00:07:04.200You can even see that, you know, apocalypse.
00:07:06.160we think of the word apocalypse as um doomsday but that's not what it means it means uncovering
00:07:13.160and you can see that in the word calypso covering um it's all yeah i would say that she reads very
00:07:21.440similar to persephone yeah and and she keeps him captive for seven years which is meaningful as
00:07:28.480well because that's the number of saturn but it's it may also be suggestive of months this is i'm
00:07:33.680just spitball in here so it's almost like that's the winter right the months of the year that are
00:07:41.580not fertile and that's when adonis is with persephone maybe that is too specific but i
00:07:48.740would say that the general theme it seems is coming out of the underworld and it does seem
00:07:55.060that there are these kind of allusions maybe to mystery cults going on where he's emerging out
00:08:00.600of the underworld where he visits the underworld and so forth and then he's held captive by a woman
00:08:06.820who i would say is very kind of persephone coded she's a phonic goddess yeah in theory that would
00:08:12.800make penelope something closer to venus penelope's name sometimes is thought to mean duck and this
00:08:21.040was one of the fertility symbols of venus alongside rabbits and doves and so forth
00:08:27.380interesting let me quick we'll we'll start to delve into that a little bit more let me just
00:08:33.080uh finish with the summary um then in book eight um it's very interesting it's it's sort of like
00:08:39.900the olympic games after the death of patroclus in the iliad uh we meet uh queen arete and also
00:08:50.020So Demidakis, who I think I even mentioned this, these few lines when we first started talking about this, but who seems to almost be a portrait of Homer himself. And there's a, I don't know, meta like level going on with the poem.
00:09:11.260this presumably this is a poem meant to be performed um whatever we think about its
00:09:18.460origins in the oral tradition i'm i'm more on the its origins were in the literary tradition
00:09:24.320side of things but it certainly is something that could very well be performed and it would
00:09:30.560have been performed by someone like demodocus who's also depicted as blind there's a tradition
00:09:34.800of homer being blind there's some little places and even in the homeric hems where homer might be
00:09:40.600some figure of homer might be described of sorts we obviously don't know who he is but
00:09:46.020um the this is given a he's given a um uh a a commemorative celebratory uh description he's
00:09:58.340given the choice slice of meat by odysseus uh they play games in their three songs um interestingly
00:10:06.380the final one is um about the trojan war itself and the wooden horse that was given to troy that
00:10:15.100the greeks stashed themselves in and this creates all this weeping and crying by odysseus um the
00:10:24.260story right before that is also very interesting one it's mars and venus uh having an adulterous
00:10:31.360affair and um asbestos is uh understandably uh po'd about this and he creates this net of chains
00:10:41.020to uh weigh them it's like a trap that falls down when they go to his bed um while he's off at
00:10:47.840limnos interesting i mean there's a lot of little tidbits here um uh and uh and and obviously the
00:10:55.380gods are shocked uh poseidon says that you know if if war doesn't pay the the due basically to
00:11:03.700asbestos the uh uh his um civil penalty for being cucked or whatever then i'll pay it and and so
00:11:12.180they they get out of it but um there's also interesting thing in the songs where odysseus
00:11:18.820asks Demodocus to sing of the Trojan War and he sings about the horse. A couple of interesting
00:11:25.920tidbits here. First off, the Trojan horse wasn't narrated in the Iliad. And I mean,
00:11:33.400I don't know if we'll ever know the answer, but it might even arrive from a little bit of a later
00:11:41.180tradition than the Iliad itself. And then that's a tradition that's sort of retconned into the
00:11:47.380Odyssey. I don't know that for sure, but all we do know is that the horse is not mentioned.
00:11:53.840There's another thing that's not mentioned to the Iliad, and I believe it's not mentioned
00:11:57.800anywhere else, where there is this great argument between Achilles and Odysseus. And here we see
00:12:05.300again brains versus brawn. And Agamemnon is very pleased by this argument because he knows that
00:12:12.340this means that we're going to be triumphant as it was foretold by an oracle uh but it's an
00:12:18.460interesting story to tell and again it's not narrated in the iliad um if we do assume that
00:12:24.740the odyssey came after the iliad maybe the iliad is sort of like take kind of retconning you could
00:12:29.580say or kind of embedding other traditions into this bigger story uh it is certainly shocking
00:12:36.380you know if you if you know nothing or next to nothing about the trojan war you know that there
00:12:42.680is a horse and yet the horse doesn't appear at all it's not even mentioned in the iliad um and
00:12:48.160it's only seen in a flashback uh at a story basically in the odyssey but uh anyway there's
00:12:55.120also an interesting um simile going on where odysseus is heartbroken by the stories of the
00:13:04.240Trojan War. It's the essence of bitter sweetness. He is proud about what he did. I think he is
00:13:15.440shell-shocked to some degree. Christopher Nolan emphasized the war veteran quality of Odysseus,
00:13:25.260maybe overemphasized it, but I don't think it's absent in Homer. He's also thinking of
00:13:32.940uh the men he's lost he's hearing about his great triumph but then he feels out of sorts because
00:13:41.160he's nobody at this point he's been trapped for seven years uh what who knows what's going on at
00:13:48.260home who cares about this trojan war business when you've he's lost his own kingdom etc etc and
00:13:54.280he's weeping and uh they say he's weeping like a woman who is fallen upon her dead husband after
00:14:01.960the sack of her city and she's about herself to have spears at her back and to be dragged off as
00:14:08.560a slave or war bride or or whatever might happen to you in those times and um it's it's very
00:14:17.040interesting in the sense that it shows empathy for the trojans who they were the ones who faced
00:14:26.100these types of ordeals they were the defeated ones they were the ones where after the men died
00:14:34.500the women were uh became slaves in effect war brides captives or were just simply killed and
00:14:43.580so sort of like odysseus feels the pain of of troy in an interesting way uh but anyway i think
00:14:51.960that gives everyone a good idea of what's going on in these four books um does anyone want to jump