On this episode of the Red Ice Radio Network's Red Ice Talk Show, host Alex Blumberg sits down with writer and activist Jack Rollins to discuss masculinity, violence, and tribalism. Jack is an advocate for the resurgence of tribalism and masculine virtue. He s also known for his criticisms of feminism and gay culture.
00:01:58.400Clearly, moral and ethical arguments, reason, emotion, and compassion are not going to remove crooks, invaders, and traitors from our nations.
00:03:14.080So I just think it's been such a we've been so encouraged to go the other way.
00:03:20.260I mean, I don't know that our primal instincts are not necessarily there.
00:03:23.360I think it's I think it's easier in our society where we don't have to worry about survival or protection or anything like that to just rely on the government for everything and not really worry about what other men think.
00:03:37.480And as I've often said, it's it's really easy to be an alpha in a pack of one.
00:03:44.640You know, I think I think it's easy for men to convince themselves that they're better than they are if they don't have to interact with other men on a private private level.
00:03:53.440Well, Zionist Jews sure know the way of the gang, clearly, whereas European men have become, yeah, like you were saying earlier, maybe too passive, nonviolent or too nice.
00:04:03.560And it's amazing that men and women have gone from pagan warriors to these compliant state servants.
00:04:09.460And I know this has gradually happened over time.
00:04:11.260But in your view, how do men begin to bring back that tribal warrior?
00:04:15.020Well, that's something I'm thinking about a lot right now in terms of I think because white men built all of these Western nation states, I think we still believe that they're ours.
00:04:32.060And so that that is our tribe to a certain extent.
00:04:35.960And I don't think that that is true anymore.
00:04:37.980And I think that other people certainly, you know, whether it's, you know, bankers or whatever, run actually run the countries and, you know, politicians who are really just going to serve voters and people who are giving them the most money.
00:04:51.440But I think, you know, American men and probably men throughout Europe still think of themselves as being highly invested in this society.
00:05:00.640And it's it's their society, whereas I don't really think that's the case anymore.
00:05:04.360And I think that's that's part of the disconnect there.
00:05:07.980Well, thinking in terms of the state, people talk about, you know, fighting corruption through nonviolent means.
00:05:13.600But is that possible when the state itself is using violence to hold some sort of order?
00:05:20.180Well, I mean, all states are coercive by their their nature.
00:05:24.880And it just it's just, again, whether we're invested as we feel like we're members of the state or the enemies of the state.
00:05:32.860And no, I don't think that nonviolent means and I don't mean to say that the violent revolution is is a is a legitimate idea on the table right now just because of the technology involved.
00:05:49.240And that's kind of like just kind of playing in the hands of the media, because ultimately the media is going to turn that into whatever it wants to be, you know, and it'll kind of serve the corporate agenda.
00:05:59.120And so it's not really about violent revolution, but I think it's about it is about pulling away from the state.
00:06:05.160And instead of trying to change the state from the inside, undermine it from the inside.
00:06:11.640If you if you don't if we no longer consider ourselves part of it and really think of ourselves as really like almost another immigrant community that's living within the state, that's really not, you know, so many other groups are just like, oh, well, the state does this and here's what we're going to do.
00:06:27.780And we're not like emotionally connected to it.
00:06:33.740Just do what you're going to do and, you know, make friends with who you're going to make friends with and form your own support networks and stop worrying about, you know, these kind of staged melodramas of politics that we have all around us today.
00:06:47.380Now, I'd say men under the surface are probably more violent today since they're suppressed more than ever.
00:06:53.160And they're told by the government that they can't avenge themselves when they're wrong.
00:06:56.320So what do you think happens when men suppress violence?
00:06:58.800Because violence is a natural part of being human, right?
00:07:15.920Because they've been prohibited from being violent for so long that, you know, they still have the same urges.
00:07:20.380So they get channeled into things, whether they're, you know, action movies or video games.
00:07:24.040But these are all kind of spectator events.
00:07:27.320And so I just feel like they become they it's almost like a self-esteem problem.
00:07:33.400Like men, actually, they don't really have any experience.
00:07:37.000And this is kind of a part of the feminist critique of modern masculinity as well.
00:07:40.880I mean, some people I think Susan Faludi said this and stiff possibly is that because men have no opportunity to really prove themselves as men.
00:07:48.820And they have this kind of neurosis from from never having that opportunity.
00:08:12.580And the crisis of masculinity, when people want to talk about it, they it's always followed by how we're going to redefine masculinity for the modern age.
00:08:21.120But we're still, for the most part, the same humans that we were, you know, a few hundred years ago.
00:08:27.240And so redefining masculinity doesn't necessarily serve our needs.
00:08:31.560You know, if we just make it to whatever, you know, we should be.
00:08:34.520I mean, philosophy is about, you know, the world that you want, you know, the world that you think is best.
00:08:39.880It's not let's just adapt to whatever happens constantly and say that that's good.
00:08:45.040And I think that's kind of the aspect.
00:08:48.000That's kind of the attitude a lot of people have taken in the technological age because things have changed so quickly.
00:08:54.000They're like, well, this is how it is now.
00:09:11.400I think that if current trends continue, I don't really see, like I said, there's no real peaceful way out of this because really the state really, as it serves big corporations and everything, has every interest in keeping men contained and separate from each other.
00:09:31.140It has no interest in allowing them to become more masculine.
00:09:36.200You know, if you're trying to control men, why would you want them to be more masculine?
00:09:39.460You would want them to be as, you know, if you don't need them as soldiers and they don't need most of them as soldiers, you just want them to be compliant consumers.
00:09:47.500And I think, you know, women have been used to being taken care of more throughout history.
00:09:54.280And I think it's easier for them to look at the government and say, and this is the majority of women, not all women, but it's easier for them to look at the state paternally and say, oh, well, it's going to take care of us now.
00:10:07.460So, you know, and that's not always true, but I think women tend to think that way.
00:10:12.740And, you know, it is taking care of their interests more today than perhaps in the past.
00:10:18.100It's maybe not for the long-term good, but, you know, it's definitely not good for the long-term balance of men and women.
00:10:35.740And there's a primal drive to survive, but it seems like people don't have that when there's a huge government involved anymore, which is a travesty.
00:10:44.060Yeah, well, then it's just really about pleasure-seeking and, you know, what makes me happy today.
00:10:51.200Long-term planning, guys, it goes out the window.
00:10:54.540And, yeah, there's no need for heroism or any kind of real endeavor.
00:11:01.820So do you say, do you think that strength, courage, mastery, and honor, is that an important part of being a man?
00:11:08.760I think that's how men judge each other, even if they're not trying to.
00:11:13.560And that's why I use those virtues in my book.
00:11:17.700That's what I was looking for when I wrote The Way of Men.
00:11:20.840I was looking for kind of a universal definition of masculinity that describes what men are talking about when they look at one guy and they see, they understand that he's manlier than that guy.
00:11:37.380You know, what are their criteria that we're judging by?
00:11:39.900And my criteria were strength, courage, mastery, and honor, because I think those are the things that men needed from each other in their survival scenario.
00:13:29.780The same thing with, in the West, there's this, you know, it's a little bit more radical, most people don't know about it, but people say cisgender, you know, which is someone who, you know, conforms to the gender stereotypes that are more traditional.
00:13:43.080And so they'll call, you know, men who are, you know, more masculine, cisgender men.
00:13:49.060Well, of course, cisgender, that has kind of sissy built into it.
00:13:58.900The gender neutral is never really, the idea that women are going to become more masculine is kind of implied.
00:14:05.880But the important thing, I think, to most people is to tame men.
00:14:12.220And I think that that's why, you know, you see so many couples, it's so much rarer for you to find a pair of parents who have decided that their kid is transgender when they're five.
00:14:23.940You know, it's usually a guy who they've decided, oh, he picked up a dress once, therefore he's transgender.
00:14:57.580You know, they wanted their men to be men.
00:15:00.040I mean, I even say this, I joke about it with my mom because, you know, we have, you know, Facebook and things that we didn't have years and years ago.
00:15:07.420And, you know, I'm, you know, I'm almost 40 years old and my mom's not allowed on my Facebook because she'll say things like, like, be careful, you're going to hurt yourself if I put a picture of myself lifting something or whatever.
00:15:18.980And I'm like, Mom, would you have said that to your father, you know, as a 40-year-old man?
00:15:46.400The other day I was reading about the Vikings and basically if you give a man a gift in that day, which could be interpreted as feminine, was an insult.
00:15:57.520So they, they were pretty masculine, those Vikings, you know, and then in, in today in Sweden, for example, just the other week, another young girl was, she was gang raped by a pack of Muslims.
00:16:07.480And my first question was, well, where's the dad and the brother and what are they going to do to make this right?
00:16:12.180Because if this happened in pre-Christian days, the father would simply just go over there and kill the guy, right?
00:16:17.200But now the power to war and avenge has been taken from men.
00:16:20.280So isn't it a primal drive for a man to want to deal with his enemy?
00:16:45.240And it's becomes very perverse because really you have all these people saying, it's like a, it's like a mob.
00:16:51.120Like you see the medieval mobs and whatever, like, oh, you know, like kill this person, you know, these shouting for this person's death.
00:16:58.760We kind of do that now instead of this personal thing where, you know, a father, you know, should be able to seek vengeance for his, his child.
00:17:08.720You know, I think that's right and that's natural and it's not this kind of proxy violence where they have some person far away take care of the problem.
00:17:17.840Like this person is just kind of garbage and we'll just make this problem go, you know, we, I think, you know, that kind of deprives them of that retribution.
00:17:27.060And I understand, obviously, that creates a lot of chaos when you have, you know, kind of vengeance is driving force in culture.
00:17:35.160But I don't know, I think proxy violence is kind of perverse.
00:17:38.800Yeah, because I think if we didn't have that, if we didn't have government intervening, there would be a natural order that would just happen over time.
00:17:50.760And, you know, what, the other thing that was interesting to me as I was reading through some of those is that there's less execution and more banishment.
00:17:59.760They're like, you know, communities will be like, you know, we just don't want you here.
00:18:03.060You create too much, too many problems.
00:18:05.400You've, you've gotten in too many fights.
00:18:13.040And rather than keeping these guys in these prisons where they just turn into worse criminals for, you know, 30, 40 years and then finally executing them or just keeping them a prison for life and they come kind of mastermind and run gangs and all kinds of stuff.
00:18:29.300You know, it's, it's, it's kind of, it's, it's a bad system that kind of perpetuates itself.
00:18:33.920And then the other thing that contributes, which I'm really sick and tired of, you know, new agers and also Christians who go on about turning the other cheek or giving it to the universe when someone wrongs you.
00:18:43.760Do you think, do you think religion, including new age ideology have contributed to taming the man?
00:18:52.280I mean, I think that, and I know I have a lot of Christian readers too, and that's, you know, and they look really hard for the, like the masculinity and Christianity.
00:19:02.780And of course there have been many, you know, obviously the crusaders were not to be trifled with and so forth, but, you know, they're great knights that were all Christian and so forth.
00:19:11.660But I do think there's something in, in that religion that kind of dampens some of these spirits that we're talking about in terms of, you know, just kind of masculine vigor.
00:19:24.380I think there's a lot of submission in Christianity and, and also in some of these Far Eastern religions, because if you look at a lot of them, they come from big caste systems.
00:19:36.100You know, like if you think of like, you know, everybody loves Indian religion and Indian culture and, you know, they have this giant caste system where people are supposed to know their place and stay there forever.
00:19:48.320So of course there's kind of a huge submission element to it, you know, and kind of, you know, Islam, I don't know about the caste part of Islam, but I know that there's a huge, obviously focus on submission, even though that's not the way it's playing out right now.
00:20:03.060It seems like men do what they want and what they're allowed to do, no matter what the religion is.
00:20:08.740But, you know, I do think it contributes to the way we talk about violence and so forth.
00:20:15.480And then today in Western countries, for example, should you just turn the other cheek when La Rasa is screaming from the streets about killing the gringo or in Europe when Islamic extremists are demanding Sharia law?
00:20:26.100I mean, is nonviolence going to sort this out?
00:20:28.600Or, I mean, the only way I see it sorting out eventually is going to be some sort of violence.
00:20:34.780Well, yeah, I mean, it's, well, it's going to sort itself out in terms of, I mean, each country will have its own kind of thing.
00:20:44.100Because if we're looking at, like, even the problems in Europe, you have, like, Muslims, which is kind of a different problem from Mexicans.
00:20:52.660You know, in many cases, the Mexicans who are in America are not the same as, they're not, certainly not as angry as the Muslims.
00:21:00.620And they're not blowing themselves up in trains.
00:21:03.580But I think that, you know, as the white population in these places is replaced and they become a minority group, then the narrative kind of changes.
00:21:15.860And I think that's what's going to happen no matter what.
00:21:19.940At this point, I mean, I think we're far enough along that road is that white people are going to become a minority in a lot of these places.
00:21:26.080And then that'll be interesting in the way that it changes the entire narrative.
00:21:31.940Because you can only, you know, when white people are only 20% of a population in an area, you can't really call them the majority anymore.
00:21:39.440And you can't really blame all the problems on them.
00:21:42.240You know, and I think that right now we're still at a place where that's still possible for people to do.
00:22:14.880Yeah, well, in your book, The Way of Men, you wrote, if you're going to survive, your group will need protection from predators, animal, human, alien, or undead.
00:22:22.720And many guys write us and they complain that they don't have a brotherhood or a like-minded tribe.
00:22:27.020And it's apparent that this is becoming necessary in these times for us Europeans.
00:22:33.560How do they start getting a brotherhood going?
00:22:36.260It's a tough thing because, you know, like I said, there are a lot of forces in our society that want us to keep us apart.
00:22:42.780I mean, it's even in terms of like working hours and things like that.
00:22:46.560I mean, we only have so much time on the day.
00:22:49.000And, but I really feel like the, it is possible.
00:22:52.920I wrote an article recently called Age of Wolves about a group in America that is kind of doing that, actually in Virginia.
00:23:00.180That's kind of formed its tribe and there are women involved too.
00:23:05.520And they have, they have kind of their own role in the tribe, but there's also, you know, it's kind of a group of men that gathers once a month.
00:23:12.900And, you know, it's kind of building that kind of brotherhood.
00:23:15.620They've been doing it for years and years.
00:23:18.200And so I'd encourage anyone to read that article.
00:23:21.360You know, if they're, even if they're not interested in the specifics of that particular group, the model is there.
00:23:28.660You know, I also did a podcast with a guy where he talked about how he started it.
00:23:34.540So, I mean, you know, it's, it's a tricky thing.
00:23:36.640It's hard to get guys to put down what they're doing.
00:23:38.640And it's certainly hard, the harder to get them to swear to a brotherhood because that's a serious deal.
00:23:44.380You know, that's not like they're used to, we're used to having these disposable cultural things that we're involved in that we can just go from one movement to the other.
00:23:53.160And, you know, belonging to, you know, an ideology is just really, you know, as much as difference as liking a different Facebook page.
00:24:00.480You know, we're not, you know, deep into anything.
00:24:03.940And, you know, a serious brotherhood is a commitment.
00:24:07.360And, you know, I think men have to think about if they're, if they really say they want this kind of brotherhood, they have to be really willing to commit to a brotherhood and not just commit to a brotherhood that they're in charge of.
00:24:19.280You know, everybody wants to be the chief, but, you know, you kind of need everybody to be, you know, flexible enough that they're not necessarily the leader all the time.
00:24:29.820I think our ancient ancestors in pre-Christian times, they had a brotherhood.
00:24:42.440And I think that as that comes out more and more, I think people will start forming their brotherhoods and their sisterhoods, especially if whites are becoming minorities in their own lands.
00:24:51.080At that point, it's about, you know, ethnic survival.
00:24:56.520And I think that they should, you know, do anything that they can.
00:24:59.380So I think one of the major points that, you know, one of the starting points is a lot of people do now, they discuss political ideas and so forth online.
00:25:09.520And, you know, we get caught up online, but I really have met guys who over years on a message board or something have basically created a small culture.
00:25:20.740You know, the start of, they have all these inside jokes and they have all, and that's really kind of where friendship starts.
00:25:26.200And so, you know, it's one thing, it's okay if you meet people online.
00:25:29.260The next step is you got to, you have, it's proximity.
00:25:32.260You really have to get these groups of people close together because that's when the next level of this kind of group formation happens.
00:25:39.480You can talk about groups all day long, but until you guys have a bunch of guys who are in the same room often enough, you really don't have much of anything.
00:26:20.600I think the way that our society is programmed to this point, I think we do need to kind of step back a notch.
00:26:26.640I don't necessarily mean that we have to go down to stone tools or anything again, but I do think that we need to break away from the modern world.
00:26:40.020And I do think that there needs to be some kind of collapse to help that, but maybe we can help the collapse.
00:26:46.540You know, maybe we can, by refusing to invest in our society and being, becoming separate from it, you know, but kind of living our own lives to our best of our ability within these societies.
00:27:02.580You know, hopefully we can contribute to the, just a kind of hollow state, a lack of faith in the government to the point where it just becomes this meaningless thing and real change can start to happen.
00:27:15.520Yeah, it's funny you brought up technology because a lot of times when you talk about paganism or returning to what's natural or nature, people automatically think that we're going to have an ox plowing the field.
00:27:24.960You know, that's not what we're talking about because we might need those robots to protect our borders, you know?
00:27:30.600You know, we might, it's just, it's just an issue of marrying the two.
00:27:34.460I mean, maybe more Mad Max, you know, guys, you know how to operate cars.
00:27:37.980But, I mean, because we're never, we're never going to go back to that time period unless there's like some tremendous calamity.
00:27:45.700But I think we can take ideas from the past and move them into the future.
00:27:50.060There's that great book, Archeofuturism.
00:27:53.540And I really like that, that concept in the sense of like taking good ideas from the past, good things that we have now, marrying them and creating something new, not doing a kind of historical reenactment.
00:28:47.380You know, it's been proven that it drops like when your sports team loses.
00:28:51.580Well, if you're losing every day, what do you think that that does to your testosterone?
00:28:56.780You know, these guys are, you know, these little boys who are going to school and being told that they're bad because they're boys and, you know, not giving, not being allowed to play, not being allowed to do all the things that boys do.
00:29:07.420I mean, think of how that affects their testosterone, like, as they get older.
00:29:12.420I mean, there's just so many things that are kind of, you know, you know, the amount of soy in our diets.
00:29:18.340You know, that's, you know, there's so many things that are influencing testosterone for the negative.
00:29:22.800And there are a lot of guys out there who are actually trying to get around that.
00:29:27.880I know a lot of guys who won't eat soy and a lot of guys who won't drink, you know, things out of plastic if they can avoid it.
00:29:37.100And, you know, who are trying to take steps in a variety of ways to kind of increase their testosterone and get back what they've kind of been robbed of.
00:29:45.780But, you know, who knows how much of it is in just the water.
00:29:49.940Yeah, you have to try everywhere you can in eating organic foods.
00:29:53.760And there are certain foods that are good.
00:32:19.280I mean, whether it's, you know, that's caused by hormones or just obesity is even hard to tell because, you know, obesity causes then, you know, higher estrogen in men.
00:32:29.260So, you know, I mean, there's definitely a problem.
00:32:33.720And if you look at some of the other races, I mean, that are more similar, you can see maybe how like civilization has that kind of impact.
00:32:43.660When you don't have a big frontier and you don't have this kind of struggle in life, you know, if you think about the, like the Asians, I mean, Asians, there's a smaller difference between the males and females, you know, even facially, hair wise, all those things.
00:33:01.920And I wonder, you know, how much of that has to do with long-term submission.
00:33:11.000Well, I saw this other study that infant boys are being born with smaller penises, and there's more occurrences of something called a buried penis.
00:33:20.580So, that's a bummer for the younger generations.
00:33:23.520Oh, yeah, that certainly sounds unfortunate.
00:35:52.500And so I think that I've seen a lot of guys who, as they get to that age and they're ready to settle down, they realize that either the women already have like two or three kids that are illegitimate or whatever.
00:36:03.800Or they just don't, you know, these women are just not the kind of woman you'd want to be, have be mothers.
00:36:10.680Yeah, young women are malleable as wax.
00:36:14.140And, unfortunately, today, many women, unlike the Shieldmans of the past, are more susceptible to being molded by external forces.
00:36:20.640And all they want is to fit in and be popular.
00:36:23.300So if that means sleeping around, they'll do it.
00:36:25.160If that means doing lots of drugs, they'll do it.
00:36:27.180Or if that means having biracial kids, they'll do it.
00:36:30.080Is it a lack of strong fathers and mothers in their lives?
00:36:32.700Or is it about climbing the social ladder so their children will rank higher in society?
00:36:37.020Or are women just more immature these days?
00:36:39.400And then with entertainment, media, and education pumping nonsense into their heads, it's a mess out there.
00:36:45.320I mean, it's definitely, the sexes have definitely come to a place where they're kind of, you know, at a war, not in a melodramatic way, but just this kind of standstill where it's like women are going off and, you know, hanging out with their girlfriends in bars and having cocktails and doing their thing.
00:37:01.100And men are kind of over here doing the other thing.
00:37:03.180And they really don't have any reason to get together, you know.
00:37:07.260But at the same time, men don't have any private male spaces, aside from their own bedrooms.
00:37:13.360You know, they don't have any places where men are allowed to get together because then, you know, just like if, you know, white people get together, you know, they're Nazis.
00:37:30.200I think that one of the things that men need to do is start saying no.
00:37:34.500And, you know, it's easy for me to say this, but, you know, I think other guys, you know, I think it's, they get scared off by that.
00:37:42.780And, you know, they've been taught all their lives that the worst thing that you could be told that you are is like a racist or a sexist.
00:37:50.000And so, you know, instead of, you know, and they'll be challenged on that and they'll start making arguments like, I'm not a sexist or I'm not a racist because...
00:38:00.200When the real argument should be, I am a sexist because...
00:38:14.900And I think, you know, unfortunately, as long as you allow feminists to frame that debate, then men are already lost.
00:38:24.580You know, don't take a defensive position.
00:38:26.440And then in some ways, I feel, well, from a European perspective, I think some of the men's movement, they're not hard enough because they don't touch the political stuff of, you know, how white males, that demographic is being treated worse than the others.
00:38:40.440I wish that they would be a little louder and take some hits as well.
00:38:43.340I mean, they get called sexist, but, you know, who cares if someone calls you a racist?
00:38:46.540It's just a word, you know, who cares?
00:38:49.020Yeah, and I think that it is because those words are stinging less than they used to.
00:38:53.620I think that the media is becoming more and more hysterical in the way that they just ruin everyone who says anything.
00:39:05.460I mean, there used to be kind of like, well, he didn't really mean that.
00:39:08.360They'd get both sides and whatever, and now they just don't do that.
00:39:11.360There was a guy the other day, a black man, actually, on ESPN, I think.
00:39:16.000Like, I didn't hear the whole clip, but basically the idea is that he said something like women should not do things to invite abuse.
00:39:33.700And, you know, it's not like he said something horrible about women, but just the idea that women would be at all responsible for anything that happens to them that's negative from men is an unacceptable idea.
00:39:44.320And so I think more and more people, more and more men especially, are just looking at this and being like, this is not even something that is legitimate at all.
00:39:53.140I love how feminism, it never shows the shadow side of women.
00:40:09.200And, you know, like, you know, women have their own thing.
00:40:11.140I mean, if you look at the way that gods and goddesses were portrayed, I always think of Hera, you know, and, you know, her, you know, as Zeus's wife, you know, just, you know, she was devious.
00:40:24.280She was always getting back at him and going back and forth.
00:40:26.740And you can just kind of see them bickering like an old, an old couple.
00:40:29.860And, you know, men and women have always had that kind of, you know, combative relationship in many ways.
00:40:38.700You know, like, you know, we're different enough that we don't always understand each other.
00:40:43.780And, you know, men, women, women use their wiles to manipulate men a little bit.
00:41:18.200I mean, both my sisters are happily married.
00:41:20.580And, you know, they seem to have pretty good relationships with their husband.
00:41:23.120I mean, obviously, there is the sex push and pull always, you know, like between men and women of what they want, what one side wants and the other side wants.
00:41:49.620So, what do you think it's like for the younger generations of guys growing up today?
00:41:54.740Is it, are they confused today on what it is to be a man or how to become a man?
00:41:59.780They don't even begin to know how to define it.
00:42:01.900Yeah, no, they, I think that most men, you know, they, they get stuff from the movies.
00:42:08.360They, a lot of them don't even have any kind of relationship with their fathers.
00:42:11.340Um, and when they do, you know, their, their idea of what masculinity is allowed to be has already been programmed.
00:42:19.720I mean, if they've gone through a public school system, they've already been told what kind of man they're allowed to be and what they're allowed to say.
00:42:27.060And, uh, so I think they do come to it, uh, you know, very confused.
00:42:31.860They come to adulthood and, uh, you know, I, I think that, you know, they're used to growing up in a world where, uh, masculinity is in scare quotes all the time.
00:42:42.460You know, you have, if you say manly, you have to put it in quotation marks.
00:42:45.280So no one, everybody knows that you're not really serious about it, you know, and they're kind of making fun of it.
00:42:54.500Uh, I mean, I think that, you know, I think that young men are looking for that cause they realize that something's wrong at a certain point.
00:43:01.680And, uh, that's when I think they get involved in many times, uh, some of the like pickup artist, uh, scenes and, you know, they start to realize that they've been told really a line of bullshit about women.
00:43:12.460And, uh, you know, they try to figure out, well, what, what do women really want?
00:43:18.280And unfortunately that's kind of swings too far the other way sometimes.
00:43:21.960But, uh, you know, that's what happens with culture.
00:43:24.400You know, someone told me the other day, I'm kind of a, like, uh, I'm kind of a necessary overreaction.
00:43:40.640I wouldn't say that I'm actually a barbarian sitting here with a headset on, uh, you know, walking around my office.
00:43:47.500But, uh, you know, I mean, I think I like the idea of the barbarian and that's what I talked about in one of my speeches.
00:43:53.380And that's kind of what I want to write about next in terms of a book is, uh, the idea of us separating ourselves from the state and becoming stateless.
00:44:01.880Because barbarian, the idea of a barbarian is really just a kind of a foreigner, uh, you know, someone that the state doesn't recognize because their ideas and their ways and their customs are, are alien.
00:44:12.600And I think that, you know, I think in order for us to become stateless, you know, we have to have different cultures and that, you know, I, I'm a big fan of the idea of, you know, the, uh, you know, reinvigorating, uh, you know, these, uh, Northern European, uh, heathen cultures.
00:44:35.060I think that, you know, a lot of guys come to me and they want to, they want to second guess all that and make it into like something modern and new or whatever.
00:44:43.720But I know, and you can, you can bring it into the future, like I said, but I think that, you know, you need something to start with.
00:44:51.720And I think that maybe that's our starting point.
00:44:54.480What are some of the aspects of the heathen culture that really jump out at you?
00:44:59.340Well, I like their gods a lot better than Christianity.
00:45:02.000You know, I mean, they just feel much more natural to me, uh, you know, much more admirable.
00:45:08.840I mean, uh, I mean, they're heroic, but also doomed gods.
00:45:12.000And I think that's a great, uh, that's a great kind of metaphor for where we're at.
00:45:17.740You know, we're, you know, in Ragnarok possibly, you know, that we're, we're in this kind of doomed age.
00:45:25.140And, you know, so to see these people who know that their fate, they're not immortal.
00:45:30.660You know, they, they know that they have this fate, you know, that, uh, you know, that they're gonna, but they're gonna die in combat anyway.
00:45:39.480And I think that that's, you know, something that, you know, is very inspiring to me.
00:46:07.840I don't, I just, we, we don't need another 2000 years of that.
00:46:10.540Um, you know, I just, you know, I'd rather, you know, if we're gonna, if we're gonna talk about gods, I'd rather have ones that are, you know, you know, interested in strength and heroism and, uh, you know, fertility and vitality rather than, uh, kind of this eternal kind of whiny self-sacrifice.
00:46:41.820Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, I don't think, Satanists really don't take it seriously either.
00:46:45.800I always tell people it's kind of theatrical atheism, uh, you know, for people who like horror movies.
00:46:52.160Uh, it's, uh, the Church of Satan, it really is kind of an atheistic religion.
00:46:57.560But what I really took away from it that I liked, um, I, I distanced myself from it because it is kind of that culture of me, uh, rather.
00:47:06.320And when I started writing about honor, I didn't feel like I could be associated with something like that anymore because, you know, honor is about self-sacrifice.
00:47:15.000So, you know, I was involved with the Church of Satan, but, uh, one of the ideas that I took away from it that I really liked was the idea that we're still programmed for ritual and that we're still animals.
00:47:27.560And, uh, that, you know, we should have rituals that are relevant for our lives and that, that help us, uh, and that, uh, you know, kind of take us somewhere different.
00:47:40.340And, uh, you know, whereas for Satanism, that was all kind of like this kind of evil demonic thing for people who like that kind of thing.
00:47:48.420But I think in many ways that kind of informs my approach to, uh, you know, more Northern religions is that, uh, let's look at these gods and like, you know, like I said, pick the ones you like, you know, pick the ones that are yours.
00:48:04.160And, uh, you know, pick the ones that, uh, have, have attributes that you want to model yourself after and that can kind of bring you up in this world.
00:48:13.720Um, instead of always focusing on what's going to happen when you're dead.
00:48:17.820I especially like a lot of the Nordic deities, you can pick one up and if they don't do something for you, you can denounce them and move on to the next one.
00:48:25.340This is like, this guy didn't do anything for me.
00:48:31.680If you don't help me, then to hell with you.
00:48:34.300Uh, but yeah, no, I mean, it's, I do, I did like that about Satanism and that's, and it seems like, you know, as much as people, you know, some people, they would raise an eyebrow about that, but it seems like that's kind of a natural pathway for a lot of people who are moving from Christianity to something else.
00:48:51.720It's kind of a, a youthful rebellion, kind of a silly religion that, you know, it doesn't really, people don't really stay involved with for very long.
00:48:59.820Uh, but, uh, you know, like I think Michael Moynihan is a good example.
00:49:03.160He was involved with the church of Satan and then went on to be involved with the magazine tier and had blood access and all these things that are, um, very Northern inspired and Germanic.
00:49:14.380So, I mean, I think that it seems like a lot of people go through that phase.
00:49:18.040It's like kind of somewhere where death metal is.
00:49:25.960You mentioned you felt that Satanism was a natural rebellion after Christianity.
00:49:29.660And I can get that because in Christianity, you're told to constantly be selfless, self-sacrifice and surrender to the man in the sky.
00:49:36.000You basically have no self value and it erodes your personal identity.
00:49:39.120But on the flip side, Satanists are all about the self to the extreme.
00:49:43.060So I get why ex-Christians go that route, hoping to find their identity and self-worth again, because of course it's still in the paradigm of the Judaic mythology.
00:49:51.300But I think that to stop there, I mean, that's why, I mean, one could say that our individualistic culture in the West is, is Satanism enough.
00:49:59.860You know, it's, it's like this kind of daily show liberal culture where all, everything is about your own pleasure.
00:50:06.400I mean, that's kind of what Satanism is about.
00:50:08.700And so I think that to move beyond that, then you start thinking about tribe and, you know, not just yourself, but a tribe, you know, not, not your savior, but your, your, your people, your, your, your friends and your family and people you care about.
00:50:26.040I've been very anti-collectivist and I know Henrik, my husband has been too, but now we're like, wait a minute, our folk, how are we forgetting about the, our people?
00:50:36.000I mean, it's, it's, it's really cool to be individualistic when you're like 22 years old, but, uh, you know, it's like, uh, I think you, you need other people ultimately.
00:50:46.140Uh, like they say in the, uh, the, the planet of the apes movie that came out, uh, recently, you know, uh, one ape week, many apes strong, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the forces of modernity would love us all to stay in our little cubicles and our little houses and become like, you know, like, uh, the Japanese people who sleep in their, you know, corporations and then, you know, go home once a week or whatever.
00:51:13.220Or the company men, they would love us to, to be that way.
00:51:16.440Uh, cause you know, people like that have no friends.
00:51:18.780They're, they're really easy to control.
00:51:41.680And I think that, you know, it, it would be like not even just heathen white, but like this group of heathen whites and that group of, I mean, that's, I mean, it, it also could one, one gigantic movement is easy for a government to infiltrate and break.
00:51:58.360You know, that's easy for, I mean, that's, they've, they've been doing it for years.
00:52:03.580But, you know, if you have a bunch of different people just doing their own thing and, you know, they, you know, almost more of a cell model, somewhere between a cell and a tribe, you know, then you, then you have a lot going on.
00:52:20.360And that's kind of what I try to encourage is, you know, for these people, you know, there's a lot of people who are still into the, it's become really kind of fashionable almost in the far right.
00:52:29.640To get into Orthodox Christianity, which I find terribly boring and like nothing I'd want to be involved in at all.
00:52:36.680But, you know, those guys, if they're going to do that, they need to stop worrying about what pagans are doing and what other people are doing and just go, just go to their church, you know, go to church, start a church group, do your thing, you know, and the same thing with, you know, all the heathen groups and, you know, other groups, other ideologies, you know, modernity is such a big thing that we need everybody to be against it.
00:53:02.560I mean, you know, because even, even non-whites, because it can't just be white people.
00:53:06.420It has to be everybody, you know, so I still try to encourage like groups of other people, you know, whether they're Native Americans or, you know, Filipinos or whatever.
00:53:14.560It's like, find your tribe and, you know, break away from the state, undermine it.
00:53:56.420They'd rather have men that care about manliness than care about their entire identity has to do with their sexual orientation.
00:54:01.940And, you know, they're bigger and more important problems in the world.
00:54:07.000The gay movement is actually kind of ascended in a self-parody in the way that they really had all their legitimate goals.
00:54:16.840They achieved all of their legitimate goals.
00:54:19.980I mean, in the sense of like, you know, in the 70s, they did pick up guys in the park and put them in jail and call them sex offenders for the rest of their lives.
00:54:29.380I mean, they did do things that were cruel and unnecessary.
00:54:36.380And instead of integrating those people into society, they kind of turned them into people who hate society.
00:54:43.960It had a lot of do with Christianity, I think, as well.
00:54:46.720You know, it's kind of weird, you know, Judaic sexual neurosis.
00:54:52.160And, you know, it's over-concerned with what everybody's doing in their bedrooms all the time.
00:54:56.640And I think that, you know, unfortunately, you know, well, fortunately, I think that those real injustices were overcome.
00:55:06.940And now it's just an increase of like things that they want.
00:55:13.260You know, and it's interesting because, you know, like you have something like gay marriage.
00:55:18.840And, you know, those guys really had these relationships that were not involved with the state at all.
00:55:24.120And now they're, you know, they're campaigning all of a sudden to have this state involved in every aspect of their lives where it doesn't need to be at all.
00:55:34.000I mean, they were kind of freer than they want to be.
00:55:37.520You know, they want to have the state more involved in their lives.
00:55:39.900And that's really unfortunate because, you know, the state being involved in your life doesn't make it better.
00:55:44.280It just means that, you know, they have someone else to go after for money, you know, like when the banks have someone else to ask for money when you die.
00:55:56.220But unfortunately, it seems like the gay movement, like all, I think, movements in the way that politics works these days is that, you know, you have this organization that had kind of legitimate goals to start with, or at least, you know, something that was worth listening to.
00:56:14.000And then over time, it snowballs and runs away and, you know, it becomes self-perpetuating because these people still have jobs, you know, they have jobs in these movements.
00:56:26.180And once they achieve a goal, they don't just pack up and go home.
00:56:29.860They need something, they need the next thing to be angry about.
00:56:32.400And so they keep looking for the next thing.
00:56:34.660It's like the gay movement has now gotten to a point where it's really about transgenders.
00:57:06.940You know, and that's really, I think, part of the, it's caught on because in many ways it's part of that big feminist project that we're talking about, about kind of getting rid of all sex roles.
00:57:18.080And, you know, if you think about it, being transgender is basically making who you are, your whole identity, really a consumer choice.
00:57:25.840You know, you can buy the sex change and the hormones and so, oh, look, I'm a man now, I'm a woman now, you know, I can change whoever I want.
01:00:45.920So, as women, we should encourage our men to become strong, bold, and defiant on every front.
01:00:51.620Give them a reason to want to pick up that battle axe.
01:00:53.960You'll be amazed at how your relationship dynamic will become greater when he taps into his warrior side, which has been greatly suppressed in modern times.
01:01:02.500Men and women should be encouraging excellence from each other.
01:01:05.880And women, raise your sons and daughters to be strong-willed in their purpose, not the will of overlords who seek their genocide in the end.
01:01:13.000How you parent is a powerful tool, and we create either kings or slaves.
01:01:19.180On a completely different note, on the subject of hormone balance, I'd suggest all of you men and women listening to find a naturopath and go get a hormone panel done.
01:01:28.240You take the test kit home and collect saliva samples at specific times and then send it to a lab for testing.
01:01:34.160Don't be shocked to find high estrogen levels with all the estrogen mimickers present in our environment.
01:01:39.300But the good news is that you can get yourself balanced and you'll feel a huge difference.
01:01:43.760A naturopath can help you with this via supplements, food, exercise, and herbs.
01:01:47.800I feel this is highly important and everyone should test themselves.
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01:02:14.300Look out for more interviews and a couple movie TV reviews coming up.
01:02:18.680I hope you all have a pleasant day or evening.