Zack Snyder's Man of Steel is the latest film adaptation of the Superman mythos, and it s sure to go down in the history books as one of the most critically acclaimed films of all time. But is it a Christian film? And is it Christian in any way? In this episode of DC Movie News, host John Rocha ( ) and co-host Mark Phillips ( ) discuss the implications of Zack Snyder's Superman character as a Christian icon.
00:00:00.000I don't know the degree to which, at least in terms of emphasis, that original Superman comics and films or cartoons or whatever were based on this notion of Superman as Christ.
00:00:17.640I think that from a kind of Jewish esoteric perspective that they understand, as we've discussed in these podcasts before, they definitely understand Christ as a Jewish figure.
00:00:27.520In a lot of ways, as a very, very Jewish figure, right?
00:00:30.960As a kind of archetypal figure in the way that Moses or David is a archetypal Jew.
00:01:37.920But I, and that's an important similarity.
00:01:41.440But I think that what he's doing is he's just making it more explicit, right?
00:01:47.500So he's making the Christian aspect of it more explicit.
00:01:50.660And I think that, you know, being a Christian, most Christians don't, obviously would not agree with my view, which is kind of a sort of continuation of Nietzsche's view.
00:02:00.280Whereas, you know, there are points in Nietzsche's writing where he describes Christianity as sort of uber-Jewish, right?
00:02:19.600You know, I don't know if I would describe it like that, but it's clearly a kind of, a sort of expression of Judaism and a continuation of Judaism and seeking to fulfill Jewish ends, you know?
00:02:32.580So a Christ figure is also a Jewish figure.
00:02:35.200And so, yeah, but he's making it more obvious.
00:02:41.880And that's probably would be the tendency.
00:02:43.840And I don't even, he might even be thinking that he's even kind of changing the myth, which he is in a way, which he is certainly in a way.
00:02:51.560But he might be even be changing it kind of superficially because his understanding is that Christ is something definitely distinct, do you agree, right?
00:03:43.840So, Mark, before we talk about Man of Steel, directed by Zack Snyder, released in 2013, let's talk about the whole Superman mythos and the genesis of it.
00:04:04.280I actually read an article about Zack Snyder making Man of Steel, and Snyder said that the Superman symbol is the second most recognizable symbol on Earth next to the crucifix.
00:04:22.380And I tried to look up such a study or poll, and I couldn't quite find it.
00:04:28.000But I don't really contradict Zack Snyder.
00:04:32.180I think he's probably correct, maybe followed by the crescent moon of the Muslim world and the Red Cross and maybe a couple of others up there or maybe even Apple computer or something.
00:04:45.400But these are icons of the modern world, and the Superman S is just as much of one as the crucifix.
00:04:58.800I mean, in some ways, these comic books seem to be eclipsing traditional religion and mythos.
00:05:08.600And Zack Snyder is a very sincere director.
00:05:12.300I think you kind of can't understand him if you don't understand that aspect of him.
00:05:17.300And he said that as a way of reverence.
00:05:20.240You know, this is a major burden that I'm bearing in bringing this to the screen.
00:05:27.780But before we talk about Man of Steel and Zack Snyder, let's just talk about what Superman is and who created him.
00:05:40.780So we're going to have to go back to 1938, Joe Schuster living in Toronto, actually.
00:05:51.740And there is this kind of this is the period of the kind of birth of comic books as we know them or do we know them anymore?
00:06:02.200I think comic books is a genre kind of fading, but they, you know, on one level, they're more popular than ever because these Hollywood has become a kind of comic book industry writ large, you could say.
00:06:15.420So there's, you know, pulp novels and illustrated novels and so on with with figures like the shadow obviously has a lot of influence on Batman and so on.
00:06:29.160And Schuster starts to to create this Superman character and he actually originated in this some kind of small little websy, you know, or not websy small little small blog, you know, a small little, you know, magazine of some sort as this telepathic villain.
00:06:54.600He's a blonde, a bald headed villain who's a telepath who's kind of controlling the earth and it's about the reign of the Superman.
00:07:02.920And I think in this way he was probably evoking two things.
00:07:09.960I think with the with the bald head, he might very well have been evoking Mussolini, possibly with just the Superman itself.
00:07:19.740He was evoking Nietzsche and in particular this reception of Nietzsche that came in America in the 20s of in 20s and 30s as Nietzsche as the godfather of Hitler.
00:07:33.040Basically, this crazy Germanic anti-Christian madman who said God is dead and everything is chaos and thought that, you know, you could justify a cause with a good war and all that kind of stuff.
00:07:50.880And he was not he was not translated well and we just didn't have an academic apparatus that was able to receive Nietzsche.
00:08:00.020And so what you got of him were these, you know, cartoonish depictions as a fanatical Nazi.
00:08:07.020Now, obviously, the actual Nietzsche and his relationship with Nazism is very much more complicated than that.
00:08:15.000We don't have to go into it on this podcast.
00:08:17.140We might want to do a podcast on that, to be honest, but we'll save that for later.
00:08:23.060And so but this notion of a Superman was out there and it kind of naturally tends to sound like a comic book or pulp villain.
00:08:32.580You know, this mastermind who's going to control the world like Aaron Stavro Blofeld or these types of figures.
00:08:40.400And then slowly but surely, Schuster started to change Superman into the form that we know today and that would have emerged in action comics in 1938 with this figure wearing a cape with an S on his chest.
00:08:57.120He's actually lifting up a car and, you know, in a way like the Superman, you know, comic book character has changed, of course, and, you know, as he appeared on radio and then TV and and throughout, you know, decades of comic books.
00:09:53.460So yeah, and it's it was clearly a reference to Nietzsche's concept of Superman, and it was from a Jewish perspective.
00:10:02.460And it was kind of I think it was an effort to basically because I mean, you know, again, we Nietzsche's idea of a Superman is a little more complex.
00:10:14.540It's so I mean, on some level, it's it's uncomplex or not complex in the sense that I mean, clearly what he was describing was a Aryan Superman as a or a European Superman at the very least.
00:10:30.500You know, I mean, Aryan might be too strong word from Nietzsche's perspective, but a European Superman and not a Jewish Superman.
00:11:15.480In any case, the creators of Superman were they, you know, the first kind of version, as you've described, was this very primitive comic that describes a villain, actually.
00:11:29.580And that villain is something more that villain is something more akin to how they're imagining Superman.
00:11:36.380But at some point they make they make the decision.
00:11:38.840They make a kind of artistic, creative decision that, like, well, we should basically be depicting a kind of crypto Jew as the Superman or Jews as Superman instead of like, you know, I mean, why do we see that?
00:11:50.640So they made a kind of propagandistic and artistic or creative decision, you know, in an intelligent one, as it would turn out, obviously.
00:12:28.740The main guy or rather he has a secret identity.
00:12:33.340So Superman has a secret identity and his secret identity is Clark Kent.
00:12:38.260And the names, as people know, the names are often chosen very carefully in in Jewish works, especially salient and kind of important and impactful ones.
00:12:49.180And there's no it's no exception here.
00:13:28.980So first off, in saying that Superman is a Jewish figure, that might have been a bit controversial, maybe in the 1950s or something like this.
00:13:41.220At this point, this is totally uncontroversial and mainstream among people looking at the history of comics.
00:13:50.180This isn't something that people will maybe talk about when they're reviewing The Man of Steel or something like that.
00:13:56.840But in academic circles, this is just taken for granted that, you know, you have this amazing burst of creativity at this point.
00:14:09.400The golden age of comics, the 1930s and the creation of all these superheroes that have, you know, kind of stood the test of time and are still extremely popular.
00:14:18.420Maybe even replacing religious figures in terms of iconic images of, you know, woman, Wonder Woman or Superman as this, you know, God among us who's good.
00:14:32.580Batman is a darker, more ambiguous figure as well.
00:14:36.940But, yeah, these are all created by Jews as Jewish myths and they reflect Jewish experience and Jewish personality.
00:14:47.680So that's what we're not just thrusting this upon there.
00:14:51.040Also, there, according to I was just reading up a little bit on Joe Shuster, and he ostensibly claimed that he named Clark Kent after Clark Gable, who, of course, you know, was a famous actor of the time, Gone with the Wind and all that.
00:15:03.240But I would strongly suggest, A, that you don't always believe the cover stories that people tell you.
00:15:12.040You know, Ian Fleming said that James Bond came from a book on birdwatching.
00:15:28.360Well, actually, they did come later, didn't they?
00:15:30.500No, well, there was an earlier Black Panther group that the one that we're familiar with that I think is Oakland based, based out of California.
00:15:40.100There was one in the South that was called the Black Panthers.
00:15:43.240And I think that the Oakland group may have, like, purchased the name or something like that.
00:16:31.820But just quickly, as an aside, one of the, like, sort of, one of the famous comic books in the, or comic books, one of the famous, sort of, it might have been a two, you know, two episode.
00:18:20.900It's right in front of your face and you can't see it.
00:18:24.400But it much like Superman, I think, in some ways.
00:18:27.340I mean, you see sometimes people joke.
00:18:29.100I've seen, someone as a gift one time gave me this, it was like an action figure version of Nietzsche and he was kind of like Superman or something.
00:18:38.680You know, it's like that, this is amusing.
00:18:41.460But yeah, it's like this is a reference to this term that was in the air at the time.
00:18:49.940And as you mentioned before, quite rightly, it was a way of transfiguring it and making it something almost the opposite of what was meant in Nietzsche's works, including Vespos Zarathustra, where that term appears.
00:19:07.100But yeah, so let's, there are a lot of strongly Jewish elements to Superman.
00:19:14.340And there, there's the name, which is Hebraic, Kal-El, his father is Jor-El.
00:19:20.280Do you know what those are references to specifically?
00:20:21.240So, and El Olam is Lord of Time, basically, Lord of Time, Olam, or Lord of the World, I guess it would be another reading of the Hebrew there.
00:20:29.020So we have these names that strongly evoke Hebrew.
00:20:35.920Superman will eventually come to Earth in a Moses basket, effectively.
00:20:41.460He'll be, you know, cast out from a dying Krypton and he'll come to Earth, you know, in these ways that are clearly evoking, you know, biblical myth.
00:20:53.620Now, again, I think a lot of this operates on an unconscious level, you know, I mean, particularly in this day and age where we have, you know, like the personifications of the comic book guy on YouTube who, you know, like it was actually in 1940 Action Comics 17 when he was placed in a spaceship that came to Earth.
00:21:17.880You know, these people kind of obsess about the details in an amusing way about these comics.
00:21:23.960But again, it's all you have to, like, get away from the details and just look at the structure of it.
00:21:30.720It's all Hebraic myths retold in this pulpy fashion that is appealing to kids and will eventually appeal to adults.
00:21:42.140And in fact, adults will buy more comic books than kids eventually, but it is appealing to them on a, you know, childlike level of, you know, wish fulfillment.
00:21:52.120Superman is wish fulfillment, you know, big straw man, strong man who punches everyone and can fly and do anything and can get shot by bullets and they just fall off him, etc.
00:22:03.340It is a way of transmitting Hebraic parables to children at an impressionable age and have those kind of stick in their mind, maybe unconsciously, but still stick in their mind.
00:22:19.740And it is funny that the, you know, the attack on comic books that came in mid-century with the, I'm forgetting his name, it's a name like Werther or Wertham or something, this commission where they were claiming that comic books were about sexual perversion and, you know, they were, you know, promoting deviancy and so on.
00:22:44.600Not completely wrong, you could say, but the most powerful transmission was not, you know, free love.
00:22:54.040The most powerful transmission was the Hebrew Bible.
00:23:04.560So it's not, and this, it's, this is one of the most obvious, you know, if certainly don't bother watching the rest of our, or listening to the rest of our podcast.
00:23:12.280If you can't get over the, you know, Superman is a Jew.
00:23:16.880That's sort of the beginner course, right?
00:23:27.780And it's a weird one because his secret, it's, when you think about who Superman is, I mean, his false identity is Clark Kent.
00:23:36.660Even though it is kind of authentic to him, he doesn't have to like put on heirs to become Clark Kent, but his, his secret identity as, as a nebbish journalist, basically.
00:23:49.260But his real identity is this superhero, a God among us, basically.
00:23:55.140And, um, that also just the fact that those persona were chosen is also interesting, let's say.
00:24:29.760Um, so, you know, this idea that, um, in which makes the metaphor very interesting, of course, because what is being described is that Krypton is dying.
00:24:57.380And you, yeah, it's, it's fascinating that you talk about this because it's, um, you know, what, what is the only thing that can kill Superman?
00:25:05.320Uh, because in some ways they had to come up with some contrivance because this guy is so strong that there needs to be some kind of threat.
00:25:13.800He can't just punch burglars, you know, for all his life.
00:25:17.660And that, that is Kryptonite and it's a piece of his planet.
00:25:21.680So, and, and again, Krypton evokes Krypsis and crypto Jew, you could say it's the, the, the, the way a, a strategy for Jewish survival that was quite successful in Christian periods and, and elsewhere, which is to be a Jew at home while ostensibly converting or being, you know, relatively neutral in society.
00:25:50.320But maintaining this tradition and, and, and the, the technology of the Hebrew Bible.
00:25:56.560Um, and it's interesting again, that he comes from this place that is Krypsis.
00:26:01.800It's almost like it, we can't know what it really is.
00:26:05.840And, um, but in all of these cases, it is dying.
00:26:20.660Uh, and they have to kind of enter the world, which is entering the realm of, of Gentiles.
00:26:26.360But it's also interesting, as you point out, I'll give you total credit for coming up with this again, when you told me this, it was like, you know, oh, well, here we go.
00:26:35.640This is, um, this has been hiding in plain sight all this time.
00:26:39.400Um, it's interesting that it is Krypsis that can attack Superman.
00:26:44.100So when you, and it's a piece of his home world that is dangerous to him.
00:26:49.080And it's almost like if you show him who he really is, that is, that is how you destroy him.
00:26:58.920Well, let me talk a second because that metaphor, uh, developed a little later.
00:27:03.200And I actually think it might've been Bill Finger who authored the first appearance of, uh, Kryptonite.
00:27:09.520Um, but basically what was happening is that, um, and I guess their secretary, uh, you know, who worked in the office pointing it out to, to them.
00:27:16.660Uh, maybe she had a, uh, more, uh, important, uh, title and secretary, but she's credited with basically bugging these guys, uh, you know, the two Jewish creators of it by saying, Hey, well, there's no way to kill him.
00:27:33.460I mean, it's the, the conflict that's inherent in drama is sort of absent with Superman.
00:27:37.720It's actually one of the reasons that I never really liked Superman, because even though there was in the problem with Kryptonite, okay, he has a weakness, but then it's like the same weakness.
00:27:52.940Um, but so, but I think that, um, one way of looking, so the metaphor, so in a way they're developing something that wasn't kind of thought of originally.
00:28:05.280So there might be a kind of imperfectness to it.
00:28:57.820And that allows him to kind of, um, you know, operate in Gentile society, be successful in Gentile society, um, and have this, you know, whatever this sort of, this sort of secret mojo of like being, uh, having a secret identity.
00:29:13.020And whatever kind of additional potency that might give a person, because I think that there probably is something to that.
00:29:26.140Um, so I think that, uh, that metaphor might be a little bit of an imperfect metaphor, but one reading of it is that basically he's being outed as a Jew.
00:30:43.400Uh, and most of them are, are pretty bad.
00:30:45.660Um, but, uh, I've tended, like, I think that my favorite, and I've said this on the podcast before, is it, uh, you know, the 2008 Iron Man, I thought was a pretty funny movie at the time.
00:30:56.660And I thought it just like kind of had the right sort of kinetic, you know, energy was humorous and was kind of cool.
00:31:04.060And, you know, it didn't take itself seriously in a good way.
00:31:28.720Cause I, I think these are the two kind of versions of what big Hollywood can be.
00:31:35.940It's, it's the Marvel Marvel movie where everything is kind of a joke and they'll even wink at the audience, you know, and basically say, I think there was some moment in one of the Avengers films where he was like, I'm just some guy wearing tights, shooting a bow and arrow.
00:31:55.300You know, it's almost like a, allowing the audience to kind of play along in the big joke that the movies are.
00:32:03.000And, you know, Marvel movies are known for their quips, uh, the irony, the kind of silliness, fun, cute characters.
00:32:12.720Uh, and then DC has maybe always kind of gone a different direction, but it definitely went in direction post Nolan of this, you know, grounded, realistic film.
00:32:25.300Where even a figure like, uh, Ra's al Ghul, who is, you know, magical and mythical is kind of brought down to earth and he becomes a, you know, Nietzschean terrorist or something in, in, um, Batman begins and everything is grounded.
00:32:44.560So, you know, Bruce Wayne is a real guy living in modern Gotham.
00:32:49.740He's using technology, but it's, it's a very, you know, real thing.
00:32:55.160The magic, the, the, the camp, the silliness is, is removed.
00:32:59.880Uh, and then Marvel kind of went another direction.
00:33:02.480They, they became wildly successful with this.
00:33:04.920They've sometimes had some, you know, somewhat serious films, but overall the, the, the tone is extremely white.
00:33:15.900Um, he is not really trying to ground the comic book characters in reality.
00:33:24.280Like what would it be, be like to be Batman?
00:33:26.860I mean, Batman's maybe the only one you can do that.
00:33:29.160I think he, on one level wants to create a moving comic book.
00:33:34.060So his, you know, and you can see this from his first, uh, really successful film 300 where, you know, he's doing a faithful rendition of the actual comic book.
00:33:48.200I mean, it wasn't entirely just a reproduction, but it was very faithful.
00:33:52.940And he tried to almost create film as like moving, you know, as opposed to film as like a fly in the wall, looking at realism.
00:34:02.640It was almost like stylized film as almost like living comic book.
00:34:10.420I don't know if I'm finding the right metaphor, but I think you, you know, it's like a, the, the, the image itself, you recognize it as a composed artistic image, almost like a moving painting.
00:34:22.940And he definitely, he did this with 300 with, um, Watchmen.
00:34:28.260Um, you know, there are a lot of realistic elements to, um, man of steel, but he's, there's also many just, you know, painterly elements.
00:34:36.700You could say these images of like Clark or Superman being crushed in this mountain of skulls and his hand coming out and all of these really, you know, stylized composed images.
00:34:48.740Um, he is a, he's a much more visual filmmaker in that sense than Nolan is.
00:34:54.180I mean, Nolan has a visual language, but with Zack Snyder, it is all about that.
00:35:01.160He actually, Zack Snyder actually came from music videos, interestingly, and that might've had an effect on him, but it's just his style.
00:35:09.900And it's also deadly, serious, bombastic, badass, you know, rippling muscles and punching and, you know, all this massive explosions and all destroying buildings and stuff like that.
00:35:25.180I think that turns some people off, uh, but it's, it, it is this kind of serious.
00:35:32.020And, and I think there's also this aspect of Zack Snyder that a lot of leftists pick up on and, and, and they, they're, they've been doing this recently.
00:35:41.380I, I was perusing YouTube, uh, a couple of months ago and I was just searching for Zack Snyder and you get these very, uh, detailed and in many ways, very thoughtful and per persuasive left wing videos on how Zack Snyder is a fascist filmmaker.
00:35:59.860And I don't think they're, I mean, I think they're wrong maybe on some things, but I don't think they're wrong in the general.
00:36:07.120I mean, he is a very sincere, bombastic artist who wants to show gods among men, um, and these, and authority figures, um, in a, uh, a new, a different, a certain type of authority figure in a good light.
00:36:27.480He will actually go after the CIA and, um, Batman v Superman.
00:36:33.300He'll, he'll do little things like that, but he, he wants to show kind of like mythic violence and he invites you to give into it.
00:36:43.440And, um, I, I think that might not be the whole story, but I think that is true.
00:36:47.980I think there, he is a kind of right wing filmmaker as it were much like Christopher Nolan, actually though in a different way.
00:36:54.480Um, and this can be compared to the silly, goofy, multi-culti left wing films of Marvel movies, which of course, all of the millennials just love and which also I should add glorify the CIA, the American government, such as in that film, black Panther, but we don't have to go there.
00:37:17.460Um, but yeah, I mean, I have to, when I first saw a man of steel, I was, I mean, I generally liked it, but, um, I felt that in some ways it was, it was, it was rather loud.
00:37:30.460And, uh, the Christ imagery was kind of maybe too on the nose and there was all, you know, these big punching and throwing people into buildings and explosions.
00:37:44.620I, I just, I got a little exhausted by it when I first saw the movie.
00:37:48.480So I certainly didn't dislike the movie.
00:37:50.480I actually liked it, but it was a bit much.
00:37:53.200You could say, um, I rewatched it a number of times since I first saw it and I have liked it more and more.
00:38:02.560And I've also begun to appreciate Zack Snyder who puts the, this, a kind of detailed attention into every scene, every, almost every scene is evoking something.
00:38:20.660Like when, you know, Superman is literally in a Christ pose in outer space or, um, uh, you know, when, um, Zack Snyder evokes like Stanley Kubrick and Watchmen and those scenes in the nuclear, uh, war room.
00:38:37.460Um, I mean, he, but he's, he's evoking imagery, either themes from the film or iconic American 20th century imagery, almost in every scene and everything is very tightly composed and meaningful.
00:38:53.540And so I think it does pay worth, it pays rewatching these things and kind of catching the reference or looking at some of the layering that he's doing.
00:39:05.200And I've, I, I have to say I've, I've come to a point where I, I not only appreciate men of steel quite a bit, I think it's actually a great film.
00:39:13.580And, um, and we're going to start talking about some of the themes of the film in a bit, but, um, I, I've also just appreciated Zack Snyder as an artist.
00:39:37.300Uh, but he, he has his, you know, limitations, but, but I actually do think he is a great visual artist and, and, and I appreciate him and his films.
00:39:47.460The, uh, the, um, the Christ, uh, you know, that he's a Christ figure is pretty, is pretty evident in the film.
00:39:55.780And yeah, I'm in not even, I mean, it's not even in a bad way.
00:40:01.440I mean, as you, as you, you're just describing, because it's sort of like on some level, it's a bit of a, you know, from a Christian perspective, it's a little bit of a, you know, people describe him as a fascist.
00:40:12.480That's definitely a stretch in my view, but he, he, um, he is sort of trolling Jews to a certain extent because he's taking, you know, not in, I don't even know that all Jews would necessarily object.
00:40:26.600And probably many would not object to his treatment of Superman and, and they'd like his treatment of Superman.
00:40:32.260I mean, obviously the thing was produced in Hollywood and it got the backing of the studios and, you know, so it wasn't, it wasn't that controversial in, in its way.
00:40:41.680Um, but there is, I think that, um, Christians, Christians watching it, who can perceive, uh, this sort of Christ metaphor, which again is pretty blatant, uh, probably take a certain delight and do feel that he's kind of taken, he's taken this Superman character in a way from Jews, right?
00:41:00.720They, they invented a Superman, of course.
00:41:04.020And, and he's, and he's, and he's made him maybe into a more positive figure.
00:41:09.800He's made him effectively into a Christ figure.
00:41:12.780Um, and you can see this, I mean, there is a, and I, and I, some of it could be a kind of subconscious reaction to it, but he does, I've noticed online, he does have this very kind of like devoted, which I think that you're kind of, you might even be sort of part of this, like sort of hardcore, like zeal it.
00:41:28.960I'm the leader of the release of the Snyder Cut movement.
00:41:33.240No, uh, I, I, uh, I know I, I, there is a group.
00:41:47.980I think what's kind of unique about Zack Snyder is that he is so divisive among the audience and critics.
00:41:55.880And so like man of steel had, I mean, whether you want to put any stock in this at all is up to you, but man of steel had a 50% rotten tomatoes score.
00:42:08.280So rotten tomatoes, like aggregates, you know, reviews from means mostly mainstream sources, but also some kind of online vloggy sources.
00:42:17.860And, um, that was from critics or that was from critics.
00:42:23.120Audiences, audience scores are much higher because he gives the audience in a way what they want, just like badass, you know, things exploding and, you know, Superman to these huge muscles and, you know, punching people.
00:42:36.120He gives the audience what they want on some level.
00:42:38.880Uh, but so he's much more popular audiences, but he's very divisive among critics.
00:42:43.720And I think among just people like, you know, the Twitterati you could say.
00:42:48.000And so I don't think Christopher Nolan has these leftist, like communist making you like hour long YouTube videos about why Zack Snyder is evil.
00:43:00.460I don't think Christopher Nolan has such a detraction.
00:43:44.700His grand epic vision was destroyed by the studios.
00:43:49.160And they, and they would do all of these really interesting, like YouTube videos on like looking at what, you know, how Justice League was put into theaters.
00:44:00.060Cause Zack Snyder's, um, adopted daughter committed suicide and he, he, in, in the, the, but at the same time, there's always this pushback against him at the studio.
00:44:09.100And so Zack Snyder kind of basically said no moss at some point, he just couldn't go on.
00:44:14.960Josh Whedon from Marvel came in to finish the project.
00:44:18.180And what he ultimately did was just radically change it.
00:45:50.560Um, but what I, what I would say though, about, um, I mean, I think that some of the criticism of Snyder is deserved as just as a filmmaker, right?
00:46:00.480So I, I, I think that he, um, you know, this, so, and Nolan is guilty of this in ways as well, but he's, he's actually, Nolan is, um, has some scenes in his films that are genuinely like very kind of evocative or emotional and evocative.
00:46:20.400Um, whereas I think that, um, I think that, uh, uh, Snyder is more, he can be a little more mockish as a filmmaker and some of it's a little cornier, um, as compared to a Nolan film.
00:46:34.600So I think that there is a kind of a tonal element that's not as strong, or I find in the Snyder films, whereas I think Nolan, no, Nolan feels like the, it just feels like a more sophisticated presentation.
00:46:47.500And there's, there's kind of more style, I think, to a Nolan film.
00:46:50.840Uh, you say that, uh, visually that I think that, you know, I, I mean, I think both filmmakers are very visually gifted, uh, uh, definitely.
00:46:57.640But, um, so I would say that I think that they, I think he can be criticized from a purely filmmaking perspective.
00:47:03.960Now, I, I think that, I think that there is, I, you know, I would guess that there's also a kind of political or even religio-political dimension to the, uh, sort of hatred of him.
00:47:14.260Because there's a kind of, there's a sense that like, oh, there, here, here we go again.
00:47:20.100He's got this sort of Christian sensibility and, and he's kind of depicting Jews with the bad guys, or he is in this film, uh, uh, to some extent.
00:48:02.740That is what Superman utters while he literally slices through the birthing chambers for kryptonite and ends his own race.
00:48:14.160I mean, you know, when you're watching this film and you're, you're kind of overwhelmed over the visuals and, you know, spaceships crashing through buildings and these amazing fights and so on, you might not see that.
00:48:31.020But if you actually look at, you know, read the script, so to speak, and see what's going on, think about what is, what is the implication of this plot?
00:48:42.640Um, it becomes something very different.
00:48:46.820Um, so do you want to add to that or, or should I kind of jump into the, to the whole plot?
00:48:51.820No, I think it's, I think that's correct.
00:48:56.260And, but there, it's more complex than that, obviously, of course, because as it turns out, he ends up being basically the embodiment of, uh, the krypton.
00:49:05.920He's, he contains the codex within his blood.
00:49:09.460So he is, he's the way of continuing krypton.
00:49:12.640Now, ostensibly though, I don't know if all the, uh, maybe all the krypton, you know, I'm sure there, I'm sure some kryptonites survived because they have to have sequels, of course, but, um, or some kryptonians.
00:49:30.980But, uh, by all appearances of the film, it would seem that they, he basically extinguished the last of the, uh, kryptonians and, um, he, uh, but on the other hand, he contains krypton within his blood and in a, in a kind of very like sort of, uh, emphatic and definitive way, uh, you know, as described in the, as described in the film, he contains basically the essence of krypton, the krypton races in him.
00:49:59.980He, he, he, he, he is the embodiment of what they call the codex, right?
00:50:04.860Which becomes their, I mean, you, you probably can get into the description, but that's, this is the way that this race is effectively bred is through this codex.
00:50:13.480And, uh, and he's the embodiment of that codex, um, as described in the film, but, but, uh, ostensibly though, he would have to breed with humans, right?
00:50:34.040So the, the, the, the, the film opens in, uh, in a, in a 20 minute kind of prelude that takes place on krypton.
00:50:45.920And, uh, it's interesting because I, um, I actually saw some of these, um, Superman, the, the Richard Donner Superman movies when I was a child.
00:50:58.440I don't quite know how I saw them because the first one came out in 1978, I believe.
00:51:08.120Uh, but I, you know, back in the late seventies and early eighties before VHS, they were replaying movies more often at theaters.
00:51:16.360And, uh, so I, I remember seeing like, um, the empire strikes back at the theater in the eighties when it would come back and be replayed.
00:51:27.540So I think that's probably how I saw it, but, uh, and then I probably watched it on VHS or saw it on television or something in the late eighties when I was like 10.
00:51:37.960Uh, but it left an impression and that impression was ice and this ice world of krypton.
00:51:43.720And, and, uh, you know, I think Snyder and his writers, so when they wanted to do something different, so they created a, a kind of more organic world, but it's a kind of avatar like world with all these creatures and so on.
00:51:56.300And, um, but also I, I, I don't, again, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say it's a Hebraic world.
00:52:04.940You have the writing that is present in particular, uh, seems to evoke that in some way.
00:52:13.280And, um, the, just the, the kind of council of elders that Jor-El is speaking before also evokes that.
00:52:23.200Um, you know, it's not hard and fast, but I, I don't think I'm wrong, uh, on that.
00:52:28.840And, um, so the whole problem that is going on is, is kind of, it's, it's twofold and you actually see the, the problem, the drama of the film in the first five minutes.
00:52:42.900So basically Krypton's core is collapsing and Jor-El is giving this news to the council of elders and just saying, everyone here is already dead, but I need control of the codex and I can save our race.
00:53:00.860So the, the, the, the fundamental issue of the film is whether the Kryptonians can save their race.
00:53:10.000I mean, it is an existential racialist film from its opening moments.
00:53:15.620Then you have a parallel figure to Jor-El, which is general Zod, and he actually has the same exact motivation.
00:53:24.800And he is, you know, he can tell, you know, again, we don't know what exactly is going on, but we can kind of sense that there's some looming catastrophe.
00:53:33.940And Jor, and Zod also sees that things are collapsing, that the society is breaking down.
00:53:40.860And so it's time for a coup d'etat and just a takeover.
00:53:44.740He, you know, kills some council members, dissolves the council and is, is engaging in a coup.
00:53:53.480And it's, you know, Zod asked him to join him and it's kind of like, we're not opposed.
00:53:59.240We are both, we both see that, that our society is dying and that the politicians are useless and we need to do something.
00:54:08.040And they kind of have two different ways of doing something.
00:54:11.580And then I think Superman will have a third way, which is very different than what his father is suggesting.
00:54:16.540And it's, it's obviously different than what Zod wants to accomplish.
00:54:20.320Um, and so Zod attempts to take over and, um, Jor-El's opposition seems to be kind of ethical, democratic, you know, you're, you've taken up the sword against your own people, blah, blah, blah.
00:54:34.700But he seems to, there seems to be some fascination with birth in the sense that, you know, Krypton is this rigid society where every single member is bred to be something.
00:54:51.680So everyone is bred to an occupation effectively.
00:54:57.780Jor-El was bred to be a great scientist and so on.
00:55:01.280And, and that they've, they've reached some point of rigidity and, and in some ways, the, the rigidity of the class structure and genetic structure is, is the cause or the ultimate background of its collapse.
00:55:15.600Um, and so Jor-El also wants to break out of this, but he sees Zod as a problem because, you know, you want to choose the bloodlines and Zod is saying, we're going to sever the degenerate bloodlines that brought us to this place.
00:55:28.280And Jor-El wants a, a, a different path, which is a, a, a free birth that is a natural birth of a child.
00:55:37.980And they also, because their planet is collapsing, they also are going to send this child off that they're going to implant the codex.
00:55:48.060So Jor-El wants to get a hold of the codex codex and, and, and by whatever means necessary, ultimately, and implant it in this child and send it off to another world, much like a message in a bottle.
00:56:03.020So the whole, again, just to reiterate that the conflict of the story is how the Jews, the Jewish race will survive the Krypton race, you know, they're Jews.
00:56:20.740The one is the harsh kind of nationalistic, hard path of Zod, uh, which will ultimately entail just, you know, conquering earth and destroying the people on it.
00:56:35.340And the other path is through this child who will embody the best of both worlds.
00:56:42.460You could say he, he's a child that will be apart from Zod, apart from the old world, and he will be given to another race and as a gift.
00:56:56.360And so there, there's a definite, and I, and I think for Zack Snyder, this is all but explicit in the way that he films the text.
00:57:04.200And I think it was absolutely central to the way that he was conceiving it.
00:57:08.900Uh, but it is the old Testament and the new, it is the old Testament of law and rigidity, that old world and the new of bequeathing the, the essence of this incarnate essence.
00:57:24.780In fact, um, incarnate, it's the word made flesh.
00:57:52.460It, it, it, you know, one, I don't know if it's kind of inconsistency in the film, but so what is being depicted in this sort of, um, these breeding pods, right?
00:58:01.900So, uh, you know, uh, whoever has seen the film knows what I'm describing, but, uh, to those who have not yet seen the film, um, you know, essentially there's all these, these pods that are kind of similar to matrix.
00:58:12.920If you've seen the film and there's, except that they're, they contain fetuses, people that are not born yet.
00:58:17.900And there's these kinds of trees that contain these pods and they're being bred artificially in these artificial wombs as opposed to people having, you know, natural births.
00:58:27.900And, um, but it, what's, what is described in the film is a tri, uh, tripartite, um, class system effectively of, uh, basically priests, spiritual leaders, warriors, and laborers.
00:58:42.360That's how it's described in the film.
00:58:43.860Um, which is interesting because Jews don't necessarily contain that, uh, that structure within them.
00:58:49.920So that, yeah, so that might be a kind of, yeah, I mean, I think, I think that there are, I think it's more, um, I mean, you have religious classes of Jews and you have effectively, you know, secular Jews.
00:59:02.660So I think that there is a kind of within Judaism, there is a kind of like laity, but there is in a way, it's sort of kind of, it's one of the strengths of Jews is that they are in a sense, kind of a more democratic, uh, there is a kind of more democratic structure to Jews,
00:59:17.900or there is a more sort of ambiguous sense of hierarchy among Jews.
00:59:22.460I mean, there, there is obviously a kind of religious hierarchy with rabbis and this sort of thing, but, um, it's not, it's not a sort of, uh, it's not what we imagined that kind of, you know, or what people in the, uh, um, dissident right often kind of fantasize or alt-right or whatever we're calling it.
00:59:40.640They fantasize the, um, of a, uh, this sort of, this three tiered structure with like these priests, and then you have the warrior class and then you have the labors, um, you know, to the extent that that ever existed in a kind of like perfect way, um, you know, is, might be dubious, but, uh, it, that is not what's, what Judaism really resembles.
00:59:59.640Judaism is kind of more complex and fluid and, and interesting in a lot of ways, you know what I mean?
01:00:05.440Well, it's a priestly class, but it's in many ways, a slave class.
01:00:10.300I mean, uh, the people of Exodus and they, they might very well have existed.
01:00:16.140There might've been an actual people, uh, that were, became known as the Hebrews in ancient Egypt, um, at the end of the bronze age.
01:00:32.440So, I mean, actually what you could say is that you could say the ancient Israelites did contain a warrior class, which I think is the case, right?
01:00:40.280Um, so you could say that, um, it's the Hyksos that they were, they were often related to the Hyksos in ancient Egypt.
01:00:48.440It was a Hypu, I believe is, well, yeah, we don't have to get lost on these.
01:00:53.120It's the, yeah, I think it's, um, I'll look it up well, but, and we'll come back to it and I'll, I'll just let people know.
01:01:00.340But, uh, I, I think it's the Hyksos, um, maybe that's not the correct pronunciation, but I'll, you'll get the correct pronunciation later.
01:01:08.560Um, but effectively, you know, there was, um, a tribe that is often identified with the ancient Israelites and, you know, reading the Hebrew Bible, it's clear that there are, there are different tribes.
01:01:20.900And one of the tribes is Judah, right?
01:01:23.500Uh, and one of the, and so there were other tribes and we can imagine that, you know, that they are effectively serving different functions.
01:01:30.260And, um, you know, one of the ideas is that Yahweh, who I argue basically represents Jewry or the tribe of Judah.
01:01:36.960And there's sort of etymological reasons and there's clues in the Hebrew Bible why you would believe that, but effectively Yahweh and Judah, Yahweh becomes a symbol of Judah, I argue, or the tribe of Judah.
01:01:47.860Um, and, but Yahweh is also known as the Lord of hosts, right?
01:01:54.640So the, the idea is that he's ruling over a host, um, and the word for host in the Hebrew is also an army, right?
01:02:02.800So you could understand him as kind of ruling over warriors or like a sort of janissary class even in, and he, Yahweh represents something more priestly, something that's directing the tribe, right?
01:02:15.260So you could argue that in that way, you could argue that there are, at least among the ancient Israelites, you do have a kind of structure, you have a ranking.
01:02:24.720I mean, clearly Judah ranks above the other tribes.
01:02:30.360Um, in any case, so, and I think there is actually one theory that that's effectively happened.
01:02:35.120That's what happened to Jews is that they were conquered, right?
01:02:38.080So this whole idea of this, the lost tribes, right?
01:02:41.380And, um, in, you know, uh, the, uh, British Israelites, which is a kind of, uh, sect of Christianity, believe themselves to be descendant of like the lost tribes, the lost, these 10 lost tribes, um, when ancient, when the ancient kingdom of Israel was destroyed.
01:03:00.700Um, so there is a theory that the Jews basically represent a group that's been a sort of head that's been severed from its body, right?
01:03:10.020And I, and I think that's, that's actually a kind of idea that, um, Nietzsche even entertains.
01:03:15.940So there is an idea that they represent a kind of priestly class that's been separated from its sort of body, its normal body.
01:03:23.300And, and as a consequence, they've become, you know, they've become, you know, people who are effectively guests among hosts in other lands, right?
01:03:32.880Um, as this priestly class, it operates in a different way that operates through religion, through a kind of sorcery or through culture, right?
01:03:41.280As opposed to, um, uh, in the more, you could argue the more direct ways in which Arians interact and often the more kind of warrior like ways in which Arians interact.
01:03:51.180All right. But in any case, I think we're, we're off the topic. Uh, but that's kind of a minor point, you know, so, you know, that's a minor point in the film.
01:03:59.080Well, okay. Just to go back to this. I mean, I think it's, it's kind of fascinating because in some ways Zod is imaged as this Aryan badass and the fact that they have a tripartite structure and so on is, is interesting.
01:04:14.780But then there's other ways of the warrior class. It was at the end. He's a general, he's general. Yeah. So he's of the warrior class. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think Zod just means God? That's how we're supposed to read it? Or is that, do you think that's a reference to something?
01:04:27.300I, yeah, I was, I was like, I was snooping around before the podcast to try and figure that out. I, I, I basically came up with zero. Like I don't have a strong, there is, uh, uh, yeah, I think there's a Hebrew word that means Zed or say, you know, like, so the, the thing with Hebrew is,
01:04:44.780uh, uh, the same word can be given a different vowel, right? Because Hebrew doesn't have vowels. So it can be given a different vocalization and essentially be the same word. Uh, uh, but I will, uh, let's come back to that though. I'll look at it.
01:04:59.100Okay. Well, it's, it's not, it doesn't matter that much. It might mean like council or like, it might even mean like secret, um, some secret or council or something like that. We'll come back to it.
01:05:09.780At least in English, it reminds you of God. So you sure would it make of that?
01:05:15.720Reminds you of Zog. Zog as well. Yes. The, uh, that, um, I don't know what you're talking about. It is. Do people use that term on Twitter? I've never seen. Um, but, uh,
01:05:27.780I have actually forgotten what the meaning of Zog is. I don't know what you're talking about either.
01:05:32.740You don't know what you're talking about. I think it's a, I think it's a meme of some time. Yeah.
01:05:38.140These kids use these things. I, I'm too old to even recognize it, but yeah.
01:05:43.280So like, it's one of those memes, right? Like, which I think means laugh out. Like some light loud.
01:05:51.120Right. So Zog is similar. It's, you know, yes. Yeah.
01:05:55.360Yeah. I wonder what, yeah. Um, but, uh, so he is this badass, but, and so he, he kind of resonates with
01:06:05.480Arianism, but I, I think also it, and maybe this is a bit of a forced reading, but you could kind of
01:06:12.120read it as also Jewish, particularly in the kinds of things that he says. So, um, the, the problem with
01:06:20.280Krypton is that the core is collapsing and you could almost imagine like, I, I don't know,
01:06:27.700some Bibi Netanyahu type raging about the end of the American empire in like 2070 or whatever.
01:06:34.120It's like the core has collapsed, you know, in the sense of like the core people of America that
01:06:40.620keeps this thing going has collapsed. Now, maybe that's a bit of a forced reading of my own take
01:06:45.700on it. Uh, that, that would be fine. Uh, but there, there's at the very least, you can say that
01:06:52.040it's this, you know, it's a decaying society and it evokes more of a kind of Aryan society than it does,
01:07:00.720um, a, a Jewish one. Uh, but so, so that's the, the, the central conflict. And then,
01:07:10.900you know, Superman is sent to earth. He, as we know, he winds up on camp in Kansas and, um, his
01:07:19.220crash landing is, is not shown on screen in this film. It's famously shown in the
01:07:25.820Christopher Reeve version. Um, and he is raised by Martha and Clark Kent. And I would say it's,
01:07:36.660it's very clear that these are Gentile figures and they are, um, I think also they're shown a great
01:07:44.580deal of sympathy. And I think also kind of sophistication in, in, in the context of who
01:07:53.480they are. I mean, uh, Jonathan Kent is a farmer from Kansas. He is not an, an erudite person,
01:08:00.620but he's also someone who actually is deep and complicated and has a very strong moral sense.
01:08:07.860And so does Martha also not, not only being a good and loving parent, but is also someone who is
01:08:13.760moral and, and sophisticated in, in, in her context. I think Snyder treats them in a very sincere way.
01:08:23.400Um, and Jonathan Kent's real issue is, you know, are, what will the world, you know, how will the
01:08:33.100world accept you? And also in a way, who will you be? So there's a, there's a scene where, um, the
01:08:40.840young Clark Kent is being bullied. Um, you know, uh, they're not on a playground. They're, they're
01:08:48.160somewhere else. He's, he's being bullied by these guys. He's actually reading, he's reading a
01:08:53.280copy of Plato's Republic, uh, while doing that. I don't know if you caught that, uh, but make of
01:08:58.900that what you will. Uh, but so he's reading Plato getting bullied and, you know, and he doesn't
01:09:05.220fight back and he kind of resisted. And actually one of his older bullies who, you know, used to be
01:09:11.340a jerk to him, but actually Clark saved, he rescued when a school bus crashed into a river, he became
01:09:17.340Clark's pal and kind of like the, the good earthling, you could say who, who Clark sees in
01:09:24.620him, what all earthlings can be. And Jonathan Kent comes up to him. He says, you know, whether
01:09:30.080you're good or bad, you're going to change the world. And so it's a, it's a kind of twofold
01:09:35.000thing. It's how would the world react to a superhero, but then which, which Perry White,
01:09:43.160the, um, the editor of the daily planet says that played by Lawrence Fishburne, you know,
01:09:48.240how people would lose their mind if they knew that someone like that is out there. He says
01:09:51.780something to that effect. Jonathan Kent is like, you know, who are you going to be Clark? Are you
01:09:57.020going to be a good person, a moral person when you reveal yourself and effectively, you know,
01:10:06.240change everyone's notion of what it means to be human and what it means to be moral. And in some
01:10:12.600ways, take over the world, whether by force, which Superman could do if he wanted to, um, or as a,
01:10:23.080a moral exemplar. And, um, so it's Jonathan and Jor-El, both of Clark's, um, father figures or,
01:10:33.140or literal fathers are, are similar or, are, are, are parallel and actually very, very similar as well
01:10:39.960in the sense that they want him to embody someone. And they both understand that he has kind of,
01:10:46.520he's part of two realms, the, the old Testament and the new Testament as it were. So in, in a very,
01:10:52.500I, I, I thought very moving scene where the young boy, um, Clark learns that he's an alien and he came
01:11:00.120from somewhere else. Um, you know, you know, he says something like, you know, well then, you know,
01:11:06.240you're, you're not my dad. And, and, and, and Jonathan says, no, no, I, you are my son and so on.
01:11:11.600And he, he, he does love him. And, but he says, you also have a father by another name. And I think
01:11:19.020that the, and, and Jor-El says, you know, you're, you can embody the best of both worlds. So I think
01:11:25.060both of these father figures are leading Clark into a Jesus-like position of connecting the old
01:11:36.060and new Testament, connecting the Jewish world with the Gentiles, connecting Krypton with earth.
01:11:43.560Yeah, no, I think that's, that's absolutely the correct reading. So when he says that, you know,
01:11:48.620you, the father, uh, his real father, um, says, you know, you're a bridge, you can be a bridge between
01:11:54.700two peoples. He's describing a bridge effectively between Jews and Gentiles, which is, which is
01:12:01.600remarkable when you think about it, because in the film, the metaphor for Jews, and this is a film
01:12:07.740being made by a Gentile, they're super, they're literally supermen. So Jews are understood as
01:12:12.460supermen, but he's building a bridge between these supermen and ostensibly these unsuper Gentiles,
01:12:20.420inferior Gentiles effectively. Right. Um, so that itself, you know, and I don't even know if that's
01:12:28.500something that, um, I don't even know if that's something a guy like, um, um, Snyder would spend
01:12:38.200much time thinking about, but there is a kind of very insulting, you could argue insulting and maybe
01:12:44.000insulting is a kind of, uh, yeah, maybe it's the correct word, but there's a kind of insulting
01:12:49.060positioning to that is that they are the supermen and we were, you know, Jews are basically represent
01:12:57.780a kind of superior race capable of creating a, you know, a savior, for example. Um, but also capable
01:13:04.960of just dominating us generally, right. As, as it's depicting the, as it's depicted in the film. Uh,
01:13:11.300now if, if sort of the evidence of how Western civilization has gone recently, it's, it's, it's actually
01:13:18.140kind of hard to dispute the, uh, the sort of truthfulness of that metaphor or the sort of the
01:13:23.100reality of that metaphor. I mean, it is kind of, in some ways there is, there is some kind of painful
01:13:27.780truth, uh, involved in that, but, uh, he, but what he, but the film in that way becomes kind of, uh,
01:13:35.320a form of moralization for Jews, you could argue. Right. Um, and you know, and, and, and, and in a way,
01:13:44.300and I don't think, because I think it's Snyder, of course, understands these things differently than,
01:13:48.200than Jews do. And I think that his perspective becomes one, basically it's, it's, um, Christ
01:13:55.100against the Pharisees, right? Now in the word Pharisee itself, um, means like separated ones.
01:14:02.180That's effectively what's being described, that they're separate from, um, uh, they're, they're tribal
01:14:08.020effectively. Right. And the dispute there is one between, uh, tribalism effectively, racism,
01:14:14.420as it were Jews that don't want to, you know, become part of a faith that includes Gentiles,
01:14:20.700which is what Christ wants. Christ wants to expand the franchise and mix basically with Gentiles
01:14:26.640ultimately. Yeah. Right. So it is, it is basically a conflict between, uh, Magneto, right. And
01:14:34.180Professor X or a conflict between, and this is the, uh, comparison that Stan Lee made himself,
01:14:40.440a conflict between Malcolm X, uh, you know, when he was a separatist and, uh, uh, MLK between, um,
01:14:49.880uh, Martin Luther King. Right. So that's the conflict and what in Christ represents something
01:14:55.020similar. He represents the Martin Luther King, the one that wants to integrate, who wants to,
01:14:59.680and mix. Right. And, you know, the irony of course in, is that I think that, and this is a very kind
01:15:07.960of Christian view is that, you know, in a way the Christian is in a, in a, it doesn't work out this
01:15:15.160way in, in, in Christianity sort of has this design. It doesn't sort of allow it to happen,
01:15:20.060but there is this kind of fantasy and, you know, this is a sort of fantasy that Christians have,
01:15:24.760like a guy like Jay Dyer, for example, would have is that all the Jews would one day convert. This is
01:15:30.720a sort of, this is the, the prophecy would all become, um, Christians, right. And therefore would
01:15:37.420be sort of admixed and integrated into the Gentile body. And that would be sort of the answer to the
01:15:44.160JQ as it were, right. Or that would be the solution to the JQ is that they would become part of the Gentile
01:15:50.840body. And, you know, their numbers are, are, are relatively insignificant. So that if that were
01:15:57.900to occur, if they were essentially to become all Christians, then they would, they would effectively
01:16:02.960disappear as a people. Right. Um, now they, they wouldn't ultimately, because the whole mythos of
01:16:09.680Christianity depends on the existence of Jews. The whole, I mean, Christianity itself becomes
01:16:15.200incoherent without Jews, without Jews, Christianity doesn't even make sense. There, there, there sort
01:16:21.240of has to be Jews for Christianity to exist. Right. Um, I mean, Christ himself is a Jew, right? So
01:16:29.880something, so for Christ to exist, there has to be Jews, right? Yeah. There has to be something
01:16:35.680called Jews and, and, you know, in Christianity, uh, has not, Christianity has not been effective in
01:16:42.600converting Jews. Right. And I don't think that ultimately that was not the design of Christianity.
01:16:47.360Christianity is designed in this sort of Caducean way where Jews can be Jews or they can convert to
01:16:54.120Christianity. They can do one or the other. And when things get a little hot for Jews, for example,
01:16:59.180in Europe, they can become crypto Jews or, you know, they can become Christians that are crypto Jews and can
01:17:04.780ostensibly convert into Judaism or they can remain outside of Christianity. You know, this is, this is
01:17:11.360allowed by Christianity. Christianity is, it's, it's a, it's an act of free will. It's an act of choice
01:17:18.000to come to Christ, to come to God, to believe in Jesus, to accept Jesus as your savior. That's always
01:17:23.560been the case. Right. Um, I mean, obviously there have been violent conversions in the past, but
01:17:29.040mostly the history shows in Europe, uh, with Christians and Jews, the Jews have been
01:17:34.700allowed to have a kind of existence, uh, among, uh, in serving a kind of function and role in,
01:17:41.500you know, medieval Europe, for example, among Christians where they're handling the money,
01:17:45.920they're doing the stuff that's ostensibly undesirable for Christians to be doing. Um,
01:17:50.540and so Christianity ultimately doesn't, uh, solve the JQ, the JQ in the way, um, guys like Snyder
01:18:01.440appear to be imagining. Right. And it doesn't really have that design. Christianity is an act. You
01:18:06.740can't, you, you, you know, you know, that's Christianity is not about, for example, the violent
01:18:14.500conversion of Jews. And I think it doesn't solve it in the way that delusional people like Jay
01:18:21.580Dyer or E. Michael Jones thinks it's going to solve the Jewish question. And we're just going
01:18:26.500to convert them all and they'll all just change through Christ or something. I mean, I think it
01:18:31.040doesn't, I'm not sure that's quite what Snyder is suggesting. Um, I, I think there, you know, as I
01:18:37.500mentioned earlier, there, there is an element to this that is, you know, if you, if you accept that,
01:18:44.380you know, Superman is a Jew, which is not controversial at this point, and he is destroying
01:18:50.940Krypton saying that Krypton had its chance, it's over now. I'm going to genocide all these, you know,
01:18:58.240Kryptonian test tube babies in your scout ship. And Zod is, is understandably horrified by this notion,
01:19:05.680you know, no. Um, then you could say that it's antisemitic, but I think again, why the film is
01:19:12.700effective and why it resonates is that he's not really doing that, that he is embodying Jewry in
01:19:21.540the sense that the codex, the entire Jewish lineage is embedded in his individual cells. And he is now
01:19:31.800going to be a God on earth, maybe a God that has, there, there's some atheists to this God,
01:19:38.120as you'll, as we'll see in, in Batman v Superman, there's kind of some anti Christ, uh, people out
01:19:45.500there, but you know, we, we watching this film, we kind of eventually know that he's going to be the
01:19:51.740Superman who is the super, you know, who is Superman, who was a God among us. And the, the way he
01:19:58.260ultimately becomes God, there are all these scenes in the film of him kind of being born. I mean,
01:20:03.780the, the opening scene has no dialogue. It's, it's just of him being born of, of, of, you know,
01:20:10.900there with Jor-El and his, his mother. Um, and then there are these other scenes of him kind of dying
01:20:18.080and, and coming back again, um, where he'll, you know, he, he goes down to, I guess like Southern
01:20:25.020India or something where he's fighting the other world engine that's going to create, you know, turn
01:20:31.040earth into Krypton. And he's being chased by all these, you know, kind of horrifying tentacles and
01:20:37.060things like that. And then he's, he's laid low. And, um, then he just gained, he generates all of
01:20:45.220this power and there, there's a clear just crucifix on the screen, um, when he is doing that of this
01:20:52.480light beam coming from above and this kind of like explosion or waves going horizontally.
01:20:58.980And then he fires himself up into this thing and is, is kind of born again. Then it happens again
01:21:06.640when, um, he, um, attacks Zod's ship and, um, he kind of, there's almost a scene that resembles,
01:21:15.380um, Christ exiting the cave where there's been this terrible crash and Superman kind of gets up
01:21:22.500and pushes aside this, you know, rolls aside this, this door and he's back. It's very evocative of
01:21:30.120him as Christ, um, rising. Uh, and then I, I think the, the ultimate, you know, ending of this,
01:21:38.280and I, and I'm, I'm relying to a degree in a very, uh, thoughtful video that I watched. Uh,
01:21:43.480I think it's called a thesis on man of steel. Um, I'll link to it. It's, um, these guys,
01:21:48.720this guy who does very thoughtful video essays. Um, and he did one on man of steel and it was very
01:21:54.060good, but the, the ultimate birth of Superman is him killing Zod and then letting out a scream
01:22:00.480very much like he let out a scream when he was in a baby and he is being born into Superman,
01:22:07.860but that does entail kind of ending the old Testament, at least the old Testament as it was
01:22:15.060just severing the old world killing. Um, and then kind of rising as the embodiment of Krypton on earth
01:22:27.080as a God, as Superman, finally, not just this kind of wandering Gentile who might randomly save people
01:22:35.200as he was doing in adolescence, uh, you know, never holding down a job, but you know, some
01:22:41.280hotspot crops up and he goes and saves it, but he, he finally becomes Superman by, by again,
01:22:48.520killing the old Testament, but then ultimately fulfilling it at the same time. And this kind of
01:22:54.400Hegelian synthesis, you could say, I'll pay boom. I don't mean to be too pretentious here, but
01:22:59.080that, that, that is what he is accomplishing and, and for, you know, Christianity as the ultimate
01:23:05.260fulfillment of Judaism as Nietzsche conceived it as well.
01:23:11.340Yeah. Uh, anyways, so I think I was being a little inarticulate before, but I'll, so I'll go back to
01:23:18.640the point, the reason, because obviously there have been forced conversions with the inquisition,
01:23:23.100uh, for Christianity, but the, you know, but really it kind of doesn't matter because that,
01:23:30.240you know, Jews operate in Krypsis. So even if a Jew is a Christian, he remains a Jew, right? Or he has,
01:23:36.500he has the choice of remaining a Jew. So it doesn't, you know, it doesn't really solve the,
01:23:41.480the JQ as it were in the way that Christians fantasize. And the truth is he has, he's given
01:23:47.200advantages for remaining a Jew. He's incentivized to remain a Jew. There's incentives to remain a Jew.
01:23:52.860You know, there, they are a successful, cohesive people. Um, so why wouldn't he remain a Jew? Even
01:24:00.340if he is, even if he is forced through a period of persecution to pretend that he's not a Jew,
01:24:06.120right? So this is how Christianity ultimately fails. And, and, you know, I think that, um,
01:24:12.900so I do think that that, I do think in my reading of the film is that this is, this may be kind of
01:24:19.160part of the fantasy of what Snyder is going for is the idea that Judaism can be sort of folded into
01:24:25.400Christianity, right? Folded into the body of literally into the body of Christ, right? Um,
01:24:31.720which would be, um, um, Superman. I mean, and there are also, you know, in,
01:24:38.560and the idea that he, that he represents effectively, uh, the, the word made flesh
01:24:45.360is made very clear in the language of the film as well, in the sense that, uh, the word codex
01:24:50.580can be a reference to, like you look in the dictionary, it can be a reference to the scripture
01:24:55.400specifically, right? So, um, so that word codex is chosen in a very kind of, um, you know,
01:25:02.360at the very least code, which is language or logos. Well, the first definition of it is
01:25:07.840an ancient manuscript, right? Yeah. And like the second definition is specifically of the scriptures,
01:25:12.600right? Yeah. Um, so, uh, the other thing, and I wanted to circle back to, as I promised I would,
01:25:18.360so I was completely wrong about the Zod thing. I was thinking of a different word. I was thinking of
01:25:22.860Zod. Um, again, the pronunciation might be incorrect, but the, um, Zod though, in, I think that I have
01:25:31.440found a word that might be the one, the word that was being used, assuming that was a different
01:25:35.660Jewish writer that created Zod. Um, but it seems likely since Hebrew was used, um, in the, with the
01:25:44.440earlier characters from, uh, Krypton that he would also be naming him, uh, through Hebrew. So it seems
01:25:49.800likely that the word is also Hebrew. Um, I, the phonetic spelling is, uh, for this word I'm thinking
01:25:55.940of is Zod. So it's very close. Um, it's the transliteration is Zod or Zid. Um, but again,
01:26:04.220you know, it could easily be, you know, there's no vowel, so it could easily be Zod. Um, but this