Nationalism_ Keeping It Simple
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 2 minutes
Words per Minute
175.71259
Summary
On this episode of the Red Ice Radio Network's Weekend Warrior, host Henrik Bergman talks with the young and talented State of Nation, a YouTube channel where he covers topics pertaining to European identity, culture, and survival. In this episode, we talk about how he came to identify as a nationalist, how he got started with his YouTube channel, and what it means to be a nationalist in the 21st century.
Transcript
00:00:30.000
This is Radio 314 on the Red Ice Radio Network.
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Henrik and I talk about the latest news, events, and whatever else we feel like.
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We do release short snippets of a few segments, but not the full show.
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So if you're a member, log into redicemembers.com on Saturdays at 5 p.m. Eastern.
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We also have a private chat enabled for our members.
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Also, we will be live streaming from both the Republican and Democratic conventions.
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We need volunteers who can help film, provide security, be correspondents, and those who
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So if you live in Cleveland, Ohio, or Philadelphia, please get in touch with me.
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My guest today is the young and talented State of Nation.
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That's the name of his YouTube channel where he covers topics pertaining to European identity,
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His most popular video was called Nationalism in 90 Seconds.
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We'll talk about some topics he thinks are mistakenly intertwined with the concept of
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nationalism and counterproductive strategies that could be cut out when spreading the nationalist
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What is the most effective, best way to win over more people and stop preaching to the choir?
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This and much more with State of Nation up next.
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I want to know, how's the refugee invasion in Italy these days?
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To be honest, okay, so I'm in the very south of Italy, a place called Bari, and there's
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Actually, very recently, an English Islamist was arrested here on charges of terror.
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But in terms of refugees and the immigrant situation here, Bari is incredibly homogenous,
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if you can call any southern Italian city homogenous, that is.
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But people here that aren't Italian, and by extension I mean people here that aren't European,
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I think the demography here is 2% non-Italian, people that are residents here.
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So really, I'm living in a place that is very incubated from these problems.
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And are they really infected with liberalism and PC, or are they more lay back?
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No, on that note, though, are you familiar with Casa Pound?
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In Italy, Casa Pound is a neo-fascist organization in Italy.
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Very, very Italian, a thoroughly Italian organization, but they are basically the premier
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They're able to mobilize easily 1,000 students and things like that.
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They've done a very good job of mobilizing student populations.
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Casa Pound have actually recently opened headquarters here in Bari, and I'm in very close relations
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Yeah, I've been trying to reach out to people in Italy, you know, wanted to talk about their
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fascist past and, you know, kind of get a different spin on it, but it's hard because
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I mean, do you find a lot of people that speak English there?
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No, I kind of go to social groups and swim from group to group, par la inglese, par la
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Yeah, it's very difficult to find English speakers here, but there are enough to get by.
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And to be honest, I should be less lazy and integrate and learn the language.
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It's so hard, though, because everyone just, everyone speaks English in Europe now.
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You know, I had that in Sweden, you know, I married a Swede, I want to practice my Swedish,
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and then everyone else wants to speak English with me all the time, so then it just, I don't
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And the Swedes speak English better than most English people, so what's the point?
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So I have to ask, how did you come to identify as a nationalist?
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I was about 17, so it was 2009 in England, and things were ballooning with the BNP.
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Prior to this, I was an Arden, open borders, for all intents and purposes, Marxist, really.
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Yeah, I wouldn't have put that label on it myself if asked, but looking back on it, that's
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And I remember my best friend at the time was a gay fella who was also Malaysian, and
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So I used to get in common arguments with him, and eventually I conceived that, okay,
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if you believe in the nation state, then your best option is the BNP, otherwise what is
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the point in the nation state without immigration controls, etc.
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But anyway, the time came when Nick Griffin was to appear on Question Time, and this was
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This was the first time any nationalist figurehead had been given a platform on Question Time,
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I watched this with a bellicose attitude to Griffin.
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To be honest, I didn't know much about him, but from what I'd heard, I didn't like him.
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And so I watched it to see him get trounced, basically.
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He gave an absolutely terrible performance in my mind.
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But watching the way that he was treated by all of the establishment politicians, it instantly
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And they completely changed the format of the show.
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The audience was invariably incredibly hostile to him.
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And I thought, on that basis alone, I don't trust any of these politicians, so why should
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I was never taken in with the party themselves, but through that I discovered David Duke.
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And from there, I discovered the European Alternative Right, or the European New Right, I think
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was the name of the movement, with Alain de Benoist and people like that.
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So do you think a lot of people in your generation are going to be like you?
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They're going to wake up and say, yeah, nationalism is the way.
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Not unless nationalism changes itself quite considerably.
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Um, these progressions with the alt-right, which have happened very, very recently, are incredibly
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But the problem is, is that the battle they're fighting is, it's too weighed heavily against
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Anyone with status in the UK, with cultural capital, with, um, who has any, any sort of
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status in, in the society, so middle class, whites, university educated, the default for
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them is going to be incredibly hostile because they'll have gone to university.
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They'll have made friends with a hugely diverse group of people.
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And now, of course, that's not to say that nationalism as a prerequisite denies you the
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ability to make friends with people from a variety of backgrounds, but it can make things
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Also, the people that we need to reach are the people that are distanced from the problems
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And so it's, again, it's, it's very hard for you to show people these issues and for
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them to have any sort of visceral gut attachment to them.
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It seems like the, the people that are easiest to recruit are the ones that live in diverse
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areas and have had to deal with some problems, right?
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And it's, it's kind of a vicious circle because I don't mean it's an elite in, in an elitist
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way, I really don't, but the people that are having to live in these diverse areas tend
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They tend to be people that aren't able to articulate themselves in ways that are considered
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decent, especially when expressing these issues.
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And that further alienates more middle-class whites from identifying with nationalism,
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I was saying, where's the natural aristocracy that's a, that's more nationalist based.
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No, but the aristocracy is still race-based and it is still race-based.
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I did a video on, on white privilege that kind of goes into this a little bit because
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one way that I try to deal with this narrative of white privilege isn't by denying white privilege.
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It's instead about talking, what do you mean by white privilege?
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Because the idea of white privilege in and of itself has to posit an invariable white identity.
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When actually it's not all white people that benefit from white privilege.
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Of course, a corporate executive has a lot more privilege than a neo-Nazi skinhead, for example.
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I'm going to sound a little bit like an intersectional feminist here, but the point is, is that white privilege is only really accorded to you if you deny your whiteness.
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The moment your whiteness becomes explicit, the moment you say, I am white, I'm going to politically mobilize as white, you lose that privilege and you become a racist, you become something else.
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So we still do have a race-based aristocracy and these people know what they're doing.
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In the old right, we refer to them as everyone knows as virtue signalers and they're doing it to record themselves with social status.
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And that status in itself is, is a racial identity, whether they want to admit it or not.
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Well, you did this great video, nationalism in 90 seconds.
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I think I cut off about seven seconds in the beginning, but let me play it here.
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Thousands of ethnicities, over 6,000 languages, over 4,000 religions and every multiplicity in between.
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Humans are a diverse species that have found innumerable ways to live and love, fight and function.
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Nationalism recognizes that each one of these groups is special.
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Nationalism recognizes the disasters of colonialism and the perils of globalization.
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Nationalism stands against assimilation that contributes to the ongoing destruction of the earth's rich diversity.
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In general, people gravitate to those like their own.
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People support interests and policies of benefit to themselves.
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Different groups vote for policies to help them, creating demographic enmity.
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Nationalism is about creating positive environments to suit the needs of the group.
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Whether we be Australian aboriginals, Palestinians, Indian nationalists, Native Americans, Englishmen, Israelis, black South Africans, Afrikaan Boers.
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Our culture is not something to relegate to the museum for future generations.
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I would also add, too, that people always think that a nation is just government, right?
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Well, that's why I chose the name state of nation.
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It can be an emotional experience, a state of happiness, a state of sadness, etc.
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So it's trying to differentiate between that conception that people have.
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A nation is a self-identified ethnic group, I think, to keep it as simple as possible.
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So I got to talk about this because a lot of people have these major misconceptions when you say nationalism, right?
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They always think Nazis right away or genociding other groups.
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Well, the idea of genocide is an interesting one.
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Because nationalism, by its definition, in itself negates the prospect of genocide.
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Now, I'm going to probably disagree with many people in saying this.
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Because many people see cultural relativism as something that is hostile to nationalism or hostile to the alternative right.
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But I think it's actually an integral part of it.
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I think any nationalist that is supremacist or believes that their country or their society is better than another,
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I think that belief in and of itself kind of requires a colonialist predisposition.
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Because if you do genuinely believe that your society is the best,
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then surely it's a moral thing to try and colonize other groups and try and inculcate other groups in your cultural ways.
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That was definitely not a product of nationalism.
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Cultural relativism is the belief that every group, every culture has a value in and of itself
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and therefore deserves the right of protection.
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Anything else you add to nationalism is your personal political qualms.
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It has nothing to do with nationalism, in essence, I don't think.
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I was spying on some of the comments on your videos and you responded to someone and you said,
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I hate it when people compound nationalism with other irrelevant shit, which I thought was kind of funny.
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Yeah, people often compound nationalism with issues related to, well, anything.
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Gender issues, of course, issues relating to Judaism.
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These can be obstacles, potentially, to nationalism.
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Not necessarily, but potentially they can be obstacles.
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And therefore, limited talk should maybe be granted to them.
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We are already in a position where our beliefs aren't exactly greeted amorously by the majority of people.
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The last thing we want to do is attach to that already low status belief is compound it with other beliefs
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So already, as it stands, a belief in lowering immigration or stopping immigration,
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regardless of how many people agree with it, is seen as a low status belief.
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Coupling that with homophobia, coupling that with other things as well, isn't really going to help us.
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I think Jared Taylor was questioned quite a long time ago on why he doesn't talk about the Jews very much.
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I think he said this at a London forum meeting in England.
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And he replied back saying, I can only afford to be a quack on one issue.
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It's that they're tangents that at this point aren't important,
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especially with something like homosexuality, for example.
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When we're facing complete demographic annihilation,
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the last thing I'm honestly caring about is who people are having sex with, frankly.
00:15:27.540
Yeah, I mean, does nationalism have to be right-wing?
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Because I think I told you in a note, there's also a left-wing, or alt-left, that's slowly forming.
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I don't think, I don't really know what right-wing and left-wing mean.
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But in any case, right and left have become identity categories that people ascribe to themselves when they act politically.
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And as a result of that, it's quite hard to change how people see themselves.
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It's quite hard to make a left-wing person then come to identify as right.
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I think the best tool is to reframe the language that you use,
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or just avoid conversations that mention right and left-wing oppositions.
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Obviously, nationalism doesn't have to be left-wing or right-wing.
00:16:14.160
Nationalists, frankly, should stop squabbling about irrelevant shit, again, about left and right,
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because it's not important to us, not at this point, I don't think.
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How do you see that colliding with nationalism?
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I know liberalism in America is different than, you know, England and everywhere else.
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Yeah, if I'm talking about, what liberalism are you referring to?
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Are you referring to classical liberalism, or are you referring to Democrat liberalism?
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You know, multiculturalism, equality, all of that nonsense.
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Okay, well, it depends, because one is kind of an outgrowth of the other, I think.
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Talking about, because classical liberalism in and of itself, I don't think can really deny mass immigration.
00:17:02.320
I think if you take a classical liberal stance, in and of its, it is eventually going to lead to an Americanized liberalism.
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If you believe in the equality of all people, in the universality of the category of human, that everyone is a rational human being, able to harness their agency in a capitalist world, I think on that basis, one is necessarily going to stem from the other.
00:17:26.960
Because really, I mean, it's really coming down to globalists versus nationalists.
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And when I look at liberals and a lot of leftists in Europe and America, they're globalists, right?
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And no one ever talks about the negative side of globalization and universal thinking, do they?
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And people tend to assume that universal thinking is a positive thing.
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The big contradiction here is universal thinking coupled with globalism, because universal thinking applied universally undermines itself.
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The only universal that we really have in the world is difference.
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And as a result, people are always going to behave differently in a society.
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And that's going to necessarily result in different outcomes.
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Globalism, as a result, by definition, is going to result in mass inequality.
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This doesn't necessarily have to be due to racial distinctions.
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But when you have a mass of different cultures living together under one nation state, as globalism would support,
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different cultures are going to, as I said, behave differently.
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Some cultures are going to put huge stress on the accumulation of wealth.
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Other cultures are going to put huge stress on familial affiliation, on religion, and all these different things.
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And as a result of that, wealth inequality is an inevitable part of that.
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You can either embrace that wealth inequality and say, okay, it's just a side effect.
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But, of course, that is going to give rise to certain objections by certain groups that are going to be suffering from that.
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Or you can try and eliminate those differences.
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Yeah, you did a great video about resisting assimilation, which had a lot of good meaty stuff in there.
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And you basically explain how liberalism, it is supremacist, right?
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And, I mean, they're obsessed with making everyone the same, aren't they?
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Capitalism has to necessarily commodify things.
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It's a critique of capitalism coupled with liberalism.
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It stems back to the European Enlightenment, the belief that, again, in universals, that's where the belief in universals come from.
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The disinterested accumulation of wealth that I've mentioned before.
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You need to believe, if you are going to live in a capitalist society, you need to believe that everyone is essentially the same.
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Otherwise, you are essentially saying mass inequality is a good thing.
00:20:09.060
I think if you want to live in a society that values sameness, you have to be in a racially or culturally, linguistically homogenous society.
00:20:18.280
Again, it's just a very common contradiction that people don't seem to analyze that much.
00:20:23.900
You're explaining basically the desire for assimilation or forcing assimilation is actually creating extremism, right?
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They're resisting to melting into that pot of sameness, right?
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Exactly, because people don't want to be the same.
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People have cultural identities that they want to keep.
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The existence of indigenous tribes still today is complete proof of that.
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The existence or the upsurge of Islamism is proof of that.
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People are not interested in your nine-to-five work ethic.
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And it's your duty to understand that and to admit to yourself that, okay, if you live in a centralized nation state with all of these different peoples, you're going to get conflict.
00:21:07.220
Yeah, you cannot live in a society like that and escape that.
00:21:15.420
I also hear, too, that people think just because now we can buy things from all over the world, we can go online, we can talk to people everywhere, travel anywhere, that we should also be able to just migrate and live wherever we want.
00:21:28.400
Well, there are so many aspects of globalization that I absolutely adore, and it really has hit home to me, especially since living in Italy, living in southern Italy.
00:21:40.720
I can't get the food that I want to eat anywhere, Lana.
00:21:45.480
If I want a curry, for example, I can't get it here.
00:21:54.960
But in terms of the people, people need to understand that people are not economic units.
00:22:02.960
People don't live on their own without enacting any sort of political change or voicing any upsets, especially if you're in a democracy.
00:22:13.480
All I've said, couple it with democracy, and democracy essentially becomes a battle of demography.
00:22:18.580
Different ethnic groups squabbling to try and get their share of the nation's dividend.
00:22:27.880
Okay, this is a very common retort that liberals always say to immigration, and it's what the majority of my English friends say.
00:22:36.640
If I mention to them, for example, London is now 40% white British, does that bother you?
00:22:49.320
But at the same time, telling them that this is a negative thing is talking Greek.
00:22:53.980
They have no idea of what the consequences of this are.
00:23:01.500
The question, the very question of why does this matter, is in and of itself a product of their culture.
00:23:07.200
The fact that they are even thinking to say, our demographics don't matter, is the result of the beliefs of their ancestors, is the result of the very specific ideological trends that have created our societies.
00:23:19.180
And it does matter because you're asking the question, why does it matter?
00:23:23.160
As soon as white people become minorities, permanent minorities in these places, very small minorities, no one will be asking the why does it matter question anymore.
00:23:31.800
All other groups will be trying to maintain their hegemony.
00:23:35.940
White people really were the last people to think about race.
00:23:38.660
I mean, I didn't think about it my whole life up until really a few years ago.
00:23:43.420
I mean, seriously, because once you analyze the news and all the propaganda, I started saying, wow, everything is anti-white.
00:23:49.620
So it kind of forced me to get into the question of race.
00:23:55.040
Because maybe some other people, just that switch hasn't flipped.
00:23:58.120
It hasn't dawned on them yet, you know, because I see a lot of people last couple of years, it's just dawned on them.
00:24:02.540
And there's been just floods of people coming in and waking up to what's going on.
00:24:06.800
Yeah, I think the most important thing for many nationalists to remember, because when I was young and I first got involved in nationalism, I was a man on a mission.
00:24:21.520
But I think what is helpful for all nationalists to remember, to remember that when they were born and when they were young and when they were teenagers, most likely, perhaps even young adults, they did not share these beliefs.
00:24:33.920
And if someone mentioned these beliefs to them, they would feel a sort of visceral disgust.
00:24:39.740
I remember, this again comes back to the time that Nick Griffin was on Question Time.
00:24:44.640
There was a Facebook group at the time that wanted to ban Nick Griffin from Question Time.
00:24:49.000
And I was just perusing it, seeing what they were saying, seeing what the fuss was about this guy.
00:24:54.520
And they had quotes from Nick Griffin on the side, on the About section.
00:24:59.260
And one of them was Nick Griffin talking about interracial marriage or something like that.
00:25:04.200
And he was saying that it's probably not beneficial for either party.
00:25:11.000
And I remember reading that and feeling a really visceral disgust and thinking, how dare this man say this?
00:25:17.920
And now I look back on a question like that and I think, yeah, it's probably true.
00:25:24.980
It's a huge taboo in Western societies to even broach something like that.
00:25:29.920
So I think most people recognize certain differences.
00:25:36.080
Most people do recognize certain differences in behavior.
00:25:39.320
Most would say that this is due to culture rather than genetic predisposition.
00:25:45.600
And regardless of what the cause is, it doesn't really matter.
00:25:52.760
I don't think the route for nationalism is going to be in recognizing differences and recognizing the issue of race.
00:26:00.580
I think the only way nationalism is really going to get a segue is about in belief in yourself, belief in your own culture, and just the recognition that it's something beautiful and worth preserving.
00:26:18.220
To take the example of Casa Pound in Italy, I've gotten many heated discussions with people in Casa Pound over the topic of race, asking them, you know, do they care about it?
00:26:31.620
A lot of them find it a completely irrelevant topic.
00:26:35.080
Because the fact is most people that are not ethnically Italian aren't going to be joining Casa Pound anyway.
00:26:41.440
And it's more of a movement for empowering the indigenous Italians rather than being against the non-indigenous.
00:26:51.220
Where it currently stands in America, where it currently stands in England, mass deportations are not going to be occurring anytime soon.
00:26:58.760
These people are in our societies, whether we like it or not.
00:27:06.540
The best thing you can do is build networks and stick by your own.
00:27:10.700
Yeah, it's got to be one of those things where we have to be so convicted of what we believe and who we are and love our culture and our people so much that it doesn't matter what the laws are because you're internally convicted of it, right?
00:27:23.220
So even if the borders were wide open and they throw whatever culture at us, we're firm in who we are and we don't fall susceptible to it, right?
00:27:32.280
And it pains me to say this, but a fantastic example of that is the Jews.
00:27:38.480
And despite the fact that they have not had a nation state until relatively recently, they've still been able to maintain group identity, group loyalty, and a very intense sense of ethnic pride in who they are.
00:27:49.740
I think, too, as soon as you start saying, like if people talk about race mixing, oh, it should be illegal in the new ethno state.
00:27:56.520
As soon as you start trying to push laws, that's a bad idea.
00:28:00.200
You know, people are always going to want to break laws.
00:28:04.780
Well, also, the problem with a topic like miscegenation is I don't really know how relevant it is, Lana.
00:28:17.380
Exactly, and research actually demonstrates that the more diverse a community is, the more likely they are to marry their own kind rather than veer off differently.
00:28:30.160
I think the nationalists that spend a lot of time talking about miscegenation have their own issues to deal with, I think.
00:28:38.080
I see it more, I know this is very similar to a leftist argument, oh, if you're against gay people, then you're probably gay yourself.
00:28:44.460
I think a lot of it is due to issues of, I don't know, maybe sexual ostracism and things like that rather than, because it seems to be young men that care most about this sort of thing.
00:28:56.060
Most people are drawn to their own, and really, the numbers aren't as big.
00:29:03.500
You know, they want to get with other guys from other cultures and races because of what they see on TV, right?
00:29:08.540
But I think if they were honest about it, they don't really want that.
00:29:13.620
But there's always going to be exceptions, you know?
00:29:15.220
We have people that listen that are, you know, interracial marriages, and they love what we do, and they support what we do, and they sympathize with white people.
00:29:25.320
And another thing is, God, sometimes I listen to myself, and I think, what am I saying?
00:29:30.480
But regardless of whether we want to be or not, we are in a multicultural society.
00:29:34.420
And most people that we talk to will have a friend or will have a family member or will know someone in a mixed-race relationship.
00:29:46.080
Well, you also did a video, Five Questions for Progressives, and I know they're big questions, but I think it's good because when people are having a conversation with the leftists, they have to hit some of the weak spots, right?
00:29:57.340
I think it's time that we start asking them questions and make them answer for what's going on.
00:30:01.840
Why do they think that they're the morally superior ones, right?
00:30:10.660
Why is it morally justifiable to make whites a minority in their lands?
00:30:20.040
A lot of – the problem is, is that a lot of left-wing people, or a lot of normal people, shall I say, would say, it's not a good thing.
00:30:34.560
If it's indifferent, if who cares, why does it matter?
00:30:41.560
It's also another good one, because a common reframe you see from people is, well, it was your societies that colonized other communities.
00:30:49.620
It was your society that enacted a horrific foreign policy.
00:30:53.860
Middle Eastern populations take the migrant crisis, for example.
00:30:56.860
So why is it not justified for these people to come here and settle here?
00:31:00.600
But then the reframe to that, of course, is who are you exactly trying to punish?
00:31:07.460
It wasn't the population at large that voted for these foreign policies.
00:31:13.160
So you're trying to punish the people in power.
00:31:14.980
But if you are trying to punish the people in power, it's the people in power that are enacting policies of mass immigration as well.
00:31:23.940
When is it not racist for whites to start pursuing their ethnic interests?
00:31:28.080
Are whites forever damned to be an invisible minority if they do become one?
00:31:33.720
The situation in South Africa, for example, where whites are a huge minority and are facing, basically, a genocide at present.
00:31:42.500
Malema, very recently, who's a black leader in South Africa, has again inspired blacks to take up arms and start dispossessing whites of their land, saying whites have a right to their land.
00:31:55.140
Now, can whites pursue their ethnic interests because they're a minority?
00:32:00.760
Can whites pursue their ethnic interests when they're economically disenfranchised?
00:32:08.780
And then lastly, I think another important one is, are majority white communities immoral?
00:32:14.060
Because most people that espouse this, that actively espouse this, are living in white majority communities.
00:32:22.200
That's why they're able, that's why they have the privilege, the white privilege, to espouse these ideologies.
00:32:28.400
Now, have you had a lot of luck when you're arguing with leftists?
00:32:36.480
Do you even argue with leftists is the question, or just walk away, or just throw them out the window?
00:32:41.820
The only time I would ever argue with a leftist is when other people are watching that could learn something from it.
00:32:51.900
I remember at a lecture in university, because at university I studied social anthropology, which is a thoroughly Jewish, thoroughly social constructivist, postmodern, poststructuralist field.
00:33:07.020
And in one of the lectures, the professor told us that racism is a product of whiteness.
00:33:19.120
And there was quite a lot of discord in the class.
00:33:23.320
A lot of whites said, I don't agree with you on this.
00:33:30.140
The only point there is in arguing is making other people that probably feel the same as you not feel as alone, and let them know that other people feel the same.
00:33:41.300
Their arguments are becoming increasingly irrelevant anyway.
00:33:45.800
So what kind of luck have you had, and what are your tactics if you're trying to convert friends or family or people that you love that are kind of on the fence?
00:33:55.460
What are some ways that you can kind of open their eyes a bit?
00:33:58.220
I always get this question from different people, because it is good that we work on the friends and family and the circles that we all have, right?
00:34:04.020
One of the worries that I think families are going to have with something like this is they can view it in a bit of a cultish way, as if you've kind of been converted to some sort of fringe religious group or something like that.
00:34:19.940
And the only retouch you can have to this isn't in words, it's in actions.
00:34:25.840
Don't get loads of tattoos and things like that.
00:34:32.840
A lot of nationalists do this, especially young nationalists, and I've gone through this phase personally myself.
00:34:39.620
You've just got to be a normal, healthy individual.
00:34:42.420
It's become a bit of a truism to say that nationalist groups look for the disenfranchised, the socially ostracised.
00:34:51.900
Nationalist groups should go for the healthy, the young, the ambitious, the normal.
00:34:55.300
And I'm not saying that I'm any of these things.
00:34:58.800
I'm just saying that that should be the strategy.
00:35:01.000
You don't want to attract freaks because then you're going to get associated with those people whether you like it or not.
00:35:09.740
Everyone that also ascribes to themselves that identity, you're going to get tarred with the same brush.
00:35:15.800
And I also find sometimes people can, it's almost like there's a religious aspect to it.
00:35:20.200
They can almost become religious zealots, very judgmental even of each other.
00:35:23.960
You know, it's like, it's okay to be laid back and also have a sense of humor and be light and easy about some things, right?
00:35:31.180
This is what I found, again, to go back to Casa Pound in Italy, who I think young people could learn a lot from.
00:35:38.280
It's a, I don't like using this as a buzzword, but it's very diverse.
00:35:42.260
People have all sorts of different opinions, different views, but they have the bare bones framework that they can all coalesce around.
00:35:52.460
It's not about, a lot of people talk about ethnomasochism and things like that, and that whites constantly try and one-up themselves.
00:36:05.980
Like, oh, I don't think the Holocaust happened.
00:36:08.720
Oh, I think the Holocaust happened, and it was a good thing.
00:36:12.740
You don't need to do that to show your fidelity to the cause.
00:36:16.800
Ideological fidelity, to that extent, is incredibly counterproductive.
00:36:19.860
Again, when it comes to friends and family, if they want to talk about it with you, talk to them about it in a rational, calm way.
00:36:25.660
Don't be that dick at a dinner table that will not shut up about their politics.
00:36:36.460
Isn't that the best way to deliver our message that we have?
00:36:39.880
Simplicity, is that what we need, to be more effective, to reach more people, to get out there more?
00:36:45.960
Remember, the messenger is the message as well.
00:36:48.700
How you present yourself is going to have a much more tangible effect on the way people perceive you and what you're saying than what you're actually saying.
00:36:58.600
The reason why the left has been so successful isn't due to their arguments.
00:37:03.380
It's due to the people spreading the arguments.
00:37:05.700
Things like Live8, for example, Bob Geldof getting all of these musicians, these very talented people, well, talented, subjective, I suppose, but getting all these very high status people pushing the message, regardless of what the message is, is going to help and support the message.
00:37:25.540
Again, I've said this before, but be careful about the beliefs you attach to nationalism.
00:37:32.520
Don't bother with revisionism and things like that.
00:37:36.220
And if you're interested in that, go ahead, do it, but don't attach it to your nationalism.
00:37:41.160
Another thing as well, don't be rational in your beliefs.
00:37:43.900
That may sound ridiculous, but be as pragmatic as possible.
00:37:46.540
Think, okay, this may be the right thing to do, morally speaking, but is it actually going to help nationalism?
00:37:55.480
Another thing, just be positive, healthy, engaging, lively, interactive.
00:38:12.880
They want to be with people that are happy and winning and look good and are positive.
00:38:18.400
And we're not going to win them over by being down in the dumps all the time, right?
00:38:22.700
And that's why things like TRS and Red Ice, what you're doing, are good.
00:38:28.920
They bring social networks and things like that.
00:38:31.200
People have communities that they can actually engage with rather than being locked up in their bedroom listening to a screwdriver.
00:38:37.260
I think, too, we should ride the wave of Brexit and this whole Trump phenomena.
00:38:42.260
And I think a lot of those people, especially when I look at a lot of the Trump people, they're ready for a nationalist message.
00:38:50.120
So I think if we can simplify and just kind of start with, you know, step one, I think would be more effective in bringing those people in.
00:38:59.300
It basically just shifts the parameters at which discourse can take place.
00:39:05.640
So before it would have been, like, Trump mentioned the word nationalist not too long ago in one of his speeches.
00:39:09.840
Now, that would have been absolutely unheard of until very, very recently.
00:39:14.060
And it's these little baby steps in shifting the discourse.
00:39:17.260
And it takes a long time and it's boring and it's cumbersome.
00:39:20.200
And it's very frustrating, especially when we know that time is not on our side.
00:39:29.880
I'm enthusiastic in the sense that it happened and the people voted for it.
00:39:36.180
But the people that didn't vote for it are a much more vocal group of people and have much more political clout than the people that did.
00:39:44.040
The Brexit vote, Kevin MacDonald said, was about implicit whiteness.
00:39:51.980
I think it's a battle of whitenesses, a pan-European whiteness that denies itself, a pan-European whiteness that sees it as human.
00:40:00.620
But the category of human in and of itself is a white one, if you'll forgive me dropping that massive thing at this point.
00:40:07.020
But it's a conflict in the interests of various whites.
00:40:13.680
And people on both sides, I've already mentioned before how a leftist white identity isn't of itself a white identity.
00:40:18.540
It's just an identity in the fact that it has been denied as one.
00:40:32.200
We have all these little interests and we're so damn picky about everything.
00:40:36.220
So I always wonder, I mean, is it going to be nationalism or is it going to end up being tribalism at this point?
00:40:40.900
You know, I think tribalism is probably a bit more likely.
00:40:46.920
A long time ago, I wrote an article called Maybe I Should Be on the Left.
00:40:50.780
And one of the points I made in that article is talking about ethnic identity.
00:40:55.840
If I'm discussing these issues with people, I get a much more positive response with it,
00:41:01.160
talking to a non-white person or talking to someone from a sexual minority.
00:41:06.560
And that's because these people understand the need for identity.
00:41:10.180
These people have had to go through historic struggles based on their blackness,
00:41:13.760
based on their gayness, based on their transness, etc.
00:41:16.940
Whereas middle class whites have never had to do that.
00:41:19.520
And me instantly saying to a middle class white, you're white.
00:41:23.160
Don't you think you have any political interest?
00:41:24.840
Don't you want to mobilize or secure a place in this nation for your future, for your progeny?
00:41:31.040
But if I talk to a black person about these issues or talk to a Muslim or talk to a gay person,
00:41:36.680
then they understand because they have these identity categories and they value them a lot.
00:41:40.880
So then that raises the question is, how practical is this belief in my preservation of whiteness
00:41:47.460
when it is explicit, if it alienates me from the majority of whites?
00:41:51.320
It's a really difficult question to deal with, I think.
00:41:55.480
And then you have cucks, you know, little white cucks that are just like,
00:42:00.020
They have a problem with all those other groups because they are identitarian.
00:42:04.580
They look at it like it's bad to have an identity.
00:42:06.780
We should all just get along and just buy the same stuff, right?
00:42:15.900
When I look at American Republicans, that's probably, they're very cuckservative to me.
00:42:20.560
I don't know how much you follow American politics.
00:42:23.260
Not so much, but I know what you're referring to, a kind of neocon.
00:42:28.240
There's, I'm sure you're familiar with Sargon of Akkad.
00:42:33.260
And a lot of nationalists, I think, like him a lot.
00:42:36.780
Recently, he's been engaging with millennial woes a lot over nationalism and things like that.
00:42:41.980
But the tendency among nationalists is to side a lot more with someone like Sargon of Akkad
00:42:50.320
And I kind of think nationalists have got that all wrong.
00:42:57.280
We like them, or we should like them, I think, because at least they acknowledge race.
00:43:02.820
They create a white identity by positing whites to be so terrible.
00:43:06.800
Sargon of Akkad, on the other hand, says, no, it's completely irrelevant.
00:43:13.520
I think that's going to be more deleterious to what we're trying to do.
00:43:17.900
So how would you even begin to approach an SJW on these issues when they're like,
00:43:28.400
I'm saying, for example, they're putting us in a fortunate position, I'm saying, in terms
00:43:38.740
Again, I went to a university that was incredibly left-leaning.
00:43:42.940
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it is the most left-wing establishment in the
00:43:49.120
Anyone that knows anything about British universities will know which university I was at by me saying
00:43:53.620
that, white people now are being taught to analyze their whiteness, to recognize their
00:44:03.260
That is a seed that is very important for them to be planting.
00:44:08.820
The moment a white person recognizes their whiteness, it gives us the opportunity to renegotiate
00:44:14.300
what is constitutive of their whiteness, what makes up their whiteness.
00:44:17.700
If people are denying their whiteness completely, then that's much more difficult for us to
00:44:24.340
Again, it goes back to this, why does it matter?
00:44:27.760
If I say whites are a minority and someone says, why does it matter?
00:44:30.640
Then I have to go, oh yeah, but you have ethnic identity, you're white, blah, blah, blah.
00:44:34.700
If someone says, yeah, I know, and that's a good thing, I think, okay, at least you recognize
00:44:38.240
that you're white and you could possibly have some interest.
00:44:40.880
I say, yeah, that's a good way of looking at it.
00:44:45.100
Yeah, and that's something I always get to, people always say, give me something positive,
00:44:51.100
And how I see that is everyone has to do that on their own.
00:44:56.480
I think a lot of people kind of want some magical dictator to come and fix everything,
00:45:00.760
A lot of people don't want to do the work, but the road that we have before us, it's long
00:45:05.860
I mean, we're talking about reigniting our culture again, right?
00:45:09.720
And kind of being trailblazers and it's going to take a lot of work.
00:45:12.880
What do you think when people come to you and say, tell me something hopeful, give me
00:45:21.620
Hope is kind of useless because the moment you invoke hope, you're denying your own path.
00:45:26.140
Again, it's like saying you've got to do what you can.
00:45:28.000
Again, if you're talking about hope, you're assuming that everything is out of your control.
00:45:34.820
But again, even if everything goes to shit and we fail and our nations decline, irreversibly
00:45:42.780
speaking, and we find ourselves in an absolutely hellish situation, at least you tried, okay?
00:45:52.440
Just enjoy it and see this whole thing as a game.
00:45:55.500
That's not to trivialize it, but there's honestly nothing else you can do.
00:46:01.340
What the majority of people do is out of your control.
00:46:08.260
You need to hope that other people, I use the word hope, you need to expect other people
00:46:20.060
Loads of, you know, subtle chipping away of the system.
00:46:25.500
And people have to work on your own life, right?
00:46:27.460
You have to work on your own family, your own marriages, build up your own careers, become
00:46:35.120
And if everyone did that and you surround yourself by other people like that, then you're going
00:46:38.780
to start to draw other white people who are like, hmm, I want that kind of life.
00:46:43.840
We have to basically say this all the time, become who other people want to be like, right?
00:46:50.420
And at present, again, I can draw on my experience in Italy.
00:46:58.420
Yeah, where you're from, they're very healthy, very lively, very charismatic people, very normal
00:47:04.640
The situation in the UK is very different from that.
00:47:10.100
The most important thing is to build community.
00:47:12.080
Community in itself is going to create hope because you've got something tangible to cling
00:47:15.700
Say, well, this is mine and it's not going anywhere.
00:47:24.580
I see a lot of people get kind of gloom and doom and we've got to shake out of that.
00:47:37.480
And people that are in situations, a lot of people can retort and say, well, there is no
00:47:47.060
They're going to be the least vocal people, though, because people that are vocal about
00:47:51.780
these, again, we're coming back to the paradox, because the people that tend to be most vocal
00:47:56.700
about these issues are the people with nothing to lose, are the people that are not going
00:48:04.140
And of course, there are innumerable, very healthy people in nationalism.
00:48:08.580
But the people that are most vocal are probably going to be the people that see themselves as
00:48:16.620
So remember that the people that you're most likely going to assimilate with, that you're
00:48:21.540
most likely going to get on with, are going to be those that are going to be stepping
00:48:24.380
back, aren't going to be saying anything, but they're out there.
00:48:30.500
Are you connecting with other people your age, other nationalists around Europe?
00:48:35.640
Or is it pretty much just you have one in Italy, one in England?
00:48:40.300
I know Generation Identity has planned some events where people from other countries have come
00:48:48.520
I have a fair few friends in England that are nationalists.
00:48:56.640
I advise anyone listening to this that is based in the UK that is interested in hiking,
00:49:02.140
martial arts, things like that, to attend a Legion camp, Legion Mac.
00:49:09.920
That's an incredibly positive development in England.
00:49:12.880
So I would advise anyone, again, to get in touch and try and take part in that.
00:49:18.080
In Italy as well, since being here, I've made a lot of contacts at Casa Pound.
00:49:22.780
Again, I can't stress enough, you have to be proactive.
00:49:37.220
We have to take back our governments or try and get in there.
00:49:39.920
What are your thoughts on the political system?
00:49:42.660
Do you think nationalists have a chance to get in there?
00:49:49.020
As time passes, due to demographics alone, it's going to become an impossibility, I think.
00:49:57.060
London, for example, will never have a Conservative mayor again.
00:50:04.360
The same is going to apply to places like Birmingham, Manchester, Bradford, major cities
00:50:11.960
And there is very, very little hope politically of doing that.
00:50:16.880
So on that basis alone, I think you're wasting your time with democratic politics.
00:50:30.240
But I'm saying that there are more proactive ways to mobilize white people.
00:50:35.100
Again, to come back to building community, that's the most important thing.
00:50:39.400
That's the only way you're really going to serve white interests.
00:50:43.880
The only way it's going to happen is if whites start voting as a demographic bloc.
00:50:48.820
And the Brexit vote proves, I mean, it was pretty much a 50-50 split.
00:50:52.700
That kind of proves that whites are definitely not acting as a demographic bloc.
00:50:58.640
And so the chances of finding a community where whites make up a significant minority, but
00:51:04.640
not the majority, and also all those whites are going to be voting in tandem with each
00:51:10.380
But I don't see that as necessarily hopeless, Lana.
00:51:13.040
I don't really see that as a terrible thing in and of itself.
00:51:18.860
In the last 20 years or so, Britain hasn't changed substantially due to parliamentary democracy.
00:51:23.800
The Labour government themselves admitted that between, I think it was 1997 and 2004 or some
00:51:31.280
such periods, that they purposefully imported millions of immigrants to rub the right's nose
00:51:39.260
So they know exactly what they're doing, and they're trying to make it an impossibility.
00:51:43.240
We basically need to show them that it doesn't really matter, and that actually real political
00:51:50.340
It's boots on the ground, it's people sticking together and helping each other.
00:52:02.540
Yeah, wasn't it, you just had, was it Theresa May?
00:52:06.200
Was it Theresa May that just said that about, that Britons can benefit greatly from Sharia law?
00:52:14.960
But to be honest, British Muslims, again, this again raises a problem, because British
00:52:22.760
Muslims do benefit greatly from Sharia law courts, because they're able to preserve their
00:52:28.280
cultural identity through British law courts, I'm sorry, Sharia law courts.
00:52:31.660
They're able to preserve who they are through Sharia law courts.
00:52:35.240
So they kind of do, probably for the complete opposite reasons that Theresa May is saying,
00:52:42.100
And I have a problem with people on the right saying, oh no, we should really object to Sharia
00:52:47.460
law courts because they're so horrible for these Muslim women, etc.
00:52:54.640
I don't really care what the plight is of Muslim women, to be honest.
00:53:01.300
I don't want to get involved in the identity politics of other ethnic groups, Sharia law
00:53:06.920
As long as they're confined to Islamic people doing their Islamic thing, fine.
00:53:11.980
Man, England is just getting so crowded, though.
00:53:14.100
I think all these people need to get, they need to go home eventually.
00:53:24.760
I mean, Europe's dealt with invasions before, right?
00:53:28.440
Muslim invasions, and they've chased people out before.
00:53:33.360
You don't think that's ever going to happen, though?
00:53:35.940
It would need such a monumental shift in affect in Western people to suddenly regard
00:53:42.680
it as ethical to uproot people, some of which have been here for more than one generation,
00:53:52.420
The logistical issues, it's a possibility, and it's not one that I'm ethically against
00:54:01.620
But I think, for example, to take America, repatriation in America isn't going to happen.
00:54:08.400
You're not going to get an all-white or a vast majority-white America.
00:54:11.300
Again, people are going to segment into different communities.
00:54:13.700
Either that will happen through secession or that will happen naturally, as it already is.
00:54:21.560
600,000 white British have fled London in the last 10 years or so alone.
00:54:32.160
Unfortunately, I think we're going to be in a situation where it will be tribalistic, mostly.
00:54:37.940
The ideal situation in that instance is tribalistic communities that get on quite well are able
00:54:43.840
to interact with each other but are able to maintain those degrees of separation because
00:54:47.820
they recognize that ultimately that separation is necessary for harmony.
00:54:58.360
Anyone that says humans are the same and can and should live together and not place importance
00:55:04.880
on these categories, on these cultural differences, is immoral as far as I can see.
00:55:10.040
They're denying the right of these groups to exist.
00:55:12.820
I just have to ask, I mean, as an Englishman, doesn't it drive you mad at times?
00:55:17.000
I know you're not there right now, but when you see what's happening to your country, I
00:55:20.860
mean, what do you think when you walk down the streets of London now?
00:55:24.360
I mean, how does one not feel completely peeved about it?
00:55:30.480
It's, yeah, especially someone that lives in London or lived in London.
00:55:37.220
You've got to numb yourself to it because then everything else goes out the window and
00:55:41.380
you just kind of want to just throw in the towel and think, forget it.
00:55:49.700
Any act of violence is only going to hinder our efforts.
00:55:55.040
I think treat people as people, be as civil as you can be, and try and get on with your
00:56:07.680
It's not going to help anyone to talk about how terrible the situation is.
00:56:12.620
So I'd rather not talk about the visceral emotional responses that walking through the
00:56:25.460
You have to be careful where you poise your mind.
00:56:32.440
But yeah, but you don't want it every day when you're out running errands.
00:56:38.560
I don't want to be invoking thoughts of genocide in my brain.
00:56:43.100
I have to say, though, I've been thinking about it a lot.
00:56:46.420
You know, thinking, oh, my God, what if there was no white country on the planet?
00:56:49.700
What if everything just turned into like third world danger?
00:56:56.600
There's pockets of us that are way too smart for that.
00:57:11.000
Of course, the best thing any indigenous European can do is have children.
00:57:18.080
But then I think, but going to school, being around the society as it currently stands.
00:57:32.340
Build community and then you can have a good village help raise the kids.
00:57:40.600
I know I definitely want you to share your website and your YouTube channel and tell us
00:57:48.980
But you can find me on YouTube, state of nation, all one word.
00:58:02.300
I really enjoyed it and we'll have to do it again sometime.
00:58:06.900
He's young, offers a fresh perspective and maintains an overall lightness about him.
00:58:10.960
The trick is to not become a Debbie Downer when discussing what looks like a grim future
00:58:16.680
We're not going to win over newcomers with a down in the dumps attitude.
00:58:20.200
It's one thing to assess the negative aspects, but it's another thing to be defeatist about
00:58:24.540
I, for one, refuse to give up and say it's over.
00:58:29.060
We've been through a lot and will continue to thrive against all odds.
00:58:35.400
We've achieved things that no other people have.
00:58:38.100
Speaking from a woman's perspective, no woman wants to be with the guy with a downer outlook.
00:58:42.860
She wants to be with a strong man who can offer a vision for a prosperous future.
00:58:47.640
One who can laugh in the face of the enemy and blaze a path to a better world.
00:58:52.080
Sure, things are pretty gloom when we look around, but there's good things happening as
00:58:56.920
Our people have needed a good shaking, a good slap in the face.
00:59:00.400
We've become complacent, out of touch with nature, and unfit in so many ways.
00:59:04.940
We can use what is happening now to ignite a fire once again in our people.
00:59:11.220
We're not the ones crying to other nations to take care of us like so many foreigners
00:59:17.640
We can build something better, and I'm happy to be a pioneer in that new civilization because
00:59:24.940
So be glad it's going down and will take the best with us.
00:59:30.200
Let's go back to the basics to win over so many disgruntled European people looking for
00:59:35.400
a tribe, looking for answers and wanting solutions.
00:59:39.780
So I think it is wise when trying to win over newcomers to cut out the advanced topics
00:59:45.500
I know we're getting it from every angle possible, but when winning over new people,
00:59:49.840
Teach the basics of mass immigration into white countries, the lie of multiculturalism, and
00:59:55.080
the double standards imposed only on white people.
00:59:58.300
When talking to new people, keep it simple and repeat it.
01:00:04.140
Then refer them to shows like this one and many others.
01:00:06.740
Thanks for listening, and please consider signing up for a Red Ice membership to get full access
01:00:13.720
There's so much work to do, and I'm full of ideas and what to do, but we need the manpower
01:00:20.080
Redicemembers.com is where you can go to sign up.
01:00:22.720
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