Radio 3Fourteen - Voluntary _ Non Violent Communication

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:00:30.000 This is Radio 314 on the Red Ice Radio Network.

00:01:00.000 Or nonviolent communication in order to produce greater inner and interpersonal, intellectual, and empathetic equilibrium.

00:01:07.660 Did you get that?

00:01:08.860 Well, without saying anything further, I'll bring on Daryl to explain.

00:01:12.500 Welcome, Daryl. Thanks for coming on the program.

00:01:15.440 Thank you.

00:01:16.460 So give us an introduction into who you are and what drew you to the study of voluntary or nonviolent communication.

00:01:22.980 Well, what drew me into all of this, let's see, it really did very much for me start with trying to take a reading on the many messed up factors of the world.

00:01:36.300 This is a couple decades ago, essentially.

00:01:38.820 And I went through various series of New Age-y type books, such as The Celestine Prophecy, and trying to essentially see some of the bearing witness of the problems of the world.

00:01:53.660 Another one, The Story of B, the other one, Ishmael, these are Daniel Quinn books.

00:02:00.400 I called them bearing witness books, books that essentially were bearing witness to what the authors were contending were the problems in the world.

00:02:09.680 And as time went on, eventually, the internet happened.

00:02:13.800 And then when I moved here to the island of Hawaii, high-speed internet happened for me, personally.

00:02:20.840 And with that, that began unzipping more than just these various, I would say, metaphysical and highly out-there components that were being explored by the authors that I was looking into.

00:02:34.900 And it began to go a bit further, more into the realm of the actual political assumptions that I had previously made.

00:02:43.460 I found essentially the work of Jan Erwin of Gnostic Media, and he was the one to not just introduce me to the trivium method of critical thinking, as many other people were introduced through him and his work, but also he introduced me to Brett Vinat of the School Sucks podcast.

00:03:02.920 And it was there that I quickly saw that there was something called the non-aggression principle.

00:03:10.920 There were steps leading towards understanding how people could live in harmony with each other, minus actual coercion, which would require people to actually define what coercion is.

00:03:22.720 And so these were all these logical steps of understanding these things, just going through bearing witness, where I just essentially am thinking of a concept and absorbing my own internal emotional response to that, but not really having any action plan attached to it.

00:03:38.580 Then I was given the trivium method, which we'll get into at some point, which is just essentially an explicit or very understandable, explainable method of critical thinking, of fact-checking, of a methodology of knowing and understanding or learning, and then eventually teaching any particular subject.

00:03:58.960 There was still a problem in even understanding the logical fallacy lists was when I saw myself or anyone else communicate to someone else when they were using a logical fallacy.

00:04:10.720 There was a defensiveness or, I would have to say, disagreeable emotional responses that were usually happening.

00:04:20.180 And I saw that there were limitations to this methodology, which then, through Brett Vinat, he introduced me to Wes Bertrand of CompleteLiberty.com.

00:04:30.280 And there, that was my introduction to nonviolent communication, a completely dovetailing method of essentially empathetically communicating to people.

00:04:40.220 So this was a process of the last five years of finding and putting these systems together.

00:04:46.460 Do you know who it was who actually coined the term voluntary or nonviolent communication?

00:04:50.360 Well, nonviolent communication was, as far as I know, coined by Marshall Rosenberg, the student of Carl Rogers, who essentially, as far as I can tell, took the 19 major points of Carl Rogers and very quickly connected the dots between two very important ones.

00:05:09.080 That being the emotional response within an individual and the motivating factors, which at first in 72, he called action-oriented wants, W-A-N-T-S.

00:05:21.820 And later on, by 92, he had that codified into the word needs, which was essentially referring to the motivating factors such as values, desires, and physiological or ephemeral needs that were the genesis or the cause of any individual's emotions.

00:05:42.680 So essentially, he was the one to do that.

00:05:44.920 But when I was speaking with Richard Grove over at tragedyandhope.com, another place that I spend a bunch of time at, I heard him directly codify it as voluntary communication.

00:05:56.220 And I was like, yep, that sounds great to me.

00:05:59.620 Now, before we get into the four Ds of disconnected communication, what would you call the type of communication most of us are involved in on a daily basis?

00:06:07.620 For the most part, I don't like to give a hasty generalization for everyone that I've never met about what they do and don't do.

00:06:18.880 But I will say that I will call it usually less conscious about their internal terrain.

00:06:26.640 Usually, they might be conscious of a surface-level feeling such as frustration.

00:06:31.000 But there are deeper feelings, usually almost always findable underneath a surface emotion.

00:06:36.920 So just to define that, I would say it would be, I would call it like usually missing grammar or missing the component knowledge, the who, what, where, and when of themselves while they are communicating with someone else or just even while they're trying to communicate to themselves.

00:06:55.140 There's usually missing pieces of information.

00:06:57.560 So I, you know, I didn't want to give it like a label to say people are all speaking jackal language, which is a term referring to the use of the four Ds, which we're going to get to.

00:07:08.220 That, that of essentially giving oneself or other people diagnoses that were unrequested, labels essentially, the methodology of denying responsibility, that of essentially saying, you know, it's not my fault that I'm feeling this.

00:07:27.120 It's external, it's someone else's fault that I'm having this emotion.

00:07:30.140 So there's a lack of control internally.

00:07:33.280 The deserve-oriented language, that of, you know, essentially, I deserve this, they deserve that.

00:07:39.520 Whether it's a punishment or a reward, it's part of extrinsic motivations, such as what is taught in public schools.

00:07:46.740 And naturally, there's the nastiness of giving demands, which is different than making a request where you can opt out.

00:07:52.940 Making a demand of yourself is as disconcerting as making a demand of someone else.

00:08:00.360 It's different when there's an actual opt-out option.

00:08:03.360 So when it comes down to it, many people are just more like they're missing information about what is actually motivating them.

00:08:10.720 And when I mentioned surface-level feelings, I meant that as frustration or anger, jealousy, shame or guilt.

00:08:18.900 I meant that are, to me, as far as I'm saying, surface, because every single time when I question myself or others, I'm finding that deep down, there's also simultaneous emotions being felt that I would have to say are just as important to focus upon, such as anxiety, fear, which can only be held on to for so long, and then, of course, sadness or the grief over a missed opportunity of sorts.

00:08:47.080 Now, you brought up hasty generalizations, psychological intrusion, demands, deserve-oriented language.

00:08:54.160 All of those are violent, wouldn't you say?

00:08:57.560 I would say that they would lead to less preferable situations.

00:09:02.380 I like to use the words that are a bit less wobbly.

00:09:06.840 When people hear violent, they're thinking of actual physical violence often.

00:09:11.160 In the same way as if you go to the Center for Nonviolent Communication, cnvc.org, you will see a list of needs and you'll see a list of feelings, the feelings inventory, the needs inventory.

00:09:25.080 These are excellent lists, but the problem that I would find with the word need is people will basically interpret the word need as only physiological needs.

00:09:34.760 And in the same way, people will interpret violence as only physiological violence.

00:09:40.960 Now, I realized that, of course, you could have disagreeable words go back and forth, meaning that people did not desire a specific word.

00:09:51.200 They were actually desiring other types of words.

00:09:53.920 But the gift of words that came at them was not what they, you know, would have actually ordered if they actually had the capacity to order whatever someone else was, as if it was a restaurant.

00:10:05.040 And what you're getting is, you know, what you're putting on your plate is voluntary, like a buffet.

00:10:10.180 But instead, it's not like that.

00:10:12.000 You're getting the words that someone else chooses, their own preference to deliver to you.

00:10:17.400 So the thing about it is interpretation.

00:10:19.960 It's like insult.

00:10:21.100 Insult requires that you interpret the words as the insult.

00:10:26.020 It would require also that you actually are taking it.

00:10:30.480 In other words, it's like words are the action.

00:10:34.860 And then you have to actually be the target that actually accepts it and takes it in.

00:10:40.020 And then after taking that insult in, then you could then form your emotional response to it and say that it was external, that it's out of your control.

00:10:49.300 There's another alternative.

00:10:52.100 You could just take words for being words and that it's the other person is tipping their hand as to what motivates them and also tipping their hand as to what they're feeling.

00:11:02.340 This is vital information, I would say.

00:11:04.860 Unless they're a superlative actor, this is likely to be somewhat of a genuine actual diagnostic of what's going on within them.

00:11:16.440 And by diagnostic, I mean yielding practical information that can be utilized.

00:11:21.600 That's why a lot of times it's just good to listen because the other person always reveals their deck of cards.

00:11:27.860 Precisely.

00:11:28.880 Now, is this sort of communication, voluntary communication, is this something that we all have the ability to develop or are some people just inherently better at it?

00:11:37.480 I would probably speculate that in the same way as the trivium method of critical thinking, you're born with it.

00:11:45.520 It's instantaneous.

00:11:47.120 I would say that I see most children have this, generally speaking, intact.

00:11:51.680 It's just that the difference that I would speculate, though, in terms of the trivium method of critical thinking, that of input, processing, and output, or putting things in order of your knowledge, who, what, where, and when, then going to processing or understanding, asking why, like the little toddler does, and then finding a practical application, meaning actually applying the knowledge and understanding to create a predicted result.

00:12:20.600 That takes a little bit more trauma to break from a child, but the conditioning necessary to break empathetic communication or voluntary communication, I think, is less trauma.

00:12:36.160 It would take less conditioning to break this.

00:12:39.120 I speculate that children and animals are great creatures to look at, you know, whether, I mean, we are creatures, you know, so whether they're little or big.

00:12:47.500 But to see little ones who are essentially having all of their fundamental values and desires being respected, you will see this type of communication as being automatically intact.

00:13:01.640 If you spend some time traveling to places where people are living much closer to the earth, as I have, you will probably notice that children are crying less and are being held more, are trusted to a greater degree.

00:13:16.780 I did learn this somewhat first before I did extensive traveling from the book, The Continuum Concept by Gene Liedloft.

00:13:26.140 But I saw it in practice, actually, as well, when I went to Peru, a bit when I went to Jamaica as well, for that matter, and when I went to China.

00:13:34.260 I got to see, you know, that, by the way, I was in China when I was 14, but I did, you know, upon recollection of that, which was back, just to date myself, that was 1986 when I was 14.

00:13:47.540 So you can give a perspective of who is Daryl Becker.

00:13:53.740 I did see examples of this.

00:13:56.460 So it's my speculation, Lana, that people are born with these methodologies implicitly or implied.

00:14:04.420 It's just that there's traumatic conditioning can happen, can quickly break the ability for one to connect within oneself and see what's going on and find a practical application of this information.

00:14:17.680 And then, likewise, after you're standing strong, to see what's going on in someone else.

00:14:23.160 And you can actually even consider giving them a hand up, because, as we well know, you can't really give someone a hand up if you're already on the ground.

00:14:30.940 Yeah, I think what you're saying, there's a lot of truth.

00:14:34.540 I mean, a lot of kids, I always wonder about this.

00:14:36.460 What happens to some people when they're just not kind?

00:14:39.360 There's a lack of kindness.

00:14:41.020 So somewhere along the line, when they grew up, they were beaten down or some trauma happened, and now they don't know how to be kind with other people in their conversations, and they don't even realize when they're being unkind.

00:14:52.500 Well, yeah, I think that this is just part of the missing information.

00:14:57.380 It's kind of like the list of informal logical fallacies.

00:15:00.940 You know, there's like a pretty good list of 42 of them that Michael Lebozier wrote out, and then there's at least about a good 200 of them that have been discovered, most of them being variations of one or the other.

00:15:15.200 Essentially, all of these are methodologies of silently, hopefully, in one's own head, as like a virus scanner checking the reality of how likely things are going to yield a predictable and desired result.

00:15:31.960 And that's on the intellectual side.

00:15:34.220 On the empathy side, it comes down to what are the feelings involved for the person who's speaking?

00:15:40.020 Right now, that's me.

00:15:41.180 For the person who's listening, that's you and perhaps Henrik in the background over there.

00:15:46.600 And then all of, of course, everyone who's going to be listening to this interview, what's the reality of my audience as far as their feelings and what is motivating their feelings?

00:15:58.140 So it's this missing information that seems to be at the crux of miscommunication or unfortunate communications, not really yielding anything that's nearly desired or practical.

00:16:09.440 You talk about the intellectual and empathetic lenses, which is also relevant to the discussion of how NVC fits with trivium.

00:16:16.660 So what factors are instrumental in helping one to focus on reality?

00:16:20.880 How do we properly use these lenses that you're talking about?

00:16:25.280 I think to use a lens, you first have to be able to understand the lens.

00:16:30.640 What is the lens of the trivium?

00:16:32.880 And though I did describe it, I'll try to make it march and say it again.

00:16:36.860 And essentially, it comes to having things within a very effective order.

00:16:43.580 The effective order that I've found is who, what, where, and when, which is knowledge, also known as grammar or general grammar.

00:16:51.820 And this is just an organization of how you see any child would put things together.

00:16:56.440 They would essentially look at what are these?

00:16:59.700 These are sticks.

00:17:00.540 They're getting various different size of sticks, from little tinder sticks to the great big logs that are ready for the end process.

00:17:08.040 And the process of, why does the fire work when you build and put the sticks together in this fashion?

00:17:15.720 You know, and why?

00:17:17.760 Why?

00:17:18.180 Because it works in this way.

00:17:19.560 Because if you stack them in this way, it makes the fire.

00:17:22.460 If you stack them in this way, it smothers the fire.

00:17:24.620 And so there you're getting the practical applications of understanding why, or processing.

00:17:30.700 And then there's the actual practical applications of the knowledge, building the fire.

00:17:35.280 So any little child who's paid attention will see this information.

00:17:39.680 They'll get the grammar of the sticks.

00:17:41.940 They'll get the logic of how to build the fire.

00:17:45.240 And they'll put it into practice, which is called rhetoric, which is another synonym for wisdom, if it's practical.

00:17:53.000 But it's not, if it's not practical.

00:17:56.120 Like what are the words that I'm saying?

00:17:57.760 If they're not practical, it's not wisdom.

00:18:00.100 But if you can use them to affect something that's desired, that's practical.

00:18:05.840 That equals wisdom.

00:18:07.780 So it comes down to that part of the lens.

00:18:10.120 That's one aspect of looking through it, as well as the rhetorical triangle, where the author is understood, the audience is understood, the message is understood, and it flows around in that triangular pattern.

00:18:23.220 That's the intellectual lens.

00:18:25.500 The emotional or empathetic lens, nonviolent communication, is predicated on understanding, first, two very important concepts.

00:18:34.580 The tangible, which begins with observations, flowing into what is automatically figured out as emotions.

00:18:44.360 You see things, you hear things.

00:18:46.100 Like I heard your question, Lana, and I have an emotion come up because I know.

00:18:50.120 It's like, oh man, she wants me to explain the lenses.

00:18:52.860 Ah, better explain the lenses.

00:18:55.360 Okay, so I have the feeling come up of like, you know, better be on it, Becker.

00:19:00.340 You know, this is your chance.

00:19:01.580 This is Swedish internet radio, so get ready.

00:19:06.240 You know, so that's the, you know, you have that little bit of impetus, that feeling that happens.

00:19:12.260 But the feeling is correlating to simultaneously something else that's intangible.

00:19:17.280 So the observation is tangible.

00:19:19.200 The feeling is intangible.

00:19:20.600 You can't find the feeling.

00:19:22.600 It's there.

00:19:23.340 There's cause and effect that you can see evidence of it somehow existing, but it's intangible and abstract.

00:19:29.760 The origin of that feeling is coming from the intangible motivating factor.

00:19:38.140 For me, the motivating factor is communication and connection.

00:19:42.820 I want to connect to you guys and your audience, which essentially is something that I want eventually to be my audience as well.

00:19:50.240 I want to communicate something that I have found very practical.

00:19:55.600 I want to eventually get feedback so I could find ways of better communicating in the future.

00:20:01.200 I want ease and efficiency, so I have my words flowing one after the other, and I have some sense of organization.

00:20:07.580 These are desires, ease and efficiency.

00:20:10.520 These are ephemeral.

00:20:11.620 They are not tangible.

00:20:13.880 And I want to help get good information out there, so this is a partnership, right?

00:20:18.680 A voluntary communication and exchange.

00:20:21.900 Right, and so we have that.

00:20:23.360 So you have your own motivations.

00:20:25.660 I've got my motivations.

00:20:26.900 Those are still intangible.

00:20:28.380 And then it comes to the tangible, the actions.

00:20:30.620 These are my words right now.

00:20:32.340 That's my action.

00:20:33.160 When it comes down to it, these were codified by Marshall Rosenberg as observations, once again, in the realm of the tangible, like I hear your words, feelings, which is my own internal feelings, the motivating factors, that is essentially what motivates the feelings inside of me to occur, which are essentially correlated to however well I'm doing, you know, in terms of making the motivations happen.

00:20:59.840 And then the actions, or requests, that's what he called.

00:21:04.100 So observations, feelings, needs, and requests is how he codified this, this methodology.

00:21:09.720 It's an endless circle that goes round and round, starting from the tangible, flowing to the intangible, tangible observations, intangible feelings, intangible motivating factors, or needs, as he called it, and then tangible requests, or actions.

00:21:26.380 And this is, that's one part of the lens.

00:21:30.000 Now, very important here.

00:21:32.560 One part of the lens means, so that's OFNR, observations, feelings, and needs, requests.

00:21:39.720 Now it's how to, is it applied?

00:21:41.960 That's another part.

00:21:43.360 Internally, meaning I'm taking an internal inventory of all of that, both my internal trivium method and my internal OFNR method.

00:21:50.380 I'm taking an external observation of how things are going with you and your choice of words, and you and your feelings, and to try to quickly figure out what motivates you, you know, as far as I need to.

00:22:04.440 That's an example of using these tools.

00:22:07.920 Using the four D's of disconnected communication is a similar method as using your informal logical fallacy list as your virus scanner, essentially.

00:22:19.100 I'm looking to see, to make sure, first of all, that I'm not delivering demands, or giving a diagnosis when someone didn't pay me for it, or ask for it, or in some way, deliver the explicit permission to understand it.

00:22:34.660 So, in other words, you know, there's this thing where, you know, you're not supposed to judge people.

00:22:39.800 That was that idea, you know.

00:22:42.040 I'm taking a tangent from the four D's for a moment to say something about judgment.

00:22:47.620 Essentially, I don't want to dissuade people from making internal evaluations.

00:22:53.980 That's how we get things done.

00:22:55.360 What I'm trying to possibly suggest is to keep that silence to oneself, that when you're essentially making an evaluation of someone else or yourself, you're looking for the practical application of that.

00:23:12.380 And, of course, if I've found, the practical application of a diagnostic means that you have a treatment plan attached to it that is effective, and that there's some evidence to show that it's effective.

00:23:24.180 Obviously, calling someone a name has been shown to be ineffective over and over again.

00:23:30.440 So, you know, I generally say, maybe hold off on giving someone a label, especially yourself.

00:23:35.520 Maybe go for instead, just trying to understand, like, the purpose of the label.

00:23:42.520 The next one, the denial of responsibility, that aspect of, you know, you made me so angry, so I just had to start talking louder and faster.

00:23:51.820 That's all your fault.

00:23:53.240 It's essentially denying responsibility.

00:23:55.960 It does require that I define responsibility the way I'm using the word, which is the ability to respond.

00:24:03.720 Response-ability.

00:24:05.520 And that's different than obligation, which is actually completely a different thing entirely.

00:24:12.280 I realize that people will use that word responsibility in their speech or in their mind and define it that way.

00:24:18.720 But I would probably suggest in the spirit of and also, rather than either or, perhaps you could look in other ways to define that word.

00:24:28.880 And then, of course, there's the deserve-oriented language, punishments and rewards, that type of thing.

00:24:33.800 I look through this lens to make sure everything that comes out of me, it's got to pass, so it's not something in one of those, if possible.

00:24:43.720 And also, if someone is coming at me with one of those, that's them tipping their hand, and they're sort of showing me a little bit of what they're feeling, and they're showing me what motivates them.

00:24:54.900 And then, if someone is coming at me with one of those, that's information, that's information, I can use that.

00:24:57.520 Yeah, that's right.

00:24:59.900 Now, let's talk about cognitive dissonance, because we all have that.

00:25:04.020 So, how do we go about removing our own sources of cognitive dissonance?

00:25:10.020 Yeah, I liked a friendly term called splinters in the mind, mental splinters and emotional splinters, the two flavors that I found I was able to identify.

00:25:21.120 And essentially, I used that to, instead of cognitive dissonance, which is a cold and clinical term, because everyone's had a splinter, I know, if you've heard me on some of these other productions, you've heard me go on to this.

00:25:35.320 Most people would never touch someone else's splinter, that would be very rude, so you have some respect.

00:25:41.700 Splinter is not considered a permanent condition.

00:25:44.160 The reason I'm using this term right now to describe cognitive dissonance is so that, instead of saying, oh, we all have cognitive dissonance and there's nothing you can do, I'd say, hey, it's like a splinter.

00:25:59.340 You could just take the time to identify it, figure it out, and pull it out.

00:26:05.060 And where that space is, where you pull the splinter out, because, you know, that essentially leaves a hole, you can fill that hole, you can pack it with salve, you can definitely, essentially, make it work again.

00:26:18.180 It can heal, you know, just like any little splinter pulled out of a foot, basically.

00:26:24.460 I'm looking for more hope, basically.

00:26:28.540 Cognitive dissonance is not a permanent condition.

00:26:30.560 It's a situation wherein there's conflicting mental situations, such as the use of an informal logical fallacy.

00:26:41.820 The knowledge of the informal logical fallacies helps you identify the mental versions of these splinters or cognitive dissonance.

00:26:49.900 The use of the four Ds of disconnected communication helps you realize the stimulus, emotion, and pre-programmed, especially from past trauma, responses that happen so that, instead, you can take a different plan of action, essentially.

00:27:10.740 This is what I would mostly want to focus on, is that, you know, the major purpose of why, essentially, I have been writing and making these productions, is I'm seeing, hey, with these methods, with both sides, with these two lenses, intellectually and empathetically, the most important person to fix is yourself.

00:27:31.940 From there, any family difficulties, any interpersonal difficulties, you know, you will find you can stand strong amidst that, but it starts with your own internal environment, basically.

00:27:44.840 Yeah, it's hard to catch yourself, too, in your own pre-programmed responses.

00:27:48.560 Sometimes you can notice yourself doing it.

00:27:50.860 It helps when you have maybe some friends you spend a lot of time with, or a husband, or a girlfriend, or something, because they can help you.

00:27:56.760 Hey, you're doing it again, you're doing it again, but it's very difficult to catch yourself.

00:28:01.940 It gets easier and easier if you have a methodology, I find.

00:28:06.940 See, what I've laid out is essentially an explicit methodology.

00:28:10.020 I realize that if this sounds really abstract to you, as I've heard people say, that's very abstract.

00:28:17.500 Yeah, it is abstract.

00:28:18.740 So is the idea of a car and a driver is abstract, until you have practice being a driver of a car, and being part of that system called car and driver, basically.

00:28:31.940 When you have just an implied version of, oh, that's cognitive dissonance again, I guess, or I guess I just used a logical fallacy, I guess.

00:28:41.620 Well, that's the first step is observing it.

00:28:45.080 The second step is saying, okay, so how would you want to do it otherwise?

00:28:49.640 And so what I've laid out essentially is, like, I want to have my grammar first, my information, just like a child would, first looking at the sticks, then the logic of how it sets up to make a fast fire, how it sets up to make a smolder fire, and how it sets up to make a failure of any fire.

00:29:08.560 You know, it just puts itself out.

00:29:10.920 This is just essentially how physics or the world seems to work.

00:29:16.420 And the same thing is within our own internal terrain, intellectually and emotionally.

00:29:21.980 So it comes down to seeing the cause and effect and having an explicit or explainable method.

00:29:28.340 That's where I see often is lack, basically.

00:29:31.340 There's this implied aspect going on often within communication.

00:29:36.060 I think another key is to really slow down and try and be in the moment and think about what you want to say before you say it.

00:29:45.240 Right.

00:29:45.820 That really helps.

00:29:47.340 Yeah, thinking does help.

00:29:48.880 I tried to think about everything I was going to be speaking about for this specific interview.

00:29:54.560 I got my notes in front of me.

00:29:56.400 I've got pen and paper, my capture device.

00:30:00.040 So I'm definitely, you know, it's a process, basically.

00:30:04.020 There's a learning curve for all of us.

00:30:06.400 I'm basically only five years in, in terms of like my trivium studies, about three years into my nonviolent communication studies.

00:30:14.480 And then in terms of actually applying them together, that's probably closer to a good squishing it into, I don't know, probably a good year and a half.

00:30:24.740 So these are methodologies that I've been essentially like trying to fold and apply and seeing how they overlap with each other.

00:30:32.600 I did.

00:30:33.660 I honestly must say this.

00:30:35.620 There is a book, Nonviolent Communication.

00:30:37.740 It is written in such a way that chapter nine is self-empathy.

00:30:43.360 And as you can hear the way I was just describing, not just the tone in my voice, but also in everything I've just said up until now.

00:30:51.780 What I was describing was the internal equilibrium, which I'm going to get to, is the goal.

00:30:59.740 Because that's the major strength of systems such as nonviolent communication and the trivium method.

00:31:06.120 is gaining internal equilibrium so that there is a balance, whether with thoughts or a balance, whether with emotions.

00:31:17.460 Balance meaning that essentially you're not riding the roller coaster of emotions and not essentially saying,

00:31:25.340 okay, I know life has highs and lows, but at this point I'd like to come back to an even keel so that I could focus on this thing right in front of me,

00:31:34.260 this person right in front of me.

00:31:36.380 And that's essentially the gist of where I'm headed with this information.

00:31:41.120 Talk about some methods to help generate, you were talking about bridges of empathy between individuals.

00:31:47.900 Yeah, that's the very important thing.

00:31:50.360 So splinters I did identify.

00:31:51.960 These are the cognitive dissonance, intellectually speaking.

00:31:55.580 These are the traumatically created pre-programmed emotional responses.

00:32:01.060 That's emotionally.

00:32:03.480 These are aspects that make a difficulty basically between two people who are communicating and even just in one person,

00:32:13.080 just in able to navigate their life and their choices.

00:32:16.980 Between people, it's as if every individual is a separate island.

00:32:21.260 That's how I would look at it.

00:32:23.580 And in order for, say, my information, my logic, my presentation that I'm making right now to cross from me to you, the listener,

00:32:34.560 what it seems that I'm required to do is create a bridge first.

00:32:38.440 I can't just hurl my stuff and say, here it is and you're wrong if you don't believe it.

00:32:42.760 That's like me just taking my 18-wheeler truck and I'm hurling it from my island over to your island.

00:32:49.660 Yes, it is.

00:32:50.120 And of course, it's landing in a fiery wreck.

00:32:52.900 And you're like, no, Daryl, that's not how it is at all.

00:32:56.060 Here's how it is.

00:32:56.720 And you throw your 18-wheeler.

00:32:58.840 It was pristine when it left the island, but man, it lands in a fiery wreck.

00:33:03.640 That's absent a bridge.

00:33:05.000 A bridge is the empathy connection of respect and caring and understanding.

00:33:10.980 This is intangible, but it is palpable or somewhat supportive evidence can essentially show that this exists.

00:33:20.220 So with you and me, we've had very polite conversations email-wise up until now,

00:33:24.580 and it all built a solid bridge that we could communicate.

00:33:28.220 We could make a great production today, 13th of October, 2013, making it work just fine.

00:33:37.040 But in order to do that with our logic, we had to make a bridge,

00:33:41.760 meaning there was communication going on back and forth requiring changes of recording date and things like that.

00:33:49.240 All of this was opportunities where we could just show evidence that we care about each other.

00:33:56.860 So yes, you're right.

00:33:57.960 There are four methods.

00:34:01.000 No, I would say eight simple methods that I wrote in my essay on essentially how to better generate the bridge.

00:34:08.640 And they are predicated on all of what I just said,

00:34:12.640 the knowledge of observations, feelings, needs, and requests,

00:34:16.440 but using your intellectual trivium methodology to understand this.

00:34:22.760 So starting off, if I was going to be making a bridge with someone, say,

00:34:26.600 who would be holding conclusions that are at odds with the conclusions that I'm holding,

00:34:32.840 the first thing I'm trying to do in creating connection

00:34:35.900 is I'm trying to show that there is respect for each of our specific positions.

00:34:41.920 I hold the abundance perspective, meaning that the perspective that it's an and-also situation.

00:34:50.960 I can have the conclusions that have been functioning well for me.

00:34:54.900 They can have the conclusions that are functioning well so far as they think for them.

00:35:00.440 I didn't mean that as a jab.

00:35:02.000 I mean like that so far as both of us think,

00:35:04.800 we both have conclusions that we're operating with because of our past experiences.

00:35:09.840 So I'm trying to essentially offer that maybe they might have a desire for me to change my conclusions.

00:35:18.000 I'm not necessarily desiring for them to change their conclusions,

00:35:21.800 although I am interested to see if they're open to hearing about what it is that I would conclude.

00:35:27.240 I'm looking to see that, first off, I want to communicate to their motivating factors.

00:35:34.180 This is on the inventory list of needs.

00:35:37.540 If you go to cnvc.org and you look up needs inventory, you'll see that list.

00:35:44.020 They are nouns, but they're very abstract.

00:35:47.200 They're not specific.

00:35:48.140 They don't include specific strategies.

00:35:50.980 So for example, companionship and intimacy is a need,

00:35:56.820 but to get with one specific girl is a strategy. 0.99

00:36:00.580 So you hear the difference right there.

00:36:03.300 There's very specific things.

00:36:05.000 One is abstract, one is tangible.

00:36:08.600 So I'm going to speak directly to the abstraction of what it is that the other person is after.

00:36:13.920 I'm going to ask questions about what it is that they are asserting,

00:36:19.320 and through that I'll find out what it is that motivates them,

00:36:22.740 such as, for example, safety and security.

00:36:24.820 Many people will support the idea of a desire for a coercive, monopoly-style government

00:36:31.580 that is, for their own perspective, required or highly desired

00:36:37.280 as a methodology of producing the results that they wish.

00:36:42.340 Safety and security is one of them.

00:36:44.320 That's on the list of your needs inventory or motivating factors.

00:36:48.980 So I might speak directly to say,

00:36:50.680 hey, I understand you have a need for safety and security.

00:36:53.280 I have that need too, so I just wanted to let you know I'm aware of that.

00:36:59.360 And that's one method.

00:37:01.020 It's called reiteration, or speaking directly to what someone else has previously said.

00:37:07.080 Although if they didn't mention the motivating factor,

00:37:09.460 it would be speaking to the subtext of what they're after, essentially.

00:37:14.020 The other method would be speaking to, let's see, what it is that I'm after.

00:37:20.980 You know, my own motivating factors, essentially.

00:37:24.740 I could, especially if it's something that is shared in common with them.

00:37:29.580 I might not do this if it's in opposition or it's completely different than what the person is after.

00:37:35.840 I might choose to keep that to myself, what it is that I'm, what motivates me.

00:37:40.200 If it could be confused for something that would be divisive, for example,

00:37:46.160 like that I have the real deal for the motivating factor and they don't.

00:37:50.880 But I could communicate in the and also perspective.

00:37:54.080 Hey, I respect yours.

00:37:55.240 Here's mine.

00:37:56.200 I might speak in vulnerability.

00:37:58.780 I might display, here it is how I'm feeling.

00:38:00.920 Oh, I'm on another interview and I'm a little nervous.

00:38:05.680 I could reveal my emotions.

00:38:08.320 That has potential to connect by making myself a little bit vulnerable and showing my feelings.

00:38:15.340 Although, you know, some people that would not be appropriate because if someone wanted to focus on what they're feeling,

00:38:22.360 me saying how I'm feeling is kind of a change of subject.

00:38:26.080 And that's, of course, the logical fallacy of the red herring. 0.93

00:38:29.060 You know, they might want to focus on one subject at a time in the trivium method,

00:38:33.120 which is a very rational way of speaking.

00:38:36.260 So I keep that in mind.

00:38:37.920 You know, I might mention it.

00:38:38.980 I might not.

00:38:39.740 But it could, of course, create a bridge, a connection.

00:38:43.680 And then, of course, I could speak to how the other person is feeling.

00:38:47.480 Unless, of course, they don't want to have that revealed.

00:38:51.740 That would be intrusive.

00:38:53.400 In other words, they would like their own emotional terrain to be respected and kept private, not spoken of.

00:39:01.300 Kind of like when you see a cat absently stretching and then falling off the table.

00:39:07.260 And then you look at them and they're like, we will not mention this ever again.

00:39:11.640 You know.

00:39:12.260 Except the difference is, yeah, it's funny because humans are so picky and finicky.

00:39:16.560 We have to have things just so in our feelings and our inputs and our outputs.

00:39:20.360 You know, the cat just falls and whatever gets up.

00:39:23.100 Nothing of it, you know.

00:39:25.140 We will not mention this again.

00:39:26.520 And it's like, yeah, it's true.

00:39:27.780 And it's a good thing because the language barrier, you can't mention it again.

00:39:30.920 And also, they're so rationally in the present moment that they don't speak.

00:39:36.380 As far as I can tell, they don't really like spend much time in the past or future.

00:39:39.860 No.

00:39:40.640 They're very in the present moment as, and that would be the way to live a nice, healthy life,

00:39:46.940 which you can see evident in most, pretty much any mammal that you can identify.

00:39:53.020 They're very much in the present moment.

00:39:54.960 And you can see that evident in every single child, you know, under three, of course.

00:39:59.140 They're very in the present moment.

00:40:00.740 And this is an aspect of, I might speak of someone's emotions, but not if it's going to

00:40:08.140 sound like I'm psychologizing them.

00:40:10.540 Are you feeling this?

00:40:12.440 It's like, that could be very intrusive.

00:40:15.000 So I'd be very cautious about jumping to that.

00:40:18.100 Standard nonviolent communication tactics, they often teach people to go right to speaking

00:40:23.480 of what someone else is feeling.

00:40:25.580 I would very much highly caution both that, and I would also caution the use of the word

00:40:30.520 need, because there's a definition wobble.

00:40:33.880 Need could be confused for people to mean physiological need.

00:40:37.960 I prefer motivating factors, and I would be more specific.

00:40:41.160 I prefer desires and values.

00:40:43.160 Do you desire this?

00:40:44.320 Do you have a value for that?

00:40:46.380 It's common.

00:40:48.100 I mean, I don't know anyone who doesn't have a value or desire for anything.

00:40:52.100 You know, someone, you always have it for something.

00:40:55.360 So this was the intangible side, both the feelings and the motivating factors or need.

00:41:00.520 As methodology of creating a bridge of empathy.

00:41:03.880 On the other side, the tangible side, I could use that.

00:41:07.480 Observations.

00:41:08.260 I could speak directly to how it is that the other person is observing the situation.

00:41:14.080 How the other person heard the words or saw the action.

00:41:16.800 And try to reiterate to them with a question, if I'm not sure, and then speaking it back

00:41:23.260 to them if they gave it to me, how they essentially would see what went down, whether words or

00:41:29.760 actions, et cetera.

00:41:31.340 I could also choose to speak to how I observed it, unless, of course, that seemed to be very

00:41:38.220 much opposed to how they observed it.

00:41:41.100 And that could be contradictory.

00:41:43.200 There's always this conflict happens when people consider that you're contradicting them

00:41:47.280 because they're thinking in, usually through the lens of either or.

00:41:50.800 Either it's my observations or it's your observations.

00:41:53.740 But it's not like more like points of perspective and vantage point.

00:41:58.020 I could also choose to look through the lens of actions or requests.

00:42:04.580 I could speak directly to the actions that the other person chose to make, unless it sounds

00:42:12.480 like I'm giving them a diagnosis for how they chose their actions.

00:42:16.780 I have to be careful on how I choose to word things.

00:42:20.040 I could also speak to my own actions, unless, of course, that sounds like I am in some way

00:42:26.660 making a demand of them.

00:42:29.080 So you can hear, like the way I'm using OFNR, observations, feelings, needs, requests, to

00:42:34.340 build a bridge, eight different methods.

00:42:37.220 Those were ways of connecting to say, hey, you are alive over there and I am paying attention

00:42:44.600 to various aspects of what that means in a practical way.

00:42:49.820 So I don't have to fully put the attention span on them if that would be uncomfortable.

00:42:55.080 Likewise, I won't fully put the attention span on me and how I'm feeling if that would also

00:43:01.980 be off-putting for them.

00:43:04.400 Now let's talk about politicians because they know words that work and they use tactical

00:43:08.880 phrases and words to influence results.

00:43:11.500 So anyone could use this but use it for sinister results, correct?

00:43:16.720 Yeah, that's true.

00:43:18.180 That's true.

00:43:18.860 So how do you pick out the bullshitter?

00:43:21.040 Yeah, so I think maybe what you were asking is how do I identify probably, let's see, like

00:43:33.060 lying with malicious intent or that type of thing where someone is essentially selling

00:43:37.900 something.

00:43:39.420 Politicians are just one way of selling something. 1.00

00:43:42.740 There are many people who are selling something.

00:43:44.360 I think it comes down to identifying what is the product being sold.

00:43:51.200 And that's just the trivium method of identification, of removing euphemisms if possible.

00:43:56.160 So one word equals one thing.

00:43:58.940 And also where you're finding flags of abstractions.

00:44:04.440 So, you know, I did mention the static trivium, grammar, logic, rhetoric.

00:44:08.280 That's static.

00:44:09.260 I mentioned an active aspect of rhetoric called the rhetorical triangle.

00:44:13.780 That's the intimate knowledge, or I would say explicit, explainable knowledge of the author

00:44:19.880 and all of the motivating factors and the emotions going on with the author.

00:44:25.820 That's me right now.

00:44:27.860 And also the audience.

00:44:29.960 That's you and potentially I'm extrapolating everyone potentially listening.

00:44:34.520 I know some of them and all of the emotions that they could be potentially feeling.

00:44:40.780 I can hear.

00:44:41.360 See, we don't have like a video Skype going on.

00:44:43.740 So if I saw I could read your body language and your facial expressions, I'd get a bead

00:44:48.060 on your emotions.

00:44:50.340 And likewise, from there, I'd be able to extrapolate some of your motivating factors or what it is

00:44:56.740 that would generate those emotions, the values and desires that's alive in Lana.

00:45:01.240 So there's that aspect of information.

00:45:07.200 There's essentially just, it's a need for understanding what's going on, particularly.

00:45:14.000 The other active aspects of the trivium that I want to emphasize are grammar scan.

00:45:18.520 It's what I would call when you have specific words that are flagged silently in your mind.

00:45:24.980 I have certain words flagged, such as first person plural pronouns, we, us, our, they,

00:45:31.920 them, theirs, et cetera, et cetera, especially when referred to in a collectivist manner.

00:45:37.660 And you don't have to spend too much Google time looking up collectivism to understand what

00:45:42.500 I'm referring to.

00:45:43.280 I also have grammar scans set to flag any abstraction, such as culture, society, the greater good,

00:45:52.900 the common good.

00:45:55.380 These are abstractions.

00:45:56.780 All red flags for me.

00:45:58.220 Right, right.

00:45:58.880 So I have, I silently have them flagged like that, you know, and that means like I will very

00:46:03.800 much my, my ears perk up.

00:46:05.400 I take note.

00:46:06.640 I'm not necessarily going to reference this to the other person because I need to understand

00:46:11.960 where they're coming from, if they are knowing what they're doing and they are intentionally

00:46:16.540 trying to sell me something that, you know, they, they fully know that they're trying to

00:46:22.680 convince me instead of demonstrate something to me and offer me something, then there is

00:46:29.420 an aspect of potential manipulation going on.

00:46:32.460 So it's best for me to keep my cards to myself for the moment until I figure out what's going

00:46:36.880 on.

00:46:37.240 The second step of logic scan is, well, very simply the logical, the informal logical fallacy

00:46:44.220 lists.

00:46:45.300 It's good to know the 42.

00:46:47.000 There's a good 20 of them that aren't that hard to learn.

00:46:50.320 You know, essentially fallacies of ambiguity or there's something could be essentially not

00:46:56.940 very much defined.

00:46:58.820 The fallacies of equivocation where words are flipping meaning backwards and forwards, you

00:47:03.580 know, now it's this, now it's that.

00:47:05.220 And then of course there's the fallacies of the neglected aspect, very important information

00:47:11.520 being left out and fallacies of relevance, where in other words, completely irrelevant,

00:47:17.520 such as a red herring item is brought up.

00:47:21.720 I've found that many of the fallacies can be split into these four groups.

00:47:25.420 So I do have that.

00:47:28.180 Jumping back to grammar scan, I also have an etymology scan in my mind.

00:47:32.240 Certain words I do know the etymology for.

00:47:35.340 So the ancient and then recent past and then present past use of the word comes up, such

00:47:41.700 as religion, for example.

00:47:43.580 Fascinating etymology on that word.

00:47:45.180 And likewise for the etymology of government, likewise the etymology on, well, a lot of

00:47:53.840 words, empathy, for example.

00:47:55.460 That's a word that's not been in actual English use for even much more than 100 years, actually.

00:48:02.320 So these are all important aspects.

00:48:04.580 A functional grammar scan, a functional logic scan, and your functional rhetorical triangle

00:48:09.960 scan, in addition to the constant OFNR internal and external scan going on, a constant 4Ds

00:48:19.140 of disconnected communication scan internally, checking that I'm not making some demands of

00:48:24.660 Lana, externally.

00:48:26.920 Did she just make a demand of me to answer this question, or is that a request?

00:48:31.520 You know, and by the way, it was a request.

00:48:33.740 Yes, it was.

00:48:35.080 So I'm giving you an example.

00:48:36.960 These are things that, like, when it comes down to what you call politicians, people

00:48:41.820 who are essentially selling a political solution to some specific situation.

00:48:47.920 Now, how would you apply these things?

00:48:49.560 I don't know where you stand politically, but let's say you were in a court of law dealing

00:48:52.560 with authority or government agents or the IRS.

00:48:57.860 Oh, boy.

00:48:58.680 How do you communicate to that?

00:49:00.440 I didn't want to be in a court of law, but now that I'm speculating, I am.

00:49:07.040 Well, that's a coercive scenario, first of all.

00:49:09.500 It's a monopoly court of law, and it's not voluntary.

00:49:13.600 If usually you get a subpoena, you show up there because you're under threat.

00:49:17.980 The purpose of any situation where there's real cause and effect, three-dimensional, serious

00:49:26.340 implications going on, that requires me to take the path of most safety.

00:49:33.880 So I'm going to flow along that according to whatever would be, you know, yielding me the

00:49:38.340 best results, basically.

00:49:39.560 This means that I'm going to still be using all of these tools to keep myself in some states

00:49:46.140 of intellectual and emotional equilibrium.

00:49:49.520 And also, at the same time, while I'm standing strong that way, I can see where other people

00:49:54.360 are at, what motivates them.

00:49:56.480 People, you know, when you can see their faces and body language, they give themselves away,

00:50:01.320 emotionally speaking.

00:50:02.760 And that, in turn, gives their motivating factors away, what they value and desire in any

00:50:07.820 particular moment.

00:50:08.620 Someone who's working in those systems values their paycheck.

00:50:12.540 They value their procedure.

00:50:14.500 They probably pretty much value just getting through that day and being done, you know.

00:50:20.420 Ease and efficiency is called that, basically.

00:50:23.600 They need that simplicity of having it all flow according to the pattern that they're used

00:50:28.340 to.

00:50:29.820 So this makes those types of people very predictable.

00:50:34.640 Unless they're a genius, unless they know everything I've just been saying, unless there's some

00:50:40.840 ulterior motive going on to actually get me in some way, they are someone who, you know,

00:50:48.320 can be spoken to using these ways.

00:50:50.760 Meaning those bridges that I mentioned, you can utilize them to make a bridge within such

00:50:56.920 a coercive scenario.

00:50:58.480 When someone has power over you, to speak to what motivates them is a potential methodology

00:51:04.860 for finding a bridge to see that, hey, I understand you're an individual and this is what you're

00:51:11.200 after.

00:51:12.100 Maybe there's another way for you to get that.

00:51:13.860 It's usually money or jail, one of those.

00:51:15.980 Money or jail, sure.

00:51:17.100 And so, yeah, in this instance, I probably would choose the money.

00:51:21.980 So when it comes down to politically, as I tried to mention off air and I'll probably mention

00:51:29.500 right now, it's definitely seeable on my blog site, essentially.

00:51:34.720 I do see serious value in the non-aggression principle, meaning I'm not going to initiate

00:51:40.820 aggression against someone.

00:51:42.340 I will, if absolutely necessary, make attempts to defend myself.

00:51:47.720 But in general, I'm going to look to do the diffusing method because I found that these

00:51:53.520 methodologies I've just been explaining are pretty effective in diffusing potential conflict

00:52:00.000 and aspects such as that.

00:52:02.680 When it comes down to it, that does mean I'm not going to see relevance in outsourcing violence

00:52:10.080 of other people on other people, which is essentially the actions of a legislature coming

00:52:15.700 from a coercive monopoly government.

00:52:18.240 That's one group of people forcing edicts upon another group of people for often a very

00:52:25.120 provable profit for a very small minority of people.

00:52:28.160 And, you know, some, you know, as I think I could just murder you, the YouTube that you

00:52:34.940 could go to from Brett Vinat of the School Sucks podcast, it shows a pretty wonderful way

00:52:41.040 of looking at all of what I just described in terms of coercive monopolies over the past

00:52:46.460 10,000 years, you know, starting with the God King and ending up with, we're all the

00:52:51.920 government type of, I would say, group hallucination.

00:52:56.840 When in reality, it comes down to we're all individuals.

00:53:00.780 That is provable.

00:53:02.400 I have not seen the Borg existent. 0.98

00:53:04.880 There is no, you know, everyone speaking the same words, thinking the same thoughts.

00:53:09.880 There are people parroting similar thoughts, similar words and thinking similar thoughts, but

00:53:15.920 everyone is an individual, a separate island.

00:53:18.400 That's right.

00:53:18.860 So I'm looking through that lens first to see, okay, I'm removing the abstractions.

00:53:23.860 I'm seeing what's going on around me.

00:53:25.780 And this is the other aspect that is often not very much emphasized in traditional nonviolent

00:53:30.860 communication studies and teaching is boundaries, explicit boundaries between individuals, having

00:53:39.600 this understood so that what is mutually comfortable can be created.

00:53:45.060 This is an aspect of cause and effect saying, okay, it's nothing personal.

00:53:50.900 In certain circumstances, if this happens, then likely this will happen.

00:53:55.960 Some people are very highly armed.

00:53:58.720 They are not going to necessarily hurt anyone.

00:54:02.040 But in the middle of the night, in the midst of their home, if something breached the levels

00:54:07.500 of security to go all the way through a locked door, any person who would choose to go through

00:54:14.600 that, they might seriously be in danger and it's nothing personal.

00:54:18.260 They might get shot.

00:54:19.520 See, I'm presently not living amongst those people.

00:54:24.480 I'm not actually highly armed.

00:54:25.780 I just know people who are and they will do that.

00:54:28.960 And that's an aspect of extreme boundaries, essentially.

00:54:32.300 There are minor ones, such as very simply saying, hey, you know, in this relationship, this is

00:54:39.160 monogamous.

00:54:40.420 If these things occur and I'm finding out that integrity is broken, you're saying it's

00:54:45.740 monogamous and then I'm finding out it's not, then these are the actual cause and effect

00:54:51.120 that this is how I'm laying it out.

00:54:53.080 The relationship's over.

00:54:54.280 Or I'm not interested in trying to rebuild trust with you.

00:54:58.080 And I'm going to start over with someone else.

00:55:00.520 And that's the cause and effect.

00:55:01.900 So you're kind of laying out a boundary, essentially.

00:55:05.680 So does that sort of explain something?

00:55:07.980 Oh, yes, it does.

00:55:09.100 Absolutely.

00:55:10.020 Now, I also wanted to ask you, you talked about body language.

00:55:13.820 There's speaking communication.

00:55:15.140 Now, what about energetic communication?

00:55:18.220 For instance, I could be sitting in a room and not say anything or I could be sitting, you

00:55:22.100 know, with a happy body language, but it could be venting hate and anger.

00:55:27.180 What about that?

00:55:27.980 Isn't that also a form of violence?

00:55:31.220 A different kind of communication?

00:55:32.820 Well, I think if you're venting anger, I think that the major violence would be towards oneself.

00:55:41.140 Because from what I generally get to see, that anger, like, unless you're, you know, having, like, you have some serious psychokinetic effects with that anger upon other individuals.

00:55:54.400 Yeah, some kind of voodoo or witchcraft.

00:55:56.180 Yeah, unless it's actually, unless it's actually palpably, you know, is like there's evidence showing it is actually hurting someone physiologically or even bioenergetically, as that's another realm of my studies.

00:56:08.820 Um, I'm generally seeing it's mostly just hurting the individual because, as I did mention, it is a surface level emotion.

00:56:16.120 Usually, um, I've not yet found that behind the frustration or anger is nothing.

00:56:23.640 Usually, I'm finding that behind it is something.

00:56:26.300 It's usually, whether it's grief, the missed opportunity, et cetera, or something like that, sadness, or anxiety, some type of consistent held fear or overwhelmed feeling or something of that sort that generates that, or actual fear, the actual palpable in danger moment, fight, flight, or freeze, the three Fs, essentially.

00:56:51.600 Um, one of those is usually going on behind the anger.

00:56:56.780 The person just is, might or might not be aware of this.

00:57:00.900 The hiding it behind body language is their own prerogative.

00:57:06.180 It's their own aspect of privacy.

00:57:09.980 I think that it's very good to respect people's privacy.

00:57:12.400 It's why I mentioned not, you know, like not bringing up someone else's feelings unless you really are very sure that they're interested in hearing it.

00:57:19.860 They're open to hearing it and, you know, that it's not an embarrassment for them to hear it.

00:57:26.020 You know, like, uh, this is, these are very important questions to answer.

00:57:30.160 Minding your own business.

00:57:31.100 That's a good one too.

00:57:32.600 Mm-hmm.

00:57:33.140 Yes.

00:57:33.640 Now, looking through a healthy lens, how do you personally view problems or obstacles in life?

00:57:40.580 Ah, see, I've been reading my essay.

00:57:42.780 Yes, I have.

00:57:43.300 Um, so yeah, essentially, when I am standing strong, when all of these aspects are functioning as I've been describing them,

00:57:54.980 I can usually take a moment to see each obstacle or problem as a potential opportunity.

00:58:01.320 Now, I might not have the answers to how to change that obstacle into an opportunity, but that is the end point goal.

00:58:11.120 There are many examples where people apparently, seemingly, have found obstacles and turned them into opportunities.

00:58:18.740 As the, the Robin Hood folks over in New Hampshire, these people who essentially put coins into parking meters of expired meters so that people do not get tickets.

00:58:32.120 And then they leave a little flyer saying, hey, you just got a visit from the Robin Hood people.

00:58:38.420 And, you know, this is, you know, these are people who are essentially trying to prevent you from getting an expensive ticket.

00:58:45.620 So there was the problem, people getting tickets.

00:58:48.960 It was an obstacle.

00:58:50.440 And people saw it as an opportunity to spread information and messages concerning the philosophies of voluntarism and a peaceful society in general, I believe.

00:59:01.520 I could be a little wrong on that, but in general, I see that this is people helping people and utilizing that as a platform to promote greater awareness on a variety of ideas and principles.

00:59:14.440 And that is essentially taking in a problem or an obstacle and turning it into an opportunity.

00:59:21.160 So, you know, when other people would try to make a new problem out of this, essentially making it illegal to do that and trying to arrest people who do that.

00:59:29.680 Can you believe that?

00:59:30.560 Yeah, well, that's an obstacle.

00:59:33.380 So I see that as an opportunity to say, ah, okay.

00:59:36.940 So now full-fledged turn that into a business, meaning make an actual contract.

00:59:42.620 You are working for the people whose cars are there.

00:59:46.040 You could actually potentially do that and say, hey, would you like to be saved this ticket in the future?

00:59:51.440 Because here you go.

00:59:52.960 We can do that.

00:59:53.640 We can set it up.

00:59:54.540 And then, you know, essentially no official can say boo to you because you're working on behalf of the person owning the car.

01:00:01.880 That's their property.

01:00:03.900 And essentially you're working for them to feed the meter.

01:00:07.520 And, you know, essentially, you know, they could pass a law making that that business is not allowable.

01:00:12.560 It just is one obstacle that can keep becoming an opportunity.

01:00:18.380 Every time that there's a system of coercion wherein there is essentially one group or an individual forcing some series of demands or actions upon another group,

01:00:29.820 that's the general gist of it that I see.

01:00:33.080 It's an opportunity to create a business or some type of artistic expression or, you know, to essentially invent a product.

01:00:41.940 It's innovation and creativity that happen.

01:00:44.720 Well said.

01:00:45.120 I think that's a really important aspect to remember.

01:00:48.000 A couple more questions for you. 1.00

01:00:49.600 I want to know how you handle it when somebody personally attacks you or behaves like an asshole. 1.00

01:00:55.360 Oh, that's, yeah, so delivering the diagnosis of like an asshole. 1.00

01:01:07.140 Yep. 1.00

01:01:07.940 So I understand what you meant by that.

01:01:11.020 Again, it's that aspect of disagreeable words or actions, meaning I would prefer it have been to other words.

01:01:20.600 I would prefer they chose other actions.

01:01:23.020 Why?

01:01:23.300 Because of my own itinerary, my own motivations, basically.

01:01:28.260 So when this happens, I'm basically taking the moment to see what's going on.

01:01:36.680 Here's the very important part.

01:01:38.040 What's going on internally?

01:01:39.960 So when I mentioned internal emotional and intellectual equilibrium, I was mentioning that this is the goal.

01:01:47.440 If you could just start and end there, that would be fine.

01:01:51.240 But to extend it to offer a helping hand up would be even better.

01:01:56.680 So what I'm looking for first is, you know, to see what's behind the words.

01:02:01.900 And usually, even with text that's coming at me, I can figure it out.

01:02:07.020 I can usually find what is being desired a little bit, the emotions that are usually given away within text or within speech, which has voice inflection that kind of gives some of it away.

01:02:20.340 Or certainly when it's video or in person, and then you've got body language added to that, that just starts adding to everything.

01:02:27.580 So this is just, if I have my own equilibrium, then I'm good to go and I can just see, okay, where is this person coming from?

01:02:35.800 And in what way can I rebuild the bridge? 0.98

01:02:38.800 Because what you called acting like an asshole or, you know, speaking as an asshole, that was them essentially making their own, what is called in non-final communication groups, tragic expressions of please and thank you. 0.99

01:02:54.440 They have such a PC way of putting it, don't they? 1.00

01:02:58.120 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:59.000 It's filled with jargon terms such as that.

01:03:01.700 I'm not PC, as you can tell.

01:03:03.860 No, yeah, I'm not either.

01:03:06.200 I'm definitely interested more in being somewhat more effective and authentic.

01:03:12.120 So I'm looking to, first, I have to make sure that I have equilibrium.

01:03:17.080 If they said something to me and it actually touches upon something, I notice real feelings coming up.

01:03:23.060 They actually hit upon an aspect wherein I'm self-critical about myself.

01:03:29.320 In other words, in that instance, the insult landed, okay?

01:03:32.680 And I took it in because it was an area that was already sore from me applying it to myself previously.

01:03:39.040 I need to acquire equilibrium again after that.

01:03:42.380 That's the requirement first.

01:03:44.760 And I can usually do that quickly.

01:03:46.240 I pretty much, I see that in most interactions that I have professionally or privately, there's a general understanding of how long the interaction is going to go.

01:03:58.360 And that means how long am I going to have to hold whatever mask on or to hold whatever essential equilibrium that is absolutely necessary.

01:04:09.140 I can essentially be saying these words to myself, ah, quietly, to myself.

01:04:15.340 Wow.

01:04:16.740 When they said that, instantly I noticed I was, you know, when, you know, when, Lana, when you described how inarticulate I was in my interview style, you know, before this interview, I really.

01:04:29.280 I've never said that about you.

01:04:32.040 I'm playing, I'm playing.

01:04:33.460 I know, I know.

01:04:34.120 That hit upon these feelings in me, like, yeah, I've been struggling with this for years, you know?

01:04:40.340 And, like, I gave that own, like, when I watched my own presentation on Tragedy and Hope, merging the trivium with nonviolent communication, my stumbling with words, all of those aspects, the way I didn't look at the camera, you know, that really connected right there.

01:04:56.340 Because I have a desire to communicate effectively and clearly.

01:05:00.800 I have a desire for ease and efficiency.

01:05:03.960 All right, so I identified all of that.

01:05:05.760 What am I going to do about it?

01:05:06.860 This is all done silently.

01:05:08.300 And that next plan, what am I going to do about it?

01:05:10.540 The actions or requests, as in the OFNR part.

01:05:15.260 And the request I make of myself is, Daryl, can you just hold off until after the interview?

01:05:21.260 We're going to go, going to take a little walk by the ocean side.

01:05:24.900 We're going to reflect on this.

01:05:26.100 We're going to write some things down.

01:05:27.980 And we're going to practice some statements out loud so we have articulation better for the next time around.

01:05:35.280 How do you feel?

01:05:36.140 And then internally, I feel so much better.

01:05:39.080 I feel so much better.

01:05:40.360 I can totally handle it now.

01:05:43.760 And all that's done silently.

01:05:45.440 And then from there, it's the aspect of, okay, what's going on?

01:05:49.040 What's alive in them?

01:05:49.920 What's alive in them is the catchphrase in NVC for what are they feeling and what is motivating those feelings, essentially.

01:06:00.140 So, again, you took an obstacle and you spun it around to a positive light and then you said, okay, I'm going to do better the next time.

01:06:08.320 Well, essentially.

01:06:09.400 I mean, that's one way.

01:06:10.660 There are other ways.

01:06:11.740 Like I could indulge in self-punishment protocol number 37.

01:06:15.940 You know, I could do that, you know, call myself the certain names that I have for myself.

01:06:21.900 You know, I could do that.

01:06:24.300 I can tell you from personal experience it's not very effective in acquiring desired results.

01:06:30.440 So, I think you understand what I mean.

01:06:33.000 Oh, yeah.

01:06:33.960 Yeah, it's interesting.

01:06:34.760 Words do have an energetic punch behind them.

01:06:37.020 Or they can be extremely uplifting and pleasant.

01:06:40.820 Right.

01:06:41.020 And there, the punch requires that you actually receive it.

01:06:44.120 Yeah.

01:06:44.440 Right. 0.94

01:06:45.020 So, what I said before about you, you laughed at because you didn't receive it because you could see the ridiculous nature of it. 0.73

01:06:54.460 If I gave you a label that has nothing to do with you, it would be like that, too.

01:06:59.600 But if I gave a label to you that you had already previously given to yourself, the punch could potentially land, basically.

01:07:07.740 And it becomes like that.

01:07:10.100 And so, like interpreting it as a punch and no longer as just words that are someone tipping their hand as to what motivates them.

01:07:18.620 That's the difference right there.

01:07:20.160 So, I basically am trying to promote a methodology wherein people are no longer insulted because it's an option to take the insult in.

01:07:29.600 It's completely optional.

01:07:31.660 I've just been revising my essay and added that aspect to it, basically.

01:07:35.800 And I was giving an and also or an alternative perspective to look through instead wherein you take it as words.

01:07:43.400 And if the words happen to land emotionally, well, equilibrium is your number one goal.

01:07:47.960 But second to that is keeping in mind the three-dimensional reality that's going on.

01:07:53.980 What is going on, basically, is very important.

01:07:56.580 And so, if someone is intentionally trying to upset your equilibrium, that's important information, meaning it's important to know why they want to do that.

01:08:08.400 What is the motivation behind that?

01:08:10.940 Once you have that, you seriously have some, you know, you have some things that can seriously create effectiveness in terms of your designing and applying plans.

01:08:21.720 Last question for you.

01:08:23.560 Taking all these principles and putting them into practice, how has your life changed?

01:08:27.740 Are you just scanning all the time?

01:08:30.900 It becomes automatic and internal at this point.

01:08:35.260 It's no longer scanning.

01:08:37.440 It's more like an internal interpretation of words when necessary.

01:08:43.500 I speak casually when I'm normally talking.

01:08:46.680 This is an interview.

01:08:47.360 This is, I'm kind of partially in lecture mode right now.

01:08:51.340 When I'm teaching, I'm pretty much in lecture mode.

01:08:54.940 Although I am paying attention to my audience, of course. 0.97

01:08:59.400 But, you know, when I'm actually just, you know, shooting the shit, as they say, when I'm just speaking casually, then this is, you know, this is just stuff that's running in the background. 0.98

01:09:10.960 I don't have to think about it anymore. 0.98

01:09:13.900 This has been helpful in terms of, I'm able to talk with people and see that there's a whole lot of people getting angry with some of the conclusions that I, in the past, have brought up.

01:09:27.600 There's a lot more of connection.

01:09:29.020 There's more of those aspects that I put into my essay of creating, essentially, the connection.

01:09:35.520 The bridge is made.

01:09:37.460 Creativity happens more often.

01:09:39.720 Innovation.

01:09:40.960 Seeing, basically, the opportunity within each obstacle.

01:09:46.660 That's what I'm noticing more of, Lana.

01:09:48.920 Daryl, I really appreciate you taking the time for us today.

01:09:51.360 It's been great.

01:09:52.600 Thank you so much.

01:09:53.580 Can you please provide us with the details to your website?

01:09:55.680 Well, very much until I have a real, actual website.

01:10:00.020 I've been using voluntaryvisions.blogspot.com as a place where I can just throw up interviews like this, essays that I write, and other applications.

01:10:12.360 I am working in collaboration with other podcasters, and I'll be aiming to start voluntary mind productions in some time of the near future and starting to have those come up.

01:10:23.780 And to everyone else, have a pleasant morning, afternoon, or evening, wherever you may be.

01:10:28.440 Words like violence break the silence.

01:10:49.780 I'm crashing into my little world, painful to me, it's right through me, don't you understand, oh, my little girl.

01:11:03.020 All I ever wanted, all I ever needed is here, in my arms.

01:11:11.160 Words are very unnecessary, taken only to harm.

01:11:18.460 Words are spoken to be broken.

01:11:46.700 Feelings are intense, feelings are intense, words are trivial, pleasures remain, so does the pain.

01:11:56.100 Words are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:00.460 All I ever wanted, all I ever needed is here, in my arms.

01:12:07.520 Words are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:09.520 Words are very unnecessary, taken only to harm.

01:12:17.320 Words are meaningless andov4, maybe, with I never wanted, all I ever wanted.

01:12:19.520 Words are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:22.400 Words have плоzed in my own life.

01:12:24.080 Words are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:25.740 Words are Kontenges are meaningless and forgettable. 1.00

01:12:26.020 Words are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:27.520 Words are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:28.520 Words are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:28.740 Words are meaningless, alone, if he needs to be viewers.

01:12:29.360 And let's those IDs are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:30.360 Words are meaningless and forgettable.

01:12:31.500 Words are full, 365, potential to harm or may or may have 하는데 speaking.

01:12:31.940 Words are useless, 이용 and forgettable.

01:12:34.040 Pull in my own3000 and kindlyauys like Heather. 0.62

01:12:35.620 you can't forgettable.

01:12:36.880 Words are regular and motivational mercy, in my partner.

01:12:37.560 Words are incredible and sharing совет That master��icio,

01:12:40.480 hastily in the art of oral art life portion of the green點.

01:12:46.520 All I've ever wanted, all I've ever needed is here in my arms

01:13:00.660 Words are very unnecessary, they can only do harm

01:13:09.540 All I've ever wanted, all I've ever needed is here in my arms

01:13:17.660 Words are very unnecessary, they can only do harm

01:13:39.540 All I've ever wanted, all I've ever wanted, all I've ever wanted

01:14:09.540 All I've ever wanted, all I've ever wanted, all I've ever wanted

Radio 3Fourteen - October 16, 2013

Voluntary _ Non Violent Communication

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