Black Friday
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 3 minutes
Words per Minute
154.95891
Summary
In this episode of Conspiracy Theories, I am joined by a friend of mine who has a piece about the recent mass shooting in Paris. We talk about the aftermath of the Charlie Chaumeux shooting and how it affected him personally.
Transcript
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um actually it was even more personal than last time you know with the charlie abdo shooting was
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a bit abstract because it happened in the morning and i just learned about it like
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everyone else actually i you know on the web this time it was different because um so i as i
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explained in my piece i decided to uh to go home by foot and then i so i walked by um you know this
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concert facility where main shooting happened and um and then i um so i went home and actually
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um one of the places uh we could say a minor shooting but i think it was something like
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18 people who were killed was actually uh four blocks from where i live it's only 500 meters
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and um you didn't i think you you the blocks are larger in paris but you you mentioned that you
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didn't hear anything um but it almost seems like you must have i didn't say that in my piece because
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it uh didn't look very serious but i was actually watching something um an episode of utopia it's a
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british series that i uh recommend especially if you're interested in conspiracy series um but i
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didn't hear anything but i i don't think i would have heard anything because um even if it was closed
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you know um the buildings are very dense in uh in paris so it really creates a buffer uh to sounds and
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you you don't hear that much actually i'm very close to um a huge boulevard where actually is um
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uh one of the shootings happened and uh i don't hear the traffic from here um the only thing that you
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hear now and i'm going to turn it off is as a day humidifier so now you you hear nothing and we are
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very close to um a quite hectic boulevard actually so i don't think i would have heard um the the
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shootings and the screams as you joked uh when i told you about it uh but it's true that after a while i
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heard motorbikes uh with uh sirens um you know wailing and uh but by then i was already aware that
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there was something because the way i discovered that so i finished my episode and it was about the
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time when um the football or soccer as you say a game um between france and germany ended so i went
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just to check the result and and i was surprised because as a result was only the you know the
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second entry on the website and so i checked the result but just above i saw that uh holand had
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been uh you know evacuated from the stadium and so i read an explosion and then there were very few
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details so i went on google news and then i discovered of course that it was much more than
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a few explosions at the stadium it was um you know it was huge but uh it's really where i learned about
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it and uh and actually as i mentioned in my piece uh what's quite puzzling is that uh when i went home
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and i walked by this uh concert uh room complex uh there were many people queuing and among these
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people it's obvious that uh there were people who were about to be killed uh because i think
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there were 1500 people and uh close to 100 were killed so uh it's um it could have it's hard to
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to say that but uh putin said that when there was a huge um um terrorist attack in um in an opera
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um years ago but it could have been worse actually yeah it could have been much worse much worse
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because uh it's only because i think i usually don't like law enforcement but uh law enforcement but i i have
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to say they did their job well because uh they managed to save maybe 90 percent of the people there
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i'm just curious what is the atmosphere like afterward i i might have mentioned this on a podcast before
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i was actually in new york city during 9 11 shortly after uh shortly after i graduated from college
00:05:05.000
actually um and i was actually i was in brooklyn to be exact i was actually working in this very large
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um very famous old building on atlantic avenue where i was doing an internship but anyway um
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it was a surreal environment because everyone was shocked and stunned and kind of numb and so it wasn't
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like everyone was running around screaming and shouting like a chicken with its head cut off or something
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which which i would have expected actually after something that dramatic happened within
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sight of of where i was working but uh but it wasn't it was kind of a a certain kind of numbness
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and and and certainly a kind of heightened awareness a lot of people in big cities are always you know
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they're either staring at their smartphone or they're staring down at their feet they're walking in a
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kind of pod where they're not connected but i i felt like everyone is in a way more aware
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um but what is it is it a similar uh situation in paris a kind of surreal
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situation where everyone's going about their everyday lives but then everything's changed
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you know it uh in a way so of course it reminded me of um the day after charlie hebdo but
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it reminded me much more of something very different um it's a day after jean-marie le pen managed to
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make it to the second round of the presidential election in 2002 the day after you could see
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people staring at each other you know the way uh did did they voted did they vote for him or
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things like that and i could see the same you know um faces were really closed and uh you could really
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see tension uh actually i'm so i this morning i had to uh to run an errand so i i went uh actually it
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made me um closer to one of the shooting one of the places where it happened um and you know i so i i
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went to this shop and everyone was uh you know extra polite and something very unnatural especially
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in paris you know paris has a you know deserved reputation of um being very annoying to people
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like you know waitresses uh who don't say hello or things like that and people were too polite for it
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to be true you know it was really really a kind of um yeah so real experiment and actually the only
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the only community that was you know untouched by uh the event was the chinese as usual you know it's
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uh maybe the comparison will sound harsh but they're like cockroaches after you know a nuclear meltdown
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it's uh you know nothing touches them they're just always the same and so of course um um white
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population they're just selling cheap plastic shit to each other and to tourists basically still like
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in chinatown and in new york city i would imagine oh they are all yeah they also sell a shitty food
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actually but uh no i'm kidding sometimes sometimes it's good when you don't ask what's inside um they've
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got to control the cat population in paris it would get out of hand a little more seriously um so the
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white population was uh quite moved um predictably but actually we could i could witness a few women
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crying on the street um but even for um muslims so arabs and blacks you know um
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uh there were really you know ilatis it's because i i don't want to sound pc but most of them don't agree
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with that that's not a reason for us to welcome them all of course it's not uh it's not a sufficient
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reason but but they don't want to to be associated with that but at the same time they don't want to
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look like traders and um and so yeah it was really you know i i didn't like that and um you know i
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when i think of my uh countryman i always think when i maybe it's pretentious but when i
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get on a bus sometimes i think i'm the only person having my ideas inside this bus on this bus and
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for example when i a few years ago i was commuting to a city actually one hour from paris and when i was
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reading medicine grant or lost rob stood out on the train i knew that i was the only person reading
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that you know so it it was even more sorry for me to you know to imagine that from a point of view that
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is different from most people uh actually just because i i don't have the same outlook uh so
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yeah actually i'm in a way i was glad i didn't have to have too much social interactions today because
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uh it's actually you know it's really uh annoyed me after charlie hebdo you know this kind of false
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emotion yeah but this time i have the feeling it's a bit different and uh it's um i think related to
00:11:01.440
the nature of the victims so i'm not saying that last time they deserved uh what happened to them
00:11:08.980
but at the very least um they had it coming you know they knew that it could happen and actually
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they you know they stood by it and that's why even if they were um people who are not on the same
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side as others uh they could be respected for that reason yeah they did show they they showed a
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certain kind of bravery and a uh yeah they stood stood by their convictions courage of their convictions
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much more than uh conservatives by the way yeah and and this time it was um you know just uh passers-by
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and you know people in restaurants or just listening to a concert so it touches people more and
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it's less symbolic but much more um you know well i thought there it was it fosters more anxiety
00:12:00.200
i thought i thought it was perhaps more symbolic um and and i i was thinking about these when you when
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you think about the symbolism of violence and certainly the world trade center and the pentagon on 9-11
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that clearly had a message to it it you know and it it wasn't just that they hate our freedoms
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but uh it it was a symbol it was it was an attack on global capitalism and it was attack on the united
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states overseas empire or there are basically the these were the world trade center and the pentagon
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were metaphors for those two things um and so and then that had certain ramifications as well uh you
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could think about you know an attack in the london tube was also scary about you know around four or
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five years later of of being kind of this everyday thing that people take for granted and then it
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became dangerous and that that's how that's in a way some of the most frightening thing you can imagine
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what i found interesting about this is that they were they were almost attacking uh westerners who
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were being passive and entertained it was it was almost i i was reminded uh and again i don't i'm not
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certainly not trying to make light of what happened um but i i think we should always just talk about
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these things seriously and i think there's often a kind of artistic quality to terrorism that's the
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right word i mean they they want to send a message it's not simply about killing people it's about
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shocking people and sending a message it reminded me in a way of the uh scene from the dark knight
00:13:30.300
rises where bane uh blows up a uh a football match american football this time yeah uh and uh so there's
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it's a kind of amazing scene where this person is running back it kicked off and the field is
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collapsing as he's running and and everyone there it's it's like they're they're destroying the
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spectacle of of of entertainment and and maybe vulgarity but also of community you know they're
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they're attacking the hometown team and it was a deeply symbolic uh scene in that film and it seems
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like this was the same way they were attacking a rock concert they were attacking a uh although they
00:14:08.520
they more or less failed to do this they were attacking a football match european football oh
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they completely failed actually they did for the football game yeah that could have been the
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worst because actually the um the stadium uh i don't know if you have been there but it's a very
00:14:25.500
symbolic one because it's the one where france organized the world cup in 98 and the only time that
00:14:32.340
france won actually you know it was a very you know for maybe six months it was a kind of a national
00:14:40.000
holiday uh because of course there was an ideological reason to that it was um which said um there was a
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term of the phrase black blamber which means basically um uh black white and arab and actually
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uh the team was two-thirds white so it was a lion there was only one arab out of um 22 players but
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he was the best one so uh it's zidane maybe uh the name rings a bell he's the one who scored the two
00:15:14.900
first goals in the final against uh brazil yeah and and so it was a symbolic one uh you know that
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it was it was this stadium which was a symbol of um post-racial and post-cultural france that was
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attacked but uh the security uh system there it's like an airport and so they didn't manage to to do
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it and uh the difference between um the dark night rises scene and uh this one the main one is that
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uh in the movie the mayor is um actually um he's killed in an explosion and this time
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as they managed to evacuate the president um who actually i noted that in my piece and uh i think it's
00:16:01.480
really important you know he was not threatened in any way but he left the stadium and uh he's a
00:16:08.940
commander in chief and you know a real a real commander wouldn't do that i don't think the
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goal would have left for example uh i know i think that's a symbolism as well it probably wasn't his
00:16:22.000
decision i'm sure at this point there's a protocol where he's i agree to be snatched but nevertheless
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i i think it it's still symbolic that he was you know he was evacuated and he didn't uh stay there
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and kind of uh as a commander i i think that is significant oh do you was there any symbolism to
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the um the attack on the restaurant that that one struck me as a little bit curious uh actually it's
00:16:48.000
just because you know it's different in america you don't really except maybe in brooklyn for that
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matter um you know this kind of big terraces uh actually the weather is very mild now it's like
00:17:03.120
last weekend it it was like spring and um and uh it's very convenient because there's a climate
00:17:10.700
conference upcoming um but so you have these big terraces in paris where people are eating and
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drinking and so it's very easy first to to kill many people just because you know you pass by with
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a scooter or a car and uh it's very easy to do that much more than in north america where
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restaurants are usually closed and you can't do that that easily but it's also symbolic because it's
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um you know the parisian way of life where you have all these um hipsters or
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uh this bourgeois bohens who are eating uh lavishly uh until maybe two or three a.m um on friday and
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saturday nights and that's also what they were attacking and of course as a rock band the rock
00:18:08.120
concert i mean it was actually a metal concert wasn't it actually the the band name is uh refers to
00:18:17.780
middle but then i i'm not an expert so i am right i asked friends who are and they say no it's more
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a rock band even if the name is uh related to middle and of course most of the fans uh were white
00:18:36.560
oh yeah most all another another very symbolic thing i'm sure the terrorists were aware of that
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and another symbolic thing is that um when they stormed the place the band was playing um a song
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called kiss the devil you know you know and that's why one of my first impressions when we started uh
00:19:02.360
you and i um you know text messaging is a videodrome you know the movie um from the the 80s where
00:19:10.480
you know there's a kind of a sideration produced by ultra violence which also exists of course in um
00:19:19.060
a clockwork orange where it's violence is so shocking that it almost becomes funny you know when you know
00:19:29.160
when they when they they beat this bum uh in the street uh at the very beginning of a clockwork orange
00:19:38.360
you know it's it's uh it's horrible but you know it's a very uh funny scene and that's why i cracked
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some jokes just because the sorority of it was uh almost funny in a kind of um you know manic way
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i'm still human i think it's important i mean obviously it's it's good to strike a balance but i think
00:20:05.060
it's important to actually crack a few jokes i think that's that's how we get through these things
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i don't think it means i felt guilty this morning when i i looked at my facebook profile and oh i did
00:20:17.380
i really post that uh you know i made jokes about uh about these things and of course my feeling this
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morning was very different and then it was more anger and uh actually you know after emotion you
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you start questioning when you're when your brain is well balanced you you start questioning why did
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it happen and of course we know why it happened it's uh it's related to to our foreign policy and
00:20:49.820
our immigration policy which are related to each other so yeah let's talk a little bit about i i think
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it is worth talking about the foreign policy aspects because i i think i i have um i i was actually
00:21:03.420
traveling myself while this happened and uh so i was um i was actually in a hotel room this morning
00:21:10.040
and um i was uh watching cnn for the first time in quite some time i usually don't watch these things it
00:21:17.980
seems like the these uh channels kind of flourish around emergencies where people are huddled around
00:21:23.320
getting updated information but um yeah i i think it i i what i one thing that i noticed among other
00:21:29.940
things was that there there was this just muddled very confused nature of of the foreign policy uh
00:21:36.560
causes or or at least the way the foreign policy has informed things and they they seem to be almost
00:21:42.620
blaming assad or something which is about as close to being backwards as you could get but anyway i i
00:21:50.000
and insensitive was also yeah it's it's it's i don't want to sound like uh you know uh a liberal
00:21:57.440
journalist uh talking about sensitivity but uh every day in syria things like that happen and not
00:22:04.080
because of hasad but uh of hasad but more uh in spite of hasad yeah he protects his people and
00:22:11.280
uh he's blamed for that so i i'm really this morning i was really angry about that too and uh asad say
00:22:19.120
the say that he says he said um france just lived what we've been living for five years now
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one thing i noticed i even saw a tweet from this uh horrible woman named ann marie slaughter who's
00:22:31.860
i believe the last time i paid attention to her was a while ago during the whole neocon
00:22:36.260
wars and um i i believe she was at princeton at the time despite her name she's uh uh of a certain
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ethnicity but uh she was saying that um she's polish now she was saying that uh she goes asad who created
00:22:55.600
isis and i was just kind of thinking like wow that is about as close to the reverse of as you can get
00:23:03.260
but i think her her interpretation effectively is that he he radicalized moderate rebels who were
00:23:11.020
trying to overthrow him by opposing rebels who were attempting to overthrow his regime which i think
00:23:17.880
uh pretty understandable for just about everyone else on earth but anyway so he's kind of to blame it's
00:23:24.300
almost like uh imagining racism as the cause of of black poverty and then and then saying
00:23:33.080
things like you know white crime in detroit is getting out of control it just it's just weird
00:23:40.440
you know interpretation of an interpretation and uh you know i don't know i just these people
00:23:47.740
are just they must be aware of it i don't know maybe they're not aware of it you know the greatest
00:23:51.800
i don't think so the greatest con men believe their own con you know no really because um
00:23:57.800
the french media one of the very first reflexes was to um actually say of course we shouldn't blame
00:24:07.000
muslims that's and not only the media actually the politicians too so you know the corpses are still
00:24:13.440
warm and they are all already saying that which is really you know there should be there should be
00:24:20.020
trials in a healthy country against that so they say that and then uh they are uh you know compiling
00:24:28.660
all the reactions by a right-wing or far-right as they say politicians you know against islam or
00:24:37.520
for immigration restriction that was there you know this morning they were already um publishing
00:24:45.140
articles like that and i really think that you know they think that when they say that of course
00:24:51.020
it's uh asad who is to blame and um and that uh uh this kind of event uh urges us to fight racism
00:25:01.560
even more because it's a root cause of all that they really mean it and that's why they they will have
00:25:08.820
to be dealt with i won't say more but uh they will they will have to be dealt with at some point
00:25:15.080
yeah i agree i i there there is that kind of i'm reminded of uh at least stories of that i hear of
00:25:22.060
of marxist intellectuals both in the soviet union and in the west or in america uh who you know at the
00:25:29.220
very end of the regime we're talking about you know there are these residual capitalist elements uh
00:25:35.360
within the soviet sphere and that that's the reason why it looks like it's failing it's this
00:25:39.940
kind of you know we need to double down on socialism you know it's just this uh very it's a i guess a
00:25:45.400
very predictable human mentality uh that when something is is obviously failing you you you you
00:25:52.460
you double down on it you you embrace it in a relationship yeah like in a relationship sadly
00:25:57.720
uh it's it is kind of like a the abused spouse uh either male or female yeah who loves his or her
00:26:05.780
partner even more uh after being drug through the mud um yeah i i i that is definitely what's happening
00:26:14.460
uh yeah what i was let's go into that because i i think there's a couple things happening i i think
00:26:20.620
this is different than charlie hebdo i think that was almost a there was an easy response to that and
00:26:27.140
that was we knew we need to embrace free speech and all these people like angela miracle who
00:26:33.980
does not embrace free speech she has actually imprisoned people for writing things that she
00:26:40.240
feels should not be written um on basically effectively revisions of the second world war
00:26:46.420
whether these are right or wrong the fact is she imprisons people for writing things so the notion
00:26:52.260
that angela merkel was going to march on behalf of free speech is grotesque to say the least uh
00:26:58.920
with jacob zuma and netanyahu which was even more grotesque yeah right when you know their policies
00:27:06.100
yeah um so but so that was the message that and and the establishment was very very good of doing
00:27:13.260
that i i think it's going to be a little bit harder this time i think everyone is on no meme so far
00:27:18.940
yeah you don't you don't have a just you charlie or something like that you have a more it's not
00:27:25.420
quite spontaneous because the media has maybe not created these memes but you know the candles and
00:27:32.880
but candles is universal or almost universal um but this time it's more bottom-up i don't want to sound
00:27:41.800
like a libertarian but there's a healthy element in the fact that um you know people on the you know
00:27:49.340
the basis are taking over this kind of things and uh it's less like a colored revolution or something
00:27:56.900
that is obviously manufactured uh to the masses it's more you know the masses were attacked
00:28:03.540
yesterday evening and it's just that um there's no there's no response to uh to their pain i mean
00:28:13.640
you know holand said something like uh he said we are going to close the border and so i posted on
00:28:22.140
facebook um you know a table with figures of uh legal immigration uh since uh the 19th the 90s and i said
00:28:31.400
okay um so the 200 000 immigrants coming each year are going to stop uh and you know 200 000
00:28:40.240
immigrants in france is about uh the equivalent of uh one million in the u.s which i believe is a
00:28:46.480
figure yes every year from mexico and neighboring countries so this time it is different because they
00:28:55.260
really it's really harder for them to to manage it and the other thing also is that you know it's
00:29:03.260
it's the second time this year and not only the second actually because there was a failed attack in
00:29:11.040
you know on the train between holland and france last summer and there were all also minor attacks
00:29:20.720
with a few persons killed so it's harder and harder for them to say okay let's not blame anyone and
00:29:29.220
let's fight racism which is uh the obvious enemy i mean uh i think it's lincoln who said that
00:29:36.760
who said that you you can lie one time to a thousand persons and a thousand times to one person but you
00:29:46.280
can't lie a thousand times to a thousand persons and that's what they are attempting to do but uh
00:29:54.620
but it won't work and uh i think we should also mention the elections which are upcoming because it's
00:30:02.500
very uh relevant to the issue yeah i i'm just gonna mention i it seems like whenever these kinds of
00:30:10.180
disasters occur um they they often do benefit this the establishment and um and and also i would also
00:30:17.740
mention that whenever these occur there are a lot of people who think oh it's a it's a false flag
00:30:21.860
i'm kind of doing an i'm doing an alex jones impression there i just when i was thinking about
00:30:26.860
this i've just looked on info wars that alex jones is almost disappointing me over the last few years
00:30:31.660
he's become like a conservative basically and he doesn't do all that wild nonsense that used to be so
00:30:38.800
entertaining he's kind of boring now he's he's just take anyway uh but alex jones the of yesteryear
00:30:45.480
i i guarantee you would have declared that this was a false flag and it can't be believed and whatever
00:30:50.740
and okay sure that's a possibility five minutes right that's a that's that's possible that's within
00:30:56.080
the realm of possibilities okay but i don't think it it was because i think this is actually this is
00:31:01.900
kind of getting out of hand i don't think you can easily just say this is why we support you know
00:31:06.880
vulgar cartoonists in their free speech i i think this kind of attack particularly after everyone
00:31:12.100
is on edge due to the refugee crisis and all these just images from that and just everything that's
00:31:18.640
going on i i don't think this supports the establishment at all i think this is something
00:31:22.540
very different and i i think i don't know maybe i'm being optimistic uh so to speak but i don't you
00:31:30.920
know which is it's difficult to be optimistic when you have something this terrible happen but
00:31:35.440
nevertheless um i i don't i don't think so i i think this is actually going to uh i think this
00:31:42.680
is going to be understood very differently from a lot of people uh i think i think it has a potential
00:31:48.200
to be a real awakening um and uh yeah i'll just i'll just kind of leave it at that i don't know how
00:31:54.740
once it could be um because it's just it it is like yeah i i it's it doesn't fit any other script
00:32:03.320
outside of this just isn't going to work you know we can't do this we can't have these refugees we
00:32:09.700
can't have these legal immigrants who are citizens it's just not going to work it's going to end in
00:32:14.920
blood and tears and i think i don't know how you can interpret it in some other way i think for
00:32:19.620
a lot of normal people that's going to be the message even if you have a lot of people doubling
00:32:24.020
down and and it does support the establishment because the establishment gets to act tough because
00:32:28.500
i remember on cnn you you'll hear a lot of you know talk from even holand and and uh
00:32:36.320
sarkozy was supporting him from the from the right so to speak quote unquote scare quotes but
00:32:42.600
they'll say like we will be ruthless we will have no mercy i think he actually said without mercy
00:32:47.720
they'll go after him and i think that's probably true i mean i think they're going to go after
00:32:51.140
uh anyone involved uh really hard um and so they can seem tough in a way but i don't think that's
00:32:58.200
going to fully work i think this this narrative is going to get out of hand with this one yeah i agree
00:33:05.020
actually um you know propaganda is just a branch of communication and marketing and there's a law of
00:33:12.460
diminishing returns you know when you always broadcast the same ad eventually you don't get
00:33:18.980
any sales and it's the same thing here and they lack um in imagination because their software their
00:33:26.520
intellectual and ideological software is just outdated so you know um the mayor of paris um
00:33:33.440
uh the shimer or the mares uh say that uh you know it's um shimer yeah like the she wolf of the
00:33:43.600
the the ss um she says that it was a diverse paris that was attacked and when you look at the pictures
00:33:51.100
it's okay maybe there are a few uh black tokens uh there always is like in a sitcom you know okay
00:33:59.980
maybe at the at the rock concert there was a black homosexual and an arab lesbian okay granted but
00:34:08.720
you know it is a propaganda doesn't work because it's just you know people have been hearing that and
00:34:16.880
um maybe to maybe to balance what what i've just said uh it's true that people have a very short
00:34:26.600
memory especially today with uh all the solicitation from the media and uh and the social media but
00:34:34.740
still and of course i love these uh interviews uh done by this libertarian who go to people and say
00:34:40.800
you know and ask um why um against whom did we fight in um 1776 you know in america and it's very
00:34:52.340
very funny yeah exactly and uh actually there was you know um in 2012 there was um a series of
00:35:00.960
shootings in france with a muslim again uh shooting um french soldiers um and um jews actually and uh
00:35:11.480
you know after charlie abdo i asked a question on facebook and my facebook friends are
00:35:16.980
most of the time right wing or far right and they are very politicized but i i just asked
00:35:26.100
uh the month and the year uh when it occurred and actually many people had to look the web to look up
00:35:33.440
the web to answer me and uh and they were not representative of the people so it's true that
00:35:39.560
people are tend to be amnesiac and propaganda works on them but not um you know every month because now
00:35:49.760
it's really and it's not gonna stop actually you know because uh what was discovered yesterday is that
00:35:56.640
uh when uh one of the shooters was um a so-called syrian refugee so the millions that
00:36:05.860
uh merkel has just accepted okay most of them are not terrorists uh nobody ever said that because
00:36:13.420
you know the left is always uh you know attacking the right thing oh you say that no nobody says that
00:36:19.860
not even the far right nobody says that but maybe out of the million it's very likely that there are
00:36:27.780
maybe one thousand and it's enough to uh really bring turmoil and strife to a whole continent actually
00:36:36.480
especially with um open borders it's another topic but um so i don't think the propaganda will work
00:36:45.800
and why i wanted to bring the election is that um so next month there are regional elections
00:36:53.700
uh and it's very likely that uh marie le pen will win um the northern region and um
00:37:02.020
um marion maréchal le pen so her niece is going to win the southeast it's it's very likely actually and
00:37:10.960
even in the other regions they are going to win a lot of seats a lot of seats um and uh of course
00:37:20.440
uh the establishment is very concerned about it and they have no real answer not even the
00:37:28.020
mainstream right uh because usually that was uh sarkozy you know his role was to counter the far
00:37:35.860
right with a few uh race bait jokes and and that was it but it doesn't work again propaganda doesn't
00:37:43.980
work and the national front is going to win regions and one of the first reactions this
00:37:50.240
morning of a left-leaning newspaper i was to say um uh the worst thing that could happen is that it
00:37:59.680
would give more regions to the national front and i'm sure now you're reminded of a book that was
00:38:07.240
published the same day as the charlie hebdo shooting yeah you know submission by michelle welbeck
00:38:13.660
because it's exactly what happens well you know as it as it happens i'm actually i i sketched out a
00:38:19.340
quick blog i was gonna i'll post this the next day or so but uh as it happened uh i i just got the
00:38:25.060
kindle version so like a decade a good western decadent i was on a plane with my ipad reading
00:38:31.540
submission uh quite literally while the attacks were occurring uh so there's there was there's
00:38:39.220
something going on uh but yeah yeah go ahead it's i actually i would mention i i'm it's a very
00:38:45.040
and a very intriguing book i i'm just a yeah it's not it's not his best one it's not his best one
00:38:52.200
especially the style is uh you know there's never really a style with welbeck because his style
00:38:57.820
is supposed to illustrate the emptiness of the west but it's a kind of style in itself like celine
00:39:05.840
uh wrote um allegedly like uh you know a working class guy but uh everybody who tried to imitate him
00:39:13.820
uh failed uh so welbeck as a style but this time it was quite disappointing um in that field but uh
00:39:23.320
it was really the visionary aspect because uh he wrote and some people on the right on the
00:39:31.440
respectable right said that it was nonsense that um the mainstream right would support a muslim
00:39:39.280
uh from the muslim brotherhood against marine le pen but when you look at the actual reactions
00:39:45.340
when something important like what happened yesterday occurs you see that welbeck is completely spot on
00:39:53.240
because um their first first reactions say okay no racism no xenophobia and of course no national
00:40:03.020
front you know it's they're really concerned about that so for them it's more important that
00:40:08.520
national front doesn't win three or four regions instead of two than the 150 odd bodies that are
00:40:19.140
rotting away in a morgue i mean you know it's obvious between between us to say that because
00:40:26.280
we've been used to it but for many people i think they're really like how hard bills are really gonna get
00:40:34.440
mad uh on the election day and um and so before i i stop speaking um you know i've been very critical of
00:40:46.980
this party uh i won't be able to vote because i'm still registered in montreal and i didn't do the
00:40:55.360
paperwork when i had to so i i will have to wait one more year to vote in paris but so but my vote
00:41:03.700
will be canceled by uh you know uh the guy afflicted with down syndrome so i've never been a
00:41:12.820
a great fan of democracy but i think this election you know i don't like this party and i don't like
00:41:21.480
its leadership especially since uh uh what you know she did to her own father and she expelled him
00:41:29.700
you know from the party he founded he gave her everything and she thanked him by expelling him so
00:41:36.680
um i don't like them but i think it's important this time uh that people vote for them
00:41:44.300
because this party is useless in itself but it will send a message and um so it's similar to trump i i
00:41:52.800
think both you exactly i again i um trump i i think probably would be a better leader but i i think it
00:42:00.140
is his his movement is is is a little it's a backward-looking movement and i and i think also
00:42:05.840
just this um this kind of over promising he's going to negotiate a uh the west out of its nihilistic
00:42:13.520
spirals a bit much but uh nevertheless i i think it does send a message and i think it's symbolic
00:42:20.180
value is is is in donald's words huge uh so yes vote trump vote uh vote uh for marine le pen yeah
00:42:31.260
yeah um as i said yeah that said we you know it's a kind of emergency emergency measure that i i agree
00:42:43.220
with but what oftentimes uh you know alternative rights writers or activists or speakers forget
00:42:52.060
is that uh we are supposed to pull the politicians to our side and uh that doesn't mean we don't have
00:43:00.360
to be supportive when they like orban when he does something which is you know sound and right and good
00:43:07.140
but if we are always clapping when they do or most of the time they say something that that is
00:43:16.340
supposedly good uh you know it won't work and we just have to look at the far left how they they
00:43:23.940
operate i mean you know the trotskyites uh you can't imagine a smaller movement achieving uh such a big
00:43:34.060
success yeah uh you know they managed to overturn many social democratic parties in europe especially
00:43:41.980
in france actually and and in britain of course um with maybe you know sometimes it was just 10 people
00:43:51.660
in a in a room uh but they were so dedicated to uh pulling the um center left to the far left that uh
00:44:01.260
you know they were always criticizing the left for not being left-wing enough and oftentimes on the
00:44:08.480
right you know because we were mentioning uh game and uh uh sex relationships but it's like
00:44:17.160
you know right-wing people are like um guys who say oh i don't care about this girl but the
00:44:23.660
minute or the second rather uh when uh as a girl calls them you know they will rush to their phone
00:44:31.120
and say it's you and it's exactly the way they react you know it's oh um so in 2014 it was
00:44:39.480
oh we don't care about elections you know we are we are riding the tiger and uh you know going beyond
00:44:46.900
the caliuga and such things um and and then trump appeared and suddenly elections matter and democracy
00:44:55.900
is good etc it's the same thing of course with uh the loud stockbroker i was mentioning um you know
00:45:05.280
in britain and uh of course with a main open in france um uh but the result of that is they are not
00:45:14.240
pulling uh these politicians in the right direction and uh it's less true for trump but for ukip and
00:45:22.440
marine lupin is it's certainly the case they've been drifting leftward instead of rightward and
00:45:30.700
it's also because they we have to be insanely critical because that's that's that's how you
00:45:38.560
force people over to a side you're not really going to force them by clapping your hands being
00:45:43.980
oh good job i know you're trying hard you didn't achieve anything but oh you're trying hard i give
00:45:48.860
you the benefit of the doubt no we're not gonna get them that way you have to be attacking them
00:45:52.900
uh so i i i totally agree even orban actually oh especially i'm not talking about the conference
00:46:00.900
of course but um uh you know uh there's a blog uh you know ted salis uh you know yeah sure
00:46:07.820
egi is oftentimes very critical of the movement sometimes a bit too much but i think i totally he's
00:46:16.240
too critical sometimes where i i think but i'm glad he's doing it because sometimes when you go
00:46:21.720
overboard you get it's sometimes necessary and he he nicknamed orban um uh chicken way offense orban
00:46:32.180
or something like that because you know there were all these uh videos on facebook of um uh so-called
00:46:39.580
migrants uh you know escalating the um as a wire um eventually uh orban managed to to put a real
00:46:49.280
border fence and now um now there are no um entries in hungary illegal ones so but it's also because
00:46:59.840
um you know the hungarians have been expecting something from him and not just speeches and that's
00:47:08.620
why it worked because i don't think well orban is less bad than uh obviously than all the european
00:47:16.180
politicians oh yeah but but he looks a bit cynical to me and he's a kind if no one had forced him
00:47:24.440
he would have gone with the flow like many other ones i think that's probably true and i i think also
00:47:30.800
he's just in a way kind of he's in a way a kind of tragic figure like he's he's caught in a system
00:47:38.300
where he can't actually stand for europe because he he's he's unlike yabik who's who's made insane
00:47:45.520
totally insane statements and horrible statements he's actually when you when you listen to what
00:47:51.480
orban says ideologically it's actually quite sound he'll say things like what is europe does europe even
00:47:58.960
exist if we're going to be europe we must do this like he he seems to have a a sense it reminds me kind
00:48:03.840
of donald trump saying is this a nation he'll he'll he asked that question in his uh immigration uh
00:48:09.720
policy paper which is you know these are all great things to to even ask that question he's he's asking
00:48:14.860
the right question and that's half the battle um he's not asking some little tactical thing uh you
00:48:21.220
know did did they fill out all their paperwork uh correctly before entering this uh uh boundary space
00:48:28.460
that is known as europe on a map like he didn't ask that question he he asked a real question like
00:48:34.240
you know what is europe is does it have a history and a meaning and a being so i think in terms of a
00:48:39.600
lot of what he says i he or victor orban sounds quite sound to me uh we should have invited him to
00:48:46.080
become who we are yeah well i i'm willing to make up with victor orban i've said this explicitly
00:48:51.940
we have a beer summit i will probably forgive the man i'm i know he's uh he really wants that but
00:48:59.660
anyway uh yeah no i i think he is he is clearly the best european politician you know there's not
00:49:06.360
much competition we're talking about people who are you know not not only are they bad they're they're
00:49:11.760
like even worse than i would imagine that they've they've like drunk the poison of nihilism and they
00:49:18.020
like it like you know angela merkel uh but so he he is he is a lot better uh but i think he's kind
00:49:24.020
of caught in a system where he can't really do anything i mean the fact that he built a corridor
00:49:28.420
into germany i think just expresses this problem where it's kind of like okay i get it i understand
00:49:34.300
you don't want your country that you are in ruling hypothetically to be overrun and therefore you
00:49:42.320
you create this corridor but in some ways just the fact that he does that expresses the the tragedy of
00:49:47.700
the whole thing i i would say sometimes i'll say things like this to conservatives and they'll
00:49:52.820
they'll be like well but don't you support him he's easy you know it's like they they have to support
00:49:58.080
you know it's like you have to be on a team it's like it's the cowboys versus the redskins we're
00:50:04.440
cowboys fans you know it's like no we're it's not it's not what it is um so yeah i i i get that a lot
00:50:11.860
but um yeah uh it's just uh again i just to bring this back because we're kind of on a digression as
00:50:17.940
we often get on um i again i i think this this event uh might actually be a terrible thing that
00:50:25.200
gives birth to something good and and and that is i just it seems like this is just going to wake up
00:50:30.960
people uh across the continent that this is just not working like there's not it's not going to be
00:50:36.960
okay you can't go to your discotheque and forget about it all you can't go to your rock concert you
00:50:43.500
can't go watch mass sports and it's all going to be okay it's all you know this is going to work out
00:50:50.420
it might seem bad now it's all going to work out you can't really think that i mean i i think you see
00:50:54.860
this and you just you grasp it no this is not going to work out this is going to become terrible
00:50:59.060
and we're now kind of drowning in entertainment and mindless spectacle but uh you know that that's that's a
00:51:06.400
kind of calm before the storm of really serious racial and and to a degree religious conflict
00:51:13.900
but but it's really a kind of racial and civilizational conflict i think more than anything
00:51:18.260
it's not it's not doctrinal it really is a a kind of it's it's a sense of invaders wanting to tell
00:51:25.520
people who's boss and i i think most westerners have gotten to a point where we don't we all like
00:51:31.760
there is no boss like we're just all you know we're all everyone's the boss or no one is or
00:51:37.780
something you know whatever kind of liberal fantasies we have but i think they're they're
00:51:41.620
kind of used to that idea of telling someone who's boss and sometimes they have to they have
00:51:46.300
to use spectacular violence to show that they're boss and um so yeah i i think this is you know again
00:51:53.100
i i think this kind of thing has the potential to really awaken people but you know many people on
00:51:59.320
the far right um uh you know they make fun of uh i i you know i'm not uh you know i i'm not accusing
00:52:07.380
anyone it's more things that i see on on the web and on the french web um uh for this case especially
00:52:14.580
after charlie hebdo you know they made fun and i i was part of it i made um you know uh with a friend
00:52:21.280
with photoshop we made um just charlie meme with you know the um the bears with hearts and uh with
00:52:29.420
all the colors i forgot the name i forget the name but uh you know this yeah as a care bears and uh
00:52:37.720
with uh just charlie uh sign and so i i did this kind of things and i of course it was very funny to do
00:52:45.360
that um but i think the popular reaction is quite healthy actually and i i've been pleasantly surprised
00:52:54.620
and usually you know i'm i'm on the short term at least i'm pessimistic i'm more optimistic on the
00:53:02.600
long run but even on the short run i you know uh if you compare to um the bombings in madrid in 2004
00:53:11.540
and london in 2005 the reaction here now is much more healthy i mean you really have maybe it's just
00:53:20.240
on facebook or twitter or just on the street for now but people say we want uh you know isis is not
00:53:29.800
both here and uh and when you you know what happened after um you know the madrid bombing um
00:53:38.460
uh 11 years ago they blamed first the basques which was really you know it's uh even more stupid
00:53:47.000
than blaming assad actually uh like it's it's like uh if you were blaming i don't know i don't have
00:53:56.400
an american maybe quebec you know it blaming quebec for you know it doesn't make sense so that was the
00:54:03.240
first reaction of the elite and then they blamed the conservative government but uh
00:54:10.220
interesting the demonstrations were for peace yeah and i don't buy conspiracy theories for a very
00:54:17.800
simple reason is that you know for 14 centuries uh islam uh didn't need mossad and cia and
00:54:26.860
bilderberg to you know invade europe you know it's just in there it's just in islam's nature yeah
00:54:34.640
and actually it's in every civilization's nature to you know be expensive and uh try to dominate
00:54:41.860
others uh it's uh it's natural uh what's not natural is uh or elite's reaction to it but uh so you don't
00:54:51.480
need you know a kind of um a rothschild illuminati shadow meeting to to do that it's just uh you know
00:55:02.200
islam wants to take over europe not only spain and you know the parts that used to be muslim but uh
00:55:10.120
all of it and um and all the the shadow arrangements are just going to be consequences of that you know
00:55:19.200
with politicians uh selling their countries and continent just for short-term gains but
00:55:26.760
it's a it's a consequence it's not the moving uh factor here the moving factor is um islam's
00:55:35.180
awakening as it was prophesied by lost rob stoddard maybe one century ago and uh which has of course
00:55:42.500
demographic and economic consequences and uh so so that's why um it's a very primal conflict and
00:55:53.260
you know i maybe it will all fade away but i don't think it will because there will be other attacks
00:56:00.360
but i think on a very you know basic level even simple people get that yeah it's a primal and
00:56:10.840
existential conflict and not just um okay um free gaza and we'll leave you alone no i'm not gonna do
00:56:19.560
that you know even if we even if we give them what they want in the middle east actually they will ask
00:56:27.520
more of of you know because they will it will reek with weakness and they will sense it and uh try to
00:56:35.980
to get more of the bargain so so i think people get it and maybe i will be you know uh proven wrong in
00:56:48.160
the months to come but um you know many experts in france have said that uh it's gonna be like every
00:56:57.600
month now something like that so well i think there's a question i don't think uh i either you or i have an
00:57:04.800
answer to this but the clearly there's a kind of coordination that's going on that is beyond my
00:57:12.460
imagination previously there must have i mean to to pull off an attacks like this i mean there needs
00:57:19.140
to this is not you don't just call up people and say let's go do this tomorrow or something i mean
00:57:23.340
this was this was highly coordinated uh there might have been a significance to friday the 13th
00:57:28.440
uh but so you know is planned well in advance but this is highly coordinated there there has to be
00:57:33.620
logistics there has to be someone in charge and so on and so forth and um i i so i i kind of agree
00:57:40.060
with uh olan saying this is an act of war i mean this this might be something uh that does every every
00:57:47.540
month there's going to be some new uh attack it is kind of questionable i mean it gets back to this
00:57:53.720
foreign policy question of what is it is it is it is it purely civilizational is it kind of a way to
00:58:00.520
teach you this is the top you know we're top dog here uh i i i can't really i don't think you can
00:58:07.160
really explain it fully with with foreign policy i i think that's a that's a necessary just a part of
00:58:13.180
it yeah it's it's a necessary but insufficient um cause um you know but or it might even be a
00:58:20.280
catalyst and not a cause but you know anyway we i don't want to get into the weeds it's more it's
00:58:25.900
more the justification yeah it might be a justification they don't bring palestine palestine
00:58:31.460
that much now because um they've never really cared about it actually uh if they had cared about it
00:58:40.280
and i know when i say such things that people are going to yell zionist or but you know um the
00:58:48.900
neighboring arab countries have done everything they could to leave palestinians in misery and uh
00:58:56.260
and actually uh europe and america help palestinians more than the arab countries which is
00:59:03.020
quite surprising to say the least so i they are not going to bring this case that much and it's more
00:59:11.300
you know like an old left uh topic palestine it's more about um um the more recent uh iraq afghanistan and
00:59:21.380
syria and libya wars yeah and um it's a mere justification because at first they were helped by the west
00:59:31.220
and we haven't mentioned that and and we should uh most of the guys who come to the west to
00:59:38.500
uh do these things that have been armed and funded and sometimes trained by the west oh absolutely
00:59:45.300
um by the west i'm i'm talking like uh manuel oxon writer by uh the ruling class uh that we suffer
00:59:53.940
under it's not us we we should reclaim what we are and and so it's a mere justification to make it more
01:00:03.460
acceptable but um you know people less and less bait you know when there was um um two years and a half
01:00:13.300
ago in london the um these british soldiers soldiers that was beheaded by two um nigerian converts uh
01:00:22.660
they said you know in front of a smartphone things like uh um leave our countries and you will be uh left
01:00:30.580
alone and maybe that could work a few years ago but now that you have um hundreds of people who are
01:00:40.740
shot like chicken in the street uh i don't think you know this justification will fade and they're just
01:00:50.820
going to say okay we just want to dominate you and isis is more honest about it than uh previous muslim uh
01:00:59.700
muslim groups actually because there was still um marxist rhetorics in uh maybe not in al-qaeda but
01:01:08.740
in all the um former you know uh hamas and hezbollah and all these movements
01:01:17.860
you know there was a kind of um anti-colonial and maybe egalitarian on on the world level
01:01:26.500
that doesn't exist now i mean isis trade slaves they
01:01:32.580
um they don't they don't even pretend they care about equality and human rights right just say okay
01:01:39.940
we are going to apply the sharia law and and that's it and uh and in a way i prefer that
01:01:48.100
uh because it's uh it's much easier to show people what they really are than um you know
01:01:57.940
the palestine movement was more uh able to tap in western sensitivity sensibilities like uh you know
01:02:08.260
pictures of children uh it still exists today of course but when you see images of isis it's more
01:02:16.020
okay we are going to take your wives and uh trade them like slaves and uh treat them like um
01:02:24.580
comebacks uh so it's more honest and it's going to be more easy to to counter it i agree i think we
01:02:35.540
need a different uh a different establishment and a different elite to counter it uh but roman let's uh
01:02:41.940
let's put a bookmark in this uh i i think we could probably go for another hour but let's let's just
01:02:46.500
save it actually why don't we actually maybe revisit this uh soon because the thing is i'm gonna i'm
01:02:53.300
gonna work and edit this really quickly and get it up but i i think events are going to uh uh are
01:02:59.300
going to change so i think they're going to change within a week we're going to learn more
01:03:03.220
and there's going to be new things to talk about so uh let's do it again uh but thank you ramal