regular men who are watching, uh, and, uh,
00:43:56.360
watching, for, for example, for horses and cows, uh, in the steps of Euraza, uh, at night, uh, may
00:44:04.600
become a shaman, uh, perform shamanic rites. And, uh, who is, is he a priest, uh, or he's a peasant? No.
00:44:17.160
But, uh, uh, time by time, uh, by, uh, calendar for the soccer, for example, uh, sacred calendar,
00:44:25.480
uh, or by need. Uh, he might, he may leave his, uh, regular activity, dress, uh, shaman costume, uh,
00:44:38.200
take a tambourine, uh, into the left hand, and, uh, became a shaman, and, uh, perform and, uh, or
00:44:45.640
travel, uh, to the highest skies, uh, and, uh, uh, talking with ghosts, the spirits of ancestral, uh,
00:44:55.160
and it is also an Indo-European structure. And, uh, in non-Indo-European societies, we sometimes can
00:45:04.680
find, uh, this differentiation. Uh, I think it's, uh, very important because, uh, it's already lost.
00:45:13.160
In modern society, everything makes it. We cannot be sure about, uh, yeah, everyone's, it's not just,
00:45:20.280
uh, yes, because our army may be, uh, full, uh, not by warriors, but by peasants, or our political,
00:45:30.920
So our, uh, politicians, uh, uh, have a silver or gold soul by platinum. Maybe they have soul made
00:45:42.360
Yeah, so it's a really interesting idea, though, the, the three estates within society,
00:45:46.520
right? And this whole idea of priests, kings, and warriors. You're right, though. Now it's,
00:45:50.040
I'd say a whole lot of peasants, right? And then there was also, what was it in the third estate
00:45:54.520
consisted of, uh, farmers, artisans, and merchants. Well, we definitely have merchants today, don't we?
00:46:02.040
It is also interesting, uh, but we have also, uh, sub-estate types of people, uh, according to
00:46:10.920
Julius Evel, for example, uh, uh, the population of cities, uh, of, uh, middle-aged bourgeoisie,
00:46:21.320
and, uh, Soviet, or not only Soviet, proletarians. And now we have a precarious,
00:46:29.160
it is a sub-estate, uh, types of, uh, uh, people, of, uh, human being, for example. And the French
00:46:39.960
thinker, uh, Alen Soral, uh, in his, uh, very good book, uh, To Understand the Empire,
00:46:47.400
if I, uh, correct, uh, if I remember correctly, uh, he discussed about the, uh, spirituality and
00:46:56.280
metaphysical role of the third, uh, estate of peasantry. And, uh, he advocated peasantry as, uh,
00:47:03.880
the last state who saving traditional and conservative spirit. Yeah. Warriors and priests,
00:47:13.720
uh, uh, passed away or, uh, degenerate, uh, to the terminal station, uh, but peasantry, uh,
00:47:24.040
uh, uh, still, uh, saving, uh, and preserving this, uh, conservative type of thinking of way of life
00:47:34.200
and so on. This is also very interesting, uh, thoughts. And, uh, they, I think, uh, may be
00:47:42.520
interesting to develop in the future. Absolutely. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to talk about briefly
00:47:50.040
is this idea, and we kind of touched upon it earlier, but that pagans didn't have any morality
00:47:56.440
or this, uh, code of ethics, right? But, you know, we have the nine noble virtues before the
00:48:01.320
Ten Commandments. And I always say, you're talking about your own ancestors here. You have to show some
00:48:05.320
respect. Do you think all your ancestors were just, well, now heathen has become like a dirty word,
00:48:09.720
right? We call it someone, oh, you heathen when you just behave uncivilized and horribly,
00:48:14.520
but that is not the case. The, the, the, we're talking about our ancestors. We have to look at
00:48:19.000
this, not in like some cartoon version that's been presented to us about what our ancestors used to be
00:48:24.040
like. Uh, and then you have some shows. I enjoyed the Viking show, but they do show a lot of, you know,
00:48:29.080
they're having mushrooms, they're drinking a lot. They're just murdering all the time,
00:48:32.840
uh, you know, just orgies or whatever. I don't think they showed orgies in that, but people have this
00:48:37.400
idea that pagans are just like eating mushrooms and having orgies and like worshiping Satan.
00:48:42.840
Uh, of course it's not the case at all. So what can you say about pagan morality and virtues?
00:48:50.200
Uh, uh, I want to notice a very important thing. Uh, there is no, really, really no, uh,
00:48:59.880
universal things. Everything we can say, oh, it's some, it's universal, it's objective reality is
00:49:07.400
universal truth. It is a false statement every time, uh, every universal, uh, testament, every
00:49:17.480
universal thing. It's, uh, local, it's every time a local thing, but, uh, growing up and, uh,
00:49:27.320
established it as a universal by force lie or in any, uh, other way. So, uh, pagan traditionalism
00:49:38.680
did not, uh, establish, uh, any kind of, uh, reversal morality and ethics. Every time we, uh, should, uh,
00:49:50.760
asking, uh, tradition or people we want to know about them something or we want to visit, for example,
00:49:58.920
then we want to visit some tribe, uh, in jungle or some, uh, pagan community in Northern Europe or in
00:50:07.400
Siberia. Uh, we must ask them, uh, talking with them, but, uh, guys, what about some taboos or how we
00:50:17.480
must look, uh, how we must behave or we what think we should, uh, should not do in your, uh, society.
00:50:27.160
And in different traditions, we can find a very, uh, close and, for example, close and or common
00:50:35.560
rules, common morality, uh, close to us or very far from us or really, uh, different kinds of, uh,
00:50:48.200
moral codecs, uh, uh, maybe looking barbarian for us, but it's, it's also civilizing barbarians, uh,
00:50:56.040
modern, uh, progressive, uh, uh, terms and, uh, totally disqualified, uh, to describe, uh,
00:51:03.880
pagan traditions. So, uh, pagan traditionalism is about, uh, plurality of, uh, uh, sacred, uh,
00:51:13.320
uh, manifestations and, uh, ethics and morality in different societies, uh, they are, um,
00:51:22.200
sovereign for their people. And, uh, I think we must, uh, respect them. And if it's unappreciated to us,
00:51:30.440
so don't talk with them, don't visit, uh, and be free to do not, uh, communicate,
00:51:38.840
or if you don't want, uh, or it's, uh, against your, or ethics and morality. Universal ethics, it's, uh,
00:51:47.480
for example, Christian ethics, uh, it is a local story, but this local, uh,
00:51:54.600
uh, local assemblage, local range of rules was, uh, forced, uh, forced, uh, globally and always
00:52:04.840
destroyed all the locals, uh, local customs, local, uh, taboos and so on. It is, uh, uh, gears
00:52:15.960
of cultural genocide for me. So, plurality, it is hard thing. It is not a multiculturalism or, uh,
00:52:26.440
really totally, uh, total relativism. No, we're talking about real, uh, traditional plurality,
00:52:34.680
uh, which, uh, is, uh, money, which are manifest of deity. So, it is not a, uh, imaginative
00:52:45.240
construction or, uh, synthetic, artificial, uh, structures, uh, or list of what we should or
00:52:54.440
shouldn't do and how we behave. No. Yeah, I think that's what, that's what's hard for people. They
00:52:59.160
want it simple. They want it in a Bible. They want a rule book. Like, here's the things you can and
00:53:03.320
can't do, right? Whereas with us, it's like, it's kind of written within, like, the code of honor is
00:53:09.000
within. Like, you learn that through time. I know that's Cornelius Tacitus, right? Um, the greatest
00:53:14.440
Roman historian had all these great things to say about, uh, German barbarians and their code of
00:53:19.880
ethics and their morality and how, uh, their views on adultery and, uh, lying. And, you know, so they
00:53:26.920
had a code of ethics within and they lived up to it. And if you were a bad person, you would get iced
00:53:32.280
out of that village or that tribe wouldn't like you. So, you had to behave, especially in these
00:53:35.880
cold places where you all had to pull together. You're in Siberia. You know, if there's one guy that's
00:53:40.920
acting like an idiot or stealing from people or treating people badly, they're not going to like
00:53:44.760
him. He's probably going to get thrown out of the village, right? Vikings also had, yes, this, uh,
00:53:49.960
they despised people who didn't honor their words. If someone had a dispute to settle, they can
00:53:54.520
challenge that person in a duel. It was called a home gang. Like, I've learned all these different
00:53:59.080
things that, you know, Norse culture had that, that proves time and time and again that, you know,
00:54:04.520
there was a code of ethics. It was, it could also be a matter of honor. Like, if you
00:54:08.600
insulted someone, exactly. If you call them the equivalent of a fag or gay, like back then,
00:54:14.440
it was like the greatest insult. Like, that guy can challenge you to death, you know? So,
00:54:19.160
I think it's, it's interesting that there's so many of these aspects, but just because it wasn't
00:54:23.400
written down in a nice little rule book, people think that it didn't, it couldn't have existed.
00:54:28.360
Oh, yes. Just in Europe, uh, uh, we have, um, really, uh, closest or common, uh, set of, uh, rules or
00:54:39.160
ethical statements. So if you, uh, talking just about Europe, it is, uh, really, uh, question became
00:54:47.720
easily, or if we're looking wide, uh, it's, uh, a more complicated, uh, question. And, uh, just for me,
00:54:57.000
it's, uh, interested to thinking about more complicated, uh, but, uh, uh, uh, I can agree
00:55:05.640
with you about, uh, people really want to some easy, uh, to, to go to by easy way. And, uh, in Europe,
00:55:15.560
we cannot, we, we can fight, uh, find, uh, uh, uh, this, uh, virtues, this, uh, uh, morality and
00:55:25.960
from people to people will be very close. Uh, don't kill, don't, uh, thief, uh, but in different,
00:55:35.400
for example, some, uh, cultures, uh, stole something from different, right? It's, it's a future. You are,
00:55:45.320
very good men if you can stole something and they didn't catch you.
00:55:51.480
Yeah. If you can go and loot them. Well, a lot of times the Vikings were looting because it was
00:55:55.480
revenge for the Crusades too. Right. And then, uh, they were such good fighters and the Christians
00:56:00.520
are like, Hey, come fight for us. Right. Oh man. Well, there's so much more I want to get into. So I
00:56:07.640
think that we should take a little break and then continue a little more while we have you,
00:56:11.400
since you're way up in Siberia. We'll continue with more in part two, continuing on postmodernism
00:56:17.160
from a pagan traditionalist perspective, but we also want to weave together the end of days,
00:56:21.320
the culmination of the Kali Yuga and the Ragnarok and this war against reality. What is the fate of
00:56:27.640
Europe and the destiny of the world? Also, I kind of wanted to get a little bit into the hero and the
00:56:32.360
martyr manifestationism. I want to hear about paganism in Russia and much more. So join us on the other side.
00:56:38.600
We're going to continue part two with Asker on redicemembers.com. Not yet a member? Subscribe
00:56:45.240
now. It's with your support that we're able to do what we can do against all odds. The phase of this
00:56:51.160
cycle requires all types of talents to be involved. Peasants, haha, farmers, merchants, artisans,
00:56:57.960
warriors, priests, and kings. Well, you know what I mean. Thank you executive producers T, Lothrop,
00:57:03.720
Stoddard, V. Miller, Resin Revolt, and good luck, Lapp. See you on the other side.