In this episode of the Red Ice Radio Network's newest podcast, I speak with the founder of the blog, The Hidden Experience, about his journey to becoming a believer in UFOs, aliens, and symbolism. This is a great episode to listen to if you are interested in learning more about the topics covered in this episode.
00:00:30.000This is Radio 314 on the Red Ice Radio Network.
00:01:00.000This is Radio 314 on the Red Ice Radio Network.
00:01:29.980I do it partially just because I want it to be easy to navigate and I don't want people to be confused or intimidated by – because at this point, I seem to have a ton of stuff up there.
00:01:46.760So I just want to make it easy for folks to dive into.
00:01:50.060Well, since you're from Detroit, what do you think of it going from the capital of capitalism to the ghost town it is today?
00:01:57.140Well, I haven't lived in Detroit since I was like 18 years old.
00:02:00.500So – but I was – and I never actually lived in Detroit proper.
00:02:33.260So before we delve into synchronicities, aliens, elves, and symbolism, tell us what sparked your desire to create the Hidden Experience website.
00:02:42.360Well, it's a blog technically, not a website.
00:04:44.440And then when I did get home – and I'm not – this would have been in March, early March of 2009.
00:04:50.580I'm not – I don't think I'm exaggerating where I think I – I don't even think I took my coat off.
00:04:55.320I'm quite certain I did take my coat off.
00:04:57.220But I think I went right to the computer and just started the website, you know, there and then.
00:05:03.200And at the time, I was – you know, I had another small little website where I had some illustration stuff posted.
00:05:12.620So I knew exactly what I was going to – you know, whatever, how to go about starting it.
00:05:16.420So, yeah, within minutes of walking in the door, it felt like the thing was up and online.
00:05:21.980Well, I like the following quote on your blog.
00:05:24.400The area of studying coincidences, synchronicity, connections, esoterica, symbolism is turned into the term synchromysticism or, as you call it, synchro-weirdness, which I like better.
00:05:52.640These are areas you've been documenting.
00:05:54.740So in your view, what is synchronicity?
00:05:58.400Well, I mean, there's a definition that Jung gave and it would be the – a meaningful coincidence.
00:06:09.000Let's just say he had a – you know, he basically said – it had a longer definition.
00:06:12.220But a coincidence that has profound meaning to the observer would be my definition.
00:06:19.460Now, synchronicities are a little bit like dreams in a way where oftentimes, like, the person experiencing the synchronicity can't truly share or articulate the power of the synchronistic event.
00:06:34.800And not unlike a dream, you know, often it's very easy to have a dream and have it feel, oh, you know, powerful and strong in your own psyche.
00:06:44.740But then, you know, when you try to describe that dream to someone else, you can just watch their eyes glaze over.
00:06:49.460Yeah, Michael Taubach suggested that the holographic model basically provided a means for understanding these experiences.
00:06:56.640So if we can access the holographic, we can tap into senses that seem beyond our ability.
00:07:08.840There's something going on that we are somehow incapable of understanding in its totality.
00:07:13.860All we can see are these little refractions and little glints of something more profound that's taking place, you know, beyond our ability to comprehend using, you know, normal consciousness.
00:07:28.320It seems like, you know, there's something greater behind the curtain that's, you know, in essence interacting with us, although it's interacting in ways that often seem, you know, very strange.
00:07:41.720Are your synchronicities pushing you into a specific direction?
00:07:47.160Are you getting to look at something in particular again and again?
00:07:51.400You know, actually most, the, oh, I had a conversation with Alan Green that Henrik interviewed at one point about his book.
00:08:03.760He put out a book called The Sync Book.
00:08:05.160And, you know, he talked about the synchronicities being a compass, you know, when you're out in the open water.
00:08:13.080You know, if you're out in the open water and the sun's not up or if it's cloudy, there's no way to understand, you know, which direction you're traveling.
00:08:21.180I feel like synchronicities can be used as a compass to, you know, each fork in the path.
00:08:30.340You can use that synchronicity to make a decision, to make a choice on how you're going to proceed.
00:08:36.020And I found that the more I recognize and sort of embrace these synchronicities, the more, you know, the stronger the pull gets, the more powerful the following synchronicity gets.
00:08:52.080There's a higher resonance to the whole thing.
00:08:53.820And I've been, I made kind of a, oh, just a declaration in a way to post all my synchronicities online.
00:09:02.200Some of them might be completely benign and not mean anything at all, but I've been doing them anyway.
00:09:06.680But, and I also think that actually sharing them publicly gives them a different resonance, gives them a stronger power than they might have had if I just, you know, kept them locked in my own head.
00:09:19.980Or if I had only, you know, scribbled them down in a diary and then, you know, never shared that diary with anyone.
00:09:26.080Maybe it's little landmarks we planned before we got here.
00:09:28.400This and this will happen and this will trigger my memory for this and this.
00:09:34.260Or it's, you know, or we are outwardly influencing the universe from a subconscious way, you know, that, you know, I know that there's an author, his name is Dr. Kirby Surprise.
00:09:47.160And he puts forth an argument, which is interesting, I don't know if it's true or not, that the observer is actually creating the synchronistic experience the same way that in a laboratory, you know, people will do a coin toss experiment and it will not be random.
00:10:07.340It should be random by all, you know, it should be perfectly random, but it's not.
00:10:11.420They have some, for some reason there is the observer has the ability to influence reality itself and change the outcome of the coin toss in a way that's easily documented.
00:10:44.300I wrote an essay a while back that got put, and this is actually interesting, it got put in Alan Green's second book called Sync Book Two.
00:10:54.780And the title of the essay is Synchronicity and the UFO Abductee.
00:10:58.580And I had been little by little coming to terms with my own experiences and I found that I was capable of denying, you know, like I had what would be fairly profound experiences that I was, you know, actively aggressively denying.
00:11:18.560That I was, you know, pushing out of my mind, I was not allowing them to seem real to me.
00:11:27.700And on some level I recognized that, you know, something very real was going on.
00:11:34.320But it wasn't the actual events, it wasn't the actual memories of the odd experiences that were influencing the way I was framing it.
00:11:42.540It was actually the follow-up synchronicities that were having the larger impact on me, where I was having very profound coincidental experiences.
00:11:56.140I figured out a way to ignore, you know, some events in my youth and some events fairly recently, but I could not ignore the synchronicities.
00:12:05.740So it was less the experience, you know, perhaps I've got a missing time and seeing UFOs, but it was more the experience of the synchronicity that forced me to face the reality of all this.
00:12:24.580Now, I have a friend and in some sort of like, you know, state of pontification, you know, I said, you know,
00:12:31.680I think that UFO abductees have more synchronicities than the average person.
00:12:36.300And she kind of rolled her eyes and said, anyone on a spiritual path will have lots of synchronicities.
00:15:09.880And and if you know, you can imagine a big western valley and then fairly close to where I was lying, there was a set of, you know, rolling hills that were kind of looming above me.
00:15:22.100And I looked up and there was a round structure and I and I just looked at it and I completely thought like, oh, this is a somebody.
00:15:30.580This is a building, a big round building.
00:15:33.640And I even in the moment I went through the sort of the mental thought process of thinking like, wow, if this was a if this was a flying saucer, if this was like an unknown UFO, I would sense it.
00:15:46.960I would feel it, you know, like I would feel something odd.
00:15:49.640So I was very calm, you know, that kind of peaceful sensation when you just ease out of sleep.
00:16:00.180I felt completely at peace and completely calm.
00:16:04.000I woke up a couple more times throughout the night and the structure was still there.
00:16:08.220And I there was also another point when I woke up and there was a light very close to me on the ground.
00:16:14.060Now, to describe where I was lying, there was some bushes nearby where the car was parked.
00:16:18.260And and so I didn't have a big, long field of view down low, but I could definitely sense that there was a light, you know, just on the opposite side of some set of bushes that didn't seem necessarily bright.
00:16:30.360It wasn't like a car headlight or anything like that.
00:16:32.160So I figured someone else must have just pulled in to do the same thing that I was doing, which was just sleeping on the side of the road.
00:16:38.080And and and I just laid my head back down and went back to sleep.
00:16:42.560I woke up around must have been around 4 a.m.
00:16:45.980I was completely content and refreshed and and felt, you know, like this was a good time to start driving.
00:16:51.940But, you know, before there was any traffic, so I just hopped in the car and tossed everything in the back and and started driving again.
00:17:00.860When I got home, which would have been later that same day, I did something that is is unusual that surprised me.
00:17:07.600I got on Google Earth because I figured I could look up and see what this big round building was.
00:17:13.400So I just checked Google Earth and and I'm very skilled with maps.
00:18:00.880The images are of one of them is just a recreation of the the hillside with the what I visually remember seeing, which is pretty accurate, as I recall.
00:18:10.440Of the round structure, you know, so it was just it would look like and it looks like an illuminated squatty cylinder that has a here.
00:18:38.320So that was less than 24 hours later at when I actually drew that.
00:18:41.760I used to colored it in with using Photoshop.
00:18:46.960But and then I grabbed some other images just of maps and exactly where, you know, I was sleeping and stuff like that just to give it an idea.
00:20:28.420I knew that the third event would would line up on that that string that the map was that string ended up to be, I don't know, you know, well over 200 miles long.
00:20:37.840And when I zoomed in on that line using Google Maps, the there was an event that took place in 2011 that that lined up like to the millimeter.
00:20:55.160Three experiences in the same area, kind of dot, dot, dot, dot.
00:21:05.520So it's not quite, you know, it's not like they all happened in a, you know, a tiny area.
00:21:08.820That's a big sprawling of the of the of the southern Utah.
00:21:14.200So in each one of those events, you know, taken individually are are equally as profound or is probably more profound than what happened the other night on that Sunday night sleeping on the side of the road 19 days ago.
00:21:29.520So what kind of things did you have before or surrounding the event?
00:21:34.500Well, so one thing that happened when I got home is I got a phone call from someone.
00:21:39.220She's also a blogger and she's had her own direct experience.
00:22:07.600But when I posted the thing the next day, she got back to me right away.
00:22:11.340And she said that she had seen the same light on a hilltop when after she saw my illustration, she said she had seen that same light on a hilltop.
00:22:21.400And it was it was almost the same experience where she was in her house.
00:22:40.640And she did it two or three times, just like I did it that night.
00:22:43.540And then the next morning she woke up and there was nothing there.
00:22:46.900And that was, you know, she kind of had that like, you know, oh, shit moment where she was like, oh, you know, like, I think I know what that means.
00:22:52.420Um, the, uh, and so she called and then another woman contacted me who very rarely contacts me, uh, who's also had her own set of experiences the same day.
00:23:06.900Um, we also have sort of a benign conversation and then later she gets back to me and she said, oh, I saw that same thing on a hillside.
00:23:16.060Uh, and then she, you know, she basically told almost the same story that, that, uh, you know, the other woman had shared.
00:23:27.920Well, my thing, my thought is, is if it's, I don't think it's a government craft because, um, because of the weird synchronicities and the psychic event that followed in the, in the, the making the map really, uh, kind of waked me out.
00:23:42.180I gotta say, I mean, it was so, I mean, you're sitting here, I'm sitting all alone at my house.
00:23:47.880I zoom in on this thing and I realized like, damn, this is like, this is freakishly exact in a way that defies any logic.
00:23:57.300So, uh, so, you know, I don't think the government could land their, you know, high tech military craft on a hillside and then, you know, give me a psychic message and make sure that all these things lined up that took, you know, four years to, to unravel.
00:24:14.060So, so, so I don't know, you know, this is going to sound a little self, I don't want to say self-conscious or, you know, self-aggrandizing or anything like that.
00:24:24.560But it's, my sense is that the map was, was, was, uh, introduced to me specifically so I could play detective and, and kind of, and kind of use it as a clue and try to solve something.
00:24:43.500Uh, it, and I, and it, and it feels like, well, I don't know what its intended purpose was, but the result of it was, uh, the next, very next blog post is something I had actually never, uh, posted as clearly before.
00:25:00.740I had certainly hinted to it and alluded to it and danced around the subject, uh, but I basically said that, you know, whatever's going on, I am involved.
00:25:10.760Uh, I can no longer deny it and that I am involved with this, with this, you know, giant challenging phenomena.
00:25:19.560Um, I sort of danced around the word abductee.
00:25:24.340I just doesn't feel honest to use that term.
00:25:26.140Um, I think what I said is, um, uh, I feel that I am intertwined with the UFO reality.
00:25:35.660So in your view, what the hell is the alien abduction phenomena?
00:25:41.300Well, I mean, there's a, I mean, the alien, alien abduction is a simple, I mean, it's a catch term that gets used, you know, by, I use it all the time too.
00:26:01.300I mean, I literally, I can, I can, I'm, I can wrestle with it from every different angle.
00:26:07.120I feel like I can speculate it about it, you know, backwards, forwards, you know, and, and, and, and so I don't have any concrete answer.
00:26:15.040I do feel that, um, oh, it's, my sense is that there's like, um, it's a, it's an awakening process for the individuals experiencing it.
00:26:29.080Um, you know, they are being confronted, and I'll include myself in this, uh, with something that shatters their, their definition of, of normal reality.
00:26:40.460Um, and, and, and then secondhand, the greater public large, excuse me, the greater public at large can then, um, you know, this information is out there.
00:26:56.100And so, and I, and I think it's seeping out there more and more and more specifically through the internet.
00:27:01.860Uh, the greater public at large is, is being affected.
00:27:07.640You know, the, the, the ripples in the pond are created by the people having the firsthand experience.
00:27:12.280Those ripples are somehow affecting not just the individual, but the collective as a whole.
00:27:16.860Uh, my, my hope is that this wake-up call, this, this, uh, enlightenment process, that's kind of a lofty term.
00:27:25.740Maybe I should avoid something so fraught with kind of a religious overtone.
00:27:28.860Um, but, uh, uh, that this process is, um, I mean, I, I just, I just feel like it's, something is needed right now in humanity.
00:27:40.140Uh, whether this is playing a big role, a small role, I don't know.
00:27:43.460But, um, but I think that the awakening of individuals and hopefully the collective, you know, has a beneficial effect on, on humanity as a whole.
00:27:53.640So, you mean aliens could be assisting in that?
00:28:01.620Oh, yeah, they certainly, well, they're certainly, they're certainly, uh, you know, I've talked to a lot of people who have this experience.
00:28:07.940You know, they'll say, like, oh, you know, I, I, you know, had this missing time.
00:28:23.340Now I'm, uh, you know, reading these different books.
00:28:26.040Now my interests have turned, you know, like I'm a vegetarian.
00:28:29.100I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who have had these experiences and then, you know, follow up by saying, like, oh, now I'm a vegetarian.
00:28:35.700Uh, so, uh, whatever's going on in that long-winded explanation, uh, like, uh, I don't think that it was, uh, you know, uh, a military craft parked on a hill that, that, like, created all the follow-up synchronicities.
00:28:49.940You know, something I notice is basically two camps of people that have been, that have had alien encounters or have been abducted.
00:28:57.440There's one that's just terrified and freaked out.
00:28:59.960And then there's these other people that are like, it's okay.
00:29:13.040Like, it's, it's can be, yes, I've encountered exactly that.
00:29:15.960And, uh, you know, where it's interesting is to, I, uh, uh, at this UFO conference that I go to sometimes, uh, you know, there'll be a experience or support group.
00:29:25.680And it's just, you can just picture an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.
00:29:28.040Everyone's sitting in a circle and, and, uh, talking about their, their experiences.
00:29:32.320And there's a, uh, I mean, like, people get angry at each other.
00:29:38.860You know, the people that have the love and light experiences can't relate to the people who have the terrifying experiences.
00:29:44.180And the terrifying, people who have had the terrifying experiences, you know, uh, yeah, there's a great gulf.
00:29:49.180I mean, I've seen people getting, you know, not quite shouting matches, but close.
00:29:52.780And, um, yeah, so, so there is, there's a real split as far as how the, how the overall experience manifests.
00:30:02.620I've heard people say like, oh, all you have to do is just, you know, it's, you're bringing your own preconceptions there and you're creating your own fears.
00:30:10.360And, and, yeah, like, I don't know if that really plays out, you know, like, um, the, I mean, I, you know, I, one, the easier solution to me is like, you know, some people are just shit out of luck and they get the, they get the darker experiences, uh, for reasons that like, I, I wouldn't even attempt to guess.
00:30:27.060Yeah. And I don't think it's all just made up in the mind. Either it is, or it really is happening.
00:30:33.980Well, something's really happening and it may be much more complicated than the, than the, than the surface story.
00:30:38.660I mean, like, you know, you could get a bunch of elementary school kids together and they could have a conference and they could talk about, you know, uh, you know, the, all the clues they have that, you know, Santa Claus lives on the North Pole.
00:30:47.960And, uh, you know, it's because their parents told them, you know, they could read it in a book.
00:30:52.220Uh, they met this nice man at the shopping mall who explained that he lived at the North Pole.
00:30:56.640And, um, and then, you know, there's going to come a day when, when that's, that's not going to play out as true.
00:31:04.360They're going to realize like, oh, there's something else going on.
00:31:07.440And that, that, that mythology, you know, may have served some purpose, but now I've moved beyond that.
00:31:11.960And so I, I sort of look at the UFO contact experience in that realm a little bit.
00:31:18.660Like, you know, uh, you know, like there's not much you can say to your dog besides, you know, good dog, good dog, you know, and there may not be much they can say to us beyond, um, you know, whatever we're from the Pleiades.
00:31:36.720Yeah, no, I've, I mean, I've befriended a lot of people who channel stuff in it.
00:31:40.060And I, in the, in, I think that the, they're being quite honest as far as that's the material they're receiving.
00:31:46.220And, um, though, though it may not be entirely accurate, it may be in some metaphoric or mythological that, you know, never say that to a channel or I found that out.
00:31:57.000Like, you know, like, oh, you might, you might be talking in metaphor, you know, and they don't want to hear that.
00:32:01.240But, uh, but that's my sense is that, you know, like I, I listen very carefully to what they say, but I don't, um, you know, I, I weigh it very cautiously.
00:32:12.200Well, and the thing is, too, we're all channeling all the time.
00:32:14.840If we're all connected and all part of some kind of creation, it comes through the different funnels.
00:32:20.840Yes, but those funnels and those blinders, we've, we've integrated them so seamlessly that we, we ignore it.
00:32:26.940We don't understand that that stuff is, is coming through.
00:32:29.140So, yeah, I, I know exactly what you're saying, um, but, but, you know, the vast majority of us are completely oblivious to the, to the power of those channeled messages.
00:32:38.000Have you had any experiences where you've encountered a being or even an entity, it doesn't have to be an alien, could be something astral,
00:32:44.540where the feeling of your consciousness is being almost sampled or ripped out of your body?
00:32:51.420Uh, I have never had that direct experience.
00:32:53.960Um, I mean, the, that, the, the event that I talked about earlier, that kind of psychic knowing has happened to me a few times.
00:33:01.980Each time it's happened, it has been directly related to the, to the UFO phenomenon.
00:33:05.980It's not like I'm getting, you know, uh, a psychic download, like where the best parking lot at the, or best parking spot at the, at the grocery store is.
00:33:13.840Um, you know, it's, each time it's happened, it has been directly connected with the, with the phenomena somehow.
00:33:20.840Um, no, so I have not had that kind of, uh, that, that experience.
00:33:25.020I did have a very, so that map I was talking about, there was the, you know, the westernmost point was the event that happened 19 days ago.
00:33:32.120The easternmost point was an event that happened, uh, four years ago.
00:33:41.160Um, that, uh, that event, that event I, I experienced along with another person, we both experienced the exact same thing.
00:33:52.760We experienced a profound sense of terror that, that defies any simple explanation.
00:34:00.380Um, uh, we were in a tent at the time and I've spent a lot of time over the years in the backcountry in tents.
00:34:06.080We were actually in the front country or just parked on the side of the road in a, in a little forest service road.
00:34:11.980Um, and, you know, it was, it was beyond, I mean, mere vocabulary words wouldn't be able to describe it.
00:34:21.160I've talked with other people who've had the abduction experience and they will, they will, uh, you know, that we'll both try to describe what we're talking about.
00:34:28.940And the only thing we can kind of come, you know, what, what the words we, we gravitate to that we share is when, you know, when we start saying like, it felt like synthetic fear.
00:34:38.880So I have felt that and that once was enough.
00:34:43.160Well, let's also talk about the role of owls in UFO sightings.
00:34:46.600I know you've written about this quite a bit.
00:34:47.940Well, this is coming directly from my own experience.
00:34:51.220So this, like the, the, the fact that I've been writing about it has, is, is definitely, uh, just rolls out of my own, you know, my own curiosity and my own burning kind of, you know, desire to play detective and figure out what's up.
00:35:03.760Um, yeah, I've had, for reasons I don't quite understand, I've had a lot of owl sightings.
00:35:09.740It was actually recently I, there was a guy with him from a raptor center where, where they take injured birds of prey and they take them to a, um, uh, like a veterinarian, uh, ranch near where I live.
00:35:23.640And, uh, and then that, that they will then tour around and bring the, the, the animals to, uh, this was like a fundraising event.
00:35:32.380So it was in a barn and they had a golden eagle and a falcon and then they had an owl.
00:35:37.100So I was talking to one of the biologists there and, uh, I was kind of like, oh, so, uh, you know, here, let me run this by.
00:35:44.680And I told him a story where I saw a bunch of owls and he was like, no, no, that doesn't happen.
00:35:48.780And it's like, oh, then I told him another one.
00:35:50.140And he's like, no, no, that doesn't happen.
00:35:52.020And then, uh, you know, I kept on doing it.
00:35:53.620And at a certain point I got kind of a sense of glee, you know, like I was almost like realizing like, let's see how far I can push this.
00:35:58.840So I kept on telling him one story after another.
00:36:00.700And you could see him actually becoming physically uncomfortable and like move away from me.
00:36:05.440So, uh, uh, but you know, first of all, I live in a place where there are lots of owls.
00:36:10.700So if I'm going to see owls, this is about as good a place as anywhere where I could see them.
00:36:14.880Uh, but I don't, and I've talked to other people who have had the same sorts of owl experiences.
00:36:24.160And I don't quite understand the, um, what it means.
00:36:28.720And I'm not, there's, there's two things going on.
00:36:30.280So there's a screen memory, which if anyone who's looked into this even slightly, you know, the overall UFO abduction lore, there's a, there's a story that, that gets repeated over and over again.
00:36:41.140And the, the, the person having the abduction event will say like, oh, I was driving down the road.
00:36:53.980And the next thing I knew I was pulling into my driveway and I was two hours late getting home.
00:36:59.460Now that kind of story you can, you can, you know, through hypnotic regression, which has got its own, its own bag of worms as far as how to, how much trust that.
00:37:10.460But, um, the thought is that that is a screen memory, that there's some sort of hypnotic, uh, projection placed into the mind of the abductee where they are being, they are being shown or they are, they are being theatrically, uh, treated to the visual image of an owl when what it is actually doing is masking the presence of what, what is quite probably a gray alien with the big black eyes.
00:37:35.840You know, the eyes being the, the, the focal point of the whole thing.
00:37:39.640Now, what I'm talking about is real owls, owls that are, um, you know, that are just showing up at, at odd and prescient moments.
00:37:50.220Um, should I just tell you an owl story?
00:37:57.360Now, uh, I said earlier that like, this is all pretty new for me.
00:38:03.280It's only happened in the last few years where it feels like I've been hit pretty hard and this stuff has accelerated in my life.
00:38:08.180Uh, this would have been right at the point when I was contemplating, you know, really looking into this stuff.
00:38:16.520Like at, at, at that point, the story I'm about to tell, I was in complete and total denial except for the little, the little, uh, flicker of a question in the back of my mind that said, you know, you should probably look into this.
00:39:11.080So we didn't really, you know, log that many miles and we found a beautiful spot to camp.
00:39:15.300And we were sitting on this big flat rock and I was making dinner out of a little camp stove and we were having this conversation.
00:39:23.860And there was this point in the conversation where I realized like, wow, this, this woman is impressive.
00:39:29.620Like something, like she said something that triggered something in me that like, like, like all of a sudden I realized like, well, this is one smart woman that I'm, that I'm interacting with.
00:39:40.020And it was at that moment that an owl flew over us and then another owl and then a third owl.
00:39:47.040And so these three owls flew above us all throughout the sunset.
00:39:53.060And what we did is we laid our sleeping bags down on the ground and just, uh, laid under the stars.
00:39:58.140We didn't have a shelter and it continued on as we were laying on our backs.
00:40:01.600Like the owls, the owls would literally swoop down in front of us and block out our, our vision for just a, you know, just a micro instant.
00:40:14.160So even as we were laying down on our backs, the owls were flying right above us.
00:40:19.580Uh, unless someone's spying on you through the owls.
00:40:22.560Unless, well, that's actually something that's, that's, that you can speculate about.
00:40:26.820That is, is someone using the owls, someone, let's say the gray aliens or this, you know, some alien presence.
00:40:33.220Uh, are they using the owls, using their eyes the same way that, um, you know, like a, someone in the Pentagon would use a security camera on a drone, you know, that getting, you know, they were checking us out.
00:40:45.100They were seeing us and an owl would be a perfect, uh, instrument if someone actually did have the psychic powers to tap into their field of vision.
00:40:52.280I mean, they, they have night vision, they, they're quiet, they can fly, um, you know, they can, they can travel without, you know, creating a lot of attention to themselves.
00:41:00.220So, um, you know, I have no idea whether that's true or not.
00:41:03.160It is fun to speculate along those lines.
00:41:05.600Uh, now here, let me just, so this woman's name is Kristen.
00:41:08.780Uh, uh, we were both a little freaked out.
00:41:11.200Like, wow, that was really weird, the owl thing.
00:41:12.880So, uh, a couple days later, I said, hey, I'm going out camping again.