Radio 3Fourteen - Egalitarianism vs Aristocratic Values

00:00:00.000 Welcome, this is Lana. Thanks for joining us. With me is returning guest and philosopher

00:00:18.700 Seth Cooper, a lifelong devotee of fantasy and mythology who earned a philosophy degree

00:00:24.160 in 2001. He lives by himself in the rural northern neck of Virginia where he wrote his

00:00:29.200 debut novel, The Glorious Path. This show is about one hour and 45 minutes, so longer than the usual.

00:00:35.760 We'll begin on the roots of egalitarianism. Seth provides the weak argument for it versus

00:00:40.840 aristocratic values which are based on hierarchy. Fascism, what is it? Seth shares five typical

00:00:47.040 aspects and we talk about why egalitarians are so terrified of it, believing the Hollywood version

00:00:52.440 of what it means to be a fascist. We're fighting in a battle of values. Later on, we reflect on

00:00:58.520 the alt-right and where it's going. What needs to happen next? Seth Cooper, welcome back. Thanks

00:01:04.280 for being here. Yeah, no problem. Thanks, Lana. I appreciate the opportunity to be back and look

00:01:10.360 forward to the talk. Me too. So what did you think when you saw your friend Eric in the Atlantic video

00:01:15.380 that's, I don't know, I think it's been seen about a hundred million times by now, at least around the

00:01:19.560 world? Well, I mean, from my perspective, I wasn't that surprised because I had watched the live stream.

00:01:27.160 So I had been seeing Eric mingling with that crowd at that event for like 10 hours. So, you know,

00:01:35.580 I couldn't have predicted what bits the media were going to single out and turn into this nightmare or

00:01:44.820 whatever. But, uh, I guess I could have, is it's when the hands flew up in the air. So of course

00:01:51.100 they're going to ignore everything else and just pinpoint some histrionic moment during the event.

00:01:58.260 Did you have a laugh though? When you said Eric, like perfectly turns right there. It's almost like

00:02:03.060 someone said, Hey Eric, and then it turns around. Right. It almost seemed coordinated. Uh,

00:02:09.460 it wasn't, I guess the way I tried to evaluate what was going on was, you know, what if I had been

00:02:18.140 there and I, I also had signed the release and my face had shown up. I probably like the, what had

00:02:27.020 happened to Eric and Heather probably would not have happened to me, honestly, because I, I don't really

00:02:33.040 have, you're a hermit. Yeah. And what friends I do have, don't give a damn whether I would have,

00:02:40.680 they would have probably approved of my going there and even my family members. So, you know,

00:02:47.660 it's easy for me to act indifferent or above it all when, you know, I wouldn't really have had

00:02:53.900 anything to risk. But, you know, at the end of the day, I do think it's ridiculous what's happened.

00:02:58.480 And, you know, with friends like Heather's who needs enemies, really. I know exactly. It's funny.

00:03:05.340 And then I told you before we started this, how, you know, it was a whole big deal to hail Trump.

00:03:10.020 But when Castro just died, everyone said, hail Castro. And that was no problem. And he actually

00:03:14.760 murdered people, but Richard Spencer hasn't even heard a fly. So yeah, the double standards,

00:03:20.820 ridiculous. I mean, it's, I don't know how to explain it. I mean, I guess it's just party line

00:03:27.140 thinking, you know, like, it's just blue team versus red team. So if, you know, whatever is

00:03:35.640 done in the name of the red team is okay. Even if you are a maniacal, communistic leader who has a

00:03:44.340 track record of killing people, as long as he's on the red team, hey.

00:03:50.380 Well, the last time you were on, there was so much we left out wanting to expand upon. And it's tough

00:03:55.400 to get to know someone for the first time and then say, okay, well, let's break down

00:03:58.460 egalitarianism and fascism. One hour, let's go, you know. But we're going to try and squeeze in a lot

00:04:03.020 into this talk. And one of those words that we can't get away from in our current establishment

00:04:07.480 is equality. So I think we should dive into egalitarianism. And what is it?

00:04:13.020 That is a good place to start, actually. You know, I guess even just from a pure academic

00:04:21.020 stance, and I guess more specifically, a philosophical beginning point, usually is

00:04:28.720 something as elementary as just, what is it? What is the thing we're talking about? Basically,

00:04:35.980 to ask what the thing is, what is egalitarianism, it sort of reduces to asking what people mean

00:04:45.180 when they uphold it? You know, when it's evaluated in a society, when it's put forward

00:04:51.780 as a value and held as a value in society, what is it that they are upholding? You can

00:05:00.400 answer that question in a twofold way. You can answer that question to say that it's the

00:05:08.240 doctrine or proposition that all men are equal in a given society. So that would be A, that all men

00:05:20.540 are equal, or B, that men ought to be treated as equal. Yeah, exactly. Equal under the law,

00:05:28.760 I think, is much different than saying we're all created equal, which is an absurd thing to believe

00:05:33.080 because we're not. Yeah, right. I mean, it's just false. If that's the problem, if you're going

00:05:39.680 with option A, unfortunately, truth is not on your side in that one. I mean, it's just anti-empirical,

00:05:47.720 any amount of anecdotal experience would show that it's false. And then science itself, you know,

00:05:54.520 biology shows that what nature produces are gradations, not flat lines, gradations,

00:06:01.960 not equality. And like it or not, nothing has evolved in order to suit modern sensibilities or,

00:06:13.400 you know, moral feelings, especially modern ones. Evolution tends to produce hierarchy and modernity

00:06:23.780 produces ideals contrary to that. So we as modern people, you know, living in liberal societies are

00:06:36.040 in this weird predicament where we are committed to holding to ideals which in themselves are contrary

00:06:47.280 to the way of nature. So when a liberal says egalitarian or equality, what do you think that

00:06:55.480 they're saying? What do you think they mean? I think most of them haven't even thought out

00:07:00.140 that point, whether we're talking about a fact statement or a value statement. Maybe with a little

00:07:06.240 investigation or something, they would realize that this question is before them. But

00:07:13.200 I guess the ones who have thought about it, and no doubt there are many, but probably go with option

00:07:21.540 B, like they realize men are not, or I'm sorry, people are not in fact equal. But nonetheless,

00:07:29.260 we have some sort of like social contract obligation or duty to act as if everybody is equal and base

00:07:38.100 customs and practices and laws and an ethos on that ideal. Yeah. I mean, now it's, you know,

00:07:43.580 this person has, has something, they have more money, they have wealth, and this person doesn't.

00:07:48.380 Oh my God, there's inequality. We have to level this out. So we basically have to take it from the

00:07:53.660 person who has it and give it to the one who doesn't have it. And then we'll all be equal. I mean,

00:07:58.260 this is what they do. Right. And egalitarianism is like, I mean, even within academic circles,

00:08:05.220 it's basically held to be the most fundamental moral judgment that we have. If you're a professional

00:08:12.880 philosopher, you could seriously jeopardize your reputation as a serious philosopher by even

00:08:20.560 daring to question egalitarianism. I guess the death of Socrates set that precedent of questioning

00:08:29.540 what society holds to be cherished and then facing capital punishment for doing so. But I don't even

00:08:37.100 think that for most people living in liberal societies, it's even a topic that it's occurred

00:08:45.100 to them to even question. Yeah. And it's funny because even thinking in terms of equality under the

00:08:51.700 law, that's not even true because there's some people now, a lot of non-Europeans that are getting

00:08:56.600 a leg up and getting away with things that this other class of people is not getting. So

00:09:02.080 they're actually pushing inequality while they're saying, oh, it's egalitarianism.

00:09:07.960 Yeah, that is funny how you can work it. On the one hand, claim outwardly that egalitarianism is

00:09:14.300 your foremost value, but then the things you're actually doing, like if you, yeah, like in this case,

00:09:22.280 those of European descent are typically on the shit list today. Yeah. So those won't be the

00:09:29.400 beneficiaries of this supposedly universal value of equality. I forget which book it was where it was

00:09:36.260 one of those good sci-fi books. There was a ballerina and she could dance well and she was better than

00:09:43.400 everyone else. So they had to chain her legs down, you know, so that the other ones could dance as well.

00:09:49.320 And it's just kind of, it is a good analogy because it's like, if, if you're smarter, if you're more

00:09:54.620 beautiful, if you do better, they almost have to knock, they have to knock those people down. They

00:09:59.620 have to drag them down in the name of egalitarianism. So those that are less than can actually appear to

00:10:05.660 be equal for a time. So, so that sort of raises the question of why, you know, just philosophically

00:10:12.200 speaking, what sort of obligation would we have? Like what, once we dismiss the idea that men are

00:10:19.060 equal so that, you know, like in that example, obviously that ballerina is superior in what she's

00:10:25.060 doing, you know, relative to the other ones. Um, if we're going to go with the ideal, well,

00:10:32.820 what is the philosophical argument for that ideal? I mean, why should we chain her legs or whatever?

00:10:39.680 Like what, why should we engage in courses of action that reinforce that ideal to make people

00:10:47.160 equal, even when they're not for one thing, as a start to just blacklist the question out of hand,

00:10:55.420 um, you know, and just refuse to listen to anybody who does dare question it that that's not an argument.

00:11:03.940 I mean, that, that's just a sign of a lack of confidence in the ideal you hold. I mean, if you're not

00:11:10.680 willing to mount any sort of arguments on behalf of it, really, that just shows you're not as confident

00:11:18.980 in its reality as you thought you were.

00:11:21.380 Now, what are some of the non-egalitarian alternatives? I know you've spoken about aristocratic values.

00:11:27.300 That's probably the most powerful and historically relevant alternative to egalitarianism. What would

00:11:36.000 a non-egalitarian, egalitarian value system be like, which is sort of another way of asking,

00:11:43.760 how would you win this value battle? If we're not talking about argumentation, it's just a battle

00:11:50.200 of values. Well, one powerful way of doing that is to make the case for some sort of aristocratic

00:11:58.620 value system, um, which has its base in an order of rank, an order of rank being a reflection of the

00:12:09.040 factual reality of man's inequality. So it doesn't, so first off, it doesn't see inequality as a problem.

00:12:18.060 It's not, it's not seeing it as a social injustice that needs to be fixed or something. It's just

00:12:25.740 ordering society in an honest way that maps onto the factual reality as it is, by the way,

00:12:34.240 doesn't imply denigrating those lower.

00:12:38.000 Exactly. See, in a communist mind, they're like, oh, well, that means then that the aristocrats are

00:12:42.720 constantly suppressing and holding down the little guys, but that's not true.

00:12:46.380 Right, right. I mean, it's not holding them down because in being lesser there, they are down. I

00:12:54.620 mean, it's just putting, it's just respecting people's merits and capacities for what they are.

00:13:01.020 Just to jump in here for a second, Seth, do you also want to point out kind of what you mean by

00:13:07.140 liberalism as contrasted to an aristocratic value system? Because, uh, based on talking to you before,

00:13:16.060 I know that you're not just talking about leftists, quote unquote, but the, what makes up the entire

00:13:23.880 spectrum of the current political sphere today. It's true. It's all, it's all over on both sides

00:13:30.080 of our current sphere. Yeah. Well, neocons also uphold egalitarianism nowadays, so it's,

00:13:35.100 it's permitting both sides basically. Yeah. It, it basically has its roots in Thomas Hobbes and John

00:13:41.060 Locke, Thomas Paine, Rousseau, guys like that who, who basically were reconceiving society based on the

00:13:52.680 social contract theory where, and, and usually what ties into that is this idea of inherent rights.

00:14:01.180 And it was thought of during kind of like a deistic time when particular religious traditions were not

00:14:12.060 really accepted by the intellectuals at the time, but they kind of just generally held to a deistic

00:14:18.420 viewpoint where a God kind of set the clockwork of the universe into motion. And because of that

00:14:27.140 intelligent design, that's why the universe runs rationally and we can form rational scientific

00:14:35.380 models to explain it and all that. So it, they, they developed a political system that had as,

00:14:43.300 as part of its presuppositions, a God is like a first cause that instilled in everybody sort of

00:14:50.880 rights that were just intrinsic to what they were. So, so metaphysical rights, natural rights that

00:14:57.740 inhere in individuals just by sheer dent of their coming into existence. And, and because of these

00:15:07.160 natural rights that give some sort of protection from like random despotism from monarchs, uh, because

00:15:17.160 even the, even the monarch, no matter how powerful he is, he has to, you know, respect these God-given

00:15:22.580 rights. Uh, and it, it also ties in with, you know, representational governments. It, it, it's basically

00:15:29.420 a way of forming human societies that dissolve, not dissolve, but sort of redistribute power away from

00:15:37.280 concentrated, uh, embodiments like a monarch or aristocracies or something like that.

00:15:44.000 You know, you were kind of getting into some of the roots of egalitarianism, some of the

00:15:48.800 philosophers behind the ideas, but how, how did they really come in and defeat a lot of these

00:15:54.100 aristocratic values? What were their arguments? I think you'd mentioned some of the arguments for

00:15:58.020 egalitarianism. I think the fact of the matter is that it wasn't defeated by argumentation. I think

00:16:03.200 world war one, uh, I think just sheer politics brought down, but for one thing that, and this is

00:16:10.920 sort of a Nietzschean idea, I guess, but Nietzsche has this idea that the philosopher's task is to

00:16:19.520 determine human destiny and be the lawgiver, especially from this existential context where

00:16:27.580 we don't have this deistic God anymore guaranteeing natural rights. I mean, once you dismiss that

00:16:36.800 metaphysical belief, then it becomes incumbent on human thinking and willing to create values in

00:16:48.300 human society, they're not pre-given in some sort of moral world order. So, um, basically make,

00:16:58.320 if that's the case, then egalitarianism would risk, it would threaten that task of the philosopher of

00:17:06.560 making something out of man, of furnishing man a destiny, because it would, it would just obviate

00:17:15.040 that destiny. It would be a, what happens is it becomes a quagmire of individualism, right? Like I can do

00:17:23.920 whatever I want. I just have this inherent right to do whatever I want so long as I'm not interfering

00:17:31.140 with your inherent right to do whatever you want. And when you universalize that, it puts

00:17:39.100 a stopgap on human striving because that striving, that willing, or that law giving ends with the

00:17:52.260 individual at the moment of his or her death. I mean, nothing more, you know, I mean, you're free

00:17:58.640 to have whatever little hobby you want, you know, as long as it doesn't interfere with somebody else's

00:18:03.780 hobby or whatever, but no matter how much importance you place in what you've centered your life around,

00:18:13.860 it ends with you. That, that's sort of the inbuilt futility of rabid individualism, which I see is

00:18:24.200 largely characterizing the world we have today. Like, to illustrate the point I'm trying to make,

00:18:30.200 there, like, think of, there are two different ways to overcome or dismiss white guilt, if you,

00:18:38.300 if you know what I mean by that. Oh yeah, of course we do. Most people listening to this show,

00:18:43.040 they know what that means. Yeah, that was probably a needless rhetorical question there, but, but,

00:18:50.160 but, and I've heard this online before, like from people like TJ Kirk, whose moniker is the amazing

00:18:56.840 atheist. I've heard him say before, because he gets upset at social justice warriors too, who malign the

00:19:03.820 white race, uh, because of the so-called evils of, of their ancestors and everything, as if minority

00:19:10.460 groups are owed something by present day whites for the things of, you know, of the past. Well,

00:19:18.820 his attitude, which kind of reflects the individualistic attitude I was just talking about

00:19:23.600 is, well, my forebears mean nothing to me and they're not me. I'm my own guy. I make my own

00:19:30.140 decisions. They have nothing to do with me. Whereas the, what I would call like the aristocratic

00:19:37.140 way of, of overcoming white guilt or dismissing it would be something more like my forebears did

00:19:44.840 such and such to make the present moment possible, including the evil. And I'm proud of it. And I

00:19:52.460 have inherited all of that evil and all. And they, and they do have something to do with me

00:19:58.380 because their victories made possible the present moment, such as it is. And this kind of ties in

00:20:06.220 to the philosopher G.E. Moore, who's a British philosopher. He had the, he has this famous

00:20:11.800 quip against altruism, um, which ties in to egalitarianism, obviously. Um, he said in response

00:20:23.820 to insipid statement that the point of existence is to help others, he said, well, what are the

00:20:31.040 others for? Let that one sink in. There is a nuance to, I like one thing I should add to

00:20:38.900 this idea of aristocratic values though, is that there, and Nietzsche talks about this. You have

00:20:46.100 equality within rank. Yeah. When Nietzsche's term, the Latin term interperies, uh, so among equals.

00:20:54.540 Now, what, what are some of the, the best arguments against aristocratic values?

00:21:00.880 Well, it, in the history of philosophy, there are three main ethical theories, probably the most

00:21:08.660 famous one or not famous, but the most popular one today. And it, it's so pervasive that most people,

00:21:15.820 don't even realize that their thinking is bound up with it is utilitarianism, which was, well, I,

00:21:25.820 I won't get into the whole history of that, but basically the, the formulation of that is

00:21:31.700 whenever you're deciding what course of action to do, always do the one that, uh, creates the

00:21:38.920 greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people. And good here, good here, meaning

00:21:43.400 happiness. And basically happiness, meaning pleasure. Although that's where it gets hairy.

00:21:49.940 That can't stand as a counter argument to these aristocratic, the aristocratic value system I'm

00:21:58.320 talking about as a superior, uh, alternative to egalitarianism, which I see as deadening and

00:22:08.500 stifling to the human will. Um, because that formula I just said about maximizing the greatest

00:22:17.380 amount of happiness for the maximal amount of people already presupposes that men are equal.

00:22:23.820 So that just begs the question it, like in order to be, in order to execute the utilitarian

00:22:31.100 formula, you have to already act as if men are equal. So that doesn't get you anywhere. Another, uh,

00:22:39.140 major or predominant moral theory is virtue ethics, which, um, Aristotle was the most famous proponent

00:22:47.480 of and his most famous work expressing these ideas is found in the, uh, Nicomachean ethics. But that too,

00:22:55.980 isn't going to like, don't go there. If you're trying to find reasons against an aristocratic value

00:23:02.320 system, because in Aristotle's world and his own presuppositions and the audience he thought he was

00:23:08.200 writing through, that was totally aristocratic. Kant probably furnishes the best argument that at least

00:23:17.440 that I'm aware of, uh, in favor of egalitarianism. And that would basically be summed up that we should

00:23:24.920 adopt a sort of Kantian regard for universal human dignity, which is another way of saying that it's

00:23:32.320 necessary to act as if all men are equal out of respect for the dignity of all rational creatures

00:23:38.860 in egalitarian societies they don't want in, you know, upper strata of society. But anyway,

00:23:45.860 if it is necessary to act this way, then even the higher types would require an egalitarian society

00:23:52.780 to flourish. And so the thinking goes, then aristocratic societies would stifle the flourishing

00:24:01.740 of higher types. So it actually behooves even aristocrats to live in an egalitarian society.

00:24:09.120 That's the argument. My response to that is that just seems like nonsense to you.

00:24:14.980 Yeah. It's a meaningless assertion of necessity to say that we have to act that way. It almost seems

00:24:22.860 like you, you're asserting that necessity just for the sake of having a counter argument for it. Um,

00:24:32.240 because in this, in the scenario that I just described where the higher types actually benefit

00:24:38.860 from an egalitarian, an egalitarian society, the higher types are posited as existing in that

00:24:47.520 scenario. So that would mean that meaning a above the fact statement is false. Um, and it would also

00:24:56.220 mean that adopting meaning B, which is that we ought to have the ideal of acting as if everybody's equal.

00:25:02.940 Uh, so it would mean adopting B, but, uh, but that ought to me obviously raises the question of,

00:25:13.700 well, if we do adopt the ideal that we have to act as if everyone is equal, well, who really benefits

00:25:20.840 in that scenario in a society where everyone works to make everyone equal by initially pretending

00:25:28.640 that all men are equal. Well, it's not the higher types. Exactly. Yeah. All right. Now let's go to

00:25:37.360 the complete opposite side of this political spectrum, if you will. And let's, let's talk about

00:25:43.160 fascism. What can you tell us about fascism? I think my goal here in talking about fascism,

00:25:50.520 at least partly is about sort of taking the sting out of the stigma of it, because I, I, I feel as if

00:26:00.480 that's, that remains a word that has some bite to it as an insult, like even though like the

00:26:09.140 imprecation of being a racist says by and large lost its force because of the usefulness of it has

00:26:17.820 been so watered down that it, it can't even really serve as an insult. It's true. When I was, you know,

00:26:24.040 younger, I used to tell my mom, stop being such a fascist. And now it's like, well, actually I was

00:26:28.500 complimenting her when I was saying that. I just didn't know it yet. And then I saw also on Twitter,

00:26:33.480 oh, and she would get so mad when I called her from stopping a fascist. And then, uh, I was on

00:26:38.820 Twitter the other day and Merriam Webster, you know, the dictionary they had tweeted, they said,

00:26:42.820 fascism is still our number one lookup. So number of lookups equals how they choose the word of the

00:26:49.180 year. So I take it, it's going to be the word of the year. So they're like, there's still time to

00:26:52.900 look something else up that everyone is searching for a definition for it. I mean, clearly.

00:26:59.200 Yeah. And I wonder if that's because it's the, the way thinking or the political climate has

00:27:11.080 coalesced into something where fascism has become the black guard. Uh, yeah, it's just,

00:27:17.180 everyone's in agreement. Yeah. Everyone thinks Trump is an agreement. Everyone thinks Trump is a

00:27:21.880 fascist, right? They think it's the fascist States of America now. Yeah. Well, I, well, I don't know if

00:27:27.820 they think that, um, because in order to think that Trump or anybody else is a fascist, you first

00:27:33.120 have to know what you're talking about. I think it's just more a willingness to throw that label

00:27:39.520 around. I mean, I, I like, I'm not sure if, you know, like once the rabble just, uh, overuse the

00:27:48.560 word and it just becomes sloppy like that, it pretty much just becomes synonymous with evil or something

00:27:56.660 like that or whatever must be destroyed. Yeah. And then on the flip side, you have, you know,

00:28:01.780 neocons or libertarians who call the left, oh, you're being fascists just when they're trying to

00:28:06.880 shut down free speech. So, so what are the aspects of fascism? Yeah. Okay. Uh, and these aspects,

00:28:16.200 by the way, they're not things that I necessarily think are essential to it. It's just the result of my

00:28:24.080 research on the topic. So it tends to be these five things that tend to be connected to the idea

00:28:32.060 of fascism. Um, so the, the, the first one would be military dictatorship. Um, that, that's what,

00:28:41.940 you know, that's one thing that most people connect to it. Uh, and that would be, you know,

00:28:47.640 this idea that there's a regime centered around some sort of charismatic figure who wields, uh,

00:28:56.100 the, the power of the army at his behest. Um, but this, but in, in being a charismatic figurehead,

00:29:05.760 he represents the entire force of the government to the people in his own person. Um,

00:29:15.160 and once again, this is neither praise or criticism. It's just a description, but, but so

00:29:24.480 basically it having the, a, a central figurehead there is a convenient way to embody a government

00:29:35.200 to, you know, so, so that the people can look up and see one guy standing there and it, right,

00:29:42.620 rather than being like an, uh, uh, an abstract Senate or something like that, you know, where

00:29:48.220 it's, uh, a collection of oligarchs or something. Um, because you can't just, you know, look at the

00:29:56.860 Senate, you would, you would see a building or, you know, you would see a bunch of guys or something.

00:30:03.000 I think it's easier when it's one man, cause then you know who to blame. It's just like,

00:30:06.620 in the old, uh, Viking communities, the king, you know, we knew who the king was and if he screwed

00:30:11.740 up, everyone knew who to blame. And in fact, they would go after him if he screwed up and

00:30:15.920 replace him with a new king. Yeah. I mean, it cuts both ways because it, right. I mean, if it's,

00:30:21.460 uh, centered in one figure, then all the blame can go into that guy, but also all the praise.

00:30:27.860 I mean, if he does a good job. Yeah. So, uh, so anyway, there's that aspect of it. Um, a second

00:30:35.840 one I, I would call authoritarian. So usually, uh, what, what happens or has happened, uh, is that

00:30:47.820 some sort of strong control is exerted, um, in order to undo or reverse effects of some recent turmoil.

00:30:57.860 Uh, so there'll be some social tragedy or defeat or something. And it's in the throes of that sort of,

00:31:10.780 uh, fear or, uh, turmoil that the people become more willing to, uh, accept the exertion of strong

00:31:21.980 control to quickly solve the problem. And, uh, in the past, you know, this can, this can lead to

00:31:31.740 scapegoating as it's called, um, which is sort of defined as like the wrongful attribution

00:31:39.720 of instability or something to a group or some sort of social challenge or a class or something.

00:31:47.460 And of course the, the, the detractors of fascism, all these ad nauseum go to the scapegoating thing

00:31:55.960 is a, a reason why it's inherently, um, reprehensible or something like that. But I, I'll,

00:32:03.560 I'll talk more about that later. I, I'm just trying to get through these like objective points.

00:32:09.820 Dictatorship, authoritarian, and then what's the third one?

00:32:12.640 Um, the, the, the third one, and I sort of struggled to come up with like a, a one word

00:32:17.880 to capture this aspect of it. But the, the word I came up with was, I mean, it's not my

00:32:26.380 coinage, but whatever corporatism. Um, and the, the, the briefest way, uh, I could come up with

00:32:36.120 to sort of like render this into a formula, uh, it would be that corporatism is sort of

00:32:43.900 like a hybrid of socialism and capitalism, um, with the aim of unifying a country. So fascism

00:32:53.460 is very good at like whatever else may be said about it. It's very good at unifying a people

00:33:00.260 and corporatism is generally the sociopolitical structure that arises from that unification.

00:33:09.480 And it, it, it's, it's aims are over and above the near economic aims of either socialism or

00:33:19.240 capitalism for their own sake. So it's kind of funny. You mentioned, you, you know, calling

00:33:25.280 your mother a fascist as a child, because if you think about it, the family structure,

00:33:32.500 at least the traditional one, um, is a form of corporatism, right? Because not, not everybody's

00:33:41.960 equal, but yet there is a sort of pyramidal form to it and everybody has their place in the family.

00:33:48.900 But, but unlike, unlike capitalism, not everybody's out on his, it's not an individualistic structure,

00:33:58.180 nor is it a sheer, uh, communistic one. It's true. And this is one thing, you know,

00:34:05.700 I've heard a lot of people in the conspiracy area say, well, America is, is fascist, you know,

00:34:12.340 look at, you know, these corporations and what they're doing. They're all fascists. And it's like,

00:34:16.420 no, in, in a fascist economic system, the government is, is ruling over corporations,

00:34:21.760 but in America now you have, you know, corporations that are dictating to the government what's going

00:34:26.620 on. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, I, I mean, I would say a business corporation

00:34:32.300 like in itself is in a way it's like, I wouldn't call it fascism, but for the very reason you said,

00:34:41.740 but it is a form of corporatism. It's just that it's a, it's a form of corporatism

00:34:48.580 lying outside the goals of the government. So it it's, it's whatever it's for. And if,

00:34:56.500 you know, if it's a capitalistic thing, it's just going to be about, it's just going to be this

00:35:01.080 raging machine all about the acquisition of as much capital as its end goal.

00:35:07.480 With a, in a fascist system, uh, economically speaking, the underlying principle would be,

00:35:13.640 is it good for the people? Right. Is this good for the people? And if not, then we don't allow it.

00:35:19.660 Right. And for me, I would put like, I would put like McDonald's in that. Let's judge it. Can this

00:35:25.780 corporation stand? Is it good for the people? No, it's toxic. It's bad. Let's get rid of it. Okay.

00:35:30.700 Done. I mean, that would be great. You know, authoritarianism is great when it's your

00:35:34.580 people running things, of course. Right. Yeah. And that's the, the thing that you can't separate

00:35:41.040 out of this picture. It has to be for the interest of the folk. I mean, if you leave that element out

00:35:50.600 of it, it's none of this is going to make any sense. Yeah. Um, so anyway, like I, I had a few other

00:35:58.900 example, like branches of the military, uh, uh, craft or trade guilds, like the, the medieval guilds

00:36:06.780 that they were a form of corporatism, trade syndicates. Um, basically any organization

00:36:14.620 where individuals, I mean, it's made out of individuals, but their contribution lies in

00:36:23.000 fulfilling the role that they have in it. So corporatism, the root word there is the Latin

00:36:29.720 word, uh, corpus body. So it like a, just an intuitive way of thinking about it is any organism's

00:36:37.920 body where you have various parts all working together to unify it into a whole, right? Like

00:36:45.620 a body isn't all just a bunch of fingers or it's not all just skin cells. It's all these

00:36:51.260 various components put into the service of unifying a whole. So honestly, I mean, if we're talking

00:36:59.620 about the good of the folk or the people, it's the flip side of that coin, however, because

00:37:07.700 it's not really populism that we're talking about here. Uh, the, the summa bonum or the highest

00:37:15.760 good here would be the body, the larger body that emerges out of having all these individuals,

00:37:24.540 um, operating in their order of rank. Um, I'll be, you know, according to the authoritarian,

00:37:33.760 uh, structure that, uh, that the fascist state consists in. So we're not just, uh, and this,

00:37:43.260 I'll just jump to this point right now, since I kind of wandered into it. Um, that might, that may

00:37:49.980 be the hardest pill for modernity to swallow. Like people who are so used to liberal thinking,

00:37:58.000 um, where basically the rejection of the utilitarian principle I was talking about earlier,

00:38:05.800 that man's value, man doesn't have any value in himself. His value is derived from his service

00:38:15.320 ability to the task. Yep. And that, that, you know, that just chaffs, if you're not like the,

00:38:23.980 to the extent to which you were conditioned to thinking as a liberal, it will be the extent to

00:38:30.960 which that chaffs you the wrong way. So that, that might be, you know, but anyway, that's point

00:38:37.200 three. Uh, the, the fourth one or the, the fourth, uh, aspect, which always seems to come in to

00:38:47.140 discussions, uh, about what fascism is, is imperialism. And, um, basically what this serves

00:38:55.540 to do is it re it tends to rejuvenate morale for a fatherland. Um, and that morale oftentimes has taken

00:39:10.900 the form of pushing, uh, the extent of rule in the foreign countries. Um, and that push to grow

00:39:20.740 national boundaries, um, at the same time overcomes a national indolence. In other words, where

00:39:30.500 citizens sort of take for granted the power of the state, um, and sort of just expect to derive

00:39:40.860 privileges from it. Uh, even to the point where like what, what we face today is not even

00:39:50.680 just indolence, but outright hostility to it, where you should actually apologize for being

00:39:57.880 nationalistic, being so rejuvenated, having a morale so rejuvenated that you're actually willing

00:40:04.100 to expand your natural, your nationalistic boundaries that that's, that's, that's when

00:40:10.440 you're as with any other thing caught up in the will to power, anything that's not growing is dying.

00:40:17.820 So, I mean, you can look at a tree or anything, I mean, to the extent that a tree is alive,

00:40:23.800 it's reaching forth, uh, gathering more nourishment, reaching deeper into the soil.

00:40:30.820 So it, uh, the, the individual, uh, you know, uh, at the human level, right. You're either growing

00:40:40.160 into adulthood or you're shrinking towards, um, being a geriatric and then ending up six feet

00:40:47.360 under. So, I mean, the, the, the same measure of prosperity can be grafted onto a nation state

00:40:55.420 itself at that. And that too, uh, can be something hard to, that can be hard to hear by, you know,

00:41:03.160 today's sort of conciliatory liberal standards, but it is the case whether you like it or not.

00:41:12.240 Now, the last point you have on here too, is a xenophobia, right? And, uh, that can go,

00:41:18.400 you know, when I look at fascism, I think there's two counterparts. There's the social aspects and

00:41:22.600 then there's the economic aspects. Xenophobia, well, that's perfectly healthy. People have always

00:41:28.180 fought for territory and fought for tribe, but I think xenophobia would go into a social and economic

00:41:33.900 would fit into both those categories. Yeah. It, uh, well, obviously the, the Xeno part you,

00:41:42.080 you and I probably wouldn't have any problem with the phobia part is, you know, it's, I, and honestly,

00:41:49.940 out of these five points, the, the xenophobia to me seems the most ideologically laden

00:41:57.620 and the most spurious because, but, but I included on the list because once again,

00:42:02.960 every time I've looked into what other people are saying fascism is, it recurs without fail.

00:42:09.000 So I had to include it on the list. Yeah. It's like, we're not phobic. We're, we're not afraid

00:42:13.000 or people who have these ideas are, they're not afraid. They just prefer to be with their own

00:42:18.100 people. I mean, this is, this is ancient, the idea of having a tribe and fighting for territory

00:42:23.760 and your people. I mean, you're never going to stop that. Every other people has that. It's just

00:42:28.240 white people that don't have that anymore, you know? Yeah, that that's, well, to me, that's what's

00:42:34.540 sort of ironic. I haven't really, I guess, got to this point yet, but it's, it's also just kind of

00:42:40.780 funny that, uh, you know, that fascism can be blamed for being overly aggressive and overstepping

00:42:50.980 its bounds yet at the same time being driven by fears of other people. I mean, make up your

00:42:59.760 mind, which is it? Are fascists afraid of other people or are they crazy warmongers that will just

00:43:05.780 step in and take over? Exactly. Exactly. But, uh, more like other people are afraid of fascists.

00:43:13.000 Yeah. Fashy phobia. That's what they are. Fashy, fashy phobic.

00:43:19.680 Right. Which is supposed to generate like a second order fear of being branded as that. Like,

00:43:28.380 so we're being conditioned to be afraid of being called xenophobic. Yeah.

00:43:34.020 It's like two layers of fear there, but, um, but basically it, the, the, how it's usually

00:43:45.240 being, how xenophobia is characterized as belonging to fascism is that it, while fascism unifies,

00:43:52.180 unifies a people, it does so by forming a national identity that blames the misfortunes on some

00:43:59.780 scapegoat, supposedly some minority, uh, which supposedly leads to the sense that, which that

00:44:09.280 supposedly leads to the sense of the inherent greatness of the state or the leader. So those

00:44:16.220 are the five things I've come across. Leftists, they, they don't possess, and a lot of anti-whites,

00:44:22.460 they don't possess the understanding or have a desire for a unity of folks. So they don't understand

00:44:27.780 this idea of working together for a higher goal. A lot of times they just see fascism as,

00:44:32.580 oh, it's just slavery and force and suppression. And they're making me do this. I mean, just like

00:44:37.880 when they look at a national socialists or Mussolini, they act like everyone was just mind controlled

00:44:43.140 and only acting as a unit because there was a, this, uh, threat looming over them. They can't

00:44:49.200 understand this kind of unity and love for folk. They really can't. That's why they just always see it

00:44:55.020 as some kind of evil force. But what are some of the arguments against fascism?

00:45:01.440 Uh, okay. Well, one here is that it eliminates differences or suppresses the rights of individuals

00:45:09.500 to disagree with collective decisions. So, um, you know, if, if the fascist state agrees on some policy

00:45:19.380 or something, you as the individual, or just up the creek without a paddle to, uh, to do anything

00:45:25.380 about that. And it, it would just imperil you, uh, to speak out against it. Um, uh, my response to

00:45:36.640 that though, and it, this, this kind of ties in with what you just said, Lana, because when people,

00:45:43.020 well, I say people, but generally Marxist and leftist, but when they deride fascism and, and look

00:45:51.280 at historical examples of it, like the Italian fascists who just mentioned, they, they always act

00:45:56.140 like the, the charge is always that the, the leader is just, uh, some self-centered power hungry guy,

00:46:05.720 um, who is like faking it. Like he, like he himself doesn't have any, uh, national identity or anything

00:46:15.680 like that. Like he, he's, it, it's being interpreted through the lens of capital individualism. Like,

00:46:22.000 wait, Oh, he's just an individual, uh, concerned with his acquisitions and he's faking it, which

00:46:30.840 always, to me, creates this baffling situation of, well, how do you explain the fervor of all

00:46:39.920 the people supporting him? I mean, if, you know, if, if they're just under the thumb and oppressed,

00:46:46.500 how do you, like, are they faking it too? You know, all of their morale and enthusiasm,

00:46:51.820 all of that is just charades apparently. But, um, yeah, I've literally heard people say,

00:46:58.880 you know, like Hitler and Mussolini, they had these secret evil occult powers and they were

00:47:03.920 mind controlling people and they just go to great lengths to try and try and not understand this

00:47:10.960 unity of folk working together for a higher goal. They just don't understand it because Marxists and

00:47:15.760 our current establishment just doesn't even let people think that. So before you're saying that,

00:47:20.660 you know, a lot of people, the arguments against, against fascism is because I can't have my own view.

00:47:25.100 I can't come against a collective. Well, they're in power. They don't allow their enemies or

00:47:29.380 contradictory viewpoints to speak out either. Right. Exactly. And it's like, how do you explain

00:47:37.180 the fact that, I mean, one guy, you know, Hitler, one guy, yet he had millions of German soldiers at his

00:47:44.700 command. Um, obviously those soldiers had some vested interest in seeing Germany succeed. They, they,

00:47:56.180 they weren't just drones, uh, taking orders, uh, you know, under the thumb of the threat of death or

00:48:05.140 something like that. I mean, like you, you, you couldn't command battalions to, to, to march towards

00:48:12.200 Moscow. Um, I, I mean, there, there would just be instant mutiny at that point if they had no vested

00:48:19.960 interests, if they did not share at all that, the vision and goals of their own leader, it just

00:48:26.920 wouldn't work. Um, so, but so, so basically the, the, the conceptual rejoinder here is that that

00:48:37.580 fascism is built around a goal of some sort. And that goal is the heart and soul of the people

00:48:47.560 as a people. And it supersedes the supposed right of individuals to destroy that goal. Um,

00:48:57.740 you know, remember, I, I already laid out a scenario in which we have no reason to believe

00:49:05.280 that individuals just have various rights instilled in them metaphysically just by dint of their

00:49:14.220 existences. So their rights derived from the goal that fascism would embody. So, um, so I would say

00:49:25.960 that fascism is an effective means for achieving national ends where the, the, the, the individual

00:49:33.440 right to foil everything absolutely is a metaphysical fantasy. I mean, I mean, that, that, that's basically

00:49:41.620 the dream of the anarchist, right? Right. Where like somehow the anarchist is, um, fulfilling

00:49:50.880 God's will or some higher end, some noble cause or something by always bringing down power structures.

00:49:59.920 Yeah. I mean, I, you know, like star Wars is a classic example of that. I mean, why exactly are

00:50:07.360 the imperial forces bad? Like why? Because they have British accents and sort of, uh, arch like

00:50:15.860 Nazis or something, you know, but it's, it's just an order. It's some kind of order and Marxist

00:50:21.260 just, they hate order. They just want to be able to shit in the streets and do every degenerate

00:50:26.320 thing possible anywhere they want at all times and just get their basic income and just, you know,

00:50:30.980 masturbate till they die basically, you know? Right. And, and that hubris springs from, I think

00:50:37.540 it's a remnant of the classical liberal ideas that you just have inherent worth. But with the moment

00:50:46.640 that that doctrine is shaken, I mean, you have to think again, you know, it, because it, what they're

00:50:54.940 sort of doing is hiding behind this moral ruse that, well, even if I'm, uh, destructive to

00:51:03.140 the goals of the people, um, somehow I'm inherently justified in doing that because the moral reality

00:51:11.920 is on my side or something. But, uh, if, if there is no such moral reality and I agree with Nietzsche

00:51:19.480 on that point, I, I don't know, you know, listeners might think I'm off my rocker for thinking this,

00:51:25.080 but, um, I, I just agree with Nietzsche's dictum that there are no moral facts. So, you know, the,

00:51:35.200 the, the anarchist, the revolutionary, the, the nihilist from my point of view don't really have

00:51:43.080 any objective leg to stand on. I mean, they, they disqualify their right to existence in becoming an

00:51:50.620 enemy to the goal of the folk. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And this is why I hate when some people try and

00:51:59.120 compare the left to fascists. It's like, no, it's completely opposite. I mean, they're globalists.

00:52:04.520 They want to destroy everything. They're total degenerates. Whereas fascism would be, you know,

00:52:08.620 nationalists, they're based in biology and nature. And they're actually thinking about

00:52:12.280 what is best for the people and preserving things like the family units and letting the smarter ones

00:52:17.580 lead the society to take us to better places, you know, and really humans do thrive in, at least I do,

00:52:24.460 I've found in my life, uh, you know, having some order, some goals, some discipline. Otherwise I feel

00:52:29.700 like crap if I don't have that. Right. Yeah. You just languish and it, it just brings up all these

00:52:37.120 Camus-esque questions about the point of existence. Yeah. And people get depressed, obviously. Look at,

00:52:43.240 look at our modern society. All these people have all this weird anxiety and depression and it's like

00:52:48.020 there, there's no more order and focus and true goals anymore other than just a bunch of degenerate,

00:52:53.460 meaningless things. Yeah. And I think it's, it's hard to have any serious goals when you're

00:53:02.960 taught, you know, that what it even means to have a goal is just limited to what you are as an

00:53:11.320 individual. I mean, I think individualism breeds that depression and sense of futility. Um, because

00:53:18.200 you're, we're, we're living in a society exactly structured on limiting, uh, the efficacy of a

00:53:28.180 goal. It has to begin and end with you. And when there is some kind of group goal, it's something

00:53:33.580 stupid, like fighting for gender neutral bathrooms. Right. Yay. You know? Okay. But see, that's not a

00:53:40.220 goal. I mean, that too is nihilistic because when you say gender neutral, I mean, neuter is just the

00:53:46.620 Latin word that means neither. Oh, that's, that's not a gender that it's, it's just negating

00:53:53.920 something. Uh, so, I mean, basically we're living in a world where the only goal you're allowed to

00:54:03.920 have is to not have goals. Yeah. Yeah. They, they fight for the right to die basically, you know,

00:54:10.660 to die in these different ways. This is not even to say that it's, it's just these, you know, these

00:54:18.080 horrible, um, what, well, at least like what in this conversation have been described as like, uh,

00:54:26.800 the, the rabid anarchists, for instance, who are put in this position. It's, it's also everyone else

00:54:33.480 because there is, there is no national goal really. Yeah. So it's, it's not, you, you don't

00:54:42.520 have to be, uh, someone pushing the front lines of like a communist agenda to be wrapped up in this

00:54:51.000 situation. It's, it's practically everybody. Yeah. And then, and I mean, now they do have goals of,

00:54:58.040 uh, you know, multiculturalism and just this one global order and then what, then what happens?

00:55:06.020 Then it all just turns into a bunch of goo, right? I mean, what happens? Well, multiculturalism, it,

00:55:13.840 that sounds like it's a positive thing. Like, you know, at the prima facie level, it sounds like,

00:55:19.420 oh good, we're opening our minds and our arms and we're willing to examine the merits of,

00:55:28.040 other traditions from foreign parts of the world. But, but the logical consequence of that is you

00:55:37.460 end up indifferent to all cultures because you're, you're not allowed to set them in an order of rank

00:55:44.200 or pass any judgment on them because if you do that, oh, well you're just exercising prejudices from

00:55:51.420 your cultural heritage. So, um, the, the, the net result of this thing that ostensibly is supposed to be

00:56:00.900 positive for all cultures is just a nihilistic indifference or apathy to all of them, including yours.

00:56:09.780 Unfortunately, it's taken decades to realize that that's the effect of it.

00:56:14.820 Yeah. And then when we're, what, united under capitalism, basically, because you've got these

00:56:20.200 globalists that are pushing that, then you just have Big Macs and the same Hollywood movies

00:56:24.680 everywhere. And then that just kills all the differences anyway. Right. Then there's no

00:56:30.440 difference left. And then it's back to something nihilistic. Yeah. The thing is though, every time

00:56:37.760 there's a power vacuum, somebody is going to step in and fill it. Uh, I, I think we know who, uh, is

00:56:46.360 basically in charge of pumping degenerate means into society through, uh, Hollywood. Um, I don't think

00:56:55.260 that takes a good deal of investigation to bring into light. But, uh, anyway, I have the, the, the second

00:57:05.920 objection I have in mind is that fascism arises only as an effort to scapegoat. Now, my answer to that

00:57:20.580 would be that if that's true, like, even if it's true, which I don't even grant that it is like, I, I

00:57:27.420 don't think, uh, Spanish fascism or German nationalism or Italian, any form of it that

00:57:35.460 actually has arisen in history is just a knee jerk reaction to scapegoating. But, um, even if it were

00:57:41.700 true, that would just be a contingent truth. Um, uh, that in other words, it would just be an accident

00:57:49.420 of particular historical examples. Um, so it, it would be and remains to be quite possible for

00:57:59.020 fascism to arise, not on the basis of blame for national woes or even on the woes themselves, but

00:58:07.960 once again, on a goal, um, whose object that people would yearn for. So it would, it would have a, it's not

00:58:14.940 impossible for fascism to have that sort of positive basis, uh, and be a draw into the future

00:58:23.060 right out of the gate without any scapegoating involved. So to whatever extent, scapegoating

00:58:29.420 has been mingled in with the history of fascism. It's not necessary.

00:58:34.760 No, of course not. No, it's a, it's a system that's working for the people, for the tribe.

00:58:39.360 And it doesn't matter who's on the outside. It's, it's for that tribe. They don't need to

00:58:44.540 be blaming other people over their other tribes in order to exist. I also say that it's not,

00:58:50.060 it's not authoritarian to me when it's a system that I agree with. Then I'm, then it's, it's a,

00:58:56.620 it's a happy system to me, right? If some sort of state, uh, achieves its ends well through

00:59:03.480 scapegoating, uh, like if, if, if scapegoating can sink its teeth into fascism and, and fulfill

00:59:11.240 objectives as it were through it, that even that in itself is not necessarily a condemnation of

00:59:18.320 fascism because all that's really doing is showing that fascism is an effective form of human society

00:59:25.600 for whatever sinks its teeth into it. Yeah, exactly.

00:59:28.820 So like scapegoating, it may not work as well in a liberal society, but that's not necessarily in

00:59:38.240 favor of liberalism. That's just saying that liberalism and basically democratic republics are

00:59:45.240 clumsy and ineffectual. So, I mean, it cuts both ways. Um, it's sort of like, you know, it's trying

00:59:56.300 to, uh, have your cake and eat it too. There, you want to blame fascism for its effectiveness,

01:00:04.220 but when something proves its effectiveness, then you blame fascism for that thing. Yeah, exactly.

01:00:12.720 But, um, anyway, another one I have here is that, and I guess I've touched on this a little bit, but

01:00:18.980 that leaders in fascistic structures are aggressive or indifferent to the populace or assume control

01:00:29.780 over life and death, and that's a no-no. Um, but, uh, and once again, my response to this, which is

01:00:37.740 kind of a recurring mantra, is that it pertains to the goals of the people. That's always left out of

01:00:44.480 all these objections. They never think about human willing in the, in the structures of,

01:00:52.460 uh, the will to power in the form of a state or nation in terms of a goal that's always left out.

01:00:59.800 So, yeah, I mean, insofar as the leader that we're browbeating here is being too aggressive or

01:01:07.640 whatever, insofar as that leader is committed to the goal of the people, which by the way is not

01:01:13.440 happiness for the people, because we've already dealt with the utilitarian principle, then he

01:01:19.080 won't squander the serviceability of any segment of the populace. I mean, that would just be

01:01:24.000 impractical. It would be inefficient. Um, and the moment that the wielding of power would cease to

01:01:31.320 belong to any rationale other than its own wielding, just like the leader just becomes arbit, like just

01:01:38.200 an arbitrary power grabber, then the regime would just begin to face the threat of revolution from

01:01:46.700 within and not due to natural rights, but just because the servants will go haywire because they'll

01:01:52.740 be bereft of their figurehead at that point. They won't, they won't trust him to carry forth the

01:01:59.340 goals that they themselves, uh, have a vested interest in. Exactly. It makes perfect sense. And for us,

01:02:07.420 it's so hard to imagine that these people, they so loved Mussolini or they so loved Hitler in that

01:02:13.600 era, because we can't understand having a leader that actually looks out for our interests. We,

01:02:18.800 we haven't experienced that in our lifetime. We haven't experienced the unity of folks,

01:02:23.440 certainly not in, in America of, you know, in our lifetimes of what that would feel like and what

01:02:28.360 that system could be. I mean, imagine being in a system of, you know, people, a lot of people that

01:02:33.400 thought like you and I, and we were the nation and we were working for amazing goals. We would be out

01:02:40.500 in space. We'd be doing so many incredible things instead of fighting for gender neutral bathrooms,

01:02:45.640 you know? And it's just, I mean, I get blown away when I think about that. I mean, I, I want that.

01:02:50.540 You want that. A lot of other people want to experience that. And then you, it's kind of fishy

01:02:55.060 that the current system has spent billions of dollars of propaganda and being so anti-fascist.

01:03:00.640 They're so terrified of that, aren't they? Yeah. Uh, it, well, yeah. I mean, historical facts

01:03:10.260 always disrupt that sort of thinking. Like if, if fascism, you know, like the, the Hitler example,

01:03:19.440 how do they explain the fact that in Pennsylvania in the 1930s, uh, there was widespread support for

01:03:26.500 Hitler's regime among us citizens, but you know, because there was a heavy, uh, dramatic presence

01:03:33.660 in Pennsylvania and still is to some extent. Um, and that's right. It's more, and here's the

01:03:40.140 other thing. People say, Oh, it's racist. No, they were, they were very ethnic tribal minded. It was

01:03:46.000 more of a ethno nationalism, right? Right. Yeah. I mean, that, that is the rationale for their, uh,

01:03:54.340 support. Yeah. Italians didn't want a bunch of French people or a bunch of Russian people coming

01:03:59.140 to live there. It's ethno nationalism. So I don't understand why people say, Oh, it's,

01:04:04.160 but it's racist. It's like, well, they didn't want other white people living there either. They

01:04:07.800 wanted their own tribe living there. And it's like, you know, if we think of tribes in New Guinea or

01:04:14.420 something, if you just ask people, what if, you know, million white people just started flooding

01:04:19.360 into this new Guinea tribe and it's like, well, open your arms to diversity. They would never

01:04:23.620 support that. They would never support it. But for some reason it only works in our direction.

01:04:28.100 Right. Yeah. I mean, I, I sort of think of, you know, we, we've been tossing these terms around like

01:04:34.280 a people and a folk and a tribe. I guess, well, folk and people just literally pretty much mean the

01:04:42.120 same thing. Right. I guess I sort of see a tribe as like a successful or a people as a successful

01:04:47.920 tribe, you know, what, one that has grown out of an infantile state into a recognizable force of

01:04:57.740 power. Um, whereas a tribe, it seems to imply some sort of, uh, parochialism or something.

01:05:09.160 Running around in loincloths with spears or something.

01:05:12.360 I guess so. Yeah. I mean, not necessarily a, like a technological level, but just like a,

01:05:16.940 I sort of see a tribe as a people on the way, like a burgeoning, like something that if, if it

01:05:24.640 succeeds would become a people. Yeah. If that makes any sense. But, um, yeah, I guess the tribe

01:05:30.380 would be kind of like, uh, the people spearheading something. Right. And then it leads into something

01:05:36.060 greater. Right. And it's, I would say sent, I mean, obviously it, there's a racial component

01:05:43.940 there. Uh, and I think it's just natural that people belonging to the same ethnicity would be

01:05:51.520 predisposed to, uh, sharing the same goals. Yeah. Honestly, that's kind of a convenient segue to this

01:06:00.060 other thing that I keep running up against, which is that fascism leads to pointless militarism

01:06:07.200 and or conflict. Um, and my response to that, even though it sounds like I'm beating a dead horse

01:06:14.980 here is that that will always be the interpretation from the outside that, you know, from those who care

01:06:22.860 nothing for the goal of the people, uh, yeah, it will seem like pointlessness. Uh, it'll, it'll just

01:06:30.220 seem like arbitrary aggression, but to the people, it will not be pointless. It, in fact, anything done

01:06:36.740 for the sake of that goal will be what it means to have a point. Exactly. It's like, we're letting

01:06:44.460 the whiner on the outside, he's not being allowed in, he wants in say, stop being such a bully so I

01:06:50.160 can get in there and ruin what you're doing. Right. Yeah. And it's right. And yet, uh, I, this is an

01:07:02.000 aspect of this whole conversation I haven't really brought up yet, but really to me, it seems like

01:07:06.880 fascism is something on a gradient where to the extent that a country or something has any sort of

01:07:16.220 law and order and control and has clear boundaries set for itself, uh, both political and physical,

01:07:25.480 like having actual boundaries that who knows, maybe can be protected by God forbid, a wall.

01:07:33.820 Yeah. It's like not, not having boundaries just means you're a whore to everybody. Let's face it,

01:07:38.680 you know? Yeah. To just have weak boundaries and ill-defying goals and everything is the cost you

01:07:45.520 pay in order to appear, uh, non-arbitrary to, from the liberal point of view. But, uh, basically any

01:07:53.260 country to the extent that it has those bounds or whatever is fascistic. I mean, the, like the,

01:07:59.720 the, the, the U S seal that, uh, with the Eagle in its left talons, it's whole, it's holding a

01:08:05.180 fascist for God's sakes of 13 hours. Oh yeah. A lot of conspiracy symbolism, people point to that

01:08:11.180 all the time, but, uh, America is not fascist though. Even though maybe long ago, I don't know.

01:08:16.280 Why do you think they put that symbol in there? Um, why did they, uh, I mean, I, obviously it wasn't

01:08:22.960 to be some sort of underhanded, uh, implication for fascism because I mean, fascism is a 20th

01:08:30.180 century phenomenon. Um, but I mean, it, it's, it's a symbol for unity. I guess maybe the errors

01:08:40.380 represented the original colonies. So it's a way of saying it's 13 distinct colonies, but while being

01:08:47.000 clutched in the talons of the Eagle, it's a way of saying, but they're bound under the law and order

01:08:53.600 of the federal power, that makes sense. Um, but, uh, but to, you know, to bring it to a modern example,

01:09:02.300 what is exactly, you know, because remember this, this point was all about the arbitrary militarism

01:09:09.520 alleged against fascism. Well, what exactly is non-arbitrary, uh, at bottom and, and from a

01:09:17.700 super historical perspective of all the violence done on behalf of the state of Israel? Yeah, exactly.

01:09:24.160 Wait, what, what makes that non-arbitrary? Like if we're going to talk about pointless militarism,

01:09:29.100 well, what about that? I mean, for, for, for, for some reason that country is just by default an

01:09:40.360 exception. That's what we're always asking over here. Yes. To those who detract from fascism,

01:09:46.960 the point with the xenophobia thing is that it creates a nationalistic fervor that actually blinds

01:09:53.300 the people to the real sources of their problems by propping up scapegoats.

01:09:59.100 So you, you prop up the straw man. It's like, um, a tactic supposedly, uh, put forward by the

01:10:08.800 leaders to distract people from the, the, the source of the, the real source of their problems. Um,

01:10:16.920 but, you know, uh, so to go back to the scapegoat problem, I get to echo that rejoinder. I mean,

01:10:25.300 this pre you know, my perspective on this is that it presupposes a regime that's founded on fear and

01:10:34.160 turmoil, which, I mean, once again, those are contingent historical examples. Like it could,

01:10:40.580 it could be that, uh, fascism in the 20th century has arisen under those sorts of conditions that

01:10:47.520 conveniently let it, or we're, we're prone to setting up a scapegoat, but, uh, that seems

01:10:56.760 unnecessary to me. And the fervor, which appears wherever organization exists, um, it doesn't

01:11:06.760 become any more or less blinding when it occurs in fascism. It's just picking on fascism. It's just,

01:11:12.940 it's just being scared. It's, you're seeing all the salutes, you're seeing all the nationalistic

01:11:17.220 fervor. And because you're on the outside and you don't like it, you just accuse it of being

01:11:22.860 blinding. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that could occur when you're, even if you're a saluting Castro,

01:11:28.340 like, like, yeah. And it's also this idea that, uh, you look at these people and they love their own

01:11:34.620 with all this fervor and they're so excited and zealous. So it means right away that they,

01:11:39.480 how many times have you heard this? It means that they really hate and fear others. So

01:11:42.840 the solution to that is for them to hate themselves and to hate their own people. And then we won't

01:11:47.640 have fascism and then we'll be safe. So if you hate your own people, that that's, you're okay.

01:11:53.140 Yeah. Right. Because then, you know, you've proved yourself to the world that you were harmless and

01:11:58.680 you were enlightened or something. Uh, you, you have a global perspective, you know, and really

01:12:07.440 you, you, the cost of doing that is the substance of your spirit. Really? You just become an empty

01:12:13.640 shell. Uh, like you said, waiting around to die. Yeah. That's what I mean. The ultimate psychological

01:12:19.380 warfare when they're like conditioning you to want to turn on your own self and your own people.

01:12:25.680 I mean, wow. Yeah. That does seem to be the pathos fueling all of this. It's self-hatred,

01:12:32.180 hatred for the, for yourself, hatred for the group you belong to, hatred for the history out of what

01:12:39.460 you've come. It's, it's a pretty despicable state of affairs. Really. And it's so much conditioning and

01:12:47.520 billions of dollars of propaganda. It's like, you can't love white people. You can't have pride because

01:12:53.200 it's going to lead to mass murder. So just don't let yourself do it. Right. That's basically what

01:12:59.240 they say. That's what they teach in school. What they say on the news. Right. Well, the ironic thing

01:13:05.480 though, is evidently not being that way also leads to mass murder. So that might just be. Exactly. But

01:13:13.880 that's like, that's the mass murder that, that's the mass murder that they want. So that's okay.

01:13:18.160 Okay. We should just admit at this point. Yeah. Just admit at this point, both sides have strong

01:13:24.360 wills. Both sides are capable of violence. It's just the story of humanity, right? War and conquest

01:13:29.540 violence. It's just, you're never going to change that. Yeah, exactly. And like somehow fascism gets,

01:13:37.080 it gets scapegoated as the thing that is like the seed of evil or something. And if only we

01:13:47.320 expunged fascistic tendencies out of human history, we would finally have a hedonistic utopia

01:13:56.340 that evidently all the Marxists want. No, it, that, that's a delusion. That'll never be the case.

01:14:04.100 War is a fact of existence and it's a matter of fighting for something rather than fighting for

01:14:13.360 nothing. Yeah. And that's where a lot of nationalists say that, you know, if you allow

01:14:17.800 other nations to be nationalistic and just worry about their own, this actually will give us peace.

01:14:23.600 It's when you're trying to force all these people together and destroying sovereign nations that that

01:14:28.500 leads to more war. It's really quite easy to understand. Right. I have a, a brief, well,

01:14:36.320 like a 10 line quote about fascism, Lana, if I could read it, I, it actually came from somebody

01:14:43.200 named Marshall Ironsides. I don't really know who he is except that I took it from quora.com. I thought

01:14:50.020 it was just like a nifty, uh, formula here and just insightful. He says that, uh, fascism is more

01:14:58.660 than just an effective way to establish order and loyalty to the state by its subjects. Fascism

01:15:04.880 upholds a belief in the human spirit as its foundation. It is opposed to all forms of

01:15:11.220 materialism. It believes in creating the safest optimal environment for its people and for families.

01:15:18.700 It upholds a belief that its citizens should prosper without ostentation. Um, I'm not quite

01:15:25.920 sure what that part means, but whatever. It upholds a belief that the public good cannot be achieved by

01:15:30.520 professional politicians and their paparazzi puppets. Fascism believes that the nation should

01:15:36.360 be united, working toward common goals and free from exploitation by capitalists and communists.

01:15:44.340 It does uphold a belief in violence as one of its tools. However, so do those who seek to tear the

01:15:51.620 nations apart from without or within. You cannot combat terrorists with bad poems, bad coffee, and bad music.

01:15:59.220 It's so true. That is so true. It's just the sooner we realize that. And then I see there's some people,

01:16:06.760 you know, these cultural libertarians, but the left is intolerant. Yeah. Everyone's intolerant when

01:16:11.420 they're pushing their view, when they want their people to win, when they want their ideology to be

01:16:15.600 supreme. This is face that fact, face that reality. Let's, let's fight this war already. We're already in

01:16:21.740 it. You know, it's a different kind of war might not be, you know, guns. Well, it is for some people in some

01:16:25.940 places, but it's very much based on ideology and how you can get people to hate themselves and

01:16:31.500 destroy themselves. It's a different kind of warfare. Now it's even worse was before you can

01:16:36.320 just go on the battlefield and just fight, you know, just fight and like settle it right there.

01:16:40.880 But now it's just this long, excruciating psychological warfare. Right. Right. This battle

01:16:47.720 of like psychological attrition or something. I mean, the best way to achieve peace is to allow

01:16:55.000 a victor to emerge. I mean, that's just how it's always been. That's how you had the Pax Romana.

01:17:01.640 It didn't just fall into Rome's lap. You know, they had to have a few triumphs first.

01:17:07.840 Well, and that's, that's why I think it's good to have extremism on both sides because it speeds it up

01:17:12.560 because otherwise it's going to be slower, longer, more excruciating, you know, whereas this way we

01:17:18.120 can see the rapid change happen so fast, even in my lifetime, in my thirties, like all the things

01:17:23.340 that I've seen is like, whoa, I can't believe it's happened that fast. Imagine when we're going to be

01:17:26.980 80. What's it, what it's going to be like if this pace continues. So I don't want it to slow down. I want

01:17:32.560 it to speed up. Right. Yeah. Drive, drive that dialectic on. I mean, right. I mean, the Marxists love

01:17:40.140 talking about a dialectic. So yeah, that's what I say too. Bring it on. You know, let's, instead of

01:17:45.520 just having this moldering quasi conflict that just confuses everybody. And, you know, I mean, it,

01:17:54.040 I never quite understand. I mean, Marxism has never historically been achieved to, you know, to any

01:18:04.480 discernible level. So it's hard to even under, to understand what, like how to describe what they would

01:18:11.080 even want, like the, the, the sort of just, you know, supposedly just egalitarian, uh, classless

01:18:20.620 society. It's never existed. So it's hard to, I mean, are they even like, I guess what I'm saying is

01:18:28.380 if the conflict did escalate to the point where a side was determined, I struggle to sit here and

01:18:38.460 imagine what the world would be like if they prevailed in that structure, I mean, in that

01:18:43.540 conflict. Oh my God. Um, yeah. I mean, they, they actually, they do want a class society. They just

01:18:48.740 want all, all the losers and the people in the bottom to be on the top. Yeah. Right. On paper,

01:18:55.960 it's classless. I think, uh, I know we've been going for a while, but I think we should make a

01:18:59.600 couple of comments on if you wanted to say something about alt-right and organizing, you had

01:19:04.120 a couple other points there. Well, I have this idea, I guess I'm characterizing the emergence of

01:19:12.600 the alt-right as, uh, having begun with like wild organizing, uh, meaning I guess like analogous to

01:19:21.120 wild memes in a way where it has coalesced around the semi like-minded, um, or the appearance of

01:19:33.520 like-mindedness gathering, what seems to be mostly online, like up to this point, mostly an internet

01:19:41.400 phenomenon. Uh, so, so sort of the result of like a virtual smorgasbording, but, um, if left at that

01:19:52.860 state, I would think it would be in danger of like whatever is coalescing there being in danger of

01:20:00.020 evolving away into something unrecognizable to those who at present have the strongest conceptions of what

01:20:07.720 the alt-right should be about. Um, because I, I mean, I, I guess everybody would more or less be

01:20:14.780 in agreement that there is some haziness at this point about what exactly the alt-right is. Uh, I mean,

01:20:22.880 I, I, obviously there's a central concern about, you know, retaining European heritages and legacies

01:20:30.460 like that, that's definitely a, an underlying, uh, value, but, uh, B, it seems to me like beyond that,

01:20:38.440 it's, it's a little evanescent. Um, yeah, I, I agree. I think the alt-right is at a point here

01:20:45.160 where it needs to evolve into an, an organized group pretty quick here. Right. And to me, that

01:20:52.800 means that it has to go beyond being a wild organization into something willed. Uh, so what,

01:21:01.140 what that would entail is the need for leaders, which the, I mean, the alt-right obviously has

01:21:06.140 some leaders, uh, leaders here, meaning like those who bear the strongest conceptions of what the alt-right

01:21:12.340 ought to become that like those with the strongest ideas as for its destiny. Um, and these people

01:21:21.560 should continue, I mean, I like, I mean, I think Spencer's doing a fine job personally so far. Um,

01:21:29.480 so I would want to see him to seize ever more control over what this is. And in doing that,

01:21:37.480 give form to the gathering that has, uh, formed. And what I mean by giving form is delineating what

01:21:48.380 belongs to the alt-right, what does not belong to it, uh, what can serve, even if just temporarily,

01:21:55.940 what cannot serve at all, uh, for its goals. Um, all of which is a way of saying to dictate,

01:22:04.760 if I can say that word, what is essential for it and what, what is being selected to last. Um,

01:22:14.580 so, you know, to avoid it from just being, uh, something that just becomes a passe internet

01:22:20.460 phenomenon that everybody just chuckles at five years from now. Um, yeah, there is a need. And I

01:22:27.280 know there are a lot of people meeting in real life and I talk about this all the time. There is a need

01:22:31.920 for incognito planning, some more kind of covert plans. I think, uh, things, people need to be

01:22:40.400 infiltrating all kinds of different areas. What do you think about this? I think that you said your

01:22:45.140 line of work was, uh, in national security, right? Yeah, it actually is. I have a top secret

01:22:52.300 clearance. I've had one, um, uh, what year are we in? Twice for 12, 14 years now. My God. Um, yeah,

01:23:01.860 I can't get way much into the details of that, you know, uh, agencies that shall remain unnamed. Uh,

01:23:11.080 I, I work for, uh, I I've worked for directly and now I work for indirectly as a contractor. Um,

01:23:18.940 so I know one or two things about how espionage works and, um, how leadership works and what one

01:23:29.620 sent, you know, like just basic, uh, organization principles that the U S government uses and the

01:23:37.660 FBI, um, that wasn't a slip. I, I don't work for the FBI. So, but, uh, they're very anti-white

01:23:47.500 actually, but I've heard that there's some warring going off on a tangent here, but there is some kind

01:23:51.920 of warring. There's like half of people who are against and half are with kind of a lot of the

01:23:56.860 globalist agenda there. Yeah. I mean, sort of having an inside view on this a little bit,

01:24:03.560 I can say it's a mixed bag, just as with almost every sphere of our society. It's, uh, you, you,

01:24:12.720 you run the whole gauntlet, uh, in the government, believe it or not. Um, but I, I actually, it's funny

01:24:20.520 you mentioned incognito, um, organizing because I, that that's exactly what I think needs to happen,

01:24:29.660 not exclusively, but I think there does need to be an element of that as the alt-right strengthens

01:24:36.340 itself and continues to grow and define itself. The government has this, um, concept called need to

01:24:45.200 know. And I, I mean, I think that's just intuitive. Everybody, well, you would think everybody would

01:24:51.480 understand that. I mean, that, that it behooves, um, the leaders and the non-leaders in an organization

01:25:00.500 for, for there to be a need to know basis for what's going on, that not everything just, uh,

01:25:08.440 de facto has to be transparent across the board. There has to be, um, some opaqueness to, to the

01:25:17.520 leadership, um, that, and total transparency is why anarchists demand it. I mean, total transparency

01:25:26.200 will bring down a power structure. Um, so anyway, I, I mean, I'm imagining a coalition of leaders

01:25:33.540 burgeoning, growing, self-appointed, uh, I, I'd even say like would-be oligarchs in a sense,

01:25:41.760 um, presenting, uh, a will to power to the public in a way that would maximize recruitment.

01:25:50.780 You know, and it's interesting you say recruitment because right now I would say it's in the phase of,

01:25:55.360 uh, recruiting. I mean, there's meetups all across the country, thousands of people. There's

01:26:00.740 actually, it is, it's a growing movement that's happening very quick. That's why some people

01:26:05.080 are worried about, you know, agents infiltrating and whatnot, but a lot of these meetups are kind

01:26:10.500 of, who do you know? How can you let in? You have to be invited, kind of, we're forming a secret

01:26:15.560 society basically. And that's, that's what it's got to take, I think. And then you kind of, you see

01:26:20.680 the, the talent pool. Like I've been able to go to some of these meetups and there's some incredibly

01:26:24.920 talented people and it's about finding kind of where they fit in, in this, in this war,

01:26:30.520 where their talents could be best used. And then from there, exactly. You need some leaders,

01:26:36.060 some captains, some, uh, people that are good, you know, planning strategies and battle strategies

01:26:42.660 and kind of, I think people are finding their place. They're first having to get together in

01:26:48.300 order to do this, to be able to have these meetings. But I'd love to see that. I'd love to

01:26:51.900 see a, like a secret society of some, some of the best men getting together and like planning

01:26:57.360 infiltration, true grassroots, because a lot of us don't have huge budgets that the elites do, but

01:27:02.920 come on, there's, we've had tribal elite who have infiltrated with small numbers before, haven't we?

01:27:09.160 Yeah. I mean, I, I think, I mean, it's, once again, if you're from the outside hearing this,

01:27:14.440 it's going to sound incredibly sinister, what we're talking about. But, but I mean, to me,

01:27:18.940 it's just the facts of organizing. I mean, if you're serious about, if you, if you have this

01:27:24.400 organization you're, uh, invested in, that's just how it has to happen. And I, I, I feel that,

01:27:31.700 uh, you know, the need to know thing and the, uh, gathering people, the meetups and everything.

01:27:38.580 I, I think what's happening there is it's like an inchoate people, uh, a new folk as it were is

01:27:46.960 emerge, would emerge from that. Um, but I, I don't, I mean, without these ostensibly sinister

01:27:56.060 strategies, uh, it, it would fall apart. I mean, it just, I don't, I, I don't think there would be

01:28:02.260 any hope for it, you know, without such tactics. Oh, exactly. Cause it would be infiltrated by the

01:28:07.480 other side. I mean, come on. Yeah. And it's true. A lot of this movement in America, I almost see

01:28:13.220 like long, long way down the road as America's demographics really change. I see this element

01:28:19.180 that's kind of, we're in the underground right now, we're a counterculture, but I almost see it

01:28:23.640 emerging as a new nation that's going to separate, you know, cause America is not going to ever be

01:28:30.080 the same. So it might even be some kind of a secessionist type movement or some other kind of

01:28:36.720 thing, but that has to be done legally, politically. That means you need troops and all those positions

01:28:40.880 to help make those things happen. Right. Yeah. I I'd like to, I mean, I guess like a meta

01:28:47.980 objective that I'm trying to achieve here is it was something I mentioned earlier, which is to

01:28:54.680 diffuse the stigma of fascism, because if, if we can make it seem less like the boogeyman that the

01:29:02.660 leftists have made it, then it would become more acceptable at the mainstream level. And I mean,

01:29:09.820 who knows, maybe it's not inconceivable for there to be a fascist party that's taken seriously.

01:29:17.920 That actually stands a chance of winning the white house one day.

01:29:22.660 Yeah. Because, you know, now I'm, I'm meeting people who aren't Europeans who are actually

01:29:28.340 supporting the alt-right because they see that it's actually a movement that could be good for

01:29:33.200 them in the long run too. And I, and I agree with that. I think that our movement, because Marxists

01:29:40.240 are just so destroying everything. They're just, they're just going to ruin everything, ruin the

01:29:44.520 world if we don't stop them. And there's people that realize that this, this is a war. This is

01:29:48.380 serious. I mean, this is happening and we have to do something. And I think that there's even other

01:29:52.480 races who are people starting to back up the alt-right. I've been meeting them and they're like,

01:29:57.240 yeah, I see how this is going to benefit our people and my people in the end too.

01:30:02.420 Yeah, I have, uh, and this isn't in my notes or anything. I have, uh, I, I guess like the whole

01:30:09.580 issue of race. Um, I don't even know if I should get into that. Uh, like, I, I feel like our situation

01:30:18.980 in America is different from like, say, uh, the, the golden ones, uh, situation in Sweden where,

01:30:29.160 you know, Sweden has a longstanding history, um, where there's, you know, for, uh, for centuries,

01:30:39.660 the, the, the state overlapped with an, with an ethnicity.

01:30:44.660 That's right. I mean, this is different. The solutions, solutions for America would be much

01:30:50.020 different than solutions for Europe. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. I, well,

01:30:55.680 yeah. Um, I'm just, I, I guess I'm just saying it's, it's going to be trickier to work out particular

01:31:03.980 policies in America, given, um, that most of its history has been, uh, a melting pot for, for just

01:31:16.140 wave after wave of immigration. You know, I mean, it, its institutions are obviously European,

01:31:22.760 but it's demographic past, um, is by and large quite mixed. Uh, at least, at least it was European,

01:31:33.440 but yeah, but now the, the wave of immigration that's coming in is, is not European. It was a

01:31:39.060 European melting pot. And that's one thing I always look at America, look and look at what came,

01:31:44.600 even though it was Europeans and it was great for a time, then what happened? It turned into exactly

01:31:49.980 this individualistic thing. It turned into burgers and movies and capitalism and materialism because

01:31:56.660 we were uprooted and not touched, not no longer connected to our tribe. So it became something

01:32:02.020 really just blah and yucky and easy to infiltrate. And now that's what's happened.

01:32:07.600 Yeah. And it, it, it just seems like we're in this weird interim period of,

01:32:14.180 I don't even know how to explain it. Just, uh, where all cultural identity and racial identity is,

01:32:22.700 uh, just being blurred and eradicated. Um, I would like to think some new sort of identities

01:32:30.440 emerging out of that. But once again, I think if it would take something like fascism to make that

01:32:39.720 happen, uh, there's always resistance and there's always rebellion. And, and here's,

01:32:44.500 here's the thing. I think, uh, people say, Oh, people have always mixed and that's true organically,

01:32:49.580 but not at this scale. Cause now we're dealing with billions of dollars of propaganda aimed at white

01:32:54.120 people to, you know, mix yourselves out. It's for the sake of global peace and one world. And so

01:33:00.780 it's a good thing. I think if there wasn't all this propaganda aimed on it, as many people wouldn't

01:33:05.200 be doing this, you know, but there's always going to be a resistance to it when the system is pushing

01:33:09.900 this kind of stuff, there's always going to be people who are going to go the complete opposite.

01:33:13.460 I think we'll probably see people getting so hardcore about like who they have kids with.

01:33:18.020 They'll be like, no, I want to do, can I see your DNA just, you know, my husband and I joke around

01:33:22.640 about this all the time, but that's where it might be going for a certain sector of people who are,

01:33:27.160 who want, or will be diehards to preserve what they have.

01:33:31.020 Yeah. Yeah. I can see it going that way. Um, I guess I kind of view things and I guess this

01:33:38.600 wouldn't be that much of a surprise given the, the, the book that I'm increasingly becoming

01:33:44.240 infamous for perhaps, uh, uh, but I, I guess I look at things from a eugenics point of view

01:33:52.080 often. And, uh, I, I guess I have this tendency, uh, and I guess this is more relevant to, uh,

01:34:05.080 our American situation here, but, um, short of trying to unwind the clock and, uh,

01:34:17.140 purify it on the, you know, the, the, the populace on, uh, race, well, you on European

01:34:24.580 rounds, it seems to me like if we had some sort of national goal with, with standards in place

01:34:33.100 for, uh, winnowing the, the populace and just dealing with the genetic material that we already

01:34:41.480 have, uh, and just sort of saying, okay, right now is T zero and we're, we're, we're rather than

01:34:51.900 just having the, the reckless breeding, um, that we, I mean, I, I, I honestly, I think

01:35:00.540 reproductive practices and the, the demand to have libertine reproductive practices is

01:35:08.100 pretty much at the heart of the liberal agenda. Yeah. Oh yeah. That like that, that's the,

01:35:14.460 the inner sanctum that you're not allowed to touch. Like if you, if you want to be branded a fascist,

01:35:20.200 you tell somebody who or who they cannot, uh, breed with. Like that's, I kind of feel like that's

01:35:28.040 at the heart of all of this, honestly. Well, it's funny because they, they would, they have all

01:35:31.960 these ideas of national socialists and they wanted to kill all the blonde and blue eyed people, which

01:35:36.420 is all garbage. It's not even true, but they, they always make fun of the idea of, oh, they wanted to

01:35:41.600 have some kind of master race or whatever. And this, all these twisted, contorted views of that,

01:35:46.440 that aren't accurate, of course. But now that they're trying to show that this, uh, this kind of

01:35:51.160 blended, uh, Brazilian human, uh, this former European blended out with five other races is

01:35:57.760 like, that's the master race. And that's okay to say it. Right. As long as it's not white and

01:36:02.860 European, it's okay to say that that's the new master race. Yeah. Right. Right. So it's just a

01:36:08.740 double standard at work. I mean, you, you, you can talk about these things so long as the European

01:36:14.420 gets the short end of the stick. Exactly. Um, yeah, exactly. Uh, also I wanted to ask you one,

01:36:22.340 one more thing. I know we've been going a while, but the idea of, you know, alt-right being a big,

01:36:26.900 big tent. And I think it's been good to kind of filter out and recruit people to take them to the

01:36:31.980 next level. I kind of see it as a big recruitment center, but, uh, what do you think about centristism?

01:36:37.900 Oh, right. Well, okay. Let, let me, uh, that ties in. You, you, you had asked like

01:36:46.480 in an email to me a lot about the, the concern about the pendulum swing. Uh, you know, because

01:36:54.320 if the alt-right has this momentum going, what, what can we do to prevent it from just lapsing back

01:37:01.680 into the same political polls that we've already had for decades. And that's a tough one. I mean,

01:37:12.560 I, I had to rack, you know, but it's, it's not as if I only have begun to think about it, uh,

01:37:19.040 because of that nudging, but basically it seems to me that is at the heart of what the new oligarchs,

01:37:28.580 I would call them have to do, which would be to sufficiently distinguish, uh, that which passes

01:37:37.460 for both left and right today, uh, to, you know, so as to prevent what is essentially dialectically

01:37:46.860 related to the opposition of political theories. Uh, so in order to, for it to retain its power,

01:37:54.260 the alt-right would have to be diligent in its efforts to stand as a synthesis over and above

01:38:01.180 left and right. And so what that means is, well, what, one thing it definitely does not mean

01:38:08.920 is a movement towards centrism. That's not what I'm talking about. I mean, centrism is merely reactionary,

01:38:18.140 uh, it, it, it, it, it's a lame, a feat bid to diffuse that dialectical tension by pretending

01:38:27.340 some sort of reconciliation. It's the path of cowards, you know, and that's why I see some

01:38:31.120 of these classical liberals are just cowards. They're afraid to take a hard stance in either

01:38:35.220 way. Right. And it, it, it may appear to be this higher position or something, but that it's,

01:38:43.900 it's really just the result of cherry picking principles from both sides just in order to

01:38:49.640 avoid conflict. Yeah. I want to be friends with everyone, right? Yeah. It's, it's easier because

01:38:55.140 people, more people like me that way. That's what it's about. It's the easier path. Yeah. And it

01:39:00.880 fuels what I would consider just a petty bourgeois attitude that it, while, you know, may be good for

01:39:10.320 marketplace, uh, values, um, is not good for anybody who has anything more serious in mind for human

01:39:19.180 destiny. Yeah, exactly. Um, but so I, my idea here is that as a synthesis over and above left and right,

01:39:30.520 it would be in much less danger of just swinging back to either left or right. Um, and that the leaders

01:39:39.960 is, uh, once, uh, once that, uh, synthesis is formulated, it would be their task to safeguard

01:39:48.900 that body, um, against becoming what is antithetic to what they've created, uh, which would be in

01:39:58.320 danger of lapsing and dissipating at that point. So the, uh, the, the, the alt-right as a new position,

01:40:04.520 if it truly is an alternative to right. And I would say, and to the left, um, it would have to

01:40:13.180 stand forth in a way that presents itself in contrast to what it's evolved out of. So that

01:40:20.760 brings me to the point of the, you, the need, uh, I almost said usefulness, but really at that point,

01:40:28.660 it would become more of a need to develop some sort of regime identifying culture. So remember

01:40:36.760 in the, in our first interview, Lana, I said, Oh, we can't let fascism just becoming, become a fashion

01:40:42.860 show. Um, I, I still hold to that, but what, what I didn't mean by that is that fashion, so to speak,

01:40:52.380 is irrelevant. I mean, you mean you don't want it just to be a trend or it's here today and gone

01:40:58.640 tomorrow. We want it to stick. Right. But what, what I didn't mean to say is that there's no need

01:41:05.920 for any ostentation or outward display, uh, with like one thing that would bolster the hegemony of

01:41:15.740 the alt-right would be to have our own culture, like our own, uh, forms of culture, uh, pageantry,

01:41:26.100 iconography, arts, the music. And that's been happening. That's been taking shape organically.

01:41:31.240 It's, it's exciting to see that. Yeah. Something that when you see it, it's just obvious that it,

01:41:37.440 uh, signifies what the alt-right is about, you know, symbols, uh, and, and in doing that,

01:41:44.940 the one side effect of having our own subculture like that is you're not wasting away and contributing

01:41:54.640 to the liberal culture. Uh, the, the, language cultivation, uh, would, would be another big one.

01:42:03.120 Um, basically propaganda, propaganda in all forms. I, I mean, I, that word is not necessarily a bad

01:42:11.680 thing. It just means to propagate our own cultural elements. It doesn't mean deception or anything.

01:42:19.300 Exactly. Yeah, of course. Um, so, uh, in a way it's weaving a new spell, uh, in the way that culture

01:42:32.000 does, uh, it's the most, it's the most powerful weapon there is. And the other side has known that

01:42:39.180 and they've used it for sure. Right. So I, you know, I, I would see it, uh, yeah, right. I mean,

01:42:46.300 it, it, it's effective for them. I mean, we should fight fire with fire and it would, but, but with the

01:42:52.840 difference though, is that remember, I mean, they're, they're using cultural forms basically

01:42:59.580 for nihilistic ends, but we would be using it to, for the creation of a new world. Exactly. And

01:43:08.980 that's, that's where they're going to lose. That is where we're going to win and kick their ass

01:43:13.140 for sure. Because we actually have something to offer. We actually have the, the edifying

01:43:18.120 experience, the mystical experience, the, the journey and the, you know, the, the liberating

01:43:23.400 aspect of it. They don't, they just have death and depression at the end of theirs. Yeah. I mean,

01:43:28.560 they, they, they're basically predicated on a disdain for what's higher. Whereas what we would be

01:43:33.760 about is a love for what's higher, to excel, to go beyond, to resent ressentiment, which is the

01:43:42.800 driving pathos of the slave morality. Um, yeah, see, it's exciting. Just talking about it gets

01:43:49.700 like, yeah, let's go, let's do it. It's exciting. It's inspiring. See, and when you have something to

01:43:54.620 inspire people, that's where you're going to win. I hope so. It's, it seems like the, the degenerate,

01:44:02.520 uh, aspect of humanity seems quite, uh, inspired, so to speak, to spread nihilism as far and wide as

01:44:12.420 they can. But fortunately we're not all that way. Some of us still have a, a spirit for growth, uh,

01:44:19.060 and to create and to, and to drive ahead. We, some of us want to take humanity by the reins and

01:44:26.200 do something, but make a human destiny out of the, the, the human experience, not just negate

01:44:32.860 everything, level everything, um, diffuse everything. There's always been more losers than winners. So

01:44:39.080 this is probably, you know, our ancestors long ago probably had the same conversation in a, in a

01:44:43.880 different way, uh, battling it in a different way. But, but Seth, I want to thank you for your

01:44:48.900 time today. It's been, it's been excellent. I've really enjoyed it and be sure to tell everyone

01:44:53.700 how they can pick up the glorious path and any other details you wanted to share.

01:44:58.220 Yeah, sure. Uh, it's, I, our preferred way to attain the book would be through our, our website,

01:45:05.360 which is Airsterworks.com. O-E-R-S-T-R-A.com. And, uh, or it is also available on Amazon and there's,

01:45:19.040 there's an ebook version, which you can find the link for on the website, or you could just go to

01:45:24.740 Smashwords directly. And, uh, there's also an audio book soon to be underway because a lot of people

01:45:32.220 have asked about that. That's good. Yeah. That, that, that would be good. Exactly. All right.

01:45:35.940 Well, thank you, Seth. I appreciate it. Yeah, no problem. Talk again, Lana. On the positive side,

01:45:41.600 egalitarians are only getting weaker as we are becoming stronger. In the long term, we will win

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01:46:17.560 Have a great night.

01:46:31.780 Bye-bye.

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01:46:55.940 Thank you.

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Radio 3Fourteen - December 05, 2016

Egalitarianism vs Aristocratic Values _ Aspects of Fascism

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