Radio 3Fourteen - Nationalism_ Keeping It Simple

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:00:30.000 This is Radio 314 on the Red Ice Radio Network.

00:01:00.000 It's called Weekend Warrior.

00:01:02.020 Henrik and I talk about the latest news, events, and whatever else we feel like.

00:01:06.040 We do release short snippets of a few segments, but not the full show.

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00:01:13.840 We also have a private chat enabled for our members.

00:01:16.740 Things are much more fun behind the curtain.

00:01:18.660 Also, we will be live streaming from both the Republican and Democratic conventions.

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00:01:28.300 can simply be there with our group.

00:01:30.020 So if you live in Cleveland, Ohio, or Philadelphia, please get in touch with me.

00:01:34.680 My guest today is the young and talented State of Nation.

00:01:37.560 That's the name of his YouTube channel where he covers topics pertaining to European identity,

00:01:42.560 culture, and survival.

00:01:44.020 His most popular video was called Nationalism in 90 Seconds.

00:01:47.940 We'll talk about some topics he thinks are mistakenly intertwined with the concept of

00:01:52.040 nationalism and counterproductive strategies that could be cut out when spreading the nationalist

00:01:56.980 message.

00:01:58.140 What is the most effective, best way to win over more people and stop preaching to the choir?

00:02:03.220 This and much more with State of Nation up next.

00:02:06.060 State of Nation, welcome to the program.

00:02:07.980 Thanks for being here.

00:02:09.280 Hello, it's a pleasure.

00:02:10.080 Thank you.

00:02:10.820 So you're in Italy.

00:02:11.840 I want to know, how's the refugee invasion in Italy these days?

00:02:14.980 What's going on?

00:02:15.680 To be honest, okay, so I'm in the very south of Italy, a place called Bari, and there's

00:02:20.860 a huge port in Bari.

00:02:21.940 Actually, very recently, an English Islamist was arrested here on charges of terror.

00:02:27.120 But in terms of refugees and the immigrant situation here, Bari is incredibly homogenous,

00:02:33.460 if you can call any southern Italian city homogenous, that is.

00:02:37.300 But people here that aren't Italian, and by extension I mean people here that aren't European, 1.00

00:02:42.800 are of incredibly low status.

00:02:45.420 I think the demography here is 2% non-Italian, people that are residents here.

00:02:49.900 So really, I'm living in a place that is very incubated from these problems.

00:02:54.180 Oh, very nice.

00:02:54.800 And are they really infected with liberalism and PC, or are they more lay back?

00:02:58.780 Oh yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

00:03:00.900 Everyone that I know is a communist.

00:03:02.220 No, on that note, though, are you familiar with Casa Pound?

00:03:08.580 No.

00:03:09.660 In Italy, Casa Pound is a neo-fascist organization in Italy.

00:03:14.440 Very, very Italian, a thoroughly Italian organization, but they are basically the premier

00:03:19.400 right-wing youth organization in this country.

00:03:22.580 They're quite big.

00:03:23.200 They're able to mobilize easily 1,000 students and things like that.

00:03:26.220 They've done a very good job of mobilizing student populations.

00:03:28.540 Casa Pound have actually recently opened headquarters here in Bari, and I'm in very close relations

00:03:35.440 with the people that are in charge of that.

00:03:37.280 So that's a very interesting progression.

00:03:39.640 Yeah, I've been trying to reach out to people in Italy, you know, wanted to talk about their

00:03:43.100 fascist past and, you know, kind of get a different spin on it, but it's hard because

00:03:48.160 of the language barrier.

00:03:49.480 I mean, do you find a lot of people that speak English there?

00:03:52.360 No.

00:03:53.000 Yeah.

00:03:53.160 No, I kind of go to social groups and swim from group to group, par la inglese, par la

00:03:57.960 inglese, and hope that I find someone.

00:04:00.800 Yeah, it's very difficult to find English speakers here, but there are enough to get by.

00:04:04.940 And to be honest, I should be less lazy and integrate and learn the language.

00:04:09.600 It's so hard, though, because everyone just, everyone speaks English in Europe now.

00:04:13.100 You know, I had that in Sweden, you know, I married a Swede, I want to practice my Swedish,

00:04:16.820 and then everyone else wants to speak English with me all the time, so then it just, I don't

00:04:20.340 get to learn Swedish.

00:04:21.060 And the Swedes speak English better than most English people, so what's the point? 1.00

00:04:25.440 So I have to ask, how did you come to identify as a nationalist?

00:04:28.760 How did that happen for you?

00:04:31.660 I'm 24 now.

00:04:33.420 I was about 17, so it was 2009 in England, and things were ballooning with the BNP.

00:04:42.100 Prior to this, I was an Arden, open borders, for all intents and purposes, Marxist, really.

00:04:48.700 Really?

00:04:49.040 Yeah, I wouldn't have put that label on it myself if asked, but looking back on it, that's

00:04:54.500 what I was.

00:04:55.000 I definitely was anti-nation state.

00:04:57.760 And I remember my best friend at the time was a gay fella who was also Malaysian, and

00:05:03.720 oddly enough, he supported the BNP.

00:05:06.180 That's funny.

00:05:10.100 Of course.

00:05:11.020 So I used to get in common arguments with him, and eventually I conceived that, okay,

00:05:14.540 if you believe in the nation state, then your best option is the BNP, otherwise what is

00:05:18.020 the point in the nation state without immigration controls, etc.

00:05:21.000 But anyway, the time came when Nick Griffin was to appear on Question Time, and this was

00:05:25.260 quite a big deal in the UK.

00:05:26.480 This was the first time any nationalist figurehead had been given a platform on Question Time,

00:05:31.200 like a political debate show in the UK.

00:05:34.180 I watched this with a bellicose attitude to Griffin.

00:05:36.980 I didn't like him at all.

00:05:38.540 To be honest, I didn't know much about him, but from what I'd heard, I didn't like him.

00:05:42.020 And so I watched it to see him get trounced, basically.

00:05:45.100 And he did get trounced.

00:05:46.280 He gave an absolutely terrible performance in my mind.

00:05:49.120 But watching the way that he was treated by all of the establishment politicians, it instantly

00:05:54.820 got me thinking.

00:05:55.880 And they completely changed the format of the show.

00:05:58.760 The audience was invariably incredibly hostile to him.

00:06:02.880 And I thought, on that basis alone, I don't trust any of these politicians, so why should

00:06:07.040 I trust their distaste of him?

00:06:08.640 So I started reading BNP literature.

00:06:11.960 I was never taken in with the party themselves, but through that I discovered David Duke.

00:06:16.380 And from there, I discovered the European Alternative Right, or the European New Right, I think

00:06:22.340 was the name of the movement, with Alain de Benoist and people like that.

00:06:25.280 And that's what really sowed the seeds for me.

00:06:27.300 It was their work.

00:06:28.060 Oh, that's great.

00:06:28.600 You're only 24.

00:06:29.660 Wow, that's awesome.

00:06:30.500 You have your whole life ahead of you.

00:06:31.700 So do you think a lot of people in your generation are going to be like you?

00:06:35.380 They're going to wake up and say, yeah, nationalism is the way.

00:06:38.300 No.

00:06:38.780 No?

00:06:39.160 No.

00:06:39.720 Not unless nationalism changes itself quite considerably.

00:06:44.020 Um, these progressions with the alt-right, which have happened very, very recently, are incredibly

00:06:50.860 promising.

00:06:52.040 But the problem is, is that the battle they're fighting is, it's too weighed heavily against

00:06:58.480 them.

00:06:59.000 Yeah.

00:06:59.680 Anyone with status in the UK, with cultural capital, with, um, who has any, any sort of

00:07:06.420 status in, in the society, so middle class, whites, university educated, the default for

00:07:11.760 them is going to be incredibly hostile because they'll have gone to university.

00:07:15.120 They'll have made friends with a hugely diverse group of people.

00:07:19.020 And now, of course, that's not to say that nationalism as a prerequisite denies you the

00:07:22.500 ability to make friends with people from a variety of backgrounds, but it can make things

00:07:26.980 more difficult.

00:07:29.120 Also, the people that we need to reach are the people that are distanced from the problems

00:07:33.900 that multiculturalism creates.

00:07:37.220 And so it's, again, it's, it's very hard for you to show people these issues and for

00:07:41.620 them to have any sort of visceral gut attachment to them.

00:07:45.900 So.

00:07:46.500 It's true.

00:07:47.080 It seems like the, the people that are easiest to recruit are the ones that live in diverse

00:07:51.220 areas and have had to deal with some problems, right?

00:07:54.560 Yeah.

00:07:54.960 And it's, it's kind of a vicious circle because I don't mean it's an elite in, in an elitist

00:07:59.900 way, I really don't, but the people that are having to live in these diverse areas tend

00:08:04.920 to be unskilled workers.

00:08:06.360 They tend to be people that aren't able to articulate themselves in ways that are considered

00:08:10.480 decent, especially when expressing these issues.

00:08:14.300 And that further alienates more middle-class whites from identifying with nationalism,

00:08:19.140 unfortunately.

00:08:20.200 Yeah.

00:08:20.760 I was saying, where's the natural aristocracy that's a, that's more nationalist based.

00:08:24.820 It's like, it's missing.

00:08:25.780 I don't see it anywhere.

00:08:27.140 Do you?

00:08:27.380 No, but the aristocracy is still race-based and it is still race-based.

00:08:35.300 It's just how whiteness has manifested itself. 0.94

00:08:38.220 I did a video on, on white privilege that kind of goes into this a little bit because

00:08:44.320 one way that I try to deal with this narrative of white privilege isn't by denying white privilege.

00:08:50.520 It's instead about talking, what do you mean by white privilege?

00:08:53.440 Because the idea of white privilege in and of itself has to posit an invariable white identity.

00:09:00.620 Okay.

00:09:00.800 So whiteness is one discrete thing. 0.71

00:09:02.780 Blackness is another discrete thing. 0.98

00:09:04.780 When actually it's not all white people that benefit from white privilege. 0.97

00:09:08.400 Of course, a corporate executive has a lot more privilege than a neo-Nazi skinhead, for example.

00:09:13.460 I'm going to sound a little bit like an intersectional feminist here, but the point is, is that white privilege is only really accorded to you if you deny your whiteness. 0.80

00:09:23.960 The moment your whiteness becomes explicit, the moment you say, I am white, I'm going to politically mobilize as white, you lose that privilege and you become a racist, you become something else.

00:09:35.520 So we still do have a race-based aristocracy and these people know what they're doing.

00:09:40.140 In the old right, we refer to them as everyone knows as virtue signalers and they're doing it to record themselves with social status.

00:09:46.900 And that status in itself is, is a racial identity, whether they want to admit it or not.

00:09:51.220 Well, you did this great video, nationalism in 90 seconds.

00:09:54.900 I think I cut off about seven seconds in the beginning, but let me play it here.

00:09:58.940 The earth is a diverse place.

00:10:01.080 Thousands of ethnicities, over 6,000 languages, over 4,000 religions and every multiplicity in between.

00:10:09.780 Humans are a diverse species that have found innumerable ways to live and love, fight and function.

00:10:16.880 Nationalism recognizes that each one of these groups is special.

00:10:20.500 Each one unique and valuable in and of itself.

00:10:24.640 Nationalism recognizes the disasters of colonialism and the perils of globalization.

00:10:29.900 Nationalism stands against assimilation that contributes to the ongoing destruction of the earth's rich diversity. 0.96

00:10:36.400 In general, people gravitate to those like their own.

00:10:44.540 People support interests and policies of benefit to themselves.

00:10:48.680 Different groups vote for policies to help them, creating demographic enmity.

00:10:54.000 Nationalism recognizes difference.

00:10:56.340 People are different.

00:10:57.380 People flourish in different environments.

00:10:59.440 Nationalism is about creating positive environments to suit the needs of the group.

00:11:05.400 There is no one-size-fits-all.

00:11:07.960 Whether we be Australian aboriginals, Palestinians, Indian nationalists, Native Americans, Englishmen, Israelis, black South Africans, Afrikaan Boers.

00:11:17.980 We're all willing for the same thing.

00:11:21.080 Our culture and our people.

00:11:23.840 Our culture is not something to relegate to the museum for future generations.

00:11:28.580 Our culture is for future generations.

00:11:31.580 This is our commitment.

00:11:33.200 Well, I thought that was great.

00:11:35.020 You summarized it beautifully in 90 seconds.

00:11:38.040 I would also add, too, that people always think that a nation is just government, right?

00:11:42.840 They don't think of it as a tribe.

00:11:45.340 What do you think?

00:11:45.920 Yeah.

00:11:46.620 Well, that's why I chose the name state of nation.

00:11:50.440 Because a state can be two things.

00:11:52.400 It can be an emotional experience, a state of happiness, a state of sadness, etc.

00:11:56.240 Or it can be a nation state.

00:11:58.120 So it's trying to differentiate between that conception that people have.

00:12:02.200 A nation is a self-identified ethnic group, I think, to keep it as simple as possible.

00:12:07.600 So I got to talk about this because a lot of people have these major misconceptions when you say nationalism, right?

00:12:13.340 They always think Nazis right away or genociding other groups.

00:12:16.540 So tell us some of the common misconceptions.

00:12:19.420 Maybe I just said what they were.

00:12:21.600 Well, the idea of genocide is an interesting one.

00:12:24.720 Because nationalism, by its definition, in itself negates the prospect of genocide.

00:12:29.520 Now, I'm going to probably disagree with many people in saying this.

00:12:32.620 Because many people see cultural relativism as something that is hostile to nationalism or hostile to the alternative right.

00:12:39.900 But I think it's actually an integral part of it.

00:12:42.980 I think any nationalist that is supremacist or believes that their country or their society is better than another,

00:12:52.460 I think that belief in and of itself kind of requires a colonialist predisposition.

00:12:58.220 Because if you do genuinely believe that your society is the best,

00:13:01.500 then surely it's a moral thing to try and colonize other groups and try and inculcate other groups in your cultural ways.

00:13:07.540 Hence, we have Western colonialism.

00:13:09.280 That was definitely not a product of nationalism.

00:13:12.040 Nationalism is cultural relativism applied.

00:13:16.200 Cultural relativism is the belief that every group, every culture has a value in and of itself

00:13:21.360 and therefore deserves the right of protection.

00:13:23.940 That's literally all nationalism is.

00:13:26.360 Anything else you add to nationalism is your personal political qualms.

00:13:30.420 It has nothing to do with nationalism, in essence, I don't think.

00:13:34.000 I was spying on some of the comments on your videos and you responded to someone and you said, 0.93

00:13:37.680 I hate it when people compound nationalism with other irrelevant shit, which I thought was kind of funny. 0.83

00:13:43.160 So can you talk about that? 0.98

00:13:45.060 Yeah, people often compound nationalism with issues related to, well, anything.

00:13:53.000 Homosexuality is a big one. 1.00

00:13:54.420 Feminism is a big one. 1.00

00:13:55.620 Gender issues, of course, issues relating to Judaism.

00:14:03.480 These can be obstacles, potentially, to nationalism.

00:14:06.440 Not necessarily, but potentially they can be obstacles.

00:14:09.880 And therefore, limited talk should maybe be granted to them.

00:14:13.300 All I would say on that is this.

00:14:16.500 We are already in a position where our beliefs aren't exactly greeted amorously by the majority of people.

00:14:25.000 The last thing we want to do is attach to that already low status belief is compound it with other beliefs

00:14:33.100 that are also going to record us lower status.

00:14:35.300 So already, as it stands, a belief in lowering immigration or stopping immigration,

00:14:41.720 regardless of how many people agree with it, is seen as a low status belief.

00:14:46.980 Coupling that with homophobia, coupling that with other things as well, isn't really going to help us.

00:14:53.040 I think Jared Taylor was questioned quite a long time ago on why he doesn't talk about the Jews very much.

00:14:59.980 I think he said this at a London forum meeting in England.

00:15:02.900 And he replied back saying, I can only afford to be a quack on one issue.

00:15:08.800 And I think that's probably the best reply.

00:15:11.220 It's that they're tangents that at this point aren't important,

00:15:15.900 especially with something like homosexuality, for example.

00:15:19.040 When we're facing complete demographic annihilation, 0.82

00:15:22.620 the last thing I'm honestly caring about is who people are having sex with, frankly.

00:15:27.540 Yeah, I mean, does nationalism have to be right-wing?

00:15:29.620 Because I think I told you in a note, there's also a left-wing, or alt-left, that's slowly forming.

00:15:36.680 I don't think, I don't really know what right-wing and left-wing mean.

00:15:40.640 But in any case, right and left have become identity categories that people ascribe to themselves when they act politically.

00:15:48.360 And as a result of that, it's quite hard to change how people see themselves.

00:15:53.600 It's quite hard to make a left-wing person then come to identify as right.

00:15:58.280 I think the best tool is to reframe the language that you use,

00:16:01.940 or just avoid conversations that mention right and left-wing oppositions.

00:16:07.160 I try not to even mention them.

00:16:09.900 Obviously, nationalism doesn't have to be left-wing or right-wing.

00:16:12.600 It can be anything. 0.99

00:16:14.160 Nationalists, frankly, should stop squabbling about irrelevant shit, again, about left and right, 0.98

00:16:19.540 because it's not important to us, not at this point, I don't think. 0.99

00:16:22.240 And what about liberalism?

00:16:23.940 How do you see that colliding with nationalism?

00:16:27.980 Right, this is a big question.

00:16:29.840 I know liberalism in America is different than, you know, England and everywhere else.

00:16:33.960 Yeah, if I'm talking about, what liberalism are you referring to?

00:16:37.080 Are you referring to classical liberalism, or are you referring to Democrat liberalism?

00:16:40.900 Yeah, Democrat.

00:16:41.880 Today's modern-day politics, I suppose.

00:16:43.960 You know, multiculturalism, equality, all of that nonsense. 0.98

00:16:46.620 Okay, well, it depends, because one is kind of an outgrowth of the other, I think.

00:16:55.460 Talking about, because classical liberalism in and of itself, I don't think can really deny mass immigration.

00:17:02.320 I think if you take a classical liberal stance, in and of its, it is eventually going to lead to an Americanized liberalism.

00:17:08.620 If you believe in the equality of all people, in the universality of the category of human, that everyone is a rational human being, able to harness their agency in a capitalist world, I think on that basis, one is necessarily going to stem from the other.

00:17:26.960 Because really, I mean, it's really coming down to globalists versus nationalists.

00:17:31.780 And when I look at liberals and a lot of leftists in Europe and America, they're globalists, right?

00:17:36.640 And no one ever talks about the negative side of globalization and universal thinking, do they?

00:17:42.000 No, they don't.

00:17:43.360 And people tend to assume that universal thinking is a positive thing.

00:17:47.820 The big contradiction here is universal thinking coupled with globalism, because universal thinking applied universally undermines itself.

00:17:58.960 It has to undermine itself.

00:18:00.500 The only universal that we really have in the world is difference.

00:18:04.140 People behave differently.

00:18:05.600 Cultures are different.

00:18:06.680 Languages are different.

00:18:07.780 Religions are different.

00:18:09.300 And as a result, people are always going to behave differently in a society.

00:18:12.960 And that's going to necessarily result in different outcomes.

00:18:16.320 Globalism, as a result, by definition, is going to result in mass inequality.

00:18:24.380 This doesn't necessarily have to be due to racial distinctions.

00:18:28.060 These could all be cultural creations.

00:18:29.780 I have no idea.

00:18:30.740 I'm not really interested in that debate.

00:18:32.720 But when you have a mass of different cultures living together under one nation state, as globalism would support,

00:18:39.780 different cultures are going to, as I said, behave differently. 0.63

00:18:42.540 Some cultures are going to put huge stress on the accumulation of wealth.

00:18:45.420 Other cultures are going to put huge stress on familial affiliation, on religion, and all these different things.

00:18:50.860 And as a result of that, wealth inequality is an inevitable part of that.

00:18:55.820 You can either embrace that wealth inequality and say, okay, it's just a side effect.

00:19:00.820 But, of course, that is going to give rise to certain objections by certain groups that are going to be suffering from that.

00:19:07.060 Or you can try and eliminate those differences.

00:19:09.340 And that, I think, is equally undesirable.

00:19:12.680 Yeah, you did a great video about resisting assimilation, which had a lot of good meaty stuff in there.

00:19:17.360 And you basically explain how liberalism, it is supremacist, right?

00:19:21.060 And, I mean, they're obsessed with making everyone the same, aren't they?

00:19:24.380 Why are they obsessed with that?

00:19:25.800 Because it's necessary in capitalism.

00:19:32.160 Capitalism has to necessarily commodify things.

00:19:36.040 This isn't a critique of capitalism.

00:19:38.320 It's a critique of capitalism coupled with liberalism.

00:19:42.300 It stems back to the European Enlightenment, the belief that, again, in universals, that's where the belief in universals come from.

00:19:52.460 The disinterested accumulation of wealth that I've mentioned before.

00:19:55.680 You need to believe, if you are going to live in a capitalist society, you need to believe that everyone is essentially the same.

00:20:01.280 Otherwise, you are essentially saying mass inequality is a good thing.

00:20:05.860 And most people don't want to admit that.

00:20:07.320 And I personally wouldn't admit that either.

00:20:09.060 I think if you want to live in a society that values sameness, you have to be in a racially or culturally, linguistically homogenous society.

00:20:18.280 Again, it's just a very common contradiction that people don't seem to analyze that much.

00:20:22.880 Yeah, you did a good job.

00:20:23.900 You're explaining basically the desire for assimilation or forcing assimilation is actually creating extremism, right?

00:20:30.060 They're resisting to melting into that pot of sameness, right?

00:20:34.700 Exactly, because people don't want to be the same.

00:20:36.900 People have cultural identities that they want to keep.

00:20:40.140 The existence of indigenous tribes still today is complete proof of that.

00:20:45.740 The existence or the upsurge of Islamism is proof of that. 1.00

00:20:49.880 People are not interested in your rationality.

00:20:52.280 People are not interested in your nine-to-five work ethic.

00:20:55.580 People don't care.

00:20:56.440 People have other aspirations.

00:20:57.640 And it's your duty to understand that and to admit to yourself that, okay, if you live in a centralized nation state with all of these different peoples, you're going to get conflict.

00:21:07.220 Yeah, you cannot live in a society like that and escape that.

00:21:13.640 Yeah, people have a lot of utopian ideas.

00:21:15.420 I also hear, too, that people think just because now we can buy things from all over the world, we can go online, we can talk to people everywhere, travel anywhere, that we should also be able to just migrate and live wherever we want.

00:21:27.420 What do you think about that idea?

00:21:28.400 Well, there are so many aspects of globalization that I absolutely adore, and it really has hit home to me, especially since living in Italy, living in southern Italy.

00:21:40.720 I can't get the food that I want to eat anywhere, Lana.

00:21:44.080 It's absolutely impossible.

00:21:45.480 If I want a curry, for example, I can't get it here.

00:21:48.160 I have to live off focaccia, pizza, pasta.

00:21:50.660 I'm sick of it.

00:21:51.480 I want a little bit of globalization.

00:21:52.740 Oh, my God.

00:21:53.900 It's a cultural exchange.

00:21:54.960 But in terms of the people, people need to understand that people are not economic units.

00:22:02.960 People don't live on their own without enacting any sort of political change or voicing any upsets, especially if you're in a democracy.

00:22:12.760 Couple this as well.

00:22:13.480 All I've said, couple it with democracy, and democracy essentially becomes a battle of demography.

00:22:18.580 Different ethnic groups squabbling to try and get their share of the nation's dividend.

00:22:23.060 It's impossible.

00:22:25.760 You cannot treasure your beliefs.

00:22:27.880 Okay, this is a very common retort that liberals always say to immigration, and it's what the majority of my English friends say.

00:22:36.640 If I mention to them, for example, London is now 40% white British, does that bother you?

00:22:42.120 Do you have no feelings about that at all?

00:22:44.280 And this is the thing.

00:22:45.060 They have no feelings about that.

00:22:46.640 They don't care.

00:22:47.880 They don't necessarily think it's good.

00:22:49.320 But at the same time, telling them that this is a negative thing is talking Greek.

00:22:53.980 They have no idea of what the consequences of this are.

00:22:58.440 And this is the thing.

00:22:59.580 This is what they don't understand.

00:23:01.500 The question, the very question of why does this matter, is in and of itself a product of their culture.

00:23:07.200 The fact that they are even thinking to say, our demographics don't matter, is the result of the beliefs of their ancestors, is the result of the very specific ideological trends that have created our societies.

00:23:19.180 And it does matter because you're asking the question, why does it matter?

00:23:23.160 As soon as white people become minorities, permanent minorities in these places, very small minorities, no one will be asking the why does it matter question anymore. 0.74

00:23:31.800 All other groups will be trying to maintain their hegemony.

00:23:34.240 Yeah, it's amazing.

00:23:35.940 White people really were the last people to think about race.

00:23:38.660 I mean, I didn't think about it my whole life up until really a few years ago.

00:23:43.420 I mean, seriously, because once you analyze the news and all the propaganda, I started saying, wow, everything is anti-white.

00:23:49.620 So it kind of forced me to get into the question of race.

00:23:53.780 So how did it happen for you?

00:23:55.040 Because maybe some other people, just that switch hasn't flipped.

00:23:58.120 It hasn't dawned on them yet, you know, because I see a lot of people last couple of years, it's just dawned on them.

00:24:02.540 And there's been just floods of people coming in and waking up to what's going on.

00:24:06.800 Yeah, I think the most important thing for many nationalists to remember, because when I was young and I first got involved in nationalism, I was a man on a mission.

00:24:15.940 I think it became almost an obsession.

00:24:18.200 And I wanted to convert everyone.

00:24:20.220 Obviously, that's not going to help.

00:24:21.520 But I think what is helpful for all nationalists to remember, to remember that when they were born and when they were young and when they were teenagers, most likely, perhaps even young adults, they did not share these beliefs.

00:24:33.920 And if someone mentioned these beliefs to them, they would feel a sort of visceral disgust.

00:24:39.740 I remember, this again comes back to the time that Nick Griffin was on Question Time.

00:24:44.640 There was a Facebook group at the time that wanted to ban Nick Griffin from Question Time.

00:24:49.000 And I was just perusing it, seeing what they were saying, seeing what the fuss was about this guy.

00:24:54.520 And they had quotes from Nick Griffin on the side, on the About section.

00:24:59.260 And one of them was Nick Griffin talking about interracial marriage or something like that.

00:25:04.200 And he was saying that it's probably not beneficial for either party.

00:25:09.520 It's not beneficial for the children.

00:25:11.000 And I remember reading that and feeling a really visceral disgust and thinking, how dare this man say this?

00:25:16.160 What a disgusting thing to say.

00:25:17.920 And now I look back on a question like that and I think, yeah, it's probably true. 0.69

00:25:20.880 Whatever.

00:25:21.220 I'm not really that fussed.

00:25:22.100 But it doesn't elicit that guttural response.

00:25:24.980 It's a huge taboo in Western societies to even broach something like that.

00:25:29.920 So I think most people recognize certain differences.

00:25:36.080 Most people do recognize certain differences in behavior.

00:25:39.320 Most would say that this is due to culture rather than genetic predisposition.

00:25:45.600 And regardless of what the cause is, it doesn't really matter.

00:25:48.360 The fact is they exist.

00:25:52.760 I don't think the route for nationalism is going to be in recognizing differences and recognizing the issue of race.

00:25:59.360 I really don't.

00:26:00.580 I think the only way nationalism is really going to get a segue is about in belief in yourself, belief in your own culture, and just the recognition that it's something beautiful and worth preserving.

00:26:12.840 Like the identity movements across Europe.

00:26:15.020 A lot of the youth are into that.

00:26:16.700 I think that's it.

00:26:18.220 To take the example of Casa Pound in Italy, I've gotten many heated discussions with people in Casa Pound over the topic of race, asking them, you know, do they care about it?

00:26:28.780 Do they not?

00:26:29.840 And a lot of them don't care.

00:26:31.620 A lot of them find it a completely irrelevant topic.

00:26:35.080 Because the fact is most people that are not ethnically Italian aren't going to be joining Casa Pound anyway.

00:26:41.440 And it's more of a movement for empowering the indigenous Italians rather than being against the non-indigenous.

00:26:46.600 So I think that's the route to go down.

00:26:51.220 Where it currently stands in America, where it currently stands in England, mass deportations are not going to be occurring anytime soon.

00:26:58.760 These people are in our societies, whether we like it or not.

00:27:02.040 We can hate them.

00:27:02.920 We can rail against them.

00:27:03.920 But frankly, that is very exhausting.

00:27:06.540 The best thing you can do is build networks and stick by your own.

00:27:09.540 That's right.

00:27:10.700 Yeah, it's got to be one of those things where we have to be so convicted of what we believe and who we are and love our culture and our people so much that it doesn't matter what the laws are because you're internally convicted of it, right?

00:27:23.220 So even if the borders were wide open and they throw whatever culture at us, we're firm in who we are and we don't fall susceptible to it, right?

00:27:31.740 Exactly.

00:27:32.280 And it pains me to say this, but a fantastic example of that is the Jews. 1.00

00:27:36.700 Explain.

00:27:38.480 And despite the fact that they have not had a nation state until relatively recently, they've still been able to maintain group identity, group loyalty, and a very intense sense of ethnic pride in who they are.

00:27:48.840 Yeah, it's true.

00:27:49.740 I think, too, as soon as you start saying, like if people talk about race mixing, oh, it should be illegal in the new ethno state. 0.73

00:27:56.520 As soon as you start trying to push laws, that's a bad idea.

00:28:00.200 You know, people are always going to want to break laws.

00:28:02.360 It's just that's just not the way to do it.

00:28:03.760 What do you think?

00:28:04.780 Well, also, the problem with a topic like miscegenation is I don't really know how relevant it is, Lana.

00:28:11.140 It's a relatively small problem.

00:28:13.560 I think it's true.

00:28:14.580 Mass immigration is the problem, really. 0.98

00:28:16.980 Exactly.

00:28:17.380 Exactly, and research actually demonstrates that the more diverse a community is, the more likely they are to marry their own kind rather than veer off differently.

00:28:27.980 So miscegenation is not a problem.

00:28:30.160 I think the nationalists that spend a lot of time talking about miscegenation have their own issues to deal with, I think. 0.92

00:28:38.080 I see it more, I know this is very similar to a leftist argument, oh, if you're against gay people, then you're probably gay yourself.

00:28:44.460 I think a lot of it is due to issues of, I don't know, maybe sexual ostracism and things like that rather than, because it seems to be young men that care most about this sort of thing.

00:28:54.000 Yeah, it's true.

00:28:56.060 Most people are drawn to their own, and really, the numbers aren't as big.

00:29:00.500 I know women, a lot of women do it in America. 1.00

00:29:03.500 You know, they want to get with other guys from other cultures and races because of what they see on TV, right?

00:29:08.540 But I think if they were honest about it, they don't really want that.

00:29:12.100 You know, it's just kind of a trend.

00:29:13.620 But there's always going to be exceptions, you know?

00:29:15.220 We have people that listen that are, you know, interracial marriages, and they love what we do, and they support what we do, and they sympathize with white people.

00:29:24.180 Exactly, exactly.

00:29:25.320 And another thing is, God, sometimes I listen to myself, and I think, what am I saying?

00:29:30.480 But regardless of whether we want to be or not, we are in a multicultural society.

00:29:34.420 And most people that we talk to will have a friend or will have a family member or will know someone in a mixed-race relationship.

00:29:41.220 I just think, don't alienate people like that.

00:29:43.180 We don't need to.

00:29:44.380 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:45.420 I agree.

00:29:46.080 Well, you also did a video, Five Questions for Progressives, and I know they're big questions, but I think it's good because when people are having a conversation with the leftists, they have to hit some of the weak spots, right?

00:29:57.340 I think it's time that we start asking them questions and make them answer for what's going on.

00:30:01.840 Why do they think that they're the morally superior ones, right?

00:30:04.500 So what were some of these questions?

00:30:06.240 What's good to ask a leftist?

00:30:09.240 Why is it a good thing?

00:30:10.660 Why is it morally justifiable to make whites a minority in their lands? 1.00

00:30:18.320 This works to some degree.

00:30:20.040 A lot of – the problem is, is that a lot of left-wing people, or a lot of normal people, shall I say, would say, it's not a good thing.

00:30:27.720 It's not a bad thing.

00:30:28.660 It's just a thing.

00:30:29.540 Who cares?

00:30:30.480 In which case, reframe it.

00:30:32.000 Why is it a bad thing if I object to this?

00:30:34.560 If it's indifferent, if who cares, why does it matter?

00:30:37.540 Then why does it matter if I don't like it?

00:30:40.380 Is immigration a punishment?

00:30:41.560 It's also another good one, because a common reframe you see from people is, well, it was your societies that colonized other communities.

00:30:49.620 It was your society that enacted a horrific foreign policy.

00:30:53.860 Middle Eastern populations take the migrant crisis, for example.

00:30:56.860 So why is it not justified for these people to come here and settle here? 1.00

00:31:00.600 But then the reframe to that, of course, is who are you exactly trying to punish?

00:31:05.800 Because it wasn't us.

00:31:07.460 It wasn't the population at large that voted for these foreign policies.

00:31:11.160 It was the people in power.

00:31:13.160 So you're trying to punish the people in power.

00:31:14.980 But if you are trying to punish the people in power, it's the people in power that are enacting policies of mass immigration as well.

00:31:20.920 Why is that?

00:31:23.940 When is it not racist for whites to start pursuing their ethnic interests? 0.95

00:31:28.080 Are whites forever damned to be an invisible minority if they do become one? 0.85

00:31:33.720 The situation in South Africa, for example, where whites are a huge minority and are facing, basically, a genocide at present. 0.51

00:31:42.500 Malema, very recently, who's a black leader in South Africa, has again inspired blacks to take up arms and start dispossessing whites of their land, saying whites have a right to their land. 0.64

00:31:55.140 Now, can whites pursue their ethnic interests because they're a minority?

00:32:00.760 Can whites pursue their ethnic interests when they're economically disenfranchised?

00:32:05.340 At what point does that become okay? 0.78

00:32:08.780 And then lastly, I think another important one is, are majority white communities immoral? 0.96

00:32:14.060 Because most people that espouse this, that actively espouse this, are living in white majority communities.

00:32:22.200 That's why they're able, that's why they have the privilege, the white privilege, to espouse these ideologies.

00:32:28.400 Now, have you had a lot of luck when you're arguing with leftists?

00:32:31.220 Do you ever ask them some of these questions?

00:32:32.720 I tend not to bother.

00:32:36.480 Do you even argue with leftists is the question, or just walk away, or just throw them out the window?

00:32:41.160 Just laugh.

00:32:41.820 The only time I would ever argue with a leftist is when other people are watching that could learn something from it.

00:32:50.180 Otherwise, it's completely pointless.

00:32:51.900 I remember at a lecture in university, because at university I studied social anthropology, which is a thoroughly Jewish, thoroughly social constructivist, postmodern, poststructuralist field.

00:33:07.020 And in one of the lectures, the professor told us that racism is a product of whiteness.

00:33:12.700 It's impossible to be non-white and racist. 0.96

00:33:16.460 It's impossible to be anti-racist and white. 0.72

00:33:19.120 And there was quite a lot of discord in the class.

00:33:23.320 A lot of whites said, I don't agree with you on this.

00:33:26.320 But I thought there's no point.

00:33:28.220 There's no point in arguing in that way.

00:33:30.140 The only point there is in arguing is making other people that probably feel the same as you not feel as alone, and let them know that other people feel the same.

00:33:38.080 That's the only time.

00:33:39.020 These people are ideologues.

00:33:40.740 There's no point.

00:33:41.300 Their arguments are becoming increasingly irrelevant anyway.

00:33:43.980 Let them tire themselves out, I think.

00:33:45.800 So what kind of luck have you had, and what are your tactics if you're trying to convert friends or family or people that you love that are kind of on the fence?

00:33:55.460 What are some ways that you can kind of open their eyes a bit?

00:33:58.220 I always get this question from different people, because it is good that we work on the friends and family and the circles that we all have, right?

00:34:04.020 One of the worries that I think families are going to have with something like this is they can view it in a bit of a cultish way, as if you've kind of been converted to some sort of fringe religious group or something like that.

00:34:19.940 And the only retouch you can have to this isn't in words, it's in actions. 0.99

00:34:23.700 Just be a normal fucking person. 0.99

00:34:25.840 Don't get loads of tattoos and things like that. 1.00

00:34:28.780 Don't do all you can to alienate yourself.

00:34:32.840 A lot of nationalists do this, especially young nationalists, and I've gone through this phase personally myself.

00:34:39.620 You've just got to be a normal, healthy individual.

00:34:42.420 It's become a bit of a truism to say that nationalist groups look for the disenfranchised, the socially ostracised.

00:34:50.260 It should be the complete opposite.

00:34:51.900 Nationalist groups should go for the healthy, the young, the ambitious, the normal.

00:34:55.300 And I'm not saying that I'm any of these things.

00:34:58.800 I'm just saying that that should be the strategy.

00:35:01.000 You don't want to attract freaks because then you're going to get associated with those people whether you like it or not. 0.96

00:35:07.780 It's one of the perils of identity.

00:35:09.740 Everyone that also ascribes to themselves that identity, you're going to get tarred with the same brush.

00:35:14.660 Yeah, it's true.

00:35:15.800 And I also find sometimes people can, it's almost like there's a religious aspect to it.

00:35:20.200 They can almost become religious zealots, very judgmental even of each other.

00:35:23.960 You know, it's like, it's okay to be laid back and also have a sense of humor and be light and easy about some things, right?

00:35:30.740 Exactly.

00:35:31.180 This is what I found, again, to go back to Casa Pound in Italy, who I think young people could learn a lot from.

00:35:38.280 It's a, I don't like using this as a buzzword, but it's very diverse.

00:35:42.260 People have all sorts of different opinions, different views, but they have the bare bones framework that they can all coalesce around.

00:35:50.580 And that's what we need.

00:35:52.460 It's not about, a lot of people talk about ethnomasochism and things like that, and that whites constantly try and one-up themselves. 0.62

00:35:59.520 Yeah, I really like black people. 1.00

00:36:00.740 Oh, yeah, well, I hate white people. 1.00

00:36:01.980 I hate myself. 1.00

00:36:02.740 I'm more moral than you.

00:36:03.840 And a lot of nationalists kind of do the same.

00:36:05.980 Like, oh, I don't think the Holocaust happened. 0.95

00:36:08.720 Oh, I think the Holocaust happened, and it was a good thing. 1.00

00:36:11.320 It's just stupid. 0.99

00:36:12.740 You don't need to do that to show your fidelity to the cause. 1.00

00:36:16.800 Ideological fidelity, to that extent, is incredibly counterproductive.

00:36:19.860 Again, when it comes to friends and family, if they want to talk about it with you, talk to them about it in a rational, calm way. 0.98

00:36:25.660 Don't be that dick at a dinner table that will not shut up about their politics. 0.99

00:36:31.040 Yeah, don't be that guy. 1.00

00:36:33.220 Exactly.

00:36:34.140 So, I mean, basically simplicity, right?

00:36:36.460 Isn't that the best way to deliver our message that we have?

00:36:39.880 Simplicity, is that what we need, to be more effective, to reach more people, to get out there more?

00:36:44.820 Yeah, simplicity.

00:36:45.960 Remember, the messenger is the message as well.

00:36:48.700 How you present yourself is going to have a much more tangible effect on the way people perceive you and what you're saying than what you're actually saying.

00:36:58.600 The reason why the left has been so successful isn't due to their arguments.

00:37:03.380 It's due to the people spreading the arguments.

00:37:05.700 Things like Live8, for example, Bob Geldof getting all of these musicians, these very talented people, well, talented, subjective, I suppose, but getting all these very high status people pushing the message, regardless of what the message is, is going to help and support the message.

00:37:20.500 Nationalists, again, need to do the same.

00:37:23.760 They need to apply that logic.

00:37:25.540 Again, I've said this before, but be careful about the beliefs you attach to nationalism.

00:37:29.700 Keep it simple.

00:37:30.880 Don't bother going down tangents.

00:37:32.520 Don't bother with revisionism and things like that.

00:37:35.240 They're very interesting.

00:37:36.220 And if you're interested in that, go ahead, do it, but don't attach it to your nationalism.

00:37:41.160 Another thing as well, don't be rational in your beliefs. 0.81

00:37:43.900 That may sound ridiculous, but be as pragmatic as possible.

00:37:46.540 Think, okay, this may be the right thing to do, morally speaking, but is it actually going to help nationalism?

00:37:52.640 And if the answer to that is no, don't do it.

00:37:55.480 Another thing, just be positive, healthy, engaging, lively, interactive.

00:37:59.260 Just enjoy it.

00:38:00.060 Life is play, I think.

00:38:01.820 Don't get wound up.

00:38:03.140 Don't get aggressive.

00:38:03.860 Don't get upset.

00:38:04.580 Don't be depressed.

00:38:05.660 Just have fun.

00:38:06.480 See the struggle as an end in and of itself.

00:38:09.300 Don't see it as a means to anything.

00:38:10.860 Yeah, people are not drawn to downers.

00:38:12.880 They want to be with people that are happy and winning and look good and are positive.

00:38:18.400 And we're not going to win them over by being down in the dumps all the time, right?

00:38:22.200 Exactly.

00:38:22.700 And that's why things like TRS and Red Ice, what you're doing, are good.

00:38:27.780 They bring humor.

00:38:28.920 They bring social networks and things like that.

00:38:31.200 People have communities that they can actually engage with rather than being locked up in their bedroom listening to a screwdriver.

00:38:37.260 I think, too, we should ride the wave of Brexit and this whole Trump phenomena.

00:38:42.260 And I think a lot of those people, especially when I look at a lot of the Trump people, they're ready for a nationalist message.

00:38:48.000 They're ready to hear what we have to offer.

00:38:50.120 So I think if we can simplify and just kind of start with, you know, step one, I think would be more effective in bringing those people in.

00:38:57.600 What do you think?

00:38:58.940 Exactly.

00:38:59.300 It basically just shifts the parameters at which discourse can take place.

00:39:05.640 So before it would have been, like, Trump mentioned the word nationalist not too long ago in one of his speeches.

00:39:09.840 Now, that would have been absolutely unheard of until very, very recently.

00:39:14.060 And it's these little baby steps in shifting the discourse.

00:39:17.260 And it takes a long time and it's boring and it's cumbersome.

00:39:20.200 And it's very frustrating, especially when we know that time is not on our side.

00:39:23.960 But it's the only way to do it.

00:39:25.880 It's like Brexit again.

00:39:27.000 I'm not overly enthusiastic about Brexit.

00:39:29.880 I'm enthusiastic in the sense that it happened and the people voted for it.

00:39:33.800 And that's an amazing thing.

00:39:36.180 But the people that didn't vote for it are a much more vocal group of people and have much more political clout than the people that did.

00:39:44.040 The Brexit vote, Kevin MacDonald said, was about implicit whiteness.

00:39:48.760 And I don't know if I agree with that.

00:39:51.980 I think it's a battle of whitenesses, a pan-European whiteness that denies itself, a pan-European whiteness that sees it as human. 0.76

00:40:00.620 But the category of human in and of itself is a white one, if you'll forgive me dropping that massive thing at this point. 0.66

00:40:07.020 But it's a conflict in the interests of various whites.

00:40:11.260 Regardless of anything, it was a white vote.

00:40:13.680 And people on both sides, I've already mentioned before how a leftist white identity isn't of itself a white identity.

00:40:18.540 It's just an identity in the fact that it has been denied as one.

00:40:22.340 So, yeah, that's the tricky thing. 0.96

00:40:26.120 You know, whites were so damn complicated. 0.99

00:40:27.940 We can't just unite like, oh, we're white. 0.97

00:40:29.940 Let's unite.

00:40:30.660 Let's get along.

00:40:31.540 You know what I mean?

00:40:32.200 We have all these little interests and we're so damn picky about everything.

00:40:36.220 So I always wonder, I mean, is it going to be nationalism or is it going to end up being tribalism at this point?

00:40:40.900 You know, I think tribalism is probably a bit more likely.

00:40:46.920 A long time ago, I wrote an article called Maybe I Should Be on the Left.

00:40:50.780 And one of the points I made in that article is talking about ethnic identity.

00:40:55.840 If I'm discussing these issues with people, I get a much more positive response with it,

00:41:01.160 talking to a non-white person or talking to someone from a sexual minority.

00:41:06.560 And that's because these people understand the need for identity.

00:41:10.180 These people have had to go through historic struggles based on their blackness,

00:41:13.760 based on their gayness, based on their transness, etc.

00:41:16.940 Whereas middle class whites have never had to do that. 0.85

00:41:19.520 And me instantly saying to a middle class white, you're white. 0.78

00:41:23.160 Don't you think you have any political interest?

00:41:24.840 Don't you want to mobilize or secure a place in this nation for your future, for your progeny?

00:41:29.600 And that's unheard of to them. 0.97

00:41:31.040 But if I talk to a black person about these issues or talk to a Muslim or talk to a gay person, 0.51

00:41:36.680 then they understand because they have these identity categories and they value them a lot.

00:41:40.880 So then that raises the question is, how practical is this belief in my preservation of whiteness

00:41:47.460 when it is explicit, if it alienates me from the majority of whites?

00:41:51.320 It's a really difficult question to deal with, I think.

00:41:54.280 Yeah, that's a tough one. 0.93

00:41:55.480 And then you have cucks, you know, little white cucks that are just like, 0.99

00:41:58.260 no, just don't talk about race. 0.99

00:42:00.020 They have a problem with all those other groups because they are identitarian.

00:42:03.440 Like it's a bad thing, right?

00:42:04.580 They look at it like it's bad to have an identity.

00:42:06.780 We should all just get along and just buy the same stuff, right?

00:42:11.260 Who do you define as cucks in that sentence?

00:42:14.000 There's a couple of people.

00:42:15.060 I mean, cuckservatives.

00:42:15.900 When I look at American Republicans, that's probably, they're very cuckservative to me.

00:42:20.560 I don't know how much you follow American politics.

00:42:23.260 Not so much, but I know what you're referring to, a kind of neocon.

00:42:26.340 Oh, yeah.

00:42:28.240 There's, I'm sure you're familiar with Sargon of Akkad.

00:42:30.980 Sure, yeah.

00:42:32.220 I like him a lot.

00:42:33.260 And a lot of nationalists, I think, like him a lot.

00:42:36.780 Recently, he's been engaging with millennial woes a lot over nationalism and things like that.

00:42:41.980 But the tendency among nationalists is to side a lot more with someone like Sargon of Akkad

00:42:47.180 than the average SJW warrior.

00:42:50.320 And I kind of think nationalists have got that all wrong.

00:42:54.560 SJW warriors are incredibly useful for us.

00:42:57.280 We like them, or we should like them, I think, because at least they acknowledge race.

00:43:01.100 And that's half our argument one for us. 0.97

00:43:02.820 They create a white identity by positing whites to be so terrible. 0.86

00:43:06.800 Sargon of Akkad, on the other hand, says, no, it's completely irrelevant. 0.98

00:43:09.680 Whites shouldn't identify as whites. 1.00

00:43:10.860 Blacks shouldn't identify as blacks. 1.00

00:43:12.560 We're just people. 0.98

00:43:13.520 I think that's going to be more deleterious to what we're trying to do.

00:43:17.220 Interesting.

00:43:17.900 So how would you even begin to approach an SJW on these issues when they're like,

00:43:23.160 a lot of them are blatantly anti-white, right?

00:43:26.220 They are. 0.95

00:43:26.960 I'm not saying approach them.

00:43:28.400 I'm saying, for example, they're putting us in a fortunate position, I'm saying, in terms

00:43:35.260 especially of university establishments.

00:43:38.740 Again, I went to a university that was incredibly left-leaning.

00:43:42.940 I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it is the most left-wing establishment in the

00:43:46.920 UK.

00:43:47.660 It is based in London.

00:43:49.120 Anyone that knows anything about British universities will know which university I was at by me saying

00:43:53.620 that, white people now are being taught to analyze their whiteness, to recognize their

00:44:01.200 whiteness in university establishments.

00:44:03.260 That is a seed that is very important for them to be planting.

00:44:06.820 It helps us to be planting it.

00:44:08.820 The moment a white person recognizes their whiteness, it gives us the opportunity to renegotiate

00:44:14.300 what is constitutive of their whiteness, what makes up their whiteness. 0.51

00:44:17.700 If people are denying their whiteness completely, then that's much more difficult for us to

00:44:23.460 approach.

00:44:24.340 Again, it goes back to this, why does it matter?

00:44:26.200 Why does it matter question?

00:44:27.760 If I say whites are a minority and someone says, why does it matter?

00:44:30.640 Then I have to go, oh yeah, but you have ethnic identity, you're white, blah, blah, blah. 0.79

00:44:33.320 I have to go into a lot more detail.

00:44:34.700 If someone says, yeah, I know, and that's a good thing, I think, okay, at least you recognize

00:44:38.240 that you're white and you could possibly have some interest.

00:44:40.880 I say, yeah, that's a good way of looking at it.

00:44:43.420 Try and be positive.

00:44:44.380 Yeah, absolutely.

00:44:45.100 Yeah, and that's something I always get to, people always say, give me something positive,

00:44:48.840 give me something hopeful, give me solutions.

00:44:51.100 And how I see that is everyone has to do that on their own.

00:44:54.520 You know, it's called a lot of work.

00:44:56.480 I think a lot of people kind of want some magical dictator to come and fix everything,

00:45:00.620 right?

00:45:00.760 A lot of people don't want to do the work, but the road that we have before us, it's long

00:45:05.240 and it's hard.

00:45:05.860 I mean, we're talking about reigniting our culture again, right?

00:45:09.720 And kind of being trailblazers and it's going to take a lot of work.

00:45:12.880 What do you think when people come to you and say, tell me something hopeful, give me

00:45:15.900 solutions?

00:45:16.840 What do you say?

00:45:19.160 There's no hope.

00:45:20.020 I don't think you need hope.

00:45:21.620 Hope is kind of useless because the moment you invoke hope, you're denying your own path.

00:45:26.140 Again, it's like saying you've got to do what you can.

00:45:28.000 Again, if you're talking about hope, you're assuming that everything is out of your control.

00:45:32.960 It's not out of your control. 0.97

00:45:34.820 But again, even if everything goes to shit and we fail and our nations decline, irreversibly 0.91

00:45:42.780 speaking, and we find ourselves in an absolutely hellish situation, at least you tried, okay? 0.99

00:45:48.200 Your hope is useless.

00:45:49.580 Don't ask people for hope.

00:45:50.760 That's not going to solve anything.

00:45:52.440 Just enjoy it and see this whole thing as a game.

00:45:55.500 That's not to trivialize it, but there's honestly nothing else you can do.

00:45:58.660 Just laugh at the spectacle.

00:46:00.020 Enjoy the spectacle.

00:46:01.340 What the majority of people do is out of your control.

00:46:03.940 It will always be out of your control.

00:46:06.200 There's little baby steps that you can take.

00:46:08.260 You need to hope that other people, I use the word hope, you need to expect other people

00:46:15.560 to be taking those baby steps also.

00:46:18.400 And that's how change is enacted.

00:46:20.060 Loads of, you know, subtle chipping away of the system.

00:46:23.060 It's true.

00:46:23.480 It's happening now.

00:46:24.380 It's already happening.

00:46:25.500 And people have to work on your own life, right?

00:46:27.460 You have to work on your own family, your own marriages, build up your own careers, become

00:46:31.720 successful in your own right, right? 0.99

00:46:33.460 Get your own shit together, right? 0.99

00:46:35.120 And if everyone did that and you surround yourself by other people like that, then you're going 1.00

00:46:38.780 to start to draw other white people who are like, hmm, I want that kind of life. 0.65

00:46:42.480 I want to be around those kinds of people.

00:46:43.840 We have to basically say this all the time, become who other people want to be like, right?

00:46:47.700 Exactly, exactly.

00:46:48.920 Exactly.

00:46:49.480 Exactly.

00:46:50.420 And at present, again, I can draw on my experience in Italy.

00:46:56.080 I've met nationalists in Sweden also.

00:46:58.420 Yeah, where you're from, they're very healthy, very lively, very charismatic people, very normal

00:47:03.920 people.

00:47:04.640 The situation in the UK is very different from that.

00:47:10.100 The most important thing is to build community.

00:47:12.080 Community in itself is going to create hope because you've got something tangible to cling

00:47:15.400 on to.

00:47:15.700 Say, well, this is mine and it's not going anywhere.

00:47:17.920 These people are going to stick by me.

00:47:19.200 Like, that's all you can really do.

00:47:22.060 Build community.

00:47:23.220 That's true.

00:47:23.520 You've got to build your tribe.

00:47:24.580 I see a lot of people get kind of gloom and doom and we've got to shake out of that.

00:47:28.640 You've got to get that depression out.

00:47:30.060 You have to find friends like you.

00:47:31.680 You have to keep your spirits up.

00:47:33.240 You have to work on it.

00:47:34.080 I think that that's very important.

00:47:36.840 Exactly.

00:47:37.480 And people that are in situations, a lot of people can retort and say, well, there is no

00:47:41.840 one like me.

00:47:43.680 But there are.

00:47:45.500 There are going to be other people out there.

00:47:46.740 Yeah, of course.

00:47:47.060 They're going to be the least vocal people, though, because people that are vocal about

00:47:51.780 these, again, we're coming back to the paradox, because the people that tend to be most vocal

00:47:56.700 about these issues are the people with nothing to lose, are the people that are not going

00:48:01.800 to be, this is a huge generalization.

00:48:04.140 And of course, there are innumerable, very healthy people in nationalism.

00:48:08.580 But the people that are most vocal are probably going to be the people that see themselves as

00:48:13.460 having nothing to lose.

00:48:14.280 And so they may as well.

00:48:16.520 Yeah.

00:48:16.620 So remember that the people that you're most likely going to assimilate with, that you're

00:48:21.540 most likely going to get on with, are going to be those that are going to be stepping

00:48:24.380 back, aren't going to be saying anything, but they're out there.

00:48:27.520 It's just up to you to find them.

00:48:29.220 Now, do you have a pretty good network?

00:48:30.500 Are you connecting with other people your age, other nationalists around Europe?

00:48:34.340 Or is there a pretty good network?

00:48:35.640 Or is it pretty much just you have one in Italy, one in England?

00:48:38.740 Or are they all coming together at times?

00:48:40.300 I know Generation Identity has planned some events where people from other countries have come

00:48:44.180 and attended.

00:48:44.600 I can't really speak on that too much.

00:48:48.520 I have a fair few friends in England that are nationalists.

00:48:51.940 They, again, it's quite a close-knit group.

00:48:54.060 There's the Legion camp as well in England.

00:48:56.640 I advise anyone listening to this that is based in the UK that is interested in hiking,

00:49:02.140 martial arts, things like that, to attend a Legion camp, Legion Mac.

00:49:05.800 If you Google search that, you will find us.

00:49:09.920 That's an incredibly positive development in England.

00:49:12.880 So I would advise anyone, again, to get in touch and try and take part in that.

00:49:18.080 In Italy as well, since being here, I've made a lot of contacts at Casa Pound.

00:49:22.780 Again, I can't stress enough, you have to be proactive.

00:49:25.420 You can't expect these people to find you.

00:49:27.780 You need to go looking for them.

00:49:29.860 Yep.

00:49:30.600 Well, last question for you.

00:49:31.760 I want to get your take.

00:49:32.980 Politics.

00:49:33.640 We need to get involved, right?

00:49:34.800 We need to get a foothold in there.

00:49:36.320 Of course, Europe.

00:49:37.220 We have to take back our governments or try and get in there.

00:49:39.920 What are your thoughts on the political system?

00:49:42.660 Do you think nationalists have a chance to get in there?

00:49:44.700 Is that likely?

00:49:45.520 Is it ever going to happen?

00:49:46.920 It's becoming increasingly unlikely.

00:49:49.020 As time passes, due to demographics alone, it's going to become an impossibility, I think.

00:49:57.060 London, for example, will never have a Conservative mayor again.

00:50:00.840 Yeah.

00:50:01.300 That is an incredibly unlikely scenario.

00:50:04.360 The same is going to apply to places like Birmingham, Manchester, Bradford, major cities

00:50:10.620 throughout the UK.

00:50:11.960 And there is very, very little hope politically of doing that.

00:50:16.880 So on that basis alone, I think you're wasting your time with democratic politics.

00:50:24.780 This isn't to say the situation is hopeless.

00:50:27.640 I'm not really suggesting that.

00:50:30.240 But I'm saying that there are more proactive ways to mobilize white people.

00:50:35.100 Again, to come back to building community, that's the most important thing.

00:50:39.400 That's the only way you're really going to serve white interests. 0.93

00:50:43.880 The only way it's going to happen is if whites start voting as a demographic bloc.

00:50:48.820 And the Brexit vote proves, I mean, it was pretty much a 50-50 split.

00:50:52.700 That kind of proves that whites are definitely not acting as a demographic bloc.

00:50:56.760 They are very, very split.

00:50:58.640 And so the chances of finding a community where whites make up a significant minority, but

00:51:04.640 not the majority, and also all those whites are going to be voting in tandem with each

00:51:08.400 other, is very unlikely.

00:51:10.380 But I don't see that as necessarily hopeless, Lana.

00:51:13.040 I don't really see that as a terrible thing in and of itself.

00:51:16.660 Democracy hasn't changed anything.

00:51:18.860 In the last 20 years or so, Britain hasn't changed substantially due to parliamentary democracy.

00:51:23.800 The Labour government themselves admitted that between, I think it was 1997 and 2004 or some

00:51:31.280 such periods, that they purposefully imported millions of immigrants to rub the right's nose 0.76

00:51:36.080 in.

00:51:36.560 Yeah, I remember that.

00:51:38.120 As they say explicitly.

00:51:39.260 So they know exactly what they're doing, and they're trying to make it an impossibility.

00:51:43.240 We basically need to show them that it doesn't really matter, and that actually real political

00:51:47.380 power isn't the ballot box.

00:51:49.620 It's on the ground.

00:51:50.340 It's boots on the ground, it's people sticking together and helping each other.

00:51:54.780 You've got to build parallel systems.

00:51:57.520 Yeah, I think that's a good answer.

00:51:59.080 Sharia law court is the answer. 0.61

00:52:02.540 Yeah, wasn't it, you just had, was it Theresa May?

00:52:06.200 Was it Theresa May that just said that about, that Britons can benefit greatly from Sharia law? 0.95

00:52:12.580 Yeah, yeah.

00:52:13.700 British Muslims could benefit greatly.

00:52:14.960 But to be honest, British Muslims, again, this again raises a problem, because British 1.00

00:52:22.760 Muslims do benefit greatly from Sharia law courts, because they're able to preserve their

00:52:28.280 cultural identity through British law courts, I'm sorry, Sharia law courts. 0.99

00:52:31.660 They're able to preserve who they are through Sharia law courts.

00:52:35.240 So they kind of do, probably for the complete opposite reasons that Theresa May is saying,

00:52:40.960 but they do.

00:52:42.100 And I have a problem with people on the right saying, oh no, we should really object to Sharia

00:52:47.460 law courts because they're so horrible for these Muslim women, etc. 1.00

00:52:50.960 Don't concern yourself with Muslim women. 1.00

00:52:52.800 They're irrelevant to us. 0.99

00:52:54.640 I don't really care what the plight is of Muslim women, to be honest.

00:52:58.560 That's their issue in their communities.

00:53:00.380 I don't want to dabble.

00:53:01.300 I don't want to get involved in the identity politics of other ethnic groups, Sharia law 1.00

00:53:06.040 courts, whatever.

00:53:06.920 As long as they're confined to Islamic people doing their Islamic thing, fine. 1.00

00:53:10.780 I don't care.

00:53:11.980 Man, England is just getting so crowded, though.

00:53:14.100 I think all these people need to get, they need to go home eventually.

00:53:17.400 You know, OK, war's over, everybody.

00:53:19.220 Go back home, right?

00:53:21.300 It's not going to happen, though, Lana.

00:53:22.980 Ever?

00:53:23.500 You think it'll ever happen?

00:53:24.760 I mean, Europe's dealt with invasions before, right?

00:53:28.440 Muslim invasions, and they've chased people out before. 0.99

00:53:31.360 I know these are different times.

00:53:32.820 I know.

00:53:33.360 You don't think that's ever going to happen, though?

00:53:35.940 It would need such a monumental shift in affect in Western people to suddenly regard

00:53:42.680 it as ethical to uproot people, some of which have been here for more than one generation,

00:53:48.340 a lot of which were born here.

00:53:50.840 Problem of where do you send them?

00:53:52.420 The logistical issues, it's a possibility, and it's not one that I'm ethically against

00:53:58.540 if the situation continues to deteriorate.

00:54:01.620 But I think, for example, to take America, repatriation in America isn't going to happen.

00:54:08.400 You're not going to get an all-white or a vast majority-white America. 0.74

00:54:11.300 Again, people are going to segment into different communities.

00:54:13.700 Either that will happen through secession or that will happen naturally, as it already is. 1.00

00:54:18.580 Same shit in London. 1.00

00:54:19.700 White flight, of course, is a huge issue. 1.00

00:54:21.560 600,000 white British have fled London in the last 10 years or so alone.

00:54:28.520 So I don't think it will become necessary.

00:54:32.160 Unfortunately, I think we're going to be in a situation where it will be tribalistic, mostly.

00:54:37.940 The ideal situation in that instance is tribalistic communities that get on quite well are able

00:54:43.840 to interact with each other but are able to maintain those degrees of separation because

00:54:47.820 they recognize that ultimately that separation is necessary for harmony.

00:54:52.820 And this is the thing.

00:54:54.480 People need to respect differences.

00:54:56.080 People need to respect separation.

00:54:58.360 Anyone that says humans are the same and can and should live together and not place importance

00:55:04.880 on these categories, on these cultural differences, is immoral as far as I can see.

00:55:10.040 They're denying the right of these groups to exist.

00:55:12.820 I just have to ask, I mean, as an Englishman, doesn't it drive you mad at times?

00:55:17.000 I know you're not there right now, but when you see what's happening to your country, I

00:55:20.860 mean, what do you think when you walk down the streets of London now?

00:55:24.360 I mean, how does one not feel completely peeved about it?

00:55:30.480 It's, yeah, especially someone that lives in London or lived in London.

00:55:33.760 You can't feel peeved about it, though, Lana.

00:55:37.220 You've got to numb yourself to it because then everything else goes out the window and

00:55:41.380 you just kind of want to just throw in the towel and think, forget it.

00:55:44.740 Or just rage.

00:55:46.100 Yeah.

00:55:46.560 Or just rage.

00:55:47.320 And again, that's not going to help us.

00:55:49.700 Any act of violence is only going to hinder our efforts.

00:55:55.040 I think treat people as people, be as civil as you can be, and try and get on with your

00:56:02.100 life.

00:56:03.760 Again, build communities, stick by your own.

00:56:07.680 It's not going to help anyone to talk about how terrible the situation is.

00:56:11.540 It's really not.

00:56:12.620 So I'd rather not talk about the visceral emotional responses that walking through the

00:56:20.420 streets of London can incite.

00:56:21.880 Yeah, it's true.

00:56:22.400 It can wear you out.

00:56:23.440 It wears you out.

00:56:24.640 And it's definitely true. 0.99

00:56:25.460 You have to be careful where you poise your mind.

00:56:27.780 It's a very, very tiresome, tiring emotion.

00:56:30.820 There is a good time and place for it.

00:56:32.440 But yeah, but you don't want it every day when you're out running errands.

00:56:35.320 You know, it's just like, yay.

00:56:37.320 I'm going to buy some milk.

00:56:38.560 I don't want to be invoking thoughts of genocide in my brain.

00:56:41.880 Yeah, exactly.

00:56:43.100 I have to say, though, I've been thinking about it a lot.

00:56:44.980 And sometimes I have nightmares about it.

00:56:46.420 You know, thinking, oh, my God, what if there was no white country on the planet?

00:56:49.700 What if everything just turned into like third world danger?

00:56:53.980 You know, that just freaks me out.

00:56:54.960 But I know we're not going to let that happen.

00:56:56.600 There's pockets of us that are way too smart for that.

00:56:59.880 Especially when it comes to things like 24.

00:57:04.140 No thoughts of children yet.

00:57:06.320 But especially when I think about my future.

00:57:08.540 Do I want to have children?

00:57:09.920 Do I want to have grandchildren?

00:57:11.000 Of course, the best thing any indigenous European can do is have children.

00:57:15.420 That's the most important thing to do.

00:57:18.080 But then I think, but going to school, being around the society as it currently stands.

00:57:25.740 Get that out of your head.

00:57:27.020 Get that out of your head.

00:57:27.980 If our ancestors can do it, you can do it.

00:57:30.700 Right.

00:57:32.340 Build community and then you can have a good village help raise the kids.

00:57:35.680 Right.

00:57:36.320 Exactly.

00:57:36.920 Exactly.

00:57:38.320 All right.

00:57:38.980 Well, any closing thoughts?

00:57:40.600 I know I definitely want you to share your website and your YouTube channel and tell us

00:57:44.580 what you have going on.

00:57:46.300 No closing thoughts, really.

00:57:47.520 I've exhausted myself.

00:57:48.980 But you can find me on YouTube, state of nation, all one word.

00:57:54.920 Talk to me.

00:57:55.680 I'm incredibly lonely.

00:57:58.300 Yeah, but you have a girlfriend, right?

00:58:00.040 Okay.

00:58:00.520 Well, thanks so much.

00:58:01.360 It's been a pleasure.

00:58:02.300 I really enjoyed it and we'll have to do it again sometime.

00:58:04.440 Okay.

00:58:05.140 Okay.

00:58:05.500 Perfect.

00:58:05.800 Thank you, Lana.

00:58:06.900 He's young, offers a fresh perspective and maintains an overall lightness about him.

00:58:10.960 The trick is to not become a Debbie Downer when discussing what looks like a grim future

00:58:15.340 for white people.

00:58:16.680 We're not going to win over newcomers with a down in the dumps attitude.

00:58:20.200 It's one thing to assess the negative aspects, but it's another thing to be defeatist about

00:58:24.280 them.

00:58:24.540 I, for one, refuse to give up and say it's over.

00:58:27.460 White people are survivors.

00:58:29.060 We've been through a lot and will continue to thrive against all odds.

00:58:32.980 Just look at our amazing history so far.

00:58:35.400 We've achieved things that no other people have.

00:58:38.100 Speaking from a woman's perspective, no woman wants to be with the guy with a downer outlook.

00:58:42.860 She wants to be with a strong man who can offer a vision for a prosperous future.

00:58:47.640 One who can laugh in the face of the enemy and blaze a path to a better world.

00:58:52.080 Sure, things are pretty gloom when we look around, but there's good things happening as

00:58:55.620 well.

00:58:56.240 Let's face it. 0.96

00:58:56.920 Our people have needed a good shaking, a good slap in the face. 0.98

00:59:00.400 We've become complacent, out of touch with nature, and unfit in so many ways.

00:59:04.940 We can use what is happening now to ignite a fire once again in our people.

00:59:09.640 We aren't the people in the weak position.

00:59:11.220 We're not the ones crying to other nations to take care of us like so many foreigners 1.00

00:59:15.720 crawling to our countries.

00:59:17.640 We can build something better, and I'm happy to be a pioneer in that new civilization because

00:59:22.480 this one has become toxic to our people.

00:59:24.940 So be glad it's going down and will take the best with us.

00:59:28.260 It's important to simplify.

00:59:30.200 Let's go back to the basics to win over so many disgruntled European people looking for 0.75

00:59:35.400 a tribe, looking for answers and wanting solutions.

00:59:38.480 We can provide that to them.

00:59:39.780 So I think it is wise when trying to win over newcomers to cut out the advanced topics

00:59:44.080 they can come to later.

00:59:45.500 I know we're getting it from every angle possible, but when winning over new people,

00:59:48.940 keep it simple.

00:59:49.840 Teach the basics of mass immigration into white countries, the lie of multiculturalism, and 0.98

00:59:55.080 the double standards imposed only on white people.

00:59:58.300 When talking to new people, keep it simple and repeat it.

01:00:01.000 It really can break the spell.

01:00:03.280 Get them hooked.

01:00:04.140 Then refer them to shows like this one and many others.

01:00:06.740 Thanks for listening, and please consider signing up for a Red Ice membership to get full access

01:00:11.500 and help us grow.

01:00:12.680 We need your help.

01:00:13.720 There's so much work to do, and I'm full of ideas and what to do, but we need the manpower

01:00:18.300 and the resources.

01:00:20.080 Redicemembers.com is where you can go to sign up.

01:00:22.720 Redice.tv is the website where we host all our free content, which is most of what we do.

01:00:28.140 Have a great night, everyone.

01:00:29.340 We'll talk soon.

01:00:30.160 We'll talk soon.

01:00:40.780 We'll talk soon.

01:00:41.980 We'll talk soon.

01:00:42.920 We'll talk soon.

01:00:48.040 We'll talk soon.

01:00:48.640 We'll talk soon.

01:00:51.520 Thank you.

01:01:21.520 Thank you.

01:01:51.520 Thank you.

01:02:21.520 Thank you.

Radio 3Fourteen - July 13, 2016

Nationalism_ Keeping It Simple

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