RadixJournal - October 14, 2022


A Slice of Toxic Americana


Episode Stats


Length

24 minutes

Words per minute

130.287

Word count

3,220

Sentence count

182

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

28

sentences flagged

Hate speech

8

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Alexandria Ocasio-cortez is a conservative radio host and podcaster. He is a vocal critic of the Trump regime and has been accused of anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism. Alexandria and I talk about his controversial views on the Trump administration, and whether or not he should be protected by the First Amendment.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.160 Hey guys, how are you doing?
00:00:03.220 Good, how are you this evening?
00:00:05.120 Good.
00:00:06.640 I am doing well.
00:00:09.080 So, we have the
00:00:11.220 situation
00:00:13.160 where my kids
00:00:15.540 are here,
00:00:17.540 they're going to get sleepy soon,
00:00:19.720 and then I will return.
00:00:23.680 Yes, they're making a Halloween house.
00:00:26.420 You know, a gingerbread house?
00:00:27.640 All of that stuff has
00:00:30.340 migrated to Halloween now.
00:00:33.760 Is there a war on Halloween?
00:00:36.640 Have conservatives claimed that?
00:00:39.460 Liberals just hate Halloween?
00:00:42.440 They want to take it away from you?
00:00:44.360 Yeah, there's a war on everything, so.
00:00:50.960 So, I
00:00:52.160 had a few
00:00:54.480 thoughts about
00:00:56.760 some things.
00:00:58.900 Let me grab this
00:01:00.300 book that I was working on.
00:01:04.680 So, is the Alex Jones
00:01:06.540 situation, does that interest you guys?
00:01:10.400 I find the whole thing, well, it's sad,
00:01:12.520 but it's sort of fascinating.
00:01:14.660 Just as a preface,
00:01:16.640 I feel terrible for the parents that lost
00:01:18.620 their children in this
00:01:20.620 horrific act of terror, 0.99
00:01:21.860 and his jerk-off fans 0.99
00:01:24.120 are basically harassing them. 0.99
00:01:25.560 I mean,
00:01:26.540 it just,
00:01:27.540 I just,
00:01:28.480 I just, I have no words,
00:01:30.780 quite frankly.
00:01:31.980 Yeah.
00:01:32.640 I mean, I,
00:01:33.680 I have some ambivalence
00:01:35.320 about the whole situation.
00:01:39.020 It's interesting
00:01:40.140 that
00:01:41.340 all of the conservatives
00:01:43.420 circled the wagons
00:01:44.840 on Alex Jones,
00:01:46.020 and they basically
00:01:48.660 said,
00:01:49.580 you know,
00:01:50.900 they're attacking him
00:01:52.300 because he criticizes
00:01:53.700 the regime,
00:01:54.660 which is a,
00:01:56.160 a common tagline
00:01:57.860 that they've
00:01:58.900 picked up on.
00:02:01.360 It's to kind of,
00:02:02.560 I guess,
00:02:02.820 objectify
00:02:03.780 the government.
00:02:05.500 It's, you know,
00:02:05.980 the regime.
00:02:07.660 Similar to the globalists.
00:02:08.800 Globalists.
00:02:10.080 Air quotes.
00:02:10.480 Exactly.
00:02:10.960 Right?
00:02:11.220 Like,
00:02:11.460 who are,
00:02:12.240 you don't,
00:02:12.740 you don't know exactly
00:02:14.200 what it means.
00:02:16.520 And,
00:02:17.360 and they certainly
00:02:18.940 wouldn't say that
00:02:20.020 with regard to Trump.
00:02:21.020 It would be like,
00:02:21.660 America.
00:02:23.280 I saw another
00:02:24.600 line
00:02:25.720 from Charlie Kirk,
00:02:27.480 which was,
00:02:28.720 which is something
00:02:29.720 that makes
00:02:30.880 absolutely no sense
00:02:32.540 and they always use,
00:02:33.840 which is,
00:02:34.640 if they could do this
00:02:35.840 to Alex Jones,
00:02:37.040 think about
00:02:37.640 what they'll do to you.
00:02:39.860 So it's,
00:02:40.760 it's this,
00:02:42.040 I guess the notion is,
00:02:43.680 if there is a sense to it,
00:02:45.340 that Alex Jones
00:02:47.140 has made,
00:02:48.340 you know,
00:02:48.760 millions off selling people
00:02:50.380 diet plans
00:02:52.100 and,
00:02:52.880 you know,
00:02:54.060 brain,
00:02:55.420 muscle,
00:02:56.220 semen oils
00:02:57.020 and who God knows what.
00:03:00.200 And so he has tons of money
00:03:01.660 and can hire lawyers.
00:03:02.600 So like,
00:03:02.900 imagine what it would be for you
00:03:04.440 who's living paycheck to paycheck
00:03:06.340 and,
00:03:06.740 you know,
00:03:08.220 they would just crush you.
00:03:10.560 Well, 0.88
00:03:11.060 of course,
00:03:11.480 the answer to that
00:03:12.100 is that they're not
00:03:12.780 just going to go after
00:03:14.240 random people
00:03:15.860 on social media.
00:03:17.240 I mean,
00:03:17.380 at the very worst,
00:03:18.440 they're going to take away
00:03:19.500 your Twitter account.
00:03:23.940 You know,
00:03:24.780 whatever you want to say
00:03:25.800 about that.
00:03:26.300 They're not going to just
00:03:26.980 start going after you
00:03:28.540 through the court system.
00:03:30.320 The other thing
00:03:31.420 is that,
00:03:31.840 you know,
00:03:32.200 free speech
00:03:32.920 is truly dead
00:03:33.920 or whatever.
00:03:34.700 Well,
00:03:35.740 free speech
00:03:36.260 has never been
00:03:38.140 an absolute right.
00:03:39.180 And I've done
00:03:40.140 my bit
00:03:41.800 on this
00:03:42.400 a few times
00:03:43.480 of my own
00:03:46.460 ambivalence
00:03:47.220 about the free speech
00:03:48.620 legal notion
00:03:50.620 that has
00:03:51.780 been passed down
00:03:53.200 from Oliver Wendell Holmes,
00:03:55.660 at least
00:03:56.040 the Supreme Court justice.
00:03:57.940 Those ideas
00:03:58.660 weren't exactly his.
00:03:59.980 But I do think
00:04:01.680 there are actually
00:04:02.260 some problems
00:04:03.340 to that
00:04:03.940 notion of free speech.
00:04:07.220 But anyway,
00:04:08.680 the Blackwell,
00:04:09.620 the kind of common law notion
00:04:10.980 is something different.
00:04:12.660 It is about
00:04:13.240 not preemptively
00:04:15.200 taking away
00:04:16.160 your ability
00:04:17.180 to engage in speech.
00:04:19.080 It is not necessarily
00:04:20.520 not punishing you
00:04:22.280 for your actual speech.
00:04:24.980 And that is
00:04:26.400 the original conception.
00:04:28.900 And Oliver Wendell Holmes
00:04:29.860 actually in his dissent
00:04:31.600 on,
00:04:32.420 I guess it was
00:04:32.820 Abrams
00:04:33.400 versus the U.S. 0.81
00:04:34.020 government,
00:04:34.380 I believe,
00:04:35.500 acknowledges this.
00:04:37.880 And he acknowledges
00:04:38.780 that the United States
00:04:39.940 is something new.
00:04:41.060 It's an experiment,
00:04:42.080 a marketplace
00:04:42.660 of ideas.
00:04:44.720 I mean,
00:04:45.180 to his credit,
00:04:45.880 he acknowledged
00:04:46.440 that he was actually
00:04:47.460 putting forth
00:04:48.460 a new conception
00:04:49.780 of law
00:04:51.160 in a dissent
00:04:53.440 to a Supreme Court
00:04:54.760 decision
00:04:55.200 that actually
00:04:56.000 upheld
00:04:56.700 a prosecution
00:04:58.040 of anarchist
00:05:00.260 Bolsheviks 0.94
00:05:01.460 handing out pamphlets
00:05:03.320 in New York City
00:05:04.060 or wherever it was.
00:05:05.480 But, you know,
00:05:06.280 notions of defamation
00:05:08.260 have never
00:05:10.040 been protected speech.
00:05:12.620 Obviously,
00:05:13.160 you cannot use speech
00:05:14.720 to break the law.
00:05:17.020 You can't use speech
00:05:18.720 to buy and sell drugs,
00:05:20.480 say,
00:05:21.160 and say,
00:05:21.580 oh,
00:05:21.740 this is my freedom,
00:05:22.920 you know,
00:05:23.060 my First Amendment right
00:05:24.220 that you're
00:05:25.220 jailing me for.
00:05:27.160 And things like
00:05:28.380 defamation
00:05:28.940 have been out there.
00:05:29.700 Now,
00:05:29.820 defamation is
00:05:30.600 much more
00:05:31.400 strict
00:05:32.520 in the UK,
00:05:34.180 famously,
00:05:35.400 but it does
00:05:37.100 occur here.
00:05:38.540 And the way
00:05:40.180 it's,
00:05:42.180 you know,
00:05:42.420 things like libel
00:05:43.440 and these kinds
00:05:44.400 of notions,
00:05:45.500 the way they're understood
00:05:46.280 is reckless
00:05:47.440 disregard for the truth
00:05:48.960 or some kind
00:05:49.800 of malice.
00:05:51.440 So,
00:05:51.960 in effect,
00:05:52.640 you have the right
00:05:53.840 to be wrong,
00:05:55.400 obviously.
00:05:56.840 So,
00:05:57.140 you know,
00:05:57.400 you're not,
00:05:58.580 you can,
00:06:00.240 I don't know,
00:06:01.260 if someone is murdered,
00:06:02.380 you could speculate
00:06:03.320 that about that online.
00:06:04.780 Oh,
00:06:04.900 I think it was
00:06:05.780 his business partner.
00:06:09.580 And if you aren't,
00:06:11.440 you know,
00:06:12.400 maliciously trying
00:06:13.840 to demean
00:06:15.160 this person,
00:06:16.220 that is,
00:06:17.140 I would imagine,
00:06:18.080 covered by free speech.
00:06:19.640 but just
00:06:21.480 maliciously
00:06:22.840 disregarding
00:06:24.760 the truth
00:06:25.440 and claiming
00:06:26.200 that,
00:06:26.780 you know,
00:06:28.100 Jim Bob
00:06:28.840 Womack,
00:06:29.960 he actually,
00:06:30.940 he murdered
00:06:32.540 his wife 0.93
00:06:33.640 or whatever.
00:06:34.560 If you're doing
00:06:35.160 that without
00:06:35.680 any evidence
00:06:36.500 or any semblance
00:06:37.780 of reason,
00:06:38.380 then you are
00:06:39.060 defaming him
00:06:40.340 maliciously,
00:06:41.100 particularly if you
00:06:41.620 have a motive
00:06:42.260 to do it.
00:06:43.540 I guess Alex Jones'
00:06:44.840 motive was
00:06:45.740 to
00:06:46.180 just,
00:06:49.000 you know,
00:06:49.440 isolate a target
00:06:50.880 and then get his fans
00:06:53.000 whipped up
00:06:53.600 into a frenzy
00:06:54.500 and
00:06:54.920 profit off that,
00:06:57.880 just create
00:06:58.480 a kind of team
00:06:59.700 that is,
00:07:01.620 you know,
00:07:02.060 on to the truth
00:07:03.220 and things like this.
00:07:05.500 I can see it
00:07:07.000 and
00:07:07.880 I can see
00:07:10.060 how Alex Jones
00:07:11.280 did absolutely
00:07:12.400 engage
00:07:13.200 in
00:07:13.720 defamation
00:07:15.140 and,
00:07:16.260 you know,
00:07:17.700 a billion dollars,
00:07:19.180 that seems a bit much,
00:07:20.300 but,
00:07:20.600 you know,
00:07:20.860 there's no doubt
00:07:21.760 if you put yourself
00:07:22.600 in the shoes
00:07:23.160 of these people,
00:07:24.420 you're,
00:07:24.860 this unspeakable
00:07:26.680 crime has occurred
00:07:27.880 that affects you
00:07:29.540 personally
00:07:30.160 and then you have
00:07:31.240 some 0.97
00:07:32.140 blowhard 0.90
00:07:33.440 online
00:07:34.340 saying that
00:07:35.740 you and
00:07:36.660 George Soros
00:07:37.780 were engaging
00:07:39.020 in some elaborate
00:07:40.080 scheme
00:07:40.640 to take away
00:07:41.280 gun rights.
00:07:42.320 I mean,
00:07:42.760 I can
00:07:43.320 totally understand
00:07:44.800 that that would
00:07:45.480 have caused
00:07:46.520 hurt,
00:07:47.280 heartache,
00:07:47.960 sleepless nights,
00:07:49.960 depression,
00:07:51.480 outrage,
00:07:52.260 et cetera.
00:07:53.100 So,
00:07:54.480 I get it.
00:07:56.780 And I think
00:07:57.900 with Alex Jones,
00:07:59.200 it's hard to defend
00:08:00.820 him in this instance.
00:08:02.400 But,
00:08:02.840 I don't think
00:08:04.240 the conservatives
00:08:05.160 are completely
00:08:06.340 wrong
00:08:07.260 when they
00:08:08.820 suggest that
00:08:09.880 they're going
00:08:10.680 after him
00:08:11.600 because he
00:08:12.620 is the
00:08:13.120 grand
00:08:13.700 poobah
00:08:14.360 of
00:08:15.220 conspiracy
00:08:15.960 theories.
00:08:17.160 And even
00:08:17.700 though this
00:08:18.100 started
00:08:18.520 before Trump,
00:08:20.380 there,
00:08:20.660 you know,
00:08:21.000 that's kind
00:08:21.800 of thrown
00:08:22.440 into the mix.
00:08:24.600 And it
00:08:25.700 does become
00:08:26.820 a kind of
00:08:27.560 political
00:08:28.100 and culture
00:08:28.860 war.
00:08:29.320 And I think
00:08:29.780 that's true.
00:08:31.040 It does
00:08:31.740 have the
00:08:32.660 feel of that,
00:08:33.880 even if,
00:08:34.540 like,
00:08:34.680 the technical,
00:08:35.600 legal
00:08:35.980 qualities of
00:08:37.880 this are
00:08:38.720 something else.
00:08:39.660 Now,
00:08:40.380 obviously,
00:08:40.920 Alex Jones
00:08:41.580 does himself
00:08:42.260 no favors.
00:08:43.160 He has
00:08:44.140 apologized,
00:08:45.220 I guess,
00:08:45.840 but then
00:08:46.280 he'll
00:08:47.180 unapologize
00:08:48.360 in some way
00:08:49.100 and he'll
00:08:50.220 attack
00:08:51.120 the judge.
00:08:52.320 I mean,
00:08:52.580 he's,
00:08:53.740 it seems
00:08:54.980 like he's
00:08:55.760 suicidal
00:08:56.420 or he's
00:08:57.320 just
00:08:57.640 making it
00:08:59.280 worse
00:08:59.840 and playing
00:09:01.620 up the fact
00:09:02.180 that he's a
00:09:02.620 victim when,
00:09:03.520 in fact,
00:09:04.280 this is an
00:09:04.940 actual law.
00:09:06.520 This is not
00:09:07.420 some,
00:09:09.260 you know,
00:09:09.480 again,
00:09:10.040 I'm not
00:09:10.880 denying the
00:09:11.540 political
00:09:11.940 quality to
00:09:12.680 all this,
00:09:13.120 but it
00:09:13.980 is a
00:09:14.320 law in
00:09:14.640 the book,
00:09:15.040 so you
00:09:15.960 got to
00:09:16.220 get real
00:09:16.660 here.
00:09:17.900 But yes,
00:09:19.380 it is a
00:09:19.880 culture war
00:09:20.440 as well.
00:09:22.180 But I
00:09:22.760 guess what
00:09:23.680 I was
00:09:24.200 thinking
00:09:24.700 about this
00:09:25.780 is that,
00:09:27.380 you know,
00:09:29.160 we have
00:09:29.860 these,
00:09:30.360 and this
00:09:30.700 is something
00:09:31.480 that certainly
00:09:32.220 affects me
00:09:33.220 personally as
00:09:34.720 well.
00:09:35.320 It reminds
00:09:36.480 me of the
00:09:37.020 Charlottesville
00:09:37.800 case.
00:09:38.980 I was
00:09:40.880 never
00:09:41.480 arrested
00:09:42.340 during
00:09:43.920 Charlottesville.
00:09:45.540 I might
00:09:46.860 have,
00:09:47.540 I don't
00:09:48.180 know,
00:09:48.540 preferred to
00:09:49.300 have been
00:09:49.720 arrested on
00:09:50.680 some level
00:09:51.480 because it
00:09:52.940 would have
00:09:53.340 taken me
00:09:54.860 out of that
00:09:55.600 situation
00:09:56.300 safely
00:09:58.180 and not,
00:10:01.100 you know,
00:10:01.420 I actually
00:10:02.080 did escape
00:10:03.320 Charlottesville
00:10:04.240 in rather
00:10:06.280 dangerous
00:10:06.860 circumstances.
00:10:08.000 But putting
00:10:08.880 that aside,
00:10:10.620 the way
00:10:11.440 that people
00:10:12.740 tried to
00:10:13.800 prevent
00:10:14.480 another
00:10:15.020 Charlottesville
00:10:15.780 was to
00:10:16.920 create this
00:10:17.800 massive
00:10:18.580 burden
00:10:19.260 that a
00:10:21.160 Damocletian
00:10:21.860 sword that
00:10:22.560 hangs over
00:10:23.160 everyone's
00:10:23.580 head,
00:10:23.960 which is
00:10:24.260 that we
00:10:24.940 are going
00:10:25.280 to sue
00:10:25.860 you in
00:10:26.400 civil
00:10:26.820 court for
00:10:27.960 something.
00:10:28.660 And we've
00:10:30.220 got the
00:10:30.680 big gun
00:10:31.240 lawyers, 1.00
00:10:32.320 you idiots 1.00
00:10:32.940 are going 1.00
00:10:33.240 to be,
00:10:33.680 you know,
00:10:34.660 impoverished,
00:10:35.460 you're going
00:10:35.760 pro se,
00:10:36.660 and we're
00:10:37.020 just going
00:10:37.360 to crush 1.00
00:10:37.940 you. 0.99
00:10:38.200 It is
00:10:38.960 this civil,
00:10:40.780 I mean,
00:10:40.980 again,
00:10:41.360 this is
00:10:41.620 what Alex
00:10:42.880 Jones went
00:10:43.660 through,
00:10:44.020 what I've
00:10:44.440 gone through,
00:10:45.300 it's civil
00:10:45.860 matter,
00:10:46.320 it's not a
00:10:46.660 criminal
00:10:46.960 matter.
00:10:47.900 I was
00:10:48.280 never
00:10:48.500 arrested,
00:10:49.400 I was
00:10:49.780 surprisingly
00:10:50.840 never
00:10:52.760 investigated
00:10:54.800 or asked,
00:10:56.780 I think I
00:10:57.120 was asked
00:10:57.540 to participate
00:10:58.140 in the
00:10:58.560 Heapy
00:10:58.820 report and
00:10:59.460 I declined.
00:11:00.240 I actually
00:11:00.680 kind of
00:11:01.080 regret doing
00:11:01.680 that.
00:11:02.060 I would
00:11:03.020 have preferred
00:11:03.500 to have
00:11:04.100 participated
00:11:04.700 actually,
00:11:05.680 because the
00:11:06.060 Heapy
00:11:06.280 report was
00:11:07.100 very good
00:11:08.320 and very
00:11:08.680 serious,
00:11:09.340 but I
00:11:09.740 also wasn't
00:11:10.440 subpoenaed,
00:11:11.120 and he,
00:11:12.020 I don't know
00:11:12.640 if he could
00:11:12.940 have done
00:11:13.180 that or
00:11:13.460 not,
00:11:13.760 maybe he
00:11:14.320 could have.
00:11:15.480 I actually
00:11:16.260 regret not
00:11:17.580 collaborating,
00:11:18.940 but,
00:11:19.460 you know,
00:11:21.140 when you go
00:11:21.600 and talk
00:11:22.180 about a
00:11:22.540 situation,
00:11:23.220 you are
00:11:23.520 kind of
00:11:23.880 putting
00:11:24.400 yourself
00:11:24.840 in jeopardy.
00:11:25.560 Anyway,
00:11:26.160 that's neither
00:11:26.620 here nor
00:11:26.940 there.
00:11:28.160 Heapy report
00:11:28.860 was good
00:11:29.300 without me,
00:11:29.880 and it
00:11:30.080 didn't
00:11:30.540 involve me.
00:11:32.300 But what
00:11:33.220 I'm saying
00:11:33.740 is this
00:11:34.140 use of
00:11:35.660 the civil
00:11:37.360 court system
00:11:38.740 in order
00:11:39.620 for people
00:11:41.260 to pursue
00:11:42.020 things that
00:11:42.920 are ultimately
00:11:43.600 political.
00:11:44.340 Obviously,
00:11:45.380 the Charlottesville
00:11:46.020 case was
00:11:46.580 outrageous
00:11:47.340 and completely
00:11:49.420 political or
00:11:50.280 ideological or
00:11:51.300 personal,
00:11:51.920 however you
00:11:52.240 want to
00:11:52.420 describe it.
00:11:53.380 This one,
00:11:54.100 a little bit
00:11:54.480 less so with
00:11:55.160 Alex.
00:11:55.380 I'm having,
00:11:56.180 I'm kind of
00:11:56.720 struggling here
00:11:57.800 to defend
00:11:58.400 him,
00:11:58.780 as you can
00:11:59.620 tell.
00:12:00.140 But there
00:12:00.840 are just
00:12:01.440 serious
00:12:02.000 problems
00:12:02.880 to the
00:12:04.340 use of
00:12:05.000 the civil
00:12:05.380 courts
00:12:05.880 like this
00:12:06.820 for
00:12:08.040 political
00:12:09.060 ends.
00:12:10.520 And on
00:12:10.940 some level,
00:12:11.940 I would
00:12:12.600 just
00:12:13.100 appreciate
00:12:14.100 an actual
00:12:15.440 speech code.
00:12:17.420 And I've
00:12:18.500 made this
00:12:18.920 argument about
00:12:19.880 Twitter and
00:12:20.580 social media,
00:12:21.400 which is that
00:12:22.060 why don't
00:12:23.080 they just
00:12:23.860 literally
00:12:24.820 tell us
00:12:25.900 what we
00:12:26.680 can say
00:12:27.380 and what
00:12:27.840 we cannot
00:12:28.300 say?
00:12:30.300 Wouldn't
00:12:30.860 that just
00:12:31.440 simply be
00:12:32.200 better?
00:12:32.420 And you
00:12:32.740 do see a
00:12:33.320 little degree
00:12:33.980 of that.
00:12:34.580 I think
00:12:35.180 on Twitch,
00:12:36.800 you kind
00:12:37.360 of can't
00:12:38.000 use any
00:12:39.100 ethnic
00:12:41.460 slander,
00:12:42.740 but whatever.
00:12:43.620 So I
00:12:43.900 think,
00:12:44.440 you know,
00:12:44.860 like Hassan 0.95
00:12:45.520 got suspended
00:12:47.080 for a week
00:12:47.940 for using
00:12:48.460 cracker,
00:12:49.400 and I
00:12:49.800 think he
00:12:50.200 used it
00:12:50.780 in a
00:12:51.280 circumstance
00:12:52.420 that I
00:12:52.880 don't think
00:12:53.200 would really
00:12:53.620 offend
00:12:54.120 anyone.
00:12:54.920 But they
00:12:55.760 stuck to
00:12:56.780 their,
00:12:58.160 you know,
00:12:58.380 the letter
00:12:58.720 of the law,
00:13:00.000 the letter
00:13:00.400 of the TOS,
00:13:01.180 and I
00:13:01.380 actually appreciate
00:13:02.240 that in a
00:13:03.740 way, not
00:13:04.060 just because
00:13:04.520 Hassan is 0.99
00:13:05.200 horrible, 0.99
00:13:05.740 but because
00:13:06.840 I would
00:13:07.980 prefer just
00:13:09.320 explicit
00:13:10.220 codes.
00:13:12.080 And as
00:13:12.980 opposed to
00:13:13.560 the idea
00:13:14.100 that you're
00:13:14.540 going to
00:13:14.920 sue someone
00:13:15.740 into oblivion,
00:13:17.020 the civil
00:13:17.540 court wasn't
00:13:18.360 meant to
00:13:19.500 be used
00:13:20.300 in this
00:13:20.640 way.
00:13:21.620 And there's
00:13:22.620 an interesting
00:13:23.380 case,
00:13:24.800 let me find
00:13:25.840 it here,
00:13:26.820 that actually
00:13:27.920 picks this
00:13:29.180 up.
00:13:29.480 So this
00:13:30.460 is New
00:13:32.080 York Times
00:13:32.840 versus
00:13:33.220 Sullivan.
00:13:35.140 What a
00:13:35.580 state may
00:13:36.140 not
00:13:36.460 constitutionally
00:13:37.980 bring about
00:13:38.640 by means
00:13:39.120 of criminal
00:13:39.780 statute is
00:13:40.600 likewise
00:13:40.920 beyond the
00:13:41.800 reach of
00:13:42.300 its civil
00:13:42.900 law of
00:13:43.540 libel.
00:13:45.200 The fear
00:13:45.800 of damage
00:13:46.560 awards under
00:13:47.720 a rule such
00:13:48.740 as that
00:13:49.140 invoked by
00:13:49.860 the Alabama
00:13:50.480 courts,
00:13:51.000 this is when
00:13:51.580 Alabama was 0.94
00:13:52.700 prosecuting
00:13:53.280 the New
00:13:53.420 York Times,
00:13:53.820 by the
00:13:54.820 Alabama
00:13:55.360 courts here
00:13:56.480 may be
00:13:57.020 markedly
00:13:57.760 more
00:13:58.120 inhibiting
00:13:58.800 than the
00:13:59.820 fear of
00:14:00.480 prosecution
00:14:01.100 under a
00:14:01.820 criminal
00:14:02.140 statute.
00:14:02.980 The
00:14:03.220 judgment
00:14:03.840 awarded in
00:14:05.440 this case
00:14:05.940 without the
00:14:06.420 need for
00:14:06.800 any proof
00:14:07.480 of actual
00:14:08.560 pecuniary
00:14:09.200 loss was
00:14:10.440 1,000 times
00:14:11.740 greater than
00:14:12.340 the maximum
00:14:13.000 fine provided
00:14:14.140 by the
00:14:14.580 Alabama
00:14:15.100 statute for
00:14:15.880 criminal
00:14:16.200 libel,
00:14:16.900 and 100
00:14:17.580 times greater
00:14:18.380 than that
00:14:19.800 provided by
00:14:20.420 the Sedition
00:14:21.180 Act.
00:14:22.680 And so
00:14:23.200 this took
00:14:23.860 place,
00:14:24.680 this case,
00:14:26.740 which actually
00:14:27.400 came about
00:14:27.800 in the midst
00:14:28.140 of the
00:14:28.360 civil rights
00:14:28.900 struggle,
00:14:29.240 it was
00:14:29.280 1964.
00:14:30.740 What it's
00:14:31.360 saying is
00:14:32.280 that let's
00:14:33.740 say you
00:14:34.580 had actual
00:14:35.660 speech codes,
00:14:37.460 and so
00:14:38.000 there was a
00:14:40.340 criminal code
00:14:41.600 on the
00:14:42.140 books.
00:14:43.260 They're not
00:14:43.740 going to
00:14:44.780 like,
00:14:46.860 there's no
00:14:47.540 fine that's
00:14:48.440 going to be
00:14:48.780 a billion
00:14:49.400 dollars for
00:14:50.360 something like
00:14:50.860 this.
00:14:51.240 and wouldn't
00:14:53.640 you rather
00:14:54.320 in a way
00:14:55.180 pay a
00:14:56.260 thousand
00:14:56.700 dollars and
00:14:57.760 go to
00:14:58.320 jail for
00:14:59.040 a month
00:14:59.480 than be
00:15:01.280 on the
00:15:01.720 hook for
00:15:02.240 a billion
00:15:02.980 or these
00:15:04.020 sums that
00:15:04.980 are just
00:15:05.340 kind of
00:15:06.280 ultimately
00:15:06.900 pulled out
00:15:07.560 of thin
00:15:07.920 air and
00:15:08.580 that are
00:15:09.120 constitutionally
00:15:10.560 controlled,
00:15:11.440 but are
00:15:12.640 ultimately
00:15:13.000 awarded by
00:15:13.860 juries.
00:15:15.140 That is 1.00
00:15:15.860 morons. 1.00
00:15:16.680 And it's 1.00
00:15:19.260 like, we
00:15:19.840 want to
00:15:20.540 avoid, we're
00:15:21.800 so afraid
00:15:22.960 due to our
00:15:23.660 obsession with
00:15:24.460 free speech
00:15:25.220 that no one
00:15:26.680 supports actual
00:15:28.360 speech codes,
00:15:29.300 just saying
00:15:30.160 outright, you
00:15:31.600 can't say
00:15:32.680 this, you
00:15:33.240 can't quite,
00:15:34.340 you cannot
00:15:35.020 revise the
00:15:36.020 Holocaust, for 1.00
00:15:36.920 instance.
00:15:38.300 You can't
00:15:39.820 just directly
00:15:41.220 engage in
00:15:43.300 a discussion
00:15:44.440 of this
00:15:46.020 or that.
00:15:46.640 We're so
00:15:47.200 deathly
00:15:47.860 afraid and
00:15:48.500 we pat
00:15:48.980 ourselves on
00:15:49.640 the back
00:15:50.220 for the
00:15:51.060 fact that
00:15:51.840 you're free
00:15:53.220 in the
00:15:53.520 country.
00:15:54.040 I would
00:15:54.460 defend your
00:15:55.140 right to
00:15:55.800 talk about
00:15:56.840 the Holocaust 0.82
00:15:57.420 or race
00:15:58.340 or moon
00:16:00.020 landing or
00:16:00.740 whatever.
00:16:01.440 I would
00:16:01.680 defend your
00:16:02.400 right even
00:16:02.840 though you're
00:16:03.200 dead wrong.
00:16:04.800 How amazing
00:16:05.860 we are.
00:16:08.720 Now, if
00:16:09.720 you're just
00:16:10.220 revising the
00:16:12.880 moon landing,
00:16:13.900 I doubt
00:16:14.240 anyone's going
00:16:14.860 to sue
00:16:15.360 you, although
00:16:15.860 I guess
00:16:16.240 they could
00:16:16.900 on some
00:16:17.300 weird level
00:16:18.180 of emotional
00:16:19.160 distress due
00:16:20.680 to this.
00:16:21.920 But it
00:16:22.840 does create
00:16:23.880 this very
00:16:25.320 strange
00:16:26.080 atmosphere
00:16:26.760 where
00:16:27.940 marginal
00:16:32.060 or extreme
00:16:34.220 or unpopular
00:16:35.920 political opinion
00:16:37.020 is in a
00:16:38.460 way litigated
00:16:39.740 through the
00:16:40.640 civil courts.
00:16:41.640 So, again,
00:16:43.520 this defamation
00:16:44.560 is a real
00:16:45.360 thing.
00:16:45.880 If you go
00:16:46.320 out around
00:16:47.260 and, you
00:16:48.080 know, if
00:16:49.120 you're just
00:16:49.460 a private
00:16:50.200 individual and
00:16:52.080 you start
00:16:52.400 spreading some
00:16:53.280 vicious rumor
00:16:54.160 about how,
00:16:54.920 you know,
00:16:56.480 Jerry murdered
00:16:57.840 his wife or
00:16:58.820 whatever, that
00:17:00.000 is defamation.
00:17:01.120 That will cause 0.92
00:17:01.980 him harm and
00:17:03.080 harm that maybe
00:17:03.840 can't even be
00:17:04.460 quite measured.
00:17:05.600 And if it's
00:17:06.180 malicious, then
00:17:06.960 that's absolutely
00:17:07.800 defamation.
00:17:08.480 But let's
00:17:09.480 just be honest
00:17:10.500 with Alex
00:17:11.060 Jones.
00:17:11.400 It wasn't
00:17:12.220 just about
00:17:13.320 some guy
00:17:14.660 saying this.
00:17:16.640 It was about
00:17:17.580 and just
00:17:18.780 causing distress
00:17:19.660 or maybe causing
00:17:20.660 people to lose
00:17:21.420 friendships or
00:17:22.220 whatever.
00:17:22.560 It was about
00:17:23.800 Alex Jones as
00:17:24.920 this massive
00:17:25.540 political force.
00:17:27.280 Remember, I
00:17:27.800 don't know what
00:17:28.260 his numbers are
00:17:28.860 now, but Alex
00:17:29.660 Jones was
00:17:30.980 easily, when he
00:17:31.880 was on the
00:17:32.240 Genesis Network
00:17:33.100 and all this
00:17:33.520 stuff, he was
00:17:34.100 easily getting
00:17:35.300 higher ratings
00:17:36.980 than Rush
00:17:37.620 Limbaugh
00:17:38.140 through the
00:17:39.660 90s and
00:17:40.160 2000s, which
00:17:42.060 is remarkable.
00:17:44.200 And there
00:17:45.660 was an
00:17:46.780 alternative media.
00:17:47.720 There's been
00:17:48.140 an alternative
00:17:48.760 media for
00:17:50.340 decades.
00:17:51.760 And Alex
00:17:52.240 Jones was
00:17:52.680 really early
00:17:53.540 on putting
00:17:54.820 everything up
00:17:55.540 for free on
00:17:56.100 YouTube.
00:17:57.440 I remember
00:17:58.080 him doing
00:17:58.500 this in
00:17:58.980 2007, seeing
00:18:00.580 some Alex
00:18:01.100 Jones stuff.
00:18:02.980 So it was
00:18:04.000 about Alex
00:18:04.680 Jones at the
00:18:05.480 end of the
00:18:05.780 day, about
00:18:06.620 a toxic
00:18:07.460 right-wing
00:18:08.300 figure.
00:18:09.960 And to
00:18:10.620 make all
00:18:11.300 of this
00:18:11.720 about the
00:18:13.020 civil courts,
00:18:14.980 it's just,
00:18:16.380 I think it
00:18:17.680 does just
00:18:18.320 really bother
00:18:19.180 me.
00:18:19.940 Because it,
00:18:20.900 in a way,
00:18:22.660 allows really
00:18:24.900 marginal,
00:18:25.720 anonymous people
00:18:26.600 to just go
00:18:27.980 and say
00:18:28.420 whatever the
00:18:29.000 hell they
00:18:29.460 want whenever
00:18:30.100 because nothing
00:18:30.780 is going to
00:18:31.160 happen to
00:18:31.560 them.
00:18:32.400 And then it
00:18:33.380 has this
00:18:34.360 kind of
00:18:34.660 Damocletian
00:18:35.460 sword over
00:18:36.500 the head
00:18:37.200 of someone
00:18:37.980 who has
00:18:40.080 a huge
00:18:40.580 audience and
00:18:41.760 has something
00:18:42.520 at stake.
00:18:44.060 And to
00:18:44.920 solve these
00:18:45.700 problems through
00:18:46.480 civil court,
00:18:47.380 I just think
00:18:47.920 is absolutely
00:18:48.760 wrong.
00:18:50.640 And so I
00:18:51.460 would much
00:18:52.020 prefer that
00:18:53.240 we simply
00:18:53.900 have a
00:18:55.860 speech code
00:18:56.740 so that you
00:18:57.960 can follow
00:18:58.680 it and
00:19:00.360 operate
00:19:01.860 underneath
00:19:02.680 that.
00:19:04.180 And if
00:19:05.300 you break
00:19:05.880 the code,
00:19:07.240 the government
00:19:08.080 ultimately is
00:19:09.200 going to
00:19:10.100 punish you
00:19:11.300 at much
00:19:12.340 lower rates
00:19:14.020 than the
00:19:14.820 civil courts
00:19:15.540 will.
00:19:16.220 The idea
00:19:16.880 of the
00:19:17.320 government
00:19:17.720 funding
00:19:18.200 someone,
00:19:19.280 or excuse
00:19:19.780 me,
00:19:20.020 finding someone
00:19:20.660 a billion
00:19:21.280 dollars is
00:19:22.700 absurd.
00:19:23.540 Now,
00:19:24.240 I'm saying
00:19:25.200 just for
00:19:25.660 speech,
00:19:26.140 obviously if
00:19:26.740 you're engaged
00:19:27.220 in fraud
00:19:28.060 or whatever,
00:19:29.360 I can
00:19:29.940 definitely
00:19:30.200 see a
00:19:30.720 fine of
00:19:31.180 a billion
00:19:31.520 dollars
00:19:32.080 happening.
00:19:34.220 But it
00:19:35.180 just wouldn't
00:19:35.840 things be
00:19:36.420 better if
00:19:37.120 things were
00:19:37.500 just clearer
00:19:38.640 is all I'm
00:19:40.440 saying.
00:19:40.880 And we
00:19:41.080 didn't have
00:19:41.520 this kind
00:19:41.900 of pretense
00:19:42.800 of like
00:19:43.320 freedom,
00:19:44.180 you can say
00:19:44.720 whatever you
00:19:45.220 want.
00:19:46.320 Although,
00:19:47.420 you know,
00:19:47.800 if you get
00:19:48.300 a little
00:19:48.660 too feisty
00:19:50.340 or if you
00:19:51.020 get a little
00:19:51.380 too popular,
00:19:52.620 we're going
00:19:53.560 to figure
00:19:54.080 out a way
00:19:54.880 to sue
00:19:55.980 you in
00:19:56.360 civil court
00:19:57.060 into oblivion.
00:19:58.360 I just
00:19:58.760 think that's
00:19:59.200 actually
00:19:59.680 uncivilized.
00:20:01.880 And part
00:20:02.760 of being
00:20:03.100 civilized is
00:20:04.260 just being,
00:20:05.460 yeah,
00:20:05.720 there are a
00:20:05.980 lot of,
00:20:06.300 part of being
00:20:06.600 civilized is
00:20:07.180 unwritten rules,
00:20:08.680 yes.
00:20:09.300 But part of
00:20:09.780 being civilized
00:20:10.540 is also
00:20:10.840 written rules.
00:20:11.660 They're just
00:20:11.960 simple things
00:20:13.060 that are
00:20:14.080 there.
00:20:15.100 If you,
00:20:16.080 you know,
00:20:17.240 if you're
00:20:17.520 caught guilty
00:20:18.200 of driving
00:20:20.580 too fast,
00:20:21.480 you pay a
00:20:22.040 ticket.
00:20:22.420 It doesn't
00:20:22.780 necessarily even
00:20:23.420 mean you're
00:20:23.900 a bad person
00:20:24.600 and it does
00:20:25.280 discourage you
00:20:26.020 from driving
00:20:26.640 fast the next
00:20:27.320 time.
00:20:27.560 I just
00:20:29.120 think that's
00:20:29.540 a much
00:20:30.120 better way
00:20:31.380 of doing
00:20:31.800 things than
00:20:32.320 the way
00:20:32.780 that we
00:20:33.200 swear we
00:20:33.740 seem to
00:20:34.200 be going,
00:20:35.280 particularly
00:20:35.620 now that the
00:20:36.280 alternative media
00:20:37.020 is larger
00:20:37.480 than the
00:20:37.820 mainstream
00:20:38.120 media.
00:20:39.160 Now,
00:20:40.040 all of
00:20:40.920 that being
00:20:41.540 said,
00:20:42.660 I do
00:20:43.520 have a
00:20:44.540 total lack
00:20:45.540 of sympathy
00:20:46.020 for Alex
00:20:46.780 chokes.
00:20:48.420 And the
00:20:49.900 reason for
00:20:50.620 that is
00:20:51.480 that,
00:20:52.380 like,
00:20:53.800 at his
00:20:54.340 best,
00:20:55.380 he is a
00:20:56.260 slice of
00:20:57.220 Americana
00:20:57.920 and he is
00:20:59.620 funny.
00:21:00.820 He's,
00:21:01.560 you know,
00:21:02.100 has a
00:21:02.660 charisma that's
00:21:03.540 a bit like
00:21:03.960 a car accident.
00:21:05.120 You can't
00:21:05.740 keep your eyes
00:21:06.300 off it.
00:21:07.180 They're tearing
00:21:07.780 your shirt off
00:21:08.620 and acting
00:21:09.680 like a gorilla.
00:21:10.580 It's pretty
00:21:11.180 funny.
00:21:12.080 It's very
00:21:12.780 American.
00:21:13.400 And,
00:21:14.660 you know,
00:21:15.040 there's
00:21:15.300 something about
00:21:16.100 him that I
00:21:16.540 kind of
00:21:17.020 like.
00:21:19.240 But let's
00:21:20.520 also not,
00:21:23.180 you know,
00:21:24.160 get into
00:21:24.880 this mentality
00:21:27.380 that we
00:21:29.260 want to
00:21:30.020 stick up
00:21:30.780 for Alex
00:21:31.340 Jones at
00:21:32.540 every opportunity
00:21:33.380 that he's
00:21:34.040 our guy
00:21:34.940 or, like,
00:21:36.060 if they're
00:21:36.420 going to,
00:21:36.660 you know,
00:21:37.060 if they weren't
00:21:37.560 going after
00:21:38.060 Alex Jones,
00:21:38.800 they'd be
00:21:39.120 going after
00:21:39.660 us or all
00:21:40.500 of those
00:21:40.840 things which
00:21:41.300 are just
00:21:41.560 simply wrong.
00:21:42.440 I mean,
00:21:42.620 Alex Jones
00:21:43.220 is extremely 0.99
00:21:44.940 toxic.
00:21:46.620 Alex Jones
00:21:47.220 is part
00:21:48.820 of the
00:21:49.180 alt-light.
00:21:50.100 The alt-light
00:21:50.920 will endlessly
00:21:52.060 defend Alex
00:21:53.180 Jones.
00:21:54.660 And so
00:21:55.100 the alt-light
00:21:55.800 is understood
00:21:56.540 as this
00:21:57.720 massive
00:21:58.980 distraction,
00:22:00.420 massive,
00:22:01.760 I guess,
00:22:03.260 kind of,
00:22:03.580 you could say
00:22:03.920 synthetic
00:22:04.620 opposition
00:22:05.520 to the
00:22:06.900 system.
00:22:07.700 Something that
00:22:08.460 will short
00:22:09.100 circuit any
00:22:10.340 serious
00:22:11.480 dissent.
00:22:12.180 getting rid
00:22:14.100 of these
00:22:14.500 people I
00:22:15.260 think
00:22:15.460 ultimately
00:22:15.980 is a
00:22:16.380 good
00:22:16.520 thing.
00:22:17.640 So from
00:22:18.220 an
00:22:18.440 amoral
00:22:19.360 perspective,
00:22:20.180 I have
00:22:21.660 no sympathy
00:22:22.900 for Alex
00:22:23.940 Jones.
00:22:24.740 From a
00:22:26.100 legal and
00:22:27.580 kind of
00:22:28.160 civilizational
00:22:29.540 perspective,
00:22:30.120 I guess you
00:22:30.580 could say,
00:22:31.460 I actually
00:22:32.300 do think
00:22:33.180 it says
00:22:34.240 something
00:22:34.840 profoundly
00:22:35.820 bad
00:22:36.480 about our
00:22:37.960 society.
00:22:38.700 so there
00:22:41.560 it is.
00:22:42.040 That's my
00:22:42.580 feelings on
00:22:43.260 the matter.
00:22:44.440 If they
00:22:44.580 weren't going
00:22:45.040 after Alex
00:22:45.700 Jones,
00:22:46.080 they might
00:22:46.360 be going
00:22:46.740 after us,
00:22:48.200 like,
00:22:49.580 literally
00:22:50.020 us.
00:22:51.060 Like,
00:22:51.480 these,
00:22:52.400 it's kind
00:22:53.220 of important
00:22:53.720 that these 1.00
00:22:55.340 silly people 1.00
00:22:56.960 are out 1.00
00:22:58.440 there absorbing
00:22:59.580 all the
00:23:00.020 legal attention.
00:23:01.780 I agree.
00:23:02.240 I mean,
00:23:02.260 I didn't
00:23:04.980 even say
00:23:05.640 it that
00:23:05.960 way,
00:23:06.220 but you
00:23:06.440 could say
00:23:06.820 it in
00:23:06.980 that way.
00:23:07.360 It's like
00:23:07.580 better him
00:23:08.240 than us.
00:23:09.460 I mean,
00:23:09.840 obviously,
00:23:10.760 the Charlottesville
00:23:11.780 case was
00:23:13.020 these white
00:23:14.700 shoe law
00:23:15.300 firms and
00:23:16.000 really big
00:23:16.780 guns getting
00:23:18.500 together and
00:23:20.260 blowing their
00:23:22.260 wad on
00:23:23.020 people.
00:23:23.360 And it did
00:23:24.080 become kind 0.72
00:23:25.040 of ridiculous 0.93
00:23:26.860 at some 0.91
00:23:27.580 point where
00:23:28.900 you're dealing
00:23:29.660 with people
00:23:30.180 who have,
00:23:31.000 you know,
00:23:31.680 the idea
00:23:33.540 that they
00:23:33.860 have the
00:23:34.100 assets that
00:23:34.920 can be
00:23:35.420 turned over
00:23:36.480 for however
00:23:37.580 millions they
00:23:38.360 wanted or
00:23:38.840 whatever,
00:23:39.040 it's just 0.98
00:23:39.420 ridiculous. 1.00
00:23:40.480 You're 1.00
00:23:40.920 attacking
00:23:41.520 marginal
00:23:42.360 people.
00:23:43.780 I think
00:23:44.280 actually the
00:23:45.000 lack of
00:23:45.640 attention on
00:23:46.300 the Charlottesville
00:23:46.800 case was
00:23:47.240 interesting.
00:23:47.800 I think
00:23:48.180 Charlottesville
00:23:48.760 was increasingly
00:23:51.540 irrelevant after
00:23:52.860 J6 and
00:23:54.840 so on.
00:23:56.360 I mean,
00:23:56.480 I don't even
00:23:57.020 know if it's
00:23:57.460 worth talking
00:23:58.180 about anymore.
00:23:59.040 But yeah,
00:24:00.140 I mean,
00:24:00.420 at the end
00:24:01.300 of the day,
00:24:02.660 Alex Jones
00:24:03.220 kind of is
00:24:04.020 standing in
00:24:05.360 front of us
00:24:06.120 and it's
00:24:07.820 ultimately fine
00:24:09.040 for him to
00:24:09.580 get knocked
00:24:10.020 off because I
00:24:11.320 don't see a
00:24:12.100 lot of
00:24:12.500 redeeming features
00:24:13.760 to Alex Jones
00:24:14.800 outside of
00:24:16.460 the, you
00:24:17.500 know,
00:24:17.800 slice of
00:24:18.360 Americana or
00:24:19.720 he's hilarious.
00:24:22.240 That's about
00:24:22.960 as far as I
00:24:23.660 could go with
00:24:24.360 praise.
00:24:27.260 That stuff is
00:24:28.640 talks.
00:24:29.160 I mean,
00:24:29.440 when the
00:24:29.760 liberals say
00:24:30.300 Alex Jones
00:24:30.860 is toxic, 0.97
00:24:31.960 for God's
00:24:32.580 sake,
00:24:32.840 do you
00:24:33.080 really want
00:24:33.580 to disagree
00:24:33.980 with them?
00:24:34.500 the
00:24:35.500 about
00:24:36.080 the
00:24:36.700 judgment of
00:24:37.900 them.
00:24:38.020 Probably the
00:24:38.260 number of
00:24:38.420 people
00:24:39.260 have
00:24:39.600 well,
00:24:40.320 they're
00:24:40.980 There's a lot of
00:24:42.360 that.