Amit Goswami is a retired theoretical physics professor, a senior resident researcher at the world-renowned Institute of Noetic Sciences, and a pioneer of the new paradigm of science called Science Within Consciousness. He is the author of the textbook Quantum Mechanics, used in universities throughout the world, and has also written many books based on his research on quantum physics and consciousness. He appeared in the film What the Bleep Do We Know? The Dalai Lama Renaissance, and the award-winning documentary The Quantum Activist.
00:11:17.300Dualism is not needed anymore, because we posit that everything is made of consciousness.
00:11:22.520If everything is made of consciousness, then consciousness chooses from itself, without needing any signal.
00:11:32.080And direct verification of this idea is, is there signal-less communication between conscious beings?
00:11:38.680And this is where, starting with Harko Bo Greenberg, a neurophysiologist at the University of Mexico in 1993-94,
00:11:46.980there is now enormous data where two people meditate together with the intention that they will have signal-less communication with each other,
00:11:55.260without any signals, direct communication.
00:11:58.500And it's proven by looking at the EEG recordings from one brain which sees light flash,
00:12:08.180but how that electrical activity from that brain gets into the other brain, which does not see light flash,
00:12:15.860is a total mystery, if you think, with scientific materialism.
00:12:19.360It sounds like telepathic communication.
00:25:57.420When creativity is available as a method, safe method, of investigating these values and meanings,
00:26:07.380we don't have to alter our brain in order to find that there are meanings in the world, there are values in the world.
00:26:16.140The reason Terence suggested is that it's an easy introduction that the brain circuits of pleasure are not the only thing that we bring from the past.
00:26:25.660There are other things that we suppress.
00:26:27.720That's our regular life constraints make us suppress.
00:27:13.240Of course, one of the things that happened with my own research is that as soon as it became clear to me that there are subtle aspects of ourselves.
00:27:24.500We not only have a physical body, but we also have a vital energy body that we feel.
00:27:30.080We have a mental body of meaning that we seek meaning with, creativity with.
00:27:36.020And then we have the supramental archetypal values.
00:27:39.520So, we have these bodies that's not just the physical.
00:27:45.380We sense with the physical body, but then we feel with the vital body, we think with the mental body, we even intuit values with the supramental body.
00:27:55.380If you take yourselves in this way, if you think of yourself in this way, many, many new ideas become possible.
00:28:03.220One of the ideas that become possible is survival after death.
00:28:07.240What survives? The subtle body, of course.
00:28:10.600Specifically, the habit pattern of the subtle body.
00:28:13.860The habit pattern of the mind, the habit pattern of the feeling body, that's what survives the death of a person.
00:29:53.300I'm not sure if you've heard about that, but a lot of people say we're moving into the 4D right now.
00:29:57.420Well, yeah, this is a sort of a faulty thinking is not necessary anymore because if objects are possibilities of consciousness to choose from,
00:30:08.380which is the quantum way of thinking, then we can just introduce the concept of vital body.
00:30:13.300Instead of astral body and all that, we can conceive four different bodies of possibilities.
00:30:23.940Are there quantum possibilities that gives us the physical?
00:30:26.800Yes, that's the sensory possibilities.
00:30:29.700And then there are vital energy possibilities.
00:30:33.520Those are the possibilities when you collapse them.
00:30:35.640When you choose from them, when you choose from them, we get feeling.
00:30:38.580That's what traditions, these traditions call astral or fourth dimension.
00:30:43.060Not a very good way of thinking because dimensions are still connected.
00:30:46.860If feelings were a dimension of the material universe, then there would be some way of transforming matter into feelings.
00:31:47.960Because in very high speed spaceship, time can be transformed into space.
00:31:54.340That transformation, which is Einstein's theory of relativity, is what made fashionable to think of time as a fourth dimension of a four dimensional space time.
00:32:04.680But similar thinking doesn't work in thinking about feelings and meanings and values and sensing.
00:32:13.580They really are completely distinct worlds of experience.
00:32:21.480Do you think teleportation or time travel will ever be possible?
00:32:24.540Well, this is a, this is a, this is again, teleportation, of course, is the large scale psychokinesis.
00:32:32.540This is a very, very, very good question.
00:32:35.220And again, the answer will have to be that we need data.
00:32:42.900For small scale teleportation, we already have data.
00:32:46.580There is no question that, you know, some people do make a living going to gambling casinos.
00:32:56.740As you know, it's quite, quite common in London to make money in, in a casino.
00:33:04.380And some people are able to do that because they have the capacity of influencing small objects like a dice.
00:33:13.360For large scale, these ideas have not been very successful of whether telekinesis is possible or not using the quantum uncertainty of objects.
00:34:31.940Entropy law is one of them that new science actually explains, whereas the old science cannot explain.
00:34:37.920So you don't want to give up the scientific aspects of the world unless the data is so clearly exhibiting the fact that, yes, there is time travel.
00:35:09.900Some people actually showed that by adjusting these little angles at which a dice falls,
00:35:19.140but one can add up these little angles and make such a huge divergence that one can, through one's intuition, intention,
00:35:31.160change the dice according to one's intention, change the roll of the dice according to the intention.
00:35:39.620And the theory says, yes, it's possible.
00:35:43.760And indeed, the data shows clearly that all these people are going to, in America, Las Vegas, in England, to London, and Monte Carlo, and making a living.
00:37:36.840Of course, a computer can be built, which can fool some of us into thinking that, yes, this computer has consciousness.
00:37:44.220But the programmer would always know, right, that it really is a trick of some of the programs that this computer would find it impossible to analyze.
00:37:58.240They are so-called unconscious, so we can put in a lot of unconscious circuits for the computer to make it appear that his behavior is quite strange to himself.
00:38:28.840But if a man morphs into half machine, what do you think that would do to his consciousness?
00:38:33.640Well, I think that that is a pretty good idea.
00:38:37.720I think that that is a pretty good idea, but you have to be very careful because we are developing gradually this, you know, this idea of cyborg.
00:38:45.000I mean, that was, I hope you are still American enough to read Newsweek magazine occasionally.
00:38:51.860And Newsweek magazine had a very good story about addiction to computers.
00:38:59.140This story is a must read for everyone who thinks of cyborgs because it is sort of a cyborg-like creature that we become when we are addicted to this computing, addicted to cell phones, addicted to that analytical way of getting every answer.
00:39:16.260So, what happens, what happens, what happens is that we are literally, we are becoming, we are identifying with brain circuits.
00:39:37.540So, as you engage more and more computing type of thing, your tendency would be to become this completely rational world where everything is computation because that's the only world that you engage with anymore.
00:39:58.620So, by not engaging with creativity, you become a machine.
00:40:02.600And the addiction that these people are feeling, as difficult to bring out, bring people out of this addiction as it is to bring people out from drug addiction, alcohol addiction, smoke addiction.
00:40:17.120That's what the findings are saying, telling us, and very dangerous.
00:40:21.380So, should not allow unbalanced, unbalanced engagement with machines.
00:40:33.360For example, brain circuits are okay, but if you handle only one brain circuit, it's very dangerous, addiction.
00:40:39.640But if the brain circuits are engaged with some balance between different brain circuits, and especially new brain circuits are constantly made with creativity,
00:40:50.680then, of course, there is no danger in partaking pleasure circuits or partaking even addictive substances every now and then.
00:40:59.240But yet today, look at all the young kids, they're addicted to their phones and their iPhones, and it's just out of control.
00:41:07.760So, even when they're out with their friends, they're texting someone else.
00:41:11.560It goes out of control because these circuits are very addictive because it doesn't allow you to go out of that circuit and engage with another circuit.
00:41:28.620He was one of the beginners of the ideas of consciousness as the ground of being.
00:41:35.340And at that point, because he was not using quantum physics, he did not have the idea of choice and identification of consciousness with the brain,
00:41:47.500these kind of ideas that we talked about in this hour.
00:44:08.900What we need is something like what we're discussing in this hour.
00:44:12.280However, in this view that consciousness is the ground of being with all the experiences acknowledged, sensing, feeling, thinking, and intuition,
00:44:22.440we can include all the human experiences and any future one that will come our way that we have not discovered as of yet.
00:44:51.900It's either religious dogma or the scientific dogma.
00:44:56.140But there is an opportunity now to really wake up and recognize that we can live in a dogma-free way.
00:45:04.520And if we do, our potential, the way that we can manifest human potential becomes just so vast that my hope is that we'll live in a completely different way than we do today.
00:45:19.880All these problems that seem unsurmountable, problem of economy, problem of democracy, problems of terrorism, problems of global climate change, problems of healthcare, problems of education, all these problems will find solutions from the new view.
00:46:25.660No, it does not have to be that way at all.
00:46:29.540So, it's a complete mistake to think that we go from the scientific materialists who are now the movers and shakers and the business people who are in coutts with them and the military people who are in coutts with them, the military, industrial, scientific complex.
00:46:47.660You know, that's the Illuminati that we see.
00:46:50.540And then we get rid of it to get into the hands of another Illuminati.
00:46:55.120So, no, human beings do not need Illuminati.
00:46:59.560Human beings can be guided by their own creativity.
00:47:04.760Quantum physics tells us what the creative process is.
00:47:08.080Once we understand the creative process, every human being, potentially, with some practice, has the capacity of being creative.
00:47:17.980And then we're in control of our own lives once we access that creativity and create for ourselves, right?
00:47:22.760We create ourselves, we continue to renew ourselves.
00:47:27.140We don't need to listen to neither this military, industrial, scientific complex nor the religious, spiritual Illuminati gurus.
00:47:35.720We don't need, we don't need any of it.
00:47:37.940Of course, people are welcome to make suggestions.
00:47:41.940But, you know, that fundamental individualism, which has been the basic modern idea, we must not give that up.
00:47:50.860Because for creative investigation, we find that that individuality communicates with the cosmic.
00:47:57.200And so, both individual and the cosmic, when they match together, when they investigate creativity together, then, then we have the flow experience, then we have manifestation of this big, big, big, big ideas like love, beauty, justice, truth, goodness, all that stuff that makes us, makes our life worth living in them.
00:48:19.920And so, it is very important for us not to fall for the Illuminati of any kind.
00:48:28.080What about the idea of, and it's a New Age idea, and it kind of scares me sometimes, that we're all one and we're all connected.
00:48:34.860So, is that, according to physics, how would you answer that?
00:48:59.000Now, if we make another self-fulfilling prophecy, that the connection is the, all there is, and that's the only important thing, then we are just going back to these religious traditions, their worldview.
00:49:11.900But that worldview also is, of course, a dogma.
00:49:15.920No, both individuality and collective, that is important.
00:49:20.760So, you know, individuality within the collective, individuality plus the collective.
00:49:29.480If we could, if we could understand that creativity is a gift when we retain our individual mastery of whatever we have learned to our life's experience.
00:49:38.980And remember that your learning is as important as my learning, because everyone brings individuality to this cosmic consciousness in the process of creativity.
00:49:49.900And therefore, your creative expression of ideas like love, beauty, justice will be different than my creative expression.
00:50:59.320And it is a little bit tricky to expect that everybody can be creative.
00:51:10.140Yeah, there's a lot of people that don't even know what they're passionate about or what they desire or what they really want for themselves.
00:51:16.160And I would say to those people, quiet down and start seeking.
00:51:19.620Start looking inside yourself and find out.
00:51:21.840Yeah, so we accept that fact that there is some, perhaps we have to start with a smaller number.
00:51:31.520And they become creative and then we get into bigger numbers.
00:51:38.760How that smaller number to bigger number happens gets into the work of our children, a biologist, a British biologist, actually.
00:51:47.400If we're consciousness, why do we need a body?
00:51:49.600Yeah, this is a very, very good question.
00:53:08.100We could not have a self-preferential, we could not have a self-preferential quantum measurement or quantum choice if consciousness did not have the benefit of matter the way it is, micro making a macro.
00:53:24.140It could not do it with subtle bodies.
00:53:27.080It could not do it with the mind, which is an infinite, there is no micro division in the mind.
00:53:33.640If you look at your feelings, can big feelings be reduced to small feelings?
00:54:07.440One last question for you, and then we need to talk about your conference, because you're going to be speaking in London.
00:54:12.900But I have one question that's kind of been on my mind.
00:54:15.500A lot of people talk about, oh, we all come from the same source.
00:54:18.780Could there be multiple sources of origin that we come from?
00:54:25.480I think this origin question is important, certainly.
00:54:29.720But, you know, if you look at the origin of life, it is such a creative production.
00:54:43.120You know, I write a chapter of that origin of life in the book, Creative Evolution.
00:54:49.020And many other scientists have worried about this problem of origin of life.
00:54:56.100It is such an act of huge, huge creativity.
00:54:59.720That it will be very hard-pressed to think that there could be multiple creation of life.
00:55:06.500Much, much simpler to think that, okay, it happened only once and for all, that one time, you know.
00:55:13.380Does that mean that other planets could not bring it apart?
00:55:16.460I think that we don't have to go that far.
00:55:19.400My personal belief that on the Earth, it probably came about just this one time, not multiple sources.
00:55:25.860But there could be other planets, equally livable planets, in which also the life could have originated, because consciousness is equally creative in this other planet.
00:55:37.480And so that's to the extent that I would go.
00:55:41.520All right, everybody, the Conference for Consciousness and Human Evolution, it's going to be a great one, August 25, 26, and 27 in London.