RadixJournal - Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie

00:00:01.000 Romain, welcome back.

00:00:03.360 Hi, Richard.

00:00:05.000 Well, Romain, tell us what it has been like living in Paris this past week in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

00:00:16.440 So, actually, it's been a hectic week, as you can imagine, and I'm sure I'm going to forget some interesting events.

00:00:27.360 But let's say that one week ago, because we are recording on the 14th of January, and on the 7th, there was a huge event that was expected.

00:00:48.100 It was the release of Michel Welbeck's book, Submission in English.

00:00:53.260 And Charlie Hebdo's issue that very day, because it's released on Wednesdays, was about this novel.

00:01:02.700 So, the latest and sixth novel by Michel Welbeck.

00:01:09.300 Yeah, sorry to interrupt.

00:01:11.260 Is Charlie Hebdo, is it all a totally cartoon magazine, or does it have satirical writing?

00:01:19.000 Is it kind of like The Onion in the United States?

00:01:21.440 So, what would it talk about its reputation?

00:01:26.020 Actually, it started in the 70s.

00:01:30.000 There was Harakiri.

00:01:32.300 So, Harakiri is what Westerners used to talk about the Japanese seppuku.

00:01:39.840 So, suicide.

00:01:40.980 And then it evolved and became Charlie Hebdo, which is both cartoonish and satirical.

00:01:53.540 It used to be more serious than what it is now, with great writers actually having columns.

00:02:01.060 It's not really the case today.

00:02:02.600 It's more provocative cartoons and not very well-written articles.

00:02:12.420 And it's, of course, left-wing, but it's of the anarchist strain of the left.

00:02:19.540 So, there are some issues with the collectivist and authoritarian left, especially about Islam, of course, but not only.

00:02:30.240 And it used to be a left libertarian magazine, but which became more and more leftist with time.

00:02:39.880 And in the 90s, for example, they petitioned against the Front National when it was an interesting party, which is not the case as of today.

00:02:51.740 I have to remind our listeners about that, because if they read Patrick Lebrun at countercurrents, they won't know it.

00:03:00.640 Anyway, it used to be more interesting, but with time, it was swept away by the cultural tsunami of the left-wing baby boomers, 1.00

00:03:16.160 which came of age and started taking over everything and become the establishment.

00:03:23.420 And Charlie Hebdo, which was at first a kind of non-conformist publication, became growingly conformist.

00:03:34.460 And so, in the 90s, which was maybe the time when they were the most aligned with the left, the establishment left,

00:03:45.260 they were petitioning against Front National.

00:03:48.740 They were asking the government to ban this party.

00:03:54.020 So, you know, so much for freedom of speech.

00:03:57.700 But then there happened something at the turn of, you know, these very decisive years of 2004, 2005 and 2006.

00:04:11.340 There were many events which were related.

00:04:13.440 So, there was the assassination of Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands about Islam.

00:04:21.080 There were riots in France in 2005.

00:04:25.040 There was the Mohammed cartoons at the end of 2005, but which elicited riots in the Muslim world, including the West, in 2006.

00:04:39.360 And these three years, which were maybe the hate of Islamophobia in the West, that's when Charlie Hebdo, at least on Islam, departed from the rest of the left.

00:04:55.520 Because they were still attached to secularism, which was a left-wing tradition, but that the left abandoned in favor of, you know, third world and immigration and, of course, keeping its Muslim constituents in Europe.

00:05:16.640 So, Charlie Hebdo started with these Mohammed cartoons and then, you know, it's, you could say it's Schmittian, but once you, you know, you depart from your side, you are forced to take another one. 0.85

00:05:35.080 And that's what Charlie Hebdo increasingly did.

00:05:38.460 And they even had some cartoons that could be described as racist in the, maybe the basic sense of the word.

00:05:50.560 For example, last year when, you know, these 200 schoolgirls in Nigeria were kidnapped and turned into sex slaves by Boko Haram, this Muslim sect. 0.90

00:06:03.980 But they had this cartoon with pregnant black women saying, we want to keep our social benefits. 0.99

00:06:16.540 And which, of course, was seen as racist.

00:06:20.480 And it was, actually.

00:06:21.640 And so, increasingly, there was, you know, the left was not really at ease with Charlie Hebdo and there were voices on both the phony right and the left that maybe they shouldn't release all these cartoons, especially those about Islam.

00:06:42.180 Yeah. And the real threat was, I think it was in 2011 when their headquarters were arsoned by Muslims. 1.00

00:06:53.000 And it was the first warning, but then it was forgotten because there was officially, at least, a police protection and they received threats, but not more than before.

00:07:07.860 And so, it was almost forgotten.

00:07:12.180 And ironically, in last week's issue, there was a cartoon the day that the shooting happened, a cartoon in the issue with, it was Sharpe, one of the guys who were murdered.

00:07:29.600 But his cartoon where you see a Muslim guy and the text above his head says, still no attack this year.

00:07:40.480 And he says, Happy New Year wishes, you can make them until the end of January.

00:07:48.900 And so, I guess, he drew this cartoon maybe, let's say, the 2nd of January, you know, so the issue can be printed and, you know, rooted and be read on the day of the 7th.

00:08:09.540 And on that day, his prediction was actually turned true.

00:08:17.880 And what's interesting, again, is that this issue was dedicated to Welbeck's novel, which was released the same day.

00:08:27.340 And the columnist who reviewed the book was murdered that day.

00:08:34.000 So, it was really, saying it was a special day would be, you know, a kind of understatement because it was really a kind of climatic moment.

00:08:49.980 It was, you know, some columnists said it was Francis 9-11 and I think it's right. 1.00

00:08:58.600 But there were Muslim attacks three years ago and it didn't have the same effect.

00:09:04.600 So, maybe we can talk about the effects now, but maybe you want to jump in about that.

00:09:11.800 Well, yeah, I definitely want to talk about the social effects and the lasting effects.

00:09:17.240 But first, I want to give our listeners a sense of the whole atmosphere of it.

00:09:23.860 Because you've long been our Paris correspondent and so you need to do your duty.

00:09:31.420 So, talk a little bit about just living in Paris.

00:09:35.220 I think a lot of people, you know, because we have listeners certainly in America, but all over Europe, all over the world really. 0.90

00:09:41.200 They, they've probably seen images of this rather disgusting parade of horrible, degenerate politicians. 0.87

00:09:52.000 They've probably seen images of that.

00:09:53.640 But, so, maybe talk a little bit about that demonstration, but also just about the whole atmosphere in this week following the attacks.

00:10:00.200 So, I have to say, I couldn't bring myself to going to this demonstration, although it's only 10 minutes by foot from where I live.

00:10:09.640 So, I had an hesitation.

00:10:13.760 I said, I told myself maybe I should go there and take pictures, but really I couldn't.

00:10:19.300 And I, you know, I didn't want to add another figure to their, you know, body count of the 3.7 million.

00:10:31.780 But actually, maybe it's not so figurative because these people were committing a kind of cultural suicide.

00:10:40.220 But to get back to the atmosphere in Paris, you know, it's funny because, not really funny, but it happened at 10.30 in the morning, I think.

00:10:56.280 And I, I don't live near, I was at work, I don't walk near where it happened.

00:11:03.700 It was 2.5 kilometers.

00:11:05.980 But, you know, the atmosphere was, as always, and I, as I said in my review, it's a colleague who came to me and told me, so, 30 minutes later, what happened there.

00:11:23.900 And, and then I started hearing all this, you know, police and ambulance sirens and fire brigades and all that stuff.

00:11:39.440 And then I, I really realized, and, but when I went, I went out at noon or maybe at one to, to buy my lunch.

00:11:51.540 The atmosphere was, you know, like in Woolwich in London, you know, in 2013, where, when there was, um, uh, this British soldier was beheaded by two Muslim blacks, um, and people in the street, on the street were, you know, minding their own businesses, uh, as usual. 0.98

00:12:13.160 And it was that way that, uh, the atmosphere was at noon or one.

00:12:19.640 Yeah, I was actually in, just to jump in really quickly, I was actually in New York City, uh, Brooklyn, to be exact, not lower Manhattan during 9-11.

00:12:28.940 Um, but I, I was, I was actually, I was actually working in a, a very famous building in Brooklyn that overlooked the Twin Towers.

00:12:38.880 So, anyway, but I, uh, I, I had the same impression.

00:12:44.220 I think it was almost, it was surreally normal, uh, to put it that way.

00:12:50.160 There, there was a weird normal about people going about, normality about people going about their business, but then everyone was aware that something shocking had taken place.

00:12:59.500 And so it was.

00:13:00.640 But they act even normal.

00:13:03.000 You know, it's so, you know, they have to, to play normal to, you know, to reassure themselves.

00:13:10.740 And when I.

00:13:11.360 You have to be normal. 0.92

00:13:11.940 I mean, you, you can't be, you can't be running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

00:13:18.020 And, you know, I, I did the same, actually, when I, uh, so in the evening I had to, I know it's small talk, but I had to go to buy some, uh, food and to a grocery store.

00:13:32.900 And everyone was, you know, smiling and there was a Muslim cashier who was saying, hello, sir, goodbye, sir, which you would never, don't, you know, normally you would just say hello and goodbye.

00:13:48.240 And that's it.

00:13:49.080 And then I, I could be dignified with a monsieur twice, which, uh, which was actually quite unusual.

00:13:56.160 And so people have to play so normal to, you know, pretend things are normal, but you could feel the tension, uh, as sport commenters like to say, you could really feel the tension, but you really feel it the day after, you know, when there is a hangover and people really, uh, start being afraid, uh, and rightfully so.

00:14:21.240 Yeah.

00:14:21.760 Yeah.

00:14:22.280 I think it is, it might very well be one of those moments.

00:14:25.520 I mean, when you first said, this is France's 9-11, I was thinking, oh, well, that's, um, exaggeration, obviously, but no, I, I think.

00:14:33.360 Symbolically.

00:14:34.460 Yes, symbolically.

00:14:35.420 Not body count or, uh, is it geopolitical, uh, implications?

00:14:40.440 Of course not, but it's.

00:14:43.480 But it might be, you know.

00:14:44.540 In terms of, you know, in terms of geopolitical implications.

00:14:47.820 You, you need symbols of, uh, and, you know, Snowden, for example, was, it was not a big news to know that, uh,

00:14:55.380 the state is spying on us.

00:14:56.980 We all know that.

00:14:57.940 But this, you know, it was a crystallized moment when everything becomes, you know, bright and clear, even if everybody knew it.

00:15:10.840 Now everybody knows that everybody knows it.

00:15:13.480 And it's, that's when it becomes different.

00:15:15.880 You see what I mean?

00:15:16.880 Right.

00:15:17.380 And, uh, it's kind of the man who, the man who only suspects his wife of having an affair on him.

00:15:23.260 And then, once he knows for sure, it's, it's not true.

00:15:27.640 I'm not sure if it's better or worse, but it's different.

00:15:30.440 And I think that's the, I, I agree there, there, I'm sorry if we're going off on a tangent, but these things are worth talking about.

00:15:36.460 There are these events, and it, again, it's not really a question of body count.

00:15:40.580 It's really a question of collective unconscious.

00:15:44.220 And they change us, and they change the way we think about things.

00:15:47.320 Obviously, 9-11 did that.

00:15:48.860 But I think the 2008 economic collapse really wounded us collectively.

00:15:55.600 We kind of thought about, we looked at the world differently.

00:15:59.140 And, um, you know, I think Snowden did as well.

00:16:01.940 I think, even more than WikiLeaks, because WikiLeaks was, was about the war machine.

00:16:07.200 And WikiLeaks was more complex to understand.

00:16:09.900 Yeah. 0.96

00:16:10.180 But Snowden, Snowden was very, even a moron can understand that the state is paying on him. 0.98

00:16:17.180 Yeah, it's the state's reading. 0.90

00:16:18.020 And WikiLeaks, it was more about, you know, confidential documents, about geopolitical, you know, risk gains.

00:16:27.540 It was more complicated, but, of course, both are interrelated.

00:16:32.440 But to get back to this shooting, the thing is, so first, people play so normal, over normal, to keep, you know, being, to avoid being too terrified.

00:16:47.800 And then, the day after, the hangover, and people could not be brought to peace, because the day after, there was a first, there was another attack in, actually, a city which is called Mont Rouge, and in the southern, in the southern suburb.

00:17:07.400 It's not, you know, it's not the kind of suburb that you can hear about on Fox News or CNN.

00:17:15.480 It's, actually, I went there last summer when I was looking for apartments.

00:17:20.360 And I don't know if it's really funny, but it makes me laugh, because it's schadenfreude, I think.

00:17:26.720 So, I went there last summer, and I thought to myself, well, it's a good place to settle.

00:17:34.660 But, finally, I went to Paris downtown. 0.88

00:17:38.360 And so, there was this shooting in a normal city, and a policewoman was killed, actually, by a black Muslim. 0.99

00:17:47.720 And the day, the day after, the day after, so two days after the Charlie Hebdo shooting on Friday, there were two events.

00:17:58.600 First, the two shooters, the two Charlie Hebdo shooters were surrounded in the countryside and killed.

00:18:09.180 And at the same time, in a Jewish grocery store, there was this black guy who killed the policewoman on Thursday, who killed four Jewish customers in the supermarket.

00:18:24.760 And then he was killed.

00:18:25.700 And so, what's interesting in this course of events is that people tried to, you know, there is this bad event, and then you go back to normal.

00:18:41.960 But it was three days in a row, and then you can't, you know, you can't evade it and say that it's just a remote event.

00:18:50.460 And then you just have to go back to day-to-day life, and that's it.

00:18:57.540 It means that the threat is present everywhere and every time, and then it gets different.

00:19:06.180 But the important part of the reaction, since the attack took place a week ago, is that, so, the reaction of the political and media class was, you know, it was easy to expect.

00:19:28.340 Of course, they want to maintain their power, so their first reaction is to say that it has nothing to do with immigration and Islam, and that the worst we could do, just like after Fort Hood in Texas, the worst we could do would be to undermine diversity.

00:19:47.960 And the reaction of the French government was very close to the reaction of the U.S. Army after Nidal Malik took 12 lives, something like that, in Fort Hood.

00:20:04.500 So, it could be expected, but what was really mind-boggling and interesting at the same time was the reaction of the people.

00:20:15.560 So, everybody was putting, you know, as a Facebook avatar, Je suis Charlie, so, obviously, I am Charlie.

00:20:24.420 And so, people were saying they would demonstrate on Sunday, and that, of course, it was something that was unacceptable.

00:20:35.000 But the question that could be raised, so, you are Charlie, but do you support the fact that people publish cartoons of Muhammad?

00:20:46.560 And I'm sure if you just ran a poll among the crowd on Sunday, just asking, should we have the right, and should we publish Muhammad cartoons?

00:21:02.560 I'm sure you would have maybe one-third or one-half of the people present who would say no, you know.

00:21:09.980 And you can't avoid asking yourself.

00:21:14.900 So, if people are Charlie, but don't want to talk about Islam and immigration, does that mean that they want to die just like the Charlie cartoonists and journalists?

00:21:27.380 Well, yeah, I agree.

00:21:29.240 I think you brought up a lot of interesting points.

00:21:33.020 Yeah, maybe too much, but there are many things to say.

00:21:36.960 Yeah, no, you brought up a lot. I want to just talk about this issue a little bit.

00:21:41.580 I mean, you brought up a lot of interesting points in your short article on the Charlie attacks that you wrote almost immediately afterwards.

00:21:50.940 But, yeah, I'm always reminded of this joke, and it's a joke that can fit a lot of different circumstances.

00:21:57.860 And there's many versions of it, like a folktale, but it's the broken kettle joke.

00:22:04.400 So, a neighbor borrows a kettle from his other neighbor.

00:22:11.820 And after a month, he goes and returns it, and it has a massive crack in the kettle, and it's now unusable.

00:22:19.660 And the neighbor basically tells the borrower, you know, what's going on here?

00:22:23.960 And the guilty neighbor says, well, first off, there's not a crack in the kettle.

00:22:31.240 Second off, the crack was there before I borrowed it from you.

00:22:34.720 And third off, I never borrowed that kettle.

00:22:37.480 It's a kind of, you know, it's that over-explanation of some event.

00:22:43.460 But I think you can get at that with these politicians.

00:22:47.740 It's a kind of like, well, we've brought in all of these people who are now...

00:22:54.020 Which is good.

00:22:55.880 Perhaps.

00:22:56.480 Who are now destabilizing society.

00:22:58.940 Oh, but we can't actually rethink that decision, or we can't do something to remedy it.

00:23:05.160 Because there is no crack in the kettle, you know.

00:23:07.580 And we didn't bring them in here anyway.

00:23:10.040 They've always been here.

00:23:11.300 Yeah, it's schizophrenic.

00:23:13.120 And there were even politicians in France who said, there's no problem with immigration

00:23:18.520 because these three shooters had French citizenship.

00:23:22.840 Oh, yeah, right, of course.

00:23:24.260 You can have something like that in France.

00:23:26.100 They're not immigrants. 1.00

00:23:27.820 They're not immigrants. 1.00

00:23:28.940 They were born in France.

00:23:30.000 So it has nothing to do with immigration.

00:23:33.000 And, of course, it has nothing to do with Islam because Islam being a religion of peace,

00:23:39.500 you know, it's kind of like a mass exercise.

00:23:44.760 So you have the data and you have to work with this data, even if it's false.

00:23:52.240 But the politicians and media reaction is not really surprising.

00:23:57.160 I mean, if we were in power, we would do anything to cling to it, even if I think it's desperate as of now.

00:24:05.940 But nevertheless, there's a difference between clinging to power.

00:24:11.340 And I agree that anyone in a position of power will cling to it.

00:24:15.020 It's just human nature.

00:24:16.100 But there's a certain both mendacity but also a certain blindness.

00:24:22.980 It's almost like they're lying to themselves.

00:24:25.160 I mean, another aspect of this.

00:24:26.820 But they need it.

00:24:27.800 Yeah.

00:24:28.500 Another aspect of this, to go back to the broken kettle joke, is the connection with geopolitics.

00:24:36.440 Both of these people had connections with Iraq and Syria.

00:24:41.420 And it's a kind of, I mean, you can see this broken kettle thing occurring with the Arab spraying of a few years ago. 1.00

00:24:50.420 So in the sense of, it's like, oh, look, there are these people and they're on the street and they're kind of scary.

00:24:57.160 Oh, well, that's, you know, what should we do?

00:24:59.260 Oh, wait, they want democracy.

00:25:00.800 Or at least they're against these corrupt leaders.

00:25:03.380 Oh, so we'll... 0.94

00:25:03.840 They want Islamic democracy.

00:25:05.420 Right.

00:25:05.760 So we'll get behind them.

00:25:06.920 We'll say they support them.

00:25:08.020 And then, uh-oh, watch out.

00:25:09.720 They actually don't like us.

00:25:11.940 And it's this, again, it's this very, it's a kind of diluted cycle that the American and Western establishments seem to go through.

00:25:22.160 Is that, you know, they're apparently, they believe there'll be no consequences, bad consequences to their actions.

00:25:27.720 And then when these predictable bad consequences occur, they, you know, want to distract everyone by talking about, you know, some vague notion of free speech rights or the dangers of extremism or something.

00:25:46.080 Even though, again, I mean, there are dangers of extremism, sure, that's obvious.

00:25:50.440 But, again, some of these things, they're very predictable.

00:25:52.800 You can't predict when and where and what it's going to happen.

00:25:58.360 But you can predict that something's going to happen.

00:26:01.340 There are going to be consequences to all of these things that American and European, Western European elites are supporting.

00:26:09.800 Especially when you give weapons and money and training to people who are going to train terrorists.

00:26:19.340 Right.

00:26:19.580 Which is exactly what happened.

00:26:23.760 You know, these guys went to, so some went to Yemen and another one to Syria.

00:26:34.160 But, you know, it's not, it's no longer a national conflict.

00:26:39.140 It's more a regional one.

00:26:40.680 And so, and so with borders, which are porous, you have all these weapons and guns that cross the borders.

00:26:52.520 And so what you give to so-called moderate activists will end, you know, end up in the hands of real terrorists.

00:27:02.300 Right.

00:27:02.500 And that's exactly what happened.

00:27:04.160 And there was this cartoon that was on Facebook last week.

00:27:10.980 So you see, it was a French one.

00:27:14.100 You see François Hollande saying that it's a horrendous act of terror.

00:27:22.080 And then you have Assad saying, you don't say that when you send them my way.

00:27:26.500 And so, so terrorists are bad when they're in the West, but in Syria, it's fine. 1.00

00:27:35.840 Oh yeah.

00:27:36.240 They're moderate radicals.

00:27:37.880 And they did far worse there.

00:27:40.020 I mean, we are not talking about 12 people.

00:27:41.980 We are talking about dozens of thousands of people who were killed by guys who were funded and trained by the West.

00:27:52.940 And all the West, you can keep calling it that way.

00:27:57.480 But, yeah.

00:27:58.860 But about the elite, I mean, the fact that they are blind is, you know, if you're wounded and you have to finish a race,

00:28:07.780 you will close your eyes and run as fast as you can.

00:28:11.100 And even stop breathing, it's not really surprising.

00:28:15.080 What's more, if I were still a reactionary, I would say it's depressing.

00:28:21.280 But I really mean it when I say keep calm and ride the tiger.

00:28:26.720 It's a reaction of the population.

00:28:29.680 So it's all about free speech, but nobody wants to talk about Islam, which is obviously there are two topics at hand here.

00:28:40.940 It's Islam and immigration or Muslim immigration, one subject, you know.

00:28:46.740 And so we don't talk about the elephant in the room, but it's all about free speech.

00:28:52.940 Yeah.

00:28:53.100 We embrace the vague value of free speech, which, again, I don't want to seem American-centric here,

00:29:00.240 which is not really present in France, to be honest.

00:29:05.560 But not even in America, not to bash.

00:29:08.840 And in America, we have other forms of pressure that stifles free speech.

00:29:17.000 But anyway, no one actually wants to hear things that they don't want to hear.

00:29:22.620 But they kind of love to talk about free speech as this vague, gooey, abstract concept that basically has no consequences.

00:29:31.880 I want to go back to the First Amendment in the U.S. because it's precisely the problem.

00:29:38.540 So some voices, but we are a minority, say that we should have a First Amendment in all countries of Europe.

00:29:47.760 But it was not a state or a government or a judge that sentenced these cartoonists and journalists to death.

00:29:57.460 It was terrorists who were acting outside of the law.

00:30:00.620 And so you could well have a First Amendment in France and still have these terror attacks.

00:30:08.500 It's, you know, and especially because I was following the trends on Facebook.

00:30:16.260 And I saw American contacts, you know, remind the audience that there's no freedom of speech in France

00:30:26.960 and implying that there was still one in America.

00:30:31.160 But they should know about, I don't know, someone like Jared Taylor or Kevin MacDonald

00:30:36.700 who don't really enjoy freedom of speech.

00:30:40.020 So granted, they can't be prosecuted for their writings and, you know, their speeches.

00:30:49.240 But they can feel social ostracism or, you know, you can be out of a job.

00:30:55.820 So it's more about, you know, all this Joshua Charlie thing is about preserving the appearances.

00:31:05.840 Yeah, I think you actually hit the nail on the head because I was joking about how there really isn't free speech.

00:31:11.720 But I think, as you were saying, this is not even a free speech issue.

00:31:15.960 I mean, no government was arresting Charlie Hebdo writers for criticizing the state.

00:31:24.280 No, they were part of the establishment.

00:31:25.240 They were part of the establishment.

00:31:26.920 And they, even though they were probably a little, you know, a bit on the, you know, let's say extreme

00:31:34.000 or scatological or outrageous side of things, nevertheless, they put forth establishment values.

00:31:41.620 I mean, we have a lot of similar things to that in the United States, these people who think they're outrageous

00:31:46.640 while they're just reiterating, you know, things that Barack Obama and George Bush both are agreed on.

00:31:55.280 But it's not even that.

00:31:56.620 I mean, they're missing the whole point by even talking about free speech.

00:32:00.940 It's not about free speech.

00:32:02.280 It's about the consequences of the establishment.

00:32:05.160 And, you know, it's the consequences of mass immigration, the consequences of, say, Islamic immigration, 1.00

00:32:12.520 the consequences of these geopolitical, these foreign policies of arming moderate rebels and training them.

00:32:20.300 I mean, it's just, that's what it's about.

00:32:23.380 And yet that's exactly what no one wants to talk about when you see, you know, Angela Merkel

00:32:28.840 and Sarkozy and Moulin holding hands and Bibi Netanyahu is there and some Palestinians.

00:32:35.260 With Mahmoud Abbas.

00:32:36.740 The two guys were standing next to another, which was hilarious, you know, because it all means that

00:32:45.100 they're part of a global elite.

00:32:50.040 And again, I don't want to sound too conspiratorial, but it's really for the elite now about clinging and strengthening their power.

00:33:03.000 And they have to do what it takes.

00:33:05.500 And what it takes is for Angela Merkel to demonstrate supposedly for free speech in Paris

00:33:12.700 and then to demonstrate in Germany against Pegida, which is a form of free speech, actually.

00:33:20.320 Oh, without question. 0.98

00:33:21.160 Oh, Angela Merkel embracing free speech is ridiculous. 0.81

00:33:25.820 You have people who are in jail in her country who have, you know, unorthodox opinions about the Second World War. 0.79

00:33:35.700 I mean, these are people who have committed no crime.

00:33:38.020 Yeah, they've committed no crime in the real sense of the word of harming someone else or their property or something like that.

00:33:47.100 They simply have an unorthodox opinion.

00:33:49.020 Whether it's right or wrong, that's irrelevant.

00:33:51.000 And they are in jail as we speak in Germany.

00:33:54.440 And yet Angela Merkel, this, you know, our good little religious, comes from a good little religious communist family,

00:34:01.940 but she's now a good conservative. 0.92

00:34:03.180 And she's talking about free speech in Paris.

00:34:06.560 I mean, what a joke these people are.

00:34:09.520 And Cameron.

00:34:11.440 Right.

00:34:12.000 Cameron, who is at the head of a police state, one of the worst in the world, with CCTV everywhere.

00:34:18.340 And, you know, children in school being, you know, sacked for racism at the age of six.

00:34:27.060 And he has a goal to talk about free speech.

00:34:31.740 And it's something to be expected from them.

00:34:34.700 Oh, yeah.

00:34:35.160 I mean, I'll just mention it.

00:34:36.680 I just wish more would see through it.

00:34:38.820 I feel that sometimes these events, they always serve to kind of rally around the establishment.

00:34:45.400 I mean, 9-11 did, of course.

00:34:47.580 I mean, that was the, you know, era of flag-waving. 0.97

00:34:49.780 But nevertheless, that made a little more sense in that it was an act of war directed against the society of government.

00:34:58.280 But just these, you know, the fact that people would rally around Hollande, even Sarkozy was there for whatever reason,

00:35:04.900 and Angela Merkel, that they would rally around these people, is just truly appalling.

00:35:12.820 Just to also mention one more thing about David Cameron.

00:35:16.540 I think I saw this, and I tweeted it yesterday.

00:35:19.300 But he's actually promised that if elected, reelected, he's going to ban all encrypted communication.

00:35:27.400 So that basically includes iMessages on, you know, Apple products.

00:35:34.040 It includes WhatsApp, which is BlackBerry messages.

00:35:39.480 WhatsApp, I think, is the largest messaging service now.

00:35:43.080 Snapchat or whatever.

00:35:44.580 I mean, anyway, he's going to ban these in the United Kingdom.

00:35:48.520 This is a great, you know.

00:35:49.960 Oh, of course, free speech.

00:35:52.100 Say whatever you want.

00:35:52.920 We're just, you know, we're going to listen in and perhaps even arrest you if we decide that.

00:35:57.440 You know, it reminds me that there's a very good series about Big Brother, let's call it like that, in Britain.

00:36:07.420 It's Black Mirror, which is on Channel 4, I think.

00:36:12.920 And, of course, you can find it by legal or a little less than legal means on the Internet.

00:36:23.220 And it's really about that, and it's excellent.

00:36:26.400 But to get back to this demonstration, so there were 3.7 million people in, not only in Paris.

00:36:38.480 I think in Paris it was 2.5 million and 2 million.2 remaining was in the other cities.

00:36:48.900 And for American listeners, to imagine what it means in American terms, so France's population is one-fifth that of the United States.

00:37:02.060 So imagine a demonstration with 18.5 million people in the U.S.

00:37:10.760 So that means really something important.

00:37:14.140 Of course, it means that you still have 60 million people in France who didn't demonstrate.

00:37:20.360 But in a way, I felt orphan of a country on Sunday night because, you know, I was seeing all these people, even people I know and I used to, you know, have a good opinion of.

00:37:35.040 And, you know, changing the avatar and, you know, talking about this free speech thing when the rest of the year when I send them links about things that are important, they don't, you know, they don't bother read.

00:37:55.940 And I really felt that, you know, when we talk about riding the tiger or letting the car, you know, the Tyler Durden thing to stop trying to let, to control everything and just let go.

00:38:14.820 And, you know, we are really at this point now and it doesn't mean that we should do nothing or don't try to convince people that can be convinced.

00:38:25.420 But there are people who can't be, you know, you can't reason them because it's not about free speech.

00:38:33.960 Of course, of course, it's not about being safe from Islamic terror. 1.00

00:38:38.720 It's about reassuring oneself.

00:38:42.800 And when there are disturbing truths, you can't reassure people without, you know, first telling the truth and then bringing solutions to the problems that the truth underlines.

00:38:56.980 Yeah.

00:38:57.100 And so first you have to, you know, to be aware of that and with people who refuse to be aware of that, you can't really do something.

00:39:09.620 So that's the day I have said it before, but this time it was really official that the day when I felt I didn't have a citizenship.

00:39:21.420 You know, I saw this kind of national fervor about something that is not only ridiculous, but also immoral to, to demonstrate behind all on Merkel and Sarkozy and Cameron.

00:39:36.920 It's really, you know, and Netanyahu funded these terrorists and then he's happy to have, you know, a citadel state that can expel them, but then he's happy to send them in Europe and Sweden is happy to take them.

00:39:54.880 You know, it was, you know, it was, you know, I prefer focusing on more constructive things, which maybe in this podcast lead us to bring us to Welbeck's novel.

00:40:11.260 Yes.

00:40:11.800 Let's, let's talk about Welbeck's novel.

00:40:15.740 He's someone who is fairly well known in the United States.

00:40:19.720 Well, I remember I read a few reviews of his work a number of years ago and I decided to start to dive in and I've actually read the Elementary Particles and Platform, which are both really worth reading.

00:40:38.320 Platform is probably the one that has affected me the most and it's kind of stuck with me the most, maybe because it included so much sex.

00:40:46.740 But let's just talk a little bit about, you know, who he is.

00:40:54.620 Why don't you, I guess maybe the best way to jump into it is to talk a little bit about this, this kind of long-term scandal that was occurring before anyone could have possibly even read his latest novel, Submission.

00:41:08.160 So first, I have to say it's funny, but so before Submission was released, actually, I read the five first novels last year.

00:41:25.040 Before 2014, I had never read Welbeck because, I don't know, but when something is, you know, it's like when a movie is too popular, I have the contrary and tendency to be wary of it.

00:41:46.680 And so I waited until last year to read the five novels in maybe the matter of one month or five weeks, one a week, you know.

00:41:58.780 And so I read the five ones last year and, of course, I was expecting the sixth one.

00:42:06.680 And in December, I went on Amazon and pre-ordered the book to get it on the day, the official day of the release, so the 7th of January.

00:42:19.940 And there was this controversy going on for weeks, and I referred to it in my article because first I wanted to talk about the controversy and what it reveals about what I termed the age of tweets.

00:42:37.640 And so the book was not released, and there were still people praising it and criticizing it.

00:42:45.560 So, of course, the establishment types were criticizing it because it was about French's Islamization, and there was the identitarian movement, which is referred to in the novel explicitly.

00:43:01.440 The identitarian bloc, the bloc identitaire, is mentioned explicitly in the novel.

00:43:07.640 And so, of course, since I knew them for a time, I found it interesting.

00:43:15.640 And there was this controversy going on for weeks when even the leaked copies were not available at that time.

00:43:23.660 And then they were, but, you know, it takes a while to really read a book and be, you know, able to analyze it.

00:43:34.080 And so there was this controversy going on about not the content of the book, but just the title, Submission, which, as we know, the Arabic word for submission is Islam.

00:43:52.220 So people knew it was about Islam, and it would bring some, you know, uncomfortable subjects.

00:44:04.060 And in an Ulubeckian way, submission also has very strong sexual connotations.

00:44:10.180 And that's, you know, you're right to mention it.

00:44:15.020 And there are maybe two common themes in the six novels by Welbeck.

00:44:24.780 His first, sexual misery in the West. 0.73

00:44:27.480 And the second one, which is related, is the fact that the Western software of, you know, humanism and the seek to, you know, human individual happiness on earth has come to an end.

00:44:51.520 And he says that in, you know, the famous interview he gave just before the novel was released, he said that the Enlightenment was dead.

00:45:02.060 And which, of course, is true from our perspective.

00:45:09.280 But so these themes are always common in the six novels, and especially in platform, of course.

00:45:17.720 So you have a main character, which, of course, is Welbeck himself, at least in the elementary particles, it's true.

00:45:31.640 And then it's at least partly himself, who is, you know, sexually dissatisfied.

00:45:39.340 And then you have the relations there is between the sexual misery, which is not only concerning the character, but also Western society at large.

00:45:53.380 And the fact that the West is dedicated to earthly human happiness, which can't be fulfilled and then leads to temptations of other things.

00:46:06.160 And so in a novel released in 2005, which was in English, it was a literal translation, I think it was the possibility of an island.

00:46:18.680 And there are two parallel stories between a guy who is outwardly successful at the beginning of the 21st century, successful in sexual terms, but also sexual in his career, and he's gotten rich and he's famous and socially respected.

00:46:40.680 So he's respected.

00:46:41.300 So he shouldn't be, you know, worried and he can even get women when he wants.

00:46:50.200 So it's not, it's not really an issue for him, but he's dissatisfied anyway, because the sexual liberation is only about carnal satisfaction, which he less and less gets.

00:47:08.000 Because, you know, it's like a drug, because, you know, it's like a drug and you need higher and higher doses.

00:47:13.020 And then you, you're not getting it, especially when you're getting older.

00:47:17.900 And then the other story is the story of his clone, actually, it's a kind of, you know, a journal written by his clone centuries later when humanity has become a kind of,

00:47:36.040 mankind is living in a kind of matrix, a kind of big honeycomb where everyone has this, you know, as their own, you know, shuttered space.

00:47:53.200 And the only contact with the other human beings is through internet.

00:47:58.120 And of course, it's a metaphor of the world we live in.

00:48:02.480 And when we talk about the future, we're always talking about the present.

00:48:06.620 And so an alternate ending this time was that this desire of, you know, going out of history, this desire of an end of history, finds an answer with Islam, which is, you know, the central topic of submission. 0.94

00:48:31.140 And so the main character finds a way to be satisfied with women through the conversion to Islam, but it's more general.

00:48:43.900 It's not only about sex.

00:48:45.200 It's just that the West has extinguished, you know, itself, the Enlightenment project, the Humanist project, which dates back to even further.

00:48:58.400 Whether it's the early 16th century and even the late 15th century, actually, this, you know, desire to be at peace and, you know, not care about having a higher purpose leads to Islam, which finds many answers. 0.63

00:49:20.040 Right. I mean, I think it's this contradiction where Islam is the flip side of the end of history or, you know, Islam is the nightmare of the end of history, but in a way that it's the end of history's nightmare. 0.96

00:49:35.240 You know, it's something that is peculiar to the end of history and is almost a consequence of it.

00:49:41.300 I mean, I think the platform novel, and it's funny, I haven't posted this podcast yet, but we actually did a podcast with John Morgan on Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece, Eyes Wide Shut, and we talked about platform for a little bit because the Ulebek controversy was in the air at the time when we recorded it.

00:49:59.360 But, yeah, I think that, so I'll talk about it again, because it's a very relevant novel.

00:50:04.820 And it's, again, you know, I read a lot.

00:50:06.840 This thing I wrote, this novel I read about seven or eight years ago now, but I still remember it quite vividly.

00:50:14.000 But anyway, it's a story about the kind of average, decadent Westerner who, you know, goes on business junkets to Southeast Asia and, of course, you know, patrons, prostitutes, and all this kind of thing.

00:50:28.320 And, but, you know, he goes to poor traditional societies and symbolically rapes them, you could say. 0.93

00:50:36.200 But he also has this love affair with a Parisian woman, and, and then they, they experience all sorts of, you know, carnal desire and, and, you know, all new, new ways of having sex.

00:50:52.220 And again, like a drug, any drug, you, there's, there's a kind of the, the marginal return keeps diminishing, and you need more and more and more in order to get back to that original high.

00:51:03.600 And that, that's certainly the case for him.

00:51:06.600 And, but it's kind of interesting of, by the end of the novel, it, it's like sexuality is transfigured to, it's seemingly opposite.

00:51:20.660 What I, what I mean by that is that, in the end of the novel, they start to transform his, his, his girlfriend's travel agency into an agency that, that will have, into just a full-on sex tourism agency.

00:51:34.400 So they're going to drop all pretenses and just say, this is about experiencing eroticism with other races and traditional societies.

00:51:45.900 And, but it becomes, in a way, the, the kind of ultimate expression of the Enlightenment project and the end of history.

00:51:53.820 And so it becomes, they, they actually have a, a, a saying, which is, a pleasure is a right.

00:51:59.620 And I think at one point in the novel, they talk about, oh, this, this will really resonate after all of the humanitarian interventions in Serbia.

00:52:06.100 You know, we, it's all about human rights now.

00:52:08.420 And, you know, of course, if you have a human right to a fair wage or to health care or to, to what, what have you, then why not?

00:52:18.140 You, you, you also have a human right to orgasm and to orgasm in various exotic ways. 0.98

00:52:25.200 And so it was kind of like, go to Kenya and find African boys, go to Thailand and screw these people. 0.99

00:52:33.420 It's just, but again, it's just the fact that it's wrapped up in human rights dogma is just, in a way, so perfect.

00:52:40.220 And again, I don't, spoiler alert, if you haven't read it, then I don't want to ruin the novel for you.

00:52:45.540 So please avert your ears. 0.83

00:52:47.520 But at the end of it, essentially, they all get blown up by Muslims. 1.00

00:52:52.000 And there's a sense to it of this kind of needs to happen. 0.95

00:52:57.000 This is the out.

00:52:57.980 This is the, this is the reaction to it. 0.95

00:53:01.500 Gotham must be destroyed. 0.99

00:53:02.740 Yeah, but in a, in another way, on a, on a whole other level, being, getting your limbs blown off by, by Muslim terrorists is almost, in a way, the ultimate act of sadomasochism. 0.99

00:53:18.000 You know, it's a, it's like, you've already been gang banged and whatever. 0.99

00:53:24.260 The next step is to die by having a bomb thrown at you. 0.99

00:53:29.600 I mean, you see what I'm saying? 1.00

00:53:31.120 Yeah. 0.96

00:53:31.520 It's like the ultimate orgasm is, is death.

00:53:35.160 And Shakespeare actually talked about that.

00:53:37.780 If you, sex and death are linked in, in language throughout his plays.

00:53:42.200 But anyway, all I'm saying is, it's, I think, you know, Ullebeck, I don't, I don't think he, he's not on our side.

00:53:49.000 He's not an identitarian.

00:53:50.300 No.

00:53:51.000 He's not, he's not, whatever, whatever a movement is.

00:53:53.560 Maybe I should say a little more about that, you know, in submission that you were about.

00:53:57.740 Yeah, but I'll say, I'll, I'll let you talk just real quick, is that, he's, no, Ullebeck is not on our side.

00:54:04.980 He doesn't, he's not coming from our wavelength.

00:54:07.240 He's not of any side, actually.

00:54:09.340 He's not on anyone, anyone's side.

00:54:10.720 I think that's good.

00:54:11.360 He's an anarchist, that's it.

00:54:12.840 And he's such an expression of the zeitgeist that I think he's powerful and important.

00:54:18.560 He seems to get at our nightmares or the, he seems to, you know, we talk about free speech.

00:54:24.400 He talks about those things that in a way we don't want to talk about, the ultimate implications of our society.

00:54:31.720 So in that sense, I think he, without question, should be read.

00:54:34.560 Well, let's do this, Romain.

00:54:36.300 Let me, let me, I'm going to let you have the last word and then we'll put the proverbial bookmark in it. 1.00

00:54:41.960 So.

00:54:42.760 Oh.

00:54:43.540 So soon.

00:54:45.860 Well, yeah.

00:54:48.020 Well, Beck, he's not of any side, but as you said, he's expressing the zeitgeist.

00:54:56.600 And, you know, it even shows in his physical appearance because he has really been, you know, rotting off these last years because of alcohol abuse.

00:55:09.760 And, uh, I think he smokes a lot and, uh, in submission.

00:55:14.760 So the identitarians who don't read books enough, uh, and they quote Ebola, but they don't read him or any other author for that matter.

00:55:24.880 They read, uh, you know, maybe blogs.

00:55:28.440 I'm not even sure of it.

00:55:30.900 Uh, no, that's a fact.

00:55:33.080 Um, so they, they thought that well back was on their side and they wrote him a letter.

00:55:38.720 Um, saying that, uh, at least if on someone who agreed with them, first, I have to say that an artist and a novelist is an artist, uh, you know, he's not a politician.

00:55:52.600 So it doesn't have to be pro or contra or, you know, it's just about writing a novel, even if there are political implications.

00:56:03.280 And then in the novel, which I read, uh, entirely from first to last letters, uh, what, what I read is that the identitarians are trying to, uh, prevent France from electing a Muslim president and they fail.

00:56:22.800 And then you have a Muslim president and France is, you know, uh, trying to build a new Arabian civilization with, uh, near and Middle East and North Africa.

00:56:36.460 And, uh, and, uh, and that's, that's an answer to many problems, according to well back, especially regarding feminism, uh, because, uh, you know, Western women are finally, they are disappointed by sexual liberation.

00:56:55.340 And they want to get back to being, you know, um, household maids and, and, uh, please their husbands and men are tired, uh, with hookups and they want to, they can have several wives, but, uh, if they're rich, but they want to get back to a normal life.

00:57:17.160 So it's not truly what's an identitarian could expect, uh, at least, uh, regarding Islam, maybe not about feminism.

00:57:26.760 Yeah.

00:57:27.420 So submission ends in, on this note, and it's the first time well back, uh, states such a thing, because even in platform, it ends on, um, an Islamic terror attack.

00:57:40.420 But there is a character who tells, uh, the main character that eventually Islam will, uh, be defeated by modernity. 0.93

00:57:49.800 And he goes even further in the possibility of an island because it's about the future, uh, several centuries from now.

00:57:57.060 And, uh, uh, all mankind has adopted, um, a new sect that is about, you know, kind of new age sect, uh, that is about reencarnation, carnation.

00:58:08.940 And, um, so it's basically something that goes against Islam. 0.56

00:58:13.900 So Islam is defeated. 0.97

00:58:15.300 It's a possibility of an island.

00:58:17.700 And, um, so.

00:58:21.260 Well back is not on our side, whatever that means.

00:58:25.160 Uh, but what, I mean, it couldn't be more topical, you know, and, uh, what really struck me and is good to end on this note, uh, for me, um, is that, you know, when you read this novel and you know what's happening today in France, not only, uh, regarding the attacks, but also what's happening with national fronts.

00:58:54.340 And, um, um, the identity movements.

00:58:57.820 So on the right and on the left, the parties that are, uh, you know, that have more and more difficulties to keep, uh, their secular platform because of Islam and the fact that Muslims vote for them. 0.96

00:59:13.880 Um, and, uh, you know, it's really well informed.

00:59:17.560 And I, I even recognized some people I met on the far right, uh, for example, there's a hooligan, uh, Paris football, as we say in Europe.

00:59:29.660 So you say soccer, a Paris football hooligan with, was, was got the first name of a night, a medieval night.

00:59:38.000 And, um, actually I know I met a guy with the first name of medieval night and was one of the leaders of these Paris hooligans.

00:59:49.680 So something tells me that maybe he met people he shouldn't mention publicly, uh, or maybe knew them, or maybe he got information about them.

01:00:03.500 But, uh, what's really interesting is that, you know, it's not really an over, it's more like, uh, it takes the situation now and just accelerates it.

01:00:15.740 And even if it's not really realistic that a Muslim regime, uh, is imposed in, you know, 2022, so only seven years from now, what's interesting is that not even if it's not realistic, it's what more and more people are talking about, especially since last week.

01:00:37.660 So it's, uh, well, back in a kind of, uh, messenger and, um, his solutions are not our concern.

01:00:46.960 He doesn't, he doesn't really provide solutions actually.

01:00:51.300 Just that when you, if you want to find a novelist today that really describes, uh, what's happening today, you, it's, it's maybe the, this is the best one.

01:01:05.820 Um, I have to mention before, uh, closing that, uh, platform that you referred to was published only two weeks or maybe 10 days, uh, before 9-11 and it ends with a, an Islamic terror attack.

01:01:23.920 So, you know, I can't say more than that.

01:01:28.260 I mean, no, I mean, some of these writers who even delve into parody, they, they, in a way, delve into prophecy.

01:01:36.040 Uh, but let's, let's just put a bookmark in it and, uh, I, this certainly won't be the last thing we have to say about this matter.

01:01:43.520 But, Ramal, thanks for being on the program once again and, uh, I'll talk to you soon.

RadixJournal - January 17, 2015

Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie

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