Radio 3Fourteen - Unspirituality_ Permission to be Human

00:00:00.000 We'll be right back.

00:00:30.000 this is radio 314 on the red ice radio network

00:00:39.220 welcome back and hang tight because you're about to hear from christopher lauren

00:00:49.320 the author of unspirituality permission to be human while i agreed with many of christopher's

00:00:55.180 points i firmly disagree with the darwin's macro evolutionary paradigm which for many does not

00:01:00.140 satisfactorily account for things such as life's rapid start on earth or the evolutionary impossibility

00:01:05.960 of the cambrian explosion or the fact that there are no fossils of partially evolved species to

00:01:10.940 indicate that a gradual process of evolution even occurred even among evolutionists there are very

00:01:16.160 different interpretations and reconstructions of the fossils used to support human evolution

00:01:20.580 from a supposed ape-like ancestry and then there's the fact that many genes appear older

00:01:25.380 by sequence analysis than they should be according to the fossil record variations across biological

00:01:30.620 kinds such as humans evolving from ape-like creatures and apes in turn evolving from dog-like

00:01:35.400 creatures and so on as darwinian theory teaches are not possible unless nature has the capability of

00:01:41.220 performing genetic engineering biological variations are determined by the dna or genetic code of species

00:01:47.080 then we have some animals abilities that are too complex to be explained by the evolutionary process

00:01:52.160 another problem is how could partially evolved plant and animal species survive over millions of years

00:01:57.120 when their basic organs and tissues were still in the process of evolving yet it has been well

00:02:01.780 established that in all chromosome comparisons between chimps and humans the differences average two to

00:02:06.840 three percent yet the difference between the y chromosomes is 30 percent although darwin's primate theory

00:02:13.500 is the thread throughout christopher's book will mainly focus on this concept of unspirituality

00:02:18.300 and the delusion of a spiritual self and its story christopher lauren thanks for being on the program

00:02:23.840 thank you lana so why don't we start off by you you telling us about your journey and your

00:02:29.500 intentions for writing the book unspirituality permission to be human okay uh well it's a long story and it's

00:02:37.380 um actually working on the story which is a book entitled unspiritual uh a spiritual journey

00:02:44.760 which is my uh what i call my 30-year journey um through uh christianity and metaphysics uh which

00:02:55.080 culminated in a human awakening rather than a spiritual awakening which was quite surprising for me

00:03:01.360 because um i wasn't i really wasn't expecting it i had suspicions along the way

00:03:05.960 but i wasn't suspecting it i had never put my eyes on uh evolution and never i never studied

00:03:13.200 evolution and never studied brain science um being a spiritual being and having a human experience is

00:03:18.840 all i knew i mean from the time i was a child i was born into the orthodox tradition so it started off

00:03:26.260 with catholicism and then we went into the worldwide church of god and so i was very very strict uh strict

00:03:34.480 christian upbringing um like in the worldwide church of god we were we had to you know follow the feast

00:03:40.240 days and certain days we had a fast and i you know i i our sabbath was on saturdays and you know we

00:03:47.940 couldn't do anything on saturdays we couldn't celebrate christmas easter any of these things so i i was

00:03:53.380 really kind of like in a mini cult you know in my family setting so um i really like and i was an avid

00:04:04.120 you know i was a little book nerd as a small kid and i spent a lot of times in libraries that's kind

00:04:10.900 of where i went to get away from the the family craziness and uh um the religious manipulation and

00:04:18.320 all of that and so uh as i got uh anyway as i got older um i went um i was raised in uh glendale

00:04:27.660 california which is near you know of course in la yeah i know and uh yeah so i i got involved in the

00:04:35.380 whole sex drugs and rock and roll gig and uh had a band and was playing some gigs in in hollywood and

00:04:42.380 um was going down was it was you know i was i was really engaged in that scene for quite a while but

00:04:50.720 what it led to is it led to me really being really really miserable with my world and what it culminated

00:04:58.140 in was a born-again experience at the age of 19 and it's interesting because i was raised um christian

00:05:05.140 but um it wasn't until i really reached um a place inside myself at uh 19 where i was um feeling

00:05:13.920 suicidal that uh i ended up and and this is a long story it's why i need to write it why i felt

00:05:20.440 suicidal and it has a lot to do with the um being being raised in a narcissistic environment

00:05:26.220 and uh you know being under the thumb of the orthodox bullying which is really what it is

00:05:34.200 what do you think what do you think that does to the psyche of a child

00:05:37.620 it splits them in two i think i think what it does is it creates a uh what i call a socially

00:05:44.800 acceptable schizophrenic because it does a lot of things that's one of the things it does when

00:05:50.320 you're taught that you are first of all born in sin and that you're you're basically you know

00:05:55.860 right off the bat you're rejected from the entire universe and that you have to accept a blood

00:06:01.920 sacrifice a human sacrifice to somehow be in the good graces of god i think that's teaching that

00:06:09.660 to children is is abusive um and and what it does is i think instantaneously it makes a child

00:06:16.460 uh it's insinuating that you're not okay so all of a sudden they jump on this treadmill of having to

00:06:23.900 do things to become okay so um there's a word i'm looking for um and it's evading me right now

00:06:32.780 um but but anyway so um so also when when when the parents believe this and they're and they're

00:06:41.080 they're teaching this to their children and they've already have have this split going on where they

00:06:47.460 feel that you know they have to abide by these these religious rules in order for them to feel

00:06:53.580 connected to the universe so you know they they don't even feel okay and so that feeling is already

00:06:59.880 there in the parents and so that's that's transmitted to the child through you know their uh through

00:07:06.620 emotions through connection however they're communicating with the child and of course this

00:07:10.580 depends on what degree of belief um a family has i mean some families are much more intense than

00:07:16.620 others some you know some it's a little lighter but anyway the but the belief you know it immediately

00:07:22.020 invalidates the young human primate you know and so what i like to say in my book is we're born with

00:07:28.580 everything we need we're born with love we're born we're mammals and it took us six million years

00:07:34.780 for each one of us to be born you know in this in this time do you know when the word

00:07:40.220 spirituality began surfacing oh i'd have to i'd have to um look back in my book exactly what i wrote

00:07:50.760 there but um um you know um the whole the whole idea of spirituality is that you know it's this idea

00:08:00.700 that you're a spiritual being and you have um a whole spiritual story and so what i i i

00:08:10.120 touch on in the book is that when we became we began to become self-conscious uh when our brains

00:08:15.780 developed to a point where we became became self-conscious of death uh and so uh we began

00:08:22.380 to wonder you know where do where do our relatives go where do the people go and so we started creating

00:08:27.240 death rituals and we started creating a story um but what that did is it relieved death anxiety

00:08:34.080 and so as i describe in my book that the birth of the spiritual being no matter what tradition it is

00:08:41.240 is it is what it is is a it's a identity that the human primate creates and this identity does not die

00:08:51.300 it um it it basically it's a little super super super man little super spirit that um basically can

00:09:00.680 break all the laws of physics it chose to come here while it's here all of its friends are walking

00:09:06.660 on water and being raised from the dead and then it's got big plans for when it leaves so um i also

00:09:13.660 graduate that idea in the book that um i get into a thing called divine narcissism where you know i i say

00:09:22.960 that you know i think that the you know the stories in the myths of mankind have been a stepping stone

00:09:28.840 from tooth and claw to facebook but now it's problem because now with the science that we have

00:09:36.920 uh it's been emerging over the past hundred years um and more um we know things now that make the old

00:09:47.280 way of looking at things really elementary and so what's the problem now is that people are trapped

00:09:53.920 in the story and they're identified with this object called a spiritual being that they believe

00:09:59.560 themselves to be and so um you know a big part of what i'm writing about is is helping people to wake

00:10:06.220 up like i did because i spent when i had the barn again experience at 19 that's when i initiated my

00:10:12.480 quest for truth and so that began a 30 year and i mean 24 7 need to know um i don't know if now is the

00:10:22.460 time to really you know get into this very very deeply but i can tell you that uh i was on a on a

00:10:29.720 mission and um there's a some people are born and for whatever reasons have this insane desire to seek

00:10:39.980 not everybody has it but um i'm one of those people for whatever reason and so this was a 30 year

00:10:48.920 uh really uh need to know tearing through every book i could find and um working my way into uh

00:10:58.080 really saying hey am i a spiritual being and i also had out-of-body experiences from the time i was four

00:11:02.560 so what did you think those were well i wasn't sure along the way i i was i was like i was exploring

00:11:10.400 these things um because i could pop into you know i could wake up in my room and look around and

00:11:17.240 and then uh you know there were other times when i found myself on the top of the empire state building

00:11:23.600 and so was that a spiritual experience or do you think that was your imagination

00:11:28.060 well that's where i came to with it is um there's a book by thomas metzinger

00:11:36.240 called the ego tunnel and so when i started studying uh okay i wrote i wrote uh unspirituality

00:11:44.420 in the beginning of 2013 so all of this really started to come together for me over the past

00:11:49.660 three years three four years and uh so i really started studying brain science because i was

00:11:55.280 tinkering with the whole spiritual being thing for 30 years you know i'm like i don't care it's you

00:12:00.200 know it's not so much about what i want i want to know what's true so you probably studied

00:12:03.900 pursingers god helmet as well right oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah but this was really cool because

00:12:09.340 when i started getting into naturalism and atheism and i don't consider myself an atheist i i'm more

00:12:14.680 i'm promoting humanity i'm a human i'm a primate but i you know i'm totally fine with the atheist

00:12:20.640 uh movement i think it's dynamite it's wonderful they're promoting reason it's awesome but as i you know

00:12:26.600 as i started to like contemplate the idea of evolution and brain science all of a sudden this huge door

00:12:32.920 opened up and because i had only been looking at things i've been studying everything from the

00:12:37.480 theosophy to you know i mean bladman blavatsky to to um elizabeth their prophet to seth to shri

00:12:45.260 arabindo to alistair crowley uh israeli rigardi uh the matrix series by val valerian i mean i could go on

00:12:52.780 and on and on and on um you know i just i went really really deep and i actually i actually got into

00:12:59.620 each one of these um uh spiritual modalities and i tried them on for size and i would experiment and

00:13:06.780 i would explore and look at the reality through them but when i got to uh brain science man i i was just

00:13:13.400 having a blast i was like oh i know that oh i know that oh i understand that and that started making

00:13:18.660 sense and one of the questions i had about out-of-body experiences is when i'm out right how come

00:13:23.840 the room looks accurate right for the most part but i turn to the left and there's my living room uh

00:13:29.820 the living room for my childhood home or maybe there is a you know a whole different thing there

00:13:36.140 that that isn't accurate so i really started to wonder i go well if we're using the physical body

00:13:41.740 as sort of a measuring stick to use the terms out of body well then if you're really out of body then

00:13:48.680 the rest of the physical world should be reflecting accurately if not it's very suspicious of uh of

00:13:56.820 you know the subjective yeah consciousness is such a mysterious thing i mean there's

00:14:01.280 a lot of scientists that don't know jack about it yet right right but there but but the things that

00:14:08.660 because i had spent so time so much time working on it from the other end when i started studying brain

00:14:15.280 science i like really quickly knew what they were talking about and so i began to compare both sides

00:14:22.440 you know both sides of the argument you know is the brain a conduit of consciousness or is the brain

00:14:26.400 producing consciousness and i mean i'm looking at my library right now i have a whole shelf of books on

00:14:32.240 one topic and a whole shelf on books on the other topic and i lean towards um that that human primates

00:14:39.040 are producing the spiritual experience have you looked into lloyd pye's work by any chance

00:14:43.700 and the intervention theory because a lot of times when it comes to evolution people always think

00:14:47.860 it's either god or nature but then there there could be a third variable of course

00:14:51.940 hmm no i have a panspermia type of effect yeah you should look into it he has some

00:14:57.360 pretty pretty valid points as well interesting yeah um i'm definitely open to listen and explore new

00:15:05.360 things um i uh you know i'm just expressing my experience with this whole with this whole god

00:15:11.520 thing and how much you know um the natural world is really really amazing and it really dwarfs the

00:15:20.520 spiritual story i mean the more i understand about and i have a chapter called unfathomable evolution

00:15:26.520 the more i understand about our evolution i mean think about it like we've had 4.6 billion years

00:15:32.360 growing organically every one of us through the same genetic tree

00:15:36.120 i mean what's not spectacular about that and every one of us are actually connected we're connected to

00:15:43.660 the plants we're connected to animals you know this is this is an organic process

00:15:48.480 but why are we so disconnected from nature then if this is there

00:15:51.940 oh i'd say a big part of it is we're trapped in our subjective religion and spirituality

00:15:57.240 we're trapped in the contents of our subjective rather than understanding it as a language

00:16:04.160 it's a it's local see we we tend to project the things that are arising within us or project

00:16:13.380 them out in the world and we also think that because we see this inner landscape and and we feel

00:16:20.180 what's going on inside here we we project it on the world and we say that's what's going on out in the

00:16:24.980 world and what i'm saying is no this is actually local this is the local phenomenon within you

00:16:31.320 inside your body and see see what what happens is is people like when people tend to wake up from

00:16:38.640 spirituality or religion they tend to go into the materialist camp and they throw subjective out

00:16:43.580 sure and i'm like uh-uh sorry you know it's like i spent 30 years i've had rich amazing synchronistic

00:16:50.380 experiences i mean i've had just as many as just like anyone else in the spiritual

00:16:54.760 path um i'm i'm very familiar with very magical experiences so there's no way i was going to throw

00:17:02.640 you know throw that out and just become a materialist but then i started looking at

00:17:06.080 you know i started seeing that you know people should look at you know evolution they look at our

00:17:11.660 human bodies but i'm like how about it took six million years to grow an imagination

00:17:16.200 and when i started to look at that i thought you know think about how much natural selection

00:17:23.800 was going through and growing humans and and making mistakes and i mean this is a long radically long

00:17:31.840 period of time and when i started to look at the our kaleidoscope of emotions and our vast imagination

00:17:38.840 imagination it really clicked for me that um i i now see what we tend to put to assign into spiritual

00:17:48.340 realms or invisible places always projecting it out there i say it's inside of us and it's a product

00:17:55.120 of our evolution i think we should define some of those what terms we're we're using for spirituality

00:17:59.780 i mean is it religion is a new age is it quantum consciousness is it channeling what is spirituality

00:18:05.460 well i think it's simply our subjective world it's our feelings our thoughts our emotions

00:18:12.540 and um i think how we create spirituality and why we have to have all these names for it and stuff

00:18:19.740 is our beliefs about it and how we project it out into the world one thing we don't understand i mean

00:18:25.440 i shouldn't say i don't that's a blanket statement but what a lot of people don't understand i live in

00:18:29.960 sedona and there's some fascinating amazing people here and there's there's a lot of people that are

00:18:34.300 i i see them as still sort of very strong believers uh not much different than than you know believers that

00:18:43.520 i knew in the in in the orthodox tradition do you think the metaphysical is different from spirituality

00:18:49.820 it's the same thing it's all the same stuff yeah you know i mean i you know in the last um chapter

00:18:58.220 of my book i dedicated it to the focusing method um by eugene gendlin which is a method that i've

00:19:04.820 learned to use in my life and so i really wanted to give um my readers a tool and i really like the

00:19:12.540 tool it's just a very clean tool and and what it is is it's basically learning how to communicate to

00:19:17.760 that which is arising within you no matter what it is whether it is a positive good feeling or a

00:19:26.040 negative bad feeling um our insights are constantly communicating to us through archetypes through

00:19:34.460 um you know just like dreams you know we dream at night we close our eyes we go into this place

00:19:39.900 another interesting thing about when we dream is we actually disappear for hours an evening during

00:19:46.480 during every night which i find really interesting because there's there's nobody that's i mean there's

00:19:51.900 no consciousness whatsoever but we dream and so our our biology is creating you know this this movement

00:20:01.480 of of story and shape and i think what what's happening in there i tend to think that it's the movement of

00:20:11.260 the dream that's more important than the content and the definition of the dream because i think that

00:20:17.660 dreams are a movement inside of whatever our bodies are needing to do but when we wake up we tend to

00:20:24.480 think that we're not dreaming anymore but if one were to slow down a little bit and take a look

00:20:31.960 uh at what thoughts are arising and what they're feeling and and kind of move just become a little

00:20:38.960 more sensitive to what's actually there if we find out that we're actually set this activity is still

00:20:43.320 going on throughout the day and so focusing is teaching how to understand the language of the

00:20:49.880 subjective because we see and we experience the universe through our thoughts and feelings

00:20:55.020 and what gene againlin is saying which i love this is that this is a this is almost like the language of

00:21:00.900 the future like we we need to understand the language of the subjective and how it's communicating to us

00:21:08.020 and this is what i call this is what i think spirituality is pointing to the older systems

00:21:13.840 are all projecting our fantasies out on the landscape of the world and so i i would put that

00:21:20.980 right there under the umbrella of everything metaphysical because the other thing is is if you

00:21:26.700 listen to just about anybody in a new age movement that's talking new agey stuff it's basic

00:21:33.380 theosophy regurgitated there's nothing original about it yeah i mean i want to see somebody i want

00:21:42.280 to hear about what what is your own original unfolding in this moment right now give me something totally

00:21:49.100 in this moment that's fresh content that's arising within you that to me is the quote-unquote power of

00:21:55.560 now or whatever one wants to call it so um the other stuff is like it's a yawn i mean when i hear

00:22:02.580 bashar or i hear um you know they have the the ashtar command is big out here and yeah that one's

00:22:10.280 funny you know yeah and it's like people start talking i seriously i don't want to be real but

00:22:15.760 it's like blah blah blah blah i mean come on seth was babbling this you know decades ago let's come

00:22:22.040 up with something more interesting yeah it doesn't doesn't always have much depth or authenticity to it

00:22:28.880 unfortunately and then there's those people who keep thinking they're the incarnation of

00:22:32.500 magdalene isis or cleopatra right yeah how about somebody really cool that's an unsung hero

00:22:39.400 you know that's why i say the other thing too is spirituality really cannot it kind of hijacks

00:22:46.000 the natural world and it it takes the the limelight off of all of the heroes you know the the i mean if you

00:22:57.640 one just ponders how many mothers how many heroic mothers have we had over the past two hundred

00:23:04.540 thousand years you know how many unsung heroes how many amazing amazing people that were more amazing

00:23:13.300 than gandhi but just didn't get noticed you know and so we have these religious icons that everybody

00:23:20.540 is talking about and it's like sometimes i just you know it one of the teachings of the buddha is when

00:23:28.560 you see the buddha on the road kill him you know for those that don't understand that what he's saying

00:23:35.540 there is that you know it's your image in your head of god that your fight is the final instruction

00:23:41.200 or it's your image of anything that's real even the image of your girlfriend exactly yeah one of my

00:23:49.660 favorites and uh but even an image of your of your girlfriend or your boyfriend you get an image

00:23:55.340 you're dealing with you know you have to like uh understand who people actually are but

00:24:02.840 anyway so you get my point is like people are always pointing to these iconic leaders and it's

00:24:07.880 always taking the the picture off of humans because humans human primates it's almost like

00:24:13.420 it's almost like a prejudice and i and i and i have actually a whole chapter on this in my book

00:24:18.160 it's like i call it the new prejudice it's just been it's just been sort of like under it's it's sort

00:24:23.860 of been hidden in a way but it's like human beings are not okay unless they what have a this

00:24:28.960 they're a spiritual being you know what is wrong with the human primate and here's another thought

00:24:35.060 there's plenty of people that don't think like that though what's that there's there's plenty

00:24:40.200 of people that aren't spiritual and don't believe that that's real that are more part of the natural

00:24:44.680 world but our planet's still mess exactly but they're still doing yeah so altruistic acts happen

00:24:51.900 all the time from people that just care because they're part of this whole species i mean why do we

00:24:58.720 care you know why does caring happen you know i don't think it's because somebody sits around and it

00:25:03.760 comes up they come up with a nice idea you know i think that they're compelled you know

00:25:08.640 there's a compelling there's a connection there's a feeling that's connected but you know why is our

00:25:14.580 world in the shape it is that's one of the reasons why i'm doing my work one of the big problems is

00:25:19.740 religion one of the big problems is that we're identified we have seven billion people that are

00:25:24.560 trapped in their subjective identified with the contents of their subjective and they're they're they haven't

00:25:31.040 even awoken up to themselves as a species and you know darwin's only 150 years old i mean that's like

00:25:38.740 in in the evolutionary timeline that that's like a nanosecond ago so i think that the more that our

00:25:45.080 civilization awakens and validates who they are the wonderful primate they are and they really awaken

00:25:53.800 into that and then they begin to really you know really value the radically curious human beings

00:26:00.580 whom we call scientists that have helped us make quantum leaps you know there was a prayer that did it

00:26:06.740 it's been radically curious human beings that have helped us come out of the dark ages i think we're going

00:26:13.280 to we're going to see ourselves growing into a really um amazing society i mean we're you know we're heading

00:26:21.800 into the to into you know uh star trek land and we're heading into uh seeding the stars you know

00:26:28.820 so we really are like you know i just i think this is just a very essential important stepping stone is

00:26:35.840 that humanity has to wake up as a species and realize that all the subjective experiences that

00:26:42.560 they've been experiencing through spirituality and religion are still there even as a primate but

00:26:49.020 isn't isn't science also a form of religion i don't put much faith in mainstream science whatsoever

00:26:55.040 i think that there is a bigger conspiracy at work so they're not going to really let you know the true

00:27:00.320 origins of humanity and put it out there i mean those are those are pearls well i would disagree

00:27:07.100 um i would say that maybe maybe some we've had bad scientists in the past but um everything that

00:27:14.440 are i mean oh gosh you know i have this i have this on my website um and carl sagan got into this

00:27:21.280 but if you take a look at what science has given us the technology it's given us uh i mean the the

00:27:29.240 medical breakthroughs it's given us now look i'm not saying that science i'm not saying it in the sense

00:27:35.340 of let's hail science as a new religion science is simply a way of thinking about life and not making

00:27:41.720 assumptions and i'm not allowing one person to dominate everybody else through their own subjective

00:27:48.480 perception this is why we have peer review research you know sure and so for every theory there's a

00:27:55.000 counter theory like tesla didn't agree with the relativity theories at all there's bruce bruce lipton's

00:28:02.020 out there rupert sheldrake walter russell there's always a counter theory for everything so what is true

00:28:08.460 exactly well exactly but we know we know certain things that are true because we're seeing it in

00:28:14.000 the evidence that that occurs i mean right now when it comes to evolution we have more evidence for

00:28:21.680 evolution than we have that the world is is no longer flat um and we i mean we actually have dna

00:28:27.940 evidence for it i mean it's absurd i mean people that have not i mean if we're not people still haven't

00:28:32.600 caught up to the amount of evidence we have for evolution but that's just one thing um there's

00:28:38.940 all sorts of things i mean it's just simply a method what continues to work i mean who makes cars

00:28:43.560 we figured out certain cars work better than other cars it doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees about

00:28:48.780 what we know that this certain car works we know that this certain vaccine works we work this certain

00:28:53.840 vaccine doesn't work i don't think it's about developing some sort of oligarchy of scientists i think

00:29:00.060 it's about it's kind of happened that way though unfortunately i think i think that it's peaked

00:29:06.480 out in the past but i also think that there's some amazing scientists in this world some amazing awesome

00:29:12.600 people that that are you know in some ways just spiritually minded and very in tune i mean i know

00:29:19.940 i know a number of personal scientists myself and they're they're they're amazing people you know

00:29:25.280 they're they're just radically curious human beings but the scientific method or the you know

00:29:30.700 it's a sure shot way of not living your life in a way where you're you're taking action on simply

00:29:37.940 assumptions didn't science science come from the church originally though it has a state its origin is

00:29:43.980 in religion uh no movement i'm not you know what i'd have to look into that but from my understanding

00:29:51.960 science was always challenging the church um and and really i could simplify that you know the church

00:29:57.660 has always had like this authoritarian you know think the way we want you to think and uh the root of the

00:30:03.400 heart of science was people thinking for themselves and so they basically disagreed with their dictates

00:30:09.740 and you know if you look at you follow the track of religious thinking it's always based on something

00:30:15.180 that's invisible you know and so people are still doing it now channelers are doing it i mean what

00:30:20.820 a great way to manipulate people as long as it's invisible you don't have to take any responsibility

00:30:24.960 for it and you can you can say anything you want to anybody about whatever and if you ever get

00:30:30.820 challenged with it you don't have to take any responsibility and that's how they've been

00:30:34.140 manipulating human primates for for eons it's same with narcissists you know i mean it's like

00:30:41.400 it's a very manipulative game and very convenient to come from a place of invisible route realities

00:30:49.420 and being certain i think it's very arrogant you know um and i'm not i'm not picking fights with

00:30:56.360 you at all but definitely look into the intervention theory there are so many theories and one thing

00:31:01.820 that i have found about some of the rogue theories is that um typically if you do a little digging with

00:31:09.560 a lot of these rogue theories you'll find that these scientists um already have a bias like they

00:31:16.640 already are dualists they already believe in dualists and they're trying to prove dualism look if somebody

00:31:23.520 comes up with evidence that we're invisible beings operating human bodies that we fly around in other

00:31:29.740 dimensions fine maybe my book will be like you know uh uh maybe it helps people's you know spark more

00:31:36.560 questions but here's the thing 97 of the scientists and these aren't stupid people they're men they're

00:31:44.260 men and women radically curious intelligent men and women that feel 97 of them just in america alone

00:31:53.720 accept evolution as a fact and uh on a macro level micro level evolution is a fact now it's not it's not

00:32:00.920 interesting question on a on a macro level they're still trying to there's still some areas that they

00:32:05.400 need to connect to the dots but i would would love for you to send me the link there and i'm always i'm

00:32:10.820 always i'm interested more interested in truth than what i wish to be true sure yeah so i would love

00:32:15.900 anaerobic microbes the cambrian explosion and miocene apes he puts forth some awesome stuff you have to

00:32:23.000 check out his work okay he's not a rogue scientist and he's not a woo woo spiritual new age guy at all

00:32:29.240 so then what is it to be human uh to be exactly what you are because some people feel that having

00:32:38.160 a spirit is part of being human that it's just another facet of themselves yeah well where does

00:32:44.560 that idea come from well you can't be you can't be sure if it comes from religion well maybe maybe it

00:32:51.920 was part of humans from the beginning well look at our history look at descartes the ghost in the machine

00:32:56.940 sure but there's people that are older than descartes that have i'm sure just because it's

00:33:01.240 not written doesn't mean that people haven't thought about it before well if you look actually

00:33:06.000 go further and further back into our ancient mythos you'll find that many of the definitions

00:33:10.620 for spirit were actually very physical like wind um you'll also find that you look at the cradle

00:33:18.860 of humanity and what we grew out of um we're really kind of growing up out of being infants

00:33:25.320 it's kind of like when you're a child and you have an imaginary friend um you grow up and discover that

00:33:33.120 your imaginary friend isn't real on your own um simply by you know your own experience and what

00:33:40.600 eventually that does is your vast imagination that you've had an opportunity to explore as a child

00:33:47.780 you know if you were raised with parents that were very caring and loving and and allowed you

00:33:52.740 your own autonomy your own subjective autonomy you grow up and you learn for yourself and then you

00:33:58.900 find you become a productive uh human being and you have a vast imagination but you're using it for

00:34:04.120 creativity you're using it for you know uh helping in the best scenario you're using it to create

00:34:10.140 scenario uh create new uh solving problems in the world you know so we have this vast imagination

00:34:17.760 that i say matures from children and so i say it's the same thing as uh as a species you know um

00:34:23.840 you know if you look at all the old ancient mythos i mean nowadays there's just so many things that

00:34:28.780 people believed i mean come on it's it's it's comical it's like children they were children you

00:34:34.100 know we we know that people don't walk on water and and and we know that um uh i mean there's so many

00:34:40.800 stories uh from the past you know um we know that the sun doesn't um go around the earth we know the

00:34:48.640 earth is no longer flat um i mean there's all these things that in all these these stories and mythologies

00:34:54.580 that we used to believe and so now that people humanity has really begun to think for themselves

00:35:00.600 um question reality and not just adopt what were spoon fed from the past um you know i think that

00:35:09.200 we're slowly but surely growing up yeah and there are people who are questioning a lot a lot that's

00:35:13.360 coming out of school because that's another indoctrination center that's basically forcing

00:35:17.180 kids into another world just like religion does yeah the dualism i'm specifically talking about is

00:35:23.220 when somebody teaches a child that they're an invisible being operating a human body however that's

00:35:27.900 brought across i consider that to be uh abusive to a child because the natural human primate has

00:35:35.400 everything it needs it's perfectly happy in its environment and it's very it doesn't need to be

00:35:41.860 split off into a subjective identity and in my opinion when they are um there's problems there i mean

00:35:51.740 you know when we're identified with any any sort of uh aspect within ourself whether it's a a good

00:35:59.500 aspect or a negative aspect and especially through trauma um we begin to see ourselves uh through

00:36:07.920 through that mirror and um you know as we grow up if we're as you know we become more invested into

00:36:15.540 this mirror this whole process you know it needs it it needs to feed to stay alive because you're no

00:36:22.720 longer if you if you're if you're identified with this image of yourself whether i'm a really bad kid

00:36:28.600 or an image of oh i'm a super duper kid um as long as it's an image you're not you're you're you're

00:36:36.420 living you're another way of saying this is being trapped in the mirror and so this is this develops a

00:36:42.740 form of narcissism um but when a child is loved and is playing in the moment and is enjoying the natural

00:36:50.960 world with their parents and they grow up in such a way that they're living in the natural world

00:36:57.400 um the now moment isn't some destination to get to they just naturally are enjoying their

00:37:03.860 intelligence that's unfolding in the moment so that's that's just a little little um just touching

00:37:11.160 a little bit on narcissism and uh why do you think theosophy keeps returning why do we keep going back to

00:37:16.720 it why is mythology full of stories of gods and goddesses time and time again

00:37:20.840 um well it's been inundated in our culture it's it's like i think we're slowly growing out of it but

00:37:29.680 we you know it wasn't too long ago i mean just take go back 100 years ago go back 200 years ago

00:37:35.080 and look what people believed and what they thought about the universe in life go back three or four

00:37:40.840 i mean it's like talk about going into um you know caveman days in regards to consciousness

00:37:48.320 consciousness so we've really done a quantum leap uh you know in the 20th century so yeah why is

00:37:56.160 because you know we've been swimming in it for eons you know we're slowly coming out of it you know

00:38:05.520 do you think evolution is is a mistake is it a plan is it a coincidence what is it

00:38:10.660 it is you know it just is it is life it is life doing what life does and we're going to know more

00:38:20.060 100 years from now and 200 years from now i'm just not interested in making assumptions

00:38:24.780 on the whole game nor do i need the answer right now i would like it but you know we're evolving all

00:38:32.220 i can do is go by what we know and um and try to clear out the things that aren't true that we know

00:38:39.040 aren't true the difference between our fantasies our subjective fantasies fantasies things we want

00:38:44.000 and things that we're learning that um are more accurate to what the universe is so if you have a

00:38:50.520 child where are you going to tell them where they come from came from me and mom the obvious

00:38:58.000 no deeper human origins why why why would i want to invalidate the glory the beauty of of me and her

00:39:07.140 as human primates that that uh uh you know that grew out of the earth i don't need to see that

00:39:14.020 what i loved about this i don't no longer need a concept called gaia i don't need ideas spiritual

00:39:19.580 concepts as if i'm separate and need these ideas to make me feel good i know we have the dna evidence

00:39:25.560 now i know i grew out of the earth i know who i am and so yes and i can and i also as a primate i'm a

00:39:33.480 creator too i can create children i can i can find i can be with somebody and i can create a child

00:39:39.180 well you know these philosophical ideas about i mean it's kind of funny it's so obvious to me it's

00:39:45.260 like where'd you come from you know my mom and dad but i think i also have a chapter called

00:39:50.120 obsession with the invisible where i've noticed this uh too and again i'm not somebody that wasn't

00:39:57.660 a spiritual person who's coming come into this from the outside you know i i know this stuff very

00:40:03.820 well i've been in it myself this is just what's happened to me this is the awakening that i've had

00:40:08.160 out from you know 30 years in this so so you know there's an obsession with the visible i say as

00:40:15.240 well um where life for some reason just can't be what it is this is energy it's all energy and i

00:40:23.240 like to tell i like to say to people sometimes i go okay well when you leave your body and you go

00:40:27.840 into another dimension or you go up into heaven you know what are you going to do then when you see

00:40:32.540 the forms there you're going to go well there's got to be something invisible behind these forms

00:40:36.500 and then you go into the next phase of it and i mean where do you end up to where it's all clear

00:40:41.920 and there's nothing you can't see anything you're just pure energy i mean you know we could speculate

00:40:46.660 forever and we could also speculate about you know was the universe made from nothing but that

00:40:53.880 argument ends too because nothing can't make i mean if there's nothing there's there has to be a

00:40:58.360 something to make something so it can't be made from nothing because there's nothing there so you

00:41:03.840 know i'm perfectly happy saying that i don't know but i i do know more and more that i am nature

00:41:13.220 i'm not separate and in fact i would argue that i don't really have there's no me that's in control

00:41:21.780 of any of this as well do you think we have an unconscious self

00:41:26.660 oh i think our whole body is the mind so i think how do we how do we prove that

00:41:34.120 how do i prove it yeah how do we prove we have an unconscious self

00:41:39.900 well i i wouldn't use that terminology i mean we we know that there are there are lots of things

00:41:47.020 functioning that you i mean you're not you know you're you're not like while you're talking to me

00:41:54.120 you're listening to me deciding each heartbeat right no right yeah and so you're not really

00:41:59.700 choosing breath you're being grieved would that be yeah that's an unconscious act i guess but it's

00:42:06.720 it must be conscious in there somewhere right and so this is a big part of what i talk about in the

00:42:11.540 book about a volitional self and this is also one of the big great realizations of that veda

00:42:17.680 you know and these teachers such as nisargadatta and ramesh ramana is that they're really ultimately

00:42:24.680 we find there is no volitional i uh and uh there is no author no personal author and when you begin to

00:42:32.420 look at some of um some of the brain science uh like some of the some of the research out of the max

00:42:39.440 plank institute in germany where they found out that are that we actually become conscious you know just

00:42:45.700 after um the uh region of the brain fires off uh for that particular thought um so when you get

00:42:56.840 into you know one of the things about the the spiritual self and whether whatever term you know

00:43:02.780 whatever um version of it is you know whether it's the mormons or you know uh islam or it's

00:43:10.700 uh christianity or it's um theosophy or whatever it is you have entered into a volitional self

00:43:19.580 that's choosing to come here uh chose if it if it if experiences rape it chose to be raped if someone

00:43:27.640 else if if uh it it you know it makes it um explanations for the world like the holocaust

00:43:35.240 all those people chose to to go through that experience and um so to me this is dangerous

00:43:43.140 ideology and trying to paint the picture that you know once you have a volitional self that's in

00:43:49.900 charge of the game you have all manner of um of sort of see it subject to subjective delusions that

00:43:59.440 arise out of that and the you know we could just take totally's power of now when you really get

00:44:06.680 into that space really understand that i just took it to the next step i said well uh how about i'm just

00:44:13.300 a primate and then for some for some reason by me admitting that i realized wow it was like i had a big

00:44:22.300 load taken off of my shoulders i was free to be a human primate it was just free i didn't have

00:44:29.340 to compare myself to any spiritual teacher i didn't have to be on the treadmill and i because i had

00:44:36.000 been in adveda for years prior to this realization i had already had the experience of that what is

00:44:42.820 occurring has nothing to do with the like the idea that we have free will i i think that that is an

00:44:52.740 illusion although it's a persistent one and we use it and we function in it

00:44:59.340 but i think when we really get down to it um we aren't in control of any of this we are actually

00:45:06.960 life itself as the natural world having a primate experience but what we tend to do in religious

00:45:14.820 thinking is we call it a higher self um and so we assign it to a higher self that whole surrendering

00:45:22.740 but see i don't need any of the spiritual teaching to to redefine the same experience from a natural

00:45:30.160 perspective so do you think that there might be an active conspiracy to bamboozle or current view of

00:45:35.860 spirituality a lot of people have talked about the invention of jesus christ for instance um well

00:45:42.940 there's a lot of uh evidence for um that jesus is the total fabrication

00:45:48.620 you know a lot of a lot of evidence for that the christ conspiracy is a great book and there's a new

00:45:55.880 guy out that uh joseph atwill uh is that his name yeah roman conspiracy to invent jesus it goes into the

00:46:04.140 flavians and the jewish sects yeah right but to me it's so it's so silly this jesus thing i mean

00:46:10.560 really a 2 000 year old jewish zombie that's living up in outer space i mean we each one of us

00:46:16.540 are so amazing just in ourselves why are we still pointing to this guy did anyone ever consider that

00:46:22.840 maybe jesus wishes he was you you know each one of us is the only version that that that that life is

00:46:32.320 in this moment why are we assigning everything that's wonderful about ourselves to something

00:46:37.660 invisible really i mean if you do something good it's god if you do something good it's my angels

00:46:44.920 and my spirits but anything bad has to do with you as a primate and i argue that i i am saying that no

00:46:52.960 human primates are amazing creatures and all of these things that we project and we hand over to the

00:47:00.000 invisible metaphysical whatever all that's showing me is that human primates have an amazing creative

00:47:05.680 imagination and i think they should start taking credit for who they are and stop giving it to

00:47:12.520 invisible realms that invisible realm is really your subjective experience it's just that your

00:47:17.520 thoughts are transparent you know it's kind of like the chicken or the egg the spirit or the body

00:47:24.140 how did we come to have a concept of self at all well yeah i think when we became cognitive

00:47:29.540 of you know like we die you know it's brain development you know you know we grew this the the the spiritual

00:47:38.180 the spiritual self the dualism that you know this uh came along as we evolved you know what i mean

00:47:45.280 was we became self-conscious so we we just took all of our like thoughts and all of our inner stuff

00:47:51.660 that's going on we just created we got trapped in it we don't know what we knew now

00:47:55.940 so we we created stories and myths and i mean it's kind of obvious you know if you look at just

00:48:02.400 joseph campbell's work you know you see what's common about all cultures around the world is that they all

00:48:09.820 have a brain and that they all have an imagination and they also you'll notice that their um their

00:48:18.460 stories have are reflections of their environment you know yeah so whatever environment they grew up like

00:48:25.240 the native americans is a beautiful tradition you know a beautiful tradition uh where you know they

00:48:31.720 they they took their subjective jewels that they learned and they passed them on to their children

00:48:38.040 which is a tragedy that the new age went in and um really uh really uh plagiarized

00:48:47.280 that tradition and i actually have a little section in my book um where i touch on that

00:48:55.240 um but i think that also the reason why um reason why americans did that and grab hold of you in there

00:49:05.260 of the native american tradition is because you know we we're inundated with christianity and

00:49:11.700 evolution for the most part i think is just not understood so western man doesn't feel connected

00:49:20.080 and this is why i'm saying this is such an important message that we understand who we are

00:49:25.800 as a species and that we grew out of the same genetic tree and we grew out of the earth i think

00:49:31.740 it's i think it's one of the most beautiful things i've ever heard and um so then we feel connected but

00:49:39.480 it isn't a story or an idea we have evidence we have overwhelming evidence for this yeah well there's

00:49:45.060 evidence of all kinds of bones that have been around and even overlapping time frames of different

00:49:49.840 creatures and human-like ape-like so there's a lot a lot more mystery than we know or that

00:49:55.760 we've solved i wouldn't say that we have it all figured out no no there's a there's a lot of fun

00:50:01.260 things to speculate about but i'm what i'm saying is in regards to to human evolution it is really

00:50:06.320 not i mean it's not something scientists are thinking around sitting around going hmm is this

00:50:10.200 true or not i mean it just isn't this is a this is a very very well established uh fact about our

00:50:16.740 origins yeah because it seems like the dawn of consciousness seemed to occur pretty fast from

00:50:21.340 evolutionary perspective tools art rituals etc so what happened what sparked it off for millions of

00:50:27.740 years there's a pre-human ape-like creature and then bang we have civilization right the hell was that

00:50:35.020 well you know what's fascinating is on a on a evolutionary timeline mankind just showed up a few

00:50:41.260 seconds ago yeah and we think we think we're so special you know what i mean i mean i think we're

00:50:50.620 special as i think we need to understand ourselves as special as a species and we really need to love

00:50:56.440 each other and care for each other and and really support each other and really see ourselves surviving

00:51:01.160 as a species and and be looking towards the future to see the stars because most likely the universe is

00:51:07.560 teeming with life you know evolution and i would i would be shocked if i mean it's only obvious to me

00:51:13.360 that it's it's it's happening all over the place so i think that's just the general direction um

00:51:19.340 but uh so how would you redefine metaphysical realities in light of this material world

00:51:26.180 that it's being created by our biology

00:51:30.900 okay and we just we just misunderstood we just misunderstand it you know something as simple as

00:51:38.300 the whole create your own reality business you know i mean sure you focus on what you want you'll begin

00:51:43.940 seeing the things that you uh that you want not not like they all said and popped out of nowhere

00:51:48.020 magically um we're pattern seekers so if you decide you want a yellow bw

00:51:54.260 and especially if you really want a yellow bw like like you really want one you know you have a strong

00:52:02.700 emotional investment into that all of a sudden you will magically begin noticing them everywhere

00:52:08.640 now the person who is is metaphysical and has stepped into an area where they don't they're

00:52:18.460 believing their subjective fantasies more than the natural world may be tempted to say that the

00:52:25.000 universe manifests them out of nowhere just like the person that says when the moon i don't look at

00:52:29.860 the moon the moon's no longer there um there's a there's a wide there's a i mean an easy way to look at

00:52:37.960 this is you know if you spread your your your arms out both directions and on the left side you will

00:52:43.460 call the sane people and on the right side you'll call these crazy people well we put crazy people

00:52:48.400 we lock them up in crazy houses because they don't know the difference between their subjective and

00:52:52.620 the natural world they'll walk up to their mother and say hi you're billy i need to kill you you know

00:52:59.700 so we lock those people away to protect ourselves and on the other spectrum you have people that are

00:53:06.380 well grounded in the natural world and they understand the real world here the actual facts of the real

00:53:12.580 world and that but they're also extremely creative human beings as well and then there's a whole

00:53:17.560 you know um there's a whole spectrum in the middle of that so i'm all for having a blast with exploring

00:53:26.780 um you know exploring metaphysics but i i i can do it now from a from a more solid place you know i say

00:53:36.500 you want to you want to manifest stuff try manifesting an apple by three o'clock in the afternoon

00:53:41.760 given to you by a particular person uh try taking a trip into the desert sitting on top of a sand dune

00:53:48.780 and seeing if you can manifest a veggie burrito uh you know you could start playing around with

00:53:54.820 these things and see exactly where where this stuff actually works and doesn't work but typically

00:54:00.720 people i i find they read they take in a teacher's teachings and they swallow the whole thing

00:54:08.640 and so i think that one can easily get caught up in um manifestation and get very disappointed

00:54:16.020 after a while hey what do you think about the psychic phenomena what category do you put that into

00:54:23.000 uh simply that when i move when i when i uh let's just say if i was to meet you right now

00:54:31.700 uh in person okay immediately my and what i call my mind is my entire body is going to be reading all

00:54:40.080 sorts of things about you facial expression eyes there's going to be a feeling a sense all sorts of

00:54:46.640 things going on this is my entire biology which has been around a long time reading yours and vice versa

00:54:54.220 i so i don't need to call myself a psychic i don't need to create invisible realms i can simply be

00:55:01.160 you know know that i am this that i am this intelligent amazing physical creature that can pick up

00:55:10.160 cues and clues about you very sensitive about its environment i just think that we underplay our

00:55:16.840 natural um innate animal sensitivities and we gave it and we assign it to invisible stuff but for some

00:55:24.840 reason we talk about natural intelligence that we're we're born with a lot of us wouldn't know how

00:55:29.420 to just instinctively build shelter or what berries we can eat we don't have what animals all seem to

00:55:36.680 have on this planet we seem very much out of place humanity well i don't know if that would be the

00:55:42.660 necessary conclusion i mean we evolved in such a way to uh to build things and uh we've been doing

00:55:49.360 this a long time that's why we now have skyscrapers so do you think technology is transforming humanity

00:55:56.300 is it taking us farther away from what's human no i think it's evolution they don't think there's one

00:56:01.900 single thing that's not a part of a whole picture we're gonna learn you know we're making mistakes

00:56:08.500 all the time it's the nature of natural selection you know we're making big mistakes hopefully we

00:56:13.300 don't destroy ourselves hopefully we make it to being an advanced civilization and we really start

00:56:18.420 seeing the stars you know but there's no guarantees um that's that's i think a really important thing to

00:56:24.520 understand because your spiritual realities always seem to come up with some sort of guarantee and i think

00:56:29.160 it really gets people to it relieves them somehow and relaxes them and gives them an excuse to not

00:56:36.960 have to do anything and i really think that uh once we wake up and realize that we're really on a boat

00:56:43.260 and it isn't as safe as we think it is that uh maybe we're going to start really taking action and

00:56:49.140 really waking up you know i think it's absurd that we still have we still have um uh our own species

00:56:55.660 starving to death you know i don't know how many how many of our species has died during this

00:57:01.000 interview it's absurd we could fix this problem but as long as you got people that are waiting for

00:57:06.220 jesus to handle the problem as long as you got people that are saying oh this person chose this

00:57:10.860 so that they could you know um experience starvation i'm just saying that all of this stuff has not

00:57:18.240 done anything for us and i don't really need to really i mean i just know i can make a change and

00:57:24.160 make a decision today right here i mean i don't have to have all the answers if i want to fix

00:57:28.460 something in my house i can do it i can make a decision i can do it and i think that humanity

00:57:33.440 needs to wake up out of the dream world and look at their home here and take care of it i mean what

00:57:40.000 what part of john lennon's you know imagine there's no heaven did we not get yeah unfortunately starvation

00:57:46.940 happens in nature it's brutal out there herbert spencer survival of the fittest right so either you have

00:57:54.100 to learn to make your food or freaking apply yourself and try and do something and not wait

00:57:59.380 around for everyone else right well the beauty of it too is we have the sciences of epigenetics and

00:58:04.620 blank brain plasticity and so we're learning that our thoughts actually do affect our evolution and

00:58:10.500 our genes and so you know i think that is why it's so important that people expand their minds radically

00:58:17.180 and really start to step out of their comfort zone and really begin to live their lives vastly

00:58:22.520 um i have a friend of mine recently who uh actually not recently but uh 2012 she hiked from the pct trail

00:58:30.860 from mexico to canada it changed her life 2660 miles you know it's like how many people are busting out of

00:58:39.800 the herd mentality and really living their life you know and really making radical changes you know how many

00:58:46.180 right and how many and i think i think this needs i think this is what i want you know this is part of

00:58:51.520 what i'm doing is to spark that you know how about come up with the idea that you're going to solve a

00:58:56.340 big aspect of world hunger you know unfortunately people wait for government they wait for some other

00:59:02.640 authority to do it for the world yeah and they tend to also blame government when in my opinion it isn't

00:59:09.500 the few uh elite that are the problem it's the seven billion people that are asleep and so i'd like to say

00:59:15.140 if you really are upset about it then get up and do something sure exactly i mean i you know during

00:59:20.540 the day i have a irrigation business and you know a year ago i wrote a book and i'm you know i'm working

00:59:28.000 and i'm trying to do something with this you know and i don't have like i don't have a lot of money i don't

00:59:33.520 have you know i mean i'm i'm pretty much you know paycheck you know bill to bill and i i utilize my time

00:59:42.060 and i'm just saying that that we all can do really amazing things if we put our mind to it and the

00:59:48.300 world's really waiting for us to make changes and that's the only only time we've ever really seen any

00:59:52.820 real change is when people actually did something you know it isn't about sitting there and sending out

00:59:58.540 good thoughts you know i instead of taking the time to sit there and send out good thoughts why

01:00:03.560 don't you take that time out and move yourself in the direction of doing something yeah yeah people

01:00:09.640 are all excited about russell brand's utopia meanwhile fukushima is spreading global radiation and spewing

01:00:15.800 death everywhere it touches you know exactly exactly yeah thanks for sending me that it was interesting

01:00:22.240 it's funny because i clicked right in the middle of the video and it landed right on that one spot where

01:00:27.900 he was talking about that i mean what what a hell for people that don't know we could play the clip

01:00:32.840 russell brand is advocating joining church and state and he's a very new agey kind of guy so think of

01:00:40.340 where that could go eventually that would be what thought police oh right yeah and it sounded to me like

01:00:46.360 he's been i mean i don't know but it sounded very david eikish because he was talking i forget what

01:00:51.560 word he used about uh he he called his body some monkey called it a puppy some sort of puppy like

01:00:59.420 something similar to flesh bag or something like that and i just you know and the way i look at it

01:01:04.000 from what i write in my book is that is that is called divine narcissism that is that that is the the

01:01:09.860 invisible identity that that that the primate is trapped in and this identity the primate becomes the

01:01:18.020 identity and the identity basically subverts the body to stay alive it's a form of narcissism

01:01:25.940 and so it's always subjugating the body and i also think this is why we uh this is why we harm animals

01:01:33.920 and this is why we harm our planet because and i think i this is you know this is my theory you know

01:01:39.060 that we start it starts here with this inner narcissism and when we begin to really really like

01:01:45.000 um uh assign source to this beautiful uh primate biology that we are um that i think that uh we

01:01:59.280 begin to have a lot more compassion for animals a lot more compassion for everything in the natural

01:02:04.460 world we stop making excuses you know it's fine you want to believe if you want to believe that that

01:02:10.200 that jesus is going to you know come get you later or you want to believe that you're going to fly in a

01:02:14.980 spaceship when you die that's fine i think we should we all have our subjective rights those are very

01:02:19.840 very important you know to have our own whatever our fantasy or whatever our conviction is that's

01:02:24.560 fine where i step in is i don't think certain things should be taught to children and i don't

01:02:28.480 think certain things should be uh taught in making uh people are making policy decisions you know i don't

01:02:34.720 want to i don't want somebody who's who's who believes in armageddon to be making policy decisions

01:02:39.460 yeah and i think that a child should grow up to a cognitive age and that the parents should

01:02:44.220 respectfully say this is what we believe we believe that you know daryl anka channels

01:02:51.540 bashar was an invisible being from somewhere else or we believe that you know jesus you know god

01:02:57.760 requires human sacrifice and then the child can think about it and go okay well i i you know and

01:03:03.840 there's nothing wrong with that but instead what you have is you have programming you know that old

01:03:09.380 scripture in the bible train up a child in the way it should go when it was all when it's older will

01:03:13.520 not depart from that well yeah that's called that's called programming and so that's why i say in my

01:03:19.680 book that's child abuse so i don't know if you've looked into gertriff but he claims that humans are

01:03:25.340 born without a soul so do you think and then we make it throughout the course of our lifetime so is

01:03:30.620 there no soul involved either or is consciousness soul i don't know um is it is it possible that

01:03:37.860 each one of us are born and we develop a soul and then when we die somehow this invisible soul floats

01:03:44.400 off the brain into another dimension well if it's energy energy doesn't die no energy um goes back into

01:03:52.460 stardust you know when we when we die we we completely um you know we go back into stardust

01:03:59.220 so yeah energy is always changing form um but we um i think a lot of this soul stuff comes from a sense

01:04:10.180 and belief of separation you know which i think is inherited from our dualistic tradition well some

01:04:16.900 people claim that there was a catastrophic event that actually happened on the planet to create this

01:04:21.380 schism within us who's that barbara hen cloud talks about it huh yeah yeah i know that uh drum below

01:04:30.220 no keys a dick also talks on these lines of various things but um i just from an evolutionary point of

01:04:38.600 view with the amount of evidence that we have okay one can clearly see understand who they are as a

01:04:50.220 natural human primate and can clearly from a just a just a human point of view right now you know uh

01:04:57.720 in 2013 can can know that they have grown out of the earth and they have they share a genetic

01:05:07.740 connection with all of life on the planet okay so just that all by itself is a is a is a whole bunch

01:05:13.400 of you know a whole sense of belonging i just don't think that most people have really really inhaled that

01:05:18.860 and really comprehended it so what what's the need to have an invisible counterpart what's the need of

01:05:27.360 uh constantly being obsessed with this invisible um i i think that really a lot of this comes from

01:05:36.360 the fear of death death anxiety because if you think about it if indeed you are nature

01:05:43.460 you are born you grow and you deconstruct okay well there was there was no one separate from any of

01:05:55.000 that you are this you are this life that you're seeing so you are born you live and you deconstruct

01:06:04.240 you're not separate from any of this you're stardust animated as a human primate on planet earth

01:06:11.580 i think it's beautiful there's no separation but the minute we enter into this whole thing of

01:06:17.260 invisible counterpart it's just it's kind of like oh really i mean here we go i mean i don't mind

01:06:23.780 sitting over having a cocktail and speculating about all i think it's fun but i don't think it's a

01:06:29.980 necessary thing to be angst about because everybody like we go to sleep at night no one chooses to go

01:06:35.860 to sleep sleep happens you know hunger happens there's very little that you have anything to do

01:06:42.640 with here and the same with the returning back into stardust so i really think it's it's really what

01:06:49.600 the ancient traditions when they get into no self the void once we really awaken

01:06:55.420 out from the conceptualized self and identification with the self that we are really free and it really

01:07:04.420 doesn't matter what the heck happens at that point so if we don't redefine god and spirituality will the

01:07:10.680 human race survive uh i don't know we'll find out but i know that um it's important it's important that

01:07:20.340 we wake up into into the to the the the moment we wake up into the real world and begin to stop

01:07:27.600 leaving all of the problems to authorities you know we need to stop it we need to wake up we need to grow

01:07:37.780 up educate ourselves get involved begin to change the world and way and realize that it isn't you know

01:07:45.000 um it hasn't shown itself in the past i mean they've been waiting for jesus to return forever

01:07:52.480 you know and religion's kind of a no-brainer when you really look at it nowadays so it's like i just

01:07:58.160 think that we need to we need to really see that we can make changes by growing up and making the

01:08:05.200 decision to do so winding down here but subjective objective how can we really be sure what is what

01:08:12.500 memories feelings beliefs it seems like can all be it can all be contorted depending on where you're

01:08:16.760 standing i'm thinking kind of of michael talbot's holographic universe how can we be sure that what

01:08:22.900 we're feeling and seeing is real where do you feel it i'm asking you well i'm answering the question

01:08:32.400 with a question what are you feeling right now about what subject about apes everything in me everything

01:08:38.800 in me screams no that is not where i came from all right so how does that make you feel uh it just

01:08:45.720 makes me feel like there's a separation when i talk to you because we have this big gaping hole between

01:08:50.800 us okay but how does it feel feel to you does it does it feel a good thing like it's good that we're

01:08:58.020 stirring things up and disagreeing or does it feel sad no i think it's a good thing to disagree i think

01:09:04.760 it's a good thing to bring things out and actually look at them of course okay so you can't really

01:09:09.560 define one feeling right now well it's a feeling that whenever i hear you say apes everything in me

01:09:17.620 says untrue are you ashamed are you ashamed of being an ape no if that was true then fine i'd deal with it

01:09:26.740 but from well what if everything that's screaming in my in my dna the cells in my body that are

01:09:33.900 constructing the various tissues and the organs all of them are screaming no panspermia feels feels

01:09:40.920 right to me something was distributed here through asteroids comets planetoids something else happened

01:09:47.600 on this planet but it ain't darwin so you wouldn't look at a primate cousin and be proud to share the

01:09:55.460 that that that genetic lineage you'd feel ashamed well i just i don't even think it's real so that

01:10:02.620 question doesn't it doesn't work for me interesting okay well my point with um with what you're feeling

01:10:10.820 was to define a feeling which the feeling could be i don't i'm feeling a nothing when you ask that

01:10:15.840 question and then the next question would be well where are you feeling that nothing well i'm kind of

01:10:20.700 feeling it in my chest so the answer to your question when it comes to what's subjective objective

01:10:26.500 um i could really you know if we had more time i mean really just walk you through just um answering

01:10:33.440 those questions and you know you can see that uh even a thought if you close your eyes and you think

01:10:39.600 of a particular thought like a blue a green triangle or a dog and then you point to it and you open your

01:10:47.560 eyes you'll find out that you're pointing somewhere within proximity of uh of your head most most for

01:10:53.800 most people so um yes the subjectivity is is a local phenomenon and then objectivity well you know

01:11:02.260 one can just go out and you know walk into a wall it's it's it's a consistent uh information uh you can put

01:11:11.320 about 10 people run into a wall and every one of them will hit it hard and fall to the ground mostly

01:11:17.860 so and as you wrote in your book t quantum physics is basically quackery right no not at all no i think

01:11:28.180 i think how it's defined through the new age uh uh how it's been uh contorted uh is is wrong um

01:11:37.140 there you know quantum physics is quantum physics it's amazing science and look we've got dark

01:11:43.420 matter you know 90 of our of our of our universe we can't even see does that validate everything that

01:11:49.980 that theosophy says and that there's invisible beings flying around or that there's you know no

01:11:54.420 aliens out there or you know it doesn't it just means that that's what it is we're still learning

01:11:59.380 about it most likely the universe is teeming with life but that those life forms evolved as well on

01:12:05.060 those planetary systems so um quantum physics of course is what it is it's a it's a solid science

01:12:12.620 and uh but the problem is with one of the metaphysical communities they take that which

01:12:17.020 is on a quantum level and they apply it to a micro level they apply it to a macro level

01:12:22.120 and that's where they get all screwed up with it and um there was a uh debate between deepak chopra

01:12:29.700 and sam harris and michael shirmer and i forget the the woman's name a very beautiful um uh sage-like

01:12:37.780 woman uh she's new age new age forget her name um but anyway and it was kind of embarrassing for deepak

01:12:44.860 chopra because they really they really had to correct him on what he was throwing out there with

01:12:50.420 science and he says you know it takes a long time to understand science and to understand these sciences

01:12:56.140 you know particular sciences so to throw anything just stuff that people don't know out into an

01:13:03.300 audience to make your point is really i think disingenuous to to the audience but he but sam

01:13:10.820 sam harris was explaining to him how he had got this particular part wrong with quantum physics and i'd

01:13:16.400 have to read what i wrote again but point anyway anyway it's a solid science yeah it's just taken out of

01:13:22.300 context many times have you been following the ancient aliens series on history channel or we've

01:13:28.780 had a lot of those guests on red ice as well do you think there is life out there oh oh absolutely

01:13:34.240 absolutely i mean i'd have no proof of it but it to look at the life that's teeming on earth i mean

01:13:39.380 just the way nature does what it does we live in this you know absurdly massive universe so um most

01:13:48.580 likely it's teeming with life i think yeah it said that a couple times in the past hour and i i have

01:13:56.320 also i looked at is any see anytime i look at something like ancient aliens i'll also look at

01:14:02.520 debunking ancient aliens now whereas before i would never do that now i look at both sides of the picture

01:14:07.860 because i'm more interested in what's true than i am and what and thinking for myself than i am and what

01:14:12.080 i wish is true and i have a lot of information on my website uh unspirituality.com um i have uh a lot

01:14:20.020 of information about uh zachariah sitchin where a lot of a lot of uh new age ideology came out of

01:14:26.900 sure yeah we know who he is kitchen yeah and we actually i actually have some information on there

01:14:31.880 and how from actual sumerian scholars who show where he actually got the actual text wrong yeah like

01:14:38.100 sitchin was wrong.com i think or something like yeah but i see the thing of it is i'm not trying to

01:14:44.700 be right and make others wrong i'm not i'm not really interested in that i'm interested in what's

01:14:49.840 true more than i am what i wish to be true and that's been really my my heart my whole life i i'm

01:14:55.760 you know i'm not where i'm at now because i thought it would be a really good idea to disagree with all

01:15:01.940 the spiritualists you know i'm just i'm just compelled by what i'm learning you know and so

01:15:08.960 yeah all righty well when do you think we can see macroevolution when when will we see a dog

01:15:16.880 evolving into another kind of species a non-dog well i don't know how to i mean evolution is so

01:15:25.920 tremendously slow you know we're so busy thinking about invisible realms i think we should you know people

01:15:31.420 should take a good six months sit down just meditate on evolution six million years you know

01:15:37.100 4.6 billion years i think it's fascinating i think it'll slow us down i think it'll get i think we'll

01:15:43.940 be in a meditative state just contemplating evolution life is very sure very slow very you know i mean you

01:15:52.800 want to you want to you can call it god whatever you want to call it but it's very sure and very slow

01:15:57.540 and we're a tiny tiny tiny little blip in the evolutionary continuum yeah so maybe some aliens

01:16:04.500 did come to earth and terraform everything and change the planet's environment never know well

01:16:10.380 sure i mean if we find evidence for that why not actually we have the ana anaerobic microbes look

01:16:16.640 into that lloyd pi cambrian explosion i mean these these are amazing these anaerobic microbes that

01:16:21.800 basically produce oxygen but they don't need it so this could have given birth to the cambrian

01:16:26.600 explosion which lloyd pi gets into sure um i'm open for i'm more open for a parent race having

01:16:32.620 seated us um but i'm fascinated uh with the the evidence that's come forth with evolution and i and

01:16:39.400 i really think it's important that people understand how much evidence we have um but also remain open

01:16:45.340 you know remain open to what's possible if we're interested in what's true you know rather than what

01:16:49.780 we want is true we'll be less likely to get caught up in trying to validate our core beliefs and that's

01:16:56.660 usually what gets people in trouble but um yeah it's a fun you know this is fun i mean we're living

01:17:03.300 in a time we've got information at our fingertips you know and we can explore and grow and and uh i mean

01:17:09.760 just the internet's just fascinating isn't it yes it is well thank you christopher for coming on i

01:17:15.360 appreciate your time thank you lana for inviting us so much can you please give out your website too

01:17:20.960 and let everyone know about your book sure it's unspirituality.com and i have a lot of tools uh

01:17:27.520 actually not tools i have a lot of information on there for um pretty much a lot of the stuff that

01:17:32.240 i've looked at that brought me to writing the book um and then my book is called unspirituality

01:17:38.280 permission to be human and it's on amazon and you can also if you go to the website uh you'll see

01:17:45.200 right at the top of the kindle and the paperback version and then there's um i have uh links from

01:17:50.460 different countries as well that they can connect in and and check out the book all righty thank you

01:17:56.860 i'd encourage everyone to listen and watch lloyd pye's detailed presentations on intervention theory

01:18:01.460 which syncs up nicely with the panspermia theory and also the cosmic ancestry theory a new theory that

01:18:07.040 elaborates on panspermia pertaining to evolution and the origin of life on earth it holds that life

01:18:12.280 on earth was seeded from space and that life's evolution to higher forms depends on genetic

01:18:16.940 programs that come from space it's a wholly scientific testable theory for which evidence

01:18:21.460 is accumulating it would also make sense as to why isolated cultures all across the globe have built

01:18:26.280 sculptures made art and have told stories of extraterrestrials and events in space it seems the truth is

01:18:32.080 somewhere in between mythology and nature personally i don't believe for one darwinian minute that i came

01:18:37.980 from an ape see you

01:18:39.120 got killed by 10 million pounds of sludge from new york and new jersey

01:19:03.220 this monday's mine

01:19:08.860 this monday's gone to heaven

01:19:09.460 this monday's gone to heaven

01:19:19.060 this monday's gone to heaven

01:19:24.460 dislob

01:19:32.100 In the sky

01:19:33.360 Got sucked in a hole

01:19:37.240 Now there's a hole in the sky

01:19:39.540 And the ground's not cold

01:19:45.460 And if the ground's not cold

01:19:47.460 Everything is gonna burn

01:19:49.840 Well I'll take turns

01:19:51.780 I'll get mine too

01:19:53.400 This Monday's going to happen

01:19:57.260 This Monday's going to happen

01:20:01.360 This Monday's going to happen

01:20:05.440 This Monday's going to happen

01:20:09.620 And I'll get you

01:20:11.500 If a man's fine

01:20:30.800 If a man is fine

01:20:32.800 If a man is fine

01:20:34.880 Then the devil is six

01:20:37.020 Then the devil is six

01:20:39.060 And the devil is six

01:20:41.400 And if the devil is six

01:20:45.280 Then the God is seven

01:20:47.220 Then the God is seven

01:20:49.240 Then the God is seven

01:20:51.200 This month is going to happen

01:21:00.260 This month is gone to heaven

01:21:07.000 This month is gone to heaven

01:21:11.220 This one is gone to heaven

01:21:15.280 This one is gone to heaven

01:21:19.460 This one is gone to heaven

01:21:23.600 This one is gone to heaven

Radio 3Fourteen - November 06, 2013

Unspirituality_ Permission to be Human

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