In this episode, the group discusses Tommy Robinson and struggles to say a kind word about this moronic, embarrassing shill of a man. They further discuss the so-called anti-jihad movement, its history, its problems and they begin to wonder whether Islam has it all right after all?
00:00:00.760Topic two, the group discusses Tommy Robinson and struggles to say a kind word about this moronic, embarrassing shill of a man.
00:00:14.140They further discuss the so-called anti-jihad movement, its history, its problems.
00:00:21.000And they begin to wonder whether Islam has it right after all?
00:00:25.460So one of the key things which has been happening in British nationalism over the last two weeks has been the conflict between the real nationalists and the counter-jihad Tommy Robinson crowd.
00:00:37.820So it started a couple of weeks ago and some of Tommy Robinson's fans asked me and my colleague Mark Collett to go onto their channels to talk about demographics because Tommy doesn't care about demographics at all.
00:00:49.720He only cares about Islam. And it actually says on his website that they reject race-based politics.
00:00:54.300So Tommy's idea is that if everyone disavows Islam and becomes Christians or atheists, then you can say in our country, it doesn't matter if the white British become a minority.
00:01:03.800So some of his fans asked me and Mark to go onto his channel to do a few debates, which we did, and they went really, really well.
00:01:10.140Their audience seemed to really like us. So they ended up joining our movement, you know, registering at our website and things like that.
00:01:16.560At the same time, Tommy released the trailer for his documentary Shalom, which is about the persecution of a Jewish man.
00:01:24.120People were very upset about that because he crowdfunded about 18 months ago for a documentary that he was supposed to be making about grooming gangs called The Rape of Britain.
00:01:32.940And I think, I mean, I've heard that he gained two million pounds for that documentary.
00:01:37.620Don't quote me on that, but that's what I've heard.
00:01:39.420But anyway, that documentary hasn't been made, but the documentary about the Jew has been made.
00:01:44.660So people are saying, you know, where's my money? Where's the documentary?
00:01:47.500And then at the same time, his followers seem to be rejecting him because he's only focusing on Islam.
00:01:53.000So basically, he picked up on this. He picked up on all the drama.
00:01:56.200And he made these two really kind of effeminate, like little outbursts, you know, these two videos.
00:02:02.860Yeah, it was very strange. I mean, Ed, I know you've seen those two videos.
00:02:09.220Yes, I had quite a few thoughts on them.
00:02:11.680Some of them I won't say because they involve swearing and things.
00:02:14.520But I was, I have to say, it was embarrassing, really.
00:02:19.500I mean, I haven't really followed Tommy Robinson that much.
00:02:22.040But there was a degree to which the impression that I got until I learned about all this was, you know,
00:02:25.920he's a brave kind of chap who's standing up against these things.
00:02:29.420And, OK, he's not very, there's not a lot going on upstairs, but he's brave and he's, you know,
00:02:34.060he's a fighter and a brawler and he's done a lot of things that are very good and brought things to attention and whatever.
00:02:39.600And I like, I thought he was quite, seemed quite just sort of likable, or this word they use these days, clubbable,
00:02:44.780kind of a bloke, a geyser, as you say, a geyser.
00:02:49.140Although it is true that he's from Bedfordshire.
00:02:51.180And when I saw, it's nowhere near London, Luton.
00:02:53.980And when I saw the video, I noticed the kind of who are sort of this sort of burr in some of his words,
00:02:59.840which was which was as a person who is from London was was most certainly very on London.
00:03:04.720But no, it was a terrible emotional little outburst, little little kind of child, childish hissy fit, really,
00:03:11.240which which only go to demonstrate that you'd made an accurate point,
00:03:14.740because that's what people do when when you make an accurate point and they don't like it.
00:03:18.120It's this Leon Festinger, this process of cognitive dissonance, that you have something you want.
00:03:23.020You want it to be the case. You really want to have a high opinion of yourself.
00:03:26.420You really want to believe that what you want to be true is true.
00:03:30.200And if somebody triggers you and highlights the fact that's a problem, it creates this cognitive dissonance.
00:03:34.800And that will result in you getting angry and getting emotional that you can't cope with the conflictive feelings that you're dealing with.
00:03:40.780And that's what it was. You'd obviously hit the nail on the head completely and highlighting the fundamental problem,
00:03:45.060which he must know in an ideology that says it's all about Islam,
00:03:49.020which is that what sustains civilisation very substantially is IQ.
00:03:53.500And OK, and IQ is about point eight heritable.
00:03:55.820And we know from research by my colleague Davide Piffer that there are there are national differences in IQ.
00:04:03.080And these correlate at point nine with national differences in the prevalence of alleles
00:04:07.580that are associated with very high educational attainment and thus with IQ.
00:04:12.240So so these these differences in IQ are genetic and they are explicable in terms of what there's various theories you can look at.
00:04:19.200But the main one that people have heard of is called Winter's theory.
00:04:21.540This is the idea. It's cold. And so there's more problems to solve.
00:04:24.360It's more difficult, whatever. And so it's an extra intelligence simplification of the theory.
00:04:28.080But it's a it's a kind of reasonable working theory.
00:04:29.980So for him to say it's all about Islam, OK, it's partly about Islam in the sense that the average IQ of Muslims in the UK is about 90 or something like that.
00:04:38.120And and they have a considerably higher fertility than than white people or indeed any other Hindus or any other group within the UK.
00:04:45.460So, OK, in that sense, it's about Islam. But if you if you even if they weren't Muslims, they could be something else.
00:04:51.680If they had an IQ of 90 and they were out and they were outbreeding the native population, it would be very bad for the society.
00:04:58.480So it's not it's not inherently Muslim issue.
00:05:01.640I mean, I've got this book that's coming out quite soon where I look at ways in which Islam does reflect low intelligence and seems to bring about low intelligence.
00:05:07.860I mean, Islam is an issue in intelligence. But but but it's it's it's it's obviously not the only thing, clearly.
00:05:14.340And also in terms of creating a society which, as we've discussed, part of whatever that works and where people do things towards the social good and people cooperate and trust each other and will lay down their lives for the for the society as they did in World War One and World War Two.
00:05:28.480So what predicts that is a society that's high in trust and whatever and high in positive and negative ethnocentrism.
00:05:34.500And what predicts that is being a homogenous society and tattoo van.
00:05:39.020So it doesn't mean there could be no Muslims in England.
00:05:42.400But if there were if there were people that were not British in England, you would have societal tensions and you would have a society that was less willing to defend itself and whatever.
00:05:50.360And he knows that. I think he knows that.
00:05:53.000But he's kind of, as you say, he's he has this insecurity about social class manifestly, you know, less school with no qualifications and whatever.
00:06:00.880And he's kind of smeared a bit thick and he's insecure about it.
00:06:05.460And so he's dealt with that by, as you say, I think being impressed by what certain certain political types or whatever have told him to say.
00:06:13.820And so he behaved and the evidence to say for that was just the ridiculous emotional response, swearing and being disgusting and rude and nasty.
00:06:24.040And he just it was undignified. It was like it was like it reminded me of Wee Jimmy Cranky's response to Joe Swinson losing her seat.
00:06:32.020So I'm sorry, the Americans might not know that reference, but to Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish First Minister, losing her seat.
00:06:37.640This undignified yell, Diane Abbott, when she went like, get in like that, with this undignified, emotional, nasty response.
00:06:46.300And then I was thinking about some of the things that he said.
00:06:48.500One of the things that he had a go at Mark and Laura and whoever else was involved about, he said, oh, you just sit there behind your computers, pressing delete, whatever.
00:06:58.080You don't do anything. Well, no, that's clearly rubbish.
00:07:00.580I mean, one of the things we know you do is you went out and did that survey that wasn't sitting behind the computer.
00:07:05.260I mean, that was going out and talking to people and whatever.
00:07:07.680He was also saying that you were all incels, like none of you have children or something.
00:07:26.860Then the issue of no choice. Well, they're my age.
00:07:29.480They don't have your children. Go and have some sex.
00:07:30.820Well, first of all, Mark has a daughter. So that's empirically inaccurate.
00:07:36.060I'm saying, well, they're my age. Well, that's not true either.
00:07:38.320Laura is about six years younger than Tommy Robinson. So that's inaccurate in that sense.
00:07:42.860And thirdly, is he not familiar with the concept of group selection, i.e.
00:07:46.860that you can pass on your genes directly through having children, but you could also elevate your genetic interests indirectly.
00:07:53.860And some of the kind of genius figures of Western civilization who can be regarded as highly group selected and who have invented things that have allowed Western England or whatever to expand and rule the world.
00:08:05.460Those people have often not had children because they invest their energies, which other people would be investing in sex or whatever, into and in children, into their genius work or into their their nationalism or whatever.
00:08:18.480I find the idea that a person that doesn't have children is inherently a failure as an organism doesn't work in group oriented societies.
00:08:28.040And I find it particularly ironic that he said that when you consider that he came to prominence when the these people came back from Afghanistan, the Royal Anglian Regiment came back from Afghanistan.
00:08:40.460And there were these Muslim protesters at this, this Mujahroon or whatever it was called.
00:08:44.840And that's when he came to prominence with the English Defence League.
00:08:48.240Well, these were people that were group selected that were laying down their lives for the English people.
00:08:52.400Young men who didn't have children. What's he saying? That they should go and have sex and not not fight in the army.
00:08:57.460And also, we're not going to outbreed Muslims. I mean, I mean, that's not going to happen.
00:09:03.240I don't think that's possible or even desirable.
00:09:05.380We're, you know, we're just going to become baby factories and win elections.
00:10:43.160But I might get a little nasty myself because I truly do despise Tommy Robinson.
00:10:49.460I'm not sure I would say that a few years ago, but I think he has shown his hand now.
00:10:57.140And I don't think there are really any redeemable features to Tommy Robinson.
00:11:01.460And as I was mentioning before we turn the recorder on, I do think that class does reveal something about him in the sense that, you know, I think we all talk about this of, you know, the lower classes.
00:11:19.580They speak bluntly and they get it on a visceral level, maybe not on an intellectual level, but they get it in their guts.
00:11:26.940And that's maybe more important than your head.
00:11:29.440But I think with Tommy Robinson, there's something else going on.
00:11:34.340I think there is a class anxiety where he both wants to be an authentic, you know, cockney, even though he's not.
00:11:41.340But then also is told by, say, the smart set or told to be blunt by Zionist Jews that this is how you do it.
00:11:53.160This is how people will respect you and not think of you as just a racist, is to be a fervent Zionist, to visit Israel, to do some documentary on the poor suffering of this Jewish man, which reminds me of American Christian Zionists who, you know, do all these, you know, documentaries on suffering Jews and donate all their money to them.
00:12:15.520As opposed to people, you know, right here in the United States who are suffering.
00:12:22.780And I think also on a, you know, I agree with basically everything Ed just said, but I would take this a step further and look at it on a political level.
00:12:57.460It arose post 9-11, which is understandable, but it arose in the context of the United States and Britain supporting a war in Iraq that was based on lies and has done nothing for our people.
00:13:12.360And it's basically served the interest of Israel, served the interest of some neoconservatives in Washington, served the interest of maybe some oil companies who benefited, but certainly didn't serve our interest at all.
00:13:25.920And this anti-jihad movement gave this aura to these terrible wars that you are a crusader and you're fighting this battle of civilizations that will win on behalf of enlightened Christianity or whatever.
00:13:45.540And, you know, I think that kind of thing, it becomes powerful because it's kind of sub-racial.
00:13:55.760We get it that the Muslims are not us and that we're fighting against them.
00:14:01.120But I think it's sub-racial in a very toxic manner.
00:14:05.160It leads white people to support bad foreign policy causes.
00:14:11.920It clearly, it can be channeled in the direction of unconditional support of Zionism, where, you know, Israel's the front line of our civilizational battle.
00:14:23.260And Israel is a European country and they're just like us, doing the good work by, you know, occupying the Palestinians and all this stuff.
00:14:34.540And I think it's also kind of intellectually bankrupt in many of the ways that Ed described.
00:14:41.560Whenever I hear, real quick, whenever I hear these anti-jihadi people talk about Islam, it almost makes me want to convert.
00:14:48.820They basically describe Christianity as liberalism, which I guess from my perspective, it is the foundation of that.
00:14:58.300And they describe Islam as this badass, globe-trotting, ass-kicking warrior cult.
00:15:06.940And I'm just, when I listen to these people who are generally just, you know, Tommy Robinson types or, you know, Serja Trifkovich Christians or whatever, I'm just kind of like, where do I sign up for this Aryan warrior cult?
00:15:21.040Yes, I remember you were very impressed by Nation of Islam, weren't you, when we went there?
00:15:26.480Yes, we visited those people and found we had so much in common.
00:15:30.020Yeah, I just, the West, if what you're defending on the West is like the non-aggression principle or individualism or something, then I don't know.
00:16:32.220It leads to making sappy documentaries about oppressed Jews.
00:16:37.480That's where these, this anti-jihad movement leads.
00:16:41.560So I think we need to get away from it.
00:16:43.680I think criticism, serious criticism of Islam is, is absolutely needed.
00:16:51.060And we need to understand these issues.
00:16:53.520But to just focus on Islam as the problem, as opposing to focusing on racial issues and, and, and, and focusing on Islam when it brings in this Zionism and, and, you know, the battle against the anti-Semites or something.
00:17:16.140I would, I would, I'd like to add, it's, it's very, very intellectually simplistic.
00:17:20.920People just blame everything on Islam as if Islam's inherently bad, as if Islam, he calls it whatever these appalling terms.
00:17:27.500I, as you know, I've written this book about Islam, which I look at the, the intelligence, I said it, I just look at the intelligence aspect.
00:17:33.360But the more I delved into it, researching the book, the more positive I kind of became about, I mean, it's, it's, it's very, very simplistic, the way he treats Islam.
00:17:40.980I know that's, I sound a bit left wing to say, it is very simplistic.
00:17:44.720He only focuses on the negative sides of it.
00:17:46.920And in terms of promoting ethnocentrism and groups that win the battle of group selection and whose genes survive, as with all religions, but at the moment it's the main one doing it.
00:18:07.640So, so Tommy knows that Islam is connected to ethnicity anyway, because when he sent me some figures over for Muslims, he actually just sent me figures over for Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.
00:18:17.860So he knows that it's connected to those ethnic groups anyway.
00:18:41.420I, I, I, look, keep in mind, I'm Richard Spencer.
00:18:45.500I'm always kind of vanguardish and, you know, out there and so on.
00:18:48.920So from my perspective, I think in the anti-jihad movement at this point is doing more harm than good.
00:18:55.880However, I, I, I, I actually recognize your point about it being a kind of gateway.
00:19:03.100But the, there's the difference between a gatekeepers and a gateway.
00:19:06.720If a gateway leads you into a wider world, you know, if, you know, if, if you're unconscious, you know, as a 20 year old, and you know that something's going wrong, but you can't articulate it.
00:19:20.260And the anti-jihad movement kind of leads you to a, to, to, to a deeper understanding.
00:19:25.220I think it served a very good purpose.
00:19:27.040But if it leads you into forming the English, joining the English Defense League, I don't know if that exists anymore, or, you know, supporting Zionism or, or whatever, it's obviously been a gateway.
00:19:38.840It's, it's taking your good instincts and perverting them.
00:19:43.840So I think it's a real question and a serious question that's worthy of being discussed, but I, I would come down on the side that it does more harm than good.
00:19:52.500Yeah. So the issue isn't that he's sat at the gateway saying, look, guys, these are my views.
00:19:56.980Now we need to go on to these people after me.
00:19:59.100The issue is that he stood there saying, these are my views.
00:20:01.620Them little white supremacists, don't listen to them.