RadixJournal - August 26, 2026


Odyssey begins!


Episode Stats


Length

13 minutes

Words per minute

145.57

Word count

1,954

Sentence count

44


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 we're sort of going to do a, an introduction today and we can talk about book one.
00:00:07.100 Uh, book one isn't terribly eventful. Uh, you meet Telemachus and, uh, Athena comes down
00:00:17.820 in the guise of Mentis and, uh, they sort of lay out the basic story, the, uh, terrible
00:00:26.700 murder in sparta of agamemnon agamemnon uh by clyde mestre and then his uh uh his revenge by uh
00:00:38.360 that's depicted in the orestia tragic cycle is also narrated there's some interesting things
00:00:44.600 so i thought we would just talk a little bit about that listen to it and um and then we'd
00:00:49.820 talk about nolan but we could talk about nolan first and then go into the interview and if
00:00:56.680 it goes long it goes long or if we don't even get to book one that would be okay by me yeah that's
00:01:03.420 what i was thinking maybe kind of a light class and we talk about the film and kind of ramp into
00:01:07.800 it because i'm sure it won't necessarily be a light class we'll have plenty to discuss all right
00:01:13.260 let's just jump into this so um this is a great line actually from the homeric hymns to
00:01:26.380 apollo uh this is from the first section of this homeric hymns oh lost persons you had a question
00:01:34.660 well just in case you didn't already have this plan maybe for us noobs like historically you
00:01:40.360 could do the setting maybe like just spend a couple minutes on the historical setting that
00:01:44.220 the book was written in that'd be interesting okay thanks yes i was written in the time of
00:01:52.760 jesus christ who was an american uh he uh came to us in kansas actually he he was a space alien
00:02:03.800 who landed among a farm and uh he uh defended the city of metropolis against lex luther
00:02:12.040 i thought it was inspired yeah eighth century bc is is when it was that's what they when they
00:02:18.520 they believe it was written and it's considered one of the oldest alongside the iliad and hesed's
00:02:26.400 work as well um yeah so those are considered the oldest yes which is itself very interesting
00:02:33.460 because it's referring to this vast and intricate cosmology and uh pantheon of gods that presumably
00:02:42.620 were already known for some period of time to the poets, right? For exactly how long is unclear,
00:02:49.840 but we, as early as 1300 BC, we have inscriptions of theonyms and the names. What's interesting is
00:03:00.540 that the names are not necessarily the names you would expect. If memory serves, I don't think
00:03:05.280 Apollo appears among those inscriptions, which is interesting to us, of course. And most salient
00:03:09.980 among those inscriptions is the theonym for poseidon um and they also think that dionyses
00:03:16.580 now there is some with some of these names there's some uncertainty whether or not it's actually the
00:03:21.000 name um but the ones that they feel most confident about or poseidon and then they think dionyses is
00:03:28.420 also there but then there's a long period of time obviously from around 1300 bc to the 8th century
00:03:36.340 So what happens in the interim? There's the Dark Age. There's the Bronze Age collapse, and then there's the Dark Age that follows it. And emerging out of the Dark Age is Homer, right?
00:03:50.000 exactly and also just a couple of things so obviously this is a fiction uh it is a poem
00:04:00.680 it is much like shakespeare placing hamlet in denmark in the middle ages there's no doubt some
00:04:10.640 bits of truth to the to it or uh historicity there's a historical setting uh but to to take
00:04:19.660 it as as fact i i think would be to miss the point entirely so this if it is narrating something
00:04:27.940 it might very well be narrating the sack of troy and anatolia modern-day turkey uh at the end of
00:04:36.640 the bronze age perhaps during the bronze age collapse um the uh they were writing in linear
00:04:43.280 B which is an extremely complicated script uh that was only available to specialists it I don't know
00:04:51.800 it might be like coding and C++ or whatever those things are uh it was it was that difficult and
00:05:00.160 that sort of elitist in the sense of just so few people were able to uh engage with it um after the
00:05:07.800 bronze age collapse you do have a collapse in hygiene literacy infrastructure civilization
00:05:14.180 etc etc and we might even you know underestimate how complicated and advanced say old kingdom
00:05:23.940 egypt really was uh but regardless there was this time there was this creation of a what we call
00:05:32.560 ancient greek which is using a phoenician alphabet so it's usually using the semitic alphabet
00:05:39.600 alpha beta etc um of this these mysterious seafaring people and sort of putting that on to
00:05:48.880 uh the the spoken language of uh of ancient greek and and so you know for for homer the troja war
00:05:58.080 is sort of a distant memory for Plato and others in, you know, the height of what we think of as
00:06:05.320 the height of Greek civilization. It's Homer himself is a bit of a distant memory. And it
00:06:12.660 really took another thousand years, more or less. It was in the 15th century that Homer's Odyssey
00:06:23.200 started to be published in a form that we would recognize today in a codex form. Dante,
00:06:32.120 even though he depicts Homer, but he certainly never read Homer. But later on, we would have
00:06:38.340 the kind of codex printing, what we would understand as a book, and the bringing of
00:06:45.780 Homer into the Western canon. It's been, I guess, a sort of relatively short period of time,
00:06:54.220 remarkably. But I did want to just read this really quickly. This is from the Homeric Hems,
00:07:01.720 which are different than Homer, of course. They're sort of written in his style and his vein,
00:07:08.720 but they might have actually been written over a long period in the millennium before the common era or before Christ.
00:07:21.900 Here we go.
00:07:22.520 I ask you to call me to mind in time to come whenever some man on this earth, a stranger whose suffering never ends, come here and ask.
00:07:32.660 maidens which of the singers a man want to come here is to you the sweetest and in whom do you
00:07:40.220 most delight do tell me in unison that i am he a blind man dwelling on the rocky island
00:07:47.520 of chaos whose songs shall be the best in times to come and i will carry your renown as far as i
00:07:56.120 roam over the lands of men and their cities of fair locations indeed they will not doubt this
00:08:02.580 because it is true and i shall not cease uh to him far shooting apollyon lord of the civil bow
00:08:10.840 silver bow and child of lovely haired leto um this is sometimes often taken as a hat tip
00:08:22.160 a reference to homer himself the blindness this has been a tradition for a very long time
00:08:30.500 Um, the reality is we don't know if Homer was blind. We don't know if Homer existed at all, uh, in the form of a writer like Milton or Shakespeare, uh, et cetera.
00:08:46.560 And there's actually been a lot of interesting commentary of, you know, there's been a kind of documentary hypothesis, I guess you could say, with the Iliad and the Odyssey.
00:09:01.420 Sorry, I'm frozen. There, I'm back. Okay.
00:09:03.340 There's been a kind of documentary hypothesis of the Iliad and the Odyssey, of who wrote these things.
00:09:11.720 Are they a compilation of a number of different sources?
00:09:14.900 there's probably some truth to this there's a more of a kind of romantic notion although it
00:09:21.600 started with uh giambattista vico uh a little bit before the 19th century romantics but there's a
00:09:28.640 sort of romantic notion that you see this as well with like um the ring of the nibelungen you know
00:09:34.600 saga and so on that there was no one author that it was written by the people it was they it was
00:09:41.760 their song that just emerged from them i'm not sure i uh i buy that at all and i'll just speak
00:09:49.740 for myself here because mark might disagree but uh i think that this was written it was probably
00:09:59.320 written to be performed and much like shakespeare wrote an extremely complicated robust poem called
00:10:09.560 hamlet but and it was meant to be performed and when you're watching a production of hamlet you
00:10:16.560 feel like the actors are you know inventing the lines as they go along but it is so robust that
00:10:26.880 i i find it hard to imagine that this just emerged from an oral tradition and that the writing didn't
00:10:34.860 come first but i don't know you might have some refinements there mark yeah i mean obviously
00:10:41.480 there there existed for some period of time an unknown period of time uh sort of the greek
00:10:47.320 cosmology and pantheon as as we as it survived to us right which is demonstrated in um both the
00:10:55.440 and the odyssey um and also um uh he said yes he said obviously does a lot of the work though
00:11:04.020 with the cosmology so that's you know he could be very early and i'm not sure it's known if it's
00:11:10.600 known which is earlier i always have the sense that homer is earliest but i think that they're
00:11:15.060 basically considered to both be eighth century poets in other words we have theonyms we have
00:11:20.600 god names that we feel pretty confident that are uh that um predate uh the iliad uh by
00:11:27.760 600 700 years at least so there existed worship of these gods earlier obviously which we see
00:11:35.200 in the linear b um but what exactly that looked like it's unknown it's just that's why they call
00:11:42.780 it the dark age and there there is no literary tradition that survives what survives in linear
00:11:49.460 b is basically lists indicating cultic worship offerings to gods and that the one what i would
00:11:56.460 say, though, and we say this in the book, is that the story itself of the Iliad may not greatly
00:12:03.000 predate the Iliad itself for the 8th century. And I don't think that there's any reason to believe
00:12:07.680 that it does. Now, again, it could be a memory of the sacking of Troy, which happens around the time
00:12:13.760 of this Bronze Age collapse, right? So going back to 1200, 1300 BC, and so forth, right? And that's
00:12:20.680 generally what people conclude, that it's a reference to the actual Trojan War. And I don't,
00:12:26.060 I have no reason to dispute that.
00:12:28.000 The thesis, which I found very interesting, because it's kind of an unusual thesis, or
00:12:34.000 it's not a common thesis, but the thesis that Nolan puts forth is that they were basically
00:12:39.860 the Sea People.
00:12:41.120 But it's actually in the book as well.
00:12:42.980 So we have that, we reference this thesis in the book as well as a possibility.
00:12:46.900 So in other words, the sacking of Troy may be a reference to Sea People as raiders.
00:12:52.920 And we have our understanding of them as emerging, especially from the Peloponnese.
00:12:57.780 And there's a whole like kind of proto-Jewish cultic tradition there that's very suggestive.
00:13:02.860 And we make that argument.
00:13:04.320 We've made that argument before.
00:13:05.400 We made that argument when we were discussing the Iliads.
00:13:08.040 So it's remarkable that he includes it in his film.
00:13:12.080 He obviously has his own kind of thesis going on as to what the Trojan War represents.
00:13:17.600 And he takes this sort of kind of offbeaten thesis, which I don't know how many scholars actually hold it.
00:13:23.080 But I mean, the thesis makes sense. And it's just a sort of.