RadixJournal - Christmas in Berlin

00:00:00.000 Manuel Oxenreiter, welcome back. It's been too long since you've been on the podcast. How are you?

00:00:06.140 I'm very fine. Thank you so much.

00:00:08.600 Good. Well, were you in Berlin during the recent attack?

00:00:13.280 Yes, I was. And, well, it was quite interesting that eventually happened what every normal person who has his senses together expected, but neither the government nor the mainstream media admitted that it will happen one day.

00:00:38.800 Right. It's predictable. The how and the when is unpredictable.

00:00:43.280 But the what is predictable. And that is that someone who apparently, again, I think the manhunt for him is still ongoing as we record this.

00:00:55.280 But the man they are searching for is from Tunisia, I believe. And he did come to Germany during the summer of 2015.

00:01:05.680 So this is a consequence of the refugee crisis and Germany's, you know, taking sovereign responsibility and in Angela Merkel's words to for the refugees.

00:01:19.280 Yes, it is. But this whole case became now quite chaotic.

00:01:30.500 Well, because, first of all, they arrested a Pakistani guy who came also as a refugee who crossed the German border in December last year, 31st of December 2015 at Passau.

00:01:46.140 This is the Austrian-German border.

00:01:48.140 There he was registered and he was interrogated by the police for several hours or the whole night.

00:01:55.460 And it was said that he was quite known by the police, of course, a very questionable status like for, I would think, the most so-called refugees who are in reality illegal migrants coming to Germany.

00:02:14.720 I don't also know if he really was fleeing from a war or he was really fleeing from violence or, I mean, the whole case is very questionable.

00:02:24.660 Then they had to release him because it was said that he had, first of all, a sort of alibi and they didn't find any traces of the crime.

00:02:39.320 And now they are looking for this Tunisian guy, what is quite interesting, because it was said that they found his ID, his refugee ID in the cabin of the truck.

00:02:52.860 So, of course, this reminds us also a little bit with 9-11, but still just to end this.

00:02:59.680 So, now he's on the run and the police, the police is somehow looking for him.

00:03:04.780 And we all asked ourselves, why were they not looking for the person where they found coincidentally an ID in the cabin of the truck before?

00:03:14.000 And this is now just the latest news.

00:03:16.640 And I hope you are sitting because otherwise you will fall because of laughing.

00:03:20.940 The police said they couldn't start the search in that way they should because there were orthographic mistakes in the papers for the search.

00:03:35.040 So, that is the situation.

00:03:38.340 One might say this is bureaucracy on the tip or it is something else.

00:03:43.780 I don't know.

00:03:44.300 This is totally chaotic.

00:03:45.500 And we are all ardently now waiting until they found the guy.

00:03:49.700 They are putting now money on his head, 100,000 euros for whoever delivers the decisive information to catch him.

00:04:01.620 So, you see, we live in a CSI movie right now or in a crime movie.

00:04:06.500 Everything is a little bit thriller.

00:04:08.580 We hear sometimes helicopters over our heads.

00:04:11.680 We have politicians who say that we shouldn't fear and we have journalists who say that the biggest danger of this terrorist attack is, of course, not terrorism, but it is the rise of the far right.

00:04:25.940 So, we live in, as I said, in a crime thriller or in a comedy or in both of them.

00:04:33.820 I don't know.

00:04:34.760 We will see how it goes on.

00:04:36.020 Yeah, it's a little bit of all of these things, and there might be a little bit of a conspiracy theory thrown in, a conspiracy thriller.

00:04:43.460 I don't want to sound like I have a tinfoil cap, but I agree.

00:04:47.880 Some of these finding of IDs everywhere also strikes me as a little strange, but sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

00:04:57.060 So, just leave it at that.

00:04:59.220 Yes, I didn't want now to say it's true or it's not true, but it's just very puzzled again.

00:05:10.260 And, you know, when you hear one answer of our authorities, in reality, they open the box of many, many more questions.

00:05:20.240 And, of course, it is strange.

00:05:24.000 It is not excluded that someone leaves his ID at the crime scene. 1.00

00:05:30.100 This is, you know, we have idiots everywhere and maybe every culture and every people and every religion has its idiots. 1.00

00:05:38.600 Who knows better than we do in our countries? 1.00

00:05:41.600 But, of course, of course, it rises many, many questions, and I don't want to be now a coffee cup reader, but for me, the whole thing sounds a little bit like when they find him, there will be a shooting and the guy will be dead or he will commit suicide.

00:06:02.360 Something strange might happen.

00:06:06.100 Hopefully, hopefully, I'm wrong, and hopefully we will witness then a real trial.

00:06:12.020 But just saying, I have sometimes, and this is maybe now a little bit tinfoil like what I say, but when we see how our state is dealing with terrorism within the last years, and I'm not just speaking about Islamist terrorism, I'm also speaking about the NSU case.

00:06:31.000 I think you heard in the US as well, this is the so-called neo-Nazi terrorist group, which was arrested some years ago, and the trial is still going on.

00:06:44.080 There are so many things unclear, and there are, and I'm not, this is not conspiracy theory.

00:06:49.880 You know, they see that on the mobile phone, there was called many, many times an intel officer, for example, and this is all evidence.

00:07:00.120 There is no tinfoil conspiracy theory behind it.

00:07:03.780 I think in many, many cases, our state officials don't have a big interest in a very clear investigation, which makes the results public.

00:07:13.240 Yes, and that is true about if the alleged perpetrator of this terrible crime is just shot at the scene, trying to escape or commit suicide, then that does give some closure, as people like to say, to the case.

00:07:27.580 But it also means that further investigations wouldn't take place, like who was the person exactly, whom was he in contact with, and so on.

00:07:35.460 I want to just to give one sentence before it really sounds like tinfoil.

00:07:41.820 I mean, what could be one interest?

00:07:44.320 Yes, yes, it's important.

00:07:45.860 What could be one interest?

00:07:47.580 You know, what would happen?

00:07:49.760 Imagine if it would come out as we had it in Europe in many cases of terrorism also, or especially when it came to Islamist terrorism.

00:07:58.500 When it comes out that this person was maybe in touch with our intel or with another European intel or with your glorious US-American intel as an informant, that when it comes out that that person was cooperating or maybe our intel thought he was cooperating with them for a long time.

00:08:18.920 And this is, by the way, something what we had as well in the London metro attack, what we had in Madrid at the terror attack.

00:08:30.360 So at least here we know also already that the guy was known by the police.

00:08:36.800 And when I see what crimes are connected with these people, also, by the way, with the Pakistani guy they were having first, I ask myself, why are these people still in my country? 0.98

00:08:48.340 You know, one should ask, how can it be that this person is there?

00:08:52.760 And they do, as these are all just minor criminal cases and so on.

00:08:56.820 But then all of a sudden they speak about harassment.

00:09:00.100 They speak, well, about a real criminal career.

00:09:05.260 So the question is very legit to ask, why are these people in this country, why they were not deported already many months ago?

00:09:13.880 Why were they not not accepted at the registration?

00:09:18.420 Now, this is these are all legit questions connected to these cases.

00:09:22.360 Oh, let me just say two more things before we move on from these questions, because I do want to talk more about the symbolism of the act.

00:09:30.140 And I want to talk a little about Turkey, but just two quick two things real quick.

00:09:33.320 First off, this person in the reports that I've read has weapons training, which he received from ISIS.

00:09:41.760 So I would be interesting to learn if he received that training from U.S. officials or U.S. funded people in the in the Syrian conflict and other conflicts in the United States in the in the Middle East.

00:09:55.560 That's a that's a that's an interesting question.

00:09:57.260 The other thing from a report that I read is that he was actually denied asylum, but he was allowed to remain on some, you know, aptly termed tolerance.

00:10:12.460 This is what I'm speaking about. Exactly that. Exactly.

00:10:16.620 So how how how can that be?

00:10:19.660 Right. So, again, it just I think what did Angela Merkel say in her statement?

00:10:24.760 You know, we know how painful this would be if we discover that, you know, he's he was seeking asylum and how painful it would be to all those good asylum seekers who are trying to be Germans or something like that.

00:10:37.340 It's very similar to in the United States.

00:10:40.360 There was a a general named George Casey, who after one of these it was the Fort Hood shooting where a Muslim man who was actually employed by the U.S. Army, you know, shot dozens of people.

00:10:55.820 This was back in 2009, I believe is a terrible incident.

00:11:00.380 And General Casey said, well, you know, if if diversity is the casualty of the shooting, that that would be much worse than the mass murder that just took place.

00:11:10.000 So if we should work for the German government, he's perfect. 0.99

00:11:14.120 So apparently losing our faith in diversity is worse than mass murder.

00:11:20.120 And this, Richard, may never happen to you and me.

00:11:23.780 So good that we speak now about that.

00:11:26.160 Yes. Yes.

00:11:27.920 Well, let me let's back up a little bit.

00:11:31.460 And I think it's worth talking about the symbolism of this act.

00:11:37.120 And I'll just mention one thing.

00:11:38.680 I don't believe I've ever been to the I've never been to a Berlin Christmas market.

00:11:44.780 But I actually have been to the Munich market and the Vienna market many times.

00:11:51.860 I wonder if Germany will allow me into the country at this point.

00:11:55.380 So maybe maybe I'll only have my memories.

00:11:58.560 But but they're really beautiful things.

00:12:02.620 And, you know, a lot of people like to talk about, you know, secular Europe and Christian America.

00:12:08.020 That was a meme throughout the Bush era.

00:12:11.520 And I often had a I almost thought that that was reversed a little bit.

00:12:18.480 And that I and I know that there are many more atheist or or non-affiliated people in Europe than there are in the United States.

00:12:26.880 Nevertheless, when I was in in Germany and in Europe during Christmas time, there was something particularly special about it.

00:12:37.080 The Christmas market really is a symbol of community and the season, both both Christian and pagan, you could say.

00:12:45.380 And it was really an amazing thing.

00:12:47.660 And so there these acts are symbolic.

00:12:50.640 They aren't just as targeted assassinations or so on.

00:12:55.000 Obviously, the World Trade Center was symbolic.

00:12:57.520 This this this I would say the Cologne rape scandal.

00:13:02.000 I don't I doubt that that was planned. 1.00

00:13:04.260 I think that that was just idiots being idiots and abusing women on New Year's Eve. 1.00

00:13:10.540 But there was something symbolic. 1.00

00:13:11.920 It took place literally in the shadow of a great Gothic cathedral.

00:13:16.420 But but but Richard, our mainstream media informed us that Vladimir Putin plotted all that.

00:13:21.840 We know we know much better. 0.96

00:13:23.120 So I just assume he was the one raping those women. 0.97

00:13:27.720 I mean, he was he was the one who cloned himself and put a wig on and did it himself. 0.99

00:13:33.380 I'm convinced.

00:13:34.120 Yes.

00:13:35.300 He and Bashar al-Assad.

00:13:36.640 They these two.

00:13:37.780 They were they were the guys.

00:13:39.020 No, I mean, seriously, this this was after Cologne, really, in mainstream media.

00:13:46.040 You could read that.

00:13:46.760 And this is why I said in the beginning, and again, you don't know where you live.

00:13:53.300 You live in a thriller.

00:13:54.360 You live in a in a in a movie comedy or in a very sarcastic Franz Kafka esque tragedy.

00:14:06.740 This is really I mean, but it's reality around us.

00:14:09.420 It's also reality around us, how politicians are reacting on that.

00:14:13.740 And when it comes to the symbolism, of course, the Christmas market, even in Berlin, it is still called Christmas market.

00:14:21.060 Although we have ironically in many German communities the debate if it should be renamed in the winter market, not to bother those who are not Christians.

00:14:31.540 And by the way, this has to be said in this context.

00:14:35.020 Those ideas never come from the Muslim community, the Muslim community. 0.98

00:14:40.900 If you go to Berlin and you look where the Muslim community is living, especially in Kreuzberg and in Neukölln, you will never find anywhere else so much Christmas lights and all this bling bling. 0.96

00:14:51.620 And, you know, where maybe again, Angela Merkel might get epileptic shock when she sees all these colors and Christmas trees.

00:15:02.400 So I would say these guys even love somehow this whole Christmas thing with all the lights.

00:15:08.320 It's a very small, radical minority of them who are somehow totally against it.

00:15:14.780 But the real problem are our own liberals.

00:15:19.800 These are the people who are attacking all these traditions.

00:15:24.180 So they say we cannot call it Christmas market not to hurt the feelings of those who are not Christians among us and so on.

00:15:33.200 These people are the real problem.

00:15:34.940 But that was now just a little side comedy of the main comedy.

00:15:40.540 And when it comes to the Christmas markets in Berlin, they are – I think you would be disappointed if you compare a Christmas market in Berlin with a Christmas market in Munich or in Vienna because it is a very secular thing.

00:15:53.760 But still, it is, of course, a community thing.

00:15:56.740 People go there with their families after work or with their colleagues.

00:16:00.480 They love to drink then a Glühwein, which is, I think, an English, a malt wine.

00:16:07.440 Hot spice wine.

00:16:08.220 Yes, exactly.

00:16:10.020 I'm not wrong.

00:16:10.860 So it has, of course, this community spirit.

00:16:13.880 You can even eat your döner at the Christmas market in Berlin because it is also sold there.

00:16:19.880 So the religious aspect is, in my opinion, very, very small.

00:16:25.300 There are some smaller Christmas markets which are organized by, for example, by the Catholic Church or the Protestant Church, which have, of course, more the religious aspect.

00:16:35.420 But this Christmas market at the Breitscheidplatz where the terrorist attack happened is maybe not the master religious aspect.

00:16:47.080 But, of course, it has the community aspect.

00:16:50.060 It is one of the events where people love to go, where they go, where they spend time, and where they feel secure.

00:16:59.700 Until now, the biggest danger of these markets were most probably the pickpockets coming from the Balkans. 1.00

00:17:08.320 So these were maybe the guys you were watching out, but not so much terrorism, although everyone had already somehow a bad feeling about what will come upon us after the so-called refugee crisis started.

00:17:22.780 And after ISIS said very clearly that they will send terrorists disguised as refugees to Germany and to whole Europe.

00:17:32.360 And since we know, and I mean, I'm a journalist and we have our own sources in diverse refugee camps in Germany, that there are very open celebrations for terrorist groups as ISIS and Shabbat al-Nusra and that there are singing chants of beheading Christians.

00:17:51.600 And all these things are happening under the eyes of our government and I would also say under the eyes of our mainstream media.

00:17:59.040 But, of course, it is a little bit shameful and you don't report about it and you don't criticize it because diversity could be the biggest victim of that.

00:18:11.260 So also here, diversity is more important than safety.

00:18:14.860 So the symbolism, the symbolism is very, very clearly against that people feel safe in public squares.

00:18:23.680 I think that is the main important aspect.

00:18:28.080 The religious aspect is maybe not as big as it might seem outside, but maybe the terrorist had this religious aspect in his mind when he did that.

00:18:41.860 That is the thing I think it's very likely because a Christmas market is still a Christmas market.

00:18:47.560 And, of course, it might be in his religious ideology a thing which is totally halal and where it is totally justified to bring a truck there and to kill dozens of people if he is successful. 0.96

00:18:59.840 Right. I mean, it's a cultural clash no matter how you think about it.

00:19:04.840 And even if it were totally unconscious, the fact is that a Christmas market is a symbol of Europe, it is interesting how we've come this far.

00:19:16.040 I mean, I can certainly remember the George W. Bush era where you had insurgents and terrorism and so on.

00:19:24.220 And that could be seen as – and I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this.

00:19:29.840 I do think there's a kernel of truth to this.

00:19:31.520 But this could be seen as a response to the American empire as blowback, so-called, where people – they are attacking the Pentagon and the World Trade Center.

00:19:43.380 Where American soldiers are being maimed and killed in the Middle East by insurgents who are mad at them for perhaps justifiable reasons.

00:19:53.920 But this is something different, what we see here.

00:19:58.180 I mean, Germany is not directly related to any of these conflicts.

00:20:03.480 It's kind of on the outskirts of, say, the Iraq War, the Syrian conflict, or all these kinds of things.

00:20:09.400 Germany bent over backwards to welcome refugees.

00:20:14.480 I mean, they went well beyond the call of duty in accepting these people.

00:20:20.640 And yet there still is this inevitable clash.

00:20:27.060 And also Germans did it in a different way than, say, Americans or even French.

00:20:34.460 The French who have – we have these kind of proposition nation citizenship ideals, civilizational ideals.

00:20:42.440 The German situation is very different because, you know, German consciousness after 1945 does seem to be this negative consciousness of – based on guilt.

00:20:53.480 And, you know, in a way, we can never purge the guilt of Hitler that it's this – you know, a – yeah, and I – it's a sad thing. 0.78

00:21:03.040 But even Germany are being attacked in this way.

00:21:08.980 I don't know – what would you say about the psyche of an average German?

00:21:15.280 I mean, is there a sense – you know, is there a sense that there's nothing you can do,

00:21:21.240 that there really are these fault lines and divisions between peoples and cultures,

00:21:26.980 and that it doesn't matter if you let them in and sing songs about diversity and hold everyone's hand and welcome them at the airports?

00:21:36.100 At the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

00:21:39.060 Do you think this realization is hitting some of these people?

00:21:43.520 I mean, I think it is a little bit more complex.

00:21:47.980 And I know that this is a very famous liberal phrase when it comes to these topics, but I say it now anyway.

00:21:54.980 So, it is a little bit more complex.

00:21:56.840 So, first of all, I don't believe that for the violent terrorists, for the rapists, for the criminals coming to us,

00:22:05.620 it plays a big role if Germany as a state or as military power is active in their home regions, is active as an American ally or whatever.

00:22:18.300 I think for these people, that doesn't play a role.

00:22:21.080 They would do it anyway because they hate us.

00:22:24.320 That is the point.

00:22:25.680 And they hate us if we are there or if we are not there.

00:22:28.640 So, that is not the point.

00:22:30.380 The point is something else.

00:22:31.980 The point is why are these people here?

00:22:34.500 And now, this is where I think it becomes a little bit more complex.

00:22:40.300 Germany, indeed, is a country which tried for many, many decades, especially after World War II, to stay out of conflicts.

00:22:50.220 And we were in an almost luxury position, East and West Germany, in this time because we had both our hegemons. 0.79

00:22:58.440 So, we West Germans had the United States.

00:23:01.860 The East Germans, they had the Soviet Union.

00:23:04.500 And we knew that all the big trouble in the world was somehow negotiated between these two.

00:23:10.400 And we were playing somehow the role of a little bit the financers of the conflicts.

00:23:15.740 But that's it.

00:23:16.820 You know, we were not – nobody wanted to see Germans on any battlefield anymore. 0.98

00:23:21.100 We bought the most horrible things.

00:23:22.980 And especially the Germans didn't want to see German soldiers somewhere on battlefields.

00:23:26.640 But since our reunification, the things changed a bit.

00:23:31.980 And what is clear, what is very, very clear is that the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, war in Iraq was without German participation, at least with German military participation.

00:23:45.500 But the war in Iraq was, of course, also with German military participation.

00:23:49.180 But these wars wouldn't have been possible if Germany wouldn't host huge American military compounds.

00:23:59.500 So, we are the United States' biggest aircraft carrier.

00:24:03.060 We have the United States' biggest military hospital.

00:24:08.700 So, we are somehow the most important island for the United States and Europe from where they can conduct their geopolitical actions or adventures or how we want to say it.

00:24:23.440 So, these are all things I say now.

00:24:26.080 These are all things maybe the guy who was steering his truck into the people at the Christmas market in Berlin doesn't even know.

00:24:34.780 Maybe he doesn't even know how to read and to write.

00:24:37.440 I don't know.

00:24:38.080 So, this is why I say this doesn't have an influence.

00:24:41.620 But when it comes now to Syria and we have to see the refugee crisis, and we were writing this since many, many, many years,

00:24:49.320 that we said this could open the bottle, the Syria crisis.

00:24:53.540 And if Germany allows, if Germany allows that terrorists are taking over that country, that terrorists, also what we had in Libya, 0.72

00:25:03.300 if Germany is not resisting, not just because of a humanitarian reason and not just because of save the people in Libya or save the people in Syria,

00:25:13.500 no, but because of save the people in Europe and save Germany and act in German interest.

00:25:18.560 If Germany is not doing this, we will be the first ones who will be hit by the consequences.

00:25:25.220 And we wrote very, very early, one of the consequences will be a refugee wave, a migration wave, 1.00

00:25:31.540 which would be bigger, faster, and have a much bigger impact on us than all what we saw in the decades before.

00:25:39.680 We will all laugh about these migration movements coming from Turkey, coming from Balkans, coming from other countries. 0.99

00:25:47.300 If we compare it, what will happen if Syria is destabilized?

00:25:51.600 And exactly that happened.

00:25:54.100 And now, in addition, this is my last sentence.

00:25:56.880 German politics, German media, and a lot of German NGOs were actively and are actively supporting terrorism in Syria with money.

00:26:07.200 Many Syrian, sorry, Islamist organizations can act very openly in Germany and collect money for direct support for terrorists.

00:26:18.120 So all this is happening under our eyes.

00:26:21.280 And the same politicians, and we have at the tip Angela Merkel,

00:26:24.720 and just remember how Merkel reacted on the liberation of Aleppo by the Syrian army,

00:26:29.360 where she said, this is a big tragedy and the humanitarian catastrophe and so on.

00:26:37.360 So she was simply parroting what our liberal mainstream media was saying about Aleppo,

00:26:44.500 where indeed terrorists were killed and the city was liberated from terrorists by the Syrian army, by a legal army.

00:26:52.020 The Syrian army did nothing else what the Bundeswehr, what our army wouldn't do if a city in Germany would be occupied by terrorists.

00:26:59.480 They would liberate it.

00:27:00.820 So Angela Merkel is the one who was supporting, actively supporting terrorism in Syria

00:27:07.500 and who was turning, by support of this terrorism, ordinary Syrian citizens into refugees.

00:27:14.940 So it is also German taxpayers' money.

00:27:18.620 By the way, it goes really down, it is totally contradicting.

00:27:22.220 It was German taxpayers' money, for example, which was donated or which was invested in a renewal of the Aleppo water system in the old city

00:27:33.200 just two or three years before the war came upon Syria.

00:27:37.580 And then we financed those who were destroying the old city.

00:27:41.220 So German money was fighting German money.

00:27:43.340 German taxpayers' money was fighting German taxpayers' money.

00:27:45.800 So what I want to say, on the one side, we have the politicians actively supporting terrorism in other countries.

00:27:52.680 Now we speak about Syria.

00:27:53.980 And these are the same politicians, not just the same type of politicians,

00:27:57.980 but the same individuals who are responsible for opening our borders for the migrant wave coming upon us.

00:28:05.020 So we can really concentrate on some individuals who are active on both ends,

00:28:11.900 at the alpha and at the omega of this huge geopolitical crisis,

00:28:16.340 which hits on the one side civilians in Syria and which hits now.

00:28:20.580 And that is the geopolitical logic of all that, which hits now civilians in Europe.

00:28:26.340 And that is the big point of this.

00:28:29.340 So Germany was doing, or the German government was doing a lot of mistakes,

00:28:33.660 first by supporting terrorism, by enabling the refugee wave coming to us, 0.95

00:28:39.940 and then by opening the borders as well.

00:28:42.620 So these are the same people.

00:28:44.240 And that is indeed a context.

00:28:46.460 And I'm not sure if maybe a German government with a little bit more spine,

00:28:52.580 I'm now not fantasizing, I speak about spine under, in the Obama times,

00:28:59.540 which are now thankfully over.

00:29:02.340 But if they would have simply said, no, we don't allow that.

00:29:05.660 We don't want you to use your military assets in Germany for bringing chaos to North Africa and to Syria. 0.88

00:29:17.560 Look for another country.

00:29:18.700 Maybe Poland will do that or so. 0.88

00:29:20.640 You know, Polish government is always happy to host more and more occupation troops,

00:29:25.500 but we don't want that.

00:29:27.920 And so they were not doing this.

00:29:30.480 And this is indeed why I see a context.

00:29:33.440 But again, this context is seen by me and it's seen, I think, also by a lot of Germans

00:29:41.280 and also by a lot of international observers,

00:29:44.220 but for sure not by those who are killing people now in Europe.

00:29:48.620 But these people wouldn't be here.

00:29:50.840 You know, this is the simple logics.

00:29:53.140 These people wouldn't be here if we wouldn't have done the mistakes.

00:29:56.100 They would be somewhere in Pakistan, Afghanistan, in Tunisia or wherever.

00:30:01.700 They wouldn't be in Europe. 0.97

00:30:02.880 And that is the simple logic and the simple truth.

00:30:05.680 Right.

00:30:06.200 It's the Alpha and Omega.

00:30:07.460 It's well said.

00:30:08.800 Are there any politicians who would, I mean, someone from, say, the AFD,

00:30:15.300 the Alternativa for Deutschland, whether they're willing to say something like that?

00:30:20.980 Because it seems like, you know, that would basically be saying, Yankee, go home.

00:30:24.860 We're not going to, you know, we're not going to, you can go take on adventures.

00:30:30.880 We can't really stop you from doing that.

00:30:33.140 But we're not going to help you.

00:30:35.120 And we're not going to be used as a, you know, the aircraft carrier in Europe for you to launch these adventures.

00:30:42.080 So is there anyone willing to say that?

00:30:44.600 Well, yes, we have some politicians of the AFD who see this context and who mention this context.

00:30:51.520 But, and this is, again, a problem, and I think you saw it as well in the American presidential campaign,

00:30:57.320 that if you are populist, then you have to speak in the most easy context for the people.

00:31:05.800 So what we are speaking here right now about, and as easy it might sound for our listeners, is already a complex context.

00:31:12.760 It is much more easy to say build a wall or build a fence than to say it's not enough to build a fence

00:31:21.700 because more and more people will run against the fence and in a certain moment they will climb over the fence.

00:31:27.960 No, you have also to act there where the people are coming from.

00:31:31.300 I know this is, again, sounds like a super liberal statement, but I mean it, of course, in a very different way than the liberals say it.

00:31:38.520 What I mean is, and we have politicians, for example, like our member of the European Parliament, Marcus Pretzel,

00:31:46.100 who said very clearly we have immediately to lift the sanctions against Syria.

00:31:50.180 We have immediately to lift the embargoes against Syria.

00:31:53.040 And we have immediately to stop supporting any terrorism there because that is what makes also ordinary people leave.

00:31:59.900 After five years of war, if your children are not anymore able to go to their university to make their diploma or to write their thesis,

00:32:12.460 that some parents are so desperate that they say, OK, we sent them now to Europe.

00:32:17.520 There are so many people going there.

00:32:18.960 Now we try also that we get them somehow here.

00:32:22.160 It's an almost human and logical thing.

00:32:24.540 And that has to be stopped.

00:32:25.840 I think that much, when it comes to Syria, that most of the people coming here are not directly running away from violence and war.

00:32:35.320 They are running away from the five-year experience of a horrible inflation, of losing all what you had,

00:32:42.400 of losing all perspective for your family, for your children.

00:32:47.020 And that is then more easy to sell your house and to pay a human trafficker and to say, well, let's look if he finds his luck.

00:32:53.700 But that is not caused directly by the war.

00:32:56.420 That is directly caused, again, especially by the European Union, not so much by the U.S.,

00:33:02.000 because it was the trade with the European Union what was very important for Syria.

00:33:06.620 I give you just one example to understand this.

00:33:09.280 One of the first embargoes the European Union did against Syria was the oil embargo.

00:33:14.240 That means we didn't buy oil anymore from Syria, what was state income.

00:33:18.540 State income means they don't just pay the army.

00:33:21.100 They also pay the public health sector.

00:33:24.420 They pay policemen.

00:33:25.500 They pay teachers.

00:33:26.500 And Syria has a very big public sector.

00:33:29.520 So it was introduced to bring chaos to the country and to cut income from the state.

00:33:36.460 And when you see Syria didn't have so much oil exports.

00:33:40.120 And when I talk to my Syrian friends, they say, thank God we didn't have, because otherwise we would have a military intervention on the ground with boots on the ground already.

00:33:48.940 But alone, Germany and Italy were buying two thirds of the oil from Syria or of the resources from Syria.

00:33:57.400 And they stopped in 2012, if I'm not wrong, with doing that.

00:34:01.980 And that is what brings to Syria the real crisis, not so much the people.

00:34:11.800 I mean, Aleppo is a case which is very radical. 0.62

00:34:15.540 But if you go, for example, to the coastline, Latakia, Tartus, these are very intact cities.

00:34:21.240 And even Damascus is a functioning city.

00:34:23.340 But the people are without perspective.

00:34:26.800 And this lack of perspective is caused mainly by sanctions and embargoes.

00:34:32.580 Yes.

00:34:32.760 You're, of course, buying oil from Saudi Arabia, the great civilized European state of Saudi Arabia.

00:34:39.500 Because they are dedicated fighters for human rights and gay marriage.

00:34:43.060 Why shouldn't we do that?

00:34:44.320 Of course.

00:34:45.660 Of course. 0.99

00:34:46.380 And it's much better than buying it from Vladimir Putin, you know, the fascist. 0.95

00:34:52.260 Right. 0.87

00:34:52.460 Better to get it from the Saudi king.

00:34:54.400 Yes.

00:34:54.940 And anyway, of course, this is all logics here.

00:34:58.080 And this again shows that we live in a comedy and not so much in realpolitik.

00:35:05.000 Yeah.

00:35:05.820 Let's shift over to Ankara and Turkey.

00:35:10.980 I mean, it was remarkable that these two events happened on the same day, just as we were approaching solstice.

00:35:17.760 We had these two major geopolitical events.

00:35:21.220 They were also very different, whereas the Berlin event did strike me as a typical, you know, terror, spectacular event, similar to Nice and similar to Paris and other things like that.

00:35:36.640 But the event in Ankara struck me as almost like something out of a James Bond movie or a John le Carré movie or book.

00:35:50.640 It's obviously much more targeted.

00:35:53.000 It was a single assassination.

00:35:55.680 It seemed to be really this complex web of forces.

00:35:59.420 This person who was part of the state, he was a young man who was a police officer.

00:36:06.780 He was well-dressed.

00:36:08.800 I said this jokingly on Twitter, but I think it's actually important.

00:36:13.280 He looks like he was wearing Hugo Boss or something.

00:36:16.260 He was this stylish.

00:36:16.800 He was better dressed than you and I will ever be.

00:36:21.200 Well, speak for yourself, Manuel.

00:36:23.340 But I'll move on from that comment.

00:36:27.200 I'll try to.

00:36:27.980 Come on.

00:36:29.420 Come on.

00:36:30.200 You have to admit it.

00:36:31.140 Admit it one time.

00:36:32.320 And that's what I was getting at in that kind of espionage movie aspect to it.

00:36:36.900 It's this very complex web of things where he might have been a – or there's reason to believe that he was a ghoulinist, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, which is – again, this is something that I have been learning about in the last few hours.

00:36:50.340 An Islamist group that has actually been condemned by the state, but which has some backing in the military from what I understand.

00:37:01.960 So – and then obviously there's this – all of these layers of geopolitics where you're engaging in a targeted assassination of a diplomat in an art gallery.

00:37:14.940 But it also seems to be directly addressed at Russia's support of Assad and Syria, where he's saying, you know, we die in Aleppo, you die here.

00:37:26.320 It seemed to try to be breaking – obviously a murder of a diplomat.

00:37:31.420 That's a – it's a shocking insult.

00:37:34.340 It seemed to be an attempt to break apart Russia and Turkey. 0.72

00:37:38.200 So, again, it's just there's so many layers to this story.

00:37:44.440 What are your thoughts on this?

00:37:46.340 I'm not sure I quite know what to make of it yet.

00:37:49.160 Well, first of all, although it was everywhere in the social networks and on Twitter, but I don't believe at all that that was something comparable to Sarajevo 1914 or so.

00:38:04.800 You know, they were immediately bringing these examples.

00:38:06.640 So I don't think this was the overture of a World War III or whatever.

00:38:11.940 Oh, yes.

00:38:12.720 I think I tweeted that as well.

00:38:14.240 Really?

00:38:14.880 Well, yes.

00:38:15.480 I don't worry.

00:38:16.360 You can criticize me.

00:38:17.540 So you don't have just a very handsome suit, but you Twittered that also.

00:38:22.420 Okay.

00:38:23.320 Well, I mean, look, the comparisons are – I don't go for Hugo Boss.

00:38:29.060 I – a little too – yeah, a little too Berlin for me.

00:38:34.180 I like more tweed and stuff like that, but putting that aside, it did seem to be a strange – one of these small events like an assassination that has geopolitical implications.

00:38:44.980 So I think –

00:38:45.440 To make you now my friend again, we know that the assassinator of Sarajevo was in contact or maybe even controlled by the Royal British Secret Service.

00:38:57.300 That is what we know today.

00:38:58.400 So, of course, I'm convinced that what happened in Ankara was not the lonesome or the lonely decision of this bodyguard guy all of a sudden to shoot the Russian ambassador in his back.

00:39:15.140 And, of course, this has a deeper sense, but – and this should we always take into account – I mean, I have to admit that I am not a specialist on Turkey.

00:39:27.060 I'm not – I'm not – I don't understand Turkey to the death, but what I know and what I see is that in Turkey, it's very close to be a sort of total state, to say it like this.

00:39:41.760 And that in a total state are rivalries of different groups and they might agree when it comes to their nationalism or chauvinism, they might agree, but not, for example, when it comes with who they will realize it.

00:39:59.960 And, of course, the move, for many people, surprising move of Turkey towards Russia might have made upset those circles which were, let me say, had more assets in the Turkish-American alliance.

00:40:20.240 I personally think that Erdogan is playing a game and I think that also the Russians know that.

00:40:27.180 And for Erdogan, it is very easy.

00:40:28.720 It means the more often he meets with Putin and talks to him, the more he can raise his price for the West.

00:40:36.500 But on the other side, Turkey is completely dependent from Western money.

00:40:42.180 They have a very, very huge army.

00:40:44.460 I think they have one of the hugest armies in the region and they need – they definitely need the support coming from U.S. but also from Europe.

00:40:54.120 And I deeply doubt that Russia is even willing to give a substitute for that support.

00:41:01.500 So – but it's still a kind of game.

00:41:04.080 And – but that also this game is sabotaged by some circles.

00:41:10.420 It's very, very obvious.

00:41:12.860 And, I mean, we saw this within the last months where many surprising things between Turkey and Russia were happening,

00:41:21.440 despite the fact that they might still fight when it comes to Syria on different front lines, by the way,

00:41:29.600 where Turkey is still supporting terrorists and Russia is still supporting the Syrian government, the legal Syrian government.

00:41:37.960 But, of course, I mean, this could be interpreted as an attempt to disturb or to sabotage this alliance.

00:41:47.060 But on the other side, also a very clumsy attempt because I think, again, you don't have to be a dedicated coffee cup reader

00:41:56.440 in order to foresee that Erdogan would immediately condemn this action and say, oh, these were the Gulenists or whoever.

00:42:07.820 But, as I said, I think that in Turkey we have these different circles and groups which are fighting for influence,

00:42:17.420 but under the common framework of Turkish nationalism and chauvinism.

00:42:21.460 Interesting. So, I think what I'm hearing from you is you don't quite know how this is – no one knows how this is going to play out.

00:42:32.520 Look, look. I mean, just when it comes to the Gulenists. 0.93

00:42:35.200 I mean, this is – I think – you know, it's a little bit like with the Yezid, if you remember, in the Iraq war. 0.99

00:42:41.580 So, last year, all of a sudden, all the media world was speaking about the Yezidi, this small Kurdish tribe or how we should call it.

00:42:52.960 But nobody knew it before, but that was a sort of PR thing. 0.86

00:42:56.200 So, the Yezidi are under threat of the IS and Yezidi women are kidnapped and made prostitutes or sex slaves by the IS.

00:43:07.320 So, that was all of a sudden a big thing, despite of the fact that these things were happening in Syria since 2011.

00:43:15.640 There it was not a big thing.

00:43:16.940 So, when it comes – I'll just tell this as an example.

00:43:19.240 I think that almost no one knew what Gulenists are and who Gulen is and just those who were maybe a little bit more deeper in Turkish culture or Turkish political landscape.

00:43:35.000 They knew that Erdogan and Gulen were once very close allies, that Gulen was a sort of teacher for Erdogan.

00:43:41.860 Then they had some type of difficulties and Gulen is now living in the US. 0.85

00:43:47.960 So, they were not always the big enemies and I think that is also very – maybe a pattern when it comes to Turkey.

00:43:57.980 The switch from you are my best friend to you are the deadliest enemy I could ever have.

00:44:04.740 But we should never forget that it can switch again to the back.

00:44:09.520 So, now the Gulenists are, of course, the bad guys and, of course, they are in the US and the CIA is helping them. 0.98

00:44:16.820 But the CIA is also helping the Turkish government, by the way.

00:44:19.900 So, there is not – but it is just – I think we shouldn't step into the trap to believe too much the PR about these things.

00:44:27.300 I think there is the possibility that Gulen might be the big friend of Erdogan maybe already next year.

00:44:34.340 No one knows.

00:44:35.200 No one knows how quick these things go and Erdogan might deliver in some months again a speech where he calls Putin a cockroach.

00:44:44.160 This can happen.

00:44:46.200 This can happen every time.

00:44:47.680 I mean look at how Erdogan is speaking about Angela Merkel.

00:44:52.380 Sometimes so, then she's a good friend.

00:44:54.880 Then she is a terror threat for Turkey. 0.85

00:44:58.100 I mean what I say, Erdogan is a leader who acts like a gang leader in Berlin-Kreuzberg, like a Turkish gang leader. 0.83

00:45:05.300 And he has the manners of this gang leader. 0.57

00:45:07.660 He has the style of this gang leader.

00:45:09.460 We know that Erdogan has connections also from his youth to the organized crime in his own country.

00:45:16.440 And now he is leading a people of – one of the biggest peoples in the region and he is still acting like this.

00:45:24.260 And I think that all the neighbors know this very well.

00:45:27.560 Also, Moscow knows this very well.

00:45:29.180 The problem is simply that Angela Merkel doesn't seem to know that so well.

00:45:34.340 So, she always feels like a – I think like a street worker in Berlin.

00:45:38.960 And she approaches him, you know, and yes, and look, we like you and here you get a cake from us and we – you had a hard childhood.

00:45:51.520 But, you know, at the end, the street workers can do in Berlin whatever they want.

00:45:54.880 The guy leaves the office of the street worker and then he rips off the next guy on the street with his wallet.

00:46:01.140 So, I think this is how we should see Erdogan in this context.

00:46:05.580 So, when it comes to Gülen, Gülen is maybe the same type like Erdogan.

00:46:09.720 But we have in Germany a figure of speech that is,

00:46:13.740 Pack schlägt sich, Pack verträgt sich.

00:46:16.120 This means Pack is fighting each other but Pack is also laughing each other.

00:46:20.640 That can change very quickly and this – we shouldn't forget when it comes to all these different groups when it comes to Turkey.

00:46:30.420 Yes.

00:46:31.240 Yeah, and I certainly – we hope that this won't turn into a Sarajevo incident where Putin, you know, overreacts or retaliates.

00:46:39.920 I don't – I agree.

00:46:41.120 I don't think he will do that.

00:46:42.840 But we shall see. 0.98

00:46:44.320 I have been left with an image in my mind of Angela Merkel as a Berlin prostitute. 0.97

00:46:49.380 But not a very – not a very attractive image. 0.97

00:46:55.000 A very cheap one.

00:46:57.260 I think she would have to be.

00:46:59.180 Yes.

00:47:00.740 The market would decide that.

00:47:02.480 Yeah.

00:47:03.180 Yes.

00:47:04.300 Anyway.

00:47:05.440 The invisible hand of the market.

00:47:07.080 Yes.

00:47:09.420 Manuel, thank you for this.

00:47:11.780 And let's do it again.

00:47:14.040 This is very informative.

00:47:15.480 And we live in interesting times, to say the least.

00:47:17.700 Yes.

00:47:19.000 Thank you very much.

00:47:19.980 And I look forward to the next time.

00:47:21.280 Great.

00:47:21.640 Thank you.

RadixJournal - December 24, 2016

Christmas in Berlin

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