In this episode of the Red Ice Radio Network's program, "Deliberate Communication," I speak with Dr. Daryl Luse about his journey into the field of voluntary and nonviolent communication, and the four Ds of disconnected communication.
00:01:16.460So give us an introduction into who you are and what drew you to the study of voluntary or nonviolent communication.
00:01:22.980Well, what drew me into all of this, let's see, it really did very much for me start with trying to take a reading on the many messed up factors of the world.
00:01:36.300This is a couple decades ago, essentially.
00:01:38.820And I went through various series of New Age-y type books, such as The Celestine Prophecy, and trying to essentially see some of the bearing witness of the problems of the world.
00:01:53.660Another one, The Story of B, the other one, Ishmael, these are Daniel Quinn books.
00:02:00.400I called them bearing witness books, books that essentially were bearing witness to what the authors were contending were the problems in the world.
00:02:09.680And as time went on, eventually, the internet happened.
00:02:13.800And then when I moved here to the island of Hawaii, high-speed internet happened for me, personally.
00:02:20.840And with that, that began unzipping more than just these various, I would say, metaphysical and highly out-there components that were being explored by the authors that I was looking into.
00:02:34.900And it began to go a bit further, more into the realm of the actual political assumptions that I had previously made.
00:02:43.460I found essentially the work of Jan Erwin of Gnostic Media, and he was the one to not just introduce me to the trivium method of critical thinking, as many other people were introduced through him and his work, but also he introduced me to Brett Vinat of the School Sucks podcast.
00:03:02.920And it was there that I quickly saw that there was something called the non-aggression principle.
00:03:10.920There were steps leading towards understanding how people could live in harmony with each other, minus actual coercion, which would require people to actually define what coercion is.
00:03:22.720And so these were all these logical steps of understanding these things, just going through bearing witness, where I just essentially am thinking of a concept and absorbing my own internal emotional response to that, but not really having any action plan attached to it.
00:03:38.580Then I was given the trivium method, which we'll get into at some point, which is just essentially an explicit or very understandable, explainable method of critical thinking, of fact-checking, of a methodology of knowing and understanding or learning, and then eventually teaching any particular subject.
00:03:58.960There was still a problem in even understanding the logical fallacy lists was when I saw myself or anyone else communicate to someone else when they were using a logical fallacy.
00:04:10.720There was a defensiveness or, I would have to say, disagreeable emotional responses that were usually happening.
00:04:20.180And I saw that there were limitations to this methodology, which then, through Brett Vinat, he introduced me to Wes Bertrand of CompleteLiberty.com.
00:04:30.280And there, that was my introduction to nonviolent communication, a completely dovetailing method of essentially empathetically communicating to people.
00:04:40.220So this was a process of the last five years of finding and putting these systems together.
00:04:46.460Do you know who it was who actually coined the term voluntary or nonviolent communication?
00:04:50.360Well, nonviolent communication was, as far as I know, coined by Marshall Rosenberg, the student of Carl Rogers, who essentially, as far as I can tell, took the 19 major points of Carl Rogers and very quickly connected the dots between two very important ones.
00:05:09.080That being the emotional response within an individual and the motivating factors, which at first in 72, he called action-oriented wants, W-A-N-T-S.
00:05:21.820And later on, by 92, he had that codified into the word needs, which was essentially referring to the motivating factors such as values, desires, and physiological or ephemeral needs that were the genesis or the cause of any individual's emotions.
00:05:42.680So essentially, he was the one to do that.
00:05:44.920But when I was speaking with Richard Grove over at tragedyandhope.com, another place that I spend a bunch of time at, I heard him directly codify it as voluntary communication.
00:05:56.220And I was like, yep, that sounds great to me.
00:05:59.620Now, before we get into the four Ds of disconnected communication, what would you call the type of communication most of us are involved in on a daily basis?
00:06:07.620For the most part, I don't like to give a hasty generalization for everyone that I've never met about what they do and don't do.
00:06:18.880But I will say that I will call it usually less conscious about their internal terrain.
00:06:26.640Usually, they might be conscious of a surface-level feeling such as frustration.
00:06:31.000But there are deeper feelings, usually almost always findable underneath a surface emotion.
00:06:36.920So just to define that, I would say it would be, I would call it like usually missing grammar or missing the component knowledge, the who, what, where, and when of themselves while they are communicating with someone else or just even while they're trying to communicate to themselves.
00:06:55.140There's usually missing pieces of information.
00:06:57.560So I, you know, I didn't want to give it like a label to say people are all speaking jackal language, which is a term referring to the use of the four Ds, which we're going to get to.
00:07:08.220That, that of essentially giving oneself or other people diagnoses that were unrequested, labels essentially, the methodology of denying responsibility, that of essentially saying, you know, it's not my fault that I'm feeling this.
00:07:27.120It's external, it's someone else's fault that I'm having this emotion.
00:07:30.140So there's a lack of control internally.
00:07:33.280The deserve-oriented language, that of, you know, essentially, I deserve this, they deserve that.
00:07:39.520Whether it's a punishment or a reward, it's part of extrinsic motivations, such as what is taught in public schools.
00:07:46.740And naturally, there's the nastiness of giving demands, which is different than making a request where you can opt out.
00:07:52.940Making a demand of yourself is as disconcerting as making a demand of someone else.
00:08:00.360It's different when there's an actual opt-out option.
00:08:03.360So when it comes down to it, many people are just more like they're missing information about what is actually motivating them.
00:08:10.720And when I mentioned surface-level feelings, I meant that as frustration or anger, jealousy, shame or guilt.
00:08:18.900I meant that are, to me, as far as I'm saying, surface, because every single time when I question myself or others, I'm finding that deep down, there's also simultaneous emotions being felt that I would have to say are just as important to focus upon, such as anxiety, fear, which can only be held on to for so long, and then, of course, sadness or the grief over a missed opportunity of sorts.
00:08:47.080Now, you brought up hasty generalizations, psychological intrusion, demands, deserve-oriented language.
00:08:54.160All of those are violent, wouldn't you say?
00:08:57.560I would say that they would lead to less preferable situations.
00:09:02.380I like to use the words that are a bit less wobbly.
00:09:06.840When people hear violent, they're thinking of actual physical violence often.
00:09:11.160In the same way as if you go to the Center for Nonviolent Communication, cnvc.org, you will see a list of needs and you'll see a list of feelings, the feelings inventory, the needs inventory.
00:09:25.080These are excellent lists, but the problem that I would find with the word need is people will basically interpret the word need as only physiological needs.
00:09:34.760And in the same way, people will interpret violence as only physiological violence.
00:09:40.960Now, I realized that, of course, you could have disagreeable words go back and forth, meaning that people did not desire a specific word.
00:09:51.200They were actually desiring other types of words.
00:09:53.920But the gift of words that came at them was not what they, you know, would have actually ordered if they actually had the capacity to order whatever someone else was, as if it was a restaurant.
00:10:05.040And what you're getting is, you know, what you're putting on your plate is voluntary, like a buffet.
00:10:21.100Insult requires that you interpret the words as the insult.
00:10:26.020It would require also that you actually are taking it.
00:10:30.480In other words, it's like words are the action.
00:10:34.860And then you have to actually be the target that actually accepts it and takes it in.
00:10:40.020And then after taking that insult in, then you could then form your emotional response to it and say that it was external, that it's out of your control.
00:10:52.100You could just take words for being words and that it's the other person is tipping their hand as to what motivates them and also tipping their hand as to what they're feeling.
00:11:02.340This is vital information, I would say.
00:11:04.860Unless they're a superlative actor, this is likely to be somewhat of a genuine actual diagnostic of what's going on within them.
00:11:16.440And by diagnostic, I mean yielding practical information that can be utilized.
00:11:21.600That's why a lot of times it's just good to listen because the other person always reveals their deck of cards.
00:11:28.880Now, is this sort of communication, voluntary communication, is this something that we all have the ability to develop or are some people just inherently better at it?
00:11:37.480I would probably speculate that in the same way as the trivium method of critical thinking, you're born with it.
00:11:47.120I would say that I see most children have this, generally speaking, intact.
00:11:51.680It's just that the difference that I would speculate, though, in terms of the trivium method of critical thinking, that of input, processing, and output, or putting things in order of your knowledge, who, what, where, and when, then going to processing or understanding, asking why, like the little toddler does, and then finding a practical application, meaning actually applying the knowledge and understanding to create a predicted result.
00:12:20.600That takes a little bit more trauma to break from a child, but the conditioning necessary to break empathetic communication or voluntary communication, I think, is less trauma.
00:12:36.160It would take less conditioning to break this.
00:12:39.120I speculate that children and animals are great creatures to look at, you know, whether, I mean, we are creatures, you know, so whether they're little or big.
00:12:47.500But to see little ones who are essentially having all of their fundamental values and desires being respected, you will see this type of communication as being automatically intact.
00:13:01.640If you spend some time traveling to places where people are living much closer to the earth, as I have, you will probably notice that children are crying less and are being held more, are trusted to a greater degree.
00:13:16.780I did learn this somewhat first before I did extensive traveling from the book, The Continuum Concept by Gene Liedloft.
00:13:26.140But I saw it in practice, actually, as well, when I went to Peru, a bit when I went to Jamaica as well, for that matter, and when I went to China.
00:13:34.260I got to see, you know, that, by the way, I was in China when I was 14, but I did, you know, upon recollection of that, which was back, just to date myself, that was 1986 when I was 14.
00:13:47.540So you can give a perspective of who is Daryl Becker.
00:13:56.460So it's my speculation, Lana, that people are born with these methodologies implicitly or implied.
00:14:04.420It's just that there's traumatic conditioning can happen, can quickly break the ability for one to connect within oneself and see what's going on and find a practical application of this information.
00:14:17.680And then, likewise, after you're standing strong, to see what's going on in someone else.
00:14:23.160And you can actually even consider giving them a hand up, because, as we well know, you can't really give someone a hand up if you're already on the ground.
00:14:30.940Yeah, I think what you're saying, there's a lot of truth.
00:14:34.540I mean, a lot of kids, I always wonder about this.
00:14:36.460What happens to some people when they're just not kind?
00:14:41.020So somewhere along the line, when they grew up, they were beaten down or some trauma happened, and now they don't know how to be kind with other people in their conversations, and they don't even realize when they're being unkind.
00:14:52.500Well, yeah, I think that this is just part of the missing information.
00:14:57.380It's kind of like the list of informal logical fallacies.
00:15:00.940You know, there's like a pretty good list of 42 of them that Michael Lebozier wrote out, and then there's at least about a good 200 of them that have been discovered, most of them being variations of one or the other.
00:15:15.200Essentially, all of these are methodologies of silently, hopefully, in one's own head, as like a virus scanner checking the reality of how likely things are going to yield a predictable and desired result.
00:15:41.180For the person who's listening, that's you and perhaps Henrik in the background over there.
00:15:46.600And then all of, of course, everyone who's going to be listening to this interview, what's the reality of my audience as far as their feelings and what is motivating their feelings?
00:15:58.140So it's this missing information that seems to be at the crux of miscommunication or unfortunate communications, not really yielding anything that's nearly desired or practical.
00:16:09.440You talk about the intellectual and empathetic lenses, which is also relevant to the discussion of how NVC fits with trivium.
00:16:16.660So what factors are instrumental in helping one to focus on reality?
00:16:20.880How do we properly use these lenses that you're talking about?
00:16:25.280I think to use a lens, you first have to be able to understand the lens.
00:18:07.780So it comes down to that part of the lens.
00:18:10.120That's one aspect of looking through it, as well as the rhetorical triangle, where the author is understood, the audience is understood, the message is understood, and it flows around in that triangular pattern.
00:20:33.160When it comes down to it, these were codified by Marshall Rosenberg as observations, once again, in the realm of the tangible, like I hear your words, feelings, which is my own internal feelings, the motivating factors, that is essentially what motivates the feelings inside of me to occur, which are essentially correlated to however well I'm doing, you know, in terms of making the motivations happen.
00:20:59.840And then the actions, or requests, that's what he called.
00:21:04.100So observations, feelings, needs, and requests is how he codified this, this methodology.
00:21:09.720It's an endless circle that goes round and round, starting from the tangible, flowing to the intangible, tangible observations, intangible feelings, intangible motivating factors, or needs, as he called it, and then tangible requests, or actions.
00:21:26.380And this is, that's one part of the lens.
00:21:43.360Internally, meaning I'm taking an internal inventory of all of that, both my internal trivium method and my internal OFNR method.
00:21:50.380I'm taking an external observation of how things are going with you and your choice of words, and you and your feelings, and to try to quickly figure out what motivates you, you know, as far as I need to.
00:22:04.440That's an example of using these tools.
00:22:07.920Using the four D's of disconnected communication is a similar method as using your informal logical fallacy list as your virus scanner, essentially.
00:22:19.100I'm looking to see, to make sure, first of all, that I'm not delivering demands, or giving a diagnosis when someone didn't pay me for it, or ask for it, or in some way, deliver the explicit permission to understand it.
00:22:34.660So, in other words, you know, there's this thing where, you know, you're not supposed to judge people.
00:22:55.360What I'm trying to possibly suggest is to keep that silence to oneself, that when you're essentially making an evaluation of someone else or yourself, you're looking for the practical application of that.
00:23:12.380And, of course, if I've found, the practical application of a diagnostic means that you have a treatment plan attached to it that is effective, and that there's some evidence to show that it's effective.
00:23:24.180Obviously, calling someone a name has been shown to be ineffective over and over again.
00:23:30.440So, you know, I generally say, maybe hold off on giving someone a label, especially yourself.
00:23:35.520Maybe go for instead, just trying to understand, like, the purpose of the label.
00:23:42.520The next one, the denial of responsibility, that aspect of, you know, you made me so angry, so I just had to start talking louder and faster.
00:24:05.520And that's different than obligation, which is actually completely a different thing entirely.
00:24:12.280I realize that people will use that word responsibility in their speech or in their mind and define it that way.
00:24:18.720But I would probably suggest in the spirit of and also, rather than either or, perhaps you could look in other ways to define that word.
00:24:28.880And then, of course, there's the deserve-oriented language, punishments and rewards, that type of thing.
00:24:33.800I look through this lens to make sure everything that comes out of me, it's got to pass, so it's not something in one of those, if possible.
00:24:43.720And also, if someone is coming at me with one of those, that's them tipping their hand, and they're sort of showing me a little bit of what they're feeling, and they're showing me what motivates them.
00:24:54.900And then, if someone is coming at me with one of those, that's information, that's information, I can use that.
00:24:59.900Now, let's talk about cognitive dissonance, because we all have that.
00:25:04.020So, how do we go about removing our own sources of cognitive dissonance?
00:25:10.020Yeah, I liked a friendly term called splinters in the mind, mental splinters and emotional splinters, the two flavors that I found I was able to identify.
00:25:21.120And essentially, I used that to, instead of cognitive dissonance, which is a cold and clinical term, because everyone's had a splinter, I know, if you've heard me on some of these other productions, you've heard me go on to this.
00:25:35.320Most people would never touch someone else's splinter, that would be very rude, so you have some respect.
00:25:41.700Splinter is not considered a permanent condition.
00:25:44.160The reason I'm using this term right now to describe cognitive dissonance is so that, instead of saying, oh, we all have cognitive dissonance and there's nothing you can do, I'd say, hey, it's like a splinter.
00:25:59.340You could just take the time to identify it, figure it out, and pull it out.
00:26:05.060And where that space is, where you pull the splinter out, because, you know, that essentially leaves a hole, you can fill that hole, you can pack it with salve, you can definitely, essentially, make it work again.
00:26:18.180It can heal, you know, just like any little splinter pulled out of a foot, basically.
00:26:28.540Cognitive dissonance is not a permanent condition.
00:26:30.560It's a situation wherein there's conflicting mental situations, such as the use of an informal logical fallacy.
00:26:41.820The knowledge of the informal logical fallacies helps you identify the mental versions of these splinters or cognitive dissonance.
00:26:49.900The use of the four Ds of disconnected communication helps you realize the stimulus, emotion, and pre-programmed, especially from past trauma, responses that happen so that, instead, you can take a different plan of action, essentially.
00:27:10.740This is what I would mostly want to focus on, is that, you know, the major purpose of why, essentially, I have been writing and making these productions, is I'm seeing, hey, with these methods, with both sides, with these two lenses, intellectually and empathetically, the most important person to fix is yourself.
00:27:31.940From there, any family difficulties, any interpersonal difficulties, you know, you will find you can stand strong amidst that, but it starts with your own internal environment, basically.
00:27:44.840Yeah, it's hard to catch yourself, too, in your own pre-programmed responses.
00:27:48.560Sometimes you can notice yourself doing it.
00:27:50.860It helps when you have maybe some friends you spend a lot of time with, or a husband, or a girlfriend, or something, because they can help you.
00:27:56.760Hey, you're doing it again, you're doing it again, but it's very difficult to catch yourself.
00:28:01.940It gets easier and easier if you have a methodology, I find.
00:28:06.940See, what I've laid out is essentially an explicit methodology.
00:28:10.020I realize that if this sounds really abstract to you, as I've heard people say, that's very abstract.
00:28:18.740So is the idea of a car and a driver is abstract, until you have practice being a driver of a car, and being part of that system called car and driver, basically.
00:28:31.940When you have just an implied version of, oh, that's cognitive dissonance again, I guess, or I guess I just used a logical fallacy, I guess.
00:28:41.620Well, that's the first step is observing it.
00:28:45.080The second step is saying, okay, so how would you want to do it otherwise?
00:28:49.640And so what I've laid out essentially is, like, I want to have my grammar first, my information, just like a child would, first looking at the sticks, then the logic of how it sets up to make a fast fire, how it sets up to make a smolder fire, and how it sets up to make a failure of any fire.
00:29:56.400I've got pen and paper, my capture device.
00:30:00.040So I'm definitely, you know, it's a process, basically.
00:30:04.020There's a learning curve for all of us.
00:30:06.400I'm basically only five years in, in terms of like my trivium studies, about three years into my nonviolent communication studies.
00:30:14.480And then in terms of actually applying them together, that's probably closer to a good squishing it into, I don't know, probably a good year and a half.
00:30:24.740So these are methodologies that I've been essentially like trying to fold and apply and seeing how they overlap with each other.
00:30:35.620There is a book, Nonviolent Communication.
00:30:37.740It is written in such a way that chapter nine is self-empathy.
00:30:43.360And as you can hear the way I was just describing, not just the tone in my voice, but also in everything I've just said up until now.
00:30:51.780What I was describing was the internal equilibrium, which I'm going to get to, is the goal.
00:30:59.740Because that's the major strength of systems such as nonviolent communication and the trivium method.
00:31:06.120is gaining internal equilibrium so that there is a balance, whether with thoughts or a balance, whether with emotions.
00:31:17.460Balance meaning that essentially you're not riding the roller coaster of emotions and not essentially saying,
00:31:25.340okay, I know life has highs and lows, but at this point I'd like to come back to an even keel so that I could focus on this thing right in front of me,
00:55:32.820Well, I think if you're venting anger, I think that the major violence would be towards oneself.
00:55:41.140Because from what I generally get to see, that anger, like, unless you're, you know, having, like, you have some serious psychokinetic effects with that anger upon other individuals.
00:55:54.400Yeah, some kind of voodoo or witchcraft.
00:55:56.180Yeah, unless it's actually, unless it's actually palpably, you know, is like there's evidence showing it is actually hurting someone physiologically or even bioenergetically, as that's another realm of my studies.
00:56:08.820Um, I'm generally seeing it's mostly just hurting the individual because, as I did mention, it is a surface level emotion.
00:56:16.120Usually, um, I've not yet found that behind the frustration or anger is nothing.
00:56:23.640Usually, I'm finding that behind it is something.
00:56:26.300It's usually, whether it's grief, the missed opportunity, et cetera, or something like that, sadness, or anxiety, some type of consistent held fear or overwhelmed feeling or something of that sort that generates that, or actual fear, the actual palpable in danger moment, fight, flight, or freeze, the three Fs, essentially.
00:56:51.600Um, one of those is usually going on behind the anger.
00:56:56.780The person just is, might or might not be aware of this.
00:57:00.900The hiding it behind body language is their own prerogative.
00:57:09.980I think that it's very good to respect people's privacy.
00:57:12.400It's why I mentioned not, you know, like not bringing up someone else's feelings unless you really are very sure that they're interested in hearing it.
00:57:19.860They're open to hearing it and, you know, that it's not an embarrassment for them to hear it.
00:57:26.020You know, like, uh, this is, these are very important questions to answer.
00:57:43.300Um, so yeah, essentially, when I am standing strong, when all of these aspects are functioning as I've been describing them,
00:57:54.980I can usually take a moment to see each obstacle or problem as a potential opportunity.
00:58:01.320Now, I might not have the answers to how to change that obstacle into an opportunity, but that is the end point goal.
00:58:11.120There are many examples where people apparently, seemingly, have found obstacles and turned them into opportunities.
00:58:18.740As the, the Robin Hood folks over in New Hampshire, these people who essentially put coins into parking meters of expired meters so that people do not get tickets.
00:58:32.120And then they leave a little flyer saying, hey, you just got a visit from the Robin Hood people.
00:58:38.420And, you know, this is, you know, these are people who are essentially trying to prevent you from getting an expensive ticket.
00:58:45.620So there was the problem, people getting tickets.
00:58:50.440And people saw it as an opportunity to spread information and messages concerning the philosophies of voluntarism and a peaceful society in general, I believe.
00:59:01.520I could be a little wrong on that, but in general, I see that this is people helping people and utilizing that as a platform to promote greater awareness on a variety of ideas and principles.
00:59:14.440And that is essentially taking in a problem or an obstacle and turning it into an opportunity.
00:59:21.160So, you know, when other people would try to make a new problem out of this, essentially making it illegal to do that and trying to arrest people who do that.
01:00:03.900And essentially you're working for them to feed the meter.
01:00:07.520And, you know, essentially, you know, they could pass a law making that that business is not allowable.
01:00:12.560It just is one obstacle that can keep becoming an opportunity.
01:00:18.380Every time that there's a system of coercion wherein there is essentially one group or an individual forcing some series of demands or actions upon another group,
01:00:29.820that's the general gist of it that I see.
01:00:33.080It's an opportunity to create a business or some type of artistic expression or, you know, to essentially invent a product.
01:00:41.940It's innovation and creativity that happen.
01:01:39.960So when I mentioned internal emotional and intellectual equilibrium, I was mentioning that this is the goal.
01:01:47.440If you could just start and end there, that would be fine.
01:01:51.240But to extend it to offer a helping hand up would be even better.
01:01:56.680So what I'm looking for first is, you know, to see what's behind the words.
01:02:01.900And usually, even with text that's coming at me, I can figure it out.
01:02:07.020I can usually find what is being desired a little bit, the emotions that are usually given away within text or within speech, which has voice inflection that kind of gives some of it away.
01:02:20.340Or certainly when it's video or in person, and then you've got body language added to that, that just starts adding to everything.
01:02:27.580So this is just, if I have my own equilibrium, then I'm good to go and I can just see, okay, where is this person coming from?
01:02:35.800And in what way can I rebuild the bridge?
01:02:38.800Because what you called acting like an asshole or, you know, speaking as an asshole, that was them essentially making their own, what is called in non-final communication groups, tragic expressions of please and thank you.
01:02:54.440They have such a PC way of putting it, don't they?
01:03:46.240I pretty much, I see that in most interactions that I have professionally or privately, there's a general understanding of how long the interaction is going to go.
01:03:58.360And that means how long am I going to have to hold whatever mask on or to hold whatever essential equilibrium that is absolutely necessary.
01:04:09.140I can essentially be saying these words to myself, ah, quietly, to myself.
01:04:16.740When they said that, instantly I noticed I was, you know, when, you know, when, Lana, when you described how inarticulate I was in my interview style, you know, before this interview, I really.
01:04:34.120That hit upon these feelings in me, like, yeah, I've been struggling with this for years, you know?
01:04:40.340And, like, I gave that own, like, when I watched my own presentation on Tragedy and Hope, merging the trivium with nonviolent communication, my stumbling with words, all of those aspects, the way I didn't look at the camera, you know, that really connected right there.
01:04:56.340Because I have a desire to communicate effectively and clearly.
01:05:00.800I have a desire for ease and efficiency.
01:05:03.960All right, so I identified all of that.
01:07:31.660I've just been revising my essay and added that aspect to it, basically.
01:07:35.800And I was giving an and also or an alternative perspective to look through instead wherein you take it as words.
01:07:43.400And if the words happen to land emotionally, well, equilibrium is your number one goal.
01:07:47.960But second to that is keeping in mind the three-dimensional reality that's going on.
01:07:53.980What is going on, basically, is very important.
01:07:56.580And so, if someone is intentionally trying to upset your equilibrium, that's important information, meaning it's important to know why they want to do that.
01:08:10.940Once you have that, you seriously have some, you know, you have some things that can seriously create effectiveness in terms of your designing and applying plans.
01:08:47.360This is, I'm kind of partially in lecture mode right now.
01:08:51.340When I'm teaching, I'm pretty much in lecture mode.
01:08:54.940Although I am paying attention to my audience, of course.
01:08:59.400But, you know, when I'm actually just, you know, shooting the shit, as they say, when I'm just speaking casually, then this is, you know, this is just stuff that's running in the background.
01:09:10.960I don't have to think about it anymore.
01:09:13.900This has been helpful in terms of, I'm able to talk with people and see that there's a whole lot of people getting angry with some of the conclusions that I, in the past, have brought up.
01:09:53.580Can you please provide us with the details to your website?
01:09:55.680Well, very much until I have a real, actual website.
01:10:00.020I've been using voluntaryvisions.blogspot.com as a place where I can just throw up interviews like this, essays that I write, and other applications.
01:10:12.360I am working in collaboration with other podcasters, and I'll be aiming to start voluntary mind productions in some time of the near future and starting to have those come up.
01:10:23.780And to everyone else, have a pleasant morning, afternoon, or evening, wherever you may be.
01:10:28.440Words like violence break the silence.
01:10:49.780I'm crashing into my little world, painful to me, it's right through me, don't you understand, oh, my little girl.
01:11:03.020All I ever wanted, all I ever needed is here, in my arms.
01:11:11.160Words are very unnecessary, taken only to harm.