Pro-White Christianity _ How Church Has Become Anti-White
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Summary
Adam and Mary Gray, hosts of the show Good Morning White America, explain how they came to be pro-white and anti-Christian. They talk about their upbringing in Christian homes, their views on multiculturalism and multiculturalism, and how their views differ from those of modern day Christians.
Transcript
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Welcome, ladies and gents. I'm Lana, your hostess for the next hour. The show will focus
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on pro-white, alt-right Christianity. How did the mainstream church become so anti-white?
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While I myself appreciate pre-Christian tradition and spirituality, I know many of our
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listeners are Christians, but many are also opposed to Christianity for its all-inclusiveness.
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There's no way around it. The alt-right is diverse when it comes to spirituality,
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but there are big things we do have in common when it comes to the future of Europeans.
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My guests are Adam and Mary Gray from the show Good Morning, White America, which explores the
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idea of being pro-white and Christian. Mary is also the author of a children's book called Walls and
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Fences. The book gives an easy explanation of national borders, self-defense, and property
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rights for young kids. I ask Adam and Mary about some of the common, kucky responses used by modern
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day Christians, such as this big one. We're all God's children and home is in heaven, so open borders
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and multiculturalism is good. They also offer their view on the concept of turning the other cheek,
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the relationship between Jews and Christianity, and Jesus as a Jew. But I also ask about the effects
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of Christianity as a global faith, and also how they relate to our pre-Christian ancestors.
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I think this conversation is a happy middle between paganism and pro-white Christianity.
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Adam and Mary Gray, welcome. Thanks for being here.
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So it's Adam like Adam and Eve, and Mary like Mary and Joseph, right?
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Well, I have to say, my dad, I can top you there, because my dad's parents were Mary and
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So Adam, you said that you had to go through a wide-ranging search of, you know, religious
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and philosophical and political systems in order to find where you are now. So tell us about
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Sure. And yeah, yeah. So I grew up in a nominally Christian household, went to church now and then,
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but didn't have, really, it was just like something you did. And it wasn't even like
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every week or something. I basically knew nothing except, by the time I was about 13,
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I basically knew nothing about God, except that there was, like, I heard there was one,
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there's this place you go, there's this cross in the sky who died for me, and you take communion.
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And that was literally about it. Until about, right around 13, God became very, very real
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to me. And so at that point, that's when I started to pick up the Bible and try to figure
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it out. I had nobody to show me anything. And it was like, I compare the next, like, five
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or six years of my life to, like, God randomly, like, dropping parachutes with little truths,
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or little red pills, we'll call it that. Like, a little red pill, maybe once every couple of years.
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So that got me from being, like, a real relativist and pluralist, thinking that all paths led to God.
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And you can be, I was pro-choice. I was pro-abortion, you know. I grew up in a Democrat household,
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hardcore. Not totally SJW, but not far off, to be honest with you. I was very much on that trajectory.
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Um, but, but by the middle of college, I had gotten sorted out to the point where I was like,
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oh, no, the Bible is inerrant. I can trust it. It is my authority. Um, and so I learned
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kind of like the standard evangelical core doctrines. Jesus is the only way, you know,
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read the Bible, pray, spread the gospel, those sorts of things, be pure, morally pure,
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um, those sorts of things. And that really helped me out a lot. Then I ran into my missus here,
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um, a couple of years after that. And then we kind of together morphed, um, into being more
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explicitly Protestant, reformed Christians. Um, and then after that, um, we got red-pilled on
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race and on the JQ. Uh, and I can talk a little bit more about that, but, um, but, but, but in that,
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in those years where I, like I said, like I was still like really kind of lost, um, I went down a lot,
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a lot of wrong paths, thankfully not too destructive. Um, but I definitely dabbled in,
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uh, uh, like religious, religiously and philosophically and things that I,
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things that are invading Europe and America right now, put it that way. Um, things that
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are undermining our civilization. So I definitely looked into Judaism, Islam, uh, secularism,
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hedonism, communism, um, looked into all those things and like, kind of like stuck my toe in those
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waters. Um, but again, thankfully, like I could never, I could never turn away from the cross.
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Once I got that on an emotional and intellectual level, um, I was literally like, I could not turn
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away if I wanted to. And it's, and it's been that way ever since. So for me, God is somebody that,
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and the word of God, the Bible is something where I can run as hard as I can in the opposite
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direction, but I have to admit that that's true. And I got to come back no matter, no matter what.
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As a hold on you. And it's true when you, as a couple, when you're on the same page spiritually,
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that's very important. And then you wake up to these things politically, it really binds you as a
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couple. It makes you very strong. I say that when you both understand that there's an existential
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threat, you know, you really work hard together. Now, Mary, what about your background? Were you
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always Christian and more kind of on the alt-right side of things, or what was it like for you?
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Okay. So I grew up in, um, church definitely. Um, and I went to a non-denominational,
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national inner city church. And so it had a lot of minorities and, um, a lot of mixed couples and
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was really, um, I mean, I, I was like a hardcore cuck. I was, I was definitely a good little girl,
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you know, and I would correct my parents if I thought they were saying something racist.
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So I was just really trying to do what I thought was right, you know, um, and, and Christian and
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everything. Um, and then Adam and I got married and about three years into our marriage, he started
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to look at these websites that kind of got me concerned because they were alt-right ish.
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Yeah, they were, yeah, exactly. And so I'm like, Oh no, what is happening to my husband?
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You know, I was like, ah, I'm terrified, you know? Um, but the more I, I, I just, I tried very hard to
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stay open. I was, I was scared, but I really wanted to be, have an open relationship with
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him. And, um, we both had established that, you know, if it's true, we're going to follow
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after it, no matter what, no matter the sacrifices that would have to be made. And, um, so I was
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open and I think my turning point came when I asked him, okay, well, you know, what would
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you do with all of the people that are non-white, but are Christian, you know? And, um, he said,
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well, they can have their own society. They can have their own place to live just over
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there, like their own place to live. There's no reason why we can't have our own place.
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And after I heard that, I was like, Oh, okay. So you're not like one of those evil racists
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that, you know, kill everyone. Cause really what we want is just a place for ourselves.
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We want a place to raise our children and have them be proud to be white. You know,
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there's no shame in that. And so, um, that, that was definitely my turning point. Then I
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started to be more open to it. And we read a lot of Cambria will not yield. And there's
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this great story in one of his posts and it talks about, um, water buffaloes right there.
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It was, yeah, it was water buffaloes and just how, um, the other water buffaloes totally
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wussed out and, um, let what was going to let one of the younger ones be eaten by an
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alligator. I know it's like random, but it's going to be eaten by an alligator and one water
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buffalo stood up and saved him. And all the other water buffaloes are like, no, you need
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to love the alligators. They're, you know, creatures too. And yada, yada, yada. And so, um,
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anyway, just the whole idea of this is for protecting your children. This is, you know,
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it's, it's, I mean, what's more important than taking care of your kids? How can you
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And a lot of liberals and cucks are in denial that they think it'll be fine for your kids.
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It'll just be like it is today. If they're a minority, nothing's going to change. This
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is what they think. Right. But it is, everything is changing already.
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Absolutely. I mean, just look down the road, just a couple of years and just, I mean, even,
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even look back a couple of years, see how much has changed and consider what's going to happen
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in the next couple of years. I mean, it's just crazy that people can't see this, that they're
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so blind to believing this race, uh, lie that we're all the same and that everything's going
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to be tra la la all fine. So anyway, so yeah, definitely to that. I grew up very Christian and
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pretty much every relative I have today is still Christian. Luckily my aunts and uncles, they're
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really easy to talk to about a lot of pro-white alt-right topics, but they're children. I noticed
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my younger cousins are not, you just can't talk to them about some of these things. And when I grew
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up in church, they weren't anti-white and they actually in the churches that I knew, they viewed
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Jews as amoral people. They didn't want to associate with them. So when did church become
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anti-white in your view? Well, um, my suspicion, well, okay. So go back at least a hundred years,
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if not more than that. I mean, you, you can see the infiltration of, of liberalism into the,
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the denominations and seminaries, uh, long ago. I mean, that's honestly what led to the American
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quote civil war. I mean, if it wasn't for the fact that the descendants of the Puritans,
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New England became apostates and that they turned away from the actual faith and embraced
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really what is now what we just call being a progressive. That's exactly what they were
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doing. That's what led to abolitionism. That's what led to lots of social movements that, that
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rose up in New England. Um, and that have, has devastated the United States ever since.
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So, so really, uh, you can easily say the churches started cucking out, uh, oh, easily 200 years
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ago. Um, but, but it was a more of a regional thing or limited to certain denominations. Um,
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in the South, for example, um, that was not the case. Um, during the war and the civil war and after
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the civil war, those churches were still both theologically and socially and culturally conservative,
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uh, much more so than their Northern counterparts. Um, but my belief is that white guilt changed all of
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that. And so once those churches starting going, started going apostate, uh, both socially and
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culturally speaking, and then also morally and theologically speaking, um, certainly by the
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fifties and sixties and, and it just accelerated in the seventies and beyond. So now we're at the
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point where the most quote, conservative Protestant denominations like the Southern Baptists, um,
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the Presbyterian church in America, the direct descendants of those Confederates, okay. Um,
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who fought for, you know, limited government, who fought for white identity and those sorts of
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things. They're the ones who are sometimes the most eager to push these, uh, blue haired cat lady
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schemes. Um, and so, so I, I trace it back, like I said, depending on what region you're talking about,
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um, you know, at least decades, if not a couple hundred years, but it, but it stems from a denial
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of some of the fundamental truths of the Bible. And, and for us, you know, race is not the chief
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thing of the Bible, but it is there, uh, just like, just like other natural laws are there in
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the Bible, uh, just like gender identity is very clearly, uh, uh, articulated in the Bible. Um, and
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so these are truths, which are not the main truths for us, but they are still truths and are still God's
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truths. And so therefore we need to take them seriously. Martin Luther, the German reformer had a
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great quote, which pointed out that, that if you're, if you're saying you're going to contend for
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the faith, you're going to, if you're going to, you know, fight, you know, be like a holy warrior,
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if you're not fighting where the battle's actually raging, but instead you're off in some other,
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you know, some other place, you know, guarding a point where nobody's fighting, you're not really
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fighting. And so for us, uh, obviously the battle is raging here on this racial and gender and
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sexual front. Um, the, the battles about Christology and Trinitarian doctrine are, are over,
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but you know, by, you know, for the most part. So here's where the fight is. And, and it's just,
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it's a terrible shame and it's truly sinful and shameful to see people who should know better
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people who claim to be pastors and bishops and so on and so forth, um, helping the enemy.
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Oh yeah. And one of the things we hear a lot of Christian cucks always say is the idea that
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we're all, we're all God's children and home is in, in heaven. So bring on the open borders, right?
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Wow. Yes. That's very Jim Jones-like, to be honest with you. I mean, you know, to, to say that this life
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or your physical body or physical safety or your biological relations have no meaning. Honestly,
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it's kind of funny. I was just mentioning some of these chief basic Christian doctrines, like the
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incarnation, like the Trinity, um, to, to say those things that the cucks say is really to deny the truth
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of the incarnation of Christ because they make Christ out to be just some spirit and just,
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and that Christianity is just a bunch of ideas, but that's not it. That's, that's other religions.
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That's Gnosticism. That's, that's forms of, you know, other philosophies, but Christianity
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specifically says there is a God and he became a human being and, you know, flesh and blood. And
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even after the resurrection, I mean, and this God died and rose from the grave and he, and he ate broiled
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fish with his disciples after he rose from the grave. So like the idea that, that the body and
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that this life doesn't matter is totally stupid. It is totally anti-biblical. If you deny the truth
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of the physical resurrection of Christ or that we will be physically resurrected and judged, you would
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be cast out of every denomination as a heretic. But since they don't phrase it in that way, they're
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still running those denominations. And my prayer is that that will change someday pretty soon.
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You made a good point earlier too, though, that's, you know, just because everyone is
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Christian, it's because there's blacks and Asians are Christians and whites that are Christians.
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We don't all have to live together. Right. So that's a good point that a lot of Christians
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don't bring up. They could just be Christian over there. Right.
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Exactly. Exactly. And there's, there's nothing wrong with that. And that's how we have functioned
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in all throughout history, unless there's a problem like the Crusades, which is going on right
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That's right. Now the Catholic Church came as a universal faith, kind of a globalist religion,
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and anyone who accepts Jesus is welcome. Did Protestants think in the same way or were
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Well, I would say both, both for Catholics and for Protestants, you've got this ability
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to be both national and the Orthodox do this as well. Obviously, like look at the Orthodox
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churches, they'll still call themselves, you know, the Greek Orthodox or the Russian Orthodox,
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whatever. But the various branches of Christianity, you can embrace this sense of,
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yes, we are, we are part of one spiritual body, one spiritual communion, and yet at the same
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time retain our national distinctive identities. And so, like I said, it was, it was liberalism,
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otherwise known as Marxism, progressivism, that, that has undermined that across, across the
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board, both certainly in the Protestant and Catholic, and also I would say Orthodox camps.
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So that now, honestly, like, even in the Orthodox camps, even though they still talk about themselves
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in national terms, if you, if you are a white nationalist in those churches, you're going to be cast
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out. So, so it really doesn't matter which branch you're in at the moment.
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Yeah, I think most churches are, have become anti-white. I think you guys do a home group. So when
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people ask, what church should I go to, what do you say to them?
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And we say, that's why we're having these small group Bible studies.
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Because, because it's kind of like, if we look at another sphere of life, it's kind of easy to see.
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So look at, look at where you get your food, or look at the political scene. And you can see that in
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both of those spheres of life, a lot of corruption, a lot of lies, a lot of just evil has crept in.
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So that it's hard for us to get food that's not genetically modified. It's hard for us to get
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food that's actually healthy. And in the political scene, it's hard to find a political party or
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organization that is not just sold out to our, the enemies of our nation and faith and things like
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that. So to see the same thing in the church really should not be that surprising. And it also means
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that we shouldn't throw the ecclesiastical baby out with the bathwater. Every institution,
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from government, to business, to church, to schools, to media, and more, have been infiltrated
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and subverted. The church is simply another institution to which that has happened.
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Yeah, I agree. Well, in your view, both of you can answer this. What is the proper use of
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Well, I'd say first and foremost for our, our families and, and, you know, to, to be very,
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I guess, I guess to be, to be very loving to our families. I'm sorry, mommy brain.
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And you've often talked about it in terms of like a bullseye.
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Right. Yeah. So you have different rings in a bullseye from the very middle to, and then it
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kind of goes out from there. And the people that we're supposed to be most, take the most care of
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and love and really try to influence are in the middle of that bullseye. And then maybe it can go
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out from there to neighbors or extended family. And then, you know, as you go out further and
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further, then you get to nations, then you get to, you know, bringing in the refugees and whatever,
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which would be, if we, if we want to help other countries, then we need to do it in,
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in their countries. You know, maybe send missionaries. They don't need to come here.
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And we need to give what's left after we have given to our own. That's very important.
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Yeah. I've talked a lot about that in terms of just in terms of living your life.
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Um, it's really important to keep perspective and keep things in their proper order. So like,
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for example, you know, Mary and I, we cannot solve the problem of the invasions, whether it's
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from Mexico or from these Muslims or whatever, we can't solve it on our own, but we can do our part.
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And we do that part first and foremost by being accountable to God and taking care of ourselves
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and our families. Then like Mary is saying, we go out from there to our communities, our churches,
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the people we actually know. Now from there we get, we go so far as to reach people. We don't even
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physically, we haven't physically met yet, but with whom we can communicate over the internet and
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whatnot. And so that's kind of, that's what we're doing in these small groups, the podcast,
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the website, things like that. But, but the important thing is like Mary is saying is we have
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to focus on first ourselves and the family, the people who, for whom we are responsible.
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And, you know, like if everybody did their job kind of like, you know, think about the great movie
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about the Spartans 300, you know, you got this line, you know, these ranks of Spartans shoulder
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to shoulder. And, you know, the funny thing is that they had a spear to kill the enemy and they
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had a shield, but that shield was not really to protect themselves. That shield was protect the
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guy next to them. And if, if one person in that, in that rank failed to hold his shield properly,
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the guy next to him would get it. And so if we just all did our jobs and exercised dominion in
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biblical terms, you know, took dominion, like God says in Genesis one, and did our jobs in our,
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in our own souls and in our own workplaces and homes and families, this whole thing would radically
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change. And so, so we want to be able to change the world, but it's, it is like the old saying goes,
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you know, think globally, but act locally. And that's a, that's a very biblical concept.
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Makes perfect sense to me. Well, let's talk about one of the other things that
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cucks always say, turn the other cheek. Right. And so it seems that a lot of them
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are loving and tolerating even enemies who want to kill them. Have you noticed this?
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Oh, absolutely. Well, and they're literally inviting them in, which is nuts.
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Yeah. It's more than turning the other cheek at that point, you know,
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like turning the other cheek and giving them a free dinner.
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And bending over while you're making them dinner.
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Yeah. Yeah. The problem, the problem is that they honestly, I mean, and we were there. So,
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so we are not casting aspersions on their character. I believe that many of these people,
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if not most of these people, they genuinely want to do what they believe is right.
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And so this can be the best kind of person to have on your side, but it can also be,
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unfortunately, the worst, most intensely committed person on the other side.
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Plus, I mean, it's, it's very painful and hurtful because these are your own people.
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Yeah. Yeah. And, and this is what we saw, like I said, in the American civil war. And that's what
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we're seeing right now in the, in the Western world in general, this conflict between Westerners
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over how to deal with other people. It's nuts, but like I said, in the States, we've seen this before.
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Yeah. I think some people are genuinely just so, so nice. I think there's a lot of Christians are
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just so nice and they mean well, but they're naive. They're, they don't, they can't comprehend
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what kind of evil they're dealing with because maybe they don't have that kind of evil within
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Well, we, you know, really for, for, for a professing Christian to walk around in this world and
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believe that everything like in the movie Pollyanna is going to work out just fine and there's no harm
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or evil in there is to actually deny some of the central truths of the faith. I mean,
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we do believe fundamentally that we are depraved sinners, fallen, alienated from God, enemies
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of God. And that's the whole reason why we need Jesus. It's not like Jesus was like just
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some gold star to make us a little better than we already were. That's, that's not the
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faith at all. That's, that's progressivism. That's humanism, but that's not Christianity at
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all. And so I do think that there are some serious doctrinal reasons for why the churches
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are the way that they are. And like I said, it came because they've been subverted through
00:22:42.780
liberalism or whatever the term we want to use, that they actually did change the doctrinal
00:22:47.080
emphases. So, you know, when you look at the SJW like activities of these major denominations,
00:22:54.520
they're honestly, the reasons they're doing them is because doctrinally they are not far off
00:22:59.080
from the Unitarian Universalists or from the Communist Party USA. Um, so, so I would say
00:23:05.440
that these people, um, who are culturally shooting at us and, and aiding and abetting literally
00:23:11.760
are conquerors and invaders, um, that they are dangerously close, uh, to leaving the faith
00:23:17.780
altogether. That's not my call to make, but, but when we get right down to it, that that's
00:23:21.900
the problem. But, but nonetheless, they are still our people. They are our co-ethnics and they
00:23:26.840
are people who do profess the same faith. And so we have to be very patient and pray for
00:23:32.420
them and tolerate a lot, but we don't tolerate a knife to our throats. And so that's when,
00:23:38.520
that's when, uh, you know, turn the other cheek, uh, gives way to the proper context.
00:23:44.020
Jesus also told the apostles the night he was betrayed, go sell your cloak and buy two swords.
00:23:48.920
Okay. Jesus is not a pacifist. Christianity is not a pacifistic faith. So like I said, it comes
00:23:55.680
back to the doctrines that have been, uh, undermined and we need to restore those through a real
00:23:59.500
reformation. Another big one that comes up in the alt, right? I think we should talk about
00:24:03.620
is the relationship between Jews and Christianity, the Judeo-Christian link and Jesus as a Jew. So
00:24:09.760
what are your thoughts about it? Well, I'll speak to that first because I had an Israeli flag
00:24:15.320
on my wall in college and I specifically, I wish I had a copy of the email, but it was so long
00:24:21.320
ago. I, you know, it's long gone. I specifically remember emailing the Israeli embassy saying,
00:24:27.340
Hey, I'm a white Christian. Can I come help you guys? And, and I never, I don't think I ever heard
00:24:32.820
back, but, and that's fine. Uh, I don't think I would have been quite fit for the IDF. Um,
00:24:37.940
but actually it's funny. I knew Jewish kids who did go and do their time in the IDF so they can
00:24:42.900
make Aliyah someday. Yeah. It's free Christian slave labor. It's great. They love it.
00:24:46.960
Yeah. Right. Oh, I'm telling you, if push comes to shove, man, they'd be stupid not to take all
00:24:51.280
these millions of evangelicals and just enlist them. But, but, but, but the crazy thing is that
00:24:56.540
no matter how, and I mean, there's, there's literally millions of evangelicals who's evangelicals
00:25:02.400
who would live and die for Israelis, but, but still the Jews hate those people more than they even
00:25:08.360
hate Muslims. It's nuts. I think there's no explanation for it other than the fact that Judaism at its core
00:25:13.780
is anti-Gentile and specifically anti-Christian, anti-Christ. But anyway, um, like I was saying in
00:25:20.780
my, my journey, um, when I, when I got more into the Bible and specifically came across, um, just more
00:25:27.500
traditional Protestant doctrines. And, uh, there's this doctrine actually, the, the eschatology,
00:25:32.760
the eschatology called amillennialism, which says that as a part of it, which says that, you know,
00:25:37.780
the kingdom of heaven is now, right? Like, like we're, we're doing God's work now. It's not like
00:25:41.500
we're waiting for G like in the left behind series, we're all raptured. And then Jesus comes
00:25:45.220
back and the Jews run the world and all this sort of thing. No, you know, historically Christian
00:25:50.080
churches by and large have taught, no, you know, uh, whether Jew or Gentile, you're part of God's
00:25:54.500
kingdom now. And so the Jews are not the key people. They're not the key players, people who profess
00:26:00.760
Christ, Christians, they're the key players. And so if that's true, and the Bible says it is,
00:26:05.940
and like I said, that is the historic doctrine across the branches of Christianity, then the Jews
00:26:10.660
really play no significant role today, unless they're doing something stupid, in which case
00:26:15.080
they're just another nation doing something stupid. So the people we need to be sticking
00:26:19.140
up for are, are, are, are families, our co-ethnics and our fellow Christians. And so that's when
00:26:28.600
It's just a shame that so many Christians are totally blind to that. You know, like, um, the
00:26:33.460
Jews hate you. They're not doing it for you. Yeah. And, um, we're, it's like a one-sided
00:26:38.780
relationship and, uh, it's not working out so well for us.
00:26:42.460
Yeah. And then when, when, then when, so you have the theological reasoning that undermines
00:26:46.440
Christian Zionism. And then when you get to the actual, like what's actually happening
00:26:50.760
on the ground, when you learn about the USS Liberty, when you learn about the Jewish role
00:26:54.240
in pornography and abortion and feminism, in this gender insanity and in the third world
00:27:00.500
invasion of the West and all these other things, you're like, so the Jews are behind everything
00:27:04.740
that conservative Christians hate. Yeah. How does this work? Exactly.
00:27:08.460
Yeah. Why should I be for this? Yeah. So, so yeah. So that's a big red pill we need to spread
00:27:14.620
around. I ask Christians that all the time when they're complaining about Hollywood and the filth
00:27:18.700
coming out of there. I'm like, you realize it's Jews making that stuff, right? The, the people you
00:27:22.800
think are the chosen people, right? The people that actually hate Christians.
00:27:26.720
Yeah. Like, like the minute I see the Weinstein brothers logo go up at the beginning of a movie,
00:27:31.280
I'm like, oh, I know it's coming. Prepare yourself. Yeah. Yeah. You know.
00:27:36.960
So how do you tackle the whole Jesus was a Jew thing?
00:27:40.760
Well, well, he was, uh, I don't, I personally don't, I cast doubts on the, on the idea that
00:27:47.100
modern day Jews are literally descended, um, from, you know, Moses, let's say, or Abraham,
00:27:53.260
more broadly speaking. But, but the important doctrine is that yes, Jesus is the son of David.
00:27:58.680
He fulfilled the messianic prophecies. Um, but actually, actually I did a teaching about this
00:28:03.360
just a few weeks ago. You can find it at gmyamerica.com, uh, from the first gospel, first chapter
00:28:08.540
of the gospel of Matthew, which is the genealogy of Christ, which is really just setting up Matthew's
00:28:14.320
argument that Jesus is the son of David. He is Messiah. He is like the Jewish Messiah. And so we,
00:28:20.300
we want to uphold that because it's obviously a Matthew spent a lot of time when he wrote a whole
00:28:25.120
book about it. It must be pretty important. But, but beyond that, what Jesus makes clear in the
00:28:30.680
gospel of Matthew, again, makes this very clear to his Jewish audience is that, like I said,
00:28:36.400
God's plan of salvation, certainly Jews were a part of it and a critical part of it.
00:28:42.200
But the Jews as a people group also turned away for centuries, repeatedly turned away completely
00:28:49.840
from God's word, perverted it, twisted it. We, they created what we now call the Talmud
00:28:53.820
and they killed Jesus Christ. I mean, you know, when I look at Peter and Paul and James and John,
00:29:01.280
these were Jews. But when I look at who put Jesus on the cross, those were Jews too. And we're,
00:29:06.920
Mary and I, we've been reading Acts lately. And so we see these Jews who follow Christ saying to
00:29:11.780
their non-believing co-ethnics, you crucified the son of, you know, the son of God. And, and,
00:29:17.840
you know, God is going to bring judgment on you. You know, the apostle Paul himself,
00:29:21.780
he was a Pharisee. He was a Jew who was a Jewish scholar. And he says, God is going to bring the
00:29:26.560
Romans to destroy you. Jesus predicted that the Romans would come and destroy Jerusalem.
00:29:33.020
And so when you see, when you see these, these saints and the son of God himself saying this about
00:29:38.380
the Jewish nation, that, that they're not God's special pet anymore, that they're, they can be part
00:29:45.120
of God's kingdom. But, but again, the locus, the focus is on those who follow Messiah, those who
00:29:50.400
follow Christ. And act in a Christian way, walk the walk, right? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you can't
00:29:56.140
just have some Jew that's, you know, doing the things that Jews have been doing, like in Hollywood
00:30:01.140
and the whole pornography thing and et cetera, et cetera, and say that they're going to heaven,
00:30:06.980
like just because they're special. That's not how it works.
00:30:10.340
Yeah. Salvation is by grace, not by race. And so we very much choose.
00:30:14.140
Wasn't Jesus calling them Pharisees too? And he was turning the tables, you know, the money changers
00:30:18.900
in the temple and yeah, really he came to lay the law for these Jews. They denied it. They killed
00:30:27.000
Yeah, absolutely. So Jews can be saved, but it's not because you're Jewish, you're going to be saved.
00:30:32.040
It's you repent of sin. You put your faith in Christ and live a whole life and then you're saved.
00:30:40.520
Well, many in the alt-right are, we're a diverse bunch. We have, you know, spiritually speaking,
00:30:44.260
there's agnostics, pagans, even atheists, a lot of Christians. And, uh, you know, I think there's
00:30:49.600
less tension nowadays, but there is still a kind of a tense relationship between some pagans and
00:30:54.740
Christians. So how do you respond to, to that debate?
00:30:58.320
Well, I mean, obviously theologically we are where we are. Um, uh, for us, like that was actually
00:31:05.420
something we had to work through in terms of culture. Like, um, look at C.S. Lewis, look at
00:31:10.840
J.R.R. Tolkien, look at Shakespeare, look at Homer, look at the great works of our heritage. A lot of
00:31:18.520
them reference, uh, pagan mythology. Uh, they deal with magic, things of that nature. So how do we
00:31:24.440
as Christians, you know, are we okay with that? Do we say, no, that's off limits? Cause you know,
00:31:28.960
like, like, how do you explain to your kids? Okay guys, I want you to read this book about
00:31:32.000
polytheism, but you're Christians. Okay. So, so that, that is, that is something you have to
00:31:37.280
work through. But, but I know for me, um, honestly, one of the big, one of the things that really helped
00:31:43.100
me get to where I am is when, as I was coming out of my, my, uh, conservative years, um, I just kept
00:31:51.860
seeing over and over and over that every other ethnic group had a proud heritage and they could
00:31:57.780
talk, you know, their language, their literature, their music, their dance, their spirituality,
00:32:02.460
things like that. And I'm like, surely my heritage that I want to pass on to my descendants must be
00:32:08.300
more than you go to this building and you sing a few songs. It must be more than that. Um, and so
00:32:13.860
for me and for Mary, what we've done is we've kind of embraced even some of the more high church
00:32:20.700
elements of Western civilization. So that includes, yes, we like cathedrals. We are stalwart
00:32:26.920
Protestants, but we like cathedrals. Um, we like the stained glass, you know, like
00:32:30.920
beautiful pictures. Yeah, exactly. You know, we, we like, we like all that stuff, but it also means
00:32:36.000
that we're going to embrace again, without denying our faith, without, without endorsing the sorts of
00:32:40.120
things that we would see the pagan gods do if they're, if they're sinful things. We're still,
00:32:44.800
we absolutely teach our kids about Homer and we've read a children's version of, you know,
00:32:49.480
Homer's great epics to the kids and it's awesome stuff. Um, and so, so we embrace,
00:32:55.180
we embrace the heritage that our forefathers, uh, you know, created and passed on to us. Uh,
00:33:01.800
as with any good child, we, uh, we want to honor our fathers and our mothers. And that goes back
00:33:06.780
millennia without, of course, uh, replicating what we see as their mistakes or their sins.
00:33:12.780
So that that's how we navigate that tension for ourselves. And then in terms of dealing with our
00:33:16.960
contemporaries, again, we, we work together where we can and we, you know, we have respectful
00:33:21.580
disagreement where we can. Yeah. And I think, I think we want a lot of the same things. We want
00:33:25.500
a place for our children. I mean, I keep on going back to the family. I'm a mom, you know,
00:33:29.460
and I have kids that I want to see succeed. And that's what a lot of other people want to,
00:33:38.860
you know, a lot of whites that are not Christians want the same thing. We need to work together in
00:33:43.340
order to have that at this point. It's, it's, you know, we have us, that's it.
00:33:47.800
Yeah. I think too, our, our, our ancestors that were, you know, pre-Christian times were actually
00:33:53.760
radical traditionalists. I think primordial traditionalists because they needed it in
00:33:57.780
order to survive. The family unit was very important. And then of course, you know,
00:34:02.340
they weren't monsters. They had no, the nine noble virtues. They had a lot of ancient knowledge.
00:34:07.220
They were spiritual. They talked about the gods. I mean, they really cared about each other too.
00:34:12.040
I think a lot of these ancient elements and myths and concepts have actually seeped into the Bible.
00:34:16.920
So some of that is still alive in Christianity.
00:34:20.020
There's definitely a lot of overlap. And you can see that I've read books, for example,
00:34:24.700
that talk about how some of those pre-Christian, you know, themes in European paganism,
00:34:31.040
they kind of laid the groundwork for it to be easier for our ancestors to accept Christianity.
00:34:36.240
So there's that. Now, now today we obviously like, even just the last couple of days, we had,
00:34:41.100
you know, this, this chick on the right told me Lara and make some claims about being pro-abortion.
00:34:46.920
And that has inflamed a lot of pro-life conservatives like ourselves.
00:34:51.360
And so, and then I see Richard Spencer write about, no, you know, she's right. We should be
00:34:55.620
pro-abortion, those sorts of things. So we are going to run into those differences and they're
00:34:59.460
real. And I don't want to minimize them, you know, unnecessarily. But honestly, like I said,
00:35:05.900
about perspective, it's like, I can't control everything. I'm just going to do what I can do
00:35:11.820
Yeah. I think it's important just to focus on the big things. I mean, we have so much,
00:35:15.980
we have this monumental task in front of us. So yeah, I don't like to bicker and stuff with
00:35:21.060
people and spirituality. I think that's a personal thing. And everyone's entitled to their own
00:35:25.300
spiritual path and the gods that they want to pray to. And I think it's, I think it's all good,
00:35:29.780
whatever kind of spirituality people want to have.
00:35:31.620
Now, Mary, let's talk about balancing motherhood and thinking about politics. Do you avoid it
00:35:38.220
altogether? Because it is, it's hard being a mother and focusing on, on this threat we're
00:35:44.860
Yeah, it can get really black pill and really scary and everything. I've never really been a
00:35:50.380
political person. I'm very thankful that my husband kind of understands all that and can dabble
00:35:56.660
in where he can. But yeah, I guess my biggest focus by being at home is really to make sure that
00:36:05.560
they have the understanding that what they are is good. By being white, it's not a sin. You don't
00:36:14.160
need to be beaten down because of that. And just help them have a healthy sense of self. And also give
00:36:22.440
them the ability to answer the hard questions that they might get on the outside, you know,
00:36:28.060
outside of our home. And, you know, that kind of, that kind of goes into the walls and fences book,
00:36:33.980
which I'm sure we'll get to. But a lot of that, the reason that I thought this book was so important
00:36:39.380
to create was because I feel like our children need to have good responses to the cuck-servatives
00:36:46.740
that will maybe shake fingers at them and say, how could you blah, blah, blah, blah. Or just to
00:36:52.480
be able to have those answers to respond to all the different questions and concerns that other
00:37:02.160
Well, that's right. You wrote a book called Walls and Fences. So tell us more about what's in it,
00:37:06.680
what inspired it, and maybe you can even read a little bit from it.
00:37:10.200
Sure. Okay. So Walls and Fences was inspired by the fact that Trump was on the way to winning.
00:37:22.180
Yeah. So, and the whole thing that we were really excited about was the idea of him actually building
00:37:27.700
a wall, which, it's just ridiculous. Like, why do we have to go through this? The wall should already
00:37:33.360
be up. This should be understood, but whatever. So anyway, I wanted my kids to be able to
00:37:40.180
understand that having a wall is good because they're surrounded by a whole bunch of people
00:37:44.880
that are like, oh, I'm not sure if I'm for Trump or not because of this. And we need to be open
00:37:49.520
borders. And aren't you a Christian? Blah, blah, blah. And so, yeah, we just kind of, I sat down one
00:37:58.180
day and just started writing about all the different other places that had walls, the reasons for walls,
00:38:05.020
like trying to put it down on paper, just very, very simply, um, both for my children, but also
00:38:12.800
for other people outside our homes. And, um, that's kind of where it came from.
00:38:20.260
Yeah. And then, and then I got on the forums, uh, the, I guess the now defunct TRS forums. And I said,
00:38:26.440
hey, my wife wrote, my wife wrote the story. I want to make it into a book. Does anybody out
00:38:31.280
there know how to draw? Cause I can't. And then I randomly get this guy, Ford Henry, he says,
00:38:37.840
I can do something, you know, send me a note. And so we started talking and then a couple months
00:38:41.880
later, bada bing, bada boom, we have this book. It's beautiful. Yeah. No stick figures.
00:38:47.180
Yeah. I draw stick people too. Yeah. I know. We know Ford Henry too. He's amazingly talented and
00:38:53.160
a super kind man, very generous. And he did a beautiful job on yours. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean,
00:38:58.920
we, we started conversing over email and then, um, then he sent me a sample. I'm like, whoa.
00:39:07.580
Jack thought. Yeah. Oh man. Glad somebody has those skills. I think that this kid's book is probably
00:39:13.720
one that lefties would, would love to burn because they would love to burn our books.
00:39:19.600
Yeah. It's really great. It has this one page where it actually shows the wall in Israel.
00:39:24.280
And so it kind of exposes them. Yeah. Yeah. Like we talk about the wall in Israel. We'll talk about
00:39:28.980
the great wall of China and, and, and we explicitly state all, all nations have a right to protect
00:39:33.280
themselves. But then at the end we show these, uh, Ford Henry did a great job of, of depicting the
00:39:38.400
radical difference between SJWs and a normal white family. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, I agree. I think
00:39:45.460
they would love to hate it. So, um, yeah, we'll have to, you know, sprinkle that around, you know,
00:39:49.680
publicize it more. That's right. That's right. Poke at the bee's nest a little bit.
00:39:53.180
So now are you homeschooling? Do you know of homeschool networks? How are you socializing
00:39:57.960
your kids with other like-minded kids? How are you basically raising them so that they don't go Marxist?
00:40:04.020
Yeah. Um, we have, we are homeschooling. We don't have a lot of people that they are hanging out
00:40:12.600
with in the church. Um, just because we feel like we have to be really careful with them not
00:40:18.100
being, uh, indoctrinated wrong. Yeah, exactly. With the whole conservative thing. But at least,
00:40:24.560
but we put them in, you know, youth group stuff. We have them in sports. Um, they, and like many
00:40:30.080
homeschoolers, like they're far better behaved, uh, than, than a lot of kids who've been public
00:40:34.980
schools. And I came up through the public school system. Uh, I was a government indoctrinated
00:40:38.820
Brett. Um, and I feel I missed out on so much because they do skew it so much to the left.
00:40:44.420
Um, and then obviously we're taking preventive measures by, you know, uh, very intentionally,
00:40:50.180
but not, uh, not like too rigidly, uh, catechizing the kids on their faith and, and through things
00:40:56.020
like walls and fences, um, and just do normal everyday conversations like mom, dad, why,
00:41:01.760
why is this Trump guy up there? Why should there be a wall? You know, what does it mean
00:41:06.100
to be white? Those sorts of things we, we, we teach them. So we're red pilling them. We,
00:41:10.400
we, we get, we put little red sprinkles in their food, basically, you know, because I mean,
00:41:15.860
I went through my rebellious years, rebelling against things my parents said, but my dad planted
00:41:20.440
a lot of seeds. He was very good talking about politics and a lot of these kinds of concepts,
00:41:23.980
you know, way back when, I mean, he gave me my first David Duke book. So, and, and, you know,
00:41:29.680
kids always rebel against their parents, but I came back around a lot of things he said really
00:41:33.740
stuck with me. So do you worry about your kids rebelling from some of the things that you're
00:41:38.240
teaching them? At this point, not really. Um, I think that we're really teaching them truth and then,
00:41:46.440
um, they can go out into the world and see that it's the truth. Now, I mean, I had my little bit of
00:41:53.400
rebelling too. I grew up in a Christian home. And, uh, so I, I understand that that's probably
00:41:59.300
going to happen here and there, but, um, I feel like since we're not hiding anything from them,
00:42:05.320
we're not just like, you know, telling them only one side of the story. We're also telling them the
00:42:11.600
other side of what people say, um, and why they're incorrect. I think it's allowing them to think about
00:42:18.140
those things beforehand and feel kind of like, Oh, they can have this independence beforehand. I can
00:42:24.080
consider this. I can ask mom and dad these questions and I'm not going to be brow beaten
00:42:28.560
because I'm asking them these questions. Yeah. I really want the kids cause they're still pretty
00:42:33.800
young at this point. So we have to be careful. We don't want to overload them. There's only so much
00:42:37.760
you can handle emotionally at their ages right now, but at certainly as they get into their mid to
00:42:43.400
later teams, um, you know, you got to step back, you got to let them go out there on their own and
00:42:50.280
be battle tested. And so for me and Mary, we want to train them up and make them, you know,
00:42:57.900
equip them with the right, with the right weapons and the right armor, so to speak,
00:43:00.960
so that they can go into the workplace or, or a school setting or something like that and be able
00:43:07.000
to know how to go along, know how to follow rules, know how to be innovative and successful
00:43:11.440
and also how to defend themselves both physically and spiritually and intellectually.
00:43:16.200
And I think that's actually very important, especially if they're our sons, because right
00:43:21.000
now it's like everything is beating down male people and just men are just being beaten down
00:43:27.780
quite a bit. And, uh, yeah, to give them the ability to be strong and to be confident when
00:43:36.860
they go out into the world. I think that's one of the best tools that we can give them.
00:43:44.180
Yeah. I think John Taylor Gatto, I don't know if you know him, but he has a lot of good work. He's
00:43:48.000
talks about teaching kids critical thinking, you know, you arm them so that they know how to dissect
00:43:52.940
some of these arguments and think for themselves as opposed to indoctrinating them. I think that will
00:43:57.140
go really far teaching them how to critically think so they can see through the propaganda and
00:44:03.180
that will go really far in their life. Absolutely. Yeah. We've actually, in the last couple of weeks,
00:44:07.980
we actually had the conversation with our eldest just explaining to her the concept of agendas in
00:44:13.240
movie and movies and TV shows. And books actually. Yeah. Books as well. Yeah. She was reading a book
00:44:18.760
about, um, what was it? A girl that was kidnapped by Indians. And they make it out to be a good thing.
00:44:24.600
Yeah. It was like a cold caught metal or something like that. It's ridiculous. And so she was reading
00:44:29.860
it and she came to me and was talking to me about it and I was kind of probing, asking questions. And
00:44:35.120
the book had presented it in a way that, oh, the Indians were good, even though they kidnapped her
00:44:41.920
and killed her family. They were good because they took care of her and they treated her nicely once
00:44:49.420
she was, you know, kidnapped. And we had to kind of sit down and explain to her that that's actually
00:44:56.440
not normal and not good. Yeah. Now, now I have to point this out. Um, she, she was at the library
00:45:03.920
with, with our, with her grandparents, right? We screen everything that they get, they get their
00:45:08.740
hands on, but that was one of the ones that slipped through the net. So we had to like, oh,
00:45:13.960
we got to undo this. But it was a teachable moment. Exactly. A teachable moment. And I'm so glad that we
00:45:19.900
had that opportunity to, to kind of set her back on the track, but also that she learned
00:45:25.300
through that conversation, oh, they're trying to educate me in this other way to make me think
00:45:30.420
it's okay. And also to tell her, no, it is not okay that, you know, people are kidnapped and
00:45:36.260
ridiculous. Well, speaking of looking at movies and analyzing them, you can make it kind of fun
00:45:41.780
for them. You can tell them there's secret messages and there's symbols and there, you know,
00:45:46.020
we're going to solve this mystery. What is this movie really telling us? I think that that would be
00:45:50.380
really fun for them. And then it will stick with them forever. They'll always think about what is the
00:45:54.700
secret message in this movie, right? Yeah, we'll make a mystery science 3000 trolls, you know,
00:45:59.860
the old writers like laughing at this, that, and the other leftist agenda and whatever they watch
00:46:05.160
and like, ha ha. That's stupid. Let's, let's go do something else. This is getting boring.
00:46:11.860
Yeah. I know there's a lot of alt-right networks forming, which is really good.
00:46:15.320
Cascadia, I just spoke with them. There's a lot of other groups around the country, which is good
00:46:18.900
because a lot of them have families and they have kids so they can celebrate traditions together.
00:46:23.220
They can grow up with other kids that think the same. I think that that's kind of fun. So,
00:46:28.000
or do you guys have any kind of network where you are?
00:46:31.620
Well, geographically, no, but that's almost by intent at this point in our work. But,
00:46:37.980
but so we don't have that geographic network, but we're working to build up that network just kind
00:46:43.660
of everywhere through our small group Bible studies. So basically, you know, we reached out
00:46:48.620
to the pool of people who listened to Good Morning, White America, our podcast. And, and we're saying,
00:46:54.800
Hey, let's, let's just start getting together on Sunday afternoons and reading the Bible together
00:46:58.440
and praying and hanging out. And it's been really cool. We last week, like for example, in one of the
00:47:03.520
meetings, and we got five different groups going right now led by myself or Clement Pulaski or Hans
00:47:08.880
Gigak. So we've got a bunch of people leading. But like we had, we had a guy who's calling in from China,
00:47:13.880
a guy from down under, we got a guy in California, we got a guy in another part of the country. So
00:47:18.640
it's pretty cool. And so our hope is that as, as those numbers grow, we will be able to say,
00:47:25.340
okay, you guys are in like the Dallas area, you know, Hey, you know, you guys can start meeting
00:47:29.880
together and, and our, our desire long-term. And I don't know how far off that long-term is, but
00:47:35.540
our desire is to, is to actually start having congregations so that if you are a pro white
00:47:41.000
Christian, you've got a spiritual home, you've got a place where you can get fed and a place
00:47:45.300
where you can have those potlucks and have those maybe Christian schools or, or, or Christian
00:47:49.100
homeschool or get togethers, that sort of thing. So, so that's, that's what we're doing to try to
00:47:53.260
build that up. That's great. I love that idea. Yeah. Tell us about your radio show. Good morning,
00:47:57.660
white America. It airs on Tuesday mornings, correct? Yeah. Yeah. It was just the brainchild I had in the
00:48:03.420
shower one day about 14 months ago. It's like, you know, it's early. I got to go to work. I want to hear
00:48:09.700
something that encourages me. Hey, honey, I got this idea. Yeah. I was definitely a little
00:48:15.040
concerned. I was like, no, I don't know what to say on a show like this. You're the one that reads
00:48:19.860
all that stuff, you know, but we kind of decided that we wanted to create something that we wish
00:48:25.080
we had when we were first kind of getting into the red pill stuff and everything and something
00:48:30.660
not just depressing, but something that normalizes what you believe and encouraging. Yeah. We try to be
00:48:38.840
very, very positive. Like, not like, no, no, I guess we can be pretty giddy. No, that's
00:48:43.420
true. That's true. But, but positive. And so like, like Dr. Carl Rattle, he'll do pieces
00:48:49.200
on, on great things in European and American history. It's fantastic. Yeah. I know who he
00:48:53.400
is. Yeah. The hate bird. He's reading great poetry. We got Hans Dana Gigax. They're talking
00:48:57.900
about like how to grow your own crops and how to, you know, how to do home birthing and things
00:49:01.500
like that. We've got, and we've had more people as well. The Christmas episodes.
00:49:05.000
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The advent across Europe, you know, uh, John Rockwell did this amazing
00:49:09.780
series, uh, just highlighting how each of these European and then American cultures celebrates
00:49:14.500
Advent and Christmas. And so we try to make it something that's, that's definitely like
00:49:18.420
your, your white pill for the week. Right. Without, of course, without shying away from
00:49:24.120
some of these hard topics. Like a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about how Tim Tebow,
00:49:28.180
who's a prominent Christian evangelical athlete, how he was, uh, you know, all these articles
00:49:33.280
are being written about him because he said, I want to adopt kids from all over the world.
00:49:36.540
He was making this multiculturalism really like a Christian sort of idolatry sort of thing.
00:49:41.000
And so we had to say, look, you know, we, we respect and admire a lot of what this guy
00:49:44.500
has done and we, we love him as brother. We pray for him, but he's wrong here. And so
00:49:48.100
we're going to break that down and explain why that's so. So we tackle some of those hard
00:49:51.940
things. Um, but again, we try to keep it in perspective, try to keep it pro white, pro
00:49:56.060
Christian and, and positive. Right. And one thing that we like to say is we like
00:50:00.500
to focus on the greater yes. And so, yeah, there's a lot of really bad, sad, scary information
00:50:06.880
out there. And it's, yeah, we're not saying that that's incorrect, but the greater yes
00:50:12.440
means that we're going to focus at least for a little, a little bit of time. We're going
00:50:16.180
to focus on the good that our people have done and focus on the happy things and that type
00:50:21.920
of stuff. Yeah. And like, like instead of, instead of orienting our lives around what we
00:50:26.080
are against, we want to orient our lives on what we are for. That's right. We want
00:50:30.580
to be, obviously we are in a fight. Absolutely. But we want to build something and defend what
00:50:37.160
we have and build on that. So you have to remind people what they're fighting for, remind
00:50:41.060
them what their culture is. Exactly. You have to be positive. You can't be defeatist. You
00:50:45.380
can't be Debbie Downer. It turns people off. And I also like that you're offering a lot
00:50:51.200
of diversity, diversity in the true sense, you know, because the white mind is complex.
00:50:57.220
And even in the old right movement, we have, you know, all kinds of people who think all
00:51:01.540
kinds of different things. And that's been a blessing and a curse for white people. But
00:51:04.660
I think that that's why it's good. We have a lot of these different shows and different
00:51:08.580
outlets, but then we all come together also as a unit when we need to and have a bigger impact
00:51:13.740
together. I think it's good that we're all in touch with each other.
00:51:16.420
Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely something to build on. Yeah. It's been great because we've gotten
00:51:21.460
to know other people that are kind of in our same, have our same ideas and we wouldn't have
00:51:27.740
gotten to know them without doing, stepping out and doing a podcast. So cool. Thank you guys. Why
00:51:33.520
don't you give out the website and any other closing thoughts that you have before we end for
00:51:37.460
this time? Well, before we start, before we start to wrap up, actually, can I go ahead and read
00:51:43.080
a page or two? Can Mary and I read a couple pages from our book? Yeah. Because it is this great
00:51:47.340
little book. And again, it's called Walls and Fences. You can find it at Amazon, but you can
00:51:50.960
also link to it at gmwhiteamerica.com. We'll go ahead and just read some of the, some of the final
00:51:56.340
pages. And again, Ford Henry did a fantastic job. I'm looking at a beautiful picture of a pastoral
00:52:01.660
scene with a castle and a shepherd and a wall. Little fluffy sheep. Yeah. Awesome stuff.
00:52:06.840
So, so this page reads, walls were used to protect towns and people. Fences help farmers protect
00:52:14.580
their crops and help shepherds protect their sheep. Do you have a wall in your country? Many people
00:52:20.440
have fences to protect their property and to make it safe to play outside. Do you have a fence in
00:52:26.040
your house? And then the last page, and this is the great page, this is the great dichotomy between
00:52:32.060
the SJWs and the normal, normal white family. So we've got some SJWs picketing in front of the
00:52:36.800
White House and then a nice white family sitting inside their home on the next page. Some people
00:52:42.700
think fences are wrong. They think walls and fences hurt people's feelings, but it is more important
00:52:47.540
for us to be safe and protected. We should always be kind to others, but if we do not take care of
00:52:52.780
our families, we are sinning. God loves it when we obey him and take care of each other.
00:52:57.600
Okay. So like I said, that's called Walls and Fences. You can find that at gmwhiteamerica.com
00:53:03.780
and you can also just search for it at Amazon. You can look up Walls and Fences written by Mary
00:53:10.180
Gray, illustrated by Ford Henry. If you want to listen to the podcast, it comes out, like you said,
00:53:15.400
Lana, every Tuesday morning by 7 a.m. Eastern and it's on SoundCloud. But again, just go to
00:53:20.280
gmwhiteamerica.com. You'll find the podcasts. You'll find Walls and Fences. You'll find our Bible study
00:53:24.920
guides. You'll find some Bible teachings there as well to listen to, some spiritual nourishment
00:53:30.040
and lots of other things. And of course, we're always inviting and encouraging people to get
00:53:34.600
involved in these small group Bible studies. Love it. Well, thank you both. Keep up the great
00:53:39.060
work. It's been great getting to know you both. Thank you. It was nice to be here.
00:53:43.400
Look, I know both sides of this argument. I know what the pagans are saying about Christians and I know
00:53:47.700
what the Christians are saying about pagans. But considering the times we're in, it's best to avoid
00:53:52.500
arguing with anyone on our side about their spirituality or lack of. Yes, it's healthy to
00:53:57.460
discuss, challenge, and disagree, but all the right fights and divisions when it comes to the esoteric is
00:54:02.740
futile at this point in time. Find a happy middle. This show is supported by listeners, so please support
00:54:09.320
me. The best way is to sign up for a Red Ice membership to access all our content. Go to
00:54:14.060
redicemembers.com or send a donation to paypal.me slash redice. I have many more terrific guests lined up,
00:54:20.660
so check redice.tv or redicemembers.com for the latest. Have a great week.