RadixJournal - Britain Prevails

00:00:00.000 The Prime Minister personally has come out of the Scottish referendum very badly,

00:00:05.700 although I must say that the unionist side won that referendum by a convincing majority,

00:00:13.240 and a significantly bigger majority than had been expected.

00:00:17.940 The Scottish nationalists have gotten themselves into a state of great excitement.

00:00:23.320 In the end, there are 32 electoral districts in Scotland, 28 of which voted no.

00:00:28.700 That is a pretty resounding victory, it really is.

00:00:34.760 Strictly speaking about percentages, when you think about almost half of the country wants to form a new nation,

00:00:42.540 that is very high.

00:00:44.920 It is, but another way of looking at it is that more than half didn't.

00:00:50.040 It's a strange view. There are many strange things about this referendum.

00:00:53.520 For example, the pro-independence side took the view that if they won by one vote,

00:00:59.760 and that was good enough, that was a conclusive indication that the Scottish people wanted independence.

00:01:05.620 There could, of course, be no question of any rerun at any future point of this referendum.

00:01:10.220 If they won, they won, and that was that.

00:01:12.240 They lost by a much bigger margin than anyone had anticipated.

00:01:17.120 But from their point of view, apparently, it's not the end of the process.

00:01:20.760 So it's a very, very strange approach.

00:01:24.740 You press for a referendum, you lose it.

00:01:28.040 You lose it by far more votes than you were expecting to lose it.

00:01:32.100 But somehow that isn't final and definitive.

00:01:34.540 Whereas if you had won, even by a solitary vote, that would have been a clear mandate to implement radical constitutional change.

00:01:45.380 That is a very, very strange view.

00:01:48.020 Well, I think, Adrian, I think you're touching on something called human nature.

00:01:52.240 Yeah.

00:01:53.180 We like to have it both ways very often.

00:01:57.400 Yes.

00:01:58.260 I hails, tails I win, heads you lose.

00:02:01.160 Yeah, I certainly think so.

00:02:04.520 I think that the outcome of the referendum has plainly been a big disappointment to the advocates of independence.

00:02:17.200 Right.

00:02:17.560 And they're going to find it extremely difficult to come to terms with that.

00:02:21.800 Well, do you think that this would launch a new independent movements?

00:02:29.700 Or do you think that this will actually be seen as a definitive loss?

00:02:34.000 Because I think it could go both ways.

00:02:37.340 Because granted, the yes, Scottish independence people, they simply lost this referendum.

00:02:45.800 But, I mean, you could say this is a moral victory.

00:02:47.840 The fact that this vote is even taking place is a major victory.

00:02:51.540 I mean, the idea of a vote like this occurring in the United States or plenty of other places, it's really unthinkable.

00:02:59.560 I don't think the political class would allow it.

00:03:02.000 So, I mean, it is a moral victory to a certain extent.

00:03:05.160 That's one way of looking at it.

00:03:06.640 Another way of looking at it is that it shows the stability of British political institutions, that our government was prepared to allow this to happen.

00:03:15.120 There's a very, very good comparison floating about in Europe at the moment.

00:03:19.540 The regional government of Catalonia is going to hold a referendum on Catalan independence from Spain in a few weeks' time.

00:03:27.620 The Spanish central government has forbidden them to do so, declared that the referendum is illegal and is going to get the Spanish Constitutional Court to issue some kind of injunction of forbidding it.

00:03:38.980 Right.

00:03:39.560 So, that is perhaps an indication of the relative stability of British and Spanish political institutions.

00:03:45.800 Spanish political institutions in their present form only date back to 1975.

00:03:49.820 Ours date back to 1689, more or less.

00:03:51.980 And it tells you something about the difference between England or the United Kingdom and many other countries that no one had any concerns that this was all going to end up in bloodshed or anything of the kind.

00:04:10.560 The worst that's happened, and this is regarded as shocking, is a punch-up between pro- and anti-independence supporters in Glasgow in which a few punches were thrown.

00:04:20.120 Compared to, say, the war between the states or the Spanish civil war, this is not serious stuff.

00:04:26.580 Compared even to what's going on in the Ukraine at the moment, it's not serious stuff.

00:04:31.420 The last country that broke up peacefully without a drop of blood being shed was, of course, the former Czechoslovakia, which separated into the Czech and Slovak republics peacefully.

00:04:42.300 But that was very much against the trend in Eastern Europe, where the dissolution, for example, of the former Yugoslavia was very bloody.

00:04:48.800 And now, although the Ukraine separated peacefully, relatively peacefully from the former Soviet Union, now it is steeped in inter... 0.97

00:04:59.520 Well, I won't call it ethnic, because there's not really very much ethnic difference between the two peoples, disputes between the two nationalities that are being resolved by armed force.

00:05:09.500 So, yeah, I think that the perspective which people have upon the Scottish referendum brought is very different from the perspective here.

00:05:19.900 I read Greg Johnson's article on his website about this subject, and indeed I must post up some comments about that,

00:05:28.940 because I think, for example, that really, in some respects, had the wrong end of the stick badly.

00:05:34.480 The view, for example, that the English have some desire to lord it over the Scots or rule Scotland as some kind of colonial empire is a preposterous American perspective that shows no understanding of the political realities of the United Kingdom.

00:05:51.240 On the contrary, rather as you may recall the Canadians, or rather the Quebecois, had a referendum for independence from Canada.

00:05:59.960 And it was said only half-humorously at the time, and by some people perhaps in all seriousness,

00:06:07.860 that if there had been a referendum in the other Canadian provinces to expel Quebec,

00:06:13.160 they would have voted to do it, because they were sick of the Quebecois,

00:06:18.300 who were a constant drain on the finances of the Canadian Federation, and constantly bitching about it.

00:06:25.880 But there is certainly a strand of thought in England, with which I don't agree, because I'm a unionist myself,

00:06:32.520 but which I understand, that took the point of view that not only, as Jefferson Davis once put it,

00:06:39.820 let the Ehring sisters go, but in this case, give them a boot to encourage them on their way. 1.00

00:06:45.780 And it is certainly not the case, I think, that most people in England were passionately anxious to hold on to Scotland.

00:06:57.260 The circumstances in which the union was created in 1707 were very different from those in the modern world.

00:07:02.680 There were times where there were constant threats of French invasion, France was leading power in Europe,

00:07:08.800 it was felt that it was necessary to keep a firm hold of both Scotland and Ireland.

00:07:15.060 Not, as I say, for the purpose of exercising some kind of hegemony over those countries,

00:07:19.240 but for fear that they'd be used as the base of the French invasion of England.

00:07:23.020 This sort of thing, obviously, belongs to a very distant past now.

00:07:28.340 And we live in a very different world, in which, had Scotland separated,

00:07:35.840 I think it would have become an independent country, much on the model of the Irish Republic.

00:07:43.180 That's to say, it would have been a relative backwater,

00:07:47.060 which would have suffered from all the problems that Ireland has suffered from since independence.

00:07:52.180 Those are, above all, a brain drain of the youngest, most talented, most ambitious people

00:07:57.600 who all leave the country and go abroad.

00:08:00.480 Famously, New York City, as well as London, and these days,

00:08:04.100 Sydney and Melbourne and Australia are full of young Irish people who've gone there

00:08:08.900 because they can't find work at decent wages in Ireland.

00:08:12.940 It has, Ireland has the misfortunate way of having an excellent educational system

00:08:18.280 which produces highly qualified young people for who they know jobs in their native countries,

00:08:22.320 so they all go abroad.

00:08:23.720 Scotland would have suffered from exactly the same problem.

00:08:26.040 It has first-class universities and a very well-educated population.

00:08:30.120 Scots have always come to England in large numbers.

00:08:34.920 There's a very, very famous anecdote about Dr. Johnson and his friend Boswell.

00:08:40.720 Boswell was a Scotsman.

00:08:42.760 And Boswell had been trying to persuade Johnson to go to Scotland.

00:08:47.820 Johnson feigned reluctance to do it.

00:08:49.700 In the end, he famously went and loved it and wrote his famous chronicle of his visits to the Western Isles.

00:08:54.860 But Johnson liked to wind Boswell up as Anglo-Scottish rivalry.

00:08:59.620 And Johnson said he couldn't think of any reason why he would go to Scotland,

00:09:02.520 to which Boswell said,

00:09:03.560 Why, sir, there are many noble prospects in Scotland.

00:09:06.920 Prospect in this sense, meaning a view.

00:09:08.920 And Johnson took it the other way and said,

00:09:11.740 Sir, the noblest prospect that any Scotsman ever saw was the broad road that leads south to England.

00:09:17.480 And that's a very, that was a very, that was a deliberately provocative comment of Johnson's.

00:09:22.400 But there was a great deal of truth in it.

00:09:23.900 In fact, as I say, coming back to Greg's observation about that,

00:09:27.500 the English wanting to exercise some sort of colonial hegemony of Scotland.

00:09:31.680 On the contrary, the Scots have had a disproportionate role in British political life.

00:09:37.700 And the last Labour government was dominated by a leftist Scottish clique

00:09:44.400 whose political opinions were way to the left of the majority opinion in England.

00:09:49.180 Beginning with Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister,

00:09:51.760 working his way down through the Chancellor of the Exchequer,

00:09:55.340 say the Finance Minister, Alistair Darling,

00:09:57.720 who actually led the campaign against independence in Scotland,

00:10:01.900 the Better Together campaign, did it very well.

00:10:03.720 Well, the government was top heavy with Scottish Labour Party apparatchiks.

00:10:10.520 In the past, we have had several, I think in the 20th century,

00:10:14.660 thinking of Scottish Prime Minister,

00:10:15.860 but Campbell Bannerman, who was a liberal.

00:10:19.640 We have certainly had Sir Alec Douglas Hume,

00:10:22.420 who was a Conservative Prime Minister and might be a very good one.

00:10:24.960 Tony Blair was partly a Scottish background and Gordon Brown entirely said

00:10:30.000 and said, very much a product of the Scottish Labour Party machine.

00:10:33.820 So the Scots, who form about 10% of the population of the United Kingdom,

00:10:38.960 have given far more political leaders to the United Kingdom

00:10:42.480 than would be expected by reference only to their numbers.

00:10:46.620 That's very interesting.

00:10:48.320 And also, there seems to be an actual double standard

00:10:51.020 where one could argue, maybe with tongue-in-cheek,

00:10:54.940 that the Scottish have imperial rule over the English.

00:10:59.180 Because in terms of spending matters,

00:11:02.920 Scotland has a large degree of autonomy

00:11:05.340 where English parliamentarians cannot vote on spending matters in Scotland.

00:11:09.760 But vice versa, that's not true.

00:11:11.880 Scottish...

00:11:12.280 This is no longer sustainable.

00:11:15.040 I absolutely agree with you.

00:11:17.100 When Scotland gave up its own parliament in 1707,

00:11:21.840 part of the price for that was a certain skewing, shall we say,

00:11:26.520 of the scales in favour of Scotland.

00:11:28.600 Scotland, for example, had far greater representation

00:11:31.880 in the British House of Commons

00:11:34.180 than its numbers would have justified.

00:11:37.620 Scotland returned 70 members of parliament,

00:11:40.100 whereas on a pro rata to the population base,

00:11:43.320 it only returned 56,

00:11:45.280 until it got its devolved parliament.

00:11:47.220 And then the number was, in fact, reduced.

00:11:50.160 Likewise, in Wales and Northern Ireland,

00:11:53.000 the number of members of parliament,

00:11:54.820 which those parts of the country returned,

00:11:57.280 to the Westminster parliament,

00:11:58.380 was reduced when each of them got its local parliament

00:12:01.120 as a quid pro quo.

00:12:02.460 Both had been over-represented in proportion to their numbers.

00:12:05.180 The group of people who are going to be most disappointed

00:12:08.180 about the outcome of the Scottish referendum,

00:12:10.080 next to Alex Samet,

00:12:11.100 who's had to resign as leader of the Scottish National Party

00:12:13.760 in his immediate circle of friends,

00:12:15.780 are what we call English nationalists,

00:12:18.240 the people who would like to see,

00:12:20.120 who'd like to have seen Scotland go.

00:12:22.660 And in fact, there's quite a radical cleavage

00:12:25.820 in the British, if they would call themselves English right,

00:12:31.020 between those who are unionists,

00:12:33.720 often people from an older generation

00:12:38.400 or people whose background is Anglo-Scottish

00:12:42.040 or Anglo-Welsh, my own,

00:12:43.360 as you can probably tell from the name, is Anglo-Welsh.

00:12:46.100 So those people who have families originating

00:12:48.940 in other parts of the United Kingdom,

00:12:50.440 England, tend to be more enthusiastic

00:12:54.000 about the concept of the union.

00:12:56.600 Those who have purely English descent

00:12:58.120 are often very doubtful about it,

00:13:00.080 or some of them are very doubtful,

00:13:01.300 particularly in the younger generation.

00:13:03.400 And that's so across the country.

00:13:06.000 In Scotland, younger people voted predominantly

00:13:08.720 for independence,

00:13:09.780 old people for the union, the status quo.

00:13:12.900 And I think you'd get a very similar vote

00:13:15.040 were such a thing permitted in England.

00:13:17.900 But younger people have much more of an English

00:13:19.800 rather than a British identity.

00:13:22.520 That is, as I say,

00:13:23.820 it's a result of all kinds of things,

00:13:24.980 of the passing of the British Empire,

00:13:26.460 which is now just a distant memory.

00:13:28.400 The passing of the shared historical experience

00:13:32.120 of the two World Wars.

00:13:33.560 The First World War long ago faded into myth.

00:13:36.480 Now, the second has.

00:13:38.700 People born in 1945

00:13:41.660 are now old-age pensioners pretty well.

00:13:46.380 Well, they certainly are old-age pensioners.

00:13:48.440 But to remember anything about that period,

00:13:50.880 of course, you have to have been born

00:13:51.940 a lot earlier than 1945.

00:13:55.160 And you now really,

00:13:56.480 if you were, say, 18 in 1945,

00:14:00.940 well, do the math as the saying goes,

00:14:03.860 you are now a very, very old person indeed.

00:14:06.480 So those who have lived experience

00:14:08.720 of that period are fading away.

00:14:12.300 And the younger generation has grown up

00:14:14.580 that no longer has that view.

00:14:19.420 And yes, for some people,

00:14:21.280 an English identity is now more important

00:14:23.100 than a British identity,

00:14:24.540 just as you pointed out,

00:14:25.960 that for about 45% of Scots,

00:14:28.280 a Scottish identity is more important

00:14:29.880 than a British identity.

00:14:31.500 To my mind,

00:14:32.280 the best solution to this problem,

00:14:34.620 which has been advocated

00:14:36.120 by some people in mainstream politics,

00:14:39.320 one who's put this forward

00:14:40.700 in a very articulate way,

00:14:41.820 and I absolutely agree

00:14:43.600 with his formulation,

00:14:44.640 is Mark Field,

00:14:45.400 a Member of Parliament

00:14:46.140 for the City of London,

00:14:47.960 who has said

00:14:49.340 that the only solution

00:14:50.860 to this problem

00:14:51.680 is to devolve everything

00:14:53.880 except foreign policy and defence

00:14:55.740 to national governments

00:14:56.780 for England, Scotland, Wales,

00:14:58.320 and Northern Ireland.

00:14:59.380 That is not a new idea.

00:15:01.640 Joseph Chablin,

00:15:02.520 who is perhaps

00:15:03.000 the most original political thinker

00:15:05.660 for a very long period

00:15:08.360 in British political life,

00:15:09.560 a man who began

00:15:10.140 on the far left

00:15:10.900 in British politics,

00:15:11.820 and ended on the far right,

00:15:13.720 opposed Irish home rule

00:15:15.440 in, I think, 1886,

00:15:17.760 but he didn't oppose it

00:15:18.940 on principle.

00:15:19.640 He opposed the idea

00:15:20.720 that only Ireland

00:15:21.760 should be treated in this way,

00:15:23.140 and he put forward

00:15:23.900 exactly the idea

00:15:24.940 that's now been revived

00:15:26.160 125 years and more later,

00:15:30.680 that we should have

00:15:31.920 home rule all round.

00:15:33.460 This is the basis

00:15:34.360 in the state

00:15:34.720 on which Australia

00:15:35.400 was federated.

00:15:36.960 The Australian states,

00:15:38.820 there was considerable rivalry,

00:15:41.600 particularly between

00:15:42.120 New South Wales

00:15:42.860 and Victoria.

00:15:44.480 Western Australia,

00:15:45.440 on the hand,

00:15:45.640 was a very long way

00:15:46.540 from the other states

00:15:47.600 and felt little

00:15:48.440 common identity with them,

00:15:50.040 and it was difficult

00:15:50.800 to persuade

00:15:52.080 the Australian states

00:15:53.420 to federate.

00:15:54.980 As you may know,

00:15:55.880 both Canada

00:15:56.500 and Australia

00:15:57.440 were not originally

00:15:59.320 federal states at all,

00:16:01.500 though they were

00:16:01.900 separate colonies,

00:16:03.040 just as the 13 colonies

00:16:04.300 of North America

00:16:05.060 were separate colonies

00:16:05.820 and had their own governments

00:16:06.960 and only formed

00:16:08.280 the Union government

00:16:09.040 after 1776.

00:16:11.000 Likewise,

00:16:12.060 both Canada

00:16:12.540 and Australia

00:16:13.160 were only federated.

00:16:14.040 In fact,

00:16:14.180 in the early part,

00:16:14.780 I believe,

00:16:15.040 the 20th century,

00:16:15.860 I think it was 1905

00:16:16.960 for Australia.

00:16:18.020 The federation

00:16:18.520 was more or less

00:16:19.240 on terms

00:16:20.120 that the federal government

00:16:21.540 would deal

00:16:22.260 with foreign policy,

00:16:23.500 defence,

00:16:24.260 interstate trade,

00:16:25.380 and other matters

00:16:26.240 that had to be regulated

00:16:27.320 at the federal level

00:16:28.200 and everything else

00:16:28.860 would be left

00:16:29.520 with these states.

00:16:31.020 And there is absolutely

00:16:31.640 no reason

00:16:32.120 why England,

00:16:32.820 Scotland,

00:16:33.280 Wales,

00:16:33.620 and Northern Ireland

00:16:34.200 shouldn't be governed

00:16:34.940 in that way.

00:16:35.740 And there seem to me

00:16:36.300 to be very good reasons

00:16:37.120 why they should be.

00:16:38.520 There is no reason

00:16:39.860 why England and Scotland

00:16:41.280 should have the same rate

00:16:42.720 of income tax

00:16:43.620 any more than there is

00:16:45.040 any reason

00:16:45.980 why your own state

00:16:47.100 of Montana

00:16:47.880 and Florida,

00:16:48.840 thousands of miles away

00:16:49.820 in the opposite corner

00:16:50.580 of the country,

00:16:51.220 should have the same rate

00:16:52.300 of local sales tax.

00:16:53.780 But we live in a country

00:16:54.680 where at the moment

00:16:55.380 that is so.

00:16:57.480 The central government

00:16:58.580 fixes almost all taxes

00:17:01.240 at a national,

00:17:02.420 that's the United Kingdom level,

00:17:03.900 and I for my part

00:17:06.580 can't think of any reason

00:17:07.520 why this should be.

00:17:08.980 It's very interesting.

00:17:10.520 I spoke with Colin Liddell

00:17:13.600 actually just yesterday

00:17:14.980 about these matters

00:17:16.020 and when I asked him

00:17:18.420 how would you have voted,

00:17:19.440 because he is a Scotsman

00:17:20.720 but he's a wandering Scott

00:17:23.000 who lives in Japan

00:17:23.740 so he couldn't have voted.

00:17:25.600 He said yes

00:17:26.280 and it was interesting

00:17:27.300 because the first thing

00:17:28.500 that he noted was

00:17:29.920 this will be great

00:17:31.340 because it will really

00:17:32.460 throw a wrench

00:17:33.640 into this Washington-led

00:17:35.980 NATO global order 0.81

00:17:38.100 that we all live under

00:17:39.320 that this will undermine

00:17:40.940 the notion of the UK

00:17:42.320 and it will undermine

00:17:44.160 that notion of Britain

00:17:45.760 as the bridge

00:17:46.580 between Washington

00:17:47.720 and Europe

00:17:48.500 and so on and so forth

00:17:49.600 and this will kind of lead

00:17:50.680 to maybe a multi-polar world

00:17:52.840 or something like that.

00:17:54.820 But what I'm hearing

00:17:55.820 from you is really

00:17:57.320 a little bit of the opposite

00:17:58.420 that there's not any kind of,

00:18:01.060 even if the yes had won,

00:18:05.040 there's really not

00:18:06.700 an imminent crisis in store

00:18:09.260 and there's not a,

00:18:11.100 there might be some devolution

00:18:12.900 but there's not going

00:18:13.940 to be dissolution

00:18:14.600 and that actually

00:18:15.780 this political system

00:18:17.040 is quite stable

00:18:18.160 and so for better

00:18:19.340 and for worse

00:18:20.100 the world that Colin imagined

00:18:23.960 is very unlikely.

00:18:25.560 I'm not sure

00:18:26.560 the political system

00:18:27.500 is stable.

00:18:29.400 I simply think

00:18:30.680 that the system

00:18:32.820 is considerably more stable

00:18:33.840 than that

00:18:34.180 in many other European countries

00:18:36.000 as a comparator.

00:18:40.000 I always like to give people

00:18:41.500 the example

00:18:42.440 of our nearest neighbour.

00:18:44.620 England and France

00:18:45.320 are in many ways

00:18:46.200 very comparable countries.

00:18:47.900 They're the first nation states

00:18:49.360 to have emerged in Europe

00:18:50.620 long, long before any others.

00:18:53.080 The next incident

00:18:53.940 were the countries

00:18:54.660 of the Iberian Peninsula

00:18:56.280 where as the reconquest

00:18:58.360 proceeded,

00:18:59.120 first Portugal

00:18:59.960 but then only later

00:19:02.060 because it was originally

00:19:03.160 several different kingdoms,

00:19:04.620 Spain emerged

00:19:05.620 as nation states.

00:19:07.040 England and France

00:19:07.720 have emerged

00:19:08.100 as nation states

00:19:08.740 long before that

00:19:10.040 and we have much

00:19:12.220 in common in many ways

00:19:13.180 with the French

00:19:13.700 in that respect.

00:19:14.660 Both were powerful

00:19:16.500 centralised states

00:19:17.980 that exerted power

00:19:20.400 beyond their apparent

00:19:21.700 population economic basis

00:19:24.040 and indeed

00:19:24.660 one of the things

00:19:25.060 we're going to be talking

00:19:25.600 about next week

00:19:26.380 at Jez's conference

00:19:27.260 in London

00:19:27.820 about how German nationalism

00:19:30.320 emerged

00:19:31.060 is one of the reasons

00:19:31.880 why it emerged

00:19:32.720 was that firstly

00:19:33.820 the 14th

00:19:34.660 and later

00:19:35.020 the Emperor Napoleon

00:19:35.960 were able to crush

00:19:37.100 the Germans

00:19:38.060 with relative ease

00:19:38.960 despite having a population

00:19:40.120 about two-fifths of theirs

00:19:41.400 because of the strongly organised

00:19:42.960 centralised French state

00:19:44.460 and sufficient military forces

00:19:45.920 and its ability

00:19:46.420 to project force.

00:19:47.260 Now, we have very similar experiences

00:19:49.740 to the French

00:19:50.840 in many ways.

00:19:51.820 We both had great

00:19:52.680 colonial empires

00:19:53.600 that we've lost.

00:19:54.520 We both had massive

00:19:55.280 immigration of populations

00:19:56.600 from the former

00:19:57.340 colonial empires

00:19:58.320 destabilising

00:19:59.860 and changing

00:20:00.700 the entire face

00:20:01.880 of the mother countries

00:20:02.860 as a result.

00:20:04.440 But in other respects

00:20:05.320 our experiences

00:20:06.420 have been very different.

00:20:07.980 The last time

00:20:09.420 that there was

00:20:10.380 a change of government

00:20:11.380 by anything approaching

00:20:12.520 force in England

00:20:13.540 was in 1689.

00:20:15.020 the so-called

00:20:16.500 Glorious Revolution

00:20:17.420 when William of Orange

00:20:19.740 came over

00:20:20.520 but in effect

00:20:21.200 at the request

00:20:22.020 of the English

00:20:23.180 as it was in those days

00:20:24.340 Parliament

00:20:24.820 and deposed

00:20:25.520 his father-in-law

00:20:26.340 James II.

00:20:28.140 And while that

00:20:28.960 led to very bloody fighting

00:20:30.380 first in Scotland

00:20:31.340 and later in Ireland

00:20:32.380 where James' supporters

00:20:33.680 were willing to take up

00:20:34.480 arms on his behalf

00:20:35.680 in England

00:20:36.440 no one would.

00:20:37.760 The king

00:20:38.360 for various reasons

00:20:39.420 had lost support.

00:20:40.960 And the revolution

00:20:41.660 in fact passed

00:20:42.400 without a drop of blood

00:20:43.340 being shed

00:20:43.820 which was a big difference

00:20:45.520 compared to the previous

00:20:46.640 revolution

00:20:47.440 under Oliver Cromwell

00:20:48.460 which was a very

00:20:49.220 very bloody affair

00:20:50.240 indeed

00:20:50.740 and as bad

00:20:51.800 in its own way

00:20:52.600 as your war

00:20:53.240 between the states

00:20:54.060 relative to the levels

00:20:55.160 of military

00:20:56.480 if you like

00:20:57.040 technology

00:20:57.720 existing

00:20:58.320 at the time.

00:20:59.960 Now France 0.96

00:21:00.420 experience being

00:21:01.100 very different.

00:21:02.300 Since 1789

00:21:03.380 the French

00:21:04.540 have had

00:21:04.960 five republics

00:21:06.520 two restoration

00:21:07.620 of the Bourbon

00:21:08.340 the Emperor

00:21:10.080 Napoleon Bonaparte

00:21:10.820 twice

00:21:11.440 first the First Empire

00:21:12.580 and then the Hundred Days

00:21:13.860 the July Monarchy 0.51

00:21:16.660 the so-called

00:21:19.960 Third Empire 0.95

00:21:20.820 under Napoleon III

00:21:21.640 and the Vichy State

00:21:22.600 each of those

00:21:23.460 changes of government

00:21:24.140 has been marked

00:21:24.660 by considerable violence

00:21:26.040 execution

00:21:26.740 of political opponents

00:21:28.280 fighting in the streets

00:21:30.320 of Paris

00:21:31.040 and so on

00:21:31.880 the amazing thing

00:21:33.320 about French

00:21:34.140 political institutions

00:21:34.900 at the moment

00:21:35.380 is the Fifth Republic

00:21:36.280 has proved so stable

00:21:37.360 for so very long

00:21:38.260 that is absolutely

00:21:39.220 against the trend

00:21:40.260 of French political history

00:21:41.360 since 1789

00:21:42.360 on the other hand

00:21:43.680 in England

00:21:44.280 that has not happened

00:21:46.380 nor indeed

00:21:47.060 in Scotland

00:21:47.800 has it happened

00:21:49.240 for a very long time

00:21:51.700 indeed

00:21:52.480 although Scotland

00:21:53.960 was more affected

00:21:55.240 in the 18th century

00:21:56.360 by uprisings

00:21:57.280 in favour

00:21:57.880 of the exiled

00:21:58.940 Stuart Kings

00:21:59.600 in 1715

00:22:00.700 and 1745

00:22:01.740 and those were

00:22:02.920 bloody and hard fought

00:22:04.460 but there hasn't really been

00:22:05.840 as I say

00:22:06.200 violent revolution

00:22:07.040 in England

00:22:07.600 since Oliver Cromwell's time

00:22:09.880 there hasn't been any revolution

00:22:10.800 at all

00:22:11.200 since King William III's time

00:22:12.660 and not in Scotland

00:22:13.700 since the last

00:22:14.760 Highland Rising

00:22:15.520 of 1745

00:22:16.640 in favour

00:22:17.260 of Charles Edward Stuart

00:22:18.260 that is a very

00:22:19.700 very long time ago

00:22:21.780 and that is a very

00:22:23.420 very different thing

00:22:24.820 from the experience

00:22:26.040 of most other

00:22:26.940 European countries

00:22:28.240 and indeed

00:22:30.080 we can see

00:22:31.040 violent political change

00:22:32.600 taking place

00:22:33.260 in Eastern Europe

00:22:33.980 and Ukraine

00:22:34.500 even as we speak

00:22:35.420 Right

00:22:36.080 Do you think

00:22:37.120 there's somewhat

00:22:38.060 of a deceptive nature

00:22:39.280 to that history

00:22:40.100 where often times

00:22:41.520 the outward form

00:22:42.700 will remain the same

00:22:43.760 while there really is

00:22:45.180 a major revolution

00:22:46.340 going on

00:22:46.940 whether in terms of

00:22:47.680 society or culture

00:22:48.820 or in terms of

00:22:49.640 race and demographics

00:22:50.880 Yes

00:22:51.400 I think it's one of

00:22:52.400 the strengths

00:22:54.120 of the current

00:22:55.200 British political establishment

00:22:56.680 which is a very

00:22:57.700 bad thing

00:22:58.720 for the British people

00:23:00.120 that the forms

00:23:02.560 of government

00:23:03.140 which we have

00:23:03.860 in England

00:23:04.300 give the illusion

00:23:05.280 of continuity

00:23:06.340 that covers up

00:23:07.740 the reality

00:23:08.460 of radical change

00:23:09.800 Our capital city

00:23:11.160 now has a population

00:23:12.380 more than half

00:23:13.220 of which is not British

00:23:14.400 Right

00:23:14.940 This is a change

00:23:16.580 that is much more

00:23:17.660 important

00:23:18.340 to my mind

00:23:20.180 than how the economy

00:23:21.200 is organised

00:23:21.800 or what form

00:23:22.440 of government

00:23:22.860 that you have

00:23:23.780 Large parts

00:23:25.200 of our capital city

00:23:25.940 are no longer

00:23:26.420 part of Europe

00:23:27.260 The populations

00:23:31.720 as in be

00:23:32.300 not European populations

00:23:33.660 they don't live

00:23:34.600 in a European fashion

00:23:36.440 they live according

00:23:37.240 to their own cultures

00:23:38.200 which they have

00:23:38.660 brought with them

00:23:39.580 For one particular group

00:23:42.280 several hundred

00:23:42.940 have now gone off

00:23:44.040 to the Middle East

00:23:44.780 to get jihad training

00:23:46.260 from Islamic State

00:23:47.400 and other delightful

00:23:48.300 groups of similar nature

00:23:49.800 and will no doubt

00:23:50.500 come back to England 0.99

00:23:51.460 infused with this

00:23:52.620 ideology

00:23:53.440 with consequences

00:23:55.100 that are completely

00:23:55.880 predictable

00:23:56.640 to anyone

00:23:58.420 at any rate

00:23:58.880 except our political

00:23:59.660 class

00:24:00.180 which somehow

00:24:01.100 thought that they

00:24:01.960 would be able

00:24:02.340 to assimilate

00:24:03.000 these huge

00:24:03.740 foreign populations

00:24:04.860 without too much

00:24:07.340 trouble

00:24:07.880 but all this time

00:24:11.280 the outward forms

00:24:13.620 of British political

00:24:15.200 life have continued

00:24:16.780 unchanged

00:24:18.100 the monarchy

00:24:19.180 the two major parties

00:24:21.140 the established

00:24:23.160 search

00:24:23.800 etc etc

00:24:24.900 giving a veneer

00:24:27.360 of continuity

00:24:28.260 to a country

00:24:29.940 which is no longer

00:24:31.260 recognised

00:24:31.800 where the country was

00:24:32.420 even when I was a child

00:24:33.660 back in the 1970s

00:24:36.280 but that has changed

00:24:37.600 in many areas

00:24:38.800 out of all recognition

00:24:39.900 from that time

00:24:41.360 Do you think also

00:24:42.340 the idea

00:24:43.360 of proportional

00:24:44.880 representation

00:24:45.940 based on geography

00:24:47.200 is in a way

00:24:47.940 becoming outmoded

00:24:49.560 in the sense that

00:24:50.320 you know

00:24:50.900 there are people

00:24:51.820 there are Scotsmen

00:24:52.880 who lived abroad

00:24:54.160 who have

00:24:54.940 you know

00:24:55.720 generations and generations

00:24:57.080 of history

00:24:57.740 within that country

00:24:58.660 yet someone

00:25:00.160 a you know

00:25:01.000 someone from Pakistan

00:25:01.880 or something

00:25:02.600 who immigrated

00:25:04.080 to Edinburgh

00:25:04.800 could vote

00:25:06.000 on this referendum

00:25:07.240 and did

00:25:09.240 one of the most

00:25:10.020 striking scenes

00:25:10.760 was Nicola Sturgeon

00:25:11.820 the deputy leader

00:25:12.620 of the Scottish

00:25:13.140 National Party

00:25:14.220 unlikely to become

00:25:15.480 its leader

00:25:15.880 now that Alex

00:25:16.420 has resigned

00:25:17.120 campaigning

00:25:18.260 at the Glasgow

00:25:18.960 Central Mosque

00:25:20.880 amongst people

00:25:23.620 who shall we say

00:25:24.720 did not have any

00:25:25.380 obvious clan

00:25:26.260 affiliations

00:25:27.200 the dispute

00:25:28.920 between the Camerons

00:25:29.760 and the McDonald's

00:25:30.540 was unlikely

00:25:31.080 to be high on

00:25:31.920 the list

00:25:32.360 they were

00:25:32.840 they were wearing

00:25:33.640 different kinds

00:25:34.440 of kilts

00:25:35.000 they were wearing

00:25:35.720 different kinds

00:25:36.580 of garb

00:25:36.980 altogether

00:25:37.420 yes

00:25:37.920 now

00:25:38.820 obviously

00:25:40.220 there has to be

00:25:41.020 some limit

00:25:41.440 to this

00:25:42.080 you've got

00:25:45.720 for example

00:25:46.240 countries

00:25:47.640 Canada is one

00:25:48.640 New Zealand

00:25:49.200 is another

00:25:49.840 where very

00:25:50.540 very large

00:25:51.700 proportions

00:25:52.260 of the population

00:25:53.020 are Scottish

00:25:53.940 descent

00:25:54.440 but one can't

00:25:56.080 credibly say

00:25:56.980 that somebody

00:25:57.700 living in Nova Scotia

00:25:59.380 whose family

00:26:00.360 emigrated there

00:26:01.420 at the end

00:26:01.880 of the 18th

00:26:02.580 or beginning

00:26:02.860 of the 19th

00:26:03.600 century

00:26:04.100 and has lived

00:26:05.060 in Canada

00:26:05.720 for well over

00:26:06.540 two centuries

00:26:07.380 can be voting

00:26:08.640 on the affairs

00:26:09.600 of Scotland

00:26:10.080 today

00:26:10.480 however attached

00:26:11.340 they may be

00:26:12.040 to their clan

00:26:12.700 lineage

00:26:13.180 or certain

00:26:13.820 aspects of

00:26:14.460 Scottish heritage

00:26:15.220 and culture

00:26:15.880 they're Canadians

00:26:17.180 I'll be Canadians

00:26:18.120 of Scots

00:26:18.600 descent

00:26:19.120 you could find

00:26:22.640 plenty of people

00:26:23.240 in your own

00:26:23.720 Appalachians

00:26:24.600 who have

00:26:25.960 some Scottish

00:26:26.640 blood

00:26:27.060 so the people

00:26:28.940 of Kentucky

00:26:29.760 should be

00:26:30.520 asked to vote

00:26:31.880 on the future

00:26:32.580 of Scotland

00:26:33.220 anymore the people

00:26:34.120 of Scotland

00:26:34.520 can be asked

00:26:35.080 to vote

00:26:35.400 on the future

00:26:35.940 of Kentucky

00:26:36.620 so there must

00:26:38.620 be some limit

00:26:39.520 to the principle

00:26:40.560 that you put forward

00:26:41.340 yes obviously

00:26:42.380 I would entirely

00:26:44.220 agree

00:26:44.640 the blood

00:26:45.140 descent

00:26:45.600 is far more

00:26:46.360 important

00:26:47.160 than where

00:26:48.340 somebody happens

00:26:49.420 to be

00:26:50.080 in determining

00:26:51.120 their nationality

00:26:52.560 but equally

00:26:53.860 it can't be

00:26:55.360 the only

00:26:55.960 principle

00:26:56.680 otherwise

00:26:58.460 we would not

00:26:59.820 have any

00:27:00.520 of the

00:27:01.000 modern states

00:27:01.980 for people

00:27:03.580 whose heritage

00:27:05.440 is largely

00:27:06.000 European

00:27:06.380 but who left

00:27:07.040 the old continent

00:27:07.680 a very long time

00:27:08.480 ago in many

00:27:09.160 cases

00:27:10.100 oh right

00:27:11.040 I certainly

00:27:11.940 acknowledge this

00:27:12.700 I don't think

00:27:13.900 one should

00:27:14.340 throw the baby 0.99

00:27:15.040 out with the

00:27:15.500 bath water

00:27:15.960 so to speak

00:27:16.500 where you get

00:27:17.440 rid of

00:27:18.060 geographically

00:27:19.540 based

00:27:20.040 democracy

00:27:21.460 but I think

00:27:22.260 actually

00:27:22.620 I think

00:27:23.380 this is one

00:27:23.980 interesting thing

00:27:24.900 about the

00:27:25.440 modern world

00:27:26.840 is that it

00:27:27.380 really does

00:27:27.820 bring that

00:27:28.460 into a

00:27:28.940 question

00:27:29.960 and I think

00:27:31.140 we might

00:27:31.600 need to start

00:27:32.180 thinking about

00:27:33.220 a new

00:27:34.620 form of

00:27:35.200 government

00:27:35.540 the geographically

00:27:37.200 bound

00:27:37.700 nation state

00:27:38.620 and these

00:27:39.320 kind of

00:27:39.580 smaller ones

00:27:40.300 and all the

00:27:41.240 kind of

00:27:41.600 ethno-nationalism

00:27:42.440 that goes

00:27:42.720 along with it

00:27:43.280 I mean

00:27:43.540 Scottish

00:27:44.520 independence

00:27:45.060 or ethno-nationalism

00:27:46.300 that we should

00:27:46.920 break up

00:27:47.380 Czechoslovakia

00:27:48.280 all this

00:27:48.720 this is not

00:27:49.760 a new

00:27:50.200 idea

00:27:50.540 this is

00:27:50.860 a kind

00:27:51.160 of romantic

00:27:51.960 19th century

00:27:53.260 idea

00:27:53.540 each people

00:27:56.220 should have

00:27:56.560 his democracy

00:27:57.060 I actually

00:27:57.560 had a very

00:27:58.380 enjoyable dinner

00:27:59.200 when I was

00:27:59.700 in Montreal

00:28:01.080 with some

00:28:02.160 Quebec

00:28:03.260 nationalists

00:28:04.120 and they're

00:28:04.980 saying

00:28:05.160 we're the

00:28:05.560 one people

00:28:06.460 who hasn't

00:28:07.060 had a democracy

00:28:07.900 yet

00:28:08.200 it's just

00:28:08.680 all

00:28:08.920 again

00:28:10.240 I really

00:28:10.920 enjoyed

00:28:11.480 their company

00:28:12.120 but it

00:28:12.680 struck me

00:28:13.300 as extremely

00:28:14.480 nostalgic

00:28:15.180 and

00:28:15.660 wispy

00:28:16.500 it's just

00:28:17.500 this is

00:28:18.020 not

00:28:18.520 the modern

00:28:19.180 world

00:28:19.540 we live

00:28:19.960 in

00:28:20.520 where

00:28:20.860 there's

00:28:21.440 little

00:28:21.760 peoples

00:28:22.320 that need

00:28:22.920 sovereignty

00:28:23.380 we might

00:28:23.880 need a much

00:28:24.460 bigger form

00:28:25.480 of government

00:28:26.100 a European

00:28:27.100 form of government

00:28:28.000 to be frank

00:28:28.540 well the two

00:28:29.520 are not

00:28:29.880 the two

00:28:30.320 are not

00:28:30.600 actually

00:28:31.020 incompatible

00:28:32.260 and

00:28:33.920 the

00:28:34.500 in fact

00:28:36.500 the only

00:28:37.260 way

00:28:37.860 in which

00:28:39.300 you can

00:28:39.940 allow

00:28:40.760 each of

00:28:41.900 these smaller

00:28:42.500 nationalities

00:28:43.400 to have

00:28:43.820 its own

00:28:44.280 national state

00:28:45.500 would be

00:28:47.320 under some

00:28:48.700 kind of

00:28:49.260 overarching

00:28:49.940 European

00:28:50.760 dispensation

00:28:52.280 this creates

00:28:54.120 problems

00:28:54.600 of its

00:28:55.120 own

00:28:55.760 I was

00:28:56.700 rather critical

00:28:58.120 very critical

00:28:58.880 candidly

00:28:59.840 of one

00:29:00.200 part of

00:29:00.700 Greg's

00:29:01.200 article

00:29:01.540 on the

00:29:02.160 Scottish

00:29:02.680 referendum

00:29:03.500 where I

00:29:03.960 think as I

00:29:04.420 say he

00:29:04.860 seriously

00:29:05.500 misunderstood

00:29:06.180 English

00:29:06.520 attitudes

00:29:06.900 to

00:29:07.180 Scotland

00:29:07.480 on the

00:29:08.580 other

00:29:08.780 hand

00:29:09.420 he made

00:29:10.360 some very

00:29:10.820 good and

00:29:11.240 interesting

00:29:11.760 points

00:29:12.480 which require

00:29:13.280 careful

00:29:13.640 consideration

00:29:14.380 he for

00:29:14.880 example

00:29:15.340 made a

00:29:16.480 lively

00:29:16.760 critique

00:29:17.220 of

00:29:17.460 Guillaume

00:29:17.880 Fay's 1.00

00:29:18.640 enthusiasm

00:29:19.680 for

00:29:20.960 a greater

00:29:21.820 Europe

00:29:22.200 stretching

00:29:22.720 from the

00:29:23.200 Atlantic

00:29:23.580 to the

00:29:23.920 Ural

00:29:24.240 saying that

00:29:24.800 for many

00:29:25.160 of the

00:29:25.400 peoples

00:29:25.700 of

00:29:25.900 Eastern

00:29:26.180 Europe

00:29:26.560 this

00:29:27.240 would

00:29:27.420 resemble

00:29:28.000 nothing

00:29:28.360 more

00:29:28.660 than

00:29:28.780 the

00:29:28.920 Russian

00:29:29.160 dominated

00:29:29.820 prison

00:29:30.320 of the

00:29:30.620 nationalities

00:29:31.420 from which

00:29:31.820 they had

00:29:32.060 only emerged

00:29:32.880 a couple

00:29:33.300 of decades

00:29:33.920 ago

00:29:34.400 now he

00:29:35.700 takes

00:29:36.160 a very

00:29:37.080 negative

00:29:37.400 view

00:29:37.640 of Russia

00:29:38.080 I take

00:29:38.900 a much

00:29:39.180 more positive

00:29:39.680 one as I

00:29:40.100 think that

00:29:40.460 you do

00:29:41.000 but it's

00:29:42.060 an

00:29:42.660 understandable

00:29:43.800 position

00:29:44.680 it's a

00:29:45.100 position that

00:29:45.540 can't simply

00:29:46.060 be dismissed

00:29:46.820 it requires

00:29:47.380 very very

00:29:47.780 careful

00:29:48.220 thought

00:29:49.320 what I

00:29:50.460 would say

00:29:50.980 is that

00:29:51.480 this idea

00:29:52.180 of small

00:29:52.840 nations

00:29:53.480 having their

00:29:54.000 own states

00:29:54.620 is by

00:29:54.980 no means

00:29:55.640 unviable

00:29:56.240 or untenable

00:29:57.080 can only

00:29:58.080 happen

00:29:58.620 under an

00:29:59.300 overarching

00:30:00.020 European

00:30:01.080 dispensation

00:30:02.080 that keeps

00:30:02.700 the peace

00:30:03.320 between

00:30:03.980 them

00:30:04.380 the sad

00:30:06.560 fact that

00:30:07.060 has to

00:30:07.840 be

00:30:08.000 recognised

00:30:08.520 is that

00:30:10.040 narrow

00:30:11.160 nationalism

00:30:11.860 or

00:30:12.620 perhaps even

00:30:14.420 worse the

00:30:15.280 nationalism of

00:30:15.940 the bigger

00:30:16.260 European states

00:30:17.040 has been a

00:30:17.440 largely negative

00:30:18.320 phenomenon

00:30:19.000 and this

00:30:20.580 year we

00:30:21.020 marked the

00:30:21.660 centenary

00:30:22.440 of a

00:30:23.260 kind of

00:30:23.620 auto

00:30:23.940 genocide

00:30:24.580 committed

00:30:25.600 by the

00:30:26.120 major

00:30:26.400 European

00:30:26.860 peoples

00:30:27.660 anyone

00:30:28.680 who can

00:30:29.200 assess

00:30:29.500 nationalism

00:30:30.140 positively

00:30:31.040 in the

00:30:31.920 light of

00:30:32.360 that period

00:30:33.060 is simply

00:30:33.620 in denial

00:30:34.300 about obvious

00:30:35.260 realities

00:30:35.880 which is

00:30:36.440 that it

00:30:37.260 was

00:30:37.420 calamitous

00:30:38.400 I don't

00:30:39.440 to be

00:30:39.900 frank

00:30:40.220 I don't

00:30:40.500 know how

00:30:40.860 anyone

00:30:41.340 could

00:30:41.600 conceivably

00:30:42.140 think that

00:30:42.660 Ukrainian

00:30:43.380 nationalism

00:30:44.300 is advancing

00:30:46.300 our

00:30:46.940 civilisation

00:30:47.660 or people

00:30:48.300 it seems

00:30:49.040 to be

00:30:49.340 a violent

00:30:50.220 and hate

00:30:50.900 filled

00:30:52.100 vision

00:30:53.520 that

00:30:54.020 has led

00:30:54.540 to death

00:30:55.380 that

00:30:55.600 dare I

00:30:56.120 say

00:30:56.400 is just

00:30:56.840 as extreme

00:30:57.660 a position

00:30:58.820 as the

00:30:59.780 kind of

00:31:00.660 position

00:31:01.220 that one

00:31:02.620 hears from

00:31:03.320 Ukrainians

00:31:04.600 about the

00:31:05.760 Russians

00:31:06.080 who they

00:31:06.440 regard as

00:31:07.000 primitive

00:31:07.700 murderous 0.95

00:31:08.280 barbarians 0.98

00:31:09.180 etc

00:31:09.800 unfortunately

00:31:11.020 the fact

00:31:13.300 that two

00:31:13.660 people are

00:31:14.080 very closely

00:31:14.660 related

00:31:15.160 and share

00:31:15.820 much of

00:31:16.340 their culture

00:31:17.160 the same

00:31:17.720 religion

00:31:18.140 doesn't

00:31:18.600 stop them

00:31:19.060 hating

00:31:19.360 one another

00:31:19.920 over small

00:31:20.620 differences

00:31:21.440 that is a

00:31:23.200 long lesson

00:31:24.300 of history

00:31:25.000 and has

00:31:25.380 happened

00:31:25.760 again

00:31:26.440 and again

00:31:27.300 there is

00:31:28.280 no

00:31:28.680 one needs

00:31:31.080 to be

00:31:31.200 very careful

00:31:31.500 about how

00:31:31.820 one uses

00:31:32.200 words here

00:31:33.080 too

00:31:33.560 people talk

00:31:35.020 about

00:31:35.180 ethno

00:31:35.540 nationalism

00:31:36.020 there is

00:31:36.840 nothing

00:31:37.500 ethno

00:31:38.260 nationalist

00:31:38.780 about

00:31:39.280 Scottish

00:31:39.820 nationalism

00:31:40.520 so far

00:31:41.440 as Alex

00:31:42.040 Salmon

00:31:42.340 and the

00:31:42.560 Scottish

00:31:42.820 National

00:31:43.160 Party

00:31:43.520 are concerned

00:31:44.180 anyone

00:31:45.700 who happens

00:31:46.320 to be

00:31:46.620 present on

00:31:47.280 the soil

00:31:47.680 of Scotland

00:31:48.200 is a

00:31:48.580 Scots

00:31:48.860 except perhaps

00:31:49.560 an Englishman

00:31:50.240 they for

00:31:50.640 some reason

00:31:51.200 don't become

00:31:51.820 Scots

00:31:52.160 the only group

00:31:53.880 is permissible

00:31:54.460 to hate

00:31:55.220 they would

00:31:56.500 welcome any

00:31:57.060 number of

00:31:57.600 third world

00:31:58.040 immigrants

00:31:58.540 into Scotland

00:31:59.320 but they don't

00:32:00.060 become English

00:32:00.820 I'm not joking

00:32:02.060 that is

00:32:03.500 their position

00:32:03.820 that's not a

00:32:04.340 humorous remark

00:32:05.140 that is actually

00:32:06.140 pretty well

00:32:06.740 their position

00:32:07.420 I have a friend

00:32:09.320 who's Scottish

00:32:10.340 who actually

00:32:11.020 has a very

00:32:11.660 similar viewpoint

00:32:12.540 to us

00:32:13.540 and indeed

00:32:14.260 you can find

00:32:16.340 plenty in

00:32:17.000 Quebec

00:32:17.280 who would

00:32:18.360 rather have

00:32:18.900 Haitians

00:32:19.660 in Quebec

00:32:20.500 than English

00:32:21.740 speakers

00:32:22.300 that is their

00:32:24.060 policy

00:32:24.540 let's bring in

00:32:25.640 French speakers

00:32:26.180 but just to go

00:32:27.140 back quickly

00:32:27.620 to the joke

00:32:28.140 I have a

00:32:28.860 good friend

00:32:29.480 who's Scottish

00:32:30.380 who has a

00:32:30.840 similar viewpoint

00:32:31.440 to the two of

00:32:32.640 us

00:32:32.860 and he said

00:32:33.520 oh London

00:32:34.500 I can't do a

00:32:35.560 Scottish accent

00:32:36.140 oh London 1.00

00:32:36.920 it's all crap 1.00

00:32:38.240 I hate it 1.00

00:32:38.840 it's all 0.91

00:32:39.760 multicultural

00:32:40.520 and even worse

00:32:41.640 it's English

00:32:42.540 yes yes indeed

00:32:43.820 it's the second

00:32:44.680 that really bothers

00:32:45.580 you much more

00:32:46.460 than the first

00:32:47.020 but actually

00:32:47.880 as I say

00:32:48.600 coming back

00:32:49.160 to this idea

00:32:50.180 there is nothing

00:32:51.460 as no nationalist

00:32:52.140 about Scottish

00:32:53.000 nationalism

00:32:53.460 not only

00:32:54.380 do Scottish

00:32:55.220 nationalists

00:32:55.620 by and large

00:32:56.300 welcome

00:32:57.800 or at least

00:32:58.480 not oppose

00:32:59.360 the influx

00:33:00.200 of enormous

00:33:00.820 numbers of

00:33:01.380 third world

00:33:01.780 people in Scotland

00:33:02.700 but secondly

00:33:04.620 the difference

00:33:05.480 between the Scottish

00:33:06.160 and the English

00:33:06.620 cannot be defined

00:33:07.420 in ethnic terms

00:33:08.240 anyway

00:33:08.740 the lowlands

00:33:10.040 of Scotland

00:33:10.660 have a very

00:33:11.600 very large

00:33:12.380 admixture

00:33:13.180 of Anglo-Saxon

00:33:14.420 blood

00:33:14.860 and are not

00:33:15.400 ethnically

00:33:15.940 distinguishable

00:33:16.680 from Northern

00:33:17.240 England

00:33:17.600 there is far

00:33:18.980 more

00:33:19.240 if one wants

00:33:19.840 to use

00:33:20.360 that word

00:33:21.140 which I don't

00:33:21.620 necessarily

00:33:21.920 even think

00:33:22.380 is always a

00:33:22.820 very helpful

00:33:23.340 word

00:33:23.720 at least not

00:33:24.260 between

00:33:24.700 the different

00:33:25.660 populations

00:33:26.280 of Europe

00:33:26.680 which are

00:33:27.020 so closely

00:33:27.560 related by

00:33:28.200 blood

00:33:28.500 there's far

00:33:29.360 more difference

00:33:30.260 between a

00:33:30.880 highlander

00:33:31.520 and a

00:33:31.780 lowlander

00:33:32.480 than there is

00:33:33.320 between someone

00:33:33.900 from the

00:33:34.200 lowlands

00:33:34.540 of Scotland

00:33:34.980 and someone

00:33:35.400 from Northumberland

00:33:36.360 in England

00:33:36.920 in ethnic

00:33:37.720 terms

00:33:38.300 and indeed

00:33:40.060 one of the

00:33:40.580 things

00:33:40.860 Scottish

00:33:41.720 nationals

00:33:42.180 in some

00:33:42.460 respects

00:33:42.720 are lucky

00:33:43.080 they haven't

00:33:43.620 got their

00:33:44.000 independence

00:33:44.560 state

00:33:44.880 because if

00:33:45.120 they did

00:33:45.620 it would

00:33:45.880 immediately

00:33:46.320 begin showing

00:33:47.000 all kinds

00:33:47.560 of fissures

00:33:48.120 that exist

00:33:48.600 in Scotland

00:33:49.260 which are

00:33:49.940 multiple

00:33:50.460 and complex

00:33:51.200 between

00:33:52.000 lowlander

00:33:52.560 and highlander

00:33:53.180 between east

00:33:53.880 coast

00:33:54.180 and west

00:33:54.660 coast

00:33:55.000 if there's

00:33:55.700 one group

00:33:56.240 of people

00:33:56.780 who the

00:33:57.460 average

00:33:57.820 Glaswegian 0.88

00:33:58.560 hates

00:33:59.160 it isn't

00:33:59.740 English people

00:34:00.620 it isn't

00:34:01.800 even Irish

00:34:02.300 immigrants

00:34:02.720 though many

00:34:03.100 of them

00:34:03.320 hate those

00:34:04.040 it's people

00:34:04.840 from Edinburgh

00:34:05.540 who they

00:34:06.060 loathe and

00:34:06.700 detest with a

00:34:07.700 passion

00:34:08.140 as snobby

00:34:09.040 stuck up

00:34:09.960 east coast

00:34:11.140 financial and

00:34:12.760 social establishment

00:34:13.820 etc

00:34:14.360 and the

00:34:14.820 dislike between

00:34:15.540 the citizens

00:34:16.000 of the two

00:34:16.400 cities is

00:34:17.200 extreme

00:34:19.020 historically there

00:34:20.120 are very very

00:34:20.700 bitter religious

00:34:21.460 differences between

00:34:22.400 Catholic and

00:34:23.040 Protestant in

00:34:23.780 Scotland

00:34:24.160 while they are

00:34:25.260 not so pronounced

00:34:26.200 today as they

00:34:26.980 were even 50

00:34:28.300 years ago

00:34:28.880 they're still

00:34:29.500 there

00:34:30.120 so there

00:34:32.040 are many

00:34:32.360 many different

00:34:32.940 tensions

00:34:33.660 in Scottish

00:34:34.640 society

00:34:35.340 can be split

00:34:36.100 north and

00:34:36.600 south east

00:34:37.180 and west

00:34:37.600 Catholic and

00:34:38.400 Protestant

00:34:38.940 rich and poor

00:34:40.980 and so on

00:34:41.960 it's certainly

00:34:45.440 not an ethnic

00:34:46.460 difference between

00:34:47.300 Scotland and

00:34:48.820 England

00:34:49.220 just as an

00:34:51.260 even more

00:34:52.020 polarised and

00:34:53.060 fragmented

00:34:53.540 society of

00:34:54.200 Northern Ireland

00:34:54.840 there is minimal

00:34:56.460 ethnic difference

00:34:57.600 between the two

00:34:58.700 communities

00:34:59.600 and it's

00:35:02.100 really a

00:35:03.480 perception of

00:35:04.300 their own

00:35:04.860 nationality

00:35:05.900 one group

00:35:06.480 perceives itself

00:35:07.340 as British

00:35:07.860 and another

00:35:08.420 as Irish

00:35:09.280 that's largely

00:35:10.400 religiously and

00:35:11.240 culturally defined

00:35:12.240 and has very

00:35:12.840 little race and

00:35:14.020 ethnicity

00:35:14.440 about it

00:35:16.200 and my

00:35:17.340 mother comes

00:35:17.900 from Eastern

00:35:18.300 Europe

00:35:18.660 there's a little

00:35:19.320 real ethnic

00:35:20.220 difference between

00:35:21.000 Serbs and

00:35:21.640 Croats who 0.93

00:35:22.380 have fought one

00:35:23.160 another in the

00:35:23.720 most vicious

00:35:24.400 wars or between

00:35:25.500 Bosnians and

00:35:26.460 Serbs 0.71

00:35:26.880 the point is

00:35:28.220 that Croats

00:35:29.100 are Catholic

00:35:29.660 Serbs 0.71

00:35:30.060 Orthodox

00:35:30.520 and Bosnians

00:35:31.240 are Muslims

00:35:31.740 and the three

00:35:32.800 groups define

00:35:33.880 themselves

00:35:34.720 in part

00:35:37.260 upon a

00:35:38.540 nationality

00:35:39.320 that's really

00:35:39.900 little more

00:35:40.980 than a religious

00:35:42.360 difference

00:35:43.340 and a cultural

00:35:44.640 difference

00:35:45.180 it's not a

00:35:45.720 racial difference

00:35:47.120 it's not like

00:35:48.700 the kind of

00:35:49.080 difference that

00:35:49.480 exists between

00:35:50.160 a Nigerian

00:35:51.800 and a

00:35:53.000 European

00:35:53.560 or between

00:35:54.880 a European

00:35:56.480 and a

00:35:57.220 Japanese

00:35:57.660 or between

00:35:58.600 a Japanese

00:35:59.200 and a

00:35:59.500 Nigerian

00:36:00.080 these are

00:36:00.640 people from

00:36:01.280 clearly different

00:36:02.140 ethnic groups

00:36:03.400 but there is

00:36:06.740 no real

00:36:07.900 ethnic difference

00:36:09.440 between the

00:36:10.340 different warring

00:36:10.960 nationalities

00:36:11.460 either in

00:36:12.160 Southeast Europe

00:36:12.980 in the 80s

00:36:14.820 and 90s

00:36:15.640 in the break of

00:36:16.660 Yugoslavia

00:36:17.280 or between

00:36:19.000 Scotland and

00:36:19.580 England today

00:36:20.360 in the kind of

00:36:21.420 peaceful debate

00:36:22.300 that's taken place

00:36:23.220 about independence

00:36:23.860 or between

00:36:24.280 Russia and

00:36:24.740 the Ukraine

00:36:25.240 the very

00:36:25.660 violent

00:36:26.200 struggle

00:36:28.220 over political

00:36:29.800 control of

00:36:30.460 Eastern Ukraine

00:36:31.320 so it is

00:36:34.020 it would be a

00:36:34.960 mistake to define

00:36:35.660 everything in

00:36:36.180 ethnic terms

00:36:37.060 this I think

00:36:38.380 sometimes happens

00:36:39.180 among so-called

00:36:40.060 white nationalists

00:36:41.060 in America

00:36:41.780 where an identity

00:36:43.520 has evolved

00:36:44.540 which is called

00:36:45.540 European American

00:36:46.840 it's very

00:36:47.760 understandable how

00:36:48.540 that identity

00:36:49.120 has evolved in

00:36:49.900 the United

00:36:50.420 States

00:36:51.360 because they

00:36:52.260 have people

00:36:52.720 from many

00:36:53.140 many different

00:36:53.600 European nations

00:36:54.620 who have come

00:36:55.880 together in

00:36:56.600 a new identity

00:36:57.780 and I think

00:37:00.200 the defining

00:37:00.660 feature of which

00:37:01.480 is people

00:37:02.060 abandoning the

00:37:02.880 languages they

00:37:03.600 brought to

00:37:04.100 America with 0.74

00:37:04.800 them and

00:37:05.320 becoming English

00:37:06.440 speakers which

00:37:07.980 happened at

00:37:08.480 different speeds

00:37:09.880 with different

00:37:10.400 communities

00:37:10.920 German was

00:37:12.220 very persistent

00:37:13.340 as you probably

00:37:14.080 know in

00:37:14.480 Pennsylvania and

00:37:15.340 in many other

00:37:15.840 parts of the

00:37:16.400 country

00:37:16.900 Italian

00:37:19.620 Americans

00:37:20.320 retained a

00:37:21.640 strongly Italian

00:37:22.380 cultural and

00:37:23.080 linguistic identity

00:37:23.900 for longer than

00:37:24.580 most other

00:37:25.100 groups because

00:37:25.620 they tended to

00:37:26.480 settle in

00:37:26.880 relatively homogenous

00:37:28.140 areas but by

00:37:29.560 and large most

00:37:30.600 people today

00:37:31.580 most what you

00:37:32.100 might call white

00:37:32.760 ethnics in

00:37:33.900 United States

00:37:35.020 are and long

00:37:35.940 have been

00:37:36.840 American rather

00:37:38.740 than anything

00:37:39.800 else whatever

00:37:40.620 their origins

00:37:41.720 were 100 or

00:37:42.640 150 years ago

00:37:44.180 now in Europe

00:37:45.300 things are very

00:37:46.000 different

00:37:46.600 people retain

00:37:48.220 those national

00:37:49.140 identities not

00:37:50.780 least because

00:37:51.140 they retain

00:37:51.480 their linguistic

00:37:52.360 identities

00:37:53.220 I agree but

00:37:55.480 I also see the

00:37:56.800 arrow pointing in

00:37:58.060 the same direction

00:37:58.900 and I think in a

00:38:00.480 way many people

00:38:01.480 in America because

00:38:02.380 we have this

00:38:03.140 washed out

00:38:04.280 vague white

00:38:05.800 identity that

00:38:06.900 you know almost

00:38:08.060 has no meaning

00:38:08.820 you know you

00:38:09.200 could be a white

00:38:09.720 person and be a

00:38:11.080 rancher in

00:38:11.780 Montana or I

00:38:12.820 guess a white

00:38:13.260 person who's a

00:38:14.060 banker in New

00:38:15.100 York City

00:38:15.500 it doesn't

00:38:16.840 seem to have

00:38:17.420 that rootedness

00:38:18.480 and that

00:38:19.520 historical quality

00:38:20.920 to it that you

00:38:21.480 do see in

00:38:22.340 Europe where you

00:38:22.920 say you know

00:38:23.320 I'm Irish I'm

00:38:24.680 not just Irish I'm

00:38:25.320 from this town

00:38:26.040 and I get that

00:38:28.700 and I think that's

00:38:29.820 also something that's

00:38:30.660 very real I

00:38:32.200 actually live I

00:38:32.980 would say I live

00:38:33.840 in a small town

00:38:34.740 so I have a

00:38:37.000 certain although

00:38:38.040 I'm a bit of an

00:38:38.620 outsider I have a

00:38:39.840 sense of that

00:38:40.340 kind of you

00:38:41.080 could say

00:38:41.380 parochial rootedness

00:38:44.220 where you

00:38:44.820 distrust the

00:38:45.800 person who is a

00:38:47.040 15 minute drive

00:38:48.000 away which I

00:38:50.240 find a little

00:38:50.820 bit odd

00:38:51.160 it's a bit

00:38:52.280 different in

00:38:52.660 Europe though

00:38:53.160 it's not

00:38:53.640 distrusting or

00:38:55.140 whatever

00:38:55.560 I think a

00:38:56.860 very funny

00:38:57.420 story many

00:38:59.480 many years

00:39:00.100 ago in

00:39:00.740 Belgium I

00:39:02.220 met a

00:39:03.480 leading member

00:39:04.120 of what was

00:39:04.560 then called the

00:39:05.260 Flemish bloc

00:39:06.180 the Vlam's

00:39:06.800 bloc which is 0.99

00:39:07.480 another that

00:39:08.180 much more

00:39:09.360 genuinely than

00:39:10.260 the Scottish

00:39:10.620 National Party

00:39:11.400 it's an

00:39:11.660 ethno-nationalist

00:39:12.480 party and a

00:39:13.760 separatist party

00:39:15.000 and I was

00:39:16.940 discussing with

00:39:17.920 him in a

00:39:18.520 bar the

00:39:19.240 politics of

00:39:19.860 his party

00:39:20.360 and I said

00:39:20.700 to him

00:39:20.980 does your

00:39:22.300 party stand

00:39:23.520 for an

00:39:24.120 independent

00:39:24.700 Flanders or

00:39:26.380 do you believe

00:39:27.040 in the

00:39:27.320 reunification of

00:39:28.320 all people of

00:39:29.060 Dutch mother

00:39:29.760 tongue because 0.91

00:39:30.740 the Belgian

00:39:31.200 state was in

00:39:31.820 fact created by

00:39:32.420 the British

00:39:32.960 in I think

00:39:33.420 1830

00:39:34.500 taking away

00:39:36.580 land from

00:39:37.140 Holland and

00:39:38.220 the unity of

00:39:39.160 various provinces

00:39:40.140 at one spot

00:39:40.780 of time being

00:39:41.340 French to

00:39:42.200 Napoleon there

00:39:43.460 being French

00:39:43.980 to create the

00:39:45.020 modern Belgian

00:39:45.560 state and he

00:39:47.440 sort of beckoned

00:39:48.100 me with his

00:39:49.380 finger and said

00:39:50.040 don't speak too

00:39:52.540 loudly because I've

00:39:53.460 got many of my

00:39:54.240 comrades sitting

00:39:55.680 around me but

00:39:56.420 I'm going to tell

00:39:57.320 you he said

00:39:57.640 first of all what

00:39:59.040 our party's official

00:40:00.080 policy is and then

00:40:01.040 what I really think

00:40:02.320 our party's official

00:40:03.940 policy is that we

00:40:04.700 believe in the

00:40:05.140 reunification of all

00:40:06.420 people of Dutch

00:40:07.240 mother tongue

00:40:08.380 but when I go to

00:40:10.540 Holland and see

00:40:12.080 those degenerate 1.00

00:40:13.840 black loving he 1.00

00:40:15.640 actually used a

00:40:16.460 different word

00:40:17.460 then pro-Israeli

00:40:19.860 he actually used a

00:40:20.620 different word

00:40:21.380 then he went on

00:40:22.240 say drug sodden 0.99

00:40:23.360 pedophile 1.00

00:40:24.160 degenerate porn 1.00

00:40:25.720 addicted Dutch 1.00

00:40:27.120 I feel utterly 0.95

00:40:28.380 disgusted

00:40:29.040 when I go to the

00:40:30.440 Walloon province

00:40:31.180 which is the

00:40:31.980 French speaking

00:40:32.480 part of Belgium

00:40:33.220 I meet people

00:40:33.960 who are just like

00:40:34.680 me except they

00:40:35.520 speak French

00:40:36.260 like all confused

00:40:37.800 about my Flemish

00:40:38.780 nationalism and

00:40:39.500 begin to think the

00:40:40.260 Belgian state isn't 0.98

00:40:41.180 such a bad thing

00:40:42.200 after all

00:40:43.080 now that is

00:40:45.180 quite a funny

00:40:46.580 story

00:40:47.340 and I think in

00:40:48.700 fairness to the

00:40:49.500 Dutch it's much 0.96

00:40:50.500 more reflective of

00:40:51.300 1125 years ago

00:40:53.000 than now

00:40:53.540 there's been much

00:40:54.300 more of a reaction

00:40:55.120 against

00:40:56.080 multiracialism and

00:40:57.960 the general

00:40:58.540 extreme liberalism

00:41:00.220 that prevailed in

00:41:01.060 Holland

00:41:01.420 now

00:41:02.280 at least

00:41:02.840 to some extent

00:41:03.320 that has

00:41:03.900 but the

00:41:05.560 peculiarity in

00:41:06.460 Belgium is that 0.97

00:41:07.060 you could go

00:41:07.680 from one town

00:41:08.660 to the other

00:41:09.300 you can certainly

00:41:10.180 do this

00:41:10.960 in the Brussels

00:41:12.640 area

00:41:13.220 and you'll move

00:41:13.800 from a Dutch

00:41:14.340 speaking community

00:41:15.040 to a French

00:41:15.600 speaking community

00:41:16.480 where none of

00:41:17.740 the French

00:41:18.080 speakers can be

00:41:18.760 bothered to learn

00:41:19.540 Dutch

00:41:19.920 they just won't

00:41:20.500 do it

00:41:21.000 so you reach

00:41:22.360 an area which

00:41:22.780 is monolingual

00:41:23.680 that if you're

00:41:24.860 a speaker of

00:41:25.700 Dutch or Flemish

00:41:26.400 which are

00:41:26.680 essentially

00:41:27.020 barriers to the

00:41:28.100 same language

00:41:28.700 the local people

00:41:30.220 won't understand

00:41:30.800 a word that

00:41:31.240 you say

00:41:31.620 and you've

00:41:32.100 only gone

00:41:32.360 20 miles

00:41:33.000 or 10

00:41:33.740 now that

00:41:35.820 is extreme

00:41:36.980 in the region

00:41:38.220 of Brussels

00:41:38.720 for various

00:41:39.280 historic reasons

00:41:40.780 that region

00:41:41.280 was once

00:41:42.380 Dutch speaking

00:41:43.060 has become

00:41:43.780 very very

00:41:44.440 francophone

00:41:45.100 now

00:41:45.580 but you can

00:41:47.720 get that

00:41:48.160 to a lesser

00:41:48.600 extent

00:41:49.000 in other parts

00:41:49.840 of Europe

00:41:50.860 that you

00:41:51.220 literally

00:41:51.680 don't speak

00:41:52.260 the same

00:41:52.680 language

00:41:53.380 and that

00:41:55.260 naturally

00:41:56.580 causes the

00:41:58.500 national

00:41:59.080 differences

00:41:59.520 to persist

00:42:00.320 and that

00:42:00.900 is the

00:42:01.160 big difference

00:42:01.580 to the

00:42:01.780 United

00:42:02.020 States

00:42:02.640 if

00:42:03.680 communities

00:42:04.440 in the

00:42:05.420 United

00:42:05.680 States

00:42:06.020 had remained

00:42:06.940 German

00:42:07.360 speaking

00:42:07.960 Italian

00:42:08.700 speaking

00:42:09.360 or whatever

00:42:10.360 generation

00:42:11.480 after generation

00:42:12.260 after generation

00:42:13.180 then there

00:42:14.860 would not

00:42:15.420 be an

00:42:16.600 American

00:42:17.000 identity

00:42:17.720 right

00:42:18.680 supposing the

00:42:19.580 state of

00:42:19.920 Pennsylvania

00:42:20.340 was entirely

00:42:21.080 German

00:42:21.460 speaking

00:42:21.860 it was the

00:42:22.180 official

00:42:22.460 language

00:42:22.800 of the

00:42:23.100 state

00:42:23.460 and that

00:42:24.100 most people

00:42:24.480 in Pennsylvania

00:42:25.040 couldn't speak

00:42:25.660 German

00:42:26.120 its relations

00:42:27.840 with other

00:42:28.320 states

00:42:28.700 would be

00:42:28.980 rather difficult

00:42:29.700 to say

00:42:30.220 the least

00:42:30.780 there were

00:42:33.800 serious

00:42:34.380 religious

00:42:34.780 differences

00:42:35.380 in the

00:42:36.100 United States

00:42:36.600 in the

00:42:36.820 beginning

00:42:37.060 I mean

00:42:37.340 now we

00:42:37.880 have this

00:42:38.220 generic

00:42:38.860 Christianity

00:42:39.540 that seems

00:42:41.100 to

00:42:41.320 I could not

00:42:42.560 imagine

00:42:43.040 bloodshed

00:42:43.640 occurring

00:42:44.060 between

00:42:44.560 evangelical

00:42:45.640 Christians

00:42:46.240 or atheists

00:42:47.020 or Catholics 0.83

00:42:47.580 in the

00:42:47.880 United States

00:42:48.260 but in the

00:42:49.100 beginning

00:42:49.420 it was quite

00:42:49.840 different

00:42:50.140 that was

00:42:51.160 another

00:42:51.420 feature

00:42:51.900 of Europe

00:42:52.500 but that

00:42:52.920 one I

00:42:53.200 think

00:42:53.300 was imported

00:42:54.000 rather more

00:42:54.600 into the

00:42:54.900 US

00:42:55.080 but I mean

00:42:55.680 the United

00:42:56.120 States

00:42:56.440 as a

00:42:56.800 country

00:42:57.020 would not

00:42:57.520 have

00:42:57.840 evolved

00:42:58.660 had

00:42:59.540 different

00:43:00.260 states

00:43:00.960 had

00:43:01.400 different

00:43:01.880 languages

00:43:02.520 it could

00:43:04.240 have

00:43:04.580 happened

00:43:05.060 there was

00:43:06.320 a time

00:43:06.780 when there

00:43:07.120 were so

00:43:07.560 many

00:43:07.940 German

00:43:08.320 immigrants

00:43:08.740 in some

00:43:09.180 states

00:43:09.560 that German 0.70

00:43:10.100 might have

00:43:10.640 become

00:43:10.900 the official

00:43:11.300 language

00:43:11.620 of that

00:43:11.940 state

00:43:12.360 in other

00:43:13.100 states

00:43:13.400 there may

00:43:13.680 have

00:43:13.780 been

00:43:13.940 70

00:43:14.200 people

00:43:14.380 of Italian

00:43:14.860 descent

00:43:15.280 it was

00:43:15.540 conceivable

00:43:16.040 the Italian

00:43:16.540 language

00:43:16.920 would just

00:43:17.280 be spoken

00:43:17.720 generation

00:43:18.320 after

00:43:18.660 generation

00:43:19.540 and the

00:43:20.580 people

00:43:20.860 would not

00:43:21.580 assimilate

00:43:22.820 to an

00:43:23.140 English

00:43:23.420 speaking

00:43:23.900 majority

00:43:25.040 to some

00:43:25.720 extent

00:43:25.980 you can

00:43:26.320 see that

00:43:26.860 with the

00:43:27.240 huge

00:43:27.980 immigration

00:43:29.020 of Mexicans 0.95

00:43:29.920 into the

00:43:30.320 southwest

00:43:30.660 you can

00:43:31.480 now get

00:43:31.800 areas where

00:43:32.160 everyone speaks

00:43:32.700 Spanish

00:43:33.080 nobody speaks

00:43:33.900 English

00:43:34.260 it's quite

00:43:35.920 a striking

00:43:36.580 phenomenon

00:43:37.680 for a

00:43:38.200 foreigner

00:43:38.460 to see

00:43:38.980 this

00:43:39.240 the place

00:43:39.840 where

00:43:40.340 the entire

00:43:41.280 daily

00:43:42.120 business

00:43:42.540 is conducted

00:43:43.240 in Spanish

00:43:43.840 and you would

00:43:44.200 think that

00:43:44.480 you were in

00:43:44.720 Mexico

00:43:45.200 and not in

00:43:46.420 the United

00:43:46.840 States

00:43:47.480 of course

00:43:48.800 I know

00:43:49.080 it's complicated

00:43:49.640 by the fact

00:43:50.140 that once

00:43:50.540 those places

00:43:51.140 were Mexico

00:43:51.920 and not

00:43:52.360 the United

00:43:52.880 States

00:43:53.360 and that

00:43:54.860 has an

00:43:55.480 effect upon

00:43:56.180 how those

00:43:58.200 who have

00:43:58.520 come to

00:43:58.880 live there

00:43:59.280 perceive

00:43:59.760 their place

00:44:01.440 in that

00:44:01.780 society

00:44:02.220 I'm not

00:44:02.920 going to

00:44:03.220 enter into

00:44:03.600 that debate

00:44:04.040 which is

00:44:04.400 a debate

00:44:05.060 for Americans

00:44:05.680 but it

00:44:06.600 shows you

00:44:07.040 the difference

00:44:07.380 between

00:44:08.000 countries

00:44:08.840 which have

00:44:09.280 a single

00:44:10.100 overarching

00:44:10.620 identity

00:44:11.320 and the

00:44:12.520 continent

00:44:12.860 of Europe

00:44:13.440 which in

00:44:14.100 geographical

00:44:14.720 terms

00:44:15.420 is not so

00:44:16.000 very much

00:44:16.400 bigger than

00:44:16.780 the continental

00:44:17.280 United States

00:44:18.120 but has

00:44:18.700 dozens of

00:44:19.500 different

00:44:19.820 identities

00:44:20.380 yes I

00:44:22.340 totally agree

00:44:23.600 and I think

00:44:24.280 this is a

00:44:24.880 very complex

00:44:25.540 question

00:44:26.060 but I just

00:44:27.040 would also

00:44:27.700 reiterate

00:44:28.080 I think the

00:44:28.880 arrow is

00:44:29.400 pointing in

00:44:29.800 the same

00:44:30.060 direction

00:44:30.440 in Europe

00:44:31.140 I think

00:44:31.820 we are

00:44:32.900 it's happening

00:44:34.100 more slowly

00:44:34.700 but we are

00:44:35.460 seeing the

00:44:36.260 creation of

00:44:36.740 a kind of

00:44:37.040 European man

00:44:38.160 a homogenous

00:44:39.200 European man

00:44:40.060 someone who

00:44:40.580 they have a

00:44:41.140 lot more

00:44:41.640 in common

00:44:42.180 than they have

00:44:43.780 a lot more

00:44:44.740 common ground

00:44:45.320 than they have

00:44:45.880 divisions between

00:44:47.040 them

00:44:47.280 and certainly

00:44:48.340 in a way

00:44:49.200 the multiracialism

00:44:51.420 that has occurred

00:44:52.260 in the continent

00:44:52.860 due to mass

00:44:53.760 immigration

00:44:54.180 and in a way

00:44:55.120 due to

00:44:55.420 colonialism as

00:44:56.220 well

00:44:56.420 that that

00:44:58.200 heightens it

00:44:59.080 that when

00:45:00.320 you face

00:45:01.520 a

00:45:02.140 what's called

00:45:03.760 an Asian

00:45:04.200 in Britain

00:45:04.840 or someone

00:45:05.440 from the

00:45:06.040 Middle East

00:45:06.580 or someone

00:45:07.300 from Africa

00:45:08.040 you become 0.81

00:45:09.460 whiter

00:45:10.260 you know

00:45:11.400 from the eyes

00:45:12.360 of an African

00:45:13.820 you aren't

00:45:14.980 you know

00:45:15.300 Salmond

00:45:15.960 is not a

00:45:16.920 Scot

00:45:17.340 he's a

00:45:18.420 white person

00:45:19.200 and in a

00:45:20.600 way America

00:45:21.420 had that

00:45:22.520 that kind of

00:45:23.500 encounter

00:45:24.160 earlier

00:45:25.180 due to

00:45:26.440 just the

00:45:27.120 nature of

00:45:27.480 the continent

00:45:27.940 and quite

00:45:29.040 frankly

00:45:29.480 some conflicts

00:45:30.640 that were

00:45:31.000 race wars

00:45:31.700 and again

00:45:33.420 I'm not saying

00:45:34.460 that to say

00:45:34.920 these were

00:45:35.240 great

00:45:35.860 I think

00:45:36.320 I actually

00:45:37.460 have a certain

00:45:38.040 romantic

00:45:38.580 attachment

00:45:39.340 to American

00:45:40.680 Indians

00:45:41.040 who I think

00:45:41.740 deserve to

00:45:42.860 have a

00:45:43.120 homeland

00:45:43.400 and a

00:45:43.880 culture

00:45:44.180 all their

00:45:44.540 own

00:45:44.760 but

00:45:45.040 nevertheless

00:45:45.680 there was

00:45:46.520 an encounter

00:45:47.800 that created

00:45:49.480 a certain

00:45:49.880 kind of

00:45:50.180 whiteness

00:45:50.620 and I think

00:45:51.140 maybe that

00:45:51.720 is now

00:45:52.120 happening

00:45:52.980 in Europe

00:45:54.100 and also

00:45:54.740 there's so

00:45:55.640 many things

00:45:56.260 that push 0.84

00:45:56.660 us together

00:45:57.120 English

00:45:58.060 as a

00:45:59.220 lingua franca

00:45:59.880 and I'm not

00:46:00.400 saying that

00:46:00.840 as I'm

00:46:01.200 an American

00:46:01.700 you know

00:46:02.240 I'm one

00:46:02.640 of these

00:46:02.860 tourists

00:46:03.200 you know

00:46:03.520 can you

00:46:04.140 put some

00:46:04.420 more ice

00:46:05.080 in my

00:46:05.360 water

00:46:05.680 and speak

00:46:06.360 English

00:46:06.700 I'm not

00:46:07.320 trying to

00:46:07.600 be that

00:46:07.820 way

00:46:07.980 but we

00:46:08.320 can now

00:46:08.640 communicate

00:46:09.260 with

00:46:10.020 Russians

00:46:10.640 we can

00:46:11.660 communicate

00:46:12.020 with

00:46:12.400 French

00:46:13.280 people

00:46:13.740 we can

00:46:14.060 communicate

00:46:14.380 with

00:46:14.580 Italians 0.69

00:46:14.820 don't

00:46:15.980 overestimate

00:46:16.760 that

00:46:17.680 anyone

00:46:19.160 who believes

00:46:20.820 that English

00:46:21.340 is a universal

00:46:22.260 language

00:46:22.920 should try

00:46:23.640 to buy a

00:46:24.140 railway ticket

00:46:24.860 at a provincial

00:46:25.580 station in

00:46:26.380 France

00:46:26.900 and see

00:46:27.280 how far

00:46:27.860 they get

00:46:28.580 now

00:46:29.360 now while

00:46:29.700 the French

00:46:30.900 are the 1.00

00:46:31.200 second worst

00:46:32.060 people in

00:46:32.480 Europe

00:46:32.700 after the

00:46:33.220 English

00:46:33.540 at learning

00:46:34.160 foreign

00:46:34.560 languages

00:46:35.120 you would

00:46:36.240 not get

00:46:36.760 terribly

00:46:37.260 far

00:46:37.760 in

00:46:37.980 provincial

00:46:38.420 Germany

00:46:39.040 or

00:46:39.280 provincial

00:46:39.740 Spain

00:46:40.340 either

00:46:40.880 it is not

00:46:41.600 just the

00:46:42.340 case of the

00:46:42.780 English

00:46:43.020 and the

00:46:43.300 French

00:46:43.540 having been

00:46:44.020 colonial

00:46:44.360 peoples

00:46:44.860 are used

00:46:45.200 to others

00:46:45.540 speaking

00:46:45.880 their

00:46:46.140 languages

00:46:46.640 believe

00:46:47.840 you me

00:46:48.540 that is

00:46:49.300 an

00:46:49.480 exaggerated

00:46:50.160 phenomenon

00:46:50.820 a small

00:46:52.260 elite

00:46:52.740 particularly

00:46:53.240 a business

00:46:53.820 and political

00:46:54.540 elite

00:46:55.080 speaking

00:46:55.940 English

00:46:56.320 so well

00:46:56.860 you would

00:46:57.180 think

00:46:57.420 it was

00:46:57.800 their

00:46:58.080 first

00:46:58.500 language

00:46:59.120 to a

00:47:00.680 remarkable

00:47:01.160 standard

00:47:01.740 in most

00:47:03.440 European

00:47:03.860 countries

00:47:04.540 particularly

00:47:04.940 the Scandinavian

00:47:05.740 countries

00:47:06.460 in Netherlands

00:47:07.480 to a slightly

00:47:08.100 lesser extent

00:47:08.860 in Germany

00:47:09.700 in southern

00:47:11.300 Europe

00:47:11.600 it is certainly

00:47:12.160 not so

00:47:13.060 and

00:47:14.380 it will be

00:47:15.660 interesting

00:47:16.080 to see

00:47:16.800 whether

00:47:17.480 this

00:47:18.040 phenomenon

00:47:18.640 of English

00:47:20.320 as a

00:47:20.600 lingua franca

00:47:21.200 actually

00:47:22.100 continues

00:47:24.140 for example

00:47:26.020 it would be

00:47:26.200 interesting to see

00:47:26.740 whether German

00:47:27.580 undergoes any

00:47:28.380 kind of revival

00:47:29.180 as a commercial

00:47:29.880 language in

00:47:30.440 Eastern Europe

00:47:31.000 up to 1945

00:47:32.160 it was the

00:47:33.320 language of

00:47:33.820 business in

00:47:34.360 Eastern Europe

00:47:34.880 across the

00:47:35.420 board

00:47:35.860 that passed

00:47:38.800 with the

00:47:39.920 changes that

00:47:40.820 happened

00:47:41.420 there

00:47:42.780 the extension

00:47:43.600 of Russian

00:47:44.740 domination

00:47:45.440 over the

00:47:45.780 whole of

00:47:46.120 Eastern Europe

00:47:46.840 but with

00:47:48.100 the end

00:47:48.720 of the

00:47:49.300 Soviet

00:47:49.680 Empire

00:47:50.520 English

00:47:51.400 became

00:47:52.020 the new

00:47:52.680 preferred

00:47:53.240 language

00:47:53.860 of

00:47:54.780 international

00:47:55.580 trade

00:47:58.500 and of

00:47:59.440 politics

00:48:00.100 I say

00:48:00.680 whether that

00:48:01.520 will

00:48:01.940 necessarily

00:48:02.780 continue

00:48:03.860 or whether

00:48:04.560 German economic

00:48:05.500 dominance

00:48:06.040 which is very

00:48:06.780 significant now

00:48:07.580 in some of

00:48:07.940 these countries

00:48:08.500 again

00:48:08.980 will lead to

00:48:10.020 a revival

00:48:10.540 of interest

00:48:11.200 in German

00:48:11.680 remains to be

00:48:12.920 seen

00:48:13.300 it wouldn't

00:48:14.240 necessarily

00:48:14.700 surprise me

00:48:15.320 if that

00:48:15.540 happened

00:48:15.860 at least

00:48:16.180 to some

00:48:16.520 extent

00:48:17.020 particularly

00:48:18.240 if for

00:48:18.940 example

00:48:19.340 our

00:48:19.960 British

00:48:20.240 government

00:48:20.640 joins the

00:48:21.180 Americans

00:48:21.640 in a

00:48:24.080 kind of

00:48:24.420 new

00:48:24.680 cold war

00:48:25.360 with Russia

00:48:25.980 in which

00:48:26.400 we're engaged

00:48:26.960 in perpetual

00:48:27.600 political

00:48:28.480 and economic

00:48:29.520 if not

00:48:30.220 thankfully

00:48:30.840 military

00:48:31.440 confrontations

00:48:32.480 with Russia

00:48:33.040 I don't know

00:48:34.660 that remains

00:48:35.260 to be seen

00:48:37.300 it's one of the

00:48:38.580 things that will

00:48:39.040 play out over

00:48:39.700 the next

00:48:40.140 ten years

00:48:41.400 as British

00:48:41.940 and American

00:48:42.520 policy

00:48:43.380 confronted by

00:48:46.380 a more

00:48:46.680 assertive

00:48:47.440 and self

00:48:48.080 confident

00:48:48.540 and wealthier

00:48:49.280 Russia

00:48:49.740 creates a

00:48:52.040 new

00:48:52.560 frontier

00:48:53.580 of tension

00:48:54.260 within Europe

00:48:55.140 well yes

00:48:56.320 in a way

00:48:57.200 there would be

00:48:57.660 some benefits

00:48:58.300 if Washington

00:49:00.620 continues down

00:49:01.400 the course

00:49:01.760 that it's going

00:49:02.340 and trying

00:49:03.140 to create

00:49:03.600 a neo

00:49:04.160 cold war

00:49:04.900 and people

00:49:05.600 react

00:49:05.980 they start

00:49:06.820 speaking German

00:49:07.500 we could all

00:49:07.960 become more

00:49:08.460 philosophical

00:49:09.020 well that

00:49:10.220 would be

00:49:10.500 very amusing

00:49:12.020 it could

00:49:12.500 certainly

00:49:13.400 lead to

00:49:14.240 a situation

00:49:14.920 in which

00:49:16.360 as I say

00:49:19.380 we could

00:49:19.940 see some

00:49:21.000 possible

00:49:22.480 retreat

00:49:23.500 of English

00:49:24.020 from its

00:49:24.340 position

00:49:25.660 in international

00:49:26.660 lingua franca

00:49:27.500 I do think

00:49:28.180 that's terribly

00:49:29.060 likely

00:49:29.700 I think

00:49:30.220 it's now

00:49:30.540 too well

00:49:31.480 established

00:49:32.000 in business

00:49:33.400 in science

00:49:35.480 in many

00:49:37.020 other areas

00:49:37.980 as the

00:49:38.520 language

00:49:39.260 that everybody

00:49:40.560 shares

00:49:41.280 for that

00:49:42.120 to happen

00:49:43.260 but I don't

00:49:44.240 rule anything

00:49:45.120 out

00:49:46.080 if

00:49:47.980 as I say

00:49:48.860 we see a

00:49:50.000 situation

00:49:50.360 in which

00:49:50.580 the Anglosphere

00:49:51.660 is

00:49:53.140 engaged

00:49:55.560 in some

00:49:56.060 kind of

00:49:56.520 new

00:49:56.820 cold war

00:49:57.480 that goes

00:49:58.060 on for

00:49:58.520 a long

00:49:59.260 time

00:50:00.120 with

00:50:01.960 Russia

00:50:03.320 whereas

00:50:04.460 continental

00:50:05.100 European

00:50:05.620 countries

00:50:06.040 are much

00:50:06.340 more reluctant

00:50:06.940 to become

00:50:07.400 involved

00:50:07.840 in that

00:50:08.340 I agree

00:50:10.040 well Adrian

00:50:10.920 this has

00:50:12.040 really been

00:50:12.540 a fascinating

00:50:13.100 discussion

00:50:13.600 and although

00:50:14.040 I would

00:50:14.380 like to

00:50:15.000 continue it

00:50:15.560 why don't

00:50:15.780 we just

00:50:16.040 put a

00:50:16.400 bookmark

00:50:16.860 in it

00:50:17.200 and

00:50:17.700 it's been

00:50:18.740 an hour

00:50:19.340 which is

00:50:19.800 quite long

00:50:20.200 enough

00:50:20.400 for a

00:50:20.700 podcast

00:50:21.060 and we

00:50:21.780 shall have

00:50:22.080 another

00:50:22.420 in due

00:50:23.160 course

00:50:23.680 I think

00:50:24.420 we should

00:50:24.760 because we

00:50:25.180 didn't even

00:50:25.700 get to a

00:50:26.720 lot of the

00:50:27.160 other issues

00:50:27.800 that I

00:50:28.080 wanted to

00:50:28.440 talk about

00:50:28.960 and I

00:50:30.160 think it

00:50:30.520 actually would

00:50:30.980 be good

00:50:31.260 to talk

00:50:31.640 about the

00:50:32.320 legacy of the

00:50:33.340 first world

00:50:33.760 war which I

00:50:34.340 know you've

00:50:34.660 spoken on

00:50:35.700 so

00:50:36.440 I'm going to

00:50:37.120 speak on

00:50:37.660 next week

00:50:38.760 with Mark

00:50:40.840 Webber and

00:50:41.500 Greg Johnson

00:50:42.200 and others

00:50:42.820 so it's going to

00:50:43.340 be a very

00:50:43.680 interesting meeting

00:50:44.980 we'll continue

00:50:46.420 this discussion

00:50:47.340 on another

00:50:48.020 occasion

00:50:48.380 it's been

00:50:48.760 most interesting

00:50:50.120 and I hope

00:50:53.160 that you have a

00:50:53.520 very successful

00:50:54.100 conference in

00:50:54.860 Budapest

00:50:55.400 I look forward

00:50:55.960 to hearing all

00:50:56.500 about it

00:50:57.400 yes likewise

00:50:58.200 I hope this is

00:50:59.460 the first of

00:51:00.100 many and this

00:51:00.760 becomes an

00:51:01.320 annual or at

00:51:02.160 least a

00:51:02.520 biennial

00:51:03.220 fixture

00:51:03.820 I think it

00:51:04.520 could be a

00:51:04.840 very considerable

00:51:05.360 success

00:51:06.020 I certainly

00:51:07.260 wish you

00:51:07.640 every success

00:51:08.280 with it

00:51:08.820 it would be

00:51:09.560 a very good

00:51:10.040 thing if you

00:51:11.280 create a

00:51:11.980 forum in

00:51:12.920 which some

00:51:13.500 of the more

00:51:15.140 interesting and

00:51:16.020 original thinkers

00:51:16.900 in Europe and

00:51:17.580 America can mix

00:51:18.720 together which

00:51:19.680 is very very

00:51:20.800 important

00:51:21.860 I'd leave you

00:51:23.820 with this

00:51:24.940 thought that

00:51:25.580 many people

00:51:26.200 in England

00:51:27.400 are very impressed

00:51:28.440 with the

00:51:28.800 intellectual quality

00:51:30.020 of some of

00:51:30.880 the younger

00:51:31.180 people who are

00:51:32.180 coming up in

00:51:32.760 the movement

00:51:33.220 in America

00:51:34.440 we have here

00:51:35.760 I think far

00:51:36.520 more frankly

00:51:37.600 electoral success

00:51:39.540 than any

00:51:39.980 nationalist

00:51:40.360 movement has

00:51:40.680 ever had in

00:51:41.200 America

00:51:41.620 and far more

00:51:43.520 ability to

00:51:44.640 organize politically

00:51:45.480 successfully

00:51:46.240 on the other

00:51:47.500 hand you have

00:51:49.220 a much much

00:51:50.540 livelier

00:51:51.700 intellectual

00:51:53.260 nationalist

00:51:53.880 scene in

00:51:54.600 the United

00:51:54.920 States than

00:51:55.600 we do in

00:51:56.180 England

00:51:56.600 there are

00:51:59.400 other countries

00:51:59.980 in Europe

00:52:00.300 France obviously

00:52:01.140 is one

00:52:01.840 where this

00:52:03.300 tradition is

00:52:03.900 very well

00:52:04.320 developed

00:52:05.060 in England

00:52:06.460 since the

00:52:07.320 second world

00:52:07.860 war it has

00:52:08.540 tended to be

00:52:09.140 rather sterile

00:52:10.360 rather backward

00:52:11.240 looking

00:52:11.780 imperialistic

00:52:12.960 chauvinistic

00:52:13.720 and so on

00:52:14.300 with very very

00:52:14.880 little originality

00:52:15.840 or creativity

00:52:16.360 of thought

00:52:16.920 so we have

00:52:18.060 much to learn

00:52:18.840 from people

00:52:19.800 in the United

00:52:20.340 States

00:52:21.080 as in other

00:52:23.680 respects I think

00:52:24.820 there are things

00:52:26.140 also that we

00:52:26.740 can teach

00:52:27.380 and with all

00:52:28.160 European countries

00:52:29.400 everybody has

00:52:30.840 had a somewhat

00:52:31.220 different experience

00:52:32.040 the interaction

00:52:32.760 between the two

00:52:33.860 and the ability

00:52:34.900 to learn from

00:52:35.560 one another

00:52:35.880 and exchange ideas

00:52:36.700 is immensely

00:52:37.160 valuable

00:52:37.680 I think your

00:52:38.640 Budapest conference

00:52:39.360 will be very

00:52:41.480 important in this

00:52:42.560 respect

00:52:42.980 I sincerely hope

00:52:44.720 as I say

00:52:45.120 it will be the

00:52:45.600 first of many

00:52:46.340 well yes

00:52:47.240 and the next one

00:52:47.960 you can speak at

00:52:48.880 I hope

00:52:49.640 well I'm invited

00:52:51.020 I should be

00:52:51.400 delighted to come

00:52:52.120 sounds good

00:52:53.020 well thank you

00:52:53.800 thank you very much

00:52:54.220 Richard

00:52:54.560 and we've set up

00:52:55.740 a Skype link

00:52:56.540 it obviously works

00:52:57.260 extremely well

00:52:57.860 and we'll do this

00:52:58.360 again

00:52:58.700 absolutely

00:52:59.400 thanks

00:52:59.980 thank you

00:53:00.360 speak soon

00:53:01.060 talk to you soon

00:53:19.640 thanks

00:53:29.160 bye

00:53:30.340 bye

00:53:32.740 you

00:53:33.100 goodbye

00:53:34.120 so

00:53:53.240 so

00:54:04.120 Thank you.

00:54:34.120 Thank you.

00:55:04.120 Thank you.

00:55:34.120 Thank you.

00:56:04.120 Thank you.

RadixJournal - September 21, 2014

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