RadixJournal - June 30, 2023


Affirmative Action and Its Discontents

Topics
affirmative action nuances affirmative action debate
Hosted by
Richard Spencer
Mentioned
Gruttinger Biden George W. Bush Jim Crow Austin Blacks
The Holocaust—and Holocaust Denial—in American Life The Zoomer Problem

Episode Stats


Length

19 minutes

Words per minute

131.93

Word count

2,572

Sentence count

192

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

18

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In the wake of the Roe v. Wade decision by the Supreme Court, we take a look at the history of affirmative action at U.S. colleges and universities, and how it relates to abortion rights and abortion access in general.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Let me set up the background a little bit for affirmative action.
00:00:04.780 I have read the syllabus of the decision, so I have read quite a bit of it, but it was remarkably long.
00:00:13.260 It's a huge issuance from the court on this matter, and I'll try to go into some details.
00:00:22.240 I have some, I guess, some somewhat surprising takes on this.
00:00:27.620 One thing that I find interesting is that I remember last May being in Dallas, Texas, actually,
00:00:36.460 and I was at the airport, and the leaked decision on Roe v. Wade had been issued.
00:00:47.480 As it turns out, what was leaked in the final decision were all but identical.
00:00:53.780 I don't even know if there's any change whatsoever.
00:00:57.620 And there was a kind of, it was a bit like a 9-11 moment in a way.
00:01:04.720 Like there was, I think people were getting these messages on their phones, and there was surprise.
00:01:12.380 I mean, again, maybe this is all me in my head or something, but it just seemed like there was a little bit of surprise, alarm,
00:01:20.880 maybe joy with some people, but just a kind of sense that something had happened.
00:01:27.100 And obviously what we saw afterwards were the protesting of the justices' homes and just all of this outrage.
00:01:35.580 I don't think we're going to see anything like that actually involved with affirmative action.
00:01:41.660 Much as roughly 65% of the country supports the basic outline of Roe v. Wade,
00:01:53.340 however they might call themselves, like, oh, I'm pro-life, or I'm pro-choice, or I'm pro-woman, or whatever.
00:01:59.940 All that's kind of virtue signaling.
00:02:02.740 Effectively, Roe v. Wade was very popular.
00:02:06.540 And so there was a lot of outrage.
00:02:09.440 And I think at the very least there's a sense that something impactful really happened.
00:02:14.700 Kind of the reverse is the case here.
00:02:17.040 So polling on this is pretty interesting.
00:02:20.000 It's roughly the amount of people who oppose affirmative action are pretty much the same amount of people who support abortion rights.
00:02:32.060 And it actually includes a lot of Democrats.
00:02:36.500 You know, it's interesting.
00:02:37.680 We actually live in a world in which affirmative action at universities is banned in certain states, California being one.
00:02:44.980 And that's a rather surprising thing.
00:02:46.280 There's a lot of right-wing insurgency going on in California in the 90s.
00:02:52.580 I can actually remember it quite well.
00:02:55.480 And one of those things was banning affirmative action.
00:02:59.640 And so there was actually a referendum to allow affirmative action, and it lost in a landslide.
00:03:07.280 So there's clearly no real public support.
00:03:10.500 And I think this is a place in which the Biden administration, which is claiming to disagree with this.
00:03:20.600 I think Biden said this is not a normal court, etc.
00:03:23.060 They actually are out of step with normie America on this one.
00:03:29.300 They weren't with abortion. 0.83
00:03:30.740 They probably aren't with a lot of things.
00:03:32.520 But they are out of step with this one.
00:03:34.200 So affirmative action has taken a long and twisted road.
00:03:43.900 Legally speaking, it's basically Bakke versus the regents of the University of California or something.
00:03:52.620 And then what was the last one called?
00:03:54.440 It was called Gruttinger, Gruttinger, something like that.
00:04:01.000 Basically, they were both done by plaintiffs that were white plaintiffs that were angry that they had not been allowed into these universities,
00:04:16.380 which, of course, carry quite a bit of weight, and they sued about being discriminated against racially that is protected with the Civil Rights Act and with the 14th Amendment, in fact.
00:04:28.760 And the last one, which I believe was called Gruttinger, someone correct me if I'm wrong,
00:04:36.980 that there was a kind of timestamp placed on it by Sandra Day O'Connor, who wrote the decision.
00:04:43.940 And she said, we're allowing this as one factor among many.
00:04:49.920 So you can't have outright racial quotas.
00:04:53.380 But we understand what you're trying to do here.
00:04:57.260 We basically agree with this notion, which is the background notion that really determines everything,
00:05:04.160 which is that there is a compelling interest for diversity to exist at these institutions.
00:05:09.720 But we think that within 25 years, this will no longer be necessary.
00:05:15.900 We will have reached a kind of new stage of American history of colorblindness or just a demographic change or whatever she meant by it.
00:05:24.080 But there was clearly a timestamp.
00:05:27.300 This is occurring within 25 years.
00:05:31.240 It's around 20 or a few more.
00:05:35.460 But the court said that, you know, we claim that there was a time, you know, expiration date on this.
00:05:43.760 And you all, that is Harvard and the University of North Carolina, have clearly made no effort whatsoever to end this.
00:05:50.280 And there is no reason to believe that this will end.
00:05:53.000 This is an entrenched institutional thing.
00:05:55.460 So I would say that overall, I am pleased.
00:06:05.120 I think that it is overall a good thing and all that jazz.
00:06:13.120 But I think that I have a couple more things to say on this.
00:06:22.640 First off, there are some loopholes.
00:06:25.780 So as many have been pointing out on Twitter, there is some notion of like you've overcome racial discrimination or, you know, you've lived in a place that is the wounds are still open of our past of slavery and Jim Crow, etc.
00:06:47.940 And you can put that in a essay.
00:06:52.040 And so that is a kind of loophole in a way to do it.
00:06:55.060 The other thing that I would point out is that I was just looking at some of the demographic facts and figures that are issued by these institutions.
00:07:06.420 So I looked at two schools.
00:07:10.300 I mean, it might be interesting to look at this more broadly.
00:07:14.040 But the fact is, these schools are so aware of one another and trends that I imagine you're just going to get the same figures.
00:07:23.100 So this is Princeton.
00:07:25.920 And I'll just look at undergraduates.
00:07:27.880 So whites are in the upcoming or, excuse me, in the current 2022 to 2023 class, whites are a plurality, but actually a distinct minority.
00:07:39.740 They are 41% of the student population underrepresented, let's say.
00:07:47.940 I'll just share the screen here so you guys can see the numbers.
00:07:51.240 But that is a remarkable thing at Princeton.
00:07:53.340 Now, Asians, who make up 6% of the population, are dramatically overrepresented at 28.
00:08:03.360 Blacks are a little bit underrepresented at 9%, although not terribly underrepresented.
00:08:09.520 And Hispanics are pretty significantly underrepresented.
00:08:13.500 Then you have this multiracial category.
00:08:16.060 How does that go?
00:08:17.240 Unknown.
00:08:17.860 So there's 10% of the class that's unknown or multiracial.
00:08:20.880 I don't know.
00:08:21.360 Maybe those are actually whites claiming my great-grandmother was Native American or something like that.
00:08:30.560 But then you have a somewhat similar case in UCLA.
00:08:33.960 So this is a place where affirmative action is banned outright.
00:08:41.100 It is illegal to, at the very least, use quotas, but also use race as a factor.
00:08:47.000 And I remember when I was a high schooler, UCLA was known as the University of Caucasians lost among Asians.
00:08:58.660 I think it might still have that nickname, although perhaps that's outmoded.
00:09:04.080 But as you can see here, Asians are 33%. 0.98
00:09:09.140 It's very similar.
00:09:10.800 So Asians are dramatically overrepresented at Princeton.
00:09:15.940 They're less so within the state of California.
00:09:18.320 UCLA, of course, has people from all around the country who go there, but it is a state college.
00:09:23.220 So it should, you know, look out for citizens of that state first.
00:09:29.660 But so I believe Asians are 16% to 20% of California, and they are higher, 33%. 1.00
00:09:38.820 Hispanics are, within the state of California, underrepresented, and whites are a quarter.
00:09:45.060 That is also underrepresented.
00:09:46.620 I think whites might be 35% to 40% of the state of California.
00:09:51.440 So there you go.
00:09:52.900 But what I would say about this is that there is no doubt that the UCLA is using some sort of affirmative action.
00:10:03.740 And I actually read an article on how the California schools are going to address this.
00:10:09.920 And you see Berkeley, which is another great state college in California, they're spending $12 million a year to promote African-American enrollment in some fashion.
00:10:25.200 The fact is, yes, we don't...
00:10:28.480 I mean, whenever conservatives address this, they're always like, we're against quotas or something.
00:10:33.480 Well, they haven't been using quotas for at least 30 years, probably going on 50 years.
00:10:39.760 That's not really the issue.
00:10:41.160 The issue is giving people a nudge in the application process.
00:10:45.660 And the other issue is, the other thing you'll hear from conservatives is, we want just pure meritocracy or something like that.
00:10:52.180 Well, what is that exactly?
00:10:55.160 Pure meritocracy.
00:10:56.680 That sounds like test-taking or GPA to me.
00:11:00.180 Now, GPA is a good measure, of course, but one that I think is actually something that we should be extremely skeptical of.
00:11:13.020 Getting a GPA, getting a 3.5 GPA at a really good prep school is extremely different than getting a 4.0 at some, you know, public school in a bad part of town, regardless of the race.
00:11:32.760 And it just is.
00:11:35.760 It is fundamentally different.
00:11:38.320 That person, he might be one or he or she might be one of those B students who kind of doesn't try quite hard enough, but is actually quite good and is well-educated.
00:11:50.000 Whereas, who knows what the GPA is of someone at a bad school?
00:11:56.260 I just remember being so infuriated when I was at University of Virginia, and I would talk to some of these people who went to public school in Virginia.
00:12:06.460 They did not know how to use a library.
00:12:09.040 They didn't understand the concept of research.
00:12:12.020 They were joking about how they would just watch the television.
00:12:17.300 I think they watched Raiders of the Lost Ark in history class. 0.99
00:12:21.500 It's just something that just insultingly dumb. 0.96
00:12:24.940 And they certainly weren't analyzing it or appreciating it. 0.98
00:12:28.380 They were just kind of watching it, you know, while their history teacher, you know, I don't know, answered emails or played solitaire on his computer.
00:12:36.840 I mean, it's just fundamentally different. 0.91
00:12:40.060 And so to make this like GPA thing meritocratic is ridiculous.
00:12:44.500 In Texas, there was something with George W. Bush when he was actually governor of if you I forgot what it was.
00:12:51.440 It's like if you're in the top 5% of your class, you automatically can get a spot at UT Austin.
00:12:56.720 And again, being top 5 in your class at Highland Park or St. Mark's or wherever where I went, that is just exceedingly different than being at the top of your class somewhere else.
00:13:11.700 So it's a kind of other form of affirmative action.
00:13:14.700 The other thing that I would say in terms of this meritocratic thing that conservatives, you know, say they love, all that is is test taking.
00:13:25.180 Now, is the SAT a good proxy for IQ, let's say?
00:13:32.480 Is the SAT also, to a much lesser degree, a good proxy for general knowledge?
00:13:41.860 Uh, kind of.
00:13:43.600 It is a good proxy for just test taking ability or just raw IQ intelligence.
00:13:48.460 Well, I hate to break the news to you, fellas, but if we do a pure meritocratic, that is pure SAT-based admission standard, it is going to be a whole lot of Asians. 1.00
00:14:05.540 I mean, I agree with the plaintiffs in this way.
00:14:10.400 Like, I think at UCLA, this is just my gut feeling, is that Asians are actually, they're being underrepresented, they're overrepresented, but I think they're being harmed by a certain, you know, results, outcome-based notion of, we don't want a school that is 75% Asian. 1.00
00:14:32.000 And if we did pure GPA and SAT score, that's what it would be.
00:14:36.280 And you could even argue that in this case, not in most cases, but in this case, whites would even be less represented if it's pure test taking.
00:14:48.200 Asians, really good at that. 1.00
00:14:50.600 And I would just say as a liberal arts type guy, that test taking is not everything, my friend.
00:14:59.820 I did pretty well at the SAT, and I did even better at the GRE.
00:15:04.520 But that does not define me.
00:15:08.820 And someone else who has my identical GRE score or whatever, I think we actually have very different personalities and very different interests and abilities and depth, let's say.
00:15:21.820 So I just don't buy this fascination with meritocratic system.
00:15:29.100 I don't think that's what's going to happen.
00:15:31.320 I think these schools will just have a more complicated and thus more nuanced and insidious version of affirmative action.
00:15:40.280 And they're going to create classes like this for, among other reasons, you don't want to see a UCLA campus where it's 75% Asian girls. 1.00
00:15:52.280 Also, these campuses maintain a 50-50 split between men and women, by the way.
00:15:58.700 That's also unnatural.
00:16:00.060 And it's unnatural in favor of men. 0.89
00:16:04.660 I think this is another topic, and it's something worth discussing.
00:16:10.840 But girls are doing a lot better than boys on GRE type stuff and SATs type stuff.
00:16:19.580 So when some of these Blacks tell you that – I remember so many Blacks always told me this. 0.91
00:16:26.660 They're like the greatest beneficiary of affirmative action are white women or whatever. 0.99
00:16:32.160 This is just nonsensical.
00:16:35.020 I mean, obviously, women benefited from the end of sex segregation. 1.00
00:16:38.960 I mean, of course. 0.98
00:16:40.220 But this is absolutely ridiculous. 0.98
00:16:42.740 Clearly, the greatest beneficiary of affirmative action are African-Americans. 0.98
00:16:48.220 That's who it's for.
00:16:49.580 You guys lucked out.
00:16:50.720 You're the political football of the century.
00:16:53.820 You're the suffering Jesus figure and poor little victim that everyone worries about. 0.99
00:17:00.960 And so they want to do recompense for the fact that granddaddy owned slaves by sending you to Harvard.
00:17:07.160 I mean, congratulations.
00:17:08.520 Affirmative action is solely for you.
00:17:10.540 Diversity and Blacks are two different things. 1.00
00:17:13.720 I think all of this affirmative action debate is ultimately how are we going to get Blacks into college.
00:17:20.640 That's all they're ultimately talking about.
00:17:22.840 They're spilling millions of pounds of ink on this subject.
00:17:27.800 Diversity is another situation. 0.79
00:17:29.660 Do we want a situation in which Indian immigrants, who I imagine don't think of the whole subcontinent of India, but like Indian immigrants, who I imagine are very high IQ and very good test takers and have a mother or father that's whipping them to study. 1.00
00:17:52.660 And Asians, who really excel at this kind of Mandarin environment.
00:17:58.500 I mean, East Asians are evolved to test taking. 1.00
00:18:04.180 I mean, literally, this is the ultimate expression of just Mandarinism. 0.91
00:18:08.640 And so what do you want?
00:18:11.820 Do you want more?
00:18:12.520 Like, we want real diversity or we want meritocracy or something.
00:18:16.560 That sounds to me like you're going to have a UCLA student body that is 65% female and 65% East Asian. 0.79
00:18:27.660 That's what it sounds like to me.
00:18:30.580 So, again, I think the court is kind of like catching up with things in many ways.
00:18:38.860 And I think the American public has not liked this for a while and are over it and they see it as not benefiting their own children.
00:18:49.460 It is inherently unfair, et cetera.
00:18:52.080 And I think the court is in a way responding to this.
00:18:55.000 But once again, like the conservative fantasies, I mean, in a way, thank God that these admissions officers are going to create some Byzantine way of maintaining racial balance, which they are. 0.56
00:19:12.720 Like, thank God for that, actually.
00:19:14.220 Because if we had pure meritocracy, so many of these well-rounded and deep white boys and girls would not be getting into these colleges. 0.94