RadixJournal - Allies of Color

00:00:00.000 Well, Nathan, welcome to the Radix Podcast. How are you?

00:00:04.720 I'm doing pretty good. I'm glad to be here. I'm very excited that you invited me on today.

00:00:09.860 Great. Well, since this is your first time, why don't you tell us who you are?

00:00:15.640 Just for anyone out there, my name is Nathan D'Amigo. I helped co-found an organization about a year ago

00:00:24.000 that was really looking to put pressure on individuals and institutions across the country

00:00:32.760 that were promoting anti-white defamation and anti-white discrimination and scapegoating,

00:00:41.200 primarily in the college and university school system. We'd actually, over the last year,

00:00:49.100 been pretty successful with that. We had a very successful campaign at the Arizona State

00:00:57.020 University, and that actually made national headlines. It was in USA Today and Yahoo News.

00:01:04.660 We had a couple other very successful campaigns. One was at Appalachia State University. Another

00:01:11.700 one was at Boston University, in which we were able to raise a lot of awareness about some of

00:01:18.660 what was happening on the college campuses there as far as the promotion, either whether it was

00:01:25.340 in the case of Boston University. A professor there named Saida Grundy actually made some anti-white

00:01:33.640 tweets, and we were able to really just go after that and let the people at the school know that

00:01:43.620 people were aware of that and that we were no longer going to just stand by and allow just this

00:01:51.740 anti-white bigotry to be promoted at their school. It got picked up by some of the local Boston

00:02:02.800 newspapers. In fact, one of the writers wrote a fairly non-biased critique of what we were doing.

00:02:10.320 We've been able to put a lot of pressure on these institutions in order to ensure that they are

00:02:19.620 not promoting this type of stuff. This is something that hurts us as individuals. It hurts our friends,

00:02:31.300 our families. In one case, I think about a year or two ago, there was actually a shooting in which

00:02:39.640 this young black man unfortunately shot several white people as a result of when he was asked why

00:02:47.500 he did it. He actually said that it was the result of what he was being taught at school. This is

00:02:54.400 something that really needs to be addressed. There's a lot of support out there for something

00:02:59.960 like that. People are very tired of the anti-white culture that we're living in. We're just looking to

00:03:07.400 address that. We're looking to basically promote European rights and ensure that we are not being

00:03:16.400 defamed or scapegoated.

00:03:18.460 Yeah, that sounds great. Your organization was originally called the National Youth Front,

00:03:23.980 but from what I understand, you've gone through some rebranding and things like that. Why don't you

00:03:29.700 just talk a little bit about that just because I'm sure some listeners might want to get in touch with

00:03:33.600 you or join?

00:03:34.600 Yeah, definitely. Right now, we had to take down some of our websites. We had a little issue. I don't

00:03:44.420 want to go too into it, but we wanted to avoid litigation. There was another organization that's

00:03:49.840 been around for quite some time that felt that the name we were using perhaps violated their copyright.

00:03:56.260 So we decided that we'd make the best decision and we didn't want to infringe upon them if they felt

00:04:03.820 we were violating that copyright. We want to make sure that everything we do is on point and that

00:04:11.680 we are not doing anything that is going to harm other communities. So we actually took everything

00:04:20.060 down. We're looking at revamping the organization. And I'm really excited about this because we're

00:04:25.840 actually, we're looking, when we revamp our organization, we're going to be looking at

00:04:32.800 relaunching in a few months from now. And it's going to be, in a way, a much more mature organization.

00:04:38.700 It's going to be a European rights organization explicitly. And so that is something that I'm pretty

00:04:46.200 excited with. I think a lot of people are going to be excited about as well. And we've actually,

00:04:53.080 you know, I've never set up an organization before. So this is all very new to me. And we are going to

00:05:00.660 be able to, I was able to learn a lot from my experiences over the last year. And so now we're,

00:05:10.160 we're, we're pretty, we're pretty much ready to relaunch and do everything, uh, just with the

00:05:17.100 utmost professionalism possible. And that's something I'm really excited about. So right now

00:05:22.300 we have a temporary blog that people can go to. And, uh, the, the URL for that is pretty long. So I,

00:05:29.580 I think I'll have to shoot you a link for that so you can provide.

00:05:33.040 What's the name of the blog?

00:05:34.040 Uh, it's, uh, it's the dispossessed temp, something like that. Um, uh, forward slash

00:05:42.460 something, something, something, uh, yeah, it's, it's very long. So, uh, but yeah, we,

00:05:48.020 we basically switched, uh, just, just for the time we just thought it was kind of funny. Like,

00:05:52.900 you know, we've, you know, everything that's happening, uh, in Western civilization right now

00:05:58.720 is, uh, I believe the French refer to it as the great displacement.

00:06:03.540 And, uh, you know, we feel that and, and we experienced that in, in everything that's

00:06:09.060 going on. And that's something that we've tried to address. And, uh, you know, even us trying

00:06:13.940 to address it in a way we've kind of, even the, our original name we had, it's, it's kind

00:06:20.320 of in a way been taken from us. So we kind of feel, you know, we just kind of threw our

00:06:25.540 hands up. Uh, we had a good attitude about it and, uh, said, you know what, we'll just,

00:06:29.900 we'll just kind of use this, uh, jokingly in the meantime before we, we set up the new

00:06:35.820 LLC with the new name. So, uh, yeah, anyone, if, if they're on Facebook, they can find us

00:06:41.360 if they just type in, uh, the dispossessed.

00:06:43.860 Yeah, that's good. It reminds me of the dispossessed majority by, um, Wilmot Robertson,

00:06:48.920 which, uh, is an amazing book. I mean, it's a bit, uh, you know, it's a bit dated, I guess,

00:06:54.640 in some ways it was written during the cold war and that kind of stuff. But nevertheless,

00:06:58.960 I think that is a, uh, that's a book that every, everyone interested in these issues should,

00:07:04.300 should read because it's brilliantly written and really insightful. Um, great volume. Uh,

00:07:10.260 anyway, uh, let's, but just, let me ask one question before we dive into the whole white

00:07:15.440 student union issue. So you're, are you still going to be focused on young people or, or is

00:07:21.340 our, our focus is while, while we, uh, we do not have, uh, anyone can join. We are, uh,

00:07:30.160 very much concerned with the rights of all European people, regardless of their age. And, um, but we,

00:07:36.180 we, our focus is primarily on the youth. We understand that they are the ones who are feeling,

00:07:41.800 uh, many of the impacts of social policies that were put in place decades ago. And, uh, we want to

00:07:49.540 focus on them and give them a support network. We're going to be focusing on, uh, specifically

00:07:55.360 on, on promoting our organization around college campuses across the country. There's been,

00:08:00.720 and, uh, I think we're going to talk about this soon. There's been a very big, uh, phenomenon

00:08:06.240 that's happened with these white student, uh, Facebook pages recently. And there is very much

00:08:12.220 a desire for representation of white European students because of what is being taught in the

00:08:20.060 classroom and the lack of voice that they have there. They're not able to have any help really

00:08:27.260 from the administration. And they know that if they reach out to try to start something,

00:08:32.480 they're going to be socially ostracized for it. We do not have, uh, what is typically, uh, a,

00:08:38.920 a popular opinion at this point because of the, um, anti-white culture that we're living in. So

00:08:46.660 we want to, we want to provide a support network that isn't really going to be working inside the

00:08:53.360 system at this point. It's going to be working outside the system, but we want to, we want,

00:08:57.640 uh, students knowing that we are there and that we are working hard to build a network for them

00:09:04.760 outside the system that they can come be a part of. You mean outside the university system?

00:09:09.840 Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That, that makes sense. Cause I think it, um, it probably is

00:09:15.940 going to be very hard to get a white student union passed, at least passed by all these committees

00:09:21.000 and things. Um, at least at this point, I can remember when I was an undergraduate, uh, many years

00:09:27.360 ago, uh, I was part of an organization. You, you kind of, you do have to apply. It was not a white

00:09:33.500 student union. You, uh, I was, uh, I guess racially unconscious at that point in my life,

00:09:39.340 which is probably the best way to put it. I don't think anyone is racially ignorant or they don't,

00:09:44.060 no one are racially blind. I think unconscious is maybe the best way to put it. But, but anyway,

00:09:49.560 I know, I know all those, all that's all the shit that goes into, you know, getting funding,

00:09:56.260 getting your group recognized and all that kind of stuff. It probably a white student union probably

00:10:00.820 couldn't be recognized at this point. But anyway, let's just dive into this, uh, issue because I,

00:10:07.220 I think this issue is fascinating, uh, of, and I'm talking of course about the white student union

00:10:12.520 phenomenon. Um, I think it's fascinating. I think there's probably a lot of confusion. There's

00:10:17.060 probably also a lot of misinformation going on. Um, so let's just dive in. So what is your,

00:10:24.940 why don't you explain what's happening? Um, that, that, you know, I think a lot of people

00:10:29.940 who are listening to this probably have an inkling that there have been some, some Facebook pages

00:10:34.560 effectively that have been established. Uh, but, but why don't you talk about what, what is going on

00:10:40.400 and how, how, how big a phenomenon phenomenon is this? How serious is it? Um, just, just kind of get

00:10:48.620 us, give us a primer on, on this whole issue. Yeah. Well, for, for those who, who haven't been

00:10:56.060 following up or who have just followed up enough to know that it's, it's going on, but haven't really,

00:11:01.560 um, been able to follow the, the entire, uh, roots of, of where it's come from. Several weeks ago,

00:11:08.900 an individual at the university of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, uh, set up a Facebook page

00:11:17.700 for a white students union at the school that they went to in response to a, a BLM activist group,

00:11:27.980 the, um, that's, that's came to the campus and was organizing there and, and was holding events

00:11:35.320 there. And that individual felt isolated and, and felt that, uh, they wanted to find a way to,

00:11:42.720 to reach out to other students and see if anyone else there was interested in taking part of this.

00:11:48.980 And that individual actually, I can confirm that that individual actually is a student there. There

00:11:54.260 was, there was a lot of confusion as, as to whether or not that was a legitimate page from a student or

00:12:00.980 whether or not that was a troll, but that, that was actually a real person that I myself have actually

00:12:05.760 made contact with. So we know that this is a real phenomenon. And what had happened was that

00:12:13.160 after that page got put up, uh, a lot of attention got brought to it by the BLM activists to the staff

00:12:22.680 of the school there. And they were not happy with it. Many of the staff are in support of the BLM movement

00:12:30.540 and, uh, they, they do not, um, they are not approving of any other, uh, messages or, you know,

00:12:39.820 alternative ideas other than what they've been promoting for the last few decades. And so what

00:12:45.740 they did was they reached out to Facebook and claimed that the, uh, Facebook page was violating

00:12:52.360 the school's, uh, copyright, which is, uh, a reoccurring incident in, uh,

00:12:59.620 anyone who's, anyone who's trying to do anything remotely pro white. Uh, and so they, they took

00:13:06.940 down the page and after they took down the page, surprisingly enough, I'm not sure which news

00:13:13.500 outlets it was, but several, several different news outlets broke the story and it kind of went

00:13:20.180 national. And after it did within just, I think just within a couple of days, uh, probably about 30

00:13:28.940 more popped up in its place. Uh, not, there was one for the school, but 30 more popped up for other

00:13:35.360 schools around the country. And that created quite a bit of a stir. People were trying to figure out

00:13:43.280 whether or not, uh, this was just, you know, an, an elaborate troll hoax or whether or not these

00:13:49.100 individuals were actually students at their school who were trying to find a way to, uh, kind of

00:13:58.420 collectivize and, and, and find a way to, uh, speak out and have a voice in which they wouldn't

00:14:05.680 be socially ostracized at the school, which can be very difficult for a young college age individual

00:14:12.400 to do. And, um, originally many of the, uh, the news networks out there were, uh, saying that they

00:14:20.380 were doing investigative journalism. I think Buzzfeed was, was the one that kind of comes to mind that,

00:14:25.140 which claimed that they were all hoaxes. And immediately after that, Breitbart actually did

00:14:30.760 a very good article and they actually spent the time, uh, contacting all the individuals who were

00:14:38.200 running the pages. And I, I, and perhaps because Breitbart is, uh, more open to our ideas that perhaps

00:14:47.560 those individuals felt more comfortable to, in, in talking to their journalists, but they were actually

00:14:53.380 able to verify that many of these pages were legitimate pages that had been started by students

00:15:01.020 and individuals at these different schools. Some of which, uh, some of which actually weren't even

00:15:07.200 white students. I think one was a claim to be, that was a very interesting. Yeah. Uh, I think one

00:15:14.260 claimed to be an Asian student and another one, a Latino student who were just sick and, and fed up of

00:15:21.200 the scapegoating and, and anti-white, uh, narrative that's being pushed on college campuses. Yeah.

00:15:28.580 And so there are allies of color. Yeah. I think that's great. Um, and, um, I'll just jump in real

00:15:35.980 quick. Yeah. I remember it was, gosh, it was, I think it was 2010 when, um, someone brought me to

00:15:42.020 give a brief talk at Vanderbilt. Uh, so this is a, you know, a number of years ago. And, um, I, I did

00:15:48.280 remember that there was, there was obviously a lot of hostility, uh, and there, there was hostility

00:15:53.460 amongst black students and I, but I, you know, I of course certainly addressed them, but yeah, I,

00:15:58.100 there, there were a few allies of color of, I think Asian and then, uh, maybe Indian. And they,

00:16:05.380 they would, you know, you could tell that they, they were actually listening to our ideas and,

00:16:11.460 and understanding what we were, that what we were putting forth was legitimate. It wasn't just

00:16:16.540 irrational or, or, or, you know, some excuse to oppress people or whatever they think it is.

00:16:22.680 Uh, so yeah, I, I think we should, uh, you know, I think we should have things like white student

00:16:27.300 unions where, which are in a way we, we exclude people that it's about us in the sense that I

00:16:33.960 can't join an African-American student union. Um, but I think we should also definitely, you know,

00:16:38.760 be very open and respectful to allies of color. Uh, I think they could be, they could play a really

00:16:44.480 important role in all this stuff. So. Yeah, I, I, I do agree. Um, as far as the students union,

00:16:51.540 as far as the student unions go, I, I believe some of the laws may be set up to where, um,

00:16:58.260 you are required to be inclusive. Like if someone wants to become a member, uh, you are required by

00:17:04.460 state law. And, uh, we definitely do need something that is exclusive for us, where we can talk about

00:17:11.480 the issues we need to be, we need to address and we can talk about them in a comfortable setting

00:17:17.340 where people feel comfortable addressing them. But yeah, we, we do need to, we need, we do need

00:17:22.980 to be open and we do need to have allies that, uh, that will, you know, this isn't something that just

00:17:29.880 that only white people see. This is, this is something that, that a lot of people see and,

00:17:35.240 and realize it's just that no one's really felt comfortable speaking up, up and out, uh, about

00:17:43.260 it. And, uh, I think, uh, there's a video that surfaced several weeks ago of an Asian student down

00:17:52.100 in Southern California was actually saying that, uh, they, they, they had a, a, a group, uh, that was

00:17:59.800 complaining about, uh, racism and, and this, this Asian girl went out there and, and said,

00:18:07.640 you know what, uh, white people are not the only people who are capable of being racist. I've met

00:18:13.020 black racists as well. And that crowd just, uh, almost, uh, ate her alive. It was, uh, you know,

00:18:22.220 so yeah, we're definitely not the only ones who, who see this stuff and, uh, we're not the only ones

00:18:28.120 that, that, that this affects. So yeah, we should definitely be, be open and willing to, uh, talk

00:18:34.580 to people of color and, and allies, uh, to address these things. It's something that we're going to

00:18:40.260 have to do. We're going to have to have this open conversation. And in fact, many people of color are

00:18:44.800 asking for this conversation to be had. So I think it's something that we need to have and, and we need

00:18:50.840 to be open about it. And, um, I think if we are, I think a lot of times when something isn't being

00:18:58.940 talked about, it becomes, uh, it kind of becomes bigger than it really actually is in the minds of

00:19:06.320 individuals. And once you actually do start talking about it, people kind of, uh, become, uh, they,

00:19:14.960 they, they kind of just, uh, once, once, once the conversation is, uh, does occur, then they're,

00:19:22.720 they're kind of disarmed in a way. They, they realize that it's not really as threatening as

00:19:26.760 they imagined it being in their minds. So yeah, I definitely think that.

00:19:30.540 Well, it's very similar to the, the, the talking cure as, as Freud talked about it, or confession

00:19:36.300 as, as, as the, as certainly a tradition in, in Christianity. Um, it's basically a, a notion that if,

00:19:43.860 if you put something into words, you, you, you kind of gain power over it. And, um, and it's,

00:19:49.260 it's no longer as threatening as it, as it could be. I think that's very true. I think just this,

00:19:54.080 this idea of someone saying, why isn't there a student union? I, that is a powerful, radical notion.

00:20:00.800 And, and, and once you say it, it's, it's something that's, you know, it's, it's on,

00:20:05.860 it's on the tip of everyone's tongue, but no one's willing to say it. And once you say it,

00:20:09.780 it, it, it, you kind of diffuse all that tension and then, then you can be realistic about it and

00:20:14.540 say like, Oh, well, let's, let's build this. Um, and another thought real quick, I, just to,

00:20:20.320 to, to go back to one other issue is I think probably the way to do a white student union

00:20:25.460 at a university where there are rules about exclusion, I think it's just basically to say

00:20:30.500 anyone can be a member, you know, it's, you could, you could be of any race or nationality

00:20:34.620 because that, you know, you, you obviously have to follow rules. Um, but I, I think we should just

00:20:39.500 have, you know, maybe above those, um, and you could say this is a safe space, you know, kind of

00:20:45.860 thing, but above those types of organizations, we, we do need other, you know, private groups that,

00:20:52.140 that do exclude people and that are for, you know, for us and our, and our, and us alone. Um, but,

00:20:58.320 but on campus, I think you could definitely just say, uh, you know, this is a safe space. Uh, whites

00:21:02.640 can join if you, if you want to be an ally of color or, or what, what have you, um, we welcome

00:21:07.620 you. I think that's a totally reasonable position to take. Um, yeah, let's, let's talk a little bit

00:21:13.160 about this, this idea that, that Buzzfeed put forward that these are just a, it's all a big

00:21:19.060 troll. And, you know, I, there, we actually had a really good article at Radix about this called

00:21:24.620 the long troll. And, but I, I would, I would take the position that, and this was the position

00:21:31.560 taken by the author, uh, Abigail James. And, and I, I totally, I agree with everything she

00:21:36.720 wrote. I would take the position that maybe this is a troll to a large degree. Maybe this,

00:21:42.740 this is created by, you know, the, the, the TRS crowd or other, other kind of, you know,

00:21:50.600 trollish people. And even if that, let's say that's the case. I think even that is fine because

00:21:56.200 it really is about just, it's a, it's about getting it out there and it's about maybe just

00:22:02.020 starting something. And maybe it's, maybe the, the beginning point isn't perfect. Maybe we would

00:22:07.580 much rather that people who are already leaders on campus say, yes, I am going to start this group,

00:22:13.600 but maybe, maybe they can't do that because, you know, you have to think about it in order to do what

00:22:19.980 we do where we're, we're open. Um, we show our faces, um, we're open about our names. Um, you

00:22:27.200 know, you, you have to be dedicated, but you also have to be a bit crazy and, uh, uh, you know, you,

00:22:33.100 you have to have some kind of personality or sadly, the other case is that, that people do this when

00:22:38.960 they don't have anything to lose. And so, you know, there, it becomes a bit of a shit show where,

00:22:45.380 where they're just, they, you know, there's, they don't have anything to lose. They have everything

00:22:49.160 to gain by the media attacking them. And so they, they kind of enjoy that. Um, but you know,

00:22:54.840 with people who do have something to lose, uh, who, who, who could do something else and, and

00:23:00.400 succeed at that, you know, you, you have to, you have to have a little bit of the, the crazy gene

00:23:05.300 to, to want to do this because it affects you. It affects your personal life. It affects your

00:23:09.560 friendships. It affects your family. It certainly affects your job prospects. So it's hard for me to

00:23:14.900 ask a 20 year old college student, like, Hey, do you want to not get a job?

00:23:22.220 Yeah. Oh yeah. It's, it's very difficult. And I think, um, like one of the things we're looking

00:23:27.720 at is, uh, well, I'm thinking about two things right now. And one is that, um, revolutions aren't

00:23:35.820 always as neat as we like to think they are. And sometimes, uh, it's a long, you know, when we look

00:23:43.200 back at history to us, it looks nice and neat and clean because of the way it's been written

00:23:47.660 about. But, uh, a lot of the times it's, it's kind of, uh, the momentum is kind of stumbling

00:23:54.160 over itself, trying to figure out, uh, where it's going and how to go about getting there.

00:24:00.020 And so, yeah, that's, uh, it's definitely something that some of these accounts are, are, were,

00:24:06.140 were definitely set up by people originally saying, uh, you know what, if they're going to do

00:24:11.560 this, uh, if they're going to take down this Facebook page, then I'm just going to set one

00:24:14.980 up and, and as a troll. And you know what, that's a great thing. I think it's amazing

00:24:19.340 thing. And one of the things that, uh, is important is staying power. If, if these Facebook pages

00:24:25.380 that are set up, many of which are being threatened by the colleges, uh, with litigation, uh, whether

00:24:31.820 or not that, that threat is real, if, if they continue to put those pages up, eventually the

00:24:39.320 schools are going to get tired of dealing with it and they're just gonna, they're just

00:24:42.320 gonna let it happen. And that's a small victory in and of itself of having that staying power

00:24:48.500 there. Now I've actually had the opportunity of having many of the people who run these

00:24:54.780 pages reach out to me and, and talk to me and are, are interested in what we're doing

00:25:00.200 when we're relaunching in a couple months and interested in getting involved. And so I've

00:25:06.460 actually met many of these individuals who are, who are running these things. And it's

00:25:10.160 very exciting that, uh, some of them are, many of them are, are outside of any of the

00:25:16.120 networks I've, I've been in touch with. They're, they're brand new to this. And so that's, that's,

00:25:22.360 uh, a very telling sign for me and a, and a very telling sign for everyone listening right

00:25:27.540 now that there are new people who are coming in as a result. Some of them are just coming in

00:25:33.420 just because they see a double standard there and want to do something about it. But there

00:25:39.200 really is, um, uh, from my viewpoint, from my perspective and from what I see, there are

00:25:46.980 lots and lots of college kids within our organization and even outside our organization who aren't

00:25:53.600 there yet, who are, uh, the, we do have people who share our views, young, uh, men and women

00:26:00.180 who share our views that are on college campuses. And many of them have actually wanted to come out

00:26:05.920 and start white students unions. And I've actually slowed them down as we were talking about a little

00:26:11.560 bit earlier, uh, because oftentimes young people jump into things, not, not fully thinking about

00:26:16.700 the repercussions of what they're doing. And we want to protect our members as well. Uh, we don't

00:26:22.660 want to stop what's happening. We want it to continue to push forward, but we want to make sure that we

00:26:27.500 don't set, uh, our people up for failure. And so one of the, one of the things we've discussed with

00:26:33.500 a lot of our people, because we do have, uh, I think even here in the state of California, we,

00:26:38.460 we may have about five members, uh, members of my organization who are in school right now,

00:26:44.240 who are in college and probably a few more people I know who aren't in my organization here in

00:26:49.340 California who are in college. And that's just here in the state of California. So I know there's this,

00:26:54.660 there's this broad, uh, vast, uh, kind of kind of, uh, uh, sprinkled, uh, here and there throughout

00:27:02.420 the country, call amount of college students who agree with our message, who want to do something

00:27:08.060 about it and are willing to do something about it. But, uh, what we're looking to do is that if this

00:27:14.680 is something we want to do, we want to make sure that we're completely organized, uh, across the board

00:27:21.480 first. And that if, if we are going to let individuals know, okay, you know, now is the

00:27:28.740 time to start white students unions, like officially, like walking into your school and, and, uh, filing

00:27:35.340 the paperwork or, or whatever is required to, to start that organization at the school that we do it

00:27:41.820 all at once. Cause there's kind of this safety in numbers when you do things. And that would take a

00:27:47.940 lot of pressure off a lot of the individuals who are there at the school, the, the school papers and

00:27:53.360 stuff will probably write about it. The new, the local news will, will write about it. So there is

00:27:58.020 very much, um, a chance of their name still getting out there, but it will, it will add a, a level,

00:28:05.280 it will add a very high level of, um, of risk of legitimacy to what they're doing. If you have

00:28:17.280 30, 40, 50, uh, schools opening up white students unions at the same time. So that's actually what

00:28:25.800 we're looking to do and what our organization wants to help with in the future. Now that, that may not

00:28:31.460 happen in the next year, but I think, I think it's very realistic within perhaps the next, uh, three to

00:28:36.780 five years. And I, I'm kind of hedging there. Uh, it may be sooner than that, but that's really what

00:28:41.720 we're looking to do. I have lots and lots of, of college students who I've talked with over the

00:28:47.500 last three to six months. So this is, this is something that's very real and yeah, there have

00:28:53.160 been, uh, some trolls that got involved with it. And, uh, some of, even some of those who I've talked

00:28:59.440 to actually said that they had individuals who went to the school that then became admins

00:29:04.460 afterwards. So I think it might just, it might just start in this way and, and maybe, maybe it's

00:29:12.940 going to take five years or 10 years or 15 years, but maybe at some point it will be normalized to

00:29:17.960 the degree that it's okay. Um, you know, there, there, there, there are tons of examples in history

00:29:24.840 of, of things that are people are outraged by, and then they, they basically find normal, uh, normal

00:29:30.140 after a little while. Uh, so, you know, maybe this is the, this is the gay marriage of, of the next

00:29:36.740 10 years. We, we just kind of have to put it out there and people will either laugh at it or they'll

00:29:41.700 be shocked or they'll condemn it. Um, but, but eventually they're just going to have to accept

00:29:47.140 it. And I think this also gets to why I think this movement really is brilliant. And, you know,

00:29:52.620 I would say that the, the stuff that I'm doing and other people is, you know, you, you could say

00:30:01.000 that it's the, the, what's great about it and what's in a way weak about it is that it's, it's

00:30:08.100 heady and idealistic. So, you know, we're pursuing, you know, we want to change the world. We want to

00:30:14.060 create a new paradigm. We're, we're promoting the philosophy of identity, identitarianism and so on.

00:30:19.120 And, you know, we, we look forward to the coming ethno state and, and all this kind of stuff. And

00:30:24.720 I think that's great. And I think all of that, this kind of idealism is necessary because if you

00:30:30.300 don't have an end goal, if you don't have an ideal, you're, you're not, you're just reacting to

00:30:35.760 things. You're a reactionary. You don't like the left. You don't like this. You don't like that.

00:30:39.980 And you're, you're just kind of reacting to what other people are doing and you're not doing what we,

00:30:46.200 we need to be doing. And, and so I, I think, you know, I, heady idealism is, is necessary and it's

00:30:52.620 good. But what I like about the, the white student union phenomenon is that it's, it's not so much

00:31:00.040 heady idealism. It's, it's a kind of, you're, for lack of a better word, you're, you're fucking with

00:31:06.260 postmodern academia and you're basically turning their language and on themselves, on them, and you're,

00:31:13.940 you're throwing it back in their face. And so, you know, you, and, and you're also, I think when

00:31:19.780 you're doing this, you're, you're getting at a certain contradiction within the modern left, which

00:31:24.680 is on the one hand, we want total equality. There's no such thing as identity. That's a social

00:31:30.900 construction, blah, blah, blah. But on the other hand, the left is actually very much dedicated to

00:31:36.860 identity. The left, the left wants to create identities, even where they might be dubious. Like they

00:31:41.980 want to create Asian student alliances and things like that, where, you know, the, the Japanese and

00:31:47.440 the Chinese and Indians don't exactly get along, but, but, you know, they, they, they, in some ways,

00:31:53.620 the irony of it is that the left is really passionately dedicated to identity. And it's

00:31:58.140 actually the, the, the right so-called the conservatives who react to the very notion of

00:32:03.820 identity politics and claim that they don't see race. And, you know, if you, if you notice someone's

00:32:09.200 race, that's, that's offensive, we're all just citizens or individual souls or, or whatever they

00:32:15.100 imagine. And so I think what's interesting about this, this phenomenon is that it's, it's kind of

00:32:19.460 like a left-wing phenomenon. It's, it's, it's, it's jumping on the bandwagon. It's, it's using

00:32:25.960 the ideology and, and language and, and, and impulses of the postmodern academia. And, but, but it's kind

00:32:35.660 of twisting them and it's using the, for IRNs and it's show, it's revealing the inner contradictions.

00:32:40.960 And so I, I think, so it is, it is the long troll. I think that's the best, best way of thinking about

00:32:46.240 it, but it's great. Well, yeah, some of the, some of the rhetoric I've seen on some of those pages has

00:32:51.680 been phenomenal. I've actually, I think copy and pasted some of them as notes just because the talking

00:32:59.820 points were so amazing from some of these individuals. And that's, yeah, that's what the,

00:33:05.320 the exact same, they are, this is definitely a, a really a left-wing movement. And it is,

00:33:12.560 I've actually been studying up on, on some of this literature of, I'm reading a book right now on

00:33:20.300 critical race theory and pedagogy of the oppressed by Freire, trying to understand some of these left-wing,

00:33:29.280 what are typically considered left-wing ideas, what you know, what they're saying. And I've actually

00:33:35.220 discovered some really excellent things from reading them. And I think our best bet to reaching

00:33:43.220 out to, to students, especially young students, millennials is to use this language and this

00:33:50.100 language, uh, much of it, uh, to a T, uh, really just, um, really just gets at what we're trying to

00:34:00.420 say. And it's, it's really great. I've noticed that when you're having conversations, it's really

00:34:05.000 great when, when they can say something that they think is going to be like this gotcha, uh, talking

00:34:10.820 point. And then you agree with them and say, Oh yeah, that's true. And, and, and then you redirect

00:34:17.100 that. It kind of takes the, the wind out of their sails and they don't know where to go from that.

00:34:22.360 They're used to a specific reaction from a specific talking point. But a lot of times there are, there

00:34:28.880 are actually very, uh, legitimate and good points that the, that the left makes. And that's one of

00:34:34.520 the reasons why they're so, uh, convincing to so many people, uh, because they, uh, now they're,

00:34:42.520 the conclusions they might come to, we might feel are wrong because there's, uh, an absence of

00:34:48.180 information in their premise. But, uh, some of the facts that they're showing are, are actually

00:34:53.840 usually accurate. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, I think also the, the right is really

00:34:59.800 intellectually impoverished. And so I, and that, I think that is one fundamental reason why we do have

00:35:08.100 a society based on left wing norms and, and, and things like this. So I, I just, I, I think it's

00:35:15.500 almost important. You, you have to go there, you, you have to kind of imbibe, uh, the left and

00:35:21.240 understand what is driving society and what is driving society at, at high levels. Um, you know,

00:35:28.880 the, the rights, the right doesn't really have an answer because they, they never really understood

00:35:34.060 in any, they've, they've never really taken the time to understand this stuff. They, they just have

00:35:39.320 kind of a collection of, of principles, which are kind of, you know, which are basically like

00:35:44.520 classical liberalism plus maybe a little bit of vague Christianity thrown in for good measure,

00:35:51.440 but they, they, they've really never had the, the right doesn't have a critique. The right doesn't

00:35:56.680 have a philosophical system. The right doesn't, uh, the right doesn't have a vanguard. I mean,

00:36:01.920 that, that's why I think there's this, there's this vacuum that, you know, the alt-right and,

00:36:07.160 and effectively us are, are, are filling because, you know, the mainstream conservative,

00:36:12.440 conservatives have never even thought in this direction. They, they've just kind of reacted to

00:36:16.940 the left and, and, and hopes that everyone will just go and not think too much and start a small

00:36:23.100 business or something that, that seems to be their ideal. And, you know, I think that's great. And I,

00:36:27.760 I think that, you know, that's great to a certain extent that, that idea of just being

00:36:31.900 normal and being a normie and, and not being political, political and, and, and just living

00:36:39.520 your life and having a family and all that kind of stuff. I think that's great. But, uh, but if

00:36:43.980 you, you know, all of these societies are, are changed really in the intellectual sphere. And if

00:36:49.800 you don't, if you don't fight in that sphere, you're, you're going to lose. You, you can't just

00:36:55.600 say, Oh, we won't fight that battle. We'll just go over here. You know, that's where you're

00:36:59.440 being attacked. You have to fight that battle. And, and so we, we have to go to academia. We

00:37:04.460 have to write books. We have to have a critique of society. We have, we have to have philosophy.

00:37:09.400 We have to have, you know, uh, all this stuff. And, uh, so yeah, I, I think this, this white

00:37:15.440 student union movement is, is part of what I'm talking about. It's, it's a, it's a huge troll

00:37:20.860 of, of current academia and it's, it's pushing for something else. And, and I, I really do

00:37:27.000 believe, I, I think we'll, we'll look back on, you know, 2015 as, as like the first stage

00:37:33.760 when this idea started to be normalized. I hope so.

00:37:38.640 Yeah. I have the, I have the exact same view and, uh, just going back to that normalization

00:37:44.420 again, uh, I, I continuously tell our guys and other people we're working with, uh, just

00:37:50.320 to continue to agitate, uh, agitate, agitate, agitate, because that's what brings about

00:37:55.400 normalization is, uh, is just a continuous presence and not, not allowing our detractors

00:38:03.440 to have safe spaces because that's the, that's really the only way their ideology can exist.

00:38:10.240 Their narrative can exist is, is in, uh, is essentially in a vacuum. And so we have to

00:38:17.460 get in there and we have to, uh, we have to work our way into every medium of communication

00:38:26.320 and, and not allow, uh, those ideas to, uh, circulate unchallenged. And so, uh, I'm a big

00:38:35.120 fan of these troll campaigns, uh, you know, whether or not, uh, you know, I, I can, I can

00:38:41.160 attest to the fact that this is a very legitimate phenomenon, but it's, it's a mixture of trolling

00:38:46.240 and, uh, real life people who really want to make a difference. And, and that's kind of,

00:38:51.340 I think we're gonna, uh, eventually, uh, just lull our way into victory. Uh, so, um, I'm very

00:39:00.340 excited. I think, I think, I think we pretty much won, to be honest, it's, it's just a matter

00:39:05.140 of, of going through the motions over the coming decades ahead. I think we, we in a way

00:39:10.700 have won because no one can really criticize the notion of a white student union. You know,

00:39:17.640 they have to come up with some ulterior, uh, you know, thing. So, so it's like, well, this

00:39:24.960 is really about racism and violence, despite everything they just said, you know, they,

00:39:29.740 they have to come up with some, you know, outside way of, of, of, of denouncing it. But

00:39:36.320 in a way, what they're doing is that they're, they're revealing their own kind of authoritarian

00:39:40.280 side where it's like, we, we like this, therefore this is legitimate. We don't like you, therefore

00:39:45.700 you're illegitimate. And, and, and so I, I think we in a way have won because there's, there's

00:39:51.000 no way for people to critique this. I think there was some, I saw somewhere, there was

00:39:55.300 some basic questions that were asked and it was like, how much of a minority do whites

00:40:01.380 have to be before we can have a white student union? You know, and, and just questions like

00:40:07.000 that, because I think people are, people are often like they're generals fighting the last

00:40:11.660 war. Like they're, they're still living in a world where whites are like 98% of Harvard

00:40:17.700 or something, you know, and, and they're just a few blacks that, oh, we don't even know

00:40:21.500 how they got in. And they're, they're being oppressed and, and demeaned every step of the

00:40:26.680 way and all that kind of, like people still have this vision of, of, of something from

00:40:31.780 the 1950s or something. And it's like, look, that, that is not what's happening. Um, whites

00:40:38.120 are particularly Gentile whites, non-Jewish whites are, are really effectively, they are

00:40:43.400 underrepresented, tremendously unrepresented, uh, uh, uh, vis-a-vis their proportion of

00:40:50.040 society. Um, as Ron Unns famously showed in, in a, in a paper everyone should check

00:40:55.240 out. Um, and, uh, but I saw that, that was a great paper by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:41:01.140 I shared that. That was excellent. Yeah. And, and, you know, they, they are, you know,

00:41:05.260 whites, whites, you know, the really general term whites are underrepresented as a, as a, uh,

00:41:13.380 the proportion of their population, they're underrepresented, but Gentile whites, non-Jewish

00:41:17.620 whites are really underrepresented. So at, at what point can we, can we actually have a minority

00:41:23.780 interest group? And you just ask that question and people, they, they, they freeze up, you know,

00:41:30.180 it's like you're, you're, it's, it's kind of, it's like kryptonite, you know, and, and I, I think

00:41:35.500 that's, that's exactly what we need to be doing. That's yeah. And that's one of the talking points

00:41:40.360 actually that, that we have considered and that I myself have considered. I know that in the future,

00:41:44.940 I'm going to be asked these tough questions, uh, about what we're doing. And that's, that's exactly,

00:41:50.260 uh, one of the questions we'll be asking in return is, is at what point, uh, do, is it legitimate

00:41:57.460 for us to ask for representation? When do we have to wait till we're 30% of the population, 20%? Like

00:42:05.380 what's, you know, what's the percentage? And yeah, people freeze up. They don't know, uh, how to

00:42:10.460 answer that. And in fact, uh, this, this is a very common thing is that, um, when, when we say we

00:42:18.780 want representation, a lot of times we're challenged, uh, by individuals who say, well, you know what,

00:42:25.060 there's already, you know, look at Congress, there's already white people. There's always like

00:42:30.200 some excuse and, or, or, you know, usually they, they point to the amount of, of white people who

00:42:38.060 are, are in government or something like that. And I found that really interesting because right now

00:42:43.720 I'm actually, uh, working on a paper that I'm writing that actually discusses a concept that

00:42:50.560 was brought about from, uh, a man who is actually, uh, considered the, uh, original, uh, the originator

00:42:59.600 of critical race theory. His name is Dr. Derek Bell. And I believe he was one of the first black

00:43:05.360 professors at Harvard. And he wrote a paper in the 1980s discussing a phenomenon called interest

00:43:12.960 convergence. And he, he got, he got attacked, uh, a lot by a lot of people, uh, by that, uh, for writing

00:43:21.920 that paper. But in the paper, he, uh, he put forward the, uh, the conjecture that every time there was

00:43:31.020 some type of civil rights advancement, it always coincided with what was in the interest of elite

00:43:41.740 whites. Yeah. And so one of our points is that, uh, yes, that has been the issue all along. This is,

00:43:50.600 this is not, uh, this is not simply as black as white and white as it appears. This is actually

00:43:57.660 what's happened over time has been a form of class warfare in which white elites have utilized people

00:44:04.760 of color, uh, against, uh, middle class and lower class whites, uh, to further advance either their

00:44:12.660 careers, whether it's in academia or if it's in government or, um, if it's in finance or, or, or

00:44:19.800 business. So, uh, that is something that I really feel that hasn't, I haven't really seen it covered

00:44:25.960 by, by too many people from that angle. And I feel that that's in a language that, that many young

00:44:31.600 students who have been exposed to critical race theory, uh, would, it's a language that they

00:44:37.220 understand. And I think that that's something that, um, that's might be able to, uh, to show a lot of

00:44:45.100 these individuals, how, uh, you know, it doesn't matter how many white people are in Congress,

00:44:52.120 they aren't putting forward, uh, what is best for Europeans as a collective, they're putting

00:44:58.800 forward their own economic interests first. Yeah. No, I mean, I, I think that's what I've,

00:45:04.580 I've always said. I'm like, I, I don't usually, I don't like the term white advocate or something.

00:45:10.340 It, it almost, it, it almost makes it sound like if Hillary Clinton were elected, we'd be like,

00:45:15.400 Oh yeah. Oh, another white is in office. One of our own has made it, you know, kind of thing. Or,

00:45:22.400 or we think that all these congressmen are representing us, you know, this is great. Um, I, I think

00:45:28.780 obviously there's this, this, this, you know, asymmetry where, uh, uh, between, between racial advocates

00:45:38.060 for other races and, and basically white congressmen, um, who are clearly not doing what

00:45:44.480 is, uh, in the best interest of, of white people. And, and whenever you have someone like Donald

00:45:49.140 Trump, who people, you know, who seems to kind of press these buttons and who might very well do

00:45:55.740 what's in the interest, who might be doing what's in the interest of white people, uh, people just freak

00:46:00.780 out and, and worry. They fret, you know, start wringing their hands over the next Hitler and,

00:46:05.900 and all this kind of stuff. So there's, there's obviously, we just live in a, uh, this really

00:46:10.660 asymmetrical world. Um, but, um, but anyway, why don't we do this, Nathan, uh, let's just put a,

00:46:17.400 uh, a bookmark in the conversation. And, um, I'd certainly love for you to come back and cause I'm,

00:46:22.700 I'm, this is definitely the start of something and hopefully there'll be a lot more to, uh, to talk

00:46:29.160 about in the, in the coming years about this, uh, white student union phenomenon, which again,

00:46:33.320 I really hope is just, just now taking off and, and, and is going to be something that,

00:46:38.780 that makes an impact in the coming decade. Yeah. Thanks. I'm, I'm very excited that you

00:46:44.360 had me on and I had a great time. I think we were able to cover a lot of things that

00:46:48.240 people will find pretty interesting and we'll be glad they have a little bit more insight now

00:46:53.500 than they had before. Yeah, definitely. Well, let's do it again. Sounds good.

RadixJournal - December 07, 2015

Allies of Color

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