In this episode, we talk about how the alt-right has grown over the past year and a half, and what it means for the future of the conservative movement. We also talk about the rise of the "alt-right" movement, and its impact on the political landscape.
00:00:00.000I know that there are people out there in networks that do read us, that do message us, but to explain the ignorance that's out there within organizations, and not just at the grunt level, but at folks who have positions of somewhat power.
00:00:15.600I was talking with somebody who, several years ago, they ran a campaign for a U.S. senator, and they ran it for a successful campaign for a Republican senator.
00:00:25.460And I was talking to him about the voting coalitions, and I said, you know, well, right now what the Democrats have is a high-low barbell coalition.
00:00:36.640And I pointed out, you know, here's what happened in 2012 where the extremely poor vote and then the extremely high-income earner, high-net-wealth donor, they partner up against the middle.
00:00:48.500And when I explained it to him, it was a few minutes, and I walked him through some basics.
00:00:52.580You know, he looked at me, and he goes, you know, that's amazing.
00:00:58.560Like, I've never looked at that angle before.
00:01:00.920And I sat there stunned that this is a man who ran a successful Senate campaign who did not know the basics of voter coalitions.
00:01:09.980He did not know at the ground level who and what he was supporting or who and what he was trying to gin up participation at the voting booth.
00:01:18.260And there was somebody else who was a county, not the county chair, but in the county organization for the GOP that I was talking to.
00:01:28.020And I said, well, you know, maybe if you read Steve Saylor or maybe if you know Glenn Reynolds' Instant Pundit, he posts some of these things.
00:01:34.960And this was after chatting for eight to ten minutes.
00:01:38.480And I swear to God, they looked at me and they said, Glenn Reynolds' Instant Pundit.
00:01:50.860And so when they're looking at, you know, when you think about the reach that we might have, I mean, the idea of the last 12 months that memes and ideas and slogans have been leaking out from whether it's near reaction, alt-right, the right stuff, whoever, that's huge impact.
00:02:06.400Oh, sorry, that's a huge effect compared to the idea that a few years ago folks on the right would have no clue what they're looking at for their voter coalitions, what are the ideas that they have to do battle with or that they should be pushing.
00:02:20.740And as we were just saying, I think a lot has changed recently with the explosion of the right stuff and so on.
00:02:29.660And I would say this, that I think all of this is very positive.
00:02:35.060Because even when people are, even when some people on the right stuff apparently don't like me very much, I think even that is fine because it's building awareness.
00:02:45.460And I also think even the whole Milo, Gavin McGinnis, and a couple other related people, maybe you could throw Lauren Southern in there, this kind of alt-right light, really light in many ways.
00:03:01.340But at the very least, interested in the alt-right, interested in playing footsie with the alt-right, interested in stealing some of our ideas here and there.
00:03:10.620I think even that is positive because they're not leading us and they are at the very least getting our memes and just the notion that there's something else out there, that there is an alternative.
00:03:25.520And a lot of people don't like this, but there really is no such thing as bad publicity.
00:03:31.380Of course, there is on some edge of if people are accusing you of being a murderer or a child molester, yes, that's probably bad publicity.
00:03:42.500Yeah, that's the old Huey, that's the Huey Long.
00:03:45.000You don't want to be caught in bed with a dead woman or a live boy.
00:03:51.060Right, yeah, no, that's, when they open up your trunk, you don't want a dead woman or a live boy in there.
00:03:59.640Yeah, but, so obviously there is bad publicity on the extreme edge, of course there is.
00:04:07.820But generally speaking, I don't think there is.
00:04:10.100I think every time Chris Hayes tweets something about the neo-Nazis and the alt-right, I think that's good because that's one more person that has that little germ of an idea in their mind.
00:04:22.240And so I think what's happened, you know, I've said this many times, I think what's happened over the past year, year and a half has really been amazing for all, you know, variations of the alt-right.
00:04:33.920Well, I think one thing that's happened with, you know, American discourse is that when you have folks protesting a second-tier fried chicken joint, you know, with Chick-fil-A a few years ago.
00:04:50.100And it was all over one executive's donations to one, you know, one political organization.
00:04:56.120I think that that helped a lot of people go, what is going on here?
00:05:00.420You know, what am I not allowed to say or to say?
00:05:02.960And seeing the left get just completely the bloodlust come out in almost every regard, whether it's trans, gays, race, immigration, the bloodlust they've had.
00:05:15.620And then when reality hits, when you see a Muslim shoot up a gay bar and the left doesn't go into their bloodlust after a Muslim, when they go into bloodlust over a random pizza joint that answers a reporter's question that they wouldn't provide pizzas to a gay wedding, you know, you can throw it right back in their face.
00:05:35.540And, I mean, I even do this on Facebook, and somebody on MPC said, if you start saying these things in the open, you're going to find out that there are a lot of people who wish they could say it, but they don't, and you're going to get support.
00:05:48.660And I stated to the folks that said, hey, I'm looking forward to all the nationwide kissings that will happen outside of mosques.
00:05:56.900It's going to be sweet when you guys do that.
00:05:58.960Aren't you guys going to get right on that?
00:06:00.260And, of course, I would say the best mark, you know, in Twitter, there's likes or retweets.
00:06:08.340On Facebook, the sign that you've struck a nerve is when nobody responds, when not a single soul on the left responds, because they know that you got them by the balls.
00:06:19.920That's how, for all those years that I was writing things that no one recognized or read, I should have just been telling myself, this means that I'm becoming wildly popular.
00:06:43.660You know, one thing that I would add to it is that I think a lot of normies, for lack of a better term, you know, mainstream conservatives or people who don't even care about politics that much.
00:06:55.560I would say that previously they used to say things like political correctness is lunacy or it's stupid.
00:07:07.380You know, protest a Chick-fil-A for something the CEO said.
00:07:11.940You know, they thought of everything as ridiculous and as unfounded, as irrational and things like that.
00:07:18.040And, yeah, sure, you can find plenty of crazy feminists like, you know, Jigglypuff or something that, yes, they fit that stereotype.
00:07:26.300But I think what really hits people over the head like a ton of bricks is the fact that it is so rational and that it is this natural evolution and that it is a kind of totalitarianism that infects every aspect of life.
00:07:45.080There's no one is no one is really pointing a gun at anyone's head and forcing them not to say something or to say something.
00:07:52.720You know, the most I've ever seen was my adventure in Hungary.
00:07:57.760And even at that point, at no point did I feel fear that I was going to be brutalized, not to mention killed.
00:08:06.680You know, we live in the end of history in a very Pacific, you know, we live in a big safe space in the West.
00:08:14.160But I think people are recognizing the rationality of this totalitarian system that we live in, that it's not ridiculous.
00:08:21.840It's actually all too rational and it has a logic and an evolutionary logic to it where at, you know, two years ago we would be pointing out Caitlyn Jenner as the former Bruce, as the, you know, this brave, amazing, moral human being.
00:08:40.660And then, you know, two years later we're criticizing him for being a fascist and, you know, being of white male privilege.
00:08:48.980That it's not, that kind of evolution is not just some, you know, schizophrenia.
00:08:55.120It actually has a logic to it and that we are living in a kind of totalitarian environment.
00:09:00.660I think also the, the, the Confederate flag controversy that happened just around a year ago after Dylan Ruth apparently murdered those people.
00:09:12.020The, the fact that just within a 24 hour period there, you know, cause there was, there was like a, a 48 hour period of a limbo.
00:09:21.620And people didn't quite know how they were going to pitch this.
00:09:24.120You know, is the right to blame is, is, is our, is it a gun rights issue or gun control issue?
00:09:30.220And then they, they fixated on the Confederate flag.
00:09:33.180And once that was chosen, it was like this hive mind just, just sprung into action and worked in unison.
00:09:41.100So within a 24 hour period, you could not buy a Confederate flag on amazon.com.
00:09:46.920Uh, it wasn't just that you couldn't buy it.
00:10:09.820The other thing I'd point out is that that was, I mean, that was the week of fags and flags when there was gay marriage.
00:10:15.760And then that shooting happened all in one week.
00:10:18.620But within that, for me, I think the lesson was that you saw one, the, the GOP roll over incredibly quick, um, with the gay marriage thing.
00:10:30.340And then two days later, take the voters that they've been earning their, their bread from and eating fat off of, and just threw them under the bus over a flag that really had nothing to do with the shooting.
00:10:51.480I mean, this gets to a, a topic that I I've talked about and, and others have, have talked about this as well, but, uh, the shuttening and how the kind of totalitarianism we're going to be facing, uh, is, is a very different form than what people were facing.
00:11:07.820Uh, in, in, in say the 20th century and, and in the, the 1930s in particular, a lot of this is exaggerated, of course, but we, we do have images.
00:11:16.240And a lot of this is based on fact as well, uh, of, you know, uh, dictators having censorship squads and, you know, removing things from, uh, newspapers or, you know, someone said something ideologically incorrect.
00:11:29.380And he was airbrushed out of a photo and things like that, that kind of stuff did happen.
00:11:33.720Um, and, uh, we, we like to point to that as just the ultimate expression of evil and that would never happen in America and so on.
00:11:41.120And it probably won't happen in America.
00:11:42.900I don't think what's going to happen in the coming decade is going to be, you know, president Clinton, um, sending me to a, uh, rock breaking gulag and, and, uh, in Nebraska or something.
00:11:54.380I'll, although who knows things do change.
00:11:56.600I think what will happen would be something like Google censoring search results and where if you Google, um, Neo reaction, or if you Google Richard Spencer, if you Google the alt right or something, you get, you know, no entries.
00:12:11.120That, that, and, and it's, it's a kind of worse totalitarianism.
00:12:15.200It's a consensual totalitarianism, but it's actually worse in terms of the, the, the thought prison, uh, that it can create.
00:12:22.040That, I mean, that we're already there with the, the 1984 that Winston, Winston Smith, you know, ministry of truth who goes back and constantly has to readjust the past to fit whatever now is.
00:12:35.880And to bring up somebody you've already mentioned is that, uh, Bruce slash Caitlyn Jenner, the moment that he, you know, came out of the trans closet or I don't even know what they use for that, but the moment that he revealed that he was trans, you saw the little squads, the volunteer squads go on Wikipedia and completely rewrite his history.
00:12:56.000They changed every pronoun, they changed all these, all these bits in his life and that were on his Wikipedia page.
00:13:03.540They went in and they changed every single thing.
00:13:05.520So it would fit what it says right now.
00:13:09.860And yeah, you can do that digitally in a way that you can't do that to a book.
00:13:14.060Like, you know, famously in the Soviet union, there were, there was airbrushing of, you know, ideological M&M's or Trotskyist or something.
00:13:39.740You're, you're always going to miss something.
00:13:41.500The fact that we know about it demonstrates that it's difficult to do, but digitally it's not difficult to do because we live in a digital world of infinite reproducibility.
00:13:51.500And so you change one little keystroke and that has changed everywhere.
00:13:56.020And of course there's the way back machine and so on, but you get my point over, you know, you can, there's a kind of consensual digital totalitarianism, which is much more powerful than anything Stalin ever dreamt of.
00:14:26.840Then you had every image out there, everything online.
00:14:29.040And then I believe the police came out and said, no, he didn't say anything like that when he shot her.
00:14:35.440But that was out there and it was a complete, you know, propaganda move for, for 48 hours to set the narrative.
00:14:41.620If, um, if they ever did say, have to go back to something like that with Joe Cox, it's out there on the record or even, even things that would be released saying, no, this never happened.
00:15:29.440Uh, well, Ryan, why I wanted to have you on, um, I'm, I'm interested in just talking about the varieties of the alt-right, um, where you're coming from, uh, how you as a neo-reactionary might differ in, in important ways from say an identitarian or, uh, or the, the alt-right shitlord on Twitter type guy.
00:15:54.140Um, and I, I just wanted to have a conversation about these, these basics.
00:15:58.140Um, so why don't, why don't we just go into that?
00:16:02.360Um, it's, it's often good to start out with the personal.
00:16:06.120So, um, you know, you, you, you use a pseudonym, which I completely understand and support, but, uh, just talk a little bit about your, uh, pseudonymous career and, uh, where you were coming from intellectually and where you've gone and, and things like that.
00:16:21.440Uh, I was, uh, I was, uh, I was probably your classic, like Alex P. Keaton, you know, young conservative kid from a purple state growing up.
00:16:30.520Um, and then as the GOP changed, I, I also changed, um, became more of a libertarian and cap type, um, and found the corruption a little disgusting on both sides.
00:16:43.680And then eventually, when was that, uh, that was probably mid two thousands during probably the peak of the W lot delay years.
00:16:55.780Um, when they were overreaching and on top of that, just being, uh, outright, outright disgusted with, with the way the left already was anti-white.
00:17:04.180Um, but like once you, you see a little bit of how the sausage gets made through friends who are on campaigns and trying to figure out like what's, what's reality down there.
00:17:13.240And then for someone I've already mentioned, um, I discovered, uh, Steve Saylor's writing and then Steve Saylor and, and mold bug kind of came together and being able to look at history from a different way, going to primary sources really got me thinking of, okay, you know, the, the fish doesn't even know it's in water.
00:17:32.200So you have to know you're in water and me understanding that, okay, I'm a product of, um, not just a democratic nation, but a nation, a world system where that's the dominant world system.
00:18:25.240So I've been drawn to the idea of, you know, you have to delegitimize their institutions, point out their mistakes, point out their lies, but then you also are going to have to build parallel institutions.
00:18:45.540Yeah, no, there's, there's a lot to, uh, to chew on there.
00:18:49.220I would just mention real quickly in the end of history there, you could, of course, read Fukuyama against the grain.
00:18:55.680Um, you know, the subtitle of his book is after all, and the last man, um, there's a, there's maybe a secret longing for the return of history and a, uh, an accurate depiction of this kind of like ideological, uh, ossification.
00:19:11.180And closing off of other possibilities and options and ways of life that, that has occurred.
00:19:19.000I think it's difficult to argue, you know, I, I think you can argue around the edges about the end of history of, of whether we're, you know, whether we're really there.
00:19:27.200There are actually all these contradictions and conflicts within the global system.
00:19:31.700And of course there are, um, you know, uh, NATO and, and Russia being a obvious example, the, the war on terror and, and all these little conflicts within the Middle East that are very complicated and no one understands.
00:20:21.680Um, but there was either one visiting professor or somebody came and gave a talk in my college who said that what really happened was that right after World War II, when America set up its system, it actually had to fight the old European powers to get rid of their, their, their, their empires.
00:20:40.300So really World War III was America beat, because the Soviet Union was decimated after World War II.
00:20:47.680So really it was America beating France and, and England and Spain and Portugal into submission and coming into, under American heel and American rule.
00:21:19.100Um, I, I think there's a lot of truth to that.
00:21:21.760Uh, and you could say it's also a battle between two or three globalisms.
00:21:27.020Um, one of which was communism, um, which, you know, the, the Soviet Union, what I, I, I, I think a lot of, when we look back at it now, I think people tend to, we can now understand that people exaggerated the Soviet Union's ability to dominate the globe.
00:21:43.680But I'm granted we see that in hindsight.
00:21:48.360There, there was seemingly two other globalisms, one of which was, um, uh, the old colonial model, the old imperial model, the British empire being first and foremost, but certainly many others.
00:22:00.480Um, and, uh, and then there was this other global model, which really was the American global model.
00:22:05.740And I think to, to go back to that metaphor of a fish in water doesn't perceive that he's in water, um, it's very easy for us to look at the, uh, the, the, the old models, the, the, you know, the, the, the British empire and say, oh, that's just totally backward.
00:22:23.860You're screwing over all the poor people who are subjects and, and so on.
00:22:27.680Um, but you, you, when you, when you see it that way, you, you don't perceive the kind of hegemony that America was bringing forward, which is a neoliberal hegemony, uh, based, I would say first and foremost on the dollar is the, uh, currency reserve in 1944.
00:22:45.680Uh, but also, you know, all these related institutions like the world bank and the IMF and all that kind of stuff.
00:22:51.140Um, and, and so it was really kind of a battle of globalisms and there were there, you could say maybe there were three of them.
00:22:57.020Um, one of them was, was damaged, but not down.
00:23:16.180I, you know, when you, when you talk about like European imperialism, there was somebody who once told me that the French never got rid of their empire.
00:23:24.100They just changed how it was administered.
00:23:26.220And so they, their lesson, and this was mostly also because de Gaulle was a tough, a tough nut.
00:23:33.720Um, but what they did is that they pulled back from having overt, um, very open control of their colonies to having their colonies basically be controlled by French banks.
00:23:46.320And the French banking system could always kind of pull the strings of what was going on in those countries.
00:23:51.400And yet those countries would retain the French language and often seek help from French trained experts or would be trained in French colleges.
00:23:59.640Uh, so they tried that type of, uh, kind of like hidden sovereignty, if you will.
00:24:04.940And that that's how they got around it with, um, with the American, uh, hegemony.
00:24:09.020Um, but, but, you know, you could argue and say that now that so many of the former French colonies are switching over their official language to English that, that that route ended up losing because it didn't have direct control.
00:24:21.640It wasn't, it was kind of a halfway measure and, and wasn't the full on neoliberal global hegemony that America achieved.
00:24:31.940Um, I, I, I think it's kind of interesting when we talk about this because we're now almost in a new limbo period where America, America still has a great deal of legitimacy and that that's different.
00:24:43.600Remember, legitimacy is very different than power.
00:24:46.600Um, you know, the legitimacy is the basis for power.
00:24:49.920And you can't just point guns at people that, that works to a certain degree, but that's going to fail at some level.
00:24:56.960You know, similar to the Soviet Union gained legitimacy when it became, it started to tap into energies like Russian nationalism.
00:25:05.140When it started to tap into structures like the Russian empire, it, it gained legitimacy that I, I don't think a, an extreme violent Bolshevik regime would ever have.
00:25:15.100So America still does have some legitimacy.
00:25:17.440A lot of people still want to come here.
00:25:19.400They want to go study at a university.
00:25:21.660Uh, they like, uh, American movies and music and, and things like that.
00:25:28.220So there is a lot of that soft power is kind of legitimacy.
00:25:31.680Um, it does seem like hard power is, is waning and that legitimacy is waning.
00:25:38.080There's just so much, you know, it's, it's, it's the difficulty of being the top dog when global America is on top.
00:25:45.060There are going to be more people aiming at it, more people seeing their liberation as liberation from the U.S.
00:25:51.020And, um, so I, I think we definitely are seeing the decay of both legitimacy and power.
00:25:57.900Um, but no one knows what's really next.
00:25:59.900You know, I don't, is, is, is, is, is ISIS next?
00:26:04.260I mean, I, I don't, I certainly hope not, uh, but I, I don't also think so.
00:26:08.840I, I think that's a kind of like a, I think Romain Bernard described it as he, it's, it's almost like extreme reaction, like photographic negative of Americanism.
00:26:17.900And it's not really, um, I, I don't see, I, I certainly hope that that is not the coming world order.
00:26:23.980Um, but I, I, I don't think it is, uh, realistically speaking, but, but what is next?
00:26:28.800Um, obviously there's a lot of nationalism that's resurgent, but you know, I, I, I, I've been a very, I, I, I certainly count myself as a, as a skeptic of a lot of the, you know, the Brexit stuff, the Euro nationalism, which is clearly, it clearly has legitimacy, clearly is on the rise.
00:26:46.420As kind of a skeptic of it, I, I think it has a ceiling, A, but B, uh, it, I, the degree to which that is a real challenge to American hegemony, I, I think is questionable.
00:26:58.200I, I, I think there has to be something else, but we don't know what that is.
00:27:01.220And I guess this gets, gets back to what, you know, gets back to this, you know, a metaphor of fish and water.
00:27:05.460Like we, we take for granted American consumption, American consumerism and, uh, democracy, whatever that means.
00:27:16.840You get to vote every couple of years and send in your local sociopath so that he can accomplish nothing, maybe some evil things, nothing much good in parliament or something.
00:27:27.800But it's hard for people to think outside of that.
00:27:30.560That's the only way we, we know how to perceive the world.
00:27:33.400That's the only way we know how to rule the world.
00:27:36.460Well, that's the point that you brought about the difference between legitimacy and power in, in, there's something about the American system with pitching it.
00:27:44.740And part of it is that we just pitch it all the time to everybody that, you know, you vote.
00:27:49.060And if you participate, that gives you true legitimacy.
00:27:51.980That's something that even when the, the Chinese, uh, when they have statements, when they talk about things, they still fall into the framework of, well, maybe democratization will happen.
00:28:04.520Or they still kind of give it credence while simultaneously they tell foreign countries, we will respect you no matter what form of government you have, just as long as you keep the raw materials coming.
00:28:15.200That's, that's, that's something where once the Chinese stop giving into that frame, once they stop falling into that frame, uh, and go with their, you know, author, authoritarian capitalism, whatever blend they have.
00:28:29.640Once they run with that, you know, you have then somebody that you can kind of look to and go, okay, this is an example.
00:28:37.620Yes, they're going to be part, one of the big poles of a multipolar world, you know, but they're, they're an example of what we could do and how you could live a decent life.
00:28:46.600Like, as you mentioned in, when you were talking about America's material wealth, and yes, we still pull in people and we have that dominance, that, that intellectual sovereignty, that consumer dominance, uh, selling the American lifestyle.
00:29:02.560How long does that last, and especially in an open borders world, how long does that last until, say, America's, I don't know, 35% Mexican-American?
00:29:12.740And there's probably going to be a ceiling on that, um, that, that's a problem, and, and that's something where I'm big on just watching around the globe for looking for, whether it's a smaller state like what's happened in Hungary or a larger state like what's been going on in, in Russia or China,
00:29:29.100paying attention to what happens out there, um, I mean, even, even one interesting nation that, that I found since their coup was, was Thailand, and when you look at what Thailand's done, and when you look at how Thailand's looking at the, the global chessboard, you know, as you said, we're in a period of flux, and we probably won't have things settled for a couple years, but there's a lot of interesting actors out there.
00:29:55.780But, you know, there, there are, there are people who are making moves that it's interesting to take a look at what they're doing, how they're doing it, see if you can apply, you know, if you can apply that, and then on top of that, if, if a country like Thailand says, nope, we're scrapping voting because too many folks were voting, forgives me that's, in Thailand, um, and look, they're, they're still a competent country, they're still a country where, you know, it's not anarchy, it's not wildness,
00:30:21.200And that you don't need the power of just casting your ballot, as you said, to send a sociopath to a state capitol or to DC, you don't need that to have a, a competent state.
00:30:34.580I, I would push back a little bit on that, just in the sense of, maybe, maybe the ultimate, the ultimate outcome is a kind of authoritarian capitalism and authoritarian consumerism.
00:30:49.180Or you could even say consumer socialism, uh, where the government, the government basically takes, it does not believe in any kind of free market or open marketplace of ideas and products.
00:31:01.140It, it, it basically believes that we need to pacify masses, probably even transnational migrating masses and keep them happy buying stuff and strapping on their VR helmets and, and so on.
00:31:15.820And, and that in a way that the Chinese model isn't an, isn't really a, a contradiction to Americanism taken to its logical conclusions.
00:31:26.980And that these are both just two kind of variations on nihilism.
00:31:32.880Uh, and there's, there, there's nihilism with Chinese characteristics and there's nihilism with American characteristics.
00:31:38.820And in, in, in, even someplace like Russia, which has certainly had, it has an imperial, uh, consciousness and a national consciousness, uh, and those things are different.
00:31:51.260Um, but even, even a country like Russia isn't really challenging this.
00:31:56.460I, I think someone like Putin, or you could say Viktor Orban, who's, who's similar.
00:32:01.020Um, I think they're kind of, they're, they're navigating the world and, and they're, they're kind of like, it's almost like they're, they're on a sinking ship, but they're still kind of able to maneuver it and turn it.
00:32:13.280But they're not, they're not really offering a world alternative, uh, to this consumer nihilism that we're all kind of trapped in.
00:32:21.940And that's, that's a good point about like them navigating a, a sinking boat.
00:32:29.920I think that's a huge indictment of just how far the West has gone when people will look to the former communist bloc as a possible salvation area.
00:32:39.820That, that's, that's a damning indictment of the, of, of the West.
00:33:26.220I mean, that's the kind of thing, this fish out of water, I think is a good title for this episode.
00:33:30.160And, and it's, it's a really good metaphor because it's, it's so difficult to see things.
00:33:35.120Like, you know, I, I remember there's a, there's a joke that is, that I, I, I often find quite amusing, which is that Stalin was, was at a, a, a, a small party conference meeting of, you know, a hundred people.
00:33:48.000And, uh, he was talking and someone sneezed and he said, who, who, who sneezed?
00:34:41.940I would, uh, I would recommend it to all your listeners.
00:34:44.560It's a phenomenal biography that doesn't paint Stalin as a cold technocrat, which so many people have been accused of writing biographies of him and portraying him that way.
00:34:54.680I mean, he's, he's portrayed as a horrible human being, which, which he was, but a three-dimensional horrible human being.
00:35:05.720Um, but, but we can look back on Stalinism of that kind of totalitarianism and that kind of fear and conformism.
00:35:12.700And we can laugh at it in a, in a morbid type way, but we, we don't see the shocking conformism of today.
00:35:21.780Like what you're saying that people claiming that you're brave if you come out as gay at this point, or, um, you know, the, uh, one of my favorites was a couple of years ago, some state university is literally offering undergraduate degrees to people with mental retardation.
00:35:38.680And, you know, it, so there was this horrible video, uh, I'll go find that, um, of this kid, of someone suffering from down syndrome or some kind of serious mental ailment.
00:35:51.980And he gets his acceptance letter from, you know, the university of Tennessee and, you know, he, he starts jumping around hooting and hollering like a kind of a monkey.
00:36:04.280And, and it's, it's, it's like, to look at that, it's just so awful.
00:36:09.520Like you're, you're, it's like you're, you're dealing with someone who, even if they're mentally retarded, they're still a human being.
00:36:16.240You're, you're treating them like an animal.
00:36:18.720And this, you're, you're basically putting their parents are going to now take out student loans so that their retarded child can go attend some mock university lecture.
00:36:30.160Just for, for who knows what reason, it's just the, it's the most shocking, like American egalitarian consumerist socialism I've ever imagined.
00:36:40.240And I remember looking at that oftentimes comments are good.
00:36:43.820Like, you know, comments in the New York times, you'll get a lot of shit loads going in there, the national review, but all of the comments on, on YouTube was, this is just the most amazing thing you've made my day.
00:36:54.460This is just so, I'm, I'm inspired, I'm going to try to, and it's, again, it's all those, all those subjects, like saying who sneezed, everyone's quiet.
00:37:04.400You know, no one's pointing out what is shockingly, patently obvious, which is that this is a evil and stupid system that we live under, where we are taking out debt in order to send retards to a fake university.
00:37:20.480Well, but I'm, I'm going to stop you for a second, because I want you to think about, I want you to think about it from a different perspective, because I agree with you that that's egalitarianism gone, gone nuts.
00:37:31.040But who is that, because they'll say, well, this really helps, um, the self-esteem for disabled individuals.
00:37:38.800Whose self-esteem is truly being prodded?
00:37:46.680I mean, the university wants money, the financial world wants to give out more loans, and they've reached, like, peak undergrad, and so they want to find new undergraduates, and they're going to people with mental disabilities.
00:37:58.740The person who's, the kid who is retarded has no self-esteem problems.
00:38:03.380That's one of the benefits of being mentally disabled, is that you don't get depressed, or you don't, you know, record podcasts about the end of history, things like that.
00:38:13.000You know, he was not depressed, he was jumping around, you could have given him a toy, or, like, gone out and played kickball, and he would have been equally happy, you know.
00:38:23.200I bring this up because I've, I've heard this more and more from people who either have a sibling, a relative, or whatever, that is severely disabled, and not just physically in a wheelchair, or has to use crutches, or whatever.
00:38:36.620Somebody who is, like, cannot talk, cannot communicate, and they talk about their relative going to school.
00:38:45.680And I'm like, oh, are they kind of in a program that's going to help them adjust to, you know, interacting with regular folks, or maybe prepare them if they have mild downs, maybe prepare them to have a job and live on their own.
00:38:57.180And it'll be, no, no, no, my cousin's, like, three foot six, has severe mental and physical retardation, and they go to school every day, and they'll get a certificate for completing.
00:39:07.560And I look at that, and I hear it, and I have people in my social circle who have gone through that.
00:39:13.780I'm like, so is the certificate for the child who has no clue, or is the certificate for the parent so that they can go, okay, this is my struggle as well.
00:39:22.920I'm being a good parent, I'm doing this.
00:39:26.580Yeah, to ask the questions, to answer it.
00:39:29.180Yeah, it's, for me, it's completely bizarre, and especially since we're just a few decades away from where doctors would go to people and say, you're going to have this gigantic burden.
00:39:41.360You know, your newest baby has these severe disabilities.
00:39:44.820You know, if you sign this paper, you can visit this child all you want, but they're going to be taken care of in a medical facility.
00:39:51.640And people used to do, people used to agree to that all the time, and it seems like now that switch where folks keep that in the house, and then it becomes this burden on everybody in the home.
00:40:13.540But I guess it also gets to this sense where there's really no limit.
00:40:19.960Like, people really do live out their ideologies.
00:40:22.480And this is where a lot of white nationalist or similar type people will talk about some things that, well, once there's an economic collapse or even a major downturn, well, then at that point, you know, people will stop living these lives of luxury and letting in immigrants and refugees and sending retards to college.
00:40:42.880And we'll start to get down to brass tacks and so on.
00:40:46.420And I actually don't agree with that opinion.
00:40:51.680I think that the mind changes and then the world will change.
00:40:55.420I think even if Germans were starving, they would still be allowing in refugees because the ideology is taken hold to such a shocking degree.
00:41:09.820And that doesn't mean that a lot of people wouldn't change.
00:41:12.480That doesn't mean that some people wouldn't rethink things if there were an economic collapse.
00:41:17.060But I don't think something like that is really an answer to anything.
00:41:23.500You know, I talked about this in this speech I gave a couple years ago called Why Do They Hate Us?
00:41:29.060And when you think about people in Rotherham who would rather children be raped by a bunch of Muslim savages, then they be called a racist.
00:42:17.800And that it's really those kind of like religious-like fundamentals that we hold are all important in determining how we act and how we view the world and so on.
00:42:29.940So at some point, like even if there's an economic collapse, these Americans are going to still be sending retards to college.
00:42:52.180Maybe a generation is going to be better or at least different than the last.
00:42:56.100Maybe you just have to go through this process.
00:42:59.180But I do think that we're going to have to go through a total psychological reorientation.
00:43:04.680I don't think this is just something about, you know, changing some policy or, you know, oh, a depression would save us or something like that.
00:43:15.140I think it's going to have to be a very profound, deep psychological change.
00:43:19.640It's going to have to be on the level of being in the world and being.
00:43:38.880And you could argue that even within states and just total fertility rates for, say, whites in different states, that that's what's been going on.
00:43:47.480And some folks are choosing to cocoon, use their adult coloring books, never have kids, never really have an adult relationship.
00:43:55.400And then they just kind of they're going to live out the next 50, 60 years, I guess, like that.
00:44:00.400And then there are other folks who are like, no, I'm going to build a family, build a community.
00:44:19.340But that guy had the husband had total cuck face.
00:44:22.380The thing that I'd say with because you were asking minutes ago about, like, say, a difference between the identitarian movement and alt-right and your reaction, all that.
00:44:49.540But I don't want to live with a bunch of mass holes.
00:44:52.140And that's what we call them when I grew up in Maine.
00:44:53.860I mean, when I go back to Massachusetts, the bizarro way of their life and their religious, the way they kind of view progressive, the progressive beliefs as in their religion.
00:46:30.700Because when the Russians gave up, you know, big C communism, they only gave it up because they had Western capitalistic democratic government to switch to.
00:46:42.220If we can design a system or carve out a space that has a system that can pull in enough folks who, whether they're tastemakers or just folks who are, say, a positive socioeconomic status, the elites.
00:46:58.560And someone, say, recently who's been getting a lot of heat just for funding a lawsuit against Gawker, someone like a Peter Thiel could go, whoa, whoa, whoa, this makes some sense.
00:47:08.580And have a safer space for them to go to and be able to withstand the heat.
00:47:12.800I mean, all the hate that he's received in the media the last month and a half, whether it's being a Trump delegate or the Gawker lawsuit, you carve out a space for one of them to defect from the current regime.
00:48:22.760It doesn't, it doesn't seem like you're really solving the full issue.
00:48:26.320I would say identitarianism probably has, at least identitarianism as I understand it, probably has more, a deeper connection with neoreaction, even if we might disagree here and there.
00:48:39.480It's just in the sense that this is going to be a holistic problem that we're going to have to solve, that identity is not just your genetics.
00:48:50.760And that social form is not about the people finally having their say.
00:48:56.500Every society is going to be hierarchical and the elites of various, of variations with obviously economic elites, but political elites, military elites, cultural elites, spiritual elites.
00:49:12.420And they create the forms that normies operate in, that all of these things need to be changed.
00:49:20.880I would say, you know, one, if we say the alt-right, I mean, I kind of think of the alt-right as a big umbrella, but if we think of the alt-right as, you know, the Trump hats and the shitlords on Twitter and so on, I think this is an overwhelmingly positive phenomenon.
00:49:58.860But Trump winning could be equally demoralizing because Trump might not really get it at some level.
00:50:07.040And Trump might not really, you know, we're not going to, we're not just going to kick out the illegals and, you know, get better trade deals.
00:50:20.280And I think it's actually important that we have, like, you know, identitarian groups, neoreactionaries, and so on, who are willing to say these kinds of things and willing to push us forward.
00:50:33.060Because I do think that we're going to be, we're going to be in a different point in, you know, when is the election, November 8th or something?
00:50:41.040We're going to be in a different point on November 9th.
00:50:45.960And whether that's a Trump loss, that's going to open, that's going to probably immediately open a lot of possibilities.
00:50:52.300Because I think there, people will start to grasp that we're not going to win this with a ballot box.
00:50:57.020But a Trump win, I think that's going to, we're going to have to have leaders pushing.
00:51:02.760Because we can't just buy into this idea that, you know, we need a better trade deal or we need to kick out the illegals.
00:51:09.580Like, the problem that our race and civilization are facing is so much deeper than this that we need to keep pushing and we need to keep going further.
00:51:20.360And I think that's where leadership comes in, to be honest.
00:51:24.960Well, part of that goes into, it's the hole in the soul of Western man and woman that is just a hole.
00:51:34.900There's nothing that we have to fill it.
00:51:36.280And that's where when I've witnessed, you know, firsthand the response people have to Trump is this is a casino magnet, a construction reality television star.
00:52:09.420And I think that if, you know, wherever you are on the alt right, there's going to be a day that's going to come where a true governor of any state is going to say, this is the weekend that we kick out the cartels.
00:52:23.240And it would be they probably have to call the National Guard for assistance and it would be, you know, a bloody weekend or whatever.
00:52:30.400They'd have to do full access to folks in the media to say, look, I'm going to be here.
00:52:35.880You know, you'll be able to see us in action.
00:52:37.420And that person in whatever state it is, is going to get rid of the cartels.
00:52:42.260They're going to give a great speech about why they did it.
00:52:45.320And they're going to encapsulate just the decay of so many small towns, heroin, what's happening, what's happening in schools, what's happening in small towns.
00:52:59.800But once they go after that and when that governor, and I assume it would probably happen, when that governor in the Midwest or out West does it, there's going to be a huge upswell.
00:53:11.320There's going to be a huge surge of, you know what, you're going to have to take a stand at some point.
00:53:16.600And like I said, fight or flight, some won't.
00:53:18.960And they can just curl up with their adult coloring books and their video games and die off.
00:53:23.780But there will be a lot of folks who will stand up and fight.
00:53:27.980And, I mean, one thing I'd say, too, that's a strength of the alt, right, in general, is it is decentralized.
00:53:36.340And that's something that I think is fantastic because it's like catching – it's like trying to, you know, catch – slap a butterfly with, you know, just a fly swatter or catching a butterfly in a net.
00:53:49.540When you're in net and things fall in, you can wrap around a lot quicker.
00:53:52.920The rapid reaction that folks have, whether it's social media, writing, and then amplifying a signal, it's amazing to see – it's amazing to see that I think Ricky Vaughn might have said it or tweeted it, that roughly, you know, a thousand anonymous accounts, maybe even fewer.
00:54:12.140But like a thousand anonymous accounts and one billionaire destroyed the GOP, you know, pundit class.
00:54:17.940And that's just kind of a strength of it doesn't matter what time of day it is.
00:54:23.600You know, if you say something, you're going to be called out by 10 to 500 accounts.
00:54:31.840And that's a huge thing to let them know because the regime and the regime press, they live in that bubble where they think everybody loves me, this is perfect, oh, just they're uneducated if they don't accept me or they don't believe what I believe.
00:54:43.740Once you pierce their bubble, you show that they're vulnerable.
00:54:52.340That is why I think the neocons and other conservatives are right to be terrified about Trump.
00:54:59.120I think one could make the argument that, oh, this is so overblown, you guys should just go along with it.
00:55:04.100Obviously, people in the Republican establishment are going along with Trump and they're just kind of saying, okay, well, we're going to probably lose this time.
00:55:43.540If people like Rick Wilson and others, if we do go back and they become re-employed or something, I would be pretty depressed, to be honest.
00:55:55.560But I generally think that that doesn't happen.
00:56:19.440And something – there are some of those photos in California where it is just a family of three, four, five.
00:56:25.980They're going to a rally, and they're just walking in maybe with a Trump shirt, maybe with a Trump sign, and they're being shouted at by a smorgasbord of ministry meets and minorities.
00:56:41.520And it just strikes me that something has fundamentally changed in America.
00:56:46.560Something has fundamentally transformed.
00:56:49.060And California, there's – it's fantastic that it's showing these folks.
00:56:53.300No, that America from 1950s that the GOP pitches to you, that's gone.
00:56:59.380Do you think that white conservative normies don't grasp that?
00:57:07.140Because, you know, one thing that I would say about white conservative normies, they're very naive people, very good-natured, conformist in their way,
00:57:18.640people who want everything to just work out, people who deal – they deal with you in good faith, and they expect and assume that everyone else is dealing with them in good faith.
00:57:32.860Do you think that they grasp, you know, the kind of edge we're on?
00:59:07.080And they were teasing some of my younger male cousins about – who were age 21 to 25 about, you know, when are you going to find a good girl?
00:59:16.560When are you going to do this and that?
00:59:18.260And so one of my cousins turned it around to them and he goes, define a good girl.
00:59:22.780And so my parents, you know, threw out some traits.
00:59:28.000And my cousin goes, I've never had a girl even offer to cook me anything.
00:59:32.280And my mom was like, wait, what are you talking about?
00:59:35.680And he goes, I don't even think most of the girls I dated could cook more than like mac and cheese and ramen.
00:59:41.580And it was kind of shocking for a boomer who's completely out of touch with the dating game.
00:59:47.360And then he showed them Tinder and he said – because I had mentioned my parents were like, oh, yeah, there's dating apps that are really just sex apps like in Logan's Run.
00:59:57.840And, you know, my parents were like, what?
00:59:59.360And my cousin who actually had a Tinder account was showing, you know, all I have to do is message and I can get sex.
01:00:08.400And his big pitch to my parents was I can get sex anytime I want.
01:00:12.100To get a girl to stay longer than three weeks or four weeks, that's the challenge.
01:00:17.760And it's not, you know, like that's not my parents having their head in the sand.
01:00:22.280It's just my parents being completely detached from that.
01:00:25.040And that's part of that atomization between regions, genders, generations.
01:00:30.880Very few folks truly know what someone else is going through.
01:00:34.960And then the only people they're hearing it from are folks in the media.
01:01:32.780It's a little bit silly when, I mean, even when I was bashing the conformist to people on a YouTube comment, well, you know, humans are going to conform.
01:01:40.820I mean, we can't, we would never have evolved to where we are if we were this race of atomized individualists who were, you know, all a bunch of hipsters contradicting everyone at every possible outcome.
01:01:54.780But I think also we probably did evolve a certain optimism that it's going to be okay because that is a motivation to keep getting on, keep on getting on or whatever the phrase is, keep on chugging along, keep on doing what you're doing.
01:02:50.060That was probably fundamentally a military elite.
01:02:53.300You know, our military elite now are a bunch of, you know, doofus football coaches who go out and bomb some Iraqi village and then rebuild it.
01:03:02.440We don't have a military elite really talking about the other.
01:03:22.460And one thing that why the left got in on the global intervention, it wasn't just the old Wilsonian, let's export democracy.
01:03:31.400There was the idea that the business interests, Bob Strauss, I think it was Robert Strauss, was a lawyer and a huge kingmaker political connector on the left.
01:03:43.320And he helped orchestrate the 76 Democrat convention, kind of lining up everybody for imagery to be behind Carter to unite and win.
01:03:53.280But his law firm made tons of money off of consulting and doing things with international clients.
01:04:01.300So the idea that you make more trade agreements and more trade agreements will eventually become, if something happens with the internal politics of that nation, you know, you then have an actual interest to go back to the seat of the seat of the empire's power in D.C.
01:04:24.320We're not truly ruling and reigning our vassal states.
01:04:28.980You know, we're doing it through intermediaries and then only when stuff hits the fan do we jump in.
01:04:34.400And it's not that different from when, you know, when the Brits had, when the Brits switched over from, you know, colonialism and stuff to imperialism.
01:04:44.980And if you look at even what Cromer went through, Lord Cromer went through in Egypt, you know, the immediate intervention in Egypt was this weird unification of the jingoists and the super patriots.
01:04:59.260And, you know, it might sound like an echo from today, these left wing folks who want to spread the great ideals and the joys of British civilization to the Egyptians.
01:05:09.340And then quickly, within a couple of years, those folks on the left all turned on that intervention.
01:05:16.360And then Cromer was constantly spinning plates, did a fantastic job with it, but he's constantly spinning plates.
01:05:21.380So it's not that different from today.
01:05:23.080It's just that, like, the scale of what we can do for damage and destruction is so much greater.
01:06:09.260But that's more because I view looking at Bond films not from what the story is, but from kind of the idea of a little bit of the cheese, a little bit of the themes of Bond.
01:06:22.600Whereas On Her Majesty's Secret Service, you are right.
01:06:43.440You know, it's a little bit more shadowy, although you're in Turkey, it's less of the splash and exoticism and fun.
01:06:54.320And Doctor No, I think, is actually a brilliant film.
01:06:56.680But that, you know, that was very low budget and so on.
01:07:00.500It was Goldfinger that cemented it all.
01:07:02.220But I don't think Goldfinger is the greatest movie.
01:07:05.320I think its story kind of, I mean, it has all the, it has some brilliant elements, like, you know, the man himself and some of those scenes.
01:07:13.460But the story is, I don't know, it doesn't really, it doesn't really excite me.
01:07:18.960Whereas On Her Majesty's Secret Service, it definitely touches me, the story.
01:07:23.800And then also, I don't know, just, it does, there's this kind of mythic element of, of there's a dragon, there's a dragon up in a castle.
01:07:34.980And you have to go slay the dragon up in the Alps and save the princess.
01:07:40.500There's something kind of, you know, deeply mythic about it that I like.
01:07:43.080On Her Majesty's Secret Service, first off, if Connery or Moore is in that film instead of Lazenby, then that is the Bond film from the 60s, 70s that is always on TNT or whatever.
01:07:57.920You know, that's always a Sunday matinee after the NFL is done.
01:08:01.820That, if it was just a different lead, because it's probably the most realistic, probably the most believable guy and girl get together and fall.
01:08:13.460Like, the one time where you're like, Bond is not just nailing some exotic foreign tail in, like, five-word pickup, you know, or a five-line pickup.
01:08:22.280Like, there's an actual development of a relationship.