Michael T. Griffith is a two-time graduate of the Defense Language Institute in Arabic and Hebrew and of the U.S. Air Force Technical Training School. He is the author of four books, numerous articles, and a DVD called A Southern View of the Civil War.
00:04:38.920And so I got home to my mom's house, that is, and I just happened to mention, just as an aside,
00:04:46.660I was like, you know, on the way home, I drove by that Jefferson Davis home, and there was a huge Confederate flag flying.
00:04:55.680I can't believe they can even do that.
00:04:57.940Now, my mom had never, ever said anything to me about the Civil War.
00:05:03.820All the time, growing up, she never uttered a word.
00:05:08.960And, in fact, she, I always thought that she was fairly liberal.
00:05:13.640And as soon as I said that, you know, the thing about the Confederate flag, she, her whole countenance, I mean, her eyes got really intense.
00:05:25.500And she said, Michael, your ancestors fought for the Confederacy, and they would be ashamed to hear you say that.
00:05:49.620And long story short, she just said, well, you know, that I had been brainwashed and that I had only read one side of the story, et cetera, et cetera.
00:06:02.220And I just, I would, you know, I was sitting there thinking, well, that's because there is only one side of the story, Mom.
00:06:08.660And so she just dared me to go down to the Jefferson Davis home, go to the bookstore there, and buy a couple books that gave the southern side.
00:06:23.080And I was like, I don't even want to be seen walking into that place.
00:06:30.800Just to say, okay, I've read what they have to say.
00:06:35.440I went down there, and I bought Jefferson Davis' book, The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government, and I bought Chili's book, Facts the Historians Leave Out.
00:06:55.700And that really, that started my interest in the subject, and I, so I just, I began to read anything that I could get my hands on, and now here I am.
00:07:13.320Yeah, it's always good to question the official version of history.
00:07:17.300So as a refresher for people, can you give us a brief summary of what the official textbook version of the Civil War teaches us?
00:07:25.700Basically, that the South started the war, that they fought over slavery, that the North fought the war to liberate the slaves, and that the South was just always the bully in the case, always trying to take control of the government at all times, I mean, to have their way all the time in the government.
00:07:52.860And that's basically, you know, that the war started when the Confederates fired on Fort Sumter, and that that was an unprovoked attack, you know, with just an innocent out of the blue, I mean, an attack out of the blue on an innocent federal garrison there at the fort.
00:08:20.200And that's why the North invaded, essentially, that's how I view it.
00:08:27.520In fact, in fact, it's interesting, I always thought that the South had invaded the North.
00:08:33.920I, you know, I just had assumed that, well, if the, if the South started the war, well, then they, you know, they must have invaded.
00:08:42.580I knew about Gettysburg, just that there had been a battle there.
00:08:46.340So I just figured that was part of the Southern invasion.
00:09:03.460I mean, I mean, that's how, that's how erroneous my, my thinking on it was.
00:09:10.000Now, if we go back a little bit, why did the South secede?
00:09:15.560Well, I think, I think that that's a two part or that, that, that the answer there is a two part answer.
00:09:22.060Because, um, there were two waves of succession.
00:09:27.760There was the first wave involving the Gulf Coast states or the, um, deep South states.
00:09:35.680And then there was a second wave of, of, uh, four upper South states.
00:09:42.640In the first wave, uh, the, the main issue over, over, um, or the main reason for the session was slavery or concerns about, about, uh, slavery as, as, as far as, uh, further attempts from the North, like the, like the John Brown raid to, to incite
00:10:11.320Slaver Bolton South and, um, also that they, that, uh, the, uh, uh, the secessionists feared that, that, uh, that the Republicans would use, um, illegal means, uh, to, um, try to abolish slavery.
00:10:29.820Um, that was the main reason for the deep South secession, but there were also other reasons.
00:10:38.940And if, in fact, if you read, um, three of the seven secession statements by those, um, seven deep South states, three of them mentioned economic complaints.
00:10:57.140The federal tariff and, and how, how, um, um, federal money was, was being, being allocated at the time.
00:11:04.860Um, and that, and that was also a, um, major issue.
00:11:09.720In fact, when, when, um, Robert Toomes gave his famous speech to the, uh, Georgia legislature to try to persuade them to, uh, the feed.
00:11:22.260If you go and read that speech, he spent about half his time on economic complaints about the tariff, about, about how, um, federal money was distributed, about, about, um, certain laws that, um, favored northern industry, northern businesses over the South, over Southern interests.
00:11:49.200And so, um, okay, so then there's that phase of, uh, the session.
00:11:55.680Now then there was a second phase, um, a few weeks later involving the, the, um, four upper South states.
00:12:05.700Now, it's interesting that, that, um, those four states had already voted on the session, um, and they had rejected it by fairly wide margins.
00:12:21.140Um, and that, that's where things, things stood.
00:12:24.600But then came the, the, the, uh, the, uh, the incident at Fort Sumter, and after it became obvious that, um, Lincoln was trying to use force, that's when those, those, um, four upper South states seceded.
00:12:42.600So, you know, if, if you want to do a count of it, that means that, that, um, four of the 11 Confederate states rejected slavery as a reason to leave the Union.
00:12:58.920It's also important to note, too, that the Republican Party in Lincoln's day, it, it was a new party, and they were no friend of the South, correct?
00:13:05.460That's true, yes, they were very, uh, hostile toward the South.
00:13:10.580They, um, viewed the South as almost un-American, anti-Democratic.
00:13:18.040I mean, the, uh, Republican press, uh, was just horrible, uh, as far as how they betrayed the South in their articles.
00:13:27.680I mean, they had all these, um, stories about the South.
00:13:31.280I mean, it sounded like, almost like, like, you know, a giant prison or something, if, if you were to believe these articles.
00:13:38.360And they're just all, all sorts of tales about, about the slave power conspiracy and, and how they were, they were trying to extend slavery all over the country, which, of course, was just false.
00:13:51.580I mean, it was just, just, just, um, absolutely false.
00:13:54.920The Southern, I mean, even, even, uh, most ardent, fire-eating, um, slavery supporter had, had, had no intention of ever trying to force a, um, Northern state to become a slave state.
00:14:14.060I mean, I was just, it was contrary to their, their, their, their understanding of, um, states' rights.
00:14:29.240I think, I think that, that, look at the evidence.
00:14:31.900Um, you know, if you, if you go back to the debate at the, uh, of the Constitution and, um, when it was ratified and everything, I, I think it's very clear that those who, that, uh, the, the state, when they ratified the Constitution,
00:14:49.340they certainly thought that it was voluntary and that if they didn't, you know, that if things went badly and, uh, and that they didn't think that they were getting a good deal or anything like that, that they could leave.
00:15:03.460And they, and, uh, and in fact, uh, you know, there's just, there's, there's a ton of evidence on this point about, uh, about just how, how almost all the founders thought that, that, uh, that, uh, this was an experiment, uh, that, uh, that it was voluntary.
00:15:21.460And in fact, if you, um, read the Constitution, there wasn't anything in there about the, um, federal union being permanent or perpetual.
00:15:35.060There isn't anything in there that, that, that, that, that a state cannot revoke its ratification.
00:15:43.900Um, and that's interesting in that, in that the, uh, Constitution under, under, um, the Articles of Confederation, that, did say that, uh, that, that union was perpetual.
00:15:59.220Yet, it, it broke up after a few years, voluntarily, also.
00:16:04.500Now, there were also many Northerners and newspaper outlets who believed the South had a right to secede, correct?
00:16:11.620There, there were, in fact, if there's a, there's a book called, um, I think it's called Northern Editorials on Secession.
00:16:19.020Uh, but yeah, there are, there were, there were a lot of, uh, Northern newspapers that, that opined at the time that the South ought to be allowed to leave in peace and, and that it had the right to leave in peace.
00:16:33.840And, and, and, and, and he, he invoked, uh, um, the Declaration of Independence in his argument.
00:16:42.960Well, when you think about it, they were prophetic.
00:16:45.100They didn't like the shenanigans of the federal government, and they saw what a big power it was becoming, and they're, they said, we don't want to be part of this.
00:16:52.880And then the Norther said, oh, yes, you will.
00:17:01.680You know, I've done the tour in Charleston, and you would, you would probably be mortified after researching this, what they're telling the tourists, thousands of them that come every year.
00:17:08.800Well, you know, okay, if you, if you go back a few weeks, um, Lincoln sent his, his longtime friend, Ward Layman, down to, uh, down to Charleston to go and, uh, see the governor.
00:17:29.200And, and, and he told him that, that he was there to arrange for the evacuation of the fort.
00:17:35.580And so for weeks, um, the Confederacy understood that they were going to leave the fort.
00:17:42.820Um, William Seward at about the same time was saying the same thing to the, uh, delegation there in DC that, that, uh, Jefferson Davis had sent to, uh,
00:17:57.420try to try to establish peaceful relations with the federal government.
00:18:04.080Um, Seward was telling them over and over that, you know, that, yes, we will evacuate the fort.
00:18:10.120Well, and, and I think that there is evidence that, that at some point, um, Lincoln was leaning toward evacuating the fort.
00:18:22.160I think, I think that there was a lot of pressure on him from various sides.
00:18:26.300There were a lot of, uh, northerners who just said, look, just let them go.
00:18:32.240If they want to leave, great, good ridden.
00:18:36.020Um, a lot of his cabinet members said, you know, look, you know, if you try to reinforce the fort, it's going to mean war.
00:20:58.320In fact, in fact, uh, James McPherson wrote a book about this, about, about why, why the, uh, soldiers felt they were going to war and, um, what they were fighting for.
00:21:12.180Um, I don't, I can't remember the name of the book exactly, but it's something like, uh, cause and country or something like that.
00:21:19.040Anyway, it's in my articles, but, um, um, yeah, the vast majority didn't think that, that, um, they were fighting for emancipation or even over slavery.
00:22:05.300And also, also, also, um, about 5,000 Hispanics, uh, served in the Confederate Army.
00:22:12.180Uh, but yes, I think, I think the evidence indicates that there were about 3,000 to 6,000 blacks in the Confederate Army serving as combat soldiers, or at least at times serving in that capacity.
00:22:23.360Uh, and then there, there, now, there, there isn't any dispute about the fact that, that, that there were, that there were, that, that there were a fair amount of Indians, um, fighting for the Confederacy.
00:22:36.300I mean, the, uh, Confederacy made the, uh, Cherokee is a very, very, very appealing offer, uh, and, uh, and a lot of them fought for the Confederacy.
00:22:47.080There was a general named, uh, Dan Wattee, um, who, uh, he was a general in the Confederate Army that was also Cherokee, uh, and he, uh, uh, he was over a, um, gate of Cherokee Indians who were in the Confederate Army.
00:23:04.980And, uh, and, in fact, even, even toward the, toward the end of the war, in fact, uh, as, as Lee surrendered, they were doing pretty well, and, and, and, and, in fact, were, uh, starting to carry the day in their area anyway.
00:23:20.760Let's talk about the truth surrounding Southern slavery, because people have this image that all Southerners just owned hordes of slaves and whipped and raped them daily.
00:23:28.960And, by the way, there were lots of white slaves that existed during this era, too, but 69 to 75 percent of Southern families did not own slaves, and it was a dying institution.
00:23:42.020Uh, according to the 1860 census, only, uh, two-thirds of, uh, Southern families had slaves, and only about, oh, maybe 8 or 10 percent of Southern citizens held titles for slaves.
00:23:59.880And, uh, so, you know, majority of Southerners weren't slaveholders.
00:24:05.560In fact, if you, uh, you look at the Confederate Army, the, uh, vast majority of the soldiers weren't slaveholders.
00:24:12.720If you, uh, look at the officers, even, the majority of them were not slaveholders, either.
00:24:19.060You asked about the conditions of slavery and everything.
00:24:21.500I mean, it's a touchy subject in that, you know, you, you don't want to seem to, to endorse slavery.
00:24:31.060But, uh, but on the other hand, I'm, I mean, I think of it like this.
00:24:36.320If my, if my daughter were, were, were abducted, let's say, and her, her abductors, um, treated her humanely, um, and then I got her back.
00:24:50.360Now, I would never, ever, ever excuse their act of abducting her, never, under, under any circumstances.
00:24:58.500But I would admit, well, okay, well, they had her, they treated her humanely.
00:25:02.780And so, uh, I think that that's the point that, that ought to be made about Southern slavery is that, you know, yes, it was, it was, um, morally wrong.
00:25:13.480But the, you know, a, a, a, I think that most, um, slaveholders, uh, treated their slaves humanely.
00:25:24.580Yeah, and they let them get married, they had lots of children.
00:25:28.440I mean, when you look at what the Arabs did, they just castrated their slaves.
00:25:33.220Well, and, you know, there, there have been some studies on the fact that, um, in, in point of fact, your, your average slave in terms of his workday, uh, the, the, uh, things that he was, that, that he got for his labor, his, um, living conditions,
00:25:52.240and that the average slave in those areas, uh, are, are in those, those regards was better off than, than a lot of Northern factory workers.
00:26:02.220I mean, if you go into the, uh, you know, you read about, um, some of the conditions of, of, uh, Northern industrial workers, and it was just, it was horrible.