The Truth About South Africa_s Rainbow Nation
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 1 minute
Words per minute
161.86043
Harmful content
Misogyny
12
sentences flagged
Toxicity
30
sentences flagged
Hate speech
65
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Summary
In this episode, my guest, Claire, talks about life in South Africa post-apartheid. She talks about her life growing up in the apartheid era, and how it was like growing up as a black person in the 80s, 90s, and beyond.
Transcript
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Hello, everyone. This is Lana, your host for the next hour. My guest is Claire joining
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us from South Africa. We'll discuss what life is like for Afrikaners post-apartheid. You've
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all heard the lies about apartheid and you're still hearing lies about post-apartheid. South
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Africa is today hailed as a rainbow nation, evoking imagery of cheerful smiles and peaceful
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people, but it's anything but. They claim this rainbow nation is diverse, incorporating
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many people. Yeah, we've been hearing that ad nauseum in the north, too. Well, no, it's
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just one color that matters in South Africa, and that color is black. It's funny, though,
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because symbolically and scientifically speaking, white is the visible expression of all color
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combined as light, and black is a complete absence of light and therefore color. Claire,
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up next. Welcome, Claire. It's great to connect with you.
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Yeah. Hi, Lana. Thanks so much for having me on. It's a great pleasure to be able to talk
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Great. Thank you. That'll be fun. Well, since you're a new voice, I think, tell us a little
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bit about what you do in South Africa. And I realize you can't say too much considering
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the current political climate down there because you could get in trouble, negatively speaking,
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about the tyrants running your country. But what can you tell us about what you do down
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there? Right. Okay. Well, I have a law background. I have a degree in law, and that was my initial
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plan was to become an attorney, but it didn't really suit my personality. So I work at a small
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firm doing geographical information systems. Obviously, I was born during the apartheid era,
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and I was about 11 or 12 when the ANC came to power. So I've grown up in South Africa,
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Yeah. The apartheid ended in 94, so it lasted for about 50 years. I was actually in South
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Africa in the 90s, too. Do you remember anything from that era? Or did you hear things from
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your parents and grandparents? Because we get so much disinfo.
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Oh, yes, absolutely. I was very fortunate to go to a private school here, which was very
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progressive. For its day, I was sort of in primary school in the 80s and early 90s.
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And my school was one of the first schools to admit black. It was a girls' school, and it was
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one of the first schools to admit black girls. So for me, it was, you know, I sort of grew up in
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quite a liberal kind of environmental atmosphere. But I remember apartheid very clearly. And I remember
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sort of being given quite a balanced view about it as I was growing up. I didn't see it as the worst
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thing in the world. My dad was a supporter of the National Party. So yeah, I mean, I remember how
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prosperous things were back then. The economy was strong, and the RAND was worth about 20 times more
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back then than it is now. Now, were people, they were happier, it was safer? Even blacks did better,
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right? Absolutely. The economy was much stronger. And yes, there was, the segregation back then was
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obviously a lot more marked than it is now. I remember in our neighborhoods, there were really
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no black or Indian people living in the neighborhood that I lived in. I had a black nanny and maid, and
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all the white families did back then. Which is funny to me that they do that, you know?
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You know, but everybody did, and still do. I mean, it's something that hasn't really changed.
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And it was just accepted by both races, I think, at the time. Everyone kind of, I think for the most
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part, normal people just accepted the way things were. And, you know, it was a lot more peaceful back
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then, from what I recall. Now, we get so much disinfo in the North, we hear that white people
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were just mass murdering blacks, but none of that is true, right? No, it's not true at all. I mean,
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yes, the apartheid government had ways to deal with dissidents. That's undeniable. People were
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arrested, members of the ANC were arrested and thrown into prison. And, you know, I'm sure
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they were dealt with harshly. But as for mass murdering, that simply didn't happen. You had
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things like the Sharpeville shooting, which was in 1961, if I'm not mistaken, which caused a huge
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huge outcry, because it was school children that basically descended on a police station,
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if I'm not mistaken. They were protesting being taught in Afrikaans. And they were fired at
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for 30 seconds by the police. And to this day, we still have a public holiday commemorating
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that event, because it was such a big outcry. But that sort of thing, you know, it's been
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very exaggerated. I think that the violence of blacks on blacks was, I think, a lot more
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intense than whites on black has been pretty minimal in comparison.
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Now, when apartheid ended, what do you remember? What happened?
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I was about 12 at the time, as I say. And I clearly remember the first democratic election,
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where the entire country was sort of riding this incredibly optimistic wave. We'd seen
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it coming since Nelson Mandela was released from prison. And so we knew it was coming. And
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everyone was in really good spirits, I think, because, you know, we were very conditioned to
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believe that this was a good thing. And it was much to be desired and very welcome. And so
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when everyone turned out to vote, the whole country was in a very positive mood, I would say, and
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celebrations. And it was, I think, from what I remember, it was relatively peaceful.
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And, yeah, and we won the Rugby World Cup the following year, which was a very, you know,
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first time black players were allowed to play international rugby. And so it was a very,
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I would say it was an extremely optimistic time. I'm quite short lived, I would say. But at the time,
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I think the entirety of South Africa had been prepared, you know, to see it as a really good
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thing. Yeah, I wonder how it went from nationalism, basically, to a lot of these Marxist ideas that are
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infecting a lot of Afrikaners, which I'm, how did that happen in such a quick period, if you know?
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Exactly. And that's what I wanted to get into with you is, there was a lot of conditioning that went
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on. And I can see it now looking back, because I was a child and a teenager when it was happening.
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And as I look back, I can see how we were being primed for it, by the things that were being said in
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the media, by the things that we were being taught at school. You know, from starting off seeing it as
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a really positive step for the country, it became more and more insidious, really, with the sort of
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influx of this extremely socialist and then Marxist and increasingly strict kind of anti-white kind of
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agenda that just kind of started to creep in more and more insidiously. But it was as slow as the,
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this has been sort of 20 years or so in the making. And it's crept in gradually. I mean,
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I remember very clearly, when I was in, when I was about 16, in high school, we were learning about
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South African history. And, and we were talking about, you know, we were conditioned at the time
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to see Nelson Mandela as this wonderful man. And a mass murderer. Yes, exactly. The savior who'd come
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to rescue our country. And no one really even questioned this because of all the, the, just the,
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you know what it's like, the emotional kind of just conditioning that you get day in and day out
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in the media and you're told about how amazing this is, how miraculous this is, how with this rainbow nation.
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And so whether you might not fully believe it because you obviously have questions and I was raised
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to be a very critical thinker, but you're willing to ride this tide as long as everything's sort of going,
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okay. You sort of think, okay, well, maybe I can go along with this. And, you know, when you ask questions,
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you're told, no, this is for the best. And, and you just need to accept it. And the sooner you accept it, the better.
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Um, but I remember very clearly, as I, as I was saying, when I was about 16 or so,
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we were being taught about affirmative action. It was, you know, they were very quick to bring that in.
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And I mean, they came into power in 1994 and I would say by, by the late nineties,
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they'd already implemented affirmative action. And, um, we were taught about affirmative action
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in school. And, and I remember my very first question because it was the first time I'd ever
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heard of it was, okay, well, if this is a, if this is a measure to redress the so-called wrongs of the
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past, how long is it going to last? Because surely you can't have affirmative action indefinitely.
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If they're going to put this in as a policy, um, to kind of help blacks to get to where they say
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they're supposed to be, surely it's got to be a temporary measure. Um, and of course it had to
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have been whites that introduced this idea because the Africans didn't think of this on their own,
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right? Yeah. Well, it's, it's Marxist, um, policy, which, and at the, the ANC that came into power
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had been spending their time in Cuba and Russia learning Marxist ideology during the so-called
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apartheid struggle. So they were importing all these ideas from overseas. Um, so for me, I, to me,
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I just thought, okay, well, this is just apartheid with another name, surely, uh, to my sort of young
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mind, I thought, okay, well, um, affirmative action. Okay. Even if you can stretch your kind
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of reasoning to say that it's something which is fair, surely it's not going to always be fair.
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It's got to come to an end at some point. Um, I was told that, um, in fact, the ANC government had
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no timeline on affirmative action whatsoever. To me, this seemed shocking. Even to my teenage mind,
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I thought this was a shocking injustice, um, that you can be willing to punish future generations of
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whites for years to come for something they didn't even do. I was a child when this all happened, and
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yet I was going to have to suffer the consequences of affirmative action for, with no end in sight.
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Well, and that's what's happening in every white country, whether you're Swedish or Russian,
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it doesn't matter. You're white, you're guilty. You have to pay for transatlantic slave trade.
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You know, it's just ridiculous. Or colonialism. We're all implicated in it for some reason.
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Yeah. You were talking about it's broad-based black economic empowerment, right? God,
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It started off, you know, innocent enough, as I say, it started off as this very gentle kind of
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idea of affirmative action. And, and whites were acclimatized to this idea through conditioning,
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through the education system, through, I got it in high school. And then again, when I studied at
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university, you got it rammed down your throats again. And, and gently, they, they conditioned us to
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this, this idea of affirmative action. But it didn't stay this gentle idea of affirmative action
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for long. It's been, you know, took root in, in various laws. And I was reading the other day,
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apparently there are 114 different pieces of affirmative action legislation in South Africa.
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Now, yeah. And so from starting off as, as being this kind of fair, supposedly fair policy that the ANC
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were introducing to address the wrongs of the past, it then just became gradually more and more insidious,
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where then new legislation was passed, which, which actually entrenched it in law. It's, it's,
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was no longer kind of a gentle persuasive tactic. It's now part of our law and it's not going anywhere.
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Then they, um, it wasn't long after that when they introduced quota systems,
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where, um, the idea was that companies had to hire staff on the basis of the demographic makeup
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of South Africa. So South Africa being 80% black, 10%, roughly 10% white, 10% colored and Indian,
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their companies were told that their staff quotas had to, um, look like that.
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Yeah. So, um, yeah. So the, after it was passed into law, um, quotas were introduced where companies
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had to submit reports as to how many people of different races they were employing.
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Um, it's ridiculous. Yeah. It's like in, in, in America, you have, you have to employ minorities.
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They have all these special privileges here. Whereas in South Africa, the majority has the
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special privileges, right? Exactly. I mean, you wouldn't introduce something to protect the
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majority. If you didn't believe that the majority could make it on their own, that that's obvious.
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Um, if, if, if the majority could get hired on their own merits, um, you wouldn't need these
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incredibly far reaching laws. Um, so from the quota system, it quickly moved. Well, over a period of
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time that there was, the government was constantly over a period of years has been saying that that
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hasn't been doing enough. Oh, geez. So are there black only companies and do they have to meet
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diversity quotas too? No, no. Um, it, it doesn't work the other way around. Um, so that, that, that
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double standard is, is never questioned by the government. Black only companies are certainly
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not pressured to hire white, um, employees. It, it really only, um, applies where you have companies
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that were traditionally mostly white that are being pressured, not only to hire, um, in their new hiring,
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to hire black employees, but, but actually to there, we went through a, a long period of time where
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skilled white workers, and my mom was, was one of them, were retrenched to make way for new black
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employees. So, um, that, that happened for quite a long time. It wasn't enough just to hold on to your
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job. White employees were actually retrenched and fired so that companies could make up their quotas.
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Um, but, but certainly no, uh, black, black companies, only black companies are held up as
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paragraph. They're definitely not, um, required to hire white people. Well, then why would those
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people have a problem with apartheid if they want to be separate anyway? It just seems like they just
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want to have whites around to kind of toy with them and tantalize them, or maybe make them work for
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them, kind of be slaves for them, but they don't want them to really separate and do their own thing,
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right? Well, well, this is it. Um, you, you notice that blacks want to have a piece of the white pie,
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but it doesn't work the other way around. Um, for the most part, um, I think white people, if left to
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their own devices, do tend to stick together. Um, I work for a company that's, um, that has an unspoken
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policy of just hiring white people. So does my boyfriend. And, and I think that's how whites
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have been able to survive really in this new climate is by sticking together and, and white
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neighborhoods tend to stay white. And even if they don't explicitly, um, exclude other races because
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they can't, um, I think they, in, in practical ways, we can get it. So I think for the most part,
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you know, people are not really interested in mixing, except where the government forces it to
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happen. You know, where, where government has forced big companies to hire, you know, many people of
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different races. Um, for the most part, people are happier when they are with their own kind.
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Now, is it easy for whites to start a business on their own or is it tough to get loans or do they
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need government approval? What's that process like? Cause I know in places like Fiji, for instance,
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if a foreigner wants to start a business, they have to go into business with a Fijian in order to start
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the business. Oh gosh. Um, it's not easy. The slow economic growth has, has made starting a business
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pretty difficult for just about anybody. And a lot of white people not having, not being able to
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get access to the job markets, um, I think have tried to start their own businesses, but, but it's
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difficult because, um, because of the slow economic growth rates. And also the, the government has
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implemented pretty, um, kind of burdensome legislation for small businesses where they have to meet so
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many administrative, you know, requirements that it, it is, it's difficult to get a business off the
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ground. And, and banks in this country are also very, um, gun shy about giving loans out. Um, certainly
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if you don't have money behind you, which many whites just simply don't anymore. Um, it, it is,
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it's not easy to start a business here now. Now, what is your media like down there? Is it as
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controlled as we have up here in the North? I mean, are they also blasting Black Lives Matter
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propaganda and showing, you know, in America blacks are, you know, shot by cops? Do they show that?
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Absolutely. Um, I would say, I, I mean, I can't speak for exactly what the media is like in America
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and Europe. I've, I've kind of had a taste first of what I've gone looking for in the internet, but I
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would say it's probably a lot worse here. Um, because they, they've got such a ready scapegoat
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with apartheid, um, just for the longest time. Um, it's like the Holocaust card, the apartheid card,
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you know, he can do anything because of the apartheid. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I would say it's a lot
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worse, um, over here. Um, you, not only have you got this sort of ready-made scapegoat in the form of
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apartheid, which people have been amazingly willing to swallow. Um, you know, there's, you,
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there's no end to the number of things that have been blamed on apartheid. And most recently, um, we,
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we, we've had the protesters destroying the universities. Um, and, and obviously that's
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been blamed on apartheid too. They, they don't want the sort of white institutions that we set
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up for them during apartheid. Um, and they want free education and they don't want to pay fees and
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they don't like the Euro, apparently the Eurocentric nature of our education. And so there, there's no
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end to the number of ways you can spin apartheid being to blame for things. So, um, the, the media
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is, I think, taking the sort of stance that, um, when in doubt, rather be sympathetic to those blaming
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apartheid. So people have been very reluctant to come out and say, well, you know,
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actually apartheid isn't to blame for everything. Not all white people are racist. Um, the, the,
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the media have been very reluctant to sort of take a realistic stance on things because you've had
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the occasional person who's popped their head up and, and sort of spoke now about the things that
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are going on and they've had pretty horrific consequences when they've done that. Um, people have
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lost their jobs. That, that's usually the first thing that happens when you, when you say something
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that, that sounds like it's sort of criticizing the apartheid is to blame for all things party line. Um,
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people have been found guilty to pay horrific fines. Um, yeah, the, the, the fear.
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Do you spend any time in jail for quote unquote hate speech or racism? What happens to them? What's
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some of the worst things that can happen to them other than being fired and fined? They could be killed,
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right? Um, yeah. Um, I don't know of anyone who's actually been killed as a result. I don't know of
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anyone who's actually spent time in jail for hate speech. Um, but certainly, um, I, I know of one
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lady who was given a 150,000 round fine for something she said on Facebook. Um, another guy
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was also given a massive fine. They were, had to do community service, which I suppose it doesn't
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sound that bad, but when you take it in context, in the context of losing your job on top of that and
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jobs are hard to come by South Africa these days, it's enough to make people self-censor pretty
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heavily, I would say. You, you've got to be very careful, um, of the things that you say.
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Yeah. Like Penny Sparrow, right? She mentioned something about black people on the beaches.
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They were, what'd you say, behaving like monkeys. They were littering everywhere,
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not picking up their trash and she got in big trouble, didn't she?
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She had the audacity to mention this, which is something that everybody knows. Um, all white
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people know this. This has been happening since I was a child for, you know, for as long as I can
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remember. Um, you don't go to the beaches on New Year's Day because it's, it's a massive black mass
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of people. Um, and the, the, the beaches are in a total state, um, afterwards. And, and she just,
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she mentioned this on Facebook and she, she used the unfortunate word monkey, but it, she was
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referring to the fact that a monkey will, and we have monkeys over here. They'll, they'll pick
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something up, they'll take one bite and they'll throw it on the ground. And that's what she meant
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by the comments. I, I don't think she, it wasn't as kind of, I certainly wouldn't regard that as hate
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speech. But she was, she was absolutely plagued with death threats after that came out. She was
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found guilty in court of hate speech. Um, she was fined 150,000 rand. Um, and her life will never be
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the same again. She was absolutely vilified in the media. It was, it was actually very sad to watch
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because I, I really don't think that she meant it, um, in, in a particularly mean-spirited way. I
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think she was referring to the fact that she was disgraced by the fact that her own beaches,
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you know, were a pigsty, which we all love. Of course, you should be mad about that. Absolutely.
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It's how we all feel. But just because she said it, um, you know, it, she was turned into,
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into a villain and so many white people jumped on the bandwagon and said, oh, you know, it's terrible
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that she said these things, but it's things that they say in private and, and she said it publicly.
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So. So would you say the majority of Afrikaners are, are liberal these days or where do they fall on
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the political spectrum then? I wouldn't say that they're, I wouldn't go so far as to say that
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they're liberal. I would say they've been neutered to be honest. I think they just, they feel very
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despondent. Um, I, I think they see their, their culture and their heritage slipping away from them.
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Um, the universities that used to teach in Afrikaans are not allowed to do that anymore. Um, Afrikaans is
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not really a language that's being encouraged to be spoken at this so much shame attached to,
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to being an Afrikaner. Um, and, and they're not encouraged to, to preserve their heritage. It's
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quite difficult, um, in the current climates. So I would, I would say they, I wouldn't go so far as to
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say they're liberals because I, I think they're pretty right wing, um, in, in their hearts. Um,
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they, they love, you know, the Afrikaner culture goes back so far. They, they love their culture.
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They love their people. They love their history. They're not really ashamed, but they've been made
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to feel so much shame that I think they don't really know which way is up anymore. They're very
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confused and they're, you just don't hear from them so much anymore. Um, I think when they're
00:26:12.520
called upon to say something that they'll try, give the most liberal answer that they can,
00:26:17.800
they'll tell you apartheid was a terrible thing and, and they'll, they'll sort of protest that
0.68
00:26:23.080
they're not racist. Um, but I think it's like that. It's like that here too. I think a lot of white
0.51
00:26:29.560
people in Europe and America, Australia, New Zealand, in the colonies, I think they're really
00:26:34.520
nationalists in their heart, but they're not brave enough to come out and say it because of all the
00:26:39.160
social repercussions that happen. Even here with Trump supporters, you know, I try and coax it out
00:26:44.040
of people. And the only way I can do it is like, Hey, I'm voting for Trump. And then they say, Oh yeah,
00:26:47.640
okay. Oh, I'm voting for Trump too. It's like, there's a shame to admit that, you know, they're
00:26:52.120
worried about what might happen. That's exactly it. It's like they, they, they believe the things that
00:26:58.200
we're speaking about in their hearts, but, um, it's, yeah, it's, it's that exactly there. That's
00:27:04.120
just so terrified of being ostracized and of something negative happening to them. Um,
00:27:09.720
that they, they don't really, they don't want to be the first one to sort of come out in support of
00:27:15.720
any kind of anything that even smells like a right wing idea. Now, how do whites view the white squatter
0.59
00:27:21.640
camps? Do they ignore it? Do they resent them? Do they think they're trashy or what's their stance on
00:27:27.160
the destitute, you know, whites in poverty? Yeah, I think, um, I, to be honest, I think white people in
0.97
00:27:33.880
this country are just incredibly saddened by us. We, we sympathize that I don't think there's a single
00:27:41.800
white person in this country who hasn't been affected somehow by the new regime. And so I think
00:27:48.200
we have a great deal of just a great deal of sympathy for, for the whites that have been incredibly hard
00:27:55.400
hits and lost their jobs, lost their livelihood. Um, I think we'd love to do more to help, but so many of
00:28:03.320
us are just simply trying to survive, you know, ourselves. Um, but yeah, there's, there's no
00:28:11.000
question that, that we know how hard this has been on, on our own people. And, um, it, I think it saddens,
00:28:20.680
it saddens other white South Africans tremendously. As I say, we've all been hissed in one way or another.
00:28:26.280
Um, but, but lots of, we've all had people who've lost their jobs. Um, and from what I've seen too,
00:28:35.160
it seems like the, the rich white people that are down there are, well, they're members of another
00:28:40.520
tribe, if I put it that way, but they're also more Marxists. So they really don't give a damn
0.87
00:28:45.400
about poor white people anyway. Yeah. I think, um, it's become very fashionable to support black
0.99
00:28:52.280
charities rather than white charities. It's, it's this, that's just it. Yeah. I think there's a
0.87
00:28:57.160
sort of a feeling that, um, well, the white people will kind of be okay no matter what. And
00:29:04.840
it's just kind of more, it's not very fashionable to come out in public and support white only
00:29:12.200
charities. Um, it's, it's a lot more fashionable to, to be seen to be siding with black people.
00:29:20.280
That's honestly just that I've seen that in, um, my own friends and, um, in the people around me.
00:29:28.200
It's yeah. People think, oh, they have privilege. They'll come out of it. Okay. Even though they're
00:29:31.960
living in the dirt, right? They're privileged. They'll, they'll figure it out. They're white.
0.95
00:29:36.120
They'll figure it out. Well, then that's saying that we're different.
00:29:38.120
Yeah, exactly. Um, and, and that's the irony of this is that people know that we're different.
00:29:45.560
Everybody race is a reality that everybody knows about, but as for actually coming out and doing
00:29:53.800
anything practical about it, that's where people are, they've just been so conditioned over the
00:30:00.360
course of their life to be terrified of, of doing anything, which seems to support white people.
0.64
00:30:05.960
And, and I know, um, as much as, you know, I agree with the sort of things that you guys are saying,
00:30:13.560
for the most part, it's, it's difficult to come out and say, well, you know, I, I want to
00:30:19.080
only support my own kind, or I want to uplift other white people before. I mean, that I think in
0.70
00:30:26.280
practice, that's how a lot of us, as I was saying, that's how a lot of us live our lives. Where, where we can,
00:30:31.640
we'll give a job to a deserving white person. Um, but as for coming out publicly and saying,
00:30:39.320
that's what we're doing, I think people like to look as if they're liberal, if that makes sense.
00:30:44.840
Yeah. And I think maybe down there, maybe right now is not the smartest time. I mean,
00:30:48.040
there's a lot of ultra right people up in Europe and America that stay anonymous,
00:30:52.360
but I think things will change as it becomes more popular. And as we've become more of a bigger group
00:30:57.560
and a force to be reckoned with, people will have some courage to come out, if you know what I mean.
00:31:01.880
Absolutely. Well, there is also a group I want to ask you about, you told me it was called
00:31:06.360
Solidarity, you would say in English down in South Africa. What are they doing? Because they also,
00:31:10.600
also submitted a report to the UN, right? Yes. Um, I, I found that so interesting. This is
00:31:15.400
something I only discovered a few days ago. Um, it's Solidaritate is the South, the Afrikaans word,
00:31:22.440
at least. And it means Solidarity. Um, and, um, they've been putting up ads on YouTube where, um,
00:31:30.040
they, it's, it's a group that, um, have seen what's going on. They've seen how, um, white young,
00:31:38.440
youngsters are being refused admission to university because of quotas, um, how white youngsters are not
0.98
00:31:46.680
getting jobs. They've, they've sort of seen the plight of specifically Afrikaans, white youngsters,
00:31:52.760
but just white youngsters in, in general. And, and they sort of thought, okay, well,
00:31:58.840
they want to do something to uplift specifically white young people. And they've, um, set up, um,
00:32:05.000
education funds and to, you know, so that to enable deserving white youngsters to go to university
00:32:12.200
and, um, to start businesses and that sort of thing. Um, and, and it is specifically for white
1.00
00:32:20.760
people. Um, and, um, they submitted a report to the United Nations and the United, there was a committee
00:32:28.600
that the United Nations formed that actually, um, called a delegation from the South African government
00:32:35.800
to address the points that were raised in this report that the, that Solidaritate, um, submitted to
00:32:43.880
them. And, um, the, the UN committee findings, um, on the South African government's policies were
00:32:51.880
absolutely damning. They were, you know, they found them to be racist in the extreme, what, what they're
00:32:58.680
doing to white people because the, the, the policies of the South African government and what the UN said is
00:33:05.480
that they're, they're based purely on your race. They're the barriers to the job market have got
0.95
00:33:10.280
nothing to do with your, um, your poverty status or, um, how deserving you are in terms of, um,
00:33:19.560
your economic level. It's pure barrier based on race. And, and the UN, um, sort of called the, the
00:33:30.360
South African government to answer on how, you know, to justify their, their policies. And, um,
00:33:40.280
yeah. Wow. I didn't, I didn't hear anything about this. There are no media attention. So what came out of
00:33:45.720
this? It's amazing that the UN is even acknowledging this because a lot of people have been using the
00:33:50.520
word genocide down in South Africa and talking about all the murders, but nothing ever comes of
00:33:55.640
it. Well, this is exactly it. This just goes to show you how much this has been suppressed in the
00:34:00.200
media. Um, I, I certainly hadn't heard about it until I specifically Googled Solidaritate because I
00:34:06.440
was looking for information on them. And it turned out that they'd compiled the shadow reports with figures,
00:34:12.680
um, of the rising poverty amongst whites in South Africa. And, and they'd gone and documented the
00:34:23.560
affirmative action laws and the effects of affirmative action in detail and the effects
00:34:26.920
that it was having on the white population. Um, and they'd submitted this shadow report and the UN
00:34:31.240
were shocked. Um, and as I say, they, they called the South African government to account for it.
00:34:37.720
Whether anything will actually come of it or be done about it, I'm not sure, but I, as
00:34:44.680
like you, I was just amazed that this didn't find its way into the mainstream media. Um,
00:34:53.240
in fact, these sort of statistics are hidden from us. They're, it's hard, hard to find unless you
00:35:00.680
actually go looking for us. Well, the UN should be releasing a press release, but I guess they don't,
00:35:05.160
they didn't do that when it came to this report. Yeah. It doesn't seem like it. No.
00:35:11.240
Uh, now what's the latest news with the attack on the farmers and the attempts to redistribute the
00:35:16.600
land? I don't hear much about that anymore. No. Um, I think again, that's, that's a prime example of
00:35:22.600
where, um, this is being kept out of the news. All that we really know as South African consumers
00:35:28.520
is that, um, food as a result, you know, coming from farms, it's just getting more and more expensive
00:35:34.520
because it's the production levels are dropping as farms are being taken away from productive white
00:35:41.160
farmers and redistributed, um, to, to black farmers. The, the production levels at those sorts of farms
0.74
00:35:49.880
typically drops dramatically causing food shortages, which, you know, causes the price of everything to
00:35:57.000
rise. Um, uh, in terms of, um, farm murders, I, I haven't heard too much about that in the news
00:36:04.680
recently. There, there was, these things tend to come in waves. Um, and it, it seems like when there
00:36:12.040
are a few, it seems to give a whole lot of these sort of rather violent farm laborers the idea, um, to,
00:36:19.800
to do it. So, um, you, you get these crime waves where it kind of sweeps through a particular area and
00:36:25.720
lots of farms get hard hit at once. Yeah. They get a pack mentality or as they say in America,
00:36:31.160
chimp outs. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You've got farms that are close together where, um,
0.99
00:36:40.120
the farmers are being murdered. Um, and, um, then it seems to go quiet for a while, but how many of
00:36:46.600
these are actually being reported and actually making their way into the news? I'm not sure.
00:36:51.000
What I do know is, is those farmers that I know of, um, um, their, their outlook is pretty bleak.
00:36:58.200
They're either embroiled in, in land claims, um, where you, you've got blacks that are land claimed
0.86
00:37:05.080
to their land or they've just got such heavy security on the farms. Um, you know, generally they,
00:37:14.840
they are terrified, um, of being attacked. Yeah. What do you, what do you think of all
00:37:20.840
these claims? You know, they stole the land because we know that we, I've talked to enough
00:37:25.000
South Africans to learn a bit of history down there. There was nothing when European settlers
0.99
00:37:30.680
arrived. Well, it's, it's, it's completely false. I learned today actually that, um, the Zulus, um,
0.99
00:37:39.320
sort of actually came down into a lot of the territories at this, around about the same time
00:37:46.680
that the Dutch did. So the, the indigenous people that were living here were certainly not
0.99
00:37:51.960
the same black people that we have today who are mostly Zulus. The Zulus were not here when, um,
1.00
00:38:00.120
when white people came to South Africa 300 or so years ago. Um, so the idea that, that we stole the
00:38:07.160
land from them is, is just blatantly false. Um, it's, the Zulus wiped out the local blacks that were here
1.00
00:38:18.520
who were not Zulus and are practically extinct now. Um, so if anything, the Zulus should actually be, um,
0.94
00:38:27.720
paying reparations and giving the land back to those kind of, kind of remaining, um,
00:38:33.080
uh, uh, uh, Bushmen who were actually here before them. But, but it's definitely not the case that
00:38:41.880
sort of droves of white people came and chased them off the land. It's just, it's just not true.
00:38:47.240
Um, yeah, people always have this romantic idea that it was just all peace and they're all just holding
00:38:53.080
hands before the white man arrived, right? It's like, no, they were killing each other, you know?
00:38:58.200
There was plenty of war going on. Very violent, aggressive people. Um, and there was a great
00:39:05.640
sort of deal of battling going on when white people arrived here. Um, and, and certainly the, the Zulus
1.00
00:39:12.360
of today bear no resemblance to, or had the sort of link to their past is so tenuous that, that to say
00:39:21.000
they, they have more of a right to the land than some farmer who's been farming it productively for the
00:39:26.840
last several generations. It's, it's crazy. Um, but that this is the sort of logic that, that we are
00:39:34.120
kind of living with these days. So do they also in the universities there, do they also push,
00:39:40.920
you know, all these lies about slavery and colonialism? Do you get the same kind of
00:39:45.080
garbage down there as we get up here? Oh yes. Absolutely. Um, universities are very liberal.
0.98
00:39:51.320
They have to be. Um, I remember when I was studying law, um, I had it sort of pushed down my throat
00:39:59.560
that, um, you know, all these sort of liberal lies that we get told about how, um, land is, is a right,
00:40:08.520
um, just like food and water. So, um, everyone has a right to land whether they've worked for it or not.
00:40:17.080
Um, and the, how the people only, black people only commit crime because they're poor. Um, and
1.00
00:40:27.320
yeah, it's, it, the, you, you're taught about apartheid and, and virtually nothing else. You're
00:40:31.960
certainly not taught about your own heritage. I, I learned more than I could ever wish to about the
00:40:39.800
apartheid governments and about the struggle, you know, to free us from apartheid. But I learned very
00:40:45.960
little about the history of my own people. We didn't sort of learn much about, um, you know, the,
00:40:54.600
the, our sort of ancestors who came to South Africa, the, the, the Dutch who settled here and,
00:41:02.520
and any of that sort of information. It's just, it's, it's, everything is clouded by this agenda
00:41:08.440
agenda where we kind of have to, it, it all kind of seems to be wanting to bring us to a point,
00:41:15.080
um, where we kind of accept that we have this tainted past and, and now we have to accept that
00:41:23.720
we're this rainbow nation. Um, and, and everything in the education system, I would say, is sort of
00:41:29.640
geared towards bringing you to that sort of acceptance.
00:41:32.680
Now, are they pushing the same kind of lines of, Oh, we need to all just mix ourselves out for peace
00:41:38.440
and just be one race and then we'll all get along. Do you hear some of that down there?
00:41:42.040
Oh, yes, absolutely. Um, it's, I would say I see it the most in, in terms of kind of
00:41:49.960
living arrangements. The, the apartheid government was pretty effective in dividing the different races
0.98
00:41:55.800
up into different areas. Um, and, um, what, what we have is a situation now where black people are
1.00
00:42:05.880
moving into white neighborhoods. Obviously it's not happening the other way around. White people
0.99
00:42:10.760
are not moving into black neighborhoods, but, um, that, so you, you typically have, you know,
00:42:16.760
some blacks living in white neighborhoods and, and, and it, it just, it doesn't work because culturally,
00:42:22.680
we are just so very different. Um, for example, um, Zulus will celebrate a wedding by slaughtering a
1.00
00:42:31.880
goat and they'll, they will have these sorts of celebrations in their back garden right next to,
00:42:39.640
um, someone like myself, who's very white, very culturally English. And the, the two cultures are just
0.82
00:42:49.320
completely diametrically opposed. Yeah. You're like having your tea and biscuits while your
00:42:54.920
neighbors slaughtering a goat. Yeah, that doesn't work. Exactly. And, and you have, they're, they're a
00:43:01.320
very like loud and gregarious sort of people and, and they play their music extremely loud. And, and
00:43:09.720
that's just not how we are. They, they'll, they'll cram way more people into a house than
00:43:17.560
the house can actually hold. And, and you've got these two living side by side. And to, to draw any
00:43:26.760
attention to that, the, the fact that it makes us uncomfortable is, is supposedly racist. I mean,
00:43:32.920
I, I, I own a flat in a block of flats and, and, and I lived there for a little bit. I don't live
00:43:38.920
there anymore. I rent slats, but I lived there for a bit. And there was a black family living in the
00:43:45.400
same block of flats and the, the unit that they had could only, was only allowed to have two adults
00:43:53.640
and two children. But they had four children living in a very, in one room really. And, and these
00:44:03.720
children would just cry and scream and make, make a huge noise. And I, I went to them and tried to very
00:44:10.760
nicely talk to them about it and, you know, kind of raise my concern. And, and, and I was roundly
00:44:17.880
told just for having the audacity to talk to them about it. I was, I was told that I was racist and
00:44:25.000
yeah. So it's funny because something like that just happened here in America and these,
00:44:29.240
it makes the news. Apparently some happened to be white guy and his neighbor happened to be black,
00:44:34.840
who was making lots of noise at night. It was like three in the morning. He goes and leaves a note on
00:44:40.200
his door. You know, you're being a rude neighbor. Please keep it quiet. My wife and I have to get
00:44:44.440
up early to sleep. Well, this guy ran to the press with it and said that there's some racist white guy
00:44:49.880
was attacking him. And this is gent, this is what gentrification sounds like. So basically
00:44:54.840
silence, asking for silence and peace and quiet is becoming racist, you know?
00:44:59.320
Yeah. This is, this is it exactly. No one has any sympathy when, when you try to
00:45:05.720
kind of approach this reasonably and say, well, you know, culturally, this is just not how we do things.
00:45:12.360
Um, and yeah, the, the second that you kind of suggest that they should
00:45:19.320
maybe amend their behavior to, to be a bit more considerate to their neighbors is
00:45:26.440
you're branded a racist because you can't draw attention. I was told in that same block of flats,
00:45:32.200
I was told, well, black people just speak loudly and, and they shout and that I need to,
1.00
00:45:39.400
I need to get used to that. Just accept it, right? Just accept it. Um, you, you can be on the other
0.87
00:45:48.280
side of, of the road and hear a black person having a conversation, but the same is not true for white
0.84
00:45:54.120
people. White people speak quietly and that they're generally quiet in their ways over here. So, um,
0.69
00:46:00.760
apparently just for wanting that sort of level of quietness around you, that is
00:46:08.600
regarded as racist over here. Yeah. Isn't it interesting? It's always in every white country.
0.53
00:46:12.840
It's always white people that have to give something up or surrender something. It's never
0.69
00:46:17.000
the other way around. It's never people respecting us and our ways. It's always us having to give up
00:46:22.040
more and more and more all the time. Yeah, that's, that's it. Exactly. We're the ones who've got to
00:46:27.480
understand. We're the ones who've got to make allowances, but they don't ever show any willingness
00:46:34.520
to make allowances for the way we are, our quiet way of life. Um, they, they don't have much respect
00:46:42.200
for that. Um, so it, it, it saddens me. We, we, we pushed, like you, like you say, this, this kind of
00:46:49.400
multicultural, this sort of diversity where we, we all have to live together, although no one is really
00:46:55.160
happy with it. It doesn't work. It, it just, it doesn't work. It's because it's forced. If it's
00:47:02.040
organic and people move together, that's one thing, but this is not, this is government forcing people
00:47:07.000
to live with each other. I mean, that just doesn't work. You can't force people to do it. If they think
00:47:11.400
it was wrong to force people apart, why is it right all of a sudden, morally right to force people
0.94
00:47:16.360
together? Yeah. Why do they think this is morally that they're, they're the ones that are right in this
00:47:21.400
matter? Yeah. I, well, I think it's because they have kind of become the new writers of the moral
00:47:27.400
code. Um, where they kind of decided you're a good person if you, if you put up with, um,
00:47:36.440
you know, a culture that's foreign to you and you're a bad person if you don't like it. So, um,
0.96
00:47:42.280
you're, you're a good person if, if you accept that your universities are being burned to the ground
0.96
00:47:47.960
and you're a bad person if you kind of say, well, this is outrageous and, um, black people
1.00
00:47:56.600
should not be allowed to burn the very universities that my ancestors worked very hard to build for
0.92
00:48:05.560
them. Um, it, I, I, I don't get how it's, how you can have the moral high ground when you're doing
00:48:12.920
things that are just complacently wrong. You know, um, it, it, it saddens me a great deal.
00:48:19.960
I don't mind telling you. Well, it's up to people like us to not accept it, to fight back and to say,
00:48:26.200
actually, no, you're wrong. And what you're doing is totally evil and hateful instead of just putting
00:48:32.120
up with it and being quiet and going away. Yeah. And this is what I've been trying to say to people
00:48:37.240
as much as I can. Anyone that I, that I talk to about it, I do try to say, well, you know,
00:48:42.120
it's, it's not virtuous to keep quiet in the name of, um, trying not to seem racist. You do have to
00:48:48.440
call out things that are, that are just blatantly wrong. Um, crime is wrong. Destroying universities
00:48:55.320
is wrong. Um, I'm, I'm not going to keep quiet about that and say, well, I'm going to try and be
00:49:05.080
sympathetic and try and understand just simply because the people that are behaving in the way
00:49:10.520
of black, I'm not prepared to do it. And I do as much as people are still afraid to, they're afraid
00:49:15.960
to come up and kind of say it. Um, but, but I agree that that's part of the reason I'm doing this
00:49:20.840
interview with you is because I, I do think we have an obligation to, to come up.
00:49:26.200
Yeah. We have to think about the, the future of our kids. Otherwise they're going to be like,
00:49:30.040
well, what did you do mommy and daddy? I stayed quiet. I watched it happen and I said nothing.
00:49:35.480
I mean, what's noble and virtuous about that, right? Exactly.
00:49:39.080
What's brave and courageous about that? That's not the ways of our ancient ancestors.
00:49:43.360
No, no, not at all. We need to grow a bit of backbone here. I think it's about time that we did.
00:49:49.400
Well, I know you also wanted to talk about social media and how it's being used for witch
00:49:53.360
hunts to hunt down people who speak and think like we do. So what would you like to say about that?
00:49:57.660
Yeah, there were, there were quite a few people that I thought, um, warranted a bit of a mention
00:50:02.400
because I just, for me, I just found it so disgraceful. They, they were witch hunted really.
00:50:07.900
Um, I spoke about Penny Sparrow and, and what she said about the beaches. And, um, there was a DJ
00:50:14.960
who he, he didn't even come out and support what she'd said. He simply made a comment about free speech
00:50:22.320
and that the way people had, um, vilified her wasn't in keeping with free speech. And simply for saying
00:50:30.380
that on, on social media, um, he lost his job and was called a racist. Simply for, for, for trying to
00:50:41.940
stand up for this woman's right to free speech. He didn't even say supported what she said. He just
00:50:47.180
simply said he believed that she had the right to say it really. I don't think he was even as direct
00:50:53.300
as that. So, so that's how, how bad it's become. Um, there were a few other examples that, that I
00:50:59.880
mentioned to you. Um, um, um, Chris Hart was, uh, an investment bank with Standard Bank and, and he
00:51:05.960
made a comment about how, um, the, the number of victims since the end of apartheid has simply increased,
00:51:14.160
um, along with the sense of entitlement and hatred towards minorities. And, and for saying that,
00:51:20.540
not even mentioning black people, but just simply talking about the sense of entitlement,
00:51:26.620
he, he was suspended from his job as well. Um, there was a, a high court judge. I found this
00:51:33.540
very interesting. Um, she, she talks about rape culture. Um, Mabel, right? Mabel Jansen. Yeah,
0.86
00:51:39.920
Mabel Jansen. Yeah, I remember that. She, she's a high court judge. So if anyone should know what
00:51:44.540
she's talking about, it would be her. She's the one who actually has to adjudicate these sorts of
00:51:50.260
cases. They actually come before her. She's the one that has to hear the details of, of all the,
00:51:56.740
these child rape cases. And I mean, South Africa has got, if not the highest, then one of the highest
00:52:02.660
rape rates in the world. Um, and, and you, you cannot get away from the fact that, that this is,
00:52:11.680
Zulu culture has got to be too painful part of this because our, the majority of our population is
00:52:18.320
Zulu city. You have to talk about the cultural aspects of this. And, and she, she did that. She
00:52:23.400
was simply trying to bring attention to, um, the, the cultural aspects of, of rape. And I mean,
00:52:34.160
it must be very harrowing to, as a judge to have to see the, and, you know, hear about the details of
00:52:39.700
these cases day in and day out. And she was absolutely condemned in the media as being the
0.97
00:52:44.980
worst kind of racist. Um, and, and. Yeah, it's just unbelievable. I mean, she's a judge. She
1.00
00:52:53.240
hears and sees and knows it's the truth. And, but no, you can't, you can't say, you can't say what's
00:52:59.120
in front of your face. You can't say the truth. I mean, this is leftist totalitarianism. This is what
00:53:04.000
it is. Yeah, absolutely. And what I thought was interesting was that she didn't even, even seem
0.97
00:53:10.580
so concerned about, um, you know, the, the consequences to herself. Um, she, what, what
00:53:18.540
she was concerned about was that instead of spending all this energy and labeling her as a racist,
0.72
00:53:23.520
the country should address, um, the issue of protecting women and children that that's where
00:53:31.040
the, you know, she made the point, that's where your energy should be going. Why are you so concerned
00:53:34.740
about outing me as a racist when I'm drawing attention to a much bigger issue? And that was
00:53:40.860
what was for me shocking. Yeah. All the feminists are quiet all of a sudden, right? Yeah. It's on,
00:53:47.380
on the issue of race. It's like a Trump's every other, every other issue. People can be raped.
1.00
00:53:54.000
Children can be raped. Babies can be raised, raped, but let you mention one thing about, um,
0.99
00:54:00.640
about it being a black cultural problem and, and you're the bad person. And she, and she's a judge
0.99
00:54:08.240
who's had, who's put many of these rapists away. And yet she was the one that was vilified. I just,
00:54:13.400
I thought it was horrific. I really did. But, um, yeah, there, she, she's not the only one who's,
00:54:21.380
um, as I say, these, these aren't the, the only people who've been vilified in the social media.
00:54:26.400
I could go on and on. Another one I wanted to mention, just because he has ties to, um,
00:54:31.620
Solidaritate, which is that, um, organization I spoke about earlier was Steve Hoffmeyer,
00:54:37.240
who's a, a South African singer. He's pretty well known. Um, and he has, his reputation has virtually
00:54:45.500
been shot to hell. Um, he's, he's been kind of stereotyped as, as the worst racist you can,
00:54:54.420
you can get to simply for being an Afrikaans nationalist and for coming out and saying that
00:55:00.120
he's an Afrikaans nationalist. Um, and, and for saying, I think the comment that he made was, um,
00:55:07.180
that he's yet to meet a white person who would rape a black person. Yeah. It just doesn't happen.
0.99
00:55:18.280
It doesn't happen. And, and he's, it's, it's, it's truthful. It's not racist to say that because
00:55:24.460
it's truthful. It doesn't, it doesn't, it's virtually non-existent. And he said he, as far
00:55:31.800
as he can see, you don't have white kids climbing over fences of black people's houses to, to go in
0.97
00:55:39.600
and, and, and threaten them. It just doesn't happen. But, but yeah, he's been now, I read, um,
0.97
00:55:46.720
aside from being branded a terrible racist in the media, he, he's been prevented from
00:55:51.000
performing at, at many venues for saying these things. What's his name again? So we can help
00:55:55.660
support him and check out his music. Oh, Steve Hoffmayer. Um, yeah, yeah, he's, he's, and he,
00:56:03.520
and he's come out and said that he doesn't have anything against black people. He's he, what he's,
00:56:09.540
what he's for really is the preservation of his own culture. Exactly. That's what all nationalists are
00:56:15.540
about, you know, we're actually about preserving human biodiversity, not about mixing it all up
00:56:20.460
and blending it all into the same nothingness. Yeah. And, and I, you know, when I read some of
00:56:27.080
the things that he says, I, I, I feel for him and, and I'm half Afrikaans. So I, a part of me kind of,
00:56:34.180
kind of like really sort of feels this yearning as well for a culture that's dying out. And,
00:56:41.940
and I read one article which, which is written by a black person who interviewed him. Um, and where
00:56:48.200
Steve was talking about, you know, his heritage and, um, how he's trying to preserve, um, the Afrikaans
00:56:57.640
language and culture. And, um, this, this black journalist who, who was interviewing him called
00:57:05.160
him a dodo, um, as in, you know, something which is going extinct. And I thought that was so telling,
00:57:11.160
you know, we talk about cultures going extinct, European cultures that are going extinct. And
00:57:16.260
it was said in such a mocking tone, like, well, he must just, the Afrikaans people must just kind
00:57:23.400
of sit back and await their own demise, um, because they're about to go extinct. And I just,
00:57:29.200
I thought that was really, you know, terrible. Yeah. I mean, they just openly hate us,
00:57:35.120
these anti-whites and rejoice and, and push for our extinction. And that's not hateful. That's not
0.97
00:57:41.280
racist. I mean, you have to be blind to not see how hateful and racist that is.
00:57:46.340
Well, exactly. I mean, what kind of a, what kind of a person kind of looks at someone who's
00:57:53.280
trying to preserve their heritage and culture, not actually harming anyone else in the process
00:57:59.340
and, and kind of calls them a dodo who's about to become extinct and, and kind of sort of chuckles
00:58:08.680
to themselves as if to say, oh, you know, you, you poor deluded Afrikaans person, you, you don't
0.99
00:58:16.520
realize how obsolete you're becoming. And of course it's hateful. It's, it's, it's disgusting. I,
0.93
00:58:26.200
I'm, it makes me a shame to be South African now. I was always so proud to be South African, but I'm,
00:58:30.560
I don't feel proud these days. I, I mean, I'm proud to, to be part of my, you know, part of my own
00:58:38.620
culture, but I, you know, I, it, when, when, when a, when a group such an, an Afrikaans is a
00:58:47.180
legitimate culture and it's on its own. And when they want to stand up and sort of have a bit of
00:58:52.880
pride in their heritage and history, um, and, and they're told that they can't, I mean, that's,
00:59:00.040
it's, it's unjust. It's a shocking injustice as far as I'm concerned.
00:59:03.100
It is. But at the end of the day, they're, they're going to have to have the willpower
00:59:06.300
and the drive and the fight to want to survive and continue on. I mean, if they don't have that,
00:59:12.260
then I'm sorry, you're not going to, you're not going to continue. It's a sad truth.
00:59:16.940
Yeah, it's, it's absolutely true. It's, it's very sad, but you're absolutely right. No one is going
00:59:21.760
to save them if they won't save themselves. And that's true for all of us.
00:59:26.740
Well, Claire, I want to thank you for your time today. It's been a really interesting eyeopening hour.
00:59:31.620
So thank you so much. I know it's, uh, tough to come on and talk about some of these things
00:59:36.000
because you can get in trouble, but I really appreciate it.
00:59:39.140
No, it's been absolutely fantastic, Lana. Thanks so much for having me.
00:59:43.560
Remember to check out the Radio 314 archives and search for all my shows about South Africa
00:59:48.580
if you want to hear more about South Africa. And be sure to watch our YouTube channel as we have
00:59:52.620
two live streams next week. We're covering the final presidential debate on Wednesday the 19th
00:59:57.760
with special guests. And on Monday, we have a surprise live stream. Visit redice.tv for all
01:00:03.640
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01:00:08.100
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01:00:19.140
I'll be back with an interesting show on how the gods have fled. What did Nietzsche mean by
01:00:24.140
God is Dead? Lots to tune into next week. Have a good night.