Radio 3Fourteen - The Way of Men

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:00:30.000 This is Radio 314 on the Red Ice Radio Network.

00:01:00.000 And an advocate for the resurgence of tribalism and masculine virtue.

00:01:04.520 He's also known for his criticisms of feminism and gay culture.

00:01:08.120 Jack is a contributor to AlternativeRite.com, Countercurrents, Raid External, and The Spearhead.

00:01:14.140 We're going to discuss what is controversial these days.

00:01:17.000 Violence, masculinity, and tribalism.

00:01:20.220 For thousands of years, mankind has settled territories, disputes, and enforced laws through acts of violence.

00:01:26.400 Order demands violence.

00:01:28.160 Today, we resort to proxy violence.

00:01:30.500 If you are threatened with violence, you call a cop and ask him to do the violence on your behalf.

00:01:35.440 George Orwell wrote in his Notes on Nationalism that,

00:01:38.440 For the pacifist, the truth that those who abjure violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.

00:01:46.760 Is this contributing to sissy men who aren't courageous, bold, and settling their own battles? 0.84

00:01:51.760 Yes.

00:01:52.300 Is this a contributing factor as to why good men do nothing as their nations fall apart before their eyes?

00:01:58.000 Yes.

00:01:58.400 Clearly, moral and ethical arguments, reason, emotion, and compassion are not going to remove crooks, invaders, and traitors from our nations.

00:02:06.600 We'll discuss this and much more.

00:02:08.660 Welcome, Jack.

00:02:09.280 How are you?

00:02:10.680 I'm fine.

00:02:11.440 How are you?

00:02:11.920 Not too bad.

00:02:13.060 Well, I know it might seem odd to people that I'm interviewing a man on masculinity, but here's the thing.

00:02:18.120 From a woman's perspective, I want to see the return of the warrior, the Viking who takes care of business, 0.99

00:02:23.020 not this wussified liberal man we see today.

00:02:25.740 And I always get asked, why aren't more women a part of the European preservation movement? 0.97

00:02:29.940 And I always say, they will be once men drop their balls and pick up their swords because this is a primal attraction, wouldn't you say?

00:02:37.700 Well, absolutely.

00:02:38.800 I mean, I was actually having this discussion with a few friends of mine today.

00:02:43.200 And I think women do look for leadership in men.

00:02:47.360 And if men just look like they're a bunch of guys arguing about stuff on the Internet, there's not really much attraction there.

00:02:52.660 But, you know, if men build some kind of power base, then women will be like, oh, OK, I want to be a part of that. 0.98

00:02:58.160 Yeah.

00:02:58.500 Sad but true, guys.

00:03:00.760 Well, you've written about the way of men, which is the way of the gang.

00:03:03.880 But would you agree that white men in particular have lost that gang mentality?

00:03:07.500 They tend to be they tend to be more individualistic, whereas the other races are very group minded. 0.99

00:03:12.640 Well, I don't know if it's lost.

00:03:14.080 So I just think it's been such a we've been so encouraged to go the other way.

00:03:20.260 I mean, I don't know that our primal instincts are not necessarily there.

00:03:23.360 I think it's I think it's easier in our society where we don't have to worry about survival or protection or anything like that to just rely on the government for everything and not really worry about what other men think.

00:03:37.480 And as I've often said, it's it's really easy to be an alpha in a pack of one.

00:03:43.740 Oh, yeah.

00:03:44.640 You know, I think I think it's easy for men to convince themselves that they're better than they are if they don't have to interact with other men on a private private level.

00:03:53.440 Well, Zionist Jews sure know the way of the gang, clearly, whereas European men have become, yeah, like you were saying earlier, maybe too passive, nonviolent or too nice. 0.98

00:04:03.560 And it's amazing that men and women have gone from pagan warriors to these compliant state servants.

00:04:09.460 And I know this has gradually happened over time.

00:04:11.260 But in your view, how do men begin to bring back that tribal warrior?

00:04:15.020 Well, that's something I'm thinking about a lot right now in terms of I think because white men built all of these Western nation states, I think we still believe that they're ours. 0.71

00:04:32.060 And so that that is our tribe to a certain extent.

00:04:35.960 And I don't think that that is true anymore.

00:04:37.980 And I think that other people certainly, you know, whether it's, you know, bankers or whatever, run actually run the countries and, you know, politicians who are really just going to serve voters and people who are giving them the most money.

00:04:51.440 But I think, you know, American men and probably men throughout Europe still think of themselves as being highly invested in this society.

00:05:00.640 And it's it's their society, whereas I don't really think that's the case anymore.

00:05:04.360 And I think that's that's part of the disconnect there.

00:05:07.980 Well, thinking in terms of the state, people talk about, you know, fighting corruption through nonviolent means.

00:05:13.600 But is that possible when the state itself is using violence to hold some sort of order?

00:05:20.180 Well, I mean, all states are coercive by their their nature.

00:05:24.880 And it just it's just, again, whether we're invested as we feel like we're members of the state or the enemies of the state.

00:05:32.860 And no, I don't think that nonviolent means and I don't mean to say that the violent revolution is is a is a legitimate idea on the table right now just because of the technology involved.

00:05:46.620 I think that that's a foolish move.

00:05:49.240 And that's kind of like just kind of playing in the hands of the media, because ultimately the media is going to turn that into whatever it wants to be, you know, and it'll kind of serve the corporate agenda.

00:05:59.120 And so it's not really about violent revolution, but I think it's about it is about pulling away from the state.

00:06:05.160 And instead of trying to change the state from the inside, undermine it from the inside.

00:06:11.640 If you if you don't if we no longer consider ourselves part of it and really think of ourselves as really like almost another immigrant community that's living within the state, that's really not, you know, so many other groups are just like, oh, well, the state does this and here's what we're going to do.

00:06:27.780 And we're not like emotionally connected to it.

00:06:30.400 Yeah. Stop filling out those papers.

00:06:32.700 Yeah, exactly.

00:06:33.740 Just do what you're going to do and, you know, make friends with who you're going to make friends with and form your own support networks and stop worrying about, you know, these kind of staged melodramas of politics that we have all around us today.

00:06:47.380 Now, I'd say men under the surface are probably more violent today since they're suppressed more than ever.

00:06:53.160 And they're told by the government that they can't avenge themselves when they're wrong.

00:06:56.320 So what do you think happens when men suppress violence?

00:06:58.800 Because violence is a natural part of being human, right?

00:07:01.520 Oh, yeah.

00:07:03.240 No, absolutely.

00:07:04.180 I mean, you know, and I just think that they become withdrawn.

00:07:09.060 I mean, I wouldn't say that men are more violent today.

00:07:11.600 I think that they're they don't even know how to be violent.

00:07:15.360 Yeah, that's true.

00:07:15.920 Because they've been prohibited from being violent for so long that, you know, they still have the same urges.

00:07:20.380 So they get channeled into things, whether they're, you know, action movies or video games.

00:07:24.040 But these are all kind of spectator events.

00:07:27.320 And so I just feel like they become they it's almost like a self-esteem problem.

00:07:33.400 Like men, actually, they don't really have any experience.

00:07:37.000 And this is kind of a part of the feminist critique of modern masculinity as well. 1.00

00:07:40.880 I mean, some people I think Susan Faludi said this and stiff possibly is that because men have no opportunity to really prove themselves as men.

00:07:48.820 And they have this kind of neurosis from from never having that opportunity.

00:07:53.620 It makes them kind of insecure.

00:07:56.560 Yeah, I've heard I've heard a lot of people talking about lately, especially in the men's movement, that there's a crisis of masculinity.

00:08:03.660 So do you think there's a crisis?

00:08:06.620 Oh, yeah, no, absolutely.

00:08:08.380 There is.

00:08:08.740 I mean, it's not so much.

00:08:10.280 I mean, it's just an ongoing decline.

00:08:12.580 And the crisis of masculinity, when people want to talk about it, they it's always followed by how we're going to redefine masculinity for the modern age.

00:08:21.120 But we're still, for the most part, the same humans that we were, you know, a few hundred years ago.

00:08:27.240 And so redefining masculinity doesn't necessarily serve our needs.

00:08:31.560 You know, if we just make it to whatever, you know, we should be.

00:08:34.520 I mean, philosophy is about, you know, the world that you want, you know, the world that you think is best.

00:08:39.880 It's not let's just adapt to whatever happens constantly and say that that's good.

00:08:45.040 And I think that's kind of the aspect.

00:08:48.000 That's kind of the attitude a lot of people have taken in the technological age because things have changed so quickly.

00:08:54.000 They're like, well, this is how it is now.

00:08:56.700 So this is what we've got.

00:08:59.540 And I don't think that they're doing a very good job of deciding what they actually want.

00:09:05.080 Yeah, I'd agree.

00:09:06.700 So are you concerned about where men are today and where they're headed?

00:09:10.880 Oh, absolutely.

00:09:11.400 I think that if current trends continue, I don't really see, like I said, there's no real peaceful way out of this because really the state really, as it serves big corporations and everything, has every interest in keeping men contained and separate from each other.

00:09:31.140 It has no interest in allowing them to become more masculine.

00:09:36.200 You know, if you're trying to control men, why would you want them to be more masculine?

00:09:39.460 You would want them to be as, you know, if you don't need them as soldiers and they don't need most of them as soldiers, you just want them to be compliant consumers.

00:09:47.500 And I think, you know, women have been used to being taken care of more throughout history. 0.99

00:09:54.280 And I think it's easier for them to look at the government and say, and this is the majority of women, not all women, but it's easier for them to look at the state paternally and say, oh, well, it's going to take care of us now.

00:10:07.460 So, you know, and that's not always true, but I think women tend to think that way.

00:10:12.740 And, you know, it is taking care of their interests more today than perhaps in the past.

00:10:18.100 It's maybe not for the long-term good, but, you know, it's definitely not good for the long-term balance of men and women.

00:10:24.200 But that's where we're at right now.

00:10:26.240 Yeah, you mentioned big government right away.

00:10:29.360 Just think of welfare and a socialist system.

00:10:32.100 And it's true. 0.56

00:10:32.580 It's killed risk.

00:10:33.920 It's killed true competition.

00:10:35.740 And there's a primal drive to survive, but it seems like people don't have that when there's a huge government involved anymore, which is a travesty.

00:10:44.060 Yeah, well, then it's just really about pleasure-seeking and, you know, what makes me happy today.

00:10:51.200 Long-term planning, guys, it goes out the window.

00:10:54.540 And, yeah, there's no need for heroism or any kind of real endeavor.

00:11:01.820 So do you say, do you think that strength, courage, mastery, and honor, is that an important part of being a man?

00:11:08.760 I think that's how men judge each other, even if they're not trying to.

00:11:13.560 And that's why I use those virtues in my book.

00:11:17.700 That's what I was looking for when I wrote The Way of Men.

00:11:20.840 I was looking for kind of a universal definition of masculinity that describes what men are talking about when they look at one guy and they see, they understand that he's manlier than that guy.

00:11:33.120 They don't necessarily know why.

00:11:35.420 And I was trying to figure out why.

00:11:37.380 You know, what are their criteria that we're judging by?

00:11:39.900 And my criteria were strength, courage, mastery, and honor, because I think those are the things that men needed from each other in their survival scenario.

00:11:47.900 How would you define masculinity?

00:11:51.380 Well, as, like I said, as the cluster of qualities that men look for, have looked for in each other throughout history,

00:12:00.780 which are these tactical virtues, the strength, courage, mastery, and honor.

00:12:05.540 I think that once you start going beyond that, then you start talking about morality.

00:12:11.840 And you start talking about a lot of human things that really women have too. 1.00

00:12:16.320 You know, but if you're talking about specifically the strength, courage, mastery, and honor, especially strength and courage,

00:12:20.920 you know, being stronger naturally and being less risk-averse than women naturally.

00:12:31.700 And it's always been our job to risk.

00:12:35.280 That's why you get paid more.

00:12:38.200 In theory, yeah.

00:12:40.220 But, I mean, that's always been the job of men. 1.00

00:12:42.340 So I think that that's always been part of what masculinity is.

00:12:46.440 So what do you make of this growing gender-neutral fad?

00:12:49.680 Well, I mean, it's, like I said, it's easier for people who want to control us if we're all kind of the same and interchangeable.

00:12:59.860 So, and, you know, the more passive we are, it's, I think there was a thing actually in Sweden,

00:13:05.340 it might have been Sweden, where they wanted to change the gender-neutral pronoun was hen.

00:13:11.100 Oh, yeah.

00:13:11.900 That's the place.

00:13:12.840 And, yeah, I mean, and that's kind of convenient.

00:13:15.820 There are always these kind of little digs at men. 1.00

00:13:17.820 Oh, yeah.

00:13:18.240 Yeah, like hen, well, you know, in English, which I believe most Swedish people know some English, that's, you know, a female chicken. 0.95

00:13:26.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:13:27.480 So, I mean, it's a little dig at men.

00:13:29.780 The same thing with, in the West, there's this, you know, it's a little bit more radical, most people don't know about it, but people say cisgender, you know, which is someone who, you know, conforms to the gender stereotypes that are more traditional.

00:13:43.080 And so they'll call, you know, men who are, you know, more masculine, cisgender men. 0.91

00:13:49.060 Well, of course, cisgender, that has kind of sissy built into it. 1.00

00:13:52.940 Yes, it does. 0.99

00:13:53.800 And so it's all these little digs.

00:13:56.760 It's really about emasculating men.

00:13:58.900 The gender neutral is never really, the idea that women are going to become more masculine is kind of implied.

00:14:05.880 But the important thing, I think, to most people is to tame men.

00:14:12.220 And I think that that's why, you know, you see so many couples, it's so much rarer for you to find a pair of parents who have decided that their kid is transgender when they're five.

00:14:23.940 You know, it's usually a guy who they've decided, oh, he picked up a dress once, therefore he's transgender. 0.83

00:14:30.300 Yeah.

00:14:30.900 Whereas, like, if girls want to play softball, they just let them play softball. 1.00

00:14:34.200 You know, they don't try and turn them into boys.

00:14:37.620 It's true.

00:14:38.320 Yeah, I've met some, a lot of women, actually, I've come across that they really want their little boy to be gay. 0.99

00:14:43.720 So, you know, paint his nails and dress him up.

00:14:46.180 And they're kind of hoping for that.

00:14:48.400 That's kind of bizarre.

00:14:49.620 Yeah.

00:14:49.840 I mean, that wouldn't happen.

00:14:51.480 And it's really sad because, I mean, women didn't want that for men 100 years ago.

00:14:56.080 They would have been horrified.

00:14:57.580 You know, they wanted their men to be men.

00:15:00.040 I mean, I even say this, I joke about it with my mom because, you know, we have, you know, Facebook and things that we didn't have years and years ago.

00:15:07.420 And, you know, I'm, you know, I'm almost 40 years old and my mom's not allowed on my Facebook because she'll say things like, like, be careful, you're going to hurt yourself if I put a picture of myself lifting something or whatever.

00:15:18.980 And I'm like, Mom, would you have said that to your father, you know, as a 40-year-old man?

00:15:25.400 Yeah.

00:15:25.660 Would his mother have ever said that to him?

00:15:27.980 No.

00:15:28.380 She'd want him to show everybody how awesome he is.

00:15:31.860 She wouldn't say, be careful, don't hurt yourself, you know.

00:15:34.180 So I think that we're, you know, we're at a place where, you know, yeah, definitely women are kind of influencing men in that way.

00:15:41.760 And it's, it's, it is kind of unfortunate because that wasn't always the case.

00:15:45.980 Yeah.

00:15:46.400 The other day I was reading about the Vikings and basically if you give a man a gift in that day, which could be interpreted as feminine, was an insult.

00:15:55.300 They didn't take to that very well. 0.87

00:15:57.520 So they, they were pretty masculine, those Vikings, you know, and then in, in today in Sweden, for example, just the other week, another young girl was, she was gang raped by a pack of Muslims. 0.98

00:16:07.480 And my first question was, well, where's the dad and the brother and what are they going to do to make this right? 0.82

00:16:12.180 Because if this happened in pre-Christian days, the father would simply just go over there and kill the guy, right? 0.84

00:16:17.200 But now the power to war and avenge has been taken from men.

00:16:20.280 So isn't it a primal drive for a man to want to deal with his enemy?

00:16:23.780 Oh, absolutely.

00:16:26.020 And, you know, I've actually been reading some of the Icelandic sagas myself recently.

00:16:29.000 And this dovetails into a piece that I'm, I'm writing right now.

00:16:33.500 Someone asked me to write something about the death penalty.

00:16:36.100 And, you know, I see all these kind of abstract, we've, we've given the state all this proxy power to do, to do violence for us.

00:16:44.320 Mm-hmm.

00:16:45.240 And it's becomes very perverse because really you have all these people saying, it's like a, it's like a mob.

00:16:51.120 Like you see the medieval mobs and whatever, like, oh, you know, like kill this person, you know, these shouting for this person's death.

00:16:58.760 We kind of do that now instead of this personal thing where, you know, a father, you know, should be able to seek vengeance for his, his child.

00:17:08.720 You know, I think that's right and that's natural and it's not this kind of proxy violence where they have some person far away take care of the problem.

00:17:17.840 Like this person is just kind of garbage and we'll just make this problem go, you know, we, I think, you know, that kind of deprives them of that retribution.

00:17:27.060 And I understand, obviously, that creates a lot of chaos when you have, you know, kind of vengeance is driving force in culture. 0.98

00:17:35.160 But I don't know, I think proxy violence is kind of perverse.

00:17:38.800 Yeah, because I think if we didn't have that, if we didn't have government intervening, there would be a natural order that would just happen over time.

00:17:45.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:17:45.980 And people would settle down and people would learn, hey, I better not mess with that family.

00:17:50.200 Exactly.

00:17:50.760 And, you know, what, the other thing that was interesting to me as I was reading through some of those is that there's less execution and more banishment.

00:17:59.760 They're like, you know, communities will be like, you know, we just don't want you here.

00:18:03.060 You create too much, too many problems.

00:18:05.400 You've, you've gotten in too many fights. 0.96

00:18:06.780 You've killed too many people.

00:18:08.080 You just cannot be here anymore. 0.99

00:18:09.540 Exactly. 1.00

00:18:10.100 We'll kill you, but you need to go. 1.00

00:18:12.140 Yeah. 0.99

00:18:13.040 And rather than keeping these guys in these prisons where they just turn into worse criminals for, you know, 30, 40 years and then finally executing them or just keeping them a prison for life and they come kind of mastermind and run gangs and all kinds of stuff.

00:18:29.300 You know, it's, it's, it's kind of, it's, it's a bad system that kind of perpetuates itself.

00:18:33.920 And then the other thing that contributes, which I'm really sick and tired of, you know, new agers and also Christians who go on about turning the other cheek or giving it to the universe when someone wrongs you. 1.00

00:18:43.760 Do you think, do you think religion, including new age ideology have contributed to taming the man?

00:18:49.720 Oh, absolutely.

00:18:52.280 I mean, I think that, and I know I have a lot of Christian readers too, and that's, you know, and they look really hard for the, like the masculinity and Christianity.

00:19:02.780 And of course there have been many, you know, obviously the crusaders were not to be trifled with and so forth, but, you know, they're great knights that were all Christian and so forth.

00:19:11.660 But I do think there's something in, in that religion that kind of dampens some of these spirits that we're talking about in terms of, you know, just kind of masculine vigor.

00:19:24.380 I think there's a lot of submission in Christianity and, and also in some of these Far Eastern religions, because if you look at a lot of them, they come from big caste systems. 0.98

00:19:36.100 You know, like if you think of like, you know, everybody loves Indian religion and Indian culture and, you know, they have this giant caste system where people are supposed to know their place and stay there forever. 0.92

00:19:48.320 So of course there's kind of a huge submission element to it, you know, and kind of, you know, Islam, I don't know about the caste part of Islam, but I know that there's a huge, obviously focus on submission, even though that's not the way it's playing out right now.

00:20:03.060 It seems like men do what they want and what they're allowed to do, no matter what the religion is.

00:20:08.740 But, you know, I do think it contributes to the way we talk about violence and so forth.

00:20:15.480 And then today in Western countries, for example, should you just turn the other cheek when La Rasa is screaming from the streets about killing the gringo or in Europe when Islamic extremists are demanding Sharia law?

00:20:26.100 I mean, is nonviolence going to sort this out?

00:20:28.600 Or, I mean, the only way I see it sorting out eventually is going to be some sort of violence.

00:20:34.780 Well, yeah, I mean, it's, well, it's going to sort itself out in terms of, I mean, each country will have its own kind of thing.

00:20:44.100 Because if we're looking at, like, even the problems in Europe, you have, like, Muslims, which is kind of a different problem from Mexicans. 1.00

00:20:52.660 You know, in many cases, the Mexicans who are in America are not the same as, they're not, certainly not as angry as the Muslims.

00:21:00.620 And they're not blowing themselves up in trains.

00:21:02.480 They're not doing stuff like that.

00:21:03.580 But I think that, you know, as the white population in these places is replaced and they become a minority group, then the narrative kind of changes.

00:21:15.860 And I think that's what's going to happen no matter what.

00:21:19.940 At this point, I mean, I think we're far enough along that road is that white people are going to become a minority in a lot of these places.

00:21:26.080 And then that'll be interesting in the way that it changes the entire narrative.

00:21:31.940 Because you can only, you know, when white people are only 20% of a population in an area, you can't really call them the majority anymore.

00:21:39.440 And you can't really blame all the problems on them.

00:21:42.240 You know, and I think that right now we're still at a place where that's still possible for people to do.

00:21:47.580 Yeah, I can't stand it.

00:21:49.000 I can't stand watching it, especially a small country like Sweden.

00:21:51.980 And I'm married to a Swede and it's, they already are a minority in the world. 1.00

00:21:56.820 Swedes are rare.

00:21:58.300 You know, protect the endangered blonde, you know, where's that protection? 1.00

00:22:03.280 I know, it's unfortunate.

00:22:04.380 It's, you know, you hear all the time in the news that like, you know, blondes and especially gingers, you know, are going extinct. 0.98

00:22:14.100 So.

00:22:14.880 Yeah, well, in your book, The Way of Men, you wrote, if you're going to survive, your group will need protection from predators, animal, human, alien, or undead.

00:22:22.720 And many guys write us and they complain that they don't have a brotherhood or a like-minded tribe.

00:22:27.020 And it's apparent that this is becoming necessary in these times for us Europeans.

00:22:30.680 At least that's how I see it.

00:22:31.680 How do men start finding their tribe?

00:22:33.560 How do they start getting a brotherhood going?

00:22:36.260 It's a tough thing because, you know, like I said, there are a lot of forces in our society that want us to keep us apart.

00:22:42.780 I mean, it's even in terms of like working hours and things like that.

00:22:46.560 I mean, we only have so much time on the day.

00:22:49.000 And, but I really feel like the, it is possible.

00:22:52.920 I wrote an article recently called Age of Wolves about a group in America that is kind of doing that, actually in Virginia.

00:23:00.180 That's kind of formed its tribe and there are women involved too. 1.00

00:23:05.520 And they have, they have kind of their own role in the tribe, but there's also, you know, it's kind of a group of men that gathers once a month.

00:23:12.900 And, you know, it's kind of building that kind of brotherhood.

00:23:15.620 They've been doing it for years and years.

00:23:17.160 So it's a good model.

00:23:18.200 And so I'd encourage anyone to read that article.

00:23:21.360 You know, if they're, even if they're not interested in the specifics of that particular group, the model is there.

00:23:28.660 You know, I also did a podcast with a guy where he talked about how he started it.

00:23:34.540 So, I mean, you know, it's, it's a tricky thing.

00:23:36.640 It's hard to get guys to put down what they're doing.

00:23:38.640 And it's certainly hard, the harder to get them to swear to a brotherhood because that's a serious deal.

00:23:44.380 You know, that's not like they're used to, we're used to having these disposable cultural things that we're involved in that we can just go from one movement to the other.

00:23:53.160 And, you know, belonging to, you know, an ideology is just really, you know, as much as difference as liking a different Facebook page.

00:24:00.480 You know, we're not, you know, deep into anything.

00:24:03.940 And, you know, a serious brotherhood is a commitment.

00:24:07.360 And, you know, I think men have to think about if they're, if they really say they want this kind of brotherhood, they have to be really willing to commit to a brotherhood and not just commit to a brotherhood that they're in charge of.

00:24:19.280 You know, everybody wants to be the chief, but, you know, you kind of need everybody to be, you know, flexible enough that they're not necessarily the leader all the time.

00:24:29.820 I think our ancient ancestors in pre-Christian times, they had a brotherhood.

00:24:34.980 Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:24:36.680 And there really is a resurgency of this pagan folk memory.

00:24:41.180 We've been talking about it a lot.

00:24:42.440 And I think that as that comes out more and more, I think people will start forming their brotherhoods and their sisterhoods, especially if whites are becoming minorities in their own lands.

00:24:51.080 At that point, it's about, you know, ethnic survival.

00:24:54.380 Absolutely.

00:24:55.060 Absolutely.

00:24:55.480 And I think that they should do that.

00:24:56.520 And I think that they should, you know, do anything that they can.

00:24:59.380 So I think one of the major points that, you know, one of the starting points is a lot of people do now, they discuss political ideas and so forth online.

00:25:09.520 And, you know, we get caught up online, but I really have met guys who over years on a message board or something have basically created a small culture.

00:25:20.740 You know, the start of, they have all these inside jokes and they have all, and that's really kind of where friendship starts.

00:25:26.200 And so, you know, it's one thing, it's okay if you meet people online.

00:25:29.260 The next step is you got to, you have, it's proximity.

00:25:32.260 You really have to get these groups of people close together because that's when the next level of this kind of group formation happens.

00:25:39.480 You can talk about groups all day long, but until you guys have a bunch of guys who are in the same room often enough, you really don't have much of anything.

00:25:48.600 Yeah, it's true.

00:25:49.580 It's true.

00:25:50.160 That's one thing I see in this European movement.

00:25:52.300 It's about organizing and getting together has been a little challenging, but it's just in the beginning phases.

00:25:57.500 So we'll see how it shakes out. 0.98

00:25:59.440 And of course, and of course, if you guys get together, you know, it's the KKK or Nazis and you want to go kill some Jews. 0.99

00:26:04.880 So exactly, exactly. 0.99

00:26:07.020 So got to stop that.

00:26:09.540 Do you think we're going to need another dark age to get back on track or is that the easy way out?

00:26:16.340 Well, I don't see another.

00:26:18.160 I mean, I think that.

00:26:20.600 I think the way that our society is programmed to this point, I think we do need to kind of step back a notch.

00:26:26.640 I don't necessarily mean that we have to go down to stone tools or anything again, but I do think that we need to break away from the modern world.

00:26:40.020 And I do think that there needs to be some kind of collapse to help that, but maybe we can help the collapse.

00:26:46.540 You know, maybe we can, by refusing to invest in our society and being, becoming separate from it, you know, but kind of living our own lives to our best of our ability within these societies.

00:27:02.580 You know, hopefully we can contribute to the, just a kind of hollow state, a lack of faith in the government to the point where it just becomes this meaningless thing and real change can start to happen.

00:27:15.520 Yeah, it's funny you brought up technology because a lot of times when you talk about paganism or returning to what's natural or nature, people automatically think that we're going to have an ox plowing the field.

00:27:24.960 You know, that's not what we're talking about because we might need those robots to protect our borders, you know?

00:27:30.600 You know, we might, it's just, it's just an issue of marrying the two.

00:27:34.460 I mean, maybe more Mad Max, you know, guys, you know how to operate cars.

00:27:37.980 But, I mean, because we're never, we're never going to go back to that time period unless there's like some tremendous calamity.

00:27:45.700 But I think we can take ideas from the past and move them into the future.

00:27:50.060 There's that great book, Archeofuturism.

00:27:53.540 And I really like that, that concept in the sense of like taking good ideas from the past, good things that we have now, marrying them and creating something new, not doing a kind of historical reenactment.

00:28:06.500 Yeah, exactly.

00:28:07.020 You know, because that's just, that's just trying to breathe life into a dead culture. 0.98

00:28:11.560 Yeah, yeah.

00:28:12.300 You know, let's make a culture that's alive again.

00:28:14.960 I'm with you.

00:28:16.040 Well, another thing here, I mean, we should talk about the war on testosterone.

00:28:19.940 Have you looked into how men are being feminized by endocrine disrupting chemicals by any chance?

00:28:25.440 Oh, absolutely.

00:28:26.240 I mean, I'm not a scientist, so I can't really evaluate those claims as well as I would like.

00:28:31.260 I've talked to some other people.

00:28:32.720 I mean, I know that testosterone is dropping for many reasons.

00:28:37.300 Chemicals being one of them.

00:28:39.700 And, you know, I think also just nonstop submission is one of them.

00:28:45.220 You know, our testosterone drops.

00:28:47.380 You know, it's been proven that it drops like when your sports team loses.

00:28:51.580 Well, if you're losing every day, what do you think that that does to your testosterone?

00:28:56.780 You know, these guys are, you know, these little boys who are going to school and being told that they're bad because they're boys and, you know, not giving, not being allowed to play, not being allowed to do all the things that boys do.

00:29:07.420 I mean, think of how that affects their testosterone, like, as they get older.

00:29:12.420 I mean, there's just so many things that are kind of, you know, you know, the amount of soy in our diets.

00:29:18.340 You know, that's, you know, there's so many things that are influencing testosterone for the negative.

00:29:22.800 And there are a lot of guys out there who are actually trying to get around that.

00:29:27.880 I know a lot of guys who won't eat soy and a lot of guys who won't drink, you know, things out of plastic if they can avoid it.

00:29:37.100 And, you know, who are trying to take steps in a variety of ways to kind of increase their testosterone and get back what they've kind of been robbed of.

00:29:45.780 But, you know, who knows how much of it is in just the water.

00:29:49.940 Yeah, you have to try everywhere you can in eating organic foods.

00:29:53.760 And there are certain foods that are good.

00:29:55.580 Grains, forget about it.

00:29:57.160 Working out, lifting weights, all those things increase testosterone, which I feel we need some of that.

00:30:02.780 You know, women need that too. 1.00

00:30:04.340 It's actually biological when we kiss a man, we get a surge of testosterone and that's what gets us stimulated.

00:30:11.300 So we need that surge too.

00:30:14.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:15.320 Certainly not at the same level, though.

00:30:16.500 That's when it gets a little scary.

00:30:17.680 Oh, yeah.

00:30:19.260 Start getting a deep voice and getting strange hairs.

00:30:21.840 Yeah, yeah.

00:30:22.060 Yeah, that's counterproductive at that point.

00:30:25.920 Yeah, I think too.

00:30:26.980 I wonder if this is intentional with the chemicals, if it's about, you know, infertility and erectile dysfunction.

00:30:34.780 That there's some elite that are causing this on purpose.

00:30:37.600 Do you think there's a conspiracy behind it?

00:30:39.640 Well, it certainly would serve their interests.

00:30:41.480 I don't know.

00:30:42.120 I mean, I'm not a big conspiracy guy.

00:30:44.040 I think that people are just, you know, I think self-interest always explains a lot more than conspiracy.

00:30:51.860 I think self-interest at every level.

00:30:54.400 You know, if you have something that, like, for instance, if we're not, you know, like I said, I don't know the exact science of it.

00:31:01.260 But I believe one of the things that might be affecting people is, like, say, birth control in the water.

00:31:06.900 Yeah.

00:31:07.240 Oh, yeah.

00:31:07.880 Females and birth control and whatever. 1.00

00:31:09.720 And if you have that influencing everyone, you know, that's very convenient for society.

00:31:17.020 You know, birth control is a very convenient thing.

00:31:18.880 And we really couldn't have feminism without it. 1.00

00:31:22.040 And so, you know, I mean, that's something that kind of explains a lot of this without really needing a conspiracy.

00:31:29.160 Yeah, it's true.

00:31:30.200 You know, it's just convenient.

00:31:32.240 And same thing.

00:31:32.820 Plastics are convenient.

00:31:34.680 They didn't know they were bad for us back in the day, but they sure were convenient.

00:31:38.800 You know, so.

00:31:41.180 Yeah, there was a study I was reading about birth control pills.

00:31:44.940 And they're horrible.

00:31:45.960 Women should not be taking that stuff. 1.00

00:31:47.400 But it actually makes women more attracted to girly men. 0.99

00:31:51.460 Yeah.

00:31:51.920 And they actually are more attracted to women, too, more bisexual.

00:31:54.960 So I thought that was an interesting link.

00:31:57.280 Yeah.

00:31:57.520 Don't they also kind of give off different chemicals to men, like different pheromones or something?

00:32:02.300 I thought I read something like that as well.

00:32:03.840 I wouldn't doubt that.

00:32:05.400 Yeah.

00:32:05.820 Yeah, I was talking.

00:32:06.740 I interviewed this plastic surgeon, and she was talking about gynecomastia. 0.82

00:32:11.760 She's been removing lots of man boobs. 1.00

00:32:14.140 This is more of a frequent thing. 0.98

00:32:15.840 So, I mean, that's scary.

00:32:18.340 Well, yeah, absolutely.

00:32:19.280 I mean, whether it's, you know, that's caused by hormones or just obesity is even hard to tell because, you know, obesity causes then, you know, higher estrogen in men.

00:32:29.260 So, you know, I mean, there's definitely a problem.

00:32:33.720 And if you look at some of the other races, I mean, that are more similar, you can see maybe how like civilization has that kind of impact.

00:32:43.660 When you don't have a big frontier and you don't have this kind of struggle in life, you know, if you think about the, like the Asians, I mean, Asians, there's a smaller difference between the males and females, you know, even facially, hair wise, all those things.

00:33:01.920 And I wonder, you know, how much of that has to do with long-term submission.

00:33:07.520 Yeah, that's interesting.

00:33:09.420 Good point. 0.99

00:33:11.000 Well, I saw this other study that infant boys are being born with smaller penises, and there's more occurrences of something called a buried penis. 0.99

00:33:20.580 So, that's a bummer for the younger generations. 0.98

00:33:23.520 Oh, yeah, that certainly sounds unfortunate.

00:33:25.220 I didn't know that that was the case. 0.89

00:33:26.640 Because I've always heard that penises were supposed to get bigger, evolutionarily speaking, just that I forget why. 0.66

00:33:32.900 But, you know, that's certainly unfortunate.

00:33:37.180 You know, I mean, you feel bad for those guys, because that's one of those things we really don't have the technology to fix. 0.90

00:33:43.380 Penises are kind of a mystery still. 0.99

00:33:45.940 You can't get a dick implant. 1.00

00:33:47.880 Sorry. 0.99

00:33:48.340 Yeah, they're not like breast implants.

00:33:49.620 I mean, they can do it, but they're not the same.

00:33:53.620 Well, you know, there's a lot of unnatural things.

00:33:57.760 You know, I was talking about this on Renegade Broadcasting.

00:34:00.640 You know, it's like, sex today is unnatural.

00:34:02.740 I mean, think about it.

00:34:03.360 People, they incorporate plastic condoms, these pills to make you hard, pills to make you wet.

00:34:08.120 You use petroleum lubes we lay on toxic mattresses and chemically processed bedding. 0.93

00:34:13.100 And then some men even watch the Jewish-produced porn to get them going. 0.99

00:34:16.660 And let's not forget, you know, our boys are circumcised in America. 0.95

00:34:20.380 So, I mean, this is definitely contributing to some sexually frustrated and unhealthy people, don't you think?

00:34:26.320 Oh, absolutely.

00:34:27.220 Yeah.

00:34:27.540 Wow, that's your description of it sounds even worse than I would have thought. 0.93

00:34:31.760 It almost reminds me of, like, one of those stories of, like, the Japanese sex hotels and that kind of stuff.

00:34:36.260 Like, you know, all a completely plastic environment.

00:34:39.340 But, no, absolutely.

00:34:40.660 And porn is a big factor, too.

00:34:42.040 And I think that, you know, I kind of, it's kind of a weird, necessary evil, I think, for a lot of guys.

00:34:48.160 Because, you know, like, you know, there's just kind of, whereas girls are very available, they're maybe not available to all men.

00:34:55.380 And instead of getting married at 18, they just don't have access.

00:35:01.220 You know, so you have all these guys without real access to a girl.

00:35:04.240 And in many cases, they, you know, if they have high standards, they don't have access to marriageable women. 0.65

00:35:10.000 Yeah.

00:35:10.160 I mean, I talk to guys all the time.

00:35:11.660 It's like, you know, guys who would like to settle down and have kids.

00:35:14.280 And there just aren't a lot of women out there that are the kind of women you'd want to marry. 1.00

00:35:20.560 Yeah, there's a lot of idiots being programmed out there. 1.00

00:35:22.660 I mean, Hitler said young women were malleable as wax. 1.00

00:35:25.440 And, unfortunately, it's true.

00:35:28.400 You know?

00:35:29.120 Yeah.

00:35:29.800 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:30.380 It's unfortunate. 0.87

00:35:31.400 I mean, I talk to these guys, it's like these girls have basically been having a lot of sex with a lot of guys.

00:35:38.120 And then they want to settle down in their early, you know, early to mid-30s.

00:35:42.540 And guys don't necessarily want to have a woman who's had sex with 40, 50 men as the mother of their children.

00:35:49.880 Well, of course.

00:35:50.940 Yeah.

00:35:51.300 You know, that's a concern.

00:35:52.500 And so I think that I've seen a lot of guys who, as they get to that age and they're ready to settle down, they realize that either the women already have like two or three kids that are illegitimate or whatever.

00:36:03.800 Or they just don't, you know, these women are just not the kind of woman you'd want to be, have be mothers. 1.00

00:36:10.680 Yeah, young women are malleable as wax. 1.00

00:36:14.140 And, unfortunately, today, many women, unlike the Shieldmans of the past, are more susceptible to being molded by external forces. 1.00

00:36:20.640 And all they want is to fit in and be popular.

00:36:23.300 So if that means sleeping around, they'll do it.

00:36:25.160 If that means doing lots of drugs, they'll do it.

00:36:27.180 Or if that means having biracial kids, they'll do it. 0.99

00:36:30.080 Is it a lack of strong fathers and mothers in their lives?

00:36:32.700 Or is it about climbing the social ladder so their children will rank higher in society?

00:36:37.020 Or are women just more immature these days? 1.00

00:36:39.400 And then with entertainment, media, and education pumping nonsense into their heads, it's a mess out there. 0.99

00:36:44.720 Absolutely.

00:36:45.320 I mean, it's definitely, the sexes have definitely come to a place where they're kind of, you know, at a war, not in a melodramatic way, but just this kind of standstill where it's like women are going off and, you know, hanging out with their girlfriends in bars and having cocktails and doing their thing. 0.64

00:37:01.100 And men are kind of over here doing the other thing. 0.95

00:37:03.180 And they really don't have any reason to get together, you know.

00:37:07.260 But at the same time, men don't have any private male spaces, aside from their own bedrooms. 0.93

00:37:13.360 You know, they don't have any places where men are allowed to get together because then, you know, just like if, you know, white people get together, you know, they're Nazis. 0.94

00:37:21.280 If men get together, they're sexist.

00:37:24.760 Well, they should just start doing it and ignore all those labels.

00:37:28.060 That's what amazes me.

00:37:29.640 I agree.

00:37:30.200 I think that one of the things that men need to do is start saying no.

00:37:34.500 And, you know, it's easy for me to say this, but, you know, I think other guys, you know, I think it's, they get scared off by that.

00:37:42.780 And, you know, they've been taught all their lives that the worst thing that you could be told that you are is like a racist or a sexist.

00:37:50.000 And so, you know, instead of, you know, and they'll be challenged on that and they'll start making arguments like, I'm not a sexist or I'm not a racist because...

00:38:00.200 When the real argument should be, I am a sexist because...

00:38:04.700 Yeah, just own it.

00:38:06.220 Yeah, just own it.

00:38:07.160 Like, being a sexist is natural for all of human history.

00:38:11.500 Yeah.

00:38:11.860 It just means that you believe that sexists have different roles.

00:38:14.700 Yeah.

00:38:14.900 And I think, you know, unfortunately, as long as you allow feminists to frame that debate, then men are already lost. 1.00

00:38:24.580 You know, don't take a defensive position.

00:38:26.440 And then in some ways, I feel, well, from a European perspective, I think some of the men's movement, they're not hard enough because they don't touch the political stuff of, you know, how white males, that demographic is being treated worse than the others.

00:38:40.440 I wish that they would be a little louder and take some hits as well.

00:38:43.340 I mean, they get called sexist, but, you know, who cares if someone calls you a racist?

00:38:46.540 It's just a word, you know, who cares?

00:38:49.020 Yeah, and I think that it is because those words are stinging less than they used to.

00:38:53.620 I think that the media is becoming more and more hysterical in the way that they just ruin everyone who says anything.

00:39:05.460 I mean, there used to be kind of like, well, he didn't really mean that.

00:39:08.360 They'd get both sides and whatever, and now they just don't do that.

00:39:11.360 There was a guy the other day, a black man, actually, on ESPN, I think.

00:39:16.000 Like, I didn't hear the whole clip, but basically the idea is that he said something like women should not do things to invite abuse.

00:39:26.360 And he's had to recant.

00:39:28.620 Oh, God.

00:39:29.720 And then now he's on suspension. 0.97

00:39:32.980 That's just ridiculous. 0.91

00:39:33.700 And, you know, it's not like he said something horrible about women, but just the idea that women would be at all responsible for anything that happens to them that's negative from men is an unacceptable idea. 0.96

00:39:44.320 And so I think more and more people, more and more men especially, are just looking at this and being like, this is not even something that is legitimate at all.

00:39:53.140 I love how feminism, it never shows the shadow side of women. 1.00

00:39:56.440 It's just the shadow side of men.

00:39:58.220 And they never show the light side of men, the dark side of women. 1.00

00:40:02.700 That's never discussed.

00:40:03.900 Oh, you're a female. 1.00

00:40:04.900 You're a saint.

00:40:05.880 You can't do anything wrong.

00:40:07.640 Oh, absolutely.

00:40:08.540 Absolutely.

00:40:09.200 And, you know, like, you know, women have their own thing. 1.00

00:40:11.140 I mean, if you look at the way that gods and goddesses were portrayed, I always think of Hera, you know, and, you know, her, you know, as Zeus's wife, you know, just, you know, she was devious.

00:40:24.280 She was always getting back at him and going back and forth.

00:40:26.740 And you can just kind of see them bickering like an old, an old couple.

00:40:29.860 And, you know, men and women have always had that kind of, you know, combative relationship in many ways.

00:40:38.700 You know, like, you know, we're different enough that we don't always understand each other.

00:40:43.780 And, you know, men, women, women use their wiles to manipulate men a little bit. 0.99

00:40:49.240 And you can't say that today.

00:40:52.300 But, you know.

00:40:53.640 I feel so far removed when people complain about their relationships because I'm in a really good relationship.

00:40:59.320 And a lot of the things that they fight about, it's like, it's not a part of my life or my consciousness.

00:41:03.940 I'm like, whoa, you're still there?

00:41:06.620 Well, that's great.

00:41:07.840 I mean, that's rare.

00:41:08.660 You're lucky.

00:41:09.420 I mean, I think a lot of, you know, people do want that.

00:41:12.360 And I think, you know, a lot of people do have pretty good relationships.

00:41:14.980 I mean, still.

00:41:15.860 I mean, there are, that does exist.

00:41:17.620 It's possible.

00:41:18.200 I mean, both my sisters are happily married.

00:41:20.580 And, you know, they seem to have pretty good relationships with their husband.

00:41:23.120 I mean, obviously, there is the sex push and pull always, you know, like between men and women of what they want, what one side wants and the other side wants.

00:41:32.140 But men pretty much just work it out.

00:41:34.260 They just always want it.

00:41:35.140 Just, just expect that they always want it.

00:41:37.920 Oh, yeah.

00:41:38.640 Yeah. 0.76

00:41:38.800 I mean, as far as I'm at sex roles, but as far as actual sex, yeah, I'm just assuming that men want sex.

00:41:43.780 Yeah, that's, that's a, and if they, if they, if they don't, you know, there might be something wrong.

00:41:49.100 You know.

00:41:49.620 So, what do you think it's like for the younger generations of guys growing up today?

00:41:54.740 Is it, are they confused today on what it is to be a man or how to become a man?

00:41:59.780 They don't even begin to know how to define it.

00:42:01.900 Yeah, no, they, I think that most men, you know, they, they get stuff from the movies.

00:42:08.360 They, a lot of them don't even have any kind of relationship with their fathers.

00:42:11.340 Um, and when they do, you know, their, their idea of what masculinity is allowed to be has already been programmed.

00:42:19.720 I mean, if they've gone through a public school system, they've already been told what kind of man they're allowed to be and what they're allowed to say.

00:42:27.060 And, uh, so I think they do come to it, uh, you know, very confused.

00:42:31.860 They come to adulthood and, uh, you know, I, I think that, you know, they're used to growing up in a world where, uh, masculinity is in scare quotes all the time.

00:42:42.460 You know, you have, if you say manly, you have to put it in quotation marks.

00:42:45.280 So no one, everybody knows that you're not really serious about it, you know, and they're kind of making fun of it.

00:42:50.200 It's kind of has to be ironic.

00:42:52.160 And I think that is changing though.

00:42:54.500 Uh, I mean, I think that, you know, I think that young men are looking for that cause they realize that something's wrong at a certain point. 0.88

00:43:01.680 And, uh, that's when I think they get involved in many times, uh, some of the like pickup artist, uh, scenes and, you know, they start to realize that they've been told really a line of bullshit about women.

00:43:12.460 And, uh, you know, they try to figure out, well, what, what do women really want? 1.00

00:43:18.280 And unfortunately that's kind of swings too far the other way sometimes.

00:43:21.960 But, uh, you know, that's what happens with culture.

00:43:24.400 You know, someone told me the other day, I'm kind of a, like, uh, I'm kind of a necessary overreaction.

00:43:29.920 So I thought that was fair.

00:43:34.120 Yeah.

00:43:36.200 Yeah.

00:43:36.560 You describe yourself as a barbarian, right?

00:43:39.300 Uh, you know, I aspire to.

00:43:40.640 I wouldn't say that I'm actually a barbarian sitting here with a headset on, uh, you know, walking around my office.

00:43:47.500 But, uh, you know, I mean, I think I like the idea of the barbarian and that's what I talked about in one of my speeches.

00:43:53.380 And that's kind of what I want to write about next in terms of a book is, uh, the idea of us separating ourselves from the state and becoming stateless.

00:44:01.880 Because barbarian, the idea of a barbarian is really just a kind of a foreigner, uh, you know, someone that the state doesn't recognize because their ideas and their ways and their customs are, are alien.

00:44:12.600 And I think that, you know, I think in order for us to become stateless, you know, we have to have different cultures and that, you know, I, I'm a big fan of the idea of, you know, the, uh, you know, reinvigorating, uh, you know, these, uh, Northern European, uh, heathen cultures. 1.00

00:44:33.560 And, uh, and so forth.

00:44:35.060 I think that, you know, a lot of guys come to me and they want to, they want to second guess all that and make it into like something modern and new or whatever.

00:44:43.720 But I know, and you can, you can bring it into the future, like I said, but I think that, you know, you need something to start with.

00:44:51.720 And I think that maybe that's our starting point.

00:44:54.480 What are some of the aspects of the heathen culture that really jump out at you?

00:44:59.340 Well, I like their gods a lot better than Christianity. 1.00

00:45:01.480 Oh yeah.

00:45:02.000 You know, I mean, they just feel much more natural to me, uh, you know, much more admirable.

00:45:08.840 I mean, uh, I mean, they're heroic, but also doomed gods.

00:45:12.000 And I think that's a great, uh, that's a great kind of metaphor for where we're at.

00:45:17.740 You know, we're, you know, in Ragnarok possibly, you know, that we're, we're in this kind of doomed age.

00:45:25.140 And, you know, so to see these people who know that their fate, they're not immortal.

00:45:30.660 You know, they, they know that they have this fate, you know, that, uh, you know, that they're gonna, but they're gonna die in combat anyway.

00:45:39.480 And I think that that's, you know, something that, you know, is very inspiring to me.

00:45:44.760 Did you grow up in a Christian house?

00:45:47.340 Yes.

00:45:47.880 Yeah.

00:45:48.140 I got a Catholic, but it was like lapsed Catholic.

00:45:50.520 It wasn't like, uh, really strict.

00:45:52.720 So did you have a hard time coming out of that?

00:45:55.780 Um, not really.

00:45:57.560 Uh, I mean, it was just something that just never really interested me and people always want to argue about Christianity forever.

00:46:03.760 And to me, I'm just like, it's so boring.

00:46:05.680 Why do we even have to talk about it?

00:46:07.160 It's so boring.

00:46:07.840 I don't, I just, we, we don't need another 2000 years of that.

00:46:10.540 Um, you know, I just, you know, I'd rather, you know, if we're gonna, if we're gonna talk about gods, I'd rather have ones that are, you know, you know, interested in strength and heroism and, uh, you know, fertility and vitality rather than, uh, kind of this eternal kind of whiny self-sacrifice.

00:46:29.320 Oh, I agree.

00:46:30.480 I agree.

00:46:30.920 Now, is it true, is it true that you were a part of the Church of Satan for a while?

00:46:35.420 Yes.

00:46:36.120 So how did that go?

00:46:37.080 Because that's still in the realm of the Judaic mythology.

00:46:39.640 So I don't take it seriously.

00:46:41.820 Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, I don't think, Satanists really don't take it seriously either.

00:46:45.800 I always tell people it's kind of theatrical atheism, uh, you know, for people who like horror movies.

00:46:52.160 Uh, it's, uh, the Church of Satan, it really is kind of an atheistic religion.

00:46:57.560 But what I really took away from it that I liked, um, I, I distanced myself from it because it is kind of that culture of me, uh, rather.

00:47:06.320 And when I started writing about honor, I didn't feel like I could be associated with something like that anymore because, you know, honor is about self-sacrifice.

00:47:15.000 So, you know, I was involved with the Church of Satan, but, uh, one of the ideas that I took away from it that I really liked was the idea that we're still programmed for ritual and that we're still animals.

00:47:27.560 And, uh, that, you know, we should have rituals that are relevant for our lives and that, that help us, uh, and that, uh, you know, kind of take us somewhere different.

00:47:40.340 And, uh, you know, whereas for Satanism, that was all kind of like this kind of evil demonic thing for people who like that kind of thing.

00:47:48.420 But I think in many ways that kind of informs my approach to, uh, you know, more Northern religions is that, uh, let's look at these gods and like, you know, like I said, pick the ones you like, you know, pick the ones that are yours.

00:48:04.160 And, uh, you know, pick the ones that, uh, have, have attributes that you want to model yourself after and that can kind of bring you up in this world.

00:48:13.720 Um, instead of always focusing on what's going to happen when you're dead.

00:48:17.820 I especially like a lot of the Nordic deities, you can pick one up and if they don't do something for you, you can denounce them and move on to the next one. 0.67

00:48:25.340 This is like, this guy didn't do anything for me.

00:48:28.840 That's like Conan's God. 0.99

00:48:31.680 If you don't help me, then to hell with you. 0.97

00:48:34.300 Uh, but yeah, no, I mean, it's, I do, I did like that about Satanism and that's, and it seems like, you know, as much as people, you know, some people, they would raise an eyebrow about that, but it seems like that's kind of a natural pathway for a lot of people who are moving from Christianity to something else. 0.97

00:48:51.720 It's kind of a, a youthful rebellion, kind of a silly religion that, you know, it doesn't really, people don't really stay involved with for very long.

00:48:59.820 Uh, but, uh, you know, like I think Michael Moynihan is a good example.

00:49:03.160 He was involved with the church of Satan and then went on to be involved with the magazine tier and had blood access and all these things that are, um, very Northern inspired and Germanic. 0.60

00:49:14.380 So, I mean, I think that it seems like a lot of people go through that phase.

00:49:18.040 It's like kind of somewhere where death metal is.

00:49:20.660 Yeah.

00:49:21.720 And then they go to death metal and then they go to like Viking metal, you know, something like that.

00:49:25.800 Yeah.

00:49:25.960 You mentioned you felt that Satanism was a natural rebellion after Christianity. 0.98

00:49:29.660 And I can get that because in Christianity, you're told to constantly be selfless, self-sacrifice and surrender to the man in the sky.

00:49:36.000 You basically have no self value and it erodes your personal identity.

00:49:39.120 But on the flip side, Satanists are all about the self to the extreme.

00:49:43.060 So I get why ex-Christians go that route, hoping to find their identity and self-worth again, because of course it's still in the paradigm of the Judaic mythology. 0.94

00:49:50.660 Exactly.

00:49:51.300 But I think that to stop there, I mean, that's why, I mean, one could say that our individualistic culture in the West is, is Satanism enough.

00:49:59.660 Yeah.

00:49:59.860 You know, it's, it's like this kind of daily show liberal culture where all, everything is about your own pleasure.

00:50:06.400 I mean, that's kind of what Satanism is about.

00:50:08.700 And so I think that to move beyond that, then you start thinking about tribe and, you know, not just yourself, but a tribe, you know, not, not your savior, but your, your, your people, your, your, your friends and your family and people you care about.

00:50:25.060 So it's true.

00:50:26.040 I've been very anti-collectivist and I know Henrik, my husband has been too, but now we're like, wait a minute, our folk, how are we forgetting about the, our people?

00:50:35.180 Yeah.

00:50:35.780 Yeah.

00:50:36.000 I mean, it's, it's, it's really cool to be individualistic when you're like 22 years old, but, uh, you know, it's like, uh, I think you, you need other people ultimately.

00:50:46.140 Uh, like they say in the, uh, the, the planet of the apes movie that came out, uh, recently, you know, uh, one ape week, many apes strong, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the forces of modernity would love us all to stay in our little cubicles and our little houses and become like, you know, like, uh, the Japanese people who sleep in their, you know, corporations and then, you know, go home once a week or whatever. 0.78

00:51:13.220 Or the company men, they would love us to, to be that way.

00:51:16.440 Uh, cause you know, people like that have no friends.

00:51:18.780 They're, they're really easy to control.

00:51:20.240 But it's about finding your tribes.

00:51:21.620 Cause even if you're European, you might have a different tribe of people because some people they're white and they're communists.

00:51:27.140 And then there are some that are, don't want any state and are anarchists.

00:51:29.940 So do you see things maybe possibly breaking up in the future?

00:51:33.920 Oh, I think that's necessary.

00:51:35.020 I think that the natural human groups are not as big as white. 0.53

00:51:40.080 That's a huge group.

00:51:41.680 And I think that, you know, it, it would be like not even just heathen white, but like this group of heathen whites and that group of, I mean, that's, I mean, it, it also could one, one gigantic movement is easy for a government to infiltrate and break. 0.82

00:51:58.360 You know, that's easy for, I mean, that's, they've, they've been doing it for years.

00:52:01.280 They know how to do it.

00:52:02.420 That's what the FBI is for.

00:52:03.580 But, you know, if you have a bunch of different people just doing their own thing and, you know, they, you know, almost more of a cell model, somewhere between a cell and a tribe, you know, then you, then you have a lot going on.

00:52:18.200 It could be a movement to do that.

00:52:20.360 And that's kind of what I try to encourage is, you know, for these people, you know, there's a lot of people who are still into the, it's become really kind of fashionable almost in the far right.

00:52:29.640 To get into Orthodox Christianity, which I find terribly boring and like nothing I'd want to be involved in at all. 1.00

00:52:36.680 But, you know, those guys, if they're going to do that, they need to stop worrying about what pagans are doing and what other people are doing and just go, just go to their church, you know, go to church, start a church group, do your thing, you know, and the same thing with, you know, all the heathen groups and, you know, other groups, other ideologies, you know, modernity is such a big thing that we need everybody to be against it.

00:52:59.640 Separately.

00:53:00.740 Yeah.

00:53:01.300 Yeah.

00:53:01.520 I know what you mean.

00:53:02.560 I mean, you know, because even, even non-whites, because it can't just be white people.

00:53:06.420 It has to be everybody, you know, so I still try to encourage like groups of other people, you know, whether they're Native Americans or, you know, Filipinos or whatever.

00:53:14.560 It's like, find your tribe and, you know, break away from the state, undermine it.

00:53:18.900 I'm with you there, 100%.

00:53:21.940 Well, as we begin to wind down, I did want to get your opinion on what do you make of the modern gay community today and gay rights?

00:53:29.100 Because you and I probably both agree that rights are not given, but you take them and you make them so.

00:53:33.920 So what is your critique of today's gay community? 0.96

00:53:36.520 It's kind of a silly, I mean, it's a silly way to have an identity. 0.99

00:53:43.880 If your identity is all about sex, then that, you know, that kind of explains you. 0.98

00:53:48.200 You know, I think that, you know, men should be better.

00:53:54.220 Men should care about other things. 0.99

00:53:56.420 They'd rather have men that care about manliness than care about their entire identity has to do with their sexual orientation. 1.00

00:54:01.940 And, you know, they're bigger and more important problems in the world.

00:54:07.000 The gay movement is actually kind of ascended in a self-parody in the way that they really had all their legitimate goals. 0.95

00:54:16.840 They achieved all of their legitimate goals.

00:54:19.980 I mean, in the sense of like, you know, in the 70s, they did pick up guys in the park and put them in jail and call them sex offenders for the rest of their lives.

00:54:29.380 I mean, they did do things that were cruel and unnecessary.

00:54:36.380 And instead of integrating those people into society, they kind of turned them into people who hate society.

00:54:42.320 And I think that was unfortunate.

00:54:43.960 It had a lot of do with Christianity, I think, as well. 0.89

00:54:46.720 You know, it's kind of weird, you know, Judaic sexual neurosis.

00:54:52.160 And, you know, it's over-concerned with what everybody's doing in their bedrooms all the time.

00:54:56.640 And I think that, you know, unfortunately, you know, well, fortunately, I think that those real injustices were overcome.

00:55:06.940 And now it's just an increase of like things that they want.

00:55:13.260 You know, and it's interesting because, you know, like you have something like gay marriage.

00:55:18.840 And, you know, those guys really had these relationships that were not involved with the state at all.

00:55:24.120 And now they're, you know, they're campaigning all of a sudden to have this state involved in every aspect of their lives where it doesn't need to be at all.

00:55:34.000 I mean, they were kind of freer than they want to be.

00:55:37.520 You know, they want to have the state more involved in their lives.

00:55:39.900 And that's really unfortunate because, you know, the state being involved in your life doesn't make it better.

00:55:44.280 It just means that, you know, they have someone else to go after for money, you know, like when the banks have someone else to ask for money when you die.

00:55:54.760 And that's really unfortunate.

00:55:56.220 But unfortunately, it seems like the gay movement, like all, I think, movements in the way that politics works these days is that, you know, you have this organization that had kind of legitimate goals to start with, or at least, you know, something that was worth listening to. 0.59

00:56:14.000 And then over time, it snowballs and runs away and, you know, it becomes self-perpetuating because these people still have jobs, you know, they have jobs in these movements.

00:56:26.180 And once they achieve a goal, they don't just pack up and go home.

00:56:29.860 They need something, they need the next thing to be angry about.

00:56:32.400 And so they keep looking for the next thing.

00:56:34.660 It's like the gay movement has now gotten to a point where it's really about transgenders.

00:56:39.760 Yeah, it's true.

00:56:41.240 Which is an entirely different subject.

00:56:43.100 It's really poorly understood.

00:56:45.420 It's, you know, redesigning society for, I mean, gay people were like, you know, 2.5% of the society. 0.98

00:56:52.820 Now we're talking about like a tiny, tiny fraction of that.

00:56:56.600 And talking about redesigning bathrooms and redesigning society and talking, you know, there's an article recently.

00:57:03.660 Minority rule, right? 0.99

00:57:04.440 Yeah, yeah.

00:57:04.940 I mean, extreme minority rule.

00:57:06.940 You know, and that's really, I think, part of the, it's caught on because in many ways it's part of that big feminist project that we're talking about, about kind of getting rid of all sex roles.

00:57:18.080 And, you know, if you think about it, being transgender is basically making who you are, your whole identity, really a consumer choice. 0.77

00:57:25.440 Yeah.

00:57:25.840 You know, you can buy the sex change and the hormones and so, oh, look, I'm a man now, I'm a woman now, you know, I can change whoever I want.

00:57:34.000 Like I can go to the mall, you know.

00:57:37.060 It's all very kind of consumer oriented in a way.

00:57:39.700 It makes us all very interchangeable.

00:57:41.720 And I think that's a little too convenient for the powers that be.

00:57:44.620 Yeah, exactly.

00:57:45.520 They can use all of these things for political means, of course.

00:57:48.600 Yeah, I saw some transgender person was, made a YouTube video that was complaining about Obamacare needs to, 0.99

00:57:54.680 needs to pay for my operations and my hormone shots.

00:57:57.960 So that might be coming up next.

00:58:00.160 Well, I mean, it is, I mean, I know, I think the city of Portland pays for that.

00:58:04.660 Oh, they do, huh?

00:58:05.240 For their employees.

00:58:06.480 Yeah, yeah.

00:58:07.180 So, yeah, anybody who works for the city of Portland, I think, can get the city to pay for its sex change. 0.84

00:58:13.500 I know that was, at least, I know that was in the news that it was on the table.

00:58:16.440 I don't know if it's a real thing, but I assume that it passed because Portland's, as you know, pretty liberal.

00:58:21.840 So.

00:58:22.460 I think they pay for abortions too. 1.00

00:58:25.060 Well, of course, you know.

00:58:28.480 Why not, right?

00:58:31.260 Well, Jack, it's been a pleasure.

00:58:32.720 Please give us your websites and any other details you'd like to give.

00:58:35.520 All right.

00:58:36.720 Well, my website is jack-donovan.com, so that's pretty easy.

00:58:42.860 I also have an author page that you can find on Facebook, and I send out things that way.

00:58:48.320 And I'm on Twitter as well.

00:58:49.580 I'm easy to find.

00:58:51.160 And my new book, actually, just my most recent book of essays, Sky Without Eagles,

00:58:57.360 and that's kind of about the separation from, you know, America, is that just recently came out in paperback just today, actually.

00:59:06.760 So people should be able to get that.

00:59:09.140 It was in hardcover before, and now you can get it in hardcover, paperback, or audiobook.

00:59:14.520 And, of course, people should watch your presentation from Omren's conference in 2014

00:59:18.300 and also NPI's conference from 2013 because those are on YouTube, and you did a great job there as well.

00:59:23.860 Absolutely.

00:59:24.280 Well, thank you very much. 0.96

00:59:24.880 As a woman, it troubles me seeing European men who are increasingly becoming cowardly and weak, 0.91

00:59:30.620 quietly submitting to political correctness and socially acceptable attitudes.

00:59:35.640 You European men come from Europe, the land that has given birth to explorers, conquerors, and warriors,

00:59:42.080 academic geniuses, brilliant inventors, exceptional artists, master builders, and inspirational philosophers.

00:59:49.380 Europe has accomplished what all the rest of the world together did not.

00:59:52.460 Your ancestors did not become great by sitting around, getting a gut, becoming dull in the mind, saying,

00:59:58.520 someone else will fix things.

01:00:00.300 Jack wrote an article titled, Violence is Golden, where he said,

01:00:03.760 It's time to quit worrying and learn to love the battle axe.

01:00:06.800 History teaches us that if we don't, someone else will.

01:00:09.740 So, where's your internal battle axe, guys?

01:00:12.560 Where is it?

01:00:13.740 The last thing the crooks, traitors, and invaders want is for European men to unite, rise up, and put their collective foot down.

01:00:20.760 But that's precisely what we need.

01:00:22.720 Men who can put their heads together and come up with a master plan, a brilliant tactic, one that the world would not expect.

01:00:29.480 Where's the brotherhood of men who are courageous, strong, and value honor and loyalty?

01:00:34.780 And I say this to the women.

01:00:36.180 Get your act together.

01:00:37.160 Where's the sisterhood, the loyalty, the excellence?

01:00:40.180 Men need a reason to go into battle.

01:00:42.120 Women and their children give them that reason. 1.00

01:00:44.560 They need backup from their women. 1.00

01:00:45.920 So, as women, we should encourage our men to become strong, bold, and defiant on every front.

01:00:51.620 Give them a reason to want to pick up that battle axe. 0.98

01:00:53.960 You'll be amazed at how your relationship dynamic will become greater when he taps into his warrior side, which has been greatly suppressed in modern times.

01:01:02.500 Men and women should be encouraging excellence from each other.

01:01:05.880 And women, raise your sons and daughters to be strong-willed in their purpose, not the will of overlords who seek their genocide in the end.

01:01:13.000 How you parent is a powerful tool, and we create either kings or slaves.

01:01:17.900 Alright, enough of my rant.

01:01:19.180 On a completely different note, on the subject of hormone balance, I'd suggest all of you men and women listening to find a naturopath and go get a hormone panel done.

01:01:28.240 You take the test kit home and collect saliva samples at specific times and then send it to a lab for testing.

01:01:34.160 Don't be shocked to find high estrogen levels with all the estrogen mimickers present in our environment.

01:01:39.300 But the good news is that you can get yourself balanced and you'll feel a huge difference.

01:01:43.760 A naturopath can help you with this via supplements, food, exercise, and herbs.

01:01:47.800 I feel this is highly important and everyone should test themselves.

01:01:52.000 Radio314.com or redicecreations.com are the websites where you'll find more.

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01:02:14.300 Look out for more interviews and a couple movie TV reviews coming up.

01:02:18.680 I hope you all have a pleasant day or evening.

01:02:20.440 I hope you all have a pleasant day.

01:02:50.440 I hope you all have a pleasant day.

01:03:20.440 I hope you all have a pleasant day.

01:03:50.440 I hope you all have a pleasant day.

01:04:20.440 I hope you all have a pleasant day.

01:04:22.440 I hope you all have a pleasant day.

01:04:50.420 I hope you all have a pleasant day.

01:04:52.420 I hope you all have a pleasant day.

01:05:20.420 Thank you.

01:05:50.420 Thank you.

01:06:20.420 Thank you.

01:06:50.420 Thank you.

01:07:20.420 Thank you.

01:07:50.420 Thank you.

Radio 3Fourteen - August 06, 2014

The Way of Men

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