RadixJournal - December 07, 2022


＂Good Times＂


Episode Stats

Length

29 minutes

Words per Minute

132.42606

Word Count

3,889

Sentence Count

268

Misogynist Sentences

19

Hate Speech Sentences

29


Summary

In this episode, we discuss the phenomenon of "incelibate men" and how it has been taken to its extreme by conservative ideologues such as Nick Blevins and Andrew Groyper. We discuss how incels come to be and how to deal with them.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 If you take out some things like having sex with women is gay or whatever, Nick speaks
00:00:08.320 to the American public, not the American public, American conservatives.
00:00:12.120 So a percentage of the American public.
00:00:15.880 And they agree with his stuff.
00:00:20.740 You know, even stuff like we just need a Catholic dictatorship.
00:00:24.140 Now, most of them aren't going to agree with that.
00:00:26.680 And most of them are Protestant or evangelical or something like that.
00:00:30.820 But they kind of agree with the sentiment, actually.
00:00:34.840 So this isn't a majority of the population, but it's a very strong plurality of conservatives
00:00:42.960 agree with them.
00:00:43.620 Now, I also agree that there's something, you know, like early Christian about claiming
00:00:52.080 sex with women is gay, that this resembles Paul or even taken to its limit, origin or
00:00:59.020 something.
00:01:00.380 But, you know, and I think you could also say that there's some kind of, I don't know, like
00:01:08.260 status of a particular kind of male in a particular situation that almost gave birth to that type
00:01:14.700 of thinking.
00:01:16.620 So, you know, I think it's, yeah, I don't know.
00:01:21.360 Maybe I'm underestimating this appeal.
00:01:23.920 I don't think so.
00:01:24.720 I mean, any normal person wants to have sex with women.
00:01:28.060 So, I mean, I just, you know, they're going to not understand that kind of thing.
00:01:34.400 I think there's a, a, there is a peculiar kind of abstinious quality to the end South.
00:01:42.540 And it is funny how they are, they become almost like priest and they've adopted trad
00:01:50.200 Catholicism.
00:01:51.060 It's, it's very funny.
00:01:52.260 The whole thing.
00:01:53.060 It is kind of like history repeating, but as, as farce.
00:01:57.660 I mean, this gets to a bigger question.
00:02:00.100 I mean, what are the situations where you have excessive men who aren't valued and they
00:02:10.880 go into a priestly like posture?
00:02:15.700 Because that's the posture of a lot of the incel community and the Groypers even.
00:02:20.760 You know, during the Groyper Wars, they were openly displaying rosary beads and all sorts
00:02:27.580 of things.
00:02:27.900 They've taken a kind of priest-like posture and they've, what they are obsessed with more
00:02:33.600 than politics is hurting the flock.
00:02:37.340 You know, what are they obsessed with most?
00:02:39.260 You know, e-girls or Instagram thoughts or, you know, all this kind of stuff.
00:02:44.280 So, I, I think there are particular situations that, where you have this, you know, like male
00:02:52.100 population that's getting screwed, figuratively speaking, and they, this is one direction that
00:03:00.860 they take.
00:03:02.300 And it kind of is like the other side of the coin of being a porn fanatic, where you watch
00:03:08.720 porn and play video games all day.
00:03:10.440 And you just live in a kind of virtual reality of, of sexuality.
00:03:16.440 And the other side of the coin is that you kind of like embrace the resentment and kind
00:03:22.380 of turn it into something holy.
00:03:24.440 That's at least what Nietzsche would have said, looking upon the incel population.
00:03:29.700 And of course, there's yet another option, which is to go nuts and go attack Chad's, Becky's,
00:03:38.200 and Stacy's.
00:03:40.100 Like, what's his name?
00:03:43.080 I always, what's his name?
00:03:44.340 And Andrew Rogers, or what's his name again?
00:03:47.380 Elliot Rogers, you mean?
00:03:48.660 Elliot Rogers.
00:03:49.380 Yes.
00:03:50.740 You know, it's fascinating that he took a knife, which is a very sexualized way of killing
00:03:56.220 people.
00:03:57.600 You know, you're stabbing them.
00:03:59.200 And he went to a sorority or a fraternity and started attacking, violently attacking the
00:04:06.880 people who were reproductively successful, at least in his milieu.
00:04:12.460 So it's, it's, you know, oh my God, the sorority chicks and some Chad football player that's
00:04:18.800 banging three of them.
00:04:20.060 Like he was violently attacking the people who were successful.
00:04:23.520 So he kind of fully embraced the nihilistic implications of the ideology.
00:04:32.160 There's something kind of interesting though, with the use of these terms, like incel, where
00:04:36.600 it's like, and you've alluded to this point before with Nick, it's like, this isn't, he's
00:04:42.440 not necessarily involuntarily celibate.
00:04:44.740 Because as you've said before, anyone who has that level of notoriety can get some.
00:04:50.420 So at that point, it's just, it's just being voluntarily celibate if, if you are, and it's
00:04:54.540 kind of this conflation of like, it's sort of like the word gentleman.
00:04:58.160 It's like that word's really only appropriate if someone has other options than being genteel.
00:05:05.420 So like, if, if you're just this skinny little twerp, who's a nice guy, you're not a gentleman.
00:05:13.340 It's like, you think you're moral because you were born without claws and teeth.
00:05:17.900 You're not moral.
00:05:19.540 You're just a little bird.
00:05:21.100 Like in a way, only the lion can be moral because he could actually refrain from killing the
00:05:28.700 lamb.
00:05:30.000 Precisely.
00:05:30.520 Yeah.
00:05:31.440 I mean, to go back to the incel phenomenon, I do think the incel phenomenon is hugely important.
00:05:38.700 You guys have probably encountered Roger Devlin's sexual utopia article, which it was actually
00:05:48.140 published in the Occidental Quarterly almost 20 years ago now or so.
00:05:54.460 I don't know when that was published, maybe 2002.
00:05:56.340 I think he generally got it right.
00:06:01.060 It's that women are naturally hypergamous.
00:06:06.480 So it's wrong to think of women as prudes.
00:06:10.260 They don't necessarily have less of a libido than a man does.
00:06:13.660 They just have a different libido.
00:06:15.360 And so women are naturally, they want to marry up.
00:06:17.680 They also recognize this difference where there's a kind of aggressive quality to male
00:06:25.880 sexuality and there is a sought after, or you could say passive, although maybe that's
00:06:31.900 not the right way of thinking about it, quality to females.
00:06:34.140 And that goes as far as the fact that, sorry to be brutally scientific here, but the male
00:06:43.220 sticks his penis into the woman's vagina.
00:06:46.140 He enters her.
00:06:47.920 He is the aggressor in this basic sexual act.
00:06:52.600 And so the woman understands herself as being sought after, and the man understands himself
00:06:59.020 as going after someone.
00:07:00.900 And you can kind of see this in different ways.
00:07:05.580 Female beauty is a way to sell a product because it's an object of desire.
00:07:12.820 Now, yes, a male body can be an object of desire to some extent, but we know that it's
00:07:20.660 to a far, far less extent.
00:07:23.280 If you really want to sell a product, you put a beautiful woman there.
00:07:26.800 And even in women's magazines, they're looking at women.
00:07:30.820 So the woman is the object of desire.
00:07:33.320 The male is kind of the gaze.
00:07:35.040 The male doesn't exist.
00:07:36.400 And it is kind of interesting in pornography where very often the, well, always, I would
00:07:45.200 say the woman is in the center focus of the camera.
00:07:49.360 And she's, she's usually her full body is shown.
00:07:52.240 Very often, you'll only see the male torso in the frame.
00:07:59.280 And so the male in a way is kind of like headless or doesn't exist.
00:08:03.900 So the male is like pure desire and the female is what is desired.
00:08:11.980 And this also goes to the fact that there's an asymmetry in sex cells.
00:08:16.580 So women have a kind of set number of sex cells for their entire life.
00:08:21.140 It's, it's many fewer.
00:08:22.860 And they, uh, they release this all important sex cell once a month for their, you know,
00:08:30.980 window of birthing.
00:08:32.800 Men more or less had infinite amount of sex cells.
00:08:36.820 And so there's just this fundamental asymmetry of men want to spread their seed.
00:08:43.800 Women want, understand themselves as the object of value and they, you know, it's like the
00:08:50.960 best seed will find them.
00:08:52.840 So there is this fundamental asymmetry.
00:08:54.780 There's also something that's well noted and documented, which is that a successful men
00:09:00.080 are much more willing to have a so-called trophy wife or to kind of marry down.
00:09:06.500 Like it's not surprising when a successful man marries his secretary or marry some bimbo or
00:09:15.020 it just doesn't matter with a successful woman, a woman who's a high powered lawyer or something
00:09:20.840 like that.
00:09:21.560 They don't really, it's rather unusual for them to marry down.
00:09:26.160 Um, and so, you know, monogamy is this way of kind of squaring the circle and it is squaring
00:09:35.620 the circle.
00:09:36.100 Like it's taking an asymmetric situation and making it symmetrical.
00:09:41.220 And monogamy is absolutely a social construct.
00:09:45.280 It's not natural.
00:09:48.240 The natural way of doing things is for 10% or maybe even 5% of the males to actually,
00:09:56.160 actually reproduce.
00:09:59.620 And also polygamy, I'll put that in quotation marks, is also very natural.
00:10:06.640 Let's do the 80-20 rule just to keep things simple.
00:10:09.880 It's natural for 20% of the males to mate with 80% of the females.
00:10:14.880 So obviously some are double dipping.
00:10:18.800 And we had monogamy as this social construct, which squared the circle.
00:10:26.980 And that is now breaking down due to many different factors due to sexual liberation, due to women
00:10:35.220 in the workplace, due to the tenderization of dating, due to the asexuality, a kind of
00:10:43.340 countervailing trend to rampant degeneracy, which is that, you know, millennials and Zoomers
00:10:50.040 are lonely and don't have sex.
00:10:53.000 And so it's like we have, monogamy is being broken down.
00:10:59.200 Divorce rates are actually falling, interestingly, but that's just because marriage rates are falling.
00:11:03.180 And in fact, just sexual activity is declining.
00:11:07.100 And one of the outcomes of this is going to be the incel.
00:11:14.520 And so it is this, it's a phenomenon that exists and it's existed in previous ages.
00:11:21.400 You could even say it's a kind of natural way of being.
00:11:23.860 And so the question is, like, how are they going to react to this situation that wasn't
00:11:30.700 present for them in previous times?
00:11:33.420 I think Fuentes-ism is a kind of expression of that and a way out.
00:11:40.340 So it's embracing nationalism and so on.
00:11:42.840 But I think it's very clear with Ye that all of this nationalism just kind of withers away
00:11:53.440 in the face of what they're really about, which is the assertion of Christianity.
00:12:02.880 And that's ultimately what's most important.
00:12:06.080 In fact, you could even say that a lot of these people were attracted to nationalism
00:12:09.980 as a mission field for the promotion of Christianity.
00:12:17.840 And so this is, you know, kind of where we're headed.
00:12:21.120 So I think on some level, like, you know, whether he actually is an incel or not is kind of immaterial.
00:12:28.260 He's reflecting and engaging with a very real thing.
00:12:34.640 And so you can kind of go in two directions from this state that you've been placed in.
00:12:41.240 You could play video games and watch porn all day and have a virtual reality sexuality and a virtual reality male aggression
00:12:49.760 in all these video games where you're blowing away zombies or refighting World War II or whatever the hell you're doing.
00:12:56.340 Or entering the Tolkien-esque fantasy realm of the Middle Ages, all these things.
00:13:04.280 They're very interesting, like, what is popular in gaming.
00:13:07.780 But it's all a substitute for real life.
00:13:11.660 And so, you know, you could go in that direction or you could probably go in a kind of shit-lib direction
00:13:20.680 and just be some loser online who talks about Marvel movies and is saying, yes, queen, online.
00:13:30.540 You could do that.
00:13:31.900 Or you could kind of take the Christian route.
00:13:35.780 Or maybe I should say Abrahamic route because I'm sure there are a lot of Muslims that respond to this.
00:13:41.760 And you could kind of embrace the resentment and try to transform that resentment through a kind of alchemy into something holy and higher.
00:13:57.120 And so, you know, you recognize the state you're in and you try to say, you know,
00:14:03.640 what this is really about is a holy mission that we're on to redeem the world.
00:14:09.740 And I think that's one out.
00:14:11.400 The other out, as I mentioned, is the Elliot Rodgers out, where you just, you embrace the resentment,
00:14:16.880 but you also turn it into a kind of nihilism.
00:14:19.280 And you go out and actively attack people who are sexually successful.
00:14:25.260 That is certainly one route.
00:14:27.100 I mean, this is the other theme that is worth talking about, where, like, isn't it interesting how all of these movements kind of end up
00:14:38.760 as just Christianity at the end of them?
00:14:42.860 So, in 2015, Donald Trump really defined his campaign as immigration.
00:14:55.980 It's about the wall.
00:14:57.720 It's about protecting Americans from these criminals and rapists.
00:15:02.300 It's about not getting screwed over economically by Mexico or China or so on.
00:15:13.100 And that's how it started.
00:15:16.080 It was actually remarkably secular.
00:15:18.140 Trump never mentioned God in his, you know, announcement speech in 2015.
00:15:25.620 And he also, of all the things that he was, you know, politically incorrect about, homosexuality was actually not one.
00:15:36.300 He did not talk about gay marriage, which was controversial a mere five years before he ran.
00:15:48.780 Hotly controversial.
00:15:50.060 And it's almost become controversial again, interestingly, which kind of bolsters my point on this.
00:15:57.940 You now have Ben Shapiro and other people, you know, Matt Walsh.
00:16:02.520 These are guys with millions of viewers and so on.
00:16:05.460 They are now really going back to the gay marriage situation.
00:16:10.300 And they were just outright in opposition to the recent codification of gay marriage in Congress.
00:16:18.180 Interesting.
00:16:21.080 But anyway, it was remarkably, Trump's campaign was remarkably secular.
00:16:26.440 And by the summer of 2016, things started to shift.
00:16:30.740 And so he, you know, he went to Liberty University and gave a, maybe it was a commencement address, maybe it was just a big speech.
00:16:39.260 And he said, you know, you might not like me, folks, but you've got to vote for me because of the judges.
00:16:44.940 You've got to vote for me, guys.
00:16:46.740 And that worked.
00:16:49.900 He also infamously was interviewed by Chris Matthews and asked about abortion.
00:16:55.740 He said, well, we're going to have to punish the woman.
00:16:58.600 And we want to outlaw abortion.
00:17:00.960 And, you know, we'll punish the doctor.
00:17:03.080 We'll punish the woman.
00:17:04.020 He kind of had to think about it and say, well, yeah, we're going to have to punish the woman, too.
00:17:07.480 He felt that he had to go there to gain the Republicans' trust.
00:17:13.540 Mike Pence was put forth as another way of achieving that.
00:17:21.240 Mike Pence was only notable, really, due to his opposition to the bake the cake stuff and the Hobby Lobby stuff.
00:17:31.900 I mean, that's where he came from.
00:17:34.180 You know, Trump went there.
00:17:35.980 He pandered or tried to appeal to these people.
00:17:38.700 But then they embraced him more than anyone else.
00:17:42.620 So, you know, if you look at various figures like me, for instance, you know, I was off the Trump train maybe the earliest, but I don't know.
00:17:54.860 And then, you know, Ann Coulter.
00:17:56.780 I don't really like Ann Coulter, to be honest.
00:17:59.260 But and I think all she wants is DeSantis.
00:18:02.240 She just wants to go backwards and not forwards.
00:18:04.560 But regardless, she's way off the Trump train.
00:18:08.680 And the people who were off the Trump train at the beginning jumped on the Trump train.
00:18:15.220 And so Ben Shapiro became the, in many ways, face of the Trump movement, at least in terms of the ideological online content.
00:18:24.560 And the people who remained absolutely devoted to him were the Christians.
00:18:33.140 And by 2020, you know, you have Paula White, his spiritual advisor, whatever the hell she was, you know, speaking in tongues on the eve of his election.
00:18:46.960 In your name, Father, in your name.
00:18:49.920 You will destroy all enemies, destroy them.
00:18:54.800 I mean, it was wild as hell.
00:18:58.820 But on some level, like, all of that, I mean, look, the wall never really got built.
00:19:08.600 It got built to some degree.
00:19:11.240 Immigration was never truly reformed.
00:19:14.520 It's definitely true that there were some kind of draconian measures implemented by Sessions and company.
00:19:21.580 And COVID lessened immigration pretty substantially.
00:19:25.740 All of that's true.
00:19:27.020 But there was never really any, like, big solution to these issues offered by Trump.
00:19:33.220 And it's ultimately kind of gone by the wayside.
00:19:36.540 You don't hear people talk about the wall anymore, whatever.
00:19:40.040 And it's just become a religion.
00:19:46.500 Like, the emergence of QAnon was probably, and I really hate it when I talk to some of these conservatives and they want to just deflect and deny and diminish the importance of this stuff.
00:20:00.080 I mean, QAnon was one of the most important social phenomena of my lifetime.
00:20:07.480 An online movement that motivated people to be fanatics, that is remarkable.
00:20:16.240 So it just emerged as this cult.
00:20:19.300 And you can kind of see this coming up later.
00:20:22.040 You know, as I've said, I think Trump needed to kind of, like, be radical again, be crazy again.
00:20:28.500 He's got to reignite the magic of 2015.
00:20:35.400 And he can't.
00:20:36.720 Maybe he's just played out.
00:20:38.320 Maybe he's just taken too many shots at this point that he's on the mat, dazed and confused.
00:20:45.680 He can't get up.
00:20:46.780 That's possibly, probably true.
00:20:50.680 No one's even talking about Trump at this point.
00:20:52.960 And so you get this yay-ism, which waves the flag and evokes Americana, but is ultimately just Christianity.
00:21:05.220 And, you know, I, again, I listened to a lot of the Gavin McGinnis thing.
00:21:11.700 I should probably listen to the whole thing.
00:21:13.220 It just wasn't nearly as compelling as this wild Alex Jones interview that I listened to with rapt attention because it was so just absurd.
00:21:22.700 But anyway, if there is a policy there with yay-ism, it seems to be, you know, we blame the Jews for the fact that porn is on the internet and we have indecent advertising and all that kind of stuff.
00:21:42.260 We blame the Jews, but we can't really, you know, kick the Jews out of these positions.
00:21:48.740 So what we're going to do is have decency laws.
00:21:51.200 How exactly that would play out, I don't know, but that's at least the kind of germ of an actual policy in yay-ism.
00:21:59.420 But what's most prominent about yay-ism is the fact that it is just pure Christianity.
00:22:09.280 You know, like, to be fair, there is some policy there, more or less, but like, that's not the real thing.
00:22:17.160 It's about calling out the Pharisees, reading the Bible, putting your faith in Jesus, loving everyone, especially Hitler.
00:22:28.700 But isn't it interesting how, like, populism, quote-unquote, gets reduced to Christianity?
00:22:37.700 And I think that's the general trajectory of this stuff.
00:22:41.340 This just keeps happening over and over.
00:22:42.940 You could even say the replacement of me with Nick Fuentes as the kind of, like, icon slash object of hatred of the online right.
00:22:56.200 Like, that also is very interesting.
00:22:59.520 Because everyone knows that I'm secular at the very least.
00:23:06.420 And also everyone knows that Nick is not.
00:23:10.540 Like, this is the long-term trajectory of things.
00:23:15.120 To think about, like, how do we explain this?
00:23:18.340 This all comes in the context of a general decline in belief in God and religiosity in the United States.
00:23:29.960 And so I guess that I would suggest that it might be a kind of, like, late reaction against this overwhelming trend.
00:23:40.160 I mean, keep this in mind.
00:23:41.980 The number of unchurched agnostics or atheists is at the same level as evangelical Christians in the Bush era.
00:23:55.080 In 2022, the number of, like, vaguely agnostic, who knows what they believe, is at the same level as the Bible-thumping flag wavers of 2004.
00:24:09.480 Objectively speaking, all of this stuff is declining.
00:24:13.360 Yet, as it declines, it almost gets kind of reduced into something more intense.
00:24:20.200 Yeah, as someone just mentioned, like, mysticism is on the rise.
00:24:25.660 Like, no doubt.
00:24:26.640 No doubt.
00:24:27.300 I mean, there's something to be said for the notion.
00:24:31.000 Chesterton, and to some degree, it's a kind of notion of Dostoevsky.
00:24:34.680 It's like, when you don't have religion, when you don't have orthodox religion, you're just going to have crazy new religions.
00:24:41.800 I do agree with that.
00:24:42.900 I think that is also on the rise.
00:24:44.920 Christianity in a recognizable form is simply declining.
00:24:51.180 And belief in God is declining.
00:24:54.680 Even people who believe in God believe in some, like, hazy entity in the sky who's nice.
00:25:00.440 Whether they really believe in a Christian God is questionable, or a Jewish God.
00:25:05.300 But as this declines, I think this will kind of get more intense.
00:25:10.900 You know the meme that's very popular on the dissident right, and particularly among, like, Tucker Carlson viewers and things like that, which is that hard times make strong men.
00:25:24.280 Strong men make good times.
00:25:26.360 Good times make weak men.
00:25:27.860 Weak men make hard times.
00:25:29.440 Hard-minded times make strong.
00:25:30.540 And that's usually how it goes, right?
00:25:31.780 So, okay, I, you know, I more or less agree with the sentiment of that.
00:25:39.640 There's a little too much luxury in the world, and you become decadent and frivolous and weak and so on.
00:25:47.340 And there's a kind of natural cycle where that leads to bad things.
00:25:56.080 And it might ultimately lead to chaos, but out of that chaos, stronger people will arise.
00:26:01.540 So I kind of get it.
00:26:02.880 I agree with the essence of what they're saying.
00:26:08.920 But the people who share that meme are actually the ones who are going to bring about bad times.
00:26:18.820 And what I mean by that is that, like, these so-called weak men that these guys rage against, they're raging against them from a resentment standpoint.
00:26:33.560 Like, they're raising, they're raging against them from a lower status.
00:26:39.660 So when they say, like, weak men, they're talking about, like, the current Secretary of State or Biden's latest press secretary or an MSNBC commentator.
00:26:55.200 So that's who they're raging against.
00:26:56.800 And those people, whatever you want to say about them, like, I would agree with a lot of criticisms of them.
00:27:08.920 But those people are actually actively managing the current system.
00:27:17.140 And due to the fact that it's going and the mail gets delivered, they're doing a fairly good job.
00:27:24.700 And it's actually these guys who share the strong men meme that are probably going to eventually end up attacking the system.
00:27:38.060 So they're the ones that are actually going to bring it all down.
00:27:44.220 Yet they want to blame the weak men for this.
00:27:49.180 And the people sharing those memes aren't necessarily even the strong men.
00:27:53.840 I mean, the people sharing those memes are like the guy who's a manager at Bed Bath & Beyond, but wants to be a horse trainer or a factory laborer or something, but kind of can't due to, to be fair to situations outside of his control.
00:28:15.340 So he's a kind of power.
00:28:16.340 So he's a kind of bourgeois LARPing as a proletariat or peasant.
00:28:25.260 But it's those people who, again, are kind of like enraged against the current system and the current order.
00:28:32.980 And it's those people who are going to bring it down, you know, whether it's like J6 or Ye-ism or, you know, just the kind of like aggressive stupidity you see in this like Tucker Carlson video about men like heating their balls and wrestling.
00:28:55.100 And like, those are the types of people who are just kind of like feeling, they feel like the world is beyond their control and they're not invested in the elite and they're raging against it as like it's feminine or it's weak or whatever.
00:29:11.940 Like, but they're raging against it always from a lower status.
00:29:15.240 And those are going to actually be the people who bring it all down for better and for worse.