Radio 3Fourteen - The Self Aware Universe

00:00:00.000 Okay.

00:00:30.000 This is Radio 314 on the RedEyes Radio Network.

00:00:45.720 Hey, this is Lana.

00:00:47.540 Amit Goswami, PhD, is a retired theoretical physics professor,

00:00:51.000 a senior resident researcher at the world-renowned Institute of Noetic Sciences,

00:00:55.340 and a pioneer of the new paradigm of science called science within consciousness.

00:00:58.940 Goswami is the author of the textbook Quantum Mechanics that is used in universities throughout the world

00:01:04.460 and has also written many books based on his research on quantum physics and consciousness.

00:01:09.620 Amit appeared in the film What the Bleep Do We Know?,

00:01:12.220 The Dalai Lama Renaissance, and the award-winning documentary The Quantum Activist.

00:01:20.480 Welcome, Amit. I'm so pleased to be speaking with you today.

00:01:23.300 You know, I read your book, The Self-Aware Universe, when I was 16,

00:01:26.520 and it set me free, especially coming from a Christian background.

00:01:30.140 And I also grew up in Oregon, and I kick myself for not taking your physics classes.

00:01:38.940 Well, you know, my physics classes were into two groups.

00:01:43.900 The first phase, they were quite the traditional way.

00:01:47.700 And then, the last 10 years of my career, I started giving a very different course.

00:01:54.920 Wow.

00:01:55.480 I'm sure.

00:01:57.360 Wow.

00:01:58.080 And so, how's living in Eugene?

00:02:01.800 Well, you know, it's a good town in many ways, and I like it.

00:02:09.880 It breaks a little bit too much, but other than that, I like it.

00:02:12.800 Exactly. Yeah, I'm from Bend, so just a couple hours away, and it's much drier over there.

00:02:19.160 Yeah.

00:02:19.960 So, before we leap into the quantum world, can you briefly explain what material science is?

00:02:27.020 Well, material science does not need so much explanation,

00:02:31.920 except to say that it is the very old science,

00:02:36.300 started with Dr. Gallardo, Newton, and, of course, Darwin.

00:02:41.240 Then, this science holds that everything is matter.

00:02:45.280 Everything is matter and material interactions.

00:02:48.760 Never mind how our meaning comes from.

00:02:51.000 Never mind this theory cannot explain our feelings or intuitions.

00:02:58.320 Never mind that this old science has paradoxes of quantum physics that it cannot resolve.

00:03:05.820 Never mind that quantum non-locality is now an experimentally verified idea.

00:03:10.240 So, despite all this, a very large number of people hang on to this idea that matter is everything,

00:03:19.920 because it simplifies their lives.

00:03:22.700 But how about the rest of us?

00:03:24.480 That's the question.

00:03:25.520 That's right.

00:03:25.940 The rest of us causes an enormous amount of problem, because, you know, we would like to feel,

00:03:32.320 we would like to have values in our life.

00:03:34.500 And when the major worldview says that, no, there are no such thing as feeling and values,

00:03:39.640 we are stuck.

00:03:41.520 Why do you think it has taken so long to get beyond materialistic science in the mainstream?

00:03:48.140 Why is it that they're just catching on to quantum physics more so?

00:03:52.400 Well, there's a lot of reason.

00:03:55.220 I mean, first of all, it was just caution, and that's understandable.

00:03:59.020 One should be very cautious in terms of worldview change.

00:04:02.920 Second of all, though, it has been clear, because this new science has been around now for 20 years,

00:04:12.100 and an enormous amount of data is there.

00:04:15.640 And most importantly, you know, there is now a good theory based on quantum physics.

00:04:21.140 The lessons of quantum physics, it would be, they would be radical.

00:04:24.960 So, that has been something that people have recognized since 1920s, when quantum physics was founded.

00:04:33.840 So, it really should not take very long now.

00:04:38.720 But the reason it does, I think, has to do with what Upton Sinclair, the novelist, once said,

00:04:46.200 that if people make a living having wrong beliefs, it's very difficult to make them believe otherwise.

00:04:53.220 You have got a very large number of people make a lot of living doing this.

00:04:59.300 You know, it's not military-industrial complex anymore.

00:05:02.020 It's military-industrial science complex.

00:05:04.920 Yeah, that's right.

00:05:06.520 As a teacher, how did you reach the students who are more indoctrinated and possibly opposed quantum physics?

00:05:14.340 Well, the indoctrination occurs because it's the simplest way of looking at the world.

00:05:20.000 If we didn't have to admit that the world does not have feeling and intuition or values,

00:05:28.620 if everything could be computed and controlled, it does give us a simple picture of the world,

00:05:36.460 and that is the temptation for the scientists.

00:05:39.320 Yeah, that makes sense.

00:05:40.080 So, unfortunately, the world is not so simple because if the world was—somebody said something very beautiful.

00:05:51.160 If the world was simple, then the brain would be so simple that we could not be us with that brain.

00:06:00.500 That's right.

00:06:01.080 Well said.

00:06:01.680 So, tell us how you moved away from the religious teachings of your childhood to seek your path in theoretical quantum physics.

00:06:11.000 Well, yes, my childhood probably had some effect, but the immediate effect was the opposite.

00:06:18.620 I did grow up in a rather spiritual-religious worldview in my home,

00:06:24.520 and my father was a sort of a Brahmin guru, a sort of a small-scale teacher to a few disciples.

00:06:35.000 So, all that I saw, and my childhood mind, of course, reacted.

00:06:42.380 Now, the magnitude of the reaction I didn't even understand until actually I was 14,

00:06:51.120 and I was choosing my major, and all of a sudden, to my own surprise, I chose science, and then I chose physics.

00:07:00.600 So, obviously, the reaction was not as was expected.

00:07:06.280 The reaction was—what I was expected to become is, of course, spiritually interested,

00:07:15.440 and at the most going to humanities, but I actually went to science defying the spiritual-religious worldview

00:07:27.980 that my father believed in, my brothers—at least one brother believed in, older brother.

00:07:36.760 So, I was—I had that teenage rebellion sort of time.

00:07:44.520 It's true—the worldview that I grew up with was too ritualistic.

00:07:52.000 That's the right word to put in.

00:07:54.320 And I had a very creative childhood because I didn't go to school until I was 11.

00:08:01.840 And my father homeschooled me, so that gave me a large amount of time in my hand.

00:08:07.760 That's why you turned out so great.

00:08:09.820 You were not in public school.

00:08:13.200 I didn't go to public school until I was 11.

00:08:17.240 So, it really was very nice to have that freedom to learn whatever I want to learn.

00:08:24.560 That's right.

00:08:25.100 And I had that freedom of having a lot of time by myself when all my peer group would be at school.

00:08:33.080 I had nobody to play with, so I had a lot of alone time.

00:08:38.220 And so, you know, later on, when I founded the motto of creativity, do be, do be, do,

00:08:45.540 all that came back to me because I learned the value of being pretty early on, as you can see.

00:08:52.880 That's right.

00:08:54.560 And the beauty of your work is that you integrate science and spirituality together,

00:08:58.720 which really needs to be done because all of these areas are so compartmentalized,

00:09:03.680 but really they need to be bridged together.

00:09:05.320 And so, your work has been doing that.

00:09:07.940 Yes.

00:09:08.620 And then that too was, you know, how things go is very interesting, isn't it?

00:09:13.920 Because if I didn't go into science out of the rebellion towards religion and the rituals,

00:09:21.300 then, of course, I couldn't have a first-hand notion of what science is about,

00:09:26.360 what scientific materialism is about.

00:09:28.440 Because to understand the pitfalls of a philosophy of a worldview,

00:09:33.520 you really have to believe in it totally.

00:09:35.460 And because I believed in it totally, I saw the failures totally.

00:09:41.360 And I know that scientific materialism just does not work.

00:09:46.960 That's right.

00:09:47.260 So, that notion was very, very important.

00:09:51.740 The tenets of quantum physics are non-locality, discontinuity, tangled hierarchy.

00:09:57.020 Can you maybe basically summarize these principles for us?

00:10:00.120 Yes, non-locality, of course, is the most important one and the most familiar one also.

00:10:06.820 You know, this one discovery leads us to the idea of God, if you will.

00:10:12.060 How?

00:10:12.960 Because non-locality is the idea of signal-less communication.

00:10:17.160 That communication can take place using the medium of consciousness,

00:10:21.740 non-local medium, non-local consciousness, without any signal.

00:10:27.140 For a long time, science has rejected the idea of a God separate from the world,

00:10:33.240 as religions pass it, because science says any such interaction of God and the world requires signals.

00:10:43.140 But we know of no such signals that can mediate the interaction of non-matter with matter.

00:10:51.000 God has to be non-matter, obviously.

00:10:52.760 Otherwise, if God was material, then God would have to follow the laws of science.

00:10:57.140 Obviously, then God would not have any causal power.

00:11:01.180 So, science is quite straight about it.

00:11:04.800 Dualism is not tenable.

00:11:06.960 So, the idea of signal-less communication solves the problem of dualism.

00:11:13.020 Dualism does not intervene anymore.

00:11:17.300 Dualism is not needed anymore, because we posit that everything is made of consciousness.

00:11:22.520 If everything is made of consciousness, then consciousness chooses from itself, without needing any signal.

00:11:32.080 And direct verification of this idea is, is there signal-less communication between conscious beings?

00:11:38.680 And this is where, starting with Harko Bo Greenberg, a neurophysiologist at the University of Mexico in 1993-94,

00:11:46.980 there is now enormous data where two people meditate together with the intention that they will have signal-less communication with each other,

00:11:55.260 without any signals, direct communication.

00:11:58.500 And it's proven by looking at the EEG recordings from one brain which sees light flash,

00:12:08.180 but how that electrical activity from that brain gets into the other brain, which does not see light flash,

00:12:15.860 is a total mystery, if you think, with scientific materialism.

00:12:19.360 It sounds like telepathic communication.

00:12:23.060 Yes.

00:12:25.060 So, and now there are at least two dozen experiments that are repeating this success of this experiment, original experiment.

00:12:33.400 So, there is just no doubt, no doubt that there is signal-less communication.

00:12:40.220 But there are many other evidence.

00:12:42.140 There is evidence for quantum healing, non-local healing.

00:12:45.200 There is evidence for discontinuity, quantum leaps, which we are going to talk about second.

00:12:53.940 This discontinuity cannot occur in Newtonian thinking, because material interactions not only has to be local,

00:13:02.400 with always with signals, but they also have to be continuous.

00:13:06.840 Discontinuity is not allowed.

00:13:08.140 But we, human beings, have always known that when we are creative,

00:13:14.200 there is a discontinuous transition from old thinking,

00:13:18.380 discontinuously going into new thinking.

00:13:21.220 There is no chain of thought that leads from old thinking to new thinking.

00:13:25.840 Instead, there really is a transition like the electron makes,

00:13:30.640 when the electron jumps from one atomic orbit to another.

00:13:34.320 So, it's very beautiful, this data on creativity.

00:13:41.380 Long before quantum physics, people called creative experiences as aha experience.

00:13:48.740 Aha because of the surprise.

00:13:50.260 Surprise because of the discontinuity of thought.

00:13:54.220 Quantum physics is just making it easy to understand why such discontinuity takes place.

00:14:00.760 Because quantum physics is involved.

00:14:03.660 Because our brain and mind works in the quantum way.

00:14:09.720 In quantum physics, both continuous and discontinuous movement is possible.

00:14:16.700 And what about tangled hierarchy?

00:14:20.300 Tangled hierarchy is the most complex of the three.

00:14:24.440 There is a very, very important aspect of our being that materialists also cannot capture.

00:14:33.800 But only a second is required to realize that this is a very important part of our being.

00:14:40.560 Every human being has the capacity to experience something.

00:14:48.560 It could be a sensory object.

00:14:51.660 It could be a feeling object.

00:14:53.860 It could be a thinking object.

00:14:56.460 Thinking a meaning, meaningful object.

00:14:58.880 Or it could be an intuition, thinking, intuitive value that we could be sensing.

00:15:06.300 Not sensing, we could be experiencing.

00:15:08.320 So, these human experiences then have two components.

00:15:16.700 One is that which is being experienced.

00:15:19.140 And the other is that which experiences the experiencer.

00:15:24.180 That experiencer we call subject.

00:15:27.380 The object that we are experiencing we call object.

00:15:30.720 This subject-object's play is a, you know, closer than the jubilee vein.

00:15:36.480 Every human being has the experience of being a subject to an experience that unfolds before the subject.

00:15:44.340 Experiencer and experienced.

00:15:47.020 But materialist science says that everything is object.

00:15:51.400 If you think about it, it just takes one second to think that if you make bigger objects with littler objects,

00:15:58.900 like molecules making up neurons, neurons making up brain, brain making up consciousness,

00:16:04.140 you still have only objects.

00:16:07.260 Because objects can only make objects.

00:16:10.060 Objects can never make subject.

00:16:12.680 Objects can never give you the idea of experiencing the object which appears to be separate from the subject.

00:16:22.140 Where does that self-reference, the capacity of referring to ourselves as I,

00:16:27.160 where does it come from?

00:16:28.400 Some time ago, in 1980s, Doug Hofstetter, a computer scientist actually,

00:16:36.780 gave the idea that maybe, maybe the, the, this happens in the brain because brain has a tangled hierarchy within it.

00:16:50.460 Tangled hierarchy means that there is a, there is a circular causality.

00:16:56.320 The brain has a component which is circularly connected with another component.

00:17:02.080 When I looked at it, immediately it became clear to me that it's not hard to find two such components in,

00:17:08.480 in the brain because obviously we have perception, but can one have perception without memory?

00:17:15.200 And the answer is no.

00:17:16.520 And then we have memory, but can one have memory without perception?

00:17:20.300 Obviously not.

00:17:21.120 So that's a circularity.

00:17:23.340 Memory requires perception and perception requires memory.

00:17:26.940 This must be a tangled hierarchy.

00:17:29.780 Now, what's the difference between regular hierarchical brain?

00:17:34.460 The difference is fantastic.

00:17:36.920 Because in a regular hierarchical brain, you can tell from the basic micro components of the brain,

00:17:43.860 starting with the molecules, starting with the molecules, as you go higher up, molecules to cells to brain.

00:17:50.100 But if it is a tangled hierarchy, that pathway of molecules to cells to brain, in that pathway, there will be a discontinuity.

00:17:59.940 You cannot reduce the holistic brain in terms of its component.

00:18:05.000 This is a crucial point.

00:18:06.820 So you cannot reduce the quantum system of perception in the brain to its basic components.

00:18:13.800 And therein is the mystery of the brain.

00:18:16.120 So brain is quantum, but brain is quantum in such a way that it cannot be reduced.

00:18:23.020 Now, you know, there are philosophers who are called holists,

00:18:27.040 who have been talking about this idea starting from a South African politician,

00:18:31.460 that there are systems, holistic systems, they call it.

00:18:37.180 And these holistic systems cannot be broken up into, cannot be reduced into components that are smaller.

00:18:48.420 They call it whole.

00:18:49.760 Whole is greater than the parts.

00:18:52.180 So finally, we are getting an understanding of what holism is about.

00:18:56.700 Holism, brain is holistic because there is a tangled hierarchy in the brain.

00:19:00.640 And it is that tangled hierarchy, as Dag Hofstetter showed in his book, Godelashar Bach,

00:19:07.200 it is that tangled hierarchy that gives the brain the capacity to make a representation of consciousness,

00:19:14.940 the capacity of identification with consciousness.

00:19:18.080 Consciousness identifies with the brain so that it regards itself separate from the rest of the world.

00:19:24.240 So is this what you mean by quantum consciousness?

00:19:26.700 This is what we mean by quantum consciousness being manifest as the quantum self.

00:19:33.580 Quantum consciousness is the unmanifest consciousness.

00:19:36.640 When that manifests in a quantum event of collapse,

00:19:40.700 when consciousness chooses,

00:19:42.760 that unmanifest consciousness becomes split into a subject that identifies with the brain,

00:19:50.520 looking at an object that it looks at separately from itself.

00:19:54.980 So I call it the quantum self, looking at the world.

00:19:59.420 I see.

00:20:00.480 Now how ego arises?

00:20:01.900 Ego arises, the very personal self arises after conditioning.

00:20:07.040 So this quantum self is in the beginning, like in our childhood.

00:20:11.240 We are, of course, living in childhood enchantment.

00:20:14.700 The enchantment that I felt, you probably also felt,

00:20:19.280 and many people remember childhood enchanted world.

00:20:24.320 It's enchanted because this quantum self is universal.

00:20:28.140 Quantum self does not have the individuality or personality.

00:20:33.340 That comes later with conditioning.

00:20:35.760 Yeah.

00:20:36.000 What is your take on mythology in the unconscious collective mind?

00:20:41.100 Do you think we manifest mythological characters or deities,

00:20:45.060 or did they really exist in the flesh?

00:20:47.760 No, I think I'm convinced that we manifest these mythological characters,

00:20:53.060 deities,

00:20:54.020 and it is these mythological deities that represent the values.

00:20:58.140 So when we learn to live the values, you know, which we have to do creatively,

00:21:03.260 I call it inner creativity, creativity that transforms us.

00:21:08.080 Like, for example, the deity of love.

00:21:11.340 That is a deity on one hand.

00:21:14.780 In mythology, it's represented as a deity, as a mythological character,

00:21:23.380 many ways of looking at it.

00:21:24.940 So what do we have?

00:21:26.200 We have other mythological characters, like the hero.

00:21:29.820 Hero looks for love, and hero finds love,

00:21:36.460 and hero returns with the love manifested in his or her behavior.

00:21:43.940 So this kind of mythology is very telling about what the human journey is about,

00:21:49.840 what we are about.

00:21:50.880 We are not about just living our life in the service of the brain circuits,

00:21:57.580 as scientific materialists often pass it.

00:21:59.800 There are no values.

00:22:00.800 There is no meaning in the world.

00:22:02.620 We are not to live that way only.

00:22:06.800 Of course, it's okay to like pleasure.

00:22:10.180 I'm not saying it's not okay.

00:22:11.540 That's why religions went wrong. 1.00

00:22:13.040 Because religions completely were so against materiality that they went against our very nature. 1.00

00:22:22.880 Now, we need some of the pleasure orientation, some of the survival orientation,

00:22:28.280 some of the competitive orientation that we bring from our biological evolutionary history.

00:22:33.740 Yeah, people become strange when they don't have both of those going inside of themselves.

00:22:38.800 I'm glad you used the word strange.

00:22:42.700 Yes, people do strange.

00:22:44.880 And we cannot do it anyway.

00:22:46.800 We hide.

00:22:48.660 We cheat.

00:22:50.180 And that is, of course, what produces this cognitive dissonance between people who are told constantly

00:22:56.460 that, look, don't engage in pleasure. 0.98

00:22:58.700 And then the people who are telling don't engage in pleasure themselves are found to engage in pleasure quite a bit.

00:23:06.560 So, this strategy has not worked.

00:23:10.780 The present strategy is very simple.

00:23:12.900 Present strategy says that, yes, we have brain circuits.

00:23:15.840 We have brain circuits of pleasure.

00:23:17.500 We have brain circuits of negative emotion like competitiveness.

00:23:20.760 And we cannot help it.

00:23:23.320 We will succumb to the tyranny of these brain circuits every now and then.

00:23:29.980 No question about it.

00:23:31.440 But we also have the creative capacity of creating a future for ourselves.

00:23:37.580 So, this is why the new science is different.

00:23:39.700 Old science says you are what your past tells you you are.

00:23:43.940 New science says, yes, you are what your past tells you you are.

00:23:47.780 But you are also what your future tells you you are.

00:23:51.580 Because you can adapt the purposiveness of your life, which is to explore meaning, which is to explore values,

00:24:00.140 which is to make new brain circuits.

00:24:03.660 Neurophysiologists have found this wonderful, wonderful, the greatest neurophysical, physiological truth,

00:24:10.000 which is that neurons are very plastic.

00:24:14.840 Neuroplasticity.

00:24:15.560 Neurons can make new brain circuits of anything you learn.

00:24:20.600 There is no age barrier, nothing.

00:24:23.120 You know, that encourages me so much.

00:24:25.360 Because, you know, in the age-old traditions, people used to give up on creativity before they were 50.

00:24:34.760 And now people go on being creative when they are 80, they are 90.

00:24:39.760 There is no barrier because you have found this neurophysiological truth, that neuron.

00:24:44.880 They can make brain circuits at any age.

00:24:49.760 What are your thoughts on people like Terence McKenna and the use of hallucinogenic drugs to open up consciousness?

00:24:55.240 Well, McKenna goes a little bit too much in the direction of drug, I think. 1.00

00:25:05.420 It's a little bit dangerous, Pat.

00:25:07.620 I mean, it's okay for Terence because he has a great spirit, creative spirit.

00:25:13.480 So, he can handle it, in other words.

00:25:17.520 But for people who cannot handle it, what happens with drug, I think, is that the brain circuit that makes you conditioned to take drug,

00:25:29.420 that brain circuit becomes so powerful that you just cannot go out of it.

00:25:33.440 This is why an alcoholic wants one drink, you cannot stop.

00:25:39.660 Same thing with other drugs.

00:25:41.500 One little drug, you cannot stop.

00:25:44.100 You just go on and you have to imbibe and then you fall, fall, fall, fall, fall.

00:25:49.020 And then you have to go through the entire detoxification to come out of it.

00:25:53.680 And again, the same danger.

00:25:55.820 So, why do that?

00:25:57.420 When creativity is available as a method, safe method, of investigating these values and meanings,

00:26:07.380 we don't have to alter our brain in order to find that there are meanings in the world, there are values in the world.

00:26:16.140 The reason Terence suggested is that it's an easy introduction that the brain circuits of pleasure are not the only thing that we bring from the past.

00:26:25.660 There are other things that we suppress.

00:26:27.720 That's our regular life constraints make us suppress.

00:26:32.720 And so, un-infit us.

00:26:37.440 And then we find that, okay, there is more to life than the suppressions.

00:26:42.060 So, that's good to find out in a way.

00:26:44.640 But I think good to find out by creativity is better.

00:26:48.400 Because that is, if creativity is habit-forming, it's wonderful.

00:26:51.920 And that's the kind of habit you want.

00:26:54.280 Because the circuit that creativity makes, it's always a new circuit.

00:26:57.960 It's never roaming around the old circuits.

00:27:00.560 I would agree with that.

00:27:02.380 Do you think that it's possible that we have interdimensional beings that are coexisting separately alongside our own dimension?

00:27:10.500 Well, this one is a tricky question.

00:27:13.240 Of course, one of the things that happened with my own research is that as soon as it became clear to me that there are subtle aspects of ourselves.

00:27:24.500 We not only have a physical body, but we also have a vital energy body that we feel.

00:27:30.080 We have a mental body of meaning that we seek meaning with, creativity with.

00:27:36.020 And then we have the supramental archetypal values.

00:27:39.520 So, we have these bodies that's not just the physical.

00:27:45.380 We sense with the physical body, but then we feel with the vital body, we think with the mental body, we even intuit values with the supramental body.

00:27:55.380 If you take yourselves in this way, if you think of yourself in this way, many, many new ideas become possible.

00:28:03.220 One of the ideas that become possible is survival after death.

00:28:07.240 What survives? The subtle body, of course.

00:28:10.600 Specifically, the habit pattern of the subtle body.

00:28:13.860 The habit pattern of the mind, the habit pattern of the feeling body, that's what survives the death of a person.

00:28:21.460 So, we will connect over and over.

00:28:23.900 I wrote a book called Physics of the Soul, if anybody is interested.

00:28:27.740 So, that's one thing.

00:28:31.300 Now, it is also true, though, that as soon as you have introduced these higher bodies, so to speak,

00:28:38.460 immediately you have opened yourself to also the question that maybe there is also a subtle material body that higher beings can have.

00:28:47.700 So, this is a very risky concept because, you know, observation.

00:28:56.680 So, how would you observe or is there any data?

00:29:02.060 And here is where the question comes in about all the data about extraterrestrials that some people swear by it,

00:29:12.640 others swear by the opposite.

00:29:15.100 Very controversial.

00:29:16.220 So, I think that we should reserve our judgment for a while,

00:29:21.520 realizing that the new science really does have the capacity of introducing many, many, many new stuff

00:29:29.460 that was beyond the wealth of the old science.

00:29:32.540 You know, that comment by Hamlet to Horatio comes in mind.

00:29:36.560 There are many things in heaven and earth, Horatio, that is dreamt of in your scientific materialist philosophy.

00:29:42.120 That's right.

00:29:42.660 Introducing the materialist scientists.

00:29:46.220 I hear many people saying that we're now moving into a fourth dimensional consciousness, also known as the astral plane.

00:29:52.360 What are your thoughts on that?

00:29:53.300 I'm not sure if you've heard about that, but a lot of people say we're moving into the 4D right now.

00:29:57.420 Well, yeah, this is a sort of a faulty thinking is not necessary anymore because if objects are possibilities of consciousness to choose from,

00:30:08.380 which is the quantum way of thinking, then we can just introduce the concept of vital body.

00:30:13.300 Instead of astral body and all that, we can conceive four different bodies of possibilities.

00:30:23.940 Are there quantum possibilities that gives us the physical?

00:30:26.800 Yes, that's the sensory possibilities.

00:30:29.700 And then there are vital energy possibilities.

00:30:33.520 Those are the possibilities when you collapse them.

00:30:35.640 When you choose from them, when you choose from them, we get feeling.

00:30:38.580 That's what traditions, these traditions call astral or fourth dimension.

00:30:43.060 Not a very good way of thinking because dimensions are still connected.

00:30:46.860 If feelings were a dimension of the material universe, then there would be some way of transforming matter into feelings.

00:30:58.300 But we don't really.

00:31:00.960 There are very different experiences.

00:31:04.320 Matter and feeling are completely about two different things.

00:31:09.000 So in the view that I have, these are four parallel universes.

00:31:13.340 It's that we literally live in a multiverse, four parallel universes.

00:31:19.700 And if you include the ground of being, consciousness itself, then five universes.

00:31:25.120 And you may think of having a body in each of these universes.

00:31:30.020 It's a much better thinking than dimensional thinking because dimensional thinking has that problem.

00:31:36.800 In dimensional thinking, there must be a way of transforming one dimension into,

00:31:43.340 another, like space and time can be thought dimensionally.

00:31:47.700 Why?

00:31:47.960 Because in very high speed spaceship, time can be transformed into space.

00:31:54.340 That transformation, which is Einstein's theory of relativity, is what made fashionable to think of time as a fourth dimension of a four dimensional space time.

00:32:04.680 But similar thinking doesn't work in thinking about feelings and meanings and values and sensing.

00:32:13.580 They really are completely distinct worlds of experience.

00:32:18.580 That's a good way of looking at it.

00:32:20.080 Thanks for sharing that.

00:32:21.480 Do you think teleportation or time travel will ever be possible?

00:32:24.540 Well, this is a, this is a, this is again, teleportation, of course, is the large scale psychokinesis.

00:32:32.540 This is a very, very, very good question.

00:32:35.220 And again, the answer will have to be that we need data.

00:32:42.900 For small scale teleportation, we already have data.

00:32:46.580 There is no question that, you know, some people do make a living going to gambling casinos.

00:32:56.740 As you know, it's quite, quite common in London to make money in, in a casino.

00:33:04.380 And some people are able to do that because they have the capacity of influencing small objects like a dice.

00:33:13.360 For large scale, these ideas have not been very successful of whether telekinesis is possible or not using the quantum uncertainty of objects.

00:33:30.920 So we need more data.

00:33:33.040 If data is there, then we have to find explanations.

00:33:36.960 And explanations will then have to be given.

00:33:40.220 We have to think about it more.

00:33:41.660 We have to be creative about it.

00:33:44.420 But before the data comes, we should not jump the gun either.

00:33:48.340 Because these are difficult questions, difficult questions to handle.

00:33:53.580 Same thing for precognition, future prediction.

00:33:58.300 That is something that already has been demonstrated.

00:34:01.220 And that's demonstrated also in quantum physics.

00:34:03.980 So that's easy.

00:34:04.820 But to have large scale time travel is a completely different story because that violates the entropy law, violates physical laws.

00:34:15.080 Again, unless we have data, we should not try to break up our entire physical system of science.

00:34:27.000 The new science is still a science.

00:34:29.360 There will be scientific principles.

00:34:31.940 Entropy law is one of them that new science actually explains, whereas the old science cannot explain.

00:34:37.920 So you don't want to give up the scientific aspects of the world unless the data is so clearly exhibiting the fact that, yes, there is time travel.

00:34:48.560 We should not think that way.

00:34:50.780 It's easy to fantasize.

00:34:52.140 But, yes, it's problematic.

00:34:57.160 Right now, you know, if you say time travel, too much problem.

00:35:00.580 It violates some things.

00:35:02.140 Violates relativity theory for one thing.

00:35:04.540 You spoke of the influence of the dice.

00:35:06.680 Has that been proven or studied?

00:35:09.320 Yes.

00:35:09.900 Some people actually showed that by adjusting these little angles at which a dice falls,

00:35:19.140 but one can add up these little angles and make such a huge divergence that one can, through one's intuition, intention,

00:35:31.160 change the dice according to one's intention, change the roll of the dice according to the intention.

00:35:39.620 And the theory says, yes, it's possible.

00:35:43.760 And indeed, the data shows clearly that all these people are going to, in America, Las Vegas, in England, to London, and Monte Carlo, and making a living.

00:35:53.760 So you cannot disclaim what is.

00:35:57.340 I mean, these people really are consistently winning.

00:35:59.740 What about artificial intelligence and consciousness?

00:36:04.700 Do you think we'll ever have conscious machines?

00:36:08.400 I'm glad you asked this question.

00:36:10.620 You know, when we had two very, very good laws in the initial days of physics, those laws are called the laws of energy.

00:36:20.340 One law was that energy of the world is a constant.

00:36:24.760 And the second law of thermodynamics, another law, which is, again, similar, a little bit complex.

00:36:34.240 Energy goes from orderly energy to disorderly energy.

00:36:38.080 So this kind of thing, the first statement of these laws were given in a very different form.

00:36:45.460 The form was that you can never build a machine that violates the energy conservation law.

00:36:53.120 That energy of the physical universe is always a constant.

00:36:57.540 You can never build a machine that will create energy or destroy energy.

00:37:02.760 So that's a very good statement.

00:37:04.760 Today, I have similarly challenged the scientific materialists in this way.

00:37:09.820 You can never build a creative, conscious computer.

00:37:15.780 All consciousness that you ascribe to a computer will be the reflection of the programmer.

00:37:23.000 No more.

00:37:25.060 Computer will never be more creative than the creativity of the programmer that has built the computer.

00:37:33.380 So can computers have consciousness, strictly speaking?

00:37:36.300 No.

00:37:36.840 Of course, a computer can be built, which can fool some of us into thinking that, yes, this computer has consciousness.

00:37:44.220 But the programmer would always know, right, that it really is a trick of some of the programs that this computer would find it impossible to analyze.

00:37:58.240 They are so-called unconscious, so we can put in a lot of unconscious circuits for the computer to make it appear that his behavior is quite strange to himself.

00:38:10.420 And in that way, make it appear.

00:38:13.500 But make no mistake about it.

00:38:15.820 Computer can only process things at one level, not two levels like we can, possibility and actuality.

00:38:22.660 Only human beings, only conscious beings have that capacity.

00:38:26.160 I would agree with that.

00:38:28.840 But if a man morphs into half machine, what do you think that would do to his consciousness?

00:38:33.640 Well, I think that that is a pretty good idea.

00:38:37.720 I think that that is a pretty good idea, but you have to be very careful because we are developing gradually this, you know, this idea of cyborg.

00:38:45.000 I mean, that was, I hope you are still American enough to read Newsweek magazine occasionally.

00:38:51.720 Yep.

00:38:51.860 And Newsweek magazine had a very good story about addiction to computers.

00:38:59.140 This story is a must read for everyone who thinks of cyborgs because it is sort of a cyborg-like creature that we become when we are addicted to this computing, addicted to cell phones, addicted to that analytical way of getting every answer.

00:39:16.260 So, what happens, what happens, what happens is that we are literally, we are becoming, we are identifying with brain circuits.

00:39:27.340 We have, we are doing more than that.

00:39:29.740 We are extending our brain circuits to include the computer.

00:39:36.040 That's the whole idea of cyborg.

00:39:37.540 So, as you engage more and more computing type of thing, your tendency would be to become this completely rational world where everything is computation because that's the only world that you engage with anymore.

00:39:56.800 You never engage with creativity.

00:39:58.620 So, by not engaging with creativity, you become a machine.

00:40:02.600 And the addiction that these people are feeling, as difficult to bring out, bring people out of this addiction as it is to bring people out from drug addiction, alcohol addiction, smoke addiction.

00:40:17.120 That's what the findings are saying, telling us, and very dangerous.

00:40:21.380 So, should not allow unbalanced, unbalanced engagement with machines.

00:40:31.000 We should balance it.

00:40:33.360 For example, brain circuits are okay, but if you handle only one brain circuit, it's very dangerous, addiction.

00:40:39.640 But if the brain circuits are engaged with some balance between different brain circuits, and especially new brain circuits are constantly made with creativity,

00:40:50.680 then, of course, there is no danger in partaking pleasure circuits or partaking even addictive substances every now and then.

00:40:59.240 But yet today, look at all the young kids, they're addicted to their phones and their iPhones, and it's just out of control.

00:41:07.760 So, even when they're out with their friends, they're texting someone else.

00:41:11.560 It goes out of control because these circuits are very addictive because it doesn't allow you to go out of that circuit and engage with another circuit.

00:41:21.880 That's the problem.

00:41:22.520 Are you familiar with Michael Talbot's holographic universe theory?

00:41:28.000 Yeah.

00:41:28.620 He was one of the beginners of the ideas of consciousness as the ground of being.

00:41:35.340 And at that point, because he was not using quantum physics, he did not have the idea of choice and identification of consciousness with the brain,

00:41:47.500 these kind of ideas that we talked about in this hour.

00:41:49.900 So, he did this first thing.

00:41:53.220 How do we have access to a non-local consciousness?

00:42:00.560 Because we are a holograph.

00:42:02.080 This non-local consciousness is holographic.

00:42:04.760 That's the idea that he gave us.

00:42:06.900 Holographic meaning that one little portion will still contain some of the potency of the entire holograph.

00:42:17.140 That is the idea.

00:42:18.420 But, of course, in the new view, we get it from non-locality and the local individuality of conditioning.

00:42:25.840 We get it through that.

00:42:27.000 We get it through.

00:42:28.260 We have the non-local consciousness and we also have the individual consciousness.

00:42:33.780 Their interaction will give us everything that we need to know from the holographic consciousness.

00:42:41.260 So, in that sense, we are part of a holograph.

00:42:44.500 But it's not in the literal sense.

00:42:46.780 In the literal sense, the holographic model is just not versatile enough because holographic is still an object.

00:42:52.480 If consciousness is an object, it could never give you, it could never explain subjective experiences.

00:42:58.860 This idea of looking at the world separate from ourselves.

00:43:02.460 Is materialism the main obstacle to solving the world's problems?

00:43:08.300 Right now, materialism.

00:43:13.020 But on the other hand, 400 years ago, spirituality, religion was the huge obstacle.

00:43:20.500 Yeah.

00:43:20.700 So, we have been going from one obstacle to another.

00:43:26.080 What we have to do is to recognize that these obstacles become obstacles because they're dogmatic.

00:43:32.540 They exclude some of our experiences.

00:43:35.340 The spiritual traditions, religious traditions excluded the materiality of our needs, material needs, specifically sexuality.

00:43:45.080 And people just cannot live that way.

00:43:48.560 People just cannot live giving up sex.

00:43:50.660 Only a few people can.

00:43:51.620 And so, these religious traditions were bound to fail.

00:43:56.480 But then, we went the pendulum swan too much the other way.

00:44:01.420 Now, spirituality is excluded.

00:44:03.380 Values are completely excluded.

00:44:05.000 Meaning is excluded.

00:44:06.440 This cannot last either.

00:44:08.900 What we need is something like what we're discussing in this hour.

00:44:12.280 However, in this view that consciousness is the ground of being with all the experiences acknowledged, sensing, feeling, thinking, and intuition,

00:44:22.440 we can include all the human experiences and any future one that will come our way that we have not discovered as of yet.

00:44:31.520 We don't know.

00:44:33.060 Everything can be included in this new science.

00:44:35.660 That's the beauty of it.

00:44:36.820 It's an inclusive science.

00:44:38.180 And therefore, there is no dogma in it.

00:44:41.040 So, it's that we really take dogma out of the worldview that we follow.

00:44:47.460 And we have never done that in the human history.

00:44:49.900 It's always one dogma or another.

00:44:51.900 It's either religious dogma or the scientific dogma.

00:44:56.140 But there is an opportunity now to really wake up and recognize that we can live in a dogma-free way.

00:45:04.520 And if we do, our potential, the way that we can manifest human potential becomes just so vast that my hope is that we'll live in a completely different way than we do today.

00:45:19.880 All these problems that seem unsurmountable, problem of economy, problem of democracy, problems of terrorism, problems of global climate change, problems of healthcare, problems of education, all these problems will find solutions from the new view.

00:45:35.800 I would agree with you.

00:45:36.800 I would agree with you.

00:45:37.920 And I'm hoping for it.

00:45:39.460 I'm putting out the intention.

00:45:41.300 Many believe there's an elite ruling class running the world.

00:45:44.280 Do you think we're currently participating in their manifested reality?

00:45:47.340 Well, you know, this is the idea of Illuminati, sort of, that some people proposed in the beginning of the New Age era.

00:45:58.580 I don't think there is any necessity to believe that there are people who are, you know, guiding us, handling us.

00:46:08.480 That's, you know, it becomes a little, that movie that was recently made, Tom Hanks playing a big role.

00:46:19.320 Angels and Demons.

00:46:21.020 Right.

00:46:21.660 That's it.

00:46:22.320 Angels and Demons are similar things.

00:46:25.660 No, it does not have to be that way at all.

00:46:29.540 So, it's a complete mistake to think that we go from the scientific materialists who are now the movers and shakers and the business people who are in coutts with them and the military people who are in coutts with them, the military, industrial, scientific complex.

00:46:47.660 You know, that's the Illuminati that we see.

00:46:50.540 And then we get rid of it to get into the hands of another Illuminati. 0.98

00:46:54.040 That just is ridiculous.

00:46:55.120 So, no, human beings do not need Illuminati. 0.87

00:46:59.560 Human beings can be guided by their own creativity.

00:47:04.760 Quantum physics tells us what the creative process is.

00:47:08.080 Once we understand the creative process, every human being, potentially, with some practice, has the capacity of being creative.

00:47:17.980 And then we're in control of our own lives once we access that creativity and create for ourselves, right?

00:47:22.760 We create ourselves, we continue to renew ourselves.

00:47:27.140 We don't need to listen to neither this military, industrial, scientific complex nor the religious, spiritual Illuminati gurus.

00:47:35.720 We don't need, we don't need any of it.

00:47:37.940 Of course, people are welcome to make suggestions.

00:47:41.940 But, you know, that fundamental individualism, which has been the basic modern idea, we must not give that up.

00:47:50.860 Because for creative investigation, we find that that individuality communicates with the cosmic.

00:47:57.200 And so, both individual and the cosmic, when they match together, when they investigate creativity together, then, then we have the flow experience, then we have manifestation of this big, big, big, big ideas like love, beauty, justice, truth, goodness, all that stuff that makes us, makes our life worth living in them.

00:48:19.920 And so, it is very important for us not to fall for the Illuminati of any kind.

00:48:28.080 What about the idea of, and it's a New Age idea, and it kind of scares me sometimes, that we're all one and we're all connected.

00:48:34.860 So, is that, according to physics, how would you answer that?

00:48:37.540 Well, that's the non-locality.

00:48:40.440 We are all one, but we have to, we have to first connect to the non-local consciousness.

00:48:45.080 If we don't connect, we have, largely, what is our problem today?

00:48:49.160 Under scientific materialism, we believe that we are not connected, we are separate, and therefore, we have become separate.

00:48:57.440 It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

00:48:59.000 Now, if we make another self-fulfilling prophecy, that the connection is the, all there is, and that's the only important thing, then we are just going back to these religious traditions, their worldview.

00:49:11.900 But that worldview also is, of course, a dogma.

00:49:15.920 No, both individuality and collective, that is important.

00:49:20.760 So, you know, individuality within the collective, individuality plus the collective.

00:49:29.480 If we could, if we could understand that creativity is a gift when we retain our individual mastery of whatever we have learned to our life's experience.

00:49:38.980 And remember that your learning is as important as my learning, because everyone brings individuality to this cosmic consciousness in the process of creativity.

00:49:49.900 And therefore, your creative expression of ideas like love, beauty, justice will be different than my creative expression.

00:49:57.300 Very important.

00:49:58.320 So everyone can contribute creativity to the evolving scenario of humanity.

00:50:06.720 Of course, there are subtle points here.

00:50:09.520 We're sort of running out of time, but maybe 10 minutes is enough to make an additional point.

00:50:15.540 So, sometimes people tell me that, okay, but creativity is hard for many people.

00:50:21.900 And probably this is true.

00:50:23.600 Probably creativity is difficult for many people because they cannot even focus.

00:50:30.440 Or they cannot focus.

00:50:32.400 And creativity requires both focused thinking and relaxed thinking.

00:50:36.680 So how do you get boxed?

00:50:37.860 That's the do, be, do, be, do, that slogan.

00:50:41.420 That's what I'm saying.

00:50:42.560 Do is focused doing.

00:50:44.700 And be is relaxed being.

00:50:49.680 So, okay.

00:50:52.660 It is a little bit, it is a little bit tricky.

00:50:56.040 It is a little bit tricky to do it.

00:50:59.320 And it is a little bit tricky to expect that everybody can be creative.

00:51:10.140 Yeah, there's a lot of people that don't even know what they're passionate about or what they desire or what they really want for themselves.

00:51:16.160 And I would say to those people, quiet down and start seeking.

00:51:19.620 Start looking inside yourself and find out.

00:51:21.840 Yeah, so we accept that fact that there is some, perhaps we have to start with a smaller number.

00:51:31.520 And they become creative and then we get into bigger numbers.

00:51:38.760 How that smaller number to bigger number happens gets into the work of our children, a biologist, a British biologist, actually.

00:51:47.400 If we're consciousness, why do we need a body?

00:51:49.600 Yeah, this is a very, very good question.

00:51:54.240 Remember the tangled hierarchy?

00:51:56.100 Yes.

00:51:56.240 Remember that we need a holistic brain to bring about a tangled hierarchical self, manifest self for consciousness.

00:52:05.520 That's the crucial thing.

00:52:07.020 So, tangled hierarchy can be built only when matter is the way.

00:52:11.980 Matter is very special, very unlike our subtle bodies.

00:52:17.380 Matter is microbe makes up macro. 0.52

00:52:21.460 Matter has that characteristic of microbe making up macro.

00:52:25.980 Small things make up big things.

00:52:28.480 Except for these tangled hierarchical circuits that we find in the living domain of ourselves.

00:52:37.080 Except for that, everything that is inanimate matter can be reduced to molecules, to atoms, to elementary particles.

00:52:46.660 Okay?

00:52:47.660 I see.

00:52:48.300 And the characteristic of reduction is needed because it is in the path from micro to macro that we are making the tango.

00:52:56.800 We are making that discontinuity that gave us self-preference.

00:53:00.100 So, self-preference requires a material level of reality.

00:53:05.660 This is very important to recognize.

00:53:08.100 We could not have a self-preferential, we could not have a self-preferential quantum measurement or quantum choice if consciousness did not have the benefit of matter the way it is, micro making a macro.

00:53:24.140 It could not do it with subtle bodies.

00:53:27.080 It could not do it with the mind, which is an infinite, there is no micro division in the mind.

00:53:33.640 If you look at your feelings, can big feelings be reduced to small feelings?

00:53:38.960 No, no, no.

00:53:40.380 It's all feelings are its own unit.

00:53:44.860 It cannot be reduced.

00:53:46.360 And same thing, of course, for intuitions.

00:53:49.580 So, these domains are infinite domains, unbreakable domains, where macro cannot be broken up into micro.

00:53:58.960 Material domain is the only one where a tangled hierarchical circuit can be built and therefore consciousness can be represented.

00:54:05.740 Very important question.

00:54:07.440 One last question for you, and then we need to talk about your conference, because you're going to be speaking in London.

00:54:12.900 But I have one question that's kind of been on my mind.

00:54:15.500 A lot of people talk about, oh, we all come from the same source.

00:54:18.780 Could there be multiple sources of origin that we come from?

00:54:25.480 I think this origin question is important, certainly.

00:54:29.720 But, you know, if you look at the origin of life, it is such a creative production.

00:54:43.120 You know, I write a chapter of that origin of life in the book, Creative Evolution.

00:54:49.020 And many other scientists have worried about this problem of origin of life.

00:54:56.100 It is such an act of huge, huge creativity.

00:54:59.720 That it will be very hard-pressed to think that there could be multiple creation of life.

00:55:06.500 Much, much simpler to think that, okay, it happened only once and for all, that one time, you know.

00:55:13.380 Does that mean that other planets could not bring it apart?

00:55:16.460 I think that we don't have to go that far.

00:55:19.400 My personal belief that on the Earth, it probably came about just this one time, not multiple sources.

00:55:25.860 But there could be other planets, equally livable planets, in which also the life could have originated, because consciousness is equally creative in this other planet.

00:55:37.480 And so that's to the extent that I would go.

00:55:41.520 All right, everybody, the Conference for Consciousness and Human Evolution, it's going to be a great one, August 25, 26, and 27 in London.

00:55:51.000 You can hear more from Amit Goswami.

00:55:53.560 Amit, thank you so much for being here with me today.

00:55:55.800 And I want to thank you for all the wonderful work you're doing.

00:55:58.100 You're a fun and kind soul.

00:55:59.500 Thank you.

00:56:02.560 And we'll talk again soon.

00:56:04.960 To all you out there, remember, we're consciousness.

00:56:07.920 We're not helpless victims in a flesh bag.

00:56:10.000 So start creating.

00:56:11.380 Participate.

00:56:12.140 Let's turn this thing around and get back on course.

00:56:14.540 We don't have to sit around and watch someone else's nightmare come true.

00:56:17.820 Dream your dream and don't ask for permission.

00:56:20.120 Talk to you later.

00:56:20.720 It takes a leap of faith

00:56:27.400 Outside our consciousness

00:56:30.320 There is a universal truth

00:56:34.820 A plan for us

00:56:37.300 Shift our thinking

00:56:39.880 Lose our fear and doubt

00:56:42.840 Tune into the new sound

00:56:45.900 Into the new flow

00:56:48.220 Get off

00:56:49.660 Off the grid evolve

00:56:52.260 Starting in your mind

00:56:54.900 Taking you beyond

00:56:57.540 Physics of the head

00:57:00.020 Deprogram

00:57:01.420 Deprogram

00:57:02.700 Deprogram

00:57:04.020 Deprogram

00:57:05.360 Deprogram

00:57:06.700 Deprogram

00:57:07.940 Deprogram

00:57:09.260 It's not about material possessions

00:57:11.600 It's not about race

00:57:14.860 Or creed

00:57:16.700 Or color

00:57:18.340 It's about the universal brotherhood

00:57:22.500 Taking it to the next level

00:57:25.820 Together

00:57:27.300 Let's take it to the next level

00:57:31.020 Together

00:57:32.140 Together

00:57:32.980 Get off

00:57:36.680 Off the grid evolve

00:57:39.240 Stogging in your mind

00:57:41.860 Taking you beyond

00:57:44.500 Physics of the head

00:57:47.040 Deprogram

00:57:48.360 Deprogram

00:57:49.720 Deprogram

00:57:51.040 Deprogram

00:57:52.320 Deprogram

00:57:53.640 Deprogram

00:57:54.940 Deprogram

00:57:56.200 Deprogram

00:57:56.900 Deprogram

00:58:02.240 Deprogram

00:58:03.900 Deprogram

00:58:04.720 Deprogram

00:58:05.600 Deprogram

00:58:06.520 Deprogram

00:58:07.100 Deprogram

00:58:07.680 Deprogram

00:58:08.660 Deprogram

00:58:09.020 Deprogram

00:58:09.480 Deprogram

00:58:09.840 Deprogram

00:58:10.800 Deprogram

00:58:11.440 Deprogram

00:58:11.940 Deprogram

00:58:13.280 Deprogram

00:58:13.680 Deprogram

00:58:14.120 Deprogram

00:58:14.440 Deprogram

00:58:15.500 Deprogram

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00:58:17.280 Deprogram

00:58:17.940 Deprogram

00:58:20.900 Deprogram

00:58:22.080 Deprogram

00:58:22.560 Deprogram

00:58:23.260 Deprogram

00:58:23.960 Deprogram

00:58:24.320 Not by intellect

00:58:27.200 But by your unconscious self

00:58:30.160 Wake up from my control

00:58:33.200 A false sense of security

00:58:36.820 From what you're told is important

00:58:40.620 Because it's not

00:58:44.800 Get off

00:58:45.780 Lost and ready for

00:58:48.340 Started in your mind

00:58:50.980 Taking you beyond

00:58:53.620 Physics of the head

00:58:56.180 Deprogram

00:58:57.480 Deprogram

00:58:58.880 Deprogram

00:59:00.160 Deprogram

00:59:01.420 Deprogram

00:59:02.820 Deprogram

00:59:04.020 Deprogram

00:59:05.340 Let's take a deep breath

00:59:17.120 Together

00:59:18.820 Together

00:59:19.700 Let's take it to the next level

00:59:25.280 Together

00:59:26.240 Together

00:59:27.240 Together

00:59:27.960 Let's take it to the next level

00:59:33.080 Together

00:59:34.260 Together

00:59:35.200 Together

00:59:36.140 Together

00:59:36.580 Together

00:59:37.640 Together

00:59:38.400 Facel

00:59:40.000 Air

00:59:40.860 Us

00:59:42.320 Feat

00:59:43.420 Air

00:59:45.420 Air

00:59:46.060 Air

00:59:46.920 Air

00:59:47.420 Air

00:59:48.360 Air

00:59:48.460 Air

00:59:49.600 Air

00:59:49.760 Air

00:59:50.800 Air

00:59:51.280 Air

00:59:52.260 Air

00:59:52.880 Air

00:59:53.400 Air

00:59:53.560 Air

00:59:53.660 Air

00:59:53.760 Air

00:59:54.720 Air

00:59:55.020 Air

00:59:55.700 Air

00:59:55.960 Air

00:59:56.400 Air

00:59:57.400 Air

00:59:58.760 Air

00:59:59.000 Air

00:59:59.880 Air

01:00:00.700 Air

01:00:01.600 Air

01:00:02.400 Air

01:00:04.540 Air

01:00:05.460 Air

01:00:05.660 Thank you.

Radio 3Fourteen - August 08, 2012

The Self Aware Universe

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