RadixJournal - October 14, 2022


A Slice of Toxic Americana


Episode Stats

Length

24 minutes

Words per Minute

130.287

Word Count

3,220

Sentence Count

182

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

8


Summary

Alexandria Ocasio-cortez is a conservative radio host and podcaster. He is a vocal critic of the Trump regime and has been accused of anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism. Alexandria and I talk about his controversial views on the Trump administration, and whether or not he should be protected by the First Amendment.


Transcript

00:00:00.160 Hey guys, how are you doing?
00:00:03.220 Good, how are you this evening?
00:00:05.120 Good.
00:00:06.640 I am doing well.
00:00:09.080 So, we have the
00:00:11.220 situation
00:00:13.160 where my kids
00:00:15.540 are here,
00:00:17.540 they're going to get sleepy soon,
00:00:19.720 and then I will return.
00:00:23.680 Yes, they're making a Halloween house.
00:00:26.420 You know, a gingerbread house?
00:00:27.640 All of that stuff has
00:00:30.340 migrated to Halloween now.
00:00:33.760 Is there a war on Halloween?
00:00:36.640 Have conservatives claimed that?
00:00:39.460 Liberals just hate Halloween?
00:00:42.440 They want to take it away from you?
00:00:44.360 Yeah, there's a war on everything, so.
00:00:50.960 So, I
00:00:52.160 had a few
00:00:54.480 thoughts about
00:00:56.760 some things.
00:00:58.900 Let me grab this
00:01:00.300 book that I was working on.
00:01:04.680 So, is the Alex Jones
00:01:06.540 situation, does that interest you guys?
00:01:10.400 I find the whole thing, well, it's sad,
00:01:12.520 but it's sort of fascinating.
00:01:14.660 Just as a preface,
00:01:16.640 I feel terrible for the parents that lost
00:01:18.620 their children in this
00:01:20.620 horrific act of terror,
00:01:21.860 and his jerk-off fans
00:01:24.120 are basically harassing them.
00:01:25.560 I mean,
00:01:26.540 it just,
00:01:27.540 I just,
00:01:28.480 I just, I have no words,
00:01:30.780 quite frankly.
00:01:31.980 Yeah.
00:01:32.640 I mean, I,
00:01:33.680 I have some ambivalence
00:01:35.320 about the whole situation.
00:01:39.020 It's interesting
00:01:40.140 that
00:01:41.340 all of the conservatives
00:01:43.420 circled the wagons
00:01:44.840 on Alex Jones,
00:01:46.020 and they basically
00:01:48.660 said,
00:01:49.580 you know,
00:01:50.900 they're attacking him
00:01:52.300 because he criticizes
00:01:53.700 the regime,
00:01:54.660 which is a,
00:01:56.160 a common tagline
00:01:57.860 that they've
00:01:58.900 picked up on.
00:02:01.360 It's to kind of,
00:02:02.560 I guess,
00:02:02.820 objectify
00:02:03.780 the government.
00:02:05.500 It's, you know,
00:02:05.980 the regime.
00:02:07.660 Similar to the globalists.
00:02:08.800 Globalists.
00:02:10.080 Air quotes.
00:02:10.480 Exactly.
00:02:10.960 Right?
00:02:11.220 Like,
00:02:11.460 who are,
00:02:12.240 you don't,
00:02:12.740 you don't know exactly
00:02:14.200 what it means.
00:02:16.520 And,
00:02:17.360 and they certainly
00:02:18.940 wouldn't say that
00:02:20.020 with regard to Trump.
00:02:21.020 It would be like,
00:02:21.660 America.
00:02:23.280 I saw another
00:02:24.600 line
00:02:25.720 from Charlie Kirk,
00:02:27.480 which was,
00:02:28.720 which is something
00:02:29.720 that makes
00:02:30.880 absolutely no sense
00:02:32.540 and they always use,
00:02:33.840 which is,
00:02:34.640 if they could do this
00:02:35.840 to Alex Jones,
00:02:37.040 think about
00:02:37.640 what they'll do to you.
00:02:39.860 So it's,
00:02:40.760 it's this,
00:02:42.040 I guess the notion is,
00:02:43.680 if there is a sense to it,
00:02:45.340 that Alex Jones
00:02:47.140 has made,
00:02:48.340 you know,
00:02:48.760 millions off selling people
00:02:50.380 diet plans
00:02:52.100 and,
00:02:52.880 you know,
00:02:54.060 brain,
00:02:55.420 muscle,
00:02:56.220 semen oils
00:02:57.020 and who God knows what.
00:03:00.200 And so he has tons of money
00:03:01.660 and can hire lawyers.
00:03:02.600 So like,
00:03:02.900 imagine what it would be for you
00:03:04.440 who's living paycheck to paycheck
00:03:06.340 and,
00:03:06.740 you know,
00:03:08.220 they would just crush you.
00:03:10.560 Well,
00:03:11.060 of course,
00:03:11.480 the answer to that
00:03:12.100 is that they're not
00:03:12.780 just going to go after
00:03:14.240 random people
00:03:15.860 on social media.
00:03:17.240 I mean,
00:03:17.380 at the very worst,
00:03:18.440 they're going to take away
00:03:19.500 your Twitter account.
00:03:23.940 You know,
00:03:24.780 whatever you want to say
00:03:25.800 about that.
00:03:26.300 They're not going to just
00:03:26.980 start going after you
00:03:28.540 through the court system.
00:03:30.320 The other thing
00:03:31.420 is that,
00:03:31.840 you know,
00:03:32.200 free speech
00:03:32.920 is truly dead
00:03:33.920 or whatever.
00:03:34.700 Well,
00:03:35.740 free speech
00:03:36.260 has never been
00:03:38.140 an absolute right.
00:03:39.180 And I've done
00:03:40.140 my bit
00:03:41.800 on this
00:03:42.400 a few times
00:03:43.480 of my own
00:03:46.460 ambivalence
00:03:47.220 about the free speech
00:03:48.620 legal notion
00:03:50.620 that has
00:03:51.780 been passed down
00:03:53.200 from Oliver Wendell Holmes,
00:03:55.660 at least
00:03:56.040 the Supreme Court justice.
00:03:57.940 Those ideas
00:03:58.660 weren't exactly his.
00:03:59.980 But I do think
00:04:01.680 there are actually
00:04:02.260 some problems
00:04:03.340 to that
00:04:03.940 notion of free speech.
00:04:07.220 But anyway,
00:04:08.680 the Blackwell,
00:04:09.620 the kind of common law notion
00:04:10.980 is something different.
00:04:12.660 It is about
00:04:13.240 not preemptively
00:04:15.200 taking away
00:04:16.160 your ability
00:04:17.180 to engage in speech.
00:04:19.080 It is not necessarily
00:04:20.520 not punishing you
00:04:22.280 for your actual speech.
00:04:24.980 And that is
00:04:26.400 the original conception.
00:04:28.900 And Oliver Wendell Holmes
00:04:29.860 actually in his dissent
00:04:31.600 on,
00:04:32.420 I guess it was
00:04:32.820 Abrams
00:04:33.400 versus the U.S.
00:04:34.020 government,
00:04:34.380 I believe,
00:04:35.500 acknowledges this.
00:04:37.880 And he acknowledges
00:04:38.780 that the United States
00:04:39.940 is something new.
00:04:41.060 It's an experiment,
00:04:42.080 a marketplace
00:04:42.660 of ideas.
00:04:44.720 I mean,
00:04:45.180 to his credit,
00:04:45.880 he acknowledged
00:04:46.440 that he was actually
00:04:47.460 putting forth
00:04:48.460 a new conception
00:04:49.780 of law
00:04:51.160 in a dissent
00:04:53.440 to a Supreme Court
00:04:54.760 decision
00:04:55.200 that actually
00:04:56.000 upheld
00:04:56.700 a prosecution
00:04:58.040 of anarchist
00:05:00.260 Bolsheviks
00:05:01.460 handing out pamphlets
00:05:03.320 in New York City
00:05:04.060 or wherever it was.
00:05:05.480 But, you know,
00:05:06.280 notions of defamation
00:05:08.260 have never
00:05:10.040 been protected speech.
00:05:12.620 Obviously,
00:05:13.160 you cannot use speech
00:05:14.720 to break the law.
00:05:17.020 You can't use speech
00:05:18.720 to buy and sell drugs,
00:05:20.480 say,
00:05:21.160 and say,
00:05:21.580 oh,
00:05:21.740 this is my freedom,
00:05:22.920 you know,
00:05:23.060 my First Amendment right
00:05:24.220 that you're
00:05:25.220 jailing me for.
00:05:27.160 And things like
00:05:28.380 defamation
00:05:28.940 have been out there.
00:05:29.700 Now,
00:05:29.820 defamation is
00:05:30.600 much more
00:05:31.400 strict
00:05:32.520 in the UK,
00:05:34.180 famously,
00:05:35.400 but it does
00:05:37.100 occur here.
00:05:38.540 And the way
00:05:40.180 it's,
00:05:42.180 you know,
00:05:42.420 things like libel
00:05:43.440 and these kinds
00:05:44.400 of notions,
00:05:45.500 the way they're understood
00:05:46.280 is reckless
00:05:47.440 disregard for the truth
00:05:48.960 or some kind
00:05:49.800 of malice.
00:05:51.440 So,
00:05:51.960 in effect,
00:05:52.640 you have the right
00:05:53.840 to be wrong,
00:05:55.400 obviously.
00:05:56.840 So,
00:05:57.140 you know,
00:05:57.400 you're not,
00:05:58.580 you can,
00:06:00.240 I don't know,
00:06:01.260 if someone is murdered,
00:06:02.380 you could speculate
00:06:03.320 that about that online.
00:06:04.780 Oh,
00:06:04.900 I think it was
00:06:05.780 his business partner.
00:06:09.580 And if you aren't,
00:06:11.440 you know,
00:06:12.400 maliciously trying
00:06:13.840 to demean
00:06:15.160 this person,
00:06:16.220 that is,
00:06:17.140 I would imagine,
00:06:18.080 covered by free speech.
00:06:19.640 but just
00:06:21.480 maliciously
00:06:22.840 disregarding
00:06:24.760 the truth
00:06:25.440 and claiming
00:06:26.200 that,
00:06:26.780 you know,
00:06:28.100 Jim Bob
00:06:28.840 Womack,
00:06:29.960 he actually,
00:06:30.940 he murdered
00:06:32.540 his wife
00:06:33.640 or whatever.
00:06:34.560 If you're doing
00:06:35.160 that without
00:06:35.680 any evidence
00:06:36.500 or any semblance
00:06:37.780 of reason,
00:06:38.380 then you are
00:06:39.060 defaming him
00:06:40.340 maliciously,
00:06:41.100 particularly if you
00:06:41.620 have a motive
00:06:42.260 to do it.
00:06:43.540 I guess Alex Jones'
00:06:44.840 motive was
00:06:45.740 to
00:06:46.180 just,
00:06:49.000 you know,
00:06:49.440 isolate a target
00:06:50.880 and then get his fans
00:06:53.000 whipped up
00:06:53.600 into a frenzy
00:06:54.500 and
00:06:54.920 profit off that,
00:06:57.880 just create
00:06:58.480 a kind of team
00:06:59.700 that is,
00:07:01.620 you know,
00:07:02.060 on to the truth
00:07:03.220 and things like this.
00:07:05.500 I can see it
00:07:07.000 and
00:07:07.880 I can see
00:07:10.060 how Alex Jones
00:07:11.280 did absolutely
00:07:12.400 engage
00:07:13.200 in
00:07:13.720 defamation
00:07:15.140 and,
00:07:16.260 you know,
00:07:17.700 a billion dollars,
00:07:19.180 that seems a bit much,
00:07:20.300 but,
00:07:20.600 you know,
00:07:20.860 there's no doubt
00:07:21.760 if you put yourself
00:07:22.600 in the shoes
00:07:23.160 of these people,
00:07:24.420 you're,
00:07:24.860 this unspeakable
00:07:26.680 crime has occurred
00:07:27.880 that affects you
00:07:29.540 personally
00:07:30.160 and then you have
00:07:31.240 some
00:07:32.140 blowhard
00:07:33.440 online
00:07:34.340 saying that
00:07:35.740 you and
00:07:36.660 George Soros
00:07:37.780 were engaging
00:07:39.020 in some elaborate
00:07:40.080 scheme
00:07:40.640 to take away
00:07:41.280 gun rights.
00:07:42.320 I mean,
00:07:42.760 I can
00:07:43.320 totally understand
00:07:44.800 that that would
00:07:45.480 have caused
00:07:46.520 hurt,
00:07:47.280 heartache,
00:07:47.960 sleepless nights,
00:07:49.960 depression,
00:07:51.480 outrage,
00:07:52.260 et cetera.
00:07:53.100 So,
00:07:54.480 I get it.
00:07:56.780 And I think
00:07:57.900 with Alex Jones,
00:07:59.200 it's hard to defend
00:08:00.820 him in this instance.
00:08:02.400 But,
00:08:02.840 I don't think
00:08:04.240 the conservatives
00:08:05.160 are completely
00:08:06.340 wrong
00:08:07.260 when they
00:08:08.820 suggest that
00:08:09.880 they're going
00:08:10.680 after him
00:08:11.600 because he
00:08:12.620 is the
00:08:13.120 grand
00:08:13.700 poobah
00:08:14.360 of
00:08:15.220 conspiracy
00:08:15.960 theories.
00:08:17.160 And even
00:08:17.700 though this
00:08:18.100 started
00:08:18.520 before Trump,
00:08:20.380 there,
00:08:20.660 you know,
00:08:21.000 that's kind
00:08:21.800 of thrown
00:08:22.440 into the mix.
00:08:24.600 And it
00:08:25.700 does become
00:08:26.820 a kind of
00:08:27.560 political
00:08:28.100 and culture
00:08:28.860 war.
00:08:29.320 And I think
00:08:29.780 that's true.
00:08:31.040 It does
00:08:31.740 have the
00:08:32.660 feel of that,
00:08:33.880 even if,
00:08:34.540 like,
00:08:34.680 the technical,
00:08:35.600 legal
00:08:35.980 qualities of
00:08:37.880 this are
00:08:38.720 something else.
00:08:39.660 Now,
00:08:40.380 obviously,
00:08:40.920 Alex Jones
00:08:41.580 does himself
00:08:42.260 no favors.
00:08:43.160 He has
00:08:44.140 apologized,
00:08:45.220 I guess,
00:08:45.840 but then
00:08:46.280 he'll
00:08:47.180 unapologize
00:08:48.360 in some way
00:08:49.100 and he'll
00:08:50.220 attack
00:08:51.120 the judge.
00:08:52.320 I mean,
00:08:52.580 he's,
00:08:53.740 it seems
00:08:54.980 like he's
00:08:55.760 suicidal
00:08:56.420 or he's
00:08:57.320 just
00:08:57.640 making it
00:08:59.280 worse
00:08:59.840 and playing
00:09:01.620 up the fact
00:09:02.180 that he's a
00:09:02.620 victim when,
00:09:03.520 in fact,
00:09:04.280 this is an
00:09:04.940 actual law.
00:09:06.520 This is not
00:09:07.420 some,
00:09:09.260 you know,
00:09:09.480 again,
00:09:10.040 I'm not
00:09:10.880 denying the
00:09:11.540 political
00:09:11.940 quality to
00:09:12.680 all this,
00:09:13.120 but it
00:09:13.980 is a
00:09:14.320 law in
00:09:14.640 the book,
00:09:15.040 so you
00:09:15.960 got to
00:09:16.220 get real
00:09:16.660 here.
00:09:17.900 But yes,
00:09:19.380 it is a
00:09:19.880 culture war
00:09:20.440 as well.
00:09:22.180 But I
00:09:22.760 guess what
00:09:23.680 I was
00:09:24.200 thinking
00:09:24.700 about this
00:09:25.780 is that,
00:09:27.380 you know,
00:09:29.160 we have
00:09:29.860 these,
00:09:30.360 and this
00:09:30.700 is something
00:09:31.480 that certainly
00:09:32.220 affects me
00:09:33.220 personally as
00:09:34.720 well.
00:09:35.320 It reminds
00:09:36.480 me of the
00:09:37.020 Charlottesville
00:09:37.800 case.
00:09:38.980 I was
00:09:40.880 never
00:09:41.480 arrested
00:09:42.340 during
00:09:43.920 Charlottesville.
00:09:45.540 I might
00:09:46.860 have,
00:09:47.540 I don't
00:09:48.180 know,
00:09:48.540 preferred to
00:09:49.300 have been
00:09:49.720 arrested on
00:09:50.680 some level
00:09:51.480 because it
00:09:52.940 would have
00:09:53.340 taken me
00:09:54.860 out of that
00:09:55.600 situation
00:09:56.300 safely
00:09:58.180 and not,
00:10:01.100 you know,
00:10:01.420 I actually
00:10:02.080 did escape
00:10:03.320 Charlottesville
00:10:04.240 in rather
00:10:06.280 dangerous
00:10:06.860 circumstances.
00:10:08.000 But putting
00:10:08.880 that aside,
00:10:10.620 the way
00:10:11.440 that people
00:10:12.740 tried to
00:10:13.800 prevent
00:10:14.480 another
00:10:15.020 Charlottesville
00:10:15.780 was to
00:10:16.920 create this
00:10:17.800 massive
00:10:18.580 burden
00:10:19.260 that a
00:10:21.160 Damocletian
00:10:21.860 sword that
00:10:22.560 hangs over
00:10:23.160 everyone's
00:10:23.580 head,
00:10:23.960 which is
00:10:24.260 that we
00:10:24.940 are going
00:10:25.280 to sue
00:10:25.860 you in
00:10:26.400 civil
00:10:26.820 court for
00:10:27.960 something.
00:10:28.660 And we've
00:10:30.220 got the
00:10:30.680 big gun
00:10:31.240 lawyers,
00:10:32.320 you idiots
00:10:32.940 are going
00:10:33.240 to be,
00:10:33.680 you know,
00:10:34.660 impoverished,
00:10:35.460 you're going
00:10:35.760 pro se,
00:10:36.660 and we're
00:10:37.020 just going
00:10:37.360 to crush
00:10:37.940 you.
00:10:38.200 It is
00:10:38.960 this civil,
00:10:40.780 I mean,
00:10:40.980 again,
00:10:41.360 this is
00:10:41.620 what Alex
00:10:42.880 Jones went
00:10:43.660 through,
00:10:44.020 what I've
00:10:44.440 gone through,
00:10:45.300 it's civil
00:10:45.860 matter,
00:10:46.320 it's not a
00:10:46.660 criminal
00:10:46.960 matter.
00:10:47.900 I was
00:10:48.280 never
00:10:48.500 arrested,
00:10:49.400 I was
00:10:49.780 surprisingly
00:10:50.840 never
00:10:52.760 investigated
00:10:54.800 or asked,
00:10:56.780 I think I
00:10:57.120 was asked
00:10:57.540 to participate
00:10:58.140 in the
00:10:58.560 Heapy
00:10:58.820 report and
00:10:59.460 I declined.
00:11:00.240 I actually
00:11:00.680 kind of
00:11:01.080 regret doing
00:11:01.680 that.
00:11:02.060 I would
00:11:03.020 have preferred
00:11:03.500 to have
00:11:04.100 participated
00:11:04.700 actually,
00:11:05.680 because the
00:11:06.060 Heapy
00:11:06.280 report was
00:11:07.100 very good
00:11:08.320 and very
00:11:08.680 serious,
00:11:09.340 but I
00:11:09.740 also wasn't
00:11:10.440 subpoenaed,
00:11:11.120 and he,
00:11:12.020 I don't know
00:11:12.640 if he could
00:11:12.940 have done
00:11:13.180 that or
00:11:13.460 not,
00:11:13.760 maybe he
00:11:14.320 could have.
00:11:15.480 I actually
00:11:16.260 regret not
00:11:17.580 collaborating,
00:11:18.940 but,
00:11:19.460 you know,
00:11:21.140 when you go
00:11:21.600 and talk
00:11:22.180 about a
00:11:22.540 situation,
00:11:23.220 you are
00:11:23.520 kind of
00:11:23.880 putting
00:11:24.400 yourself
00:11:24.840 in jeopardy.
00:11:25.560 Anyway,
00:11:26.160 that's neither
00:11:26.620 here nor
00:11:26.940 there.
00:11:28.160 Heapy report
00:11:28.860 was good
00:11:29.300 without me,
00:11:29.880 and it
00:11:30.080 didn't
00:11:30.540 involve me.
00:11:32.300 But what
00:11:33.220 I'm saying
00:11:33.740 is this
00:11:34.140 use of
00:11:35.660 the civil
00:11:37.360 court system
00:11:38.740 in order
00:11:39.620 for people
00:11:41.260 to pursue
00:11:42.020 things that
00:11:42.920 are ultimately
00:11:43.600 political.
00:11:44.340 Obviously,
00:11:45.380 the Charlottesville
00:11:46.020 case was
00:11:46.580 outrageous
00:11:47.340 and completely
00:11:49.420 political or
00:11:50.280 ideological or
00:11:51.300 personal,
00:11:51.920 however you
00:11:52.240 want to
00:11:52.420 describe it.
00:11:53.380 This one,
00:11:54.100 a little bit
00:11:54.480 less so with
00:11:55.160 Alex.
00:11:55.380 I'm having,
00:11:56.180 I'm kind of
00:11:56.720 struggling here
00:11:57.800 to defend
00:11:58.400 him,
00:11:58.780 as you can
00:11:59.620 tell.
00:12:00.140 But there
00:12:00.840 are just
00:12:01.440 serious
00:12:02.000 problems
00:12:02.880 to the
00:12:04.340 use of
00:12:05.000 the civil
00:12:05.380 courts
00:12:05.880 like this
00:12:06.820 for
00:12:08.040 political
00:12:09.060 ends.
00:12:10.520 And on
00:12:10.940 some level,
00:12:11.940 I would
00:12:12.600 just
00:12:13.100 appreciate
00:12:14.100 an actual
00:12:15.440 speech code.
00:12:17.420 And I've
00:12:18.500 made this
00:12:18.920 argument about
00:12:19.880 Twitter and
00:12:20.580 social media,
00:12:21.400 which is that
00:12:22.060 why don't
00:12:23.080 they just
00:12:23.860 literally
00:12:24.820 tell us
00:12:25.900 what we
00:12:26.680 can say
00:12:27.380 and what
00:12:27.840 we cannot
00:12:28.300 say?
00:12:30.300 Wouldn't
00:12:30.860 that just
00:12:31.440 simply be
00:12:32.200 better?
00:12:32.420 And you
00:12:32.740 do see a
00:12:33.320 little degree
00:12:33.980 of that.
00:12:34.580 I think
00:12:35.180 on Twitch,
00:12:36.800 you kind
00:12:37.360 of can't
00:12:38.000 use any
00:12:39.100 ethnic
00:12:41.460 slander,
00:12:42.740 but whatever.
00:12:43.620 So I
00:12:43.900 think,
00:12:44.440 you know,
00:12:44.860 like Hassan
00:12:45.520 got suspended
00:12:47.080 for a week
00:12:47.940 for using
00:12:48.460 cracker,
00:12:49.400 and I
00:12:49.800 think he
00:12:50.200 used it
00:12:50.780 in a
00:12:51.280 circumstance
00:12:52.420 that I
00:12:52.880 don't think
00:12:53.200 would really
00:12:53.620 offend
00:12:54.120 anyone.
00:12:54.920 But they
00:12:55.760 stuck to
00:12:56.780 their,
00:12:58.160 you know,
00:12:58.380 the letter
00:12:58.720 of the law,
00:13:00.000 the letter
00:13:00.400 of the TOS,
00:13:01.180 and I
00:13:01.380 actually appreciate
00:13:02.240 that in a
00:13:03.740 way, not
00:13:04.060 just because
00:13:04.520 Hassan is
00:13:05.200 horrible,
00:13:05.740 but because
00:13:06.840 I would
00:13:07.980 prefer just
00:13:09.320 explicit
00:13:10.220 codes.
00:13:12.080 And as
00:13:12.980 opposed to
00:13:13.560 the idea
00:13:14.100 that you're
00:13:14.540 going to
00:13:14.920 sue someone
00:13:15.740 into oblivion,
00:13:17.020 the civil
00:13:17.540 court wasn't
00:13:18.360 meant to
00:13:19.500 be used
00:13:20.300 in this
00:13:20.640 way.
00:13:21.620 And there's
00:13:22.620 an interesting
00:13:23.380 case,
00:13:24.800 let me find
00:13:25.840 it here,
00:13:26.820 that actually
00:13:27.920 picks this
00:13:29.180 up.
00:13:29.480 So this
00:13:30.460 is New
00:13:32.080 York Times
00:13:32.840 versus
00:13:33.220 Sullivan.
00:13:35.140 What a
00:13:35.580 state may
00:13:36.140 not
00:13:36.460 constitutionally
00:13:37.980 bring about
00:13:38.640 by means
00:13:39.120 of criminal
00:13:39.780 statute is
00:13:40.600 likewise
00:13:40.920 beyond the
00:13:41.800 reach of
00:13:42.300 its civil
00:13:42.900 law of
00:13:43.540 libel.
00:13:45.200 The fear
00:13:45.800 of damage
00:13:46.560 awards under
00:13:47.720 a rule such
00:13:48.740 as that
00:13:49.140 invoked by
00:13:49.860 the Alabama
00:13:50.480 courts,
00:13:51.000 this is when
00:13:51.580 Alabama was
00:13:52.700 prosecuting
00:13:53.280 the New
00:13:53.420 York Times,
00:13:53.820 by the
00:13:54.820 Alabama
00:13:55.360 courts here
00:13:56.480 may be
00:13:57.020 markedly
00:13:57.760 more
00:13:58.120 inhibiting
00:13:58.800 than the
00:13:59.820 fear of
00:14:00.480 prosecution
00:14:01.100 under a
00:14:01.820 criminal
00:14:02.140 statute.
00:14:02.980 The
00:14:03.220 judgment
00:14:03.840 awarded in
00:14:05.440 this case
00:14:05.940 without the
00:14:06.420 need for
00:14:06.800 any proof
00:14:07.480 of actual
00:14:08.560 pecuniary
00:14:09.200 loss was
00:14:10.440 1,000 times
00:14:11.740 greater than
00:14:12.340 the maximum
00:14:13.000 fine provided
00:14:14.140 by the
00:14:14.580 Alabama
00:14:15.100 statute for
00:14:15.880 criminal
00:14:16.200 libel,
00:14:16.900 and 100
00:14:17.580 times greater
00:14:18.380 than that
00:14:19.800 provided by
00:14:20.420 the Sedition
00:14:21.180 Act.
00:14:22.680 And so
00:14:23.200 this took
00:14:23.860 place,
00:14:24.680 this case,
00:14:26.740 which actually
00:14:27.400 came about
00:14:27.800 in the midst
00:14:28.140 of the
00:14:28.360 civil rights
00:14:28.900 struggle,
00:14:29.240 it was
00:14:29.280 1964.
00:14:30.740 What it's
00:14:31.360 saying is
00:14:32.280 that let's
00:14:33.740 say you
00:14:34.580 had actual
00:14:35.660 speech codes,
00:14:37.460 and so
00:14:38.000 there was a
00:14:40.340 criminal code
00:14:41.600 on the
00:14:42.140 books.
00:14:43.260 They're not
00:14:43.740 going to
00:14:44.780 like,
00:14:46.860 there's no
00:14:47.540 fine that's
00:14:48.440 going to be
00:14:48.780 a billion
00:14:49.400 dollars for
00:14:50.360 something like
00:14:50.860 this.
00:14:51.240 and wouldn't
00:14:53.640 you rather
00:14:54.320 in a way
00:14:55.180 pay a
00:14:56.260 thousand
00:14:56.700 dollars and
00:14:57.760 go to
00:14:58.320 jail for
00:14:59.040 a month
00:14:59.480 than be
00:15:01.280 on the
00:15:01.720 hook for
00:15:02.240 a billion
00:15:02.980 or these
00:15:04.020 sums that
00:15:04.980 are just
00:15:05.340 kind of
00:15:06.280 ultimately
00:15:06.900 pulled out
00:15:07.560 of thin
00:15:07.920 air and
00:15:08.580 that are
00:15:09.120 constitutionally
00:15:10.560 controlled,
00:15:11.440 but are
00:15:12.640 ultimately
00:15:13.000 awarded by
00:15:13.860 juries.
00:15:15.140 That is
00:15:15.860 morons.
00:15:16.680 And it's
00:15:19.260 like, we
00:15:19.840 want to
00:15:20.540 avoid, we're
00:15:21.800 so afraid
00:15:22.960 due to our
00:15:23.660 obsession with
00:15:24.460 free speech
00:15:25.220 that no one
00:15:26.680 supports actual
00:15:28.360 speech codes,
00:15:29.300 just saying
00:15:30.160 outright, you
00:15:31.600 can't say
00:15:32.680 this, you
00:15:33.240 can't quite,
00:15:34.340 you cannot
00:15:35.020 revise the
00:15:36.020 Holocaust, for
00:15:36.920 instance.
00:15:38.300 You can't
00:15:39.820 just directly
00:15:41.220 engage in
00:15:43.300 a discussion
00:15:44.440 of this
00:15:46.020 or that.
00:15:46.640 We're so
00:15:47.200 deathly
00:15:47.860 afraid and
00:15:48.500 we pat
00:15:48.980 ourselves on
00:15:49.640 the back
00:15:50.220 for the
00:15:51.060 fact that
00:15:51.840 you're free
00:15:53.220 in the
00:15:53.520 country.
00:15:54.040 I would
00:15:54.460 defend your
00:15:55.140 right to
00:15:55.800 talk about
00:15:56.840 the Holocaust
00:15:57.420 or race
00:15:58.340 or moon
00:16:00.020 landing or
00:16:00.740 whatever.
00:16:01.440 I would
00:16:01.680 defend your
00:16:02.400 right even
00:16:02.840 though you're
00:16:03.200 dead wrong.
00:16:04.800 How amazing
00:16:05.860 we are.
00:16:08.720 Now, if
00:16:09.720 you're just
00:16:10.220 revising the
00:16:12.880 moon landing,
00:16:13.900 I doubt
00:16:14.240 anyone's going
00:16:14.860 to sue
00:16:15.360 you, although
00:16:15.860 I guess
00:16:16.240 they could
00:16:16.900 on some
00:16:17.300 weird level
00:16:18.180 of emotional
00:16:19.160 distress due
00:16:20.680 to this.
00:16:21.920 But it
00:16:22.840 does create
00:16:23.880 this very
00:16:25.320 strange
00:16:26.080 atmosphere
00:16:26.760 where
00:16:27.940 marginal
00:16:32.060 or extreme
00:16:34.220 or unpopular
00:16:35.920 political opinion
00:16:37.020 is in a
00:16:38.460 way litigated
00:16:39.740 through the
00:16:40.640 civil courts.
00:16:41.640 So, again,
00:16:43.520 this defamation
00:16:44.560 is a real
00:16:45.360 thing.
00:16:45.880 If you go
00:16:46.320 out around
00:16:47.260 and, you
00:16:48.080 know, if
00:16:49.120 you're just
00:16:49.460 a private
00:16:50.200 individual and
00:16:52.080 you start
00:16:52.400 spreading some
00:16:53.280 vicious rumor
00:16:54.160 about how,
00:16:54.920 you know,
00:16:56.480 Jerry murdered
00:16:57.840 his wife or
00:16:58.820 whatever, that
00:17:00.000 is defamation.
00:17:01.120 That will cause
00:17:01.980 him harm and
00:17:03.080 harm that maybe
00:17:03.840 can't even be
00:17:04.460 quite measured.
00:17:05.600 And if it's
00:17:06.180 malicious, then
00:17:06.960 that's absolutely
00:17:07.800 defamation.
00:17:08.480 But let's
00:17:09.480 just be honest
00:17:10.500 with Alex
00:17:11.060 Jones.
00:17:11.400 It wasn't
00:17:12.220 just about
00:17:13.320 some guy
00:17:14.660 saying this.
00:17:16.640 It was about
00:17:17.580 and just
00:17:18.780 causing distress
00:17:19.660 or maybe causing
00:17:20.660 people to lose
00:17:21.420 friendships or
00:17:22.220 whatever.
00:17:22.560 It was about
00:17:23.800 Alex Jones as
00:17:24.920 this massive
00:17:25.540 political force.
00:17:27.280 Remember, I
00:17:27.800 don't know what
00:17:28.260 his numbers are
00:17:28.860 now, but Alex
00:17:29.660 Jones was
00:17:30.980 easily, when he
00:17:31.880 was on the
00:17:32.240 Genesis Network
00:17:33.100 and all this
00:17:33.520 stuff, he was
00:17:34.100 easily getting
00:17:35.300 higher ratings
00:17:36.980 than Rush
00:17:37.620 Limbaugh
00:17:38.140 through the
00:17:39.660 90s and
00:17:40.160 2000s, which
00:17:42.060 is remarkable.
00:17:44.200 And there
00:17:45.660 was an
00:17:46.780 alternative media.
00:17:47.720 There's been
00:17:48.140 an alternative
00:17:48.760 media for
00:17:50.340 decades.
00:17:51.760 And Alex
00:17:52.240 Jones was
00:17:52.680 really early
00:17:53.540 on putting
00:17:54.820 everything up
00:17:55.540 for free on
00:17:56.100 YouTube.
00:17:57.440 I remember
00:17:58.080 him doing
00:17:58.500 this in
00:17:58.980 2007, seeing
00:18:00.580 some Alex
00:18:01.100 Jones stuff.
00:18:02.980 So it was
00:18:04.000 about Alex
00:18:04.680 Jones at the
00:18:05.480 end of the
00:18:05.780 day, about
00:18:06.620 a toxic
00:18:07.460 right-wing
00:18:08.300 figure.
00:18:09.960 And to
00:18:10.620 make all
00:18:11.300 of this
00:18:11.720 about the
00:18:13.020 civil courts,
00:18:14.980 it's just,
00:18:16.380 I think it
00:18:17.680 does just
00:18:18.320 really bother
00:18:19.180 me.
00:18:19.940 Because it,
00:18:20.900 in a way,
00:18:22.660 allows really
00:18:24.900 marginal,
00:18:25.720 anonymous people
00:18:26.600 to just go
00:18:27.980 and say
00:18:28.420 whatever the
00:18:29.000 hell they
00:18:29.460 want whenever
00:18:30.100 because nothing
00:18:30.780 is going to
00:18:31.160 happen to
00:18:31.560 them.
00:18:32.400 And then it
00:18:33.380 has this
00:18:34.360 kind of
00:18:34.660 Damocletian
00:18:35.460 sword over
00:18:36.500 the head
00:18:37.200 of someone
00:18:37.980 who has
00:18:40.080 a huge
00:18:40.580 audience and
00:18:41.760 has something
00:18:42.520 at stake.
00:18:44.060 And to
00:18:44.920 solve these
00:18:45.700 problems through
00:18:46.480 civil court,
00:18:47.380 I just think
00:18:47.920 is absolutely
00:18:48.760 wrong.
00:18:50.640 And so I
00:18:51.460 would much
00:18:52.020 prefer that
00:18:53.240 we simply
00:18:53.900 have a
00:18:55.860 speech code
00:18:56.740 so that you
00:18:57.960 can follow
00:18:58.680 it and
00:19:00.360 operate
00:19:01.860 underneath
00:19:02.680 that.
00:19:04.180 And if
00:19:05.300 you break
00:19:05.880 the code,
00:19:07.240 the government
00:19:08.080 ultimately is
00:19:09.200 going to
00:19:10.100 punish you
00:19:11.300 at much
00:19:12.340 lower rates
00:19:14.020 than the
00:19:14.820 civil courts
00:19:15.540 will.
00:19:16.220 The idea
00:19:16.880 of the
00:19:17.320 government
00:19:17.720 funding
00:19:18.200 someone,
00:19:19.280 or excuse
00:19:19.780 me,
00:19:20.020 finding someone
00:19:20.660 a billion
00:19:21.280 dollars is
00:19:22.700 absurd.
00:19:23.540 Now,
00:19:24.240 I'm saying
00:19:25.200 just for
00:19:25.660 speech,
00:19:26.140 obviously if
00:19:26.740 you're engaged
00:19:27.220 in fraud
00:19:28.060 or whatever,
00:19:29.360 I can
00:19:29.940 definitely
00:19:30.200 see a
00:19:30.720 fine of
00:19:31.180 a billion
00:19:31.520 dollars
00:19:32.080 happening.
00:19:34.220 But it
00:19:35.180 just wouldn't
00:19:35.840 things be
00:19:36.420 better if
00:19:37.120 things were
00:19:37.500 just clearer
00:19:38.640 is all I'm
00:19:40.440 saying.
00:19:40.880 And we
00:19:41.080 didn't have
00:19:41.520 this kind
00:19:41.900 of pretense
00:19:42.800 of like
00:19:43.320 freedom,
00:19:44.180 you can say
00:19:44.720 whatever you
00:19:45.220 want.
00:19:46.320 Although,
00:19:47.420 you know,
00:19:47.800 if you get
00:19:48.300 a little
00:19:48.660 too feisty
00:19:50.340 or if you
00:19:51.020 get a little
00:19:51.380 too popular,
00:19:52.620 we're going
00:19:53.560 to figure
00:19:54.080 out a way
00:19:54.880 to sue
00:19:55.980 you in
00:19:56.360 civil court
00:19:57.060 into oblivion.
00:19:58.360 I just
00:19:58.760 think that's
00:19:59.200 actually
00:19:59.680 uncivilized.
00:20:01.880 And part
00:20:02.760 of being
00:20:03.100 civilized is
00:20:04.260 just being,
00:20:05.460 yeah,
00:20:05.720 there are a
00:20:05.980 lot of,
00:20:06.300 part of being
00:20:06.600 civilized is
00:20:07.180 unwritten rules,
00:20:08.680 yes.
00:20:09.300 But part of
00:20:09.780 being civilized
00:20:10.540 is also
00:20:10.840 written rules.
00:20:11.660 They're just
00:20:11.960 simple things
00:20:13.060 that are
00:20:14.080 there.
00:20:15.100 If you,
00:20:16.080 you know,
00:20:17.240 if you're
00:20:17.520 caught guilty
00:20:18.200 of driving
00:20:20.580 too fast,
00:20:21.480 you pay a
00:20:22.040 ticket.
00:20:22.420 It doesn't
00:20:22.780 necessarily even
00:20:23.420 mean you're
00:20:23.900 a bad person
00:20:24.600 and it does
00:20:25.280 discourage you
00:20:26.020 from driving
00:20:26.640 fast the next
00:20:27.320 time.
00:20:27.560 I just
00:20:29.120 think that's
00:20:29.540 a much
00:20:30.120 better way
00:20:31.380 of doing
00:20:31.800 things than
00:20:32.320 the way
00:20:32.780 that we
00:20:33.200 swear we
00:20:33.740 seem to
00:20:34.200 be going,
00:20:35.280 particularly
00:20:35.620 now that the
00:20:36.280 alternative media
00:20:37.020 is larger
00:20:37.480 than the
00:20:37.820 mainstream
00:20:38.120 media.
00:20:39.160 Now,
00:20:40.040 all of
00:20:40.920 that being
00:20:41.540 said,
00:20:42.660 I do
00:20:43.520 have a
00:20:44.540 total lack
00:20:45.540 of sympathy
00:20:46.020 for Alex
00:20:46.780 chokes.
00:20:48.420 And the
00:20:49.900 reason for
00:20:50.620 that is
00:20:51.480 that,
00:20:52.380 like,
00:20:53.800 at his
00:20:54.340 best,
00:20:55.380 he is a
00:20:56.260 slice of
00:20:57.220 Americana
00:20:57.920 and he is
00:20:59.620 funny.
00:21:00.820 He's,
00:21:01.560 you know,
00:21:02.100 has a
00:21:02.660 charisma that's
00:21:03.540 a bit like
00:21:03.960 a car accident.
00:21:05.120 You can't
00:21:05.740 keep your eyes
00:21:06.300 off it.
00:21:07.180 They're tearing
00:21:07.780 your shirt off
00:21:08.620 and acting
00:21:09.680 like a gorilla.
00:21:10.580 It's pretty
00:21:11.180 funny.
00:21:12.080 It's very
00:21:12.780 American.
00:21:13.400 And,
00:21:14.660 you know,
00:21:15.040 there's
00:21:15.300 something about
00:21:16.100 him that I
00:21:16.540 kind of
00:21:17.020 like.
00:21:19.240 But let's
00:21:20.520 also not,
00:21:23.180 you know,
00:21:24.160 get into
00:21:24.880 this mentality
00:21:27.380 that we
00:21:29.260 want to
00:21:30.020 stick up
00:21:30.780 for Alex
00:21:31.340 Jones at
00:21:32.540 every opportunity
00:21:33.380 that he's
00:21:34.040 our guy
00:21:34.940 or, like,
00:21:36.060 if they're
00:21:36.420 going to,
00:21:36.660 you know,
00:21:37.060 if they weren't
00:21:37.560 going after
00:21:38.060 Alex Jones,
00:21:38.800 they'd be
00:21:39.120 going after
00:21:39.660 us or all
00:21:40.500 of those
00:21:40.840 things which
00:21:41.300 are just
00:21:41.560 simply wrong.
00:21:42.440 I mean,
00:21:42.620 Alex Jones
00:21:43.220 is extremely
00:21:44.940 toxic.
00:21:46.620 Alex Jones
00:21:47.220 is part
00:21:48.820 of the
00:21:49.180 alt-light.
00:21:50.100 The alt-light
00:21:50.920 will endlessly
00:21:52.060 defend Alex
00:21:53.180 Jones.
00:21:54.660 And so
00:21:55.100 the alt-light
00:21:55.800 is understood
00:21:56.540 as this
00:21:57.720 massive
00:21:58.980 distraction,
00:22:00.420 massive,
00:22:01.760 I guess,
00:22:03.260 kind of,
00:22:03.580 you could say
00:22:03.920 synthetic
00:22:04.620 opposition
00:22:05.520 to the
00:22:06.900 system.
00:22:07.700 Something that
00:22:08.460 will short
00:22:09.100 circuit any
00:22:10.340 serious
00:22:11.480 dissent.
00:22:12.180 getting rid
00:22:14.100 of these
00:22:14.500 people I
00:22:15.260 think
00:22:15.460 ultimately
00:22:15.980 is a
00:22:16.380 good
00:22:16.520 thing.
00:22:17.640 So from
00:22:18.220 an
00:22:18.440 amoral
00:22:19.360 perspective,
00:22:20.180 I have
00:22:21.660 no sympathy
00:22:22.900 for Alex
00:22:23.940 Jones.
00:22:24.740 From a
00:22:26.100 legal and
00:22:27.580 kind of
00:22:28.160 civilizational
00:22:29.540 perspective,
00:22:30.120 I guess you
00:22:30.580 could say,
00:22:31.460 I actually
00:22:32.300 do think
00:22:33.180 it says
00:22:34.240 something
00:22:34.840 profoundly
00:22:35.820 bad
00:22:36.480 about our
00:22:37.960 society.
00:22:38.700 so there
00:22:41.560 it is.
00:22:42.040 That's my
00:22:42.580 feelings on
00:22:43.260 the matter.
00:22:44.440 If they
00:22:44.580 weren't going
00:22:45.040 after Alex
00:22:45.700 Jones,
00:22:46.080 they might
00:22:46.360 be going
00:22:46.740 after us,
00:22:48.200 like,
00:22:49.580 literally
00:22:50.020 us.
00:22:51.060 Like,
00:22:51.480 these,
00:22:52.400 it's kind
00:22:53.220 of important
00:22:53.720 that these
00:22:55.340 silly people
00:22:56.960 are out
00:22:58.440 there absorbing
00:22:59.580 all the
00:23:00.020 legal attention.
00:23:01.780 I agree.
00:23:02.240 I mean,
00:23:02.260 I didn't
00:23:04.980 even say
00:23:05.640 it that
00:23:05.960 way,
00:23:06.220 but you
00:23:06.440 could say
00:23:06.820 it in
00:23:06.980 that way.
00:23:07.360 It's like
00:23:07.580 better him
00:23:08.240 than us.
00:23:09.460 I mean,
00:23:09.840 obviously,
00:23:10.760 the Charlottesville
00:23:11.780 case was
00:23:13.020 these white
00:23:14.700 shoe law
00:23:15.300 firms and
00:23:16.000 really big
00:23:16.780 guns getting
00:23:18.500 together and
00:23:20.260 blowing their
00:23:22.260 wad on
00:23:23.020 people.
00:23:23.360 And it did
00:23:24.080 become kind
00:23:25.040 of ridiculous
00:23:26.860 at some
00:23:27.580 point where
00:23:28.900 you're dealing
00:23:29.660 with people
00:23:30.180 who have,
00:23:31.000 you know,
00:23:31.680 the idea
00:23:33.540 that they
00:23:33.860 have the
00:23:34.100 assets that
00:23:34.920 can be
00:23:35.420 turned over
00:23:36.480 for however
00:23:37.580 millions they
00:23:38.360 wanted or
00:23:38.840 whatever,
00:23:39.040 it's just
00:23:39.420 ridiculous.
00:23:40.480 You're
00:23:40.920 attacking
00:23:41.520 marginal
00:23:42.360 people.
00:23:43.780 I think
00:23:44.280 actually the
00:23:45.000 lack of
00:23:45.640 attention on
00:23:46.300 the Charlottesville
00:23:46.800 case was
00:23:47.240 interesting.
00:23:47.800 I think
00:23:48.180 Charlottesville
00:23:48.760 was increasingly
00:23:51.540 irrelevant after
00:23:52.860 J6 and
00:23:54.840 so on.
00:23:56.360 I mean,
00:23:56.480 I don't even
00:23:57.020 know if it's
00:23:57.460 worth talking
00:23:58.180 about anymore.
00:23:59.040 But yeah,
00:24:00.140 I mean,
00:24:00.420 at the end
00:24:01.300 of the day,
00:24:02.660 Alex Jones
00:24:03.220 kind of is
00:24:04.020 standing in
00:24:05.360 front of us
00:24:06.120 and it's
00:24:07.820 ultimately fine
00:24:09.040 for him to
00:24:09.580 get knocked
00:24:10.020 off because I
00:24:11.320 don't see a
00:24:12.100 lot of
00:24:12.500 redeeming features
00:24:13.760 to Alex Jones
00:24:14.800 outside of
00:24:16.460 the, you
00:24:17.500 know,
00:24:17.800 slice of
00:24:18.360 Americana or
00:24:19.720 he's hilarious.
00:24:22.240 That's about
00:24:22.960 as far as I
00:24:23.660 could go with
00:24:24.360 praise.
00:24:27.260 That stuff is
00:24:28.640 talks.
00:24:29.160 I mean,
00:24:29.440 when the
00:24:29.760 liberals say
00:24:30.300 Alex Jones
00:24:30.860 is toxic,
00:24:31.960 for God's
00:24:32.580 sake,
00:24:32.840 do you
00:24:33.080 really want
00:24:33.580 to disagree
00:24:33.980 with them?
00:24:34.500 the
00:24:35.500 about
00:24:36.080 the
00:24:36.700 judgment of
00:24:37.900 them.
00:24:38.020 Probably the
00:24:38.260 number of
00:24:38.420 people
00:24:39.260 have
00:24:39.600 well,
00:24:40.320 they're
00:24:40.980 There's a lot of
00:24:42.360 that.