RadixJournal - Depeche Mode： A Broken Frame

00:00:00.000 Shadrachi

00:00:30.000 so what are some of your initial thoughts on this album it's kind of a transition

00:00:44.480 definitely it's uh moody and weird and it doesn't have a vision it's kind of still

00:00:56.860 the singles are poppy and the other cut other songs the deep cuts are moody weird emotive yeah yeah and

00:01:06.560 weird yeah and not terribly listenable with some important exceptions i i agree like if you put

00:01:16.980 yourself in the shoes of a casual fan you know circa 1982 i think you would have just assumed

00:01:28.260 and you and you hadn't read any reports on these things or you weren't following the magazines i i

00:01:34.580 think you might have assumed that vince clark was still the songwriter and that nothing had really

00:01:42.860 changed with you know the meaning of love in particular and um leave in silence a little

00:01:50.520 bit less so but and see you also a little bit less so but definitely the meaning of love sounds like

00:01:58.620 something from speak and spell and then a song like a photograph of you sounds like something

00:02:04.200 from speak and spell in the worst possible way

00:02:06.700 yeah that's uh that that might be the worst one on the album of you do do do yeah wow that's bad

00:02:34.200 yeah it's it's a transitional album but what's interesting is that it's the first of their

00:02:41.320 transitional album so you know i would say that they had three without i'm not gonna get off topic

00:02:47.160 here but they had three transitional albums a broken frame construction time again and ultra because

00:02:54.340 with this one okay obviously vince left and it's just the three of them martin uh dave and fledge

00:03:03.260 and with construction time again it's those three plus alan and then with ultra it's back to a broken

00:03:11.860 frame you know minus alan and that is kind of unique i think had they had alan in the studio uh to to

00:03:20.340 make this it it would have been you know just a transitional album but it would have i'm sure would

00:03:27.020 have sounded uh different uh though he's at this point you know would have exerted less control over

00:03:34.300 the uh yeah i mean it's interesting because they as the lore goes and i've i've read this in multiple

00:03:40.940 books now i've seen some of these documentaries um the the lore seems to be accurate uh alan responded to

00:03:50.780 a classified in one of these rock mags now you know if you were in the scene at the time i think you

00:03:58.280 were reading all this stuff so it wasn't as random as it might have first sounded but he was paid what

00:04:05.320 was it a hundred pounds a week or something like that i mean it i mean that that's obviously more than

00:04:12.980 uh you know that i would i don't know be a thousand dollars or a thousand pounds a week or something

00:04:18.660 but it's still it's it's not very much at all and he you know he as the story goes he really impressed

00:04:27.500 them with his musicality because they the other guys were amateurs when it came to being musicians

00:04:35.820 and so he would he could play to you know a bass line and a melody at the same time and he could

00:04:41.320 sing backup vocals he could do all this stuff he's a classically trained musician which is pretty

00:04:45.340 interesting um it does seem like as creative as martin gore can be he is someone who learned music and

00:04:54.320 church group or something and and and picked up theory that way or learned theory on his own but

00:05:00.480 you know nevertheless that that's where his musicality came from whereas um alan had something

00:05:07.300 very different and um he you know he was not involved in the writing or recording of this album

00:05:15.980 he was getting paid kind of like a stand-in they they have a lot of these guys now when they go on

00:05:21.000 tour like christian eigener and and so on they're not really members of the band i presume they are paid

00:05:27.680 well to um perform every night but they're they're not paid royalties on on album sales i would presume

00:05:35.780 and they're not really promoted as part of the band it's something else and i think he was uh like that

00:05:41.620 for some time and um kind of worked his way in so yeah with the next i guess in two albums the next album

00:05:49.440 um he'll be uh a force on construction time again in terms of writing songs and i think probably being

00:05:58.480 a major influence as a producer with the sampling and and so on that goes on here although there is a

00:06:07.260 little bit of sampling in this album it's kind of interesting there's one song that might be kind

00:06:12.200 of weirdly my favorite um but we'll get to that at some point i guess um yeah as as far as like

00:06:20.760 alan's um audition from what i understand the auditions in december of 81 and it they were impressed

00:06:30.420 like you said but it was daniel miller actually who while he was impressed with alan he for some

00:06:37.480 reason i i which i couldn't make clear just uh looking off of uh alan's website recoil uh in the

00:06:46.200 biography section for whatever reason daniel was worried and i don't know if he was worried that it

00:06:51.840 was going to look like alan was basically vince clark 2.0 and he was writing the songs i think that

00:07:00.180 might have had something to do with it or hey this guy's classically trained he might completely take

00:07:05.860 over and change the sound not sure um if what that was all about exactly but um he had to actually

00:07:14.660 lie about his age because they they wanted somebody under 21 and he was 22 at the time so he lied about

00:07:21.440 it and uh yeah they were it was pretty from what he said in interviews it was pretty easy come you know

00:07:28.780 compared to what he had been taught to do oh yeah yeah um i i think the the impression i get uh you know

00:07:37.600 i was just um reading the sections and just can't get enough by simon spence which you know again it's

00:07:43.160 a good book um it's one of these kind of typical rock books where they they tell you what's happening

00:07:50.620 with the band but i they don't really tell you enough about the meaning of the music and so on

00:07:58.400 so i guess that's um opens up space for us in a way but um yeah i mean you you you you definitely

00:08:09.400 get the impression that depeche mode didn't have to continue to exist that in some ways they wanted

00:08:15.880 to create an album in order to prove that they were still around and also the immediate perception

00:08:25.720 was that they might not be around too long and that clearly vince clark is an essential you know

00:08:34.800 component of the band and his leaving is going to destroy it so i mean vince clark almost immediately

00:08:39.980 with the same producer uh daniel miller and mute uh started yazoo um with uh allison moyer who is

00:08:51.420 someone else from the neighborhood basically and uh this great control so i i like a lot of that stuff

00:08:58.460 it's very 80s

00:08:59.740 i can't believe you want to turn the page

00:09:19.100 and um he was having i mean those only you and so on were charting at higher rates than the

00:09:38.300 meaning of love or i mean kind of understandably and deservingly um in many ways but uh you know

00:09:45.400 there was a sense that like where is depeche mode there there is some of these anecdotes

00:09:49.000 that were relayed in in this book of you know going they're performing like the ritz in new york city so

00:09:56.980 they would do a north american tour which seemed like they would fly from london to new york and do a few

00:10:01.820 shows or something and people were saying like oh wow this is depeche mode you guys used to be cool

00:10:08.160 things like i mean it was i don't know even to keep going was something um so there there is a line

00:10:16.360 in here that's very interesting in terms of vince clark's assessment so he said he told us to to smash

00:10:23.440 hits which is a kind of um i don't know i mean it's one of these fan mags almost teeny bopper mags but

00:10:32.180 he said martin's a genius he just doesn't know it yet uh which is very interesting two geniuses in

00:10:39.800 the same band would be a rare thing what vince didn't reveal what he had never revealed were the

00:10:45.120 two things that had uh bugged him most during his time at depeche mode firstly he thought that song

00:10:51.100 writing should be his domain alone and didn't appreciate any interference so he you know accomplished

00:10:57.160 that by going to yazoo and just writing for a voice and so on secondly and more importantly

00:11:02.160 he couldn't bear dave gahan as a singer uh it was as simple as that prevents dave's voice didn't

00:11:08.820 have a wide enough range so uh very interesting i mean again dave's voice is going to change quite a

00:11:15.400 bit um but the the other impression i got from reading this book is that you know depeche mode

00:11:25.260 with speak and spell i mean we can listen to it now and kind of project back on it all of

00:11:32.140 our thoughts you know about where they were by the mid 80s or where they were in the 90s or the

00:11:39.660 2000s where they are with momento mori i mean etc but like the perception at the time was basically a

00:11:46.760 teeny bopper band and anton corbin actually said they're they're wimps with sense so this is the guy

00:11:53.340 who would become their like visual collaborator and it's not you know at all an incorrect perception

00:12:02.040 um and you know this also struck me if i'm just going to kind of focus on my you know notes from

00:12:10.020 the book as well so daniel miller um he shared a similar aesthetic that would come to bear on

00:12:18.520 depeche mode covers and the band's ads even though daniel miller is jewish believe it or not a jewish

00:12:25.240 music producer uh we were both enamored with the visual look of what went on in nazi germany and 0.52

00:12:32.400 what was and is still going on in germany audi bmw and so on um this is atkins said uh who is atkins

00:12:41.200 yes uh martin atkins is their was their art director from i believe at least uh broken frame

00:12:49.720 i'm not sure what his contribution was on speak and spell but at least till uh music for the masses

00:12:54.760 and then anton uh took over okay interesting so at this point anton thought they were uh gay and um

00:13:03.540 yeah but but he would he would later have a huge influence on them but um yeah so daniel miller

00:13:11.680 um who's jewish might have actually had an influence in that creation of the aesthetic and then he said

00:13:17.940 um they always had a strong um ethic for trademarks and logo styles and color schemes that somehow said

00:13:25.860 strength and power in the same way the russian communist icon iconography did as well very similar

00:13:32.320 really the images and the way it was presented um so basically they were

00:13:40.500 you know what exactly any of them think politically or the degree to which that affects their music i

00:13:51.440 think is you know a question to be answered and my strong impression here is that they didn't have

00:13:58.380 many strong thoughts uh politically speaking and that they were kind of sheltered being raised in

00:14:05.420 the burbs of basil then uh but they wanted to kind of take on an aesthetic you know almost in a way of

00:14:15.320 like putting the cart before the horse you know it's like let's let's engage with this german

00:14:21.360 stark aesthetic and it will kind of improve our music over time like let's create the album cover

00:14:29.100 and then we'll kind of write music to fit it or we'll get there at some point and i do think that

00:14:35.200 there was a strong quality of that with depeche mode particularly at this point interesting see

00:14:44.760 i'm not it's not contradicting anything that you're saying but my sort of take on their uh aesthetic

00:14:54.540 especially at least this cover which is probably their most famous cover is that you know it kind of

00:15:01.260 fit with their humility as a band because it's got the russians uh the soviet um peasant you know

00:15:09.100 and i think the kind of look that they were going for was like drab but exotic in the same way that

00:15:16.960 the soviet union was turned out to be drab but so many in the west at one time thought it was

00:15:24.400 exotic and you know something to uh uh look toward or model maybe but um yeah i mean i've heard martin

00:15:34.660 adkins say those things about the influence of uh basically of just fascism futurism nazism in general

00:15:44.080 um in their music but i did not i would not have guessed that yet with uh this uh this cover but

00:15:52.660 that's an interesting uh interesting well i think basically and you see this a lot where you want to

00:15:59.260 go fasci but you you kind of end up in communism in between or something like that you know like

00:16:06.840 you're you're trying to you're you're inspired by images of the third reich etc but you kind of can't

00:16:16.300 go there and so you mediate it with communism or you put a communist mask on it and i i definitely

00:16:24.840 think that that is happening with this album um also interesting color scheme that kind of reddish pink

00:16:31.960 um that you see on the album the the the sickle in the vinyl there's some more photographs um that

00:16:39.680 were made by um was his name robert griffin i believe and yeah this brian griffin excuse me and

00:16:45.800 and and yeah the sick the the sickle is being waved there's this you know foreboding gray sky

00:16:52.860 and yeah amazing photographs um that might be the best thing about the album i i don't know i mean

00:16:59.840 it it's it's up there just in the sense that the the photographs are so great

00:17:03.640 definitely it's weird because i think that this album and the art is kind of like black celebration

00:17:14.640 because martin adkins admits okay the banner that we like the idea of the nazi banner over the um

00:17:22.300 over the uh building and so that was the inspiration or partly inspirational for black

00:17:29.080 celebration yeah but they are both two very moody albums that while black celebration was kind of a

00:17:39.640 flop uh relatively speaking to their other albums um immediately it became like a cult classic whereas

00:17:47.580 this one it was just kind of neither one of them um really did it it's not you know they're not

00:17:57.060 violator they're not uh songs of faith and devotion they didn't really uh puncture the uh the chart they

00:18:03.300 didn't climb the charts do you know what i mean i i think there is something similar uh between these

00:18:08.760 two albums because they're very both moody and it almost i mean with the exception of uh you know

00:18:16.400 the uh the singles really on on a broken frame but um yeah i just i think that there is uh something

00:18:25.360 there yes yeah there's no doubt about it um so what what do you think is worth discussing

00:18:35.440 in terms of the the songwriting i mean where are these songs coming from as well i mean there there

00:18:42.780 seems to be a kind of hint in these interviews and books that some of these songs were from like

00:18:50.280 martin gore's band norman and the worms or something like they're they were they were they were

00:18:56.580 kind of out there or or something and and vince said he you know martin had been writing music since

00:19:04.580 he was 14 i mean he really did have experience in this um but i mean do you see that in some of

00:19:10.980 them i mean there there's there's also the notion of um there there was kind of two breakups with

00:19:18.460 speak and spell there there was the breakup of with vince clark of course and then there is the um

00:19:26.100 breakup of martin gore and and um swiber and i believe it's her name and yeah it's it's very

00:19:35.240 it's very interesting even just you know going back to the um the book here i reminded ann of what

00:19:41.200 martin had said about the breakups with devout with a devout christian and an interview with uncut

00:19:48.080 magazine she had me on reins she was ridiculous anything was perverted if i was watching something

00:19:54.760 on tv and there was a naked person i was the pervert so i it's a kind of interesting statement

00:20:02.520 but it um and these were like young girlfriends that were riding around and they're on the bus

00:20:08.020 when they were uh you know doing a national tour of england and so on um but it it is funny i mean i

00:20:16.740 i don't obviously martin rebelled against the christian upbringing but the more i read i i i'm

00:20:26.560 reinforced with this sense that they're kind of like from a small i mean baslin was like a neo-futurist

00:20:33.900 community in many ways but on another level it was like a small town community where everything

00:20:40.220 functions around the church that's where you learn music that's where you meet friends that's where you

00:20:44.780 get your first girlfriend in this case and there's this there's this kind of christian

00:20:50.980 element behind all this that is inflecting everything and and even the kind of rebellion

00:20:59.500 against it is going to be a very christian rebellion um by his you know s&m period and so on is going to

00:21:07.660 be a kind of weirdly it's going to be inflected by christianity i think in ways that aren't appreciated

00:21:14.760 but what do you think so you're saying that martin and ann's relationship would be like the uh

00:21:21.960 new atheists versus uh like william lane craig or somebody like that uh i mean no because

00:21:28.160 no not exactly i mean i i definitely i think that he's coming from the same place as ann

00:21:36.000 and he does reject it but in his rebellion against it he he kind of retains all that stuff

00:21:43.380 because i don't know very much about uh um martin and ann's relationship well i don't think anyone

00:21:49.720 does i mean it it's just out there it was something they were teenagers at the time it's i'm just

00:21:54.960 suggesting it the only thing that i do know about it is that she is described by martin as a

00:22:01.980 fundamentalist christian and kind of overbearing and attacking him and i think that you know it

00:22:09.420 leave in silence is you know many took it as a reference to vince clark leaving in silence which

00:22:16.060 is kind of correct uh with what he did but it's actually about their own breakup

00:22:20.860 if i only knew the answer i thought we had a chance or i could stop this i would stop this

00:22:27.960 i don't want to play it anymore what can i say i'm heading for the dark oh i can't stand this emotional

00:22:47.880 what i'm saying is that there's a weird christian guilt complex at the heart of where

00:23:13.420 martin gore will in the 80s with you know let's play master and servant or so on or blasphemous

00:23:20.320 rumors that you know i think that god has a sick sense of humor and so on there's this there's a

00:23:26.480 it's a very christian type of rebellion against fundamentalism right judas and condemnation being

00:23:34.000 uh two other uh exactly um you know with the track uh leave in silence i mean it opens up and

00:23:42.120 it it kind of sets the mood for the whole album is that whoa whoa whoa i mean that just it almost

00:23:50.700 sounds like gregorian chanting you know yeah it does

00:23:53.940 and uh that just tells you like straight away like this is not

00:24:23.520 speak and spell i think that yeah that just kind of shows that it's not speak and spell and another

00:24:30.740 thing about that song is that dave's kind of voice is kind of like almost like whispery

00:24:37.240 you know it's probably due to the fact that he's so young but it's it's something that he doesn't use

00:24:45.260 that much something he would use on um uh what's that song off of exciter when you're born a lover

00:24:52.740 that kind of tone that he's using is very like softer more more gentle um which he you know rarely

00:25:01.480 uses but it's good to hear uh it was good to hear that on this album and just in general it's a good

00:25:07.180 change up

00:25:08.020 i think you can also hear that almost like that synthesized choir

00:25:36.860 in cu that is also something they would never hear on speak and spell and i think we're kind of

00:25:43.220 getting to that point of sampling noises you know that you know you're you're almost like

00:25:50.260 approaching a point where you'd write a song like sacred or so like it's this hard black edgy 0.71

00:25:58.320 sound there's almost like a choir off in the distance and so on i i think this also is a like

00:26:05.600 really powerful transition

00:26:07.560 so

00:26:12.000 i mean simon spence was saying in his book the the the song that comes after uh

00:26:42.000 like what is it nothing to fear or have no fear nothing to fear yeah nothing to fear it's like

00:26:47.640 this autobahn you know like cross work i mean i i think they're they're they're experimenting with

00:26:54.840 some things as many like duds as there are in this album like monument and some other ones um

00:27:02.900 you have this like demonstration that you can work in different styles like

00:27:07.960 you have leave in silence and see you pushing towards the style that they're going to

00:27:14.300 create for the rest of the 80s at the very least

00:27:18.040 um and then you have nothing to fear as this almost like

00:27:23.240 you

00:27:35.160 oh

00:27:35.740 yeah

00:27:39.020 yeah

00:27:40.120 yeah

00:27:41.800 yeah

00:27:45.760 yeah

00:27:48.700 definitely reminds me of crock bear and it's also kind of pushing towards that vibe of like

00:28:04.260 you know i i don't know m83 or the you know the the soundtrack to drive with ryan gosling or

00:28:11.800 something that's like you know retro futurist like 80s thumping kind of thing it's very i i find it

00:28:19.740 very interesting and i think it's also this you know this kind of you're not trapped in one

00:28:25.780 particular type of sound you're you're kind of working to who you are but you can kind of

00:28:30.160 reference things like this you can reference a little crock

00:28:33.740 but what do you think is my favorite song in the album

00:28:58.580 um i'm gonna guess sun in the rainfall

00:29:05.660 no i do like that one that's what do you think that's oh do you we can talk about that for just

00:29:13.400 a little bit i mean do you think that's a kind of leftist song um no i i actually thought that was

00:29:20.920 more of a comment on on vince's leaving a kind of all things must pass kind of song things must change

00:29:27.400 we must rearrange them um you know kind of that's just the way in it and it closes the album

00:29:34.160 you know so i i figure like that's the the bow on it okay we're we're done we're transitioning we're

00:29:41.320 moved on from you know from the old depeche that's the um oh i say things must change the message

00:29:49.380 we must rearrange them we'll have to estrange them all that i'm saying a game's not worth playing

00:29:58.340 over and over again it's a breakup song

00:30:01.100 someone will call something will fall and smash on the floor without reading the text

00:30:17.940 you know what comes next

00:30:18.940 you know what comes next

00:30:19.940 you know what comes next

00:30:20.940 you know what comes next

00:30:21.940 seen it before

00:30:23.700 and it's painful

00:30:26.940 things must change

00:30:33.940 things must change we must rearrange

00:30:38.940 things must change we must rearrange

00:30:54.940 them someone will call something will fall and smash on the floor without reading the text know what comes next

00:31:02.940 there's obviously no text messages at this time i would imagine that was like in reading the newspaper

00:31:08.940 or a letter yeah yeah yeah maybe it is a breakup song i'm projecting my own i'm projecting the album cover onto this song

00:31:16.940 right and you can always like some lyrics or you know they can remind you of a past girlfriend or something like that and you project you know oh this is this is definitely a love song but i think all of the like not all the majority of these songs are they can go both ways and that's probably the point you know even with the song like monument it kind of is touching on or like a foreshadowing of my monument it fell down it fell down it's

00:31:38.940 like it reminds me of when in question of lust he says it's a question of not letting what we've built up crumble the dust you know that kind of we're building up this uh i don't know idol of love or something or this you know relationship and

00:32:02.940 when the sight was found we laid the foundations down

00:32:12.940 it didn't take long before they came back tumbling down

00:32:21.940 don't feel that nice

00:32:27.940 but yeah the song in particular monument is is not it's kind of radical in the sounds that they use but it's quirkier than it is than it is radical

00:32:55.940 i think would you agree with that or

00:32:59.940 yes there's no doubt

00:33:02.940 i think that's a clunker to be honest

00:33:04.940 no my favorite song is one that i do think has an esoteric meaning

00:33:09.940 and i'm not i don't think i'm just projecting onto this one

00:33:13.940 and i also do think it's a nut that you can crack

00:33:16.940 but it shouldn't have done that 0.91

00:33:18.940 oh god damn it i was gonna guess that one and that is also my favorite one 0.77

00:33:23.940 um before can i guess what you think that 0.98

00:33:27.940 well let's read the whole lyrics and then

00:33:30.940 okay okay

00:33:31.940 i imagine you know where i'm going with this

00:33:33.940 uh but it it starts out it does it almost sounds like some

00:33:38.940 you know

00:33:41.940 mega church choir

00:33:43.940 not a mega church but

00:33:44.940 some baselden choir were there

00:33:47.940 plans made in the nursery

00:33:50.940 can change the course of history

00:33:54.940 remember that

00:33:56.940 plans made in the nursery

00:34:02.940 can change the course of history

00:34:06.940 remember that

00:34:08.940 yeah

00:34:16.940 yeah and there's there's some harmony going on it's it's kind of not you don't quite know who's

00:34:20.940 singing it's the whole band

00:34:22.940 um

00:34:23.940 mummy's annoyed says go and play

00:34:26.940 don't show your face stay away all day

00:34:28.940 shouldn't have done that

00:34:30.940 you you have this young boy of

00:34:32.940 let's say three or

00:34:34.940 four or five who's

00:34:36.940 not getting the intention from mom

00:34:38.940 and then a small boy

00:34:40.940 and his infantry

00:34:42.940 so he's playing with toy soldiers

00:34:44.940 marching around so naturally

00:34:46.940 shouldn't have done that

00:34:47.940 so he's

00:34:48.940 he he has a kind of imagination

00:34:50.940 in youth

00:34:52.940 and that imagination is is

00:34:54.940 martial

00:34:55.940 grows up and goes to school

00:34:57.940 such a nice boy obeys all the rules

00:34:59.940 mummy's proud of that

00:35:01.940 leave school to follow his ambition

00:35:04.940 knows what he wants to be a politician

00:35:07.940 shouldn't have done that

00:35:09.940 mm-hmm

00:35:10.940 so I mean just to give it away

00:35:12.940 I think he's singing about Hitler 0.94

00:35:14.940 who's up and goes to school

00:35:32.940 such a nice boy obeys all the rules

00:35:37.940 mummy's proud of that

00:35:40.940 leave school to follow his admission

00:35:56.940 knows what he wants

00:35:59.940 to be a politician

00:36:02.940 shouldn't have done that

00:36:05.940 I mean it's very

00:36:15.940 it's it's it's evocative

00:36:17.940 and kind of nebulous

00:36:19.940 but and you could always

00:36:21.940 there could always be as

00:36:22.940 as Mark Braun would say

00:36:23.940 a kind of exoteric alibi in the sense

00:36:25.940 of you could always say oh no

00:36:26.940 this is about this labor politician or

00:36:28.940 or whatever

00:36:29.940 of the 1970s fair enough

00:36:31.940 but when I read those

00:36:33.940 those that's immediately what comes to mind

00:36:35.940 and I don't think that's just me or something

00:36:37.940 that you just have this image of someone

00:36:39.940 I mean particularly with the change history

00:36:41.940 mm-hmm

00:36:43.940 and at the beginning it's it's kind of set up that way

00:36:46.940 and uh yeah I mean the the this understatement

00:36:51.940 of shouldn't have done that

00:36:53.940 when you're talking about Adolf Hitler

00:36:55.940 it's kind of funny

00:36:57.940 I mean it's it's it's it's ironic

00:37:01.940 and kind of kind of like

00:37:02.940 I don't even know what the right word 0.56

00:37:03.940 it's kind of ridiculous 0.86

00:37:04.940 you know it's like 0.78

00:37:05.940 oh we you know

00:37:06.940 we invaded Poland 0.97

00:37:07.940 oops

00:37:08.940 you know shouldn't

00:37:09.940 like kind of like a naivete to it or something

00:37:13.940 or like a

00:37:14.940 well a naivete and like

00:37:15.940 tremendous understatement

00:37:17.940 you know I mean it

00:37:18.940 mm-hmm

00:37:19.940 which is interesting

00:37:20.940 but you actually kind of wonder what's going on in there

00:37:23.940 like what's going on with this album this kind of you know

00:37:28.940 they're already as they remember it

00:37:30.940 they're already talking about evoking a fascist aesthetic there

00:37:34.940 it's a communist record cover

00:37:36.940 mm-hmm

00:37:37.940 whether there's any real leftism in this album

00:37:39.940 is kind of you know

00:37:41.940 mm-hmm

00:37:42.940 possible but not very potent

00:37:46.940 and then you have this kind of like weird little homage to Hitler

00:37:52.940 thrown in

00:37:54.940 mm-hmm

00:37:55.940 it's funny

00:37:56.940 I

00:37:57.940 I don't think that's misreading anything

00:38:00.940 in contra

00:38:01.940 contra Dave gone

00:38:02.940 I don't really think the imagery or or anything has been misread on your part

00:38:07.940 but one of the things that

00:38:09.940 I mean when it opens up with plans made in the nursery can change the course of history

00:38:14.940 it made me think of like childhood and uh things happening you know or that could go awry

00:38:21.940 in early youth and even you know in utero that kind of thing

00:38:25.940 but it also seems to be a kind of like anti-power song like oh he became a politician he shouldn't have done that

00:38:33.940 that's when I first heard that

00:38:36.940 it is a kind of anti-power song yeah

00:38:38.940 yeah

00:38:39.940 I don't think it's like a pain to Hitler I do think it's a nod 0.96

00:38:43.940 but yeah that and that also there there's a kind of like cheap psychoanalysis of you know if only mummy had loved him

00:38:50.940 or if his father hadn't you know beat him he he wouldn't have done the holocaust array

00:38:56.940 I mean it's just kind of I mean you know not the childhood doesn't affect

00:39:00.940 yeah I mean not the childhood doesn't affect you know your your adult outcome

00:39:05.940 but it's obviously it's a kind of cheap uh psychoanalysis

00:39:09.940 but but I don't know at the same I I do think it there there is that there is a little I you know I guess you could say

00:39:17.940 kind of like libertarian you know shouldn't have done that we shouldn't have given him toy soldiers

00:39:23.940 we should have loved him more or something like that

00:39:25.940 sure I think that's there too

00:39:27.940 and I think that's kind of part of Martin's personality which is quirky and childlike

00:39:34.940 mm-hmm yeah I think there is a a big like childish kind of perspective or aspect

00:39:41.940 it just to a lot of Martin it's kind of like a shyness you know to to a lot of his songs

00:39:49.940 and that's probably influenced by the you know the way that you look at him he's not a big guy he's not

00:39:55.940 doesn't have the attitude of Dave or anything but you can it it comes across in in the lyrics and in

00:40:01.940 uh especially songs that he sings which are the more intimate kind of kind of ones I think that uh

00:40:09.940 you know this album I think with the exception of one single this actually charted higher than speak and spell

00:40:19.940 I um really okay than any single off of uh speak and spell see you uh charted at uh at number six

00:40:29.940 six and meaning of love went to number 12 and leave in silence went to 18 now these are all in the UK

00:40:35.940 singles charts but um you know for example like new life went to number 11 just can't get enough

00:40:43.940 went to number eight and dreaming of me went to number 57 on the UK's singles chart they haven't

00:40:49.940 went gold too okay it's not platinum but in a lot of ways it was you know it was good enough it was

00:40:57.940 uh it was uh it was still a success it still had the radio friendly uh songs to to be a success

00:41:05.940 you think of broken frame you think of like a broken structure it's definitely a comment on I'm sure it's a

00:41:11.940 comment on Martin's relationship with his ex-fiance but it's also a comment on certainly um Vince leaving

00:41:17.940 and I think that um you know Vince had the vision for speak and spell and I would certainly say that

00:41:27.940 Martin has a vision but it's kind of like cloudy uh in a lot of ways I and that might have a lot to do

00:41:35.940 with his uh lack of musical background or whatever it might be where he's definitely the ideas guy we can

00:41:43.940 I think that's pretty clear but I think that you know Allen uh would later fix the broken frame

00:41:51.940 if you will I I hate to be so cheesy and say it that way but you know I I think it's Martin's vision

00:41:57.940 through Allen that is that really creates uh some of their best records uh you have got to be the

00:42:05.940 the biggest Allen Wilder advocate maybe uh on the planet I don't disagree fully but that's interesting

00:42:13.380 you would say that and I don't disagree the more I think of it because he's kind of Martin Gore's

00:42:18.900 advocate like he would turn something from Martin Gore would write and kind of transform it and massage

00:42:27.380 it into into something great enjoy the silence being maybe the best example

00:42:35.940 words like violence break the silence come crashing in into my little world painful to me

00:42:49.300 pierce right through me can't you understand oh my little girl

00:42:56.100 all I ever wanted all I ever needed is here in my arms words are very unnecessary they can only do harm

00:43:24.100 to take a song and make it uh more poppy more disco is definitely not uh not Allen's uh thing

00:43:50.500 especially if you listen to any recoil that none of that stuff is is poppy in the in the least I think

00:43:56.260 that but I guess what I'm trying to say is they need each other in the same way that Roger Waters and

00:44:00.260 David Gilmour need each other you know um but yeah I think it's I think that's the uh the

00:44:09.860 the magic I guess about them but um and just a comment on the production I mean yeah like you said before

00:44:19.060 about monument a lot of the stuff is just quirky and you know it's it's not certainly not their uh

00:44:27.620 not their best no um they're also getting to a point uh this is another thing I read and I believe

00:44:35.620 in Simon Spencer there they're getting to a point of starting to record by um or maybe this is from a

00:44:41.860 documentary uh they're after this album there's they're starting to record putting a microphone on an

00:44:47.460 amplifier from a synthesizer so they're they're almost treating it like an instrument as opposed

00:44:52.260 to plugging a synthesizer directly into a mixing station so they're they're kind of moving you know

00:45:00.980 to the degree to which that is more I don't know live or acoustic or analog or whatever I think they're

00:45:12.180 they're moving towards that but you were about to say something before I added that well just to

00:45:17.380 comment on that I mean the other thing too by putting the microphone up to the uh amplifier is

00:45:22.340 that you get the sound of the room you get a little bit more atmosphere maybe a little bit more uh uh

00:45:27.300 reverb which would definitely be bigger in their uh uh records after after a broken frame yeah what would

00:45:34.260 you give this out of uh out of 10 I mean I would give it a a seven but I gotta say that if you listen

00:45:42.900 to the Depeche Mode live at Hammersmith in 1982 these songs are so much better live they're so much better

00:45:51.060 live I mean Dave is yeah I mean Dave's really shining I have to say uh he's just obviously a great uh showman

00:46:03.380 yeah I yeah I think seven is fairly generous for this album I I I mean there's some things I like

00:46:12.820 about it but ah in our kind of ongoing always revised ranking I I still would probably put this at the bottom

00:46:24.020 dead last yeah okay all right you're not a fan of uh you're not a fan of satellite or uh

00:46:36.740 I'm a satellite if no I'm not a fan of satellite I'm I'm a fan of no fear or without what is it called

00:46:45.620 again no fear without fear um nothing to fear nothing to fear yeah I'm kind of a fan of that quirky song

00:46:51.940 I like the sun and the rainfall it's kind of nice um shouldn't have done that is not like great

00:46:59.300 musically but it's just kind of evocative you know that it it includes that sampling of that that like

00:47:04.820 clapping or marching which I I think is a evocation of marching soldiers at the end um I think photograph

00:47:12.580 of you is perhaps their worst song ever written um yeah I like I like the singles I like leave in

00:47:20.720 silence and see you and meaning of what I think those are kind of fun singles so I don't know

00:47:25.960 yeah yeah I I yeah I would agree I I think the vision is kind of split you know one foot in

00:47:33.220 Vince Clark and or trying to sound like Vince Clark and one foot uh in in Martin's sort of psyche yeah

00:47:40.720 well let's leave it at that

00:47:45.720 okay this is the meaning of love

00:47:48.720 the meaning of love

00:47:55.060 yeah

00:47:56.960 yeah

00:48:06.140 yeah

00:48:06.660 yeah

00:48:07.400 yeah

00:48:08.500 yeah

00:48:09.980 I've mentioned many thousand times

00:48:12.400 But despite all the places I've looked

00:48:15.560 It's still no clearer, it's just not enough

00:48:18.320 I'll still go nearer, the meaning of love

00:48:21.980 The meaning of love

00:48:24.760 The meaning of love

00:48:27.980 I'll hold it down on my arms, audacious

00:48:37.860 It's been an evening watching television

00:48:40.780 Still I couldn't say with precision

00:48:43.940 Though it's a feeling that it comes from above

00:48:47.040 But what's a meaning, the meaning of love

00:48:50.960 The meaning of love

00:48:53.440 The meaning of love

RadixJournal - December 06, 2023

Depeche Mode： A Broken Frame

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