RadixJournal - LIVE： The Decline of American Christianity

00:00:00.000 All right. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you are. This is Radix Live.

00:00:10.060 I'm Richard Spencer, and I have Mark Brahman, my friend, colleague, co-conspirator, on with

00:00:20.280 me. Mark, good morning. How are you? I'm doing well. It is a good morning. It's a pretty

00:00:29.740 kind of overcast day here in Massachusetts. So that's more or less what it is out here

00:00:36.620 in the mountains. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. Yes. Well, we'll bring the light of the sun

00:00:45.400 to this muddied atmosphere. First off, we are going to talk about Christianity in America

00:00:56.620 and the clear decline that you can see in polls that has expressed opinion to pollsters,

00:01:07.760 which we should also always take with a grain of salt, but it does show something. Also,

00:01:12.640 a clear decline as measured by church membership or synagogue or temple membership. So we are

00:01:21.400 clearly going through a major process. And so this brings up some interesting issues

00:01:26.260 that I think, you know, we've been discussing these the last few weeks, but just the issues

00:01:32.760 of secularization, atheism, and belief in the 21st century. And I think we can even add

00:01:39.820 a kind of generational aspect to this because that's very important. And most important of all,

00:01:46.480 we can ask, where is this going? What does this mean? And where is this going? What does this

00:01:51.900 actually say about us? So I would like to mention that we will take super chats and we do that through

00:02:01.540 entropy, which is a great service. And so you can ask a question there. We will read each and every

00:02:09.800 question. Many of them are very good. Some of them are highly provocative, insightful. Some of them

00:02:15.920 are stupid, but we'll read them all. But let's jump into this. So there was a recent Gallup poll

00:02:25.200 about, and I guess it wasn't quite a poll. It was a measurement of church attendance. And I'll share

00:02:35.180 this on the screen. It was pretty dramatic, just in the sense that we dropped below 50%.

00:02:45.040 For the first time ever. And so I'll show you the poll right here. And I'll zoom in a little bit.

00:02:54.320 Throughout the 1950s, roughly 75% of the American nation was attending a church. It was mostly churches.

00:03:06.780 There were obviously some people of Jews who were attending a temple. I would say there were very few

00:03:14.660 mosques in the United States in the 1950s, although I'm sure there were a few. This more or less

00:03:22.180 continued. I mean, it's actually a remarkable statistic in the sense that we went through the

00:03:30.060 uproar of the 1960s, the 1970s, and even the heady 1980s. And yet that didn't actually affect church

00:03:41.440 attendance all that much. It was still around 70%. But around the year 2000, there is just a noticeable,

00:03:50.540 you could probably say linear decline of church attendance. And it's now getting close to a

00:04:00.100 kind of parabolic collapse. And we are below 50% church attendance. Now, this is also interesting

00:04:09.580 when you break it down in terms of denominations and male. I'll first look at just breaking it down in

00:04:20.700 terms of generations. So basically, church attendance is declining pretty equally among all generations. So

00:04:32.780 we can look at this as a secular decline and a long-term trend in which younger people are more

00:04:43.660 secular, at least less likely to attend a church. But you see basically a 10% decline over the past 20

00:04:50.820 years with all generations. They're calling them traditionalists here. This is silent generation,

00:04:56.220 baby boomers, Gen X, millennials. We can just make that assumption.

00:05:00.940 There are also some real interesting statistics. So what I see here, first off, these declines are

00:05:11.280 happening. Again, they're happening across the board. It's somewhere between 10%, 20%. But women are

00:05:19.600 generally more religious. So churches are becoming more feminine, you could say. These declines are

00:05:29.520 particularly intense among Catholics. And they are occurring pretty steadily, but less so among

00:05:41.640 Protestants. So they just broke these up between Protestants and Catholics. I think you could probably see some

00:05:46.740 interesting divides between, say, mainline Protestants and evangelical Christians. Although the fact is, this is

00:05:53.800 happening across the board, it's happening among Republicans, Democrats. And so we kind of are getting

00:05:59.940 to a certain type of polarization. It's happening among married and non-married. We're getting to a certain

00:06:06.140 type of polarization where large numbers of, you know, there's still a strong majority of church

00:06:14.760 attendance among conservatives among conservatives. We're seeing less so among Democrats and even less

00:06:21.680 so among independents. So why don't we just start talking about this? Because these are just basically,

00:06:32.780 you know, polls, membership roles. They don't tell us much of anything. You know, there's just a bigger

00:06:38.360 question of what this all means. I would say that I probably wouldn't underestimate the power of new

00:06:50.940 atheism, particularly on the internet. And the fact is, this steady decline since the year 2000

00:07:00.280 is pretty directly associated with, I guess it's, it's, it's directly associated with two phenomena that

00:07:07.760 were kind of two sides of the same coin. It was, it's associated with say, you know, Richard Dawkins

00:07:14.020 book that God delusion, which is a runaway bestseller. I think it came out in 2006. Um, and new

00:07:21.580 atheists kind of taking to the internet. There was a time about 10 or 12 years ago where YouTube was

00:07:28.200 dominated by skeptics and basically these atheist debates that were occurring at colleges and they

00:07:34.800 were on YouTube and there were people, uh, jumping on this bandwagon, people who, who didn't have

00:07:42.700 degrees that would make kind of more fun, entertaining videos, uh, about atheism and, you know,

00:07:48.980 BTF owing the creationist or whatever. Um, there was probably some interesting intellectual content,

00:07:55.800 but, uh, yeah. Um, the other, the other thing that was happening at the same time was the George

00:08:05.620 W. Bush years and this impression among liberal critics and among evangelical Christians that

00:08:13.080 evangelical Christians had taken charge effectively, that they were the ones, they were kind of running

00:08:19.920 the Bush administration and that the Bush administration was really about them. It was

00:08:26.380 about being pro-life about loving God. And in fact, foreign policy was, uh, inflected by all of this,

00:08:34.660 that there was a kind of evangelical democratization effort going on where, you know, with, with this

00:08:43.480 godly Bush and the, um, you know, the, um, American country, which has always been conservative and, and

00:08:50.340 it's, it's awakened. And, um, we are going to basically kind of take over the world. We're going to turn

00:08:57.800 Muslims into freedom, loving, patriotic, maybe even Christians. And you could actually even see this or

00:09:05.020 Ann Coulter wrote a infamous column shortly after 9-11 that we're going to bomb their cities and convert them to

00:09:11.720 Christianity. Um, that was the title, I believe. And so there was this very, there was kind of two

00:09:19.040 impulses that seemed to be two sides of the same coin. There was the evangelical impulse on the one

00:09:24.300 hand and the kind of liberal, it wasn't quite cynical to be honest, but a liberal, uh, atheist,

00:09:33.880 openly atheist movement, um, on the other hand, and they both seem to have achieved the same thing.

00:09:40.880 Um, in the sense that I do think that Dawkins and internet atheism had a great, had a great effect

00:09:49.220 on the belief of average people. Um, it, those ideas were out there. I also think that evangelical

00:09:57.500 Christians writing high in the saddle actually had a great effect on belief in the United States,

00:10:03.540 uh, in the sense of, I think it turned off a lot of people and it led to a kind of polarization

00:10:08.820 where if you were Christian, that meant you loved George W. Bush in the Iraq war and were, you know,

00:10:16.860 holding hands while we all go to the shopping mall after 2011 and waving flags. These were real things.

00:10:23.380 And it led, it, it led to two things. I think it led to people getting turned off from Christianity.

00:10:29.520 Um, but I think it also led to a kind of hyper polarization, which on some level probably boosted

00:10:37.020 Christian belief in the sense that, you know, I'm a Republican, I'm a good American, therefore I must

00:10:42.820 be Christian, even if I haven't thought about it too seriously. Um, but also I think it was, and, and this

00:10:48.800 is probably the primary aspect of it. I think it was a big turnoff, um, to more sophisticated people.

00:10:56.520 It's kind of like, so this is what Christianity is this like, you know, kind of intellectually

00:11:04.160 insulting, goofy, embarrassing president who's engaging in these catastrophically expensive

00:11:10.140 and ruinous wars overseas. Uh, that's not for me. Uh, what do you think about that, Mark?

00:11:17.380 Um, you know, I, it's, it's interesting. I've always had a kind of, um, and people may be surprised

00:11:22.780 to hear this actually, but I, I, I, I think I've always had a kind of sympathy for, you

00:11:28.380 know, in that, in that sort of divide between Christians and atheists, I've had more sympathy

00:11:33.180 for Christians. Um, I, you know, I, they're kind of, um, not picking, you know, and I think

00:11:41.100 for a while I was actually, um, I, I think I was more of the opinion, which might be an opinion

00:11:47.000 that, um, Ed Dutton has or other people have now. Um, though I think that this is not to

00:11:53.160 suggest that anyone's insincere in their belief, in their Christian belief, for example, but

00:11:57.980 there is a kind of, there is a kind of utilitarian value to Christianity. I used to be of that

00:12:03.340 belief that it had a cultural value and that it would actually be better if the society became

00:12:10.760 more Christian as a, as opposed to more bacchanal, as it were more degenerate. Right. So, and if

00:12:17.240 the left and atheists to maybe a kind of lesser extent, they're more in the sort of intellectual

00:12:22.200 realm, but, um, if the country were to go in one of the two directions, right, it would

00:12:28.360 seem to me that it would be better if it went in a kind of Christian direction, uh, as opposed

00:12:33.180 to a kind of more decadent or bacchanal direction. But I think I'd always, you know, you know, once

00:12:38.040 you kind of read Nietzsche, you sort of can't go back on some level or once you like, and

00:12:42.420 I, and I, and I had an initial, and this is probably a reaction. I think that a lot of

00:12:45.920 Christians are not Christians, but just people who are kind of of our general mindset, who

00:12:51.840 are thinking about, you know, big ideas and big, um, picture stuff, like the direction

00:12:58.780 of the West and this sort of thing. Right. Even if, even if they're like sort of proto racist

00:13:04.000 or proto national, you know, white nationalists or whatever the question, what, how,

00:13:08.040 however we want to use the terms, uh, but they're thinking about, uh, things in sort

00:13:12.180 of bigger terms. Um, I think people, I think it's probably because I had this reaction.

00:13:17.780 I came to Nietzsche and I read it and I was like, Oh wow, this guy's an amazing writer.

00:13:22.380 And he was saying all these sort of like clever things that I was like, okay, yeah, that's

00:13:26.200 obviously true. Like, and, um, but then I think I put it away and I was like, well, but

00:13:32.960 come on, I mean, Christianity, like that's like the whole, and it is true on a very important

00:13:38.680 level. It is just kind of a fundament of a sort of core of the West is Christian.

00:13:44.320 Well, I, yeah, I would, let me describe it. Well, if you want to go on, I have, I think

00:13:50.460 I have a way that would explain your mixed feelings. Um, I, I think that we have, we often

00:13:58.300 have this sense and Christians will have this sense that we need to save people and that

00:14:06.100 we need to either get them going to church or to give them a Bible and that that will

00:14:10.980 cure their alcoholism or their, their degenerate degeneracy, um, or it will help them, you know,

00:14:18.020 get married and so on. And so it's a, it's a kind of, um, this is the cart and then that's

00:14:24.240 the horse. Um, but I think in some ways it's putting the cart before the horse. I think

00:14:29.080 it's in the reverse is actually happening. If you have these generally healthy, you know,

00:14:38.060 evolved instincts to procreate, to be, you know, group oriented, to be a bit ethnocentric

00:14:48.560 or nationalist, uh, to reproduce yourself, uh, that if you have these kind of generally right

00:14:56.000 wing instincts that are evolved instincts, I mean, these are traditional instincts for forever.

00:15:03.180 And I'm using again, broad strokes.

00:15:05.180 They're like, they're species level instincts, right?

00:15:08.340 Yeah. Oh, maybe even beyond species level instincts. I think like proto humans were kind

00:15:15.100 of ethnocentric in some way. It's about us, the tribe being bad-ass kicking other people's

00:15:20.980 asses that, you know, that kind of stuff that you gravitate to religion. So what I'm saying

00:15:26.700 is you aren't, I mean, and I'm look, I'm sure, and I'm saying this and everyone knows what

00:15:32.280 my opinions are. I'm sure there are some instances, and I think this is a good thing

00:15:36.540 where someone will join a church and they'll get their life together and get off the booze,

00:15:42.340 the drugs and so on. That's great. Obviously no one's, um, opposed to that, but I think

00:15:47.720 it's actually, that's putting the cart before the horse to see that as a general phenomenon.

00:15:52.460 Most people have these instincts. They want life to be great. They want to reproduce,

00:15:59.360 they want to get married. And so they go to church and I, that's the way it happens. So I think it is

00:16:05.600 kind of difficult, you know, it's difficult for us to be in our position where we are thinking about

00:16:13.700 these things seriously. We are looking into what is the real meaning of the Bible? Um, what are these

00:16:21.620 religious leaders actually saying? What are the implications of all this? What is this thing

00:16:26.640 ideologically and originally? What is this thing, Christianity? And you, you're kind of counter

00:16:34.280 signaling a bunch of healthy people. I mean, when I went to church for Easter, I guess I'm kind of a

00:16:40.440 fair weather Episcopalian, but that's not unusual. Um, you know, I felt at home. It was nice. I enjoyed

00:16:50.360 myself. Um, that's kind of, you know, I wanted to be there. Um, I, you know, I didn't go in and think

00:16:59.340 that this is, you know, Oh, this is, you know, Judea versus Rome. It's blood drenched institution

00:17:05.580 that's destroying the world. I didn't think that I thought of it as a healthy thing. And I think

00:17:09.460 people have people who have generally healthy instincts are going to just gravitate to those

00:17:14.320 things in general. And so we feel as critics of Christianity or as Nietzscheans or Apollonians or

00:17:21.080 whatever, you know, whatever we might be, we feel like we're counter signaling healthy people that

00:17:26.620 we're going against the grain of what we want. And I think we're in a very difficult and maybe even

00:17:33.100 kind of tragic position, but someone's got to do it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. No, I would

00:17:41.000 agree. Uh, I, I was just, as you were speaking, I was just thinking that you and I might've had

00:17:45.880 almost kind of inverted experiences, but you can tell me if this is correct, but, uh, because I was in a

00:17:52.280 liberal setting effectively and, and living in like some of the most liberal towns in, uh, you know,

00:17:58.520 in new England. And, um, so I think that part of, I had this instinct from like an early age that like,

00:18:04.640 I was sympathetic to kind of the Republican, you know, sentiment out in the country or like the, uh,

00:18:10.500 you know, it, you know, for example, like I, and this is something I share with my brother too. We,

00:18:15.440 we very much like the Lynyrd Skynyrd music and stuff like that. So we had this, we had a kind of

00:18:21.000 appreciation for sort of the rural culture, but it was a reaction to the sort of leftism.

00:18:26.580 So we were kind of resisting our environment in a way. And I was wondering if, because it might be

00:18:32.140 that you might've had a kind of the opposite reaction. In other words, you might've been

00:18:37.100 I think I did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I remember, I remember my reaction cause I, I, um, grew up in

00:18:45.480 the eighties and nineties in Dallas, Texas. I was actually born in Massachusetts as you know, but

00:18:50.180 I grew up in Texas ever since I was two or three. And, um, I, yeah, I was generally right wing.

00:18:58.520 I would kind of root on the Republicans and so on as, as youth. Um, but I came of age,

00:19:07.660 I was at undergraduate college and, um, in a, in a young adult, you know, during the Bush

00:19:15.140 administration, George W. Bush and the Iraq war and Afghanistan and nine 11. And I did react against

00:19:22.880 it because, and I think correctly, I mean, my opinion is now the majority opinion, even though

00:19:28.280 it was a very small minority opinion 20 years ago, which was that these wars are terrible. It's,

00:19:33.920 this is leading nowhere. This is a ruinous and that you can't spread democracy around

00:19:39.980 the globe and, and what have you, I really reacted against it. And I think I also had

00:19:44.040 a kind of instinct, um, that, Oh, I'll just vaguely call it Nietzschean that was just kind

00:19:52.340 of sickened by the let's fight terrorism by going to the shopping mall, which was effectively

00:19:58.100 literally what George Bush was saying. And, um, all these people calling into talk radio

00:20:03.980 saying you're a good American. And I, I just, I, I just, I saw a kind of sickness among this

00:20:09.540 group. And, um, so yeah, I, I did strongly react against it, although I did live in a lot

00:20:16.360 of liberal, liberal places, but I remember I, I also had an, I also had my other instinct

00:20:22.300 as well, where it was like this, the liberal reaction was correct against Bush and the Iraq

00:20:31.380 war. I think everyone agrees now that that whole period was terrible effect, at least

00:20:37.980 in terms of policy. There are all these liberal celebrities trying to like revive the reputation

00:20:43.960 of George W. Bush vis-a-vis Trump, which is just totally stupid. But, um, you know, all

00:20:50.760 of those things have failed. That was, that's a moment in time that we pass through the evangelicals

00:20:55.980 haven't declared victory. They're, they're institutionally declining. Um, but so the liberal

00:21:02.980 reaction was correct in a way, but I think it was kind of vicious and wrong. I, I remember

00:21:11.400 sometimes reacting like these liberal attacks on rural poor Americans who just had these

00:21:20.480 instincts to be patriotic and they were kind of being torn down for really no reason. Like

00:21:29.020 they didn't launch these wars, you know, they're kind of following along this thing. Um, so I,

00:21:35.360 I was, I was very ambivalent and I did see, I mean, the other thing we should think about,

00:21:41.960 like, um, the concept of Judeo-Christianity, Christian Zion, Zionism, all of these things,

00:21:48.700 these are wildly popular and these are top down instituted to a large degree, but they're also

00:21:57.160 kind of bottom up instituted. Um, that notion of Christian Zionism actually has roots well into the,

00:22:05.680 to the, in the 20th century, 19th century. Um, and, uh, that is, is kind of coming from the bottom

00:22:14.400 up in a way. So I think that even though you can see patriotic instincts among the evangelicals,

00:22:20.360 there, there actually are, there's a real strong sickness, you could say a real big problem there

00:22:26.880 as well. So I, I was always deeply ambivalent, kind of felt a little bit out of place on, on both

00:22:33.300 camps. I mean, I don't think I've ever really been a liberal. It's just kind of impossible.

00:22:38.060 Even though I voted for John Kerry and voted for Joe Biden. Um, like if anyone talked to me for more

00:22:46.040 than two minutes, they would be like, Oh my God, this guy's not a liberal. He undermines their most

00:22:52.780 basic beliefs. Yeah. Yeah. I've never, I've never been a liberal either myself, but though I think

00:22:58.760 that I probably living in a liberal towns in new England, I think I've gained an appreciation,

00:23:04.440 um, for sort of the strengths of liberals in some ways. Um, and I, in, I, you know, liberal,

00:23:13.260 I've had many liberal friends, um, and, you know, often, you know, depending on a certain

00:23:18.320 socioeconomic level, often they're, they're relatively intelligent people. So, and they can

00:23:23.340 discuss things in a kind of nuanced manner. I mean, they obviously have their taboos and this sort of

00:23:28.060 thing, but, um, and you all, you know, you, you realize too, that there's a kind of cultural aspect,

00:23:32.380 uh, to these sort of liberal communities where these, there's, you know, they do appreciate

00:23:36.920 these things that are kind of more authentic in a way, um, like, you know, bookshops and cafes and

00:23:43.360 this sort of thing, you know what I mean? And you find those in, I mean, part of it is, is related to,

00:23:48.520 uh, a socioeconomic factor as well, but you find these in liberal settings, like in college towns,

00:23:53.720 you find these sort of nice cultural features that are kind of absent elsewhere. Um, but, um,

00:24:01.960 so in, in, I think that, you know, one thing that kind of like sort of epitomizes my,

00:24:06.000 my whole like ambivalence, I think is a good word that you used, um, was, uh, Leonard Skinner to

00:24:11.660 return to Leonard Skinner. There's, there's a Leonard Skinner song. That's actually kind of like a

00:24:15.380 really brilliant, like sort of seductive song. It's called, uh, a simple man or simple man.

00:24:20.500 You've heard it. Yeah. You've played this for me, I believe. Yeah. Oh, have I played it? All right.

00:24:24.780 Yeah. Well, I remember when you, we were visiting the last time we, we were, we're going through

00:24:28.860 some songs and we're having drinks. So we're kind of like listening to music for a few hours.

00:24:33.100 That was geez. Yeah. I must've been drunk if we got to Leonard Skinner.

00:24:37.500 But I mean, I mean that in a good way, of course, but, um, the, uh, but, uh, a simple man. Um,

00:24:44.380 but basically the premise is like, you know, don't be, don't be, it's a, it's a simple song.

00:24:49.620 And don't be overly complex, be a simple man. And one of the themes is like, appreciate God.

00:24:55.100 Right. You know what I mean? So what, and that's the kind of theme in, in the song. And I remember

00:24:59.680 like finding that song, like, I just thought it was a kind of kick-ass song. And again, I was in a

00:25:03.600 sort of resistive mode, uh, towards the liberalism and seeing kind of the hypocrisy of liberals that I

00:25:10.520 was around and just not like, just understanding it is wrong. As much as I, I liked the people that I

00:25:16.900 was around and I liked liberals, um, you know, who I knew on a kind of interpersonal level.

00:25:22.540 Right. Um, just understanding the sort of ideology is kind of like just wrongheaded. I mean, and,

00:25:27.140 and kind of like sort of obviously wrongheaded, like, um, but that song though, I remember in,

00:25:34.120 I actually wrote an essay about it, like in, you know, English class in high school or something

00:25:38.660 where I was like, I, I was basically describing the dilemma. Like I, I thought there was something

00:25:44.940 kind of great about the song and the, you know, this idea of being simple and not being complex

00:25:50.300 or dishonest, you know, the, an idea of sincerity and honesty. Uh, these are all kind of great

00:25:56.220 and attractive ideas. Uh, but then I, it was a kind of, I was kind of torn and I was like,

00:26:01.180 well, but I mean, he, it is kind of describing a sort of, uh, ignorance or stupidity. Like this

00:26:06.900 song is kind of an inability or unwillingness to think sort of critically. Right. It's just,

00:26:14.340 it's describing kind of the herd animal, right. In a very kind of seductive and attractive way.

00:26:19.300 But we are a herd animal and we ultimately like civilization couldn't really survive if 80% of

00:26:29.660 the population are, you know, atheistic intellectuals who are always arguing with each

00:26:36.880 other and not, you know, getting anything done and, you know, certainly not joining the military

00:26:42.640 and fighting wars or something. I mean, you, you kind of, I think the, the ambivalence can

00:26:47.840 maybe be extended to two levels where there, there have to be people who are sophisticated and

00:26:55.900 understand the implications of ideologies and so on leading. And there do, there does have to be,

00:27:03.580 I mean, just to evoke Plato as a kind of bronze class of people who don't always question those

00:27:12.760 things. And we, you know, there, there has to be layers to a society. We can't just be a big head

00:27:18.140 with no body. We also can't be a body without a head. Um, and it, I don't know. I, I think understanding

00:27:26.080 that a certain kind of class dimension is important. Yeah. And I, that actually, that metaphor is also

00:27:34.320 in the, uh, the cult of Apollo in the sense that he's also understood as a keeper of flocks,

00:27:38.760 right? So in Homer, it describes how Mercury steals his flock, you know, his sort of Semitic figure

00:27:46.180 steals his flock. And he put, he puts like feathers or brooms on the tails of the, um, of the cattle

00:27:53.600 so that they'll wipe away their footprints as they're walking away. It was a very sneaky thing

00:27:59.180 that Mercury did. Um, I'm not, I can't, I don't know if that's Odysseus in the Cyclops. Is that?

00:28:05.800 No, no, that's a, um, that's from myth, probably from Hesiod. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't

00:28:11.800 showing the kind of. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't, I can't, I don't. Mercury. Yeah. I don't remember

00:28:18.220 the details that closely. I, I, I do remember though in, in Homer, it describes how the flock

00:28:23.140 is returned. So he does return it to Apollo's house and he vows never to steal again from Apollo's

00:28:28.780 house. So it kind of has a good, you know, it's sort of the, uh, it's the cocked armies

00:28:33.720 or whatever in that case. Um, uh, but, um, yeah. So in any case, um, but yeah, so that is true. I think

00:28:42.540 that they, there are classes of men as it were. And maybe that was part of the thing that I was

00:28:47.240 reacting to is that I didn't, I didn't feel that, uh, it was sort of my position to be

00:28:52.460 someone who was unquestioning or who was, uh, a sheep as opposed to a shepherd as it were.

00:28:57.520 And maybe that was kind of the dilemma that you were facing as well with your ambivalence

00:29:01.960 or your, you know, like in other words, it's related to a kind of will to power, kind of

00:29:07.380 even a kind of individual will to power or recognizing you as someone who's distinct from

00:29:12.420 the people who are around you, you know? Um, but yeah. And I think it's really, I mean,

00:29:18.360 I think that that is, uh, just to go with this a little more, I think that that is kind

00:29:22.640 of what we're lacking is we're lacking a leadership class.

00:29:25.760 Yeah. We're lacking a gold class on the right. The right lap lacks the gold class and it's kind

00:29:32.800 of a big bronze coalition. And a lot of, again, they, they think in the silvers are all liberals

00:29:40.040 and they're, they're progressively becoming liberals. That is the auxiliary people, people

00:29:44.080 who are not golden, but kind of serve the golden class. Those are liberals. The often called the

00:29:50.140 liberal elite probably incorrectly. Um, but I, I do, I think that this is a problematic type

00:29:58.760 of society and, and I think it's even more problematic on the right where there's a, a just

00:30:04.980 total unwillingness to lead or to be sophisticated, to analyze these things, to understand implications,

00:30:13.700 long-term implications. And it's kind of a, you know, big mass. And that is problematic. I mean,

00:30:23.120 there are no ideas on the right. There are, there are people who want to deconstruct liberal ones,

00:30:29.280 you could say, but there's no aggressive forward looking idea on the right. At least I can't name

00:30:36.420 it. And when the right gets in power, they kind of can't do anything because they're so intellectually

00:30:41.260 stunted and just holding back the tide of the left, you know, you know, uh, facing off against

00:30:49.940 history, standing a thwart against history and yelling, stop. That's not good enough. That is a

00:30:54.580 losing strategy that will lose over time. Might, might take some time, but it will be defeated.

00:31:01.940 And that's the right in a nutshell. And I think it's a, a just tremendous problem and it's something

00:31:07.400 that we're trying to solve. And, um, we get a lot of, get a lot of heck for that. Um, let me read a

00:31:15.260 couple of super chats. And then, um, I want to talk about the kind of generational aspect to this,

00:31:20.160 because, um, there, I think there's a, a counter argument that as generations go forward,

00:31:28.280 we're going to become more ethnocentric. I think there's in religious and presumably Christian.

00:31:35.180 I, I think there's definite kernels of truth to that, but I actually would throw some cold water

00:31:41.680 on that. But before we do that, I'm going to read some super chat. So this actually,

00:31:47.480 I didn't read this on air the last time. This was for $50 from two weeks ago. Cause I,

00:31:52.900 I had to take off last week, but Archie Bunker, um, I was listening to some of the old episodes

00:31:58.600 from alt-right politics, by the way, what happened to Greg and Don, you guys had a great chemistry

00:32:03.060 and you mentioned that the AR should have a theme song. Um, yeah, first off, I really enjoyed those

00:32:09.760 as well. Um, believe me, it is not me who stopped doing those podcasts with, um, you know, Greg and

00:32:19.560 Don, I mean, Don's kind of doing his own thing in his private life. That's perfectly fine. Uh, you

00:32:24.580 know, Greg kind of goes with the movement and I don't, I don't know what to say, but I do think that

00:32:30.600 we had some great chemistry and I, those are great, um, podcasts that are still listenable, even though

00:32:36.120 they're a little bit, um, you know, from a few years ago and they were timely at the time.

00:32:42.640 Um, I like to recommend dare from the transformers, 1986 movie. This is the theme song for the alt-right

00:32:49.180 also conservative. I don't know that song, but we can play that maybe later on. Um, do you want to

00:32:55.940 find that one? Um, uh, Mark find dare from the transformers, 1986 movie and send that to me.

00:33:03.440 Um, maybe we'll play that on air. Also conservative inks theme song should be dare to be stupid from

00:33:09.260 the same soundtrack. Dare, dare from what soundtrack? The transformers movie from 1986. I think I might

00:33:16.460 have seen that in theaters when I was younger. I don't remember it though. I kind of remember

00:33:20.200 going in a way, but I don't remember the actual film. Um, okay. So this is now, these are super

00:33:26.440 chats from today. So we've got an actually some, some great ones. Uh, Pete gave us a hundred bucks,

00:33:31.380 Richard Mark. Thank you for the work you're doing. Wow. Thank you. Um, we really appreciate

00:33:36.460 that. Um, here's Yehuda Finkelstein for 25, uh, long time questioner and a donor. Christianity

00:33:44.440 has successfully morphed and adapted to different cultures since the time of Paul converting the

00:33:50.220 Greeks. I believe Christianity is rapidly fading as a religion for Europeans as it quickly

00:33:55.880 is becoming the creed of the global South. We see this trend with Pope Francis, Richard and

00:34:00.980 Mark, your thoughts. I'll pass that to you first, Mark. I certainly do have some thoughts

00:34:06.060 on that one. It's a good question. Well, can you do it first? Because I was actually looking

00:34:08.880 for the transformer. So I can't like shoot bubble gum and walk at the same time, unfortunately.

00:34:14.800 Okay. Um, so Christianity is, has always kind of mutated. It's always been all things to all

00:34:23.420 people as Paul said. And, um, it, you know, the, there, there was a kind of Germanic Christianity

00:34:32.040 that arose throughout the dark and middle ages and it has changed. There was a certain type

00:34:37.700 of wasp Christianity that was the old, you know, the de facto national religion for the

00:34:45.440 United States, including people who were Catholic. Uh, so it's always mutated, but now it seems to

00:34:50.340 be mutating to a religion of the global South and that it's really not going to be ours anymore.

00:34:58.100 Um, this has been something that's, this is taken up by, um, a lot of paleo conservatives. I'm

00:35:04.280 forgetting the man's name at the moment. He's, he wrote a couple of books on this issue. Um, but yes,

00:35:11.180 there, there is a definite turn, you know, in Christianity away from being a European religion.

00:35:18.640 I mean, you could plausibly say at some point, you know, during the age of exploration where

00:35:23.500 being a Christian meant that you were European, it meant that you were white effectively and

00:35:29.140 particularly vis-a-vis races that were being confronted around the world. And I think we're

00:35:36.280 now at a very different point. Christianity is making massive inroads, um, in Africa, in South

00:35:44.620 America. Uh, Catholicism is majority non-white. Um, I think probably Christianity will have a

00:35:52.280 future and it is, is not going to be a European religion by any stretch, but what are your thoughts

00:35:57.860 on that? I generally agree with what you're saying, but an interesting thing occurred to

00:36:02.900 me while you were talking, I think it, because it's, uh, or I had an idea rather, nothing very

00:36:07.580 interesting. I just had an idea, which I get, which is pretty, you know, unusual, I guess. Right.

00:36:12.900 But, um, what I think that, um, uh, rather than, because I think we, we tend to, or at least I tend,

00:36:20.820 and probably you as well, we tend to think about, you know, Christianity is degenerating. And so if,

00:36:26.660 you know, the fertility instinct in Europeans was owed to, on some level to Christianity, because it was

00:36:33.200 so central to the culture and it was, it was such the kind of sort of basis of the West. So as

00:36:38.100 Christianity wanes, so also does, um, you know, a kind of fertility instinct as well. I mean, I think

00:36:43.920 that that's something we can say kind of very reasonably. So. I think you could say that

00:36:47.480 reasonably. I think that actually is putting the cart before the horse. I think people who had a

00:36:52.640 fertility instinct were attracted to the dominant cult. I think it's actually the, kind of the reverse.

00:36:58.900 Okay. Okay. All right. And, and, uh, but I do think that the, uh, the decline of Christianity is

00:37:05.680 related to, um, uh, a, the demographic decline of whites. You would, yeah. Um, so, uh, but in any

00:37:15.400 case, um, I think that, um, so I think we tend to think about it in those terms, but I wonder,

00:37:21.920 and this is just kind of a, an idea I'm coming up with now. And I, so it hasn't really something I've

00:37:26.440 considered very deeply, but I wonder though, on a kind of subconscious level, um, if part,

00:37:33.100 and I would just only say part of this phenomena of whites moving away from Christianity is almost

00:37:38.660 a kind of like white flight. If you, you know what I mean? In other words, interesting. Yeah. In other

00:37:44.220 words, because I do think it is the case, of course, that Christianity is becoming non-white. In fact,

00:37:49.300 the process might be very similar to what occurred, uh, in Hinduism, for example, right? At some point

00:37:55.520 it became, well, I mean, look at, uh, India, India now it's all non-whites, right? So at some point

00:38:01.480 it became a non-white religion effectively, right? Whereas formerly it was not a non-white

00:38:06.460 religion. So a similar process is occurring with Christianity. Um, uh, but I do wonder though,

00:38:12.860 if, uh, because it does seem like two things are happening simultaneously and maybe, you know,

00:38:17.720 I guess this is kind of a, a harsh thing to say, but, um, you know, the whites that will continue,

00:38:23.160 um, without Christianity are probably on some level more sort of eugenically sound or just have

00:38:30.260 healthier instincts in general. So in other words, if you don't require Christianity to become

00:38:35.160 reproductive, for example, then it would, it would seem to indicate that you are a sort of healthier

00:38:40.920 animal as it were. Right. Um, uh, you know, and to, and to your point, so there could be both

00:38:47.560 phenomena occurring that, uh, when, uh, Christianity was the dominant culture, uh, sort of eugenically

00:38:53.880 fit people would be attracted to it also just to kind of fit in with the society and, and be social

00:39:00.900 and be, you know, sort of civic minded and gregarious types that are effective within a society,

00:39:05.900 that, that, that those would be sort of kind of healthy and eugenic traits.

00:39:09.860 Yeah. I think there's, uh, and there's definitely a high IQ white flight from Christianity. And I

00:39:18.300 think this had a, had something to do with the new atheism fad, which I don't think should be

00:39:23.880 underestimated. I think a lot of people look at this and like, Oh, it's a bunch of, you know,

00:39:29.900 fedora wearing idiots saying m'lady and, you know, debunking the Bible, showing inconsistencies in the

00:39:37.220 Bible. Wow. What an amazing accomplishment, you know, um, uh, and just being tedious and annoying.

00:39:45.120 I actually would not underestimate the power of new atheism. I think it was actually really

00:39:50.180 significant force that should be thought of and, you know, considered and discussed,

00:39:54.900 but I think there's a high IQ white flight away from Christianity in the sense that, um, the flip

00:40:01.420 side of new atheism was, you know, W's America. And there was a, a kind of move away from that much

00:40:10.740 like whites went to the suburbs where higher IQ professionals, you know, it wasn't their

00:40:17.440 Episcopalian or Presbyterian or Catholic church of old, where it was associated with being higher

00:40:24.920 status and class. It was something else. And it began to be associated with low church Christianity,

00:40:32.460 evangelicals fighting ruinous wars, you know, charming snakes or whatever. And it just,

00:40:41.680 it was a big turnoff. And I do think that, you know, you, you know, again, I think our movement

00:40:48.780 kind of needs to hear this, even if they don't want to, but upper level professionals, people of

00:40:55.900 higher IQ are getting increasingly turned off by this thing and revive, like not only are evangelical

00:41:03.000 churches declining, but which they are in just real numbers. Um, but as Christian is, as, as this kind

00:41:12.360 of upper tier people start moving away, uh, in the Christian, in the Christian church has become

00:41:18.100 more associated with the evangelicals, that that's going to be a real problem for them to dominate

00:41:26.180 the churches going forward. That is going to be a major turnoff to people with IQs above 115. It just

00:41:32.000 is. Yeah. And I, you know, in one thing I would want to remark that I think about, um, uh, I guess

00:41:39.500 often is that, um, you know, efforts like our sort of directions that you and I are kind of headed in

00:41:46.860 or different directions than Christianity. We're kind of in on a separate path. Um, and I think

00:41:52.680 that, um, and you know, Christianity is, uh, uh, is ostensibly a religion that doesn't suffer other

00:42:00.420 idols. So it is hostile to other religions. It's a hostile to paganism, at least, you know,

00:42:06.100 historically it is. Um, now I, I don't know that it really feels like it has the muscle right now to

00:42:11.840 sort of flex that kind of authority and start, you know, and start demanding the destruction of

00:42:16.840 idols or, or, or, you know, uh, the persecution of pagans or that sort of thing. It doesn't really,

00:42:22.340 it's, it's not really positioned in the way that it could do that if it wanted to. Um, I, but I think

00:42:28.520 that, um, you know, in the DR, I think that, you know, I, I'm, I obviously am often sort of critical

00:42:34.660 of the DR in general, but I think that, um, and probably too critical in some way in some cases,

00:42:40.340 but I think that, um, this idea that there are maybe two different evolutionary paths right now.

00:42:47.460 So in other words, um, if we take the example of Apolloism or kind of the, uh, sort of more pagan

00:42:53.560 direction you and I are headed, there's also kind of a, a, a sort of non-mystical direction,

00:42:58.420 which I think also makes it distinct from other forms of paganism out there. In fact, I think that

00:43:03.600 pagan, this sort of mystical paganism is in some ways more similar to Christianity. Uh, they're

00:43:08.720 both kind of engaged in, uh, uh, kind of, if not superstition, a kind of veneration of mysticism and

00:43:16.020 superstition. Um, I think that we, we can see a kind of evolutionary branching or two directions going

00:43:25.000 in two sort of evolutionary directions. And I would think that if people are, you know, kind of hold

00:43:33.080 race as a, like sort of the number one priority, which is generally the thinking of the DR that

00:43:38.420 the thing that is similar about everyone in the DR is that they, um, they believe in race or they

00:43:45.060 believe in their interest in protecting their race and their interest in the interests in the

00:43:49.240 amelioration and survival of their race. Now, if I, if that were their sort of first priority,

00:43:54.400 and obviously I don't think it is the first priority of everyone in the DR. I think a lot of

00:43:58.460 people in the DR have a religious priority that supersedes it. Um, and, or even a political,

00:44:05.400 uh, priority that supersedes it. But I think that, um, you would think that if that was the priority

00:44:11.640 of people in the DR, that they would be open to other people going in a different direction

00:44:16.420 and trying something else. Right. So yeah, they're not, but I mean, so let's just imagine we're all in a

00:44:22.920 sinking boat or something and there's two different boats that you can take. Right. Right. And we did

00:44:29.220 neither of us know ostensibly if one of which one is seaworthy. Right. But both are, are, are options.

00:44:37.920 Um, you would think that people would not be opposed to someone taking a different boat to see if that

00:44:43.160 could be the way that we would survive. Right. And so that, that's the only thing that I would,

00:44:47.960 I would say. Uh, but again, I, I think that Christianity in its historical, um, manifestation

00:44:55.040 was, is hostile to people taking a different evolutionary route. Yeah. I mean, it is the

00:45:00.580 one true way. And I, and I think that's something that you can't get away from. And I think that's

00:45:07.000 something that's deeply embedded within Judaism as well. I mean, you can see that in that Yahweh is a

00:45:13.860 jealous God. Um, that that's at the very top of the list of commandments. Um, it's not love thy,

00:45:21.640 you know, love thy neighbor. I mean, that's obviously Jesus, but it's at the very top of

00:45:26.820 the commandments is that there should be no other idols before me. Uh, the actual meaning of Tikkun

00:45:33.500 Ulam, which is this, you know, almost become a kind of liberal catchphrase of heal the world. It is

00:45:38.920 about resisting, uh, idolatry. And what does that mean outside of the destruction of all idols? So

00:45:49.460 there, there really is a continuation from Judaism through Christianity in its universalist message.

00:45:57.480 You, you can't, I mean, they're Yahweh or, you know, God in the Christian sense cannot really be

00:46:05.220 in a pantheon of other gods. It cannot tolerate other gods. It is fundamentally distinct. Whereas

00:46:11.900 a Roman pagan there, I mean, it's a subordination don't unquestionably. So it's, it's kind of hierarchy,

00:46:20.200 but it is, it is tolerant on some level in the sense that it can recognize other gods. It can

00:46:27.260 recognize foreign gods. Even there's no problem for Apollo or Zeus with other deities existing,

00:46:34.860 whereas with Yahweh or God in the Christian sense, that is a major problem. Those people are going

00:46:41.280 to hell that those idols need to be destroyed. I mean, even this kind of like pejorative, uh, quality

00:46:48.580 to the word, you know, um, uh, idolization, uh, or, or so on that you, you can't do that. I remember

00:46:56.400 what were we, we were accused of being racial idolaters at some point. Um, that, that is a deeply

00:47:02.980 Christian impulse that somehow idolizing something is a problem. And so I, I don't, I mean, I agree

00:47:12.500 like in a perfect world, there can be different tracks that we can take. There can be, you know,

00:47:18.200 I'll try this path. You try that one. Let's see where we end up. But I, I think there's something

00:47:24.060 just so distinct, maybe unique in Christian monotheism that they, they will not tolerate

00:47:33.960 that. Yeah, no, it's true. And I think the, the, uh, maybe the most telling passages, I'm the,

00:47:41.400 I'm the truth in the way, right. Which is, and only through me effectively that can you go to heaven.

00:47:47.480 Um, so I think that, um, yeah, I mean, you know, uh, one thing too is, um, um, I think that,

00:47:56.800 uh, um, and this is, I think this is something we can talk about as well is that, um, the,

00:48:03.500 this sort of kind of mystical mindset. And I think that this is something I, I'm actually not totally

00:48:08.320 clear on his position on this now, but Ed Dutton, I think talks about in, I, in, uh, our last exchange,

00:48:14.740 I don't know what, uh, where he is on this right now, but essentially it does seem that studies

00:48:20.160 correlate, uh, religiosity with lower intelligence. Right. Um, and it seems like a kind of obvious

00:48:26.740 thing. Like even if you can't find the sort of perfect conditions to run the test and, you know,

00:48:31.360 you can, you can, you can concede that there are contextual aspects to it. Like, as we were just

00:48:36.140 discussing, like if you're in a society where Christianity is dominant, there is a kind of,

00:48:40.960 the healthy instinct is to be a Christian and to be, or the kind of civic minded instinct is to be a

00:48:46.300 Christian and to go to church. If that is what allows you to be sort of a, a, have status in

00:48:52.240 your community and do business and whatever the case may be. Um, but, um, it does seem that

00:48:59.020 religiosity, and I think that we are kind of returning more to this sort of primitive or religion

00:49:03.560 or primitive form of Christianity, as you've mentioned a number of times, um, that it is

00:49:10.460 correlated with lower intelligence. So, um, and this, you know, this will also get to the point

00:49:14.540 that, um, yeah, Christians are more, uh, they're more reproductive, uh, than liberals. Uh, and they

00:49:21.840 also, uh, as Ed points out, um, there, there is, uh, some like significant or very meaningful

00:49:28.400 degree of heritability, um, in terms of religiosity. Um, but, but to stay with my original point,

00:49:35.740 which is, um, you know, whatever the number of Christians, whatever the number of Christians

00:49:41.360 are left or end up being as, as we go through this, this crucible, as Ed describes it of, you know, um,

00:49:48.360 wokeism or liberalism. Um, it, it seems that one of the big problems with the model or, or the hope

00:49:56.180 in that Christians are going to somehow like, um, become once more dominant in a sort of cycle,

00:50:01.940 um, is that they are, I think that they are effectively a less intelligent group, right?

00:50:08.100 So the people that become, the people that remain Christian, uh, and especially that are characterized

00:50:13.780 by religiosity, as opposed to making a kind of conscious and political or utilitarian decision

00:50:19.600 to remain Christian, which I don't, you know, I, I, I don't really think that that's what's going on,

00:50:24.720 uh, in the main of Christianity. I think that they are genuine and sincere Christians

00:50:28.780 that do, uh, evince religiosity, which is effectively superstition, uh, that it is a less intelligent

00:50:36.480 group. And that in the difficulty with that, I mean, is, well, if they have numbers, then they

00:50:41.360 have political power, right? But really, I mean, we know that the society is not, is never run by the

00:50:47.760 majority. Uh, the majority is, it does represent this kind of herd that's manipulated by elites,

00:50:53.260 um, by a, uh, by more intelligent groups that sort of point the direction of the society.

00:50:59.800 And Christians will have no ability to sort of, not even to like sort of secure their own existence

00:51:04.480 as it were. Um, because they, they simply won't eat whatever their numbers are and their numbers

00:51:10.260 are diminishing because Christianity is declining. We're talking about white, you know, you're, you know,

00:51:15.060 white Christians now, um, they, they, they will end up being a less intelligent minority in a

00:51:22.180 multicultural, uh, you know, country, uh, that is, um, you know, there's dominated by Jews and now

00:51:29.120 Asians to a certain extent. Um, and they, they, you know, so you can't, having a religion that

00:51:36.040 effectively makes you less intelligent, um, even if it does give you a kind of zealotry, as Ed pointed

00:51:42.800 out, uh, in, uh, not his most recent book, but the, the one previous about, uh, Islam, um, even

00:51:49.440 if it gives you a kind of greater intensity or zealotry and even fertility, um, it doesn't make

00:51:55.480 you, it doesn't allow you to sort of control the direction of societies or the direction of the world,

00:52:00.220 which is really the kind of the big question. I mean, you know, we need an elite that kind of

00:52:05.360 can sort of determine the fate of humanity or determine the fate of the world.

00:52:09.120 And that is connected to the state as well. It's, it's obviously connected to culture makers

00:52:14.140 and so that's very important, but it's also connected to the state and in Christianity has

00:52:17.840 always had this ambivalence towards the state. Um, you know, Jesus Christ is railing against,

00:52:25.880 you know, Jewish elites, certainly within his own community, but he, he, he, it's, it's,

00:52:30.020 it's a anti-Roman organization, you know, thing at the very basis. He was ultimately executed by

00:52:38.420 the Roman state, uh, for declaring himself King of the Jews. I mean, that is what happened. And

00:52:44.920 as Christianity grew, I mean, it's actually a remarkable story. There've been some recent

00:52:50.120 interesting books written about this one by Bart Ehrman, one by someone else whose name I'm

00:52:54.580 forgetting. I think his last name is Stark. Uh, but Christianity kind of grew,

00:53:00.020 grew much, I don't know. There, there's some parallels even with like the alt-right and

00:53:04.900 dissident right or whatever. It was a religion that was looked down upon. It was, it was the,

00:53:12.740 the elite, you know, sped on it. I mean, they, they, they did not see this as a, um, as a,

00:53:20.560 certainly a great thing or a positive thing at all. And they were kind of growing in these

00:53:26.800 early stages, um, by winning over converts at a kind of exponential rate where you, there might

00:53:34.320 have been dozens of Christians at one point. Uh, but you start to grow and it grows and grows

00:53:41.360 and you reach this mass. Um, but again, the, the big ambivalence of Christianity is the state.

00:53:47.480 Now we don't, we, we shockingly don't know a lot about Constantine and his personal conversion and

00:53:57.180 then toleration of Christianity and how that related to the Sol Invictus cult and, and, and so on. But

00:54:03.700 there, we, we reached a point where the state was beginning to not only tolerate Christianity,

00:54:10.140 also canonize Christianity, kind of get it in line. And then, because there are lots of different

00:54:15.560 sects in those first few generations, um, but then make it a state religion. And I think there was a

00:54:21.460 lot of state building that went along with the monotheism aspect that that's not the only way to

00:54:28.840 build a state. Obviously Romans built a state with pantheism, but, um, in the, in the Greek system,

00:54:35.100 effectively that they, you know, um, modulated, but monotheism was a part of state building.

00:54:42.780 And as the, the central and Western Europe began to be converted, this was connected to the state and

00:54:51.420 connected to high leadership. So there's this weird aspect with Christianity where it's kind of

00:54:57.920 becoming itself again, and it's returning to something where the state is certainly tolerating it,

00:55:07.220 but maybe a little more hostile or kind of post-Christian, not quite a Christian, but post-Christian.

00:55:15.540 Um, and it's kind of going back to its roots. We're kind of seeing a revival of a certain kind of

00:55:22.600 primitive Christianity. And I, I even noticed this a number of years ago with people who are

00:55:29.020 non-denominational, sorry, non-denominational Christians who kind of salt call themselves Christ

00:55:35.580 followers. And they have reduced the religion, all of the smells and bells of Catholicism or high

00:55:45.280 church Protestantism, all of those things have been dispensed with. And maybe even going to an

00:55:50.340 organized church has been dispensed with. And what you're left with is basically this kind of

00:55:55.860 primitive message of Jesus Christ, which is loving your neighbor, uplifting the poor,

00:56:03.180 the meek, she'll inherit the earth. That's, you know, uh, you know, some basic dictates from Paul

00:56:09.640 and Jesus as this kind of like rudimentary, you know, core Christianity, the core message,

00:56:18.060 moving away from the state, moving away from the pageantry of high, the high church and getting to

00:56:24.700 the essence. And, you know, in some ways Christianity is kind of becoming what it is in this long cycle.

00:56:35.460 Yeah. You know, I, I was going to, uh, point out something a little different. Um, uh, though you did

00:56:41.020 make me think of a couple of things when you were talking, um, maybe I'll return to them, but I, but what

00:56:46.540 I was thinking though was, um, I was thinking about how the, the fact that Christianity does represent

00:56:53.640 a kind of superstition and it represents a kind of drunkenness in a way, like it's a kind of

00:56:58.560 irrationality. Um, I think that we overestimate the extent to which, uh, Jews are threatened by

00:57:05.560 Christianity. And I, you, you and I, the work that we've done, you know, evaluating, uh, cinema and

00:57:11.160 art, um, reveals that they actually kind of understand Christianity and understand that

00:57:17.260 parable in ways that we don't. And they, and they don't actually, they, you know, they identify

00:57:22.440 with Christ as a Jew and they, um, and there is a kind of esotericism that, um, you know, the common

00:57:29.060 Jew is probably unaware of, uh, but, um, I think that they, they have a different view of that parable

00:57:35.880 and in, in, in a way it's similar to Marxism in the sense that like, you know, Christianity hasn't

00:57:40.940 been tried, like, or, you know, communism hasn't been tried. Like, I think that that might be

00:57:45.080 a little bit more of the view of, of Jews because Jews are intelligent and they can look at the

00:57:50.500 religion itself and realize that the religion is, is about loving your enemy, right? That, that,

00:57:55.300 that's one of the most important passages in Christianity and kind of one of the most

00:57:59.340 off repeated passages in Christianity in, in terms of the propaganda of, of like this sort of

00:58:05.620 early stages. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, and so, uh, Jews know that, that, that is, it actually kind of

00:58:13.320 represents a kind of psychological handle that they can sort of turn around on Gentiles and be

00:58:17.720 like, well, doesn't your religion say love or whatever? Like there's many, there are many, uh,

00:58:22.640 kind of, um, nuances, I guess I would say that they, they under, I think they look at it and they

00:58:27.260 understand there's a kind of creedal dimension to it that is ultimately not antisemitic. But at the

00:58:32.900 other hand, uh, on the other hand, Christianity does, has been the source of, uh, pogroms. So

00:58:40.200 there is this, uh, irrationality, um, this, uh, mysticism, this superstition of the Christian

00:58:49.360 herd or flock, uh, flock might be the better word if that's actually the word that they use in the

00:58:54.680 faith. Um, that, that superstition is a kind of dangerous thing. Like they're sort of playing with

00:59:01.020 fire on some level. Now I think what it does is that Christianity has the effect of kind of like

00:59:08.040 making Gentiles sort of, uh, disoriented in like, you know, they lobotomizes them on some level. It

00:59:15.760 makes them a less sort of like sober and, and in some ways dangerous, not dangerous, not dangerous in

00:59:23.080 the violence sense of the word, but dangerous in the, you know, the competitor sense of the word,

00:59:27.880 uh, as being someone that can be a rival to Jews effectively. So Christianity actually, uh, you

00:59:34.360 know, neuters whites on some level. Um, but I think that on another level, on a very primitive level,

00:59:42.040 it has this also aspect of something that because it can create sort of wild environment, um, because

00:59:49.280 of the superstitious aspect in this or the spiritual aspect of it, um, is that it, um, it can be the source

00:59:56.940 of pogroms. And I think, I actually think that this is in the future as things go forward and as

01:00:01.920 conditions worsen, that this could also be a role of Apolloism because our demands are very like

01:00:08.200 reasonable. We just, you know, we want the survival and amelioration of our own people. We just, you

01:00:12.880 know, that's something that we demand. We're going to, we're going to continue existing in the world.

01:00:17.100 We're going to exist forever. That's just what we're going to do. Yeah. Nothing you can really do

01:00:20.620 about it. So I mean, you're either going to help us or, you know, get out of the way or whatever.

01:00:26.520 Right. So, but, so that's the kind of non-negotiable aspect of what we believe. But I think that, um,

01:00:34.020 we though are a reasonable, we can be, we can be talked to in a reasonable way. Like Jews could

01:00:39.940 actually reach out to us in a reasonable way. Right. Whereas they, I don't think that its conditions

01:00:46.140 worsen and things become more antisemitic among, uh, right leaning Christian groups. These right

01:00:53.500 leaning Christian groups become the source of pogroms because they're kind of drunk and mad

01:00:58.900 in a way. Right. Because they think it's the, the synagogue of Satan or whatever. They think it's

01:01:03.840 the sons of the devils. That sort of very dramatic, uh, language that appears in the Bible that they're

01:01:09.680 actually misinterpreting, that they're not interpreting correctly. Right. I mean, because it's

01:01:14.160 look at, look at QAnon in January 6th. I mean, that, that, that was something because QAnon was

01:01:21.960 post-Christian you could say, because it was all about politics and the deep state and all that

01:01:26.840 kind of stuff. But it was structurally Christian. It was deeply Christian at its most basic level

01:01:33.080 with Trump as kind of a new fallen savior in a, in a funny way. And these devils in charge and,

01:01:39.680 and so on, it was a deeply Christian movement. And every single person probably who was involved in

01:01:47.220 that was kind of post-Christian on some level that they resonated with those structures and, and the,

01:01:55.540 the kind of root belief of it. And it can get absolutely out of hand. And I mean, what is January

01:02:03.800 six, but a kind of Dionysian explosion where these people, you know, on, on one level, they were

01:02:11.060 fighting with the police, pushing the men, smashing windows on another level, they were being allowed

01:02:16.220 into the Capitol and they're walking around almost like a deer in headlights. Like we've won. It's a

01:02:21.780 revolution. And they were peaceful in many ways, uh, but just totally deluded and lied to. And it's just

01:02:30.820 that, and, and, you know, I don't want to overestimate January six as well. I don't think

01:02:36.100 we're ever really in danger of a violent takeover, but that's the kind of, you know, outrage or

01:02:44.820 outburst that is potential with these people. And it's still potential. I don't think it's going to

01:02:51.200 happen tomorrow, but it's still there. I mean, I can see this something, you know, a lot of energy

01:02:56.780 intention building to something like that again, next election cycle even. Uh, so it is a danger

01:03:03.740 to the stability of the current order. And, and it, and it, again, you could see, I don't think there

01:03:09.540 would be anti-Jewish pogroms, but just the fact that, you know, someone as well, there already

01:03:16.820 have been Richard. I mean, there have been synagogue shootings, right? Right. There have been there,

01:03:22.660 there absolutely have been. And even like Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's, she's objectively pro-Israel

01:03:27.900 and, you know, not anti-Semitic clearly, but then she's kind of flirting with these,

01:03:36.180 you know, Oh, the Rothschild family has space lasers or whatever. Again, I don't want to

01:03:41.140 overestimate these things that, you know, people post nonsense on Facebook all the time, but

01:03:45.920 that type of person, that, that crude, rude type of person is clearly a potential danger.

01:03:56.120 It's someone who can be corralled, but someone who can go off the reservation.

01:04:00.860 Yeah. Yeah. So that, and I think that that, so it, it seems like, because there are, as we discussed,

01:04:06.040 I mean, it does seem that there is a Jews on, uh, like let's call them not, hopefully it's not a

01:04:12.640 vulgar term, but let's call them arch Jews, like say sort of, you know, the more intelligent Jews

01:04:17.140 that kind of can look at Christianity and see the nuances and see how it is actually valuable and

01:04:22.640 useful, uh, to their interests. Right. But then there were, uh, the kind of more common Jews that

01:04:27.920 are like, ah, this is a little weird. And they're actually, and they're, they're actually sort of

01:04:33.160 conditioned against Christianity, you know, at the synagogue level where it's, you know, they don't

01:04:39.100 want Jews converting to Christianity, for example. So they, they, there is a kind of, uh, there is,

01:04:44.120 I think, you know, Judaism also has its sort of laity as it were. Um, but it's kind of a less

01:04:51.240 obvious lady, it seems, uh, in Christianity, but the division between priest and lady seems like a

01:04:56.680 kind of more, you know, a more striking one, whereas the distinction between rabbi and a congregation,

01:05:03.060 you know, maybe there, there's a kind of closer relationship there, you know what I'm saying?

01:05:07.220 Yeah. Um, that's, that's my impression at least. And, but I think that nevertheless, there are,

01:05:14.240 there's sort of grades within Judaism where there are Jews who are, you know, just, who're not sort

01:05:19.480 of religiously or sort of symbolically or artistically inclined that are kind of, you know,

01:05:24.320 who are just, you know, whether they're intelligent or not, they're just not kind of oriented in that

01:05:28.280 way. And they, um, so they have this kind of like uneasiness with Christianity and they have this

01:05:35.440 idea of like, you know, the freedom riders down in the South, like the Jewish freedom riders down

01:05:40.160 the South getting, uh, you know, pulled over by Bubba and, you know, you know what I'm saying?

01:05:44.780 That's a, that's a real kind of thing in their psychology. Um, and I don't think it's a, I don't

01:05:49.660 think it's without, you know, as we said, I mean, now, because people have these automatic weapons

01:05:54.900 and they, there are these shooting sprees, uh, you know, occasionally going forward, it's just a

01:06:00.220 kind of unfortunate thing, you know, both churches and synagogues are going to get shot up. Everything's

01:06:05.320 going to get shot up. You know what I mean? Um, but so I think that, that, um, um, is a product

01:06:12.740 of Christianity and the kind of the breeding that is a result of Christianity, you know, on some level.

01:06:20.540 Yeah. Let's do this. Um, let me read a few more of the super chats and, um, I'll just put that up

01:06:29.520 there. If you want to, if you want to make a donation and ask a question, we will read it.

01:06:33.960 It's done through entropy. Um, you can see the, um, URL right there. It's, um, entropy stream.live

01:06:41.780 slash radix live. Um, I'll read a few more of these. And then I want to talk a little bit about

01:06:47.280 kind of going forward and like where, um, what we're going to see, because there is this argument

01:06:53.120 that you see. Eric Kaufman has made this argument in a full book called shall the religious inherit

01:06:59.260 the earth. Dutton makes this argument. I've even seen this argument trickle down to conservatives.

01:07:04.480 Um, Steve Turley is someone who has a very large YouTube following, even, uh, Tim Poole. Maybe we

01:07:11.480 could say that when Tim Poole adopts a position that means it's wrong. So, but anyway, uh, let me read

01:07:19.620 a couple more super chats and we'll talk about that. Um, so I'll just refresh this. Um, uh, this is

01:07:30.560 David Beer, um, Byron's, uh, Christianity is about the afterlife, which consists of either trillions of

01:07:39.380 years in bliss or torment, uh, based on the right belief. Thus, the best a person can do is to become

01:07:46.440 a missionary to get people saved. This would make heritage belonging, the arts and family,

01:07:51.600 not so important thoughts. Uh, yeah, I don't, I mean, I think I would, yeah, well, I would, I would,

01:08:01.780 I would simply agree. I mean, it is, you don't go to heaven because you've embraced your family and

01:08:09.560 tribe and the state. You go to heaven either through faith, maybe even faith alone, um, or through

01:08:16.400 these types of works, whether that's conceived of uplifting the poor or, you know, spreading the

01:08:23.640 faith around the world. Um, so it, it is a certain kind of problematic injunction. You, you, you cannot

01:08:33.400 believe in, you can be an atheist and serve your people and community and go to, and you, you will

01:08:39.860 go to hell. Yeah, no, I agree. And it's not, um, you know, and I think that we've discussed this

01:08:48.200 before, but like kind of, um, to the extent that the afterworld becomes like a valuable metaphor

01:08:54.140 for us, I think it's, we talk about our, you know, progeny, we talk about our children,

01:08:59.560 we talk about works that we leave behind that are beneficial to the world. And especially,

01:09:04.920 you know, from our perspective for our people and also civilization, because we also connect

01:09:10.480 civilization to our people. Right. Um, but, uh, so I think that, um, and Christianity, I mean,

01:09:18.920 this is a kind of Christianity doesn't need us. I mean, whether we need Christianity is an

01:09:24.540 interesting question and that would spark a debate, but fundamentally Christianity does not need the

01:09:31.400 white race or Western civilization. There's no question that it emerged in a powerful global form

01:09:41.300 via the white race and Western civilization. That's just an historical fact, but it ultimately does not

01:09:49.460 need us. And that could be viewed as a moment in time that is now passed. All whites could perish

01:09:57.360 and Christianity would still be true. And again, whether we need Christianity, that's an interesting

01:10:05.500 question worthy of discussion, but whether Christianity needs us, I don't think is actually a

01:10:12.600 debate, theologically speaking, and even historically speaking.

01:10:16.480 Yeah, no, I agree. It's so it's, it is, it is a kind of, it's against the cosmos or it's against

01:10:23.400 the here and now versus the, you know, the hereafter and not even just the here and now, like it's also

01:10:28.420 against ultimately, uh, you know, the, the future here and now with the children will enjoy, you know?

01:10:36.220 Yeah. Um, so this is son of John, um, love the nineties boy band haircut, Richard, a fresh start for

01:10:43.720 the spring season or a botch at the barber college. No, I actually asked for this. Yeah. You know,

01:10:52.900 I've been, I've been kind of growing the hair out longer. I just kind of wanted to just to kind of

01:10:57.380 short, fairly standard haircut, but thanks. Um, okay. This is son of John as well. More intellectual

01:11:06.080 question. Can church in America really be saved when it's white conger, when it's, when it's white

01:11:11.860 congregations are so culturally ambivalent or ambivalent from another, my childhood Lutheran

01:11:20.260 church stayed strong due to the fact that families all came from the same Swedish immigrants who formed

01:11:26.380 the church in 1887. Common traditions, familiar names, us versus them of the German Catholics.

01:11:33.100 Yeah. You know, there was a, um, I think there was also kind of a, a degree to which like being a

01:11:44.860 Catholic in the American context, it was all, it was a form of Irish nationalism. So you were looking

01:11:51.840 towards Rome in Italy to some extent, you were part of a universalist of religion, but vis-a-vis the

01:11:58.380 wasp, when you said you're Catholic, that's kind of about us, our tribe. And I, I think in, you know,

01:12:07.420 that is one way that Christianity can function. Christianity can be all things to all people. It can wear

01:12:13.320 different vestments. And I think it's increasingly not wearing that vestment and to kind of look at

01:12:19.380 Christianity in that sense, I think is nostalgic at best.

01:12:28.580 Yeah. Okay. Um, I presume you agree. Um, uh, so you, what is, well, you don't have to go into your,

01:12:38.520 you know, you use the pseudonym. I mean, is your background in, in Catholicism or in Protestantism?

01:12:45.700 Uh, well, it's, um, let's see, it's, it's ultimately neither, but, uh, you know, my mother was

01:12:53.940 Catholic. I think she's still Catholic actually. Um, uh, my father was, um, Protestant, but he was

01:13:02.540 never really, uh, you know, he, I don't think he was very ever really religious and he kind of, um,

01:13:08.440 uh, which I guess in hindsight, I'm kind of grateful. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it would,

01:13:13.420 I'm sure I would have kind of come to the same conclusions ultimately anyways, but,

01:13:17.180 but, um, he, uh, uh, but so the, so, uh, it was never really a kind of thing in our family. I mean,

01:13:27.440 it became at some point, I think we, we were going to church, but, um, by the time I was like,

01:13:32.180 you know, uh, growing up as a young guy, um, I, we, we basically effectively had stopped going to

01:13:38.000 church, but we would go on this, the holidays effectively. Right. Yeah. I think it,

01:13:41.780 which is a kind of common thing. And, um, and then, um, uh, but I think that what took the place

01:13:50.080 of it and it's, it's kind of Greco Roman in a way is that, uh, because there is, the church is a way

01:13:56.320 to be with your family for some period of time during the week. So it is a kind of family activity

01:14:01.520 and family activities are healthy things generally. Um, but I think that one of the things that took

01:14:07.960 the place of that was athletics. So we wouldn't play sports and, um, that was a way, but it was

01:14:14.480 also a way of like connecting with our family, um, and, you know, enjoying time with our family

01:14:19.740 effectively. You know what I mean? So I see that as a kind of healthy thing as well. Now, I mean,

01:14:24.300 obviously there we've, the sports culture as it exists in, um, America now obviously has many,

01:14:30.460 many sort of toxic features to it, but, um, but as it is, but sports itself, I think is,

01:14:36.760 is a good thing. It's just, it's, it's just the way that it can be abused as it were.

01:14:42.760 Okay. Well, let's talk about this issue of the future. And there, there is a, there is a meme.

01:14:53.160 Again, I, I think Eric Kaufman might've been the person to first put this into written form,

01:15:00.860 but you, you can see this cropping up. You can definitely see it cropping up with dud and it's

01:15:04.320 even matriculated into broader conservatism. And that is that just, let's just hold on a minute

01:15:11.960 and we'll win through the power of the womb. And basically all of these, you know, uppity,

01:15:22.200 high IQ whites are leaving the church on mass and they're going towards that. You know, I wishy-washy

01:15:30.240 agnosticism or outright atheism. Uh, but the people who are Christian are reproducing there, there was

01:15:38.220 one statistic, which was actually in Ed's book, making sense of race, which was that, um, when you

01:15:43.960 measure people on, on the opinion of pro-life or pro-choice, uh, pro-life women, that is they're

01:15:51.480 opposed to abortion or having one and a half or 1.75 children for every one child of someone who's

01:15:59.400 pro-choice. And you can see this actually globally where the fundamentalist in all countries, even

01:16:06.380 secular countries or religious countries, the fundamentalist are outbreeding the wishy-washy

01:16:12.920 or the secular. And if you project this forward, you would say that it might take a few generations,

01:16:20.400 but we will win in their, in the conservative mind. Um, they, they've also taken the stance of

01:16:30.480 looking at expressed polling. So expressed opinions and polling. So if you take a snapshot

01:16:37.780 of generations in a current year, you will generally see that, uh, older people are more conservative

01:16:46.380 than younger people. And this goes back to the famous Churchill line, you know, who, who is not

01:16:50.680 a liberal and youth has no heart, who was not a conservative, uh, in old age has no head. And so

01:16:56.780 the silent generation and the baby boomers are more right wing, at least as that is understood,

01:17:02.820 uh, than Gen X, Gen X is more right wing than millennials and millennials are actually what

01:17:09.980 we see from current polling is that millennials and Gen Z are very similar. Um, but this is the thing

01:17:17.700 it's that if you, across generations, the, the difference between Gen Z and millennials is slight.

01:17:28.320 And so what the argument, the way the argument goes is that yes, Gen Z just expressed polling and I can,

01:17:37.700 I can share this screen and show some of these things. Um, uh, you know, questions, you know,

01:17:45.880 pro-life questions, question of gay marriage, um, questions of, um, are blacks mistreated, et cetera.

01:17:54.860 Millennials and Gen Z are far to the left of Gen, Gen X, boomers and silent gen.

01:18:02.200 But the difference is that there's less of a difference between generations. And so once Gen Z

01:18:09.120 gets older, they'll kind of all go right wing basically is the assumption. So we're going to win

01:18:16.160 folks. We just need to give it some time. Um, I would just say that I simply don't buy this

01:18:25.100 at all. And first off, millennials and Gen Z are starting from a much more left wing position than

01:18:35.880 Gen X or the boomers ever started from as a whole. So even if it's true that you become more conservative

01:18:43.220 as time goes on, um, the degree to which, you know, the majority of Gen Z who support gay marriage

01:18:51.580 and, um, think that blacks are being persecuted and, uh, support transsexuals or whatever,

01:18:58.980 the idea that that's just going to flip to something more conservative than the baby boomers just

01:19:05.780 is not plausible. Um, and the other aspect of this, first off, Gen Z is 50% non-white that has its own

01:19:14.440 kind of. Yeah. With the definition of what is conservative is changing, right? Yeah, absolutely.

01:19:20.660 So it's what, what was conservative, uh, you know, it, what was, uh, liberal rather, I should say,

01:19:28.300 uh, 20 years ago is now conservative or it's actually the, it's actually even a smaller window than

01:19:33.020 that. It's like five years ago now, right? It seems like it's a kind of closing window, right?

01:19:37.660 Oh, we've already gone to transsexual conservatives and we, we, we, we sure that took five years.

01:19:43.040 It took like 15 or 20 with the gay marriage thing where it's like the conservative case for gay

01:19:48.160 marriage that we, we just blew right through it. We're already there. Caitlyn Jenner is running for

01:19:53.680 governor. Um, the, the other, uh, aspect about this is that I, I don't think it's so much of,

01:20:00.480 you know, we were, who was not liberal and youth, you know, I, I think it's actually a,

01:20:07.040 a kind of polarized direction. So, and polarization means just that. Well, it, it, it's polarizing you,

01:20:17.060 you're, you're separate, you're on different polls. It's also kind of means polar and a different

01:20:21.160 context. You're frozen in ice, you know, like the, the amount there was, you know, in previous,

01:20:28.780 um, elections, uh, decades ago, there was a lot of churn. So people would vote Republican,

01:20:36.880 they'd vote Democrat, they'd split their ticket, et cetera. Now people are tightly polarized. They

01:20:42.760 are frozen in ice. And I don't think I don't, that, that is what is happening. It is not a

01:20:50.480 generational thing. It's a polarization thing. And this notion that the, all of the Gen Z are just

01:20:56.860 going to become traditionalist Catholics and vote Republican in, in 20 years, I, I think it's

01:21:03.440 actually kind of preposterous. And all of these problems that people like Dutton, not so much

01:21:10.180 Kaufman or Steve Turley or whatever, the problems that people like Dutton are talking about, um, the,

01:21:16.420 the kind of spiteful mutant thesis in the sense that child mortality has of course collapsed

01:21:23.240 with the marvels of modern medicine, industrialization, et cetera. And so, so many people

01:21:30.420 who would not have survived early childhood in previous eras are now walking amongst us.

01:21:39.840 And because the brain is say 80% of the genome, um, a mutation, um, mutational load, a mutation

01:21:50.080 of the body that you're, you know, asymmetrical or, or weak or sickly, et cetera, that that's

01:21:57.520 likely to also have a mutation of the mind. And thus you will have maladaptive ideas like,

01:22:05.100 you know, women should never have children. That's evil. Like, you know, we should value

01:22:12.120 Africans above Americans. Uh, it said that we should, it's only good and right to give over

01:22:19.240 all of our wealth and privilege to other people. Those maladaptive ideas are going to be present

01:22:25.600 in these spiteful mutants. Um, all of these trends are there for Gen Z as they are for all generations

01:22:35.520 since 1800. Um, so again, they might be polarized, uh, and I think they, they are, that's clearly the

01:22:44.920 dominant trend, but the idea, as you said, that conservatism is going to change in some new way

01:22:51.940 is also clearly there. There's just no reason to believe that all of these people are going to be

01:23:00.440 kind of healthier than previous generations. So. Yeah. And I, the other thing too, is that Ed,

01:23:07.680 uh, points to a significant heredity, heredibility, um, of really, uh, religiosity. Um, but there's also,

01:23:16.220 I mean, a not insignificant, um, percentage that is, that is not, uh, heredible, right? So in other

01:23:22.720 words, if you have five children, they're not all necessarily going to become Christians or

01:23:27.120 some, some are going to become liberals, right? Whatever the percentage is, you know, one or two

01:23:32.400 are going to become liberals. And often they will be the more intelligent ones, the ones that have

01:23:37.980 greater, uh, sort of cultural sophistication and the people that will sort of, uh, more likely occupy

01:23:45.500 the sort of upper positions in a, in a liberal society. We live in a liberal society. Uh, but

01:23:51.880 this sort of less intelligent Christian group will not be able to master, uh, this sort of

01:23:58.060 bacchanal environment that it's in. You know what I mean? As it becomes a sort of dwindling minority

01:24:03.400 and it doesn't become more intelligent, you know, and the intelligent members of that group will become

01:24:08.700 liberals or will become secular. Yeah. You know, because they'll question it. They'll, you know,

01:24:13.620 and I, and I mean, Ed points out that it's, you know, uh, you know, not being a, which I agree with

01:24:19.460 that, um, you know, intelligence doesn't correlate with nonconformity. I think that that's true,

01:24:24.720 but I, I do think it, I, it obviously does correlate with critical thinking. And again,

01:24:30.200 I would argue very strongly that it, it, um, it correlates with sober minded thinking as opposed to

01:24:37.180 high intelligence combined with high testosterone clearly is connected to nonconformity. You are

01:24:44.580 willing to, you are kind of autistic of an extreme male brain. You are willing to question everything

01:24:49.980 and break the rules and create a new paradigm and lead us into the future. Uh, that's clear. Now I

01:24:57.200 would say mid range, high intelligence, the kind of silver class or the midwits that clearly is

01:25:04.880 correlated with intelligence, excuse me, with conformity, because they're able to kind of,

01:25:09.920 you know, go with the flow. You know, it's like, if you are a corporate. So yeah, I wasn't talking

01:25:17.620 about, like, I wasn't talking about badasses like ourselves. I was talking about the, the general,

01:25:23.920 like sort of intelligent people. Right. Like if you're a middle manager at Netflix, you'll be like,

01:25:28.860 Ooh, I, I, I sense a social trend here. I'm able to kind of intuit general rules from

01:25:34.780 specifics. So I, I see where the trend is going and I'm going to feed that trend. And in order to

01:25:40.280 not get fired from my job for being a racist or sexist or whatever, I'm going to just imbibe these

01:25:46.180 new rules and live my life by them. That is a kind of mid range, high intelligence thing. Now I think

01:25:51.520 there are, there is a, you know, bad-ass high intelligence where you're like, fuck the rules,

01:25:57.540 you know, I'm going to create my own new rules, but that those are exceptional people. Um, but yeah,

01:26:03.560 clearly like mid range people between the IQ of one 10 and one 25, like there, they see where things

01:26:10.980 are going. They're able to kind of see a little bit ahead and they're going to go with that as to

01:26:15.880 attempt to be the middle managers of this new demographic. I mean, I just think that's clearly

01:26:21.720 going to happen. The idea that we're going to put our, our chips in with this like growing low IQ

01:26:30.240 population that can't understand the rules of society, that they're going to win out by sheer

01:26:35.400 numbers. I don't buy that at all. Um, the history has never really works that way. And I, you know,

01:26:45.140 I, I don't think that's going to win. Then the other aspect is just, you know, we might, we don't

01:26:50.680 want to underestimate new atheism as I said before, but we don't want to overestimate it as well.

01:26:55.040 So many of the arguments that Dawkins and Harris and, and, and, and company were, are, are, were

01:27:02.600 and are making are not new. They're kind of like retread arguments from all of this withering

01:27:11.320 critique of Christianity that occurred throughout the 19th century and even before. Um, and the idea

01:27:19.040 that, you know, we're just going to forget all of that is also just not very plausible there, there

01:27:26.060 are, you know, there are long-term trends of deconstructing the Bible, Christianity itself,

01:27:35.520 uh, the ideology of the religion that are just not going to go away and are going to have a very

01:27:42.820 deep effect. Now those things can change. Things can be forgotten. Okay. But the idea that

01:27:49.020 we're just going to just, uh, you know, we're going to return to the 1600s, uh, you know, or

01:27:56.720 something, I, it's just, it's just simply not plausible. Yeah, no, I mean, I, I, you know, I think

01:28:03.000 that just, just the things that you and I have seen in the last, uh, five years are just amazing

01:28:09.420 things actually. You know what I mean? Like, uh, because we did, we have seen basically, you know,

01:28:15.500 what we now call the DR, but which is really a kind of, um, uh, is sort of a, uh, I don't know,

01:28:22.620 it's a, it's a corpse of the alt-right, which was, you know, which is effectively that you were like,

01:28:28.780 uh, you know, maybe even a kind of unofficially, but maybe officially the sort of leader of back,

01:28:34.140 back in the day. But this, what we're seeing now though, is, is it basically became a kind of

01:28:39.700 Christian movement largely? Um, uh, you know, it also kind of fragmented into other sort of like

01:28:46.520 odd areas, but I think that the most kind of noticeable and salient trend is that it became

01:28:50.780 Christian. And in some ways it became more politically effective, you know, in the, like

01:28:57.340 with the Fuentes phenomenon and that sort of thing, uh, in less of a kind of intellectual movement,

01:29:02.760 um, but more of a political movement, um, but more Christian definitely became a voting block

01:29:08.620 in a way. Yeah. That's what it became and not an insurgent, um, alternative, right. That was,

01:29:18.060 you know, breaking away and kind of scaring the old conservatives and so on. It became a more extreme

01:29:25.860 version of the conservatives and a, in a kind of voting block. And, and it became a lot like previous

01:29:33.740 Republican voting blocks who also bashed the GOP establishment and conservative

01:29:38.460 ink or whatever they want to call it. And, um, that has its uses and is kind of arguably,

01:29:46.500 uh, more powerful, but it's also yet another dead end. Yeah. Powerful in what direction though is the

01:29:55.840 question, right? Yeah. Where does it ultimately lead? It, it seems like it ultimately leads to more

01:30:00.000 the same as conditions worsen. Um, but, uh, yeah. And one thing that I was thinking about,

01:30:07.600 this is a little bit off the topic though, is that back in the old days, but in 2015

01:30:12.420 in the DR that there, there was this kind of like interesting coalition. There was a kind of

01:30:18.400 intellectual milieu and there was this interesting coalition of people that had different ideas and

01:30:24.760 that were kind of approaching, um, you know, kind of the central question of, let's say, you know,

01:30:30.360 uh, the West, the fate of the West, rather than say the fate of the white race, because I think that

01:30:35.660 there were, I think it was a little broader than that. And it was, maybe that was more of the theme

01:30:39.960 back then. It was the fate of the West. And, um, and, you know, sometimes I wonder like what would

01:30:46.600 occur if Trump didn't happen? I'm sure you, you've thought about this before as well. Like how would

01:30:52.040 that milieu have developed? And in some ways in, I wonder like, is it better that there was just

01:30:59.000 kind of ultimately a kind of just a radical break from that milieu into this? We were suddenly

01:31:04.440 accelerated into this sort of political, uh, milieu, uh, and we were unprepared for it essentially,

01:31:10.900 right? We were still this sort of like chaotic coalition that wasn't really, hadn't really defined

01:31:15.660 itself. Um, but I wonder, I wonder if that was either bad or good ultimately, like in other words,

01:31:23.840 would all, because maybe ultimately all the same divisions would have happened, but they would

01:31:28.640 have just happened over a kind of slower period of time. And maybe they would have happened in a

01:31:33.000 healthier way. And probably that's the case. Like probably it would have been a sort of healthier

01:31:37.280 intellectual development over that, over that period. But sometimes I wonder, it just,

01:31:40.980 it just kind of like, we immediately sort of knew who was on our side and you know what I mean? Like

01:31:46.360 whatever differences, even the smallest differences ultimately became sort of, uh, augmented and in a

01:31:53.440 way it kind of clarified thinking or clarified ideas and positions because yeah. So I, I think we look,

01:32:01.080 it was inevitable in the sense that it happened. Yeah. And I, I think it, it kind of ultimately

01:32:06.920 was good. There, there was a time where everything was working in unison. Um, and that broke down.

01:32:14.860 I think it kind of more coincided with Charlottesville than was caused by Charlottesville.

01:32:19.820 Actually. I think Charlottesville was more kind of a catalyst of that break than a real cause of it.

01:32:24.980 That's, that's the way that it's remembered. It's, Oh yeah, well we, we can't do Charlottesville

01:32:29.260 anymore, but I think there was a, a willingness of a certain segment to criticize Trump, to criticize

01:32:36.920 the typical conservative dynamic. And that is really at odds. It's kind of existentially at odds

01:32:44.360 with the, you know, America first American nationalism. We're a voting block of the Trump

01:32:50.440 movement, MAGA y'all. Those are ultimately opposed and they just had to break away. And so things have

01:32:58.660 become, you know, more divisive, more poisonous, smaller, you know, et cetera. But I, I just,

01:33:05.660 I do think that that break was necessary and is ultimately good because it allows us to go off

01:33:12.720 in a new direction. We're really not connected with them. I mean, there, there's now every day

01:33:18.940 that goes by there's, we have less and less in common with, you know, a kind of pro Trump populism,

01:33:26.680 you know, as each hour goes by, we have less in common with them. And that's just had to happen.

01:33:34.280 And it's ultimately good so that we can go off into a new direction. And if you think we're going

01:33:41.080 off into this horrible direction and you know, whatever, fine. You know, you don't have to join

01:33:46.900 us on this track, but this is where we're going. And, and I, I think it, you can see it as like a

01:33:54.440 tragedy or you can see it as a liberation. And I see it as the latter. Yeah. And it also, because

01:34:00.020 people became, you know, such shitheads basically that we, like, we no longer really have hard

01:34:06.140 feelings about just like kind of more clearly defining our position and just saying, all right,

01:34:09.920 yeah, well actually, you know, Christianity, definitely not the way. Sorry guys. You know what I'm

01:34:14.220 saying? Like, so we can kind of just like not pussyfoot around because they didn't really,

01:34:20.400 they weren't interested in pussyfooting with us, you know, once the sort of the shit hit the fan

01:34:24.640 as it were, it should, it should hit the fan as it were, you know? Um, so we, yeah, it's,

01:34:30.520 I guess it's ultimately a good thing that it was accelerated. Um, all right, let's do that. I think

01:34:38.780 we can put a book market bookmark in it right there. Um, thank you. We had a couple hundred

01:34:44.100 dollars in super chats. Uh, we appreciate that. And, um, I sent you the song. I sent you the

01:34:51.080 song by the way. I didn't know if you want to take us out or whatever. Yeah. Did you send

01:34:54.880 that on the private chat? Yeah. Let me see if I can play this. Um, I will, let me share

01:35:05.100 it. I think there's a ad going on right now. Let's see. Skip ad. I'll share the screen, share

01:35:13.800 the audio. This will take us out. Sometimes when your hopes have all been shattered, there's

01:35:28.040 a good one. It's a good one. You wonder how you keep going. Going. Think of all the things

01:35:39.120 that you really matter. Any chances you would. The fire in your heart is growing. You can

01:35:51.240 fly if you try, leaving the past behind. Leave the past behind. Heaven only knows what you

01:35:59.280 might find. It's kind of an indie track, huh? Yeah. It's a cool song. All right. I'll slowly

01:36:27.280 fade. Um, that's a good, that's a good song. Yes. We can leave the past behind. Kill

01:36:35.660 it. If we have to, we're going to survive. It's not, it's a good, it's not like an ironic

01:36:40.360 song. Like it's really a bad song, but it's a good song. I don't know. I, I, I, it kind

01:36:44.860 of reminds it. There's a lot of kind of eighties, you know, retro going on there. So I, I like

01:36:52.040 it. All right, guys, we'll leave you on that hopeful note. Uh, I will talk to you soon,

01:36:58.020 Mark. Thanks for being on and, uh, see you next Sunday. All right. Bye-bye. Bye.

01:37:03.760 Bye.

01:37:03.820 Bye.

01:37:03.920 Bye.

01:37:03.960 Bye.

01:37:03.980 Bye.

01:37:04.980 Bye.

01:37:05.920 Bye.

01:37:05.980 Bye.

01:37:06.000 Bye.

01:37:06.020 Bye.

01:37:06.060 Bye.

01:37:06.080 Bye.

01:37:06.100 Bye.

RadixJournal - April 25, 2021

LIVE： The Decline of American Christianity

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